CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
SIXTH SESSION, HELD APRIL 8TH, 1844.
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,
Taken in Short-hand
BY HENRY BUCKLER,
GEORGE HEBERT, CHEAPSIDE.
TYLER & REED, PRINTERS, BOLT-COURT, FLEET-STREET.
On the Queen's Commission of the Peace,
OYER AND TERMINER, AND GAOL DELIVERY
The City of London,
AND GAOL DELIVERY FOR THE
COUNTY OF MIDDLESEX, AND THE PARTS OF THE COUNTIES OF ESSEX, KENT, AND SURREY, WITHIN THE JURISDICTION
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT,
Held on Monday, April 8th, 1844, and following Days.
Before the Right Honourable WILLIAM MAGNAY, LORD MAYOR of the City of London; Sir John Gurney, Knt., one of the Barons of Her Majesty's Court of Exchequer; Sir John Williams, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Queen's Bench; Sir William Henry Maule, Knt., one of the Justices of Her Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Sir Claudius Stephen Hunter, Bart.; Sir Peter Laurie, Knt.; Charles Farebrother, Esq.; Thomas Kelly, Esq.; Sir Chapman Marshall, Knt.; Sir John Pirie, Bart.; Aldermen of the said City: the Honourable Charles Ewan Law, Recorder of the said City: Thomas Wood, Esq.; Michael Gibbs, Esq.; John Johnson, Esq.; Sir George Carroll, Knt.; William Hunter, Esq.; Thomas Challis, Esq.; William Hughes Hughes, Esq.; Aldermen of the said City: John Mirehouse, Esq., Common Sergeant of the said City; and Edward Bullock, Esq., Judge of the Sheriffs' Court; Her Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer and Gaol Delivery of Newgate, holden for the said City, and Judges of the Central Criminal Court.
LIST OF JURORS.
CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT.
MAGNAY, MAYOR. SIXTH SESSION.
A star (*) denotes that prisoners have been previously in custody—Two stars (**) that they have been more than once in custody—An obelisk (†) that a prisoner is known to be the associate of bad characters.
LONDON AND MIDDLESEX CASES.
OLD COURT.—Monday, April 8th, 1844.
First Jury, before Mr. Recorder
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, April 9th, 1844.
Second Jury, before Mr. Recorder.
1035. JOHN WRIGHT was indicted for feloniously uttering a forged request for the delivery of 50lbs. weight of black pepper, knowing it to be forged, with intent to defraud John Clark; also for uttering two similar forged requests; to all which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 45.— Confined Two Years.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Weeks.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Six Months.
1038. ROBERT BOTTRELL and HENRY HURREL were indicted for breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Northern, and stealing therein 1 necklace, value 2s.; 1 pair of ear-rings, 2s. 6d.; and 6 shillings; the goods of Ann Elizabeth Northern: also, 2 coats, value 20s.; 1 caddy 20s.; 1 dish-cover, 2s.; 1 handkerchief, 1s.; and 1 ring, 1s.; the goods of the said John Northern.
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
JOHN NORTHERN , cabinet-maker, Tredear-street. I have known the prisoner Bottrell about fifteen years—I took a house for him in Frederick-place—he said it would suit him, and asked me to take possession of it as he did not wish his name to appear in the rate-books—I took possession, because the landlord objected to him as a tenant—I went into the house to live, after asking Bottrell two or three times to send in furniture—I told him my reason for that was that I might be safe as to the rent—he sent in some furniture on the 29th of April—I had a necklace and six silver coins in the house belonging to my daughter, two coats, and a tea-caddy, a dish-cover, handkerchief, a ring, and some other articles of my own—I saw those articles safe the morning before the house was broken open—I went before the Magistrate,
as Bottrell summoned me to give the goods up—the Magistrate would make no order, and the next day my house was broken open, and when I came home I missed these articles, and I believe he took other things away—there was an iron bedstead of his without a bottom left behind; also a small linen horse—they were of little value—the Parcel-delivery Company left a small parcel for me two days after, at a baker's near where I live, and a dish-cover which was taken, was sent by a boy—I have not opened the parcel—(the parcel being opened, contained a necklace, silver coins, a purse, a looking-glass, a pair of gloves, some buttons, and a glass)—these are mine—I have not recovered two coats worth a sovereign, and a tea-caddy, worth a sovereign—the most valuable thing was an account-book, containing an account by which he is a debtor to me—that has not been returned.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did you say Mr. Bottrell was indebted to you? A. Yes, for money lent—I should say he owes me, perhaps, 100l. money lent, and bills he has got of mine—he has my acceptances—I have a copy of a 100l. bill, which I have found he has handed over to Farnell and Co., on his own account—they tell me so—when I took this house, I had just left the situation of superintendent and clerk of the Towerhamlets Cemetery—I had 25s. a-week there, besides an allowance for fittings—my daughter lived with me—I do not know whether my wife is living—I was married when I was only sixteen, and have not seen her for perhaps twenty years—my daughter is fifteen years old—the mother of that child is dead—I have not lived with any other woman, nor did I live with her—I have another daughter, at Yarmouth, with her husband—she is nineteen years old—the same person was her mother—I was employed at the Cemetery three years—they discharged all hands—they did not say why they discharged me, but they have lately made me a compliment of 10l., as I sent them a letter to consider my services—there was no complaint of bodies being exhumed—I had a loo-table in this house, and other things—while I was living in this house, I sat on Bottrell's chairs, and slept in my own bed, on his iron-bedstead—I have paid a quarter's rent for this house, and have the receipt with me—the landlord took same blinds which I had paid for, and I paid between 3l. and 4l. in money—that was after the breaking in—the rent was 21l. 8s. per annum.
Q. After Bottrell went before the Magistrate, did not you agree to refer all matters in dispute to another party 1 A. It was before I went to the Magistrate, but the party demanded 5l., and I declined entering into it—I assaulted Bottrell, and paid 25s. for it, for taking hold of his arm—I was not present when any of the goods were taken from the house—I resided there then—there was no mattress left behind—I came home at ten o'clock at night—I had left in the morning—I found the door crushed; the lock was broken, and the door closed—a warrant was issued for Bottrell's apprehension—Mr. Ballantine the Magistrate dismissed the charge because I had not my witnesses—he told me to take him again when I had my witnesses—I then got my witnesses, and went before the Grand Jury, not before the Magistrate—the parcel was not produced before the Magistrate—I do not know that I had it then—I never wore a coat of Bottrell's to my recollection—he may have asked me to put one on to see how it fitted, as he would buy half a dozen at pawnbrokers' sales, but I will swear I never wore a coat of his for ten minutes—I went to Lambeth-street for Mr. Pelham, my attorney, but do not think I applied there for a warrant against the prisoner—I will not swear it—I borrowed some money of Bottrell years ago—I had not seen him for several years till last May—I have not borrowed 1s. of him since May, not that I recollect; not 5s., to my recollection—I do not know that I borrowed 1s.—I was once in the police, and have
had a share in some omnibusses—I never instructed Mr. Carnaby to write to Bottrell's father—he said he wrote to him—I did not tell Carnaby that if I had not indicted Bottrell, that Bottrell would have swamped me with writs or legal proceedings, not that I know of—I told him about this business, and that he commenced several actions against me—they were not brought before I preferred this indictment—I swear I never told Carnaby if I had not preferred this indictment he would have swamped me with legal proceedings—I never thought of prosecuting him till he effected what be bat done in this affair—Carnaby did not tell me the nature of the letter he wrote—I never saw it, or instructed him to write it—I know Murray, a policeman—I did not tell him I indicted Bottrell to prevent his prosecuting actions at law against me—Mr. Brighton and another were to have arbitrated between us, I believe—he did not order me to give up the furniture to Bottrell—he would not go into it—I had seen these silver pennies two or three days before—I did not know where they were kept—my coats hung in the kitchen—it was a macintosh and a green frock coat—I bought them at Brussels—the handkerchief was silk—I had not seen the ring for perhaps a fortnight.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. How long after the house was broken into was the parcel returned? A. Two or three days—I had made a complaint at the Police-court before that.
COURT. Q. In what state did you find the lock of your door? A. The bolt of the lock was broken by a crow or something.
ANN NORTHERN . I am Mr. Northern's daughter. On the 22nd of Dec. I left the house about half-past-five o'clock in the evening—the furniture and property were then safe—my father's two coats were in the kitchen—I left nobody in the house—I double-locked the street door, and took the key with me—I returned about nine, or half-past, with my father, and found the door pushed half open—the lock was hanging on one side, pushed a little from the door—I had seen Bottrell in Frederick-plate that day—he came to the house the day before, and he said he had come for the furniture with a ran; that be came by order of the Magistrate.—I said be could not have them in Mr. Northern's absence.
Cross-examined. Q. How old are you? A. Turned sixteen—my mother is not living—I heard she died at Stepney; not in the workhouse—the coins were kept in the drawer of Bottrell's table—a parcel was sent to Mr. Blains, the baker—he brought it, I think, about a week after the house was broken open—this purse and necklace are mine—I could see the door was open when I came home—when Bottrell said he had come for the furniture there was a van at the door—it was about half-past four o'clock in the afternoon—we went to live there on the 30th of Sept.—the house was broken open on the 22nd of Dec.
ELIZABETH SHIBLEY . I am a widow, and live about ten minutes' walk from these premises. On the 22nd of Dec. I saw some persons near there—I did not know them—if was dark, between six and seven, or seven and eight o'clock—I did not speak to them—there were three or four there—I saw them push the door—a person who stood by told them to push it again—they pushed it two or three times—it was at last broken open—there was a van there—I saw the persons go in—I cannot say whether they brought anything out, for they told me to walk on, and said I had no business there—I said I had—I stopped a minute there, and walked on—I saw a fender thrown out at the door—I then walked on.
ROBERT QUARMAN . I am a cook, and live next door to this house. About five o'clock, one evening before Christmas, I saw these goods being removed—I did not notice the persons, and cannot say wheather I saw either of the prisoners there—it was dusk, and my sight is not good—I heard a noise—I
suppose they were breaking the door open—I stood at my door, and saw some goods taken out of the house by the men who were there—I was not near enough to tell whether it was furniture or not—I never saw Bottrell before, or since that, to my knowledge—how many men were there I cannot say—I spoke to one person who passed the door, genteelly dressed—I said, "Have you a warrant for that?"—he said, "Yes, I had a warrant; I served it upon him, and he has run away with it"—it was a tallish person—I have no belief whether it was Bottrell.
GEORGE HAMBROOK . My mother keeps a van. About the 22nd of Dee. Bottrell hired the van—I went with it to opposite a house in Frederick-street against Stepney church—the younger prisoner bad come to my house—I met Bottrell in Frederick-street, coming in a direction from the house—the door of a house there was open—I drove the van to the door—three or four persons went in with me—both the prisoners went in—I took some things out of the house, under Bottrell's direction—I was in the kitchen, but never saw the coats—both the prisoners were in the kitchen—I do not know whether Bottrell went down before me—I took away some of the furniture—I left an iron bedstead, a mattress, and a large table—I cannot say whether I left the mattress on the bedstead—it might be on the ground—I took the things to a coal-shed by the Ship, at Stepney church, Mr. Tidwell's—the prisoners and two or three other men were with me—Bottrell gave me 10s. for the job—I did not see him give Hurrel any money—he assisted in lifting the goods into the van.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you hear Bottrell give strict orders that they were to take nothing that belonged to Northern? A. Yes—I saw no coats at all—there might be several little things about the house, but we took the chief that were there—I did not see Brighton, a builder, there—I knew the chief of Northern's goods, having taken them there in my van, by Bottrell's orders.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Have you done anything for Bottrell since that? A. Only a few jobs—Mr. Northern paid me for the first job, and the second Bottrell paid for.
SOPHIA WHITE . I am the wife of John White, we keep a shop, in Chichester-place, I think in the parish of St. Pancras—the shop forms part of the house—my attention was called by the policeman to a hole in a pane of glass in the shop-window—I had a piece of linen cloth lying behind that hole—the same evening the prisoner was brought into the shop in custody—I then missed the piece of linen-cloth.
FRANCIS MORRIS (police-constable E 78.) On Saturday afternoon, the 2nd of March, I noticed a hole in the prosecutor's window—I told Mrs. White of it and remained at a distance, to watch—in about half an hour I saw the prisoner and two others walk slowly by the window, down Derby-street, and up Liverpool-street—they then came back again to the window, and made a stop—I was on the other side of road—I immediately crossed, but before I got up to them, they walked away twenty or thirty yards—I passed them, and saw they had nothing—I was in plain clothes—I walked in a contrary direction, and saw them coming back, towards the window—they got to it before I did—the prisoner stood outside the other two and put both his hands together inside the pane of glass, and at the same moment something came into his hand, but I could not see what it was—I ran up—he had something about a foot and a half long, and about the size
of my arm—they separated, and the prisoner and another ran up Maiden-lane—I ran after them—they turned back, and ran up Pancras-road, where I stopped the prisoner, in consequence of his suddenly turning, upon finding I was close to him—he said, "What do you want me for?"—I said, "For taking that piece of cloth "—he said "I never was near the window"—I had said nothing about a window—I said, "I will let you know about that"—he said, "Well, if you speak the truth, you can't say you saw anything in my hand "—I took him to the station, but found nothing on him—the cloth was not found.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. How far were you from the window when it occurred? A. About the length of this court—I did not lose sight of him at all.
COURT. Q. When you brought the prisoner back, was the aperture in the window larger than when you first noticed it? A. It was twice as large—more glass was taken away—there was not room for the cloth to be got out in the state the hole was before.
GUILTY .— Confined Six Months ,
1040. JAMES CLARK and THOMAS WANKLIN were indicted for stealing 48 yards of mouslin de laine, value 4l., 16s. the goods of Silvanus Partridge and another; and that Clark had been before convicted of felony.
WILLIAM POUND . I live in Duke-street, Westminster-road. I was in Cheapside on the 11th of March, and taw the prisoners in company with another—Wanklin had an empty bag—I saw the one who is not taken go into Mr. Brown's shop, bring something out under his arm, and deliver it to Wanklin, who gave it to Clark—I followed Clark to the middle of St. Paul's-churchyard, and took him with the bag on his shoulder with this property—Wanklin at that time returned back towards the shop in company with the other—he was taken on the 19th of March.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. How was Wanklin dressed? A. In a frock coat and sort of seal skin cap—he was taken in London-road in company with two others—I pointed him out, and the policeman took him—he had the same sort of cap on that day—I was in the police, and left in consequence of taking a drop too much.
Clark's Defence. I was in Cheapside; a young man asked if I would earn 6d., and gave me the bag to carry for him, and go round St. Paul's-church-yard; I had not gone far before this man took me.
CLARK— GUILTY Aged 18
WANKLIN— GUILTY Aged 25
Transported for Seven Years.
WM. BLISSETT . I am a private in the Guards. On the morning of the 8th of March I was marching with the regiment along Tower-street, and saw the prisoner make a dash against Sir Archibald M'Donald, my officer, and take
something out of his pocket—I immediately said, "You are robbed, sir"—he felt, and said, "I am"—two men ran away—I followed, and grasped at the prisoner and missed him, but the second time I secured him—he threw what he had taken out of the prosecutor's pocket up in the air, and it felt among the crowd—I think the prisoner is the person—he was dressed the same—I had lost sight of him in the crowd—I think I took the same man.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did not a great many persons run in the direction of the alarm? A. Yes.
LIEUTENANT SIR ARCHIBALD KEPPEL M'DONALD , Bart. I heard one of my men say somebody had taken something from my pocket—I missed my cigar-case, saw the prisoner running, and saw him throw my cigar-case away—it was picked up—this now produced is it.
Cross-examined. Q. Are you quite sure you saw him throw it away? A. Yes, when the witness caught him, not before—it was in my hind coat pocket.
WILLIAM LOCK . I am clerk to Mr. Scott, of Adam-street, Adelphi. I was standing in Tower-street to see the regiment pass, and heard somebody say something—I turned my head, and saw the prisoner take the case out of his pocket and throw it right over into the street.
GUILTY Aged 19.— Confined Two Years.
MARY WATSON . I am the wife of Abraham Watson, who keeps the Britannia public-house, Limehouse. Mr. Mann supplied us with meat, which I was in the habit of paying for as it was delivered—on the 9th of March, I paid the prisoner 1l. 10s. 4d. for his master—he receipted this bill, "Paid E. Jones," in my presence.
WILLIAM HARRINGTON . I am potman to Mrs. Jones, who keeps the Prince of Wales, in Charles-street. Mr. Mann supplied us with meat—on the 8th of March, I saw my mistress pay the prisoner two bills, amounting to 3s. 3d.
Prisoner. I received the money, and paid it to my master when I got home.
WILLIAM MANN , butcher, Charles-street. I engaged the prisoner for two days to take out meat and receive money—I sent him with this meat—when he returned, I asked him whether Mrs. Langton liked the piece of meat—he said, she said she would keep it till her daughter came home, and would send the money round—I asked whether Mrs. Watson liked the meat—he said, yes—I asked what Mrs. Jones said—he said, she would not pay him the bill, because I had sent the meat too late—I have Mrs. Jones's two bills, they are receipted, in the prisoner's writing, in the name of E. Thomas—he came to me in the name of Riley—he never accounted to me for these sums.
Prisoner. I paid you some money two or three times in the course of the morning. Witness. No, he only brought me 4s. 9d. from one person—he left me about half-past one o'clock on Saturday, in the middle of business, ten minutes after he came from Mrs. Watson's—I saw him on Sunday at his father's house, and gave him into custody.
JOSEPH COOTE (police-constable N 170.) I apprehended the prisoner in Moneyer-street, Hoxton, and told him I was authorised by Mr. Mann, his late master, to take him into custody, for embezzling various sums of money and absconding—he made no answer, but came with me quietly—I found on him a sovereign and 4s. 8 3/4 d.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months.
1043. MARY GREEN was indicted for stealing 1 purse, value 1s.; 4 sovereigns, 2 half-crowns, 5 shillings, 3 sixpences, and 1 groat; the property of Josiah Godden, from his person; and that she had been before convicted of felony.
JOSIAH GOLDEN . I live in Little Lore-lane, City. On the 20th of March, about a quarter past twelve at night, I was in St. Martin's-le-Grand—the prisoner came up to me, caught hold of my arm, and kept it for about twenty yards-another woman came and walked in front of us—the prisoner, in taking my purse out of my pocket, drew a penny with it, which dropped—that attracted ray attention—I felt and found my purse gone—I seized her hand, and found my purse in it—she would not give it up to me—I called a policeman, and he took it out of her hand—I had 4l. 11s. 10d. in it.
Cross-examined by MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. I suppose your purse was in your trowsers' pocket? A. Yes, on the right side—that was not the side nearest her, but when the other woman came in front of us the prisoner turned round, facing me, momentarily—I should say, she took my purse with her left hand—I did not feel it taken—we had very little talk—she requested me to take a walk with her—I made no answer—I thought to get rid of her by walking fast—I was going home—the other woman was only in front of us for two or three yards—she had a great cloak on, which completely hid the prisoner—I described that woman at the station—I do not know what became of her—my pocket was unbuttoned, and had been for half an hour—I did not feel her hand about me at all—I said to her, "You have got my purse, give it to me"—she said, "I have not," but I saw it in her hand—she attempted to reach it to the other woman, but I thrust her away and called the policeman.
ANGUS PAYNE (City police-constable, No. 280.) I was called by the prosecutor and found this purse in the prisoner's hand—it contained four sovereigns, two half-crowns, five shillings, three sixpences, and a fourpenny-piece—I took her to the station.
WILLIAM OAKLEY (City policeconstable, No. 272.) I produce a certificate of the prisoner's former conviction, from Mr. Clark's office—I was a witness at the trial, and am sure she is the person referred to.
Cross-examined. Q. When was she tried? A. On the 12th or 17th of May—I think in the New Court, and before the Common Sergeant—(read.)
GUILTY . Aged 35.— Transported for Ten Years.
DANIEL CLOVES. I live at Oliver's terrace, East Bromley. The prisoner was in my service two years and a half, as under-housemaid—on the 5th of April I missed three half-sovereigns from my dressing-table—I called my sister who fetched the prisoner form the room above—I sent for a policeman, and said I would have her searched—she said, she hoped the policeman would not search her, she had no objection to my two sisters searching her—after they had retired, my sister called out, that she had found one half-sovereign.
Cross-examined by Mr. DOANE Q. Was this money loose in your dressing-room? A. Yes—I had occasion to leave my room for two minutes, and, on my return, these had been abstracted—I had twenty nine half sovereigns loose on the dressing-table—I am quite certain three were missing—I had counted them, in consequence of losing money on the Wednesday previous.
went with her into the next room—in taking off her dress, she was a long while in taking one hand out of the sleeve, and she kept her hand closed—I said, "Ann, you have something in your hand"—she changed it into the other hand, and brought that hand forward—I said, "Put both hands forward"—something fell from her—I said, "That is the half-sovereign"—she said, "No, it is the sixpence which I told you I had"—she had previously said, she only had sixpence—I picked it up, and it was a half-sovereign—I went with her into the drawing-room, and saw the policeman take two more half-sovereigns from her hair at the back of her head.
GUILTY . Aged 30
DANIEL CLOVES . I directed the policeman to search the prisoner's room, and he produced this watch and two seals—I recognized the seals immediately, as my property—I do not recognize the watch from its outward appearance—I missed a hunting-watch, with the name of Haley and Percival, London, in it—it had had a fall—the dial-plate was broken—it would not go, and I had put it in a drawer twelve months ago.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. This is a lady's watch? A. Yes—my watch had two gold cases—this has one—mine had a white face—I do not know the number of my watch—I am certain of the seals.
JAMES HOLMES , watchmaker, Domingo-street, St. Luke's. I fancy I have some recollection of this watch was brought to me by the prisoner's brother—it had then two gold cases—it was very much bruised and dilapidated, as if it was not good for much, very much injured from service—I put a new case to it, and a new dial—I charged 3l. for it, with the old gold cases—I took no account of the maker's name—I cannot swear positively that this is the watch.
MR. CLOVES re-examined. The seals are gold, I know nothing of the ring—the seals were not on it when I lost it.
Cross-examined. Q. Was it locked? A. No.
GUILTY of stealing the Seals. Aged 30.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.— Confined One Year
1046. WILLIAM MATHIE and JOSEPH HOOD were indicted for stealing 1 purse, value 1s., 1 sovereign, 1 half-sovereign, 2 half-crowns, 1 sixpence, and 1 10l. bank-note, the property of Richard Cobden; from the person of Catherine Ann Cobden; and that Hood bad been before connoted of felony.
CATHERINE ANN COBDEN . I am the wife of Richard Cobden, and live at No. 12, Alpha-road, Regent's-park. On Thursday, the 7th of March, I left No. 73, Newman-street, where I was staying, and went to Oxford-street, about twelve o'clock in the day—I had a purse in the pocket of my dress, containing a 10l. note, a sovereign and a half, and some silver—I returned to Newman-street, some little time before half-past twelve, and shortly after missed my purse and money—this is the purse—I think the bank-note in it is the same—mine was divided like this.
MICAIAH REED (police-constable E 30.) About one o'clock, on the 7th of March, I was passing down Oxford-street, and saw the prisoners together going towards Regent-circus—when they got to the corner of Market street,
I saw Hood place his hand against a lady's pocket—they turned back,-and followed the lady, who was going towards Tottenham-court-road—Hood walked by her side, and Mathie about a yard behind him—when they got a few yards past the Princess's Theatre, I saw Hood place his hand underneath the lady's pocket, which was in front of her dress, put it into her pocket, and draw out this purse, which he handed to Mathie, who was about a yard behind him—Mathie put it into his pocket, and both ran away as fast as they could, towards Tottenham-court-road—I followed and took them into custody, at the corner of Berners-street, and said, "Halloo, my lads, I have got you this time"—after conveying them about 200 yards, Mathie drew the purse from his pocket, and dropped it on the ground—I called on a gentleman who was near, to hold him while I picked up the purse—he ran away about threeparts across the road—I never lost sight of him—the gentleman stopped him and brought him back—I took them to the station, and found the purse contained this note and money—I found 10s. 6d. in silver on Mathie, and on Hood this whistle, this knife, three halfpence and a comb.
Hood. Q. Was I in Mathie's company? Witness. He was when I first saw him—he walked all the way up Oxford-street with him, till they came to Market-street, and then went back with him—in fact they ore constant com-panions.
Hood, I was coming from Harley-street; I saw Mathie, who I knew by being at Mr. Cham's, the baker's; he pulled out a purse, and said, "Here, look what a boy gave me;" another boy saw it. Witness. He did no such thing—I believe Mrs. Cobden to be the lady I saw—I did not see her face, but by her dress and figure I believe her to be the person.
WILLIAM POWELL . I am now a green-grocer, I was formerly a policeman I produce a certificate of Hood's former conviction from Clerkenwell sessions—I was a witness on the trial, and am quite certain he is the person—(read.)
MATHIE— GUILTY . Aged 14.— Confined One Year.
HOOD*— GUILTY . Aged 10.— Transportedfor Ten Years.—Parkhurst.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, April 10th, 1844.
Third Jury, before Mr. Justice Maule,
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Transported for Life.
Before Mr. Baron Gurney.
