CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
NINTH SESSION, HELD JULY 3RD, 1848.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
Taken in Short-hand
JAMES DROVER BARNETT
33, Southampton-street, Strand.
GEORGE HEBERT, CHEAPSIDE.
TYLER & REED, PRINTERS, BOLT-COURT, FLEET-STREET.
On the Queen's Commission of the Peace,
OYER AND TERMINER, AND GAOL DELIVERY
The City of London,
AND GAOL DELIVERY FOR THE
COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX, AND THE PARTS OF THE COUNTIES OF ESSEX, KENT, AND SURREY, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,
Held on Monday, July 3rd, 1848, and following Days.
Before the Right Hon. JOHN KINNERSLEY HOOPER, LORD MAYOR of the City of London; Sir Thomas Wilde, Knt., Lord Chief Justice of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas: Sir James Parke, Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer: Sir William Henry Maule, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas: Sir Peter Laurie, Knt.; Samuel Wilson, Esq.; Sir Chapman Marshall, Knt.; John Humphery, Esq., M. P.; Sir William Magnay, Bart.; Michael Gibbs. Esq.; John Johnson, Esq.; and Sir George Carroll, Knt.; Aldermen of the said City: the Hon. Charles Ewan Law, M. P., Recorder of the said City: Sir James Duke, Knt., M. P.; Thomas Challis, Esq.; Francis Graham Moon, Esq.; David Salomons, Esq.; Thomas Quested Finnis, Esq.; and William Lawrence, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City: John Mirehouse, Esq., Common-Serjeant of the said City: and Edward Bullock, Esq., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court: Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and Gaol Delivery of Newgate holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.
THOMAS FRANCE, Esq., and DAVID WILLIAMS WIRE, Esq., Under-Sheriffs.
LIST OF JURORS.
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
HOOPER, MAYOR. NINTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—Two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—An obelisk (†) that they are known to be the associates of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, May 3rd, 1848.
PRESENT—The LORD MAYOR; Mr. Ald. WILSON; Mr. Ald JOHNSON; Sir GEORGE CARROLL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER and Sir JAMES DUKE, Knt., Ald.
Before Mr. Recorder and the First Jury.
1640. WILLIAM GIRDLESTONE, CHARLES SWAN , and JOHN SAUNDERS , were indicted for unlawfully conspiring together falsely to charge Richard Carrol Barton, Francis M'Gowran, and James M'Gowran, with the forgery of a will of one Francis M'Gowran.
MESSRS. CLARKSON, BODKIN and BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM RAWOOD . I am a clerk in the Prerogative-office, Doctors' Commons. I produce from the proper custody there the original will of Mr. Francis M'Gowran, dated 19th Oct. 1841—the wills are in the immediate custody of the record-keepers, Mr. Ellis and Mr. Capes—I was desired to bring this will here by Mr. Ford, who is assistant to the record-keepers—he gave it me this morning, out of the strong-room.
Saunders, (who had frequently interrupted Mr. Clarkson in his opening with similar observations.) This will was altered whilst it was in Doctors' Commons; I saw it before the probate was issued; you may hang or transport me if you like, but I swear it has been altered, or I am blind; I declare before God it is a forged will; talk about conspiracy! what should I have to do with it? I could get no money from two poor devils like these; I have helped them, and not they me.
WILLIAM KIRKMAN . I am managing clerk to Messrs. Fox, Nicholls, and Co., the proctors employed by the executors. I engrossed this probate (produced) from this will, before 9th Dec. 1841, before the will was deposited in the public office—that is the practice—after I had examined the probate with the original will, I took it for registry to Doctors' Commons; I have no memorandum of the day, but probably it was deposited two or three days before the grant of probate, which bears date 9th Dec, 1841—I have now looked through the sheets of the will separately, and as far as I know it is in the same state as it was when it came to our hands—I took more notice of this will than I do of wills generally, because there were several alterations and interlineations in it when it was first brought, and they are here now, and
there was an affidavit annexed to the will accounting for those alterations, which is here now—the testator died 2nd Nov., 1841—the will was in one possession about a fortnight before it was proved—I believe it was deposited with us by Messrs. Watkins and Hooper—every sheet is not signed and attested, but the initials of the witnesses are to the principal part of the inter-lineations, not to all; and there is a memorandum at the end, "I declare this to be my last will and testament, contained in this and the nine preceding sheets"—there are nine preceding sheets—shortly after the wills are deposited in the public office, it is the duty of one of the clerks to attach the whole by a silken string, and also to attach a seal—when I engrossed the probate I took a memorandum of all the alterations and interlineations, but I did not preserve it—we prepared an affidavit from that—I examined the affidavit—it was made by Mr. Mundell, a notary—I did not accompany him to swear it—it was sworn on 24th Nov.—it had been prepared a day or two previous—the will would probably be in my custody from the time the affidavit was prepared—I have access to the chest where the original wills are placed—after finishing the engrossment, I deposited the original will in the Prerogative-office, most likely about 1st Dec, two or three days before the probate would bear date—there was about a week or ten days between the preparation of the affidavit and the deposit of the will at Doctors' Commons—during that time it was in a chest in our office; I myself deposited it there—I have no doubt whatever that it is in the same state as it was when I engrossed the probate from it—there is apparently nothing that is different from the stats in which I deposited it.
Saunders. The sheets have been exchanged. Witness, I can identify these as the identical sheets that were in our possession before they went into the public office—I find my own marks on them.
WILLIAM RAWOOD re-examined. The string and seal are attached to the will before it is permitted to be examined by the public—I do not believe it is possible that the will could have been altered since.
JAMES FORD . I am assistant to the record-keepers at Doctors' Commons. It is my duty when an original will is required to be produced in a Court of Justice, to take it from the proper record-room, and deliver it to the witness who is to produce it—this will comes from the strong-room of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury—I took it myself from that room this morning, and delivered it to Mr. Rawood—when wills are delivered in from the senior Stamp-office clerk, to the clerk of the current or unregistered wills, he puts on them a seal, all the sheets being attached by a silken cord—that would be done before the will was registered—I cannot say that no portion of it could be abstracted after that, because it has been done when anything informal has transpired; the clerk has been requested to take it apart, and put on a fresh seal—it could not be done without the knowledge of the parties at the office.
Saunders. Without the parties are bribed. Witness. I should say the string has not received any disruption, nor is there any appearance of any alteration.
COURT. Q. What is the practice after a will has been registered, when it is produced to any one for examination? A. We bring it to him, but two or three of us watch him—the original will is never parted with out of the office, or out of the sight of one of the clerks.
Saunders. Lawyers are allowed to take wills home to their offices to make extracts. Witness. Never; they are never out of the office under any circumstances, except for such an occasion as this—any person allowing such a thing would be discharged—I am not aware of any person being discharged on
that account—we never leave any person alone with the will—we take the same precaution with a professional person as with a stranger—when wills are copied, they are given out by the record-keepers to the copying-clerks, who take them to their own desks to copy, and there is a person appointed to take them from the clerks in the evening—they are not taken out of the office—they could not possibly remove any part of it—the seal is there.
Cross-examined by MR. WILDE. Q. How long have you been assistant to the record-keeper? A. Seven or eight years—I have never heard any complaints made in the office about wills being occasionally altered, except by insane persons—any person can inspect a will by paying 1s.—they can see either the original or a copy—the ordinary course is for them to see a copy in the books, and if they wish to see the original, they pay another shilling—it is very rarely the case that the copying clerk has the original will to copy from—the copy would be made from the registration, which is an engrossment on parchment in a book—we do in some cases hand the original will to a copying clerk to copy; it would then be in his hands without any check, for the time being.
RICHARD CAPES . I am senior record-keeper at Doctors' Commons. A responsible clerk has charge of the keys of the record-room during the day, and at night he hands them over to another responsible clerk, who lives in the house for the purpose of taking care of the premises—the keys are hung up during the day, when not wanted, on a rail in front of my desk.
RICHARD CARROL BARTON . I am a solicitor, and have resided at Lambeth all ray life—I am solicitor for the Rector and churchwardens and some of the other officers there. On 13th April last, whilst in my own office, I was taken into custody on a warrant, charged with forging the will of my father-in-law, Mr. M'Gowran—Girdlestone was with the policeman who had tie warrant—I was detained at the station-house that night, and was taken before a Judge next morning, who immediately admitted me to bail—Swan was there in the outer chamber, and Girdlestone went before the Judge—he opposed my being bailed, and said that the Judge had no power to do it—I attended before Mr. Justice Coldridge, when my two brothers-in-law, Messrs. Francis and James M'Gowran, applied to be admitted to bail—they were in custody on the same charge—it was opposed—Saunders, Girdlestone, and Swan were there on that occasion together—they did not go before the Judge—they were talking together in the outer room—I saw them for a very short time, as I was obliged to go away—I and the two Mr. M'Gowrans surrendered here on 17th May last to take our trial—Mr. Huddleston appeared on the part of the prosecution—Girdlestone, Swan, and Saunders were called on their recognizances by one of the officers of the Court—neither of them appeared—the Court, on the proposition of our counsel, postponed the case for a time—it stood over three quarters of an hour—they did not then appear, and the Judge directed the Jury to acquit us—we were all three obliged to stand in the dock—on the application of Mr. Clarkson, the Court ordered the brief for the prosecution to be impounded, and Mr. Huddleston handed it to the officer of the Court—I married a daughter of Mr. M'Gowran's, after her father's death—I was paying my addresses to her during her father's life-time—he was a very old friend of mine and of my father's also—his family consisted of two sons and two daughters—his two sons are persons of property, the elder one the more so—one daughter, named Smith, is a widow, who had five children, one of whom lived with the deceased—the other daughter, Sophia, is my wife—the deceased also had a niece, who married Girdlestone—she was living at the time of the testator's death, but
is since dead—he was in the habit of doing little acts of kindness towards her, after her marriage—he advanced small sums of money to set them up in business, and so on—Girdlestone was formerly in the employment of the Customs—I remember his being imprisoned, three or four years before Mr. M'Gowran's death—among other property, the testator had three houses and a blacksmith's shop, in Webber-row, Southwark.
Saunders. It was Nos. 1, 2, and 3, Hertford-place, when I lived there. Witness. I have known Webber-row for many years—it was formerly called Hertford-place—I believe the name was altered by the parish, when great alterations were made—I hare nothing particular to call my attention to the date of the alteration, but it was called Webber-row at the time the will was made—Girdlestone lived in one of those houses, on his coming out of prison about 1839—Saunders lived there also, about two years before Mr. M'Gowran's death—he was not living there at the time of his death—the other houses were a coal-shed and a general shop—Girdlestone continued to occupy the house until about six or eight months ago—the testator held all those houses from the City of London, at a ground-rent of 12l. a year—I was frequently consuited about that property by the testator—Girdlestone has told me that he was permitted to live in the house on condition of his paying the ground-rent for the whole: 12l.—he did not have a lease—it was part of the arrangement that he was to collect the rents of the other two houses for Mr. M'Gowran—Girdlestone told me so himself—he was to act as agent for the other property—that single house was worth 40l. a year—about Sept. 1841, the testator wished me to make his will—I declined doing so, because I was about to become a member of his family, and it might be looked on by the other members of the family as not the thing—a gentleman named Eld ridge, a conveyancer, was employed—Messrs. Watkins and Hooper of Sackville-street, acted as solicitors to the executors—in, 1843, the executors took proceedings against Girdlestone, to make him pay the 12l. ground-rent—they had litigation with him lasting for some time—in the course of those disputes I have seen Swan with Girdlestone occasionally; he was at the trial, and apparently acting with him—I had nothing to do with the preparation of this will (looking at it)—I have not interfered with it in any way—I did not take out any sheets and put others in, nor alter it in any shape or way.
Swan. I was at the trial, at Kingston, in 1843, but I was subpoenaed there. Witness. I do not know that—I know that his name was included in an affidavit as a witness.
Girdlestone. Q. With respect to that trial, you bad the proceedings against me; what did it arise from? A. The executors distrained for the 12l. (relating to which there is a power of distress in the will,) in consequence of your neglecting or refusing to pay it—that distress was replevined by you, and you pleaded twelve or sixteen pleas in bar to the action; first of all denying the tide of the City of London, following it by steps; then denying the will, and that the executors assented to the bequest;. denying, in fact, all from beginning to end—we were put to great trouble and expense—the case proceeded to trial, and a verdict was found on every issue—one point was reserved, namely, whether the executors were forced and obliged to pay the 12l. a year rent, but that was found to be an immaterial issue, and therefore all the issues were found for the executors—it cost us about 300l.—the executors gained the action—I made no proposition to Mr. Brown, that you should give up the property, and I pay all expenses; nor did Mr. Brown tell me he would bring the account to-morrow—you applied for a new trial, and we had to show cause against it.
WILLIAM ELDRIDGE . I am now at the bar—I have for six" years practised as a conveyancer. In the beginning of Sept. 1841, I was employed by Mr. Barton to prepare a will for Mr. Francis M'Gowran—I went according to his directions to see Mr. M'Gowran—I knew Mr. Barton, and as he was engaged to. Mr. M'Gowran's daughter he wished me to go as his friend—I think I saw Mr. M'Gowran at the. latter end of Sept. 1841, I received instructions from him which I took down in writing at the time, at his bedside—these are the original notes which I took at that time (producing them)—I drew up the. will on those instructions—this is the will (looking at it)—I read it over to Mr. M'Gowran after it was prepared—it was. engrossed by Mr. Charles Mullens—the draft was read over to the testator—I attended thrice—there were alterations made in it by his directions—Mr. Clay, the family surgeon, was present when the will was executed—he came in at that moment—it had then been read over, and the alterations made-they were made at the testator's-desire in the engrossment—I afterwards made the affidavit, which is now attached to the will with reference to those alterations—there seemed to be some few alterations with reference to Mrs. Girdlestone's property; for instance, "Southwark" is substituted for" Westminster," "such" instead of "each"—there is no alteration in the effect of the will, as far as Mrs. Girdlestone is concerned—the whole of the alterations are in my writing, and have my initials to each in the margin—Mr. Clay's initials are there also—all the alterations, and tie initials, were on it at the time the testator executed it—the testator signed the final sheet—my initials are to each sheet, so that no sheet can have been substituted—there is writing of mine on every sheet—not the least alteration has been made since it was executed—I am certain it is in exactly the same state now as it was when it was executed by the testator—I am one of the attesting witnesses.
COURT. Q. There is a line struck through, and the words, "Not registered" put, that of course has been added since? A. That is not my writing—I had put in a power originally to change securities, to which the testator at first assented, but afterwards said he would not have it, and it was. struck out.
RICHARD CLAY . I am. a surgeon, and was in the habit of attending the late Mr. M'Gowran during his illness. On 19th Oct. I was requested to attend to witness the execution of his will—this is the will (looking at it)—my initials are on each of the sheets—the testator was of sound mind and memory at the time he executed it—I saw both Girdlestone and Swan three or four months ago, to the best of my recollection, at ray surgery—I think Girdlestone asked me whether I had ever made any affidavit respecting the will of Mr. M'Gowrari, and 1 said no, I never had—he then asked whether I would have any objection to make an affidavit to that effect—of course I was very indignant at my name having been forged, as I supposed, and I said. "No"—he told me that an affidavit had been made in my name respecting this will, but I find none has been made—I made the affidavit before a Justice at Wandsworth—he did not say what he wanted it for—he called on me again a day or two after, and wished me to go before the Grand Jury to. prove that I had made the affidavit, but I said I would not; I thought. I had done sufficient in making the affidavit—he said be would try and do without me; that he was going to indict Mr. Barton and the Mr. M'Gowrans for forgery—Swan was with him at that time.
Girdlestone. Q. Can you conscientiously say that those are your initials on that will? A. They are, and I have always told you so over and over again.
CHARLES MULLENS . I am in the employment of Mr. Alfred Mayhew, a solicitor, and have once or twice copied papers for Mr. Eldridge—this will is written by me; I copied it from the draft furnished by Mr. Eldridge—the whole of this appears to be in my writing, with the exception of the alterations—it is written on nine sheets and a piece—the words "This and the nine preceding sheets," have been filled in since, in Mr. Eldridge's writing with that exception, if. is in the same state as when it left my hands.
RICHARD FRANCIS WOODRUFF . I am one of the firm of Martin and Woodruff, of College-hill. Last year, and part of this, we were solicitors to Mr. James M'Gowran—I took proceedings against Girdlestone—at various times he has threatened to place me, my clerk," and the Messrs. M'Gowran, at the bar of the Old Bailey—I saw Swan in the course of those proceedings.
Swan. Q. Was I with Girdlestone when he made the threats? A. No,
Girdlestone. Q. What did I say? A. I cannot recollect the exact words, but on one occasion you threatened that before three weeks were over I should be in the Old Bailey.
BENJAMIN PIGCOTT . I live at 2, Little Moore-place, Brook-street, Lambeth. In Feb. last, Swan and Girdlestone came to my lodgings, to take them—Girdlestone lived at 104, Brook-street—they took the lodging for Swan; Girdlestone was to be responsible for the rent—Swan afterwards came and occupied the place—Girdlestone visited him there, and I have seen Saunders there frequently—they did not tell me how they were engaged—sometimes of an evening, when Swan came, we used to have a little conversation, and Swan then said he was a lawyer by trade; they did not, either of them, say how they were then engaged—after Swan had been there some time he said he had a lawsuit in hand, at Doctors' Commons, about a will—my wife was present then; Girdlestone was not—I have had no conversation with Swan about law business when Girdlestone has been there—I did not hear when the lawsuit was to he finished, hut he said when it was settled I was to have my rent, and not before, because Swan said he had got some money coming to him; but I have had none—Mr. Girdlestone said he could not pay us the rent", because he was short of money, because he had the lawsuit in hand-Swan was not then present—I afterwards went frequently to Girdlestone's house to get the rent—Swan. was still living with me—he went away without giving me notice; I do not know exactly when that was; I think it was on the Monday following the trial here—I did not get the rent at all—I went to Girdlestone for it on the Friday morning—he told me to call on Saturday evening, and he moved away in the middle of the day, when I got there, he had moved his goods, and had given me a false address as to where he was going to.
Swan. Q. Have you never received any rent? A. Yes, 9s.; that was for a fortnight—you were there ten weeks.
FRANCIS HOOPER . I am a solicitor, in partnership with Mr. Watkins, in Sackville-street. I acted as solicitor to the executors of the late Mr. M'Gowran, and took this will to the proctor, for the purpose of being proved in the ordinary way—I had before that prepared a will for the testator, of which I have the draft here (producing it)—after that he executed another will—I have not seen the will in question since it was deposited—I am aware of the nature of the distribution of the property under that will—I believe there is some difference between the two wills as to Mrs. Girdlestone's interest, but I cannot tell what—(the witness was here directed to examine the two wills)—the result appears to be this, that No. 2, Webber-row, and a blacksmith's shop behind, were by the first will given to Girdlestone, and Nos. 1
and 3 to Charles and Caroline and Rosa Collins, nephew and nieces of the testator; and under the second will, Girdlestone takes no interest, but No. 2, and the shop, is given on trust to Mrs. Girdlestone, subject to the payBent of 12l. a year, the entire ground-rent, and a power is given to the trustees to demise with the consent of Mrs. Girdlestone (reading the passages.)
Cross-examined. Q. I believe, as solicitor for the executors, you satisfied a judgment that was recovered by Saunders for an illegal distress? A. There were some monies paid out of the estate for the discharge of a debt that was due by the testator under that judgment, but I am not aware of the particulars—I know there was a judgment outstanding that I was ordered to satisfy—I dare say it was in reference to an action of replevin, by Saunders.
LEWIS JOES JONES . I am clerk to Mr. Huddleston, the barrister. I received this brief from the prisoner Girdlestone—the name "William Girdle-stone" appears on the bottom of it—from instructions from Mr. Huddle-ston, I returned him the brief, and told him it was not Mr. Huddleston's practice to take a brief except it came through the acting attorney, and he sad, "Oh, that shall be done in the evening: it shall be done through an attorney "—it was returned in the evening—I did not receive it, I only found it at chambers when I got there—the name of Girdlestone was then scratched oat and the name of Skinner put on the brief—I remember the trial—I was in Court before it was called on—I saw Girdlestone in the building at half-past nine o'clock that day—the case was to come on at ten—the brief and fees were returned to Mr. Straight.
THOMAS ALLEY JONES . In May last I was solicitor for the three gentlemen who were indicted for forging the will, and am now the attorney for the prosecution—I served a copy of this notice, personally, on Girdlestone, last Friday, on his being brought up to the Judges' Chambers, by one of the detective police.
BEAUMONT MACLURE . I am clerk to Mr. Jones. I served a copy of this notice on the defendant Swan, personally, on Saturday last, in Newgate—I served one on Saunders, at the office of Messrs. Watford and Cripps, his attorneys—(The notice to Saunders not being personally served was not read; the other notices were to produce an. I O U for 200l., alleged by Girdlestone to be received from the testator, and the declarations made by Girdlestone and Swan before the Magistrate.
CHARLES CHESTER . I am an attorney. I have occasionally employed Swan as a law-writer, for about twelve years—he has served his articles, but he is not an attorney to my knowledge—this brief is his writing—this-affidavit, these summonses, and the endorsement on them are likewise his writing.
EDWARD HENRY ALDRIDGE . I am clerk in the Rule-office at the Queen's Bench. I produce the affidavit, and two summonses annexed to it—if the party does not attend the first summons another is taken out, and if they do not attend that then the Judge makes an order exparte on an affidavit—(In this affidavit Swan described himself as attorney for Girdlestone.)
(The brief was here read, containing the declarations of the defendants; that of Girdlestone was made on 11th March, 1848, in which he stated that he was present on 10th Nov. 1841, at the testator's house when the will was read over, and on afterwards seeing it at Doctors' Commons he immediately pronounced it to be a forgery; that Mr. Barton had admitted to Mm that the will was a forgery, and that the executors, Francis and James M'Gowran, were fully aware of that fact, and thai he was fully satisfied that Mr. Barton committed-
the forgery under the direction of the executors. The declarations of Swam and Saunders were to the effect, that having inspected the will at Doctors' Commons, it then contained a bequest of Nos. 1, 2, and 3, Hertford-place, to Margaret Girdlestone.)
JAMES M'GOWRAN . I am one of the sons of the late Mr. Francis M'Gowran—I was one of the parties indicted, and was locked up in Newgate. About four or five months ago I went to Girdlestone, to try to get some rent—we had been at law together before that—he beckoned me into his house, and said, "I shall have no more law with you in—that Court, you have robbed me, and I shall bring you to the bar of the Old Bailey, for forgery"—I said, "Well, you may do it as soon as you like"—he said, "Well, you had better settle it, and not let me do it"—I said, "What do you mean? "—he said, "If you will give me the two houses next to mine, and make me an allowance for the back rent, I will not prosecute "—with that, I said I would put an execution in for the rent, and went out—he called me back, and said, "Well, as the houses belong to you, you will not like to give them up; there is plenty of money in your family, if your family will give me 200l., and you will refund the back rents you have received, I will not take proceedings against you; if you don't, you must understand me that—I will indict both you and your brother for forging the will you have forged"—I then walked away—I was taken into custody at Brentford, at my own house—I did not see Swan at the time I was taken—he came to my house afterwards, and served me with a notice that I was to appear, to take my trial; and when I went to be bailed Saunders was there, with Girdlestone, to oppose me.
Girdlestone. Q. When he came to my house he said, "Now, Girdlestone, I will forgive you the 28l. on this Writ of Error, and make some arrangement to pay the rent; and if you don't like that, I will assist you in throwing the property into Chancery; or if that will not do, I will make the children wards of Chancery;" I said, "I do not see my way clear in either of those courses; if you like to give up the property to the children, quietly, we can settle it;" he said he would not do that; and that was all that was mentioned. Witness. Every word of that is false, on my oath.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you forge the will, or make any alteration in it? A. Never; nor procure it to be done—I knew nothing about the will until I went to my father's funeral.
FRANCIS M'GOWRAN . I am the brother of the last witness, and one of the sons of the late Mr. M'Gowran—I was likewise taken into custody and charged with this forgery, and kept in Newgate forty-eight hours—I have not caused any alteration to be made in this will, nor do I know of any—by the first will we had more by 1, 500l. than we had by the second, therefore it is not very likely that we should have forged the second.
WILLIAM CLARKE MACKIE . I am an officer of this Court, and swear witnesses who are going before the Grand Jury—I put a mark on every bill-my initials are on this bill—Girdlestone and Swan were two of the witnesses, but I cannot exactly swear to Saunders—I believe all three of them to be the same.
Cross-examined. Q. You do not know whether all three, or only one went before the Grand Jury? A. No.
the sergeant on duty at the station, and I went with them—Girdlestone and Swan went into a public-house, about three doors off, and 1 went to Mr. M'Gowran's—I found him at home, and told him what I had come about—I went with Mr. M'Gowran, Girdlestone, and Swan, straight to the police-court, as the Magistrate was sitting then—Girdlestone and Swan said, "That is the villain; we will transport him "—I allowed him to walk by my side, as I had known him fifteen or sixteen years, and knew him to be a respectable man, and a man of property in the place.
Swan. Q. Who produced the warrant? A. Girdlestone; and he used that expression about the "villain"—you said it repeatedly afterwards on the way to the station.
Girdlestone's Defence. All the Grand Jury asked me was, if Mr. Barton was the gentleman that had to do with Bayly Haynes' will; I. said, "Yes," and they said, "Very well," and let me go; when I lived in this place it was called 1, 2, and 3, Hertford-place, Webber-row, Westminster-road; and it was so at the death of the testator, and when the will first went to Doctors'Commons.
Swan's Defence. Icopied the brief from the drafts of the declarations already drawn; the brief was not made by me, only copied, and I was paid for so doing; the brief was drawn up by a person named Hardman; (the perm referred to here stood up in Court, and denied it;)—I attended before the Grand Jury by virtue of a subpoena; they did not examine me at all; the? simply told me that they wanted Girdlestone; Girdlestone went in, and 1 came out; there was not one word said to me before the Grand Jury'; there was a lapse of six years between my seeing the will and making the declaration; I took no steps in the prosecution, I gave no instructions for the indictment, and procured no copy of the will.
The Court was of opinion that there was not sufficient evidence to call upon SAUNDERS for his defence; he was therefore
GIRDLESTONE— GUILTY . Aged 45.
SWAN- GUILTY . Aged 48.
Confined Two Years.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, July 4th, 1848.
PRESENT—Mr. RECORDER and Mr. Ald CHALLIS.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Second Jury.
GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Three Weeks .
NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY , and received a good character.— Confined Two Months.
(Mr. Parry fur the prisoner stated, that no imputation was intended to be cast on the prosecutor by the prisoner, and, after calling a witness to prove that he could neither read nor write, Mr. Ballantine withdrew from the prosecution.)
NOT GUILTY .
1645. THOMAS LEATHER , feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Bennett, at the precinct of Norwood, and stealing 1 coat, I waistcoat, and other articles, value 5l. 10s.; I sovereign; and 20 shillings; his property.
JOHN BENNETT . I am a labourer, living at Southall in the precinct of Norwood. On Sunday morning, 11th June, I left my cottage with my wife about half-past ten o'clock—I locked the house up and put the key into my pocket—I returned about two in the afternoon, found some panes broken in the window, which was unbolted—a person could put their hand in through the broken glass and unbolt it—some provisions had been brought from the pantry into the front room, and a portion had been eaten or taken away—one tea-caddy had been broken open and another had been unlocked by a false key—I missed two silver watches, two gold seals, two keys, and a ring; a seal with "W. H." on it, a brooch, an eye-glass, several teaspoons, some black clothes, a silk handkerchief, and shawl, one sovereign, and 1l. worth of silver—I gave information to the police.
THOMAS SAUNDERS . On Sunday morning, 11th June, I met the prisoner and two other men going along the canal, in the direction of Bennett's cottage, and about one o'clock I met him again alone, as though returning from that direction—I know him very well—I cannot say whether he had anything with him the second time.
Prisoner. Q. How far was I from Bennett's house when you met me first? A. More than a mile—the way you were going would take you to Brentford and Hounslow, and other places—you were more than a mile from Bennett's when I saw you the second time.
HENRY ROSEBLADE (policeman, T 99.) On 11th June I heard of the robbery, and went to Bennett's cottage, which adjoins the canal—I traced some footmarks from the canal side, five or six yards from the back door, to a field and to a hole in the edge—I went into the garden—I noticed top pane of glass broken and the bolt pulled down, and the bottom pane broken and the bolt slipped up—on going into the house I saw the things all turned upside down and scattered about—my brother constable apprehended the prisoner on the 14th—I took him to the place, and put his foot down close alongside the old footmark, and they corresponded—I noticed the impression of pretty well every nail in the shoe—it was hardly so plain when we came back again, because there had been a little rain, but the length of the foot exactly corresponded.
Prisoner. Q. Was there any rain between the 11th and 14th? A. There was some rain on the afternoon after the robbery—I did not cover over the footsteps, but one was close to the hedge and the rain did not wash that out much—these are the shoes (produced)—the impression seemed to be made by the left shoe—you tried to tread the footmark out while we were comparing it—there is a tip to the shoe—that corresponded—I received information of the robbery on the Sunday, and on the Wednesday I was told you were gone to London, and learned where you had purchased things, and when you came back I received information that you had passed through the village
in a new suit of clothes; we went after you, and took you in about half-an-hour, but you had changed your clothes by that time.
NORRIS LEE (policeman, T 94.) I saw the state of the house and the footmarks—I found the prisoner at half-past six o'clock on the evening of 14th June, at a beer-shop, at Hayes—I told him the charge, and asked what he had done with the new suit of clothes—he said he had none on—he afterwards said if he had it was no business of anybody.
Primer. Q. Did you trace my footmarks in the field? A. Yes, up to the towing-path—in one mark on the path I counted twelve nails on the outside and ten in the middle, and also the tip, and when I showed you the marks you said there were plenty like it—your shoes exactly corresponded with the marks—you tried to push them out several times—after you were committed you told me you had pledged one of the watches at James Gideon's, 19, Stafford-street, Lisson-grove—I went there and took it out of pawn.
ANN LEAR . I live at 25, Chapel-street, Edgware-road. On Monday, 12th June, the prisoner gave me this shawl and handkerchief to pledge—I took them two or three doors from where I live and pawned them in the name of Ann Smith—the prisoner went with me—I gave him the money and tickets.
Prisoner. Q. In whose possession did they come to Mrs. Robinson's louse, where you were? A. I do not know—I was not there at the time—I do not know the name of the man that went home with me that night—he is called Black George—you were all there at breakfast next morning—you and Black George went out together to fetch it—I knew Black George before—I cannot say whether he or you brought the things, but I had them from you—I pawned them in the name of Smith because that is my maiden name, and I always pledge in that name.
JOHN BENNETT re-examined. This is ray watch—it was taken from a pocket over the bed—I also lost another from a box that was broken open—that I have not recovered—the prisoner sent for me after bis hearing at Brentford, and told me he had sold it for a sovereign on Saturday week—I told him the other watch was in a little leather bag; and he said he knew that, and the leather bag was left up stairs on the drawers, which it was; and unless he had been in the house he could not have told that—I told him the other watch was going at the time—he said, "I know it was"—my house is in the precinct of Norwood, in the parish of Hayes—I pay no rates—I am a servant to the Grand Junction Canal Company, and they pay the rates.
HENRY ROSEBLADE re-examined. The prosecutor's house is in the precinct of Norwood, in the parish of Hayes—it has always been called so since I have known the place, which is four or five years—it is a small village, just out of the bounds of Hayes' parish—all our orders are made out, "In the precinct of Norwood, in the parish of Hayes"—(The Court was of opinion that the description of the locality was not sufficiently proved.)
Prisoner's Defence. I received the things from Black George; I told the
prosecutor where to find all that I had pledged; I did not mention anything of the kind to him that he states.
GUILTY of Larceny .**Aged 27.— Transported for Seven Years ,
MARY TITMUS . I am the wife of James Titmus, of Wick-lane, Hackney. Our house stands alone in a garden, with a wooden fence—we have a beer-shop in Wick-street. About eleven o'clock, last Thursday week, I left the house leaving the back-door open, and went to the beer-shop—(I had seen the prisoners there the evening before)—I heard something, went back, and found the back-door shut—a ladder was got, and some one got in through the window, and let me in—I missed the articles stated—two boxes were broken open, but nothing taken from them—the prisoners had no bundle at the beershop—I told them I sold cheese, but they only had a pennyworth of bread and a pint of porter.
JOHN ANDREWS . I am a gardener, at Wanstead. On 22nd June I was at work in a garden adjoining Mrs. Titmus's, and saw the prisoners loitering about the road for an hour and a half or two hours—I afterwards saw John West in Mrs. Titmus's garden—he handed a bundle over the fence to Eliza, who went on with it across the common—he kept on the road, to where there was a vacancy, to get into the road, and I saw no more of them—I got in at Mrs. Titmus's bed-room window, and let her in—I afterwards found the prisoners in Petticoat-lane, about three miles and a half off—they had no bundle—I told them they had been robbing Mrs. Titmus's house, and said, "Do you know me?"—John stood some time, all of a tremble—at the station I said, "Did not you see me as I was hoeing a bit of cabbage?"—he said, "Yes, I did"—I said, "Were not you sitting facing Mr. Titmus's house about twelve o'clock?"—he said, "Yes, I was."
John West. Q. Is there not a footway leading into the ground? A. Only for Mr. Titmus's people—there is a gate—I was 120 or 130 yards from you when you gave the bundle—I am satisfied it was you by your size, and I saw you the night before at the beer-shop.
ANN ISON . I live at Grove-street, Wick-lane, Hackney, about a quarter of a mile from Mrs. Titmus's, on the London road. On 22nd June, about a quarter-past twelve o'clock, I was going into my garden, in front of the house, and saw the prisoners walking side by side in a direction from Mr. Titmus's house—John had a large white bundle under his arm—I kept them in view as far as Victoria-park.
WILLIAM PARNELL (City-policeman, 653.) On 22nd June, between two and three o'clock, I was on duty at Harrow-alley, Petticoat-lane—the prisoners were given in my charge—Adams came to the station, and said, "Don't you remember seeing me at the beer-shop?"—John said, "Yes, and likewise in the morning"—I found on him 6s. 8 1/2 d.
John West's Defence. I had two shirts on; I took one off, and tied it up with my wife's chemise, a pair of stockings, and a handkerchief, and told her to pawn them; we sold them in Petticoat-lane for the money found on me; if 1 had sold this property 1 should have had 2l.
Eliza West. I am his wife; we have been married four years.
JOHN WEST— GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined One Year .
ELIZA WEST— NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Tuesday, July 4th, 1848.
PRESENT—Sir William Magnay, Bart, Ald.; Mr. Ald Gibbs; Mr. Ald Moon; Mr. Ald Lawrence; and Mr. Common Seejeant.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Sixth Jury.
1647. WILLIAM SHELLS , breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Mannering Needham, and stealing 275l. 10s., his money; having been before convicted: and SARAH POOLE , for receiving the same; to which SHELLS
GUILTY . Aged 50.— Transported for Ten Years.
MR. BODKIN offered no evidence against POOLE— NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY . Aged 38.— Confined One Year .
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Six Months.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Six Months .
GUILTY . Aged 14.— Confined Three Months, and Whipped .
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Three Months.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Six Months .
JOHNSON pleaded GUILTY . Aged 27.— Transported for Seven Years .
BROWN pleaded GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined One Year .
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Four Months .
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
High-street, Kensington, On 8th June, between ten and eleven o'clock, the prisoners came in—Atkins asked for a quartern of gin, which came to fourpence—he gave me a 5s. piece, I gave him 4s. 8d. change, and put it into the till—there was no other 5s. piece there—they drank the gin-Caroline Smith said to Atkins, "If we had gone by the rail, we should have been there by this time "—they went away—Turner, who was there, told me something—I looked in the till, and found the crown was bad—I gave it to Turner; he bit it, and went after the prisoners.
THOMAS TURNER . I live at Kensington. On 8th June I was at Mr. Cross's—after the prisoners were gone, I got a crown-piece from Mr. Cross—I bit it, and found it was bad—I took it over to a silversmith, and then followed the prisoners—they got into a cart, and I afterwards saw them come out of the Red Cow, at Hammersmith, with the man who drove the cart—I followed, and saw them come out of the Crown, in Gunnersbury-place—I saw Gibson, and gave him the crown—I was present when the prisoners and the driver were at the Salutation—I was on the run all the way.
Atkins. Q. Did I tell you where I was going? A. Yes, to Ascot—it was the Ascot day.
STEPHEN EELES . I keep the Red Cow, King-street, Hammersmith. On the morning of 8th June, the prisoners and another man came in a cart, and called for a quartern of gin—it came to fourpence—Atkins paid for it with a crown-piece—I rung it, and showed it to my son—he bit it—I did not like it, and Atkins said, "If you do not like it, here is a half-crown, take it out of that"—I did so—Caroline Smith said that they got change for a sovereign, at the turnpike-gate, and got the crown there—there is a turnpike between Kensington and my house.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. How many turnpike-gates are on that road? A. Two—I returned the crown to Atkins—there is only one gate between the Marquis of Granby and my house—you only pay at the Kensington-gate—that clears the Hammersmith-gate.
CHARLOTTE DREWETT . I am the wife of William Drewett—he keeps the Crown, in Gunnersbury-place, which is on the road from the Marquis of Granby to Ascot—on 8th June, a little after eleven o'clock, the prisoners and a man driving a cart came there—Atkins asked for a quartern of gin—I served him—he gave me a bad crown—I took the gin back, and told them the crown was bad—Atkins and Caroline Smith both said it was not—Atkins said they took it at the gate, in change for a sovereign—Caroline Smith gave me a fourpenny-piece—they all partook of the gin, and still said the crown was not bad—I said it was, and refused to return it—Atkins offered me 20s. to return it—John Smith said, if I insisted on keeping it, perhaps I would give them a card—I went up stairs, got one, and gave them, and they went away—I put the crown on the mantel-piece, in the parlour in their presence—I did not remove it till I gave it to Gibson, about an hour after—there was no other crown there.
WILLIAM GIBSON ( police-sergeant, T 27.) On 8th June I was in Brentford—Turner gave me this crown, and told me something—I got some other constables, and took the prisoners, and a fourth man with them, in the parlour of the Salutation—the fourth man was discharged—I found on Atkins 6s. 6d. in silver and 7d., and on John Smith 6s. and a penny, all good-we only detained Atkins—I was not aware of all the cases then—I went to Mrs. Drewett, and received from her this bad crown—I then went and found the other three at the Dog and Partridge, at Bedfont—I said I wanted them, as 1 had found another crown-piece against them—the two Smiths said they
were both strangers to Atkins, but they met the fourth man on the other side of Westminster-bridge, and were going to Ascot, and they asked him to give them a ride—Atkins was the worse for liquor.
REBECCA HEALE . I am assistant to Mr. Blackwell, of the Camden Arms, Kensington. On 8th June, the prisoners and another man came—Atkins asked for three-pennyworth of brandy, and some gin—he gave me a bad half-crown—I said it was bad—he said, "Give it me back, and I will give you a good one"—I did not give it him—I put it on a shelf, and gave it to Gibson—this is it.
Atkins's Defence. I was very much in liquor; I don't know how I got them.
ATKINS- GUILTY . Aged 28. JOHN SMITH— GUILTY . Aged 22.
CAROLINE SMITH— GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Nine Months.
ROBERT BAILLIE . I live in White Bear-yard, Eyre-street-hill—I sell things in the street, on a barrow—I occasionally employed the prisoner. On 23rd June, about two o'clock in the afternoon, I left my barrow at the corner of the court, where I live—there were forty-four pottles of strawberries on it—I left the prisoner in care of it, and promised to give him twopence—when I returned he was gone, and the strawberries also—I found him at half-past eleven at night, and asked* him for them—he said he had sold them, and spent the money—he used dreadful language, and said, "You can't do anything with me."
Prisoner. I sold the things; he said I was to have half the profit; I did not steal them.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined One Year .
BENJAMIN-BINGLEY. The prisoner was in my service. I did not authorize her to take any gin from that vat—she worked as charwoman for us for the last four or five years—I have missed gin, and I got the policeman to watch.
Prisoner. I was cleaning under the butt; I was obliged to stoop down, and I ran against the tap.
GUILTY. Aged 42.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor. — Confined Fourteen Days.
WILLIAM NAIRN . I am a sackmaker, in Tower Royal—the prisoner worked for me for nine years—I have lost a good many sacks—those produced are mine; they are quite new—this twine is also mine—the prisoner had no business with them—she gets work from my premises, and takes it home to work—these are not what she had to make up.
WILLIAM MITHVEN . I took a bundle of twenty sacks to Mr. Griffiths—I put them on the block in his house—the prisoner was there, and a man was standing with her—the man said, "That is some of your work."
JAMES HUBBER (City-policeman, 471) I went to the prisoner's house, and found these six sacks and six skeins of twine—she said it was work she received from the warehouse, and she was going to take it home, but was too late, and she was going to take them on Monday.
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Four Months.
ELIZABETH SLOCOCK . I am the wife of Edmund Slocock—tbe prisoner was my housemaid—she left on 15th May—I then missed these articlesthese are the two table-cloths; they are marked in my name—the mark of the shirt is cut out, but 1 can swear to it.
Prisoner. The shirt and handkerchiefs were in the kitchen drawer? Witness. No, they were not; I sent them to wash.
JOHN MURPHY (policeman, B 163.) The prisoner was at my mother's house—I went there, and found in a box this shirt and handkerchief—my mother went to the hospital, and the prisoner came there the same day—I believe that was after she left her place.
JAMES WEBSTER JONES (policeman, B 59.) I took the prisoner—she said she meant to return the things—I asked her what she cut the name out of the shirt for, she said because she heard the police were after her.
Prisoner. I took this shirt and handkerchiefs out of the drawer; I pawned the cloths, but I was out of a situation; it is my first offence, and it shall be my last.
GUILTY . Aged 38.— Confined Six Months.
MICHAEL HAYDON ( City policeman) On 24th June, about half-past four o'clock, I was on Holborn-bridge, and saw the two prisoners—there was a crowd of persons looking at a horse—I saw Nixon go and take this handkerchief from the prosecutor's pocket—Goodman was covering him—I laid hold of Nixon; he dropped the handkerchief; I put my foot on it—I took Goodman, and gave Nixon to the prosecutor.
Cross-examined by MR. PLUMPTRE. Q. Was there a large crowd? A. Thirty or forty persons—I saw Goodman close by Nixon all the time, and screening him while the handkerchief was taken—I have seen them together before—I know they were acquainted.
Nixon's Defence. I met this boy; I saw the horse lying down, and this handkerchief was lying down; I took it up, and Goodman said. "Don't take it, for fear you should be caught for thieving;" and I put it down again.
NIXON— GUILTY . Aged 14.— Confined Ten Days and Whipped.
GOODMAN— NOT GUILTY .
The prisoner being a foreigner, had the evidence interpreted to him.
WOODGEE (through an interprets). I slept with the prisoner—I do not know on what night it was—I had a boatswain's call and four chains to it round my neck—I lost that, and also three rings from my fingers, two gold and one silver—I awoke at three o'clock in the morning, and missed my property and the prisoner.
WILLIAM POUNCEBY . I am potboy at the Three Crowns, at Shadwell. I saw the prisoner there—he had a boatswain's call and four chains round his neck—I bought them of him for 28s.—I sold them again to a Jew—the prisoner had a silver ring on his finger.
Prisoner. I did not sell them to him; he gave me 28s.; I only gave him them to take care of; the prosecutor has not spoken the truth; I did not steal them; he gave me the things to take care of.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Six Months.
----FINNIS (City policeman, 643.) These are the two cans.
Prisoner's Defence. I did not steal them; I worked twenty-six years for Mr. Desanges, a silk-dyer; I never had a stain on my character; I have a family of eight children; I hope you will have mercy upon me.
GUILTY . Aged 46.— Confined One Year.
(There were three other indictments against the prisoner.)
MR. PARRY conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM SHIPPEY . I am a horse-dealer and horse-slaughterer. On 10th May I was in partnership with Thomas Fishpool, that partnership is now dissolved—I have an agreement to that effect, it is dated 15th June, 1848—I hired the prisoner on 11th May, to go and buy some horses—he was to tare 1l. a week, and he drew 6s. on account—he went down with me to Hertford—I was taken ill there, and obliged to stay at an inn—on 12th May 1 gave him 40l. in gold, in a bag—he went to Hertford fair to buy horses—he came to me at the inn in about an hour, and said he could not buy anything there, the best way would be for us to get to Smithfield—we came up to the Shareditch station—I went home, because I was ill—the prisoner had the
money, and I gave him a shilling to pay his cab-hire—I thought it was very strange he did not come home, and I went to the Brecknock Arms, at Camden Town, and saw him there at one o'clock in the morning—he said he had bought two horses for 9l., and two more of Mr. Urling for 25l., and he had left them with Mr. Urling, because he knew he would do well by them—he pointed out the two horses to me that he said he had bought at Smithfield—I did not stay above ten minutes with him—I then left him, and did not see him again for three weeks, when I saw him in Smithfield and gave him into custody—I got 5l. from him at the Brecknock Arms—I have received no other money from him, and no horses.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. What was he doing in Smith-field when you gave him into custody? A. Looking at some horses—he might know that I am in the habit of going to Smithfield; I think he did—I did not speak to the prisoner before I gave him into custody—I had made a complaint to two or three policemen to have him taken—I cannot tell the name or number of either of them—I cannot read—I cannot tell the numbers on doors—I did not go to any station or before any Magistrate—I am not in partnership with Fishpool now—I suppose it is three weeks ago since I gave up partnership with him—I saw him here half an hour ago—the 40l. belonged to me and my partner—10l. of it was mine, I borrowed it of my wife—the other 30l. was between my partner and me—I sold five horses for it, which were my partner's and mine—my money was laid out for them as well as his—I had 45l. and he had 26l. 10s.—I swear these horses were as much mine as they were Fishpool's.
