CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
HUNTER, MAYOR. FIFTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—An obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, February 23rd, 1852.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Ald. FAREBROTHER; Sir JOHN MUSGROVE, Bart., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; Sir ROBERT WALTER CARDEN, Knt., Ald.; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
GUILTY .*†Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
GUILTY .* Aged 17.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY .** Aged 17.— Transported for Seven Years.
NEW COURT.—Monday, February 23rd, 1852.
PRESENT—Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; Mr. COMMON SERJEANT; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Four Months.
281. ABRAHAM PAUL , feloniously breaking and entering the warehouse of John Davis, and stealing 2 inkstands, and other articles, value 12s.; his property; having been before convicted: to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years.
MR. CAARTEEN conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN PERKINS . I am a cork merchant, and live in Church-lane, Whitechapel. On 17th Oct. the prisoner was brought to me by a party—I had not known him before—I had known the other party—the prisoner produced this bill to me (looking at it)—he said it was for goods sold and delivered to Joseph Simpson, a neighbour of mine—he wanted it discounted—he said he understood I had accommodated a friend of his on one or two occasions, and if I could do it he should feel obliged—I knew Mr. Simpson by repute, and knew where he lived—I discounted the bill, and paid it into my banker's—it was presented when due, and was returned to me—on 16th Jan. I took the bill to Mr. Simpson, and told him I was rather surprised that a bill of to small an amount was returned—I never saw the prisoner afterwards till he was taken into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. No; Mr. Bugler, a mast maker, brought him to me.
JOSEPH SIMPSON . I am a potato dealer, and live at 3, Commercial-road. This name on this bill is not my writing—I did not give the prisoner authority to put my name to it, nor any one else—I never kept an account at the London and Westminster Bank—there is no other person of my name in the Commercial-road in my line of business.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you known the prisoner before? A. I have known him some years—he was at one time in good business—he never asked me to become his security in a loan society—he never asked me to do so—I never did it for any one in my life.
THOMAS RICHARDS (police-serjeant, 10 M). I went in search of the prisoner on 2nd Feb., Mr. Simpson was with me—I went to a public-house in Tooley-street; I saw the prisoner there—I asked whether his name was not Logie; he said no—Mr. Simpson came into the room immediately after, and the prisoner then said, "Yes, my name is Logie"—I told him I was a police-officer, and he must consider himself my prisoner, for forging a bill of exchange—he said, "O Lord, O Lord!"—he said at the station, "If they had left it alone one day longer, I should have been able to settle it."
(The prisoner received a good character).
GUILTY . Aged 45.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury,— Transported for Seven Years.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT TAYLOR . I am ostler, at the Two Brewers, at Ponder's End. On 11th Feb. I had in my charge three horses, one belonging to John Wren, one to Joseph Wren, and one to Mr. Benham—I had racked up these horses about 8 o'clock, and about 9 I was sent on an errand about 100 yards off, and as I was coming back I saw John Wren's mare outside the trough, about 22 yards from the stable door—it had a halter, and the prisoner had hold of the mare—I went to the mare, put my hand on it, and said, "Halloo, old girl, what are you doing here?"—the prisoner pushed me away, and said, "What have you to do with her"—he said Joseph Wren wanted her—I said, "You have made a mistake; you have not got Joseph Wren's mare"—I collared him with one hand, and took the mare with the other—the prisoner got away and ran; I called "Stop him!"—a man took him, and I went and held him till the policeman came—the prisoner wanted me to let him go, and he said
if any one would lend him a knife, he would rip my guts out—the haiter belonged to me, and the mare to John Wren.
JOSEPH WREN . I am a fishmonger, and live at Hoddesden. I kept a horse at the Two Brewers—I know the prisoner—he had worked for me—I did not authorise him on 11th Feb. to take a horse from the Two Brewers—neither mine nor my brother's.
GEORGE PAYNE . I keep a beer shop at Ponder's End. On the evening of 11th Feb. the prisoner came to my house; he asked if I wanted to buy any dominoes—I said, "No"—he then asked me if I wanted to buy a horse—I said, "No."
Prisoner's Defence. I went to the stable door, it was on the latch; I went in to look at Joseph Wren's mare; I had not seen her for eight or nine months, and being intoxicated, I took John Wren's; I took her to the trough, and was taking her back when the ostler came up and said, "What do you want;" I said, "I took this in mistake;" he said, "D—your eyes, I will pay you for this;" he thrashed me; I got from him, and ran 200 or 300 yards—I fell down, and a man took me back, and gave me in custody for stealing the horse; I have been living with all the Wren's people on and off for the last four or five years, and was never known to do so before; I was with Joseph the day before, and sold fish at Waltham market for him, and he sent me down the marsh after a horse, as late as 9 o'clock at night; I have been in the habit of going in and out these stables, and did not think it any harm.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner).
GUILTY . Aged 36.— Confined Six Months.
FELIX CARTER (City-policeman, 272.) At a quarter to 4 o'clock, on the morning of 17th Feb., I heard a noise in Christopher-court, St. Martin's-le-Grand—I listened, and heard some more noise—I went in the court and watched, and saw the prisoner come from No. 5, Christopher-court, on to the top of another house—I asked him what business he had there—he made no answer—I saw him go in at a window there—I went into the house—I looked out of a window and saw 85lbs. of lead on the roof of a coach-house—I examined the house, and when I was at the top of the house I heard a noise in the prisoner's room—I found some lead had been removed from No. 8, Four Dove-court—there is a communication from that house to the house where the prisoner was—I told the prisoner to let me into the room—he would not, and I burst the door in—I found the prisoner on the bed with his trowsers and shirt on, and as black as a sweep, as I was myself after I had searched the house—I took the prisoner into custody—I compared the lead I found with the place where the lead had been removed from; it exactly corresponded with the place it was taken from—I know the prisoner lived at the house I found him in No. 5—I found this old knife in his coat-pocket.
Prisoner. Q. Had this lead been cut by a knife? A. No, it was one sheet all entire, not cut at all.
COURT. Q. How long had you known the prisoner? A. About three years—I found him in a room I saw a man go into.
FREDERICK WYATT . I am a tailor and draper, and live at 8, Four Dove-court. I missed the lead from the top of the house on the morning of 17th Feb., it was there the night before—it had rained the night before, and I went up, and there was the dry dust—I know the prisoner by sight—the premises are mine.
WILLIAM JOHNSON (City-policeman, 280). I went into the prisoner's house—I went to the third floor—the door had been burst open; I went in, and saw the prisoner lying on the bed—I told him to rise; he made no answer—I took hold of him, and pulled him up—he had his trowsers on—I do not know whether he had his waistcoat on—before I went in the room, I heard something fall very heavy at the back of the premises, No. 8—I went to the spot, and found this lead; I took it to the station—I found this knife in the window in the prisoner's room—I looked out of the window, and saw some mortar rubbed down, and several tiles broken.
Prisoner's Defence. I know nothing, at all about it.
GUILTY .†Aged 23.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
HENRY HILL . I am in the service of Mr. James Flude; he keeps a book shop, in Postern-row, Tower-hill; he has books outside. On 18th Feb. I saw the prisoner take some books from there—I had not known him before—he went off; I ran after him—he had got three or four doors from the shop—I asked him for the books he had stolen—he said nothing, but threw the books down, and ran away—the policeman came back with him—I am sure he is the same person I had seen take the books—these are the books—it was about half-past 6 o'clock in the evening.
Prisoner. Q. Did you follow the person? A. No; I returned to my master's shop—I allowed the person to go off—you were brought back in about five minutes—I am sure you are the man that took the books.
ANDREW GURNON (police-sergeant, H 10). I was on duty on 18th Feb.; I heard a cry of "Stop thief!"and saw the prisoner running from Posternrow towards Tower-hill—I went and took him—I did not see him when Hill was with him.
Prisoner's Defence. I was returning from Tower-hill, about half-past 6 o'clock that evening; the policeman came to me, and accused me of stealing the books; I told him I knew nothing about them; he took me round a back street to the prosecutor's, where this boy took a lot of books from a lot of others, and said, "That is the man, and these are the books he stole; "I am quite innocent.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Two Months.
THOMAS JOSEPH REDGATE . I am a provision merchant, and reside in George-street. On the evening of 10th Feb., I was crossing Tower-hill, I felt my pocket moved by some one—I turned round, and saw the prisoner behind me—I laid hold of him—he said, "I have not your handkerchief"—I put my hand into his pocket, and took my handkerchief from him—this is it—it had been in my pocket.
Prisoner. Q. What made you take it till the policeman came up? A. Because I knew by your manner that you had got it.
Prisoner's Defence. I had not got it.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Three Months.
WILLIAM POWELL . I am porter to George Buchanan Kirkman and another, 5, Old Fish-street-hill. On 29th Jan., I missed a long spring truck, which had been left in front of the warehouse door—I had been out with some goods, and had left it there soon after 5 o'clock—it was worth 5l.—it was afterwards brought by a person named Taylor—there was the name of G. B. Kirkman, 5, Old Fish-street, City, on it—when I saw it again it was partly scraped off; I could make out some of it.
JOHN TAYLOR . I am a trunk and packing-case maker, and live in Queen's-row, Cambridge-road. I know the prisoner—in consequence of what I heard from Mr. Cannon, I bought a truck of the prisoner on 31st Jan. for 30s.—I told him I would not buy it without I saw the owner—he said I could not see the owner, she was a widow lady, living in George-court, Leicester-square—I said I would not buy it till he brought a bill and receipt, and he brought this—(read—"Mary Taylor, 6, George-court, I truck, 30s.")—I paid 30s. to the prisoner, and 2s. to Mr. Cannon, for bringing me the truck—I observed on it a portion of a name scratched out—I got a scrubbing-brush, and in a short time I made out the name, "George Buchanan Kirkman, 5, Old Fish-street, City"—I made off to Mr. Kirkman, and gave the truck to the last witness.
WILLIAM CANNON . I am a wheelwright, and live in Suffolk-street, Cambridge-road. I have known the prisoner three weeks, or a month—he brought me a truck on 31st Jan.; he had said, a fortnight or three weeks before, that he knew a woman who had got one to sell—he said it belonged to a widow, in Covent-garden market, and he was porter there, and she wanted to sell it, as she was going into the country—I asked Mr. Taylor if he would buy it, as I had not got the money—I received 2s. for bringing the parties together.
EDWARD SAYER (policeman, G 68). I took the prisoner; I told him it was for stealing a truck—he said he knew nothing about it—I took him to the Compter—he then said he did not steal the truck, a person named Charles Low, living in Drury-lane, gave it him.
Prisoner's Defence. I got the truck from Charles Low; he met me in Long-acre, and asked me if I knew where to sell a truck; he said, "Mrs. Taylor gave me a truck to sell, I have not got time to sell it; "he showed me the truck in Drury-lane, and three days afterwards I went to Mr. Cannon; I went and told Low, and he gave me a shilling to take the truck down; he told me to ask 2l. 5s. for it, but not to take less than 2l.; I took it to Mr. Cannon, he had not the money, and he took me to Taylor; he said he would only give me 30s. for it; I said I could not take it; I went back to Low, and he said, "Take it, and I will meet you in Smithfield;" I said, "Give me a bill," and he gave it me; I met Low in Smithfield, he gave me a shilling for my trouble, and I have not seen him since.
GUILTY on 2nd COUNT . Aged 25.— Confined Three Months.
GUILTY . Aged 38.— Confined Six Months.
290. THOMAS BUTLER and ROBERT MARLEY , breaking and entering the dwelling-house of James Robert Shayler, and stealing therefrom 804 rabbit skins, and other goods, value 28l.; his property.—2nd COUNT, receiving the same.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
ANDREW PATTERSON (City-policeman, 87). On Friday night, 6th Feb., I saw Butler on Snow-hill, from twenty minutes to a quarter to 12 o'clock—he was on a cab, coming off the stand—he went to the end of George-court, Snow-hill, left the cab, and went to the George public-house—I kept watch, and saw him come out of the house with Marley, who was carrying this bag—I asked him what he had got—he said he should not tell me—I was not satisfied, and looked in the bag; but previous to my opening it, he said they were rabbit skins—I opened the bag, and found they were rabbit skins—I asked where he got them from—he said he should not tell me—from some information I went to Mr. Wickenden, 9, Duke-street, Snow-hill, on Monday, 9th Feb.; I saw Mr. Wickenden, and put some questions to him—the prisoners were not there.
HENRY BUTLER . I live at 18, West-street, Spa-road, Bermondsey, and am in the employ of Mr. Elwood, 164, Aldersgate-street. I went to Mr. Wickenden's house on the morning of 9th Feb.—I went into the kitchen, and took from there three bags—there were some rabbit skins there; I took them, and some musquash skins, which are American skins—I took them to Mr. Shayler, the prosecutor.
JOHN ARCHER (policeman, G 217). I assisted in taking the skins out of the cab brought by the last witness to Mr. Shayler's door—on the morning of the 7th I went to examine the premises—information had been brought that they had been broken—I found that there had been a place from the street where coals had been in the habit of being shot down—I went into the cellar, and found some bricks had been broken away—I found footmarks which I traced along the cellar, and up the steps to the warehouse—what I saw led me to the conclusion that the premises had been opened and some property taken away.
Cross-examined by MR. M'MAHON. Q. Where was this cellar? A. Under the warehouse—there are two small houses taken, and made one warehouse—it it all under one roof—there is a door leading from one to the other which was open.
JAMES SHAYLER . I am a furrier, and live at 82, St. John-street-road, and at 21, Little Saffron-hill. I have seen these furs produced; these rabbit skins are my own, there musquash skins are Mr. Barnard Muller's, a furrier in Aldersgate-street; they were sent to me to dye. I know nothing of Marley—Butler had been in my employ about nine months—he must have known there were rabbit skins kept in that place—these were taken from the warehouse—previous to 7th of Feb. these had been deposited in the pasting room on the first-floor—these were taken from the pasting room—my residence is half a mile away—I did not go and see the wall broken—I did not miss any skins, but we found fifty-five dozen that were sent down on the 5th—they were in one bag, and they were gone; and sixty-five or sixty-six dozen of wild, and sixty dozen of tame rabbit skins—they were all brought, with the exception of seven or eight skins.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you all the skins here? A. No; these are some of the skins—these five are wild rabbit skins—these two are musquash—sometimes one rabbit skin is as like another as one egg is to another—I lost a number of skins—these are like what I lost—Butler had worked for me before—I can swear to the skins, these are a peculiar lot, and this skin bears my name on it—these skins bear the mark of B M on them—there are many traders in the fur line.
CONRAD HOFFMAN . I recollect some skins being in the pasting room at Mr. Shaylers, on 6th Feb. at half-past six o'clock—I shot up the warehouse, and all the places were fastened—next morning I went at 8 o'clock, I found the street door open—on getting in it was easy to get into the pasting room—the keys were kept in my pasting room up stairs—I had seen Butler three or four weeks back, close to the door where Mr. Shayler's house is.
Cross-examined. Q. You saw him near to Mr. Shayler's house, in the street? A. Yes; my master's house is in the public street.
SUSANNAH DELARE . I am a laundress, and live at 7, Saffron-hill, right opposite Mr. Shayler's warehouse—I know the prisoner Butler, and I have frequently seen Marley with him—on Friday evening, 6th Feb., about a quarter before 8 o'clock, I saw two men standing opposite Mr. Shayler's premises—I will not swear to the men—one was standing with his elbow on the window cill—the other one who had whiskers, crossed over opposite my door—I should say the prisoners are the men by their appearance, but I will not swear it—I saw them again at 8, at the same place—I saw them three times—I could recognise them each time by their dress, but their features I will not swear to.
Cross-examined. Q. You had a good opportunity of seeing the men? A. Yes; I will not swear these are the men—the street is not wide—it is a thoroughfare for everybody—Little Saffron-hill is a well known thoroughfare—there was light enough, and I took notice enough—I swear that the man with the whiskers crossed over, and the other who had none stood against the door.
COURT. Q. Do you believe the prisoners are the men? A. Yes, but I will not swear it; I believe that from what I saw of the men.
JOHN GEORGE GROVER (City policeman, 294). On Friday night, 6th Feb., I saw the two prisoners, 5 or 10 minutes before 11 o'clock, coming from Smithfield-bars, and turning to King-street, in a direction from the prosecutor's premises—Butler had a bag with him, and Marley walked close by his side—this bag is like the one Butler was carrying—it appeared to be about three-parts full, and tied down, with a string round it.
Cross-examined. Q. Is that a distance of more than a mile from the prosecutor's? A. About a mile, I should say; it might be three quarters.
WILLIAM WICKENDEN . I live at 9, Duke-street, Smithfield. Butler came to me on Friday, 6th Feb., between 8 and 9 o'clock, to take a workshop of me—I had known him in the furrier line—he and another man brought a bag on my premises—I have a slight idea that Marley was the other man, but I will not swear to it—the policemen afterwards came—I showed them the bags, and they were taken from my premises.
Cross-examined. Q. How long had you known Butler? A. Some little time, only by seeing him, perhaps for twelve months—I never knew anything particular about him—I always thought he was a respectable young fellow—I always knew he bore a good character.
ROBERT LISTER . I live in Artillery-place, Bermondsey; I drive a cab for Mr. Matthew Wood, of Freeschool-street. I know Marley—on Friday, 6th Feb., he came to me on my rank, and told me he wanted me to go to George-court, Snow-hill, to take a fare to go to Cold bath-fields—I went there, and pulled up, and the policeman came up and said, "Where are you going?"—I said, "To Cold bath-fields"—he stood there, and while he was there the prisoners came with a bag.
Marley. Q. Do you swear I came and fetched the cab from the stand? A. I do.
ALFRED COOPER . I am a brass-finisher, and live in Christopher-court. I was at Mr. Wickenden's shop on Friday, 6th Feb.—I saw two men come there with some bags—I do not know whether there were two bags or three, but they had a bag each—they put them down stairs into the kitchen—I did not observe the appearance of the men at all.
Cross-examined. Q. Were the bags full or empty? A. They appeared three-parts full; that was about half-past 8 o'clock.
Marley. I was desired to carry a bag to George-court that evening; the policeman says that Butler hired the cab, and the caiman says I hired it.
(Butler received a good character, and was recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.)
BUTLER— GUILTY on the Second Count . Aged 24.
MARLEY— GUILTY. Aged 33.On the Second Count .— Confined Nine Months .
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, Feb. 24th, 1852.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FAREBROTHER; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt. Ald.;
Mr. RECORDER, and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
291. FREDERICK MARTIN and MICHAEL JOY , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Rebecca Langworthy, and stealing 3 shawls, 2 table-cloths, 3 locks and other articles, value 2l., and 7s. in money, her property: to which
MARTIN pleaded GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
Upon Mr. MR. M'MAHON'S opening, the COURT considered that there was no case against Joy.
JOY— NOT GUILTY .
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM CHARLES BOORE . I am a clerk, in the London Joint-stock Bank, Princes-street, Mr. Christie is one of the trustees, and is also a proprietor. On 4th Feb. this bill of exchange for 110l. (produced) was presented at our bank—it was paid—it purports to bear the acceptance of W.S. Orr, and Co., who are customers of ours—it is like their acceptance—I have not got my books here.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. When was it due. A. 4th Feb.
GEORGE DAVIS . I have an office at Railway-place, Fenchurch-street—I bank at the Union Bank, Princes-street—I know the prisoner—on 9th Dec. I received this bill of exchange from him—he asked me to discount it—I did so—on 3rd Feb. he came to my private residence at Homerton, late in the evening, and said Messrs. Orr wished the bill held back for a few days, and not to be presented at the London Joint-stock Bank—he requested me to pay the bill the following morning, and handed me over 110l. to prevent its being presented—next morning, Feb., 4th, I went to the Union Bank with the money as I had promised him the previous evening, and found the bill had gone out—I left the money with the clerk who has possession of the bills, supposing the bill would not be paid—that is the usual course—it was payable at the London Joint-stock Bank—about three o'clock that afternoon the prisoner called and said he had better leave it as long as he could, in order that there might
be no difficulty in getting the bill, the clerk might not be back—I had been down at 2, and the clerk had not returned with the bill—he called again at 4, and I told him he had better go with me to the Union Bank—he did so, and the clerk told me the bill had been paid in due coarse—he returned me the 110l. which I had left in the morning, which I handed over to the prisoner—this is my endorsement on the bill.
Cross-examined. Q. He brought you the whole money in notes? A. Yes; a 100l. and a 10l. note—the amount I had given him a cheque for was 107l. 10s.—I charged 2l. 10s. interest.
WILLIAM SOMERVILLE ORE . I am a bookseller, and publisher, of Amen corner, Paternoster-row. I know the prisoner—I have employed him as an engineer—he put me up a steam engine and boiler, and did other things in a printing-office which I was establishing—part of the arrangement was, that he was to be paid with a bill at nine months—when the hydraulic press was put up he applied to me for a settlement, and stated that a nine months' bill was too long a date for him to use, and requested me to give him one at six months on his undertaking to extend the credit at the proper time when it became due—this bill became due in Nov., he applied to me for it some time in May—in Dec. I had occasion to see him on this business, and I said I did not want the whole of the bill used, and gave him a six months' bill, falling due about 29th or 30th Nov. or 1st Dec.—on 2nd Dec in the morning I received a draft from him for 110l. accepted—the amount of the first bill was 180l. 3s. 3d., and it was renewed to the amount of 110l.—I accepted his draft for that sum on 2nd Dec., at two months date—it has been paid—it was dated the 1st, accepted on the 2nd, and fell due on 4th Feb,—this is not ray acceptance (looking at the bill)—but it is so close an imitation of my writing that I should not have known it myself unless the other had been paid previously—I did not authorise the prisoner to draw two bills at any time—I never gave him more than one bill for 110l., and this is not it—this bill was not written by my authority.
Cross-examined. Q. This bill has been paid not out of your account, but by money paid into the bank? A. No; it was paid out of my account—it was paid on 4th, and on 5th 100l. stands to my credit in the bank books, which I knew nothing about—I have not got my pass book here—I am sure it was on the 5th—the bank open a fresh account of all that is paid in after half past 3 o'clock, which goes to the account of the next day.
COURT. Q. Then, although it appears to have been paid in on the 5th, it may have been paid in on the 4th, between half-past 3 and 4 o'clock? A. Yes.
JOHN SPITTLE (City-policeman, 9). I took the prisoner on 15th Feb., at his factory, in Boston-street, Hackney-road—I said, "I have just come from Mr. Davis, of Homerton, who discounted a bill for 110l. for you, with the acceptance of Mr. Orr, of Amen-corner; I wish you to account for how you became possessed of that, for that acceptance is a forgery?"—I was not in uniform, but I had told him before that I was an officer—he said he remembered receiving a bill of that amount from Mr. Orr, but he could not say to whom he had paid it—I said, "You paid a genuine bill of that amount to Mr. Ford, of Leadenhall-street; will you account for the second bill for that amount, which you gave to Davis?"—he said he had no recollection of a second bill, nor could he say whether he paid the one he received from Mr. Orr, to Ford or to Davis.
Cross-examined. Q. You heard him say he was quite innocent of having any felonious intention? A. Yes.
(The bill being read, was dated London, Dec. 1st, 1851, drawn by John Gilbert and Co., on J.V. S. Orr and Co., purporting to be accepted, payable at the London Joint Stock Bank, in the name of W. S. Orr and Co., for 110l., payable to order two months after date.) The prisoner received a good character.
(MR. BALLANTINE, in addressing the Jury, urged upon them that they could not find the prisoner Guilty, unless they were satisfied that the forging or uttering of the bill in question was accompanied with an intent to defraud, which, he submitted, was negatived by the prisoner's conduct, in endeavouring to meet the bill, and so preventing injury to any party. The RECORDER, in summing up, directed the Jury, that if they were of opinion that the prisoner had either forged the bill, or uttered it, knowing it to have been forged, representing it to be genuine, although he might have intended to meet it before it became due, still they were bound, according to decisions of the Judges, almost as a matter of law, and also as a matter of common sense, to conclude the existence of an intent to defraud. Mr. Baron Alderson (in Reg. v. Hill, Moody's Crown Cases, p. 30), had told the Jury, that if they were satisfied that the prisoner uttered the bill, knowing at the time that it was a forgery, and meaning that the party to whom he uttered it should believe it to be genuine, they were bound to infer that he intended to defraud. Mr. Justice Patteson (in Reg. v. Cooke, 8 Carrand Pagne, 582) had held, "If the prisoner at the time he uttered this bill knew that the acceptance was forged, and meant the bill to be taken as a bill with a genuine acceptance upon it, the inevitable conclusion is, that he intended to defraud: that was the opinion of the Judges in a late case reserved for their consideration: there was an earlier case, of Rex v. James, tried before me at Gloucester, in which I did not lay down this proposition strongly enough, but the law upon the point is as I have now stated."Mr. Baron Parke had also held" a person is guilty of forgery, not withstanding he may himself intend ultimately to take up the bill, and may suppose that the party whose name is forged will be no loser: if in the present case you are satisfied that the prisoner knew this acceptance to be forged, and uttered it as true, and believed that the bankers would advance money on it which they would not otherwise do, that is ample evidence of an intent to defraud, and evidence upon which a Jury ought to act: it appears tha this bill has been since paid by the prisoner; but that will make no difference, if the offence has been once completed at the time of uttering." The result of those opinions amounted to this, that if a man forged or uttered a bill, intending that it should pass as a genuine bill, without informing those to whom he passed it, that it was not genuine, then, in the very act of uttering it he would be guilty of uttering it knowing it to have been forged; and the law and common sense together would bind the Jury to come to the conclusion that he intended to defraud, although it was, of course, in their power to come to a different result.
MR. BALLANTINE requested the Recorder to put the point thus to the Jury, that although the first presumption raised by the uttering would be an intention to defraud, yet that that intent might be rebutted by the conduct of the prisoner. The RECORDER declined to place a proposition in those terms before the Jury: he did not put it as a matter of absolute law, but would adopt the very cautious expression of Mr. Justice Patteson, that it was "almost a matter of law."
The JURY found the prisoner Guilty of Uttering, but desired strongly to recommend him to the consideration of the Court, unanimously believing that he had no intention to defraud.—The RECORDER could not receive such a findings and requested the Jury to reconsider their verdict. MR. BALLANTINE urged that the finding of the Jury should be recorded in its very terms. The RECORDER could not consent to that course, but would take a note of the matter, and communicate with the Judges.—The JURY then found the prisoner
GUILTY , and strongly
recommended him to mercy. Upon a subsequent day he was sentenced to be Imprisoned for Four Months. )
293. THOMAS MADDOX and WILLIAM AYLING , burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Isabella Yeld, and stealing 3 spoons, and 1 canister, value 3s. 4d., her property; and 13 ozs. of tea, 2 needle cases, 1 knife, and 1 ornament, value 4s. 8d.; the goods of Catherine Crowe: to which
MADDOX pleaded GUILTY . Aged 17.—He received a good character.— Confined Six Months.
MR. PARNELL conducted the Prosecution.
CATHERINE CROW . I am servant to Mrs. Isabella Yeld, who lives at 35, Queen's-road, St. John's-wood. On Friday night, 23rd Jan., I left the kitchen at half-past 9 o'clock—I fastened the window and shutter securely; I then went up to my mistress's room, and remained there till 10, when we all went to bed—I did not go to the kitchen again that night—I went to it again next morning, at a quarter to 7—I found the kitchen door thrown open—I had left it closed the night before—I found the three drawers of the kitchen dresser wide open—the shutter was quite down, a pane of glass broken, and the top sash of the window quite down—an iron bar was wrenched out—there were marks on the shutter which the policeman examined—I missed some tea, a needle case, a knife, a small ivory ornament, and three spoons—I have since seen them.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. The whole ofthe articles were not of any great value, were they? A. No; I heard no noise in the night.
GEORGE FRANKS KEED . I am an ironmonger, living in Crawford-street. Maddox was in my employment—Mrs. Yeld is a customer of mine—on Saturday, 24th Jan., I saw a needle case, some tea, and some spoons in Maddox'a cost pocket—I sent to the station for the inspector, and a constable took the things.
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose Maddox had been a respectable young man up to that time? A. I believe he had—I never heard anything against him previous to this—he was with me more than twelve months—his wages were 1s. a week.
MR. PARNELL. Q. Were you aware of his having been taken into custody some time before, for being in a garden in the New road? A. Yes; but I did not know it till the policeman told me.
JAMES CLARK (policeman, D 268). On 24th Jan., in consequence of information, I went to 11, Queen-street, Oxford-street, where Ayling lives—I knew he lived there from information I received—after waiting there some time he came home, and I took him into custody—I told him he must consider himself in custody for being concerned with another one, in custody, in breaking into a house in Queen's-road last night—he said, "Very well; I was out all last night with a person of the name of Maddox, and we went to several public houses together"—I searched his room, and there fonnd a screwdriver and a knife saw (produced)—the knife saw looked as if it had been recently used, there were small pieces of sawdust in the teeth of it—they appeared to be fresh—I found on Ayling a small white veil or fall—on bis way to the station he said, he wished he had kept out of Maddox's company, and he should not have been where he was then—I knew them both before—I have seen them in company together several times—I have some spoons which I found in a coat pocket belonging to Maddox I went to the prosecutrix's premises on Monday, 26th Jan.—I found some marks outside
the shutters—I compared those marks with the screw driver; I found they corresponded exactly—as far as I could judge, they appeared to have been made by that instrument.
Cross-examined. Q. You say you have seen them together; you have seen them drinking together, have you not? A. No; I saw them in custody together before—they were discharged on that occasion by the inspector, without being taken before a Magistrate—this fall has not been claimed by the prosecutrix—sometimes people go about with things similar to this over their faces to disguise themselves when they commit depredations—I have seen several such cases in the paper.
HENRY LUCKING . I am a linkman. On Friday night, 93rd Jan., I was pursuing my avocation at 22, Acacia-road, from about 9 o'clock at night, till between 3 and 4 in the morning—Acacia-road is about 200 yards from the Queen's-road—I saw both the prisoners at about half-past 1, or a quarter to 2—they were going towards the Queen's-road from the Eyre Arms—I spoke to Ayling, and said, "Good night," or "Good morning," and he returned it—I took notice of them—I can speak confidently as to their being the two—Madox had a brown coat on at the time, and had his hands in his pockets.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you know them before? A. No.
JAMES CLARK re-examined by MR. PAERY. I examined some footmarks in the road, over the two walls, at the back of Mrs. Yeld's bouse—I found the traces of only one person—I saw the marks of corduroy trowsers; Maddox had corduroy trowsers.
MR. PEARNELL. Q. At the place where you saw those footmarks, could they have got into the front kitchen window? A. Yes, it was leading round to the window—the footmarks were at the back, in the garden—there are two walls, which they must have got over, and gone through a door, leading from the back of the house to the front—a person could get from there to the kitchen window without going into the Queen's-road.
COURT. Q. How did you compare the screw-driver? A. I placed it against the window frame, and found it corresponded exactly; I put the screw-driver into the impression—I had examined it before I did so, by merely looking at it—I did not measure the mark—the wood was rather soft—I saw no marks on the premises of any saw.
MR. PARRY called
THOMAS MADDOX (the prisoner). I went to Mr. Keed's to work, in Dec, 1850, and remained there till about a month ago—I have confessed to committing this crime—Ayling was in my company that evening; I had been with him drinking at several public-houses that evening—I was in his company till just after the linkman saw him with me—the linkman did see us, and wish us good night—I missed Ayling when I got over the wall; I did not see him when I came back.
Q. Had he anything to do with the robbery; tell the truth? A. He knew of it the same night, but he did not have anything to do with it—he did not share the plunder in any way—I missed him suddenly; I thought he was following me—I did not see him again till he was in custody.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. Then you did not see him when you came from Mrs. Yeld's? A. I did not—I did not look about for him—I went straight home; I got home about half-past 4 o'clock—I had to be at Mr. Keed's about 7—the inspector was sent for between 1 and 2—I was
just going to my diuner—I had not arranged to meet Ay ling in the course of the day—I had no time, because I missed him—I went to the back of the house first—I had told him of the robbery the same evening, in Crawford-street, when I left off work—he was then waiting there for me—I had not mentioned it to him before that—I left work at 8, and went to Mr. Gates's public-house, at the corner of Wy ndham-place—it was there that I mentioned it to him—that was about 9—he remained in my company from then till 2—the Queen's-road was not in bis way home—I was not going to any other place than Mrs. Yeld's—the last public house we went to was, I think, the United States, in Oxford-street—we had walked all the way from Oxford-street to the Queen's-road—we bad passed Avenue-road, and just as I got to the wall of Mrs. Yeld's, Ayling disappeared—he had often been out with me before at night, and in the daytime too—it was in the night-time that we were found in the garden in the New-road, about a quarter to I—we were going home, having a lark, and seeing the gate open, I pushed Ayling in, and shut myself out; we were not both in the garden, he was inside, and I was outside—I was going to let him out, and found that the catch of the lock was broken—I saw a boy watching us, and said to Ayling, "You had better get over the gate, I can't open it—he got over, and we were taken into custody by two policemen, at the corner of Quebec-street, and were discharged at the station—I opened the window with a screw driver; I had bought it a fortnight before—I threw it away in the canal as I crossed the bridge—I do not know that Ayling knew I had got a screw driver, I never told him—when I told him I was going to break into Mrs. Yeld's that night, he said he would take a walk with me—that was all he said—we had ne more conversation about it as we walked up the Avenue-road—we were not looking about for the police, there was no occasion; there were none there, as I knew—I cannot say whether it is three or four months ago that we were found in the garden—Aylmg is a gentleman's servant; he has been out of place about six months.