MESSRS. ELLIS and BODKIN conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES BRANNAN (police-sergeant G 20.) "On the 28th of Feb., from information I received, I went to a house in Green-court, Brick-lane, St. Luke's, with Hull, Redman, and Cole—I entered at the front door, went up stair to the door of the first floor room, found the door fast, and proceeded to force it open—I succeeded in forcing the upper part open sufficiently to be able to we into the room, and saw the prisoners there—Edmeads was sitting with his face towards me, and Burton was sitting sideways, Edmeads holding something white in his hand, and Burton holding a large spoon close to that white
substance in Edmeads's hand, with a pail between them—directly the door was broken open they saw me, and both put their hands out as if flinging something into the nice clear fire which was burning—I did not see any thing pass from their hands—I then noticed Edmeads put something white into his mouth—it was the same white thing as I had seen in his hand—Burton went towards a cupboard in the room, then came to the door, and put his shoulder against the door and resisted us very much as we were still trying to force the other part of the door—at last, with the assistance of the officers, I forced the door open, seized Edmeads by the throat, and four pieces of plaster of Paris came from his mouth—I looked at the pail, and noticed some melted white metal in it—Edmeads resisted very much—there was some plaster in the pail besides and water—I went to the cupboard I had seen Burton go to, and found two moulds, which I produce—when I first entered the room I asked Edmeads what he meant by this—he said, "I don't know what you mean"—I said to Burton, "What game do you call this?"—he said, "I know nothing about it"—we took them into custody, and took possession of the things I now produce.
Cross-examined by MR. ROBERTSON. Q. As soon as you opened the door you could see what the parties were about? A. Yes—directly the door was opened they removed—I crept up the stairs very gently—forcing the door made a noise—Burton put the spoon back towards the stove—I did not see him do any thing in the cupboard—I could not—his hands were white as if he had been handling some plaster—this plaster was found in the cupboard—I saw some white laying about the room—I do not recollect seeing a clothes brush—I will swear Burton had not one in his hand.
Edmeads. Q. On your oath, did you come softly up stairs or run up? A. Very softly, as quietly as I could—the very first shove I gave the door the top part came open—(the witness's deposition being read at Edmeads's request, agreed with his evidence.)
JOHN HULL (policeman.) I accompanied the other officers to this room—the door was fastened with a poker stuck into the wainscot with a staple—we burst the pannel of the door open—Burton turned round previous to our going into the room, and threw something into the fire-place—Edmeads took something up, which was part of this plaster of Paris mould, and put it into his mouth—I saw Brannan take it out of his mouth—I found this pipkin on the fire with this iron spoon and part of the metal in it, and three half-crown pieces—I also found this mug.
Cross-examined. Q. How long were you breaking open the door? A. I should say half a minute—they were sitting with a pail of water between them—Burton turned towards the fire, threw something in, then directly got up, came to the door, and tried to prevent our coming in—I and the other policemen were standing together—the cupboard was on the same side as the fire-place, on the opposite side of the room.
Edmeads. He said I took something up, and put it to my mouth, and threw something into the fire. Witness, I did not see Edmeads throw anything into the fire—he took up this part of a mould—his mouth was all covered with white—we went up stain softly.
HENRY REDMAN (policeman.) I went to this room—when the door was partly forced open I saw Edmeads throw something into the fire—we forced the door open—Burton resisted our opening it—when we got in I saw Edmeads with something in his mouth—part of it fell—it was plaster of Paris, like a mould—the other officer took possession of it—I examined the fire-place, and found part of five half-crowns in the fire, burning hot—I raked out some pieces of metal from the fire—I produce part of two spoons, which I found on the hearth, in the fender—I found this metal in the ashes—it was
hot—I produce two forks, which were stock in the floor, with the handle of the broom against them, and the other end of the broom against the door—the poker was put through the staple, to fasten the door also.
Cross-examined. Q. Was there a lock to the door? A. Yes—the door was locked as well—Burton came to the door to prevent our coming in—I saw him standing against the fire-place when the door was partly open.
Edmeads. Q. On which side of the fire-place was I when you first saw me? A. I think the further side from the fire when I first saw him, but the other officers were before me—I saw something in his mouth, then saw him take something and throw it into the fire.
ROBERT COLE . I accompanied the other officers to the room—I went up a few minutes after the others—I found a plaster of Paris mould for t fourpennypiece; two files, with metal in the teeth, which is there now; a pair of scissors, all over plaster of Paris; a little pot, with some composition, and a quantity of plaster of Paris.
Cross-examined. Q. You saw these things lying about the room? A. The scissors and one file were on the table, and one file on the mantel-piece.
Edmeads, Q. How far were you from the street door when the officers went up stairs? A. One or two yards, watching the window—they went up softly, so that no one could hear them.
MR. JOHN FIELD , I am inspector of counterfeit coin to the Mint. This is a plaster of Paris mould, intended to cast half-crowns—it bears the impression of both sides of a William IV. half-crown—it appears to have been used very much—here is another plaster of Paris mould for shillings of George III., 1816, which appears to have been very much used, and has both sides of the impression—here are three counterfeit half-crowns, all of which have been cast in the mould I have spoken to—two of them are finished, and one unfinished, as it comes from the mould—here are portions of two broken white metal spoons, of similar metal to the half-crowns—here is some more metal, which has been recently fused, and here are portions of counterfeit half-crowns, attached to it, as if thrown into the fused metal while hot—all these half-crowns have been cast in the mould I have spoken to—scissors are generally used to separate the get from coin—this file has white metal in the teeth—it is generally used to remove any surplus metal—this iron spoon has been used to lade the metal from the pipkin—it has metal in it now—the pipkin contains similar metal—I do not know anything of this box of composition—here is some plaster of Paris, the material of which the moulds are composed—these four pieces of white produced by Brannan, as coming from Edmeads' mouth are plaster of Paris in a solid state, but have no impression on them—a pail of water could be used to immerse the moulds into immediately, in cast of alarm, to destroy the impression, which would be done in a very short time—here is part of a mould, for fourpenny-pieces, but the impression is nearly obliterated.
Cross-examined. Q. It is necessary the metal should be in a fused state? A. Yes—they must be near enough to reach the fire to make the half-crowns—this mould is made from a good half-crown—nothing more than the articles produced is requisite to make the coin.
Edmeads' Defence. I met Burton in Old-street; be asked me if I could take him where he could brush his coat, as he had been out all night; I said we had no brush at my place, but there was one at my mother's; he accompanied me there, and, on going up stairs, (the key of the door is always left on the landing,) I found the room door ajar, and found the room in the
same state as the officers found it; I just put the piece of iron in the door, as it had no other fastening; I had not been in the room ten minutes before I heard a dreadful crashing up the stairs, and a forcing at the door; before I could get to the door to open it, the top panel came quite in; Brannan laid hold of me, but as to having plaster of Paris or mould in my mouth, I swear it is false; I asked him to call the landlady up; he said, if I said another word, he would knock me down; the woman who lives under the room says they came running up stairs, in such a manner that she has not been able to go out of doors since, she was so frightened.
EDMEADS— GUILTY . Aged 20.
BURTON— GUILTY . Aged 25.
Transported for Fifteen Years.
Before Mr. Baron Gurney.
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS BERNARD M'CARTHY . I keep the Hand and Flower public-house, in King's-road, Fulham—the prisoner keeps the Cadogan Arms, in the King's-road, Chelsea. On the 12th of Jan. last, I went to his house at about a quarter past twelve o'clock in the morning—I was going to Brighton—I asked him for a card of the regulations of the Brighton railroad—I took some drink, and offered some to the prisoner—he would not take any at first—a man came in with some fowls, a rabbit, and a goose, which was purchased, and a supper was arranged for the evening—it was raining very hard from twelve to half-past twelve at night—that induced me not to go to Brighton—we sat down to supper about six, or ten minutes before—I had not left the house from twelve till that time—I had been drinking there—a man, named Fry, was there at supper—I told him I was told by a person named Humphries, that he had drunk some punch the night before in my absence, which he had not paid for—he denied it (I had been there the night before, and had 4s. worth of punch between five of us) I called for some wine and water—it was served to me—I cannot say whether the prisoner gave it me—I ordered it of him—I drank part of it—I fancied it was not genuine—I felt queer after, and went out of the room three times—as I was going down into the yard, the prisoner was in the passage, laughing—the door of the water-closet was barricaded—I remained there I dare say halfan-hour, I felt so ill—I came into the room again—Davis was laughing with the people in the room—he asked where I got that coat which I had on, that it was a very handsome one, and if it was paid for—I told him it was, I was not in the habit of wearing my clothes before they were paid for, I always paid my way—he said he did not think I did—I told him perhaps he might be alluding to a former transaction, where he was concerned with another person, in trying to extort 5l. from me—he said if I said so again, he would smash me—he got up—I told him he was, and 1 had got two letters to prove it in black and white—he said if I repeated the words again he would smash my brains—he took hold of the poker—I was sitting down—my hat was off—I turned my head on one side, and received a blow with the poker, and I turned on my left—I have no recollection of anything that took place after the blow, till I found myself outside the door, recovering—it was then raining very hard—I was about a yard from the door, in the street—I felt my head was injured—I put my hand up, and found it had been strapped—it must have been about twelve o'clock—there are shutters to the house—I could see
a glimmering light through, as if of a fire, not of gas—I heard people speaking inside—I told a policeman what had occurred, and went down to the station, and made a complaint to the sergeant on duty—I went home—the house was shut up—there was no light—I sat down, and dropped off my seat—I consider I fainted—next morning I went to a chemist's shop—I afterwards went and got my head shaved—no medical man saw my head till the Tuesday afternoon, the 16th—Mr. Route then attended me—I was confined to my bed about fourteen days.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. How long have you been a publican? A. About four years—I have known the prisoner nearly five years—I had been there the night before this took place, and had some punch—I had not been drinking a good deal before the supper began—I was there from twelve at noon till twelve at night—I had been drinking before supper—the prisoner did not remonstrate with me on my conduct to some of his customers—as far as I remember, he made no remonstrance or complaint to me—I think this altercation took place about half-past seven—we had had supper then—I told Fry what I was told—that was after I had supped with him—I might have had a glass of beer at supper—I do not say that I drank more at supper—after supper I had 3d. worth of brandy—the prisoner was present while I was telling Fry what had happened—I was sitting in the left-hand corner of the room—I was not near the prisoner—I did not tee Mrs. Davis in the bar at all—Fry denied that he had tasted my punch—the prisoner also assured me I was mistaken, and that Fry did not do so—I did not hear him refer to his wife to satisfy me that I was in error—I swear he did not say he would inquire of his wife to ascertain from her whether or not Fry was present when the punch was served—I did not hear the prisoner say, "Hear what she says, that Fry left the house before the punch was served"—I did not say, "Oh, Mrs. Davis will say anything for Mrs. Fry, for she is as big a w——as you are a liar," nor any words to that effect—I made no allusion to Mrs. Davis whatever—I might have made allusion to the prisoner being a liar, about being concerned in this 5l. matter—I think I might have said he was wrong—I will not positively swear I did—I have letters in my possession to satisfy me that he was concerned in it—Davis did not say, "Come now, I insist on your going out"—I had a small cane with me—I did not flourish it about, and say I would not go out, I would go out when I liked—the prisoner did not on that take me by the collar and say he would insist on turning me out—we did not have a struggle in which I fell; nothing of the kind took place—he never laid hold of me, we never struggled together, and never fell together—I saw a policeman soon after I was outside the house—he declined taking any notice of my complaint—I was told that I appeared as if I had been drinking, and that Davis would not run away; that he was to be found to-morrow—I am sure I was not told I was too drunk for the charge to be taken—I told M'Caskery, the constable on duty, he might have gone in if he liked—the house was not shut up—there was light in the room—there were people in the house at the time—I swear the house was open at the time I spoke to the constable—the door was shut—it could not be closed if there were people in the house—on the next night, about half-past nine o'clock, I went to a chemist's—I have not brought him here—he dressed my wound on Saturday night—I found my head had been attended to when I was outside the house—some strapping had been put to it—I walked to the chemist's that night, and on Sunday and Monday—on the Tuesday Mr. Rouse saw me for the first time—I know Mr. Reeves, a publican—I called on him on the Saturday, the day after—I had some beer there, and tasted a little drop of gin and water—I have made a charge of
assault twice before—I hare indicted two people for assaulting me in public-houses—one was named Watts, a licensed victualler—I indicted him at the Clerkenwell Sessions—I did not go on with it—the other party was Bennett, a licensed victualler—he was indicted at the Surrey Sessions—he did not give notice of trial—he was never tried—it is three years ago—I have never charged any other people—I made one more charge at the station—I did not charge anybody with striking me on the head with a hammer or any other weapon—Watts struck me with a short knife—I have not made charges which the police refused to take, from my being in a state of intoxication—Mr. Reeves said it was a very dangerous blow I had received, and that Mr. Davis ought to be punished for it—I said he should be punished—I did not say to Mr. Reeves I would not take 75l. out of 100l. for the case, nor any sum—I did not say what I would take for the chance, nor any language of that kind.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. What did Watts do to induce you to stop the prosecution? A. He sent a person to try to intimidate my wife three or four times; he at last sent me 10l. that is about fourteen months ago—the case of Bennett was four years ago—he did not give me notice of trial, and I never went on with it—he appeared at the Sessions; the case was called on; I got no notice of trial, and he was acquitted—he had offered to settle it previously—the charge at the station was for wilful damage at my house, not for an assault on me—I had been drinking on this night—I was not sober—I had not made use of any expression to the defamation or detriment of Mrs. Davis—I had porter, some hot beer, and gin—I cannot say the quantity—I was not perfectly sober when I sat down to dinner—I was not Very drunk.
ROBERT ROUSE , surgeon, Walham-green. I attended the prosecutor—the first day I saw him was the 17th of Jan.—he sent to me on the night of the 16th, but I was engaged—I prescribed for him—I saw him on the Wednesday in the fore part of the day, in bed, in his own house—I examined his head—I found the hair had been shaved from the crown towards the ear—it was a very severe wound, not a clean cut wound, but torn and lacerated—there was one long wound, from an inch and a half to two inches long, commencing not quite at the centre of the head, and running towards the ear—there was another smaller wound, about a quarter of an inch long, cutting that at right angles, going towards the back of the head—it was very small—the head was very much swollen and inflamed, and altogether a very unhealthy-looking, ill-conditioned wound—the scalp was divided down to the skull—it decidedly might have been inflicted by a poker, or by any heavy, hard, obtuse sub-stance—it was not incised—it could not have been received without considerable violence—I attended him daily from the 17th to the 30th or 31 st—my assistant attended him subsequent to that—I considered him to be in a very dangerous state when I first saw him, from the wound and from a great deal of fever produced by the wound—he kept his room, by my direction, about ten days; I cannot recollect to a day or two—there were symptoms of derangement of the brain, great head-ache—I considered him out of danger at the end of eight or ten days.
Cross-examined. Q. Might not the wound have been produced by a man falling heavily against the sharp edge of a fire-place, suppose a marble slab? A. It is quite probable, or against a fender, or any hard body, or by falling direct on the fender; it is possible, but not probable—I cannot conceive how a man could fall perpendicularly on the centre of the head—there was an abrasion of the cuticle—it was rubbed off—it began within less than an inch of the centre—it might be possible that in a struggle he might be so thrown as to place his head in a position to come against the side of the fireplace,
and cause such a wound; but I think it improbable from the situation intemperate habits would materially affect the wound.
COURT. Q. An injury of this kind received when a man is drunk, is worse than if sober? A. Of course, and if he continued habits of intemperance it would be worse instead of better; it would aggravate the inflammation.
MR. DOANB called
FREDERICK FRY . I am a painter, living in King's-road, Chelsea. Between seven and eight o'clock on the evening of the 12th of January, I went to the Cadogan Arms—I saw the prosecutor there—when I went in he was in the passage that forms part of the bar, close to the bar, walking about—he appeared rather intoxicated—in the course of the evening, he said I had partaken of five glasses of punch, which he had paid for the evening before, which I denied—he repeated it a number of times, till it became quite offensive—he did it in the early part of the evening—he accused me of it as soon as I came into the house—but as soon as supper was over, in consequence of his repeating this, I applied to Mr. Davis, and he applied to Mrs. Davis—he asked her, in M'Carthy's hearing, if I had partaken of any punch anywhere, and where the punch was when I had left the house—she answered, I bad left the house previous to her sending the punch into the room—on that Davis came back into the room, and asked M'Carthy if he was satisfied now—M'Carthy said, "Of course, Mrs. Davis will say anything for Fry, she is as big a wh——as you are a liar"—on this, Davis sprang from where he was standing, caught him by the collar, and in one moment they were both on the ground, Davis rather undermost—it was so suddenly, I cannot decidedly say whether it was the fire-place or fender struck his head—he fell in a direction towards the fire-place—they separated—Davis got up first—I helped M'Carthy up—Davis went out of the room immediately, rather shaking—it was a severe sudden tumble—M'Carthy's head was hurt—I looked at it and cut the hair off, it was bleeding a little—he said nothing about how it happened—I washed it and put a little white plaister on—the servant of the house brought the water—Davis was at the door—he did not assist in dressing the wound—he sent the servants to me—M'Carthy was perfectly sensible at that time—when I placed him in a chair, I said, "You are not hurt, are you?"—he said, "Ain't I though"—the first I knew of his having wounded himself was, his placing his hand to his head, and when I removed it I saw blood on it—I said I am sorry for what has occurred—I asked to look at his head—he said no, at first—he would not allow me—at last he did allow me—I saw an injury—he said, "What have I done that I should be struck with a poker"—I said, "You have not been struck with any poker here"—he did not say anything more—he remained there about an hour after the occurrence—I do not know whether he drank anything after it—some brandy was brought into the room—I do not know whether he partook of it, it was not used for anything that I know of—at the time he received the hurt, the persons in the room were Mr. Davis, M'Carthy, and myself—I am perfectly sure that, during the time I was there, Davis used no poker to M'Carthy—he did not touch one—he struck him with nothing—there was no blow of any kind struck, either with hand or poker, with the exception of snatching him by the collar—after he had been an hour in the house, he went away—I asked him if I should assist him home—he said, "No, he was quite capable of conducting himself," with some show of indignation—I then asked him if the potman should see him home—he refused—he walked away very fast out of the house by himself—from the time he fell till he was picked up, there might be two minutes elapse—after he was picked up till he left the house he was not insensible one moment—I should say he left the house between twelve and
one o'clock—I cannot say positively—his conduct to the customers in the coffee-room, that evening, was insulting in the extreme—Mr. Davis remonstrated with him, several times, on his conduct, and desired him to leave the house two or three times—his answer was, he should go when he liked—there was a cast-iron fender to the fire-place, with a very sharp edge and sharp points at the corner.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Are you in the habit of using this public-house? A. Only occasionally, sometimes twice a-week—I do not belong to the Derby Club—I have heard of a Derby Club there—I never heard that M'Carthy was a party to one—on the night in question I did not hear M'Carthy state that the landlord had been a party to endeavour to extort 5l. from him—I do not remember M'Carthy calling for a glass of wine and water—I did not go out to the water-closet—I did not bar up the door of it—M'Carthy said, he would make him pay for this—he did not say then, "What have I done to be struck with a poker?"—he did say those words, but afterwards—I was at this public-house this morning, and saw the fender there—I had not been to the punch party the night before—I was not there when the bowl of punch was produced—I heard there was to be one—I sometimes go to other public-houses—I have been to the Black Lion, in Church-lane—a person, named Davis, keeps the house—I was there on the Wednesday after this happened—I do not know Thomas Griffith—(a man, named Griffith, was called in)—I know that person—I never saw him in my company—he was not there, that I know of—I cannot swear he was not—I did not say in his presence, "It will be a very bad job for Davis, for he has struck M'Carthy with the poker, and he fell to the ground, and his head was "—I swear that—not on any occasion—if I said anything about it, it was very near the statement I have made now; but I very much doubt that I said anything at all—I have said, it was a bad job for myself to be taken out of my business—M'Carthy was about four or five feet from the fender! at the time Davis sprung upon him.
WILLIAM GRIFFITH . I am a surgeon. I know the prisoner—I have examined the fire-place at his house, and seen the fender—I have heard Mr. Rouse's account of the wound on the prisoner's head—I am of opinion, after hearing all. the evidence, that the wound might be received in the struggle, being thrown down, and his head coming side-ways against the fire-place, which would put on the same appearance, as a wound inflicted by a blunt instrument.
MR. CLARKSON called
THOMAS GRIFFITH . I am a servant in place. I am now working for Mr. M'Carthy the prosecutor, and have been with him ever since Sunday last—I previously lived at the Wheatsheaf, Smithfield—I go to the prosecutor's every summer—on the 17th of Jan., I was at the bar of the Black Lion, Church-street, Chelsea—I saw Fry there that day—he said it was a very bad job for Davis; for he had struck M'Carthy with a poker, knocked him to the ground, and cut his head dreadfully.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
1050. JAMES HERRING was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Edward Markin, on the night of the 6th of March, with intent to steal, and stealing therein 124 cigars, value 6s. 2d.; half a pint of brandy, 3s.; 1 bottle, 3s.; 6 pence; and 26 halfpence; his property.
to bed at ten minutes after one o'clock, and left the house all securer—the doors and windows were fastened, and the property in the house was right and straight—I was called up about four o'clock by a policeman—the backdoor was then open—I suppose a person was concealed in the house previous to my fastening the back-door, which I did the last thing, before going to bed—there was nothing broken—I examined, and found some one had been in the bar—I looked in the cupboard, where there was a two-pound box of cheroots—the box was there, but some of the cheroots were gone, also about two-thirds of a pint of brandy, and some copper, I do not know how much exactly—I am certain some was gone—the bulk was less—about ten o'clock the same evening, I saw some of the copper coin at the station, and also the cheroots and brandy—a soda-water bottle was taken with the brandy—I had no private mark on the copper.
JOHN POTTER (police-constable S 312.) On the 7th of Feb., about two in the morning, I was standing in front of the prosecutor's house, and saw the prisoner coming from the back into the road—I stopped him and asked where he came from—he said, "Out of the Shires"—said, "You came out of the building here"—he said, "I have been sleeping in the stable"—I asked, what he had got about him—he said, "Nothing"—I said, "You have got something in your pocket"—he said, "It is nothing, only a few cigars"—I asked if he had any thing else, he said, no, he had not—I said, "There is something in the other pocket"—he said, "It is a bottle of rum"—I asked if he had got anything else, he said, he had not—I said, "There is something else"—he said, "It is only a few coppers"—I said, "You must go with me to the sta-tion "—the things Mr. Markin saw at the station were what I took from him—I produce them—I know Mr. Markin's back-door—the prisoner was coming from there when I saw him.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You asked him three times if he had got anything? A. Yes—I do not like to search any body at the moment of stopping them—I am quite sure he said he had rum—I smelt it was brandy—he was the worse for liquor, but not much, when I first stopped him—he seemed worse afterwards.
EDWARD MARKIN re-examined. These are called cheroots, and they are often called Pickwicks—they are not cigars—I cannot swear to the bottle, because there are so many of them—there is no particular mark—I have no private mark on the copper—there was one halfpenny I can swear to because I took it myself on the Wednesday morning, and which I refused—this is it—(looking at it)—I took it of a man for a pint of porter in the tap-room—I told him it was a bad one—he said, "Never mind, if yon don't get rid of it, when I come again I will give you another for it," and I threw it into the bowl—it was very old—there was no mark on it—I noticed it particularly—I have not the least doubt it was among my copper in the drawer on the morning of the 7th of March when I shut up—these are the sort of things that I had in the bar—the brandy was not in this bottle when missed—it was drawn from the tap—I missed the same quantity as was in the bottle.
Cross-examined. Q. How can you ascertain the quantity of brandy that was missing? A. By the depth of the tub that contained it—I am certain that none of my family had a drop in the night—I am the last and first person up—it is not at all difficult to say how much brandy was gone—I tasted it at the station—I missed the bottle—the bolt bad been undone to let him out.
NOT GUILTY .
Fourth Jury, before Mr. Recorder.
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
MARY ANN ROSE , jeweller, Farringdon-street. About three o'clock on the afternoon of the 17th of Feb. the prisoners came to my shop—they came in one close upon the other—Earnshaw asked to be shown some little finger rings—Wells held her finger to show about the size that was wanted—I showed them some rings, but they did not approve of them—Earnshaw then asked for fruit-knives—I showed them some—they asked the prices of several, and chiefly of the larger kind—they rejected them, saying they wanted some much smaller than any there, and with a tortoise-shell handle—they had not said any thing about the size previously—they left the shop immediately after—the instant they were out of the shop I missed one of the two largest knives—I desired Lynn, my boy, to follow them—this knife now produced is mine—it has my private mark on it—it was one I was showing the prisoners—it is not the one I missed—that was a large one—I have never seen it again—I know I had it ten minutes before they were in the shop—it was one I showed them—it was in consequence of missing that knife 1 sent after them.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. What is there on that knife which enables you to say it was part of your stock? A. The letters F and R and a stroke between, denoting shillings and pence, the price at which 1 purchased it—it would still have that mark upon it whether it was sold or not.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Can you tell whether you have sold that knife? A. I am quite certain I have not—my books would prove it—they are not here—I bought six of these knives very recently, three of different patterns—this is one of the three, and I have the other two still—at the lime I bought this I bought eighteen—I have sold two of them.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Do you speak from what you find in your books? A. No, from memory—I have sold the two largest belonging to these three—a young lady who has lived with me nine years also sells in the shop.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Are you certain from having examined your stock that this knife was not sold by you? A. Quite.