Q. Did he not accuse you of stealing these very horses? A. I never knew or heard of it—I have known the prisoner a good bit—he did business for me two years ago—he bought and sold horses for me, but he had never been my servant till this last occasion—he robbed me of 30l. before—the Magistrate said I could only make a debt of it; if he were a servant I could prosecute him—that was the reason why I made him a servant this time, that I might prosecute him—he went down on his knees and clasped his hands, and looked in my face and implored me—he assured me he would not rob me of a farthing if I would employ him—I took him, and on the following day I trusted him with this 40l.—I had paid him 6s. in advance, and he was to have 1l. a week—there was no written agreement—I cannot write, and he cannot write—a person named Stonach was there, who saw the prisoner go down on his knees in my house, and he saw my wife take the 6s. out of the drawer, and give to the prisoner's wife—Stonach did not hear anything about the service—I did not take the prisoner for any particular time—I thought it was for a week—I have always gone for a week when I have hired myself as a servant—there was no one present when the prisoner said he had bought two horses for 9l., and two for 25l., except a little boy of fourteen or fifteen years old—he is not here—I have been a horse-dealer all my life.
MR. PARRY. Q. You say the partnership between you and Fishpool lasted till the 12th of May? A. Yes—Fishpool had about 26l.—it was a partnership for slaughtering horses—there was a regular written agreement drawn up between us—10l. of this money was my own, that I had borrowed of my wife, and 30l. was partnership money—those horses were not bought for slaughtering, they were sold—I and Fishpool have bought horses for slaughtering—we have bought as many as thirty-five in a week.
had no such horses—I sold him one in Smithfield that day, for 6l. 10s.—I had sold him horses before that, perhaps two or three years before—I had not sold him any on the day previous.
Cross-examined. Q. You knew the prisoner? A. Yes, he was my servant about thirteen years—he has been jobbing about since—he was well-behaved when he was with me till towards the latter end—I have dealt with him when I have had a horse to sell, but not lately.
MR. PARRY. Q. Did you know that he was tried before? A. Yes, at Chelmsford, and I got him off.
GUILTY . Aged 43.— Transported for Seven Years.
ALEXANDER FITZGERALD . I am an oil and colourman—the prisoner was in my service. On 18th June I missed a watch from the toilet-drawer—it had been locked, and I found it so—I called the prisoner, who was in the next room—she said she could not come, she was dressing—I said I would wait—in ten minutes or a quarter of an hour she came—I said she had taken my watch—she went on her knees, and said she had not—I said, "I have Lad enough of your hypocrisy; I shall not go out till I find it, nor shall you"—at half-past ten o'clock I was going to bed, and went to another drawer, which was not locked, and found my watch in a piece of wash-leather—next morning I called a policeman—the prisoner's box was searched, and the other articles stated found in it—she had no right to them—there was no one but her and me in the house.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I attend your sister on her dying bed? A. Yes—she had a nurse who did not do her duty—this desk is mine—I missed things directly you came to my house—I found other things with the marks picked out.
Prisoner's Defence. He tried my keys; they would not fit his drawers; I never saw his watch till the next morning; I did not know he had one; his sister gave me the desk, the card-racks, and the boa; the teapot-stand she threw away' in the dirt; I took it, and put it with my things; I put the books in my room; he said they were his; I said, "If they are, take them;" this napkin is a fellow one to what his sister gave me; she said, "I don't know how to treat you kind enough; you have been a good girl to me."
NOT GUILTY .
SAMUEL JAMES VAUGHAN . On 25th May I went to my house, in Gloucesterplace, Bethnal-green, I saw footsteps, and a light over the door—the door opened, and the prisoner came out—he had no business there—I asked how he came there—he said he found the door open, and went to shut it—I said that would not do for me, and took hold, of him—another man came out of the house, who struck me a violent blow on the head—I still held the prisoner—the
other man took a stone out of his pocket, and struck me again—I found these articles produced had been removed—I had locked the door when I went out—it appeared that they had entered by a key—we had been moving the day before—these were things we had left there.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I receive a blow? A. There was a mark on your head.
Prisoner's Defence. I stopped against this door; the prosecutor came and took hold of me; a man came and struck us both; the neighbours came and said I was not the man, that they saw two men come out, and run down the street; I deny all knowledge of these things.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Two Years.
HENRY NATHAN . I live in Stanhope-street, May-fair. On the night of 25th June I put the money stated into my breeches-pocket, under my head—I afterwards went down stairs, came back, and put my trowsers on a chair by the side of the bed, and went to bed again—the money was safe then, and when I awoke it was gone, and the prisoner too—she had only been one day in my service.
Prisoner. He gave me eight sovereigns; two of his gay ladies came into the kitchen. Witness. It was my daughter and my niece, who live there—I did not give her eight sovereigns.
Prisoner's Defence. I never spent any of the notes; I put them in my box; his purse was on the floor in his bedroom.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Transported for Seven Years.
Prisoner's Defence. A man sold it me.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined One Year.
ROBERT WOODCOCK . I am a tailor, of High-street, Kensington—the prisoner was my errand-boy. On 14th June I missed a silver fork, and told him to empty his pockets—I there found this pair of sugar-tongs (produced), broken into three pieces—he said he had found them in the outhouse—the fork has not been found.
MATILDA THIRMAN . I saw the sugar-tongs safe on the kitchen-dresser about one o'clock that day—I did not touch them afterward's—they had been there a month—they laid there to be repaired—there was no one in the house bat me and the housemaid—they could not get to the outhouse.
Prisoner. I was told to clean out the outhouse, and found them there.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years.
Prisoner. Q. Can you swear I was there? A. A man came to me in the skittle-ground—who it was I cannot tell.
JOHN SCOTNEY (police-sergeant, T 18.) I know a woman named Harris, and the prisoner—they had been at the public-house the day before, and both left it in a hurried manner, about three o'clock, the morning after the robbery.
RICHARD ROADKNIGHT (police-sergeant, T 11.) On 21st June I saw the prisoner offering this watch to pawn, at Uxbridge—he said he bought it of two men—I said, "Your woman stole it from a man at Hounslow"—he said, "She was with a man, and she gave me the watch"—he has lived with her three years—he told me if I went I should find her at Harrow—I went there, but they know me, and she was put out the back way.
Prisoner. I want to get rid of that woman—she gave me the watch to pawn—it had no glass or hands.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY. Aged 25.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury .— Confined Three Months.
GUILTY . Aged 13.— Transported for Seven Years .
WILLIAM LAWRENCE . I live at Great Stanmore—I employed the prisoner. On 22nd April I wrapped a sovereign in a piece of paper—my wife took it out of my hand, and gave it to the prisoner, to get eighteen gallons of beer, which came to 17s. 6d.—he was to bring me the beer, and half-a-crown change—he did not return—I did not see him for several weeks.
Prisoner's Defence. I lost the sovereign, and was afraid to go back.
GUILTY. Aged 34.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined Ten Days.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. Have you any partner? A. No—the last job the prisoner was engaged on was in cutting this waistcoating—there is no mark on it—I have no doubt of its being mine from its general appearance—I have discharged some men since the prisoner has been taken.
JOHN SPITTLE (City-policeman, 671.) I was in Bartlett's shop, and saw the prisoner go into the parlour—he sat down, and took something from under his coat—Bartlett was with him—when I went back, and returned with Davis, this cloth was on the chair.
Cross-examined. Q. Is the room dark at the back? A. Yes.
EDWARD BARTLETT . I was sent for, and came down—the officer and the prisoner were there, and this cloth—I had been up stairs all the morning—I did not leave such cloth as this on the chair when I went up.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor. — Confined Three Months.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, July 5th, 1848.
PRESENT—The LORD MAYOR; Lord Chief Justice WILDE; Mr. Baron PARKE; Mr. Justice MAULE; Sir PETER LAURIE, Knt., Ald.; Sir CHAPMAN MAR-HALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald JOHNSON; Sir GBORGB CARROLL, Knt., Ald.; Sir JAMES DUKE, Knt., Ald.; and EDWARD BULLOCK, Esq.
Before Edward Bullock, Esq., and the Third Jury.
1675. GEORGE LEE , feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Joseph Jupp, and stealing 1 coat and other articles, value 4l. 5s., his property; having been before convicted: also, unlawfully assaulting police-constables in the execution of their duty; to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years .
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
Before Lord Chief Justice Wilde.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL, with MESSRS. WELSBY, BODKIN, and CLERK, conducted the Prosecution.
(MR. SERJEANT ALLEN, with MR. HUDDLESTON (before the defendant had pleaded) applied to the Court to exercise its discretion, either in quashing the
indictment, or in calling upon the Attorney-General to elect upon which of the counts would proceed, those counts containing different offences, and subjecting the defendant to different punishments; see Young and others v. the King in Error, Third Term Reports; The Sing v. Towle, 2 Marshall, 466; The King v. Johnson, 3rd Maulc and Selwyn, 539; and the King v. Kingston, 8 East's Reports, p. 46. The Court did not consider this a case in which to exercise the discretion appealed to; the counts in all probability relating to one and the tame transaction, and not being calculated to embarrass the prisoner in, his defence.)
MR. RICHARD KEMMIS . I am the son of the Crown Solicitor in Ireland. I produce a copy of the record of the conviction of John Mitchell, for felony, the Commission Court at Dublin—I have examined it with the record—(this certified the conviction of John Mitchell for felony, on 20th May, 1848, under the Act for the better Protection of the Crown and Government, 11 Vict. c. 12—Judgment, Transported for Fourteen Years.)
FREDERICK TOWN FOWLER . I live at 4, Great Charlotte-street, Black friars-road—I am in the habit of reporting for the public press, and have been so employed for five or six years. In the course of my employment, I attended a meeting on Clerken well-green, on Monday, 29th May—I got there about half-past six o'clock in the evening—there was a van, on which a platform was placed for the speakers—I saw the defendant, Fussell, in the van—there were eighteen or twenty persons in it, and between 2000 and 3000 persons were assembled.
Q. What class of persons 'did they appear to be chiefly? A. There were Mine working men; the others I hardly know how to describe, the lower orders I suppose; they were very dirty and very ragged—I noticed a person named Williams there—he spoke first to the meeting—he was on the van—I took a note of what he said, such as I should take if I gave a newspaper report—I did not take it all, only a portion—this is the note I then made (produced)—it is not in short-hand, but in abbreviated long-hand—(reads) "My friends, tie bloody aristocracy have now done its work at last," or "at least," I am not positive which; "they have sent John Mitchell from his country. I trust while you remain here you will be peaceable, and obey my injunctions as to the course you shall adopt—all the arrangements have been made; and when you have been addressed by two or three speakers, I shall give you a signal, when you must fall into marching order, four abreast, and follow me where I shall lead you; you will know where when you are there. I shall take you then to a place where you will meet ten times as many as are here, and then you will be told what to do. I have made up my mind on a course of action. I fear banishment no more than that brave patriot and noble man, John Mitchell, who has been nailed by these base, bloody, and brutal Whigs, by partizan judges, packed juries, and a perjured sheriff"—that was all I took of Williams's speech—it was spoken loud, so as to be heard by the people assembled—a man named M'Carthy then addressed the meeting—J have a note of portions of his speech—he commenced something about the base, brutal, and bloody Whigs—I did not take that; but he continued, "If John Mitchell is allowed to leave his country, other brave men will fall victims to that bloody Gagging Bill. It is now your time, if you value liberty, to strike the blow. Ireland may, for aught I know, at the present time be in arms; but if she is not, she is only remaining quiet in order to recruit her strength the more effectually to strike the blow, and release herself from tyranny and oppression"—that is the whole of his speech—these two speeches were received by the mob with clapping of hands, and apparently with great satisfaction—Fussell
then proceeded to address the meeting—I did not take all he said, only such parts as struck me—(reads) "The Government have succeeded in convicting honest John Mitchell. How have they accomplished it? Why, by packed juries and partizan judges. I tell Lord John Russell that I have no sympathy with his damnable government. John Mitchell had asked if the Queen had not forgotten her duty to her country—I now ask the same question, and adopt his views. If the Queen forgets to recognize the people, then the people must forget to recognize the Queen. If John Mitchell is sent out of his country, every Irishman must rise and revenge the insult, or they will no longer be worthy the name"—the next part of his speech consisted of some abuse of the Times, and accused the Times of being in the pay of the Government, and keeping back the Irish news—I did not take a note of that, not thinking 1 should be required here, and a newspaper would not require that—he went on: "The Government is not worthy the support of any honest man; it is too contemptible to be recognized, and you must use your best endeavours to overthrow it. And now I wish to impress upon you that there is one safe way of getting rid of bad rulers, who forget their duty to their country: I openly avow that I mean private assassination. What made the Emperor of Austria fly from his country? Why, the fear of assassination; and it is by these means that other bad rulers will soon fly. I have five sons," (I am not positive whether it is five or four, I suppose I was knocked on the elbow at the time;) "and I now declare that I would disown any one who would refuse to assassinate any person who may be instrumental in banishing me from my country for such an offence as John Mitchell was convicted of"—that is all I took of Fussell's speech—Williams then said, 'How, my lads, fall into marching order, four abreast"—the people obeyed that order, and Williams placed himself at their head—as far as I recollect, the three speakers toot the lead—after forming in that way, they marched down Aylesbury-street, into St. John's-street—I left them there, went down Wilderness-row, and met them again in Goswell-street, at the corner of Old-street-road—they west down Old-street into the City-road, to Finsbury-square—they walked round Finsbury-square, I suppose half or three-quarters of an hour, apparently waiting for some other parties; in fact, it was stated that there was some meeting at Stepney, and they expected the parties from Stepney down there—I did not see them joined by any other body of men there—after they left Finsbury-square, they proceeded up Chiswell-street, Beech-street, Barbican, Long-lane to Smithfield—they then went down Snow-hill, along Holborn to the corner of New Oxford-street, till they came to the Land and Labour Bank, where there was a stoppage, and three cheers were given—they went along Broad-street, and turned off one of the streets near Monmouth-street, in the neighbourhood of Seven Dials, diagonally, towards Leicester-square, through Cranbourn-street, into Leicester-square, and up Princes-street—from there they turned off, I think, by Macclesfield-street, they took the street from the bottom of Dean-street, and went into Soho-square, where I left them—they stopped at the Chartist Assembly-rooms I think it is called, in Dean-street, and I believe they were addressed from the window—I cannot speak positively—I saw men at the window—I cannot say whether they were addressing them, but it appeared so.
Q. Of about how many persons did this procession consist? A. When it started, I should say about 3, 000, but it was almost impossible to say the number at the last, you could not see them—it was increased by large numbers at every street—the party said, "Fall in," and the people did fall in, as they
went along; in fact, there might be 50, 000 or 60, 000—I could not speak positively—Dean-street was completely filled from one end to the other, and they turned into Oxford-street—it was about a quarter to ten, or half-past nine, when I left them in Dean-street—they left Clerkenwell-green about quarter to eight,
Q. Did you notice during their progress what effect was produced upon the inhabitants residing in the line of inarch? A. A great deal of fear, and terror, and surprise, it appeared to me—a number of them shut up their shops and closed their doors.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT ALLEN. Q. Were you on the van? A. Yes—the speaking lasted altogether about twenty minutes, or half an hour at the outside—there were only three speakers—there was a good deal of noise among the people below the van—I was behind "Williams and Fussell—I sat on the side of the van—parties would be getting up behind I occasionally, and it might have been at that particular moment that my elbow was touched—I was liable to be interrupted, but that was the only instance of it—it is usual to take reports for the newspapers in abbreviated long hand—this is it (handing in his note-book.)
Q. Will you translate that for me, beginning there? (pointing out a passage in witness's vote-book.) A. "Williams. Now, my friends, fall into marching order, four abreast"—this is the way in which I do whatever I do for the newspapers, and thirty or forty first-rate reporters to the daily journals write the same system—that is the ordinary way of a reporter, not of every reporter—it is not the way in which a short-hand writer reports—there is a difference between a reporter and a short-hand writer—I have been employed for the Times, and all the papers—I reported this meeting for the Times—I was not employed to do it—I attend any meeting I like, and send my copy to the newspaper, and if they use it, they pay me for it—that is the case with the Times, or any other paper—I attended this meeting on speculation.
Q. Were you ever specifically employed by any paper, to take what passed at a meeting? A. Yes, frequently—I have been employed by them all—I have attended many meetings for the Times—I go and ask the question, whether I shall go to a particular meeting, and they say, "Yes," that is what I call employing me, and they use my copy in preference to anybody else's—no other person would stand a chance, if I got engaged first—I call that an engagement, going to the office, and asking the editor to attend a particular meeting—I have asked the editor; I have seen the editor of the Times—I am no acqaaintance of his—I have seen him—I never said that the editor of the Times tad engaged me personally—I never spoke to him personally about it—the system of the Times is, if you have any communication to make to the editor, you must send it, and you get your answer in the same way—I have cerkinly communicated personally with the editor of the Times.
Q. Have you ever been engaged to attend any specific meeting by the editor of the Times to report that meeting? A.. Well, I presume the answer coming through the printer in the office, who receives his orders from the editor, may be considered as an engagement from the editor—he did not come cut himself, but I have attended the meeting, sent in my copy, which has been used, and I was paid, so I suppose he engaged me—I did not tell you I had spoken to the editor of the Times—Ido not know that I have ever done so—I have seen him dozens of times—I believe he is Mr. John De Laine—I have taken orders as from him, in acting as a reporter—I have been a reporter six or seven years altogether, not constantly—I have been a newspaper proprietor in the meantime—the paper was called The Railway
Telegraph—I have not during that period attended the Police-offices in any capacity—I have been to a Police-office, not as a reporter—I think I was there once, perhaps twice—thirteen years ago I was there in the capacity of a defendant, for running away from my employer when I was an apprentice—I have also been there as a defendant, but it can have nothing to do with this case—it was on a charge by the Morning Chronicle, but it is calculated to do me a serious injury in my profession, these things coming out; but as you ask me the question, I must explain how I was there.
Q. Do you know the distinction between a person charged with a lesser offence, who is called a defendant, and a person charged as a prisoner with a crime? A. I know what you are aiming at—I was charged with felony—there is no reason for beating about the bush, if you will allow me to explain it—six or seven years ago, as I was going home one night with my brother and another person, I knocked a lighted cigar against the door of the Morn-ing Chroniclc-ofnce, the porter came out and asked, "Why are you knocking the ashes of your cigar into our letter-box?" I said, "I have done nothing of the kind," he said, "You have, and it has been done two or three nights—it is a good job that no policeman is here, or I would give you in charge—the parties with me fetched a policeman from the opposite sice, and said, "Here is a policeman, if you have any charge to make"—the porter immediately said to the policeman, "I give this person in charge for putting the end of his cigar into our letter-box"—the policeman said, "I know nothing of you; I must take the charge from your employer'-we went round to the Chronicle-office for the purpose of taking the charge, and my brother, who was with me, Wished to go into the office—the porter said he could not come in—the policeman said, "Yes, he must; he saw the charge, and he must be present;" but the porter insisted he should not, and he up with his fist and knocked my brother down, and the policeman took him in charge for the assault, having witnessed it—Dr. Black, who was then the editor of the Morning Chronicle, came down, and I was given in charge to the policeman on a charge of arson, taken to Bow-street, and locked up—the porter was given in charge for the assault, and he was bailed—the case came before Mr. Hall, at Bow-street next day, and I was dismissed; the Magistrate saying there was no ground at all forgiving me in charge, and the porter was fined 3l. for the assault on my brother—that was the charge of felony—I commenced an action against the proprietor; but the policeman who took the charge had left the force in the meantime, and I could not complete the evidence, and abandoned it; and not proceeding with the action I was let into the costs, and had to pay 48l.
Q. But there was a case with the Sun Fire-office, where there was really some burning, was there not? A. Yes; a house which I held in conjunction with my brother was burnt down—my brother was with me on the occasion at the Morning Chronicle-office, and saw the whole—I do not know that anything particularly happened to prevent my brother being a witness—the solicitor who had the business advised us that we could not safely go to trial without the policeman who took the charge—I do not think my brother was examined as a witness, but I forget now; it is seven or eight years ago—I claimed 410l. from the Sun Fire-office—I got none of it—I was insured for 500l.—the defendant recovered a verdict upon some points—there were six pleas on the record—they got a verdict upon three, and we upon the other three; but I know that our three precluded us from getting any money—I do not know whether one of the pleas was that I had set fire to my own house; I never looked at the pleas, but it is not very likely, or they would
not have offered to settle it before we went to trial—they offered to settle it, and to arbitrate—I was at the trial—I did not hear that I was charged with setting fire to my house—there were a great many things said by counsel, but I "never pay any attention to those things—I did not, after I had become an editor, find it necessary or desirable to leave London for some time—I have been out of London once or twice; I have been all over England, I cannot tell when, reporting—I never absconded, in consequence of having committed a fraud on the Messrs. Spicer, the paper-makers—I was never chared with having defrauded them; I am not aware that I am indebted to them—I have never been out of London as much as two months; never more than a week altogether—if any debt was contracted with the Messrs. Spicer it must have been while I was in business—I had nothing to do either with contracting the debts or the settlement of them; I merely had the manage-xent of the printing department—I was the editor of the Theatrical Chronicle, I was not the proprietor—I never ordered the paper from Messrs. Spicer; I never had anything to do with that portion of the business—I never bought 40l. or 45l. worth, and sold it in a day or two for 10l.; nor was I aware of it—I do not believe any such transaction took place—my brother was the proprietor—he is a reporter like myself—he reports for the Times also—I have been a bankrupt, and I obtained my certificate immediately; there was no opposition at any of the hearings—I do not know how much I paid in the pound—they consisted of railway claims; when collected I suppose they will pay—the assets I have handed over are 300l. more than the debts—by assets I do not mean money, but railway claims—I have never seen hand-tills posted up in the neighbourhood of the Kent Theatre, offering a reward for me; it is not very likely, or I should have gone for the reward, and claimed it—I took the Kent Theatre; that—was years before the Railway Telegraph—Iam paid for the reports I take at per line—I report for all the pipers, not for any particular one—I send copy on the chance of their inserting it, and if they insert it they pay me per line—I was never in the employ of the Black wall Railway Company, nor was my brother—I was never charged with robbing them or anybody—I have attended nearly all the Chartist meetings from the commencement on Kennington Common (Williams, by-the-by, was there,) up to the present time—I assisted in reporting the proceedings at Kennington Common—Mr. Potter and myself reported them for the Express—we had been previously engaged to do so by Mr. Duke, one of the editors or proprietors of the Daily News—we did not send copy to the Times on that occasion—we do not send to the papers when they send their own reporters—they do not generally send their own reporters to cut-door work—I have sent an account of other meetings to the Times over and over again—I reported the election of Dr. Hampden, at Hereford, for the Times—it was inserted, and I was paid seven or eight guineas for it—I was not paid by the line for that—I went upon speculation, and supplied all the papers with it, which I do not always do—we go by what we consider will pay us—Potter was with me at this meeting, on 29th May—he reported the meeting for the Morning Chronicle and Daily News—he reports for all the papers the same as myself—mine is a sort of general discursive engagement; it is a toss up whether we get our reports in or not, the same as it is with barristers, whether a solicitor gives them a brief or not—if we do not do our work well, we do not get work again.
Q. And if you do not send in a report with something in it, you are not 'My to have it inserted or to be paid? A. I see your drift—if there is nothing in it the editor does not put it in; but he docs not find fault with us
because there is nothing in it—if there is nothing in our report worthy of public attention the chances are that the editor would not put it in—if it was something very attractive, or novel, or extraordinary, most likely I should get it in.
MR. BODKIN. Q. What are the chances of your getting employed again if you send to a paper that which is not true? A. Why you may keep sending copy year after year, and never have a line in—they do not say, "You have sent us a thing that is not true," but it would deprive us entirely of our living; they would cut us off—whatever we get depends upon our sending the truth.
HENRY JAMES POTTER . I live at 4. Great Charlotte-street, Blackfriar's-road, and am a reporter. I report for all the daily papers—I report in shorthand—I attended the meeting at Clerkenwell on 29th May—I got there about seven o'clock—the meeting did not commence till ten minutes afterhere was a van in the centre, which served the purpose of a platform—I was on it—there were about 3, 000 people assembled round the van when the proceedings commenced—there might have been about thirty on the van, it was full—Williams, M'Carthy, and Fussell were there—I took a note in short-hand of pan of the proceedings—I did not take the whole—I took as much as served my purpose—Williams addressed the meeting first—these are my original notes, which I took in the van—I did not take all that Williams said—I took the salient points for newspaper reporting—he said, "Friends, the b—y aristocracy has done its work at last; although we have got a Government spy among us, we do not care; that man (I believe alluding to a policeman in the crowd, my impression is that he pointed to somebody in the crowd, but I do not exactly recollect,) has transported his own sons; but keep the peace, my friends; but if any man disturbs you, I hope you have sufficient energy to defend yourselves; now, keep the peace and 1 will take you to a place where you will meet five times the number of men that are collected here; I will take you to a certain place, and we will hold a meeting there; when I give you the signal, I want you to fall into marching order, four abreast, and to follow me where I will lead you; I will the: take you to a place where you will meet ten times as many persons as are here, and then you will be advised what to do; until then I ask you to be obedient to orders"—that is all I have on my notes, but I recollect that he advised them to be orderly and steady, and not to be riotous, but to conduct themselves peaceably, to follow him, and place implicit reliance on his directions—I do not recollect that he said anything about Mitchell—he did not say much more than I have got down—the speeches were all very short; and Williams requested them to be brief—M'Carthy spoke next; I beg your pardon, I have taken a large M. which I put down for Mitchell, as the beginning of M'Carthy's speech—Williams went on to say—" I do not fear punishment more than Mitchell; he does not care for his punishment; he feels proud of his punishment, although he is manacled, and although the Whig Government have determined to murder that honest patriot; the Gagging Bill was brought in for no other purpose than to murder him; honest John Mitchell has been murdered by these base, bloody, and brutal Whigs; through the instrumentality of packed juries and partizan Judges"—then came the direction of Williams, which I before alluded to, and subsequently M'Carthy's speech—he agreed with Williams in his condemnation of the Whigs:-"Would the people of Ireland allow John Mitchell to be sent away from his native shores; if they allowed John Mitchell to be taken away from his native land, many other brave men would fall victims to the diabolical Gagging
Bill; it is now the time for all who value liberty, to strike the blow, and Ireland will rise in arms; if that country has been quiet, it is only that it might recruit its strength to make a bold effort to release herself at the proper time"—that is all I have of M'Carthy's speech—Fussell followed; he said, "The Government has succeeded in obtaining the conviction of honest John Mitchell, by means of subservient Judges and packed juries; John Mitchell had asked whether the Queen had not forgotten her duty to her country; and I advocate the same sentiments that John Mitchell has uttered; Government, it has been said, has acted upon expediency; but that is a ridiculous sad false plea for so great a crime; I have been told that I must not use such language, because I shall bring the Government into contempt; but that is ridiculous, for the Government is so contemptible at present, that it would be impossible to bring it into greater contempt;—I should like to tell the meeting that there is one safe way of getting rid of rulers—those rulers who forget their duty to their country; and that is by private assassination; if my sons were not capable of assassinating any person who sent me out of the country, I should be ashamed of them; these are the means of chastising the most evil nations on the earth; the fear of private assassination made the Emperor of Austria run; and it is the fear of that might make rulers, in this country run also; if John Mitchell was sent to Spike Island, then it is quite evident that you may use spikes for the Government; I have five sons, and I would disown them if they were not ready to assassinate men who sent me out of the country for such a crime as that of which John Mitchell was said to be guilty"—that is all I have—I have another note here, of Williams's—he then said: "Now my friends, fall into marching order"—they obeyed his directions, and fell in four a breast, and marched through the streets—Williams was in the front rank, and M'Carthy and Fussell', I think, but I am not quite clear about those two—I went down Red Lion-street, I think it is, and met them again at the corner of Wildernessrow, and then at Finsbury-square—they then marched round the square two or three times—I should think there were 7, 000 or 8, 000 people then—I then followed them up Holborn, down what used to be Monmouth-street, and down a street into Leicester-square, up Princes-street, and into Dean-street, where the Chartist Hall is situate—they there shouted, as they had done on the road previously, and were received by a party, who appeared to address them from the window of the Hall but on account of the noise, I could not distinctly ascertain whether he was addressing them, or whether it was a mere dumb-show—I then left them.
Cross-examined. Q. Where do you say you live? A. 4, Great Charlotte-street, Blackfriars-road—that is the same house as the last witness lives in—we do not live together, but we have both been there six or seven months—my engagement is pretty much the same as his—I have not heard him examined—I send my report to any of the papers—I was not engaged by any paper to attend this meeting; I went voluntarily—I did not observe any other reporters at the meeting—I am not aware that there were any but myself and Fowler; but among so large a crowd there might have been without my seeing them—I did not observe any other person taking notes.
Q. What induced you to go there? A. The same reason that induced me to go to other meetings, to report them for the papers, on the chance of getting an account of it inserted, and to be paid for it by the line if inserted; that is the nature of my engagement with the papers I send copy to—I had agreed with Fouler in the morning, when we saw the announcement, to be there for this purpose—Fowler might have done it by himself, and so might I, and so
might you conduct this case yourself; but you have some one to assist youI send my copy to all the papers—the speeches lasted thirty or forty minutes—I write short-hand—this report is in short-hand—I could have reported for forty minutes without assistance—I do not usually require assistance when reporting for forty minutes—I could have done it alone, hut we heard of the announcement at the same time, and as it was likely to be a matter of profit one could not justly take the whole of it, so we agreed to divide it, and take the meeting between us; we were, in fact, partners, and shared the proceed:—we go shares in many things; it is convenient.
Q. Is it true that if you send a false report to a newspaper you are never again employed? A. I am not in the habit of sending false reports—I should imagine that if I sent a report to the newspapers which turned out to be false the proper course for the editor to adopt would be not to employ me again; that is the course; I do not, therefore, find it necessary to fortify myself in making a report, by having a partner—I retired with Fowls from the meeting—we did not compare our notes; I did not read over to him what I should send to the Times, nor did he to me—I will tell you the manner in which it was done, and that will get rid of that difficulty—I wrote out me portion of the meeting while he wrote the other, so that we had no occasion to compare notes—I do not recollect what portion of the meeting Fowler wrote—sometimes one writes the beginning, and the other the speeches—I recollect writing some of the description of the procession, but whether I wrote it all 1 do not know—the procession was quiet enough—I have an in-pression that I wrote Fussell's speech, but I am not positively certain-there was a great noise at intervals—while Fussell was speaking I was in the van, immediately behind him—he spoke for about ten minutes, as near as I can recollect—they all took about the same time—there was a noise, unless there was anything sprightly said—there was nothing very sprightly said, to my mind, but that is a matter of taste; but I mean any point—when I say I only took the salient points, I mean the points that I thought most likely to be of use in a newspaper report.
Q. May I take the liberty of supposing that that means, likely to induce the editor to insert it? A. Well, you may suppose that—of course if it was all nonsense they would not put it in—I think the newspaper did put all in that I sent—Fowler and I did not compare our copy before we sent it—we could not compare it, because they were different parts—I wrote a portion and he wrote a portion—there could be no comparison; one was grafted on the other—Fowler wrote that which was appended to my portion of the report for my papers, and I wrote whatever my portion was for the papers to which he sent—I reported on that occasion for the Morning Chronicle—the last part of that report would be Fowler's composition.
HORACE HARDY (police-sergeant, G 15.) On Monday evening 29th May, about seven o'clock, I was at Clerkenwell-green—there was a meeting there—I was there before it commenced—there was a van there; Williams was the first person who spoke from it—I should say there were about twelve hundred people round the van when the meeting first began—I made some notes of what Williams said—I have a copy of them here—the first words he said were, "The b----y aristocracy has now done its work, "or," now had their wish;" I am not quite sure which it was—I left the meeting for a short time, and when I returned Fussell was speaking—I was not near enough to hear distinctly what he said—I did not report any of it—the meeting was cheering very much—Williams came to the front of the van, and put his hand against Fussell's leg while he was speaking—I do not think Fussell intended
to have left oil so soon, and Williams said, "Now, friends, fall in four deep," and the mob formed into the procession four deep, as he desired, and marched off the Green—I did not see who walked in front of the procession until I got to Compton-street, Clerkenwell, a short distance from the place, and I then saw that Williams was in front of the procession—I saw Williams leave the front of the procession in Compton-street, and come down the sides—he spoke to the people who were walking on the pavement, and said, "Now, friends, if you are friends to the cause, you will fall into the procession, and not walk on the pavement"—I do not know whether any one fell into the procession then—the procession was marching along at the time—they proceeded along Goswell-street, Old-street, and City-road down to Finsbury-square—they cheered several times as they went along—they marched round Finsbury-square two or three times, waiting," I believe, for another party to come up—I did not see whether any other party joined them—I know a person of the name of Vernon—I did not see him at the meeting before it started—the first I saw of him was at Finsbury-sqaare; he was then marching with the procession—I cannot call to mind in what part of the procession he was—after leaving Finsbury-square, they proceded along Chiswell-street, Beech-street, Barbican, Long-lane, through Smith-field, up Holborn, and turned down, I think, Great St. Andrew's-street, and got into Leicester-square—they then went along the end of Piccadilly, up Princes-street, Compton-street, and up Dean-street, to No, 83, where there are rooms occupied by the Irish Confederates—a great number of persons came to the windows and the door—the mob did not positively halt, but they moved much slower, and there was a great deal of cheering from the mob and from tie house, and several persons from the house came out and joined the procession—after leaving Dean-street they went into Oxford-street and down. Regent-street, through the Quadrant, through Whitcomb-street and Pall-mall Rast, through Trafalgar-square into the Strand—in the Strand I heard some persons in the procession singing to the tune of the "Marseillaise Hymn" and also to the tune of "Rule Britannia"—I do not know the words, but I had heard them sing the same, at some of their previous meetings, to some words about the Charter—the words they sang to the "Marseillaise Hymn" appeared to be an English version of that which I have-read—from the Strand they went to fleet-street—they halted at the Dispatch newspaper-office, and hooted and groaned a very great deal, and some persons who stood near me said, "Let us smash the place in"—that was not general, but the hooting and groaning was general—they then passed towards Farringdon-street—they there hesitated, and many of them said, "Let us go to the Times-office"—they did not go, but proceeded up Farringdon-street, and up Skinner-street and Giltspur-street, into Smithfield—Williams was then at the head of the procession—he said to the leading section of the procession, "We will halt here in Smithfield, and I will get up a lamp-post and address them"—he or some one got up a lamp-post—I do not know who it was—I moved away out of the crowd—the City police then interfered, and they moved along Long-lane, and to Red cross-street—they halted at a coffee-shop there—Williams, who was at the head of the procession, said, "Now do not any of you come inside, don't come inside the walls of the house"—(MR. SERJEANT ALLEN objected to further evidence being given of the acts of the procession, Fussell not being proved to be present. The COURT was of opinion that it was evidence to show the prosecution of the object which had been assented to by all)—Williams said he would address them from the window of the coffee-suop—he did so—I did not see whether Fussell was there at that time—I have got a copy of my notes—Williams said, "We have had a meeting now in spite of finality Jack; he would not
let us have a meeting on the 10th April; we have had one now without his leave"—he said they would continue to-meet night after night until such time as they had news from Ireland, which the damnable press would not give them—" I mean," he said, "when our Irish brethren will want us to assist them in obtaining their liberties"—Vernon afterwards addressed them from the window, and M'Carthy after him—M'Carthy said, "Not to-night, but tomorrow night"—that was in answer to some people in the crowd, who said "Come down to-night, come down among us to-night, and lead us, and we will do it to-night!"—I cannot say what that referred to; it was while Vernon was speaking—M'Carthy said, "No, not to-night, but tomorrow night, and bring your guns and pistols with you"—the City police then interfered, and dispersed the assembly—I was in plain clothes.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you in the crowd at the first part of the meeting? A. Yes, about twelve yards from the van, in front of the speakers—there was cheering very frequently—I was present when Fussell spoke a little, but in consequence of the noise I was not able to take much notice of him—I was there during the latter part of his speech—I was farther away from the van then, because I had left the meeting—it was very noisy—I could hear that Fussell was speaking—I did not see Fussell after the procession started—I heard Williams enjoin them to keep the peace and be orderly, perhaps more than once, I will not be quite sure—he said after it started, that if they were friends to the cause they would fall in, and not walk on the pavement—there were a great many private persons, not belonging to the procession, on the pavement—walking on the pavement would have obstructed the way—that might possibly have been bis reason for saying that—I thought at the time it was for the purpose of increasing the processionit might have been either way—I do not know what the words were that they sang, but they were about the Charter—the tune was "Rule Britannia"—I know that tune, and the air of the "Marseillaise Hymn"—I have heard it frequently played by musicians, and I have played it on the flute—I heard a word or two, but I cannot positively remember now what they were—I have heard the English version of the hymn, and I believe it was that—I waited till the meeting dispersed—that was about half-past eleven o'clock—they dispersed in disorder—the police removed them violently rather—I mean the mob dispersed violently—they ran away—I should say there were at least 3000 persons present before the coffee-shop at that time—that was the greatest number there had been in the procession—there was at no time as many as 15, 000 or 16, 000; if I was to include the persons on the pavement, there might have been, but not in the actual procession—it was impossible to estimate the numbers on the pavement—as far as they went all along the streets the pavement was generally crowded with persons looking on-persons kept coming up the by-streets into the thoroughfare where the procession passed along—they were people there who merely came out of curiosity, attracted by the procession, but not in it.
Q. They were not running away in terror and alarm, but coming up to observe it? A. Yes—there were not 15, 000 or 16, 000 persons in the procession—I counted them once, and estimated the number in the procession it about 3, 000—that was in Oxford-street, while they were coming out of Dean-street—what Williams said at the coffee-shop was a few minutes before they dispersed—they did not disperse of themselves, they were dispersed by the police—I was in the crowd, in plain clothes—I do not know how many policemen there were—the police ordered them to remove, and they began to run, and I ran with the rest: in fact, I was obliged to run; we all went together—I suppose that was upon the order to disperse, I do not know—the
police were dispersing them—I could see the police standing across the road, and charging the people forward, and then the mob ran, and I ran too in the midst of them—I heard several of them say, "Don't ran like this; let us stay;" but I did not see anybody stay—I did not hear the order to disperse.
RICHARD COOK . I am foreman to Mr. Nott, a gun-maker, in Regent-circas. I was not there when the procession came past on the night of 29th May—it happened after I left business—I did not see the procession.
JAMES COLLINS (City-policeman, 150.) My division of police was called out on the night of 29th May—we went to Redcross-street, where Cart-wizht's coffee-shop is—there were, I should say, between 3000 and 4000 persons there, 3000 at least—the great majority of them consisted of Irish, and boys, and women—some persons were addressing them from the window—there was very loud cheering in the crowd—I was not near enough to hear what was said—we had orders to disperse the mob—we first tried to do so quietly without drawing our truncheons—we were not able to disperse them—they would not take any notice of what we said—we then proceeded to disperse them with our truncheons drawn, and drove them into the lanes and small streets in the neighbourhood—the great majority of them collected again in Golden-lane—that was between ten and twelve o'clock—we followed, and endeavoured to disperse them, and 1 received a brickbat in my face—I did not myself see any other missiles-thrown, but four of us I think were wounded—a body of the Metropolitan police came to our assistance—I was called away between twelve and one o'clock—I left a body of police there then—the mob was then very nearly dispersed, but they were hanging about—hot water was thrown at my brother officers from the windows and from the courts in. Golden-lane—I did not see the hot water, but my brother officers felt it on their faces.
Cress-examined. Q. What are their names? A. I am not acquainted with their names—Tyler was one who was wounded—he is not here that I know of.
JAMES TERRY . I am a glass-dealer, at St. John-street, Clerkenwell. I remember the meeting on 29th May—they began to assemble about half-past six or seven o'clock—my shop is about four doors from Aylesbury-street, which goes to the Green—I could see the persons as they passed and repassed to the meeting—I was not alarmed at this meeting, my family were, merely from the excitement of a large body passing similar to what might be expected from the passing of a procession of any other kind—I shut my shop up, and many of my neighbours also—my wife and daughters were a little excited by the number of people—there were 600 or 700—I saw the procession turn out of Aylesbury-street—there might then have been 600,—I was not present at the meeting myself.
JOSHUA BUZZARD . I am a hatter, of 1, Aylesbury-street, Clerkenwell. On the evening in question I shut up my shop at five o'clock—I was alarmed in this way, I supposed my windows would be broken, or property destroyed—I did not suppose personal injury—there was a noise—we had the police every night, and were obliged to shut up every evening while it lasted—we bad the horse troops one night, and of course we were alarmed.
Cross-examined. Q. You had no personal apprehension? A. No—the people were of the worst class you can see in London—I mean persons of tad character—I do not say they were all the worst, but the assemblages had done us a deal of mischief—they were sober as far as my knowledge went, but we had the processions every day in the week.
COURT. Q. Will you state what the general conduct of the people there was? A. There was on assemblage, one man stood up to speak—he had 2000 or 3000 to talk to—there were about 100 round him who could hear—I did not know any of the speakers so as to be able to name them—they were the worst description we ever had—I have no particular recollection of what occurred on the 29th—I cannot distinguish that night from any other—the procession caused the shops to shut at four or five o'clock—ten is the usual hour—the meeting began at seven or eight, but there bad been an assemblage before that night—the shutting up was general, and many of our customers have had the opinion that Clerkenwell is a very bad neighbourhood—it was fear and alarm that caused me to close so soon.
(MR. SERJEANT ALLEN called the attention of the COURT to some variances between the speech of the Defendant, as given in evidence, and as set out in the indictment; the COURT was of opinion that these variances were immaterial, but did not consider there was evidence to go to the Jury upon the charge of riot.)
MR. SERJEANT ALLEN called the following witnesses:
STEPHEN FLEXHAM . I am a journeyman carpenter. I was at the meet-ing of 29th May, and was near enough to hear the speeches—I heard Fussell address the people assembled—I heard the whole of his speech—I heard bin say the Emperor of Austria had been compelled to fly, for fear of private assassination—that was the only time he used the word "assassinate"—he did not say there was one safe way of getting rid of rulers, who forgot their duty to their country, by means of private assassinationthere was nothing of the kind mentioned—he said, supposing he was placed in the same position as Mitchell was, he had five sons, and if they did not avenge his wrongs he would disown them—that was the most important part of his speech—he only used the word "private assassination" once, because if he had, it would have dwelt on my mind; because, whether he was a friend or an enemy, I never would have recognised him—I would have disowned him, if such an expression had struck my mind—I had no knowledge of him previous to the meeting—next day my attention was called to the report of what was attributed to him—it was not a correct report.
Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. How came you to go to the meeting? A. There had been a placard calling a meeting, at all hazards—I went, to hear the speeches—I did not know who was going to attend—I am a Chartist, a member of the South Hall district, and live at 26, Union-court, Charles-street, Hatton-garden—the South Hall is over Blackfriars-bridge—I pay a subscription—I do not know what district Fussell belongs to—I have no knowledge of him—I have seen him about three times—London, and the neighbourhood, is divided into districts of Chartist societies—when meetings are to be held, we communicate with each other by placards—notice of meeting comes from the secretary, I believe, and it is announced at the different localities—the placards are hand-bills—some-times they are published openly in the streets, and sometimes handed about in the different localities—each district has a delegate to communicate with the others—the placard that brought me to this meeting, was published in the street about two days before—I had not seen it at our meeting—as far as 1 can judge, the districts are divided into sections, I do not belong to any of them myself—I was about six feel from the van—there was no crowd—two or three boys were standing before me—I cannot exactly say how many were there—I 'suppose 3000 or 4000—I do not know what space that
number would fill—it is a rough calculation—there was not much noise, there was a little applause—when Fussell said the Emperor of Austria had been compelled to fly, for fear of private assassination, he was referring to a paragraph he read in the paper—he had no paper there—he was speaking of the Government immediately before that—he said they wanted to change the system of Government, that they were over-taxed, that was all—that the people were over burdened with taxes—I heard a good deal more than that, but I cannot recollect the whole of it—I merely speak respecting the private assassination—that word was only applied once—I think there was something said about the Queen—I cannot tell what, it is so long ago—I did not bear it in mind—I believe he was in favour of royalty—I believe he spoke so in his speech—I know some allusion was made to the Queen, but what the precise words were I cannot tell—I think it was in favour—I heard him speak of John Mitchell, that he had been a persecuted man, and he spoke respecting his (Fussell's) five sons—I do not know whether he has five sons—I did not hear anything said about the duty of Irishmen to rise and revenge insults—I do not recollect those words, or anything of the sort—I do not think any man, who would recommend private assassination, would be a fit man for any society, therefore I would not countenance any man that said ft—if Fussell had made use of such an expression, I should not have forgotten it—what he said about his five sous did not directly follow the use of the words "private assassination," as applied to the Emperor of Austria—I do not recollect what he said before—I went with the meeting afterwards as far as Snow-hill, at least I saw them at Snow-hill—I did not go from Clerken-wcli-green with them—I did not see Fussell go with them—I do not recollect hin—I never saw him but that once, when he was making his speech—my employ is in Snow-hill, and I went to my employ, and was speaking to Mr. Driver, at the oil-shop, at the time I saw the procession—I did not join them—I went to Snow-hill, because it is my regular rule after I have done my employ, to go to my shop most evenings, unless I work till late in the evening, which I did not that day—I left work about a quarter-past six—my work is in Theobald's-road—I had to go to the shop to book my time—I went home to have my tea first—it was about eight, or a little after, that I got to Snow-hill—I do not know how many persons there were in the procession, but a great many—not 120, 000 I should say—they took a long while to pass—three-quarters of an hour I should say—I do not know whether they were four or five abreast—I saw no one leading them, no one at the head—I did not see the leaders—I did not see Vernon—I know him, and have seen Williams—I did not see them in the procession—I heard Williams speak at the meeting—I think I heard him talk of the b—aristocracy—I did not disown him for that expression—I did not hear him tell the meeting, that he hoped they bad energy enough to defend themselves if there was any obstruction—nothing of the kind—he told them to fall in on a signal—I do know whether that had been arranged beforehand—I never knew anything of the meeting—although 1 belong to a district, I am not always there—I heard M'Carthy speak—I do not recollect his saying, that now was the time for every one who valued liberty to strike the blow—I am not sure he did not say it—I was as near to him as I was to Fussell, but I have not borne these things in. mind.