MR. PARRY. Q. As regards being in this garden, did you tell the inspector the same story as you have told us, and were you discharged? A. Yes; I was searched and nothing was found on me—this screw-driver it not the one I used on this night, nor the saw—we bad both been drinking a good deal; we were both very near drunk.
AYLING— GUILTY, as an accessory before the fact .—Aged 19.— Confined Four Months.
MR. BRIARLY conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY FULSTONE . I am an easy chair maker, of 127, Long-alley, Moorfields—I know the prisoner, and gave him a job once, about two years and a half ago—on 2nd Feb. I went to bed about half-past II o'clock; the doors were all fast—I sleep in the back parlour which looks into Sugar-loaf-court—I did not observe the window, as I did not know the sash opened—it was shut when I went to bed—next morning I was awoke by the opening of the drawers, and saw the prisoner standing at my bed-side steadfastly looking at me—(the drawers were not open when I went to bed, that I am aware of)—I jumped out of bed, laid hold of him, and said, "You vagabond," or "You villain, it is you"—I had got hold of his coat when he was outside the window—he turned round and said if I did not let go he would knock my b—y head off—I could not bear him on my arm on the sash, so I let go, and
he ran away—I gave information at the police-station—I missed nothing, but a day or two after I found the front lock of the door was wrenched from the screws—a drunken man could not have got in in the way he did—there was no fastening to the window, but it shut to, tight—it required considerable force to open it—it was open when I awoke.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. What are your times of working? A. From 5 o'clock in the morning till 10 at night—I work at 127, Long-alley—I have worked after 10 occasionally—I went to bed on the night in question about half-past 11—I found the prisoner in my room about a quarter to 5 in the morning—I was not alone—I had my partner and child in bed at the time—I am living with a party; not married—I have no other partner, she is turned out of the firm—I thought she was my wife for several years—I was married to her—she is alive—she was not in bed with me that night—the child was the woman's I was living with—I had known the prisoner before, two years and a half—he is company I never associated with—I believe he is a single man—I know nothing of his wanting a partner—he was not at all attentive to the lady who goes by the name of Mrs. Fulstone—he has abused her in beastly language many times before—they are not at all on friendly terms—she is here—I and the prisoner have drank together two and half years ago, but never since that I can remember—I will not swear I have not, but do not recollect it—I have not done so twenty times, nor ten times—nor have I drank at the same table with him over and over again, and the woman I live with, not that I am aware of—I may have drank in the same room as he was, but not at the same table—I cannot swear for Mrs. Fulstone—I swear for myself—I have drank in the same room with the prisoner, and believe the woman I live with may have once—it is four months ago that the prisoner abused her—my partner's clothes were in the drawers—there was a light in the room.
MR. BRIALY. Q. Had there been any intimacy between you and the prisoner? A. Not for two years—we were not intimate—I never associated with him, for his company did not suit me—there was no question between him and my partner, no more than he insulted her—it was abuse and not at all like love-making—he has never claimed her, or wanted her to go and live with him—I think it was what was in the drawers he wanted to claim.
EDWARD SAYER (policeman, G 68.) I took the prisoner on Wednesday, the 4th—he asked me the charge—I told him it was for getting into the house of Mr. Fulstone, of Long-alley—he said he knew nothing about it—at the station he said he must have been drunk at the time.
MARY ANN BELL . I cohabit with Fulstone—I know the prisoner well—he is not an intimate acquaintance of mine, only when I have gone for my supper beer I have been insulted greatly by him, which is not fit to be mentioned in Court—I never spoke to the man in my life.
Cross-examined. Q. You know Fulstone is a married man? A. I do; I know where his wife lives—she is not fit to be called a wife, and I supply her place—I have got a husband who is not fit to be called a husband—a man who leaves his wife to another one is not fit to be called a husband—I was left with a child, and I found Fulstone a good partner—he has acted a father to my child, and as a husband to me, and a good husband—he sometimes gets up to his work at 5 and sometimes at 6 o'clock, and sometimes I remain in bed a little afterwards—I am not aware that the prisoner knew what time Fulstone went to work—I have never been in the same room as the prisoner drinking—I can swear that to a truth, not drinking with him—
I cannot tell whether I have drank in the room where he was—I have got no associates—you cannot be any man if you want me to name the language he uses to me—I cannot name it—he has made no proposals to me of an impure kind, he has insulted me whenever I went for my beer, by his words and his looks, but not by touching me—his words shocked me, and would shock any other delicate female—I am as'delicate as they are, although I am misfortunate.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
CHRISTOPHER WALTON . I am a goldsmith and jeweller, of 24, Ludgate-street—about half-past 5 o'clock on 17th Oct. I was in the counting-house, at the further end of the shop—the prisoner came in and stood still—I beckoned to him to come forward, and asked what he wanted, he said, "Have you any plated studs at half-a-crown a set?"—I said I did not keep such things—I saw he had a set of studs in his shirts—he went back making a noise with his feet rather louder than ordinary—he went back with a firm step, as if he was going out, and I turned to my writing again, thinking he had gone out—I continued writing four or five minutes; presently I heard a sound of something falling in the shop—I instantly went, and found the prisoner at the end of the counter, which is open at both ends—he was close to the window—I said, "What are you doing here?"he replied, after some little hesitation, "I beg your pardon, I thought you were coming to serve me"—I said, "Why you know I told you I had not got the article, what are you doing?"—I looked in the till to see if anything was missing—I did not look in the window where the rings were—I had nobody in the place with me, and after some hesitation, thinking possibly I might be mistaken, as he had a respectable appearance, I asked him his name and address—I forget the name he gave, but he said he lived at 3, Bishopsgate-street—I gave him a caution—I said, "Well, be off, and do not come here again"—I have not the slightest doubt he is the young man—he stood before me some time with the full gas light on his face—when he was gone I thought I would see what it was that made the noise, and I found a diamond ring on the floor in a corner where he had been standing—it had been in a tray in the window—I looked in the window and found the large diamond rings gone—the tray had the prices on it, that could not be removed, the gas branch prevented the window being opened, so as to draw the tray out—it was shut in a glass window—we unlock the windows in the morning, and lock them at night—the middle one opens sideways, and the other pushes to—I found it a little open, but I did not think much of that, because sometimes we let a little air in when the gas is alight—I missed from the tray eleven rings, the prices of which were on little cards attached to the velvet, which were left behind—the trade price of the rings was about 300l.—I had seen them continually—I was not many minutes without seeing them in the course of business—there were two about an inch and a quarter in diameter, mixed up with smaller ones—I had been in and out in the afternoon—I had then been in ten minutes or a quarter of an hour—my shopman had gone out with some gold chains to show—he came back in about an hour—I told him I had had a youth in, and he described him fully—I wrote a description of him, and sent it round to six of the chief towns of England, Birmingham being one—in the beginning of Nov. I received this letter (produced) dated 17th Nov., from the chief of the police of Birmingham—I went there—the superintendent took me round the prison—I saw the prisoner
there, and immediately said, "You are the boy who was with me on 7th Oct."—he said, "All Oct. I was at my sister's at Kew"—this stud (produced) is the description of stud which the boy wore, and which I described on the paper I sent down.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. When did you go to Birming. ham? A. I do not know exactly, but it was two or three days after the date of the letter; on a Thursday, I believe—the inspector, who is here, was present when the prisoner said he was at his sister's at Kew—I mentioned that before the Magistrate, but what I said was not half put down—I suppose they did not think it was evidence—it was at Guildhall, before an Alderman.
WILLIAM FISK . I am assistant to Mr. Walton. I went out on this evening some time before half-past 5 o'clock, the rings were safe then; I returned a little after 6—the prisoner has been to the shop about half a dozen times in the three months before the robbery, always asking for plated studs, or mother of pearl buttons; he said nothing about the price till the last time, which was on 17th Oct. between 1 and 2, the day of the robbery, he came and asked if we kept plated studs—I said, "About what price?"he said, "Half a crown"—I said we did not keep them—I recognised him as having been in several times before, and spoke to him very sharply in consequence—he turned to leave the shop, and I went to my dinner; but as I did not hear the door close, I turned, and found him three parts of the way up the counter—he immediately pulled up short on his toes, as if he had been walking quietly, and said, "Can you tell me where I can get them, Sir?"—I told him he could get them lower down—this stud is exactly like the one he wore on that day—he generally came in different dresses, and always when no one was in the shop, about mealtimes—I was generally in the counting house.
Cross-examined. Q. You swear the stud he wore was exactly like that? A. Yes; there is no difference whatever; this has five sides, I noticed that there were five sides to his stud—I noticed that that was the pattern, and I should say, it was just the size of this.
GEORGE GLOSSOP . I am inspector of the detective police at Birmingham. I saw a description in the route book, in which we send descriptions round by route; in consequence of which I communicated with Mr. Walton—I saw him when he came down—I saw the prisoner when he was apprehended and brought in on 1st Nov.—I said, "Oh! he is wanted in London for stealing diamond rings"—he replied, "I never was in London"—the turnkey said, "You told one of the officers that you went to the Exhibition"—he said, "Yes, I did go up once to see that"—he remained five days in my custody—I sent him somewhere else, and three months afterwards he was brought here—I got these two studs (produced) from the station to which the prisoner was first taken in Nov.—I placed them and his gold watch, and other things before him, and he said, "Give me my studs;" I said, "No; I must keep them, they are necessary to the case"—they exactly correspond with this other stud produced, and which was sent up by letter—when he was apprehended, a gold watch and chain, a gold ring, these studs, and 13s. were found on him.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
WILLIAM WILCOX . I am a jeweller, of Bermondsey. I produce a certificate—(read—Central Criminal Court; William Richardson, convicted of stealing money from a till, Nov, 1849; confined one year)—I was a witness against him on another charge of stealing a gold watch, upon which he was acquitted—he is the man.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Transported for Seven Years.
JAMES ARMSTRONG (policeman H 87). On 18th Feb., at 3 o'clock in the morning, I found the prisoner in Mr. Riley's cellar, under the house—there are bars about an inch and a half asunder under the shop window, on the flags—I found this iron bar (produced) broken off, by which means anybody could get into the cellar—I tumbled in, turned my light on, and found the prisoner—(I had called to him before I went in, and asked what he was doing there; he made no answer)—I laid hold of him; I said nothing, but he said, "Bad company has led me into it; I am innocent, two men broke the flap, and unlocked the padlock, and put me in, and I was to go up stairs, open the front door for them, and let them in; and hearing the noise when you came to the flap, I took you to be them"—I searched him, and found in his pocket this wax taper (produced), and two lucifer matches; there were several matches thrown about the ground—while I was searching him, he said, "I have got no tools about me, the men have got the tools, I am innocent, I have been led into it"—I had passed the cellar flap about twenty minutes before, it was safe then, it locks inside—he said the men lived in Brick-lane, but next morning he denied knowing anything about them.
Prisoner. I had been at my aunt's, and had been drinking. Witness. He appeared a little the worse for liquor; he could walk very well, he appeared to know what he was saying—going to the station, he said one of the men was named Burton—a man named Burton is known to one of our sergeants, Jackson—he repeated next morning that bad company had led him into it; he knew nothing about the men—he did not say he had been drinking with his aunt.
JOHN RILEY . I am a cheesemonger, of 75, Whitechapel-road, in the parish of St. Mary's, Whitechapel. On the night of Wednesday, 18th Feb., I was called up by a policeman, I went down, and found the prisoner in custody—I had seen the cellar shut up at 10 o'clock the night before—I found the flap forced when I came down—I lost no property, there wasnot time—there was cheese in the cellar, and butter in the shop.
Prisoner's Defence. My mother and myself were returning from the play, she told me to run home and light a fire against she came home; I met two gentlemen standing by the cellar, who said if I went down and opened the door they would give me a trifle of money; I went down, I did not know what I was about, or I should not have done it.
JAMES ARMSTORNG re-examined. He gave his address, 12, Duke-street—I went there, but no such person was known; I could not find his mother—a man could get into the cellar, it was five feet wide, there was no necessity to have a boy.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
JOHN NEWELL (policeman, R 340). I produce a certificate—(read—Central Criminal Court; William Smith, convicted on his own confession, Aug. 1850, of stealing boots; confined six months)—I was present, the prisoner is the person—there were two other cases against him; but he was not tried upon them. GUILTY .* Aged 17.— Transported for Seven Years.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, February 24th, 1852.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FARBROTHER; Sir JOHN MUSGROVE, Bart., Ald.; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.
GUILTY . Aged 39.— Confined Twelve Months.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
EDWIN RICHARD MATHHEWS . I am a chemist, of Margaret-terrace, Paddington. On 5th Feb. The prisoner came, about half-past 3 o'clock—she asked for 1d.-worth of hair-oil, and 1d.-worth of Epsom salts—I served her—she gave me a shilling—I gave her 10d. change, and she went away—she had scarcely got outside the door, when she returned, and said I had given her a bad sixpence—I was not aware that I had a bad sixpence in my possession, but I gave her another sixpence for it—I had left the shilling I had given change for, in the drawer, and the bad sixpence I put into my pocket—the prisoner returned in two or three minutes, and asked for another ounce of salts—she tendered me another shilling—I said, "I have no change; you had better go and ask for two sixpences for the shilling"—she went out, and soon after came in again, with Mr. Gurr; he asked me if I had sent her for change, and he said, "This is a bad shilling"—I said, "It is very strange; she gave me a bad sixpence just now"—I pulled it out, and said, "This is the sixpence"—I looked into the drawer—I had only one shilling there, and I found that to be bad also—I said, "This is bad too"—the prisoner was given into custody—I gave the bad shilling and the sixpence to the officer.
GEORGE GURR . I am assistant to a cheesemonger, in Margaret-terrace. The prisoner came to me, in the name of the last witness, for change for a shilling—I saw at once it was a bad one—I returned with her to Mr. Matthews' shop, and gave the shilling to the officer.
Prisoner. I am unfortunate; the two shillings were given me the overnight.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
EMILY MARIA TURNER . My husband is a confectioner and tobacconist, in Wells-street, Oxford-street. On 27th Jan. the prisoner came, about 10 o'clock at night—he asked for three cigars—they came to 6d.—he tendered in payment a half sovereign—I counted out 9s. 6d. in change—I looked at the half sovereign—it was good, I am quite sure—the prisoner found fault
with the cigars, that they were not scented—he had not taken up the 9s. 6d.—he asked me to give him back the half sovereign—I gave him back the same half sovereign that he had given me; and having done so, he changed bis mind, and said he would take the cigars, provided I would change them if they were not liked—I put down the 9s. 6d. again, and took up a half sovereign which he put down, believing it to be the same I had had before—I put it into a box, with some silver, but no other half sovereign—I had no other half sovereign in the house—I locked the box—my husband went to the box in about an hour, and the half sovereign turned out to be bad—I gave it to the officer.
JOHN JAMES TURNER . I am husband of the last witness. I went to the box on 27th Jan.—I found only one half sovereign there—it was bad—I gave it to my wife, and she gave it to the officer—it was not out of my sight—the box was not locked, but the place the half sovereign was in was locked—I got the key of it from my wife.
ROBERT THRUPP . I am assistant to Messrs. Winter and Co., artists'-colourmen. The prisoner came there on 29th Jan., and asked for 6d.-worth of chrome—I served him—he gave me a 5s.-piece—I saw it was bad, and gave him into custody, and gave it to the officer.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES HENRY HAMILTON . I keep the Artichoke, at St. George's in the East. On 11th Feb. the prisoner came to the house—she asked for a glass of gin, and paid me with a bad shilling—I found it was bad directly she put it down—I asked her whether she had got any more—shesaid, "No"—I said, "Have you got any money to pay for the gin?"—she said, no, it was all the money she had got—she had drunk part of the gin, and while we were talking she put down the rest of it—I asked her where she lived—she said that was her own business—I said I thought that was the third visit she bad paid me, and unless she could pay for the gin I should give her into custody—she was taken, but nothing more was found on her, and she was discharged—they told me to mark the shilling, which I did, and gave it to the policeman.
ELIZA TOWNE . My husband is a tobacconist, in Suffolk-place, Commercial-road. On 17th Feb., the prisoner came to our shop for half an ounce of tobacco—it came to three-halfpence—she gave me half a crown—I noticed it was bad, and told her so—she said it was given to her by a gentleman—I bent it, and gave it to my husband.
and 1s. 6d. in silver, and 1 1/2 d. were found in her pocket—I received this half-crown from the last witness—a female searched the prisoner, and gave me what she found—she told me, in the prisoner's presence, that she had found it on her.
Prisoner. I had just taken the money—I was not aware it was bad.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Month.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
LYDIA JUDGE . My mother lives at China-place, St. George's, andkeeps a chandler's shop. On 3rd Feb., between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a half-quartern loaf—she gave me a shilling; I was trying it with my teeth, to see if it was good—while I was trying it a woman came in and said, "Try that shilling well; I have followed this woman up the Highway, she is passing bad money"—that woman took the shilling out of my hand, and gave it to my mother—this is the shilling, the marks of my teeth are on it.
ELIZABETH JUDGE . I am the mother of the last witness. I saw the prisoner give my daughter a shilling—a woman came in and said she had followed the prisoner up the Highway, and she had been passing bad money—she took the shilling and handed it to me—this is it; it was not out of my sight.
CAROLINE HEDGES . I am the wife of a policeman. I searched the prisoner—she pulled off one boot, and said I had no occasion to have the other off—I said I must have it off; I found in it this shilling—she went down on her knees, and begged of me to make away with it, and not to say anything about it; not to say it was bad.
Prisoner's Defence. I took two shillings from a young man; I never knew that they were bad.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Six Months.
FARLEY pleaded GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Twelve Months.
EVERETT— NOT GUILTY .
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
COLLIER pleaded GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Twelve Months.
EDWARD DOWLING . I am a haberdasher, and live in Little Queen-street, Lincoln's-inn-fielcls. On Saturday, 14th Feb., Wharton came to my shop, about half-past 8 o'clock in the evening—he asked for two dozen shirt buttons—they came to threepence—he tendered a shilling to my sister—she handed it to me, and I tried it in the detector—I found it bad, I returned it to Wharton, and asked him where he got it—he said from his mother—I asked him where she lived—he said in Parker-street—I told him to take it to her, and tell her it was bad—he went out, I followed him—he went towards Parker-street, but he stood in a doorway, and waited a few minutes; he saw the coast was clear, he then joined Collier—they conversed together, and walked down Holborn to Mr. Stokes's—they both looked in the shop;
Wharton then went in, and Collier moved a few paces off, and waited—I then went into Mr. Stokes's shop, and asked what money Wharton had givenhim—he said a sixpence—I told Mr. Stokes to secure him, and I went out and took Collier—I brought him into the shop—Wharton said he did not know him—an officer was sent for, and they were given into custody—some bad money was found in the waistband of Collier's trowsers.
RICHARD STOKES . I am a tobacconist, and live in High Holborn. On 14th Feb., Wharton came for a pennyworth of tobacco, he gave me a sixpence—I received information from the last witness, and I put the sixpence in a small box on the counter—it was a bad one—Wharton was not allowed to leave the shop—Mr. Dowling went and brought in Collier—Wharton said he did not know him—they were given into custody.
GEORGE DAVIS (police-sergeant, E 1). I and another policeman were called to Mr. Stokes's shop—I took Collier—I found twenty-three counterfeit sixpences in the waistband of his trowsers behind—he did not say a word.
Wharton. I never saw this prisoner before.
WHARTON— GUILTY . Aged 15.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MARIA PHILIPE . I am barmaid, at the Dover Castle, in Weymouth Mews. On 16th Feb. the prisoner came thefe with a bottle, about half-past 7 o'clock in the evening—she asked for a quartern of rum—I put the rum in the bottle—she tendered a half crown in payment—she threw it on the counter—I saw it was bad—I took it up and threw it on a table by the side of me—I returned the rum back from the bottle into the measure—the prisoner taid she did not know the half crown was bad; and she said, "Perhaps you will say this is bad?"—she took another half crown from her pocket, and put it down—I saw that that was bad—I took it up and put it with the other—there was a man near to the prisoner—he had come in just before her, and asked for half a pint of porter, for which he paid a penny—he was afterwards taken into custody—when I found the two half crowns were bad, I sent for an officer, and the prisoner was taken into custody—I gave the half crowns to the officer—I made the prisoner empty her pockets in the parlour—I did not put my hand in her pockets—she produced a good half crown, and 1 1/4 d. in copper—I allowed the prisoner to go—the man was waiting outside—I told the policeman to take him, which he did, and brought him in the house—a half sovereign, two half crowns, and seven shillings were found on him, all bad—some rather angry words passed between him and the prisoner—he swore he did not know her—I had seen the man in the house before with another party who had passed bad money, and I knew him again.
Prisoner. Q. I asked you to detect it, and you refused; I offered you another half crown. A. I had no "detector," but I saw it was bad by the edge.
SIMON PURE (policeman, D 124.) I was called into the Dover Castle, and saw the prisoner there—I took her into custody—I received two bad half crowns from the last witness—there was a man outside, in the Mews—he was taken, and committed for trial.
THOMAS DARKE (policeman, D 214.) I went to the Dover Castle on 16th Feb. and assisted in taking the prisoner to the station—she was put in a cell with the searcher, and Mrs. Bridge came outside and gave me a good half crown and 1 1/4 d.
Prisoner's Defence. I had the three half crowns given to me to take a lodging, and buy myself a pair of boots; I never saw the man that was taken into custody in my life.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MARIA PHILIPE . I am barmaid at the Dover Castle. On the night of 16th Feb., when the prisoner in the last case was given into custody, this prisoner came in before the woman came in—he appeared rather intoxicated, and threw down a penny over the counter into the room—he asked for half a pint of beer—he drank the beer, and remained there while the woman uttered the two half crowns—the woman dropped some money, and the prisoner said, "You are like me dropping money"—she made some observation that it was no business of his—I sent for an officer to give the woman into custody—the prisoner went out of the house—I went out with the officer to press the charge against the woman, and I saw the prisoner at some little distance from the house, standing by a stable, apparently hiding—I suppose that was a quarter of an hour after I had sent for the officer.
Prisoner. Q. You said I was hiding? A. You were standing in the dark—I never knew you to offer me a bad shilling—I said I had no charge against you, only on suspicion.
SIMON PURE (policeman, D 124.) I was called to the Dover Castle—when I came out I found the prisoner three or four yards from the door, standing still—he walked away—I said, "Stop, I want you"—he said, "I know nothing about the woman"—I had not said anything to him about the woman before that—he said so a great many times—I told him I must take him into custody and search him—he said he would not be searched—I took hold of him, he resisted, and I got the assistance of a civilian, and got him into the public-house—I searched him, and found a bad half sovereign wrapped in paper in his waistcoat pocket, two half crowns and seven shillings bad, and some good silver.
Prisoner. Q. It was a quarter of an hour before you came when you were sent for? A. Yes.
WILLIAM WEBSTER . This half sovereign is bad—the two half crowns are bad—two of these shillings are of George the Third, and are bad—one is of William the Fourth, and is bad, and four of them are of Victoria, all bad, and from the same mould.
Prisoner. I was standing at the public-house door the whole time till the officer came; I had an opportunity of throwing the money away if I knew it was bad, and I might have been a mile away; I picked it up in the Mews.
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Twelve Months.
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS CHAMBERS . I am an oilman, and live in Aldgate. On Wednesday, 4th Feb., the prisoner came, about half-past 6 o'clock in the evening, for a quarter of an ounce of tobacco, it came to 3/4 d.—he tendered me a 4d.-piece—I
gave him change, and laid the 4d.-piece on one side, as I had suspicion it was bad, having some more customers there—the prisoner went out, and after some time I marked the 4d.-piece, and wrapped it in paper—on Saturday, 7th Feb., the prisoner came again—he had a quarter of a pound of soap, and gave me a counterfeit sixpence—I asked him if he had any more—he said, "No"—an officer was passing the door, I called him in, and gave the prisoner in charge—I gave him the 4d.-piece and the sixpence.
Prisoner's Defence. I was not in the shop on Wednesday night at all; I have a witness here to prove it, Miss Weston.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Six Months.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES FRIEND HARDY . I am in the employ of Mr. Arthur Varden, a member of the Stock Exchange, having a box or stand there; as his clerk, I had permission to go in and out of the Stock Exchange. On 2nd Feb. I went there, on Mr. Varden's business, about half past 10 o'clock—I had a great coat on, and my gloves were in the pocket of it—I took it off and hung it up in the gallery near Mr. Varden's box—I went to the same place about half past 12 and it was gone—my coat and gloves have been since shown to me by the officer Haydon, about a fortnight back—my coat was woith 4l. 15s.
MICHAEL HAYDON (City policeman.) In consequence of information I watched in the neighbourhood of the Stock Exchange on Monday 9th Feb.—I saw the prisoner at a little after 3 o'clock at the corner of Capel-court, Bartholomew-lane—he stayed there a few minutes—he had some letters, circulars, or papers in his hand—I watched him—I had no other officer with me at first; I was afterwards joined by Thain—I followed the prisoner round to the Hercules-passage entrance—I did not go in, but he did—I remained in the neighbourhood, and at the expiration of half an hour I saw the prisoner again in the doorway of Hercules-passage—he remained a few minutes at the corner of the passage and went away—I traced him to 2, Great Trinity-lane—I remained outside for a short time, and after making some inquiries I went to the house—the prisoner lodged there; he came down stairs to me in the parlour at the rear of the shop—I told him I was an officer, and for certain reasons I wished to ask him how and where he had spent his time during that afternoon—I said I assumed he was a respectable young man, and he would have no objection to tell me—he said, "Certainly not; I left here about 3 this afternoon, and went through St. Paul's Churchyard and along Fleet-street nearly as far as Temple-bar, and then came straight home"—he said he had been nowhere else—I asked him if he had been in the neighbourhood of the Bank of England—he said he had walked once round the Royal Exchange after he came from Fleet-street—I asked him if he had been in the Stock Exchange that afternoon—he said, no, he had never been there but once in his life, which was about a week ago to warm his hands—I told him I should charge him on suspicion of having stolen a number of coats which had been stolen from the Stock Exchange in the last three weeks—he said, "Very well, I am innocent"—I asked him if he had any duplicates of coats in the house—he said, "You had better search and see"—I told him I should do
so—he then said, "It will, perhaps, save you some trouble if I tell you the truth, tell you what I have got; I am guilty to a certain extent, but I have been partly drawn into it; I have got a great coat, and two duplicates of two other great coats that I bought of a young man that I have occasionally net when I have been looking for a situation; I will give you the coat and the two duplicates, and you will have no further trouble"—I went up stairs with him to a back room on the second floor, and in a box that he said was his, and the key of which I found upon him, I found this coat that I have since shown to Mr. Hardy—I observed the coat that the prisoner wore that afternoon when I saw him about the Stock Exchange—I found that coat in the room—I found in the pocket of it seven circulars of Reynolds Newspaper, and I found on them the names of Bates and Bell in pencil—I took the prisoner to the station—on the following day I found some gloves, which have since been claimed by Mr. Hardy, in the same box where I found the coat—I had the key of that box from the prisoner—I kept it, and when I returned I found the box locked, and there I found the gloves.
CHARLES THAIN (City policeman). I received information from Mr. Dixey, on 9th Feb. in consequence of which I went to Capel-court—I saw the prisoner standing in the doorway of the Alliance—he had some letters or circulars in his hand—he went round to Hercules-passage—he waited in the entrance of the Stock Exchange for some time, and then went in—I followed him with Haydon.
WILLIAM DIXEY . I am one of the waiters of the Stock Exchange, and also a constable of the city—I received directions from the managers of the Stock Exchange to look out about the Stock Exchange—I knew the person of the prisoner—I have seen him repeatedly—the first time I saw him at the Stock Exchange is about a month ago, as nearly as I can recollect—he then entered the Stock Exchange by the New Court door, about a quarter past 4 o'clock in the day—he made his way into the house, and I saw no more of him that day—about a week afterwards I saw him again—he then came out of the Stock Exchange at the Capel-court door—that was all I saw of him that day—I saw him again on the 4th Feb—he came out of the house and returned into the house again—he made his way to one of the fire-places and stood there, warming his hands—I did not have any complaint directly from Mr. Hardy, but I have received complaints from gentlemen of the loss of their coats—the first time was about three weeks or a month before—I saw Mr. Hardy on the day after his coat was lost—he did not make any complaint to me—he was merely speaking to the members of the house about the loss of his coat—on the following day the prisoner came in to warm his hands at the Capel-court entrance, about a quarter past 12—I called Mr. Wilkinson, my brother officer and waiter, and he went and spoke to the prisoner—I then lost sight of the prisoner—I saw him again on Monday the 9th—he came in at the Capel-court entrance, about a quarter past 3 in the afternoon—he had some papers or circulars in his hand—I spoke to him and asked him what he was going to do with those papers he had got in his hand—he said, "You had better let me deliver these papers myself; you won't know who the parties are that they belong to"—I said, "Very well, do so"—he did not enter the Stock Exchange, but passed me in the lobby—he came out, and went in at No. 2, Capel-court, a house let out in offices—I informed Payne.
HENRY WILKINSON . I am another of the waiters at the Stock Exchange, and a constable—I have seen the prisoner twice at the Stock Exchange—the first occasion was about a mouth ago—in consequence of what Dixey said on
5th of Feb., I looked at the prisoner—I saw he did not belong to the house—I went and spoke to him, and asked him whose clerk he was—he said, "Mr. Bates'"—Fsaid, "And your name"—he said, "Bates"—I said, "I see Mr. Bates is your father"—he said, "No; Mr. Bates is my uncle—I am his nephew"—I referred to my book of clerks and found there was no clerk in the house named Bates—I communicated with Mr. Bates, of the firm of Bates and Bell—I saw no more of the prisoner that day—I kept a look out for him—I saw him again on the 9th, between 3 and 4.
JOSIAH BATES . I am partner in the late firm of Bates and Bell, members of the Stock Exchange—the prisoner is not a relation of mine—he was never my clerk or servant—I never saw him—he is not my nephew—I am not his uncle.
(The prisoner was further charged with having been before convicted.)
WILLIAM BATE . I was a constable of the Metropolitan Police, in June last. I saw the prisoner tried in this Court—I produce the certificate—(read—Convicted June, 1851, of larceny, as a servant, and confined three months.)
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months.
(There were seven other indictments against the prisoner.)
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months.
GUILTY . Aged 46.— Confined Three Months.
MARY TOPPER . I am the wife of Thomas Robert Topper. On 7th Feb. I was in Newgate-market, about 8 o'clock in the evening; I saw the prisoner in the poultry market, he was very close to me—I had a basket in my hand, and in it was a purse with 16s. in it—I was about to make a purchase—the prisoner thrust his hand into my basket, took the purse out, and went off—I told my husband, who was pretty near; he ran after him, and I ran—the prisoner ran into Paternoster-row, and there he was taken—my husband took the purse out of his hand—this is it.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Had you ever seen the prisoner before? A. No; I saw him again in Paternoster-row, after the policeman had taken him—I am sure he is the person, or else how could I have pointed him out?—I am quite confident of him—there were plenty of lights to see him by.
THOMAS ROBERT TOPPER . I was in Newgate-market with my wife, and in consequence of what she said, I ran after the prisoner—he was caught, and I came up to him—I took this purse out of his left hand—I am certain he is the person from whose hand I took the purse.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Four Months.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, February 25th, 1852.
PRESENT—The Right Hon. the LORD MAYOR; Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Mr. Justice CROMPTON; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Sir JOHN MUSGROVE, Bart., Ald.; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. Ald. FINNIS; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq.
Before Mr. Justice Williams and the Third Jury.
311. BERTO MAYO ARGENTI and FRANCISCO MORATI , feloniously assaulting Peter Getland, upon the high seas, and wounding him, with intent to murder him.—2nd COUNT, with intent to do him grievous bodily harm.