ANDREW LYNN . I am the prosecutor's servant. On the 17th of Feb., by her desire, I followed the prisoners out of the shop—they went into Flemming's, the pawnbroker's, in Farringdon-street—I gave information to the police.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Do you mean to say they both went into the pawnbroker's shop? A. Both went up the steps, and as soon as they did that I ran back to give information—I cannot say whether both went in—I heard Flemming's shopman state at the examination that only one came into the shop.
JAMES REARDON , shopman to Mr. Flemming, pawnbroker. On the 17th of Feb., about three o'clock in the day, I saw Wells—I did not see Earnshaw—there are two entrances into the shop, one into the front shop, and the other into the boxes—the steps adjoin both—Wells came into the boxes, the entrance to which is in the passage—whether Earnshaw was in the passage I cannot tell.
BENJAMIN ADAMS (City police-constable, No. 214.) The prisoners were given into my custody in Holborn by Andrew Lynn—I took them to the station—I told them they were accused of going into Mrs. Rose's shop, and stealing a silver fruit-knife—they denied taking it.
GEORGE CHAMBERS (City police-constable, No. 346.) I am clerk at the station-house in Black Horse-court. On the 17th of Feb. the prisoners were at the station-house—I saw Wells with a boa—I felt something hard in it, and on examining it, found one or two holes in it, and in it was this silver fruit-knife—there was not any particular hole—this is the boa—these are the two holes.
EARNSHAW— NOT GUILTY .
WELLS— GUILTY .
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
THOMAS CLAPHAM . I live at No. 14, in the Strand. About the beginning of January I saw the two prisoners upon two occasions—they did not make any purchase on either occasion—the three rings now produced are my property—they have never been sold—I know they were in the stock some time ago, and that they have not been sold—no one but myself and partner sell—the prisoners saw rings on both occasions, and on the first occasion they saw trays containing 300 rings, among which were these—the policeman gave us information, and I saw them at Guildhall—we had not missed them up to that time.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Is your partner here? A. No—he sells in the shop as well as myself.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Did you serve the prisoners on both occasions? A. yes.
BENJAMIN ADAMS (City police-constable No. 214.) I examined the prisoners premises, at Mr. Hughes's, No. 8, Park-street, Camden-town, and found two rings in a dressingcase—neither of them said whose dressing-case it was—the landlord went into the room with us—I did not show the rings to either of the prisoners afterwards.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you take any keys from Wells? A. I did not—a female searched her—I saw some keys that were taken from her—I had possession of them—it was with those keys I opened the places.
WILLIAM HUGHES . The prisoners lodged at my house—they occupied two rooms on the first floor, and a bed-room on the floor above—it was a double bedded room—both slept in the same room—they were both together then they took the apartments—I remember the officers coming to search—they went up into the prisoners' rooms—the dressing-case was in the sitting-room, which was occupied by both the prisoners—they frequently walked out together.
Cross-examined. Q. During the time yon have known them, hare they booth borne the characters of respectable persons in the neighbourhood? A. Very highly so—I had the highest opinion of them—Wells lived with Earnshaw, as her companion and friend—they lodged at my house rather better than twelve months—they were away about six weeks in the summer—I never heard anything to their prejudice before this.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. How do you know Wells was her companion? A. I consider she was engaged as a companion—we had every reason to believe so.
COURT. Q. Did she contribute to the expenses? A. I believe not—they
lived in the same room, and at the same table—Earnshaw paid me for what was had.
EARNSHAW— NOT GUILTY .
WELLS— GUILTY .
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE SHEPHERD , I manage the business of John Smith, No. 75, Strand. The prisoners came there one day in the middle of Feb.—I do not know the day—Earnshaw wanted to see some of the watches in the tray in the window—I took it out—they looked at the tray, and asked the price of a great number of watches—the lowest-priced watch in that tray was ten guineas—they said they were all too expensive—both of them spoke—Earnshaw said they were too expensive, had I not anything at about 6l.—I turned my head to open the window to get some at 6l.—at that time I lost sight of the tray—I showed them some at that price—they bought nothing—they did not like what I showed them—Wells said they would write to the lady in the country, who had commissioned them to buy a watch—they were standing both together—I did not miss the watch till the policeman brought it about ten days after.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Will you undertake to swear it was in Feb. the prisoners came? A. Certainly—I was examined before the Magistrate early in March—it was not five weeks before that that they came—the prisoners both spoke when they came in, and said, "We want to look at those watches in the tray in the window"—they both said so at the same time.
COURT. Q. Did you refer to your book when the policeman brought the watch? A. I did, and the number corresponded with the number in our stock-book, which I have here—it is a gold watch with an engraved back.
WILLIAM HUGHES . Wells gave me a watch in the station—I cannot swear this is the watch—I handed it to Hollingsworth, I believe—it was the evening they were taken into custody between nine and ten o'clock.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. When Wells gave you the watch, did she not ask you to take care of her watch? A. She did—she said, "I wish you would take care of my watch, I am fearful it will get damaged. "
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. What part of her person did she take it from? A. I do not know—I was sitting between the two prisoners on a bench—Earnshaw was behind me—she did not say anything, or take any notice—I do not know that she saw it.
CATHERINE DRURY . I am searcher at the station. I searched the prisoners—I found only a penny on Earnshaw—on Wells I found two purses, containing together 1l. 15s., and some odd halfpence—she told me the purse the 12s. 3d. was in belonged to Earnshaw.
MR. SHEPHERD re-examined. This is the watch—it has never been sold from our shop—it was one of those in the tray.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Does Mr. Smith take no part in the business? A. He only keeps the book and marks off the stock—he is at home minding the shop now—I manage the business, and never leave it—I am there every day from seven o'clock in the morning till eight at night—I have no share in the business, I have a fixed salary—I have managed this business for Mr. Smith seven year, but I have been in the house thirty-two years altogether—the
name of Thomas Hawley is over the door—we are in a Chancery suit, which is not over, I mean Hawley's suit—I meant nothing by saying "we"—I am no party to it—I managed Mr. Hawley's business—Mr. Smith does not serve customers—he does not understand the business—a boy sits in the shop when I get my meals—he has no authority to sell—I treated this as a common-place transaction which I am subject to every day—Mr. Smith purchased the business—he pays me my wages under the Master of Chancery's orders, and he pays the rent of the house—the money taken is put into the cash-box, and we use it in the business—nobody draws any money out but Mr. Smith for the keep of the house—he takes money out of the till every Mon-day morning, so much a week, to pay the expenses—the cash-box does not get full, times are so bad; there are more sellers than buyers—the money in the cash-box is Mr. Smith's—the loss of this watch is out of his pocket—he is attending to the shop while I am here—I do not suppose he will do any business—if a person chose a watch ticketed in the window at a price, he would take the money for it—we have trade marks to all our watches, to show the cost price—Mr. Smith was not brought up to the business—I have very seldom left him in care of the shop; perhaps not five times in the year.
BENJAMIN ADAMS (City police-constable, No. 214.) I found 9l. odd, I think, in the dressing-case; I think there was a 5l. note—there was jewellery, gold pencil-cases, and lockets—I did not hear any one claim the money—I gave it up at the Hall—I did not see to whom it was handed.
THOMAS HOLLINOSWORTH re-examined. I received the keys from Lloyd—I went to the house with Adams, and took the keys with me—I opened the dressing-case with one of the keys—a note and some sovereigns were found in it.
EARNSHAW— GUILTY .
WELLS— GUILTY .
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
Between three and four o'clock on Saturday afternon, the 17th of Feb., Wells came to our shop—there are two entrances, one into the boxes, and one into the fore part of the shop—there is a passage which runs into the boxes and into the street—she pawned this gold locket for 8s.
WILLIAM BUTLER . I am assistant to George Lamb, jeweller, 69, Cheapside. I have seen the prisoners at our shop; the last time was on the 17th of Feb., I think, between one and two o'clock—I received some communication from an officer—this locket now produced is ours—the prisoners had been looking at lockets—Earnshaw had desired to see them.
COURT. Q. Had they bought anything? A. No—when they came they asked to see lockets, which I showed them—the excuse they made for not buying was, one was too large and another too small for the miniature they wanted it for—Earnshaw spoke of the miniature.
ANDREW LYNN . I am servant to Mrs. Rose. On Saturday, the 17th of Feb., by her direction, I followed the prisoners to Mr. Fleming's shop—they both went up the steps—I then left them, to give information.
(Rev. John Wilson; Theophilus Carrington; Robert Wright, of Hull; William Hughes, Stationer, Park-street, Camden-town; William Robson,
grocer, High-street, Camden-town; William Pitt, baker, Park-street, Camden-town; and Mary Ward; gave both the prisoners good characters.)
EARNSHAW.— GUILTY . Aged 34.
WELLS— GUILTY . Aged 28.
Transported for Seven Years.
MR. DOANE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM CATON , farmer, Blackmoor, Essex. I have several cows—the cow in question was safe, in a yard in my farm, which is twenty-five miles from Bethnal-green—I saw the cow safe late in the afternoon of the 13th or 14th—I went to the farm about nine o'clock in the morning, and missed the cow—I next saw it on the 21st, at Bethnal-green, on the premises of MR. MANN.
JAMES MANN , cowkeeper, Three Colt-lane, Bethnal green. On the 14th of March, between eight and nine o'clock in the morning, the prisoner came to my place with a white cow, which seemed very much distressed from over-driving—he asked if I would buy her—I said no, I did not think I would, she would lay too long before she would calve for me—he said, "No, she will not lay above three weeks; the farmer told me of whom I bought her;"—he said he bought her of a farmer, three miles the other side of Hertford—I said she would lay six weeks or two months—I asked what he would have for her, he said 9l.—I said that was too much—I gave him 7l. 10s. for it—that cow was afterwards seen by Malin and the prosecutor.
Cross-examined by MR. BALDWIN. Q. Did you know the prisoner before? A. Yes, as a carman, living with Mr. Lovell—he has dealt in a few cows—7l. 10s. was a fair price for the cow in the condition she was—she was very much distressed and in ill condition—I thought 9l. too much.
MR. DOANE. Q. How long is it since he lived with Mr. Lovell? A. think eight or ten months—I have lived in the neighbourhood nineteen or twenty years.
THOMAS MALIN (police-constable H 74.) On the 20th of March I took the prisoner into custody in a coffee-house in Whitechapel—next day, as I was taking him to the police-court, Worship-street, he said he was employed to sell the cow, by a man—I asked him who that man was—he said he did not know where he was.
GUILTY . Aged 24.
MR. DOANE conducted the Prosecution.
GEORGE PAVITT, FARMER , Bobbingsworth, Essex, I had a heifer, safe on the 1st of March—I kept it in a field, about a quarter of a mile from my house, and twenty-one miles from Whitechapel—I saw it safe between six and seven o'clock in the evening—I saw it next on the 27th, at Barnet cattle-fair, in possession of Mr. Debnam.
CHARLES WATKINS , butcher, No. 67, Whitechapel market. On the 2nd of March I bought the heifer of the prisoner, about five o'clock in the evening—it was tied up with some others—I did not perceive it had been driven then—I gave 3l. 5s. for it, which was its value, for killing—I asked him where it came from—he said he had bought it at a sale, with two other cows at Brent wood—he did not say when—I did not kill her—I sent, her to Smith-field market on the Monday, and it was sold by Mr. Cope salesman to Nicholls, for 5l. 10s.
COURT. Q. Was not 3l. 5s. a very short price? A. It was the value for killing, but on Monday morning I found it was in calf and it would be of more value to a grazier than to kill.
WILLIAM NICHOLLS . I am a drover and jobber. I bought the heifer for Mr. Debnam, for 5l. 10s., in Watkins's presence—I took it down to Barnet, where Mr. Pavitt saw it—after buying it, I found it was not worth 50s., from having been so overdriven—in fact she will never recover—I was nine hours getting her nearly ten miles.
Prisoner's Defence. Mr. Mann said I might bring anything I liked to his place, and because I would not sell this cow for what he wanted, he has made this up; he has got a few more cows which he hat got wrong. I had them to sell, not for myself; the cow was brought to the Three Mackerel and Bell, for me to sell.
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Transported for Ten Years.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, April 11th, 1844.
Second Jury, before Edward Bullock, Esq.
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM INNES . I am clerk to the Ratcliff Gaslight and Coke Company, and live in the upper part of the counting-house belonging to the company; the lower part is used as offices; there are two keys, one leading to the counting-house, which is under the same roof as the rest of the premises. On Friday, the 23rd of Feb. I locked up the secretary's office, and left on the table 10l. worth of copper money, tied in 5s. packages—I took the key up to my apartment—I returned to the office at six o'clock in the morning—the outer door had not been broken open—the prisoner was once in the com-pany's service, and about that time the key of the outer door was missing, and another obtained—I found the door of the secretary's office had a pane of glass knocked out, which would enable a person to unfasten the lock inside—I missed 7l. 10s. in 5s. packages of copper—the secretary's desk was broken open, but nothing missing—my own desk was broken, and 4s. 11l., taken from it—I found a desk in the inspector's room broken open, but nothing missing-two iron safes had been attempted—the outer door was not bolted, and could be opened with a key.
SAMUEL WYLIE , policeman. On Friday, the 23rd of Feb., at a quarter-past twelve o'clock, I passed the company's premises, and saw a man come out of the gate—I believe it to be the prisoner—I thought he belonged to the works—about half-past three in the morning I was in Green Dragonalley, which is separated from the gas-works by a partition—I found a man in a common water-closet there—I asked what he did there—he said he belonged to the gas-works, and was shut out of his lodgings—I believe the prisoner to be the man—it was a man like him in dress and height.
HARRIET HARRINGTON . I am now a prisoner in Newgate, charged with stealing a waistcoat; I know the prisoner. On Wednesday, the 21st of Feb., I saw him at the bottom of my street—I went and had some half-and-half with him—I said I was going next night to the Pavilion theatre—he said, if I would not go till Saturday, he would pay for me—I agreed—on Saturday morning, between nine and ten o'clock, I saw him with a basket, and asked what was in it—he said what was that to me—he opened his mouth,
and I saw a shilling and five or six sovereigns between his teeth—I saw him again between one and two—he went to his house, then came to my lodgings, took two brown paper parcels out of his pocket, tied up, and said, "Here is plenty more."
REBECCA WILLEMOTTE . I live with my father, who keeps the Bull's Head, High-street, Shadwell. On Saturday afternoon, the 24th of Feb., about two o'clock, the prisoner came to the bar with some females, and had a quarters of gin, which he paid for out of a 5s. paper of halfpence.
JOHN DAVIS , shoemaker, High-street. On the 24th of Feb., between seven and eight o'clock in the evening, the prisoner bought a pair of shoes for 8s., which he paid for in copper; part of it was a 5s. paper.
Prisoner. Q. Were there other tenants besides me? A. Yes.
GODFREY HOLDSWORTH , tallow-chandler, Shadwell. On the 23rd of Feb. I paid into the Ratcliff Gas-office 5l., in 5s. papers of copper—I believe this piece of brown paper was one of them—it is a very awkward piece—I looked at it particularly the day before—there was no particular mark on it.
CIIARLLS POTTER (policeman.) On the 29th of Feb. the prisoner gave a girl into my charge, for stealing four sovereigns from him—he said he had them from his sister, who I knew to be a prostitute of the lowest sort—on the 1st of March I took the prisoner in charge, and told him it was on suspicion of stealing 7l. 10s. in halfpence from the Gas Company—he said he knew nothing about it, that all he had in his possession on Friday and Saturday was 1s., and no halfpence—I am sure he said so.
Prisoner. Did not you ask what coppers I had swaggering about with? I said I had a shilling, and was not swaggering about with any copper-my sister is not a common prostitute. Witness. She is—I have had her locked up several times, and saw her about the streets last week.
Prisoner's Defence. I worked at the factory, and met with an accident, was absent five weeks, and they would not take me back; I was out of work, and told my sister if she would lend me four sovereigns, I would take a licence, and sell beer on the river: she gave me four sovereigns, and I had a few shillings myself. I went out, met two shopmates, and drank with them; it was late when I left them. I picked up with a woman, who robbed me. I can prove I was in bed by half-past ten o'clock, on the night of the robbery. On Saturday I saw two men on Tower-hill—I gave them 10s. in silver for two 5s. papers of copper.
NOT GUILTY .
Before Mr. Baron Gurney.
1058. WILLIAM HENRY BARBER, JOSHUA FLETCHER , and GEORGIANA DOREY , were indicted for feloniously inciting one Susannah Richards, now deceased, to forge a certain administration bond, with intent to defraud the Archbishop of Canterbury.—2nd COUNT, stating their intent to be to defraud the Right Hon. Charles Shaw Lefevre, and others, Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt.—Other COUNTS varying the manner of stating the charge.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL, with MESSRS. CLARKSON, BODKIN, SIR JOHN
BAYLEY, conducted the Prosecution.
Commons—I produce a warrant for taking the act of administration granted to Elizabeth Stewart, the bond that was executed on that occasion, an affidavit annexed to certain certificates of baptism, and a copy of affidavit—the original, according to the regulations of the office, would be at Somerset House.
JOHN ELLIOTT PAISLEY ROBERTSON , D.C.L. I am a surrogate of the Prerogative Court—the parties purporting to be the persons named in these documents, were sworn in my presence—my signature is to this affidavit of Elizabeth Stewart and Thomas Griffin, dated 26th Aug. 1840—this affidavit, dated 31st July, 1840, was sworn before me, purporting to be the affidavit of Elizabeth Stewart—here is the warrant of the amount of property sworn to, which the affidavit of the 31st of July refers to—the warrant is dated the same day—the jurat is signed by me—I administered the oath to the person who swore that affidavit—this warrant is signed by me—it is dated 31st of July.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Are the affidavits explained to the parties in your presence? A. Not in the presence of the surrogate—the parties depose before me that the names subscribed to the affidavit are their names and handwriting, and that they believe the contents to be true—after which I sign the jurat, and immediately after the notary sign, attesting that the affidavit it sworn before me—that is the uniform practice—I do not remember this particular act.
Cross-examined by Mr. WILKINS. Q. Do you remember the person of Elizabeth Stewart? A. I do not, nor of Griffin.
JOHN POWELL . I am a clerk in Doctors' Commons, and am attesting witness to this administration bond—I saw a female, purporting to be Elizabeth Stewart, and the sureties sign—I was not acquainted with their persons—it is dated 31st July, 1840.
Cross-examined by. MR. WILKINS. Q. Have you any recollection as to whether the lady appeared aged or not? A. My impression is, that she was an aged woman.
JOHN BEETHAM . I am a clerk in the Bank of England. I produce the stock ledger of the Bank for the 51l. per cent. Long Annuities—I have an entry of one in the name of John Stewart, of Great Marlow—this is an examined copy of the book—this stock was transferred to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, on the 11th of Oct., 1886,
CHARLES DAWES LEWIS . I am a clerk in the Bank of England. I produce the book in which the unclaimed dividends are entered—here is entered 51l., on the credit tide to John Stewart, of Great Marlow—there is no further description of him in this book—in this other book he is described as John Stewart, of Great Marlow, Bucks, gardener—in 1886, I summed up the dividneds due on that stock for the intermediate ten years, they amounted to 533l. 10s.—there are twenty-one dividend-warrants—that shows no dividends sequence received for ten years and a half, not since April, 1826—in consequance of instructions, I prepared a form of transfer of that stock to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt—the transfers are made by the secretary of the Bank—after I prepared the form of transfer, I Long it to the principal of the office, with the warrants—I was then in the Long Annuity Office—this stock was re-transferred from the commissioners on the 20th, of Oct., 1840, to Elizabeth Stewart, of Southampton-terrace. southampton-street, Camberwell.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. is there any signature in your book of the Elizabeth Stewart to whom it was re-transferred? A. Not in my book.
JOHN KNIGHT . I am secretary to the Bank of England. This transfer of Long Annuities, standing in the name of John Stewart, to the Commissioners for Reduction of the National Debt, is not executed by me, but by William Smee, the accountant-general—I find a transfer in this other book, that is executed by. me.
HENRY HYATT . I keep the Greyhound in at Great Marlow—I went there on the 22nd of July, 1836—in May 1840, I remember the prisoner Fletcher coming to my house to inquire after Mr. Stewart, of Great Marlow, to know if I knew him—as near as 1 can say, it was the beginning of May—he was there between six and seven hours—he said, his business was to find out the relatives of Mr. John Stewart, of Great Marlow, who had died worth a great deal of property—I did not know John Stewart—after some conversation with Fletcher, I recommended him to inquire of some old men who might know Stewart—I named several to him, and went with him to inquire of those men—he said, he came from the Lord Chancellor, from Government—he gave me his name, before he left, as Mr. G. Jones, 24, Little Guilford-street, Russell-square—I took him to an old man, named Windsor, who, I thought, might know Stewart, and a man named Holmes, also to Loosely, and M'Lean, and I took him to Holmes's wife, down at Court Garden, where Stewart used to live, as I was informed—I did not know any thing of Stewart before I went there—I heard what the people told Fletcher—we could not bear of any relation of Stewart—they told him there never was any relation of Stewart's, except a brother that went to sea many years before, and was supposed to have gone to America—Fletcher took a careful memorandum—he seemed to be writing down—we went to a grave-stone in the church-yard, and he took notes of what he thought proper—we found a grave-stone of Stewart—when Fletcher went away, he requested me to get all the information I could, respecting any relation of Stewart's, and send him word, and I should be well rewarded for it, and gave me his address—as Windsor could read and write, I asked, whether it would not be better for Fletcher to correspond with Windsor, as it would encourage him to find out those who knew Stewart better than I could—in about a fortnight or three weeks after this, the prisoner Barber came down—he staid about six hours with me—he went into my commercial-room—some of my people told me a gentleman wanted me—I went in, and he said, "Is your name Hyatt?"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "Did you have a gentleman here, sometime ago, of the name of Jones?"—I said, "Yes, there was"—he said that he came from Mr. Jones, and Mr. Jones and him were all one party; that he had come to inquire after the relations of Stewart, who had died worth a great deal of property, and all they wanted was to find out the real owner for it—he gave me his name, before he left, as Clarence Peckham., Esq., Nelson-square—he said, there was a great deal of the property at Chelsea, and so had Mr. Jones said before—something was said about property in the Sinking Fund, but that was gone, and so had Jones said before—there was something mentioned about 600l.—that the property in the Sinking Fund died with him, but I think I heard that from Jones previously, in conversation with the old men—Barber said that to me as well as Jones—I took him round to the old people—they said there was a brother of Stewart's many years ago—they bad some account from Stewart that his brother was gone to sea, it was supposed to America—M'Lean, the last man we went to, agreed to meet Barber at my house—he came up, and had a glass of grog—Barber was in the front room—M'Lean came to the bar—Barber came out to him, and talked to him—I was in and out, and did not hear all the conversation—I asked Mr. Barber where this property was at
Chelsea, as I had some friends there—he laid it was near the College—I said, "Do you know a gentleman named Eagle ton, surveyor of King's taxes, there?"—he said, "No"—I then asked if he knew Eagleton, who kept the Roebuck—he said he did not, nor did he know any such place—I did not press the inquiry—after he bad seen M'Lean, he said he would not trouble me further, he would go and see the old men himself, and he went out—I laid I was going to London in a week or so, and Mr. Barber asked me to come and dine with him, and get him all the information I could—I said I would endeavour to get all I could, and tell him when I came up; and when I came, I went to No. 52, Kelson-square—a woman answered the door—I asked if Clarence Peckham, Esq., was in—she asked my name—I told her Hyatt—she went away, then returned—I went into the passage, and Mr. Barber came—I did not dine with him—it was between nine and ten o'clock—I went for the sake of my word, as 1 promised—I told him I could not hear of any of Stewart's relations, except the brother before mentioned.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. This it nearly four years since? A. Yes—I can tell a great deal of the conversation, but what I did tell is true—there was a great deal I cannot think of—there were several old people, whom the person giving his name as Jones spoke to—I went with him to those people who knew about Stewart, and several of them I asked, whom Windsor recommended, who might know Stewart.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS Q. When you went to Nelson-square, did you notice whether there was a brass plate on the door? A. Not particularly—I cannot say whether there was or not—I never knew Barber come to my house except on that day—this bill (looking at it) is my writing, I believe—I do not know whether there was a bill made for the refreshment Mr. Barber had at my house—there was not much had—I think he had some wine or negus, 1 cannot say which—he had refreshment—I do not recollect what it was—he gave M'Lean some grog—the second item in this bill is three sixpennny-worths of gin and water—I do not recollect whether Mr. Barber had tea—he wanted to go away as soon as he could—I think he went about five o'clock, 1 cannot say exactly—he was in a hurry to get away, and had my horse and chaise to go to the railway, for which he no doubt paid me—my charge, I dare say, would be about 5s.—Mr. Barber was only once at my house, to my knowledge—the bill produced is my writing, but it was not made out to Mr. Barber.