Q. When were you examined by the attorney in this case on behalf of Fussell? A. I was not examined two minutes; I was only asked two questions on Friday—I think it was whether I heard the word "assas-sination "
made use of—I said I did hear it, but only once—some gent in Lincoln's-inn-fields examined me—he merely asked me that, and about the children.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Although you were asked these questions on Friday last, was your attention called next day, by the report in the papers, to its being said that Fussell had said something about assassination A. Yes, next day after the meeting—I then recollected that those words were not used—I belonged to a Reform Association twenty-seven years ago—I did not belong to the Anti-corn Law League—I have been eight years in the employment of the gentleman I now work for; six years the last time—I am still in his employment.
MICHAEL WEEDEN . I am an optical-instrument maker, and live at 59, Hatton-garden. I was present at the meeting on 29th May—I heard Fusell's speech—I was about six or seven yards off the van he was in—I did not hear the first two or three sentences—the first I heard was about John Mitchell, and I heard all the rest from there—what he said about his sons was, "I have five children, and I would disown ere a one of them that would not avenge "or" revenge me, if the government was to serve me as they did John Mitchell"—there was nothing said about assassination—the expression was not made use of then—in the early part of his speech he was speaking about how strong a government might be, and yet what a little thing might upset it; and he said, speaking of being surrounded with military and police, and all that, the mere threat of assassination, drove the emperor of Austria from Milan or Vienna, or wherever it was—I did not bear him make use of the word "assassination" at any other part of his speech.
Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Did not he say, "What made the emperor of Austria fly from his country?—why the fear of assasination?" A. He said, it was the threat of assassination that made him fly, not the fear—he did not say, "By these means other rulers will soon fly," nor nothing like it—he said, however strong Government might be, the threat of assassination had frightened that man away from his country; so he showed how weak it was unless it was founded upon the affections of the people—that was the context of what he said; that was the concluding part of it—I am quite positive he did not use the words "private assassina-tion"—I-got as near to the van as I could; I should say I was sis or seven yards off—there was a crowd—I did not hear much cheering—I never heard a more quiet affair—I do not know that it was the quietest meeting I was ever at, but it was very quiet—there was not that cheering that I have heard at public meetings, for at Clerkenwell we have had a good many, and 1 bate heard a good deal—I did not go round with the procession, I was going to get change, and I got it, and stopped at a house in the neighbourhood, and then went, home—I am a Chartist; I believe 1 belong to the Finsbury district—I cannot say how ninny districts there are in London—I cannot say how many our district consists of—I do not attend very often; in fact I have not been since 1 took out my card, and that is a long while ago—I am a member; holding a card makes you a member—I have not got my card here—I did not hear Williams' speech or M'Carthy's, only Fusscll's, because I went away—a great bustle took place—some persons came along the pavement—I was on the lower part of the ground, near the lamp-post—they pushed me farther away, and finding I could not hear any more I walked away—I have known Fussell about three or four years—I heard him say he had five sons—I do not know it as a fact, but I take his word that he has—I believe what he said was true.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Did you tell me in whose employment you were.? A. I am a master for myself.
GEORGE MACEY . I am a working-bookbinder, and live in Thanet-place, Temple-bar. I did work for Messrs. Bone and Son, of Fleet-street; at present I am out of work—I was at the meeting of 29th May—I heard Fus-sjll's speech—I was about ten yards from the front of the van—I heard the whole of his speech—I heard that portion which referred to his sons—after alluding to the flight of the emperor of Austria, he said that he should be ashamed of his sons if they did not seek retribution; rather I should say he alluded to Mitchell, after the emperor of Austria, and to the wrongs he conceived had been done to him; and he should be ashamed if they did not seek retribution if he had been served as Mitchell had, or words to that effect—I do not know the exact terms—he spoke generally of the wrongs of Ireland, and also of the oppression practised on this country by the Government generally—I only heard the word "assassination" made use of in one instance, and that was relative to the flight of the emperor of Austria—he said, "Did he fly from Vienna from the fear of assassination?"—that was the only instance in which he used the terra "assassination," to the best of my knowledge.
Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Is that all he said on that subject? A. Yes—he did not talk of private assassination—I swear I did not hear those words, and situated as I was I think I must have heard them bad they been used—I was not more than ten yards off—on my oath the word "private" was not used in my hearing—I feel confident it was not used—if it was used I must have heard it; I was there the whole time:—I heard Williams, M'Carthy, and Fussell—the body left the Green while Fus-sdl was speaking—I heard Williams say, "Fall in when I give the signal," and Fussell was speaking at the time—I did not observe Williams put his hand on Fussell's leg and stop him—Fussell did pause in bis address—he had not brought it to a conclusion, and then Williams said, "Fall in" to the meeting.
Q. How came you to go to the meeting? A.. I heard there was to be a meeting—I think I heard it somewhere in the City—some one said there was to be a meeting on Clerkenwell-green, and being out of employment I merely went to see whether it was so—I am not a member of the Chartist body, but having nothing better to do I went—I did not" pay much attention to Williams's speech, besides he was so indifferent a speaker that his voice scarcely readied any one—M'Carthy spoke somewhat strongly of the grievances of Ireland, and particularly the case of Mitchell; but I did not take any particular notice of the expressions he used, not knowing cither of them—I did not hear him say that if the people allowed John Mitchell to be taken away from his native land other brave men would fall victims to the damnable Gagging Bill, and now was the time to strike if they valued their liberty—he certainly spoke strongly, but I cannot answer'for the words; I took very little notice of what he said—I have heard Fussell speak before—I have known him seven or eight years—I did not know him at Birmingham—I suppose he has got five sons, but I am not aware that he has—I think M'Carthy used fords to the effect that if Ireland had been quiet it was only to recruit its. strength and make a bold effort at the proper time—I first gave my evidence to the solicitor on Friday morning, I think—Mr. M'Namara's clerk examined me, I understand—he asked me similar questions to what you have done, whether I was there, and so on—Flexham and Weed on were in an ante-room
at the office at the time—I think there were five or six of us there altogether.—I dare say there might have been eighteen or twenty persons in the van at the meeting—I think I only recognized one or two of them; a Mr. Fuzzon was one—I saw Fussell, of course, and I understand the chairman's name was Williams—I was not acquainted with him; he was the man that spoke—I do not think Vernon spoke on that evening—I did not recognize him be might have been there—I am told he was there—I cannot say precisely who the persons were that were, there—I cannot say, of my own knowledge that they were the Chartist leaders; I suppose they were.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Was your attention called to a report of the pro ceedings in a newspaper immediately after the meeting? A. Yes.
EDWARD STOKES . I live at I, Spencer-street, Clerkenwell, and am a jeweller, Fussell has worked for me six or seven years—his general character during that time has been excellent—I always thought him a peaceable, quiet person and a most unassuming inoffensive man.
Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Did not you know that he was indicted for the Chartist riots, at Warwick, in 1839? A. No, not till lately—he was in full employment till lately, earning from 2l. to 2l. 10s. a week—he has lately earned perhaps 30s. a-week.
MR. HUDDLESTON. Q. Did you hear that he was acquitted at Warwick? A. I did, and made inquiries.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Do not you know that he was acquitted because the Crown did not offer evidence against a number of persons? A. I know nothing of it.
The following passages, from the copy of the record of John Mitchell's conviction, were read to the Jury by the Lord Chief Justice:—" Can I repudiate the last speech of Mr. O'Brien, in the British Parliament, one of the nobles:, clearest statements of Ireland's case? the very haughtiest, grandest defiance flung in the face of Ireland's enemies that ever yet fell from the lips of man? or can I condemn the alternative put by Mr. Meagher, who says, When the last constitutional appeal shall be made, and shall fail, then up with the barricades and invoke the God of battles V Can I repudiate this, who hold that constitutional appeals are long since closed against us, and that we have even now no resource, except when we have the means and the pluck to do it, the barricades and the God of battles? No! all the seditions and treasons of these gentlemen I adopt and accept; and I ask for more. Whatever has been done or said by the most disaffected persons in all Ireland, against the existence of the party which calls itself the Government, nothing can go too far for me; whatever public treasons there are in this land, I have stomach for them all May I presume to address the women of limerick—It is the first time I have ever been in the presence of the daughters of those heroines who held the breach against King William; and they will understand me when I say that no Irishwoman ought so much as to speak to a man who has not provided himself with arms. No lady is too delicate for the culinary operation of casting bullets; no hand is too white to make up cartridges; and I hope, if it be needful to come to the last resort, that the citizens of Limerick, male and female, will not disgrace their paternal and maternal ancestors."
GUILTY on the Counts for Sedition, and attending an Unlawful Assembly —Aged 32.— Confined Two Years and Three Months , and to enter into his own recognizance in 100l., and find Two Sureties of 50l. each, to keep the peace for Five Years.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, July 5, 1848.
PRESENT—Sir GEO. CARROLL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald.CHALLIS; Mr. Ald SALOMONS; and Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Before Mr. Common Serjeant and the Fifth Jury.
JOHNS WHITEHEAD . I live in Dock-street, Whitechapel—it is my dwelling-house. Mortimer is my grandson—he came to me about 9th June—next morning I found my chest broken open, and all the articles gone—the things are here—they are mine.
HANNAH WHITEHEAD . I am the wife of John Whitehead. I saw Chap-nan sitting on the fence—Mortimer sent me for a pot of beer—I went, and left him alone in my room—when I came back Chapman was still sitting on the fence—Mortimer drank the beer—I asked him about Chapman, who was outside, looking in at the window—he said he knew nothing of him—next morning these things were gone.
ROBERT GIFFORD (policeman, H 89.) I took Chapman—I said it was for being concerned with Mortimer for stealing some clothes from his grandfather—he said, "I know, but I was not with him; he told me he had them of his grandfather; I slept with him that night, and he pawned them in Hackney-road; he gave me 1l. or 22s. out of it."
MORTIMER— GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined One Year.
CHAPMAN— GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Three Months.
JAMES CHARLES THIES . I am a baker, at Wapping—Whitehead was my errand-boy. On 28th June I had a brooch safe on the mantel-piece, on 2nd July I missed it—I asked Whitehead about it—he said he knew nothing about it—I told him to tell me the truth, and I would forgive him—he then told me something, and I went with him to Aston's, who keeps a watchmaker's shop—I asked him if he had bought a brooch—he said he had, and produced it—he said he gave a shilling for it, and he was not aware of the value of it, he regretted very much that he bought it of the boy—this is my brooch, it is worth 3l. 10s.
Cross-examined by Mr. PARNELL. Q. He told you he gave a shilling for it before you asked him how much he had given for it? A. Yes—he said the boy told him he had picked it up, and he was not aware it was so valuable; and he put it away in case he should see it advertised—I believe he-tas lived at that shop seven years.
Cross-examined. Q. You have known Aston's shop? A. Yes, for years—I do not know him, but I know his father—Aston said he was very sorry, but after the boy was gone, he found it was more valuable than he thought it was, and put it away thinking there might be some advertisement—he said the boy told him he found it in the Tenter-ground.
WHITEHEAD— GUILTY. Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor who engaged to take him again — Confined Three Days.
ASTON— NOT GUILTY .
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
DAVID GEORGE FOSTER . I am an ironmonger, at St. John-square. Jones was in my employ, to carry out goods and attend to the iron—we do not send out samples—he had nothing to do with the files, except at stock taking, to assist in putting them up and down off the shelves—I have known Smedley for some years—on the evening but one before the prisoners were taken, I saw them in a corner in my iron-yard, talking—I went up and said to Smedley, "You are a man I know very well; I recollect your face for years, but I forget your name"—he said, "Smedley"—I said, "What can I serve you with?"—he took hold of a little bit of iron, and said that would do for him—he paid me 2d. for it—at the police-court Jones said he had been doing the best he could for me; he was trying to sell the files—he repeated that in the presence of Smedley—Smedley made no reply—these files are of three sorts—each package is one sort—a sample would be one file.
JOSEPH BERRYMAN (policeman, G 181.) On 16th June I went with Walker to St. John-square, a little before seven o'clock in the morningJones came to his work as near seven o'clock as possible—Jones came from the shop, went up Jerusalem-passage into Aylesbury-street, and on to Clerkenwell-green—he then crossed the road, and joined Smedley, who was standing there—they went into the Spencer's Arms—Walker went into the tap-room to them—Smedley came out and called Jones out of the tap-room—they had some gin and milk together—Smedley went into the tap-room again, and called Jones to go to him—Jones did not go, and Smedley came out again, and just as he was about to speak to Jones, Walker asked him if his name was not "Jones"—he said it was—Walker asked him if he did not work for Mr. Foster, in St. John-square—he said, "Yes"—Walker said, "What have you got there?" touching his pocket—I think Jones said, "What is that to you?" but I could not exactly hear—Walker put his hand into his pocket, and brought out these files—Jones looked at Smedley—he afterwards said he had brought the mout as samples, to show Smedley—Smedley heard that, but made no answer—I had watched the premises for eight or ten days, and had seen Smedley on the Wednesday and Thursday mornings previous, standing with Jones on Clerkenwell-green, between seven and eight—one morning they went to the Lamb and Flag. and the other morning to the Spencer's Arms.
RICHARD WALKER (police-sergeant, G 33.) I was with Berryman, watching Mr. Foster's premises—I saw Jones come out, walk down the passage to Clerkenwell-green, and join Smedley—they went into the Spencer's ArmsI had known Smedley before—I went in—he was in the tap-room—he came to the bar and called Jones, who did not attend to him—I believe Jones had
not known me before—I was in plain clothes—I said, "Is not your name Jones?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "Don't you work for Mr. Foster, in St. John's-square?"—he said, "Yes"—I said, "What have you got here, in your pocket?"—he said, "What is that to you!?"—I said, "I am a police-officer;" and showed my handcuffs—I then put my hand in his left-hand pocket, and brought out these files—it was a large pocket, inside his jacket—I told him to consider himself my prisoner—he said, "Well, I brought these files to show Smedley, as a sample"—Smedley said, "Yes; he has"—these are them; there are five dozen of them—Smedley said he was going to turn sawsharpener.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Were they in five parcels? A. No; in three parcels, wrapped up in paper—I thought two of the parcels had been disturbed—there was string round them—I think Jones said, "I did not intend to steal them; I was only bringing them as samples"—when I took the two parcels, he produced the others, and said, "Here they are; five dozen in all"—I had hold of him first.
WILLIAM POTTER . I am in Mr. Foster's employ—Jones had access to the files—he had no right to take samples—samples were never taken out of the shop to my knowledge—his time to come to work was seven o'clock—he was sometimes a few minutes after—I was in the-habit of watching the men when they left the premises—I observed Jones leave the premises almost every morning for a fortnight before he was taken—I know Smedley, by bis corning to the shop—I had seen him in the square three or four times a week, about twenty minutes before seven, walking to and fro—I saw Jones join him once, about a week before he was taken—I know these files.
(The prisoners received good characters.) JONES— GUILTY . Aged 35: SMEDLEY— GUILTY . Aged 62.— Confined Nine Months.
GUILTY . Aged 36.— Confined One Month..
1683. BEVAN LABON, BENJAMIN RAWLINS, JOHN DEAN , and JOSEPH WHITE , were indicted for a robbery on John Jackson, and stealing from his person I handkerchief, 1 pair of stockings, and. I comb, value 1s.; his goods.
MR. PRENDERGAST conducted the Prosecution.
BENJAMIN EMSLEY . I am superintendent of Shoreditch-workhouse. On 16th June, at night, the prisoners were admitted as casual paupers, and a man named Norris, who is in Court—Jackson was admitted that night, and in the morning he and Bruce complained to me, and I had the prisoners taken and searched—Norris was searched about an hour and a half afterwards—I found this pair of stockings on his feet.
RICHARD ALLEN . I am superintendent of the shoemaking department in Shoreditch-workhouse. On 17th June, between six and seven o'clock in the morning, I went into the casual ward—Jackson complained to me of the four prisoners—they were taken into custody—I produce two odd stockings which I got from off Norris's legs, and a handkerchief which Jackson gave me.
JOHN JACKSON . On Friday night, 16th June, I went into the casual ward of Shoreditch-workhouse—between four and five o'clock the next morning I got up. and put on my trowsers—Rawlins said I had got some money—I said, if I had it was mine—he said it should not be long mine, and took hold of me,
to knock me down—Labon and White came up—they all took hold of me, while Dean picked my pocket—I did not see him take anything, but I had in my pocket a pair of stockings, a handkerchief, and a comb, before they came to me—I called for help to the watchman—they knocked me down put me between two beds, and put a rug over my mouth—I could neither halloo nor see anybody—I afterwards went into the yard—I wanted to get away from them—they followed me, and knocked me down again: brought me again and knocked me down, because I kept calling for the master—I saw D—putting my handkerchief into his shirt—I said it was mine, and asked him to give it me—he threw it on the bed—I took it up—I found my stocking on Norris's feet—the feet were cut off; they were not so when I had them—I complained to Allen in the morning.
MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. Are you quite sure these are the parties? A. Yes.
GEORGE BRUCE . I was in the workhouse, and saw this attack made on Jackson—he was going to put on his trowsers—he called on me for helpI was afraid to help him—they put the rug over his face, and hurt him-Labon, Dean, and White were three of them—there was a fourth.
White. Q. Did I catch hold of the man? A. I saw you help to put the rug on his head, and knock him down between two beds.
JAMES HARRIS . I was in the casual ward on the night of 26th June—I saw them put the rug over the man's head, and put him down and misuse him—all the prisoners were round him, and others beside—I could not see which put the rug over him.
Rawlins' Defence. At five o'clock in the morning I got out of bed; this man was hallooing; I opened the door; and he said, "You are one that has been pushing me about."
Dean. I was asleep.
While's Defence. I awoke about five o'clock in the morning; I saw the bed in confusion; I did not know what it was till I opened the door, there being no windows; I went to bed again, and laid till eight; he came, and said, "There is one in bed," and they took me; there were about forty there.
JURY to BENJAMIN EMSLEY. Q. Were there windows in the place? A. No; they knocked them all out—the windows were boarded up, but there was sufficient light to see, and the door was open.
LABON— GUILTY . Aged 19: RAWLINS— GUILTY . Aged 18: DEAN— GUILTY . Aged 19: WHITE— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years .
HANNAH FORIN . On 20th June, about three o'clock, I was walking with a friend, in Hall-place, St. John's-wood; I was suddenly struck in the breast, and immediately my watch and glass were snatched from me—the person ran off—mv friend, who was just before me, heard me scream, and turned, and prevented my falling—I saw the prisoner crossing the road, and by the time I got to him he was in custody of two men—I said, "If you will give me my watch and glass I will let you off"—he said, "If you will let me go I will never do it again"—a person said, "Here is a man who has found your watch"—a lady came up, and found my glass—these are them—the prisoner threw one on each side as he ran.
JOHN GORE . I was going up St. John's-wood-road, between two and three o'clock—the ladies asked me the way to Avenue-road—I saw the prisoner at the corner of Hall-place, and as the ladies approached he made a sadden rush at the prosecutrix—she screamed—he ran off—I pursued him—by the time I got to him two labourers had got him—I saw him throw down lie watch.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Transported for Ten Years.
THOMAS JOHNSON (policeman, G 82.) On 17th June, about ten minutes past one in the morning, several men were quarrelling in Greek-street—a woman called "Police!"—I was crossing over, and James met me, collared me, and attempted to butt me—he put his head in my belly, and tried to throw me over his head—I collared him, and we both went down together—we got up again, and I sprang my rattle—I got James nearly to the corner of Compton-street, and one of his companions said, "Give it to the b----b----," or something of that sort—I received this blow on my head from one of his companions—we then struggled—several of his companions attempted to rescue him—I got a little fresh life in me, and when I was rising I received a second blow on my head—I never let him go—I was severely kicked and bruised—I have the marks on my side and on my forehead now, and hare been in the doctor's hands ever since—Purkiss came up when I was on the ground, before I got the second blow.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. How many persons were there? A. Five men and two women—I cannot say that James hurt me much.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. How many were there before the affair was over? A. There might be twenty—I did not see any one strike me.
RICHARD JONES . I was returning home, at ten minutes or a quarter-past one—I saw Johnson go over the road—James rushed at him, and threw him down—while he was struggling another of the party went behind James, got something from him, and struck Johnson two blows on the head—I heard Purkiss say, "Give it him! do for him! down with the b----y police!"—the blood came through Johnson's coat, and his face was in one mass—after that he was struck again with a life-preserver—Purkiss tried to rescue James from the constable, but another officer came and took him.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. It was after James had butted the officer that Purkiss tried to pull him away? A. Yes—I was returning from a public-house in Greek-street—I went there about half-past eight.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. What are you? A. A painter, but am out of employ—I was in the Police about ten months—I left it about five weeks since—I was allowed to resign—there was no talk of discharging me—there was a report against me for having been seen drinking in a public-honse—there were three reports against me—I have since been living with my friends, and I have had one or two days' employ at a grocer's—I never attended County Courts.
NOT GUILTY .
DENNIS SULLIVAN . I live in King-street, Poplar. I was in the East India-road at a quarter-past nine, on 26th May—the prisoner had hold of a female's arm, and I heard her say, "Let go I—I knew her by her voice turned round, touched the prisoner on the shoulder, and asked him if he knew what he was going after—he said, "Yes"—I turned to the female and asked what he was doing—she said he wanted to take her to Abbot's fields—I turned from her, and lifted my hand up, and the prisoner ran away, and in four or five minutes he came and stabbed me in the bottom of my stomach I cannot tell what with—I was taken to the Hospital, and have been there ever since—I am sure he is the man.
Prisoner. Q. Did you hear me speak to the girl? A. No—I was passing by—you sang out for the Police—I did not seize you by the collarI did not strike you—I did not call you a b----special.
MARY SMITH . The prisoner asked me if I would go with him for the night—I said, "No"—he said, "You shall go across the field"—I said."I shall not"—he pulled out a knife from his pocket, stabbed Sullivan will it, and made off as quick as he could—I had not seen Sullivan strike him.
Prisoner. You were twenty yards away. Witness. I saw the knife; I was not two yards from you.
EMILY WILSON . I was passing, between nine and ten o'clock that nig;—the prisoner wanted Smith to go with him—she refused—Sullivan came up, and said, "You unmanly b----r, let the girl alone"—in a few minutes the prisoner came, and said, "You ugly b——r, what did you call 'Police! I for?"—Sullivan called out, "Oh, my God, I am dead! I am murdered!"—I ran after the prisoner, called, "Police!" and begged some one to take Sullivan to a medical man.
JAMES WILLIAM GEORGE . I was passing Limehouse Church—I saw the prisoner strike Sullivan in the groin—I cannot say what with—some gentleman caught him—he exclaimed, "Oh, my God! he has stabbed me; I am dying!'
Prisoner. Q. You told him to strike me? A. I did not—he did not strike you.
ROBERT HEELIS . I am a surgeon. Sullivan was brought to me—he bad a wound, which appeared to be caused by a knife, about an inch and a half long—it penetrated the abdomen—it was a dangerous wound—he is ill now.
Prisoner's Defence. The girl asked me to go home; I told her to go on; she would not; I shoved her away; she came again, and I shoved her into the road; I walked away and met Sullivan; he said, "Is that you, you b—y special! I would hammer you;" another man said, "Do the b—y preacher, now is your time;" the woman said, "Do give it him;" he struck me twice; I got away, and called "Police!" they pursued me, and Sullivan, put his hand into my collar, and twisted my neck till I was nearly choked; I begged for mercy, and that he would spare my life—he said, "You b—r, I won't;" I took my knife out, thinking my life was in danger, and told him I would cut his hand if he did not let go my collar; I then drew the knife on his hand, he tried to take it from me, and to knock me down; I got some distance from him, and heard him say, "I am cut," but I thought it was his hand; I don't know how he got cut.
GUILTY .— Transported for Fifteen Years.
EDWARD WARD . I am a sweep. On the night of 13th June, I went to a public-house—a number of persons were there, and the prisoners—theycom-aepced by being angry as I went in, and they were going to ill-use a man, and two of them struck him—I said it was a shame for two to strike one man—lie moment I said that, I was knocked down and kicked about the face by the two prisoners and many others—I got up, and made a blow at Keefe, but the moment I struck him I was knocked down—there were so many of them, I could not tell by whom—I came out—there were a great many outside, and before I could get my foot outside, they took me by the collar, dragged me out, threw me down, and struck me, and Keefe hit me on the head with a large stone—it produced blood—I was not sensible—I was carried to the Hospital—Welch was in the mob with Keefe when I had this blow.
Keefe. Q. You struck me first. A. No.
HENRY MARTIN . I was at the public-house—two men came and asked why I did not fight—one struck me—I turned round, and was struck by another—Ward said, it was too bad, and he was knocked down and kicked—I saw him after the door was open—I had hold of him, when his head was cut with the stone—I could not swear that the prisoners were outside when the stone cut him.
JAMBS PAGE (policeman, B 147.) I saw Ward coming out of the Globe—the prisoners and two other men rushed at him—I went immediately to his assistance, and pulled both the prisoners off—they were then on him, and kicking him—the prisoners were rescued from me—some of the mob had hold of my arms, and I saw Keefe take this stone (produced) out of his jacket-pocket, and throw it at Ward, who immediately fell—Welch was amongst the mob, standing close by Keefe's side—the moment Keefe threw the stone, he and Welch ran away—Ward laid for twenty minutes in the road, before we knew whether he was dead or alive.
JAMES BAKER STONE . I live in Princes-yard. I saw Keefe outside the public-house door—he flung something, but I cannot tell whether a brick or a stone—the moment he threw it he ran away—I said, "You villain, you hare killed the man"—I ran after him to the next street—if I could have seen a policeman I should have given him into custody—I came back, and they were lifting Ward up, and taking him to the Hospital.
The prisoner WELCH called
MICHAEL CONNOR . On Whit-Monday I was in the Globe when this row took place—I saw Welch, and about thirty more—Ward came out of the door, a man attacked him with a stone and hit him on the bead—they tustled away—Ward knows the man as well as he knows me—then his brother-in-law tried to save him—I looked round and saw Welch standing against the wall—the stones were flying thick—Keefe was against the wall—he said, "Somebody struck me in the side"—my brother went round, and gave Welch in charge—he never struck a blow—I met my brother and the policeman coming back, to take Keefe from his lodgings—I asked if bail would be taken—they said, "No"—I never saw either of the prisoners strike a blow—Ward knows the man who did all the damage.
DOROTHY FIZGERAID . I went into the Globe between twelve and one o'clock—I saw some men talking about fighting—Ward came up and took one man's part—I was there when the door was opened—Ward hit Keefe with a quart pot, knocked him down, and cut his head open—it was a very severe cut—Keefe did nothing, he only held his hand up—Welch did nothing.
WELCH— NOT GUILTY . KEEFE— GUILTY .— Confined Eighteen Months .
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Three Months.
THOMAS CROOKS JONES . I have an unoccupied house, 4, Crisp's Cottages, Bromley—I went there about 19th June—I found the back-door open, and missed a copper, which had been fixed in the washhouse—I had seen it about three weeks before—it has never been found.
ALFRED SMITH . I live in Orchard-street, Bromley. On 19th Jane, I saw Cluen come out of Mr. Jones' house with a bag, which appeared heavy—Mann was with him—I said they would get into trouble—thet said nothing.
JAMES HAMS (police-sergeant, E 21.) At the station-house, Mann told Crisp if he would forgive him he would tell him the truth—he said he did not take the copper, but he went with a person to a marine-store shop; that he did not go in, but saw it sold for 3s.
Mann's Defence. I had nothing to do with it—I saw Cluen, and another boy go down the East India-road—Cluen took the copper to the marine-store shop, and got 3s. for it.
NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Thursday, July 6th, 1848.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Justice WILDE; Mr. Baron PARKE; Sir PETEE LAURIE, Knt., Ald.; Sir JAMES DUKE, Knt., Ald.; and EDWARD BULLOCK, Esq.
Before Edward Bullock, Esq. and the Fourth Jury.
FREDERICK ISAACSON . I live at 9, Seymour-row. On the night of 15th June I was at the Crown and Anchor, Drummond-street—I do not recollect seeing the prisoner—I had been dining with some friends—I went out towards home—I was not drunk, but between tipsy and sober—I had some half-crowns and shillings loose in my waistcoat-pocket—the prisoner pushed me down, put his hand in my pocket, and took out half-a-crown.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I pick it up and offer it you? A. No.
little, before nine o'clock at night, I was in the tap-room of the Crown and Anchor—Isaacson came in, and had a pint of ale—he was three-parts drunk he pulled a handful of silver out of his left pocket—I saw several half-crowns—the prisoner was there, and never look his eye off him—he followed him out—I had suspicions, went out, and saw the prisoner put his shoulder under Isaacson's shoulder, and throw him down; he fell on his side, and his head against a door—I went up, and found the prisoner with his left hand in Isaaeson's pocket; I pulled it out, it was closed—I said, "What have you got bere, drop it;" he struck me in the face—Isaacson called "Help!"—Morris came up, and we held the prisoner till a policeman came.
JAMES MORRIS . On 15th June, in the evening, I was at the Crown and Anchor; the prisoner was there—Mr. Isaacson came in—I saw him leave—the prisoner left not half a minute afterwards—I followed, and saw the prisoner knock the old man down—I saw Rowe take something from his hand—we held him till a policeman came.
GEORGE COOPER (policeman.) I received information, and found the prisoner in Rowe's custody, who said he saw him take half-a-crown from Isaacson's pocket—the prisoner said, "I have done nothing"—at the station he said he went to help him up—Isaacson was sitting in a doorway—he was drunk.
Prisoner's Defence. Isaacson fell down, and half-a-crown fell from his pocket; I picked it up, and was going to assist him up, when the man took me; my hand was not in his pocket.
GUILTY . Aged 34.— Transported for Seven Tears.
Before Mr. Baron Parke.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL, with MR. WELSBY, MR. BODKIN, and MR. CLERK, conducted the Prosecution.
MR. RICHARD KEMMIS . I am the son of the Crown Solicitor, at Dublin. I produce an examined copy of the record of the conviction of John Mitchell, for felony. before the Commission Court—I examined it with the original record.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Where did you examine it? A. At the office of the Clerk of the Crown, at the Commission Court, Dublin—Mr. Alien, the clerk of the Crown, was present when I got it—the records are kept in his office, not at one of the Inns of Court—the Clerk of the Crown has no office attached to the Commission Court—this is not a record of the Court of Queen's Bench, in Dublin, it is a record of the Commission Court—the Clerk of the Crown is what they call the Clerk of the Arraigns, in England—the records of that Court are in the custody of that Court, and this is one of those records.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Where did you find it? A. At the office of the Clerk of the Crown—that is an office belonging to the Commission Court, though not attached to it; and the records are kept there—I have been there frequently, and know of my own knowledge that Mr. Allen, the Clerk of the Crown, is the keeper of the records.
(An extract from the copy of the record was here read, as in page 356. MR. PARRY, (admitting the recoid to be evidence of the fact of the conviction of Mitchell,)contended that it did not establish the accuracy of the statements con-'vned in it; and objected to its being read at all until proof was given of
allusion having been made to Mitchell by the defendants. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL did not press it until such proof was given.)
FREDERICK TOWN FOWLER . I am a reporter for the public press, and have been so six or seven years. I attended a meeting that was held on Clerkenwell-green, on Monday, 29th May, for the purpose of reporting the proceedings for the newspapers—I got there about half-past six—there was a van for the purpose of the speakers—there might have been between 2, 000 and 3, 000 persons assembled altogether—some appeared to be labouring menthe majority appeared to be boys, ragged and dirty—I did not take particular notice of them, not to say what country they were of—I saw Williams in the van—he was the first person who addressed the meeting—I took a noted the substance of his address, which I have here—he stood up by the side of the van while he spoke—a person named M'Carthyfollowed him, and then Fussell—I have a note of their speeches—(reading them as in former case. See pages 341 and 342)—these speeches were received by the mob with applanse—I saw Vernon there—I cannot say that he was present when Williams spoke—my impression leads me to believe that he came into the van about ten minutes or a quarter of an hour afterwards—I did not see him before that time—I cannot say whether it was before or during the time of M'Carthy's speech—Vernon was in the van; I am not positive whether he was there during M'Carthy's speech or not—I should not like to be positive that he was present at any of the speeches—I know he was there, but at what period I am not positive—I think he must have been there during Fussell's speech, but I am not positive—Williams then said: "Now my friends, fall into marching order, four a breast"—they did so, and in that order marched of the Green, down Aylesbury-street, into St. John-street—I went down Wilderness-row, and met them again at the corner of Old-street—they went down Old-street, down the City-road, into Finsbury-square—I noticed Williams at every point where I noticed the procession; he was at the head of them.
(MR. PARRY objected to any evidence of acts done except in the parish of St. James's, Clerkenwell, that being the parish stated in the indictment. The COURT was of opinion that this was mere statuteable venue, and that evidence might be given of any act done in the county of Middlesex.)
(MR. SERJEANT ALLEN here applied, on behalf of Williams, to be allowed to retract his plea, and plead GUILTY , stating that after the lucid exposition of the law, yesterday, by the Lord Chief Justice, as to what constituted an illegal meeting, he could make no reasonable struggle against the application of the evidence. The COURT considered, as the Jury were charged, it would be better to take a verdict of GUILTY at the end of the case, which was consented to.)
Q. During the progress of the marching from Clerkenwell-green to Fins-bury-square did you see Vernon? A. Well, I have an impression that I did; but it is an indistinct one—I recollect, when the procession was formed, seeing two friends of Vernon, and one, with a female, took his arm, and I imagine he and those two friends went with the procession; but since I gave my evidence at How-street I have endeavoured to recollect every fact connected with the procession, and I cannot distinctly recollect that I saw Vernon with that procession—I think I saw him in Oxford-street, but I am not positive—I know I saw him in Finsbury-square, but not in the procession; he was walking arm-in-arm with the same two friends in the square—the persons who composed the procession were walking round the square at the time, and I was walking round with Mr. Potter—the majority of the persons who walked round Finsbury-square in the procession were arm-in-arm—I
should say they were in Finsbury-square from half to three-quarters of an hour.
Q. Was anything said about the object of their staying there? A. Nothing was said officially by the leaders, but some of the parties said they were waiting for other parties from Stepney; that was mentioned by several parties there. (MR. PARRY did not think further evidence as to the acts of the procession could be received as against Vernon, he not being proved to be present.)
COURT. Q. I understand you to say, upon taxing your recollection to tie utmost, you cannot say that Vernon started with the procession? A. No, I could not say positively—my impression was, when I gave evidence at Bow-street, that he did; but knowing I should be here I have tried to recollect every fact, and I cannot tax my memory with seeing him anywhere else—I thought I saw him in the City-road, but afterwards I thought I did not.
The COURT considered it would be better not to go into further evidence on this foist until Vernon was proved to be present.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Do you recollect, before the procession was formed on Clerkenwell-green, hearing Vernon make use of any expression? A. In the van I asked Mr. Vernon whether he knew a friend of mine, mentioning his same—he said yes, he did—he sat down, I think, two or three from me, on the side of the van, and just before the procession started there were three curses given either for the b----y Aristocracy or the b----y Whigs, and Vernon said, "I do not like that work," or "I do. not like curses—curses break no bones;" that was addressing me, it was five or six minutes after my inquiry of him as to ray friend—the set speakers had then finished, and I think Williams was giving directions about falling into order.
HORACE HARDY (police-sergeant, G 15.) On Monday evening, 29th May, I was at Clerkenwell-green—I recollect the procession leaving there—I was afterwards at Finsbury-square, and saw Vernon there, arm-in-arm with two persons walking in the procession round the square—I had seen Vernon before last April—I did not see him again that evening till I saw him on the leads at the first-floor window of a coffee-shop in Redcross-street—I know Williams—I did not see him in Finsbury-square; I saw him on Clerkenwellgreen, and I saw him at the head of the procession in Compton-street, and in Redcross-street on the leads of the coffee-shop, with Vernon—I know M'Cariiy—I did not see him on Clerkenwell-green; I first saw him in Redcross-street, about half-past eleven o'clock—the procession had halted in the street, in front of the coffee-shop, where I saw Williams and Vernon—Williams made a speech to them from the leads, and said that they had now had a meeting to show Finality Jack whether they wanted reform or no—he said, "He would not let us have a meeting on the 10th of April; we have now bad one without his leave, and we will continue to meet every night on Clerkenwell-green and Stepney-green, until we hear such news from our. Irish brethren as our damnable press will not give us; I mean when our Irish brethren will want us to assist them in obtaining their liberties;" that is all I remember of what he said—Vernon then spoke—he commenced with saying, "Myrmidons! myrmidons! for that is now your name;" and then he said something about how they got that name, but I do not recollect exactly how he explained it; and he said this night had cheered his drooping spirits—he should not speak much, he was now resolved only to act—he said, "You will go home quiet to-night;" and to that the mob began saying, "No, to-night! to-night! Come down among us, and lead us, and we will do it to-night?"—I do not think he said any more, but from the noise of the mob I could not
hear—I think the influence of the mob prevented his saying more—M'O—then said, as if in answer to what the mob was saying, "No, not to-night but to-morrow night, and bring your guns and pistols with you;" that was all M'Carthy said—Vernon was still there—there was a great noise & and M'Carthy was obliged to repeat what he said several times—I could distinctly hear what Vernon said—I should think he could hear what M'Carthy said he was about a yard from him—M'Carthy was at the window, and Venton on the leads outside—M'Carthy spoke from behind Vernon—I was about twenty yards from the window—the City police then came up, and dispersed the assembly.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY. Q. Were you in plain clothes on this night? A. Yes—I do not belong to the detective police, I am one of the ordinary police—I made a report to the inspector as soon as I arrived at the station of all I had observed—I was acting under special instructions—the coffee-shop is in Redcross-street, in the line of the shops—the leads win Vernon was were about sixteen feet above the pavement—it is the little, narrow ledge that comes out over the front of the shop—there was a great crowd—I took notes of some of what was said—I took notes of what Vernon said—I destroyed them—I first made a copy of them, and sent it to the inspects:—this was half-past eleven at night—I was standing nearly in the middle c! the road—it is the widest part of Redcross-street, near Barbican—I rab the crowd, which was very numerous—I was in the middle of it—I hadra candle—the lamp-posts are not in the middle of the street—I was not under a lamp-post—I had no lamp with me—I wrote the best way I could—(the witness was here requested to write a sentence, which he did very rapidk)think I was about twenty, or thirty yards from the speakers—I was not with any other policeman at that time—there were City policemen there, in uniform—I did not see any that I know of in plain clothes—I was examined before the Magistrate—I was not there when Vernon was examined—I believe he was examined the day after Williams was—I had communicated with Mr. Hayward before that—he knew what I could say—I have said that Vernon was walking in the procession in Finsbury-square—most of them were walking four abreast—I was on the pavement—I did not see Mr. Fowler there—I did not know him at that time—there was a great may respectable people there—the procession became a matter of curiosity all the way it went—I saw respectable tradesmen and householders following and gazing on.
MR. CLERK. Q. You say you were walking on the pavement? A. Yes—Vernon was in the road with the procession, but I cannot undertake to say at what part of it—the procession was in the middle of the roadway—these who were looking on were most of them on the pavement.
F. T. FOWLER re-examined. I heard some of the people in Finsbury-square say they were waiting for some persons to join them from Stepney—after waiting half or three-quarters of an hour, the procession went down Beech-street, Chiswell-street, Barbican, and Long-lane, into Smithfieic, Snow-hill, and up Holborn, into Oxford-street—thev there passed the Land and Labour Bank, and gave three cheers—from there they proceeded down Broad-street, and along one of the streets into Leicester-square, turned up Princes-street, into Macclesfield-street, into Dean-street, and stopped at the Chartist Assembly-rooms there—I think they were addressed from the window, but I am not certain—there was a great deal of cheering and hur-rahing, and calling on them to come down from the windows, but I was not near enough to hear distinctly—the numbers of the procession increased very
considerably as they went on—at Dean-street, which was the last place wher I saw them, I should think there were 50, 000 or 60, 000—I then went home to write my report.
Q. During the progress of this procession through the streets you have mentioned, what effect appeared to you to be produced on the peaceable inhabitants residing in the line of procession? A. Oh, a great deal of terror and alarm—numbers of shops were closed up suddenly, and doors; and when I kept ahead of the procession, parties, seeing it was coming, shut up their shops before it arrived—I noticed that in several instances there was a great deal of noise, cheering and halooing—it appeared to be occasioned chiefly by the parties who joined in, boys and others running out of the streets and meeting them—I should imagine that the main body of the procession continued linked arm-in-arm, four abreast, in the way I have stated—I saw Williams and Fussell at the head, and I think M'Carthy; and there was another one who carried a stick, and gave the command to fall in to the parties coming out of the streets—I do not know his name—he walked at their bead, and gave them directions when to halt—he appeared to be the leader of the band—Williams was immediately next to him—Williams, Fussell, and the other man, were heading the people—the other man gave the directions—he was at the side of them—I do not know who he was—I did not know any of them before.
Cross-examined by MR. PARRY.Q. When Mr. Vernon was in the van, did you offer him a pinch of snuff, or he you? A. I do not take snuff, so it could not be either—I spoke to him, as I should address any respectable stranger in a crowd—my friend said, "I think that is Vernon, that, naming-, a friend of ours, knows;" and I asked him, and entered into conversation with him, as he appeared to be a respectable man—I do not know whether he was a leader or not—I do not know whether he is a friend of our friends—what Vernon said was, "I do not like that; 'Curses break no bones'"—from the manner of his saying that, I certainly believed he was deprecating the coarse expression of "Three curses for the Whigs!"—I thought he did not like such language, that he objected to it—my impression is that there were from eighteen to twenty-four people in the van—I dare say some of them were spectators, if I had gone merely as a spectator I should not have gone into the van—I went as a reporter—it is very possible that Vernon might have got into the van to avoid the pressure of the crowd, which was great—other parties were behind, trying to get into the van; and I knocked one man down, because it would have been inconvenient for me to make room for him—Potter was with me—my impression is that Vernon was not in the procession.—I did not see him positively in the procession—I saw him in Finsbury-souare.
Q. Was he at that time really walking in the procession, or walking as others, casually or idly present, might be walking? A. You see, that would be a difficult thing to say—he was walking round, and I was walking round with Mr. Potter—he might have been walking, for aught I know, for the same purpose—the procession was going round and round—they were not in order then—there were sometimes three or four, or eight rows, straggling.
MR. BODKIN. Q. You were there three-quarters of an hour? A. Yes—I only recollect seeing Vernon on that one occasion—we waited; in fact, I went to see a boy that was picking a pocket there, and my attention was taken off by that—I only saw Vernon for a minute, and then lost sight of him—I will not undertake to say whether he was on the pavement or not.
MR. PARRY. Q. Is there not a pavement in Finsbury-square besides the outer pavement round the square, a kerb round the railing, sufficient for two persons to walk? A. I think there is.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Was he upon that? A. I would not undertake to say—I know he was just at the corner—a woman at the time said they were marching, and I ran to the corner, and then I saw him.
WILLIAM BROOM CROSS (policeman, G 217.) I was on Clerkenvell-green on the evening of this meeting—the meeting appeared to be composed c; working men, costermongers, and some very low sort of characters—there were a great many Irishmen—I know Williams perfectly well—I saw him there, in the van—I did not see Vernon there; I have known him for sore months past—I was seven or eight yards from the van when Williams spelt—he said when he gave the signal they were to fall in four deep, and would then take them where they would meet ten times that number—I went away after I heard that, to report to my superintendent—when I returned Fussell was standing up and speaking—when he had finished, Williams said, "Now, my friends, fall in four deep"—I did not observe whether Vernon was there then—I subsequently, on the same evening, about half-past eleven, saw the crowd in Redcross-street, and saw Vernon then at the window of Cartwright's coffee-shop—I believe he was a the window in the room—he was addressing the crowd—I was not near enough to hear what he said—I believe I saw Williams at the same windowI did not hear him speak; he had spoken previously, when I was not there—the City and Metropolitan Police then came to disperse the crowd—they did not disperse quietly—there was a very great uproar indeed, shouting, and pelting the police with stones—that was both in Redcross-street and Golden-lane, where the police had driven them—they collected together there-Done of the police under my observation were injured—there was a polices;-injured there—I think the uproar took place almost immediately after Vemo: had spoken from the window—I did not observe whether he came down from the house or not—I should think it was about an hour before the crowd finally dispersed—the uproar was going on during all that time—a great many stones were thrown—the police were obliged to use their truncheons.