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES COLWELL . I am a mariner. In Jan., 1850, I shipped as steward on board the bark Alberta, at Liverpool—she was an English vessel, and sailed under English colours—Captain Benson, a Scotchman, was the master of the bark, and the shipping-agents at Liverpool were Messrs. Wilkie and Simpson—the prisoners shipped, as able seamen, at the same time that I did, and the deceased Peter Getland also—if I am not very much mistaken, he signed the articles next to me, or next to the cook; I know his name was very near first on the articles—Argenti went on board the vessel by the name of Berto Urgent; and we used to call Morati Frank, or Frank Murray, and sometimes Antonie—we left Liverpool on 30th Jan.—on 15th April, when we were nearing the American coast, there was a bit of a row forward, between Morati, from what I see first of all, and Peter Getland—they were fighting—I told the captain, who was at breakfast, and he and the mate came out of the cabin, and they and the rest of the men interfered to separate them—one of the men, I cannot say who, sung out that they had got their knives open—I saw Argenti interfering in the fight; and when some of them sung out that they had their knives, the captain ordered him to be brought aft—I think he was fighting with the rest of them, because they all interfered—I think he was fighting for Morati, as well as I could see—I think he had a stick in his hand, but I know he was fighting, and his mouth was bloody—the captain ordered both Argenti and Morati to be brought aft—they were brought aft, with a great deal of struggling—they were very obstreperous; we could not get them aft very well—I took a large knifefrom inside Argenti's shirt, and a smalt pocket-knife, what they call a jack-knife, from Morati; and the prisoners were then made fast to the mizen, by the captain's orders—the whole ship's company assisted in doing that—Getland assisted—they remained fast to the mizen about an hour or an hour and a half—they then begged the mate's pardon, and said they would not do it any more, if he would let them go—the mate was Mr. Gordon Gold—he set them at liberty, at their request—the captain was asleep at the time—two days after that we were at anchor at Mobile Bay, which is on the coast of Alabama—we were about twenty-five miles from the town, and about five from shore either side—the captain went on shore on the evening of 16th, or morning of 17th—on the evening of 17th, about 10 minutes past 7 o'clock, the prisoners were sitting on the night-heads on the top-gallant forecastle, which is right forward, about six feet above the rest of the deck—Getland was sitting on the wind lass on the larboard side smoking—the windlass is on the deck, just abaft, and below the forecastle Getland was about six or seven feet under where the prisoners were—Getland was talking me about boarding-houses in Liverpool, and Argenti walked along theforesastle, came over his head, and caught him
over the head with the sharp edge of the axe—Morati was just along side of him, not quite half a step back—the axe struck Getland close to the crown of his head—the wound was about six inches in length, and it penetrated to the brain, for I saw the brain on the axe—there was a great deal of blood flowed, and Wilson carried him aft—as soon as I gave the alarm Argenti made a blow at me with the axe—the proper place for the axe to be kept was in the galley—it belonged to the cook, and nobody used it, except the steward might take it to break a bone sometimes—there was no occasion for it on the forecastle—the prisoners then escaped into the foretop, and remained there all night, and with the ropes they made a sort of bulk-head, or battery, to prevent our getting at them—during the night a knife was thrown out of the foretop, I could not say by which of them—I did not see it thrown—I heard it fall, and it was picked up next morning—no one was in the foretop but the prisoners—it was my knife—we chased them out of the foretop, and asked them to come down, but they would not—a revenue-cutter came on board of us, and the captain of the cutter threatened to fire at them if they did not come down—he gave them five minutes, and then they came down—one of them, I think it was Morati, said they would come down for an American man, but they would not come down for a b—Englishman—one of them said they should only get about a month or so in America for killing a man—I think it was Morati said that; but it is so long ago, it has rather slipped my memory—they both speak English as well as any foreigners do; I think Morati speaks it best—Getland was taken on shore on the morning of 18th, and I did not see him again—this is the axe (produced).
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Had not Argenti been a quiet peaceable man before this? A. Yes; I had always seen him very quiet and very sociable—I never saw him do anything wrong before—the prisoners were the only foreigners on board, except Getland, who was a Swede, or Norwegian—the crew had not, as I heard, been teasing the prisoners about being foreigners.
BENJAMIN WILSON . I was a seaman on board the Alberta; she was a British ship, and left Liverpool in Jan.—I remember Getland having a quarrel with Morati on 15th April, and Argenti interfered to prevent the row—there was very little fighting—the prisoners were afterwards fastened to the mast hy order of the captain, and released in a short time—I was on board on 17th, but did not see Getland struck—I heard Colwell call out, "Murder!"and found Getland leaning against the larboard rails inside, with his head down and bleeding very much—the two prisoners were then on the topgallant forecastle about five feet from me—Getland's forehead was cut open, and was bleeding very much, the bone was split—he was taken ashore next day, and I did not see any more of him—we remained there till 24th April, and then went to Quebec—the prisoners were there taken into custody and brought to England.
MORATI— GUILTY on 2nd Count. —Aged 26./
ARGENTI— GUILTY on 2nd Count. —Aged 30.
Transported for Ten Years.
312. HENRY WOOLF and ISAAC LYONS were indicted for unlawfully obtaining goods on credit within three months of their bankruptcy, under the false colour and pretence of carrying on business in the ordinary course of trade. (See Fourth Session, page 363.)
MESSRS. BALLANTINE and BAGGALAY conducted the Prosecution.
the proceedings in the bankruptcy of Woolf and Lyons—the date of the petition for adjudication is 19th Nov., 1851; they were adjudicated bankrupts on that same day—the bankruptcy is still depending—Mr. Hatton Hamer Stansfeldt was appointed the official assignee.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. I believe you were in Court at the last Session when the prisoners were tried for a supposed fraud upon Ellis and Everington? A. I was; I heard the Jury acquit them.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Did you hear the circumstances of that trial? A. I was present; it was a case of obtaining goods from Ellis and Everington—I think the amount was somewhere about 700l.; I am not sure as to the amount—the cases of Messrs. Pawson and Messrs. Foot were incidentally referred to, but formed no part of the case.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Were not all the facts of Ellis and Everington's case gone into? A. I cannot possibly tell that; a great many facts were gone into, but whether they were all or not I cannot tell.
JOSEPH PARRINGTON . I am an accountant, living in King-street, Cheapside. I was employed by the defendants' creditors to investigate the state of their affairs—I saw them both on 5th Nov.; they did not at that interview go into any explanation—I saw them, and they then stated that they had commenced business subsequently in Oct., 1850, with a capital of about 400l., but that has been corrected since—I learnt from them, and from an examination of their books, what their debts were—I had conversation with them afterwards about it—I found that their debts were within a trifle of 5,492l.—they represented nothing to me about their assets then—their stock was subsequently sold—it was valued at the cost-price as given by the bankrupts to an assistant of mine—that might have been tested by reference to the invoices—I did not test it; we assumed it to be correct—the stock sold for 1,026l. or thereabouts—that was 45 per cent, less than the alleged cost-price—there were goods at Muncaster and Wane's, the pawnbrokers; that was not in addition to the stock-part of the amount of the stock consisted of goods at Muncaster and Warre's—they were stated at that time to amount to about 789l., from which we deducted the advances made on the goods, amounting to about 546l.—that left the available assets in the hands of Muncaster and Warre at about 832l. the bad debts ascertained at that time amounted to about 50l.—I found a sum of money unaccounted for; as far as we proceeded, allowing for losses upon certain sales they had made, there was about 1,000l. unaccounted for at that time; the losses on sales as ascertained from them and their books was about 1,000l.—under the bankruptcy these items have been corrected—they told me that they had sold to certain wholesale houses at a loss—the deficiency between the debts and assets was about 3,000l.; the domestic and trade expenses and money drawn out by the partners was about 1,400l. as then ascertained, but finding that the estate was going to bankruptcy we did not follow it out—I state that in justice to the prisoners, that they could not account for it further, we stopped there.
Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. In fact you did not as fully investigate the deficiency between the debts and assets as you would if you had been investigating a bankrupt's schedule? A. As between the assets and the debts, that was finished, but the explanation of the deficiency ceased—they gave me every assistance—they were with me and my clerks with their books, and their clerks for about a week, giving their explanations
—they explained the pledging to me—I could ascertain in the books what goods had been pledged, and what goods had been redeemed—I have ascertained since the bankruptcy, that the money received is entered under the words "Loan," and "Borrowed," and the redeemings under the word "Silk," and "Silkman"—from those two words I have been able to ascertain what goods were deposited, and what redeemed—I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of that—the pledgings amounted to 1,624l., and the redeemings to 1,105l.—the trade assignees sold the stock by private contract to a Mr. Myers, at 45 per cent, below the cost price—I did not test the cost price by the invoices, but I requested a creditor to go down and look at them—it would have been extremely difficult to test manufactured stock; parasols and umbrellas are made up of different things; I should have had to ascertain the cost price of the cane and silk, and the amount paid for labour—I believe the account the bankrupts gave of the cost price was generally correct—the stock was sold to Myers at 1,026l.—the goods at Muncaster and Warre's were not included in that—the invoice price of the goods sold to Myers was 1,871l., as given by the bankrupts—I believe that included a quantity of cane that was on the premises—I found 85l. 19s. worth of cane on the premises—I cannot tell when it was bought, or whether it was paid for—that is included in the 1,800l. odd—there was household furniture and fixtures, independent of the stock; that I valued at 86l.—I am not aware at what price that was sold—I put a medium price, what it was worth as it stood there—there were also some pianofortes there, which with certain trade furniture, was taken at 182l.—the goods at Muncaster and Warre's I valued at 239l. above the advances—there was 20l. or 30l. worth of goods at Messrs. Pick ford and Roberts—they have stated the amount of goods pledged at about 900l. in their balance-sheet, instead of 789l.—the bad and doubtful debts are taken at 335l. under the bankruptcy—the amount of trade and household expenses, and money drawn out by the partners was 1,400l. as then ascertained—it has been altogether altered under the bankruptcy—I have not made any inquiries myself since; I have not been at all employed under the bankruptcy, except to sell the stock—I put down about 600l. for trade expenses; I believe Woolf drew out 150l. for his private expenses, it was stated at 270l.; and Mr. Lyons 359l.—the application of it I do not know—Lyons has a family—the bankrupts gave me the names of the parties to whom they had sold at a loss, and guessed at the amounts; they did not refer at all to their books then—this is the list of the parties as they gave them to me (producing it), but I have ascertained that the losses there are greatly exaggerated—I did not refer to the books when they gave me that statement, to ascertain the profit or loss on each transaction—it has been ascertained from the books since, but not by me—I believe, under the bankruptcy, the loss has been ascertained at 1,360l. 10s. 10l.
Q. Will you tell me if our figures are correct here to-day? How you make out a deficiency which you cannot account for of 1,000l., because I make up just 5,400l.; I take 187l. as the value of the goods, 100l. as representing the value of the household furniture, 182l. for the pianofortes, 350l. for the goods pledged, 335l. for bad and doubtful debts, 600l. for trade expenses, 270l. for the private expenses of Woolf, 350l. for Lyons, and 1,360l. for the losses on sales; that makes a sum of 5,425l., does it not, taking the figures roughly? A. You have mixed in your statement two distinct accounts; you have mixed up the account that I give as to the state of their affairs when I investigated them, and the state of things as shown by the bankrupts' balance-sheet, put in under the bankruptcy—I will give you my account of it; I charge the bankrupts with a deficiency of 3,056l., the difference between thes
debts and assets, and I charge them with 400l. which they then stated to be the amount of their capital; those figures together amount to 3,450l.—I then give them credit for 1,479l. expenses and sums drawn out by the partners, and for 1,008l. the losses then assumed to have taken place on their sales; that left, as I stated, 1,000l. at that time unaccounted for—that does not take in the bad and doubtful debts—it does include the pianofortes at their present value, the household furniture at 86l., the stock at 1,875l., and the pledged goods at 239l.—that was the best account that the bankrupts could give at that time.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Let us understand what your exact position was with reference to these persons? A. I was called in on 5th Nov. by their creditors to ascertain the state of their affairs—I attended a meeting of creditors on 19th Nov., when one of them proposed 5s. in the pound; the creditors who had before stated they would make them bankrupts, then finally determined to do so, and did so, I believe, on that day—the business was taken out of my hands after that—I know of no variation in the account since, except that they have discovered that the amount of goods pledged exceeded what was stated—as regards the debts and assets, it agrees with their balance sheet.
COURT. Q. You say they determined to make them bankrupts; it was not a hostile bankruptcy, was it? A. Yes, they gave an assignment, and also a declaration of insolvency, when the creditors wished it.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. You have stated that you ascertained from the books what had been pledged; did you, in point of fact, ascertain what goods had been pledged, or only the amounts they had obtained? A. They stated to me the amounts that had been obtained, not the goods that were pledged—I believe the books do not contain that—I have not seen anything in them to show that—they read to me from the books what were pledged—they did not explain the terms to me then—I did not ask them, I merely asked them the amount, and they told me, but the amount turned out afterwards to be 100l. more in their favour.
HATTON HAMER STANSFIELD . I am one of the official assignees of the Court of Bankruptcy. I was appointed assignee in this case immediately upon the adjudication, and have since had all the bankrupts' books in my possession—I have been in communication with them from time to time—I ascertained from them that they commenced business on 12th Oct., 1850, and carried it on up to 19th Nov., 1851—from their balance-sheet it appears that Lyons' capital on commencing business was 38l. 1s., and Woolf's 200l., in addition to 300l. borrowed—money borrowed is not capital, but debt—the stock-in-trade at the time of the bankruptcy was valued by the bankrupts at 2,038l. 15s. 11d., and the surplus on goods in pledge at 332l. 4s. 5d—the umbrella sticks and pianos are included in the stock—there was also 48l. 9s. 1d. in outstanding bills in their hands, which they delivered upas part of their assets—they represented their good debts at 19l. 3s. 4d.; doubtful debts, 215l. 12s. 2d.; and bad debts, 120l.—there was no cash delivered up, either as being in their hands or at their bankers—the amount of creditors' debts due to parties is 5,476l. 11s—that appears on their balance-sheet.
Q. I want you to inform the Court how they account for the difference between 2,654l. 14s. 11d. assets and the amount owing to creditors? A. Losses by goods' account, 1,701l. 3s. 2d.; sundry losses, 212l. 14s. 4d. (consisting of bad debts, 120l. 0s. 1d.; repairs of premises, 11l. 14s. 9d.; and law expenses, 81l. 2s. 6d.; trade expenses, 527l. 5s. 8d.; and personal expenses, Woolf, 157l. 14s. 1d.; Lyons, 458l. 1s. 11d.; that makes both sides balance
within 20l., and that discrepancy arises from the creditors holding security for debts owing by the bankrupts to them, amounting to 199l. 4s., and the property, as valued by the bankrupts, in the hands of those creditors, 220l.—they put down in their balance-sheet 20l. more than the property was really worth—I cannot state when these losses on sales commenced, but taking the amount of the goods purchased, and from that deducting the amount of stock in hand, the loss would appear at 10 1/2 per cent, in the whole course of their dealing—their goods' account shows the price at which they purchased.
COURT. Q. You make that account after having investigated the whole of the hooks? A. Yes; the result of what they sold, what they manufactured, and what they bought—I took the cost price, the cost of manufacture, then the stock, and gave them credit for the expenses; and the general result of it was that during the whole time they carried on trade there was a loss of 10 1/2 per cent.
BAGGALAT. Q. In Feb., 1851, does it appear that they had some bills outstanding to Messrs. Foot and Co.? A. Yes; two bills drawn by Messrs. Foot, and accepted by the bankrupts, for goods sold and delivered; one for 299l. 6s., due on 28th March; and the other for 412l. 7s., due on 1st March, both at four months—they were prepaid on 17th Feb.—it appears that on 15th Feb. the bankrupts discounted, with Messrs. Brown, two bills; one for 442l. 8s., on Messrs. Foster, Porter, and Co., for goods sold to that house by the bankrupts; and another for 184l. 12s., on Moss Davids, by the bankrupts—by their cash book they appear to have taken up that last bill; it represents no real transaction; the largest payment made by Moss Davids to the bankrupts is 35l., and their payments are all in cash—on 4th Dec, at a meeting at my office, at which were present the official assignee, and Mr. Parker, the solicitor, Lyons gave me an account, as he said, of the whole of the goods pledged by them—their books do not contain any record of the goods pawned; it is only entered as "moneys received" when they were pledged, and "moneys paid" when they were redeemed—until 10th May they were entered under the title of "silkman;" and on 16th Aug. the term in the cash book is, "loan repaid:" and so it continues to the close—on 15th Feb., 1851, 24l. 5s. 6d. was received for goods pledged—it is entered as "Loan, L. Woolf;" and the cash is credited by L. Woolf, 24l. 5s. 6d.—there is another pawning on 19th Feb., and 20l. received—(I am reading from the account rendered to me by Lyons)—the cash-book does not mention that account at all—the amount of goods pledged, as stated by Lyons, was 1,892l. 19s. 3d.; that includes the whole of the pledgings during the course of their dealing—the number of instances of pledging, from 1st Sept. till the close, is fifteen—this paper (produced) was delivered into my office by the bankrupts, with others; it contains the stock-taking—I cannot tell whose handwriting that is.
MR. STANSFELDT (continued). This paper is in the form of a debtor and creditor account—"Stock debtor—per contra creditor—July 19, stock debtor to debts outstanding, 1,536l. 13s. 1d.; acceptances outstanding, 2,788l. 1s. 7l."—those are the only items on the crebit side—on the credit side there is—"July 19, book debts, 345l. 11s. 6d.; by cash, Commercial Bank," which means in the hands of the Commercial Bank, "234l. 16s.; and by cash, Brown and Co's, bank, 102l. 17s.; stock, 2,856l. 7s. 9 1/2 d.; cash in hand, 21l. 14s. 5 1/2.; fixtures, &c." left blank—there are pencil marks,
showing the result of the addings up—on the debtors' side it is 4,324l. 14s., 8d. and on the creditors' side 3,561l. 7s. 2d., leaving a balance against stock of 763l. 7s. 6d.—at the close of the bankrupt's dealings, they appear by their balance sheet to have owed to Foot and Co., 2,312l. 16s.—385l. 0s. 7d. to Messrs. Pawsonand Co.; and 511l. 1s. 5d. to Ellis and Everington.
Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. With reference to the balance in favour of Messrs. Foot, you say it was 2,312l. at the time of the bank-ruptcy, in Oct.—was not that much less than it had been at any time within the preceding six months? A. I must refer to the ledger, which will take some time—the amount of goods had in Sept. was 450l.—on 9th Sept. there was a bill given at three months for 436l. 1s.—and on 7th Oct. a bill at four months for 487l. 7s.—neither of those were paid—(MR. HUDDLESTON here referred to an account made out by Messrs. Foot, and admitted as correct by MR. BALLANTINE, by which the account appeared at 2,317l. in May—2,600l. in June—2,760l. in July, and 2,609l. in Sept.)—I see by the bill-book that there was a bill for 139l. 16s., drawn by W. H. Newton on the bankrupts, dated June 15th, 1851, at four months, due on 16th Oct.—it does not state there that it was for ginghams; it is so entered in the bought ledger—it appears they were in the habit of dealing with Newton, and that this bill was given in payment of goods—here is entered, also, a bill for 68l. 11s. on 18th Oct., from Van Praagh—I asked Lyons for an explanation of the term "silkman" in the books, and he gave it directly—this is the account he gave me, which I took down at the time—I ascertained that the items he furnished me with, were in the cash-book: but upon a subsequent examination within the last few days, on a more particular examination of the cash-book, I found that goods were redeemed amounting to about 250l. more than Lyons then stated—no portion of the goods had been pledged before the partnership—I ascertained the dates of all—I find by the books that between 1st Sept and 24th Oct., there are five instances of redeeming, amounting to about 130l.; those are the last before the bankruptcy—there are four redeemings in Oct, and in the same period pledgings to the amount of 150l.—I see that in Oct. goods to the amount of 16l. 1s. 6d. were purchased of Thomas Green, and paid for by cash on 28th Oct.—they were supplied in different parcels during Oct.—there are goods, also, to the amount of 66l. 7s. 6d. bought of Green, in Sept., of which 61l. 10s. was supplied on 29th Sept.—they were paid for thus, on 6th Sept. cash 5l., 25th, Sept cash 25l., and 29th Sept. 36l.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Just refer to the pawning account; do you find, on 29th Sept., silk pawned to the amount of 30l.? A. There is 29l. 14s. received on 29th Sept. for pawning, and on 15th Oct. I find silks to the amount of 44l. 11s. and 30l., making altogether 75l. 14s. 10d.—on looking through the pawning account, 100l.-worth of property seems by that book to have been redeemed in Oct.—I find no trace whatever of what became of those goods that were so redeemed—I do not know what has become of them—I cannot say whether there were umbrella sticks found in the stock at the time of the bankruptcy.
JOSEPH JAMES FOOT . I am a silk manufacturer, in partnership with my father and brother, in Spital-square. I know the two defendants—I first became acquainted with Woolf in Oct., 1850, I think, but I was acquainted with Lyons before—he introduced me to Woolf, and we had dealings with them in Oct., 1850, and Jan., 1851—in Oct. we supplied them with umbrella silk to the amount of 412l. 7s.; in Nov., 633l. 8d.; in Dec, 713l. 11s. 4d.—they paid in cash and bills for some of them, one bill by Burnell, which
was afterwards taken up by them in the beginning of the year—I made inquiries of themes to their capital—Lyons had told me when Woolf joined him that Woolf had brought in some thousands of pounds—they wished to refer a party to me in Jan. for me to vouch for their respectability, and I told Lyons I could not, unless I knew what capital they had—I then asked him if they had 2,000l. in the business—his answer was, "Considerably over," and I gave them the reference they asked for—I told the party who was referred to us what they had said—we continued supplying them with goods after that—about that time I inquired of Lyons as to the amount of their capital, and he told me his partner had brought in some thousands of pounds and had more money, but he did not wish it to he brought into the business, as he, Lyons, did not wish to pay interest on Woolfs money—the amount they owed us in Feb., before the 17th, was 2,190l. 12s.; that was only secured by their own acceptances, and not the whole of it—at that time they begged to have more goods, and we did not wish to increase the account; we told them we did not like to go any further—they then said there were certain bills running, we had no occasion to be at ait anxious about the account, the money was perfectly safe; but if it would relieve our minds they would take up the acceptances which were running—we took them two of the bills amounting to 711l. 13s., for which they gave us a check, which was duly honoured—in the July following, as they had told me they were about taking stock, I said, "You have been taking stock, I hope it turns out to your satisfaction"—Lyons replied that it had turned out perfectly to their satisfaction, and they were in a better position than a good many men who held their heads a great deal higher than they did—the balance of the account at the end of July was 2,672l. 2s.; and in Aug., 2,609l. 15s.—there is no Sept. account, it is all one with the Oct.—up to Oct. 16th here is a Balance of 2,312l. 17s. 9d.—they applied for more goods afterwards, but we did not supply them—the last balance I have mentioned still remains unpaid—about a fortnight before the bankruptcy Lyons looked out goods to the amount of 500l., but we said we should not supply him with them without security—we did not supply them—they said they had been trying to get security, but could not—they told us two or three times they had, but they had not; and on 4th Nov., they both came to us together and told us they must stop payment—I spoke to them about what they had told us about their stock-taking—I required to see the balance-sheet of their stock-taking in July last—Woolf brought the papers, and I found from them that there was 700l. deficiency—I said they could not be much more deficient in the three months up to the present time, Nov.—they said they did not think they were, but they could not tell—on 10th Sept. we sold them four pieces of goods, amounting to 45l. 13s. 10d.—they must have been sold to Lyons, for Woolf never bought goods—to the best of my belief I sold them myself—I have seen two out of the four pieces at Muncaster and Warre's—they appear to have been pawned on the 12th—I next saw Lyons some days before 25th Sept.—he said he expected a buyer from Manchester, and requested me to send some goods on approbation; he said he would not buy them, but if he could sell any he would, and the rest he should return—on 25th, Fry, their clerk, came to the warehouse, and from what he stated we delivered him sixteen pieces of goods, value 151l. 9d.—I have seen seven of those pieces since at Muncaster and Warre's; they appear to have been pawned on 15th, 18th, and 20th Oct.—on 16th Oct. we sold the bankrupts a parcel of goods amounting to 76l. 14s. 9d., of which I have since seen one piece at Muncaster and Warre's, which appears to have been pawned
two days afterwards, the 18th—the defendants said they made the purchases for making umbrellas; they were umbrella silks, and were not fit for any other purpose—I should say we found somewhere about 700l.-worth of our property at Muncaster and Warre's, not made up into umbrellas, but exactly in the state in which it was sold by us—I was appointed trade assignee—I went over part of the bankrupts' stock at their shop, and saw what the character of it was—there were no umbrella silks at all there—a great portion of the stock was umbrella and parasol sticks and some little silk, a small portion of cane, and a variety of ivory and bone mountings, which were not very saleable—the value of the stock was certainly considerably less than that put on it by the bankrupts—I have not seen all the stock, but I went through all the items—I stand a creditor for 2,000l. and odd.
Cross-examined. Q. How much have the bankrupts paid you in these fourteen months, in round numbers? A. I should say between 6,000l. and 7,000l. at a rough guess; not paid us, but we have sold them goods to that amount, minus the debt now due—I make the amount 7,648l. (casting it up)—that is the total of goods sold to them; that, deducting for the debt, leaves 5,336l. paid—in Sept. last they took goods of us to the amount of 507l.—they paid us in that month 845l. 7s., which we realised—in the month of Oct. they had about 200l.-worth of goods of us; and they paid us 282l. 15s.—I did not on 23rd Sept call at their place for the express purpose of telling them that I had got some silks which I thought would suit them, and request them to give me a look down; that was about the time they asked me to send them some goods on approbation—I might have said I had goods that would suit them—I cannot say whether I called on them on 23rd Sept., but I was there within a few days of the 25th—I should say I did not request them to come and see the goods, I will not swear positively—when they asked me to send the goods to their buyer, I might have said I had goods to suit them—I swear I did not go and invite them to purchase goods, because the account was heavier than we wished—it is the course of our trade to go and ask for orders—Lyons did not come to me to see the goods, he sent his man, Fry, on the 25th, saying their buyer was in London, and he wished the goods sent down to look at them—I have not seen the buyer from Manchester, or ascertained that he came for the goods—I swear that the order for the goods which Lyons' man came to see, was not in consequence of my going there to tell them I had some goods which I thought would suit them—it is usual for umbrella manufacturers to order their goods in the autumn for the spring season—I did not engage in the autumn of 1851, to supply the defendants with goods for the spring season to the amount of 4,000l.; they gave me an order for them, and I booked it—I have no minute of it here, but to the best of my recollection it must have been shortly after their stocktaking in Aug.—the 500l.-worth of goods which Lyons came to our ware-house and looked out, was not a portion of the goods for which I had booked the order for 4,000l.—I know that, because when we book an order we put by the goods for the parties; we did not put by these goods, they were goods which we had not agreed to furnish, but which we had booked on order for—Lyons said the 500l.-worth of goods would do to come out of his order, but we declined to furnish him with them—I should say it was then for the first time that we asked for security—Lyons told me he thought I was quite right to have security, and he would endeavour to get it for me—I saw him again three or four times—the security was to be for about 1,000l. or 2,000l. with reference to the general account—he told me on two different occasions he
had not found security; he did not come and tell me so, I went there—he came and told me if we insisted on security he must stop business, that was a day or two before the assignment—when they came to say they were insolvent, we sent for our attorney—I went to their warehouse that day, 4th Nov.—Lyons and Woolf went from our house, and I went with one of their clerks to take account of their stock—an attorney did not go with us, or join us there—there was no one there with the exception of our own servants, that I know of—Ellis and Everington's man was not there, he came in about an hour or an hour and a half after—I had not sent for him—our solicitor had sent a circular round by post, I think, to call a meeting for the next morning "I did not send a young man for Mr. Pawson—nobody made offers to purchase the stock while I was there—I saw Ellis's buyer there, I suppose he came to purchase goods in the usual way of business—I do not think Mr. Pawson's buyer was there; but I do not know him when I see him—I told the bankrupts it was quite right they should execute an assignment for the benefit of the creditors, which was done at Mr. Pawson's—the assignment was not there already cut and dried—I saw it executed; I was one of the trustees—I went from the bankrupts' warehouse to Mr. Pawson's, and met there Mr. Pawson and Mr. Howell, who is one of Messrs. Ellis's partners—I did not ask the bankrupts to sign a declaration of insolvency—Mr. Pawson, Mr. Howell, the two bankrupts, myself, I think Mr. Partington, Mr. Parker, and one or two others werepresent—I cannot say whether the bankrupts asked leave then to send for their attorney; they asked at our place, and our solicitor said he did not think there was any occasion for it at the present moment—they did not ask permission to do so, they asked if they should send for him—the bankrupts' stock was sold for 1,050l., being 45 per cent, less than the invoice price—the bankrupts never lent us money, they gave us a check for 150l. off their account, which I said if they wished back again they should have; I will undertake to say it was not to pay wages—I cannot say, without referring, whether we returned it—the goods sent on 2nd Sept. were on approbation—I made out an invoice of them, and sent it with the goods; this is the approbation-book (produced)—it is an account of all goods which go out of the place—we have no other book for booking goods sold—when they are returned they go into this book, if they are sold; and if they are not sold they go in here, and afterwards they are copied or posted into another—the purpose of keeping this book is to enter goods sent out on approbation—it is not a book I have been referring to before.
Q. You spoke of an order for 45l. 13s. 10d.; had you recommended those goods to them as goods that would suit them? A. I cannot say whether I did or not—I should say they came and looked them out—it was on 11th Sept., to the best of my belief—they came to our warehouse to look out those goods—I swear I did not call their attention to those goods, and recommend them to them in their trade, nor did I do so on 16th Oct.—I was not constantly in the habit of recommending them goods—on 16th Oct. they came and bought the goods of my brother, who is here; I was not present—I sold the goods on 10th Sept.—I did not produce goods for them without their coming for them—they came and asked for the goods, and I produced them.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. You are in the warehouse, and the goods are there? A. Yes; on the occasion of the different purchases they came to our place to look at the goods—I did not in any way solicit them to purchase; when I have called at their place I may have asked if anything was wanted, but with reference to these particular transactions they came or sent—they gave us the
150l. check on 29th March, 1851 (looking at the bankers pass-book)—they owed us at that time 1,900l.—in the following month they paid us another check, in part payment—we objected to give them further credit—we said we did not wish our credit to extend beyond 1,000l.—they did not pay for anything after they applied to us for the 600l. worth of goods—if we had supplied them with that, it would have left about 3,000l.
GEORGE WILKINSON FOOT . I am the brother of the last witness, and am a member of the same firm. On 15th Oct., Lyons came and asked for some low priced umbrella goods, low 24 inches—I am sure he asked for umbrella silks—I sold some to him—I have not seen them since—I know the mark on them—it is the number, the cost price, and the description.
Cross-examined. Q. What time of the day was this transaction? A. As far as I can recollect about 4 o'clock—it was certainly in the afternoon—I should certainly say I had not been to Lyons' house the day before—I never was there but about three times in my life—I never but once in my life solicited him to purchase goods—that was some months before he failed—it might have been in July, August, or September—the goods he purchased on 16th Oct. were three pieces at 1s. 10 1/2 d., three pieces at 1s. 11 1/2 d., and one piece at 2s. 7 1/2 d., they were all 24 inches—there were seven rolls—I recollect that he came to me without my having invited him before to come and see the goods—he came and asked for my brother first, and then offered to buy the goods.
WILLIAM ROLAND FRY , re-examined. I recollect going to Messrs. Foot's about Phillips's buyer—both the defendants were present when I was sent—they told me to say that Phillips's buyer, mentioning his name, Mr. Main-price, was there, waiting to look at the goods—I went and told them so, and brought back the goods—Mr. Mainprice was not there when I went with the message, he had just left—he came back again next afternoon—I believe a portion of the goods were sold to him—here is a sale entered—I cannot say what became of the rest, or whether I entered them under the head of "loan"—I do not recollect the date when Mr. Mainprice came—the transaction would not be entered on that day, because the goods would have to be made up—(Mr. Stansfield here stated that no account appeared in the books between 30th Aug. and 7th Oct.)