Q. Now, do you mean still to adhere to your. statement, that it was within a fortnight or three weeks afterwards that Mr. Barber came down? A. Yes, I do—(looking at the bill)—I will swear it—was not in Oct that he came down and talked to these old people—I do not think it was more than a fortnight after Fletcher came—it was not more than three weeks, as near as I can tell—I have given the names of all the parties he spoke to—inquiry about this was first made of me on the 14th of Jan.—Mr. Barber first asked if my name was not Hyatt—I said yes—he asked if a gentleman named Jones had not been there—I cannot be mistaken about that.
Q. Did not he ask if a gentleman had been down there about Stewart, and did not you say, "Oh yes, Mr. Jones, a tall, dark gentleman?" A. No, I did not—Mr. Barber did not say, "Ah it is all the same"—he said he came from Mr. Jones, and Mr. Jones and him were all one, one firm, and I expected that was the firm of lawyers.
COURT. Q. Are you sure he mentioned the word firm? Yes, and I took them to be Chancery lawyers under Government.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Do you mean to tell these twelve gentlemen, on your solemn oath, you cannot be mistaken as to a conversation four years ago, when your attention was not called to it till Jan.? A. I am not—I noticed
it particularly, became it was a sort of excitement to me, a gentleman, as I thought, coming to me—I have repeated the conversation over and over again, and have made a great deal of inquiry, and that will justify what I have said is correct—there is no mistake about it—Barber said he came from Mr. Jones, that Mr. Jones and him were all one firm—I have not given two or three different versions of this—he said Mr. Jones and he were equally as one firm—he spoke as if they came from one place and one firm, and that is what he said.
Q. Did he say he and Mr. Jones were equally as one? A. No, that I swear—he said one firm—the inquiries were the same—they were all on one business, and he said he came from Jones—I had not been at Nelson-square a minute or two, before I saw Barber—I am quite sure he said Clarence Peckham, Esq., and I asked for Clarence Peckham, Esq., not for Mr. Peckham.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. Did you make any memorandum in your book about Clarence Peckham, Esq.? A. Yea—I have the memorandum here which I made at the time Mr. Barber was at Great Marlow—I wrote it from what he said—I made it that day—(read)—"Clarence Peckham, Esq., 52, Nelson-square"—my House is about six miles and a half from Maidenhead station—I keep a horse and chaise, which I let out, and sometimes let it to people to get to the station—the bill produced does not relate to Mr. Barber's visit, when I made the memorandum in my book—it is a date when I never saw Mr. Barber—I am quite sure—I told Mr. Barber I was coming to London shortly.
WILLIAM WINDSOR . I live at Great Marlow, and am a labourer—I do anything I can get to do. I remember receiving a letter from a person of the name of Jones—(looking at a letter)—for anything I know, this is the letter—I was living in West-street, Great Marlow, at that time, and was a baker—I dare say this is the same letter—Mr. Hyatt had it from me.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Look at Mr. Fletcher, did you ever see him before? A. Not that I know of—it is a good while ago—I have no recollection of having seen either of these gentlemen—I saw two gentlemen—one came some time after the other—I do not know how long—one gentleman came to me first—some time after that I had a letter—it was some time after I had the letter that I saw the second gentleman—I do not know how long.
COURT. Q. Was it after you had the letter that the second gentleman came, or before? A. Well, I cannot say about that, whether it was before or after.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Try to refresh your memory, was it not some time after you had that letter, before the second gentleman came? I think it was before—I cannot recollect—I do not know what makes me say so—I cannot tell which way it was—I had not the letter many days before I took it to Hyatt.
MR. GRATTAN. I am acquainted with Fletcher's handwriting, from his having kept an account at the London and Westminster Bank where I am a clerk—I should decidedly say this letter is his handwriting.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. I believe you always considered him a man of the first respectability? A. We always considered him a respectable man—he banked with us three or four years, and kept his account in a very gentlemanly way—(letter read)—"To Mr. William Windsor, West-street, Great Marlow, Bucks; 24, Little Guilford-street, Russell-square, London, June 25, 1840.—Sir, When I was at Great Marlow, about a month since, inquiring after the relations of Mr. John Stewart, who was gardener to Mr. Strode, of Court-garden, you had the kindness to promise me, that if I wanted any further information respecting Mr. Stewart
you would obtain it for me; from this circumstance I now take the liberty to write to you upon the subject, with the understanding, as I before promised, that you should be paid for all or any trouble you might take in the matter; I should therefore be much obliged if you could make out the name of the gentleman that Mr. Stewart lived with before he came to lire with Mr. Strode, and the place where; and also, if possible, what part of Scotland Mr. Stewart came from. This I was told, if I recollect rightly, might be obtained from a fellow-servant of his, who is a Scotchman, and now living at Marlow; and every information you may have obtained respecting him since I was there, I shall be glad to learn. I have been able to learn that Mr. Stewart had a sister living about twelve years since, in America. If you will take an early opportunity of making the above-mentioned inquiry, and will let me know in the course of a few days, you will much oblige, Sir, your obedient servant, G. JOMES. N.B. Be so good as to address your letter to me thus—Mr. Jones, at Miss Hawkes's, No. 24, Little Guilford-street, Russell-square, London."
MR. WILKINS. Q. Whose handwriting is that—(producing a letter)—A. That is something like Fletcher's—I am not able to say it is his, but it is something like his writing—I have a doubt about it.
WILLIAM HOLMES . I am a labouring man, and live at Great Marlow. I have lived there fifty years, or more—I know Henry Hyatt, who keeps the Greyhound—I recollect Hyatt bringing a person to me about four years ago, to make inquiries after a person named Stewart—he only brought one at that time—he came twice, with a different person each time—I should not know the first person he brought—perhaps 1 might have some knowledge of the second one if 1 were to see him—to the best of my knowledge it was Mr. Barber—he asked about Stewart's money—I told him it was in the sinking fund, and I thought it was very little use looking after it—I do not think he said anything about Stewart's relations, but I told him I thought he had no relation.
Cross-examined MR. WILKINS. Q. The first one came somewhere about in the spring, did he not? A. I cannot tell what time it was—I cannot tell how long the first came before the other—I did not take any account of it—I cannot tell whether it was a little or a long time—whether it was one month or five.
COURT. Q. Did anything pass between you about what countryman Stewart was—A. No, I do not remember.
JAMES M'LEAN . I live at Great Marlow, and have done so some years. In 1840, I remember some persons coming down to make inquiries about John Stewart—I only recollect one coming at a time—one person came along with Henry' Hyatt—I had very little conversation with him—about a fortnight or three weeks after, I saw another person—I had very little conversation with that person—Hyatt also brought him—I should not know either of those persons again—I knew John Stewart in his lifetime, while he was in Mr. Strode's service—I never heard him speak of where he came from, or whether he had relations, or not—I told the first person who came down that I knew Stewart, but no relations belonging to him whatever, and I never knew or heard of any—nothing passed about what countryman he was—Stewart was a very close man, and I knew nothing at all about him further than knowing the man himself, and therefore I bad very little to talk about him—on the second occasion I said the same thing.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. When the first man came to you, was it not in the spring? A. it very likely may be in the spring, but I cannot positively say—I know it was in fine weather—I cannot swear that I saw the other person for some months after—I was so indifferent about
Stewart that I did not interest myself at all in it—I do not think it so long as months before I saw the second person, but I could not was swear it.
ROBERT LOOSELY . I live at Great Marlow, Buckinghamshire, and have done so some years—I remember John Stewart very well, who lived with Mr. Strode—in 1840, I remember a gentleman coming down, to make some inquiry about him—Mr. Hyatt brought him to me—I should not know the gentleman again—he asked me several questions about Stewart's family affairs—I was frequently in the habit of conversing with Stewart in his life-time, but not upon family affairs—he has told me what countryman he was—I told the gentleman who came down that Stewart had said he came from Scotland—I never heard Stewart say a word about any relations—I had heard say that he had a brother, and told the gentleman that, but no further. I remember another gentleman coming down a fortnight or three weeks after, or thereabouts—Mr. Hyatt brought him to me—it was a different person to the first—I should not know him again—he asked me the same questions about Stewart's affairs, and so, on about his relations—I told him 1 had heard say he had a brother, but he never told me so—I told the second gentleman that he came from Scotland.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Stewart was rather a close person, was he not? A. Very close, he had not much conversation—he never used to talk about his family, or about his birth—I know nothing about his being a native of Scotland, no more than what I heard him say—it is sixteen or seventeen years since I had the conversation with him, and three or four since I saw these two gentlemen—I cannot recollect particularly the conversation I had with either of them—I will not swear that I said a word about Stewart's country, it is so long ago.
COURT. Q. What is it that you won't swear? A. About his saying anything about his family, or family affairs—I am sure I told the gentlemen, that Stewart had told me he came from Scotland.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. What is your age A. Seventy—my memory is not so good as it was—I have seen Mr. Weir, Mr. Freshfield's clerk, three or four times, about this business—he has talked to me about this business—he said to me, "Do not you remember a gentleman coming down to Great Marlow, to inquire about one Stewart?" and he then said, "And, in about three weeks afterwards, don't you remember another gentleman came down?"—I do not think it was more than three weeks—I would not swear it—it was about spring when the first gentleman came—I do not recollect whether it was in autumn when the other gentleman came, it is so long ago—I will net swear it was not in the autumn.
SARAH HAWKES . I am in the service of Mr. Lodge, of No. 5, Tavistock-street, Bedford-square. In 1837, I lodged at 35, Berwick-street, Soho, with a person named Mrs. Richards—Mrs. Dorey, the prisoner, was there with her—she was not married at that time—her name was then Georgian Richards—I lived in the same apartment with Mrs. Richards, and Mrs. Dorey who was her daughter, as near as I can correctly state, for a year and a half—I saw Mr. Saunders come there once, and Mrs. Saunters once—she was Mrs. Richards's daughter, and the sister of Georgiana—I afterwards went to reside at 16, Little Guilford-street, Russell-square—I cannot state the date—I afterwards went to 24, Little Guilford-street—I was in the embroidery line at that time—Mrs. Dorey, who was then Georgiana Richards called on me at 24, Little Guilford-street—I cannot say when—I cannot tell what year it was in—I think she told me she was then living at Mr. Wybrow's a music-seller's in Rathbone-place, and that it was called the Temple of Apollo—she said, "I have called upon you to ask a favour"—I asked her
what it was—she said, "It is to know whether you will allow me to have some letters left at your address, under the name of Mr. Jones?"—I said, Yes"—she said, "Don't yon remember hearing me and my mother speak of some property that was coming to us?"—she said, Mr. Jones was the lawyer—about a fortnight or three weeks after, a letter came to me in that name—I took it the next morning to Mr. Wybrow's, at the Temple of Apollo, and left it in the shop—I think I saw Mr. Wybrow behind the counter—I told him to give it to Miss Richards—I received another note after that—I cannot tell whether it was a week or a few days after—it was roughly folded up, and had the same address—I took that also to Mr. Wybrow's—I saw no more of Miss Richards, after that, for a year and a half, or two years, that I recollect—I did not then learn from her, whether or not she had had these notes.
Cross-examined by MR. JAMES. Q. How long had you known Miss Richards? A. I never knew her till I went to reside with her—I cannot say when that was—I think it was in Jan., as King William IV. died the following Jane—she then held a counter at the Pantheon-basaar, in Oxford-street—I understood she supported, or contributed to support her mother—her mother was living with her at Mr. Wybrow's—what she asked me was, if I would take the letters in, and take them to Mr. Wybrow's—I never saw her open or see any letter—her mother had formerly told me, that she had lost a deal of property abroad, for her husband had died at Lisbon—that had been the subject of conversation—she appeared to be a person who had moved in a respectable sphere of life—she told me that her husband was a Lisbon merchant—I do not know whether that is so or not.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Do you remember ever seeing Miss Richards in mourning? A. Yes, in deep mourning, when I met, her, after the time of the letters, which was two years, as near as I can think—she said, "I have lost my poor mother."
MR. JAMES. Q. Was not the mother dead at that time? A. She was—I did not know it myself—I never saw the mother after that—I now know that she is dead.
COURT. Q. How long had you seen her before she came to ask to have the letters left? A. I cannot remember.
EMMA HARTWELL . I am the wife of John Hartwell, and live at No. 2, Mead's-row, Westminster-road. In 1840 I lived as servant to Mr. Bradley, a grocer, at No. 1, Southampton-terrace, Camberwell—I do not remember exactly at what time I went into Mr. Bradley's service—I cannot say the month—Mr. Fletcher came there in the beginning of the spring of 1840, to look at some apartments—I saw him, and spoke to him—he said the apartments would do for the lady that he was taking them for—I showed him the rooms—there were two rooms on the first floor and two on the second, two sitting-rooms and two bed-rooms—Mr. Fletcher afterwards came again with an old lady and Mrs. Fletcher—I believe they walked—they staid there for an hour or so—I cannot say whether they took tea or not—the old lady remained, and occupied the apartments—she staid there three or four months—she appeared to be between sixty and seventy years of age, I think—she appeared very old and feeble—she was not, to say, short; rather tall, and thin, and pale—she had very weak eyes—she had the gout in her arm occasionally—she complained of her arm and hand sometimes—she did not go out a great deal—she generally took an umbrella with her, which she used as a walking-stick—she generally wore a half-mourning cross-barred gown—I occasionally saw her in it a black silk dress—she wore a dark shawl, with a great deal of mixture in of all colours—while she was there Mr. Fletcher called sometimes twice a day, sometimes three times a day, and occasionally not so often—sometimes he
came between four and five o'clock in the afternoon, or later, and sometimes between ten and eleven in the morning—I did not know where Fletcher lived exactly—he lived near, not further from town—Mrs. Fletcher sometimes came—I very seldom saw her—I think I have seen Miss Fletcher there once or twice perhaps—I only heard the old lady's name by letters, to my recollection—letters came to her addressed to Miss Stewart—I did not hear any of the Fletchers ask for her by name—when they came they said, "Is the old lady at home?"—I never heard Mr. Fletcher mention her name—I have not seen her open the letters that came—I do not know what she has done with them—I have received them at the door, and taken them to her, and saw no more of them—she received them—she did not give them back to me, or say they were not for her—I have seen Mrs. Dorey there—she came to visit the old lady occasionally—they sometimes went out together—I do not know where they went to—(looking at a gown produced by Forrester)—this is the pattern of the gown I saw the old lady wear, but the colour is washed out very much to what it was—I am quite certain about the pattern—it is calico—this was black, and this was white—I saw it at the Mansion-house—it was brought to me before that—Mr. Fletcher occasionally took tea with the old lady—I think Mrs. Fletcher came once—Mrs. Dorey was generally accompanied by Mr. Fletcher when she came—I did not know her before—I did not know whether she was any relation or connexion of the old lady's—I never knew the old lady visit anywhere in the neighbourhood, except at Mr. Fletcher's—I know of nobody in the neighbourhood coming to see her—she made no acquaintances in the neighbourhood while she staid there—no one came near her, except the persons I have mentioned—I believe she went to town two or three times while she was living there—she has been absent some hours—I cannot fix the date at which she went away finally—she generally paid for her lodging herself, I believe—she paid by the week—I did for her while she was there.
WILLIAM WYBROW . I keep a music-shop in Rathbone-place—the Temple of Apollo was my old house—that is also in Rathbone-place. I knew the female prisoner as Miss Richards—I became acquainted with her, to the belt of my belief, in November, 1838, but I am not sure—she called to see some lodgings at my house—one of my daughters had given her some lessons on the guitar, and I had some knowledge of her before she took the lodgings—at that time she kept a counter at the Oxford-street Bazaar—she took possession of the apartments a few days after taking them—her mother and two nieces, the Misses Saunders, came with her—they continued to lodge there from that time to the summer of 1840—I should say Mrs. Richards appeared to be about seventy-five years of age—she was rather tall and thin, very infirm, and rather pale—her eyes were rather blood-shot and weak—she walked rather feebly—I never saw her without an umbrella, which she used as a kind of support, as a walking-stick—she wore a dark bonnet, and a very dark cloak—I cannot say whether it was an invisible green or a black very much faded—I cannot say what sort of gown she had—in 1840 the old lady left my apartments—I cannot say the time—it was in the summer—Miss Richards and the nieces continued with me—I am not quite sure whether both nieces did, but I think the younger one did—Miss Richards continued to attend at the bazaar, as far as I knew—she said her mother was in very sad health, and was going to Camberwell for the benefit of her health—I have heard her say once or twice, or frequently, that she was going to see her mother at Camberwell; and likewise Georgina Saunders, the younger niece, said she was going to see the old lady—I cannot say whether she had taken lodgings or a house at Camberwell, or who took them for her—I cannot say how long she was away from my lodging—I am not quite sure whether she returned—I rather think she did, but I cannot positively say—Miss Richards
and the Misses Saunders afterwards left—I cannot say how long after the oldlady had gone to Camberwell—it was in the course of the same year—Miss Richards left in November, to the best of my belief, but I cannot say whether the old lady left and went with them—I think she did, but I am not positive—I am not sure whether she returned at all, but I think she did—I did not know from Miss Richards where she was going to when the left—while they were lodging with me I knew of letters coming from Bristol—I cannot say that I know a person named Hawkes—I do not remember receiving any letters brought to my house while they were lodging with me.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Who attends in your shop generally? A. Myself—I did so while at the Temple of Apollo—there was a private door to that house—if the bell rung, the party occupying the apartments would answer it—I had not a servant—I did not attend the door myself—we only let the second floor, and if anybody rung their bell, of course the party who occupied the second floor would answer it; in case they did not, perhaps one of my daughters would—I did not see the persons who generally visited Miss Richards and her mother—I have known several persons come there, but I cannot say I have seen Barber there—I saw a man named Griffin at the Mansion-house—my son did not point out a man to me that had been in the habit of coming to the house—I have never said so—he said he thought he knew one of the parties—he did not point Griffin out as a party that had come to my house—I have no recollection of his saying so—I said I thought I had seen Griffin come there, but I would not be positive—when I was down stairs at the Mansion-house, I do not recollect my son pointing out Griffin as the man that came there—if my son had been present, he would have seen the whole of the parties, but I was not in the Court when he was examined.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Your recollection is very imperfect as to the time the parties were in your house? A. Yes—I positively swear Mrs. Richards was in the house in the year 1840—Miss Richards left my house some time after she left the bazaar—I will swear she was in my house during 1840 some time—I know it was in the summer, and, I think, rather towards the latter part—I can say the old lady was lodging in my house some part of the summer, and, I think, the latter part of 1840—I am quite sure Mrs. Richards did not remain there till the latter end of the summer—I cannot tell the precise time she left, but I know she left to go to Camberwell—I am not quite certain about the time the old lady left—Miss Richards left after she left the bazaar, which was somewhere about Nov., to the best of my belief.
Cross-examined by MR. JAMES. Q. You say she was called "the old lady" there? A. Yes—I understood she was the mother of Miss Richards.
SIDNEY HAMPDEN WYBROW . I am a clerk in the Post-office, and the son of the last witness. In 1838 and 39 I resided at 24, Rathbone-place, with my father, at the Temple of Apollo—I know Georgiana Dorey—I knew her as Georgiana Richards—I recollect her lodging at ray father's house—I am not certain as to the date—it was in 1838, to the best of my recollection—there were two nieces lodged in the house, and also her mother, Mrs. Richards—I do not know her Christian name—I knew one of the nieces—the youngest was called Georgie—they were there about a year and nine months, or two years, I think, altogether—I think they left in 1840—I am not at all positive as to dates—I have seen the old lady on several occasions—she was a very old woman, and very infirm—she was subject to a violent cough, and very seldom went out—when she did she stooped a great deal, and coughed also, and generally carried an umbrella with her—she usually wore a dark gown, I think, and an old cloak—when she did go out she used an umbrella
to assist her in walking—I remember her leaving, but I do not know the date at all—she left without her daughter first, to go to Camberwell, I think, about three or four months previous to their leaving altogether—they left finally in 1840—I cannot say what part of the year it was—I have not the slightest recollection as to dates—when the old lady left, leaving her daughter there, I understood she went to Camberwell—I think I knew from one of the nieces that she went there for the benefit of her health—I never heard Georgiana Richards say where her mother was gone to—I am not quite positive that the old lady returned again—there were not very many persons visited her when she lived at our house—I appear to have a recollection of Mr. Barber having called there on several occasions—I have seen people call—I believe I have let Mr. Barber in once or twice—I might have stood at the door, and, rather than give them the trouble of coming down from the second floor, I perhaps might let people in, or ask them to walk through the shop—when I have let in persons, Miss Richards has been asked for.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. How long have you been a clerk in the Post-office? A. Very nearly four years—before that I studied music—I never made a practice of it—I think my age is twenty-two or twentythree—I remember, when I was at the Mansion-house, standing at the bottom of the stairs to see the different prisoners go by—I did not point out Griffin to my father; I pointed out no one to him—he asked me whether I remembered any of them—I said I remembered one of them; but three of them went up, and I do not think he understood which, but I think he believed I meant Griffin—my father did not mention Griffin's name to me—when we got into the Court they asked me whether I knew either of the prisoners, and I pointed to Barber, not knowing either of their names; and the only reason I have for saying I believe my father thought it was Griffin is, that when we came out he said, "I thought it was Griffin you pointed out"—I may have told my father it was the tallest of the three, I cannot say—I will not swear that Barber was ever at the Temple of Apollo—to the best of my belief he has been there on several occasions.
KEZIAH DIXON . My husband's name is Seth Dixon—we live in Crown-court, Dean-street—on the 10th of April, 1841, (I think this day three yean) I was engaged by a Mrs. Ellicot as char-woman at No. 24, Dean-street—I have acted in that capacity in that house until now—when I first went there Mrs. Dorey, and her mother, Mrs. Richards, were living there—I remember a niece of Mrs. Dorey being there—I cannot exactly say what her name was—her surname was Saunders—I learnt from Mrs. Dorey that they only came the month before I went—I remember the old lady asking me to act as char-woman to her also, and I did so—I remember the death of the old lady—I think it was the latter end of June in the same year—she died in that house—Mrs. Dorey left last Christmas twelve months—I did not assist the family in their apartments very often before the death of the old lady, only now and then for an hour or so—after Mrs. Richards's death I assisted Mrs. Dorey occasionally; sometimes more frequently—after the death of the old lady Mrs. Dorey left to go out of town—I understood from her that she was going to Bristol—she did that I think two or three times after her mother's death—I think three times—she staid away sometimes a month or six weeks—I have not known her go any where else, only sometimes on a visit to Camberwell—she told me she visited a physician of the name of Fletcher there—I have seen the prisoner Fletcher before—I answered the door to him once at No. 24, Dean-street—I know William Saunders and his wife—Mr. Saunders was in the habit of coming to the house occasionally, and Mrs. Saunders was on a visit once for about three weeks or a month—I understood
she was Mrs. Dorey's sister—I saw Mr. Saunders there while the old lady lay dead in the house—I recollect once opening the door to Fletcher at that house I cannot positively say I had seen him there more than at that time—I might have seen him, but 1 cannot exactly say—he asked for Miss Richards—she was not at home, and he left a message with me, for her and her niece to come and dine with him next day, on the Sunday—I should think the old lady was about seventy-three or seventy-four years of age—she was rather infirm—I did not notice any thing particular about her—she was subject to the gout—I have heard Miss Dorey talk of it with her, and the old lady as well—I think the gout was in her hand—I never saw the old lady dress in any thing but black—I think I saw her once in a cotton dress—after the old lady's death Mrs. Dorey gave me a gown of her mother's—the gown produced is what remains of it—I afterwards gave it to Forrester the officer.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. When were you first applied to to give evidence? A. I think it was in March last—I do not recollect the day, but I think it was at the beginning of March—I have never been before the Lord Mayor.
Cross-examined by MR. JAMES. Q. Did you know that the Saunders's, Mrs. Dorey's relations, lived at Bristol? A. Yes.
DUNCAN M'PHERSON . I am a school-master at Callander, in Scotland—in the year 1840 I was the session-clerk of the parish of Callander—I remember receiving a letter, purporting to come from a person of the name of Stewart—I think I received three letters, but I only retained one of them—I think I must have destroyed them, because I was not in the habit of keeping letters of that sort—I have looked for then, but cannot find them—I found this one.
MR. GRATTAN re-examined. I have a doubt that this letter it Joshua Fletcher's hand-writing—I cannot say positively whether it is or is not—it is something like his writing—let me see it again—I should act upon that letter at a rapid glance in business as Fletcher's writing—I believe it to be his hand-writing.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Have you not a great deal of doubt about it? A. When I look into it closely, I see there is some disguise about it, but if it was brought to me in business, with a rapid glance I should act upon it—it depends on circumstances whether or not I should refuse to act upon it—looking into it minutely I should say it was Fletcher's writing; and as persons do not always write alike I should act upon it at his writing—I have frequently seen him write.
(Letter read, directed— Mr. Duncan M'Pherson, session clerk, Callander, Perthshire, Scotland—No. 1, Southampton-terrace, Southampton-street, Camber well, Surrey,—London, Oct. 9, 1840. Sir,—On Saturday last, Nov. 3, I wrote to you to have the goodness to send me the certificate of marriage of Robert and Jane Stewart, which took place in your parish in or about the year 1756, inclosing a post-office order for 2l. for the same. As I have not heard from you, I am anxious to learn whether my letter and its contents have reached you: you will therefore much oblige by giving me an answer by return of post. E. STEWART.")