Cross-examined. Q. You say you were so far off that you could not hear Vernon; how far off were you? A. I do not know the distance particularly, but I should say between twenty and thirty yards—there was an uproar and noise—I was not standing there perhaps more than five minutes—there was a great crowd—I was not taking notes—the crowd was flowing backwards and forwards—I had been pushed a good many times, but not at the time I am speaking of—I was not in uniform—I was not with Hardy; I saw him afterwards.
COURT. Q. Had you instructions yourself? A. Yes; I had been following special duty for a long time previous, and had not been in uniform for some time previous to this assembly; it was not connected with that particular meeting.
MR. PARRY. Q. When did you communicate with Mr. Hayward, or any one from the Treasury? A. I have been several times to the Treasury, I cannot tell particularly when—I think it was last Tuesday that I communicated to Mr. Hayward about this meeting; by-the-by, I have recalled my memory, I had told Mr. Hayward, when at Bow-street, that I had something to say about the 29th—I was not called before the Magistrate—I do not know whether I was in the middle of the crowd; I was round about it, I was among the crowd.
SAMUEL SPECK (City policeman, 119.) I was employed, about ten minutes past eleven o'clock, on 29th May, in dispersing the meeting in Redcross-street—I know Williams well—I saw him outside the window of the coffeeshop—I have seen Vernon but do not know much of him—I heard Williams address the people—about ten minutes after that we endeavoured to clear the street—we had great difficulty in doing so; the police were attacked—a brick caught me on the top of my head, cut through my hat, and knocked me down senseless—I was taken to a surgeon, and confined to ray bed four days, and was three days off duty—other members of the police were attacked in the same way—the meeting was calculated to excite very great alarm indeed.
WILLIAM WILKINS (City police-serjeant, 47.) I was on duty in Smithfield, on 29th May—I saw the procession there, and watched it to Redcross-street, where there were speeches made from the window of the coffee-shop—I understood it was a person named Williams who spoke—several others were both inside and outside the window at the time—some of them were on the lads—the person who I understood was Williams said, "Fellow-eountrymen," or "workmen," I could not distinguish which, "we have this day achieved a most glorious victory over the bloody Whigs"—he then went on to say, "Lord John Russell said we wanted no reform; we have showed him this day that we want reform"—I then missed the greater part of it through a little disorder that occurred, and afterwards heard him say, "We are under a brutal and bloody government"—he then said, "Do you think that Mitchell tad a fair trial?"—the answer from the mob was "No"—he then said, "Do you think it necessary that we should have a Republican government?"—the mob answered "Yes;" and he then said, "We have this day had a most glorious demonstration"—he advised them to go away peaceably, and not to molest the police; but if the police molested them one man was to defend anotber—I believe that was all—he was followed by some one else, but what he said I could not understand; there was great confusion at the time—the police then attempted to disperse the assembly; great tumult and disorder followed—I did not see anything thrown—it was near an hour and a half before they were dispersed—I remained with a party of men in reserve, near the spot, till six in the morning.
Cross-examined. Q. How far were you from the window? A. Not exactly opposite, but about two houses off, on the opposite side of the way, at a distance of about fifty yards.
WILLIAM PRICE (Citypolice-serjeant, 66.) About eleven o'clock, on 29th May, I was at Cartwright's coffee-house, in Redcross-street—there were a great number of people there—I had followed them from Fleet-street—three or four persons got out on the leads, on the top of the shop, and addressed the people—I know Williams—I heard him speak—he said that they had gained a great and glorious victory; that it was said they should not meet—they had done so, and they would meet night after night by thousands—he said something about the base, brutal, and bloody Whigs, and several other things that I cannot recollect; I bad to attend to a lot of men—he told them not to harm the police, but if the police drew their truncheons on them each man was to defend his brother, or words to that effect—he was followed by two other speakers—I was told their names, but I do not know them—a body of police from another division strengthened our division, and the police then interfered and dispersed the meeting—stones were then thrown—I was knocked down with an iron pot, and have the wound on my head now—I should rather imagine that it came from a window—pieces of coke, coal,
bricks, and two or three earthenware jugs were also thrown—I was at the corner of the street, about thirty yards from Cartwright's coffee-shop, at the time the iron pot struck me on the head—it was about an hour and a half before the mob finally dispersed—the stones and brickbats continued to be thrown during most of that period.
Cross-examined. Q. How far were you standing from the window? A. I was standing, ranged by the side of my men, in front of the coffee-shop I had a body of men under my command—we were close in front while the parties were speaking.
JAMES COLLINS (City-policeman, 150.) On the night of 29th May one division was ordered out to Redcross-street—I got there about ten o'clockthere was a crowd collected opposite Cartwright's coffee-shop—there were persons at the window addressing the people—I did not distinctly hear what was said, the noise was so great—the street was full of people; there was a very large crowd—we endeavoured to disperse the crowd quietly, without the use of truncheons, in the first instance—we were not able to do so—we were then ordered to draw our truncheons, and to clear the street, which we began to do—we were resisted—when we arrived in Golden-lane we were attacked in all directions by the mob, and brickbats were thrown—I received one in the face myself—glass-bottles, pieces of coal and coke, and other missies, were also thrown—hot water was thrown from the windows, not upon me, but I heard that there was some thrown upon other constables—I did not see it, but my brother constables felt it on their persons—it was about one o'clock when I left the place to go to the surgeon's to have my face dressed—the police were still there to keep order.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL here proposed to read further portions of the writings upon which Mitchell was convicted.MR. PARRY renewed his former objection. The COURT was of opinion that, although the record was not evidence of the fact of the expressions contained in it having been used, it was admit sible to show the nature of the offence of which Mitchell was convicted, to explain the allusions made by the defendant Williams, but it ought not to affect Vernon, he not being proved to be present at the time those allusions were made. MR. PARRY, after that intimation, did not press his objection; and as the ATTORNEY-GENERAL expressed himself satisfied with the extracts already given, no others were read.
MR. PARRY called the following witnesses:
HENRY JAMES POTTER . I am a reporter. On 29th May I attended a meeting on Clerkenwell-green with Mr. Fowler—I think I stood nest to him, at all events there was not more than one person between us—I was carrying on my report with Mr. Fowler—I saw Vernon there in the van very shortly after the proceedings commenced; I saw him get into the van, but I do not distinctly recollect at what time—he got in during the delivery of the speeches—I saw him previous to getting into the van, standing in conjunction with a friend among the crowd, near the wheel of the van, but how long he stood there I am not able to say—I saw the meeting break upWilliams told his friends to fall into marching order, and the whole of the persons in the van got down—I think I was the last that remained in the-van, and when I reached the ground I found Vernon and two of bis friends standing within a few yards of the van, and at that time the procession moved off—I went down Red Lion-street I think, the first street on the right as you leave the Sessions-house going to St. John-street, and I saw Vernon and" his two friends immediately before me, perhaps thirty or forty yards, and
as nearly as I recollect they went into a public-house; at all events, about that time I lost sight of them—when the procession moved off the Green, Vernon remained at the wheel for some few moments—he did not move off in the procession, he went in a contrary direction; he went to the right, down Red Lion-street, and the procession moved straight on through Aylesbury-street—the van was placed in the middle of the Green—I never lost sight of Vernon after he left the Green till he went into the public-house as I supposed—I met the procession again at the corner of Wilderness-row, and Old-street-road, I think in Goswell-street, but I am not very well acquainted with the the neighbourhood, so I cannot speak as to the streets—the procession was going by at the time—I saw nothing of Vernon then—I accompanied the procession as far as Finsbury-square, where I again saw Vernon and his friends—I believe he was then walking with the same two friends that he was with before—he was walking there—my impression is, that at one time he was at the bead of the procession, but I really cannot say; I am not clear enough to swear to the fact—the persons remained some time in Finsbnrysquare. they walked round and round—I followed them some time after that, as far as the Chartist Assembly-rooms, in Dean-street—I saw Vernon two or three times in Holborn after leaving Finsbury-square—I wanted to speak to him, but at the time I got through the crowd I missed him again—I wanted information about the objects of the body, for I was tired of following the procession so long—in Finsbury-square the mob were all together, four abreast, in the same order as they left Clerkenwell-green—I do not know where Vernon lives—I have been subpoenaed here, or I should not have been. here—I was not subpoenaed by the prosecution.
Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. You took notes of the meeting? A. Yes; in short-hand—I took an abstract account rather than a verbatim one—my impression is that Vernon was not there when Williams addressed the meeting—I recollect a person who wore a moustache, and who was afterwards with him, coming there before the meeting commenced, and I recollect seeing that person alone after the meeting had been going on for some time—I do not know whether he was a foreigner or not, he had the appearance of one—Vernon afterwards joined him, and they came into the van together—I do not know whether Vernon brought him there; in fact, he did not meet him, because that man was there first—they got on the van together—I do not know whether that was during Williams's speech—I should think he was there before Fussell's speech, but I should not like to pledge myself—he was there during some portion of Fussell's speech—the latter portion of Fussell's speech was that referring to assassination and to his five sons—it is quite impossible for me to say whether Vernon was there during that part of the speech—I should think he was there quite five minutes—I am certain he was there during some portion of Fussell's speech, but I would not undertake to say what part—I did not know where the procession was going; that was my object in attempting to address Vernon—when Williams said he would take them, he did not say where he would take them—he gave no clue to their intentions—I wanted to arrive at the concluwa of my journey—when I saw Vernon again in Holborn, he was opposite Mr. Feargus O'Conner's Land and Labour Bank—I do not know whether he was there when the people were cheering—when the cheering commenced there was great confusion, and I lost sight of him during that—when I did see him he was near Turnstile, which runs into Lincoln's-inn-fields—he was then walking along at the side of the procession, I think, arm-in-arm with the same two friends—I wanted to speak to him, to know the ultimate destination of
the procession, and I addressed him as being the most respectable man among them.
MR. PARRY. Q. Did you speak to him? A. I think I did in the van—I was not able to speak to him afterwards—I did not speak to him at the Land and Labour Bank—Holborn is in the way towards Tottenham-court. road—the Land and Labour Bank is just at the corner of Holborn and New Oxford-street—it is before you come to Tottenham-court-road, but in that direction—there were thousands of persons walking by the side of the procession.
Q. Without taking part in it? A. Why I do not see how they coold be walking by the side of it without taking part in it—I do not mean to say that everybody who was walking in the direction of the procession was taking a part in it—I was not taking part in it myself, yet I was walking with them—I believe they were walking four abreast at that time, but it had become somewhat irregular by that time—they did not break up in Finsburrsquare, before they re-formed—there was a great addition to their numbers, but I do not think they re-formed there.
CHARLES SMITH . I am a picture-dealer and bookseller, and reside at 94, Wardour-street. On the night of 29th May, I went to the meeting; at Clerkes-wellgreen—I got there a few minutes after seven o'clock—I saw Vernonthere, on the van—I saw the whole of the meeting fall into procession, and march from the Green towards Finsbury-square—I saw Vernon get out of the van, on the back side, immediately after the conclusion of the meeting, when they began to fall in—he did not take any part in the meeting afterwards—I did not notice him forming part of the procession—I afterwards saw him in Old-street-road, walking in the road with a gentleman, 400 or 500 yards behind the stragglers of the procession—I spoke to him, and walked with him some part of the way down the City-road—a gentleman of the name of Dalrymple was with me—we went on towards Finsbury-square—I saw Vernon walking towards the square, some distance behind the stragglers of the procession—after walking with him some distance, I returned to Dalrymple—I saw Mr. Vernon, after the procession had formed apparently, ci rather had walked round Finsbury-square, and at the time Vernon must have reached it it appeared to me they had gone round the square more than once—I saw the procession go round before I reached the square, and I saw Vernon pass through the procession, and go to the iron railing and walk with a gentleman, by the enclosure as it were forming the inner circle, but in no way connected with the procession, which was marching outside Mr. Vernon—there is a pavement round the circle of the square—the procession walked round the square, leaving a space of eight or ten fee! between them and the iron railing, and in that space Vernon walked without identifying himself with the procession—I observed that particularly—I did not see him in the procession at all at the time—having had some opportunity of seeing Mr. Vernon, I crossed through the procession, and went and asked him what was the object of the procession, and asked him to leave that place, and come with me, which he did—I then took hold of bis arm, and took him to a public-house, in Chiswell-street, where we had some refreshment—I should think we staid there a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes—I cannot say whether the procession went on, while we were absent, but it was walking when I left the square, and it was walking afterwards when I returned to the corner of Chiswell-street—I separated from Mr. Vernon there.
COURT. Q. Was the procession moving when you came out? A. In
the same way that I had left it—it appeared to have gone on; it had not passed the public-house, it was going round the square; it had not left the square—I returned with Vernon towards the square, and at the corner of Chiswell-street, we got separated by the crowd of stragglers—he appeared to go towards Moorgate-street—I heard the procession was going on to Smithfield—I then went considerably ahead of the procession, and waited inside the pens until the whole of the procession passed me, with an intention of seeing if Mr. Vernon was there—I wanted to know the object of the procession—I did tot see Vernon—I was looking for the purpose of seeing him—I feel certain that if be bad been there, I must have seen him—I followed the procession on the footpath through the various streets, till it reached the top of Holbom, when understanding that they were going towards Leicester-square, or Charingcross, I went down the short streets and courts; and when I got to Leicestersquare, I found myself at the head of the procession—I turned through, the square to the corner of Princes-street and Coventry-street, and saw the whole procession pass up Princes-street again, where I parted with it—Vernon was not then in the procession—I stood there, on purpose to see—I have no idea where be lives.
Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Is he married? A. I do not know—I only know him as a public man, a lecturer on mesmerism, phrenology, and other things, and I always opposed him wherever I met hin—I am an anti-mesmerist, and an anti-phrenologist—one reason why I went to the meeting was out of curiosity—Mr. Dalrymple, who had worked for me, called at my house, and asked me whether I knew there was to be a meeting on Clerkenwell-green—I said, "No," I did not, and he said, "I am going that way"—I stood in the pen, at Smithfield, for the purpose of ascertaining, if possible, the object of the—procession, to ask Vernon if he knew the object—I thought he was more likely to know than any. Other person, because I found there was no person that did know the object—I went to Leicester-square to see the procession pass, to see if there was any one I knew—Dalrymple invited me to attend the meeting—I understand there was a placard, but I did not see it—no placard was exhibited at the meeting—I heard Williams speak—I cannot say that I heard the whole of his speech, I heard some part of it—I saw Vernon in the van, when I got to the meeting—I heard several persons speak whose names I do not know—there is some difference between Vernon and me upon Chartism—we have never agreed yet on that point, as to the extension of the suffrage, and the payment of members—I know Cartwright's coffee-house, by having been there occasionally—I have not been there for twelve months—I do not know who keeps it—I believe it is a house that Chartists resort to—I know nothing of my own knowledge of the parties who go there—I never went but once—I know nothing about it from Vernon—I know the Chartist-rooms, in Dean-street, I have been there—I do not recollect that I was there on 26th May—the last time I went, it was so unpleasantly crowded, that I thought I would never go any more—I did not see or hear Vernon there.
MR. PARRY. Q. Did Vernon tell you anything about the purpose of this meeting? A. He told me he knew nothing whatever as to the purpose of the meeting—I went to make that inquiry—I did not ascertain the object.
JOHN DALRYMPLE . I am a carver and gilder, at II, Little Pulteney-street, Golden-square. On 29th May, I called on Mr. Smith, and went with him to the meeting on Clerkenwell-green—we got there a few minutes before seven, o'clock—when we got there I saw Vernon on the van—there were about.
twenty on the van—I heard several persons speak—I did not hear vernon speak—he did not utter a syllable while I was there—I saw the meeting move off towards Aylesbury-street—I saw Vernon on the Green—I do not remember who he was walking with at that time, or that he was walking with any person, for the crowd was so great—I saw the procession formed on Clerkenwell-green—I did not see him form part of it—I missed him for a time, and saw him again in Old-street-road—he was not then at all mixed with the procession, in fact not connected with it at all I might say—he was behind it thirty or forty yards—Mr. Smith and I at times parted a few yards from one another—we were sometimes on the pavement, and sometimes is the middle of the road—I continued following, and got closer up to Vernon in the City-road—he was then fifty or sixty yards from the procession—Mr. Smith, in my presence, entered into conversation with him—I walked close behind Vernon all along the City-road, from the end of Old-street-road to Fine bury-square—there were hundreds of people who had nothing to do with the procession following it in the same way; not walking four abreast, but stragglers going along the road—Vernon and his friend were among them—I saw Vernon in Finsbury-square—the whole of the procession had arrived five or six minutes before I did, and before Vernon and his friend did—I saw Vernon in the square—he did not form part of the procession while I saw tin there—the persons that I conceived to be the stragglers staid about the square as well—when we got to the square I left Vernon, and went with Mr. Smith down Chiswell-street, and afterwards I again saw Vernon walking arm-in-arm with his friend close to the railings of the square—I conceive he was not in the procession—there was a large space between the procession and the railing—he was close to the railing, and hundreds of the stragglers also—I did not go with Vernon to any public-house, I went into the house with Mr. Smith, and Mr. Smith and Vernon went in afterwards—it is the Pied How, in Chiswell-street—there were several friends of Vernon's with them—I sav Vernon come" out again, in about ten minutes—I was close to him in Chis-well-street—he remained with me a few minutes—I had stood opposite the public-house—I then lost sight of him—Mr. Smith and I then went along Chiswell-street, towards home—I saw the procession go along Barbies, Long-lane, and across Smithfield—I last saw it at the end of Compton-street, Soho—I saw it pass there—I did not see Vernon in the procession all the way—I cannot say in what direction he went when he parted from me—Mr. Smith had left me before I saw the procession pass Compton-street, at his father's house in Princes-street—I had a slight knowledge of Vernon before—I do not know where he lives.
Cross-examined by MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Where did you leave Smith? A. At the door of his father's house, in Princes-street—it was ten o'clock—I did not see him go in—I had been with him to Leicester-squareI did not follow the procession through all the streets—I was not in New Oxford-street—I saw it pass there, but I did not go up the street—I saw them pass the Land and Labour Bank—I was forty or fifty yards behind them—I did not see Vernon there—I cannot be sure he was not there, but did not see him—I saw the procession pass before me in Compton-street, and I did not see Vernon there—I was not looking for him—there were a good many people there that I know by sight—I did not see Williams there—I saw him at Clerken well-green, but not afterwards—I was never in any publie-house with Vernon in my life—I was with Smith the whole time—he and I did not go into a public-house with Vernon in Red Lion-street—I do not know Red Lion-street—we went into no public-house near Clerkenwell.
green with Vernon-—when I saw him in Finsbury-square he was walking armin-arm with a person named Jobson—he went across the procession—there was only one arm-in-arm with him then—I do not remember seeing him armasd-arm with two, without it was while he was walking—towards the square with Mr. Smith—I saw him walk round a small portion of the square, and when Smith called him he came across the procession, and went to the public-house—I heard the conversation between Smith and him as to the object of the meeting, before we came to Finsbury-square, and I also heard him speak at Finsbury-square.
Q. How came you to go to this meeting? A. I had business to do in Long-lane with a wood-merchant—I called on Mr. Smith, and said, "I was going about some timber, and would be walk across with me?"—there was to be some foolish meeting at Clerkenwell-green.
Q. How came you to hear of it? A. Why every person on these occasions hears of it—if you did not hear of it you must have been out of the way—I had heard all the neighbours speak about it—we cannot shut our ears—I am not a member of the Chartist body—I was four years ago, but I did sot like their doings.
MR. PARRY. Q. Did you make inquiries about the object of the meeting? A. Mr. Smith did in my presence—he asked Vernon—I believe he did not ascertain the object.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. It is not a haunted or deserted house? A. No—Sussex-street is close to the New-road.
WILLIAMS— GUILTY on both Counts. Aged 40.— Confined Two Years and One Week. VERNON— GUILTY on 1st Count . Aged 40.— Confined Two Years , and both to enter into their own recognizances in 100l. and find two sureties in 50l. each to keep the peace for three years.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, July 6th, 1848
PRESENT—Sir PETER LAURIE, Knt., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER; and Sir JAMES DUKE, Knt., Aid.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
1693. WILLIAM JACKSON, alias Smith, alias Cook , stealing 2 clocks, value 5l.; the goods of John Patient and others; I clock, value 3l.; and I coat, value 12s.; the goods of Thomas Devey; having been before convicted;to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY .— Confined One Year.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Transported for Ten Years.
MR. GORDON conducted the Prosecution.
JOSEPH WOODHOUSE . I am a market-gardener, at Enfield. Fuell was my servant—she had 5s. a month wages, and resided in my house—Woodhouse is my son's wife—I have been in the habit of keeping my money in small bag in a drawer in a chest of drawers in my bed-room—the drawer was locked—on the 29th of May there was from twenty to thirty sovereigns in the bag—I saw it safe that day, and I took one sovereign out, put it in my pocket and locked the drawer again—I put the key into my pocket—I then went to London with my wife—I left my house in charge of Fuell—I returned four o'clock—my wife returned on the following Friday, 2nd June; I fetched her home—I went to the drawer again on Monday, 5th June; a bit of the beading fell down when I opened the drawer—when I came to take the bag out to pay a bill, there was only five sovereigns in it—I found the drawer locked, I opened it with the key.
Cross-examined by MR. PLUMPTRE. Q. How long had you had Fuelli-your service? A. About twelve months—she is about sixteen years oldl know her father by sight.
Cross-examined by MR. PARXELL. Q. Have you found any money? A. The policeman found some in the privy—Woodhouse lived with her husband.
JOHN COLLINS (police-sergeant, N 24.) On 5th June, in consequence of information, I sent a constable, who brought Fuell to the station—after she was searched, I went into the room—she began to cry, and stated, "I only took four sovereigns"—I told her I did not want her to tell me anything about it, and if she did I should tell it again—she then said, "While ay mistress was in London, and master was in the field, I took the key, and unlocked the drawer, and took out four sovereigns; I changed two sovereigns at Mr. Turner's, and bought some things; I gave Woodhouse some of the money; on Sunday, I and Mrs. Woodhouse, and Reuben, (that is her husband) went to London to see my sister; I gave my sister a sovereign; he changed it, and I changed another, and we spent the money"—I afterwards took Woodhouse—I searched her house, and found some unmade dresses, some shawls, a long piece of calico, two pieces of linen, a reticule, a waistcoat, a habit-shirt, a bonnet, and a great many other things, all new—she said one of the dresses belonged to Fuell, and the roll of calico was given her by Fuell—I then went to the prosecutor's, and asked for Fuell's box—I found in it these keys—I searched Fuell's room, and found a great many new articles, a shawl, an unmade dress, a petticoat, stays, boots, collars, and other things—I traced where they were bought—they amounted in the whole to more than four sovereigns—on the following day I went again to Fuell's room; I found four aprons, a dozen napkins, and some other things, all new—on that day I went to the prosecutor's drawer—I found a piece of the beading broken of under the lock—I tried one of the keys which I had found in Fuell's box; it unlocked and locked the drawer easily—I think the beading must have been broken in pulling the drawer out violently; they are old drawers—I did
not see the drawer till after the prosecutor had opened it—I afterwards went to Mr. Turner's, in Baker-street, Enfield—I received there a roll of calico, which bad been paid for—I afterwards went to the cell where Fuell was; she was crying, and she said, "Where is Mrs. Woodhouse "—I said she was locked up in the other cell—she said she was a bad woman, worse than herself and that she (Fuell) had taken nine sovereigns, and had thrown a sovereign, and a half-sovereign, and six shillings, down the privy—I took the shoes off Woodhouse's feet, and they correspond with a pair of shoes which were amongst Fuell's things—Mrs. Woodhouse gave me this purse—it contains 6s. 6d. in silver, and some copper—in the first instance Fuell did not say anything about the nine sovereigns, only four, and she took the key alone and opened the drawer.
WILLIAM WINSBURY (policeman, N 315.) On 5th June, I went to the prosecutor's—Fuell was there, and I asked her where she bought those boxes that were there—she said out of her wages; that she gave 9s. 6d. for one, and could not recollect what she gave for the others—I afterwards took her into custody—I was present when Sergeant Collins searched Fuell's room, in the second instance, when he found seve al things—I went to Fuell's sister, and she gave me what Fuell had given her—it is here.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. Did Fuell tell you she had bought same new things I A. Yes, and that some things were at Woodhouse's—Woodhouse has been out on bail.
HENRY INGRAM . I am shopman to Mr. Turner, of Baker-street, Enfield. The two prisoners were customers there—they generally paid ready money—during the week after 29th May, Fuell came alone, and purchased some goods—Woodhouse was not with her—I did not serve Woodhouse that week—they had purchased a great many things, previously—these three shawls were purchased by the two prisoners together, previous to 29th May—these thirty yards of calico were purchased by Fuell on the morning of 5th June—I should think what Fuell purchased in the week after 29th May might amount. to 6l. altogether—I took four sovereigns of her in gold, besides silver—she purchased this umbrella on the morning she bought this calico—these boxes she purchased on Saturday, 3rd June.
EDMUND SMITH . I have been shopman to Mr. Turner about three years. The two prisoners have been customers of my master's for some time—they came together very frequently before 29th May—they did not come together after that—I believe they did not come on that day—I have seen Fuell there frequently.
JANE ANSELL , I am Fuell's sister, and am the wife of John Ansell, and live at Newington. My sister, and Reuben Woodhouse, and his wife came to me on Sunday, 4th June—my sister made me a present of some money and some ribbons—I gave them to the policeman—I went with the two prisoners to Turner's shop—I cannot say exactly when; it is ten weeks ago.
COURT. Q. Were you courting her? A. No—I do not know why she gave me these, I was surprised when she gave them to me—I gave them to my father, and he delivered them up to my master.
FUELL— GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury and Prosecutor.— Judgment Respited .
WOODHOUSE— NOT GUILTY .
MR. BRIARLY conducted the Prosecution.
SAMUEL SEAMAN . I am a butcher, at Halesworth, in Suffolk. On Friclay, 23rd June, I went to the Three Nuns, at Aldgate, to get a bed, between twelve and one o'clock at night—they could not give me a lodging there and I went to the Bull—I went up the yard, and found the door was done no—a woman followed me, and said, "I understand you want a bed?"—I said I did—she said she would get me one—I went across the yard to * *, and she followed me—she put her hand round into my pocket, and took my money—I caught her doing it—I ran after her—a man collared me at the corner of the yard, and said, "What business have you with my woman?"he kept me in discourse about three minutes—the woman ran up the street and this fellow ran after her—I told the policeman, and we went after themthe woman was taken in a coffee-shop—the prisoners are the persons, I am sure—I suppose it might happen at a quarter or twenty minutes before one.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. When did you come to town? A. On the Thursday, the day before I came up with some beasts—I was engaged all Friday in killing some beasts—I went to work at seven o'clock on Friday morning—I had not been in bed all Thursday night—I worked till eight o'clock on Friday evening—I had some refreshment—there were fired us killing beasts—we drank three or four pots of beer in the day; we had no liquor—at eight I went into Mr. Poynter's room, and talked with him about business—we had no refreshment there—I had one pint of beer at the Three Nuns—I was as sober as I am now—I staid at Mr. Poynter's till between twelve and one—I then went to the Three Nuns—I did not see any one there that I knew—the Bull is only a few doors from the Three Nuns—there were no girls in the yard—I found the house-door bolted—the house may bete: or a dozen doors up the yard—Niles came up to me in the yard—I thought she might be one of the persons belonging to the house—I saw only hermy money was in this purse, or bag—she emptied out the money, and I saw her put the bag back again into my pocket—there was nothing left in the bag when it was returned—there had been four sovereigns and some silver; I do not know what—there were not five sovereigns—I had changed a 10l. note in coming up—I had some silver in my pocket when I got change—I paid the fare for the beasts and myself out of the note—no person went with me from Mr. Poynter's—he lives in High-street, Whitechapel—I never saw him go out—I heard the clock go twelve when I went into the yard of the Three Nuns—I do not know where I saw Buck when I identified him—I know but little about London—I think it was about three o'clock when I go". back to Mr. Poynter's—it was before three when I had seen Buck—I did not see him again till I saw him at the Mansion-house, on Saturday morning, about seven—I had noticed his features, and the woman's too—Buck had a darkish cap on, with a peak to it—his coat was dark—it was black, I suppose.
MR. BRIARLY. Q. You brought the beasts yourself? A. Yes, to Mr. Poynter's, a meat-salesman—I always take them to him to kill—I gave a description of the prisoners to the policeman, and I went with him—weiren. to several coffee-houses and beer-shops—Niles was with a large party of twenty or thirty—Buck was not with her—they were taken at separate places—I was neither drunk nor asleep at the time I lost my money.
CHARLES PIERCY . (City-policeman, 659.) I was on duty at one o'clock, or a little before, in Aldgate High-street—the prosecutor came to me, and told me he had been robbed, between twelve and one, by a woman in a white shawl and a white straw bonnet—I went with him to several coffee-shops, and to one called the Magnet—I found Niles there, about half-past one—the prosecutor at once recognized her as the person—she had a white shawl and a white bonnet—he said the man had a blouse on, and a cap with a peak—I took Niles to the station—nothing was found on her—the prosecutor appeared to be sober.
THOMAS KELLY . (police-sergeant, H 2.) On Saturday morning, 24th June, about three o'clock, there was a disturbance at the Red Lion, in Whitechapel—I went there, and as soon as Buck saw me going in he ran out—I suspected something wrong, pursued and took him into custody—I asked what he had got—he said, "Nothing"—I searched him, and found two sovereigns and a half—I took him to the station—the prosecutor came there and identified him, a few minutes afterwards—he had on a light cap, which I think had a peak—I think he had the same coat on that he has now—the prosecutor bad given a description that answered with Buck's person, but he had altered his dress—he said it was a blouse or a light coat—they are easily got in Whitechapel, and easily got rid of—Niles was taken in a coffee-house, within about eight yards of where I took Buck.
THOMAS WEAKFORD . (police-sergeant, H 38.) On that Saturday morning I saw Niles going in a direction towards the spot where the robbery was committed, about a quarter of an hour before it took place, and Buck was standing in High-street, Whitechapel—I saw him again, about two o'clock, against the Red Lion, and instantly he saw me he ran in—I saw him again, about a quarter of an hour afterwards, and he ran in again—about three, there was a row there, and we went in, and Buck saw us and ran off.
COURT. Q. What time did you first see Buck? A. About twenty minutes to one o'clock—he and Niles were about thirty or forty yards apart—Buck was standing, and Niles was going in the direction to where the prosecutor was robbed—they were from fifty to sixty yards from the Three Nuns—about a quarter of an hour afterwards I walked round, and met the City-policeman and the prosecutor—he gave a description of the man—he said he Was a short, stoutish, good-looking man, with dark hair.
MR. BRIARLY. Q. Did he describe the woman? A. He did not—he accompanied me and the City-policeman to several shops, and to the Magnet, where he saw the woman.
THOMAS KELLY re-examined. The signature to this deposition is the—Magistrate's writing—I was present when he wrote it—I heard the statements made—Niles signed her statement—Buck was asked to sign bis, but would not—(read)—"Niles says, 'At half-past ten o'clock last night, this man was standing in Aldgate; he passed his walking-stick across the legs of a young girl who was with me; I was afterwards talking to some men, and he came, and looked me full in the face—I said, "You go off "—he went off, and afterwards he came to the coffee-house with the policeman, and pointed me out.'"
Niles' Defence. I was standing near the Three Nuns with a young girl; he came to us, and I said, "Go about your business;" he went away; I went to a young man, and asked him to treat me to a glass of grog; I was still walking up and down; I never went away till one o'clock in the morning, when three young men came up; the prosecutor came and looked at me, and I said, "Go away;" the policeman came up, and the prosecutor said, "I
only asked you for a lodging;" I said, "You did not;" I still went about Aldgate; I then went to have a cup of coffee and three eggs, and the prose-cutor and the officer came and took, me; as to this prisoner, I never saw him with my eyes: I am as innocent as a child.
WILLIAM SALTMARSH . I am potman at the Blakeney's Head, in Rose. mary-lane. I recollect Friday night, 23rd June—I saw the prisoner Buck early in the evening, at the Blakeney's Head—he was there before the lights were lighted—we light them sometimes soon and sometimes late—we lighted them that night about half-past eight o'clock—I saw him there about the twilight—he was not indebted to me, nor to my master—he always paid for everything he had—I took him some liquor—he paid for sundry pots of portcr, and some gin—I saw three or four sovereigns in his hand—I asked him to leave it with me, and I would take care of it.
COURT. Q. Have you ever asked him that question before? A. I recollect one time when he went away from our place he lost it, and that made me ask him that question, for fear he should lose it again—he had three or four sovereigns, and some silver—I cannot tell why the money was produced to me—I see many men come into the public-house, flourishing their money, to show what they have got—I do not know that he was flourishing his money—I saw it.
Cross-examined by MR. BRIARLY. Q. What time was it he showed you these sovereigns? A. I dare sav it was between eight and nine o'clockour house is pretty well attended by neighbours—I do not know the prisoner, only as a customer—I do not know any thing of him—I do not take notice of one more than another—I know them all—thieves do not resort there, to my knowledge—I know the persons who come there as well as I know this man, as customers—I have asked to take care of other customers' money, but they are so conceited when they get a little drink, they will drink and booze it away.
MR. THOMPSON. Q. Do you know whether it is the practice of persons who frequent public-houses to leave money in the hands of the barman, or the persons who keep the house? A. Yes; I have had the care of it.
FRANCES M'DONALD . My husband keeps the Windmill, in Rosemary-lane. On the morning of 24th June I saw the prisoner Buck, a little after three o'clock—it might be ten minutes or a quarter-past three—that was not the first time I saw him—I saw him between ten and eleven in the evening, and he never left my house from that time till I told him I was going to shut up the house—I ordered him out, and he went out—he was asleep most of the time.
Cross-examined. Q. What time did he leave you? A. A little after three o'clock—there were persons in the house, and I did not wish to tun them out—ours is a night-house—I do not take notice of all the persons who come there, or know their character—I might know the neighbours—I do not know how. the persons who come there get their living—if they come, and call fur anything. I serve them and take their money—infamous charac-ters may resort to my house, but not to my knowledge—I do not inquire into persons' characters who conic and ask for anything—I might hear one thing or another, but I believe, if you inquire, you will find the house is con-ducted in a proper manner—I cannot be mistaken about the prisoner being there—he slept from between ten and eleven o'clock till past three—he was
awoke up twice by parties who came in, and be gave them something to drink—the parties brought the money to me, but he fell asleep again—I had company during; that time, but no disturbance; they were very quiet—the prisoner was on a form right opposite the bar where I stood.
COURT. Q. Was anybody else in the house? A. Yes, several persons; and of course I was not going to shut it up—there was no person serving but myself—my husband was ill in bed—there was a servant—I sent her to bed, because she had to get up early in the morning—there was a girl outside the bar—she is not here—there is no person here who saw the prisoner there from ten o'clock till three in the morning—there was a gentleman who saw him go in, but that gentleman went away at eleven.
MR. BRIARLY called
PATRICK MADDEN (policeman, H 160.) I know the Blakeney's Head—the tap-room is frequented by thieves and prostitutes, and has been for some time—on Friday night, 23rd June, I saw the prisoner Buck about ten o'clock—he came out of the City of Carlisle, in Royal Mint-street, which was formerly called Rosemary-lane—I saw him again about a quarter-past twelve, in Royal Mint-street, in company with others—he was not on a bench, he was in the open street—I did not see him from that time till I saw him here.
COURT. Q. Was anybody with you, that saw him at the same time? A. There was not—if anybody has said he was sleeping on the form, except when he got up to treat people, it is not true—I saw him in the street—that is not more than a quarter of a mile from the Bull—there is a gas-light at the Ball I believe—I could not say that I know the exact spot where the robbery took place—I know the gateway—you can see people's faces by the light of the gateway.
MR. THOMPSON. Q. Where is the Bull? A. In Aldgate—I do not think it is a quarter of a mile from Rosemary-lane—I was first applied to to give my evidence on the morning the prisoner was locked up—I said I saw him about a quarter-past twelve—the City of Carlisle is a very short distance from the Windmill—it may be twelve or fourteen doors—I swear I saw him in company with some persons about a quarter-past twelve o'clock—I cannot say how many—I can identify some of them—there was M'Lean, Mahoney, and Bradshaw—as soon as I came up they all went away in the direction of Tower-hill—I have never given my evidence before on this occasion—Sergeant Kelly subpoenaed me—I had some conversation with him on the morning he took the prisoner into custody—he told me he had him, and I told him I saw him a little after twelve o'clock in Royal Mint-street—he was in a black coat—I do not know whether he had been drinking—I did not see him.
COURT. Q. Did you accost him? A. I did not—I said, "Go along; you must not continue here."
COURT to Charles Piercy. Q. Are you acquainted with the Bull Inn? A. Yes; it is lighted with a large gas-lamp over the gateway—the prosecutor told me he lost his money up by the gate—there is light there, so that anybody could see the face of another.
Cross-examined by MR. THOMPSON. Q. Are the gates shut? A. Yes; at eleven o'clock, I believe—there are two sinks in the yard—the lamp is over the gates that lead up to the stable—the gates were closed—you cannot get inside—there is a watchman there—I did not go to view the Bull yard gateway—he told me he was robbed there—there is a yard and two or three houses before you come to the gates.
COURT. Q. If a person bad been robbed near the gateway, there would be plenty of light to see the person? A. Yes.
NILES— GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Six Months.
BUCK— GUILTY . ** Aged 26.— Transported for Ten Years, The prisoner Buck's brother and sister-in-law stated that he had been. honestly employed since his former conviction; but several officers deposed to ins being the constant associate of thieves.
THOMAS KELLY (police-sergeant, H 24.) On the 20th June I saw the pri-sorter at a marine-store shop, in Royal Mint-street, about one o'clock—he had these ropes folded up—I followed him into the shop, and asked how he became possessed of them—he said it was all right, they were his father's—I took him into custody, and on the way to the station-house he said there was a wagon standing near the Cock and Lion, near the Tower, and he saw two boys take out the ropes and go away with them; that he went up and said they were his, and asked them for them, and they gave them to him.
MOSES MARSH . I am in the employ of William James Chaplin and Benjamin Worthy Home—they are carriers—these ropes belonged to me while I had the wagon—they were under the tarpaulin to bind the load on—I missed them as I was going from St. Katherine's Docks to the London Docks.
JACOB VANDENBERG . I am a marine-store dealer. The prisoner came and offered this rope at my shop, 14, Sparrow-corner—I refused to buy it—he took it away, and was taken with it in another shop close by.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined One Month.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ELIZABETH WEBB . I am the wife of John Webb, of Park-road Dalston. The prisoner was employed by me as a charwoman, for the last three or four months—I lost four spoons, some knife-rests, and a broken silver table-spoon, from the kitchen—I did not suspect her—about a fortnight before I went before the Magistrate I said to her, "I have lost four silver teaspoons"—she said, "Indeed, who do you think has taken them?—I said I was not aware—I was in the habit of giving her washing to do—on 16th June she was given into custody—these are the teaspoons I missed, and this towel also—I never permitted the prisoner to take them.
Cross-examined by MR. CHARNOCK. Q. Is the towel marked? A. The mark has been taken out—I missed several towels at different times—I cannot tell when I missed this one—I missed the spoons on 9th May—this is not a towel I gave her out to wash—she washed such things as these at out house—she worked for me eighteen months—she is married, and has a family—up to this time I had a good opinion of her.
JOHN WEBB . On 16th June, after I had made a great deal of inquiry about this property, I went with Smith, the officer, to the prisoner's house in Shacklewell—I asked whether she had ever received, or taken anything any occasion, from my house, but what had been given her by Mrs. Webb—she positively denied that she had ever received anything from the house
with the exception of those things that Mrs. Webb bad given her—I questioned her whether she had been recently to the house, and taken tea in the kitchen—she denied that she had been there—the officer then asked whether she had taken any silver spoons, and pawned them at Mr. Burgess's—she denied it at first—she then said one was taken with some dripping, and the others were taken at different times; that she kept them till she got the whole four, and then pawned them at Mr. Burgess's—she was asked for the duplicates—she opened a caddy, and gave them out—here is the one that applies to these spoons—this towel was found at Mr. Burgess's, and two shawls wrapped in it—she was asked if she had taken a broken table-spoon out of the caddy in the kitchen—she said, "No"—she then said she had, and sold it to a Jew for 1s.—it has not been found.
FRANCIS MILES LINTON . I was assistant to Mr. Burgess, a pawnbroker. On 25th April I took in these four spoons in pledge—this is the duplicate relating to them—I believe they were pawned by the prisoner in the name of "Ann Rice, Shacklewell"—I took in two shawls of the same person, on the same day, wrapped in this towel.
Cross-examined. Q. I suppose you do not swear to her as being the person? A. I believe it to be her from the name put on the duplicate, she always pawned in that name.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 35.— Confined One Month .
MR. THOMPSON conducted the Prosecution.
SARAH DIXON TREVOR . I live in Alpha-road, St. John's-wood. The prisoner was in my service four months—during that time I missed a table-doth and a teaspoon—I inquired of her about them—she said she had not seen them—this spoon is mine, and this is my table-cloth, here is my name on it; and I missed a pepper-box about the same size as this.
ELIZA GOLDING . I was servant at Mrs. Trevor's at the time the prisoner was—I had the custody of the silver and the linen—this pillow-case belongs to my mistress—this spoon was missed on 13th June—I cannot say when the pillow-case was missed—the table-cloth was missed about two months before the prisoner left—inquiries were made for the table-cloth and spoon.
CHARLES CHINN (policeman, R 63.) The prisoner gave her address at the station, as "18, David-street, New-road," and gave the name of Miss Graham, as the person who kept the room she was lodging at—I went there, and Miss Graham showed me the prisoner's box—I found nothing in it, but in the basket I found these two pairs of scissors and this pepper-box.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY. Aged 23.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined One Month.
ROBERT FLOOK . I live in Tothill-street, Westminster. On 10th June I saw the prisoner and another boy in Tothill-street—I saw the other take a candlestick from Mr. Phillips's shop, and hand it to the prisoner, and they ran up Tothill-street, and down Dean-street, before I could get up to then—I lost sight of them in Dean-street—I did not see the prisoner again till 16th June, when he was in custody—I have known him for the last twelve months.
Prisoner's Defence. I was at home at the time; I have no mother, and my father cannot leave his work.
WILLIAM MILLERMAN (policeman, B 95.) I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction at Clerkenwell—(read—Convicted 26th Sept., 1847; confined three months)—the prisoner is the person—he has been in custody since that.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Six Months and Whipped.
RICHARD LUCAS . I live in Sugar Loaf-court, Tower-street. On 25th June I lost an over-coat, two pairs of trowsers, a black satin waistcoat, and some other things; a half-sovereign, a silver sixpence, and 2s. worth of coppers—they were my property—I am married—I also lost a silver watch and a velvet waistcoat—I have one room on the first floor, and one on the second floor—the prisoner lodged in a room on the first floor, with his father—all the things were safe at a quarter-past four o'clock, when we went out—we came back at a quarter-past eight—we locked our door when we went out, and it was locked when we came back.
Prisoner. She had seen me with it on two months ago. Witness. I never saw him with it—here is a button that was on it which my husband lost.
WILLIAM ALDRIDGE . I am a brewer's servant. The prisoner is ray son—he lived with me, in the same house with the prosecutor—on the Monday after the robbery I was looking over his things, and I found this waistcoat on a chair—Mrs. Lucas said she could swear to it, and it was taken to the station—I cannot say how long my son has had it.
RUBECCA LOWTON . I am the wife of George Lowton, of 3, Little College-street. On 25th June, about half-past five o'clock, I saw the prisoner in company with a man named Godfrey—they went to a public-house—Godfrey went in, and the prisoner went up the court—Godfrey came out with a pot of beer, and the prisoner came and drank part of it—they both went up Sugar-loaf-court—when they came back the prisoner was dressed in a different suit, a dark suit; and Godfrey followed him, with a large bundle tied up in a handkerchief—the prisoner crossed the road, and Godfrey followed—they went towards London-bridge—I did not see the prisoner again till he was in custody.
Prisoner's Defence. When Lowton saw me at the end of the court at the
time that Godfrey was there, I put on my clean shirt, but I did not change my clothes; I deny having a bundle; I bought this waistcoat down in Petticoat-lane two months ago; I gave 2s. for it; there were three or four more with me at the time I bought it; I wrote for my witnesses to come, but they could not: there is sometimes a dozen of us go down to Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning; we have no time on week-days.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined One Year .
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN GEORGE . I am gate-keeper at the London Docks. Last Saturday I stopped the prisoner, and asked what he had got—I felt this iron driver in his coat-pocket—it has the mark of the London Dock on it—I asked how he came by it—he said he did not know—he was not very sober.
Prisoner. I put my jacket on the window-cill; when I went to it at night, it was taken down, and put on some casks; I had about a pound of bad in the pocket of it, or I should have felt the weight of this iron. Witness. He had about two ounces of bread in a different pocket.
NOT GUILTY .
THIRD COURT.—Thursday, July 6th, 1848.