Cross-examined by MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Mr. Mainprice had been at Messrs. Woolf and Lyons' before they sent you to get the goods? A. Yes; Mr. Foot paid for the cab that was to take the goods from his place to our house—Mr. Mainprice did not come and select the goods that day—he did the next day—I did not see him go over the different articles and select them—I was not present—a portion of the goods I saw afterwards manufactured into parasols for Mr. Mainprice—they would not be entered in the books to the debit of Mr. Phillips until they had been manufactured—I should say these are the items; here is, "Oct. 15th, goods, 72l. 4s. 9d.;" and "Oct. 18th, 119l. 1s. 9d."—Phillips is debited with them—they were manufactured between the time the goods were selected, and the time when they are debited in the books—Woolf and Lyons had about forty or fifty workwomen—a few of them worked on the premises—I should say they had that number in Sept. and Oct., and about twenty in Nov.—the manufacture of parasols was going on during Sept. and Oct., and goods were being sent out to the different customers—from the commencement of Oct. to the 30th, manufactured goods were sent to Ellis and Everington to the amount of about 216l. 8s. 11d.—looking at the ledger I find that manufactured goods were sent out almost daily during Oct. up to the 30th—there were about 79l.-worth
of goods sent out to Ellis and Everington in Sept.—in Sept and Oct. they were continually supplying Messrs. Pawson with goods, but not in Nov.—I remember on 22nd Oct. Pawson's people sending in a quantity of goods—I went and told them that they had sent about a hundred pieces more than were ordered, and requested them to take them back—they were not silks, they were printed goods—they said they would send on in the course of the day, and they did so—they did not take them back.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Can you tell me the value of the printed goods you ordered back to Pawson's? A. 82l. the lot, I think—both Woolf and Lyons were present when I was desired to take the message to Pawson's—they gave me the invoice book—I took it to Pawson's, and told them the message, that they had sent in above a hundred pieces more than were ordered, and they must take them back, as they were of no use—they did not say they would take them back, and they did not—I do not know the person's name who gave me the message—I think he is in Court—he was sitting over there just now—it was not Mr. Shepherd, it was one of the clerks in the counting-house—I know of a lot of manufactured goods coming on 27th Sept. from Ellis and Co., which I believe were sold to Mr. Hart by Woolf and Lyons on 29th Sept.—they were not made up into umbrellas first, but were sold just in the state they came from Ellis and Everington—I think the loss on them was about 40l. or 50l.
WILLIAM HENRY WARRE . I am a pawnbroker, carrying on business with Mr. Muncaster, in Skinner-street. Various pledges were made with us by an agent of the bankrupts from 7th Sept., 1850, down to 18th Oct., 1851—I have handed in an abstract from my books with regard to the whole transaction—it is correct—a man who gave the name of Abraham John Moss brought the goods to our premises—they were deposited in the name of John Moss, who described himself as agent for Moss Davids, of Earl-street, Blackfriars.
DENNIS SHEPHERD . I am the Manchester silk-buyer of the house of Pawson and Co., of St. Paul's-churchyard. I know Lyons, I have had dealings with him—I have supplied the bankrupts with unmanufactured goods, and I believe they have supplied us with articles in their trade—the last transaction was on 22nd Oct. to the amount of 298l. 18s. 3d.—I have since seen eight of those pieces at the pawnbrokers—they were pawned on 4th Nov. for 46l. to the best of my recollection—the remainder I have never seen since—I do not know of any printed goods being sent for a shipping order—the silks that I supplied them with, they applied to me to buy—Mr. Lyons came to me, and asked me if I had any goods calculated to suit his trade; I told him I had—I showed him three lots, and after looking at them they were supplied—he asked me to give him patterns of them—he took the patterns away, and came on a subsequent day for the goods, and they were supplied him.
JURY to MR. J.J. FOOT. Q. Had you a reference before you opened the account with the prisoners? A. I had done business with Lyons for a short time—I had no reference with regard to Woolf except what Lyons said.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, Feb. 25th, 1852.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald. FAREBROTHER; Mr. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald, CUBITT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
CHARLES GRANT WILSON . I am a woollen merchant, of 18, Basinghall-street. The prisoner came into my employ as town traveller, on 6th Sep.—he first came on a commission, and afterwards on a salary of 100l. a year—he was in the habit of taking out patterns—one morning I had occasion to want some small patterns—the prisoner had put his packet of patterns on the end of the desk, and had gone up stairs—I undid them, and found a piece of cloth amongst them—through a friend, Mr. Brown, I charged the prisoner with robbery, and he gave me up some duplicates—these are them—I have traced some goods to the pawnbrokers'—the prisoner had no right to pawn any of my goods.
ALFRED ROBERT WOOD . I conduct the business of a pawnbroker for my mother, Mrs. Wood, in High-street, Bloomsbury. This duplicate (looking at one) is my writing—I produce this shawl—it was pawned on 1st Oct., I do not know by whom—it is in the name of Cameron—it is very common for persons to give a name different to their own.
JOHN OAKLEY . I am assistant to Mr. Young, a pawnbroker of Princes-street, Leicester-square. This duplicate (looking at it) is the writing of a young man who has left our employ—I know this is one of our duplicates—this is the shawl that was pledged.
MR. WILSON re-examined. These shawls are all my property—this one is mine—I had not sold or disposed of it—no one had these goods in London but myself, and I have not sold them in London—my mark was on this one, in this place—it has been torn off—I know the goods by the quality, and the border—they were manufactured in Roxburghshire—the manufacturer had a large stock, and sent them to me—I had upwards of 100l.-worth of them—I happened to be there at the time, and they were very unsaleable from their colour—he asked me to take them, which I did—since I got these goods from the pawn-broker, I have looked over my stock—I have missed between thirty and forty—I have got eight back, by the duplicates given me by the prisoner—he did not make any statement when he gave them to me—I did not say anything to him, nor did anyone in my presence—my friend saw the prisoner on the Saturday afternoon, and the duplicates were given me on the Monday afternoon—the prisoner said he expected to be able to replace them, and he would pay the money—he put these duplicates into my hand—my friend had made him a promise—he had no authority from me to hold out any expectation of mercy, no further than a general authority to act for me on this occasion—I was so overwhelmed myself, I did not feel equal to it.
Prisoner. Q. Who did you get these duplicates from? A. From you; I made no condition when I got them—after you made a general statement, and handed me back all my account, I expressed my deep regret that you had
any promise held out to you—nothing was said at the time you gave up the pawn tickets about a general statement—I gave you a sovereign to leave London—I did not say if you would make a fair statement, I would give you a chance—I did not take you into custody at the time you gave me the tickets, because of Mr. Brown's promise—you left my employ the beginning of Jan.—I did not advise you to enlist, and go to the Cape of Good Hope—on my oath, I did not—I declined to give you any advice—you gave me these tickets up in presence of Mr. Brown—I had no particular reason for desiring you to leave London, but for your own sake—I never knew your address after you left the Minories—I do not know your address now—I have taken you now to satisfy the ends of justice—I was not aware that you called on one of my best customers, and solicited an order from him, until the day I gave instructtions for your apprehension.
COURT. Q. When did you give him into custody? A. About three weeks since; I thought it was my duty so to do, when I found he had robbed me almost every two days from the time he came to me—the man that he speaks of I had closed my account with—I would not sell him any goods at all, so far from his being my best customer—I did not buy any shawls of one particular pattern—they were a job lot—they came in stock the beginning of Sept.
Prisoner's Defence. The present proceeding is entirely a piece of malice towards me; he directed Mr. Brown to come to me, and said if I would make a fair statement he would give me a fair chance to begin the world again; I was told it on Saturday night, and I attended on the Monday morning; Mr. Brown told me to tell Mr. Wilson everything, and my best way was to leave London; he owed me a considerable amount for salary; after giving him the tickets, he said he would make inquiries the following day, and see what money he could get for me; I called on the Tuesday night, and he said he was very sorry he was not able to give me more than 20s.; I had therefore nothing to depend on but to look after some employ; I obtained employment, where I have been employed ever since; I called on two of his customers, and one gave me an order, and this coming to his ears is the cause of the present proceeding.
GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Six Months.
(There were two other indictments against the prisoner.)
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE RICE . I am an eating-house keeper, and live in High-street, Woolwich. In Dec, 1849, I was midshipman's steward on board the Firebrand—she was lying off Basica Bay, at Greece—the prisoner was gun-room cook on board—I had some money, bank-notes, and a Government security, amounting in all to 39l.—amongst it was the half of a 5l.-note, of the Portsmouth branch of the Bank of England—I believe the number of it to be 23945—I made a memorandum, but having sent the other half away, I did not trouble myself any more about it—I had transmitted the other half to my father, at Portsmouth—I missed this money from a drawer in my berth, in the after part of the ship—the prisoner could not have access to it, that I am aware of, in the course of his duty; but I was in the habit of going away, and leaving the door open, and it was during that time the money was abstracted—on the occasion on which I was robbed I had left the keys in the drawers—after missing the money, I mentioned that I had been robbed of 39l.—I told the prisoner so—in about a month or six weeks afterwards the prisoner was invalided home—I arrived in England in July, 1850—when I
got here, I caused a man named Robinson to he taken into custody for this offence, and he was tried and convicted at the Old Bailey—he was a man on board the vessel—the prisoner had been looked out for previous to my arrival in England, and on my arrival I was on the look-out for him—I charged both him and Robinson with the offence—I found the prisoner last Thursday three weeks, in the parlour of the Mitre Tavern, at Woolwich—I called him by his name—he looked round at me, and said, "Is that you, George Rice, who was in the Firebrand?"—I said, "Yes;" and I said, "How about the bills you robbed me of?"—he said, "Come outside, and talk to me about it"—I refused to go out, and gave him into custody—the half-note which I lost was the right hand half—it was the half without the "Five" on it.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. Were there other persons in the room at the Mitre Tavern? A. There were about twenty persons in the room; I charged the prisoner with robbery, and he said, "You had better come out, and talk to me outside"—he had been on board the ship about five months—I lost 39l. the latter end of Dec, and I believe he left the ship in March; I am not certain—I did not charge him with the robbery while he was on board the vessel—I had no grounds to do so—I think there were about 130 persons on board the vessel—they could not all have access to the place where I kept this money as well as the prisoner—it was the prisoner's duty to be in the steerage—the whole of the officers would be there, and the marines, their servants, and the stewards and cooks—I have lately seen a document which has referred me to the number of the note—since giving my evidence before the police Magistrate, I went to Portsmouth, and procured the document—I did not trouble myself about the number at the time, as I had sent the first half to my father, knowing that the first half would be almost certain to reach my father—I was examined four times—it was after the second examination I saw the memorandum—my memory was not then so good with respect to that number as it is now—I told the Magistrate I could not speak so positively—the prisoner left the vessel because he was invalided—till this transaction I had no cause of complaint against him—he was one of the last men I should have suspected.
SAMUEL JAMES TAYLOR . I am foreman of the porters on the South Western Railway, and live in Holies-street, Wandsworth-road. I have known the prisoner about three years—he came to me about two years ago—I could not say as to the month—he came to me at the railway—(he had previously sent me a note to say he was coming)—when he came I spoke to him, and we went outside to an hotel—he told me he had come away in such haste from Rochester, that he had left the half of a 5l-note behind him, and the other half he had unfortunately lost on board his ship—he told me he was cook or steward, and he had cut a note in half to send home to his friends in Rochester, and when he had cut it the bell rang for him, and he was called to go to the cabin, and while going a puff of wind drawed it out of the port-hole—he had come up to me to stop with me for a few days, and he told me he wanted me to go with him to the Bank of England to be answerable for this 5l.-note, to stand surety, to be bail for him—I said I would, if he would write home and get the half-note—he did write before my face, and I sent a man with the letter to post it—an answer came the next day, about 9 or 10 o'clock—the letter came to the railway, it was directed to my care—the prisoner was with me at the time—I took the letter from the policeman at the gate, and gave it to the prisoner—he opened it in my presence, and produced the half note out of it—I took notice of the note—I could not swear to the number, though I looked at it several times—he
asked roe to go to the Bank with him—I went with him, to be answerable for the 5l.-note—I offered to become security for him, but they would not take my security, as my name did not appear in the "Directory"—they wanted two they told me—I got a gentleman, named Groom, to be security for half the note—I was answerable to Mr. Groom, because he passed his name for me, knowing me so long—I had to pay him the money.
Cross-examined. Q. The prisoner was on a visit to you at your place? A. Yes; I saw him at a relation of mine, that was how I first knew him—as far as I knew, I thought he bore a respectable character.
DANIEL BRIDGEN . I am a carpenter, and live in Prince's-road, Lambeth. I became surety for 5l. at the Bank for the prisoner in 1850; I think in the month of May—my name is to this paper—the prisoner also signed it in my presence—here is his name to it, I saw him write it—he told me how the other half bad been lost—he said the ship was lying at the dock head, off Greece, that he, having his papers out, was going to send one half off to his friends in England; and in the bustle the other half got blown out of the port hole and lost; and he produced this other half, and said he could not get cash for it without two bondsmen—he had got one, whom he named to me, and after a little parley, he got me to pot my name also.
RICHARD ADYE BAILEY . I am a clerk in the Bank of England. I produce a cancelled half of a 5l.-note, Bank of England, Portsmouth Branch—I have two halves, No. 23945, 17th Oct., 1848—the right hand half was paid to an indemnity to James Gilbert, on 10th May, 1850; and the left-hand half was paid in by John Rice, who claimed it also on indemnity—the signature of James Gilbert appears on this declaration made at the Mansion-house, in which James Gilbert states he had lost the other half—I did not see him sign it—I did not see this bond signed.
JOHN WALKER (policeman, R 298). I received charge of the prisoner on 29th Jan.—I told him he was charged with stealing the half of a 5l.-note, and also a Government bill—he said he had not stolen either, and had neither the half 5l.-note nor the Government bill.
Cross-examined. Q. Was not what he said, that he was innocent of the charge, he had not taken anything of the kind? A. He said he had not taken anything of the kind; and in going along he said he knew nothing of it.
CHRISTOPHER EDWARD THEAKSTON . I am cashier of the branch Bank of England, at Portsmouth. On 20th April, 1850, to the best of my recollection, a man of the name of John Rice, the father of the prosecutor, brought me the half of a 5l.-note—I know of my own knowledge that that half note was forwarded to London—with respect to the number, I have refreshed my memory by reference to our books—the entry in the books is not my writing—I have not the books here—I received instructions from London respecting that note—if I saw the half note J should know that that was the genuine half note that was sent up—(looking at it)—I could not state positively the number without the books, but on reference to the books I can say this is the one that was sent up—the entry was not my writing—I saw the entry on the day on which it was made—it was No. 23945—there was no other half note in the name of Rice sent up.
JOHN RICE . I am the father of George Rice. I received the half of a 5l.-note from my son, in a foreign letter, from Malta, I believe—I really do not know the number—I won't say positively that this is the half—(looking at it)—I gave it to Mr. Thickston.
this is his signature to this declaration and this bond—(the bond was here read).
COURT to MR. BAILEY. Q. How came the half note sent on 10th May to be paid? A. It came in first; but it had to go through certain forms, and while that was being arranged, Rice applied for the payment of the other half—we do not post them in the ledger till it is paid.
COURT to GEROGE RICE. Q. What became of Robinson? A. He was tried and convicted in this Court, and had six months—the 10l.-note and one 5l.-note were traced to him.
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Wednesday, February 25th, 1852.
PRESENT—Sir JOHN MUSGROVE, Bart., Ald.; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT. Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Seventh Jury.
JAMES RITCHIE . I live at Craven-cottage, Richmond. On Wednesday, 28th Jan., about half-past 3 o'clock in the morning, I went into the White Hart in the Strand with Mr. Jones, who is a friend of mine—there were about twenty people there; I saw Connor there—Mr. Jones took charge of my money—we stayed there till half-past 6, when we came out, and Mr. Jones called a cab, got into it, and from the cab window give me back my pocket-book and the money, which was a 10l.-note and eight sovereigns—the sovereigns were rolled up in the note in the pocket-book, and I put the pocket-book into my coat side-pocket—I was not quite sober, but knew what I was about—I then went into the coffee-shop next door to the White Hart, and ordered some him and eggs—Connor then came in, told me he was hungry, and asked me if I would give him something to eat—I told him he might have the same as I was having—I then said I Wanted a cab, and Connor said he would fetch one—a cab was brought, and he was inside it when it came and the prisoner Watts was on the box with the caiman—I got into the cab, and told the caiman to drive to St. Paul's Churchyard—I felt my pocket-book then safe—the caoman drove to St. Paul's Churchyard and stopped there; Connor immediately opened the door, jumped out, and told the caiman the gentleman inside would pay the fare—I got out, put my hand on my pocket, and immediately missed my pocket-book—I asked the cabman which way Connor had gone; he said he did not know, and said that Watts had gone off with him—I did not see Watts go, but the cabman is here—I then drove to the station and gave the charge.
Cross-examined by MR. BURNIE. Q. Was Watts ever inside the coffee-shop with you? A. I did not see him—he was not inside the cab"—I did not see him till he came on the cab—I am not a very good sparrer—I had been sparring that night at the public-house in the bar parlour, and I had served some customers with gin, in the landlord's apron—I may have treated two of them—I treated Connor—I did not propose to him to go to the coffee-shop to have some refreshment—Watts remained on the cab when I got into it—I felt my pocket-book safe after I got into the cab.
Connor. Q. Did you not ask me to go to the coffee-shop? A. No; I did not take your hat off your head and go in—I did not say I would see you
as far as St. Paul's Churchyard—I did not tell Watts to get outside the cab, nor did I shove you into it.
RICHARD JONES . I live at Angel-terrace, Islington. On the morning of 28th Jan., about half-past 3 o'clock, I went with Ritchie into the White Hart, and we remained there till half-past 6—Ritchie was somewhat intoxicated, but was well aware of what he was doing—I took his money from him, because I thought he was mixing with low company, and thought there might be pickpockets among them, and as I did not intend to mix with them I thought it would be safer with me—I left to go home at about half-past 6—Ritchie went with me as far as the cab door, when he changed his mind, said he would not go, and asked me for his pocket-book—I gave him the pocket-book with my left hand through the cab window, and the 10l.-note and seven sovereigns and two half sovereigns with my right—I took the money out of the pocket-book to show him he had got it all—he put the money into his pocket-book, and I think he put the book into his pocket, but I cannot say certainly.
WILLIAM CHAPMAN DIXEY (policeman, F 103.) On the morning of 28th Jan., a little before 6 o'clock, my attention was called to the White Hart in consequence of my seeing a number of people there, and a female in particular, whom I knew to be a thief—I looked through the crack of the door several times—I saw Connor, Jones, and Ritchie together in front of the bar—I did not see Watts—I heard Jones ask the prosecutor to come home, for be would not stay any longer for him—I told Jones he had better stop a little while and give him another chance, it would be a pity to lose his money, and I thought the party round were likely to ease him of it—I afterwards saw Jones in the cab, and saw him give Ritchie a pocket-book and a paper with something in it—Ritchie took them of him at the cab window—I did not see him do anything with them, and he then went back into the White Hart—I heard Connor say, it was a b—y fine haul, and he should not mind serving a drag for it—a drag means three months.
Cross-examined by MR. BURNIE. Q. When were those words spoken? A. At about 6 o'clock; Watts was not present.
Connor. Q. Were you on the opposite side of the road when the gentleman came out of the coffee-shop? A. No; on the same side as the White Hart—I cannot say how long Ritchie was behind the bar—I looked through the door several times, and I saw him behind the bar once.
COURT. Q. Did Connor say it was a by fine haul, out loud? A. In rather a high tone; everybody near could hear it.
FREDERICK WILLIAM DAVEY (policeman, F 143). On this morning I was with Dixey—I saw Connor and Watts, and also Jones and Ritchie in the White Hart drinking brandy and water—I observed them for about three hours—I saw Jones in the cab, and Ritchie came out of the public-house accompanied by Connor and Watts, and asked Jones for his pocket-book—Jones gave it to him, and he laid the money on his hand out of the pocket-book, and it was eight sovereigns—Connor said, "It looks b—y tempting"—I said to him, "You would not like to throw yourself away for the paltry sum of 8l?"—Connor rubbed his hands, and said he should not mind doing a b—y drag for it.
COURT. Q. Did he say that to you? A. I heard him say it; he said it to Watts, who was standing at his side—he heard me say to him, "You would not like to throw yourself away for a paltry sum of 8l."
MR. SPICER. Q. What took place then? A. Ritchie put the book into his right pocket and went into the public-house again, and Connor and Watts followed him in—I did not see anything else.
COURT. Q. Did you see him go into the coffee-house? A. Yes.
Connor. Q. What time was it when we went into the coffee-shop? A. The last time I saw you was a little before 6 o'clock—I saw you go into the public-house after Ritchie had his money back, and then saw you come out again and go into the coffee-shop.
Cross-examined by MR. BURNIE. Q. Did you see the cab called? A. No; I did not see any women or other persons about the house when I first went there—Connor, Watts, and me were all standing together on the pavement when Connor used those words—I saw Ritchie leave the public house, and go into the coffee-house; Connor went in with him—about twenty minutes after they left the public bouse they went to the coffee shop; Connor went in first, Mr. Ritchie went in after about four minutes, and Watts followed him in—Mr. Ritchie did not go in first.
COURT. Q. Did you know Watts before? A. Yes; I am sure I saw him at the White Hart—I knew Connor before.
WILLIAM WHITE (policeman, F 88). On the morning of 28th Jan., about a quarter, or from that to half-past 7 o'clock, I saw a cab drive up to the coffee shop next door to the White Hart, in the Strand—I did not see Watts on the cab, but I saw him open the coffee shop door, and come out with Mr. Ritchie—Watts opened the cab door, Mr. Ritchie got inside, and as soon as he had got in I saw Connor sitting in the cab—I did not see any one get in besides Ritchie—Watts said, "Where shall we drive to;" Ritchie said, "Go on, drive anywhere," and Connor said, "Drive to St. Paul's"—Watts got on the box, and they drove away, and I saw no more of them.
EDWARD FREWIN . I am a hatter at 10. Tyler-street, Regent-street. I know the prisoners as customers—on Wednesday, 28th Jan., about 6 o'clock in the evening, they cam to my shop, and purchased a hat each—they came to 13s.; Connor gave me a sovereign, and I gave him the change.
GEROGE BASHFORD (police-sergeant, F 5). I know the White Hart—on the morning of 28th Jan. I saw Connor and Watts there on two or three occasions—the first time was alter 3 o'clock, and I passed the door on several occasions afterwards, and called the men's attention to the parties there, as there was a notorious female thief there who was carried out by Connor—in consequence of information, about half-past 1 on the following morning, 29th, I apprehended Connor in a kitchen, at 23, Castle-street, Seven Dials—I told him the charge, he said nothing to it—I took Watts about half-past 4 the same morning, in bed, in the same house—I found two hats, and I asked Watts if he knew anything about them—he said yes, one was his; I asked if he had paid for it himself; he said he had.
HENRY ALDRIDGE . I am a cab driver, and live at 7, Field-lane, Holborn. On 28th Jan., about a quarter past 7 o'clock in the morning, I was on the rank opposite Somerset-house, and was fetched by Watts, who took me to the White Hart—he rode on the box with me; he got off the box and Ritchie came out of the White Hart, or out of the coffee shop next door, I cannot say which, as I was between the two doors—Mr. Ritchie got into the cab, I did not notice any one else, and ordered me down Fleet-street, towards St, Paul's—I drove to the corner of Watling-street, when Watts, who was on the box with me, got off, and out jumped some one from inside the cab—they walked away, saying, "The gentleman inside will pay you"—I got off the box, and saw Mr. Ritchie, who appeared to be asleep—I said, "Here is St. Paul's Churchyard"—he said, "Where are my two friends?"and asked which way they went—I had not noticed which way they went—he stood there, talking about his money; a gentleman who knew him came out of the
house where he was standing, and I then drove them to the Fleet-street station house.
Cross-examined by MR. BURNIE. Q. Watts was on the cab-box the whole time? A. Yes; he never left it—he and Connor appeared to go away together—I have known Watts living potboy at the White Hart—I cannot say whether a potboy's pay would enable him to buy a new hat.
MR. SPICER. Q. Is he potboy there now? A. No; when I knew him there it was a long while ago—I never knew him as a cab man.
COURT. Q. Was your cab searched? A. Yes; by Mr. Ritchie himself in St. Paul's Churchyard—it was then half past 8 o'clock, and quite light.
CONNOR— GUILTY .** Aged 24.— Transported for Seven years.
WATTS— NOT GUILTY .
THOMAS MILLS . I am a baker, at Poplar. I know the prisoner—in the early part of Jan. I paid him 17l. 8s. 6d. on account of Mr. Penson of Newgate-street—he gave me this receipt—I saw him write it (produced.)
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. How long have you known him? A. About eighteen months—I never heard anything against his character.
Cross-examined Q. How long have you known him? A. About eighteen months—I believe him to be of a very exemplary character.
JOHN WILCOX . I am cashier to Mr. George Penson, wholesale cheesemonger. The prisoner was his town, traveller—it was his duty to receive money, and to pay it over to me, and no one else—he has paid me 10l. of this 17l. 8s. 6d. paid by Mr. Mills—he entered 10l. in the cash book, and paid it over to me, but said nothing about the rest—he has not paid me 2l. 11s. 9d. rcceived from Adams, or 7l. 6s. 10d. from Clerk.
Cross-examined. Q. Was the prisoner paid by commission? A. Yes; I do not know what is due to him—that is settled by Mr. Penson, who is not here—I am occasionally away from the business—Mr. Mylne is the head of the establishment, after Mr. Penson—I believe the prisoner was engaged by Mr. Mylne; he is not here—I was examined before the Magistrate—Mr. Wood, the prisoner's solicitor, desired that Mr. Mylne might appear at the trial.
COURT. Q. How do you know he only paid you 10l. out of the 17l. 8s. 6d.? A. By the cash book (produced) I find an entry in his own writing, 10l., dated 8th Jan.—I put down all sums that he paid me.
MR. ROBINSON, Q. If Mr. Penson received any money, would he enter it in this book? A. Yes, and pay it over to me—all money goes through my hands.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 22.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Four Months.
MESSRS. RYLAND and LOCKE conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES HARMAN CRISP . I am a cab driver, and live at 16, Frederick-street, Hampstead-road. On 2nd Jan. I was driving a Hansom cab, belonging to Mr. Thomas Beard—between half-past 6 and 7 o'clock I sat a gentleman
down at the Adelphi Theatre, and took the prisoner up, who said he wanted me until 12 o'clock, and told me to drive to Ben Caunt's, in St. Martin's-lane—he remained there till a little before 12, when they were shutting up the house—when he came out I said, "Perhaps you will be good enough to pay me before your friend Caunt"—he did not do so, but said, "Drive me to Cotterell's Wharf, and when I get on board I will pay you"—a man named Joyce came out with him, and I drove them both to the gates of Cotterell's Wharf, Earl-street, Blackfriars—I then asked the prisoner again for my fare, and he told me I should have it if I came on board—I was quite sober—I left my cab with a stranger, went across a plank to a barge, and up a ladder, to the vessel—the bottom of the ladder was in the barge, and the top in the vessel, and we all three went up the ladder into the vessel, and into the cabin—the prisoner then invited us to have supper with him, and be all comfortable together—I said I wished him to pay me my fare, as I had left my cab with a stranger; and I had a good horse in it, as is usual in Hansom cabs—my fare was 6s. 8d.—he did not pay me, but took up a knife and stabbed at the cat—and he then hit me with a ham bone on the hat, but I took it jocularly, as he had been joking all the night—I continued to ask for my money, and remained there some minutes—I at last gave up all thoughts of getting it that night—he said he would pay me next afternoon—I attempted to go on shore, and got off the brig on to the ladder—the prisoner was holding the top of the ladder with both hands when I got on to it—I went down the ladder with my face towards him, and I saw him take the ladder with his left hand and turn it over, and I went into the water—I had my great coat on, and a heavy handkerchief round my neck—I do not know whether my feet touched the ground—I do not know how long I was in the water, I was struggling—my clothes became very heavy, and I imagined it was all over with me—I was got out—it was a cold windy night—I was not able to leave my bed for four days, and have not been able to go to work since.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. Who else was present on the brig? A. The man Joyce, whom we brought from Caunt's, a boy, the master of the brig, and his wife—the prisoner was very jovial, laughing and playing the fool—I was waiting at Caunt's from before 7 till about half-past 11 o'clock—I was in and outside of the public-house—I had half a tumbler of gin and water, which was given me by Caunt—I had nothing else—we went to no other public-house—I did not go to a public-house when the defendant first called me.
MR. LOCKE. Q. When he tipped the ladder over, who was on deck? A. I do not know that there was any one else on deck—the captain and the boy were in the cabin—I did not see them on deck at all—I have never been paid my fare.
WILLIAM JOHN BAPTIST JOYCE . I was a porter in the service of Mr. Eldridge, of Red Lion-street, Holborn, tallow-chandler, but I have now left. On the evening of 2nd Jan. I was at Caunt's public-house, and a cab came up about half-past 7 o'clock, driven by the last witness, and the prisoner came in it—I had never seen either of them before—the cab stayed there about three hours—Crisp went out at times to look after his horse—I took no notice of them till the prisoner accosted me, and said he would give me the first slap on the nose for a pot of beer—he intimated to me that he did not intend to pay the cab man—I gave the cab man a hint of it, and he asked me to go with him, and see him righted—we all went down to Thames-street, and the cab man applied for his money—he did not get it, and we all went on board the vessel—we went up a ladder, one end of which was in the vessel, and the
other in a barge—it was not fastened at either end—we all got safe on board, and stayed there nearly three-quarters of an hour—when we went below the prisoner introduced something to eat, and began several antics to frighten us, and the cab man said he only wanted his money, and to go on shore—I attempted to leave the place, and met the captain's wife coming down—I made way for her, and the prisoner told me I was in the lady's cabin, and I had better sheer off—I went off, and I met the captain, and he asked me what business I had there—I said the mate had brought me there, and the mate said it was all right—they then began pulling their boots off, and I could see it was not all right, and I went down the ladder all safely to the barge, and as I did not like to leave the cab man, I waited for him on the barge—I heard the captain and prisoner telling the prosecutor to go on—he came down the ladder with his face towards the vessel, and when he had got two rounds down the ladder, the prisoner said, "Go down, you b—,"turning the ladder over, and the cab man fell into the water—he went under water, and I came and laid on my belly to look for him—he was under water about a minute and a half, when I saw something like him, and I caught hold of his hair—I held him about five minutes—I could not get him out myself, and the prisoner, the captain, and the boy came and assisted me—we at last got him out—he was very exhausted, and could not speak.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How long was the cab man at Ben Caunt's? A. About three hours, walking backwards and forwards, and now and then having a drop to drink—the cab was waiting outside—I do not know what fare the cab man asked for—when he was in the river I do not think he was lying on the bottom—it was high tide, too high for him to be in the mud—he was 200 yards from the side—it was about a quarter past 12 o'clock on 2nd Jan.—(it was high water at 10).
I trade between anywhere in the north and London—the prisoner was my mate—on the night of 2nd Jan. I went on board with my wife between 11 and 12 o'clock—I went down into the cabin, ordered the cab man out, and he went—I afterwards found he was in the water, and helped to pull him out—we sailed about half-past 3 next morning.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Was a summons sent to you at Yarmouth? A. Yes; I told the mate, and arranged that when we came to London we should go and see about it—we came up again last Tuesday week—the prisoner's wages were 3l. 2s. 6d. per month—he is a very steady, kind-hearted man—he has often persuaded me not to drink, and has refused to drink when I have offered it to him.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined One Month.
320. RICHARD TAYLOR , stealing 1 book, 1 waistcoat, 1 coat, and 3 handkerchiefs, value 1l. 6s., the goods of John Newsome; and 1 shirt, value 1s., the goods of Edmond Jackson; and 1 shirt, value 1s., the goods of Joseph Hargrave: in a vessel on the Thames.
JOHN NEWSOME . I am cabin boy of the George and Sarah, which is lying in the Thames. Last Monday, about a quarter past 1 o'clock, I missed a book, waistcoat, jacket, and three handkerchiefs, which I had seen safe in the forecastle at 7 in the morning—these produced are them—(produced).
WILLIAM EDMONDS (City policeman, 528). Last Monday, about half past 1 o'clock, I saw the prisoner running along Fenchurch-street—I saw he had something bulky under his Guernsey frock—I stopped him, told him I was a constable, and asked what he had under his Guernsey frock—he said he had his own clothes, that he had run away from his vessel—I told him I must
see what they were—I searched him, and found these things and this shirt—I took him to the station—he said he belonged to the William Seaton that laid at anchor down the other side of London-bridge—I made inquiries, and found he had formerly been on that vessel—he afterwards told me he had bought the things on London-bridge, and given 12s. to a man for them.
Prisoner's Defence. I bought the things on London-bridge about half-past 1 o'clock.
GUILTY . Aged 29.— Confined Three Months.
EMMA HARRIS . My husband's name is Timothy; he lives at Uxbridge. On Saturday evening, 20th Dec, the prisoner came to our shop, and said she wanted to purchase, a hat—I showed her two—she chose this one (produced), but said she was going to Mr. Davis's, the pawnbroker; she should see how her money stood, and would call in again—she called again, and asked if we should be open on the Sunday morning—I said, "Yes, till church time"—she did not come again, and on the following Monday I missed the hat—I did not see her again till last Monday, when she brought the hat to our shop to sell it, and I knew it—the white lining bad been taken out, and the maker's name—it is my husband's.
GEORGE BROUGHTON (policeman, T 201). The prisoner was given into my charge for stealing the hat—I asked her about the lining—she said it was up stairs, or it was burnt, she did not know which—she said she knocked it off the counter with her elbow, picked it up, and took it away.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined One Month.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, February 20th, 1852.