MR. GREAVES. Q. What did you do with the other letters? A. Very frequently when I receive letters of this sort, when they accumulate, I look through them perhaps once a year, and destroy those I think of no use, and this was reserved by accident—I cannot recollect what I did with the other two—I think I must have destroyed them with some other papers of the same sort—I think I put them on the fire—I think I must have burnt them—I
was in my own house when I received them—I think I may have received the first perhaps about a fortnight before I received this—I think my attention was called to the fact of having received these letters about Jan. last—I then searched throughout my papers—I kept them in drawers—I searched every drawer—I do not know that I searched every corner of the house, but I searched those places where I usually deposit the Sessional papers—I am not aware that I have a place in which I keep papers which I have not searched—I will not swear I have not.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. Have yon searched every place where papers of that sort are likely to be? A. I have—where the papers belonging to the Session are kept, I searched thoroughly—there may be places which I have not searched, where I keep letters of correspondence—I do not place them in the same place—I have searched all places where I kept the papers of the Kirk Sessions—this letter is my handwriting—I wrote it at the time it bears date—it is my answer to the second letter I received.
JOSEPH PARKES . I am solicitor to the registrar-general of births, marriages, and deaths. I had occasion to make some inquiry with respect to irregularities in the entries of registers in my department, and in consequence of that I heard of the circumstances of this case—I went to Mr. Barber's offices, in Bridge-street, Blackfriars, accompanied by his partner, Mr. Bircham—I think it was on the evening of the third examination at the Mansion-house, in the beginning or middle of Jan.—this letter was found there in my presence, and delivered to me—it was found in one of the upper offices—I think in a tin box, tied up with the parchment letters of administration, of Stewart, and five other papers—these now produced are them—this parchment is the letters of administration to Elizabeth Stewart—this is Mrs. Stewart's statement—a letter directed to Mrs. Stewart, by Mr. Pott, of Doctor's Commons, dated 13th Aug., 1840—Mr. Potts's bill of costs in the matter of the administration of John Stewart, and two memorandums in blue ink—they all tied up together, and were delivered by me to Mr. Charles Freshfield.
(Letter read—addressed, "Mrs. Stewart, No. 1, Southampton-terrace, Southampton-street, Camberwell, Surrey, near London," post mark, 9th Oct., 1840, dated 7th Oct., 1840, Callander—Mrs. Stewart, Madam, I yesterday received your letter, with enclosure, and now give the prefixed certificate of Robert Stewart and Janet Stewart's marriage. Were it in any way consistent with the duties of my office, I would comply with your desire, but were the records to be overhauled, and I found guilty of having given a false extract, according to the laws of this country I might be severely punished, if not denuded of my office; if they are the right parties, as I trust they are, I trust you may be able to adduce corroborative evidence, notwithstanding the slight difference of the female's name. DUNCAN M'PHERSON.")
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did you find all these papers bound up together? A. Yes, I think in a tin box in the upper office—the box was opened—I did not observe that it was locked—some miscellaneous papers were found at the same time, either in the box or about the office, in different places.
DUNCAN M'PHERSON re-examined. Q. Tell, as far as you can recollect, what was the desire contained in the letter to which that was a reply? A. The desire was, that I might probably change the name Janet into Jane; and the reason assigned was, that Janet was Jane in England, that the name Janet was not used in England, but Jane for Janet—on receiving the first letter I wrote that I had found an entry of the marriage of Robert Stewart and Janet Stewart—I did not send the extract—I only gave this information, that 1 had found this entry—then came a letter, desiring me to send it, but that
I might perhaps make this alteration—I cannot charge my memory with the very words, but it was to that effect, and to that I sent this answer—Callander is fifty-one miles from Edinburgh—the name of Stewart is very common in Callander—the Earl of Moray is the heritor—then are a great number of that name in our parish—there are about a dozen families in one district, all of the name of Stewart.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. What date is the marriage certificate which you sent in the letter? A. January, 1766—I have a perfect recollection of the purport of the letter which is lost—I do not say I could repeat every word, but I can say that I was desired to alter the name, and that I refused to do it I made that seen by my answer.
COURT. Q. I presume in your situation as clerk, you have application to you for copies of registers? A. Very frequently—I never, on any other occasion, received a remittance of 2l. for one.
EDMUND KEENE . I am clerk to Mr. Potts, a proctor, and have been so eleven years. In 1840, the prisoner Fletcher came to our office—I think it was in July or August—he was accompanied by an old lady—he said he wished to give instructions for letters of administration to the effects of John Stewart—I had never seen him before—I asked who he was recommended by—he said that he had known Mr. Potts, or something to that effect, I do not remember exactly the answer—I do not think he told me his name at that time—he told me that the elderly lady was the sister of the deceased—he gave me instructions to prepare the necessary documents—there if a form of affidavit kept printed, called the Stamp-office form of affidavit, which is necessary to be deposed to, before letters are granted, and in which there are blanks for the name of the person deceased—I made inquiries of him to fill up the blanks in that form of affidavit—this is one of the forms in blank—I took one for the purpose of receiving the instructions—this was done in the presence of the elderly female—she did not say anything, or take any part in the matter, that I remember—she heard what was passing, she sat in the room—I proceeded to prepare the usual warrant, in which the relationship of the proposed administratrix would appear—one of the necessary pieces of information is the situation of the party deceased, whether bachelor or married—Fletcher told me what the deceased was—it must have been stated to me at the time—this is the affidavit which I filled up from Fletcher's instructions.
MR. GREAVES. Q. When did you next see Fletcher? A. Some day or two afterwards, if I recollect right—however, in the course of the proceedings to obtain the administration, I saw him several times, certainly three times—the next time I saw him after this business was in 1841—I was at the Mansion House, but was not examined—I do not know why.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Mr. Potts, your employer, was examined? A. Yes—I do not know whether Dr. Robertson was—(The affidavit sworn before Dr. Robertson was dated 21st July, and stated that Elizabeth Stewart, of No. 1, Southampton-terrace, appeared personally, as the party applying for the letters of administration, that the deceased died on or about 13th March, 1827, and that his property was under 1500l.)—it is always necessary, in cases of this sort, that a bond should be given, before granting letters of administration—I explained that to Mr. Fletcher, and that sureties would be required, and he gave me the name of Thomas Griffin, I think—I have no document to which I can refer, to refresh my memory—it was suggested to Fletcher that there must be an affidavit to account for the delay—it is always the case when there is a certain lapse of time in taking out letters of administration—such an affidavit was prepared by me on the same occasion—this is it—(This was dated 31st July, 1840, and stated, that the deponent, Elizabeth Stewart, was the lawful sister, and only next of kin of John Stewart, late of Great Marlow, Bucks, gar denert
who died intestate, a batchelor, on 13th March, 1827; that the deponent was residing in New York, at the time of his death, and was not aware of it till May last, when she returned to this country, which was the reason why letters of administration had not been before applied for)—the facts which I put into this affidavit were furnished me by Mr. Fletcher—I then spoke about a bond, and he gave me the name of one of the sureties, Thomas Griffin, at least the name was given me, I do not remember whether it might be from him or the woman—it was at the same meeting—I told them two were necessary, and Fletcher asked me, as he had not another surety, whether I could procure him one—he should be very willing to pay for his attendance and trouble—when I found there was apparently no risk, I told him I was willing to procure him a party who would sign the name, who would become co-surety with the sister of the deceased and Griffin—I then proceeded to calculate the duty, it was 45l.—Fletcher handed me the money—I then prepared the bond—this is it—I wrote that in the public-office—I afterwards prepared this other affidavit—the first one was objected to as insufficient—I prepared that from instructions I received, a portion of it from Mr. Fletcher, and afterwards from Mr. Barber—after preparing the first affidavit I communicated with Mr. Pott—I should say I did not introduce the names of the sureties to Mr. Pott before I went in to the surrogate, it is not the custom to do to—I think I accompanied Mr. Pott and the administratrix, (the elderly person and Fletcher,) to the surrogate—if I did I saw the parties sworn—I afterwards accompanied the elderly lady and Fletcher to the Prerogative-office—I there filled up the bond—John Gregory is the name of the other surety I agreed to furnish—he is my brother-in-law—the elderly lady then signed the bond at the office—Griffin was not there then—no particular appointment was made for Griffin's attendance—they were to send him—I kept the affidavit and the other papers in my possession—I paid the duty on the 3rd of August, to Mr. Powell, the clerk of the seat—it is not customary to pay until the bond is completed—I should say that the bond was certainly completely executed before I paid the money—it is useless to pay the money, until the papers are completed—I keep it in my possession till the bond is complete—I remember bringing my brother-in-law down to execute the bond—I saw him execute it—after that, and after paying the duty, I lodged the documents with the clerk of the seat—I was afterwards sent for by him—from my objecting to the affidavit, I believe it was referred to the registrar—I saw the registrar on the subject—he declined to receive it—upon which a letter was written to the administratrix, whether by me or Mr. Potts I do not know—it was addressed to Southampton-street, if I recollect right, or Southampton-terrace, Camberwell—I saw the letter before it was sent—I do not recollect what the contents of that letter were, not the words, the purport of it was, that the affidavit had been objected to, and we should require further instructions—Fletcher called in consequence of that letter, and I received from him on that occasion, a portion of the instructions to enable me to prepare a second affidavit—I first prepared them roughly on a piece of paper—I have not preserved that piece of paper—if I have not destroyed it, it is mislaid—there was afterwards a draft made of the affidavit, when complete, in my handwriting—Fletcher gave me certain instructions, and 1 prepared the affidavit—he said he understood there was a box in the possession of a clergyman at Great Marlow—that was stated to the clerk of the seat and the registrar, and they directed application should be made to the clergyman to look into this box to ascertain, in fact, whether there was any will contained—Fletcher was present, and heard that pass—I afterwards went into Mr. Potts's room with Mr. Fletcher—I did not then mention that direction to Mr. Potts—I think it had previously been mentioned
to Mr. Potts—Fletcher said he believed there was no will—he understood there was no will—I forwarded the draft of an affidavit to the elderly person, Mrs. Stewart—I prepared and forwarded that by Fletcher's direction—the affidavit was drawn in the first instance by instructions given by Fletcher—that was objected to by the registrar as insufficient—other facts were required, and then Fletcher, on being applied to, sent Mr. Barber-Mr. Barber was informed what was required, and from him we received written instructions, which I have—this is the draft of the affidavit I prepared, and which was objected to, and afterwards perfected, as in red ink, but it had been submitted to him several times—there are other alterations made in black ink—those were the first—the subsequent ones were in red ink—those alterations were from instructions received from Fletcher, and afterwards from Barber—these are the written instructions I received from Mr. Barber—the draft of the affidavit appears to be signed "Elizabeth Stewart" and "T. Griffin"—the draft came back to me in this state—there is the word "approved" above the signature—I required to have the signatures of Stewart and Griffin to this, being a very peculiar case, and the instructions not being given very fully—I had no instructions furnished to me, which I can produce signed, or any document emanating from Griffin or Stewart—I required their signatures to the draft, being a very peculiar case, and in order that we might be sure the parties were cognisant of the fact; and more particularly because the registrars in general, will not look at any draft-affidavits unless they can ascertain that the parties will really swear, in order that there may be no perjury—they will not look at it until it is sworn, unless under very peculiar circumstances; and I therefore produced this signed—I think Fletcher brought it back, "approved," with these signatures upon it—I then took it an approved, to the clerk of the seat, and afterwards, by his direction, submitted it to the registrar, as is always the case—the affidavit was no at that time perfect—I afterwards received the draft back from the clerk of the seat—it was objected to from time to time; at length it was perfected—the registrar directed application should be made to the clergyman, having been informed this box was in his possession, to ascertain whether any will was contained in the box; and that. the answer should be submitted to him, the registrar—an application was made to Mrs. Stewart for that purpose—I think a letter was written—this is the letter I wrote—(This letter was dated 13th August, 1840, signed Frederick William Potts, and directed, Mrs. Stewart, 1, Southamptonterrace, Southampton-street, Camberwell, and stated that the draft, approved by herself and Griffin, was not deemed sufficient, and requesting her to write to the clergyman of Great Marlow, for further particulars about her brother's property, to inquire whether there was any will, and to forward the reply to him, Mr. Potts)—after I had written that letter, Fletcher called again—he was informed of all that that letter states—it was gone through with him, and he went away, if I recollect, promising that the application should be made to the clergyman—I do not think he said any thing about his attorney on that occasion—I think it was on a previous occasion, when application was made to him to amend the affidavit, stating that certain amendments were required, he said that be would send his solicitor, Mr. Barber, a very shrewd, clever man—that was before I saw Mr. Barber at all—Mr. Barber then called—the circumstances were all detailed to him—I am not aware that he took any notes in writing, of the information I gave him—Mr. Barber, when I had told him this, said he would furnish me with the necessary instructions—Mr. Potts, upon seeing Mr. Barber there as a solicitor, said, he was very happy to see a professional man, he had not the pleasure of knowing Mr. Fletcher, and asked him who he was—he said he was a man of high respectability and large property, or something to that effect—a day or two after, Mr. Barber called again—he brought
a paper which I have got—that was on his second call—a letter was produced, I think, on another occasion—when he came in the first instance, it was explained to him what was required—he then brought the written statement, and, I think, this letter, with a burial certificate—this is the letter Mr. Barber produced on that occasion—the burial certificate was afterwards annexed to the document, as also the letter, but the clerk of the seat did not consider it necessary to remain, and it was disannexed—then the affidavit was prepared, produced to the clerk of the seat, again laid before the registrar, and afterwards sworn—thus is the affidavit—I was not present at the swearing of that last affidavit that I am aware of—I have no mark I can speak to—it is not necessary for me to be present—a letter was written to Mr. Barber upon that—a certificate or certificates of baptism were also brought, I am not certain which—they were brought at the same time with this statement, by Mr. Barber—they were annexed to the affidavit.
(A certificate of baptism of John Stewart, son of Robert and Jane, of the parish of St. Marylebone, on 26th of April, 1761, born on 11th April, was here read; also of Elizabeth Stewart, the daughter of Robert and Jane, on May 15th, 1763, born April 22nd.)
(The written instructions furnished by Mr. Barber were as follows:— "Mrs. Stewart states, that she was informed of her brother's death through the kindness of an intimate friend of her late aunt's, who resided in New York, in America, who came over to Bristol with her in May last, of the name of Jones, in consequence of his having business in London. He promised her that he would go down to Great Marlow and see her brother, and take a letter to him for her, which he did. On his return, he informed her that her brother had been dead ever since March, 1827. Mr. Jones called on her about a month since, and informed her that he was then going back to America, and she had neither seen or heard from him since. Mrs. Stewart was informed by her late aunt, that Mr. Jones was formerly a captain of a vessel trading from New York to Bristol, but that he is now a gentleman of independent property. Her late aunt, Elizabeth Stewart, with whom she (Mrs. Stewart) had been living at New York, had frequently told her that her brother John had about 700l. in the sinking fund in the Bank of England, and also that he had money out on mortgage, which she has every reason to believe is true.")
E. KEENS re-examined. Q. In the course of your different conversations with Mr. Barber upon this subject, when speaking of the prisoner Fletcher, did you ever speak of him by any other name than Fletcher? A. Never—a letter was written to Mr. Barber, and I should think an appointment was made through Mr. Barber, for the parties to come to be sworn to the affidavit—I remember their attending to be sworn, but I do not remember the day—I recollect an elderly person coming and Griffin—I think they came together—I do not remember whether or not Fletcher was present upon that occasion—I do not remember that Mr. Barber came in the course of the attendance for the swearing of Griffin and Mrs. Stewart—the administration was sent to Mr. Barber.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Did the old lady come alone at first, or who was with her? A. Mr. Fletcher, I am quite certain—I am speaking of what passed while they were there, from looking at the bill of costs—I have a recollection of what passed in my own memory, without the document—I am quite certain of these two parties coming together—I have no recollection of the conversation that took place, except from the document, in that respect, because there was nothing very peculiar in it, further than giving instructions for an administration, on the first occasion—I have been speaking of what passed on the first interview, when Fletcher and the old lady came
together, from my ordinary practice in all cases of administration—I was present when Griffin was there—I cannot recollect whether I saw him sworn or not—I recollect the affidavit being explained to him—it was read over to him—he appeared thoroughly to understand it—he asked no question about it that I remember—it was read over by examination, Mr. Pott taking either the draft or engrossment, and one reading against the other—I was present when the old lady signed the bond—J. Powell, the clerk of the seat, is, in all cases, the attesting witness—there were many persons in the seats' room—a person named Jones was in the same seat—I cannot say that he was present at that time—he is a usual clerk, and his usual place is in that seat, ouring business hours.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. About what age did this old lady appear to be? A. She was an elderly lady, but I cannot say as to her age—she had on, I think, a dark cloak, if I recollect right—I cannot say as to her personal appearance—she was not very tall, she was a moderate-sized woman—I did not see Mr. Barber until after the second affidavit was required—the bond had been prepared at that time, at the first proceeding—I should certainly not have supplied a security for Mr. Fletcher if I had not regarded him as a respectable man—there was apparently no risk to any party, the sister being the only next of kin, and the only person entitled to property—all that, I learnt entirely from the representations of the sister or Fletcher; and from his appearance and those representations, I thought there was no risk in furnishing him with a security—the obtaining letters of administration was an irregular business, a peculiar affidavit being required—as far as I could see, it was transacted in a proper manner—I did not go to Mr. Barber's office during any part of it, to my recollection—I do not know whether Mr. Pott did.
Cross-examined by MR. JAMES. Giving a bond is a mere matter of form, is it not? A. No, it is not; I procured my own brother-in-law to execute it.
Friday, April 12th.
THE QUEEN AGAINST BARBER AMD OTHERS, CONTINUED.
WILLIAM SMEE , Esq. I am chief accountant of the Bank of England—In 1840 Sir John Rae Reid, Bart., was the governor of the Bank—I received written directions coming from him, to transfer certain stock, 51l. Long Annuities—this is his order, signed by him—in pursuance of that I transferred a sum of 51l. Long Annuities on the 20th of Oct., 1840—I have the transfer before me—the stock was transferred into the name of Elisabeth Stewart, of Southampton-terrace, Southampton-street, Camberwell, spinster—there is no number given—I made the transfer myself—E. C Wilkinson is the attesting witness.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Do you know anything about who was the governor of the Bank at the time you are speaking of? A. Yes, because I have the governor's order before me signed Sir John Rae Reid, governor—I know that he was the governor at that time, independent of that document.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Have you the signature of Elisabeth Stewart there? A. Not to the transfer.
book called the taking-in book, which I have here—I have an entry of the 16th of Oct. 1840, made by myself—letters of administration of John Stewart appear to have been left at the Bank for registration on that day (looking at the letters of administration)—I find on the back of these the mark of that registration by the Bank—it is "Bank Register, K. z., 73036"—my initials J. W. are at the bottom—an application for the restoration of the stock was also left at the Will-office—this is it—here is also a burial certificate, two baptismal certificates, and a letter from Mr. Cox well—I cannot say these papers were all brought at the time of the letters of administration, but they were subsequently produced—they were brought in about that time in relation to these letters of administration—this other document, which is pinned up with these papers, I should say came with them—it is not usual to keep letters of administration at the Bank after they have been registered—we return them to the parties on their producing a ticket to entitle them to it—the letters of administration were returned on the 24th of Oct.—it is customary for the person who gets back such a document, to sign a receipt for it—here is the receipt for which was signed for that—(the entry was—" Name? Stewart. Will or administration? A. Number? 170,658. When registered? 19th of Oct. When re-delivered? 24th of Oct., without ticket. To whom re-delivered? (Signed) W. H. Barber, 21, yard.")
WILLIAM JOHN DONALD . I believe this "W. H. Barber" to be the signature of the prisoner Barber—I know him personally—I believe it to be his handwriting (looking at a letter)—I believe this to be his writing—I have no doubt whatever of it.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Have you ever seen Mr. Barber write? A. I cannot recollect having seen him write—I have a knowledge of his writing from paying his checks with his name to them.
MR. WELDON Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. It is not usual, is it to produce the bond for administration at the Bank? A. I am not aware that it is.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Is this entry "Stewart A.," the number and date of re-delivery, all written by the same person? A. No, "Stewart" is written by Mr. Rippon—the numbers are Mr. Smith's I apprehend—the 19th of Oct. is in my writing—the "24th of Oct. without ticket" if Mr. Rippon's—that means either that the ticket had been lost or mislaid, and the administration restored to the party, and that memorandum is descriptive of the transaction—we sometimes restore the papers without a ticket, when the parties are known—we do not return them unless the parties are identified—the process of identification is very short—we say, "You know the party to be the party mentioned in these documents?"—it is signed by some person known to the clerks in the office—they are generally brokers, or brokers' clerks, or bankers' clerks—the entry with regard to the ticket was made on the day on which it bears date, the 24th of Oct.—it was given up that day.
JOHN BRADLEY RIPPON . I am a clerk in the Bank—the word "Stewart" in this entry is my handwriting, the rest is in the handwriting of two other persons—the day of the re-delivery is mine, 24th Oct.—I have no doubt that was the date of the re-delivery—the person to whom I delivered it no doubt signed that name—that is the practice.
(The following documents were here read)— "15th Oct. 1840. To the Chief-accountant at the Bank of England—Sir, I respectfully request, that you will have the goodness to transfer into my name certain Long Annuities, amounting to 50l. a year, or thereabout, now or lately standing in the name of my late brother, John Stewart, of Great Marlow, Buckinghamshire, gardener, and which I am informed have been
transferred to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt. I should long since have made this application, bat hare been for several years in America. I only learnt the death of my brother on ray return in May last. My brother died in March, 1827.—ELISABETH STEWART, NO. 1, Southampton-terrace, Southampton-street, Camberwell."
A certificate of marriage, signed D. M'Pherson Session-clerk, between Robert Stewart and Janet Stewart, both of the parish of Callander, on 19th Jan. 1756—a certificate of baptism of John Stewart, son of Robert and Jane, on 26th April, 1701, at St. Marylebone; also of Elizabeth Stewart, daughter of Robert and Jane, on 15th May, 1763, both signed Bryant Burgess, curate—a certificate of the burial of John Stewart, steward to James Cranbourne Strode, Esq., on 19th March, 1827, at Great Marlow, Bucks, signed Thomas Tracey Coxwell, vicar of Great Marlow.
"To H. Barber, Esq., 21, Tokenhonse-yard, London, dated Marlow, Aug. 16,1840.—Sir, I see on the gravestone of the late Mr. John Stewart (be age 65 years. I never heard of a will. I never had any papers, or anything belonging to him, in my possession. T. T. COXWELL."
"Mrs. Stewart states, that in or about the month of June, 1826, she received a letter from her brother, John Stewart, of Great Marlow, informing her that he intended to come to London on a certain day in that month, but was afraid that he should not be able to call on her as usual, as his time would be short; he therefore wished her to meet him in the Bank of England, as he had previously promised to make her a present the next time he came there—she went to the Bank accordingly, in company with Mr. Grffin, when her brother presented her with 5l., and he (her brother) ultimately agreed to, and did accompany her and Mr. Griffin home, and stay a short time, at No. 49, Mortimer-street, Cavendish-square, the same day."
CHARLES HILL . I am a member of the Stock Exchange. In 1840, my office was at 23, Threadneedle-street—I know Mr. Barber—I had seen him for two or three years, before 1840—in Oct. 1840, he called at my office—I cannot recollect the day—he requested me to accompany him to the Bank, to identify him—I went with him to the chief-accountant's office, Bank of England—I there saw Mr. Gray the deputy-accountant, and a female dressed in dark clothing—she was between forty and fifty, as well as my memory will serve me—to the best of my recollection, she was not far advanced in years, or feeble—I think she was not an aged person; but the time is to long since—she was not thin—to the best of my recollection, she was a bulky person, stout in width and breadth, and rather above the middle stature—I have no distinct recollection, whether she was pale or fresh-coloured—she was in black—I did not observe any decrepitude about her—I think, she did not appear to have any of the infirmities of age—Barber introduced her to me as Mrs. or Miss Stewart—the usual document was then handed to me, with the words, "W. H. Barber, known by me;" which I signed—this is my signature—I do not know Mr. Barber's hand-writing.
MR. DONALD re-examined. This signature, "W. H. Barber," is Mr. Barber's writing.
(The order of Sir John Roe Reid, Governor of the Bank of England, was here read, directing William Smee, the accountant-general, to transfer to the account of Elizabeth Stewart, of Southamptonterrace, Southampton-street, Camberwell spinster, the sum of 51l., Consolidated Long Annuities, for eighty years, transferred from the account of John Stewart, of Great Marlow, Bucks, gardener, to the account of the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, on the 11th of Oct., 1836; and also, directing 739l. 10s.,
being the unclaimed payments on the said annuities, from the 10th of Oct., 1826, to the 10th of Oct., 1840, to be paid to the said Elizabeth Stewart. On the back was written, Paid, 22nd Oct., 1840, Elizabeth Stewart, spinster—known to me, W. H. Barber—known to me, Charles Hill.")