PRESENT—Sir WILLIAM MAGNAY, Bart., Ald.; Mr. Ald. SALOMONS; and EDWARD BULLOCK, Esq. Before Edwards Bullock, Esq., and the Second Jury.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM GEORGE CLUFF . I am a son of William Cluff—my grandfather was an Irishman—I have lived at Spitalfields eight or nine years—some bills were circulated on 17th May, after which this pamphlet (produced) was published—the circumstances related in it are supposed to have occurred twenty-four or twenty-five years ago—I bought it on 29th May of the prisoner, about a quarter-past eleven o'clock, in Elm-street—he had a large bundle of them under his arm—he was not making any noise—I supposed he had got a bundle of these books, and said, "What have you got there?"—he said, "A lot of 'A Tale of the Nineteenth Century; or, Paddy Cluff'"—I said, "What is your name?"—he said, "Daniel Rush"—I said, "That is a most wicked and malicious libel on the character of my father; it contains not a; word of truth; I caution you that you will get yourself into trouble"—he said "I don't mind what you say; your name is Cluff, and I know all about what is in the book; I know your father very well, it don't mean him"—he Pointed out that it was "Cluffe"—he passed on—I saw him stop two men at
the bottom of the street, and exhibit the books—they did not buy any—I went to the station and told a policeman, and went home—in five or ten minutes I saw the prisoner, and a man who I understood was the another coming out of a house, with the books—I called him over, and said, "How many have you sold?"—the other man said, "Answer the fellow no questions"—I bought a book—a mob assembled, who called me "Paddy Cluffs. son," and asked how I liked it—I have been subject to great annoyance—I bought two or three books on the Thursday, after giving him the caution.
WILLIAM CLUFF . I am a silk-manufacturer, and the person alluded in this pamphlet—I have found it a serious annoyance—there is not a word of truth in it—(The pamphlet was entitled, A Tale of the Nineteenth Century: Paddy Cluffe; or, The Bane of Commerce, and the Weaver's Curse: and stated that he kept a dolly-shop, which was the fruitful source of poverty and crime; and that he had perpetrated the foulest wrongs.)
Prisoner's Defence. I sell things in the street; a man asked me to sell the books, and went with me to show me where they had ordered them; I have known Mr. Cluff many years; his name is not spelt Cluffe, and I never knew they meant him, and did not consider there was any harm.
GUILTY . Aged 68.— Confined Two Months .
JAMES DOW . I came from the East Indies, in the True Briton, as butcher. I had some sheep-skins in it in the East India Dock.—I was alongside the ship on 26th June, between eleven and twelve o'clock, the prisoner came alongside, I had never seen him before—he made an arrangement for the sheep-skins for 30s. if they pleased him, and he was to take them, and meet me at the Prince of Wales, at the Export Dock—I gave a pass for them, and asked him for 10s.—a man by him said, "Don't give him that"—I said "Let me have 5s."—he gave me half-a-crown—I went away and waited three or four hours at the Prince of Wales, but never saw the prisoner—I found the skins were gone, and four or five days afterwards saw the prisoner and two others alongside the ship taking out some bottles—I said, "You had better pay me for the skins, and not get yourself in trouble"—he said they were paid for, that Rouse had given me a sovereign.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. Who did you give the pass to? A. The carter.
JOHN CRABB . I heard the bargain about the skins, and being a carman asked for the job—Dow gave it me—he was to go to a public-house till they got the skins out, and they were to come to him—we got the skins into the cart, got in, and all three went to Aldgate—they could not sell the wool there and went to Spitalfields—when the skins were sold, I drove them back to Limehouse to a beer-shop, and they gave me 4s.—we did not go to the Prince of Wales.
Cross-examined. Q. What time did you start? A. About three o'clock—it was six when we got back—they said they got 15s. for the skins—the—wool was not sold—the "ate we went out at was the nearest to the ship, not the Export gate.
THOMAS BAILEY . I was with Dow at the ship. The prisoner met him, and said, "I think you have some skins for sale"—he said, "I will take 30s. for them; if they please you take them, if not, leave them where they are"—Dow gave him a pass, and asked for 10s.—Day said, "No, not till I see the goods"—he said, "Will you lend me half-a-crown?"—Day gave it to
him—Dow said, "I shall go to the Prince of Wales, and you come and pay me if they suit you, if not leave them in the ship"—he waited three hours, and I four hours—I did not go to the ship.
NOT GUILTY .
LAWRENCE EMANUEL . I am an ironmonger, in Gee's-court, Oxford-street. The prisoner came to my shop, and asked me if I should like to go to the Opera—I said, "Yes"—he said, "I will get you an order for the pit"—I said, "If you do I will give you 5s."—in a few hours he brought me this order (produced)—I said, "Where did you get it?"—he said, "From the sub-Editor of the Morning Herald"—I said, "Are you acquainted with him?"—he said, "No," but he passed his friends into the private box of the Olympic Theatre—I gave him 5s., and presented the order at the Italian Opera—they would not let me in.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. How long have you known the prisoner A. Five or six months—his father has been very respectable—I believe poverty has caused this.
GUILTY, strongly recommended to mercy . Aged 19.— Confined Seven Days .
GUILTY on 2nd and 3rd Counts. Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months .
GUILTY of an Assault . Aged 27.— Confined Three Months .
OLD COURT.—Friday, July 7th, 1848.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Justice WILDE; Sir GEORGE CARROLL, Knt. Ald.; Mr. Ald FINNIS; MR. Ald LAWRENCE; and EDWARD BULLOCK, Esq.
Before Edward Bullock, Esq., and the Third Jury.
JOHN CALNAN . I am a labourer. On the night of 28th June, I was in the Back-road, Wapping—there were some girls there, and several people quarrelling in the road—I heard a scream, looked back, and saw a man hit a female on the head, and knock her against the paling—before I could get there she received a second blow—I caught the man by the collar, and asked' why he knocked her about—he did not answer—another man struck me—I looked round, and was struck again by another—there was a great mob—I was knocked down in the road—my hat fell off, I got up, and ran after Joseph Bryan; James Bryan tripped me up on my face and hands, and Joseph ran at me as I got up, and stabbed me in the inside of my arm—it bled very much—I gave him in charge.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBINSON. Q. Who were the two Young ladies with you? A. One was Margaret Gearing—she was a stranger to me have known the other about three months—she is an unfortunate girl—I had been in their company three hours—we had three glasses of gin and water drank about a wine glass and a half of it—I was quite sober—I parted with the women just when the row took place—I knew three or four people in the crowd—I won't swear I did not know a dozen—I cannot swear it was not one of the prisoners I took by the collar, as I was surrounded by so many—I made the best of my way through the crowd—I cannot say how many people I knocked down—I swear my hand was not in the pocket of one of the prisoners—I did not take his hat—I have never been in a Court before—I do not know a person named Shanahan—I was not struggling with Joseph when I was cut—he ran across the street at me, and I retreated half a step—the-knife was not found—I collared the man who struck the female, whether it was one of the prisoners I do not know.
MARGARET GEARING . I and Ann Sullivan had been with Calnan on the morning of 28th—we parted with him—Sullivan spoke to the prisoner, James—he struck her—I called to Calnan, who collared him—James threw him down, and when he was down Joseph struck him, and asked James if he had a weapon—James said he had nothing but a knife—I saw no knife passed, but Joseph took a black-handled knife with four white spots out of his pocket and stabbed Calnan—he bled very much—I called "Murder!"
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known Sullivan? A. Three weeks—she is an unfortunate girl—my husband is a costermonger—I was not drunk—Sullivan said to James, "Well, my dear," and caught hold of his arm—I was close by her—I do not know where she lives—Calnan did not strike any one till James threw him down; they then struck one another—it was under a lamp—this took about half an hour—I cannot say whether any one else struck a blow—I will not undertake to say there was not a general fight—Calnan was on the pavement when the man came up with the knife—I had known him about three weeks—I have been in his company about twice with Sullivan.
EDWARD CASSIDAY (policeman, K 238.) I heard screams in Back-lane, St. George's, and went up, and saw Calnan standing in the road, surrounded by two or three people, bleeding profusely from the finger—he gave the prisoners in charge—Joseph was on the other side of the road—a woman had hold of him—I told him what I took him for—he said he knew nothing about it, he did not do it; that he had no knife.
Cross-examined. Q. They both denied stabbing him, or having any knife. A. Yes.
ROBERT BENJAMIN HOWLETT . I am a surgeon, at Arbour-terrace, Commercial-road. I examined Calnan, and found a stab on the fleshy part of the fore-arm, about an inch deep, and three-quarters of an inch wide—a pointed knife would have done it—it was a dangerous wound; erysipelas might have come on.
MR. ROBINSON called
JEREMIAH BRYAN . I am the prisoner's brother, and am sixteen years old I have a brother-in-law named Shanahan—he had come home from sea on this night—I was with bin, and his sister, Mary Kidney, and my mother, and Catherine Sullivan—Shanahan had had too much drink—we were taking him home; we met two men, and one or two women—I heard some one crying—my brother went to see what was the matter—Calnan had got my brother down, and had one hand on his throat, and his left hand in his pocket;—Calnan
knocked me down, and would not let me go, and I took out a little knife, and hit him in the hand.
MARY KIDNEY . I live near the prisoners. I went to a public-house with Shanahan and his wife, and mother—he took a little too much; we were taking him home, and met Calnan and two girls—they seemed sober—one of the women knocked Ellen Bryan down—Jeremiah Bryan came to see what was the matter—Calnan came and knocked Joseph down, and kicked him when he was down, and put one hand in his trowser's-pocket, and the other on his throat, and his knees on his chest—Jeremiah took out a knife to relieve Calnan's hand from his brother's throat—this lasted about ten minutes—I called out "Murder! police!"—Joseph ran across the road, and Calnan hit him in the eye and knocked him down—the police came, and I gave Calnan in charge—the prisoners are steady lads, and bear very good characters.
CATHERINE SHANAHAN . I am the wife of a sailor. I was going home with him in the middle of the road—Ellen Bryan was on the pavement—a young woman threw her down—James Bryan told my husband to make peace, and Calnan got him by the throat, put his knees on his body, and kicked him, then left him, and knocked me down, kicked me, and cut my tongue, and then went and knelt on my husband again—I saw nothing tappen to him while kneeling on him—I fell twice.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Lord Chief Justice Wilde.
(The ATTORNEY-GENERAL entered a noli prosequi with respect to this indictment.)
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL, MESSRS. WELSBY, BODKIN, and CLERK, conducted the Prosecution.
HENRY JOHN DOOGOOD . I am a short-hand writer. I attended a meeting held in Bishop Bonner's-fields on Sunday afternoon, 4th June—I should think the meeting consisted of from five to seven thousand, as near as I could judge—it commenced shortly after three o'clock—the meeting was addressed by several persons from a natural mound on the Common—I saw a person there whose name I think is Curtain, who acted as chairman—a person named Henry Jones addressed the meeting—I took a short-hand note of his speech—I have not read it since the meeting—this is a transcript of it—I have compared it with my notes.
MR. SERJEANT WILKINS. Q. Can you read your own notes? A. Yes—this was copied by my clerk—I have not got my notes of Jones's speech here—I have my notes of Sharpe's speech—my notes of Jones's speech are at my office—(the witness was directed to send for them)—Mr. White also took the speech—I dare say he has his notes here—I had to write on my hand, standing, and was very much pushed about at the time—I can swear that this is a correct copy of my notes of Henry Jones's speech, because I examined it myself.
MR. WELSBY. Q. Did Sharpe follow Henry Jones? A. Yes—I have the original notes of that, and also the transcript here—I have compared the transcript with my notes (reading from his notes)—Sharpe said, "You still find that I am here to-day to give the lie to the Times, when I tell them I am always prepared to attend public meetings, to perform my duty. The Times newspaper seems to chuckle because I was not on Clerkenwell-green last Monday night. If I could have divided myself I should have been there, and likewise at a large and enthusiastic meeting at Greenwich; but it was impossible, if I had divided myself, that I could enjoy the liberty of speech, and therefore I was obliged to be at Greenwich; and that accounts for my absence from Clerkenwell-green. The gentleman who preceded me has stated that the English and Irish would continue in unity. I beg to state, that ever since the English working man has understood the oppression he labours under, and ever since the Irish peasant has known the degradation he suffered, I must declare here they have always been in unity; and by remaining in unity they are determined to destroy the power of the base bloody, brutal, and tyrannical Government. I am convinced that the English and Irish are in unity, and the interest of one is identified with the interest of the other; and if you recollect (those who were here on last Sunday afe-noon) I proposed a resolution bearing on the very subject. I spoke at great length concerning the prosecution of John Mitchell, and I believe I was not at all merciful in dealing out my remarks to those bloody government that rules the country at the present time; and as far as my abilities would admit I lashed them as well as I could; and I am here to-day to speak briefly is seconding this resolution, because you will all understand that our meeting—that is, the Chartist meeting with which I am connected, will commence at five o'clock, and then I shall be prepared to tell the Government such a tale, not at all novel perhaps; but although it may be a repetition of the tale, and if the Government consider that I tell it too often, they will not stop my mouth by confining me in prison; for I will be equally as dangerous there, if I can have any communication with my fellow-prisoners; for I am sure to teach my doctrines wherever I go. I will contaminate every man I come in contact with, and I will tell every man, that the destruction of this Government is essentially necessary for the well-being of society; we are all working-men, we support the Government, the Church and State and pay twenty-eight millions per annum for the interest of the national debt; now, we knowing, that the source of all wealth comes from the toil of the working-man, we, as working-men, have a right to look at the system of Government; we have a right to look how the machinery is set to work, and if there is anything out of order in that machinery; we, as good mechanics, artizans, and mechanics, have a right to put it in order, and I think the union of the Irishmen and Englishmen will be so consolidated, that ere long, the Government will tremble at their power. Permit me to make a few remarks with respect to the meetings which have taken place during the last week; I have no doubt many of you, who were at those meetings and many who were absent,—you have feelings alike with us, and are somewhat interested, and you are somewhat excited, and want to know, during this period of excitement, the actual position in which you are placeu. Permit me to endeavour to show you: you will recollect, but a very few nights buck, Lord John Russell made a'declaration in the House of Commons, that the working-classes of England were not desirous of reform—(A Voice: He is a liar)—when he made that declaration he told an abominable lie; but it is not unusual for Lord John Russell to tell lies; he is the greatest
scoundrel that ever sat in the House of commons; he ought to be transported. He has transported John Mitchell for recommending that which he recommended prior to the passing of the Reform Bill—what was the deleration of Lord John Rusell? He said, "If they do not concede reform, I will be the colonel of the yeomanry, and the yeomanry shall lead the people; and their combined power shall destroy the aristocracy." These are Lord John Russell's own words; and if he was justified in 1829, and 1830, in making use of such expressions, I have a right, as a working-man, to recommend people to resort to ulterior measures, which are calculated to proscribe this damnable power with which the Government rules the country. Permit me to say, with respect to the meetings on Monday evening, there is not one person who attended the meeting, on Stepney-green and Clerkenwell-green, who was aware that a procession would take place; it was only known among those men who could be trusted"—here a cry of "Police"was raised, and several persons ran away—the speaker then proceeded to say "Gentleman, is this way you wish to display you patriotism; is at because a few idle boys, or some scoundrel connected with Government, raise the cry of 'Police!' that you must run away across the fields like a number of scared rats. I am ashamed of you. It is not you who will be injured, it is those men who have the hardihood to come forward and address such meetings in the time, of danger, and these are the men that the Government want to entrap, and these are the men who are prepared for any circumstances that may arise, these men feeling assured, that if the Government are inclined to imprison them, there are other men willing and prepared to take their places; as the people should always be taught the injuries they labour under, and the best method of destrouying the power that oppresses them With regard to the procession that took place on Monday evening, the Times newspaper said it was 10, 000 but you are aware that that night there were not less than 150, 000 individuals who composed that procession; and said our only idea and intention the papers have called us destructives, and said our only idea and intention was to make confusion and riot; not proved that working-men, when they have a demonstration are determind to show the Government that they are desirous to respect porperty, and only disrespect the power which causes their degradation"—I have the word "causes," not "seeks"—my note is very distinct—I so understood the speaker—" I heard that when about twelve o'clock 6, 000 individuals met in Redcross-street, and a friend of mine addressed them from a window, about 100 policeman, with truncheons ready for action, dispersed this body of people in about seven or eight minutes, and he says he saw when the mob was dispersed, he looked about, and saw twenty or thirdy individuals"—I have it in my notes, (the transcript was "seven or eight individuals, ") the words, "seven or eight minutes" occurred just before, that accounts for the mistake-" who were scarcely able to move on account of the severe knocking about they had received from the police; I was not there, and I mean what I say; and as you have listened to me Sunday after Sunday, you must be aware of the fact, that if I had been placed in that situation, I would have recommended the mass of people to make an opening admitted them all, and have enclosed them all; and if they had done, as I would have done, very few of them would have come out"—it is not "should have come out"—" but this brutal and bloody force, when they find the people meet unarmed, are ready to take advantage; but the time (not "day") is fast approaching, when it may be necessary for that force to beg mercy from the hands of the people, and I hope they will then be as generous with their mercy towards.
them as they have been towards us. Now, my friends, the Government was completely paralysed; the Government was not aware of such a demonstration; and one of the liberal members of the Parliament met with no less a personage than one of the executive, (I have no occasion to mention his name,) and he says, 'Good God, Mr.----, what was that procession about last night?' He said, 'Had you surrounded the House of Commons, we must have been compelled to run from it.' When this was told me, I very much regretted that I was at Greenwich, instead of being amons you; for had I been amongst you, I would have been the man to say, 'Come, and surround the House of Commons, not to injure any of the members, but to convince them that we are desirous of reform.' With respect to the meeting, on Tuesday night, I was disengaged, and wished to give the lie to the Times; and after hearing of the brutality exercised towards the people, I went to Clerkenwell-green. and was the second man to address that large concourse of people; and when I got up, so the Times reports, I spoke openly and advisedly, and likewise I begged the people, who were listening to me; that if thev did not understand they would please to imagine, I will tell you precisely what I said, and I spoke in particular with regard to the brutality of the police on the previous night; and I showed the policemen that they placed themselves in a false position; and I told the people then, if I had been with them on the previous night, I would have recommended them to act on the defensive; this was my recommendation then, and this is my recommendation now. I would not recommend any man to strike or insult a policeman, but if they strike or insult you, if there are not stones, there are better and more formidable weapons. You will often find about the streets of London plenty of railings before the houses; let every man only—when necessary grasp one, and all pull together, and you have then got a weapon better than any policeman's truncheon—it will take a policeman five or six times to strike a man before he quiets him with his truncheon: but only strike a policeman once with such a weapon as I have recommended, and you will soon silence him. This is my recommendation only when it is necessary. I would not recommend you to do so now, there is no occasion;" (the words are not "it is not necessary.") "although we have policemen and soldiers in the neighbourhood, for a peaceable meeting of this kind does not require their interference, they will not come out now. You must excuse me addressing you any longer, I commence again at five o'clock, and I shall be prepared then to give the Government a good horsewhipping; but I hope you will remain here till the other meeting begins; and what with the power we have now, and the power to come up, it will be the largest meeting I ever saw in Bishop Bonner's-fields; and the public mind is so excited, "that I believe Sunday after Sunday the meetings will increase. What power can prevent men from meeting and discussing their grievances. The day is too far gone when the sight of a policeman's truncheon, or a soldier dressed in a scarlet jacket, will stop the mouths of the working-classes. The resolution I most cordially second, believing every one of you sympathise with that man as much as I do myself; and in the wording of the resolution, he has committed no crime, but only taught the people their duty: he gave them such political instruction, as was essentially necessary for the Irish people to establish their independence; and I enjoin; all men, all Englishmen and Scotchmen, as well as Irishmen, to raise the cry "—then the prisoner recited two or three lines of verse, toe whole of which I did not get—I only took the words, "To raise the cry of brave Ireland shall be free and great."
Q. Did other speakers follow Sharpe? A. Yes, it continued until about five o'clock—I should say the number of persons present increased during that time—the speeches were received with shouts and applause by the meeting.
Q, Did you observe what class of persons the crowd chiefly consisted of? A. There was an admixture of all classes—a great many persons appeared to be dressed in their Sunday clothes, walking about the place, perhaps for their own amusement, and there were many very ill-dressed, those who were principally about the speakers; it was those more immediately about the speakers that applauded—many of them appeared to be Irishmen from their conversation—I remained there till the other meeting that Sharpe referred to, the Chartist meeting, commenced—I heard Sharpe speak at that meeting also—I was not present at the commencement of his speech—Ernest Jones also addressed that meeting—I should Say the numbers had then increased, but not very materially—the first meeting dispersed for some time, perhaps, for about half an hour, and the persons who attended it were scattered about the Common—after that interval the speakers repaired again to the sound for the purpose of addressing the people—Ernest Jones spoke from that mound—he followed Sharpe—I have not got a note of what Sharpe said—I was not there at the commencement of that meeting—I have Jones's speech—Mr. "White took the whole of Sharpe's speech—I did not observe what became of Sharpe during the half-hour—I did not take any notice of him.
Q. Did you remain till the police attempted to disperse the meeting? A. No, I left as soon as the meeting dispersed; it broke up of itself after the address of Mr. Jones—I mean the second meeting which commenced about a quarter to six o'clock.
COURT. Q. You say the meeting broke up of itself? A. Yes, I should say it was shortly before seven o'clock when it dispersed.
MR. WELSBY. Q. When you say that the meeting broke up of itself, what to you mean? A. I mean that the speakers ceased to address the meeting, and walked away from the Common where it was held, and then our duty having terminated, we also left, and all the people left the mound; they left the spot where the meeting was held—there is a Church within sight of Bishop Bonner's-fields, and adjoining them.
Q. Did you observe whether any number of the persons moved towards the Church when the meeting broke up as you have described? A. We were not very far from the Church—I did not pay any particular attention—Mr. White and myself walked away as fast as we could from the meeting—there were a good many persons in that direction when we left the meeting, and there were some observations made about some policemen being in the Church—those observations were made by Henry Jones, and I think by other of the speakers as well, at the first meeting—I recollect Henry Jones at the first meeting saying that the Church was desecrated by being filled with policemen for the purpose of suppressing the meeting, or something to that effect—that was said in Sharpe's presence and hearing.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT WILKINS. Q. At what time of the day were you there first? A. I was there at the commencement of the first meeting, about three o'clock—Mr. White was with me—we were two or three yards from one another—there were persons between us—I should say there were some hundreds of well-dressed females as well as males walking about the Common, and I think there were some children—I did not take particular notice—the speaking began very shortly after three—the persons of whom I have spoken drew near to listen to the speeches—very many of them were
evidently decent people, taking their Sunday walk, and I should fancy had nothing to do with this transaction—there were very few people about the speakers when the meeting first commenced—I think there were from 5, 000 to 7, 000 on the Common altogether—the smaller portion of them were the badly clad—in my opinion, by far the greater portion were persons who were walking about and taking their usual Sunday recreation.
Q. From the time that you were there, until you left in Mr. White's company, was all peaceable and orderly? A. Yes, as far as I saw-—we left the first meeting shortly after five o'clock, and returned again shortly after to the second meeting—at the end of that meeting the people left and dispersed about the Common—the people who attended the second meeting were of just the same class—Mr. White and I walked away directly the speakers had left the mound—there was a room kept for us at the City of Paris Inn, in the neighbourhood, which commanded a view of the Common, and we had borrowed a table and two chairs for the purpose of writing on in the field—we employed some men to take them back, and we went with them—we stayed there nearly an hour—we had a view of the Common from the window of the inn—all was peaceable when we left at the end of the hour, but there had been some disturbance in the interim, I believe; I did not see any—about a quarter of an hour after we left the Common, I heard a great noise and shouting of "Police!" whilst we were at the inn; there was a cry that the police were charging the people—I looked out of the window and saw the police running after the people, who were running away—I did not see them use their truncheons—they had them in their hands—they were at some considerable distance from us—I saw women among the persons who were running away—the police were on the Common, running from the direction of the Church, and about 200 or 300 yards from it.
Q. With reference to the report you have read, did you in the first instance furnish the whole of that report to the solicitor for the Crown? A. Yes—I was standing when I took my report—I had a policeman's back to write upon—there was no pushing to and fro to any great extent—I was protected by three or four policemen, in plain clothes, who stood around me—I went there for the purpose of reporting the meeting for the Crown—in my report I have the words," But this brutal and bloody force, when they find the people meet unarmed, are ready to take advantage; but the time is fast approaching when it may be necessary for that force to beg mercy from the hands of the people."
Q. Now, were not these the words the speaker then used, "And I hope they will then be more generous with their mercy towards them than they have been towards us?" A. I took the words as I heard them and as I have read them—I have no interest in the matter—it is possible I may have mistaken what he said—I may have misunderstood him, it is possible—he also said, "Permit me to say, with respect to the meeting on Monday evening, that there was not one person who attended the meeting on Stepney-green and Clerkenwell-green who was aware that a procession would take place"—I did not hear him add, "It was only known among those men who could be trusted for prudence and love of order"—if I had heard them I should have taken them; and Sharpe is an easy speaker, he spoke rather deliberately than otherwise—there were at times swells in the noise of the people while he was speaking—I would not swear that I took every syllable he uttered—I had often to appeal to the people around me, to enable me to write.
COURT Q. What do you mean by that? A. Why, I was standing writing on a man's back, and occasionally the crowd pressed about me, and I
had not room enough to write conveniently, and I requested them to stand back to relieve me of pressure.
MR. SERJEANT WILKINS. Q. Had you not occasion, as we have sometimes round this table, now and then to say to the people who stood near you, "What was that last sentence; I could not exactly catch what he said?"—A. No; I should not have thought of appealing to the people standing round me—there were policemen there in the service of the Government—I do not recollect doing so at all to them—I am a perfectly disinterested party—I do not remember having appealed to any one—I will not swear I took every syllable, but I did it, to the best of my belief, as well as I could hear, and I stood very near the speakers—it is very possible that when there was a sentence rather piquant, there might be some little applause before it was quite completed—I have been at the opera very frequently when persons have begun to applaud before the finest passages of music are completed—I was on the mound.
JAMES WHITE . I attended this meeting on the part of Government—I got there at five minutes to three o'clock—the chair was taken at twenty-five mintes to four—it was not announced what the meeting was for, and I had no information to that effect—I heard it said there that it was a meeting of Irish confederates on behalf of Mitchell—I did not hear it officially—I heard people talking about it, and I heard it in the chairman's opening—a person named Curtain took the chair—I have got my short-hand notes here of what fee said, but I do not think I can read the first few slips with any degree of accuracy, as I was sitting on the ground, and pushed in all directions at the tine—I will read what I have got—" Ladies and gentlemen,—I am extremely prond of the position you have put me in. We are met here to-day to denounce the cruel, the villanous, and damnable Government, for the attrocious, villanous, and despotic conduct towards our countryman, "or" countrymen, "in Ireland. What have they done to John Mitchell I or what has he done to them? His only crime was, for loving his native land, the land of his forefathers. They have made that an outrage and a crime, and they have packed a Jury by a juggler of a Sheriff, and they have transported him for fourteen years beyond the seas! What for? Because he loved his country. They did not stop there, but they desecrated the home of his wife and six children. When they sentenced him to transportation, they sent a hand of ruffians to his home, and while his wife was standing in her home, bereaving the loss as she stood in the room, the ruffians came in to rob her of whatever little property belonged to her. This was their conduct towards her; and will we Irishmen be silent? Are we not cowards at the present moment to allow it? (Cries of, 'Yes! yes!') We are cowards and slaves; but the day will arrive, and it is not far distant: there are some of the Foigh-a-Ballagh boys" I think it was "in London at present."—I do not know the meaning of that expression. "We have called our countrymen a home cowards, because they have left their native soil; but vengeance is ours, by the Lord!"—as I have got it, but I wish you distinctly to understand that these passages I am now reading I cannot positively swear to, they were taken while I was sitting on the ground, and the people all about me—"This is the last meeting the Irishmen will hold in London or any other place. This is the last meeting of the Irish. If there is any spy of the Government here, let him note that down with pens with sharp points and short holders."—I have got here a note, the mob was running away, and there was very great confusion—I-did not see what occasioned that—there
was a cry of," The police are coming!"—that occurred several times during the meeting, and this was one of those occasions—I did not see any police come—that is all I have got of the chairman's speech—Henry Jones spoke next—I was not better situated for some time—he said, "Gentlemen,—It is my pleasing duty to propose the first resolution in this important meeting; I call it great and important, and I will tell you why; because, by meetings like these we shall convince the Government of this country that the spirit of patriotism among the Englishmen and Irishmen is not dead, it only sleeps"—then there is a word I cannot read, it is obscure—"to give it a glorious resurrection, we wish the Government of this country to know that there is an end to all human endurance; that human struggles may be carried on to a certain pitch and a certain length; but the day must arrive, necessarily arrive, when human endurance can bear that tyranny no longer"—there was then some confusion in the meeting—there was a cry every now and then of "Police!" and people running away—Jones suspended his speech till quiet was restored, and then went on: "Gentlemen,—I call on you, one and all, to pay no attention to either the interruption of any felon in disguise, or to any juvenile little noise; that is unavoidable in all assemblies: I call on you, if you value that liberty of speech, which sooner or later you will know the value of; if you value that liberty of opinion which the Government wish to crush; if you value the noble patriotism of action which, as citizens, you wish to possess; unless we tell the Government we are determined to possess that liberty of speech, they will, by the power of brute force, endeavour to dispossess you of that glorious"—I do not know the word—"of freedom. Gentlemen, recollect this is not a meeting of a sect or of a party; this is a meeting of the English Chartist body, and of the Irish Confederation; Englishmen and Irishmen have all one evil to complain of; it is one tyranny, one despotism, that is sucking the vitals of the people of the two countries: let not Englishmen forget the [blank]; as an Englishman, I solemnly declare that I have no interest in any measure, in any treaty, any public negotiation which the aristocratical Government of this country will make; I have no interest in it. Englishmen, I call on you, as you love your freedom, look at that brave people; they put a man on the throne, having confidence"—I believe he was referring to France—I see that something is omitted by my book—I could not hear—" the fellow violated the confidence that was reposed in him, and that people acted as a noble example, that all people similarly situated ought to follow—to drive a tyrannical Sovereign, wherever or whatever he is, from the throne. Thanks be to God. we have not a tyrannical Sovereign here; we wish no ill to the lady that fills the throne of this country; we have the most unbounded respect for her person; but by all that is good and holy, we will drive into a state of exile, or something else, the Whig ministry, so that they will not have the power of doing----"—I think it is "harm to anybody; I am quite aware of the responsible position I am standing in in the presence of a noble band of patriots, among whom is gathering the scribes, the penners, and myrmidons of the Government; and if I could single out those men, I would ask them to stand by my right-hand, to take a note of every word I say"—I did not write this part out, it is so obscure—" for I wish the executive in Downing-street to know that the day is come when"—then I have a very long blank; I have made a note to that effect; it was caused by confusion of some kind—I was pushed down repeatedly—the next I have is, "I assert this fact, the Union was made for the benefit of the aristocracy"—then I have another blank—the
next words are:" for the Act of Union, Englishmen would get plenty of employment, Irishmen would not"—I think it is—" forsake the different factories of our country; the Irishmen would not be seen at our factories to get work"—then there is another blank, and then I have, "as an Englishman, I stand up amidst this vast body, and I tell the Government of this country; and I tell the detectives here to take it home to their masters, that Englishmen have not any interest in the tyranny that the Government uses towards Ireland; and that Englishmen are determined that they will use their power, hand-in-hand, with the Irish Confederation, and assert that great and glorious principle, that the man who pays taxes has a right to have a voice in the making of those taxes; and the man has a right to have a voice in that representative constituency that makes those laws."
Q. Go on to the end of his speech, and come to the resolution? A. "Gentlemen, this is a resolution which will be seconded by a gentleman well known to you all; I have to apologize to you for the length of time I have kept you, but as I am often before the public, I am quite sure you nil give me absolution for any crime I have committed; 'Resolved, that this meeting is of opinion that the conduct of Government was tyrannical, base, brutal, and even bloody, in transporting John Mitchell for no crime, in Dublin, which, if England was similarly situated to Ireland, would be a patriotic virtue in London'"—I am rather doubtful about the word "patriotic," but I think that is the word—then comes Sharpe—he seconded the resolution; and Looney spoke as follows: "Mr. Chairman and fellow-countrymen; I come here in consequence of hearing that this was to be a great meeting of my countrymen here to-day, to have a look it the spirit that seemed to animate them; this is the first meeting that I ever spoke to in my life; but I am very glad,-as an Irishman, and as a working-man, to be able to follow those two Englishmen who have come forward to bear testimony to the injustice with which my countrymen, and the man who tried to advocate the doing of justice to my country, has been treated by the british government."
Q. just turn back to jone's speech, and see whether in your note of what he said, there is any allusion to the police being in the Church? A. I think I have it; "Behold, even in this very assembly, you may behold every material that forms a natural, well-organized system; you behold a Church consecrated to the service of the Most High, consecrated to the purposes of religion, occupied by men, the myrmidons of Government, who are there not out of any feeling that there will be a riot, the Government know there will not be a riot; but they want, if they can, by the exhibition of characters in police uniform, to frighten you from struggling for your just, constitutional rights; but, Gentlemen, I beg leave to say, as a public man, now is the time that men ought to speak their feelings and their sentiments; I say solemnly, advisedly, and reflectingly, I would sooner follow John Mitchell in his travel to a foreign land, than I would stop in this country with the damning badge of political inferiority stamped on my brow"—Looney spoke after Jones, and O'Manney, or O'Malley, after him; then M'Carthy, and then Henry Jones spoke again—the last speaker finished shortly after five o'clock—the number of persons concentrated round the mound had increased during the speaking—I went away for about twenty minutes, then returned, and took a verbation note of everything that passed at the second meeting—there was no chairman appointed—Mr. Curtain did not remain—I did not see him—Sharpe and Ernest Jones were the only speakers—Sharpe spoke first—I have a note of his speech—that meeting finished at nearly seven—I then left the ground,.
and went with Mr. Doogood to the City of Paris inn, and sat at a window—we could not see the Church from there,—it is about seventy or eighty yards off, but a row of trees interrupts the view—the house is about two hundred yards from the mound—the people began to disperse when the speaking ceased—about a quarter of an hour after we were in the room I heard a noise" and observed the police driving the people before them.
Cross-examined. Q. At what time did you leave that room? A. About a quarter or twenty minutes to eight—I waited till the confusion was over, and when it appeared safe that I should go out—the confusion occupied a very short time, perhaps not more than five or ten minutes—it was all done instantaneously; but I thought it prudent not to go out earlier, fearing I might be mistaken by the police—while I was reporting, I was on the mound—I sat on the chair that the speaker stood on—I did not see Mr. Dogood till the first meeting was over—I did not ascertain from him whereabouts he was located—I was not intentionally interrupted by any of the speakers, or by any of the meeting—I was pushed a good deal—that was the necessary result of being in the mob—it was quite evident that I was there reporting, because I was pointed out to the people by M'Carthy in his speech, who said he was very glad that the Government reporter was present—that was the meeting which began at twenty-five minutes to four, and closed a few minutes after five—I requested the bystanders to keep the chair for me till I returned, and they did so—I was treated with great civility—when the meeting was over the people dispersed—I cannot say that a great many went away entirely—I got on the chair, and looked at the meeting twice—I saw them at one time round the speaker, and once during the time between the two meetings—I think after I returned from a little walk I got on the chair again, and the people fancied I was the speaker, and immediately came round me—the second meeting began at a few minutes to six, by Sharpe standing on a chair and addressing the people—the people then began to collect together again—Sharpe was the only speaker at that second meeting that was present at the first—I think the number of persons dispersed over the Common was about 15, 000—I should think there were about 3000 round the speaker—I think a great many of those were out for their Sunday walk—there were some very well-dressed females, and some very ill-dressed; some of all sorts—there were some of the very poorest and miserable-looking people—after Sharpe had spoken, Ernest Jones spoke—he was not there at the beginning—he came when Sharpe had been speaking about five minutes—Sharpe spoke about twenty minutes, I should think by the quantity—after Ernest Jones had spoken, Sharpe spoke a few words—they both went away, and the people dispersed—there were a great many people selling ginger-beer—I did not see any selling fruit—I have looked my notes over since the meeting, and have compared them with the transcript.
JAMES CASS WALLER (police-inspector K.) I was at Bonner's-fields on 4th June—there was a meeting of the Irish Confederates between three o'clock and half-past, and about five O'clock a meeting of the Chartists—I was stationed with between forty and fifty police, in St. James's Church, about 200 yards from where the meeting was held—the meeting had commenced when I came—I should think there were between 6000 and 7000 people at the Chartist meeting—it appeared to me that the first meeting consisted of the same number—it was one continuous meeting—the last meeting broke up at about half-past six—just about that time I was called out of the Church to speak to one of my superiors, about 100 yards off—I returned immediately, and as I approached the Church I saw stones thrown at the Church windows.
and saw them broken—there were 400 or 500 people there—when I got nearly opposite the Church they recognized me, and cried out, "There is the b----inspector, give it him!"—I was then struck with stones on my head and limbs, and various parts of the body—they fell like hailstones—there were a great number—the stones, then appeared all directed at me—I went in, and heard the Church windows crashing in with the stones—I saw a surgeon there, and he gave me a draught, and told me not to go out again—I was hurt—I went out with the sergeants, and told the mob to disperse; and they discharged another shower of stones at myself and my men, which wounded a sergeant and seven men—I then ordered the men forward to disperse the crowd—they did so after same five or six minutes—the crowd made a very determined resistance—after we had dispersed them, they made a second resistance, by the City of Paris—I then drew my men off with the prisoners into the Church—a body of the mounted police then came with the foot, and they charged the populace to the other end of the field, and dispersed them there.
Cross-examined. Q. Were you in your police costume? A. Yes—there were a great many stones on the ground—the first I saw of the throwing of stones was as I was approaching the Church—they were throwing them in at the Church windows—I do not know what was done before during my absence—at first there were only thirty-six policemen in the Church; at last there were between forty and fifty—I took a few with me, and when I got there I found some more, but what time they went I do not know—I went about half-past three—there was service at the Church that afternoon—the police who were with me walked into the Church during the time of service—there was a thin congregation—the service had been over some short time when the throwing of stones began—I did not hear any of the people exclaim that they had been attacked, and that they would have the fellows out of the Church—I did not hear any exclamation of that sort—it was about twenty minutes to seven when I received the blows—I did not receive one individual blow, but a number.
REV. HENRY PHILIP HORTON . I am the incumbent of St. James's Church, in Victoria-park. On Sunday afternoon, 4th June, I was officiating in my Church—the service commenced at three o'clock—I recollect the inspector, with a certain number of police, coming into the Church during the service—I came out from the Church about half-past four—there were then some thousands of people on the Green—the most part of them were near the Church—my house is very near the Church—I could see the meeting from my house—I saw persons addressing the meeting during the course of the afternoon, or rather in the evening—the speeches concluded about a quarter-past seven—the centre of the meeting then separated, and a great portion of them came towards the Church—the next thing of most importance that I witnessed was the throwing the stones at Mr. Inspector Waller, and the windows of the Church—a great many of the panes were broken—I then saw Inspector Waller go into the churchyard, and the police were brought out from the churchyard—they proceeded to disperse the mob—a great portion of the mob ran away—many of them remained behind, and some of them must have resisted the police—I saw the police issue forth with their truncheons, and I observed the mob dispersing, and the field in great excitement—a portion of the mob continued on the ground—the conflict with the police was at a great distance from me—I saw a great muster of the people at a distance, and the police proceeding against them—they were at too great a distance for me to individualize them—the next thing of importance which I observed was the return of the police with the prisoners.
Q. At the time you saw the persons near your house, or near the Church did you see whether any of them had anything in their hands? A. I did not—I saw stones flying—I saw the police on their return from the mob, but I cannot say that I saw the wounds inflicted—I saw many stones flying from the mob towards the Church and Inspector Waller—I cannot say—whether there were sticks in anybody's hands—I saw persons with sticks in their hands—I saw nothing else in their hands but sticks and stones—the Green had been in a state of most disgraceful excitement after three o'clock—when I say that, I consider more particularly that it was Sunday—there was running to and fro, and shouting, immediately about the Church, when Divine service was proceeding—my congregation was much disturbed, although the service was not interrupted—there were persons addressing the mob in a very vehement manner, as I could observe from the violent action they were using—there had been many previous meetings on that Green upon Sundays—very great alarm was felt in the neighbourhood—I think I saw an iron bar brought back by a policeman, on this Sunday evening, who had taken it from a prisoner; that was at the churchyard—I am not sure that I saw the iron bar; I think I did.
Cross-examined. Q.. When you say that the field was in a most disgraceful state of excitement, I understand you to speak as a minister of religion, having a proper respect for the Sabbath A. More particularly so—I did not see a great deal of that in my neighbourhood before these meetings commenced; I have seen it in other neighbourhoods—I first saw the parties assembled, while I was officiating; through the western door, which was occasionally opened—I saw a large assemblage of persons—very likely a great many of the people were walking about for pleasures—it was as the door opened occasionally that I saw this vehemence of gesticulation of which I have spoken—I came out of the Church between four and half-past—my residence is very Dear the Church—I saw the speakers from my residence, and likewise from the grounds about my house—the Church windows have some panes of glass in lead, what are called casement—about thirty-six panes were broken—there are not many windows at that end of the Church—there are about ten—I was in the churchyard, within a very few yards of Waller, when I saw him go into the churchyard—I was not struck, to my knowledge—the stones were flying about me in great numbers; I cannot say whether I was struck or not.
Q. In what way did the police proceed to disperse the mob? A. They went forth with their truncheons, and ran on to the Green—I could plainly see that—I suppose they used their truncheons; I cannot say that I saw them strike any individual, or that I saw them striking at all—the people fled before them, and the conflict between them and the police was at a great distance—I know there was a conflict because some of the police returned severely wounded—I must have seen the conflict, though I was not able to see it particularly in the detail—I did not see any of the mob strike or attempt to strike the police.
Q. You have told us that some of the police returned wounded; did your Christian charity lead you to inquire whether any of the mob were wounded? A. My Christian charity lead me to use the same compassion towards one of the rioters as I did towards the police—the man who was taken with an iron bar was brought to my house; he was severely wounded on the head—'i cannot say that I saw the iron bar then; I saw it at Worship-street—I believe that man has since been sentenced to two years' imprisonment, with into hard labour—I should say that the sticks I saw the persons with were not ordinary walking sticks; they were of a more rough character—I do not
think there were any women among the mob; there may have been, and I have no doubt there were a great many on the Green at large; but I think not at that portion of the Green where the mob—was especially gathered—I do not recollect having seen many there—I saw many well-dressed women on the Green—I did not offer the vaults of the Church to the police for the locking-up of their prisoners; I permitted the prisoners to be confined in a vault; I gave the keys on application; I did not first of all offer them—I did not say if they wanted the vaults they could have them—I supplied some of the police with refreshment; those who were recommended by the surgeon—to the best of my knowledge it—was between seven and half-past when the speaking ceased—I had ascertained a short time previously that it was seven, but I do not speak at all positively to the time—I did not visit the London. Hospital after this.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. There was only one of the mob that was wounded that came to your house; that was the only one you know of as being wounded? A. The only one—there were four or five policemen at my house, and a surgeon was in attendance on them.
HORACE HARDY (policeman, G 15.) I was present at the meeting at Clerkenwell-green on 29th May. I heard two speakers—a procession was afterwards formed—they went through Finsbury-square, where they wound round several times, and they went through the streets towards the West, and ultimately came to a coffee-shop in Redcross-street, from where people addressed them—the City police then interfered, and dispersed the mob—I cannot say whether there was any resistance; I went out of it.
Cross-examined. Q. You know they were dispersed? A. Yes—I returned about an hour after, and found that they were—I should say there were 3, 000 people—I do not know how many police there were, I was in the mob.
MR. RICHARD KEMMIS . I produce a true copy of the record of the conviciton of John Mitchell—I examined it with the record in the Clerk of the Crowns'-office, in Dublin—the meaning of the word Foigh-a-Ballagh, which has been used, I have understood to be "Clear away."
(Portions of the writings of Mitchell were here read from the record, as in the former cases.)
GUILTY of Sedition and the Unlawful Assembly . Aged 27.— Confined Two hart and Two Months , and to enter into his own recognizance in 100l., and Two Sureties in 50l. each, to keep the peace for Three Years .
NEW COURT.—Friday, July 5th, 1848.
PRESENT—Mr. Baron PARKE; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald GIBBS; and Mr. RECORDER.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Fifth Jury.
JOSEPH WARR . I live in Ladbrook-terrace, and am in Thomas Pocock's employ, who is building some houses in Ladbrook-square. The prisoner lodged in my house some weeks—I missed some handles and escutcheons of Mr-Pocock's—I spoke to the prisoner about them—he said he knew nothing about them—I called in an officer, searched his box, and found some escutcheons
and two keys, one of which opens the cupboard from which these things were taken, and some duplicates, which led us to the pawnbrokers where the door bandies and other things were pawned—this plane produced is mine' the other things are Mr. Pocock's.
Prisoner. Q. Are you a member of the Chartist Association? A. I have been—I did not induce you to come and lodge with me—I never allowed you to go to that cupboard—you owe me money.
THOMAS SMITH (police-sergeant, T 46.) I took the prisoner at Mr. Warr's, and found on him twelve duplicates, two relating to the articles produced—I searched bis box, and found two escutcheons, two keys, and fifty duplicates.
Prisoner. I took these things, but not intending to steal them; I had no lock on my box, and Ward, and his wife, and boy could get to it; my wife is ill in the country; I made away with everything I had to pay doctors' bills,
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Baron Parke.
(MR. CLARKSON, on the part of the prosecution, offered no evidence.)
NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY . Aged 38.— Transported for Seven Years .
MESSRS. BODKIN and CLERK conducted the Prosecution.