PRESENT—Mr. Justice WILLIAMS; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; Mr. Ald. CUBITT; and RUSSELL GURNEY, Esq. Before Mr. Justice Williams and the Fourth Jury.
322. ARNOLD GERBER, WILLIAM WAGNER , and PHILIP KESSLER , were indicted (with Solomon Krakauer, who was not given in charge to the Jury,) for feloniously forging and uttering a warrant and order for payment of 340l., with intent to defraud.
MESSRS. CLARKSON, HUDDLESTON, and PARNELL, conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE TOZER . I am a cashier, at the St. James'-square Branch of the London and Westminster Bank. On 20th Dec, about 11 o'clock in the morning, this check (produced) was presented to me by the prisoner Gerber—Selim, Dean, and Co., are customers of our bank—this signature is very much like theirs, and the check altogether, at an ordinary glance, is like one of theirs—it is the custom of our bank to number each check in the customers' check-books—the same number runs through each book—this check is numbered 6725—Selim, Dean, and Co.'s number is 6723—this (looking at another one), I should say, is a genuine check of theirs—on looking at the book in which their checks are entered, I found that the number did not correspond—I asked Gerber how he would have it cashed, and he said, "Ten twenties, and the remainder in gold"—I desired him to wait, and kept the check—I had some conversation with the manager of the bank, and then went
to Selim, Dean, and Co.'s, in Coventry-street, leaving Gerber in the bank—I returned with Mr. Dean, and Gerber was then in the bank—in consequence of what Mr. Dean said, Webb, the police-officer, was sent for, and Gerber was given into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. The bank is not very full at 11 o'clock in the morning, is it? A. No; I should say he did not have to wait any time before I served him—he came to the counter in the ordinary course—I did not particularly notice how he was dressed—I should say he could only have waited a few minutes before I went to make inquiry about the check—he was standing at the counter, which is a very little distance from the door—before I went to Coventry-street, I believe I told him to wait—I should think he must have seen me leave—there was not the least restraint put upon him at that time—I was only absent a few minutes—I went as quick as possible—I should say I was not gone longer than ten minutes or a quarter of an hour—I found him standing in the same place when I returned—there were not many people in the bank on my return—when I went to make the inquiries, I did not give him any reason why I was going—I did not state I was going to inquire of Selim, Dean, and Co.—I had the check with me, in my hand, or in my pocket; I belief in my pocket, but I cannot say.
MR. PARNELL. Q. Are there double doors to the bank? A. Yes; there is usually a porter keeping watch there—I had communicated my suspicions about the check to Mr. Vyle, the manager—Mr. Vyle remained behind—I cannot say whether he was in view of Gerber—I think he was in the parlour.
CHARLES WEBB (policeman, C 18). On the morning of 20th Dec. I took Gerber into custody, at the London and Westminster Bank, St. James'-square, on a charge of uttering a forged check for 340l.—I searched him at the station-house, and found this receipt for an advertisement on him—(read—"Morning Advertiser Office, 37, Fleet-street, 13/12/51; one insertion, 2s. 6d.")—I also found on him thiletter—(read—addressed, "A.G., 34, Great Percy-street, Baggnige-wells-road. Osmond's Coffee-house, Dec. 18th, 1851. If A.G. has not met with an engagement yet, he is requested to call tomorrow, Friday, about 1 o'clock, at the above-named coffee-house, in the Strand, and to inquire for Mr. Sims. If found suitable he will find employment")—I also found on him this slip of paper—(read—"Mr. Sims has been waiting for A.G. a whole hour; he requests him to come immediately to the Duke of York's Column, where he will find Mr. Sims, leaning against the column")—I asked him where he had got the check from—he said he had put an advertisement in the Morning Advertiser, and that he had received the note which I have just produced in reply to it, requesting that he should meet a gentleman at Osmond's Coffee-house, in the Strand; that he went to Osmond's Coffee-house, and, instead of seeing a gentleman, he received that strip of paper, directing him to go to the Duke of York's Column; that he went to the Duke of York's Column; that he saw no one leaning against the column, as described in the piece of paper, but he saw a man come up to him, as he was looking about, who said, "Are you looking for me? I see you are; you have got my piece of paper in your hand;"that he then asked him for references to his character, and directed him to meet him at Osmond's Coffee-house on the morrow morning, which was Saturday, at 10 o'clock; that he went accordingly, on the morrow morning, and, as he was about to step into Osmond's Coffee-house, the party that he had seen at the Column the day before said, "You are behind your time," and asked him where he had been to, and said he had been waiting for him a quarter of an hour; he (Gerber) replied, "Not so long as that;" the party said, "I have; if you want business,
you must be more punctual;" that he then gave him the check, and directed him to go and get the money for it, and the party who had given him the check walked after him sharply, and said, "Have you any bags to put the money in?"he replied, "No, but I have good pockets;" he told him if he wanted business he must be prepared with those sort of things, and gave him these two bags (produced), which I found on him—Gerber was taken to the police-court, remanded till the Tuesday, and then discharged.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. Did he tell you where he lived? A. He did; I went to the place he told me, and found it was correct—it was 34, Great Percy-street, Clerkenwell; that is the same as Bagnigge-wells-road—they did not recognise him as a lodger there, but he was lodging with some man who was a lodger—he did not give me the bags at the Bank; I found them on him at the station.
JOHN THOMAS DEAN . I am a partner in the firm of Selim, Dean, and Co., silversmiths and money-changers, of 9, Coventry-street. This check for 340l. is a forgery—it is not my writing or my partner's, or written by our authority—it was brought to me on 20th Dec. by one of the clerks of the bank—on Friday, 12th Dec, the prisoner Kessler came to our shop, and requested change for some foreign money—he brought thirty-eight thalers and an American eagle or gold coin—I agreed to change them—they came to 7l. 11s. 2d. in English money, which I laid on the counter—he then said he wanted to send the money to a party in the City-road, and he thought it would be too late for a Post-office order, and asked me which I thought was the best way to send it—I told him as it was too late for a Post-office order, he had better send it by a porter—he said that would be too much trouble, would I oblige him with a check—I said I would, and he threw a sovereign on the counter and told me to write the check for 8l. 6s., and make it payable to John Asch—I took the sovereign, took the 14s. 10d. difference, and gave him 5s. 2d., keeping 8l. 6s., and gave him a check for 8l. 6s.
Q. Have you a way of drawing checks under 10l. different from those of a larger amount? A. Yes; I always join the last letter of the amount with the word "pounds," so that it should not be filled up for a larger amount, and in consequence of that I make a particular kind of "P"—I join the two letters together, so that the "eight" could not be altered to "eighty," or "nine" to "ninety"—I did so in the check I gave Kessler—if the check is for a larger amount than 10l., that is not my form at all—on the following day I received a letter, which I have not preserved—I do not know whose writing it was—on the Saturday the clerk of the London and Westminster Bank produced to me the check for 340l., which 1 at once said was a forgery—our checks are numbered 6723; we have no checks of No. 6725, which is the number of the forged check—the form of the "P" in the forged check corresponds with my form of making the "P" when I draw under 10l.—we very rarely give checks under 10l.—in consequence of noticing that peculiarity in the check, I proceeded that same day to find Kessler—I went to many places—I went first to Castle-street where he formerly lived, and ultimately to the Cafe National in Cranbourne-street, where I found him—I asked him to tell me to whom he had sent the check that I had given him on Friday, the 12th, for 8l. 6s.—he said he had sent it to the Holloway-road, St. John's Wood—I asked him the number of the house—he said he did not put any number; there was no number put on the letter—I told him that when he obtained the check from me he said he wished to send it to the City-road—he said he thought not, that he was not quite certain whether it was the City-road, the Holloway-road, or St. John's Wood, but he thought it was the Holloway-road
road—he seemed very much disconcerted by my questioning him, and asked me my motive for making these inquiries as to whom he sent the check—I told him that the check had been imitated, and one forged for 340l. had been presented at the London and Westminster Bank that day, and therefore it would be very important for his own character to let me know the party to whom he sent it—he said he would do so, that he would try if he could find out—he then told me how it was he came to send the check—he said he had received a letter demanding payment of the money—I then asked him if he had the letter directing him to send the money—he said no, he had destroyed it, he thought, he did not take care of it; he saw it was a demand for 8l. 6s. that he owed, and having sent it, he took no more care of the letter—he told me that the demand arose in this way, that a French gentleman seeing him change foreign money at his Cafe for one of his customers (he keeps the Café National) asked him to change some for him, and gave him some foreign money which came to 8l. 6s.—that on examination he told his friend he had not English money to pay the gentleman 8l. 6s.—the gentleman thereupon said it was of no consequence, he would take the money when he came again, leaving the French money in his hands—he did not come again, but wrote him a letter which he received on the Friday morning, stating that he was about leaving London for Paris, and he was to send him the amount in Post-office orders—I told him that it was very important that he should have kept that letter; I thought his mode of doing business was very careless, and begged of him to try and recollect to whom he had sent it, and I would call again on the Monday morning—this was on the Saturday—I went again on the Monday with Webb, the officer—Kessler said he had used all his endeavours, but he could not recollect where he had sent it; he had even borrowed a "Directory" to try if he could refresh his memory from that, and with that we left—I have never heard from him to whom he se'nt the check—I saw Gerber when he was discharged on 22nd at Marlborough-street—he said he knew the party by sight well that gave him the check, having seen him at the Argyll-rooms and different places of amusement.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. You say you went to the Cafe National, for the purpose of seeing Kessler? A. Yes; I believe he resides there—it is a house frequented by foreigners—I had been in the habit of doing business with Kessler before this, frequently—he has frequently been to us to get money changed—I believe there is one of our bills hanging up in the coffee-room at the Cafe National at our request—I do not think the place where Kessler resided appears in our books—we do not put down the names of parties with whom we change foreign money—it is a ready money transaction—when he came to get this change he took out several letters from his pocket, but I did not see any one in particular—I did not see one from a Mr. Asch—Mr. Asch's name was mentioned in the first instance—I put the money down on the counter—Kessler did not take it up, he left it there—he did not take the money up, and then come back—he did not, as he was going out, ask me if I thought they would grant a Post-office order for the whole of the money—he told me he had to send the money, and did I think it was too late for a Post-office order, and I said, "Yes" they did not grant them, I believed after 4 or half-past 4 o'clock—he had not partly left the shop before he asked me that—I am quite certain of that—when I said I thought it was too late to get a Post-office order, I did not then offer to give him a check, and say that I thought that would be the safest mode of conveying the money—he asked me the best mode—I did not offer him the check till he asked for it, I am quite certain of that—I asked him the name I was to make the check payable to, and he said, "John Asch," spelling it, "Asch"—he did
not ask me if it could be cashed in the City-road—he asked me whether it was necessary to register the letter—I said, "No, we never registered letters for so small a sum—when he left he did not make any observation about his going to post the letter—when I went to his house, I saw the place where he keeps his bills and letters, it is at the further end of the shop, as you go in, from Cranbourne-street—the house has two entrances, one in Cranbourne-street, and one in Newport-street—there were some letters on a rack, and a great number on a file, and in a sort of portfolio—when I asked him to look for the letter he examined those in the rack—there were about two or three in the raek—he then examined the letters on the file—there probably might have been twenty or thirty there—he did not examine them, he merely showed me where he kept important letters—he did not look on the file for this letter, but told me at once he had not got it, he had not taken care of it, as he deemed it of no importance—the letter rack is against the wall close to the bar—it was accessible to any persons that liked to go to it, in the house—I did not tell Kessler, I had only given two ehecks that week, I am quite sure of that—I did not ask Kessler to go to Marlborough-street when Gerber was there first, he offered to come—when I went on the Monday, I believe Webb asked him in my presence—I told him there was a person going to be examined at Marlborough-street relating to the forged check, and he called on me for the purpose of going to Marlborough-street—I told him it was much too early, and I did not intend going till I knew the case would come on—I have carried on business as a moneychanger in Coventry-street about fifteen years—I was formerly servant to Mr. Solomons, who was unfortunate some time ago in the gold dust robbery—Mr. Selim is my partner, his name was formerly Solomons—I was in Mr. Solomons' service at the time of the gold dust robbery.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. You say you had this conversation with Gerber after his discharge? A. Yes, opposite the Marlborough-street Court—there were one or two others present—he told me where he should be found if he was wanted, and that he would use every endeavour to find out this Mr. Sims—he described Mr. Sims's dress—I have not heard any one else describe Sims's dress since.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. How did he describe his dress? A. He said he was dressed very gentlemanly, and had a gold watch in his pocket, but the great thing was that he had a mole on his cheek, by which he should be able to identify him—he did not mention the colour of his hair—I did not see a Mr. Kirk in custody at the Mansion-house.
COURT. Q. When you asked Kessler to whom you should make the check payable he told you Mr. Asch? A. Yes; he told me to spell it Asch—I do not know anything of a Mr. Asch.
MR. DEARSLEY. Q. When Kessler came to you did he not state that he wanted the money for a foreign gentleman, and that he had received a letter from him asking him to send the money immediately? A. I do not recollect his saying he wanted the money for any particular person, only this John Asch, that he wanted it to send to the City-road—he did not mention any name till I was writing the check, and then I asked him to whom I should make it payable—he did not at any time say that the person to whom I was to make it payable was the same person to whom he wanted to send it.
JOSEPH NETHERCLIFT . I am a lithographic artist and printer, at 50, St. Martin's-iane. I have been in business nearly thirty years—I have made a comparison between the 8l. 6s. and the 340l. check—I have examined them with a magnifying glass, and with reference to the 340l. I assisted myself by the test of tracing-paper—I have examined it thoroughly in every part—I
find on the 340l. check a pencil mark, where the "T" in the word "Three" begins, as if there had been an intention to form it in another way; as if it had been made in pencil before it was done in ink—I also find a pencil dot forming the distance between the "Three" and "Hundred," as though I were to write the word "Three" and wished to occupy a certain space for it, and had previously made a dot where the next word was, to come—I also find a pencil line, a decided upstroke, to join the "f" to the "o" in the word "Forty"—I made a pencil fac simile, from the 8l. 6s. check of those words which were common to both checks, that is, the word "December," the "1" following it, and the "51" following the printed "18"—I also made a similar tracing of the signature, "Selim, Dean, and Co." to that check—I placed those pencil fac-similes upon the same words in the forged check, and each of them completely corresponded, in distance, width, and appearance—in my opinion the 340l. check was formed from the other—I found three marks of pinholes on both checks, at exactly the same spot in each, showing that the two had been fastened together for such a purpose—putting the pin-holes together, the written part of each check came exactly in the same place.
EDWARD BEDMORE . I am a clerk, in the St. James's Branch of the London and Westminster Bank. I cashed this check for 8l. 6s., dated 12th Dec, on 16th Dec.—I gave gold for it—I do not recollect to whom I cashed it—(the prisoner Krakauer was here brought forward)—I have seen that man at the bank, but do not recollect on what occasion—I believe I have cashed a check for him, but I will not swear it; I know he came to me for some purpose, and I believe it was that.
CHARLES WEBB re-examined. On 22nd Dec. I went with Mr. Dean to Kessler's, 24, Cranbourne-street; it is called the Cafe National—I asked Kessler, in Mr. Dean's presence, if he did not go to his shop in Coventry-street on the 12th, with some German and French money, to get changed into English money—he said he did—Mr. Dean then said that Kessler came to his shop on the 12th, about 5 o'clock in the evening, stating that a gentleman had left some German and French money with him, requesting him to get it changed, and that it was alter post time, and would Mr. Dean oblige him with a check; I told Kessler to be particular, that it was necessary I should know to whom he sent the money, or to whom he directed it—he asked what was the matter—I told him that another check had been presented at the London and Westminster Bank for 340l., which was an exact copy of the check he had received from Selim and Dean on the 12th, and asked him to try and tax his memory—he said he did not know where he had sent it, whether he sent it to the City-road, St. John's Wood, or anywhere else—I told him that the check which he had told Mr. Dean the gentleman wanted immediately, was not presented for payment until four days alter—he did not make any remark to that.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. At any time when you were at Kessler's did you see him searching for the letter? A. No; he took a bundle of papers from the raek, I think—I did not examine his books; I cannot say whether he keeps books.
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How often did you see Gerber after his discharge? A. Twice, I believe; he came to the station to see me, to ask if I would go with him in search of the man Sime, who gave him the check—I did not take him into custody afterwards—I only saw him that twice.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Did you go with him to search for the man that gave him the check? A. I did not; I went with him and the constable, Spittle, to Kirk's house; Gerber was then in Spittle's custody—it must have been some time in Jan.—Kirk keeps a public-house iu Clifford's-inn-passage
—he came into the bar where we were standing, and Gerber said, "How do you do, Mr. Sims?"—Kirk replied that his name was not Sims—they were about to get into some argument, I stopped them, and told Gerber, in the presence of Kirk, that he had stated at the Mansion-house that he was the person who gave him the check, but the constable had declined to apprehend him—I said to Gerber, "If that is the man that gave you the check we will apprehend him"—he said it was, and Kirk got into a cab, and went with me and Spittle to the police station in the City, where I left him in charge of Spittle—Kirk was at the Mansion-house the next day.
SOLOMON KRAKAUER (a prisoner, called. MR. PARRY requested that before the witness was sworn in the ordinary way, he might be permitted to examine him on the voir dire. MR. HUDDLESTON objected to this being done in the absence of any authority on the point, but the COURT was of opinion MR. PARRY had a right to take that course.) I believe I am jointly indicted with the three prisoners for this offence—(MR. PARRY submitted that the evidence of this witness could not be received, (he being a party included in the charge,) unless he in the first instance pleaded guilty, or a verdict of acquittal was taken; he was not aware of any precedent for the course now taken; the rule of law in civil cases prevented a party interested in the result from being examined as a witness; that rule applied with greater force to criminal proceedings, and to such a case as the present, where the witness was directly interested in the result of the evidence he was about to give. See Reg. v. Hinks, 2 Car., and Kirwan, 462, and Reg. v. Arundel, 4 Cock's Crim. Cases, 260. MR. JUSTICE WILLIAMS called the attention of counsel to a passage from Lord Hale, quoted in Russell, which stated that a party jointly indicted with others need not be put upon his trial at the same time with them. MR. DEARSLEY in urging the same objection, thought that the force of the passage from Lord Hale would depend very much upon whether the word "trial" was to be taken in its limited sense to mean the mere trial of the issue joined, or whether it was to be taken as including the plea, the arraignment, and other proceedings connected with it; if the latter construction was to prevail, he contended that the witness having been arraigned, and having pleaded, he was actually upon his trial, and that therefore it was too late for the prosecution to use him as a witness unless a verdict of acquittal were taken. MR. JUSTICE WILLIAMS was of opinion that no objection upon the latter point could be sustained; the prosecution were clearly entitled to apply, as they had done, that the witness might be tried separately, and that application (not opposed) having been granted, it could not he said that the witness was upon his trial, the Jury not being charged with his case; with respect to the first point, it had now been settled for considerably more than a century, that it was no objection to the competency of a witness, that he, being an accomplice, had received an implied or even an express promise of pardon; he had no doubt therefore that the evidence was receivable. The witness was then sivorn, and examined as follows:) I have known the prisoner, Wagner, between twelve and fifteen months, or the utmost, might be eighteen months—I have been in the habit of meeting him at his own house, and at Kessler's, 4, Leicester-street, Leicester-square—that is a coffee-house, and there is a room up stairs for gambling—some time previous to this transaction, Wagner said he could show me a way to make money if I would bring him signatures of people—he said, "If you can procure me signatures from people, and people to send for money, I can make money, and you can get your part out of it"—for a time I did not bring him any, but afterwards he had some signatures through me—I do not know that he did anything with those signatures he received through me, he did not tell me; he said they would be made use of, but I have not heard anything of it—previous to
this check being presented at the London and Westminster Bank, Wagner said to me, "I shall receive a check from Kessler on which we will use the signature, and get 340l. or 350l. money on the name (of Selim, Dean, and Co.,) at the London and Westminster Bank"—he did not mention, the name at that time—I knew that was the name when I saw the check—he said, "I shall get a blank check, and it will be done very soon, and engage me a party who is going for the money"—I said I would try to get a person—he said there would be 10 per cent, to pay away from the money for the blank check, and the rest would be divided into four parts, of which Wagner was to have a quarter, the writer of the check a quarter, and the informant who brought the check a quarter (that was Kessler), and a quarter for the man who went for the money—he said I must make a bargain with the person who was going for the money, what he would give me, if I could get half, well and good, if not I must take what I could get—I was to have as much of the fourth as I could get, the more the better for me—Wagner said the man who was to go and get the money was to advertise in a newspaper for a situation, with his real name and place of abode, whereupon he would receive a letter to call at a certain place, at a certain hour, to meet with an engagement; alter that he would receive at that place a note which would appoint a place where to meet a gentleman who wished to engage him; but he should not mind that appointment as I should instruct him further, as it was only done to save him from trouble, in case he was taken up, by uttering the check—he said I must instruct him further to ask for Mr. Sims; after receiving the note I was to instruct him to call the next day, and take the check to a certain place which I was to appoint—I have known Gerber several years; I saw him after I had this conversation with Wagner, and I told Gerber I had been ordered to get a man for a certain purpose, and if he would like to go for the money—he at first raised objections, but afterwards when I told him that I was instructed to telt him that the case was so arranged that in case he should be taken up nothing would happen to him, he was satisfied to go, telling me that he had no clothes to put on to appear respectable—I afterwards saw Wagner, and told him that I had got a man who would go for the money, but he had no clothes to put on, and was poor—Wagner said, "Cannot you give him a coat?"—I answered, "I have only got one, and that is a new one"—he told me to give him that coat, and I should get the money out of the amount that would be fetched, and he gave me at the same time 17s. or 18s. to give to Gerber to redeem his trowsers and waistcoat out of pledge—I gave the money to Gerber—I cashed this check for 8l. 6s. at the bank—I got it from Wagner—when he gave it me he asked me to get it cashed; I had seen it before at Wagner's—after Wagner had told me he would get a check from Kessler, he told me in case Kessler came to his house I was to leave the room, because Kessler would not like me to see it; because Kessler did not wish me to know he gave Wagner the check; he did not wish me to know him in the affair; that was before he gave me the check—Kessler came and I took my hat, said, "Good morning," and went out of the room—Kessler was with Wagner about half an hour, and then I was called back, but I cannot say whether it was by Wagner or the girl—when I got back Wagner showed me this check—he did not then give it me—I should say it was four or five days after that he gave it me, and I cashed it—this paper (the advertisement) is my writing—I wrote it in the coffee-house for Gerber—I told him I had a copy from Wagner how to write out the advertisement—I took him to the coffee-house to write the advertisement himself which I put before him—I had the copy from Wagner how to write it out, but Gerber not being able to spell it properly I said, "I
will write it for you myself, and you carry it there"—it was for the Morning Advertiser in Fleet-street—this is it—"As messenger or light porter, a young man twenty eight years of age, who writes a good hand, and has no ohjection to the country. Letters, post-paid, A.G. 34, Percy-street, Bagnigge-wells-road"—I gave that to Gerber, and gave him 2s. 6d. to pay for it—I gave him the coat he has on now; I went with him to buy a hat, and he had a satin stock of mine—I made an appointment with him that he should meet me nearly opposite Osmond's coffee-house in the Strand, at 1 o'clock on Friday—that is the coffee-house where he was to ask for Mr. Sims, according to the letter, and I took him I believe on Thursday up the Strand to show him the house—Wagner told me to make an appointment with Gerber at a certain place which I was to choose, and inform Wagner where it was, and he would wait at a little distance and follow us to the bank—that was on the Saturday—I had made an appointment with Wagner to meet him at his house on the Friday as usual—I met him at his house, 85, Long Acre, on the Friday about 11, and after 12, I am not sure what time it was, I left the house with him for the purpose of going to Osmond's coffee-house—we left the house going towards the Strand—I do not know the names of the streets where we passed, but I know there is on one side a very large urinary going up to Drury-lane—when we got near there the officer Jervis met us, and I told Wagner, "For God's sake there is Jervis coming! I had better go away," and I went away from him up the urinary—I knew Jervis—when I came up the Strand, at the corner of the Strand and that street, I met Gerber and took him into the Crown public-house, which I believe is opposite Osmond's coffee-house—Wagner said he was going to Osmond's coffee-house to leave the note there—while we were in the public-house we bad some pale ale and bread and cheese, and not long after, about 1 o'clock, Wagner came in and called for something, and I told Gerber, "Now it is time for you to go;" Wagner did not tell me where he had been to before he came there, but I noticed—I told Gerber it was time for him to go to Osmond's, as he would find a note there—Wagner had told me he was going to leave that note there—that was before I left in the morning—I went with Gerber at the door, to send him out—I told him as soon as he got the note to follow me up the street right opposite, the street that leads to Covent-garden market—I then came out opposite Osmond's, and turned back again to that street, and walked slowly on—I left Wagner in the public-house—he came after me, and passed me—he did not join me—he said, "It is all right; I have seen him; I am going home," and passed on—Gerber followed me, and I kept in advance of him till we came to Covent-garden, where I turned the corner sharp, and waited at the corner—when he came up I told him, not stopping with him, to meet me that night at my house—he met me at my house that evening, and I told him to call in the morning, I believe at 9 or a little after, at the Giant in Drury-lane—on the Saturday I went to Wagner's about 9, and he placed a check in my hands and some bags—this is the check he gave me (the forged one), and these are the bags—hesajd, "You place that check in Gerber's hands, and tell him to go for the money; let him ask for ten twenties, and the rest in gold, and you show him the place, and I shall follow you," and the notes were to be taken to the Bank of England, to be changed, or to several money changers for foreign money, and he said that Gerber was to go first to the money changers in the Hay market, and get foreign money for part, and that if he got the money, after that he might know him, Wagner—he did not know him at all until they were placed together at the Mansion-house—Wagner had seen Gerber at the public-house—Wagner said that in case Gerber did not get the money he was to say that a gentleman had sent him, a dark gentleman
with black whiskers, and some description, and to appoint a particular mark in his face, so that he should not be found, as he said they would take him about to look for the man who sent him—I went to the Giant to meet Gerber, and Wagner followed me—when I got to the Giant, Gerber was waiting opposite—I went in, and he followed me—he had some pale ale, and I placed the check and the bags in his hand, and walked on with him towards the Bank, Wagner following—Gerber went to the London and Westminster Bank—he had on my coat, which was a sort of mixture—when he went into the bank, me and Wagner were waiting outside—we were not together—we walked up and down the street, and into the square—once or twice he came over and spoke to me, and then we separated again—I saw a policeman go into the bank—I told Wagner, and We then left—Gerber was discharged from the police-court on the Tuesday—after that Wagner told me that I should not take the coat away from Gerber, I should let him keep it, and he would give me a sovereign to give to Gerber, and he, Wagner, would give me another coat—on the Friday following he went with me to Mr. Bullock's, and bought me a coat, and another on the Monday—Mr. Bullock's is No. 2, some street of which I do not know the name—it leads into Long-acre—he bought two coats for me, and one for himself.
Q. Have you had any conversation with Kessler since you have been in prison? A. Yes; I asked him why he had done it in such a foolish way; he ought to know better—he answered, "How could I know? if I had known it would come to that, I should not have done it at all" or "would not have got the check at all."
Cross-examined by MR. COOPER. Q. How long have you been in this country? A. Ten or twelve years; I was a clerk in a wholesale house before I came here; I was always a clerk, till I began in business for myself—I carried on a wholesale cloth business myself before I came here—I got reduced; at least, my father lost a great deal of money in the wool business, by buying a quantity of wool which fell in price, and he lost a great deal of money, and being considered a very honest man, he sold all his stock in trade, and paid his creditors, and left himself with very little, so that I could not carry on the business any further—that was not exactly the reason of my coming to this country—I was then about twenty-two or twenty-three years old; I was about twenty-one when I left off business; after that, I was a soldier; I was obliged to serve; we are all obliged to serve in our country, from the twentieth year, three years—when I was discharged I had not enough means to carry on the same business as I did before, and I thought to go into business here, on a smaller scale than I should have liked to commence with abroad—I set up here in jewellery—I brought plenty of German money over with me, with which I set up—I have never been in trouble before this—I was at the Mansion-house at the same time as the other three prisoners—I believe these papers which were found in Gerber's pocket were shown each time—I believe they were read—the case was gone into four times, I believe—the advertisement was not read—I do not know whether it was shown or not—I told Gerber it was so arranged that if they took him nothing would happen—I will not undertake to say how many days that was before the check was presented—I cannot recount the very words I said to him, but that was the sense of it—I first mentioned what I have stated to-day, to my solicitor, when I was at the Compter—I had been in gaol about three weeks—by standing in this box, instead of standing with the three other men, I expect to go home to my family again; I expect to get free.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. This conversation that you had with Kessler in the gaol was after the whole thing had been investigated? A. Yes.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. When was it you first expected to become a witness, how long ago? A. I cannot say; I cannot tell within a day or two, because I have made no memorandum of it—it was not yesterday, or the day before; it was very long before that—I have not communicated with the prosecutors' at all—I should say I first put myself forward to become a witness after the fourth examination—I cannot remember whether I had done so before the examinations at the police office were concluded, my solicitor knows best what day it was—it has not made any impression on my mind, because my mind was bewildered at the time—I cannot tell you, without I deviate from the truth—I cannot say what day or what week it was—I am thirty-five years old—I was never in any trouble abroad—I have never been bankrupt, or insolvent—I have never been in any trouble here—I have been before a police Magistrate here; it was through a statement I had made, in joking with some of my friends—I was charged on my own accusation of receiving some money of a person who committed a robbery; what I said was false—a man committed a robbery of some jewellery, and as I was acquainted with him, other travellers came round about me in a sneering way, and said, "I dare say you know all about it?"—I said, "Well, I do; what is that to you?"—they said, "I dare say you have got all the money?"—I said, "Well, if I have, you won't have any of it;" and through saying that, I was taken up—the Lord Mayor examined the witnesses, and seeing directly how it was, he told me it was a very foolish joke to make, and it was a right punishment for me to be taken up, and he discharged me immediately—that is several years ago—I have not, to my knowledge, been before a police Magistrate on any other occasion—I have been employed as an interpreter at many police-courts, but not in any other way—I would not forget it if it was so—I never was charged before a police Magistrate—the other was the only thing that I remember—do you mean here in London, or in England?—I have not in London, to my knowledge—in fact, I am quite sure I have not been taken up on any other charge, either in London or in England—the last place I resided at in Prussia, was at Berlin—I swear I was not a bankrupt there, or in any trouble—I was never before the police there, or in the hands of the police—till I became acquainted with Kessler and Wagner, my character always bore the strictest investigation—I was never charged with robbing a man at play; it was winning about 6l. from a man; the man did not charge me; the inspector would not take the charge—I offered the inspector to call on the Lord Mayor, if he required it—the man did not charge me with robbing or cheating him of money at cards—I had been playing at cards with him at my own house—there were two friends of mine, and we played a game, perhaps, for a halfpenny or a penny—I have never been charged by any one else with winning money at cards; I swear that—I have been in the habit of playing at cards lately, to my sorrow.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. How long ago was this business about the jewellery, which you say was the result of a joke? A. Five or six years ago.
JURY. Q. Why were you so anxious to avoid the officer, when you said, "Here comes Jarvis?" A. Because I suppose my conscience told me that perhaps we were watched.
know where Kessler lived—on 6th Dec. I saw Wagner go to Reader's—he stayed there about an hour—I saw him go there again on the 9th, in company with Krakauer—Wagner carried a directory under his arm—I was quite close behind him, and know it was a directory—when they came to Kessler's, Krakauer remained outside—Wagner remained there a few minutes, and when he came out he joined Krakauer—Wagner lived at 85, Longacre—on 19th Dec. I saw Krakauer, in company with Wagner, go to a public-house, at the corner of Vinegar-yard, Brydges-street, Drury-lane—it was about twenty minutes past 12 o'clock when they left Wagner's house—I had seen Krakauer go there about 11—they went from Long-acre, through Bow-street and Russell-street, turning into Brydges-street to the Drury-lane tavern opposite Drury-lane theatre, going in the direction of the Strand, and in the direction of Osmond's coffee-house—Drury-lane tavern is at the corner of Vinegar-yard, the front of it is in Brydges-street—I left them there—after about an hour I returned to my former position in Long-acre, and saw Wagner go into a public-house in Long-acre—that was about half-past 2, I think—I was in company with Jarvis, both times—I know Kessler—I have frequently seen him go into Wagner's-house, almost daily I should say—I was watching the movements of Wagner and Krakauer from the beginning of Dec. till about 4th of Jan., the day we took them into custody—when I saw Krakauer, on 19th Dec, he had a gray Witney coat on.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Did you see Wagner go into a public-house, in Drury-lane, on the 19th Dec.? A. I did not see him go in, but I saw him from the outside, after he was in—it was about twenty-five minutes past 12 o'clock—I did not see Krakauer go in—the front of this tavern is in Brydges-street, and a portion of it fronts Drury-lane theatre—it is where the urinal is at the side of Drury-lane—I stayed watching two or three minutes—I went some distance through the lane, returned again and left, because I did not want them to see me—I did not stay watching as much as ten or twelve minutes—Wagner wore a black frock coat, and a hat—he had no great coat, and he had no whiskers—I have never said that after watching for ten minutes I missed Wagner—I never said anything about ten minutes—I missed them for a moment, at the corner of Vinegar-yard, and then saw Wagner in the public-house from the outside—I did not see any more of Krakauer until I returned to Long-acre, about an hour and a half afterwards.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. When you have seen Kessler going into Wagner's house, have you seen him carrying newspapers either in going in or out? A. I saw him once carrying newspapers in his hand into Wagner's—I know that he takes in a great number of foreign papers at his cafe—I do not know that he lets those papers out to foreigners—such might be the case.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. How long have you known Wagner? A. I first saw him about 1st or 2nd Dec.—I have never seen him with whiskers.