MR. HILL re-examined. On the 24th of Oct., Mr. Barber called at my office, and gave me instructions to sell 51l. Long Annuities, for Elizabeth Stewart of Southampton-terrace, Southampton-street, Camber well, spinster—at the latter part of the day, an appointment was made to attend and transfer the stock—I sold the stock in the meantime—at or about two o'clock, Mr. Barber called, and we went together to the Transfer-office—the same female was introduced to me, as the person who was to transfer the stock—I have never seen any body since who, in my opinion, resembled that person—the female transferred the stock in my presence—I gave this cheek to Mr. Barber—(This check was dated 24th Oct., 1840, on Lubbock & Co., far 652l. 0s. 9d.; signed, Charles Hill)—I afterwards discovered, that I had paid him 3l. 3s. 9d. too much—I made that discovery by taking the Bank receipt to the dealer, to be paid for the stock—instead of selling the stock at 12 3/4, it was sold for 12 13-16ths, the fraction was 1/15, 1s. 3d. for each annuity, which amounted to 3I, 3*. 9d.—on making' the discovery, I went to my own office—I afterwards went to Barber's, in Token house-yard, but did not find him—I then went to Lubbock's the banker's, and, on returning from thence to my office, they told me that the bankers had sent a clerk to say, the check had been paid, in gold—at the latter part of the day, I told Barber that I had learnt the bankers said, it had been paid in gold—he observed, they were silly people, or country people, and were alarmed at the panic, that then prevailed (there were rumours of war with France)—! inquired the address of Elizabeth Stewart—he gave it me—I wrote to her, and sent the letter by my clerk—it was returned—a day or two after, Mr. Barber repaid me the 3l. 3s. 9d.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. I believe you were a colleague of Mr. Barber's on the committee of the Southwark Literary Society? A. I think not—we were both members of that Society—Mr. Barber was one of the committee—he stood high and respectable in society as far as I know—the members of the committee were chosen on account of their respectability—the committee is formed of some of the very first men in the borough of Southwark—I heard that Lord Brougham presided on one occasion—I was not present—I do not exactly recollect whether I asked for Elizabeth Stewart's address, or whether Mr. Barber gave it me before I asked for it—I think if I were to see the female again, with the same attire, I should recollect her—she was not very aged—to the best of my recollection she did not exceed fifty—I have seen no person since, resembling her—I saw Mrs. Saunders at the Mansion-house, and I now see Mrs. Dorey—I do not remember whether the female had a cloak on—I identified her at the sale of the stock.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. On the second occasion you identified her? A. Yes—the stock cannot be sold without the broker does so—on the former occasion, on my identifying Mr. Barber, Mr. Barber's identification of her was taken as sufficient—I have no doubt whatever that the woman I saw on the second occasion was the woman I had seen before—I think if I saw her again it would bring her to my mind—the address of Mrs. or Miss Stewart was on some of the papers—there must be a ticket drawn out, upon which the whole description must be given—if I wanted the address, I could not have obtained it without any difficulty—persons very often change their residences half a dozen times—it did happen to be the same address—I did not know the stock had been transferred into her name so recently—when my clerk brought back the letter he said Miss Stewart was out—my instructions to him were to bring it back if he could not find the person at home.
THOMAS HARDING . I am a cashier in the banking house of Sir John William Lubbock and Co. I paid this check all in gold, as far at I know—the sum was £652 0s. 9d.—there might have been a mixture of sovereigns and half-sovereigns—it was weighed.
RICHARD JAMES TILLOTSON . I am a clerk in the public Drawing-office of the Bank of England. I have an entry of the 22nd of Oct, 1840—this is an order of the chief cashier of the Bank of England for the payment of £739 105. on the Long Annuities for eighty years—it was brought to me and I paid it—it is signed Elizabeth Stewart—I cannot swear that a female signed it—I have no recollection of the transaction beyond paying the money according to the practice, the party should put their name at the back.
MR. DONALD re-examined. These words, "Administratrix, 1, Southamp-ton-street, Camberwell, Surrey "I believe to be Mr. Barber's handwriting—it reads, "Elizabeth Stewart, administratrix," &c.
MR. TILLOTSON continued. I paid £630 in Bank of England notes—I did not pay the remainder—it is the practice of the office for one clerk to pay the money, and the other notes—the notes I paid were four of £100, all dated 9th of March, 1840, Nos. 63460, 63461, 63462, and 63463; five of 20l., all dated 5th of March, 1840, Nos. 93879,93880,93881,93882, and 93883; ten of 10l., all dated 3rd of Aug., 1840, Nos. 49088, 49089, 49090, 49091, 49092, 49093, 49094, 49095, 49096, and 49097; six of 5l., all dated 1st of Sept., 1840, Nos. 19122, 19123,19124,19125,19126, and 19127—I handed the order to Mr. Hilary to pay the remainder—we pay notes or cash at the desire of the person presenting the order.
JOSEPH DERMER . I am an in-teller of the Bank of England. I have a book to which I refer when I pay gold for notes—on the 2nd of Nov., 1840, I exchanged some Bank of England notes, in the name of Stewart, for gold—they were four 100l. notes, three 20l., eight 10l., and six 5l.—I have not the numbers or dates—they amount to 570l.—I file them, and a clerk comes down, and receives them of me—when notes are exchanged for gold, we require the person's name and address to be put on the top of the note as on those produced—it is generally put only on the first note, but it is frequently put on more—we only require it on one—they are kept together.
WILLIAM PALMER ORD . In 1840 I was a clerk in the Bank of England, in London,—I am now in the Leeds branch. On the 2nd of November, 1840,1 find notes to the amount of 570l. were exchanged for gold—I took them from Mr. Durmer, of the Teller's office—they had the name of Stewart in Mr. Durmer's book, and on the back of the notes—(looking at some notes)-these are the notes that I took from Mr. Durmer—I have referred to Mr: Dunner's book, and find my initials to an entry there, showing that I obtained these notes.
MR. GRATTON re-examined. The writing, "Elizabeth Stewart, No. 1, Southampton-terrace, Camberwell," on all these notes, 1 believe to be Joshua Fletcher's. —(These notes were four of 100l., dated 9th March, 1840, Nos. 63460, 63461, 63462, and 63463; three of 20l., dated 5th March, 1840, Nos. 93880, 93882, and 93883; eight of 10l., dated 3rd. of Aug. 1840, Nos. 49089, 49092, 49093, 49094, 49095, 49096, and 49097; six of 5l., dated 1st Sept., 1840, Nos. 19122, 19123, 19124, 19125, 19126, and 19127.)
JAS. CRANBOURNE STRODE , Esq. I formerly resided at Court-garden, Great Marlow—I had an uncle named William Strode, who lived at Niarn Inn Lodge, Northall, near Barnet—he lived there in 1804—he had a gardener at time, named John Stewart—I knew a gentleman of the name of Von
Hopkins, of Cobham, by name—I am not sure whether Stewart came from him to my uncle—my uncle died in July, 1809—Sir Simon Le Blanc bought part of the estate of Northall, in 1811—Stewart remained there some time after Sir Simon bought the estate—in 1820 he came to reside with me as gardener, at Court-garden—he died in 1827—I respected him, and a stone was put up to his memory in the church-yard—I often had conversation with Stewart—he told me he had no relations, except a brother, who went away early from Scotland—I never heard him mention any other relation; and he had not seen him or heard of him for a number of years—Stewart was himself a Scotchman—I could judge that from his dialect—after his death some papers of his came into my hands—among them I found some stock receipts—I know Stewart's handwriting—this endorsement, "My own private affairs," on this paper, is in his handwriting—within that paper I found these other papers—they were exactly as they are now, in this tin case.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Did you find that box yourself, or did one of your servants? A. This tin case was given to me when I returned home—I was absent when Stewart died—I cannot recollect who gave it—it is so long since—I came home the day after he died.
JOHN HUNTER . I am the Session clerk of Canongate, in the city of Edinburgh. I think I am acquainted with the handwriting of William Lothian, the minister—he is dead—I have here the handwriting of Archibald Aitkin, one of the elders—I know his handwriting from this book, but not individually—he is also dead, and has been dead thirty or forty years—I do not know the handwriting of Alexander Crichton—he was an elder—he is dead—I did not know Mr. Lothian—he has been dead more than fifty years—there were no books kept by him—the public books in which his signature appears, have come into my hands—I have not become acquainted with his handwriting by seeing those books—I have not had occasion to refer to them, and to act upon his signature—this book is the minutes of the Kirk Session of Canongate, and is kept for the purpose of minuting the transactions of that body—I have never referred to them that length of time back—I have looked over it since this business—it is the course of business for the minister to sign these minutes—I have the minutes during the time this gentleman was minister—I have not, by looking at those minutes, acquired such a knowledge of his handwriting, as to be able to form an opinion whether it is his signature—I have looked at the books since this question has arisen.
Q. I want to know whether, looking at the minutes, and looking at that gentleman's handwriting, you can form any opinion whether that is his handwriting 1 A. My opinion is that it is—I have been able to form an opinion from that source—on the 27th of May, 1782, there were two ministers of Canongate, the Rev. John Macfarlane and the Rev. William Lothian—two persons, named Archibald Aitkin and Alexander Crichton, were elders at that time—James Brown was at that time the session clerk—he was not my immediate predecessor—he has been dead twenty or thirty years, or more.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Who is that book kept by? A. The session clerk—I bring it from the Canongate—it is kept in my possession as session clerk—I knew some of the parties, from personal knowledge, in my infancy—I did not know the clergyman—I must have been very young at that time—I did not know Macfarlane—I knew Aitkin and Brown—I am fifty-nine years old next August.
COURT. Q. Does this contain an account of births, marriages, baptisms, or deaths? A. No—they are kept in separate volumes—that is the record of the births—this is merely the transactions of the meetings of the kirk session.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Who are the persons who attend the kirk
session? A. The two clergymen, the elders, and the clerk—their duties, are various; each one has bounds appointed to him, to Visit the poor, and attend to the business of the church, as to collections, and many other things—they have something to do with church discipline—they can remove a person out of the congregation—it is very seldom done, hut they can do so with improper persons—they also assist as dispensers of the sacrament—the Kirk Session is a court from which there is an appeal to the Presbytery, from the Presbytery to the Synod, and from the Synod to the General Assembly—I knew Brown, but I cannot say he was session clerk then—I was very young—my father and he were very intimate.
MR. STRODE re-examined. All these papers were delivered to me in the tin ease the night I came home—these Bank papers were not within the paper marked private—the papers inclosed within that envelope, marked "My own private affairs" were in the tin-case—he died early on Tuesday morning, and I came home on Wednesday night.
JOHN HUNTER re-examined. Q. Is it usual for the minister and elders of the kirk session, when a person leaves a congregation, to give any certificate, so as to enable him to be admitted into any other congregation? A. If they ask for it, it is given—it is usual—if they apply to be received into another congregation, it is usual to require a certificate from the congregation they have left.—(This document was not read.)
MR. STRODE re-examined. I never saw Barber, or any of the prisoners till I was at the Mansion-house—I received this letter (looking at it) in Sept., 1840, and this is the answer I wrote.
MR. DONALD re-examined. I believe the signature to this letter to be Mr. Barber's handwriting, and the name of the person it is addressed to.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did Mr. Barber bank at the Bank of England? A. He did—his account was not always low generally speaking—I cannot tell, the largest amount be had, without looking through the whole of his account—I do not know the handwriting of Mr. M. Nauara, Mr. Barber's clerk—Mr. Barber did not bank with us in Oct., 1840—(read)—Sept. 7th. Sir,—I am instructed to apply to you or behalf of Mrs. Stewart, the administratrix of her late brother John, who was. formerly in your service. As there was some property in the funds which belonged to the deceased, it is important that Mrs. Stewart should be possessed of the stock receipts, which, she understands, are in your possession. Will yon have the goodness, therefore, to acquaint me if such be the feet, and whether you have any other documents which belonged to the deceased? (Signed) W. H BARBER.
Sir,—Your letter, dated the 7th of September, arrived in due tint, but I was from home Mrs. Strode did not forward it to me. As she was in daily expectation of my arrival, it was not forwarded. In answer to your note of yesterday, the 11th of September, I beg to say I received it in its regular order. The papers I had of my late gardener's (Stewart's) are at my solicitors', Messrs. Pickering, Smith, and Thompson, Stone-buildings, Lincoln's Inn, where I beg to refer you for any explanations you may wish J C. STRODE.
MR. WILKINS to MR. STRODE. Q. Did you receive more than one application from Mr. Barber? A. I did not—I never kept the letter of the 11th—I do not recollect having it—Mr. Barber did not apply to me for any arrears of wages due to Stewart, or any one on his behalf.
Cross-examined by MR. GRHAVES. Q. Did not you cause a gravestone to be put over the deceased? A. I did—the inscription put on it was by my direction—it was, to the best of my knowledge, correct—I think he appeared to be between sixty and seventy years old—I paid the expense of his burial
out of his money—I know Mr. Coxwell, the vicar of Great Marlow—I never had a box of Stewart's in my possession—he lived with my uncle before he lived with me—I have seen him there.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. What was the inscription of the stone? A. I do not recollect—I think his age is stated as sixty-five—that was from what I have heard from the time he had been away from Scotland, and hearing him talk about it—I understood from himself that he was sixty-five.
EDWARD THOMPSON . I am one of the firm of Pickering, Smith & Co. solicitors, Lincoln's-inn—we were concerned for Mr. Strode—I heard of the death of Stewart from Mr. Strode several times—I heard of it in 1840, and before.—On the 19th of Sept., 1840, Mr. Barber called at our office, (I do not remember his producing any letters of administration then, he did afterwards), he wanted me to give him information respecting the property of John Stewart, the late gardener of Mr. Strode, of Great Marlow—I believe these to be the letters of administration—he said he applied on behalf of the sister—I said I knew there was no sister, from information I received from Mr. Strode, and I always understood Stewart had died leaving no relation whatever—he asked me to give him information of the property, and some stock receipts which were in possession of Mr. Strode, which he understood had been forwarded to me by Mr. Strode—I said I had no instructions to give him any information whatever—I certainly should not be satisfied with the letters of administration—he said not with letters of administration? the Prerogative Court have been satisfied with the evidence, and granted letters of administration—I said it was easy to procure letters of administration from the Prerogative Court, and from information I had of Mr. Stewart having no relations whatever, I certainly should not give him information—he said there was an affidavit produced with the letters of administration—I asked him to let me see that—he said the affidavit was filed—I asked him to let me see a copy of it—and that was the end of the first interview—he said he would call again and produce the affidavit or a copy—he said that the sister was a very old person—I do not know whether that was at that interview or a subsequent one—I said, "Let me see the sister"—he said she had come from America, as well as I can recollect—I do not recollect whether he said how long she had been from America—he said she had shortly returned from America—I asked to see her—he said she was very infirm, and could not come, a very old person—he called on the 24th Sept and produced a copy of the affidavit, and there were no certificates attached to it—I asked him for the certificates—he said they, were filed, but the affidavit referred to them—I refused to give him any information—I said we were so perfectly satisfied there were no relations whatever of Stewart, we should be satisfied with nothing short of legal proof, at which be seemed very much surprised—my clerk (Andrew Bessant) was not present at this interview—I believe he saw Mr. Barber afterwards—I did not see him afterwards myself—I believe I have stated all that passed—letters passed from our office with the prisoner.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did you receive a letter from Mr. Barber on the 31st of Oct? A. I cannot say the date, they are all in court.
ANDREW SPENCER BESSANT . I am a clerk in the office of Pickering and Co.—I remember being present at an interview between Mr. Barber and Mr. Thompson—I believe it was on the 24th of Sept.—after that Mr. Barber called again on the 1st of Oct. following—I then saw him—he was to send a copy of the affidavit on the 24th of Sept—I think the copy was in my possession on the 1st of Oct.—I referred to it in conversation that day—I told him it was not satisfactory, and pointed out where I considered it was not so—I have not seen the affidavit since—I believe he took it away with him—I have not seen it for four years—I believe that is it (looking at it)—I stated the defects
in it, more particularly any omissions—I quite recollect pointing out to him that the meeting at the Bank ought to be better explained, it was not likely a woman coming to England should meet her brother, coming from a distance, at the Bank—I particularly requested information as to where the deceased was born, and where he went to school—I also observed it was very odd the lady having come from New York to Bristol, and from thence to London, should get a person to take a letter to Marlow instead of going there herself—I said I wished to see the certificates—I recollect on that occasion Mr. Barber expressed himself very much dissatisfied that we did not think what he had already shown us was sufficient, and wished to know what would satisfy us—I told him we certainly depended on any information the sister could give, a sister could give any information that would satisfy us, and I suggested that we might see the sister—I rather think he said she was indisposed—at all events there was an answer given that we could not see her—I wrote on a piece of paper the particulars required—I objected at first, saying, "You ought to give us information without our suggesting it"—I then put down two or three simple questions—he took the memorandum away with him, and said he would get the information we requested—I never saw him again, and believe he never called it all—I received this letter on the 31st Oct., and this is a copy of my answer.
MR. DONALD re-examined. This letter is Mr. Barber's handwriting—
(Read)—"21, Token-house-yard, Oct. 31, 1840. Re Stewart, deceased, Gentlemen,—I am informed your client, Mr. Strode, holds some monies of his late servant, and which were due to him at his decease. As it will be the duty of my client to get in all assets without delay, and to furnish a residue account to the Stamp-office, I shall be glad if Mr. Strode will inform me what amount of money, if any, was due to him, either for wages or otherwise W. H. BARBER. Messrs. Pickering, Smith, and Thompson."
"Stone-buildings, Lincoln's-inn, Nov. 2, 1840 Re Stewart, deceased. Sir, In reply to your letter of the 31st ult., we beg to inquire who is your client, and by what right such client calls for information touching the affairs of the deceased. If your present application be on behalf of the party whom you represent as being a sister of the deceased, we have only to say, as we have before told you, that we are not satisfied that she is the sister, and as such we are not disposed to pay any more attention to it than to the applications made by other parties claiming to be next-of-kin of the deceased. Yours, &c., PICKERING, SMITH, and THOMPSON. Mr. W. H. Barber."
MR. BESANT re-examined. I afterwards received this letter:—
MR. DONALD re-examined. This is Mr. Barber's handwriting.
(Read)—" 21, Tokenhouse-yard, Nov. 4, 1840. Re Stewart, deceased. Gentlemen,—In inquiring who is my client, and by what right such client asks for information on this subject, it must surely have escaped your recollection that I took the trouble to produce for your inspection the letters of administration procured by such client, Elizabeth Stewart, the sister of the deceased, together with an affidavit in support thereof. Such an administration was not obtained until every query suggested by the registrar had been answered to his entire satisfaction. Subsequently to this, I have supported the claim of Mrs. Stewart so entirely to the satisfaction of the Bank Directors, as to induce them to order the transfer of stock which had stood in the deceased's names to that of my client. With all due deference, therefore, I submit she is entitled to have her claim regarded in a very different light to that of the other applications to which your letter refers. I submit also that she is fairly entitled to an answer to the inquiry contained in my last, without being driven to the expense and delay of a bill of discovery, or any other adverse proceeding. Yours, &c., W. H. BARBER. Messrs. Pickering, Smith. and Thompson."
MR. BKSANT re-examined. This is my answer to the application of the 4th of Nov.:—
(Read)—"Lincoln's Inn, Nov. 6, 1840. Re Stewart, deceased. Sir,—We have no desire that your client should be driven to the expense and inconvenience of filing a bill. Our only object is to be satisfied, on the part of Mr. Strode, that Elizabeth Stewart is the sister of the intestate. When this is accomplished we shall afford every information in our power. At present, certainly, it appears to us, from the copy of affidavit, which is all that we have had produced, that she has not made out her relationship. We shall be glad to have satisfactory answers to the queries you required us to put down in writing when you were last here, and which we then requested you to procure for our in-formation. Yours, &c, PICKERING, SMITH, and THOMPSON. Mr. W. H. Barber."
MR. BESANT re-examined. I heard nothing more of Mr. Barber after that—I recollect pretty nearly what the queries were—I put down where the deceased was born, where he went to school, at what age he left home, and which of his parents, if either or both, was at home at the time he left home.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. I find here "this deponent refers to annexed certificates of baptism?" A. Yes—I read that—I do not recollect Barber telling Mr. Thompson the certificates were filed—I was not present during the whole interview—if I had heard it I should have known I could go to the Prerogative Court to see them—I am not aware of the practice of the office—I believe our house had a trifling matter of business with Mr. Barber since that—it may be a year or a year and a half ago—he was concerned for a man against whom we brought an action for a small debt, which has never been paid.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Did you understand that the original affidavits were filed? A. It was understood to be an office copy—I am not aware of the practice of the Court—Mr. Barber did not say anything about that—there, was no office copy produced of the certificates.
COURT. Q. Do you know whether they give office copies of exhibits? A. In Chancery they do—I am not aware of the practice of the Prerogative Court.
MR. SEATON re-examined. We should give copies of exhibits, with copies, of affidavits, if asked for—I do not know whether they were supplied in this instance.
JOHN HARDY . I am seventy-one years old, and live in the parish of Crichton, in the county of Edinburgh—I have lived there almost all my life—I knew a person named John Stewart perfectly well—I first knew him upwards of fifty years ago—he worked with me as gardener to Mr. Patteson, more than two or three years—Patteson had three sons, John, William, and James,—I do not know whether they are alive now—the son John was fourteen or fifteen years old when I first knew him—he went into the west country, to some nobleman—he was bred a gardener—John Stewart went from our parish to Phantassie, to live with a Mr. Rennie—I know nothing of John Stewart's family, I never heard him mention one.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Is not Stewart common name in Scotland? A. Yes, very common—I never knew any other John Stewart—I heard that he went to Phantassie—I never saw him there—I did not see John Patteson after he left.
of fifty-two years ago—I knew John Stewart living there at the time I was there—he lived with Mr. Rennie, in the same service as I was, and under the same master—I did not know him at Crichton—he continued there twelve months—he was there that time—Phantassie is about eighteen miles from Crichton—I left him at Phantassie when I came away—I understood from him that he had a brother named James—he never spoke to me about having a sister—I was very intimate with him—I do net remember whether I saw him with a certificate or not, but he came with me to Haddington, on the road to Crichton, which is better than a mile from Crichton—I left him at Haddington—he returned the Same day and we went home together—I got my certificate that day, and brought it back with me—(looking at a certificate) I do not remember seeing this—he did not show it me—after he left Phantassie he came to visit me for three days the left the neighbourhood very soon after that—he was eight years older than me—I am seventy-four—he was about thirty years old when he left Phantassie—I never saw him in Scotland after he took leave of me.
JOSEPH LOCKHART . I was formerly a gentleman's gardener, and reside at Wimbledon—I was acquainted with John Stewart, A gardener at Wimbledon—I first became acquainted with him between forty and fifty years ago—he always went as a native of Scotland—I could not judge from his talk whether he was a Scotchman or not—I was born in Scotland—when I first knew Stewart he was living at Wimbledon, with John Shelly, Esq.—he had a man named John Patteson, working under him at Mr. Shelly's—I was intimate with Stewart—I saw him occasionally till near his death, but not very lately—I remember him With the two Mr. Strode, the uncle and nephew, one at Northall, and the ether at Court-garden—when he lived with Mr. Strode, he occasionally called on me at Wimbledon—I once saw John Patteson's father as Wimbledon—he called to see his son, when be worked for the same John Stewart—old Patteson and John Stewart always appeared to be acquainted—he saw John Stewart—I never beard John Stewart mention his family but once—he once told me he had no relations living that he knew of, he had a brother that went to the Indies, and he had not seen or heard of him for twenty years, and he supposed he must be dead—he never told me he had a sister.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Were you ever at either of the Mr. Strode's in your life? A. Never, nor ever saw John Stewart in their service, but I have seen him at my house when he was in the service.
JAMES GUDGE . I am clerk of the Journals of the House of Commons—this is the journal of the Home for May, 1839—on the 27th of May, Mr. Charles Shaw Lefevre was appointed Speaker of the House—he was also Speaker in 1840, and has been so ever since.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Do you recollect whether the House was sitting in October, 1840? A. I believe it has not sat so late as October for several years.
JANE BIRD . I live at Falmouth. I knew Mrs. Susannah Richards, who was married at Falmouth—it is more than thirty years ago—I saw her once in my shop, after she returned from Lisbon, she was then a widow—I do not know the prisoner Dorey—Mrs. Richard's children were young when she left—she had three daughters, Susannah, Lydia, and Georgiana—I forget what Mrs. Richard's name was before she was married—her father Was a soldier When I knew him—I forget his name, but should know it if it was mentioned—it was Crene.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. How long did you know her father? A. I only knew him by seeing him in Falmouth—I cannot say how long, he was there for years.
Cross-examined by MR. PHINN. Q. Do you know what regiment he belonged to? A. No, he was a pensioner.