MR. GEORGE LAVELL CHESTERTON . I am Governor of the House of Correction, Coldbath-fields. The prisoner was an inmate of that prison in June—he came in on 4th November—I knew the deceased, his name was William Henry Woodhouse—he was a warder—on Saturday, 10th June, about eight in the morning, he came to me with the prisoner, and reported in his presence that the prisoner had complained to him that one of the prisoners in the yard had held a conversation with him, and asked him if he were not the man who had criminal intercourse with his own daughter, or something to that effect—Woodhouse said to me that he did not believe the truth of the prisoners statement—I said instantly, "Nor do I," and told the prisoner I should remove him into a cell by himself, for he really was not a man fit to associate with others—he was then taken away by Woodhouse—about an hour after that I saw the prisoner in a cell in No. 5 yard—I had then seen Woodhouse carried away wounded and dying from No. 5 yard—when I went to the cell I said to the prisoner, "You have done a fatal deed at last; this poor man is dead. you have killed him "—he said, "Serve him right, a b----y villain!"—he
said he only wished that villain Latham had been in his way, he would have served him so also—that was another warder.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. What was the prisoner's complaint that the deceased represented to you? A. That one of the prisoners, No. 14, had asked the prisoner if he were the man that was in the prison for having to do with his daughter, or having criminal intercourse with his daughter, I do not recollect it precisely—the impression on my mind was that it was No. 14—the difference is between 14 and 56, I will not state particularly—I inquired of 14 or 56 upon the subject—this is not the first time I have stated that—I will not swear that I inquired of either of those persons in the presence of the man who accused him—I think I did—I made inquiry before this unhappy result, and afterwards also—I have been examined before the Coroner—I was asked questions—I do not think I said anything about his before the Coroner, my evidence was very short—I expressed my entire disbelief of the complaint, and put the prisoner into a separate cell, and punished him, without making any inquiry.
MR. CLERK. Q. State the reason? A. I had had so many instances of his desire to publish his disgrace to others, that having heard it repeatedly before, I could not believe it then.
HENRY YOUNG . On 10th June I was in No. 5 yard at Coldbath-fields prison, about half-past six o'clock. The prisoner was in the cell, I was outside the cell in the passage—I heard him call woodhouse, who went in and spoke to him—I did not hear what the prisoner said—when Woodhouse came outside, I heard the prisoner say, "Shall you make a report of it"—Wood-house said, "Yes, of course I shall make a report of it "—the prisoner said, If you do, it will be the worse for you "—Mr. Woodhouse then went and spoke to Mr. Cooper by the side of the cell.
Cross-examined. Q. Was your cell next to his? A. No; I was in No. 1—I was like an assistant to clean, I was there for a misdemeanor—I was accused of bad money—I had I been there about five months—the prisoners walk round the yard—they have so far access to each other, that they may jeer and make remarks on each other, but they would be liable to punishment font—the prisoner was there when I went—I never heard persons jeering him, or anybody make observations on him, further than a complaint now and then—I did not know rightly or wrongly what he was in for—I considered he was for the same as myself, or for an assault, or something similar, or some misdemeanor—I was not in a day-cell by myself—I slept by myself—I had an opportunity of walking round the yard, and working with the other prisoners in a room—I am not aware that 14 or 56 are here.
WILLIAM COOPER . I am a sub-warder of Coldbath-fields prison. On Saturday morning, 10th June, about seven o'clock, I was in the yard No. 5—the prisoner, No. 54, was in his cell—I desired him to lead out—he would not lead out till he saw the warder—all the prisoners were to come out of their cells at that time—when he would not come out I told the deceased—he went up to him—the prisoner said, "Do you mean to make a report of it "—he said, "I certainly do "—the deceased did not come and speak to me—he went on towards the yard—the prisoner was taken before the Governor about eight o'clock that morning, after which he was brought back to the yard from the Governor's office, and searched—nothing particular was found on him—about half-past eight there was a noise, and a calling out," "Woodhouse, "Woodhouse"—I knew after about a second who it was who was calling—the voice came from No. 5 cell, in No. 5 yard, where the prisoner was—I saw the deceased go up to the prisoner's cell—he asked him what was the matter
the prisoner said, "I hope you will not forget me when the extra bread is coming out "—about half an hour after this my attention was drawn to the same yard—I did not go to the yard—I was under the stage where the men eat their victuals—I could see the deceased in the yard—he was about six yards from the door of No. 5—he made a kind of screech—he was staggering and going to fall backwards—I produce a knife which the Governor gave me—it is the sort of knife that is used in the Oakum-room.
Cross-examined. Q. Who searched the prisoner when the Governor sent him into confinement? A. Woodhouse—I never heard that the prisoner had made a complaint before, that he was called unpleasant names, and unpleasantly pointed at by persons in the gaol.
COURT. Q. How long after you heard the cry of "Woodhouse," was it you saw what you have described? A. About half an hour—the cell door No. 5, was open when I saw the warder staggering—he had just opened it—I dare say it might have been opened half a minute—I had a glimpse of the prisoner—he turned back to the back part of the cell at the time I saw the warder staggering.
ALFRED WADDILOVE . I was a prisoner in Coldbath-fields for a misdemeanor, for uttering. On Saturday morning, 10th June, about nine o'clock, I was underneath the stage where we have breakfast, and saw Woodhouse in the yard, No. 5—he went to No. 5 cell, where the prisoner was confined, and opened the door—in about three or four seconds the prisoner turned round to the back of the cell, picked up the pannikin with his left-hand, and brought it to the door with him—he had something in his right-hand, I cannot say what—Woodhouse was standing at the door with his right-hand against it—the prisoner came to the door, and held out the pannikin with his left-hand, and made an underhand blow at him with his right, because the deceased was down below him—it was two steps up to get in the cell—the deceased said, "Oh my God, he has stabbed me to the heart"—he ran out, I gave the alarm—he was caught, he died about three minutes afterwards, before we got him out of the yard—three officers came to the door, and I saw the prisoner throw this knife down into the cell—he never came out of the cell—he threw it back into the cell—I saw it picked up in the cell.
HENRY-WAKEFIELD. I am surgeon to Coldbath-fields prison. On Saturday, 10th June, I was called into the prison—I saw the deceased—he had been dead some hours—I examined him—I perceived a wound on his left breast, about an inch and a half from the nipple—it passed between the fourth and fifth ribs into the heart—that was the cause of death—it was such a wound as might have been produced by this instrument.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you heard anything on the subject of this man's case? A. I do not think I had—I very rarely inquire into cases—I do not think I had any conversation on the subject—if there had been any jeering, or hurting, or worrying the man in the prison, I do not know anything of it.
GEORGE OWEN . I am one of the warders of Coldbath-fields prison. On Saturday, 10th June, after the death of Woodhouse, the prisoner was put under my charge—I remained in the same cell with him—on the Saturday night he made a statement to me—I took it down in writing—I gave it up to the Coroner's Jury—this is the paper I wrote—I think he saw me writing—I was not with him on Sunday, only at night, being on night duty.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you go to the cell prepared with paper and pen and ink, to write down what he had to say? A. Yes—by order of Mr. Hoare the Deputy-Governor, to take down anything which I considered was
respecting the murder—there was nobody else by when I received these orders—I did not enter into conversation with the prisoner, it is not allowed—I made him answers—he began the conversation by stating the circumstances that had occurred—I do not say he was aware I had pen and ink and paper, but he commenced conversation without my asking him a single question—he began this, and I pulled out my pen, ink, and paper, and wrote it down as he said it—I began to write as soon as he said anything which I ought to write down—I did not take all he said, only what I thought was desirable for me to write down—I put no questions to him—my answers were as short as I could make them—I might say yes, or no—what he said was a statement—he night say this, or perhaps the other, and I might say yes, or perhaps say no—as near as I can recollect when he first entered into conversation, he said, was I aware whether any one was coming to console him after committing the deed—he wanted some one to read to him and console him—that I did not write down—then he went on what I have stated in this paper, and reading at intervals—he had his Bible before him, and was reading, and asked what was the meaning of this word or the other—I did not tell him, before he began to say anything, that I was prepared with pen, ink, and paper—I did not till him I had been directed by my officer to go in provided with pen, ink, and paper—I did not encourage him, or threaten him—I knew what he was in prison for, and so did all the rest of the persons, as far as I am aware—I heard it from some of the officers, and no one else—I had not heard it talked of often—I cannot say I heard so much of it till after the commission of this deed—I never had conversation with any one in the prison concerning it—at the time of this occurrence I beard more fully what it was—I positively swear I never had any conversation with any of the prisoners about it—I was not present at any examination of anybody in consequence of the complaint made by the deceased to the Governor—if there had been such an examination it would not have been my duty to be present—I was making a pair of shoes while he was asleep, or reposing, lying quiet—I did not in the course of that talk say, "I suppose you did not intend that knife for Wood-house"—I said nothing about Woodhouse or Latham—(reading the paper)—"The prisoner Hewson first states that he placed the knife in his stocking; he afterwards went to the closet, and placed it inside the flap of his trowsers; he says that at his trial he must mention circumstances that he is afraid will implicate his daughter with the disposal of two children; (I think he said two children;) he intends to apply to two parties for counsel; he says he thinks they can't refuse, for if he was to split, it would be the ruin of them; he speaks as if they were men of property"—that is an observation I made myself—this is the second statement—" On Sunday night, the prisoner states that he did not intend to murder Woodhouse, but on account of Woodhouse going to the cell, and telling him that he seemed likely to be very troublesome, and to bear in mind what the Governor had said to him about putting him in irons, he then resolved that he should be the victim; Latham was the one that he intended to have murdered, but an opportunity did not show itself; he says that on Wednesday morning he was sent to the work-room, as it was raining; he then got the knife, and placed it in one of the closets; on Thursday morning he took it to his yard, and sharpened it on a piece of stone which was taken from him; he tried to hide it in one of the closets in a hole, but it was not big enough; he then placed it in his stocking, there kept it Thursday and Friday; he intended to keep it till an opportunity showed itself to stab Latham; he said that on account of Latham sitting on the stool (meaning in the work-room), and having on the wrapper, he thought he might
miss his blow, so he resolved to wait a more favourable opportunity; he says he hopes his daughter will not be brought up, if she is, there will be three separate cases to be heard; that one of the Grays, about two months past, swore to him to be revenged on one of the officers before he went out, but did not say his name, but he said he would perhaps tell it when he goes out; that when Woodhouse went in for the tin, he was standing with his hand inside the flap of his trowsers, holding the knife in his right-hand; he gave the tin with his left, and at the same time striking the blow with his right."
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Had you shown the first statement to Mr. Hoare before you got the second? A. Yes—I did not show it myself to Mr. Chesterton—I did not desire Mr. Hoare to show it him—I cannot tell whether he did.
GUILTY . Aged 45.— DEATH .
1717. THOMAS JOHN TURNER , stealing a post letter, containing Bank-notes, value 40l.; the property of Her Majesty's Post-master General; to which he pleaded GUILTY . Aged 26.—(Mr. Gray, tailor, of Chatham, and Mr. Rich, shipwright, gave him a good character.)— Transported for Seven Years .
MESSRS. BODKIN and PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRANNAN (police-sergeant, G 20.) On Monday, 22nd May, about noon, I went with four other officers to the second-floor of No. I, New-court, Great Wild-street, Drury-lane—I directed Hughes to remain in the court, to stand by the door under the second-floor window—he would command a view of that window—the street-door was open—we went up to the second-floor room, and commenced battering the door, which was strongly barricaded—there was a door nailed to the usual door with large spikes, to make it thicker and more difficult to enter, and against that door these large pieces of wood (produced) to go from the door to the wall on the other side—after considerable difficulty we got in, and Neville and Swanson secured the prisoners, who were in the room—Thomas was standing with his shirt-sleeves tucked up above his elbows, and a frying-pan in his hand—Sarah was standing close to the window, which was open—there is but one room on a floor—before we got in I heard a noise resembling the breaking of glass, and ordered Harvey to go down in the court to Hughes, whom I had left there to watch—on entering the room I observed this earthenware pipkin on a clear fire with white metal in it, which had been recently upset, with the metal pouring from it through the fire—I saw a tub containing water, which I immediately emptied on the fire—I then commenced picking up the metal which poured through the fire—this is it—I believe it is Britannia metal—on the hob I saw an iron pot which contained metal, not in a fluid state but quite hot, I could hardly bold the spoon—it appears to have been melted, but left there to cool—under the stove I found another iron spoon, and this knife on a table close to the fire, with plaster of Paris adhering to one of the blades, and on the same table a pair of scissors and two files, one of them with white metal in its teeth—on a shelf in the room I found a quantity of copper wire, having a silvery appearance, as if used in the galvanic battery; and under the table three tin bands for forming plaster of Paris moulds, with plaster adhering to them—I searched Thomas, and found in his right breeches pocket three good shillings
(produced) and 2 1/2 d. in copper—I ordered the prisoners to be taken to the station, in consequence of a mob being assembled—I went with Harvey down stairs—I got a candle and went down to the cellar, but found nothing—I saw the plaster under the stairs was broken, within six or seven feet of the cellar-door—I put my hand into the hole, and found three parcels wrapped up separately in paper—one of them contained a mould for casting half-crowns, and the other two, double moulds for casting shillings—some stuff was spilled on the table in the confusion, and some of it got spilled on the shillings—before that they were perfectly bright—I showed them to the man, and afterwards showed him the moulds, and told him where I found them—he made no reply.
Cross-examined by MR. BRIARLY. Q. The street-door was open? A. Yes—these moulds were on that part of the stair-case that led to the cellar, in a part to which any one might have access—one of the shillings found on Thomas did not correspond with the moulds—two of them did.
JAMES NEVILLE (policeman, G 152.) I accompanied Brannan when the door was forced—I saw Thomas with the frying-pan in his hand—the table was about a yard and a half from the fire—there was a bed and bedstead in the room—I was the first who seized the man—he said, "Deal with me fairly; treat me as a man."
JOSEPH SAMUEL HUGHES (policeman, 114 E.) I was in front of the house—in a short time I heard the noise of breaking a door—on the first blow I heard the breaking of glass—I looked up to the window, which was open, and Saw several glass bottles thrown out—some came near me, and others went over a wall on the roof of some stables—I saw some jars come out—I could see the prisoners standing in that room with the officers—Harvey came down—we searched, and just over the wall I found this part of a galvanic battery plate and some copper wire—there was nothing in the jars that I could retain—they were broken, and the bottles too—I went up to the room and found this file on the floor, and on the mantel-piece, under a saltcellar, this shilling—I found this handkerchief with a hole burnt in it.
JOHN HARVEY (policeman, 118 G.) I was with the other officers—I joined Hughes, and went to the back of the stable-yard—I found part of a jar, part of a galvanic battery plate, and some wire to it, which appeared to have been silvered, and two necks of bottles, which smelt of sulphur—they were six or seven yards from the window.
EDWARD SPEECHLEY . I am a broker at Great Wild-street. On Tuesday, 16th May, Thomas came to my house, and took the second-floor room of No. 1, New-court—he was to pay 3s. 6d. a week—he paid 2s. deposit—on 22nd May I saw both prisoners in custody—these pieces of wood were not there when they took the room—neither the wood nor any of these things belong to me.
Cross-examined. Q. You let three rooms in that house? A. Yes—there are no back-rooms—other persons lodge in the house—the staircase was open to persons living in the house—I keep the cellar in my own occupation, it is locked.
CALEB EDWARD POWELL . I am inspector of coin to the Royal Mint This mould is plaster of Paris, and is for casting counterfeit shillings—this is a good shilling, and appears to have been used for making this mould—it
corresponds with one of this impression, of 1820, of George the Third's reign—I have no doubt it made this mould—there are some defects on it, which must have occurred after coining—those defects I find represented on the mould—this other mould is for casting two counterfeit shillings at the same time—one is an impression of George the Third's, 1816—this other shilling was the model for making that mould—this other is a Victoria one—this shilling found on the mantel-piece is counterfeit—these pipkins are used for melting metal—this appears to be Britannia metal, which is generally used in casting counterfeit shillings—they use the galvanic battery for covering these coins with silver, this copper wire is part of it—these bunds are used for making moulds,—these files, knife, and scissors, are used in the preparation of coin.
Thomas Johnson's Defence. I throw myself on the mercy of the Court; this female had only been with me three days; she is perfectly ignorant of it; she never saw the moulds to my knowledge; she was never at home but at meal times.
THOMAS JOHNSON *— GUILTY . Aged 25.— Transported for Seven Years .
SARAH JOHNSON— GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Six Month .
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
RICHARD BLAKEMORE , Esq. I am Member of Parliament for Wells, in Somersetshire. On 3rd July, 1843, I received three 1000l. bank-notes at Messrs Mastennan's—I put them into my trowsers pocket, passed up Cheapside, got into an omnibus at the top of Ludgate-hill, and rode till I came to the turning that leads into St. James's-square—my apartments are very near, and I walked there—I went into my own room with a view to send the notes into the country—I put my hand into my pocket, and they were not there—I did not know how I had lost them, but something which occurred to me in the omnibus has been mentioned to me—I lost them in getting out, by some person to whom I returned thanks for helping me out—some time afterwards, in 1843, one of the notes was presented at the Bank of England, by a clerk in the branch bank at Liverpool—he was tried for having other stolen notes in his possession, and the Judge gave directions that my note should be restored to me—I did not trace the other two.
MR. SAMUEL ROBERT GOODMAN . I am principal clerk to the Lord Mayor. In the course of this matter being investigated before his Lordship, these two 1000l. notes were produced, and were, by the advice of one party and the consent of the other, deposited in my hands to be produced on this trial—(producing them.)
MR. BLAKEMORE. re-examined. These are the notes I had.
JOHN FORRESTER . I and my brother were directed by Messrs. Bush and Mullens to go to the prisoner's house—we went on the 1st of June, and found him at home—he keeps the Coal Hole, Blackfriars-road, next door to the Surrey Theatre—I do not know whether his house is the resort of sporting men—I told him my name, and said I came to ask him about two 1000l. notes that he had paid into his banker's—he said all he could say about it was, that anything that I wanted to know, if I applied to his solicitors, Messrs. Wire and Child, they would give any information—I said, "Perhaps you had better go with me"—he said, "I have an engagement, but I will give you a note"—I said, "A note is of no utility to me, you had better come
with me"—there was some observation about taking him into custody—he said, "Am I in custody?"—I said, "You are"—he said, "Very well, then I will go with you directly"—he put his coat on, and we went in a cab to Messrs. Wire and Child's—I found they were his solicitors, and they attended to the case from that time.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. When did you receive the information? A. Two or three, or it might be four days before—it was in consequence of the notes having been stopped at the Bank—I found the prisoner engaged in his usual occupation in his bar—he had his coat off, and was serving and acting as landlord of the house.
MR. HENRY CHILD . I am in partnership with Mr. Wire, we are solicitors. We had been concerned professionally for the prisoner for several years past—I heard that he came in company with Forrester—I was not there then—I heard the cause of his being taken—several days previous to that he told me the notes he bad paid into his bankers, the Southampton branch of the London and Westminster Bank, had been stopped at the Bank—I accompanied him to the Bank, and saw Mr. Marshall—I was alone with him, and explained to him the circumstances as detailed to me by the prisoner—the prisoner did not give me directions to make any express statement, or to say anything specially—he came to me, and said that on the preceding day he had paid these notes into his banker's, and in the evening, some person came from the Bank, and told him they had been stopped, that they had been stolen some years before, and he requested me to go with him to his banker's—on the way, he told me that he went to Epsom, on the Derby day, and while there, a bet was offered him of 2000l. to 1000l., by a person, who he afterwards ascertained from himself, was a Mr. Green, whose residence was at Manchester; and after the race was won, and it being determined in his favour, the gentleman come to him, and wished to settle the bet; that he paid him the two 1000l. notes in question, and he immediately put the name of the party on the back of the notes—I believe this to be the prisoner's writing on the back of them—he said the person who came to him was attired as a gentleman, was rather of an imposing appearance, and was in a very handsome carriage; that he knew there was a Mr. Green of Manchester, very much connected with the sporting world, and who kept race-horses, and he supposed this was the man; that Mr. Robertson, the editor and proprietor of the Railway Record and Railway Times, was with him, and saw the notes, and took them in his hand, and Mr. Upham, and another gentleman, were present; one carrying on business in Blackfriars-road, and the other in Edgware-road, and his wife was with him, and other persons—I stated the substance of this to Mr. Marshall—these are the notes which were deposited in Mr. Goodman's hands, at the hearing—they have Green's name on the back of them.
Cross-examined. Q. You became attorney in this case, having acted as attorney for the prisoner for a number of years? A. Yes—he is a licensed victualler, and the proprietor of a clothes-exchange, in Houndsditch—it was through that, that I principally had to do with him—I investigated the title when he purchased the freehold—he has been in possession of considerable sums from time to time—we always had a very high opinion of him—we had business with him respecting that freehold property, and two or three lease-hold properties.
MR. CLARKSON to JOHN FORRESTER. Q. Did you make any inquiries for a person of the name of Green, largely connected with the sporting world, at Manchester? A. Yes; I found there was such a person.
JOHN ROBERTSON . I live at 153, Fleet-street. I am editor of the Railway Record—I was at Epsom on the Derby day. May 24th, with Mr. Upham and two other gentlemen—we went to a booth for refreshment, just before the race for the Derby was run—the prisoner came in while we were there—he asked us to go and have some lunch with him—we went to his carriage, which was near the grand stand, and lunched with him there—the Derby race was run soon after, after which a person came up to the prisoner's carriage—I should not know him again—he was a tall man, with green spectacles—I saw him hand over two notes to the prisoner, which were afterwards shown to me, and were two 1000l. notes—I do not know that I should know them—I do not know these notes—I did not hear the person who gave these notes say anything—I was on the side of the carriage nearest to the race, and he came on the off-side.
MR. UPHAM. I am engaged on the Railway Record, under Mr. Robertson. I was at Epsom on the Derby day—I lunched in the prisoner's carriage—I saw some notes paid him on the course by a gentleman with spectacles—I understood him to say he had lost some money on a bet, or something to that effect—I was on the side where he came up and paid them, on the opposite side to Mr. Robertson—he did not stay a moment—Mr. Simmons received the money, and said it was all right—he showed the notes to us, they were two 1000l. notes—he was cautioned to take care of them, and to cut them, as it was a large sum of money to have on the race course—he did not cut them that I saw—he said he had backed Surplice, the winner of the Derby—I had not seen the man who handed them over, before—I heard the prsioner say he had won the money of Mr. Green.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. CLARKSON. at the commencement of the case had expressed a desire to withdraw from the prosecution, there being every reason to believe the prisoner's statement to be true, but the Court thought that the evidence should be heard.
EDWARD WATSON . I am in the service of Jabez Miller, a linen-draper, of Stoke Newington. These three pieces of cotton are his—I saw them safe in his shop about twelve o'clock, on 27th June—I went out, and returned between six and seven—they were then gone—I went to the station, and saw them—the prisoners were in custody.
GEORGE LANGDON . (policeman, N 265.) I was on duty in Kingsland, about a quarter of a mile from Stoke Newington. I saw the prisoners standing together near some shops—Allen had this bag with something in it—I asked what he had got—he said a piece of print his aunt gave him—I asked where she lived—he said he did not know—the other two prisoners ran away—I called to have them stopped, and they were stopped—I took Allen to the station, searched the bag, and found in it these pieces of print—I afterwards took the other two prisoners to the station—Lovell made a little resistance—he ran a short distance, but was caught again—I went to Mr. Miller's shop about five o'clock, and he identified the print.
(Reeves received a good character.)
GUILTY .— Each Confined Six Months .
THIRD COURT.—Friday, July 7th, 1848.
PRESENT—Mr. Ald Humphery; Sir William Magnay, Bart., Ald.; Mr. Ald. GIBBS; Sir JAMES DUKE, Knt., Ald.; and EDWARD BULLOCK, Esq.
Before Edward Bullock, Esq., and the First Jury.
1721. THOMAS SCOTT, CHARLES SOLOMON , and WILLIAM NORTON , feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Taylor, and stealing therein 1 waistcoat, and 1 pair of slippers, value 3s.; and 32l. 12s. in money; his property: and 4l. 11s. 4d., the moneys of James White: Scott and Norton having been before convicted.
JAMES WHITE . I am foreman to John Taylor, a baker, of the Oval-road, Camden-town; it is his house, and is in St. Pancras parish. I kept the money which I took, in a box in the counting-house, into which I put 32l. 12s. of my masters, and 4l. 15s. of my own, in sovereigns, half-crowns, shillings, and copper—I kept my clothes in the same box—I locked it on Sunday morning, 25th June, and put the key in my pocket—my clothes and money were then safe—James Pope sleeps in the house, and takes care of the retail shop—he went to Church with me—we left the front and back doors locked—we returned at one o'clock, and found the front door open, went in, and found the box wrenched open, and the money gone—I have seen Solomon in the shop to buy bread.
GRACE PEEL . I am ten years old, and live with my father and mother at Durham Wharf, Camden-town. I have seen the prisoners about James-street, and know them—on this Sunday I saw them about half-past twelve o'clock, by the ice well—Solomon called the other two—they all went to Mr. Taylor's bake-house, undid the handle, and went in—Norton remained at the corner of Stanhope-street—the others came out and called him, and they all went into the shop—I did not stop to see them come out.
MARY KIPPENS . I am married, and live at Camden-town. About half-past twelve o'clock on this Sunday, I was cleaning my steps, and saw Solomon at the corner of the Stanhope Arms—he hailed two others, who I cannot swear to, and said, "It is all right"—I saw Grace Peel there.
WILLIAM PICTON . (policeman, S 106.) I went with White to Mr. Taylor's; and saw the box, the lid had been forced from the screws. I found Solomon and Scott together at 114, Grove-street, Camden-town, about half-past three o'clock—I told them what I took them for—they said they thought it was for tossing—I found a latch-key on Solomon—on the Monday, I went with white to Scott's, and found this waistcoat under a box, and these slippers on the box.
BENJAMIN BADDELEY . (policeman.) I took Norton in the fields behind the Haverstock Almshouses. I asked him when he saw Scott and Solomon, he said at half-past twelve o'clock, at the Cricketers, which is very near Mr. Taylor's—Grace Peel identified him—she described him before seeing him.
SCOTT— GUILTY .
SOLOMON— GUILTY . *
NORTON— GUILTY .
Transported for Seven Years .
GUILTY of a common assault.
GUILTY of a common assault. Aged 21.— Confined Twelve Months .
GUILTY . Aged 34.— DEATH Recorded .
OLD COURT.—Saturday, July 8th, 1848.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Justice WILDE; Sir PETER LAURIE, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald GIBBS; Sir GEORGE CARROLL, Knt., Ald.; and EDWARD BULLOCK, Esq.
Before Edward Bullock, Esq., and the Second Jury.
MR. PLATT conducted the Prosecution.
CAROLINE STEELE . I am sixteen years old. I am servant to Mr. William Wheatley, of 23, South-terrace, Thurlow-square, Brompton—the prisoner was in his service eight days, and left between seven and eight o'clock on 21st June—she left one of her boxes behind, and Mr. Wheatley said she must come for it afterwards—she came for it about eight that evening, and asked leave to go down-stairs for a certain purpose—you have to pass the kitchen to go to the closet—it is indoors—you need not go into the kitchen to go to it—she went down-stairs, and I waited for her up-stairs in the passage—I and a little boy six years old were the only persons in the house, besides an invalid lady upstairs, who was locked in—the prisoner was gone a very long time, and I called to her three times—she made no answer—I went down, and saw her come out of the kitchen—I am sure it was not out of the other place—I did not go into the kitchen myself at that time—we both came up-stairs together—I opened the door to let her out, and while I was standing at the door, before she went out, I smelt a great burning—I asked her if she had seen anything on fire when she was down-stairs—I am sure I used the word seen anything—she said no, she had not—she was looking down at the kitchen window two or three times, we could see it from where we were—I looked and saw a great smoke come from the window—I asked her whether she would mind coming
down stairs again with me, and she told me I might go down and look and see whether it was on fire, for she had not any business in the house when her box was out—I told her, that master would be very much obliged to her if she would come down and put it out, if it was on fire—she would not, and I went down by myself into the kitchen—I went to a cupboard, the door of which I found shut, and found rags inside burning on the top—it was smouldering—there was a little flame—I am sure I saw flame—it was beginning to light again, but a pipe which runs through the cupboard was melted, and the water run out and put it out—I was rather frightened, I ran up stairs and asked the prisoner again to come down—she told me to go down and open all the doors and windows, and then the smoke would go out—I went down, but I did not do that—I opened the cupboard-door, and when I found it was beginning to blaze up again I shut it again—the prisoner came down in about ten minutes—I had not done anything in the mean time to put it out—I could not do anything—when she came down I threw some water over it, and when it was very near out, she took up a jug and threw some over it herself—I told her if I opened the windows and doors it would blaze up, and the house would be burnt down before my master came home—she said she could no: help it, she was in a hurry, as she had to go out that evening—I asked her if she met my master to tell him that the house had been on fire, and she said she would—we usually kept black-lead brushes and leathers to polish candlesticks in the cupboard—there were some rags, but no wood was there before the fire—I am sure of that—it was kept in a different cupboard—there was wood mixed with the rags when it was on fire—that was the first time I had seen wood there—rags were kept in the cupboard, but in a different part—I had not seen any of them before on that day—the wood was kept in another cupboard—no paper was kept there,-but there was some burning—the inside of the door, the side, and underneath the shelves of the cupboard, were all burnt black—I had to throw a great deal of water on it—it was put out at last—my master came in a little time after the prisoner had gone.
COURT. Q. Did you see any part of the cupboard on fire? A. No—there was no flame from any part of the cupboard itself—the rags were where the flame was—the cupboard-door was black, and all in cracks with the burning—it appeared as if it had been in a flame—it was charred—the paint was blistered—when I told the prisoner the place was on fire, she said it was only nonsense—she did not say anything before I noticed the flame—she remained there ten minutes—she did not go till it was over.
Prisoner. Q. Did not I take a pint pot off the dresser and put the fire out? A. You gave it me and told me to pour some water over it; and when you saw I was very much frightened, you took the pot out of my hand.
WILLIAM WHEATLEY . I live at this house—it is in the parish of St. Mary Abbotts, Kensington—the prisoner came into my service on 12th June—for some reason I parted with her—she went on 21st—she wanted a month's wages besides the time she had been in my house—I refused to pay her, on account of her conduct and the bad language she used while in the house—she had been rather violent—she said she would not go without her month's wages—that was on the Tuesday—on the Wednesday evening after I paid her I went out—I gave her leave to leave one of her boxes in the passage, and to come back for it—I left my little boy and Caroline Steele in the house—the rest of my family were out—as I came home I met the prisoner at the corner of Thurlow-square, and said, "You have been for your box yourself?"—she said, "Yes, Sir"—that was all she said—I went home, and found Steele very frightened, and fainting away in the passage—I went into the
kitchen, and the water was running out of the pipe that supplies the cistern in the fireplace—the water in the kitchen was over my feet, I was wet up to my ankles—the pipe was very hot, and there were some rags which had been burning under it—they were smouldering like tinder—I did not see any flame—the kitchen was full of smoke—I put it entirely out—the cupboard was very much chirred, and the paint quite black—it had been in flames and the tire had come round out of the cupboard—sonic of the outside of the cupboard was burnt—the water had stopped it—I had looked in the cupboard before I went out, I saw no rairs of that kind there—I cannot say there were no rags there—nothing of a Combustible nature was kept in the cupboard—lociter matches are kept in a tin box, on the mantel-piece.
COURT. Q. Was the cupboard much charred? A. Very much—the shelves, and the side from the ceiling to the floor—it has been repaired by the Fire-office—the cupboard was built with the house, and is part of the house—it is not a mere fixture—I did not. see any hair there in the morning but I believe there was some lying about the day before.
JAMES SKELTON . (policeman, B 4.) I took the prisoner into custody—I told her what it was for—she said, "I did not do it; it is false whoever said so "—I produce some rags I found at the house—the pipe was melted, and I found a portion of the lead that had been melted from it among the ashes—the cupboard-door was very much burnt—it was charred—this is part of it (producing a piece quite black.)
Prisoner's Defence. I am NOT GUILTY of the charge; I got the hair from the parlour in the morning.
GUILTY . Aged 49.— DEATH Recorded.
NEW COURT.—Saturday, July 8th, 1848.
PRESENT—Mr. Baron PARKE; Mr. Ald WILSON; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Sir GEORGE CARROLL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. RECORDER; Mr. Ald MOON; and Mr. Ald LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Recorder and the Sixth Jury.
WILLIAM YEOMAN . I keep a public-house, in New Gravel-Lane, Shadwell. On 25th June I missed from my drawer two waistcoats, a pair of trowsers, and a gold brooch; and from another drawer two silver watches, and a chain—I had seen them all sale on the Monday previous—these are them—(produced.)
Cross-examined by MR. PLUMPTRE. Q. The prisoner had lived with you? A. Yes, on several occasions, as a lodger—I have known him upwards of eight years, off and on—I can say nothing against him but this—he has on various occasions had access to large amounts of property of mine—I have trusted him with my bar—he has lately got into bad company.
GEORGE GOLDER . I am in the employ of Mr. Child, a pawnbroker, in High-street, Shadwell. I produce two watches, a pair of trowsers, and two waistcoats, all pawned by the prisoner, on 19th and 21st June, for 30s.
Cross-examined. Q. At what times in the day were they pawned? A. At different times—many sailors come, but not many blacks—I positively swear to the prisoner.
CHARLES POTTER (policeman, K 212.) I apprehended the prisoner—I told him I believed I wanted him, for stealing two watches and several other things of Mr. Yeoman's—he said he knew nothing of them—on the way to we station the said, "I will tell you the truth, I pawned them"—he gave me the duplicates, which led me to the pawnbroker's.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you said anything to him? A. No.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Confined Six Months .
Before Mr. Baron Parke.
1728. JAMES HENRY BRADBURY , feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 300l., with intent to defraud William Dixon and others; also, forging and uttering an order for the payment of 371l. 7s. 4d., with intent to defraud Sir John William Lubbock, Bart., and others; to which he pleaded
1729. JOHN CLARK and the said JAMES HENRY BRADBURY , feloniously forging and uttering an order for the payment of 434l. 16s. 8d., with intent to defraud Sir John William Lubbock, Bart., and others; to which BRADBURY pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 38.— Transported for Twenty Years .
MESSRS. BODKIN and HUDDLESTON conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS BRIGGS . I am clerk in the banking-house of Sir John William Lubbock and others. Messrs. Hawes, soap-boilers, of Lambeth, keep an account with us—this check (produced) was brought on 24th April, between one and two o'clock; I think it was after one—it is for 434l. 16s. 8d., drawn by B. and W. Hawes on Lubbock and Co., in favour of Foster and Co., and indorsed Foster and Co.,—I cashed it with four 100l.-notes, No. 38273, dated Jan. 10, 1848; Nos. 24180, 24181, and 24182, all dated Newcastle, 18th Aug. 1847; and 34l. 16s. 8d. in sovereigns and silver—I cannot say whether the body of this check is one of the checks of Lubbock and Co.—here is on the check "I. 172"—that is intended to be Mr. Hawes's private number.
WILLIAM HAWES . I am a soap-maker, at Lambeth—I am partner with my brother. We have a banking account at Messrs. Lubbock's—our prirate number is "I. 172," which is printed on the check-book given to us—every check in that book is marked "I. 172"—this check is not out of our book—it is not signed by me or my brother, or by our authority.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Is there any resemblance to your writing in it I A. It bears a resemblance—no person could have done it but a person conversant with my handwriting, or from a copy—it does not appear to have been lined—I can positively say it is not my writing.
JOSEPH THORNETT . I live at No. 21, York-street, Westminster—I have been a gentleman's servant—I am not in employ at present. In April last I put an advertisement into the Times newspaper—I have an aunt living at No. 67, Seymour-place, Bryanston street—I received a communication from her, and went to York-street—on Good Friday evening, the 21st of April, a person called on me at York-street; I cannot say who it was—it was neither of the prisoners—I afterwards received a check from that person in Mincing-lane—I took it to Messrs. Lubbock's—as I was going from the place where the person gave me the check to Messrs. Lubbock's, I inquired of a gentleman the nearest way to the bankers.'—he said he could not tell—the prisoner Clark came up after me, and asked me where I wanted to go—I told him I wanted to go to the Mansion-house—he said he was going that way, and he
would show me the way—we went along, and he was talking about different things—we came together to Gracechurch-street, I think it is—he said he was going no further; he was going up to the right hand; if I went straight along Lombard-street I should see the Mansion-house on the left hand, and the Bank on the right—I had not said anything about the Bank before that—I went on there, and came back again from the bank after I got the check cashed—I met Clark again in the middle of Lombard-street—it was then five or ten minutes after throe o'clock—he asked me if I had done my business right—I said, "Yes"—he said, and so had he—we walked together past Gracechurch-street towards Mincing-lane—he said to me, "You walk very fast"—I said, "I generally walk fast when I am by myself"—he said, "I am in a hurry," and he ran on—I took the proceeds of the check to Mincing-lane, where I had received it, and gave it to the person who had first seen me in York-street—it was in a passage in Mincing-lane, I do not know the name of it—I afterwards showed the place to Mr. Mullen's clerk—about the time I received the check I had seen Clark come out of the archway—he was not present when I received it, but he followed me out—that was before he spoke to me—I took the proceeds of the check that I got from the cashier at the bank to the person who had spoken to me in York-street.
JEAN GODK HELLENBURG . (through an interpreter.) This 100l. note, No. 24181, Newcastle, Aug. 18, 1847, was taken from Clark's breast-pocket, under his flannel waistcoat—I received it on 25th April, at two o'clock in the afternoon.
JOSEPH THORNETT . re-examined. A gentleman came to me at York-street, on 21st April—I was looking out for a situation—I told him I was the person who had advertised for the situation—he said he had not time to stop and talk then, but he would call to-morrow, at eleven o'clock—he said he wanted me for his brother, who lived at Box-lodge, Croydon—he called next morning, at eleven—he said he had not time to stop and talk with me; I might go with him, and we would talk as we went along—we went to Great George-street, Westminster—as we-were going he asked the wages I wanted—I told him 24l.—he said his brother gave 26/.—he said he should have no objection to give me that, and he thought I should have no objection to take it—I said, "No, not in the least"—he said his brother was a merchant—he said he was going into the City, but he was going into an office on the left-hand side for a short time, and he said I might go and come back—I went away, and came back in half an hour or three-quarters—I then found him on the step of the door—we went on to Downing-street, and when we got half-way down Downing-street he told me had to meet a gentleman somewhere, and I was to go on to the East India Chambers, in Leadenhall-street, and meet him there—I went there, and waited about a quarter of an hour—he came there—I thought he came across the road—he said, "Stop a moment; I will go in and see if my brother is come to town"—he went up the passage, through the folding-doors into the East India Chambers—he was not gone hardly a minute—he came back, and said his brother had not come to town, and that he was sure to be in town that day—he said, "Come along with me a little way?"—we went to the corner of Billiter-street, and he gave me sixpence, and told me to set something to eat—he said his brother had not come, and he wished I could meet him again at three, at the East India Chambers—he left me, and went back in the same direction that he came—I got some refreshment, and went back to the chambers, about twenty minutes before the time he mentioned—in a few minuter he came—he said his brother had not come to town yet, and we went together to Billiter-street—he baid he had got a good deal
of business to do, and he wanted me to do something for him if I would do it—I told him I would do anything that I could do for him—he said it was a thing of great importance, and he should not trust me with it only he knew my aunt—he then gave me this paper (looking at it)—we went on as far as the Commercial-rooms, Mincing-lane—I stopped at the bottom of the stairs, in the passage—he went up the stairs, leaned over the rails, and called me up—I went up, and he gave me the check for 434l. 16s. 8d., on a little side-board on the landing—he said I was to take great care of it, and when I got the money I was to bring it back to him at the same place—he told me there were two or three cashiers, and I was to go to the further one, on the left-hand side as I went in at the door, and if they asked how I wanted it, I was to say four 100l.-notes, and the rest in cash—he gave me the check and a bill-case to put it in—he told me to put the notes in one side of the case, and the gold in the other—the staircase up which I went was in the archway—I came out there after I got the check, and turned to the left—I asked a gentleman the way, and he said he could not direct me—I saw Clark come out of the archway, and he came up to me—after he left me I went to the bank and got the check cashed—I came out, and met Clark again—I then went to the Commercial-rooms—I took the money on the landing—the person was cot there—I waited about two minutes, and the person came up the same way that I had come—(when I had left Clark, before I went to Commercial-buildings, he went on, and I lost sight of him within a few yards of Mincing-lane)—he asked me if I had done that all right—I told him yes, and gave him the bill-case and the money—he looked at the notes, but did not count the gold—he gave me half-a-crown, and said he was very sorry his brother had not come to town, and he did not think he would be there that day; but I was to go to the Golden-cross, Charing-cross, and he would meet me there—I went to the Golden Cross, and got there within five or ten minutes of four—I waited some time, and the same person came in—he Said he was very sorry his brother had not come to town, but he was going to dine with him on the morrow, which was Sunday, and he would tell him about me, and send to me on the Monday—he did not and I went to Lubbock's, and told what had taken place.
Cross-examined. Q. What age are you? A. Twenty-one last April—I saw the party at the Golden Cross—I expected to be engaged in the service, and from that time I saw nothing of either of the parties till I saw Clark at the Mansion-house—I am still out of place—I have not been supported by the prosecutors—I have not received anything from them since the prisoners have been committed—before that I received 5s., I think it was, and a half-crown—those are the only sums I have received—I asked for those—none has been offered me—when I left service I had 2l. or 3l., and I have borrowed money from my father and my sister—I did not find the prosecutors quite ready to let me have as much as I wanted; they refused me once—I do not recollect when that was; I think it was about two months ago—I think I asked the clerk at Mr. Mullens's—I asked Mr. Mullens once, and he let me have the 5s.—I did not ask Mr. Mullens again, because I was not in particular want of it—I was not promised anything when this matter was over that I swear—they told me they could not give me any money, but my expences would be settled when it was over—they did not tell me how much—I did not tell my father or my sister what I expect to get—Clark walked with me to Gracechurch-street after he came out of the passage—we walked together—I noticed him particularly—I noticed the other person likewise—I should know him again—I gave a description of him and of
Clark—I described the other man to Mr. Mullens a? having sore eves, and I gave a description of his height—I have not thought since of what height I and—I do not recollect whether it was five feet ten or five feet nine; I will not swear that I did not say it was five feet seven—I will not swear whether it was five feet seven, five feet nine and a half, or five feet ten—I said he had liiiht hair—I am not sure that I did not say he had darkish hair because what I told Mr. Mullens I have never thought of since—I told him he had a light over-coat buttoned round him—I told him it was a darkish colour—I never told him it was a frock-coat—I did not tell what hat he had on—it was on Saturday the cheek was cashed, and I told on the Thursday following—I saw Mr. Mullens again on the same morning that I saw Clark—I do not recollect seeing him between those times—I saw Mr. Mullens in his own office; he wrote me a letter—I have the letter at home—he did not tell me he had got the party who gave me the check in custody—I did not: allude to the letter when I saw Mr. Mullens—I asked him if he had got the man—he said he did not know; there were two men over at the Mansion-house, and I must go and see if there was any one I knew—he did not tell me that those men whom I was to go over to see had been taken with the notes; I did not know that—I was not aware to it till they were brought up before the Lord Mayor—I saw them in the private room at the Mansion-house—I should say there were from fifteen to twenty persons in the room with them.
MR. HUDDLLSTON. Q. Were they in different dresses? A. Yes—I identified Clark dirt-etly, without any one pointing him out or looking—I have had 7s. 6d., and been out of service since the 17th April.
TIMOTHY NEWBOILD . I am in service in Gloucester-row. On 18th April I was out of a situation—I put an advertisement into the Times newspaper, with my address, "A. B., at Mr. Clarence's, fruiterer, Church-passage, Piccadilly"—on the following Thursday I received a memorandum, in consequence of which I went to the East India Chambers, Leadenhall-street, on 20th April—I waited in the passage of the chambers, and Bradbury came to me—he asked if I was the young person who was to meet him there at two o'clock—I said, "Yes"—he asked me to walk with him to the corner of Lime-street, which I did; and as we walked he said he wanted me for a gentleman whose name was Bird, who resided near Bromley, in Kent, and who was going on the Continent for six or seven months, and wanted a servant to go with him, and he thought I should suit him—he said he would go and see if Mr. Bird was in town, but he was afraid he was not, as the day had been so wet—he asked me to go to the Custom House, and meet him thereat three, and at the same time gave me a shilling to get some refreshment—I went to the Custom House at three, and met Bradbury at the first door from Billingsgate Market—he said he had been to see, and Mr. Bird was not come to town; but he was authorized by Mr. Bird to engage a servant for him—I asked him twenty-two guineas for wages—he said that was twenty-three pounds, but I need not be particular, the gentleman was a very liberal. man, and he would as lief give me 25l. as 23l.—I told him I should have no objection to that, but I should be satisfied with twenty-two guineas—I was to meet him on Saturday, the 22nd, at eleven—I was there at eleven—he did not come till a quarter-past—he said he was in a hurry, and he made an appointment to meet him again at one, at the middle door at the Custom House, and he gave me 6d.—I went at one—he did not come till a quarter-past—we walked round to the water-side—he said he had got business at the Docks, business at the Custom House, and business in the City—he asked
me if I could do the business for him in the City—I told him, "Yes"—he said it was a check, and rather a heavy one—he said he had a ship lying off the Docks, and they could not get it in till he had got the check cashed—he told me to take it, and if they asked me who I came from, I was to say, Messrs. Hunt and Co.; and if they asked me anything further, I was to say Mr. Thompson had sent me—this is the check he gave me (looking at it)—it was in a bill-case—he took it out and showed it to me—it is for 371l. 7s. 4d.—he gave me a paper which had on it "Three 100l.-notes, one 50l., and 21l. 7s. 4d. in cash"—he asked me how long I should be gone—I told him I thought about half an hour, unless they detained me—I went to Messrs. Lubbocks with the check—they cashed it, and I put the notes into the case—I took back the money to Bradbury, at the Custom House, against the water-side—I gave it to him—he took the notes out of the bill-case and looked at them, and I emptied the money out of my own purse and gave it him—he said he had heard from Mr. Bird, but he would not be in town till four, when he would be at Hatchett's Hotel, in Piccadilly—he told me to meet him there—he gave me a half-a-crown, 6d. to get Bradshaw's Guide, and 2s. for my dinner—he said I was to be there a little before four, but he thought he should not be there till a little after—I went there, and he came, in a cab, about twenty minutes past four—I did not see whether there was anybody else in the cab—he said he had just seen a messenger from Bromley, and that Mr. Bird, while hunting in the morning, had met with a slight accident, and would not be able to come to town till the following Tuesday or Wednesday—he said he must get me to wait till Tuesday or Wednesday to see Mr. Bird—he asked me what would satisfy me to keep me till Tuesday or Wednesday, that I night not look after anything else—he said he would give me a half sovereign, if that would be sufficient—I said I thought it would—he gave me a half-sovereign, and as the cab turned round to go towards the City, I took the number of it—it was 2268—in consequence of an advertisement I afterwards saw in the paper, I went to Mr. Mullens and gave information.