WILLIAM JARVIS (City policeman, 25). On 8th Dec, from instructions I received, I was engaged with Badcock to watch Wagner's lodgings, No. 85, Long-acre—I know Krakauer—Wagner occupied the second floor—I have seen Krakauer in that second floor with Wagner, I believe daily, from 8th Dec. until 4th Jan.—I know Kessler—I often saw him go to Wagner's from 8th Dec. to 4th Jan.—before the 13th Dec. Krakauer was in the habit of wearing a gray Witney coat—on 13th Dec. I saw him with a kind of brown mixture coat—he wore that from that date I believe up to the 16th or 17th—I believe I should know the coat again—(Lovett here produced a coat)—I believe that is the coat—after the 16th he wore the same gray Witney coat I
had seen him in before—on 19th Dec., I saw Krakauer go to Wagner's at 11 o'clock, and leave at half past, in company with another man (I am now referring to notes I made at the time)—Krakauer returned alone to Wagner's, about five minutes after—about 20 minutes past 12 Krakauer and Wagner came out together, and me and Badcock followed them down Bow-street, Russell-street, into Brydges-street, in the direction of the Strand—I saw Wagner go into the Drury tavern at the corner of Vinegar-yard—I met Krakauer coming out of the urinal—he said, "Good morning" to me, and finding we were discovered I went back to my former position in Longacre—Wagner was dressed in a dark frock coat, dark trowsers, and hat—he had no whiskers—I have seen him with whiskers—he returned home about a quarter past 1, and at 20 minutes past 1 I saw Krakauer at Wagner's door, with Gerber, walking together—they turned up Charles-street—I believe Gerber then had on this brown coat—I had seen Krakauer wearing it—at about a quarter to 2 Krakauer returned—I saw him and Wagner cross over to Wagner's house together—on Tuesday, 23rd, I went to Marlborough-street, and there saw Gerber in custody—he was then wearing this coat, I believe—on Sunday, 4th Jan., I took Gerber into custody again at 18, Hutcbinson's-market, Gravel-lane, Houndsditch, where Krakauer lives.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. Have you ever seen Kessler go into Wagner's with newspapers? A. I have, I believe, once, and I have seen him come out with a newspaper—I believe that was on the same occasion, 13th Dec.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You say you saw Wagner leave his house at about 20 minutes past 12 o'clock? A. Yes; I followed him to this tavern—I did not keep my eye on him while he was in the tavern—I saw him return to his house about a quarter past 1—Badcock was not with me.
SARAH DUNK . I am waitress, at Osmond's coffee-house in the Strand. On 19th Dec. I remember a person coming there, and ordering a chop—it was the prisoner Wagner—he said, "If any one inquires for a Mr. Sims, send him in to me"—no one came and inquired while he was taking his chop—after he had taken it, and paid for it, he called for a sheet of paper—I got it him, and then I left the room—when I returned to the room, he gave me this paper (looking at it), and told me to give it to any one that might come and inquire for Mr. Sims—he then left the house, and about ten minutes after Gerber came and said, "Is Mr. Sims here?"—I said, "No, he is gone, but he has left you this strip of paper," and I handed it to him—he read the paper, said "Thank you," and left the house—after Wagner had left, I observed he had left half a sheet of the paper which I had got for him on the table—the note I received from Wagner was no part of that paper—I cannot state the exact time Wagner was there—it was about from half past 12 to 1 o'clock—he wore a coat that came round and buttoned over—I call it a dress coat—his hair was rather dark—I have not the least doubt Wagner is the man, I am sure of it.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You have always been as positive as you are now, have you not? A. Yes; I am sure he is the man—he was brought to me by a policeman—when I saw him I did not say I could not tell whether he was the man or not; I said I believed him to be the man—I did not know him till he sat down, and took his hat off—the policeman asked if I knew him—I said I could not recognise him till he went and sat down, and took his hat off—the policeman brought him with his hat on—I did not know the policeman was going to bring him—I did not fail to recognise him
until the policeman made some remark—I did not answer until I took his hat off—I had seen him about a minute before he had his hat off—he had a coat on that buttons over, and comes round the legs, not such a coat as a gentleman wears at an evening party to dance in—I have an impression that he had whiskers, I do not know that he had—I have said I believed he had—it is not from his whiskers that I identify him, it is from his features.
JOHN WALTER . I am in the establishment of the Morning Advertiser, 127, Fleet-street. This is a receipt for 2s. 6d. for an advertisement in that paper—it was given by me on 13th Dec.—this is the advertisement for which I gave it—the checks were here read—"No. 6725; Westminster Branch, London, 12, 1851. London and Westminster Bank, No. 1, St. James's-square; pay to Mr. J. Sims, or bearer, three hundred and forty pounds: Selim, Dean, and Co. 340l."—"No. 6723; Westminster Branch, London, Dec. 12, 1851. London and Westminster Bank, No. 1, St. James's-square; pay to Mr. John Asch, or bearer, eight pounds six shillings. Selim, Dean and Co. 8l. 6s."
JOHN SPITTLE (City-policeman, 9). On 2nd Jan. I saw Krakauer at the Mansion-house—Gerber had then been discharged—Krakauer said that Gerber had on his coat when he was taken into custody—Gerber was again in custody on 4th Jan., and he then said that Kirk was the man he had met at the Duke of York's Column, and who gave him the check—he repeated that again before the Lord Mayor, on 13th Jan.—on 13th Jan. I took him to Kirk's house, Kirk was at home, and Gerber said, "How do you do, Mr. Sims?"—Kirk said, "You are mistaken, my name is not Sims"—Gerber said, "Oh, no I am not, you met me at the Duke of York's Column"—Kirk said, "I never saw you before to my recollection;" and I then stopped the conversation—Kirk was afterwards produced before him at the Mansion-house.
WILLIAM JOHN JOSEPH KIRK . I keep a tavern, in Clifford's Inn-passage, Fleet-street. I had never seen Gerber, to my knowledge, before he was brought to my house by the police—I never met him at the Duke of York's Column—I never directed him to come to me at Osmond's coffee-house—I never gave him a check for 340l., or any other sum, to get cashed for me at the London and Westminster Bank, and I did not give him any bags to bring the money in.
LOVETT. I am in the service of Mr. Pugh, pawnbroker, of Bagnigge-wells-road. This brown mixture coat was pledged at our house—I did not take it in myself, but I was present in the shop at the time—this duplicate (produced by Badcock) is the fellow to the one I now have, having reference to the coat—it was pledged by Gerber on 27th Dec. for 12s.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. You have sold other coats like that from the same cloth? A. No; not of this make.
JOHN BULLOCK . I am a tailor, of 3, Castle-street, Long-acre. About two months ago I sold Wagner three coats—there was another person with him at the time (looking at Krakauer)—that is him—I believe Krakauer went away with one of them on.
GERBER— GUILTY . Aged 29.
WAGNER— GUILTY . Aged 37
KESSLER— GUILTY . Aged 33.
A verdict of Acquittal was subsequently taken with respect to Krakauer.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, February 26th, 1852.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald. SIDNEY; Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
323. CHARLES NASH was indicted for feloniously forging a transfer of 196 shares in the capital stock of the Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow, and Dublin Railway Company, with intent to defraud.—2nd COUNT, uttering the same.
MESSRS BALLANTINE and HUDDLESTON conducted the Prosecution.
PETER HANSTOCK . I formerly lived at Ballycale; I now live at Fenmore, in Wexford county. In the month of Sept., 1850, I was at Ballycale; in May, 1851, I was in the farm of Kilmory—I did not at that time rent a farm of Mr. Hamilton; I was steward to him—I was never in London in my life till I came up as a witness on this transaction—in Sept., 1850, I saw Mr. Nash on my own land, at Ballycale—he told me he had come on business of the railway, to obtain proxy votes, and he asked me to sign a proxy paper—he said it was for some meeting that was to ensue soon afterwards—he said it was in Captain Owen and Lord Courtown's interest—I had received 196 shares in the Waterford, Wexford, and Wicklow Railway Company, from Captain Owen—I told him I should not wish to sign the paper without letting Captain Owen know—he ridiculed me for my fears with regard to hesitating to sign the paper—after some more solicitation, I signed the paper.
COURT. Q. Did you read the paper? A. No.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Did you see the paper that you signed? A. I did; it was partly written and partly printed—the ink I signed it with, was fetched from my own house—the ink was black; I had no red ink—it was signed in the open field—I wished Mr. Nash to come to the house to sign the paper at the house—he said there was no occasion, he was in such a hurry—the paper I signed had no seals to it—this is not the paper (looking at the transfer)—this is not my signature—I deny that signature—in the course of conversation with him at that time, I told him I thought I should see Captain Owen in the morning; and he said he could not wait—my father was with me when I signed the paper.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. Q. What time of the day was this? A. It was after sunset; Mr. Nash was not in a car at the time I saw him—he was walking, but there was a car close by, waiting—I am tenant to the Earl of Courtown—Captain Owen is his land-agent—I pay my rent to the agent—I never bought any shares in my life—I never paid 6d. for a share in my life, nor a halfpenny—I paid 26l. a year altogether for my farm—I always paid it, certainly—this occurred in Sept., 1850—I told Captain Owen about this; I cannot tell how long afterwards; I think three weeks or a month afterwards—I cannot tell how long it was after that, that anything was asked me about this conversation—my father was present at the time I signed the paper—I cannot tell whether he heard the whole conversation—I do not recollect that Nash told me that the company was going to wind up—I received a letter from him, which I have lost—I cannot say that he told me in that letter that he wanted the numbers of the shares, as he could not register them without it—Mr. Nash did not tell me at that time that he wanted me to sign over my shares to him, they were worthless—there was not one word said about signing over—he told me he was acting for the directors of the company; that Captain Owen and Lord Courtown were all going to act friendly together—I do not remember his saying anything about winding up—he did not tell me I had got into a liability by holding these shares, and I had better
get rid of it—he did not tell me I was very likely to have some calls made upon me—I remember signing the paper—that was all that he wanted with me.
Q. Look at the back of this paper, turn it all round, do you see "Peter Hanstock" there? A. Yes; it is my writing—I do not know when I wrote it—immediately Mr. Nash wished me good-night he went away to the car, and drove off at once—he told me he was in a hurry—I do not know that that very day he visited several of my neighbours—I have heard that since—I cannot tell who were shareholders in the neighbourhood—I do not know anything about taking these shares to oblige Captain Owen.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. I believe some time ago you made an affidavit, were there some proceedings taken with regard to this matter? A. Yes; it was then I signed my name to this—I do not know the day, but it was in Wexford, that I did it—that is about two months ago—I have heard that the prisoner visited my neighbours—I have not heard what he did when he visited them—about three weeks after this transaction took place I told Capt. Owen I had signed a paper for Mr. Nash, and he said I did wrong—since signing that paper I have voted in this company; I voted in Captain Owen's interest, and for Lord Courtown; I voted as they wished me.
COURT. Q. You said that the ink was brought from your house? A. Yes; a little boy fetched it, that was with us at the time—I asked the prisoner to come to the house to sign the paper, and he said there was no occasion, he was in such a harry—the little boy ran to the house for the ink—the house was about 100 perches off.
GEORGE HANSTOCK . I live at Ballycale, in the county of Wexford—I am a farmer there—the last witness is my son—I remember in Sep. 1850, a man calling himself Nash or Mr. Nash coming and speaking to my son—I think the prisoner is the man—he appears to me rather darker now than he did then—I think be appeared rather more lively, and brighter then—he was on my land—I and my son were coming out from an out farm I had at my house, and we met this man calling himself Nash, or Mr. Nash, and he said, "Are you Hanstock, or Mr. Hanstock?"—I said, I was, and then he spoke something about the railroad or railway—I told him I had nothing to do with it, It was my son—my son was just coming up behind me, and he spoke to ray son about it—I heard something about what he said—he spoke to him about signing a paper—I saw my son sign a paper—I noticed the paper—this is not the paper he signed (looking at it)—there was not near so much writing on the paper I saw, to the best of my opinion—I saw some of it, but whether it was printing or writing, or both, I do not know—there were no seals on the paper—there was no red ink in my house—I was not in the habit of getting red ink at all.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Does your son hold land under Lord Courtown? A. Yes, he does not work for me only, but holds land himself—I cannot tell whether he has paid anything upon these shares, or for them—I do not know that he has—I never held shares for Captain Owen—I have not been asked.
Q. Suppose he had 196 shares, and a call of 2l. per share, that would be rather a heavy sum for your son to pay; do you know sufficient of his circumstances, if he was asked to pay 2l. per share, that would be 392l., that he would be able to do it? A. I do not know whether he would be able or no—we were living together at the time of this transaction—he had a house of his own, which he had of a man he was with, but he was living with me—his wife was not living with me, I suppose he is not married yet; I only know, to the best of. my opinion—it was a little boy belonging to my house who fetched the ink—I do not know exactly how long ray son
has rented this land—there is a house upon it—that is where I live, upon my son's land—I have a house myself—I have no land now, at that time I had—I was examined the other day.
Q. Were not the words Mr. Nash said to your son that he wanted some papers; that he wanted your son to sign over some papers; or was not he speaking about some papers to be signed over by your son to him? A. No; I never heard him speak a word about signing over, but I took it to be signing over, and that was what made me apply that word—I thought there was no distinction between signing over and signing the paper—I thought he was getting my son to put his name to the paper, and I took it to be signing over; but I never heard him speak a word about signing over, neither Mr. Nash, nor my son—I heard something about shares, but I cannot exactly tell what—I did not distinctly hear him speak about 196 shares that my son had—I heard something about shares, which I do not recollect—I know my son was not willing to do it—he asked Mr. Nash whether it would not do in the morning—he said, "I would rather see Captain Owen," and Mr. Nash said it was for the interest of Captain Owen and Lord Courtown he was doing it, and I told my son I thought he need not hesitate about signing it.
Q. Did you hear any conversation about Captain Owen having put the shares on your son, who was a pauper? A. My son was not a pauper, Sir.
Q. I do not mean to offend you, I only ask you whether you heard any conversation of that sort, that Captain Owen had put the shares on your son, and if he were called upon to pay, it would ruin him? A. I heard him talk about shares, but I cannot distinctly tell what.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. You signed nothing yourself, did you? A. No.
CAPTAIN ROBERT OWEN . I live in the county of Wexford. I am agent for Lord Courtown—I know Hanstock, he is a tenant of Lord Courtown—I think I have seen the defendant at some of the meetings of the company—I never gave him authority to obtain transfers of shares or proxies from any person whatever.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Were you connected closely with this railway? A. I was one of the original promoters of it—I have heard that Mr. Nash for a long time represented a great body of the shareholders, that were acting against us—I do not know whether he has personally been in litigation with the company—I have heard his name connected with it—there was an opposition—it is impossible for me to know what they were anxious about—I believe the expressed and avowed object of their opposition was for the purpose of winding up the company; I do not know it—I do not know the distinction between belief and knowledge—I certainly have not been a party to any agreement, which was not afterwards carried out, for winding up this company in 1850—I was originally a holder of fifty shares, which I paid for—I was afterwards a holder of 150 more—I never was the holder of more than 200 shares—I am not owner of any shares now—196 of them were in Peter Hanstock's bands—no satisfaction passed for them—I knew he was not able to meet a call of 2l. a share on them—I did not compel him to take them, certainly not—I collect Lord Courtown's rents, and manage his property—I did not let this farm to Peter Hanstock—I found his father the tenant of it—the young man is the tenant now—his father has assigned to him—I asked him to take these shares—when I gave over these 196 shares to Peter Hanstock it certainly was not for the purpose of avoiding any future liabilities upon them—there was not the smallest secret understanding between me and him—I had every confidence that if at any time I wished to resume them, he would let me have them—that was not the bargain—nothing of that kind was said by me to him—I had every confidence
that I could have them back whenever I asked for them—there is a call of 2l. a share on them—I am sure Hanstock would not be able to pay it—it is my present intention to pay them—it may be altered—I mean I have not bought them, and I cannot possibly tell—the call has been made on all the shareholders—I have nothing to do with the management of the railway; I had—Lord Courtown is the chairman—I know he has not got rid of his shares, not one—I had at one time something to do with the management—I was paid as a valuator—I received a salary to value and purchase land for them—it was not an appointment, permanently—whenever they wanted land I valued and purchased it—I cannot call to mind when I made the last purchase for them—I am not in their employment at preaent; there is another person appointed—I do not pay the expenses of this prosecution; the company does—I am not a director—I do not know that any of the directors have passed away their shares.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. How long have you been agent to Lord Courtown? A. Upwards of twenty years; I have been a Magistrate of the county about thirty-five years—I am perfectly acquainted with the value of land in that neighbourhood—the railway would have passed through the neighbourhood I reside in—I acted for the company, to give them my opinion of the value and to make the purchases—I was paid no stated salary; I was paid by the day—I have paid up all on my original fifty shares—the others I bought at different periods a considerable time ago, I do not recollect when—the calls are all paid up except the present call—I transferred the shares to Peter Hanstock, as I had reason to believe that I had been selected with a few others, as an object to bring an action against, and it was with a view to rid myself of the unpleasantness of such an action, that I transferred the shares—it was not an action by the company.
GEORGE WILLIS . I am clerk in the office of the Dublin and Wicklow Railway Company—it used to be the Waterford, Wicklow, Wexford and Dublin Railway Company—I produce the sealed register of that Company. (Mr. Cole objected to this book being received as any evidence of Hanstock's being a shareholder, that must either be done by proving him to be an original subscriber, or that he obtained the shares by transfer; that the book tendered was an irregular book, not kept in accordance with the provisions of 8 Vic. c. 16, which required it to be authenticated by the common seal of the Company.)
Q. Is that a book kept by the company? A. It is a book that was prepared for the last half-yearly meeting—it is the book in which the names of the proprietors are registered—it is kept at the office of the company, 409, West Strand—it is a book in which the names of the shareholders of the company are registered—a book similar to this is prepared for every half-yearly meeting—I find the name of Peter Hanstock in this book.
COURT. Q. Has this book the seal of the company? A. Yes; I am acquainted with the seal of the company—the proceedings of the meeting, the resolutions, are entered in a minute book.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Take that book; is that a book which is kept as a register of the Waterford, Wexford, and Wicklow Railway Company; is that the register of shareholders? A. This is the register of shareholders; it is kept in that capacity—I find in it the name of Peter Hanstock—this book has the seal of the company—on the foundation of this book Peter Hanstock would he treated as a shareholder—I am obliged, under the Railway Clauses' Consolidation Act, to keep a register of transfers—this (looking at it) is the book I so keep—I find here a transfer from Robert Owen to Peter Hanstock, of 196 shares.
COURT. Q. What is the entry? A. The book has a printed heading, and
in entering the transfers we follow the printed beading; it is, "Transfer register, number, date, name, shares, conveyance, residence, description, to whom transferred, description"—the entry is, "321, July 29th 1850"—there is an enumeration of 196 shares as they are set out in the transfer deed, "July 22nd," referring to the date of conveyance, "Robert Owen, Marlfield, County of Wexford, to Peter Hanstock of Ballycale, County of Wexford."
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Is this transfer produced from your office? (handing a paper to the witness.) A. Yes; and upon that the entry in the register takes place.
MR. COLE, on looking at this transfer, objected to its being received, unless the attesting witnesses, whose names appeared to it, were called.
MR. BALLANTINE did not tender the transfer as proof of the title of Hanstock, but merely to show his being in a position prima facie to assign; that he was in point of fact a registered shareholder; whether he was registered on a good foundation or not, was immaterial. MR. COLE, pressing his objection, the RECORDER, after consulting with Mr. Justice Williams, was of opinion that if it was necessary to prove the assignment to Hanstock, it must be done in the regular wag, by producing the attesting witnesses.)
Q. Do you produce this document (the one alleged to be forged) from your office? A. I do; I received it on 16th Aug., 1851—I know Nash's handwriting—I believe this to be his writing—the body of it appears to be his; it is the same handwriting as the rest—the attestation I believe to be his, and the date, the 31st May—the date of the stamp is 6th June, 1851.
Q. Look at this other document (a notice to register); in whose hand-writing is this? A. I do not know the writing of the body of the paper—it bears Mr. Nash's signature, which I believe is his writing. (The transfer being read, was a transfer by Peter Hanstock to Edward Pearce, of Chester-street, Greenwich, for the consideration of the sum of 5s., of 196 shares of 26l. each, in the Waterford, Wexford, and Wicklow Railway Company, subject to the conditions on which he held the same; Edward Pearce agreeing to accept the same; signed, Peter Hanstock and Edward Pearce, in the presence of Charles Nash, 2, Parliament-street, 31st May, and attested in Parliament-street, London. The notice to register the shares was also read, dated Westminster, Nov. 7, 1851, and signed, "C Nash, for Edward Pearce and self;" to which were appended a number of names, among which was "Edward Pearce," and "Hanstock to ditto."
Q. Now, I believe Pearce has never been registered as a proprietor under this supposed transfer? A. No; two of those names are registered, but not for Hanstock.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. Q. I believe you were the manager of this railway company? A. I am clerk or book keeper—I have been so some years—the company never had an office to itself, it had a room—it has the run of a house, not quite so much room as it had—I have known Mr. Nash some years—he was clerk to Swaine and Stevens, the solicitors for the Great Western Railway—as far as I know he was an active and zealous officer—I had not much to do with him—he left Swaine, Stevens, and Co.—I do not know that he was subsequently engaged in opposition to them in the battle of the gauges—he has been for some time engaged in litigation with the three W.'s Railway—he has been acting for a great many shareholders in that railway, and many of them large ones—I believe the object of certain shareholders was to drive the directors to wind up the company—he has acted as a Parliamentary agent—the matter of winding up the company has been considered—I do not know that the directors agreed to it—I do not know as a positive fact that Messrs. Hunt consented that if a requisition
was signed by a sufficient number of shareholders, they would wind up the company—I believe that was the case—that afterwards was not carried out—in Sept., 1850, the shares in that company were not marketable—I am not aware that a great number of persons transferred their shares to paupers—the prisoner sent me a number of transfers, over a period of two or three months—only two of them were registered out of a number of about thirty—no shares can be transferred without the numbers of the shares being given—I decline to register them unless they are complete, and they are not complete without the numbers—that was one of my objections, and the objections to some were the difference between the great period which had elapsed between the period of the execution and the date of the stamp—Mr. Nash told me he would get them re-executed if I wished it—I do not recollect that he told me that he took blank transfers in many cases, and afterwards filled them up—I cannot tell that that was the fact; I might have my own suppositions—a transfer is brought to me, and I then look whether I consider it regular or irregular; if I consider it irregular, I refer it to the solicitor, which I did in the case of all that I received from Mr. Nash.
Q. Do you remember having a conversation with him, and saying, "These are dated, attested by you in 1851, and you were in London at that time," and his saying, "No, I took them when I was in Ireland in 1850?" A. Yes; I think I do, but that does not apply to all—I believe I pointed out the discrepancy—I do not remember his saying that the people gave them to him in blank to fill up afterwards—I remember his applying to me for the numbers that he might apply to parties on the subject—in many cases I refused to give him the numbers—I think I gave him the numbers in one or two cases on written authorities, and refused them in others—the cost of a transfer depends upon circumstances—the registration-fee is half-a-crown, and the other is regulated by the amount of consideration—I have not got the book of the minutes of proceedings here.
Q. I believe Mr. Nash has continued attending the meetings, and acting on behalf of certain shareholders, down to the time he was apprehended? A. He has not been at the two last meetings I think, in Aug. and the previous Feb.—there is an action pending which he figures in; but whether he is solicitor or not, I do not know—I cannot say I know that there are several actions promoted by him at the present moment; he is not a solicitor—a recent Chancery suit has been crushed, in which he was in some way concerned—I cannot of my own positive knowledge tell you whether he was the plaintiff in it.
JOHN EVESON . I am clerk in the office of the Queen's Bench Prison. The prisoner was in confinement there from 15th May, 1851, to 16th Sept. 1851—he was remanded from the Insolvent Debtors' Court for eight calendar months.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. Q. What was he there for? A. For debt—I do not know whether it was a debt of the Great Western Railway Company—that would not appear by my books.
STEPHEN THORNTON (police-sergeant, A 26). I took the prisoner into custody—Peter Hanstock was with me, and Kenny was with me—I told the prisoner he was charged by Peter Hanstock with forging his name to a transfer in the Waterford, Wexford, Wicklow, and Dublin Railway, and by that means obtaining 163 shares—he said it was a mistake, it was not him, it was his father, and they signed it in a field, and they fetched their own ink—at that time the father was not in this country.
Cross-examined by MR. COLE. Q. He said, "Why, that is a mistake; it was his father?" A. Yes; that was, Hanstock's father, that he got the transfers from the father not the son.
MR. COLE submitted that there was no evidence to prove that Hanstock was
a shareholder; the only way in which that could be proved was by putting in the transfer to Hanstock, and showing it to have been duly stamped and submitted to the general meeting, as provided for by the Act; that the transfer book was not evidence in criminal cases, but only in actions for calls; and further, that there was no evidence of the prisoner having attempted to defraud any individual whatever. The COURT considered the register book admissable, and that it was only necessary to prove that Hanstock's name appeared in it, not to prove his title; with respect to the intent to defraud, he was of opinion, as he had before had occasion to hold (see page 426), that a man, in putting off a forged instrument must, as a necessary consequence of his act, be taken to intend to defraud; but although it was not necessary to fix upon any specific individual, he was inclined to think there must be some person who could be defrauded. The points however would be reserved if it became necessary.
MR. COLE called
SIR. WILLIAM VERNON . I am a baronet, and have been an M.P. several years. I have, I think, known Mr. Nash since about 1850—I am a shareholder in the Wicklow Railway—that is the way in which I became acquainted with him—as far as I have had an opportunity of knowing him, I have no reason to have anything but the most favourable opinion of him—I never heard anything disreputable of him in any respect.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Have you known anything about him except that he has been an agent for one party in this railway against the other? A. That is the only way; I took a very warm part against the company—I expressed my feelings on the subject in the House of Commons, at the request of several other shareholders—the Committee of the House of Commons set the matter aside, they granted a new bill—I considered myself a shareholder—I do not know whether I owe them 360l.—they are making the regular claim, I believe, the regular call; and I can state in a few words why I have not paid it—I was going to pay the call, when I received a letter from the company, to say that at the next meeting they intended to propose that shareholders who paid the amount of shares beyond what they wished to do, should have the opportunity of making a proposal, and paying up all the calls on a reduced number; and I waited till the meeting took place, and made my appeal, to know whether they would allow me to retain a certain number—I have decidedly been in arrear on former calls—I have never been in private intercourse with Mr. Nash, beyond calling at his chambers—I never had occasion to think otherwise than that he was a man of integrity and honesty—as far as I have had opportunity of judging, that is my decided opinion—I do not recollect ever hearing that he has been forbidden to practice in the House of Lords again as a Parliamentary agent, in consequence of making a false representation.
Q. I mean, in connection with this very railway company, and therefore it is a matter that is likely to be known to you; are you not aware that there was a vote of the House of Lords forbidding him to practice again as a Parliamentary agent? A. I never heard it; I have heard there were some proceedings before the House of Lords, but cannot undertake to say it was a vote of censure passed against him—I never recollect hearing that there was a vote of censure passed upon him for his conduct in the House of Lords—I was not myself present in the House of Lords when it took place—I was not examined in the House of Lords on any committee connected with the case—I do not recollect having heard of other members of the company being examined in the House of Lords—I believe Mr. Nash was examined in the House of Lords—I do not recollect ever hearing that Nash forged names to a petition in the House of Lords—I am sure it was never told to
me—I never heard that he was remanded for eight months from the Insolvent Debtors' Court—if I had sufficient to satisfy me that a man was a rogue, I should not consider him an honest man.
MR. COLE. Q. I believe the present company are only going for twenty miles? A. So I understand; the old company were to go 130 miles; the present company are only to go as far as Wicklow; and if I must give an opinion it is this, that they will never go so far—it was my opinion that winding up the company was the most advisable course in 1850.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Did you ever hear anything at all about him? A. Nothing; I have been subpoenaed here to give evidence to character.
MR. COLE. Q. Were you one of the persons placing confidence in him? A. I am not myself a shareholder; I have acted on behalf of a friend of mine in Ireland, which has brought me occasionally into intercourse with Mr. Nash, and I have always found him candid, frank, and unreserved—I found him associating with gentlemen—I was in the habit of meeting him in the society of other gentlemen.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. You did not meet him in private society? A. No.
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Judgment reserved.
OLD COURT.—Friday, February 27th, 1852.
PRESENT—MR. Justice WILLIAMS; and Mr. Ald. LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Justice Williams and the Eighth Jury.
NOT GUILTY .
(The particulars of this case were of a nature unfit for publication.)
NEW COURT.—Friday, February 27th, 1852.
PRESENT—MR. RECORDER; and Mr. Ald. CUBITT.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Seventh Jury.
GUILTY of the Attempt. Aged 16. Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Three Months.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Eighth Jury.
(MR. BODKIN offered no evidence.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
MR. COOPER conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES YEOMAN (policeman, K 136). On Sunday night, 15th Feb., I was on duty at East Ham, between 9 and 10 o'clock—I went towards the clock-house, and heard voices speaking inside the house—I waited, and heard footsteps go up and down stairs—I waited a considerable time, and saw the prisoner come out of the front door, and looking about he saw me turn my light on—he ran off, and I ran and took him—he said, calling me by my name, "For God's sake, do not take me; it is the first robbery I ever committed; I am very sorry"—I sprang my rattle, and my sergeant came and assisted me to take the prisoner.
MICHAEL MAGUIRE (policeman, K 226). On that Sunday night I was on duty, and heard the rattle spring—I hastened in the direction, and saw my brother officer had got the prisoner in custody—he told me that the prisoner had run away from the clock-house—I told him to keep the prisoner in custody, whilst I went and looked over the premises—I went and saw a quantity of lead convenient to the back-door—I took the lead, and sent for Mr. Holloway—I looked at the lead, and the part where it was said to have come from—I took a piece of lead from that part—I compared that with the lead I found down stairs ready to take away—it corresponded exactly, and here it is now—it is a fit, there can be no doubt about it—on the way to the station, the prisoner said, "It is the first robbery I ever committed; I am very sorry for it."
WILLIAM HOLLOWAY . I am a farmer, living at East Ham. I life directly opposite that empty house, and had charge of it—it belongs to Mr. John Ynyr Burgess—I had noticed this lead and swear that it was there the day before—I can swear it was not down stairs—there was none in the passage the day before—I saw the comparison between this and what remained—they corresponded exactly.
GUILTY . Aged 23.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury.— Confined Fourteen Days.
MR. METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS EARL . I am groom to Mr. Detmore, at Wanstead. I had a pair of boots in the stable on 5th Feb., and on the morning of Friday, 6th Feb., I took them into a woodhouse adjoining the stable about 11 o'clock, and towards 4 I missed them—between 11 and half-past 3 no one had been there but the prisoner—he had been in the coach-house and in the stable I should suppose about 1, or between 12 and 1—these are the boots I had in the stable—I have worn them myself—they were bought at my late employer's shop, Mr. Reeves, in the Commercial-road—I have not worn them in my present place—I had no occasion—I cleaned them and laid them by—I do not recollect that the prisoner had wished to buy them—I had been asked by several persons to sell them, and by the young man next door, but I never wished to part with them.