THOMAS GRIFFIN . I am a tailor by trade. I have come here from jail—I lodged in Poland-street, Oxford-street, about a dozen years ago—I there became acquainted with a person named Saunders, his wife and children—I knew Mrs. Dorey while I lived there—her name was then Georgiana Richards—I knew her mother, she lived with them there—there were four children, I believe—they lost one of their children while there—my wife laid the child out—that was the commencement of our acquaintance—Saunders and his family left the apartment before me—the Richards's went with them—they all went together—I afterwards left the lodging myself, then went to Gilbert street, then to 31, Duke-street, Grosvenor-square, and then to 34, in the same street—I lived therein 1840—Georgiana Richards (now Mrs. Dorey) called on me there—I think it was in the early part of the year, or perhaps April or May—I cannot say exactly—she asked me to do a favour for her mother—I asked what favour it was, if it was anything respecting money affairs I must decline doing it—she said it was merely to become a bondsman at the Stamp-office, respecting some property her mother was going to recover of a brother of hers, who had been dead some years, over in Berkshire; she had not been able to recover the money for want of means of doing so, that the brother had been dead thirteen or fourteen years, and if I was agreeable she would let me know when the document was ready for me to sign—I agreed to do so—I told her I could not afford to lose my time—she said she would pay me for the time I lost in attending—she said she would let me know when she should want me, when the paper was ready to sign—she said the brother of her mother had been living as steward and gardener with a gentleman in Berks, but I do not recollect that she mentioned the name of the place—after this conversation, I received a message, in consequence of which I went to St. Paul's church-yard, and at the corner of Paul's-chain met the old lady, Mrs. Richards, Mrs. Dorey's mother—a gentleman was with her—Mrs. Richards said, he was her friend who had advanced the money for her to recover the property—it was the prisoner Fletcher—I went with them both to the door of the Proctor's Office—Fletcher did not go into the office, I believe, at that time—I and the old lady went in—we went from there to the Prerogative Office, and I there signed a bond—after I left the office I received a sovereign from the old lady, and we parted—this is my signature—(looking at the bond)—about a fortnight after, I received another message, in consequence of which I went again to the corner of Paul's-chain, and met the same gentleman and old lady—we went to the proctor's office together again—(previous to that, Mrs. Dorey had called on me to go to meet her mother at the same place again, to complete the business)—we went to the proctor's office—I think Fletcher went with us—I was in the outer office at first, and while there another person came—I did not know who he was till the old lady said it was her solicitor—it was the prisoner Barber—this was not in the presence of Barber or Fletcher—she told it me quite privately—Mr. Barber spoke to the proctor's clerk, and then went into the inner office—I was in the outer office with Mrs. Richards—Barber did not remain in the inner office more than two or three minutes—after that, I went into the inner office with Mrs. Richards, and put my name to a paper—I think it was read over to me before I put my name to it—(looking at an affidavit)—I am not certain this is the paper—this is my signature—I signed this at Mr. Potts'—I then went over to the surrogate's, the old lady with me—I think I was sworn to the truth of this paper—after I had sworn and signed it,
I received a sovereign from the old lady, and a shilling to ride home with—about six months after that I received a letter enclosing another from Mrs. Stewart—I had observed that the old lady had subscribed the bond as Stewart, and not as Richards—she gave me a reason for that—Fletcher was not then present—I took no notice of the first letter—it was from the Stamp-office—I received a second and third, I believe, in consequence of which I went to Mr. Potts—I saw Mr. Potts's clerk, and received information from him—I went to enquire after Fletcher, and ultimately got an address which led to Southampton-terrace, Camberwell, and there left a message for Fletcher—I went to an address where I expected to find Mrs. Richards, and she had left—it was in the same place as Mr. Fletcher was living, Southampton-street, or terrace—I think it was terrace—I enquired there for her as Mrs. Stewart—I wrote to her two or three days after this, and two or three days after, Mrs. Dorey, (then Miss Richards,) called on me, and said she called in consequence of a letter she had received from her brother-in-law at Bristol, Mr. Saunders, about some letters which I had for his mother—that was the Stamp-office letters—I told her I was very much surprised to find the business was so very much neglected respecting the payment of the stamp-duty, which I was answerable for—she told me she would forward the letter to the attorney, who had the business to do for her, and I should have no further trouble about the matter—she said she was lodging in Dean-street, Sobo—I afterwards called in Dean-street, and saw Mrs. Dorey—she told me the letters were forwarded to the attorney, and she believed the business was settled—I afterwards got another letter from the Stamp-office, and went again to Dean-street—in consequence of information I got there, I sent a message to No. 45, Oxford-street, and in consequence of the answer I got, I went myself next day to No. 45, Oxford-street, and saw Mrs. Dorey—she was then married—she wished me to take the letter to the attorney, who, she said, was Mr. Barber, Bridge-street, Blackfriars—I went, but did not see him the first time—I went again, I think the next day, and saw him—I told him I had come respecting a letter I had left the previous day with his clerk—he told me he was then in treaty with the Stamp-office respecting the duty being paid, and I should hear no more about it—if I did hear any more about it, I should forward the letter to him if I got it from the Stamp-office—I never received any more letters—I received 10l. from Mrs. Dorey for what I had done.
Q. Do you remember seeing this paper (the draft of an affidavit with "approved" written on it) and putting your name to it, before you were taken to the Prerogative-office to be sworn? A. This is my signature to it—I dare say it was read to me before I put my name to it—it was read to me in Mr. Potts office.
Q. Were the contents of the affidavit to which you were sworn, at far as you were concerned, true or false? did you know the people for the length of time you state you did? A. I did not—I do not know that it was read over to me—not the whole of it, distinctly.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. On your oath, was not the whole affidavit read over to you by Mr. Potts? A. I will not take upon myself to swear it was not, certainly—I will not say it was or was not—I think if it had I should not have signed it, if I had understood the contents of it certainly not—I do not at present recollect any of it being read—I think it was most likely read over to me—I thought I was going to complete the business commenced previously at the Stamp-office—I knew I was sworn—I dare say I was sworn to the truth of the contents of the affidavit—I ought to have known better—I was sworn to the truth of it, no doubt—if I had known what was in it I certainly should not have signed it—I took the oath without
giving it a serious consideration—I did it in consequence of being told it was to complete the business previously begun—I certainly swore to the truth of the contents of an affidavit without knowing what they were—I believe in a state of future rewards and punishments.
Cross-examined by MR. PHINN. Q. How long before you moved from Poland-street did the laying out of the body occur? A. About six or eight months, I believe—that led to considerable intimacy between me and the family of the Richards—I saw very little of Mrs. Dorey—she was chiefly out—she appeared to be an obedient child to her mother—I had not heard the Richards talk of property belonging to their family which had been lost before I moved from Poland-street—I do not recollect hearing them talk of property at Lisbon which had been lost—I thought this a mere matter of form—I received the 10l. three or four months after I was at the Prerogative-office—I believe she said the money came from her mother.
JOHN HAWKES GEM . I compared this copy with the marriage register at Falmouth parish church—I also compared this with the register of baptism—they are correct. (These were a certificate of the Carriage of Thomas Richards and Susannah Crene at Falmouth on the 5th of May, 1785, and the baptism of Georgiana, daughter of Thomas and Susannah Richards, at Falmouth, on the 23rd of April, 1802, born on the 15th of March, 1802.")
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Did you read over an affidavit to Griffin? A. It was read over in my presence—I was present as the notary when they were sworn—this is the draft of the affidavit of the 31st of July—there is no doubt that was read over at my office—the affidavit itself was also read over—I examined it with the clerk—I had the draft and the clerk the original—Griffin was there at the time.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. I believe Mr. Barber was not called to your office till late in the transaction? A. No; all the preliminary arrangements had been transacted before he came—the affidavit, which I presumed would be sufficient, was made—I was not present when instructions were given for it—I do not conceive I saw Mr. Barber more than once—I then considered him simply professional—I have no doubt the certificates produced were annexed to the affidavit filed in the Prerogative-office, but I have no recollection at this distant period—I recollect there was some certificates annexed and filed with it.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Was the only reading over of the affidavit a comparison of the draft with the fair copy? A. I have no doubt the affidavit was read two or three times—the reading, I have spoken of, was for the purpose of comparison, and, at the same time, that the witnesses might thoroughly understand what the affidavit was that they were about to make, the affidavits were read to the witnesses before they went to be sworn—I do not recollect any reading, except the comparison—I do not recollect it, it is so long since—it is the invariable practice to read over affidavits to persons who are to swear, and, as the affidavit had been revised by the registrar, I am certain it was read over to him before it went to the registrar—it is the course of my office, that it should be so—the draft went to the registrar—I am certain the draft was read to him before it went to the registrar—I was not present, but it was the invariable practice—I think it went to the registrar two or three times—Mr. Barber came to me, in consequence of the difficulty of getting it through.
this charge—this statement is in her handwriting—I communicated the statement to Messrs. Freshfield's office, by desire of Mrs. Dorey herself—the had some time before expressed great anxiety to make a statement, and put the prosecutors in possession of all the facts she knew.
(The following extract from the statement was here read;)—"It is new about fourteen or fifteen years since I first became acquainted with the prisoner Fletcher, who was then living in the London-road, and practising as a surgeon, having a chemist's shop there; I was then residing in Portland-street; I cannot speak with certainty of my age; to the best of my belief, I was about eighteen or twenty; both Fletcher and his wife expressed a great partiality for me, and I became a frequent visitor at their house. They introduced me to a Mr. Stokes; and represented him as a gentleman holding a situation in the Bank of England. Some time after my intimacy at Fletcher's, Mr. Fletcher and Stokes solicited me to go to the Bank; they said, if I would only sign my same and address for them as a bondswoman, they would and did give me 50l.; I wrote more than signing my names and went to the Bank, I think more than once, with them both, and to the Commons'; I did not understand the business at all; Fletcher and Stokes took the money in their possession, that was paid at the Bank, and afterwards went to an inn, with a Mr. Pizey, (or Pizley,) who acted with them at the Bank, Mrs. Fletcher, and myself; after a long conversation between Fletcher, Stokes, and Pisey, the latter left us; we then got into a coach, and returned to Mr. Fletcher's residence, in the London-road. I gave the money I received from their, to my mother; I was at that time living with her, also my sister Mrs. Saunders, and her husband; neither of them knew that I had any money at all given to me by Fletcher; I remained on terms of friendship with Fletchers, for some time; I cannot speak of dates with any certainty, but I know it continued up to the first Christmas following the trial Mr. Fletcher induced me to enter against Mr. Taylor, for breach of promise of marriage.—After exchanging visits with them, Mr. and Mrs. Fletcher said to my mother and myself, they could do much better for us than my being in the Pantheon. On our inquiring how, they said that Mr. Fletcher had a friend in the Bank of England that enabled him to get money, and he could get some for us; we again asked, in what manner, but they did not explain, beyond Mr. Fletcher observing to my mother, that if she would place herself under his instruction and direction, he would do well for her, and asked her if she would do as be wished in, every thing; she said she would, after Fletcher saying he would guarantee that she should do nothing but what was right; Fletcher, after this, explained what he meant by saying there were a great many sums of money in the Bank of England without any claimants, which was in the hands of the Commissioners, and as there were no relatives. left to claim it, it belonged as much to the public as to them, therefore he would represent her as a relation to some person deceased, who had left money unclaimed, and one of the clerks, who stood high in the Bank, would supply him with all the information requisite to take the money; Fletcher then mentioned the name of Stewart, and said, that a man of that name had been dead some years, and left a sum of money, which by my mother being represented as Stewart's relation, could be easily obtained, but that she must place herself entirely under his direction, and leave her home for a short time to go to a lodging winch he would prepare for her; my mother assented, and promised to do as Fletcher directed. He asked, if I knew of any friend that would take care of any letters that might come through the post, directed to a Mr. Jones; I mentioned Miss Hawkes, and afterwards asked her, if she would take care of such letters, if directed to her care; she said the would, and the letters she brought to me, I gave, unopened, to Mr. Fletcher; I do not, on ever did know, their contents; I went to—the Bank of England with Mr. and Mrs.
Fletcher; Mrs. Fletcher waited with me in the Rotunda, while Mr. Fletcher went to look for his friend; whilst he was gone, the gentleman passed us; when Mr. Fletcher returned, Mrs. Fletcher told him Mr. Christmas had passed us, and we pointed to the office he went in; Fletcher went after him; after being absent some time, he returned, and we left the Bank together, Fletcher observing, I might be sure the gentleman I had seen would not risk the high situation he held, by giving information for him (Fletcher) to act on, if it were not legal. Fletcher took a lodging for my mother, at a shop in Southampton-place, (or terrace) Camberwell, in the name of Stewart, and my mother went and lived there in such name, and I, by Fletcher's direction, visited my mother as her niece. He said, he would not do any thing for me, if I did not give up my business in the Pantheon; that if I would do so, he would establish me, with his daughter, in some first-rate business at the West-end; I consulted with my mother about it, and she thought it best for me to do as he wished; therefore, I disposed of my stock in the best manner I could, and quitted the Pantheon, relying solely on Mr. Fletcher's promise of doing better for me. To revert to my mother's case, Fletcher expressed his regret at not having a person at command, who would say, that he or she had for a considerable time known my mother as Miss Stewart, and sister to the deceased, and, in other respects, to establish my mother's identity as such; on my asking him how he did not know of such a person, he said the fact was, he had employed all the persons he could in that way; that during the period of our not being on friendly terms, he had two rich cases, in one of which he was the principal, and, in the other, he had only a share, but that he realized a large sum of money by them; that a man named Briggs, and his wife, were the parties employed to take the cases; Fletcher said he had taken lodgings for Mary Briggs the wife, and mentioned those cases, to assure my mother that she was not endangering herself in any way. On my mother saying to Fletcher she knew a poor man, a tailor, that was much reduced in circumstances; he said, tell him you will give him 10l. to identify you as Miss Stewart, and sister to the deceased Stewart. He (Fletcher) wrote out an account for my mother, to make herself perfectly acquainted with, and desired her to give it to Griffin after she had done so, that he might know what to say as to the particulars of the matter; at the same time, he said, she was to strongly impress on the mind of Griffin a belief, that Stewart was my mother's family name. Mr. Griffin lived in Duke-street, Grosvenor-square; my mother subsequently saw Griffin, the man now in custody on this charge, and made the proposition to him, which he accepted; she told Fletcher, that Griffin was quite willing to the proposal; he (Fletcher) then said, that was all he required, as Mr. Barber and himself would manage all the rest; I cannot say how long the case was in hand; Fletcher was fearful my mother would not live to go through the business; he took her medicine nearly every morning; she was then seventy-one or seventy-two years of age; I do not know of any other inquiries made, respecting the case, but those I have stated. The money was obtained, and Fletcher gave my mother between 400l. and 500l. for her trouble; I heard nothing further of the matter, except that the legacy duty was not paid, although it had been invested in the hands of Barber, the solicitor, to do so at the time. An official communication was made to Griffin, some time after, from Somerset House, upon which he came to me to know what to do; I said he had better take it to Barber, the solicitor; I gave him half-a-sovereign for his loss of time. Previous to my mother quitting the lodgings at Camberwell, Mr. Fletcher said he should not consent to my mother's returning again to Rathbone-place; therefore, much against her inclination and my own, I took a lodging in Tottenham-court-road; I do not recollect the number; it was a carver and gilder's shop, on the right-hand side
of the road from Oxford-street; I am the only person that visited her, while the remained there; she was so unhappy, I told Fletcher I should have her home; he reluctantly consented, after she had been there about a fortnight or three weeks. In Stewart's business, I gave to Mr. Griffin ten sovereigns; I took them to his lodging in Duke-street, and gave them into his own hand; five from Fletcher, and five from my mother. Soon after this, I removed from Rathbone-place, to live in Tottenham-court-road; the Fletchers were then living in Southampton-place, Camberwell; I spent much time with them; he was our only friend and adviser; he frequently said he interested himself as much in my welfare as he could do for his own daughter."
MR. GREAVES to MR. WOOLFF. Q. When was it you sent the statement? A. I believe it was the end of Feb., the 28th I believe.
MR. BODKIN. Q. is this the letter you sent with it? A. Yes.
MR. GREAVES. Q. Did not she want to be admitted as an accomplice, to give evidence? A. She was in hopes that by furnishing the particulars to the prosecution it might prove of advantage to her I believe—that is a deduction of my own from conversation I had with her.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. I do not know whether you know that any caution had been given to her? A. Oh yes—I had cautioned her—I believe a caution had been given to her by the visiting Magistrate in my presence—I had several interviews with her before the statement was furnished, and she insisted on its being furnished.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Do you mean to state to the best of your belief she was cautioned before she made any statement? A. Yes—she was certainly not asked for the statement before she made it to my knowledge, nor in my presence—I do not know that she was asked to make a statement by a Magistrate of the City before she did so—in what I have said I have acted on the instructions I have received—I was to instructed by her.
MR. ATTORNEY-GENERAL. Q. Were you present when any thing passed in the presence of the Lord Mayor on that subject? A. Yes I was, and in the presence of Mrs. Dorey—the Lord Mayor entirely repudiated it—he denied it.
WILLIAM CHRISTMAS . I was formerly a clerk in the Bank, and have been so for fifty years. I was suspended about two months since—my situation in the Bank gave me the means of knowing about the unclaimed dividends and stock in the Bank—I had some communication with the prisoner Fletcher on the subject of disclosing to him any particulars of that stock—I cannot say precisely to the time—with respect to the prosecution now before the Court, in the name of Stewart, I think it must be between three and four years since.
Q. Did you communicate the particulars of the annuity standing in the name of John Stewart? A. Unfortunately for myself I did—after the stock was transferred and sold I received some money from Fletcher—I cannot charge my memory exactly how much—there were other occasions upon which I received money from him—whether it was on that occasion 50l. or 100l. I do not know—it was one of the two—it was in gold—my mind has been so distressed I cannot speak with certainty.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Pray, did you know it was contrary to your duty to communicate anything about it? A. Most unhappily for myself, I did—my communication about what passed with Fletcher has been principally with Mr. Freshfield—I mode no communication to any one else—I did not mention a word of it till after Fletcher was in custody—I think it is more than a month ago that I communicated to Mr. Freshfield—I
think Mrs. Dorey was in custody before I communicated it—I believe so, but I cannot speak positively to the time.
THE RIGHT HON. WILLIAM MAGNAY, LORD MAYOR . I acted in my capacity as Lord Mayor when the prisoners were under charge during several examinations—I remember the occasion when Mr. Wilkins appeared on behalf of Mrs. Dorey—from instructions which he received, certain observations were addressed to me, as having had a private communication with Mrs. Dorey—in consequence of what fell from Mr. Wilkins on that occasion, I thought fit to state publicly what I knew on the subject—there is not the slightest truth in the suggestion that I had sought to procure any statement from any party on the subject matter of this trial—I said that publicly to Mr. Wilkins, and he in the handsomest manner apologized to me for having been betrayed into stating it.
(The bond was here read, and was for 300l., dated 31st July, 1840, for the due administration of the effects of John Stewart, gardener, Great Marlow, signed Elizabeth Stewart, John Gregory, and Thomas Griffin.)
Saturday, April 13th, 1844.
THE QUEEN AGAINST BARBER AND OTHERS, CONTINUED.
MR. WILKINS called the following witnesses.
JAMES MORRIS . I am gardener and beadle of Nelson-square, and have been so eight years last July. I recollect Mr. Barber residing in the square more than seven years—I think he resided at No. 52—the brass plate now produced was upon that door till within the last year or nine months—it was taken off when the house was under repair—("Mr. W. H. Barber, solicitor" was on the plate—I knew some of his clerks—Mr. Barber held his office there during the earliest portion of the time—I know a clerk named Peckham very well indeed—he came to the office every morning, I believe—if there had been any inquiries for Mr. Peckham, I should immediately have gone to Mr. Barber's to seek him.
ROBERT PECKHAM . I am now managing clerk to Mr. Bramhall, a solicitor, No. 5, Verulam-buildings, Gray's Inn—I was managing clerk to Mr. Barber—I went to him on 10th Feb. 1837, and continued in his employ up to the January of this year, about three weeks after his arrest—I had access to Mr. Barber every day while he was in custody, during that three weeks—I remember the parties from the Bank coming to see his papers—during that three weeks no alteration whatever had been made as to the position of these papers, with the exception of looking out such letters as were advised by Mr. Barber's attorney, and copies being made of them, all of which have been produced to-day—I remember the case of Elizabeth Stewart being brought to Mr. Barber's office—at that time there were two clerks in the office directly employed by Mr. Barber, and a messenger—there was a gentleman having offices in the same house, whose business Mr. Barber had purchased, and whose clerks salaries were also paid by Mr. Barber, and who had to do his business, when required—I think there were five or six besides a messenger—this business of Stewart's was conducted in the office precisely in the same open way in which other business was done—a clerk who managed the business kept a diary of the transactions carried on there, and Mr. Barber also—I have carefully looked over that diary, in reference to this transaction, to see what entries were made by myself—this is the diary—here is an entry of 25th August,
1840, in my own handwriting—I made it at Mr. Barber's dictation, or from being told by him to what effect to write—at the time I made that entry I was perfectly acquainted with the events of which it is a short history, and if Mr. Barber gave the names wrongly, in the hurry of dictation, I altered them as the fact was—I very well remember Mr. Fletcher attending at Mr. Barber's office that day—I did not hear what his errand was—this diary is for the year 1840, and during that year it was always on Mr. Barber's desk, ready to be entered daily—it was open to the inspection of everybody—it was a book of access and reference—Mr. Bircham was not a partner at that time—it was open to his inspection when he became a partner—I observe two handwritings of clerks in the diary, and that of Mr. Barber—James Macnamara is the other clerk—I cannot speak as to the number of times Mr. Fletcher attended at Mr. Barber's office, between 25th August and 23rd Oct.—I saw him coming frequently, sometimes daily, but I took no particular notice—he had been a client of Mr. Barber's since the autumn of 1838, or the spring of 1839—but with reference to Mr. Fletcher's calls, I should observe, a call-book is kept in the office, by which, the moment a gentleman appeared in the office, his name is put down by a clerk, and that book is here—every time any client called his name would be immediately entered by one of the clerks—that was a task generally performed by Mr. Macnamara—during the time I was in the office, Mr. Barber transacted very considerable business for Mr. Fletcher—it was not so extensive, but it was rather heavy business—actions for demurrage and freight, mortgages, rent-charges, and various things—it was what we call the superior business of a client—I was on very intimate terms with Mr. Barber, during the whole time I was his clerk—he treated me more as a son than a clerk—I never in my life saw Mr. Fletcher in his company, except at his office—he was so proud, that I had particular instructions never to assume any familiarity—I never discovered or saw any familiarity between Mr. Barber and Mr. Fletcher—there was a greater coldness towards Mr. Fletcher than any other client—Mr. Fletcher was rather repulsive in his manner, and Mr. Barber did not court him—I remember Mr. Barber going to Great Marlow very well indeed—I did not go with him—I made an entry in the diary at his dictation, a day or two before he went, of his intention to go, and I know of his absence from the office on that day—I remember the months of May and June preceding the 1st of Oct.
Q. Now during the whole of those two months was Mr. Barber absent for a day from the office? A. On one occasion he and I were at Rochester together, with the exception of that one day he certainly was not absent from the office during the whole of those two months—Mr. Barber's effects have been sold since this, both at his private house and his office—they were sold to defray the rent—Mr. Bramhall has conducted his defence gratuitously—several other friends have supplied funds to pay counsel's fee.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. When did you first go to Mr. Barber's? A. On the 10th of February, 1837—I was never articled to him, I was to have been—I continued in his service from the 10th of Feb. up to Nov. 1839, when I left him to go into a large office for two months—I then returned to him, and have been with him ever since—I think it was in Nov., 1839, that I left him, and went into the office of Taylor, Sharp, and Field, Bedford-row—I cannot give the precise date, I think it was about the 16th of Nov.—I returned, I think, about the 19th of Jan. 1840—I have been in his service ever since, down to the time of his apprehension, without any intermission—I know a person named Hartung, a German—at least, I did know him when he was a client, I think about 1839—I called on him at the time I was at Taylor, Sharp, and Field's—I had some dispute with Mr. Barber's servant, in
consequence of slamming a door—he gave me some unkind word, and I left him, this situation offering on the same day—the servant's name was Charlotte Gallard, I think—Mr. Barber is unmarried, he never has been married that I am aware of, I never heard of any wife, certainly none ever lived with him—he had no wife.