CHARLES CHETHAM LAWRENCE . I am clerk in Lubbock and Co.'s Bank. On Saturday, 22nd April, I cashed this check for 371l. 7s. 4d.—I paid three 100l.-notes, Nos. 42326, 45307, and 36137, all dated 10th Jan., 1848, a 50l.-note, No. 4253, Portsmouth, 23rd Nov., and cash 21l. 7s. 4d.
ROBERT NEATCH . I was a cat-driver. The No. of my cab was 2268—On 22nd April, I was called off the stand in Leadenhall-street, by two persons who I believe were the prisoners, but I cannot swear positively to either of them—I was to drive them to Leicester-square—when I got to the Strand, and was turning up King William-street, the taller one of the two put his head out of the door-window, and asked me where I was going to—I told him to Leicester-square—he said, "I said the Golden Cross, Charing-cross, but never mind put me down at the corner of the next street"—I stopped at the corner of Adelaide-street, he got out there, and told me to take the other gentleman on to Hatchett's Hotel, Piccadilly, and to bring him back to the Tap at the Golden Cross, Charing-cross—I went to Hatchett's Hotel, and set gentleman down—he staid about two minutes, and when he came out he was talking to a young man—he got into the cab, and I drove him to the Golden Cross, where the taller one was waiting—the taller one asked if he had paid me—he said, "No," and he paid me 3s. 6d.
Cross-examined. Q. Am I to understand you to express your belief that
these prisoners are either of the persons? A. I believe them to he both—they are very much like them—I have not said the taller man had black whiskers—I was taken first to the Compter to identify the prisoners—I did not pick out anybody else—I pointed to somebody else—I said, there were two that I thought I had identified—I said there were two that I had never seen before, and I thought I had seen the other two—I would not swear to any of them—I said, "I saw so many persons it was quite impossible for me to recognize them."
J. G. HELLENBERG. re-examined. I am Commissary of Police at Brussels. On 25th April, I went to the station of the Northern Railway, at Brussels—I saw the two prisoners—they took tickets for Ostend—I asked them for their passports—Bradbury said lie had none, but Clark had one from Belgium—told them to accompany me to the Police station—I asked Bradbury what his profession was—he and Clark both said they were gentlemen, and said they lived in London—Bradbury said he lived in Montague-street, Russell-square.
Cross-examined. Q. Were these answers given to questions which you were compelled by the laws of Belgium to ask? A. les—the persons over there are sworn.
RICHARD MULLENS . I am one of the firm of Bush and Mullens, solicitors to the bankers of London. In consequence of directions, I went over to Brussels, on 1st May—I was present on 4th May, when an examination of the two prisoners took place before some legal authorities—Clark was examined first—before any questions were put to him by the Commissary there, a caution was given to him, on my suggestion—the Magistrate said, "Do you recollect what you have already stated about this affair of the bank-notes"—Clark said, "I do"—the Magistrate then said, "I wish to put some further questions to you which you may answer or not just as you please"—(he spoke in French, but there was a sworn interpreter there who translated what the Magistrate said to Clark)—the Magistrate stated that in the terms I have used—Clark said he was ready to answer—I have a note here for 50l., No. 4253, 23rd Nov. Portsmouth, and a 100l. note, No. 24181, 18th Aug. 1847—these notes were shown to Clark, and he was asked if he recognised them as the notes that had been taken from his person at the moment of his arrest—he examined the notes, and said they were—he was asked on what part of his person they were found—he said, in the inside pocket of his flannel uaistcoat—he was asked why he carried the notes in such a place—he said he had once lost a large sum of money, and ever since that time he had always carried his money in a more secure place, in the inside of his waistcoat—he was then asked where he got these two notes from—he said he had them from his companion Bradbury—he was then asked what notes he had changed in Brussels, out of the notes which were then lying on the table, six notes, and one 50l., they are all here—he said, "I changed one of these," and after looking at them, he selected this note, No. 24180, dated 18th Aug. 1847, Newcastle—he said, "I changed that for 118 Frederic d'ors; that is my own; I changed that at a money-changers"—he was then asked if he claimed any of the other notes, which were lying on the table—he said, "No, these do not belong to me"—he was asked how he became acquainted with Bradbury—he said he never saw him before they met at Dover—he was then asked where he got the 100l.-note, which iie acknowledged he had changed—he said from a person at Dover, to whom he gave small notes for it—he was then shown the Times newspaper of 28th April, in which the numbers of the notes appeared, including No. 24180—after noticing that, he
looked at the note again, and said, "If that note is in that advertisement, I am sure that is not the note that I changed"—he was then asked what note it was, he would acknowledge to have changed—he said, "The note I changed was dated 1847, but it was an older note, and I think, rumpled"—he was then asked where he got the notes from, which he had given in exchange for the 100l. note, at Dover—he said, "I cannot say where I got those notes, but I could if I had my book"—he was asked where his books were—he said they were at home—he was asked where his home was—he said, "I will not say where that is, because I should disgrace my family"—he was then asked, whether he knew who the person was from whom he received the 100l. note—he said he did not; he had met the person by accident, on the Quay, at Dover—his attention was called to some notes which had been taken from his person, but there were other notes produced, which were brought by different money-changers, in Brussels—Bradbury was then called in, and the same caution was given to him that had been given to Clark, and translated in the same way by the interpreter—his attention was directed to the whole of the notes that I have produced to-day, Nos. 45307, 42326, 36137, 38273, 2, 180, 24181—he said, "I received them from Mr. Bullock, 114, Yardley-sreet, King's-road, Chelsea, he gave them to me on Saturday, 22nd April, on the Quay, at Dover; the property which has been seized by the police is not mine but Mr. Bullock's; I received them on the Quay, and at the same time seven 100l. notes; these are the notes—that is my writing—I know them. by that"—the name, "J. H. Bradbury," was written on several of them—he said, "The 50l. note, found on Clark, I gave him"—he was asked whether the note, 4253, was the same—he said, "I should not like to claim it, but I suppose it must be mine"—he said, "I gave Bullock fifty sovereigns for it"—he made that observation on being shown the advertisement in the news-paper—the Magistrate asked him, whether he had not made a mistake in saying Mr. Bullock had given it him, and whether it was not Mr. Lubbock gave it him—he answered that laughing, and said, "No "—Mr. Bullock had given it him—he said Mr. Bullock was in the Manchester trade, that he was then on the Rhine; that Mr. Bullock gave him the notes to get changed for him, and to take the proceeds to England—he said he believed he had something to do in the smuggling way, that he himself had been a smuggler for some time—he said he lived in Montague-street, Russell-square, but would not state the number.
Cross-examined. Q. Bradbury was shown the whole of the notes you have here? A. Yes—these are the whole of the notes that have been found as the result of the forgeries—there is one note that we have not yet found—we know in what quarter it is gone—it is gone up the Rhine—Clark said there was another note—I am not aware of it—one of the money-changers was not sure whether Clark had changed two notes or one—he said he had taken two 100l. notes about the same time, and he was not certain whether they both came from the same person—3170 francs were given up to Clark—they amounted to about 125l.—100l. was supposed to be the proceeds of a note changed at Brussels—he was put on board the steam-boat, by the Belgium authorities—part of the money was taken from him by Forrester.
JOHN FORRESTER . I am an officer. I took the prisoners in custody on 7th May, on board the Soho steamer—I found some money on each of the prisoners—I made inquiry for a person named Bullock, and I looked for Yardley-strect, Chelsea—I could not find any such place, or any person of the name of Bullock there, or anywhere.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you sure he is the same man? A. Yes—I do not know what he was—he occupied a house and stable, and had a little horse.
COURT. Q. Did you ever know him answer to the name of Perkins? A. Oh, yes, many a time.
J. G. HELLENKERG. re-examined. Q. Did you find anything besides the notes on Clark? A. Yes, some whiskers and some green spectacles—I asked him why he wore them—he said, "To frighten children;" if you life up the wig which he wears, you will find an eye to hold this hook on these whiskers.
(William Tunnell, a watchmaker, at Deptford, and John Potts, a hairdresser, gave Clark a good character.)
CLARK— GUILTY . Aged 35.— Transported for Twenty Years .
OLD COURT.—Monday, July 10th, 1848.
PRESENT—Lord Chief Justice WILDE; Sir CHAPMAN MARSHALL, Knt., Ald.; Mr. Ald GIBBS; Sir GEORGE CARROLL, Knt., Aid.; and Mr. Ald LAWRENCE.
Before Mr. Justice Wilde and the Fifth Jury.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL, MESSRS. WELSBY, BODKIN, and CLERK, conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES WHITE . I am a short-hand writer. On Sunday, 4th June, I attended a Chartist meeting held in Bonner's-fields, which is a large open common or green—there had previously been a meeting of the Irish Confederates that afternoon—the Chartist meeting began at a quarter to six o'clock—there were about 3, 000 people present at the meeting, and a larger number scattered over the place—many of them had remained from the former meeting—there was no chairman appointed—Sharpe first addressed the meeting—I took a note of what he said; this is it:—" My friends, you can perceive that I have kept my promise; and on yesterday morning several parties, who pledged their words to attend this meeting, I expected here; but if some men, in the time of anticipated danger, will not come forward, it is necessary that some one should; and as I have been here during the calm, I am prepared to be here when the storm comes on. This being the most stormy time I have kept my word, and consequently I am prepared to make a few more remarks. You will, perhaps, not consider that I am actuated by any motives of fear, when I tell you, and when I find that I stand alone, I shall not give the Government the horscu hipping that I promised them; but still I will address you. While I was speaking to you this afternoon, in reference to the various meetings that had taken place in London during this last week"—(cries of 'Ernest Jones! Ernest Jones!')—Mr. Jones appeared in about a minute or two after,
not then. "Gentlemen, I believe there is Ernest Jones coming. Friends, I am very glad to find that Mr. Jones has not run away from the post of danaer; and when I made my remarks previous to his coming, I did not include him in the list, but I included those men that had addressed you Sunday after Sunday for many weeks; and I do not think that it is consistent of men, while we can talk quietly together, that they should desert their post, as I have observed before, when there is something like an anticipated danger. I will not detain you long, because I know that you are desirous to listen to Mr. Jones. Now, my friends, I wish to speak to you with reference to the unnecessary interference of the police this morning, with a number of working men who attended a meeting at Nova Scotia Fields. It is well known that we have met there for about four or five Sundays; we have discussed our grievances, and the men have quietly dispersed; but what with the tyranny of the Government, and the officiousness of the police, I understand they came there this morning, and abused, and insulted, and brutalised the great majority of the men who had there assembled. I understand that the people acted the part of cowards, and do not blame me when I say so. I was not present, because I was at another meeting, on Blackheath. The people, I understand, ran away—(a voice: 'The people had nothing to defend themselves with.') The gentleman says the people had nothing to defend themselves with. Now, if ever you come in contact, Sir, with the police, you must expect a knock-down blow with their truncheon; but when you have about three to one, one man falls out of three, and the other two can secure him. Now, will any man tell me I am wrong when I say that you acted the part of cowards when you ran away? What was the consequence? This morning, when I was at Black heath, there were five inspectors pointed out to me; there was a number of special constables, and likewise a number of sergeants, and of other men connected with the force, all in private clothes, pointed out; and some of them said, 'For God's sake, Sharpe, be careful what you say.' I consider I am always, because I am always desirous to speak the truth; and when I speak the truth I state what I mean; when I tell men what they should do, it is what I am prepared to do myself, believing that what I stated is all that is required to carry out our ends; and consequently, if you are men, and determined to establish your rights, that you should embrace the opportunity when it presents itself. Now, then, with regard to the meeting that took place on last Wednesday evening, on Clerkenwell-green, I was absent, because I was at Greenwich, the same as I was on the. Monday; and in the words of the Times they certainly were men of the right sort—men who, under any circumstances, if attacked by the police, would be the vanguard and destroy them. Those are the men of Greenwich, and I trust that the men of the Tower Hamlets will not be behind them, Now my friends, I live at a dairy myself; I wish to give you a little instruction—it is an idea of how many of these men are situated that address public meetings during the so-called turbulent time. I live at a dairy; and a I stopped at Greenwich last Wednesday night, I did not go home till the Thursday morning; but of course my wife, like every other woman anxious for the welfare of her husband, sat up for me. A man came to my house at eleven o'clock on Wednesday night, and wanted a gallon of milk very particularly; but she told him that the man would not get up to serve it, and he consequently went away. At one in the morning, (my wife still sitting up for me, and in great anxiety,) two men came past, and said they must have milk, and
demanded it. After a great deal of persuasion, the bell which led to the man's chamber was rung; he got up, and the man put the question to him, 'What the devil do you want the milk for? 'Oh!' says he, it is wanted; the specials are ordered out for two o'clock in the morning, and they want their breakfast before they go out.' I treat the specials with the same contempt as I do the police, because I consider the united force of the working classes of England will destroy that petty power which they hold at the hands of the Government at the present time; and I do hope that you wiil act as men, not be scared at the sight of a policeman or a special. I trust not; but if ever they insult you, if ever they brutalize you, if ever they strike you, act upon the defensive; and if you cannot knock them down, close with them, and do the best that you possibly can; for I can tell you no more nor less than this, it is only man to man, and sometimes it is a little man to big man, and sometimes it is a big man to a big man, so that, consequently, you stand an equal chance to each other; he has a staff and youhave not, therefore it is just possible that you, using your strength, might dispossess him of that staff, and make as good use of it as he did himself. You are aware that I have addressed you previously this afternoon, and Mr. Ernest Jones is anxious to address you; and I am very glad, in the presence of my friend Jones, that I have proved what I stated to him yesterday, that there would be from 20, 000 to 30, 000 people at this meeting; and I hope that when he gets up, he will grant to me that I have at least spoken the truth for once." Ernest Jones then addressed the meeting—he spoke from a chair that was placed on a natural mound—he spoke thus:—" Mr. Chairman and men of the Tower Hamlets,—In the first place I have to apologize to you for not having been here sooner; but a man cannot be at two places at the same time. There was a meeting announced for Irongate Wharf, Paddington, and the police, I understand, had forbid that meeting taking place. I was invited to attend it, and therefore I did attend it. There were a good many police there, but they did not venture to interfere with the meeting; and I can tell you this, hold your meetings; for although the Government certainly are mad, they are not mad enough to put down public meetings; and if they were mad enough to do it, I for one hurl defiance in their teeth, and dare them to disperse this legal and peaceable assembly. I must ask likewise for your indulgence to-day, inasmuch as I start by the mail-train to-night for Lancashire and Yorkshire; and as those places are both in a very excited state, I shall have to use my lungs there a good deal; and as London is not so excited as those parts of the country are, excuse me from wearying you at any great length to-day. All that I say is this, stand fast by your colours; do not shrink from the Charter, and the whole Charter; do not mind the nonsense of the half-and-half men; do not pay any attention to the Dispatch; and if you see any bodies of police coming near to this meeting, marching on to this meeting, stand your ground, shoulder by shoulder. Do not run; there is danger for those who run; there is safety for those who keep together. Dare them to strike you, and my word for it, they dare not strike a blow. If they were to strike a blow, bad as the laws are now, still they are sufficiently stringent to punish those men who assault peaceable citizens in the peaceable execution or performance of their duty. In nine cases out of ten it is your own fault, it is your own cowardice that invites others to strike a blow, it is men saying, 'We will not do this, we will not do that, because it is forbid.' Make up your minds, stand by it, and whatever comes, stand to your ground. There cannot be more heads broken than are broken on those occasions when
men run away. All I say is, that the Government are desirous of marring the performance of your present great duty—that duty is organization. I have not been amongst you for some little time. Where are your classes? Have you pot your wardmotes? I Have you got your class-leaders? Have you perfected your organization? If not, call public meetings, and elect the class-leaders at those public meetings; do not let the class be formed before you have the class-leaders. You will find it much more easy to form class after the class-leader is appointed; for if you form classes, and then afterwards appoint the class-leader, you may spend two or three hours or more upon the formation of every class, and can never come to a fixed determination with regard to it, as one man will live here and another there. Elect the class-leader; the class-leader then knows the men likely to form the class living in his neighbourhood; he will go to those men and invite them; and there can be no dictation, no assumption of that power, because you all elect the class-leaders at the public meetings. Rest assured, if each locality elects about 100 class-leaders, you will soon have 1, 000 men under the banner. That is the way to get up the organization; and then you may elect wardmotcs—one out of ten will be a wardmote. Commence at the foundation right, namely, the classes and the wards; all the rest will follow of itself as a matter of course. Begin by forming your classes. It is no use coming among you, when there is no organization; and it is not the Executive that can get up the organization. The Executive cannot go to each locality, and get up the organization of each locality—it nust be the men in the localities. Show us your organization, and you will have a glorious opportunity on the 12th. Prepare in the mean time. Show us your organization then, and depend upon it we will show you some very feasible means for getting nearer to your rights; depend upon it we will not be backward. Show us your organization, and depend upon it you will not have to make one false step, depend upon it you will not be called to undertake any one step that you will not be fully prepared to carry out, and that the officers that you entrust with office will not lead you in the carrying out of. Steer clear of all partial outbreak and partial rioting. There has been an outbreak at Bradford and Manchester. We sent down Dr. M'Douall, who is now addressing a glorious meeting at Paddington, to tell them to have no partial outbreak—no partial riot. That is just what the Government wants. In a riot of that kind they immediately seize upon the leading men; they will immediately cripple the organization, and your organization will be thrown back. Go on organizing, organizing, organizing, and the rest will come, never fear it. And there is one thing more that is wanted, which is funds—funds are wanted. Without funds, the organization is of little use. The country is beginning to do its duty nobly, and that is a great test of public feeling. But mark you, suppose that it was true, as we heard last night, that the fighting had begun in Dublin—suppose that it is true, as we heard last night, that Government has ordered the daily papers not to say one word of insurrectionary news from Dublin, so that this country is kept in the dark about it—suppose that it should be necessary that we should send a man over to see with his awn eyes, and to hear with his own ears, and thus breathe defiance to the lying press. Suppose that this should be all necessary, and suppose that we have not got the money to send that man over, see What danger the movement runs; see how the movement might be thrown back and injured, from the mere consequence of not having a few paltry pounds wherewith to pay a messenger, a trusty messenger, to ratify the bond
of union between the English and the Irish people. Union, I say, of sentiment—union of democracy, but separation from a yoke which binds the one nation in the thraldom of the other. I sav you must excuse me, if I do not: address you at great length, as I am about to start to-night bv the mail-train. Rest assured that I will be struggling in your cause in Bradford, in Halifax, in Manchester, and in the other places where storm and turbulence is now going on. Rest assured that I shall not preach a miserable namby pamby doctrine of non-resistance and passive obedience; but at the same time I shall preach a doctrine of manly firmness, and of no hot—headed impetuositv. But if you mean to do a thing, see well first if you have the power to do it; and then, having made up vour minds, do not let even death itself prevent you from carrying it into effect. I shall be able to send you" good news one way or the other. Good news from the north, from Yorkshire, and from Lancashire, namely, the news will be that we have got such an organization spreading there—the news will be that there is such a spirit spreading there, that success must be the certain result. Recollect one thing, gentlemen; part of the West Riding has got the true spirit in its heart, but two great towns stand like an incubus upon the West Riding, namely, Leeds and Sheffield, which are torpid and apathetic. My duty will be to endeavour to get Leeds and Sheffield up to that mark to which Bradford and Halifax are now. I believe that the feeling of the men of Leeds is the true feeling in reality; but men have been preaching among them for a long time an unconditional peace doctrine. Those men are mistaken men; for though I talk not now of insurrection, I say this as to a peace doctrine, there shall be no peace in the country as long as I for one humble individual can prevent it, until the poor man has his rights, and until the rich man has brought his nose to the grindstone. They are trying to sow dissension and mistrust between you and those men whom you have honoured with the advocacy of your cause. The Dispatch tells you that the mantle of Oliver and Cashes "—(in my original notes I hare got it "Oliver Cromwell," but I was corrected by the defendant before the Magistrate, and he changed it to "Oliver and Castles ")—" has descended on my shoulders, and it tells you that I was a Tory ten years ago. It lies. I fought three times for those principles which I uphold now, and I can give. the Dispatch a proof, if it requires it, that J bear one of the bayonet wounds of the King of Hanover's soldiers about mv person at the present moment. Well, again, there is Cobden, who tells you that demagogues are going about, disturbing and breaking into the middle-class movement; and he says in his letter to the Daily News, that the individuals who go about disturbing those meetings, have got the wages of despotism in their pockets. Ask Mr. Cobden where are the 70, 000l. that were given to him? Ask him where did he get them from, and what did he get them for? and tell him, at least, that the wages of despotism are in his pocket, if he dares to accuse honester men than himself of having the wages of despotism in their pockets. And again, when Cobden the other night challenged the Chartist myrmidons, as he called them, with daring to confront him, why did he, when at the London Tavern, not get up on that platform, instead of sneaking among the reporters as he did I Recollect tin's that their game, their plan is this, to sow mistrust among the various branches of our organization; to make you believe that if you help them, you will gain afterwards your result. But they cannot deny this, that if you help them they will gain their object. Now, why should your pupils—for you have taught them—why should they, your pupils, gain what they want at once, while you have been so many years struggling for and have not gained it
yet? No, my friends, stand by your own cause. They say they can prevent you from putting the wedge in the rotten phalanx of power. We are strong enough to split it up at one blow altogether, without waiting to put a middle-closs milk-sop wedge in. You will recollect the story of the farmer, whose field was overrun with thistles, and he wished to destroy the thistles; and what did he do? he cut off the tops of them, and the thistles spouted out more luxuriantly than ever. But there came another farmer, and that man was a Chartist; and what did he say? he said, dig them up by the roots. The middle classes are cutting the tops of the thistles, and they will sprout up more luxuriantly now with labour than ever. I want you to take the spade and the hoe to them, and to root up the noxious weed altogether. When you have once destroyed it, it never comes again. Organize—organize—organize! Dr. M'Douell will remain here amongst you; and on Whit-Monday come up in your classes, come up in your wards. Give them such a display as they sever had before. Give them at least another Kennington (but not on Kensington-common) meeting, at all events; show them your organization. I trust that much may be done between this and the 12th; and no doubt on the 12th your movement will make an advance again, the same as it did on the 10th April last; only a greater and a better advance. Now, my friends, I bid you farewell. My friend, Sharpe, wishes to say a few words to you on something particular. Now, that I am going off, shall I tell the men of Bradford—shall I tell the men of Halifax, who acted so gloriously and who acted so gallantly—shall I tell the men of Manchester, who made the piece-mongering [blank] skip over a garden wall—shall I tell the men of York—shall I tell the men of Leeds—shall I tell the men of the West Riding—shall I tell them that London is determined to do its duty? Because, recollect, they are looking to the metropolis—they are looking to you. I verily believe that not a single blow need be struck for liberty in this country. I "believe that in Ireland it must be struck; and what is more, I believe in Ireland it will be struck. But whatever may be the consequence, organize—organize—organize! and prepare for anything. Only preparation—only organization is wanted, and the green flag shall float over Downing-street and St. Stephen's. Only energy is wanted—only determination—and what will be the result? Why, that John Mitchell and Frost will be brought back, and Sir George Grey and Lord John Russell will be sent to change places with them."
Q. In what manner was this speech received by the meeting? A. It was received with "hear, hear," and cheers, at various places which are marked, but I did not think it necessary to read them—he left immediately he had done speaking, and Sharpe again addressed a few words to the meeting—he said, "My friends, I shall not detain you at any length; as usual when this meeting is concluded, I intend to adjourn to the Prince Albert for the purpose of enrolling names, and as Mr. Jones has told you that you should organize, I exhort you likewise to do so, and we have the plans of organization at the Prince Albert, that you can have for a 1/2 d. each, so that all persons who are sincere, and who are desirous to carry out Chartism; if they will only adjourn to the Prince Albert, they can have the plan of organization, and all those who in any locality want these plans can have them at half-a-crown per 100, and sell them at what price they like, and realize a profit to increase their funds. Only one remark more, and that is this, the Press has endeavoured to make the public believe that Chartism is dead; I would merely wish to state this—that Chartism is alive and kicking, and that ere long it will kick the damnable Whigs out of office; I adjourn to the Prince Albert, no procession."
Q. I believe that concluded the speeches? A. It did—I then went to the City of Paris Inn, and remained there about half an hour—while there I heard a cry that the police were charging the people—I went to the window but I did not see the origin of the disturbance—I saw the people running in all directions, and the police after them.
Cross-examined by MR. SERJEANT WILKINS. Q. You attended both meetings, I believe? A. I did—I had every accommodation afforded me by the people of the meeting for the purpose of reporting—I applied for it, and obtained it—Sharpe sent for a table for me, and I sat on the chair on which the speaker stood—I was not an inch from Jones while he was speaking—he must have seen me—I sat down close to the back of his heel—there were a great many pleasure-taking people on the ground—well dressed ladies, gentlemen, and children.
Q. In the course of the afternoon, while the meetings were being held, was there any minister of religion preaching there? A. There was, but not within hearing of the Chartist meeting—he was on the same ground—he had a congregation round him—I thought it was the Chartist meeting when I first got there—he was under a tree in the open air—I conclude there would be praying and preaching—he was preaching when I got on the ground, and I was there from thirty-five to forty minutes before the Chartist meeting commenced—he was preaching all that time—he continued to preach during the time of the meeting, but he lost a good number of his bearers—they came to hear something about the Charter.
Q. Now during the whole time that the speaking was going forward, did the people behave themselves well, and peaceably, and orderly? A. Yes—I attended the Kennington-common meeting at which Mr. Jones spoke—I have not been at any others at which Jones has spoken—I have been at the outdoor meetings—Mr. Jones endeavoured to keep the people off when they pressed on me—he stood close to the table, and I rather think he removed a man from the table in order that I should not be interrupted—there was every facility given.
MR. WELSBY. Q. You say you attended the 10th April meeting? A. I did—Jones addressed the people there—he rruist have been aware on whose behalf I reported this meeting, because I was first of all at the National Convention, and afterwards at the Assembly every other day nearly, during the whole-time it sat, and there every delegate in the kingdom knew me—I do not know that Mr. Jones was aware that I came to report on behalf of the Government, but I of course conclude so, because we were so much together at the Convention—there were four shorthand-writers there on alternate days, and he saw us there—I infer that he knew I came from the Government—I do not recollect that I have been a other meetings where he was present, but did not speak—he was a delegate—I know nothing about the Executive—I believe no Executive was appointed there.
MR. SERJEANT WILKINS. Q. How do you know he was a delegate? A. Because everv delegate who came from the country brought credentials, and on the first occasion of meeting, the credentials of every delegate were read to the meeting—I did not set Mr. Jones's credentials, but I believe I heard them read—I know that no man was admitted there except as a member for the time being—if he came without his credentials he was not allowed to take any part in the meeting before they arrived, unless it was moved and seconded that he should be permitted to do so—Mr. Jones spoke repeatediv in the Convention—everybody spoke—they had five minute turns.
the two meetings on 4th June, one at three o'clock, which lasted till half-past five, and another which commenced at half-past five and lasted till seven—preparations were made by the police for a meeting on 12th June, which was Whit-Monday—we were instructed to be in readiness—many of the military were brought out—such handbills as these were posted throughout the whole of London—(this being read, was a placard signed by the Commissioners of Police, cautioning persons against attending the meeting on 12th June.)
Cross-examined. Q. There was no meeting on the 12th? A. No—there was a small meeting at Stepney-green.
JOHN HAYNES . I am an inspector of the Detective Police. I was at a meeting at Bradford, on Monday, 29th May—there was a disturbance there—it was of such a nature that the military were obliged to be called out—there were no lives lost—there were some people wounded—seventeen or eighteen persons were taken into custody—the special constables, and police, went there for the purpose of apprehending a quantity of people, and they were stoned and driven back, and were obliged to call out the military to assist in apprehending them.
GUILTY . Aged 29.— Confined Two Years , and in enter into his own recognizance in 200l., and find two sureties in 150l. each, to keep the peace for five years.
Before Mr. Recorder.
WILLIAM CHALLIS . I am a labourer, at Wanstead. On 29th June, in the middle of the day, I saw the prisoner ran from the Forest—I heard some geese, and then saw the prisoner and two others running—I was within fourteen yards of him, and saw him strike a goose three times with this stick—he ran forty yards backwards and forwards with it, knocked it down, picked it up, and ran sis or seven yards with it—I caught him, and gave him in charge with it—the others ran away—one of them dropped an empty basket which would hold a goose.
Prisoner's Defence. The goose strutted after me, with its mouth open. I hit it—a man ran after me—the watch is my father's.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Edward Bollock, Esq.
CHARLES MARSDEN . I am in the service of Thomas Fowell Buxton. I received information from Squires, and on 26th June went to the prisoner at his house, and accused him of taking two trusses of hay and straw—he denied it—I said that was no use, for I knew a person who saw him take it, and if he did not bring it back by ten o'clock that night, I should send some one after him—he brought a truss of hay back, and said that was all he had taken.
Cross-examined by MR. PARNELL. Q. What is he? A. A thatcher. He
had set some stacks up, and thatched them—these were bundles, not trusses—it is what is used for thatching—he did not say it was what he had been using, and he thought he might take it away—I am not sure I did not say if he brought it back, nothing should be said about it—Mr. Buxton owed him more than 1l. for what he had done—he has been out on bail—the prisoner was with Mr. Buxton four years—he was there before I came—he has always been honest.
WILLIAM SQUIRES . I am under-gardener to Mr. Buxton. About half-past three o'clock, on 26th June, I saw the prisoner leave the yard with some hay and straw—I had seen the straw in the pigstye, and the hay in a cart at eleven—it was Mr. Buxton's—Marsden went after him.
Cross-examined. Q. Was this in the parish of Leytonstone? A. Leyton—the prisoner might have been in to trim the stack—the cowshed and pigstye are near it—I and he have had a few words—there is no malice on my side; we have never had blows—there may have been a little talk about it—it was about three weeks ago—it has not been repeated.
WILLIAM MILES . (policeman.) I took the prisoner, and read the warrant to him—he said he expected to hear about it, and afterwards he did not expect to hear about it, and that Marsden had said there would be no more said about it.
Cross-examined. Q. How long have you known him I A. Twc years—I never knew anything wrong of him.
Cross-examined. Q. Is there not Leyton parish as well A. believe not. (The prisoner received a good character.)
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
** GUILTY . Aged 29.— Transported for Seven Years .
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Three Months .
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Was he taken in the room? A. He had been out—there was a cry in the room about it before he went out—I put it on the table for a young woman to fetch me a pint of half-and-half—there was no bet—there was no dispute with Mitchell—I saw no row—I was not in the room a quarter of an hour—I did not take off the prisoner's hat, or do anything to him—I did not put the money down to spend a shilling to his shilling.
Crosx-examined. Q. How many persons were there? A. I cannot tell—there were only three about the table—I am servant there—I did not bear any bet, or anything about a shilling—there was no dispute—I was not there
ten minutes—I did not see the prisoner's hat struck—Pyner asked the prisoner for the half-crown—he would not give it him—Pyner went to the station for a policeman—the prisoner went out, and came in soon after, and said he had been to the station.
Prisoner. I did not know what I was doing.
GUILTY .— Confined Three Days .
Before Mr. Recorder.
JAMES EDWARD HALL . (policeman, K 336.) On the evening of 17th June, I was in a field near Mr. Edward Campion's farm, Barking side, Essex. I saw tie prisoner, and asked what he had in his breast—he said what he had was his own—I asked him to let me see it—he would not—I put my hand under his smock-frock, and took out this bag with beans and bran in it—I gave him in custody of Dennett.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Have you measured it? A. Yes, here are two quarts of it—I asked him where be worked—he said for Mr. Campion, of Barking Side.
JOHN DENNETT . (policeman, K 69.) I had the prisoner in custody—he asked me to let him go—I said I could do no such thing—he said, "You know where I got the beans from"—I said I did not—he said, "I got them from my master's, I took them from the corn-bin in the stable "—he said that he took them to feed his pig.
Cross-examined. Q. Have you always said he said he took them from the corn-bin? A. Yes, it was after he was left in my custody by Hall.
WILLIAM BOND . I am foreman to Mr. Edward Campion. The prisoner was his horsekeeper—I have compared these split beans and bran with the sample in the bin, which was in his care—I firmly believe they are the same.
Cross-examined. Q. He has been many years in Mr. Campion's employ? A. Eleven years off and en—I never knew anything wrong of him before—these beans and bran are worth 4d.—he was admitted to bail.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Confined Seven Days .
Before Mr. Recorder.
GUILTY . ** Aged 37.— Confined Nine Months .
Before Edward Bullock, Esq.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
JOSHUA MORRISS . I am an officer of John Ashley Warre, Esq., Sheriff of Kent. I have employed the prisoner as possession-man—on 22nd May I Io°k possession of the property of Joseph Colin Fletcher, of 14, Bennett-Place, Trafalgar-row, Greenwich, and left the prisoner in possession on Monday
morning, 26th June—in consequence of information, I went there with Arthur, who brought this copper tank with him—(produced)—he asked Robe if he had been out on Saturday evening—he denied it, and then said be had—I have a very imperfect recollection of the conversation—Robe left the room—Arthur followed him—afterwards he came back, and took from his waistcoat-pocket this silver spoon (produced,) and handed it to a person who was also in possession under the bankruptcy—he had no right to have it in his pocket—I did not hear what he said to the man—Arthur took it, and took him to the station—he knew well that it was his duty to protect the; property, and not take anything—he has been a possession-man for years—he afterwards said Mr. Fletcher had given it to him.
JOSEPH COLIN FLETCHER . The Sheriff seized my property on 22nd May—I gave the prisoner some old clothes and bottles—I cannot say whether this tank was among them—I was not aware I was not allowed to do so, and he did not tell me so—this spoon has no mark on it—I did not give it him—it is similar to mine—mine was in a cruet—I do not know whether the skillet is mine.
WILLIAM TOOKEY . I am a marine-store dealer at Trafalgar-row, Greenwich. On 24th June, about nine o'clock, the prisoner came and asked if I bought copper—I said, "Yes"—in about five minutes he came with this tank in a handkerchief or basket—I gave him lad. for it, as old metal—it is not perfect—in about five or ten minutes he came again, with something in a basket, and a copper skillet; but I would not look at it, as the gas was put out, and I heard he was in possession of Mr. Fletcher's house—on the Monday morning I took the tank to the station, and then went to Morriss'.
WILLIAM THOMAS ARTHUR . (policeman.) On 26th June I received this tank from Tookey—I went with Morriss to Mr. Fletcher's, and asked the prisoner if he had been out on Saturday night—he said, "Yes, over to the Lord Nelson, for some beer"—I said, "Did you go out to sell anything?"—after a little confusion, he said, yes, he had sold a sort of copper tank at a place just below—I said, "Did you go to sell anything else?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Be sure;" and in a minute or two he said he had taken a sort of stew-pan, but did not sell it—he ran into the kitchen, I followed him, he came up again, took a mustard-spoon from his waistcoat-pocket, and handed it to the other man in possession, saying, "You see to that, it belongs to the cruet's"—he got hold of one end, and" I of the other—all Mr. Fletcher's plate was of the shell pattern.
Prisoner's Defence. An inventory had been taken; this spoon was not included; I put it into my pocket, and kept possession of it, as it was not in the sale.
(The prisoner received a good character.) GUILTY. Aged 24.—Recommended to mercy. — Confined Four Months .
CHARLES O'CONNOR . I am a private in the Royal Artillery-barracks, Woolwich. On I 16th June, John Wright, a hawker, came there with goods for sale—the prisoner was there, and took two purses from the man's box to look at—they were 6d. each—he put down 6d. for one, but walked away with them both—I pointed out the prisoner to the hawker.
JAMES CHARD . I am a private of the Artillery. On 16th June I was in the barracks, and saw the prisoner take two purses—he walked to the other end of the room with them, opened the waistband of his trowsers, and put one in—he
carried the other openly in his hand—I charged him with taking the two
GUILTY .— Confined Four Months .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Do you know Lyons? A. Yes—she came to our house occasionally to char—some of my mother's things were found at Lyons' premises.
Cross-examined. Q. Were any of them pawned?A. none of these, but some others were.
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutrix. — Confined Three Days .
MR. STEEL. conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM DYER . On 17th June the prisoners came to my shop, at Deptford—they asked for a pair of slippers each—I fitted each, of them with, a pair at 1s. 6d.—Webb went out about a minute before Ganey—when they fere gone I missed a pair of boots from the back of the chair, where I had placed them about a minute before the prisoners came—I sent a policeman liter the prisoners, but he could not find them that night—on the Monday morning they came again to change the slippers—I said, "You are the persons who stole my boots"—these are the boots.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. Where were they? A. In the show-room, on the back of the chair on which Webb had sat—they have my mark on them—they are the only pair that were in that room—I had other customers that evening.
ELIZA ANN STEWART . I live at Deptford. On 17th June the prisoners came to me—Webb offered me these boots—I asked where she got them, as they were too large for her—she said she found them in the Broadway—I at last bought them of her for 3s., as she pleaded so hard for her family.
Cross-examined. Q. Was any rent due from Ganey to you? A. Yes—they both lodge in my house.
WEBB— GUILTY . Aged 24.
GANEY— GUILTY . Aged 23.
Confined four Months .
cheese—I missed three shirts—these are two of them—they are my master's who lives at Deptford.
ROBERT WILSON . I am a clothes' dealer. On 12th April I bought these three shirts for 1s. 6d.—they were not wet, but I do not think they had been ironed—I believe the prisoner to be the man, but could not swear to him—he gave the name of Robert Downing, and wrote it down in the book.
THOMAS COOK . On 12th April, in the afternoon, the prisoner came and asked if I would buy three shirts—they were roagh-dry—he said his brother gave them to him—I said, "He would not have given them to you rough-dry, you stole them"—these are two of them.
Prisoner's Defence. A gentleman gave me them.
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Three Months .
Before Mr. Recorder.
1743. JOHN FAULKNER , stealing 2 connecting-screws, value 35.; the goods of our Lady the Queen, in a barge on the Thames: also, 25lbs. weight of rope, value 3s.; the goods of Duncan Dunbar, in a barge on the Thames; to which he pleaded
GUILTY .— Confined Two Months .
GUILTY . Aged 63.— Confined Six Months .
DAVID REES . I am a greengrocer and milkman, in Church-street, Greenwich. About half-past six o'clock in the morning, on 26th June, I left my milk-cans at the corner of Dunford-street, and my great coat over them—I missed my coat—this is it—(produced.)
Prisoner. I was not out of the Greenwich Union before seven o'clock.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Days, and Whipped .
Before Mr. Recorder.
1746. ALFRED BISHOP , stealing 1 watch, 2 seals, and 1 key, value 3l. and 3l. in money; the property of William Osmond, in his dwelling-house: and 1 ring, 1l.; the goods of Sarah Ann Leonard;to which he pleaded
GUILTY. Recommended to mercy. Aged 26.— Judgment respited.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Twelve Months .
1748. CHARLES CHAPMAN , burglary in the dwelling-house of Thomas Charles Clarkson, and stealing 2 gowns, value 2l.; his property: and 1 envelope-case, 5s.; the goods of Eliza Clarkson; having been before convicted; to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Transported for Ten Years .
Belore Edward Bullock, Esq.
BEARD pleaded GUILTY. Aged 13. DAVIS pleaded GUILTY . Aged 20.
Confined Twelve Months .
PATRICK BRAZIER . On 30th June I went into the Clapham Union Work-Louse, at Wandsworth—I then had 7s. and six sixpences, wrapped up in a rag, and a halfpenny loose, all in my trowser's pocket—it had been raised by my friends, to send me to Ireland—I went into a room at the workhouse where there were several persons—the four prisoners are some of them—I laid down in my clothes, and went to sleep—I awoke, and found Beard feeling my pocket—he then went and told the other people that I had some half-crowns, shillings, and sixpences; and a little while after that five or six of them attacked me—Beard and Davis were there; they are the only once I can speak to—I got away from them—the others did not take any part in it—they then made a second attack on me, ten or fifteen of them collected round me, chucked the rug round my head, threw me down, and tore my money away from my side-pocket—I can only speak to Beard and Davis.
ALBERT SMITH . I slept in the same ward as Brazier and all four of the prisoners. About half-past three o'clock in the morning I saw Beard put his hand into Brazier's pocket and take out a halfpenny—he said there were half-crowns, shillings, and sixpences there, and he would have them before he went out—they rushed on him, and tried to get the money away from him—Davis was one of them, and I saw Jones and Collins scrambling after the money—Collins had a shilling, which he put into his pocket; but I do not know whether it belonged to Brazier or not—Jones had a shilling, and he snatched another one from another man.
GEORGE GLOSSOP . I was in the workhouse. I was awoke by the noise, and saw Collins and Jones—I saw one of them strike Brazier, and force him away from the door when he was going to alarm the people outside—Davis cut Brazier's pocket, and got the money, and afterwards there was a general scramble for it—Jones received Is. from Davis—I afterwards saw Collins strike and kick Brazier, and he said he brought a disgrace on his country.
COLLINS and JONES- NOT GUILTY .
1750. JAMES CANNON and JOSEPH GOBBETT , feloniously and sacrilegeously breaking and entering the Church of St. Mary Magdalene, Southwark, and stealing 2 surplices, 2 candlesticks, 3 pints of wine, and other articles, value 5l. 19s. 8d.; the goods of Joseph Rutland and another; Gobbett having been before convicted.
in bed—I found three pieces of lawn and two bags, and in the water-closet a duplicate of a shirt (produced.)
JOHN-RADCLIFFE (policeman, P 27,) I went with Gardner, and found several pieces of lawn cut up, and a piece of carpet, which agreed with the carpet in the vestry of St. Mary Magdalene Church, which is in the parish of St. George-the-Martyr, Southwark.
MARTHA HEFFORD . I am pew-opener at this Church. Mr. Joseph Rutland and Mr. Baker are the churchwardens—these things were safe on the night of the 11th—I left the Church last, and locked it—these things were then in their places—I went next morning, at ten o'clock, and found the vestry door open, and the lock off—I missed these things from different parts—I know them well.
Gobbett's Defence. I gave a sovereign for the things.
(Cannon received a good character.)
GOBBETT— GUILTY .— Transported for Seven Years .
CANNON— GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months .
GUILTY of an Assault . Aged 37.— Confined Three Months .
MR. BRIARLY conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM WINTER . I am the son of the deceased—we lived in Orange-street, St. Saviour's, Southwark. On 19th May, between ten and eleven o'clock at night, the prisoner came home drunk—she lived with ray father—they had two children—my father asked for his supper—she made no answer, but went and laid on the bed—not long after I asked her for my supper—she made no reply—I asked her again, and she hit me in the eye—I heaved a can at her—she came out and hit me over the head with the sucker of a pump—it bled, and made me sick—I called out—the landlord came up, took me down stairs, washed my head, strapped it, and gave me some tea—in ten minutes or a quarter of an hour I heard a smash up stairs—I did not go up, the landlord did—I afterwards saw my father at the Hospital—I have never seen him since—his name was John Winter.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Did your father come home with you that evening I A. Yes; he did not stop at the Hospital—he got a plaister to his forehead, had some coffee, and went to bed—the prisoner was taken to the station—I was not examined before the Coroner—I said before the Magistrate that I was in the room when the blow was struck, but I was not; and that I saw the prisoner blow out the light: that was a the—I am not in the habit of telling lies—I flung a can at the prisoner once before—I used to call her "mother"—my father had lived with her about three years.