Cross-examined by MR. LILLEY. Q. Where were these boots placed on 6th Feb.? A. In my wood house, adjoining the stable—there are no means of getting into the wood house except going out of doors—you must go through a little back yard—I placed the boots in the wood house about 11 o'clock—I saw them there last about 12 o'clock—the prisoner was standing in front of the house the best part of the morning—there is not a railing outside the house—it is a private house—the stables and the wood house are at the back of the house—I think the prisoner was standing outside about 12, or between 11 and 12—I just knew the prisoner in the neighbourhood, that was all—he
has assisted me in my work on three different occasions—I knew him sufficiently to let him work for me—he has not assisted me four or five times with the horses and carriage—I have not had some dealings with him—I sold him the coat he now stands in, and I gave him a dark green waistcoat and a blue coat—I bad a very slight knowledge of him, but I gave him these things because I thought he was a very poor boy—I know these boots—I had this piece of strap put on them after I bought them, and they have gutta percha soles, which I put on myself—I think the prisoner's parents live about four miles from there—the prisoner has been lately potboy at the George, very near where I am—I did not see the prisoner in the stable any time that morning, or hold conversation with him there—he was there in the morning part.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Had he any business in the stable or wood house that morning? A. No, and no one else was there.
COURT. Q. Was there any way to the back yard without going through the stable? A. Not without going through the dwelling-house—I know that no one had been there, for I had been on the premises in the front stable all the time, except just going across the road to the butcher's—I had been to dinner, but the doors were fastened—it was before then that this transaction happened—no one was in the place after 1 o'clock—I fastened the doors a few minutes after 1—I went to the butcher's a little after 11—when the prisoner was in the stable, I let him out, and saw him go away—he was dressed in a ragged coat—he might have concealed the boots between his clothes—I do not recollect telling him to go because I expected my master down—I told him he must go because I wanted to fasten the door.
WILLIAM JAMES LAWS . I am assistant to a pawnbroker at Stratford, which is about two miles from Wanstead. I produce these boots, pawned by John Morgan for 2s. on the 6th of Feb.—the prisoner's person is quite familiar to me, and I think in reference to this transaction; I believe him to be the person—it was between 2 and 3 o'clock.
Cross-examined. Q. May not his person be familiar because he was a long resident in the neighbourhood? A. Possibly it may—it might be because he had pawned something on some other occasion—I will not undertake to say that he is the person who pawned these boots.
WILLIAM PRICE (police-sergeant, K 11.) I took the prisoner about a mile from the prosecutor's—I told him he was charged with stealing a pair of boots, at Wanstead—he said, "It was not me that took them."
Cross-examined. Q. What was it you said previously? A. I told him he was charged with stealing a pair of boots, at Wanstead—I did not ask him if he knew anything about them—I did not ask him if he knew anything about stealing them.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Did you say whose boots they were? A. Yes, I told him they belonged to Thomas Earl, of Wanstead.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
NOT GUILTY .
330. GEORGE JOHNSON , stealing 1 pair of trowsers, and other articles, value 16s. 2d.; the goods of Abraham Gardner: and 1 coat, value 14s.; the goods of Charles Gillett: and 1 medal, value 7s.; the goods of James Downs: to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 62.— Confined Three Months.
Before Mr. Recorder.
GUILTY . Aged 23— Confined Three Months.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM JUSTICE ILSLEY . I am a carrier, and live in Upper George-street, Greenwich. The prisoner was in my employ about two months—he was so on 24th Jan.—on that day a man named Jeremiah Radley was entrusted to drive my errand-cart—the prisoner was with him, as an assistant—my cart plies between Greenwich and London—it was the duty of the prisoner and Radley to proceed to London on 24th Jan.—they had some parcels in the cart—I afterwards had some conversation with Mr. Corney, and, in consequence of information from him, I asked the prisoner whether he knew anything of the parcel that was lost—he said he knew nothing of it—he did not say whether he had left it anywhere—I afterwards went with him to Thames-street—he pointed out a place, with the name of "Saunders" over the door—it was an unoccupied house—he told me he saw a man stand on the step of the door, and he said to him, "I have a parcel from Mr. Corney, and I want a receipt for it;" that he gave it to the man who was standing at the door, and the man said, "It is all right; I will send a receipt by post."
Cross-examined by MR. WORSLEY. Q. When was it he took you to Thames-street? A. I do not know; it was about a week after 24th Jan.—he was still in my service—I afterwards saw him in prison—he then told me that the story he had previously told me was false—he volunteered that confession—he told me he had been induced to tell me that story by Radley, and Radley told him to stick to it, and the old man would pay for it—Radley was in my service, and was rather over the prisoner—the prisoner was helping him—the prisoner had been two months in my service, and behaved like a very good boy—I had no character with him—he had lived with me previously, and was a very good boy—I do not know what is become of Radley—I have made every inquiry, and have heard nothing of him—if I had found him I would have taken him into custody.
JOHN CORNEY . I am a grocer, and live in Queen's-place, Blackheath-road. On 24th Jan. the prisoner came to me, with an errand-cart, in company with Jeremiah Radley—I do not know which of them drove the cart—they draw up to our door every afternoon—I had a parcel I intended to send to Mr. Saunders, 43, Upper Thames-street—it contained cash to the amount of 14l. 5s. 10d.—I delivered it to Radley—he showed it to Mr. Ilsley, his master, as he went out at our door, and then put it into his pocket—I explained what was in it—it was directed to "Messrs. Saunders, 43, Upper
Thames-street"—I found afterwards it bad not been delivered—I gave information to Mr. Ilsley—I had previously spoken to the prisoner—he said at first that they promised to send a receipt by post—he said he had left the parcel at 156, Upper Thames-street—I requested him to call and make it right; he was not to leave it at 156, but 43—he said he would call—on the Tuesday, when the prisoner and Radley came, I said to the prisoner, "The house where you said you left it is shut up"—the prisoner said he gave it to a man standing on the step—I explained to Radley what the parcel contained when I gave it him, because I had sent a parcel the week before, and it was not delivered till the Monday—I said, "Take care and deliver this"—he said, "I will, because I had such a dressing about the other."
Cross-examined. Q. You delivered the parcel to Radley? A. Yes; he was in the habit of coming with the cart every afternoon—the prisoner was outside the shop—I think he could not hear what I said to Radley.
MR. LILLEY. Q. At the time you explained to Radley what was in the parcel, how near was the cart? A. Ten or a dozen yards off—I was in the shop.
THOMAS BARNES (City-policeman, 448). I apprehended the prisoner on Monday, 9th Feb., on the prosecutor's premises at Greenwich—I told him he was charged with stealing a parcel of money directed to Mr. Saunders, 43, Upper Thames-street—he said he knew nothing about it, neither should he say anything about it, and I might do as I liked—he was then taken, and on the following day he was remanded—when I took him out of the lockup he said he should like to see Mr. Ilsley, he had got something to say to him—I said very well, what he said must be in my presence, and I should make mention of it—he stated to his master that henever saw the parcel, and never had the parcel, and he said it was all false that he had said to his master—he had previously said he had left it, and-when he was brought to the station he said that Jeremiah Radley had told him to stick to his text, that they could not hurt him, and the old man would have to pay for it—Radley was present, but was not in custody.
Cross-examined. Q. The story the prisoner told in prison was the same the master told here to-day? A. Yes; partly so—much to the same effect—the prisoner said that they drove up to China Hall, on their way up from Greenwich, and there had some drink.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Russell Gurney, Esq.
MR. HORRY conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN DAVIS . I am a seaman, in Her Majesty's service. I was at the Earl of Chatham public house at Woolwich, on 19th Feb., about half past 8 o'clock at night—I saw the two prisoners there when I went up stairs—I was in company with them—I had It 10s. when I went into the house—I do not very well know what happened there.
THOMAS DAVIS . I am a stoker of a steam ship. On 19th Feb. I was with the last witness at the Earl of Chatham public house—I saw the two prisoners there—I recollect the last witness pulling out of his pocket his silver guard, and his discharge, and a call, and so on—he pulled out a sovereign, some silver, and some halfpence, and placed them on the table—the landlord got possession of them; the prosecutor got them back, and put them in his pocket—he afterwards pulled them all out again, and laid them on the table again—the sovereign was not there, and he said he had lost a sovereign—the sovereign was found that time in his own jacket
pocket—the sovereign found its way on the table again, and the prisoner Dearlove took it up, and put it into Holmes' hand—Holmes went down stairs out of the room—he did not come back.
Dearlove. Q. Did you not say that I had the sovereign about me? A. No; I snatched your gloves away, and your money fell down, and after that you gave the sovereign to Holmes.
Dearlove. When he found Holmes was gone he said to me, "You d—rogue, you gave it to the other one."
Holmes. Q. Did you say if I would give you ten shillings you would say nothing about it? A. Yes; if you would return ten shillings to the man.
COURT. Q. Was Jackson present when you said that? A. Yes, I believe he was.
JAMES HALL . I am a gentleman's servant. I was at the Earl of Chatham on the night of 19th Feb.—I heard the prosecutor say he had lost a sovereign—it was found in his jacket pocket, and the last witness put it on the table; Dearlove picked it off the table, and also fivepence-halfpenny in coppers—the last witness said to him, "Where is the sovereign, you b—y villain?" and he passed it into Holmes's hand, and in about ten seconds Holmes passed out of the room—the halfpence fell on the floor, and the last witness picked them up.
WILLIAM JACKSON (policeman, R 284). I was called to the Earl of Chatham—I told Dearlove he was charged with stealing a sovereign—he said he knew nothing about it—on the 20th I apprehended Holmes—he said, "What is this about?"—I said, "It is my duty to tell you, you are charged with receiving a sovereign, knowing it to be stolen"—he said, "I know nothing about it, I gave it to the landlord, and saw no more of it afterwards"—the prisoners were locked up in separate cells, three or four yards apart; and before I got out of the passage I heard Dearlove say to Holmes, "What have you done with it?"—Holmes said, "Hush! there will be listeners about"—in a minute afterwards he said, "I changed it, and the remainder of the change is in my jacket pocket; I hope to God they will not go to my barrack room to search my bag"—I went to the barrack room, and found his bag—in the bag I found his jacket, and in the jacket pocket I found 18s.
Dearlove. Q. Did you not say I asked him what he had done with the sovereign? A. I said that word before the Magistrate, but I corrected myself immediately.
Dearlove. They had to make out three separate indictments before they could make one for me to come here, on account of the witness swearing falsely.
Holmes's Defence. I was drinking there, and this blue jacket came in, and when the sovereign was lost he came to me and said, "You being an old soldier, I look to you for protection;" he took out his money; it fell on the floor; I took it up and said, "Be careful, or you will lose it all;" he pulled out his money again, and put it on the table; I took the sovereign up, and gave him the remainder, to put in his pocket; I said, "I will go and give this to the landlord;" I did, and I said, "You take care of that for the man till the morning;" but he gave it him back again, and then he came and said he had lost his sovereign; Thomas Davis came and found it in his jacket pocket; I went away just before the half hour, and then they said that this man had the sovereign, and had given it to me, but I was then out of the room.
DEARLOVE— GUILTY . Aged 25.
HOLMES— GUILTY . Aged 30.
Recommended to mercy by the Jury.
Confined One Month.
Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN RANDALL (policeman, 237 R). I am doing duty at Woolwich. On 12th Feb. about 2 o'clock in the morning, I was going through the yard of the Star and Garter public-house in Powis-street—I heard a noise in the next yard, belonging to Mrs. Campion—I listened, and in about a minute I heard a footstep coming in a direction towards the fence, which separates the ground of the Star and Garter from Mrs. Campion's—I saw the prisoner come and place something like a box on the fence, parting the two grounds—he looked over the fence; he saw me, and he drew back—I went to the fence and saw him go down the yard—I got over the fence, and followed him—when I got over the fence I saw Mrs. Campion's back parlour window was open—it was quite up—I turned my light on, and saw the impressions of feet very fresh by the window, as if some person had just been in, and come out again—the marks were on the railing alongside the window—I went down the yard—there is a hayloft at the further end of the yard, you go up a ladder to get to it—I saw the prisoner going up this ladder, and followed him—when I was going up he took a truss of hay and knocked me down—I got up, and got in the hayloft—I found the prisoner concealed between some trusses of hay—he was afterwards taken by me and White—I saw White find a cash-box, about a yard and a half or two yards from where the prisoner was lying—I saw him take away the box that he had placed on the fence at the time he went away himself—it was the same size as this one, when I charged the prisoner with stealing the box, he said he had been there to sleep in the loft ever since 12, and he was not guilty—I said, "Don't say that, for I saw you in the yard not two-minutes ago"—he made no answer.
Prisoner. You dragged me to the farther end of the loft before you got to the cash-box. Witness. He was threeparts of the way in the loft when we took him, and the cash-box was about a yard and a half from him.
COURT. Q. What height were the palings? A. About five feet and a half—I saw the prisoner when he came up to the palings, he drew himself up as if he were going to get over—it was moonlight.
MR. PLATT. Q. Did you search the prisone? A. Yes; I found 1s. 3 3/4 d. in copper on him, and two sixpences in silver.
Prisoner. It was my own money.
JOSEPH WHITE (policeman, 330 R). I was with the last witness at a quarter past 2 o'clock that morning—I found this cash-box in the loft about two yards from where the prisoner was lying—I heard the prisoner hastening along the yard—I said to Randall, "You get over and I will run round to the door"—the prisoner said he knew nothing about the robbery, he had been there asleep—I found in the cash-box 2l. in silver, and a half sovereign.
COURT. Q. How is the door in this loft? A. There are steps going from Mrs. Campion's yard to the loft—when the prisoner got in there he blocked the way against Randall, and ran to the door which opens to the Star and Garter yard—I called to him to surrender, and he would not—I got a ladder, and got in there.
JUDITH CAMPION . I am a widow, and live in Powis-street, next door to the Star and Garter—this cash-box is mine—we mostly kept it upstairs, but that night we forgot it, and left it in the till—I saw it in the till, and put this money in it at 9 o'clock in the evening, 2l. in silver, and a half sovereign—the box was in the back part of the till—I went to bed about 10—I am sure the back parlour window was shut down—about 2 o'clock the policeman
called me—I came down and saw the window open—I ran to the till, and the cash box was gone—the till was not locked—there was some loose money in the till.
MARY CAMPION . I am daughter-in-law of the last witness. On that night I looked at the till—there were two sixpences, and about a shilling's worth of halfpence and farthings loose in the till, besides what was in the box—we keep a greengrocer's shop.
Prisoner's Defence. I am quite innocent of the robbery; I went in there, and laid down on some hay; I laid about an hour and a half, and the policemen came and charged me with this robbery.
GUILTY .† Aged 27.— Confined Twelve Months.
SURREY CASES. Before Mr. Recorder.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY JOSEPH BROCK . I carry on business at 11, Bartlett's-buildings, Holborn, as an importer and manufacturer of Bohemian glass. About 19th last July, a person named Samuel Turner called on me, and looked out goods to the amount of 40l., consisting of miscellaneous glass and fancy goods—he gave me references to Mr. John Stanley, of 37, Southwark-bridge-road, and Mr. John Barker, builder, of 1, William-street, Newington causeway—I went several times to 1, William-street, but not seeing Barker, he came to my house with Turner, between 19th and 25th July—Barker is the defendant, Murphy—Turner said, "This is Mr. Barker" (pointing to him)—I have since seen him at 1, William-street, and have ascertained he lived there—he said that Turner was a highly respectable man, and he had known him for the last ten years; that he kept a horse and trap, a one horse chaise, and that he supplied country shopkeepers with this sort of goods, meaning the glass and fancy ware; and that he would be answerable to the amount of 2502. for Turner—Turner had said that Barker was a builder, and Barker said he was building twelve or fourteen houses at Notting-hill, and some at Poplar and Deptford—after that I agreed to let Turner have the goods—that was the second order—Mr. John Stanley was the referee for the first order, which amounted to forty odd pounds—before I executed the first order I went to 37, Southward bridge road, which was the address Turner had given me, and there saw the prisoner Martin—there was no name on the door, but "House and Estate Agent" on a wire blind—I knocked at the door, it was opened by a woman, and I inquired for Mr. John Stanley—I was introduced into the parlour, and stayed there about a quarter of an hour, when the prisoner Martin came in—I said, "Good morning," and he said good morning—I told him I had come to inquire about Mr. Samuel Turner, and asked if he knew him—he said he had known him for the last ten years; he was a highly respectable man, and travelled town and country with miscellaneous goods, and kept a horse and trap; that his wife had leasehold property, and that he (Martin) collected the rents for her; that he did not mind being answerable to the amount of 40l.—nothing had been said about 40l. before—after that the second order came, which amounted to 250l.; and I went to Barker's, and he said he would be answerable for 250l.—I began to execute the second order on 25th July—I think I sent 110l.'s worth—there was a third order in Aug. of about 70l.—when Barker came to me, between 19th and 25th, he said I was to
draw on him a bill at three months for 100l., and a bill at four months for 150l., which I did, and sent them through the post to Mr. John Barker, William-street, and they came back to me through the post—these are them (produced)—I do not know the writing of the acceptor—I went to Barker's house a few days before the first bill became due, and told him that the first bill would become due on 14th Nov.—he said he was not provided to meet them; he expected that Turner would have provided for it as he had promised—the bill was dishonoured; and about a week after I went to Barker again, and he said he had expected that Turner would have met the bill, and he could not do it then—there was a timber yard at Barker's, but very little timber in it—I was eventually obliged to take up the 100l. bill myself—the other bill became due on 14th Dec.—on that day I went to Barker's, and waited outside with an officer, to meet the clerk from Glyn's; as I did not wish the bill to be dishonoured—the bill was not paid, and I went from there to Glyn's, and took it up—I have seen Barker about it since; he said he could not take it up—that was some time in Dec.—between July and Sept I supplied Turner with goods, on these references, to the amount of 339l.—(The bills were here read; they were drawn by Henry Joseph Brock, on John Barker, of William-street, Newington-causeway, Southwarh, and accepted by him)—I have never been paid, except about 20l.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFORD. Q. When did you first see Turner? A. On 19th July—I am sure it was not June—I made out invoices at the time—I saw Barker between 19th and 25th, within six days as far as my recollection goes—I think there cannot be any mistake about it—I saw "John Barker, builder," painted over the yard—the conversation which led me to take his acceptance took place at my house, in Bartlett's-buildings some time in July—I drew the bills on 11th or 12th July—there might have been two interviews between me and Barker, before I took the bills—I did not go with Barker to look at any houses at Notting-hill with any friend of mine or by myself—I did not go at all; a friend of mine went, but I did not—Barker offered to let me have two houses as security, and I refused—that was at the first meeting with Turner, when Barker wished me to draw on him—when he offered me the houses I was uot to draw at all—he said, "If you have any doubts at all I will let you have two houses if you like for security"—I said, I was a young beginner, it was not leasehold property I wanted, it was the cash, and then the offer was made of the bills—I preferred taking the bills as Barker offered, and as he appeared a respectable man—I think I was paid between 19l. and 20l. by Turner, in Oct.—that was after the bills were due—one was due on 14th Nov., and the other on 14th Dec., then it must have been before they were due—there was an overplus which had nothing to do with Barker's bills, and the 19l. was paid by Turner on account of that overplus—I have not got the invoices here, I can send for them.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. What has become of Turner? A. I do not know—I have not seen him—I have been after him a great many times, but have never been able to find him—he lived in Mansion-house-street, Kennington-road, but has removed; I do not know where—the officers have been after him.
GEORGE QUINNEAR (police-sergeant, P 1). I have known the prisoner who is indicted in the name of John Barker Murphy, from eight to ten years—he formerly resided in Charles-street, Brandon-street, Walworth, where he kept a beer-shop—his name was then John Murphy—"John Murphy" was over the door there, and he acted as landlord—this is the first transaction in which I have known him to be living in the name of Barker—I knew him before he came to Walworth, by seeing him at different places, but I cannot say where
he lived—I do not think I ever spoke to him, up to that time—he has been at Walworth several months—I was present on 8th May, 1846, at Lambeth Police-court, where Barker appeared in the name of John Murphy—from that time I have known him living in Walworth, in that name.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFORD. Q. How lately before this business had you seen him? A. I do not know that I lost sight of him for any length of time up to 25th Dec. last—I know he was living at 1, William-street, Newington causeway—I have seen the name of John Barker over the door—I do know that he has been living there two or three years—I know he kept a beer-shop in Kent-street after he left Walworth, within the last three years.
WILLIAM LOW . I am one of the assistants to Mr. Attenborough, of Newington-place, pawnbroker. I produce some Bohemian glass—the first was pledged on 30th Sept., this jug and cup (produced), for 5s., by two females, together—I should know both of them again, but do not know which of them pawned it—they came at various times—that is one of them (pointing to Mary Ann Barker)—I do not know which articles she pledged—on 4th Oct. these three vases were pawned, for 7s. 6d., I do not know who by; I did not take them in—on 6th Oct. these two red toilet bottles were pledged, according to the ticket, by a female; I did not take them in—on 7th Oct. I took in a paper weight and smelling bottle, for 2s., of a female, I cannot tell who—on 11th Oct. one ornament was pledged by one of the females, I cannot tell which; and on 6th Oct., two ornaments, for 2s. 6d.; I did not take them in.
MARY ANN BARKER . I am the prisoner's daughter; I have gone by the name of Miss Murphy; I lived with him in Charles-street, Walworth. I remember his keeping a beer-shop—I think it is about six years ago when he first began—he kept it eighteen months or two years—I believe he had two shops after that—I cannot say how long he lived at the second—I have not always been at home—I have been a great deal with my aunt—I cannot tell how long he was at the third house—he gave it up about four years ago—it may have been more than six years since he went to the first; I cannot say—he went by the name of Murphy as a beer-shop keeper; that was the name over the door of all three of the shops—he afterwards went to a shop in Kent-street, in the name of Murphy, and afterwards to one in Webber-street, in the name of Murphy—I know Samuel Turner—I remember his bringing a hamper of goods to my father's house about five or six months ago—my father was a builder at that time, and Turner was a traveller—he said it was too large to go into his own house, and so he brought it to ours—he opened it at our house, and took the things out of the case—I saw it after it was opened—it contained different sorts of glass—it was this Bohemian glass-Turner unpacked it—Mrs. Turner did not come that day while I was at home—I did not see her there, because while Turner was unpacking the case I went out—I pawned some of the goods for Mrs. Turner; three liqueur bottles, at 10s.; two images under a stand and shade, at Mr. Attenborough's, for 6s.; and two toilet bottles, at Mr. Fisher's, at Walworth, for 4s.—these things produced arc like the things I saw unpacked at my father's house,
but not these vases—none of these articles produced are what I pledged—none of these goods were left at our house—Turner took them away with the horse and cart—two or three broken ornaments were left at our house—I was not present when any of these articles were pledged—the crate remained at my father's two or three days before it was taken away—I do not think it was moved from where Turner had put it, which was in the timber-yard, through the counting-house—my father was not using the counting-house at that time, but he had nails and different things in it—my father knew the crate was there, and that the glass had been opened and taken out there—he was not at home when I was at home, but I had to go out—I know Turner—my father and he, I believe, have had many transactions together, from what my father has said—I am sure no other woman was with me when I pledged the Bohemian glass—I have pledged two toilet bottles, three mugs, and three liqueur bottles—I have not been with anybody else when they pledged anything—I do not know where Turner is—I have not seen him for some time—I have seen Mr. Myers' shop, in the London-road, but I never knew it.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFORED Q. How long has your father been in Newington causeway? A. I think it is nearly twelve month's—I know of some houses he had an interest in at Notting-hill, there are fourteen—he left, I dare say, six months ago—I know of his having been engaged in building those houses—he had likewise some at Poplar, which he built—the crate was too big to go into Turner's house—my father has a yard where a horse and cart can go through—the things I pawned were nearly six months ago, about the end of Sept., or the beginning of Oct.—I gave the money and tickets to Mrs. Turner, who was then living in Mansion-house-street, Kennington-lane—the crate was three or four days on my father's premises.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. You have been asked about where Mrs. Turner lived; was that a private house? A. 'Yes; it is a small street—I have not been over the house; there are two rooms on a story—I will not undertake to say when my father had the property at Notting-hill—I believe he has been in Horsemonger-lane jail; I never was in there; I was living with my aunt, at Greenwich—he had the building of the houses at Notting-hill; I saw him there at work—I do not know that he built them for Turner; I believe not—I have seen Mr. Stanley; I do not know whether he had anything to do with it; and there was a gentleman named Brown; I do not know whether he was the architect or not—I am not aware that Mr. Stanley is dead; I have not seen him these four or five months; I have seen him within a twelvemonth.
COURT. Q. Do you know who you are speaking of? A. Yes, that is him (pointing to the prisoner Martin)—I always knew him as Mr. Stanley; he lived in the Southwark-bridge road, as Mr. Stanley—he called at my father's house one day, but he was not at home; and my father has met him when we have been out together—I know he has been at our house more than once; he has not been there twenty times.
GEORGE QUINNEAR re-examined. I know a person named John Stanley; I never knew his residence; I believe him to have been dead about two years—I have known Martin between seven and eight years; I have known him to go by the name of John Stanley, but never till this matter of Mr. Brock's came to my knowledge.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. How long is it since you have seen Martin? A. The latter end of July—I saw him in company with Barker; I did not see Miss Barker present—during the time I have known Martin, I have known him to be an associate of Barker up to this time; I should
say I have seen them together two hundred or three hundred times, during the last seven or eight years.
THOMAS PRINCE . I live at 35, Beckford-row, Walworth, and keep a toy shop. I know the shop of Myers, a miscellaneous dealer, in the London-road; he deals in job lots—I do not know where he is now—I bought Bohemian glass of him, at various times, from 18th or 20th Aug. up to the early part of Oct., to the amount of 100l. or 120l.—he attends auctions—he has lived there for sixteen or eighteen years, to my knowledge; it is near the Surrey Theatre—this glass is Bohemian; it is imported by a great many people—I purchased 8l. or 10l.-worth in a bunch—I paid no particular price for any article.
JOHN EVANS . I am an attorney. I prepared the brief for Honey man—the first time I heard of, or saw him, was 10th Dec, 1851—I did not take any Bohemian glass of him; some was sent to my place in my absence—I cannot say that it came from Honeyman, except that he called on me about the matter—I took it to deliver it up to the prosecutor; it was left at my house on 5th or 6th June, in two small hampers; and I went immediately to Mr. Brock, and told him it was at his service, and he refused to take it—it was glass of this description, perhaps twenty-five articles in the two hampers—there were no vases like these; there were two Bohemian sodawater glasses—I know Honeyman by his coming to me in company with a client of mine, Alexander Bell, with reference to an assignment of ground, of which Honeyman was the lessee; he had been once or twice with Mr. Bell; and he came on 5th June, and said he had seen by the papers that some glass which was in his possession had been taken before a Magistrate, and he felt very uncomfortable, and asked me what I thought he had better do—he told me a man named Turner was a tenant of his, for part of the ground on which I was concerned in drawing the deeds; and that Tamer was considerably in his debt for moneys advanced; and he produced his book with the entries of when he made those advances—he asked me what be should do—I told him to go to Mr. Brock, who lived close by my chambers, and give up the things to him—he said Mr. Turner had left the goods with his wife, for moneys he had advanced him in the building—Honeyman is a builder, to a large extent, at New-cross—I do not know whether he has any property at Notting-hill—he left my chambers for the purpose of going round to Mr. Brock's—the property, is now in my cellar, 12, Gray's-inn-square—Mr. Brock has been to see it, and he says I had better let it remain till the trial is over, it was safe enough there; and Mr. Lewis, the attorney, likewise told me to keep it—I was not retained to defend Honeyman till last Saturday night.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFORD. Q. When did you go to Mr. Brock? A. I promised Honeyman I would see him, I went, but he was not at home; I saw Mrs. and Miss Brock, and from them heard that Barker was to be brought up on the following Monday to Guildhall, and I should be sure to see Mr. Brock there—I went and saw him there, and told him exactly what Honeyman had told me—just previous to my going to Guildhall, a party called with a horse and cart, and left two small packets of ornaments at my chambers, saying, they were to be given up to Mr. Brock—Mr. Brock merely said he wanted Mr. Honeyman to tell his own tale how he became possessed of the goods.
MR. KENEALEY (for Honeyman) to MR. BROCK. Q. Have not you said you believed Honeyman had nothing to do with it? A. I have; I said so at Guildhall, and that I merely wished him to come forward and state how he became possessed of the goods—no charge was made against him before the Magistrate, he was arrested on the indictment.
GEORGE QUINNEAR re-examined. I endeavoured to obtain the attendance of Honeyman before the Magistrate—I went with Mr. Brock seven or eight times, but could not find him—Mr. Brock afterwards recognised a great quantity of his property at Honeyman's premises—I could not get to see him—on 3rd Jan. I left a summons at his residence, to procure his attendance at Guildhall; instead of attending to that summons Mr. Evans came, he did not give any account of why he was absent, he said he could not get to see him—I afterwards served a second summons on him, and found he had removed away.
Cross-examined by MR. KENEALEY. Q. Do not you know he is a man of business? A. I do not know; he stated to me that he was employed at Wandsworth at the time—I do not know of my own knowledge that he was really building at Wandsworth at the time.
Cross-examined by MR. GIFFORD. Q. You took Barker? A. Yes; in William-street, Newington-cause way—he was near his house, with his daughter—I believe he had come out of his house—I also apprehended Martin on 15th Feb. at his residence, and found these two vases (produced) in a little desk.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Martin was not before the Magistrate? A. No; Barker was examined on 25th and 26th Dec.—this bill was preferred on 6th Feb.—I had been looking for Martin before this bill was found, and up to the time he was apprehended.
MR. BROCK re-examined. These two vases I sold to Turner, and here are two other articles I sold him.
ESTHER MYERS . I am the wife of Mendlenitz Myers, who is in Poland. I have seen Turner—he sold my husband a quantity of Bohemian glass, I believe—I have never been present when Turner has been with my husband—I found some glass on the premises—all I know about it I learned from my husband—I believe my husband sold some of the goods to Mr. Prince—my husband is in a middling way of business—I do not know whether there were 100 pieces.
( The COURT was of opinion that there was no case against Honeyman, as to whom a verdict of acquittal was here taken.)
MR. GIFFORD to MARY ANN BARKER. Q. Do you know whether your grandmother was twice married? A. No, I do not—I cannot say whether she was married to a man named Barker, and also to a man named Murphy—I have heard so.
MR. ROBINSON to MR. BROCK. Q. Have you a brother in the business with you? A. I have; he has never seen Martin—I have a son; he has seen him twice—he was present the second time—he was present with me once, and he saw him once previously—my son was present at the time of the representations to which I have deposed to day, when I was at Stanley's—I have only seen Stanley once since, that was at the police-office a few days since—my son went at first by my direction—I have never said that if I had taken Martin's advice I should not have furnished these goods—I swear that—I never heard my son say so—I cannot say whether my son went there a third time—he never told me so—I do not recollect going there myself afterwards and telling Martin that I had entrusted Turner with goods to the amount of 150l.—I believe I was never at Stanley's house more than once, but I cannot swear it—I was there the other night outside the house, but not in it, merely looking at it to see whether I was correct in the number—I never recollect going there more than once, but I had just come off a bed of sickness at the time this affair happened—I had been confined to my
bed with a violent cold for a fortnight or three weeks—I had not long come from the continent, and I was very poorly previously—I am sure Stanley said he would be answerable for 40l.—I cannot say whether or not I had previously said that Turner wanted goods to the amount of 40l.—I cannot say now what Stanley said when he made the representation about the goods—he said he would be answerable to the amount of 40l.—I am sure he said that.
MARTIN— GUILTY . Aged 41.
BARKER— GUILTY . Aged 43.
Confined Stx Months.
(There were two other indictments against the prisoners.)
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
MR. ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
GEPRGE HARRIS . I am a gentleman, residing on my property at Norwood. On Saturday, 14th Feb., I went with my brother to the Griffin, at Newington—there was some sparring going on there—I had rather too much to drink—I saw the prisoner there—I got there a little past 7 o'clock in the evening—I had a gold watch worth 40 guineas in my right hand waistcoat pocket—I had a short chain through my button hole attached to an arrow—it could be seen—about nine I required to go down stairs—my brother was at that time setting-to—I being quite a stranger in the place, the prisoner said he would show me—he accompanied me down stairs to a sort of skittle ground—I made water, and directly I had buttoned up my trowsers the prisoner seized hold of my watch—I immediately seized him by the collar, and we had a scuffle—he threw me on my back, and I found my watch was gone—he got my hand off his collar by punching my hand—my hand was completely black—he got away—the chain remained hanging to my button hole—this is it; here is where it was broken off.
Prisoner. Q. Where is the blackness on your hand? A. I think it is gone off; I believe you can see a little blackness on it now—it remained black five or six days—the bruise I got from the fall still remains—I could hardly move for three or four days—I was sufficiently sober to know you—you went down stairs with me.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. Were you perfectly sober when you went into that house? A. No, not quite.
Cross-examined by MR. M'MAHON. Q. You were quite drunk, were you not? A. No; I was rather fresh—I should think I had been there about two hours—I had a small glass of brandy and water, and before that I had some punch at Garroway's—I took five or six small wine lasses—that was the first I drank that night—I had dined at Simpson's, and took half a pint of bitter ale, nothing else—I went with my brother in a cab to the Griffin to see my brother set-to—I had 6d.-worth of brandy and water there; that lasted me till I went up stairs, which might have been half an hour—I had another glass of brandy and water up stairs—I did not take any more after that—I had never seen the prisoner before—I had never been in that house before—I did not remain long in the back premises—I called out when I was robbed, and several persons rushed in at once; it was close at hand—my brother was one who came—I had never seen any one that I saw in the house in my lift before excepting my brother—I recollect Lewis being there—when I was knocked down I struggled with the prisoner for some time—I called out when I found my watch was gone—the prisoner made his escape—my brother came
with six or eight others—it was not a very large place—I said, "My watch is gone, he has taken away my watch"—I did not know his name.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. At the time the watch was taken there was no one else near you? A. No.
CHRISTOPHER LEWIS . I am a labourer, and live in Charles-street, Drury-lane. I was at the Griffin that night—I saw the prosecutor and another gentleman there—I saw some sparring—I saw the prisoner there—I saw him and the prosecutor go down stairs together, about half-past 8 o'clock—the prisoner went down first, just leaving room for the prosecutor to follow—I was going down for orders—when I got down, I went to the left hand, towards the bar, and they turned towards the tap, which would lead to the skittle ground—in about a quarter of an hour I saw the prosecutor, and he made a complaint to me.
Prisoner. Q. Did you see me go into the tap-room? A. I only saw you turn that way.
COURT. Q. After you saw the prosecutor, did you remain at the Griffin? A. Yes.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. You saw the prisoner go down stairs with the prosecutor? A. Yes; I have known the prisoner two years—I never knew anything wrong of him before.
Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A. A labourer; I am at present out of employ; the last I did was as a baker—I was not doing anything before—I was not a pugilist—I have sparred—I know Horsemonger-lane gaol: I have been there—a man charged me with stealing a sovereign—I was there a week, and then discharged—the prisoner was very much in liquor that night; he was drunk, the prosecutor was the same—I should think they were both drunk—I heard an outcry, and saw the prosecutor—I did not notice whether his clothes were buttoned—his brother was there—I have not seen his brother here to-day—I do not know whether it was a wet night or dry—I did not notice Mr. Harris' clothes.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. You have no doubt the prisoner was there? A. No; he told me the latter part of the night that he had to go to Ludgate-hill—I know I saw him there at half-past 8 o'clock, and he told me he had to be in the City by 9—I was in Horsemonger-lane gaol for a week, for stealing a sovereign—I was not tried, because they found I did not do it.
DANIEL CAUL . I am barman at the Griffin. I remember the prosecutor being there—I saw the prisoner there for an hour before the prosecutor was in the house—the prisoner came and asked me for the key of the water-closet, about 7 o'clock—I gave it him—it was his duty to let me have it again—he did let me have it, but not that night—it being a busy night, many persons used the place—the prisoner was in the habit of showing persons to the place—all I know is, that when the gentleman lost his watch he ran into the bar parlour, and let me know—I had missed the prisoner half an hour before that—the room where the sparring took place is up stairs—to go to the watering place, they would not pass the bar, but go the other way—when I saw the prisoner half an hour before, he went up stairs—I did not see him afterwards—he could not have gone out of the front door without my seeing him—there was a way to get out at the back through the window—all the other doors were locked—the windows are on the right hand side, in the skittle ground—I had not seen the windows any time that evening—I was in the bar—I did not see the windows till half-past 11 that night—the shutters were not fastened—I cannot say whether they were secure at 7 or 8, because mistress and master were out, and the shutters were not fastened—at half-past 11 I went to shut
in the windows—I did not take notice of the ground, being rather busy—the windows go towards a cow-yard; by that means the prisoner might go out—there might be a dozen go that way—the ground is about eighteen feet from the bar.
COURT. Q. Is the skittle ground in the open air? A. Yes; there are two windows to show in light—persons might get away from there without going through the house—there were a lot up stairs and a lot in the tap room.
Cross-examined. Q. There were a lot up stairs, of all sorts of people? A. Yes; all working people—I do not remember a Mr. Hill having been robbed there a fortnight or a month before—I have been there four months—I was in the bar when Mr. Harris came back—it was rather a damp night; I think it was raining. I am not sure—when Mr. Harris came in he was rather in liquor—he called for several glasses of brandy and water—I should say he had four or five glasses, and three different pints of gin; I drew it him—when he stood this gin he went up stairs—I did not see him afterwards—when he came in and said he had lost his watch, I shut the door—I would not let any one go—the policeman walked in—I am quite sure that when the prosecutor came in he had four or five glasses of brandy and water, and he treated the persons with three pints of gin—when he came in he was drunk; his brother was sober—after the prosecutor took these glasses of brandy and water, he remained up stairs about ten minutes as near as I can tell—I did not see him come down; I saw him in the passage—he hallooed out to me, and said he had lost his watch—I said, "Who has got it?"—he said, "A man in the ground;" and I shut the door, because there was a lot went to rush in—I noticed Mr. Harris's clothes; they were in about the same state as when he walked first into the house—I did not observe whether his waistcoat was torn.
MR. ROBINSON. Q. What is that place used for, where the windows are on the right hand side? A. It is a water closet and skittle ground; what they call a knock-'em-down—I have known the prisoner about four months—I cannot tell whether the window was secure in the early part of the evening—I found it open at half past 11 o'clock; that was the time I shut it.
COURT. Q. Can you say in what state the window was in the former part of the evening? A. No, I cannot; this is ray deposition—it was read over to me, and I put my mark to it—there were bars to the window: I saw them. (The deposition stated, "They were all fast in the early part of the evening.") I mean to swear that Mr. Harris was quite drunk when he came in—he was very drunk indeed, and I served him four or five glasses of brandy and water, 6d.-worth each time—I do not say that he drank it all; I was busy, you know—he drank a good drop at the bar—I will swear he drank two of those glasses—I went on serving a drunken man in that way—if he had called for a pound's worth I should have given it him.
JOHN WRIGHT . I apprehended the prisoner at his father's house, in a court in London-street, London-road, about a quarter before 11 o'clock that night; that is about half a mile from the Griffin at Newington—I told him he was charged with stealing a watch—he said he knew nothing about it—he was the worse for liquor.
Cross-examined. Q. Was he not drunk? A. No; I have seen scores of persons drunk—I have admitted that a prisoner was drunk—I have given evidence of it, I should say 100 times—I believe it had been wetting that night, but very little—when I took the prisoner he was dressed just as he is now—his jacket was torn just under the shoulder as if he had been scuffling as if some one had laid hold of his collar.
THOMAS RICHARDS (police-sergeant, M 10). I went into the skittle ground ten minutes or a quarter of an hour afterwards—I found an iron bar recently pulled down, and the window was open far enough for a man to get out—great force had been used—this is one of the screws I picked up.
NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Three Months.
MR. SCRIVEN conducted the Prosecution.
ESTHER REEVE . I live at Clapham. On 22nd Jan. the prisoner came to my father's house for half a pint of porter—it came to a penny—he gave me a shilling—I gave him change—I put the shilling into the till with some farthings; there were other shillings in the till, but not in the same compartment—soon after my father came in I had my suspicions, and I took the shilling out and gave it to my father—he returned it to me and went in search of the prisoner—I put the shilling on the mantel shelf in the bar parlour—I took it from there again and gave it to my father.
BURGESS REEVE . I am the father of the last witness. On 22nd Jan. she gave me a shilling—I saw it was bad—I gave it to her—I went out and returned—she gave me the shilling again—I marked it and gave it to the officer.
JANE MARY YOUNG . I am the wife of John Samuel Young, a baker, in Manor-street, Clapham. On 22nd Jan. the prisoner came for a penny loaf—he tendered me a shilling—I observed it was of the reign of George the Third—my husband was standing near me—I gave the prisoner 11d. change, and he left the shop—I placed the shilling in the till—there was one other shilling there, which was of the reign of Victoria—soon after the prisoner was gone I looked at the till—I took out the shilling he gave me, which was of the reign of George the Third—I gave it to my husband—there were only two shillings in the till—the other was a Victoria one.
JOHN SAMUEL YOUNG . I am a baker. I was in my shop on 22nd Jan. when the prisoner came in—I saw him put down a shilling of the reign of George the Third; I saw my wife put it into the till—after he was gone I looked in the till—there was one other shilling there of Victoria—I put the George the Third shilling into my pocket and followed the prisoner to the corner of the street, where he was joined by another person—I followed them to Clapham-common and gave the prisoner into costody—I gave the shilling which he had passed to the officer.
JOHN SMITH (policeman, V 346). I received the prisoner in charge on Clapham-common on 22nd Jan.—I found on him a good sixpence and a penny piece—I received this shilling from Mr. Reeve, and this other from Mr. Young.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Recorder.
MESSRS. BALLANTINE and ROBINSON conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM CURTIS CRUTCHLEY . I live in Lower-road, Rotherhithe, and am clerk in the service of the London Dock Company, the prisoner lives nearly opposite me. On 12th Jan., about half past 6 o'clock in the evening, I was standing opposite the Red Lion at Rotherhithe—the prisoner came and asked whether I had seen Stubbings—I said, "No"—he said he wanted to speak to him particularly, and he asked me to come down Chilton-street and up the Plough-road, because he did not want his father to see him—I went down the Plough-road, and he said should he go and call for Stubbings—I said no, he might be at tea, or his father might be at home—he went and rung at Stubbings's bell, and Miss Stubbings came out and called her brother, Richard Stubbings—he came out; there were then three of us—the prisoner then hung his great coat on the railings—he had had it under his arm—he then came up to me, took me by the collar, and said, "Now, prove I am a liar!"—he then said to Stubbings, "Did you ever catch me out in a lie, Dick?"—Stubbings said, "No"—the prisoner then said to me, "Retract your words"—he said it rather loud, and in a rough way—I said, "You have often called me a liar in a joke, and I have taken no notice of it"—he appeared calm and quite cool—he did not seem to be excited at all; he seemed in rather a bad humour—when I said he had called me a liar, and I bad taken no notice of it, he presented a pistol in my face—I saw him draw it up from his right pocket or his side—he did not say anything, but kept it pointed at me—he took it down again, and in about three seconds afterwards he raised it again and fired it in my face—he had hold of me by the collar with his other hand—he retained hold of my collar the whole time, and kept pinching me tight—the muzzle of the pistol was a few inches from my face when he fired—I felt injured by it—I felt as if my face was all taken up; it was as if the skin of my face was rolled up—my eye was injured, and it is now affected—I was under a medical man for a fortnight or three weeks—by what I could see, the prisoner ran across the field or up the Plough-road—I did not hear him say a word—I know a young lady, named Payne—I was not paying my addresses to her, not at all; I believe the prisoner was—there has never been any conversation between us respecting her that I recollect—I have been in the habit of visiting at her father's house—her brother used to draw, and I used to draw with him in the parlour.
Cross-examined by MR. BODKIN. Q. How old are you? A. Fourteen on 8th of Dec.—I have not begun to court young ladies—there is not a word of truth in it—I have never begun to go after the girls—the prisoner first put up this pistol, and put it down again, still having hold of my collar—the next thing was the discharge of the pistol—I saw the pistol after he put it down, when he raised it up to fire—I ran away as soon as I could—I did not know but that I was going to drop down—my father was put to some expense, he had a medical man to attend me—he did not wish that 7l. Should be paid—nothing of the kind—he would not take it—the prisoner's father and mother have come and said they would pay the expenses—the prisoner gave himself up at the Rose and Crown.
JOHN LAMBERT . I reside in the Borough. I am a smith and work in the Plough-road, Rotherhithe. About a fortnight or three weeks after Christmas I was going down the Plough-road about half-past 6 o'clock in the evening—I saw three young men standing on the foot-path—I watched them—I had some suspicion—I stood in a dark place—I could see their motions by the light of the gas, but I was not near enough to hear what was said—I saw one young man put something towards the others face, which was turned
away, which I thought was a short stick—I know where Stubbings lives; it was close to his house—he pointed this thing, and put it down again—he then held it towards him again—I thought he was going to hit him on the top of the hat—when he turned the third time he fired it directly in his face—I beard it, and saw it—they all three ran away—the one that fired ran towards Plough-bridge—the other two went the other way—then I went away.
COURT. Q. What was it you saw him do with it? A. I saw him point it towards him—he did so the second time, and the second time he turned himself round, and then the young man turned his face towards him, and he fired directly.
RICHARD HEATHER STUBBINGS . I know the prosecutor and the prisoner—I recollect their calling on me 12th Jan. in the evening—the three of us were standing near our gate—they rung for me between a quarter and half-past 6—the prisoner said, "Did you ever find me out in a lie?"—I said, "No, I bate not"—he then said to Crutchley, "Now, prove that I am a liar!"—"Retract you words"—I did not notice what they said afterwards—I was looking down the road—I saw the prisoner leaning his arm on the gate, and heard the report of a pistol, and the wadding struck me on the face—I ran in doors directly.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known the prisoner? A. About a year; be has been a good-natured boy; I never found anything else.
THOMAS HOWARD . I live at the Woodman public-house, at Deptford. On the Saturday before 11th Jan. I had a pistol in my possession—I was going to raffle it—I asked the prisoner if he would make a member—he said he would be a member—I saw him on Sunday, the next day—he said he had got two more members for me; and on the Monday morning he asked me whether I would lend the pistol to him to show it to the two members—this is it (produced)—he came in the evening for it, and I let him have it—I told him not to fire it off, or play any games with it—it was not loaded at that time either with powder or shot—on the next day, about 8 o'clock in the evening, he brought it back, and said he could not get the two members—he told my cousin to give it me—I did not see him myself—my cousin brought it to me.
Cross-examined. Q. What is your cousin's name? A. Betsy Groves; she is not here—she brought it me—I looked at it when it came back—I bad bought it at Deptford—it was to be raffled for 5s.—that was what I gave for it.
GEORGE CRUTCH . I am a surgeon, and a general practitioner in medicine, residing at Rotherhithe. I saw the prosecutor on the evening of 12th Jan.—he was in a considerably agitated state, and had an injury on the left side of his face, which appeared like a burn—it was very likely to have been caused by the discharge of a pistol not loaded with ball—the face was red, slightly swollen, and had numerous small punctured wounds, some of them containing a black substance—the external skin was removed in a small degree, and the eye was injured with these black specks—it is a very slight injury to his present appearance—those black specks will be permanent—he sow complains of weeping, of tears running over the eyelid; whether caused by the injury, or previous to it, I cannot say—the wound was likely to cause it—that probably will be for a long time; whether permanent I cannot say—weeping of the eyes arises from injury to the little duct which communicates with the nose—there are small specks on the white of the eye and the eyelid. Court. Q. The continuity of the skin was not broken? A. Yes, the outward skin; the injury was rather severe—there was a slight appearance
of blood in those wounds, but no blood running down—I saw him about 7 o'clock—there was the appearance of there having been a blister.
JURY. Q. Might he not have scratched his face, and caused the wound? A. He might partly; the cuticles were removed, rubbed up.
FRANCES ELIZABETH PAYNE . I know the prisoner and Crutchley—he was in the habit of visiting at my father's house, and the prisoner was in the habit of visiting at my father's house—he had not visited there for about a fortnight before 12th Jan.—the last time I had seen him at my father's house was 19th Dec.—I was talking to him about his making friends with Crutchley, after not speaking with him for some time—(I had never heard from the prisoner what their quarrel was about)—he said he had only made it up with him to get what he could out of him, and he would lay me a shilling before that day week he should have a serious quarrel with him—I said, "On this day week will be boxing-day"—he said he would not say that day week; he would say that day fortnight, because he should like him to live till after Christmas.
RICHARD WILLIAM KEY (policeman, R 339). On 3rd Feb. the prisoner came to a public house near the police station—he told me he wished to give himself into custody, for shooting a young gentleman—I took him to Rotherhithe station—I had not been looking after him myself—I know information was given at the station—it was read to us in orders on 13th Jan.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
ELIZABETH ILIFF . I live at Seymour-cottage, Newington; I am a widow. I lived with the prisoner, who is my son; he is a coppersmith's porter; he has supported me for many years—on Sunday, 25th Jan., between 10 and 11 o'clock in the morning, I was sitting up in my room—my son came into the room, and cut me across my neck—I felt the blood come from my neck—I said, "John, what are you doing?"—he did not make me any answer; he got up, and ran away, and said he had murdered his mother—I did not see anything in his hand—he was rather queer in his mind—I can assign no reason for his having done this—there had been no quarrel—he had been rather flighty lately.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. How long has he been flighty? A. Two or three months; he has been, in my judgment, sometimes out of his mind—about four years ago he was under the care of Mr. Dry; I was going to have him confined—my husband was not flighty
JANE CHANDLER . I was with Mrs. Iliff, in her room, on Sunday, 25th Jan.; I had occasion to leave the room for about five minutes, about five or ten minutes before 10 o'clock—when I returned to the room the clock was on the strike—I saw the prisoner turn from his mother, and the blood running from her throat—I did not notice that the prisoner had anything in his hand—but after he had gone out of the house, when he was between the door and the gate, I saw a razor in his hand—he said, "I have killed her; she will soon be dead"—I saw the razor drop from his hand—I have observed that his manner has been siugular—one evening I was sitting there, and he jumped up and opened the window and the shutters; and then returned and shut them again—I asked what he did it for—he rubbed his head, and said his head was in a confused state—his behaviour to his mother was very kind and affectionate.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you noticed on other occasions anything singular
in him? A. Yes; he would take things from the table, and say they should not remain there—he has on other occasions said his head was so bad he did not know what he should do.
HENRY READ . I live in the same house with the prisoner. On 25th Jan., about 10 o'clock, I heard a cry of "Murder!"—I ran from my kitchen, through my parlour, into the garden—I there saw the prisoner brandishing a white-handled razor—he said, "I have done it; I have done it, Mr. Read?"—he made his way towards Horsemonger-lane Gaol—I took up the razor, and went in and held Mrs. lliff till the medical gentleman came—I have koown the prisoner four years—I have repeatedly observed very strange ways with him, speaking of things that I was satisfied were far beyond his reach of doing—I did not believe his statements.
Cross-examined. Q. Tell us one or two instances of bis behaviour? A. He acted in a flighty way, and was speaking of things above him—he repeatedly fancied he was a rich man, and said he had purchased things very reasonably, and had got 21. or 31. by them—he has not told me he was very rich, but he has told me he has had that which I knew he had not—he has told me he has sunk money in the funds, and that some future day he should be able to retire and keep his mother, and live independent—I believe he has not money in the funds—I knew his father, I did not notice anything about him—I never spoke to him—the prisoner was a strange man, and believed to be flighty—he told me one time he had purchased some cabs and horses, and he would drive me to my office—he said nothing would give him greater pleasure—I am positive he never did have them—he never asked me to purchase a cottage for him.
ROBERT BREADFORD (police-sergeant, M 12). I saw the prisoner at Horsemonger-lane—a man had got hold of him, and I met him full butt; they were going towards the station—the prisoner said he had cut his mother's throat, and he said afterwards the devil had been seeking him—when he said he had cut his mother's throat, I said, "What with?"—he said, "With a razor"—he said he had put it in his mother's mouth—then he recalled his words, and said, "I think I did;" and he said afterwards he did not know what he had done with it—I secured him at the station, and went to Mrs. Iliff—I found her lying on the bed, and a great quantity of blood—I took her to the hospital—I found this razor in the room with blood on it.
Cross-examined. Q. How long did he say the devil had been seeking him? A. He said for three weeks.
Witnesses for the Defence.
WINTER HARRIS . I am the surgeon of Horsemonger-lane Gaol. I attended the prisoner on the Tuesday morning after this took place on the Sunday—he was in a most excited state, and very dejected—I believe he was perfectly insane at that time.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Can you tell whether he was in that state in which he would be likely to do a thing on the sudden, not knowing it was wrong? A. He appeared so—he appeared to me to be labouring under insanity; he got better afterwards—in my professional judgment he was on Tuesday out of his mind.
GILBERT M'MURDO . I am surgeon of Newgate. I saw the prisoner on the day of his admission to Newgute; he came from Horsemonger-lane Gaol here—in my judgment he was insane at that time—he has been gradually becoming calmer, but for several days he remained in that state which I should pronounce to be insane.
Cross-examined. Q. Was he in such a state that he might be led on to
do an act, not knowing that he was doing wrong? A. Yes; if led on by evil spirits.
WILLIAM HENRY DRY . I am a surgeon, and live in Lock's-fields. I attended the prisoner I think about six or seven years ago—he was decidedly insane—he remained so for two or three weeks—he was part of the time under restraint—I have heard the account of the act he did—I believe he might have committed that without having any control over himself, and from an act which he has endeavoured to do on himself—eight or nine years ago he attempted suicide by the razor.
NOT GUILTY, being Insane.
MR. PAYNE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM JORDAN . I am in the employ of Mr. Harris, a town carman, of Catharine-wheel-square, Bishopsgate—I know the two prisoners—on 27th Dec. I was near a chapel in Maze-pond, Bermondsey, about half-past two o'clock in the day—I had a van with me—the prisoner Davis came to me—he was carrying some sacks which were put one in another—he chucked them in the van—he gave me an order—(I had been ordered to meet him there, by Mr. Harris—I usually stand in Bishopsgate-street)—this is the order—King was with Davis at the time—Davis told me to go to East-lane, Bermondseywall—I was to get wheat in the sacks—I went to the wharf, and delivered the order to the foreman—King stopped in Maze-pond—Davis went on with the van and showed me where the place was—after he had shown me the place he said he would go and get me another horse—I gave the order, and got the wheat loaded in the sacks, and then as Davis did not come I drew out with one horse—I saw Davis but he had not got the horse, and he and I went on together till we got to Maze-pond—I saw King, he took me in a public-house to get a drink of beer—Davis said he would mind the van till I came out—we had a pot of beer in the public-house, which King paid for—I remained there with him about five minutes—I left him there, and came out by myself, and my van which I had left with Davis was gone, I looked everywhere for it, and could not see it—I went to King and told him—he said it would not be many minutes before it would be back—in about a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes I saw the van again, and Davis was with it—the wheat was not in it—I asked Davis where he had been with the van—he said, "To the South Eastern Railway"—he paid me 8s. for my hire, and I went home—King had come outside of the public-house when the van came back, and I left him with Davis in Maze-pond.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. You went by desire of Mr. Harris, your master? A. Yes; Davis gave me this order in the street, where I got the sacks.
COURT. Q. Was King by, when Davis gave you that order? A. Davis was in the van with me, and King was standing down in the street—I do not know whether he saw the order—we left him in Maze Pond.
HENRY THOMAS . I am foreman to Messrs. Addiss, trading under the firm of T. Addiss and Son; they are granary keepers—we had some corn there, subject to the orders of Mr. Burton—it required Mr. Burton's order to get it away—this order (looking at it) was produced to me by the last witness—in consequence of that I delivered fifteen quarters of wheat into the sacks he brought.
—I had some wheat of his at Mr. Addiss' premises—it was subject to my order—it could not be delivered without my order—I took away a portion of that wheat by virtue of an order from Mr. Charrington—this order produced was not written by me, nor by any person by my authority—it is not the writing of any one in my employ—I know Davis, partly to my loss—I did not authorize him to take this order to any one.
Cross-examined. Q. How often have you seen him write? A. Twice; the last time was about Christmas, and the other time was two years ago, in 1850—I was waited upon by Mr. Baker, the officer; he showed me this document—he did not inquire for Davis; that, I believe, is not his name; his name is Craddock—he inquired for Craddock—he showed me this document—I told him I thought it was Craddock's—I had before that taken out the writing that I had of Davis's, and when this was told me I compared the two together, and it is on that comparison that I am speaking—now after I have compared it I know it, from having looked over the handwriting which I had in my possession—till I looked over that writing I could not swear to it, except from the comparison; but having seen that I can.
MR. PAYNE. Q. You had in your possession two receipts of his writing? A. Yes; I have refreshed my memory by looking at them—I now believe that this document is Davis's writing.
GEORGE FORD . I am carman to Mr. Burton, at his wharf—I know the prisoner King—I know this order (looking at one)—King had this order in his possession on the morning of 27th Dec, about 7 o'clock—I had two horses—I was going in the country with a load of wheat, part of this order; and our clerk said, "Send somebody forwards to see where it is," and I sent King.
COURT to MR. BURTON. Q. You know Davis; had you any transactions with him in business? A. No; he had no means of knowing my hand-writing; this is signed "For Thomas Burton, C. Smith."
(Davis was further charged with having been before convicted.)
HARRY HAYWARD (policeman, K 401). I produce a certificate of Davis's former conviction—(read—"Oct. 25, 1847; William Davis convicted, and transported for seven years")—he is the person—I was present when he was tried.
DAVIS— GUILTY of uttering. Aged 38.— Confined Six Months.
KING— NOT GUILTY .
(Davis stated that after having undergone a portion of his former sentence, he was liberated, and had twice got into honest employment, from which he was dismissed in consequence of an officer, named Summerfield, informing his employers of his having been convicted.)
MR. LILLEY conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY FRANCIS COLLIER BARBER . I am a chemist, and reside at Jamaica Level, Bermondsey, in the parish of St. Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey. On the night of 11th Feb. I was going round my premises with a candle as usual, ahout half-past 10 o'clock; and while passing through the yard of my premises, a quantity of sulphuric and tartaric acid was thrown in my face—it produced most violent pain, and more particularly an irritation of the eye—
it bled for a time—some of the acid went in my mouth, and it put out the candle—I called for another light, and I rushed out at the side door, the only way the person could escape by, and locked the door after me—that was the only door he was likely to get out of; he might have gone a circuitous way round—I ran and washed my eye with water, and went to the bottom of my garden—I called the assistance of Mr. Phillips; he came to my assistance—he remained at the top of the garden, at the great gates leading to the road, in the first instance—I got a light, and searched my premises—I heard a shuffling footstep up stairs, in the top loft—I traced them from floor to floor—I first went in the ground floor, then in the floor above that—I heard the shuffling of feet over my head—I called out to Mr. Phillips that I had them safe, and he might now come to my assistance—I then advanced to the foot of a broad step ladder, leading to the upper floor—there is a trap door in the centre of the building—I advanced to the ladder, and saw some person standing at the top of the ladder, with two pistols in his hand—I had the light in my hand, which I held above my head—the person had the pistols rather crossways in his hands—they appeared to me to be in this position (crossing his hands), but the light was indistinct; I could not see exactly—on setting my foot on the first step of the ladder, the prisoner was at the top and fired—the ladder was from seven to eight feet long—the floors are the height of sugar baker's floors, seven feet high—I can undertake to say that the pistol which was fired was loaded with something; that which it was loaded with struck the candlestick out of my hand, and knocked a piece off my fore-finger—the ball struck me on the forehead, and went through the hair of my head—my hand was at that time holding the light above my head—I had a brass chamber candlestick in my hand—I persisted in going up the ladder, and the prisoner fired a second pistol—the contents of that went down my back, making a superficial wound as it passed, passing through my shirt and outer garments—it broke the skin—I cannot say how deep it was—I could not see it myself, being at the back of my shoulder—I believe it was but slight—I went up the ladder to the floor, and secured the prisoner—I took the two pistols from him—I delivered him to the policeman, who had by that time arrived—these (produced) are the pistols I took from the prisone; they had been recently fired—they have percussion locks—I was present when the prisoner was searched: a sort of steel box was found on him, a few caps, some pieces of lead, and a few watch keys—the policeman took possession of the box and other things, and I handed these pistols to him—these caps were not tried by me, nor I do not know that they were tried in my presence.
Cross-examined by MR. DEARSLEY. Q. At the time the pistol was fired you were going up the ladder? A. I was; I had merely one foot on it—the wounds were not of that nature that I was obliged to have medical aid—they were merely grazes—at the time the prisoner fired he was not more than a yard from me—the ladder is about seven feet high; I stood with one foot on it—I went and washed away what was thrown in my face immediately—it was a mixture of sulphuric acid and tartaric acid, in a state of composition.
COURT. Q. Is that used in your manufactory? A. Yes; there was a mixture of that there, which a person could have access to—the prisoner had been employed by me, but was not at that time—he had left of his own accord—he informed me that he had got a better situation.
MR. DEARSLEY. Q. There was no ill-feeling between you? A. Not the slightest—previous to this he had borne a respectable character—his father was an old servant of mine many years—when I heard the shuffling of feet up stairs, I fancied at the time that it sounded like the feet of more than one
person—there was an exit by a circuitous route, by which a person might have left the place—I do not know that when the prisoner was in my service he used to have pistols to amuse himself; I should not have allowed it for an instant.
ALFRED PHILLIPS . I live at Jamaica Level, Bermondsey; I am a gardener. On 11th Feb. about half-past 10 o'clock in the evening, I heard a cry for assistance come from Mr. Barber's premises—I saw Mr. Barber and I went to him—I remained outside a short time, and I afterwards went on the premises—I followed Mr. Barber through the lower part of the factory—I went up stairs—Mr. Barber went up to the middle floor of the factory, and as he was about to put his foot, or had put his foot on the lower round of the ladder to go to the upper floor, a pistol was fired from the upper floor—I saw some person standing on the top of the ladder, which I ultimately found to be the prisoner—after the firing of the first pistol Mr. Barber proceeded to go up the ladder, and as he was ascending a second pistol was fired in the same direction—Mr. Barber instantly flew up the ladder, and got the prisoner—I assisted in securing him; he had the two pistols in his hand—they were taken away from him—I looked at them; they looked as if they had been recently fired—I handed the prisoner over to the policeman.
JOHN CARTHY (policeman, M 226). About half-past 10 o'clock at night, on 11th Feb., I went to Mr. Barber's premises—I saw the prisoner there; he was given into custody by Mr. Barber—Mr. Barber told me, in his presence, that he had thrown acid into his face, and had fired two shots, and said, "Is not this a hanging matter?"—the prisoner said be could hang well—on the way to the station, a female, whom I did not know, gave me this black mask—the prisoner saw it in my possession, and he said, "It is mine; I threw it away"—when the female brought it me she said she had picked it up in the road, and she saw the prisoner throw it away—I produce this steel box, I found it on the prisoner, it had tobacco in it; and I found on his person five percussion caps, four pieces of lead, and some watch keys—they were all in one pocket, I believe his trowsers pocket—I saw this bullet picked up on Mr. Barber's premises; it was lying on the floor, in the middle floor of the warehouse—I saw it found by a young man, a friend of Mr. Barber's—it has been in my possession ever since.
Cross-examined. Q. Was that on the floor above the ladder? A. It was; the floor on which Mr. Barber was standing—there are two ladders, one from the bottom to the second floor, and then one to another floor—this was not on the floor above the second ladder—I know the floor Mr. Barber was on when he was shot at, it was at the bottom of the ladder on that floor.
COURT. Q. How far from the foot of the ladder was this bullet found? A. On one side of it; I suppose a yard, or a yard and a half from it, it might be—I examined the premises to see if there were any marks of a bullet; I did not find any—I looked on the same floor where I found this—I looked all over every place down below—I examined the wall on the opposite side—we examined the walls and the partition, and found no mark.
HENRY MIDDLETON (police sergeant, M 2). I have a knowledge of firearms—about an hour and a half after the prisoner was locked up thia bullet was shown to me; it is lead—it had been recently fired off—it had a dampness about it, and smelt of fire.
COURT. Q. Is not the effect of firing a bullet to flatten it? A. No; it may go through a person and not flatten it—I have been in the army, and have had five wounds.
MR. LILLEY. Q. Was the prisoner brought to the station? A. He was
—the constable, Carthy, produced two pistols to me, in presence of the prisoner—he asked me if they had been recently fired, and fired with ball—I said I could not tell whether they had been loaded with ball, but I believed they had been recently fired—the prisoner immediately said, "Yes, they were fired, and both loaded with ball."
Cross-examined. Q. Were you before the Magistrate? A. Yes; I made this statement before the Magistrate.
COURT to JOHN CARTHY. Q. Were you the policeman who asked that question? A. Yes; I did not tell that, because I thought I would leave it to the sergeant—I heard the prisoner say what has been stated.
COURT to ALFRED PHILLIPS. Q. Did you see a wound on Mr. Barber's back? A. I did; it was about two inches long, and one inch broad—I examined these clothes in Mr. Barber's own house—here is a hole in the collar of this frock dress, over the left shoulder, and one lower in the back—I have his shirt here—here is blood on it, and a hole.
COURT to MR. BARBER. Q. Where did this blood come from, on the front of the shirt? A. I presume from my finger; and this behind is blood from the wound in my back.
Q. Was there any mark on the lower part of your clothes where anything came out? A. No, not below the shirt—I had a waistcoat on beside this shirt and frock—the waistcoat is not here—I never thought of it—there would doubtless be a hole in it—I did not see these things at the time they were taken off—I was stripped in my drawing-room—I was bathing my eye and face—I was in extreme agony.
GUILTY on the Second Count. Aged 17.— Transported for Ten Years.
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, APIRL 5TH, 1852.