THOMAS PILKISGTOS . I am landlord of 16, Orange-street. On 19th May, Winter occupied two rooms there—I heard a disturbance about eleven o'clock that night, went up, and saw last witness standing at the table, bleeding
from the forehead—he said his mother had done in—I asked her how she came to do it—she was coming to me, to say something, but being in liquor she fell against the table—the light went out—the deceased was sitting in the room, but did not say a word about the boy being hurt—I took the boy out and washed his head, my wife strapped it up—in ten minutes or a quarter of an hour I heard a smash, and went up—the deceased said, "Open the door, for she has cut my head"—the door was locked—I called for it to be unlocked—she said she could not find the key—a policeman came in and forced it—I went in with a light, and saw the deceased lying on the floor, and the prisoner on the bed—we lifted him up—he said his wife had done it—she got off the bed, came to him, and said, "Why, John, you know you threw it at me first "—I bandaged his head up, and took him to the hospital—he had a cut on the forehead.
Cross-examined. Q. The Coroner's Jury brought in a verdict of accidental death? A. Yes—I believe all the witnesses were examined but the boy—he was with me when it happened—I did not examine the bed where the prisoner lay, to see if it was wet—I did not notice if the contents of the chamber-pot had been thrown out—she was the worse for liquor—I did not go to the hospital with Winter—I saw him when he came home—a plaster was put on his forehead—he was at home two days—he was an out-patient of the hospital—the Magistrate committed the prisoner for murder.
SARAH PILKIKGTON . I am the wife of the last witness. I saw the deceased at seven o'clock—he appeared sober—he went out on the Saturday to liberate the prisoner—he did not go to work on the Monday—he used to drink after this happened—I do not know that he got tipsy—he died in the hospital.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you seen him after the accident? A. I saw him on the Sunday morning—he said his head was better, but he had a very bad sore throat—I said, "If you had not been in liquor, it would not have happened"—he said it might as well have been her as him, as he had hurled it at her—he went to the Police-office on the Saturday afternoon, and got her off.
WILLIAM PARNELL (police-sergent, M 5.) On 19th I went to the door of John Winter's room with Mr. Pilkington—it was locked—I heard a person moaning inside, and calling for assistance—a female said, "I can't find the key"—I broke the door open—I saw a man on the floor, with a wound on his head and a great deal of blood and wet by the side of him—I do not know what kind of water it was—the chamber-pot was in several pieces—I asked who did it—he said his wife—she was in bed, with her clothes on, and a child with her—she said he threw it at her first, and then she threw it at him—the place was in darkness—I went down and saw the boy—he had his head cut—I took him to the hospital—I afterwards saw the deceased's body at the hospital—it was the same man as was wounded with the chamber-pot.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you see the deceased again A. Not till his death—he said as we came from the hospital, he should not appear against his wife.
JAMES STOCKER . I am surgeon at Guy's Hospital. On 24th May, John. Winter was admitted as an in-door patient—there was a wound on his forehead, partly healed—it was not dangerous of itself, but his face was covered with erysipelas—he continued in the hospital till he died, on the Sunday, at four o'clock—I saw him dead.
Cross-examined. Q. Was there a post mortem examination? A. No; we are not allowed to make one without the Coroner's orders—a person in the habit of drinking would not be liable to erysipelas—it is peculiar to certain constitutions,
without any injury—in the hospital it generally arises from wounds in debilitated constitutions—his constitution sank under it—we generally support them with wine, ammonia, and porter—an ulcerated throat would be a premonitary symptom of erysipelas.
NOT GUILTY .
MR. PARRY conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS PICKSTOCK . I am a chemist and druggist. In Feb. last I lived in Millpond-street, Jiermondsey—I also have a shop in the Deptford-road—the prisoner Jenkins called on me, and after going to see the business, he agreed to purchase it, subject to the opinion of his friend—on 21st Feb., five or six weeks afterwards, Sanderson came, and said his friend Mr. Jenkins was not in a state to pay cash, but he was a young man of good character and property, and was about to marry a young lady to whom he (Sanderson) was trustee, and if I would allow him to have it upon two bills, at four months and two months, he would be married in the meat) time, and should be in a state to pay; that the young lady was entitled to 400l. on her marriage, under the will of her father, but that the other trustee would not advance anything until they were married; that the young lady's mother, Mrs. Harley, who was entitled to 113l. 6s. a year, payable half-yearly,—which money passed through his hands, would accept the bills—we entered into an agreement—I have not got it here—before it was signed I said, "Mr. Sanderson, excuse me, you tell me Mrs. Harley is a widow?"—he said, "She is a widow, for all I can say is that I followed Mr. Harley to his grave, seven years ago, and have had the management of her property ever since"—I afterwards went to 4, Llewyllen-grove, West-street, Bermondsey, saw the prisoner Harley, and asked whether she had accepted bills for Jenkins and Sanderson—she said she had, and asked me into the parlour—she said she had accepted two bills, and expected I had received them—she said, "If you have any doubt, Mr. Sanderson, who is my trustee, will put his name on them"—I said, "That was the arrangement he proposed"—she said her property was 113l. 6s., and pointed to a portrait in the room, which she said was her late husband's—she referred me to her landlord, but I was so satisfied that I did not make the inquiry then—the property made over to the defendants was worth 65l.—15l. was for the good-will—early in April Sanderson called, and said Jenkins had been with him, and said he would not keep the premises any longer, that he could not get a living—I said, "It is of no consequence; if you like to have the bills back, they are not due, and I will take the business back"—he agreed to meet me at six o'clock—I went with Sanderson, and found the place had been stripped of everything but a small portion of the shelves—the fixtures were completely gone—I refused to have anything more to do with it, expecting the bills to be paid—the prisoners went away—I could not find them out—they were taken three weeks ago—Mrs. Harley had left her house, as the holder of a bill had tried to sue her for it—the bills were dishonoured.
Jenkins. Q. How long have you had this bill? A. Since 24th Feb.—Mr. Lawson presented for me.
Sanderson. Q. Here is an agreement, giving me authority over Jenkins; is this your signature? A. Yes—the stock of the shop did not consist of dummies, and Bath bricks, labelled "Old Brown Windsor Soap"—I do not say there were no dummies—there was no deception—you gave me a list of drugs, to supply which would have come to 20l.—I reduced it to 4l., which. was all that was necessary.
CHARLES CLODE . I was shopboy to Mr. Pickstock—the prisoners called on him in Millpond-street—Mr. Pickstock asked Sanderson if Mrs. Harley was a widow—he said, "Yes, or how could her property come through my hands?" and said that her husband had been dead seven years, and he fallowed the poor fellow to his grave—on another occasion, Sanderson said, "Well, Jenkins, if you conduct yourself, I will give you the wife and the business on the same day."
Sanderson. Q. Did you hear your master say he was about to leave London? A. No—you were generally in the surgery, and I was in the shop.
Jenkins' Defence. Mr. Pickstock sold the business as doing 4l. a week; I found it did not do 1l. a week, and the drugs, which were valued at 23l., were not worth 5l.; I never represented Mrs. Harley as a widow.
Sanderson's Defence. A man named Smith, who lived in the house, claimed the fixtures; he and Jenkins quarrelled about them, and they were taken away unknown to me; if the thing had been fairly done, the bills would have been taken up; there was nothing but dummies and coloured water in the shop; I never represented Mrs. Harley as a widow.
Harley's Defence. Mr. Pickstock never came into my house; I did not my I was a widow, for I am well known in the neighbourhood; my husband. has left me five years.
SANDERSON— GUILTY . Aged 56: JENKINS— GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Six Months . HARLEY— GUILTY . Aged 49— Confined Four Months .
Before Lord Chief Justice Wilde.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL, with MESSRS. WELSBY, BODKIN, and CLERK
conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM COUNSELL . I am a short-hand writer. On the 5th June, about five minutes to eight o'clock in the evening, I attended to report a meeting at a place called Chartist-hall, Webber-street, Blackfriars-road—after I got there a chairman was appointed—about 200 persons were present then—they increased as the proceedings went on—I should say the greatest number present was between 300 and 400—they were of the lower orders—I should say the majority were Irish—there were about half a dozen women—I took a short-hand note of the proceedings—I have it here—there were several speakers—the prisoner was one—he was announced by the chairman, as Mr. Looney, the Secretary of the Davis Club—he said, "Mr. Chairman and fellow-countrymen, I came down to-night from our Club, in consequence of Mr. Terry, and the other men who are here, informing us that they were about to open a Club in this neighbourhood, to organize the Irishmen and Englishmen of this locality, who are disposed for such organization, and to look for freedom. The chairman has misinformed you when he introduced me to you as a speaker. I am not a speaker, but I am one who has a dreadful hostility to Lord John Russell; and I will tell you more, I am one of his most practical opponents, I believe, at present in London. I go into every neighbourhood where Irishmen and Englishmen are to be found, and try to get them to become dissatisfied with his Government; and I will tell you more, I advise them to get arms. And I came here specially to-night to propose a resolution to that
effect to this meeting, and I will read it to you:—' Resolved—That as God made man, and man made arms, and as it is the undoubted right of every man to possess arms, and know the use of them, and as the possession of them imparts a dignity and importance which none but the possessor knows or can appreciate, we think it right to advise all present to provide themselves with the same, as the best and surest means to repel a foreign foe, a midnight burglar, or an armed myrmidon of any Government that chooses to set itself up as the oppressor of the people it governs, or the stifler of the public opinion honestly expressed.' But let me tell you that, before I go any further, I am decidedly for moral force"—(here there was some confusion among the audience.)—" My friends, do not misunderstand me. I am for moral force, as far as the force of persuasion goes, when it is adjudicated by justice; but I believe that the Government at present do not act in that manner, and that they are enabled to carry out their measures of injustice, because they have physical force at their hack to succour them. That is my opinion; and I will tell you how we will manage that. Let every man in this meeting, who thinks that is the fact, provide himself with a good pike; and now, particularly now, that the time is coming, when men will be called upon to act the parts of men, and no longer talk and blunder like so many wind-bags, and speak about rights and wrongs with you, and never tell you how you may redress them. New, I tell you how you may manage them. The surest way to avoid all fighting, and all battling, and all murder, is for every man in the country to arm himself; that is the way to manage it. Then there will be no fighting; the Government will see you are too strong, and the advocates of justice will have fair play wherever they are. Now, to be practical, I believe the Government of this country are the greatest traitors this country has got. I believe it is impossible for this state of things to exist much longer, and enable the working men to maintain themselves or their families. I believe it is impossible. All the world seems to heave at this moment for liberty and for justice to the working classes; and now the only man who effectually preached the true doctrine calculated to give the working man the means of living, this man is taken away by the horrible machinations of an unjust and pernicious law, and transported away from us. We have not his fellow. I believe he was the first man who preached and propounded that doctrine, (and I believe it is the only true doctrine,) which is calculated to save the lives of the people"—(a voice "Robert Emmett.")—" Emmett did his business in his day; but men have forgotten Emmett and the teaching of Emmett. Let us not in our day, after such a glorious example, forget the teaching of the master who has been sent away from us. For fourteen weeks he wrote and propounded beautiful doctrines. I would advise you all to adopt them, and to act upon them practically, and let each man go into his neighbourhood—let each man speak to his wife and children, and tell them of the—wrongs we are obliged to endure; and tell them of the millions of his countrymen who have been slaughtered, and when manufactures are at a standstill, and when the aristocracy are no longer able to trample on the rights of foreign nations; you will not be able to succeed in getting employment, unless the land is taken away from the robbers who have got it, and given to you. We must not be afraid of the Government. I tell you from this spot I am a republican in heart and soul! In my own Club this is our night of meeting; I shall not therefore inflict any more of my remarks on you, for there are othi-r men who have come here to speak to you; but I tell you to be particular to do this:—Let every ten or twenty of you in the neighbourhood you live in, meet; and it
your means are very poor, and you cannot provide yourselves with guns or rifles, you can get pikes from 1s. 3d. to 1s. 6d. each; and, mind you, you can get pistols very cheap. I tell you, as one of your friends, not to misuse them: do not go about the streets. I am opposed at present to street works; I do not like to act such a part; I do not like to go into open-air meetings, or processions: but any fellow who is paid for cudgelling my head in, will find me stiff enough for him; and I can tell him that if he attempts to strike me, he should strike nobody else. Now this may perhaps be my position, or the position of some others who talk to you from time to time; but you" may not all be prepared for such an emergency; and therefore it is I would not advise you to go to these public demonstrations, and hold public meetings, and stand with your hands in your pockets, whilst a policeman comes up with his bludgeon, and knocks you down. They have said in that thing called the House of Lords, that these demonstrations are very bad—that they are very dangerous, for they are a rendezvous for pickpockets. Then I say, let us have no meetings of pickpockets; let the people all adopt this resolution, and we will go to the House of Lords, and we will discard them first: they are pickpockets by wholesale, and not the poor wretch who is driven by hunger and desperation to take a loaf! If you were to go over the list, it would appear the most preposterous thing in the world that the people of this country have been subjected so long to such horrible tyranny, as to be obliged to pay them pensions. I will tell you what you must do: your lesson must be the first principles of justice, to enable you to carry out these things. Go home into your neighbourhoods to-night; do not come to these meetings again until you have taken care to make that proper preparation which you will be called upon to make: and you Irishmen that are here, the harvest that is growing in your country shall never leave it till every man has had plenty of food What must you have felt during the last famine-time, as you passed through the different streets, and as you passed through the different purlieus'—I will say the purlieus, and rat-holes that you were obliged to live in, in consequence of the circumstances in which you were placed. How far better would you be in your mountain homes. Oh my God! how I sigh to be at the foot of the mountain where I was born! In the middle of the plague I went there, because I hate to live in London; and every morning I almost curse my fate because I am content to live here. I say how much better for us all, and Englishmen too, would it be if we were obliged by the circumstances in which our country was placed, to remain at home, where plenty of food, and plenty of labour could be found, instead of coming here into the market to compete with Englishmen, and reduce their wages. Now you Irishmen who are disposed to stop this thing, again I say to you, go into your neighbourhoods, and talk, club tojether, love one another, have no drinking-. Do not follow any man you do not know: do not be led into. riot, disorder, or destruction, by any parties you do not know, or are not acquainted with: destroy no man's property: do not, as the blackguard press of England would fain have the public believe, do not be treacherous, nor permit any pilfering to go on anywhere, to tarnish our movement: and if you see any man do a base or cowardly act, stop him, lay hold of him, because he is an enemy to our common cause. But I will tell you what we shall do. Our people at home this year will, my life upon it, keep the food that is there, until every Irishman has got sufficient to eat. There shall be no more-famines: and then if the myrmidons of the English Government dare to hew them down, by heavens we will be there to help! The press of England, the thunderer, the ruffian Times, says, 'Oh, '—what does it call the Confederates?
some horrible name, some 'hireling crew!' (a voice, do not dirty your mouth;')—at nil events i: says we are mean hirelings. That is a lie No man who opens his mouth receives a penny of reward; every man pays his own expenses, and he goes everywhere, impelled by nothing but the motive of pure and honest and high-minded patriotism, and to be enabled, if he can to erase the stain which has been placed upon his country by the acts of his countrymen during the last year or two; who have stood by and seen millions of the people hewed down by famine and death! It requires a great effort on our part to restore our country to the position of human nature, because I feel we have fallen far below it; then I say be ready in these times; do not be misled; do not help any plunderer; do not call say great open-air meetings, because they are not necessary; but go wherever ten, or twenty, or fifty of you can meet together; club together, take in the news, read the papers together, know what is going on, inform your minds, and keep yourselves ready for everything; it is a glorious thing, if the times require it, for men to stand up and die for their country; and when the time comes, let me tell you, Englishmen and Irishmen, that if the Government of England do not give the country to which I belong justice, when we are in the position which we will be before three months more, when we are in that position, we will demand justice; and if they do not give it, we will take it; and then Irishmen, as I said before, Irishmen will have a duty to perform, and I hope you will perform that duty nobly; your English friends, the English Chartists, are standing by your side; their cause is a holy cause, it is the cause of truth, and no matter what paltry efforts may be made to try and tarnish it, it will outlive all its enemies, and become the universal law; Irishmen, wherever you meet Englishmen and Scotchmen, be kind to them, they have been kind to me; I have worked with Englishmen five or six years since I have been living here, and I find them very kind to me; I say then let us be very kind to them; let us respect them, and love them, and love one another; our cause is their cause, and the press, and the oligarchy of this country have ever tried to poison our minds against them, and their minds against us; let us do our business then in spite of the vile press, and their hirelings; and though I am speaking in the presence of a great number of printers, I believe I am stating what is as nearly true as possible; there is as base a press in London as ever existed anywhere; I shall now trouble you no more; but I propose this resolution to you, that you should all provide yourselves with arms of some kind; and if you will all fraternize one with another, make your proper inquiries, and you will be sure of the way to every thing, and every thing will come quite aisy to you."
Q. Was that resolution seconded by a person named Rooney? A. Yes—I believe Looney was still present—Rooney got up immediately, and he had finished his speech before a person could get out of the room—he said: "I feel great pleasure in seconding this resolution; and it would be superfluous for me to add anything to what Mr. Looney has said; I will only tell you this much—I will tell you that any of you who are for this resolution, should show it by being sharp and decisive—sharp in the time you take to get arms, and sharp in the time you take to learn how to use them; and be decisive when the day enmes for us to strike the blow."
Cross-examined by MR. KENCALY. Q. Will you swear the prisoner was present? A. Yes—it was a meeting composed of the lower orders; the object of it was stated by the chairman, by reading a printed bill—he said it was toenrol members to a Club, called the "Mitchell Confederate Club, to enrol members for the purpose of repealing the Union—it may be called a
Repeal meeting—I should say the greater part of the meeting were Irish—there were some Englishmen—it was a public meeting—I did not announce the object for which I went—I went for more reasons than one—I was seen taking notes—every facility was afforded me, no obstruction was offered me; I was treated with respect—after Looney had finished speaking, he sat down, and if he had only sat for two minutes he must have been present during Rooney's short speech—he did not walk out of the meeting without sitting down—I positively swear he sat down, and that he was present when the resolution was seconded—Mr. Doogood, a gentleman from Messrs. Gurney's establishment, and my clerk were with me—we went specially to report the meeting—I saw no disturbance, tumult, or riot—as to tumult, I must add that at the strong parts of the speech there was very loud applause—I call that tumult, when it is very loud indeed, excessive—I have taken notes at the House of Commons, as a short-hand writer—I have heard similar tumult there—by tumult I mean applause.
MR. ATTORXEY-GENERAL. Q. To whom do you believe that passage in the speech, commencing, "The only man who effectually preached the true doctrine," &c, referred? A. To Mitchell, I should say.
MR. KENEALY. Q. Probably you can tell us why? A. The meeting was called to enrol members, and I know what has taken place in the other country.
COURT. Q. Do you know whether more than one person of the name of Mitchell has been transported lately? A. I am not aware of it. (MR. KEVEAIY objected to the record being read, it not being proved that the "beautiful doctrines "to ichich the defendant referred, were those for which Mitchell was transported. The Court teas of opinion that it was a question for the hry,—Passages from the record were here read, as in page 356.)
JOHN GRAY , policeman, C 10, examined by MR. KENEALY. I arrested the prisoner, at the Repeal Club, in King-street—I said I took him on a warrant charging him with sedition—we walked to Dean-street—he requested that the warrant might be shown to him—I said it would be shown him—I read it to him at the station—he went quietly—no attempt was made, but there was a disposition to rescue him on the part of the mob—a voice called out, "Looney is it right, shall we fight?"—the prisoner said, "No, they are so friends of mine policeman, the first man that interferes with you in the execution of your duty knock him down"—he said, "I have no wish for violence."
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. How many policemen had you with you? A. Several—only one voice called out, but there were forty or fifty people—I cannot say, certainly there were a great number.
COURT. Q. You suppose about fifty? A. Yes—he did not answer them when the voice said, "Is it all right?"—he spoke to me—he spoke loud, and said, "Policeman they are no friends of mine"—he addressed me alone.
MR. KENEALY. Q. Were they not all breaking up when you arrested him going home? A. Yes, they followed him—the meeting was broken up.
GUILTY on the 1st and 2nd Counts . Aged 34.— Confined Two Years and Two Months , and to enter into his own recognizance in 100l. and find two surelies in 50l. each to keep the peace fur three years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner for a similar offence.)
Before Edward Bullock, Esq.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Transported for Seven Years (William Papons, of Wimbledon; William Nicholls, butcher. of Kennington, and nine other persons, gave the prisoner a good character.)
MESSRS. BODKIN and METCALFE conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES CROWE . I live in Knight's-buildings, Bermondsey. In 1842 I was convicted of felony, and sentenced to ten years' transportation—I underwent an imprisonment, and five years were remitted—I have known Stevenson a great many years—I met him about last Feb.—he said trade was getting very bad (he was a leather-cutter); he intended to sell his stock-in-trade, and he would work on my judgment with his money—I was in the horsehair and glue-piece trade—I collected horsehair for the manufacturers; that has nothing to do with leather—I began the business with Stevenson—I went into Kent with him some time in March—the last trip I had with him was in April, to Thaxtead—he said he wished to return to town, as he expected a man to call with some butts—we came to town, and went to his house—we saw his wife—he asked her if any person had been inquiring for him—she said no person had been, with the exception of the man with the butts, and she wished he would have nothing to do with these infernal butts—she further said that she wished, when he went in the country again, he would not leave her without money, and he had sent the man to her for 5s., to pay for the horse and cart—she was then speaking of the same transaction—Stevenson and I then went into the kitchen—he looked at the butts, and said, "My wife says they are rather inferior, but I think they are very good"—I did not count them, but there were two bundles rolled up—I believe there are generally five butts in a bundle—these bundles were about the usual size—Stevenson said he was sure there would be a blow about these butts some time or another; but he could not see how it could possibly be found out until they took stock, in consequence of the foreman and the carman being concerned in the affair—he further stated that they came from a large firm in Weston-street—next morning we went to Maidstone—I went with him to carry some bags to the steam-boat, and he said to me, "I wish you would call on Mr. Lay land, as you are going over the water, and tell. him I have got ten 35lbs. butts for him, and I want 11d. a pound for them"—I went to Mr. Layland's, in Shoreditch—I did not see him; I saw his man in the shop, and a female—I delivered the message to the wife—Stevenson returned to town after that, and I told him I had called on Mr. Layland, and he said he was a buyer, if they were cheap—Stevenson hired a cart on the morning after he returned, to fetch the goods from the railway station which he had bought at Maidstone—I went with him to fetch them away, and about two o'clock that day the butts which I had seen in the kitchen were loaded in the cart by Stevenson and myself, and taken away to Mr. Layland's—the butts were there unloaded and taken into the shop—on our return from Mr. Layland's, Mr. Stevenson said he had done very well out of these butts; that he gave 5d., and sold them at 10d.; but he must have an invoice
made out at 9d.—he emptied his pockets into his wife's lap—she counted the money, and there was 16l. odd—on the same evening I saw "Walker in the shop I was in the parlour—there was a partition between us, and a glass window in the door—Stevenson's wife was in the parlour with me, and Stevenson came and opened the door, and asked her for some money—she said, "How much?"—he said, "Give me 8l., or rather 8l. 10s."—previous to that, he had asked for a pen and ink, and I saw him writing while Walker was in the shop—his wife went up stairs and fetched the money, and gave it him—Stevenson and Walker then went to the Cottage of Content—I stopped at Stevenson's till the time to go home, and then went to the Cottage of Content—I saw Stevenson and Walker there drinking ale—this letter (looking at one) is my writing—I wrote it on Saturday, the day after I saw Stevenson and Walker together—I did not post it then, in consequence of not knowing who to send it to—I posted it on the Tuesday after these goods were sold on the Friday—the post-mark is on it now, April 11—I was at Stevenson's that day—I saw Mr. Layland call there in the afternoon—he saw Stevenson in the shop—after he was gone Stevenson said to his wife, "There has been a blow about these butts; Mr. Mortimer, the foreman, has been over to Mr. Layland"—his wife said, "I thought they did not belong to Mr. Mortimer"—he said, "No more they do; they belong to Mr. Brooksbank"—about the same time, nest afternoon, Mr. Wilks called, and Stevenson went in the shop and spoke to him—I did not hear the conversation, but after Mr. Wilks was gone Stevenson came to the parlour door, and said there certainly was a blow about these butts—Mr. Wilks returned with Mr. Brooksbank and a policeman, and while they were there I saw Stevenson take a file of bills down, take one bill off, and lay it on the counter—he then came to the parlour, put his hat and coat on, and went away with them—next morning I was at Stevenson's, and saw Mrs. Walker there—on the Saturday afternoon following I was there again, and Stevenson returned home—he had in the interval been in custody on this charge, and had been bailed—he did not say anything to me on that day, but next Monday he said he had seen Walker, and had given him into custody boldly, considering it would make his case look better—on the same day I saw Stevenson take-down the file of bills—he took two or three bills, brought them into the parlour, tore them up, and put them into the fire—he said to his wife, "These are the bills of the other butts "—I have seen Mrs. Walker, on other occasions, at. Stevenson's—she was there mostly every day during the time that Walker—was in Horseraonger-lane—I saw her there once when Stevenson was there, and she told him she had seen her husband, and he intended to stick to the same tale; that was said while Walker was in custody—I heard Mrs. Walker speak repeatedly, day after day, to Stevenson—she said her husband did not see that there was any utility in bringing the other man into the affair, because in the event of his being in prison they would assist in supporting him.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. Did you see the butts come? A. No—I do not know who brought them—I do not know that anything passed between Walker and Stevenson on the subject—I never saw the butts in Walker's presence—when I saw Walker at Stevenson's, the butts were sold—I heard Mrs. Stevenson speak concerning a man named Roberts, on the night Stevenson was taken into custody, but what it was I cannot say—Stevenson said he had given Walker into custody, as he considered it would make his case look all the better—he did not say, that he knew Walker could tell them nothing about it—Mrs. Stevenson did not say.
why did he give anybody into custody, for fear they should tell something about him—Stevenson said he had found out Walker, and had taken the officer to him—I stood almost like a post on those occasion—I heard, but I did not utter a word—they did not talk to me—I was continually in the place—they did not tell me to turn out—I most likely must have made some answers—I cannot say what remarks I made—I gave no advice—what I was transported about, was a little wearing apparel—I was tried in the other Court, I think before Judge Gurney—I had never been in custody before; I was with another man, who had been in trouble once or twice—the wearing apparel was in the passage of a private house, in Bermondsey—the door was open—the young man that was with me got the clothes—I was inside—I cannot tell what the clothes were—I was in the hair and glue piece trade—the glue pieces come from the same hide that the butts do—a man may be a judge of glue pieces, and not of butts—I did not buy any glue pieces while I was with Mr. Stevenson—I bought horse-hair—I took him about to horse-hair places, and collected it—my name is James Crowe—I signed the letter, "A Well-wisher to Honesty"—I considered I ought to be a well-wisher to honesty, after what I have suffered—I have been honest ever since I was transported, to the best of my knowledge—I have not been in trouble since—I know a man named Matthews, a publican, in Bermondsey—he never made a charge against me, for having a pewter-pot of his, and never suspected me of anything to my knowledge—I never heard him say that he took a pewter-pot out of my hat—I never heard a word of such a charge till now—the reason I wrote the letter was, I considered I stood in very great danger—I gave no evidence myself till I found the case was not strong enough, then I came forward; when Mr. Stevenson said she hoped her husband would have nothing to do with these infernal butts, I did not remonstrate with him about the danger he was incurring—I did not know Walker—I had never seen him at Mr. Stevenson's before that time.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN. Q. Nor, did you know Mrs. Walker? A. No—I have known a person named Toswill ever since I was a boy—he is a master-tanner—I was never charged by him—I was never arrested on any charge, but the one I was transported on—Stevenson was taken about the 11th or 12th of April, and came out on the Saturday evening, about the 14th or 15th—I cannot say when I first appeared against him—it was in May, but I cannot say the date—most likely it was the latter part—from the 14th of April till the 23rd of May, I was in the habit of going to his house, and talking with him and his wife and family—I heard early in May, that there was 10l. reward for any one to give information—up to that time I had not the slightest intention of going to the police-office against Stevenson, nor had I afterwards—my mother is not in prison—she was committed for fourteen days, by Mr. Cottingbam, on suspicion of stealing a spoon—the first time Stevenson spoke to me about the blow-up, was when I was in his kitchen and saw the butts—they were removed two days afterwards, about two o'clock in the day, in a horse and cart—the butts were not covered over, but lying open on the cart—Stevenson was in the cart—I cannot say whether the butts extended over the side of the cart, they extended over the front—they were driven to Mr. Layland's, on Friday—Stevenson told me on the same day that they were sold, that he purchased them at od. a pound—I saw Stevenson writing the invoice—he paid the money in the Cottage of Content—I was not there when it was paid—he told me it was paid there—when
I was there I saw a great many people, but I did not take notice of any one in particular—I cannot say that I knew any one that was there—I know a policeman named Thorogood, by sight—I did not notice whether he was there—I cannot say how often Stevenson mentioned to me about there being a blow about these butts—he left the invoice with the gentleman that called—I cannot say whether it had been on the top of the file.
JAMES FRAMPTON . I am warehouseman to Messrs. Brooksbank. It is my duty to receive butts for my master—we receive butts every week and every month—I cannot say exactly that we received any in Jan.—I have seen eight at Mr. Layland's—this is one of them—I could not say that I have seen this butt before, but we had a parcel like it—a day or two before, I saw them at Mr. Layland's I counted the butts at my masters' premises, and there was a deficiency of two bundles, which is ten butts, from a parcel of 600, which had been delivered some time before—they resembled those I saw at Mr. Layland's—there was a figure 8 on each butt—that was the mark of the manufacturer, on each of the 600—I cannot say whether the tanner puts that mark on all his goods—there was that mark on that parcel, he does not put the same mark on the other parcels, he would put other figures on other parcels, to the best of my knowledge—I have seen other bundles with other figures on them—I do not know the value of these butts.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. These are called "butts?" A. Yes—that is the name they are known by in the trade—we buy them, sell them, and deal in them by that name—these came from Messrs. Cox and Drake, who are large tanners at Bermondsey—there are between ten and twenty large tanners about there—we have no mark to know Cox and Drake's tanning, but the number as they are sent to us—they do not put initials—different tanners put numbers on them; it is the custom of the trade—these had been there about three months—we had sold some, I cannot say how many—a certain number was put in one pile, and some were gone from that pile—the GOO were put in one pile, but there were others in other piles marked "8"—I cannot say bow many we had sold marked "8"—there may have been 100 sold, but not of that 600—my master sells—I have nothing to do with selling—I have the weighing and sending out.
WALTER SAXBY . I am carman to Messrs. Boucher—they have the adjoining premises to Mr. Brooksbank, in Wes ton-street I remember in April there being some conversation about an anonymous letter—about a week or ten days before that, I heard a cart in Mr. Brooksbank's yard one morning, at half-past five o'clock—I cannot say in what part of the yard it was—I heard it more than once—it was shifting—the yard is paved with stones, and a cart makes a good deal of noise—balf-past five is not the usual time to be at work in that yard—they begin work generally about six o'clock or half-past.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. What trade are you A. A carman, in the leather trade—I got up that morning about a quarter-past five—my work begins at any time—sometimes their work may begin at half-past five—I took it for granted that they had begun work—I did not look—I was surprised at the circumstance, and as soon, as my fellow-servant came in I said our neighbours were about very early—they did not begin before me—I was in the stable doing my work—I do not know whether my fellow-servant heard them in the yard—he did not come in till six—I never heard Messrs. Boucher begin work before six.
THOMAS LAYLAND . I am a leather-seller, in High-street, Shoreditch. I know Stevenson perfectly well—I have had a great many business transactions with him—I mean I have sold him a great deal of leather—I have always understood he was in the leather trade—the last transaction was I bought these ten butts ofhim on 7th April—he brought the leather, and two children, and Crowe, I believe all came in the cart together—I gave him 16l. 10s. for it, at the rate of 10d. a pound—it came to 16l. 10s. but I did not give him the 10d.—there was no bill or invoice, I was going out and was in a great burn—I paid him the amount, and entered it in my cash-book at the time—the things were bought or. Friday, and on the Tuesday after, Mr. Mortimer and Mr. Wilks came to make inquiries—I showed them nine of the butts—one had been cut up—Mr. Wilks and Mr. Vickery came again next day—I took Mr. Wilks to Stevenson's, to show him the man I bought them of—I saw Stevenson, and told him a party had been about the butts I bought of him—next day Mr. Brooksbank came, and I showed him the butts—I gave one of them up to the policeman, and kept the others—I produce them here in Court—I am quite sure they are what I received from Stevenson.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. I believe nothing is more difficult to identify than butts? A. They are very much alike—tanners are in the habit of putting a particular mark on a large quantity that they tan at the same time—we know the different tanners—they ali produce different sorts of leather.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN *. Q. Did you pay the full value for this leather? A. I did—I have known Stevenson the last three years—I have sold him leather—he paid me in goods when I could not get cash.
MR. METCALFE. Q. Was any communication made to you before you saw Stevenson? A. Yes; Crowe, his assistant, came to tell me that Stevenson had some butts to sell—that communication was left for me with my wife—I have bought leather of Stevenson—I have supplied him with leather, and when he got backwards he has let me have some leather.
JAMES WALKER . I am foreman to Messrs. Boucher and Mortimer. I received this letter (looking at one) on Tuesday, 11th April—the post-mark is "Shoreditch"—I went in consequence with Mr. Mortimer to Mr. Laylands—I saw nine of these butts there—I went next morning and saw the same—we went through our stock, and found it was correct, and I gave the letter to Mr. Brooksbank—Layland took me to Lock's-fields, and showed me where Stevenson lived—I did not go into the house then—I went next day with Mr. Brooksbank and a policeman—there was a bill in the window to let the house and shop—I went in and saw Stevenson—I asked him who he bought the butts of—he said, "Of a man named Roberts"—I said, "Can you tell me where Roberts lives?" and I told him Mr. Brooksbank and a policeman were outside—he said he could find Roberts, but he must not have a policeman dressed in uniform—I told him that I could not say anything about, I must go and speak to Mr. Brooksbank—I did so, and Mr. Brooksbank and the policeman came in with me—Mr. Brooksbank asked Stevenson if he had got an invoice of the butts—he said he had, and he asked his wife to bring a file, which she did—he took one off the file, which was, "Stevenson debtor to Roberts, ten butts at 9d. a lb.," which came to 14l. odd—it was signed at the bottom, "Received the same day, "I think, "Thomas Roberts," but it was a cross with Roberts's name—Mr. Brooksbank asked Stevenson who wrote the invoice—Stevenson said, "I made out the invoice, because Roberts had got
the rheumatism in his hand, and could not write, but he put the cross to it"—I went out with Mr. Brooksbank and Stevenson to seek for Roberts—the policeman followed us—Stevenson went into the Wellington public-house, came out, and said Roberts was not there—he said he did not know where Roberts lived, but there was a man in Pitt-street, named Walker, could tell—we went Pitt-street, and Stevenson knocked at Walker's door—a little girl came, and said her father wms not at home—Stevenson then said he could not tell where to go—we went to the Bricklayers' Arms and had some refreshment—we got there about half-past six o'clock—Stevenson said, after he had been there some time, that he did not buy the goods of Roberts, he bought them of Walker—I asked him who put the cross at the end of Roberts's name—he said, "Walker did"—I asked him if he did not know better than to let one man sign a cross to another man's name—he said, "Well, Walker told me to do it"—he was then given into custody.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEN.Q. Did he not say he bought them of a person in the name of Roberts? A. To the best of my knowledge, he said be bought them of Roberts—he did not say the goods were Roberts's, but Walker sold them, nor that they were sold in the name of Roberts, and Walker told him they belonged to Roberts—I went before the Magistrate next day—Stevenson was remanded till Monday—I cannot say whether he was bailed.
THOMAS BROOKSBANK . I am in partnership with my brother. I went to Stevenson's house immediately after we got the letter from Bouchers'—I asked Stevenson for the invoice—it was handed to me—he said it was the invoice of the butts he bought oi the man Roberts—I saw it was made out precisely as has been stated, and signed "Roberts," in Stevenson's handwriting, with a mark following—I went in search of Roberts for the first hour—I then left—I was not in the Bricklayers' Arms, I was at the door—six o'clock is the nominal time for our men to go to work, but they are very rarely there before half-past six or seven—they are not at work before six—I do not reside on the premises—none of these 600 batts had been sold—they came 100 in each cart—they were delivered in one parcel, and put into the shed—I have seen the butts found at Mr. Layland's—they correspond with the 600 in tanning, and in marks inside and out—I hare seen talker about frequently—he worked in our warehouse occasionally in Oct. last, I think for ten days or a fortnight—he was sufficiently on the premises to be acquainted with them—he was aware at what time we commenced business in the morning.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. You do not open, the premises in the morning? A. No—the market was closed, but these butts were in a shed that was not closed—the market is shut at night and opened in the morning by the watchman—I generally go about ten o'clock—Strand is bur wagoner—he was so in April—he lives at Deptford—seven is the time appointed for him to come—I reside at Sydenham.
Cross-examined by MR. O'BRIEX.Q. What time does the market open? A. The watchman opens the outer gates at half-past five o'clock—he then leaves the charge of the place.
FREDKRICK LITCHFIELD (policeman, M 50.) I went with Mr. Wilks and Mr. Brooksbank to Stevenson's house—I went with them to look for Roberts—we were looking for him from about half-past four o'clock till half-past ten—we went to a public-house in Baalzephon-street—Stevenson went in, and said he was not there—we then went to Walker's house, and afterwards to
the Bricklayers' Arms—Stevenson first said he bought the leather of Robert,—he afterwards said, "Well, to tell you the truth, I bought it of Walker"—I said, "Then there is no such a man as Roberts in this transaction"—he said, "No, there is not; but Walker said he brought it from him"—I saw the invoice produced at Stevenson's house—I did not hear him say anything about it at the Bricklayers' Arms—I afterwards saw Walker in prison—I spoke to him in the cell, and told him I was the constable who apprehended Stevenson—he said, "I sold the leather to Stevenson, I had it of a man of the name of Roberts"—he was admitted to bail, on the understanding that he had it of Roberts—I accompanied him to Bermondsey-street to look for Roberts—he said he was in the habit of seeing him pass to and fro there for some years past, but he did not know his address—he said he met Roberts is Bermondsey-street, and he asked him if he knew where he could sell some leather—he said he knew a man in Lock's-fields, named Stevenson, who he thought would buy it, and he was to meet him on the following morning that he did meet him, and Roberts brought the leather in the cart, and they went to Stevenson's; but before they arrived there, Roberts got out of the cart and went into a public-house, close to Stevenson's, while be (Walker) delivered it.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. You walked with him? A. I met him by appointment—he was on bail—I had no particular directions about it—the prosecutor interceded with the Magistrate to have him bailed, on the condition that he should find this Roberts—we found a man who said he remembered a person coming with the leather, and Walker with him—I did not take that man before the Magistrate, he was engaged in his business, and had to get his living—I asked him if he recollected a man with a cart, and some leather, and speaking to Walker, and he said he did—I saw that man in Dockhead, his name was Harrington—I did not take him before the Magistrate to corroborate Walker's story—it was Walker's business to take him, if he were a witness in his favour—I was not going to pay him—it was about half a mile from Mr. Brookbank's where I saw him.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Common Serjeant.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Three Months .
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Transported for Seven Years .
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Transported for Seven Years .
June, with the pots of flowers, in Albany-road, Camberwell—I asked where he got them—he said, "From Mr. Wood, at Peckham "—I said I knew no such nurseryman there—he said, "I got them of the watchman," and then he said he was going to take them somewhere—I took him to the station.
WILLIAM SMITH (policeman, P 302.) I produce a certificate of the prisoner's former conviction at this Court (read—Convicted March, 1847; having ion before convicted; confined one year)—the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years .
WILLIAM SAMUEL STILL . I am a glass-cutter. About half-past one o'clock in the morning, on 2nd June, I was going home, and the prisoner asked me to give her something to drink—we—went to a public-house in Blaekfriars-road, and I then went home with her—I gave her two shillings—in pulling that out, I pulled out my other money—she asked me for more—I refused to give it her—I had then two half-crowns safe—I took off my clothes, and went to bed, leaving my things on a chair—the prisoner got up about half-past five o'clock, and sent down stairs—I heard a whispering—I then looked and missed my two half-crowns—the woman down-stairs called out, "Young man, is it all right, the woman has just gone "—I put on my things, and went after her—no one else had been there.
Prisoner's Defence. I never went near his clothes; he told the people in the house he had lost only one half-crown; he saw me leave the room; he cast have seen, if I went to his clothes.
NOT GUILTY .
WILLIAM ROBINSON . I am cellarman to Mr. Abraham Cowley and others, ale-brewers, of Lambeth. On 26th June, at half-past seven o'clock, I found the gates of their wharf open—they had been shut over-night—I found two bottles of ale, wrapped in a handkerchief, on the foot-board of the van—I locked the gates, and got a man to look and see who fetched them away—I went to the cellar under the dwelling-house, and twelve bottles of ale were gone.
ANTHONY BABBAGE . I was set to watch, and about ten o'clock I saw Wright come over the bridge to the van—he put his foot on the van, and was reaching-for the bottles—I caught him, and said, "You are the man I have been waiting for "—he said "What is the matter V and he said if I did not let him go, he would break my legs—I opened the front gates, and got him out-Cannon was with him—they beat me and kicked me, and threatened to smash me if I did not let him go—I kept Wright, Cannon got away.
CHARLOTTE ROBINSON . About six o'clock on that Sunday night I was in my house—I saw the two prisoners in a boat, on the water—they tied the boat to a barge—at ten at night I saw Wright get into the boat, and go into the wharf—Cannon went into the wharf on the other side.
WRIGHT— GUILTY . Aged 22.— Transported for Seven Years . CANNON— GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Six Months .
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Transported for Seven Years .
Before Mr. Recorder.
GUILTY .— Transported for Seven Years .
JAMES CALLARY (policeman, M 61.) On 25th June, in consequence of some directions, I was in Mr. Freeman's yard in Grove-street, Rotherhithe adjoining Mr. Somes's yard—I could see over the palings, and between then;—I saw the prisoner in Mr. Somes's yard, about ten minutes or a quarter-past six o"clock—he took a quantity of rope on his shoulders, from different parts of the yard, and threw it over the palings, about ten or fifteen yard; from where I was standing—he then came over the palings, to where the rope was—I took him in custody—I asked how he came by the rope—he said it was given him.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY.Q. Did you see anybody else in the next yard. A. No—there was no one waiting about.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY.—Recommended to mercy by Jury. — Confined Two Months .
Before Mr. Baron Parke.
MR. BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
EDWARD ALFRKD GRATTAN . I am cashier at the Southwark Branch of the London and Westminster Bank—Henry Bosanquet and others are the proprietors—Mr. James Dobson of High-street, Borough, is a customer—on 27th June this check (looking at it) was brought by the prisoner—I suspected it, and asked him from whom he obtained it—he said Mr. Matthews sent him to obtain the money—I asked him what Mr. Matthews was—he said a builder or a carpenter—I took him into the Manager's room, a policeman was sent for, and he was given in custody—the policeman asked where he got the check—he said a gentleman over the way at Wallis's coffee-house gave it him to obtain the money, and gave him a shilling for his trouble—he said the gentleman had a white waistcoat, and he could give no other description of him—he produced a canvas bag, which he said the gentleman had given him to put the money in.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. It was some difference in the writing to that of Mr. Dobson which marie you suspect it? A. Yes.
MICHAEL GROGAN (policeman, 145 M.) The prisoner was given into my custody with this check—he said a gentleman with a white waistcoat, at Wallis's coffee-house, had promised him a shilling to go and get it cashed, and take the money back to him—I accompanied him to Wallis's coffee-house, and found no gentleman there—I took the prisoner to the station, and on searching I found this other check in his jacket pocket.
Cross-examined. Q. How do you know it was his jacket? A. He told me so—he told me where he lived—I searched his office, and found it there.
JAMES DOBSON . I am a clothier in the Borough—I keep an account at the Southwark Branch of the London and "Westminster Bank—the prisoner was in my service about six months back; from four to six months—I have frequently sent him to the bankers to take cash—this check is not my writing, nor the slightest imitation of it—on my engaging the prisoner, I asked him to sign his name, which he did, but that was not sufficient for me to form a judgment of his hand-writing—he was requested to write at the Court, and from the signature at the Court, I should say this check is his writing—it is very like it—when this was first handed to me, I said I must refer to my books to see if I could find any corresponding writing—I have since seen his writing, which was similar to this, but it was written very badly—I have not sufficient information to form a belief abont it—this order for a check-book I can only make the same reply about, it is not my writing—I did not desire any person to go for a check-book on that day—the remark I was pressed to make at the Court was unfairly taken from me—I stated I had not sufficient authority to speak to the writing, I must see some corresponding writing.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you entertain the same doubt about the writing of this other check found in his jacket. A. The writing of that is similar to this—the prisoner was merely my errand-boy—I had a good character with him.
JOHN FREDERICK SHERRIFF . I am one of the cashiers of the London and Westminster Bank in the Borough. On the 26th June this note was brought to the banking-house—I gave the person who brought it a blank check-book, No. 10063—that number would go through the whole book—I have no doubt the prisoner is the person.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you ever seen him before? A. Yes—my attention was called to this fact on 27th June, the day after I gave him the check-book—he presented the check on the 27th—his face was familiar to me, he having come from Mr. Dobson's before.
COURT. Q. Is the check produced, a check taken from that book. A. Yes—(check read) "June 27, 1848—London and Westminster Bank, Southwark Branch, 3, Wellington-street—Pay Mr. Matthews or bearer, 57l. 10s.—James Dobson."
(James Knight, a chemist and druggist at Stones-end, in the Borough, gave the prisoner a good character.)
GUILTY of uttering. Aged 15.—Recommended to mercy by the Jury. — Transported for Seven Years .
ADJOURNED TO MONDAY, AUGUST 21ST, 1848.