Q. During the time you were absent from Mr. Barber's, did you not say to Mr. Hartung that if you chose you could hang Mr. Barber? A. Oh, no—I heard, through Mr. Barber, that such a statement had reached his ears, I was disgusted at it, and immediately wrote to Mr. Fresh field, emphatically denying it, that it was a gross falsehood—I believe somebody had told Mr. Barber—I heard it at the Mansion-house from Mr. Barber—I most certainly swear I did not make that statement—this is not the only transaction with Mr. Fletcher relating to the proving of wills—there are several others relating to the same business as the wills, relating to unclaimed dividends—there have been three of these transactions besides this, which form the subject of other indictments—there was another before, I think, or very nearly contemporaneous with this, which has not been made the subject of an indictment—those were the only ones that I am aware of—Oh, by the bye, I beg your pardon, there was another; there was one in which Mr. Bramhall, my present employer, received about 1000l. from unclaimed dividends, for which he was very thankful—that was an affair between Mr. Fletcher and Mr. Barber—Mr. George Robins, the auctioneer, was the party who died, leaving the dividends unclaimed—altogether there were three transactions besides this, forming the subject of an indictment—there was one, I think, before, or if not before contemporaneous with these certainly; and there was another, Robins' matter—I do not know at this moment of any other—that is six, I think—Mr. Fletcher was concerned in all those—there were others besides, in which Mr. Fletcher has not been concerned, I believe—I do not know when they began—I mentioned that because you were so anxious in your inquiry, and Mr. Barber's instructions are, that every thing should be stated—he has not given me instructions as to the manner in which I should give evidence—I have been instructing Mr. Wilkins in this case—Mr. Bircham became a partner. either on the 17th or 21st of Dec, 1841—Mr. Barber generally came to the office of a morning about a quarter past nine—he was generally there before anybody—up to the latter end of Nov., his office was at his residence, 52, Nelson-square—just at the time of my leaving him, he changed his office to Tokenhouse-yard—when I returned to him at the beginning of 1840, his office was in Tokenhouse-yard—he continued to reside at 52, Nelson-square, up to his apprehension—his office hours at Tokenhouse-yard were from half-past nine; he staid till half-past five, himself, and I was generally there till half-past six—I lived with my father at that time, on the Buildings, at Apothecaries hall—he has been there thirty years—I did not live in Nelson-square, but I used to be there about three nights a week, and spend the evening with him; to read and write, and enter up his diary—he had no family at that time that I know of—I have continued my intimacy with him up to this day—he has, I think, two children, but I do not know that they are his children, by any means—I never heard him say so, it was only from popular report I heard it—they never lived in the house with him—I was not aware of his having two children; it was too delicate a subject for me to talk to him about—I am perfectly aware that no birth ever took place in his house.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Except as to popular report, did you ever know Mr. Barber had any children? A. By no means—my father is the head assistant in the warehouse of the Apothecaries' Company—he has been on the Company's buildings I think about thirty years—Mr. Hartung is a client who got
very angry with Mr. Barber, because he sent him in rather a heavy bill—he has often said he would like to hang Mr. Barber—I never said I could hang him—there were all together six of these transactions—the one not the subject of an indictment was a claim of about 200l. by the representatives of a person named Smith, in which Messrs. Lawrence and Blenkiron, of Bucklersbury, were concerned for the parties—Mr. Barber merely gave the information through Mr. Fletcher—the other matter, which we called in the office "Robins's matter," was a claim to about 1,500l. unclaimed dividends, standing in the name of Mr. George Robins—Mr. Barber communicated with the trustees, and I believe the property was recovered—Mr. Bramhall has frequently told me so—he got his information from Fletcher in that case, and the money has since been paid into the Court of Chancery—I used to go home three evenings in the week with Mr. Barber, to read letters that came, to draft answers, make up the diary, prepare business for the following day, and take his instructions upon those matters which I was attending to, which I could not consult him about in the office from the hurry of business.
JAMES MACNAMARA . I have been a clerk of Mr. Barber's upwards of four years. I was his clerk in 1840—his office was then in Tokenhouse-yard—I do not remember during that year a case relating to unclaimed dividends in the name of Stewart—(looking at a paper)—this is my writing—I have a slight recollection of the case, but I do not know when it was.
MR. ATTORNEY GENERAL. Q. Look and see if that is your handwriting? A. Yes—(this was the instructions for the affidavit accounting for delay)—I have no recollection upon what occasion I wrote that, or how I came to write it—I suppose I was told to copy it—I cannot say by whom—I was sometimes told to copy things by Mr. Barber, and sometimes by the clerk—by any of the clerks—there was a boy in the office—I believe he might give it me to copy—he had not the conduct of any business—he would be acting under Peckham's authority—I do not think there was anybody besides Mr. Barber, Peckham, and the boy—I had it to copy from somebody—I cannot say by whom—there were other persons in the office—Mr. Knight had his clerks there—he is a solicitor in the same office, and his managing clerk managed some of the business as well, I believe.
COURT. Q. Did he manage for Mr. Barber? A. No.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Did Mr. Barber buy Mr. Knight's business? A. I heard something about it, but I cannot swear to the fact—Mr. Knight was there when his clerks were there—Mr. Knight might have given me instructions to write this paper—there was a Mr. Ackerman there—he might have given me instructions—he very frequently did, and so did Mr. Knight—a Mr. Swanisland was there—he might have given me instructions—I remember the diary being kept—I frequently made entries in it by Mr. Barber's dictation—I never saw Mr. Barber in company with Mr. Fletcher except in the office.
(The bill produced to the witness Hyatt was here read as follows:—"Greyhound Inn, Great Marlow, Oct. 13,1840; wine negus, 1s.; gin, 1s. 6d.; tea, 1s. 3d.; horse to Maidenhead, 5s.; total, 8s. 9d.")
BARBER— NOT GUILTY .
FLETCHER— GUILTY . Aged 50.
DOREY— GUILTY . Aged 32.
Tuesday, April 16.
Before Mr. Justice Williams.
1059. WILLIAM HENHY BARBER and JOSHUA FLETCHER were again indicted, with WILLIAM SAUNDERS , LYDIA SAUNDERS , and GEORGIANA DOREY , for feloniously inciting a certain evil-disposed person unknown, to forge a certain will, with intent to defraud Ann Slack—2nd COUNT, charging Lydia Saunders and William Henry Barber with uttering the said will, knowing it to be forged; and the other prisoners as accessories before the fact.—3rd and 4th COUNTS, stating their intent to be to defraud the Governor and Company of the Bank of England.—5th and 6th COUNTS, with intent to defraud the Rt. Hon. Charles Shaw Lefevre and others, Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt.—7th COUNT, charging Barber as the principal in forging, and the other prisoners as accessories before the fact.—Other COUNTS, varying the manner of stating the charge.
MESSRS. ERLE, CLARKSON, BODKIN, and SIR JOHN BAYLEY, conducted the Prosecution,
JOHN WILLIAM SEATON . I produce a document purporting to be the will of Ann Slack, deceased, formerly of Smith-street, Chelsea, and late of South-terrace, Pimlico—a copy of an affidavit on the subject was filed at the Prero-gative-office—we send the original to the Stamp-office.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Were you present in the first instance at the Mansion-house, when Mr. Barber was taken? A. Yes—I believe Mr. Barber, on that occasion, expressed a desire to enter upon the case immediately, without the aid of counsel—I was present—I heard Mr. Clarkson caution him, that if he did so, he might do himself a mischief—I do not exactly recollect Mr. Barber saying that he would go on, for he had nothing to fear—he said something to that effect.
WILLIAM SMEE, ESQ . I am chief accountant of the Bank of England. (Referring to a book.) In the year 1829, there was standing in the books of the Bank, in the name of "Ann Slack, of Smith-street, Chelsea, spinster," 6,629l. 17s., in the reduced Three per Cent. Annuities, and 3,500l. in the Three per Cent. Consols—they were both purchased on the 23rd of Oct., 1829, and the dividends on them were paid under virtue of a power of attorney, granted to Arderne Hulme, gentleman, of Hampden-wick, Middlesex—the Reduced power is dated 13th March, 1830, and that for the Consols, on the 5th of Jan., 1830—the dividends on the Consols were received by Arderne Hulme, up to the 6th of Jan., 1832—I knew Mr. Hulme in his life-time—I do not know that he was a partner in the house of Jones, Lloyd, and Co.—I only recollect his person—in consequence of the non-receipt of any dividends from the 5th of July, 1832, the sum of 3,500l. consols was transferred to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, on the 6th of July, 1842.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Are you acquainted with the manner in which parties, generally speaking, are identified, who come to receive money from the Bank? A. I am—the ordinary course is, that a party comes with his attorney, and they send for a broker to identify him—all that is written on the document is "known to me," and the signature of the party.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Are there not books published by authority, of the unclaimed dividends? A. There are, published by the Bank.
MR. ERLE. Q. That is, the name and description of the persons? A. Yes—it does not contain the amount of stock—it contains the period when the first dividend became due.
MR. GREAVES. Q. Does it not also contain the number of dividends unpaid? A. Yes, up to a certain date.
JOHN SLACK , Esq. I reside at Abbotts Langley, Hertfordshire. I knew the late Arderne Hulme. My father's name was George Slack—he did not leave considerable property—Mr. Hulme acted as the surviving executor of my father's estate, and guardian to myself and sisters—he died in July, 1832 he continued to act up to the time of his death, not for me, but for my sister—this paper is Mr. Hulme's handwriting—(this announced the purchase of the stock.)
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Has your sister any income besides that resulting from funded property? A. She has; she has money out on mortgage—I should say her income was handsome—it is more than 500l. a year, independent of the 3500l. consols—I do not know that I am bound to answer whether she is an intelligent lady.
COURT. Q. Probably not very much accustomed to business? A. Certainly not.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Can you tell about her age in 1842? A. Yes, she was of mature age—my eldest child was fourteen years of age last February.
GEORGE BEAMAN . I am a surgeon, and live in King-street, Coventgarden—I am the executor of the late Arderne Hulme, Esq.—I produce from among his papers, his books of account with reference to the family of the Slacks—it commences in 1828, and the last entry made by Mr. Hulme is on the 7th of May, 1832—on the 15th of Oct. 1832, there is a settlement of account between Mr. Hulme and Miss Slack, balanced and signed by her—he charges himself with the receipt of the dividends on this 3500l. from Jan. 1830, down to Jan. 1832, on account of Miss Slack, and also of 6629l. Reduced.
MISS. ANN SLACK . I reside with my brother-in-law, Capt. Foskett, at Abbotts Langley—Mr. Hulme at one time acted as guardian for me, and received my dividends—after his death I received my dividends myself—I was not aware that I had a sum of 3500l. in the Three per cent. Consolidated Annuities—I did not receive any dividend upon that sum until after this inquiry had begun—in 1829 I was living in Smith-street, Chelsea, with Mrs. Leek—she was no relation of mine—I resided there, and paid for my board and lodging—I left Mrs. Leek's in 1830, and went to reside with Capt. Foskett, with whom I have resided from that time to this—the signature, "Ann Slack," to this will (looking at it) is not my handwriting—I never gave anybody authority to make that will, or to write that name—I have never made any will.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. What is your age? A. Thirtyseven—I never had an interview with Mr. Barber—I went in a carriage to the office' door when Capt. Foskett went in—he left me in the carriage—that only occurred once—this writing to the will does not resemble mine in the slightest degree—this is my name signed to one of these accounts.
WILLIAM CHRISTMAS . I am a clerk in the Bank of England—I filled the situation of librarian there—that situation did not immediately enable me to become acquainted with the particulars of unclaimed dividends and stock in the Bank books, but other parts of my duty enabled me to possess that information—I am now suspended—I know the prisoner Fletcher—I cannot say positively how long I have been acquainted with him—about four years, or it may be near five—I am not sure—I have been in communication with him on the subject of unclaimed dividends in the Bank books, on four occasions I think—I am only speaking now to the best of my recollection—I think somewhere about the autumn of 1842, 1 gave him information with
respect to some stock in the name of Slack—I cannot speak for a few weeks—I am not sure of the amount of the stock I told him of, but I think 3500l., or thereabouts, in the Consolidated Three per cents.—I told him it was standing in the name of Ann Slack—I did not at that time give him any other description of Ann Slack than the name; but some little time after, upon the second inquiry, I gave him the description of Smith-street, Chelsea, the description that was in the books of the Bank—some time after Fletcher showed me a letter—I cannot say at what time, but I think it might be some few months after—two months possibly, or more—I cannot say exactly—I think it was thereabouts, but I speak from a very imperfect recollection—he said he gave me that letter to satisfy me as to the identity of the party who he had found out to be the owner of the stock, solely for that purpose (looking at a letter)—I do not remember the contents of the letter particularly, but I think I remember to have seen this signature—I think this is the letter—I compared this signature with this power of attorney, and the books of the Bank—after having done so I saw Fletcher again—I do not know how soon—I am not quite sure whether it might not be in the course of a day or two—to the best of my recollection I told him I thought there was something in the style of the writing, but I thought it a lighter hand; a younger hand, or something to that effect—I forget now the term I used—the letter was the lighter—I think a very considerable time elapsed before I heard anything at all about it again—I believe the next observation I heard from him about it was, that Miss Ann Slack, of Abbotts Langley, was not the person he supposed to be the proprietor, for she had never lived at Chelsea—I understood she had stated so—I do not think anything more passed with respect to it till the probate was brought in and registered.
Q. How did you learn that the probate had been brought in? A. I saw Mr. Fletcher passing through the Bank at the time it was lying there, and from him I heard it was then lying in the Will-office—he then observed to me he was satisfied that the Ann Slack of Abbotts Langley was not the party; he had discovered the proprietor of the stock to be deceased, and the probate was then there—hearing from him that there were two of the name, I believe I said to the effect, "You must be very careful in the identity of the party"—he said he was quite satisfied that he was right—I heard nothing from him about the transfer of the stock till after it was done—some two or three days afterwards he called upon roe to make me a remuneration for the information I had given him—he then told me the stock had been transferred, in fact the stock had been transferred and sold—he left 100l. in gold with me on that occasion, which I have returned to him since his apprehension—I think it was in the last week in January, or thereabouts.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Did you return that money before you made any communication to anybody about this transaction? A. Yes, before I told anybody concerned for this prosecution, or anybody else about what had passed—I have given Mr. Freshfield a detailed account of every-thing I have done while I have been in the Bank, which has been fifty years—I cannot enumerate the persons besides Fletcher to whom I have given information about unclaimed dividends—there were several which Mr. Fresh-field has a knowledge of—I supplied to him in writing as well as I could from my recollection every thing 1 had done—I think 1 supplied that information two months on Friday last—I have not received thousands of pounds from other persons besides Mr. Fletcher for information I have given, nor yet 500l.—it may be 500l.—I will swear it was not thousands—I have not seen or spoken to Fletcher since he has been in custody—he wrote to me requesting I would send him 100l.—the person I gave the money to was a stranger
to me, but he introduced himself to me by the name of Lawrence—I never saw him before that I know of—he brought me a message from Fletcher requesting I would send the 100l.—unfortunately for myself I did not come forward to give information, I have often wished since that I had been honest enough to the Bank to have told them—it was not in consequence of what anybody said of me that they came to me, but it was observed information was in possession of the Governor that I had been doing wrong in that respect, and requesting me honestly to acknowledge all I did, which I did—it was not in order to get free myself that I gave information—it will not place me in a better situation—I have offended so against the rules of the Bank that I am sure it will be unpardonable—I have never been examined before any Magistrate.
MR. ERLE. Q. Look at this paper, is that the account you gave? A. Yes—this is the truth, which I set down, in a very painful situation of course, and to the best of my recollection, I wrote it out for the satisfaction of the Governor of the Bank—there is only one person in this account besides Fletcher, to whom I gave any information—it mentions the amount which I have received for my information, several hundred pounds.
MR. GREAVES. Q. Will you swear you have not given information to more than one other person besides Fletcher? A. In that paper there is only one other name—I did not give information to many other persons besides Fletcher—I have done so to several individuals who I have a personal know ledge of, five, six, or seven—it has caused me many a painful, sleepless night to endeavour to recollect, because it has embraced a long period—I may have given information to five, six, or it might be seven, I cannot be sure; but those were individuals I personally knew, and I only reminded them of what some of them possessed a knowledge of already.
MR. ERLE. Q. Were those persons that you gave information to in the regular course of your business, bankers, and people you knew? A. Not under permission, it was an offence against the rules, even that—I had money for this, but I never asked for any in my life—the other persons to whom I gave information are none of the persons now under charge—I never knew or heard of them before their apprehension.
MR. GREAVES. Q. Were you asked about what you bad done, by the Governor of the Bank? A. Not naming this in particular—I was asked to acknowledge what I had done offending against the rules of the Bank—in the first instance I certainly did prevaricate to him—I did not deny what I have done, in the hope that it was not known.
JOHN APSLEY . In 1842, I was a clerk at the King's Langley station, on the Birmingham Railroad—I recollect two persons coming in the latter part of Sept. 1842, to make enquiry about a family of the name of Slack—the prisoner Fletcher is one of those persons—I do not know who the other was—I have no belief on the subject—they made inquiries of me—Fletcher inquired if there was any lady of the name of Slack, or a family residing in the neighbourhood of the name of Slack—I believe it was a lady—I named the family of the Slacks, of Manor-house—I then said there was a Miss Slack residing with Captain and Mrs. Foskett—Fletcher asked me if I knew the Christian name of the lady—I said Ann Slack, and that Mrs. Foskett was her sister—he asked me if the name of Ann was spelt Ann or Anne—I referred to a book of parcels delivery, and it was Ann—they, (I do not remember which, Fletcher, I believe,) asked me if I knew that she ever resided in Chelsea—I said I did not know—I believe that was all the conversation I had—Mr. John Slack lives in the neighbourhood—he lives at the Manor-house—I gave them the particulars of Mr. John Slack's family, and Fletcher said
he believed it was not the family, he believed it was not the same party—he said to his companion it was not the family they wanted—this took place in the office—Fletcher asked for some refreshment—they did not state any reason to me why they were making these inquiries—I did not ask them—I told them where Captain Foskett resided, and offered to go with them—they said it was of no consequence, they did not wish to go—they asked me if I knew whether Miss Slack ever resided in Chelsea, with a Mr. or Mrs. Leek—I am sure that was mentioned—I said I did not know—when they left they said they would walk to the Watford station—in going to Watford they would pass Captain Foskett's house—I told them so.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Are there not a great many persons come to the station you are at? A. There are not a great number—I first mentioned to Captain Foskett, some time last Dec, that something was said about Miss Slack having resided with a person of the name of Leek—that was the first time I mentioned anything about the persons having been to the station—I was required to come to London in Dec.—I was at the Mansion-house, but was not examined—I cannot say that I came up on purpose to be examined; I came by Mr. Freshfield's direction—I saw Mr. Freshfield first—I believe I mentioned the name of Leek to Captain Foskett—I believe I mentioned it before it was mentioned to me, but I will not swear—I first saw Fletcher, since this inquiry begin, at the Mansion-house, in the dock—the examination was going on against him at the time—Barber was also in the dock, nobody else—I had before that informed Mr. Freshfield of what had passed at Abbots Lanley—I expected to see Fletcher in the dock when I went in.
JANE SARAH APSLEY . I am the wife of John Apsley. In the autumn of 1842 I was at the King's Langley station on the Birmingham Railway—I remember my husband bringing two persons into my house, and saying, in their presence, that they came to make inquiry about a family of the name of Slack—I prepared tea for them—I recognise one of the persons, the one with spectacles (Fletcher)—I cannot say as to the other—the one this way (Saunders) I think, is about the sized person—he held his hand up to his face, and concealed it, therefore I am not able to form any belief or opinion about him—I do not recollect that he said anything particular about the Slacks—Fletcher did; he inquired whether Mrs. Foskett's Christian name was Margaret or Mary before her marriage—I told him I did not know—I proposed to take in candles—Fletcher said they did not require them—I sent in candles contrary to their wish—they Were sitting round the table—when the candles came in they got up, put on their great coats to take leave, and went away—I went in after the candles were taken in—they were then putting on their great coats.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. You sent in candles by a servant? A. Yes, and they got up to put on their coats to go away—it was between tax and seven o'clock in the afternoon, and at the latter end of Sept.—the first time any inquiry was made as to what I knew about this was some time before Christmas—I came up with my husband to London—I went to the Mansion-house—Mr. Baxter, Captain Foskett's attorney, caused me to come up—I was not examined at the Mansion-house—I saw two persons in the dock there—I was a very short time in the presence of the two persons who were at our house—I was in and out of the room—it was longer than a minute or two.
MR. ERLE. Q. Had you an opportunity of seeing the countenance and knowing the features of Fletcher? A. I had—he talked more than the other person—he had not spectacles at that time—I am certain he ia the man.
Langley. I married the sister of Miss Ann Slask—Miss 8 lack lives with me—in Oct., 1842, I received a letter, singed, "Barber and Bircham."
CAPTAIN FOSKETT . I wrote an answer to that letter—this is a copy of it—it is impossible to say the words—I believe it to be an exact copy—about the 26th of Oct. I received this other letter, to which I sent this answer—(produced by Mr. Wilkins)—on the 29th of Oct. I received this letter.
MR. DONALD re-examined. I believe the signature to this letter of the 26th of Oct. to be Mr. Barber's, also this of the 29th, only the signature—the body is not his.
(Letters read)—"To Captain Foskett, Abbotts Langley, Herts. 28, New Bridge-street, Blackfriars, London, 4th Oct., 1842. Sir,—We have occasion to ascertain who is the legal personal representative of Ann Slack, formerly of Chelsea, spinster. As we are informed you intermarried with some member of that lady's family, we should feel obliged if you can inform us who are her executors, administrators, or other legal representatives. We are, Sir, your very obedient servants, BARBER and BIRCHAM. "
"From Captain Foskett, to Barber and Bircham. 75, King's-road, Brighton, Oct. 13, 1842. Gentlemen,—In reply to your letter of the 4th inst., addressed to me at Abbotts Langley, I beg to inform you Miss Ann Slack is my wife's sister, and resident with us; her elder brother is also here. Any further communications will reach her, addressed as above, for the present and next week. (Signed) JOSEPH FOSKETT. "
"From Barber and Bircham, to Captain Foskett. 28, New Bridge-street, Blackfriars, London, 25th Oct., 1842. Sir,—We are obliged by your letter of the 13th instant; but as we find an entry of the death of Anne Slack (formerly of Chelsea) at Somerset House, by which it appears she died at Bath, we feel some doubt as to the identity of the lady in question. If, therefore, it would not be giving you too much trouble, we should feel exceedingly obliged by your acquainting us whether Mrs. Foskett's sister formerly resided at Chelsea, and whether she spelt her Christian name with or without an e. We noticed in your letter you spelt her name Ann. (Signed) BARBER and BIRCHAM".
"From Captain Foskett to Barber and Bircham.—king's-road, Brighton, Oct. 27, 1842. Gentlemen,—Having extended our stay at Brighton, your letter of the 25th inst. has been forwarded to me. In reply to which. I beg to inform you Miss Anne Slack does spell her Christian name with an e, and resided in Smith-street, Chelsea, with a family of the name of Leek about twelve years since, and has constantly resided since that period with her sister and myself. As you have not communicated the object of your inquiry, it is not in my power to assist you further at present We shall feel obliged by information on that head; and should it relate to bequests of the late Mrs. Bevan, deceased, shall be glad to hear, or upon any other matter. (Signed) J. FOSKETT.—P.S. We shall leave Brighton on Wednesday next for Abbotts Langley, Herts."
"From Barber and Bircham to Captain Foskett. 28, New Bridge-street, Blackfriars, London, 29th Oct., 1842. Sir,—We are much obliged by your letter of the 27th inst., and beg to know if it is probable that you will be in town shortly, as we should be extremely glad if you could favour us with a call, when the object of our inquiries shall be explained. (Signed) BARBER and BIRCHAM. "
think at the latter end of it—I went in company with Mrs. Foskett and her sister and Mrs. Leek—I left them in the carriage in the street, and went in and had an interview with Mr. Barber—he first asked me what property Miss Slack possessed, whether she had landed property, whether she had funded property, and to a large amount, whether she managed her affairs herself, what was her age, and I think he then communicated to me what had taken place, the object of his inquiry, that is to say, that a lady had died and left a considerable sum of money, to which he thought Miss Slack entitled—he asked me if she had ever signed a power of attorney, and if I believed she had received all that was due to her—he asked many other questions—I think I then told him that I could not recommend Miss Slack to incur any expense, until he could show me there was some reason to think she was entitled to something—he said that some trouble and expense had been incurred, but at present that was his own, that there probably might be more expense, and perhaps some risk—he asked me if she had any wealthy relations likely to leave a considerable sum.
COURT. Q. Did you give any answer to the inquiry about her managing her affairs, her age, and whether she had landed or funded property? A. I said that she had still a trustee living, who managed part of her affairs, but that the rest was in her own hands, and I think it was then he asked if I believed she had received the whole that was due to her—I said yes, I believed so—I thought him reserved, and I offered to identify ourselves as parties to whom he might give any information he thought proper, to show who we were, and I named certain parties, Messrs. Sutton, Messrs. Baxter, of Lincoln's-inn-fields, and Messrs. Clark and Cooper, of this Sessions-house—he said, he knew Mr. Clark very well, but it was of no importance then—I told him I could introduce Miss Slack to him in a very short time if it was necessary—she was outside in the cab at that time—I did nut tell him so—he expressed no desire to see her.
MR. ERLE. Q. Do You remember anything more at that interview? A. By that time Mrs. Foskett, who had been waiting a long time in the street, in consequence of my having been detained a long time below before I saw Mr. Barber, came to the door and inquired how much longer I should be detained, I desired her to come in and hear what the gentleman had to say, upon. which Mr. Barber asked a question which I do not exactly remember, but to which Mrs. Foskett replied—"You know, my dear, Mr. Hulme always managed her affairs till his death;" I then rose to leave the room, Mr. Barber followed us to the top of the stairs, and asked, "Is Miss Slack a person of strong nerves, or likely to be much concerned, or affected, ox excited, (I cannot recollect the exact terms) by the communication that a very considerable sum I may say 10,000l., or even more, has been left to her;" he concluded by saying that he had every reason to think that he should put her in early possession, but there was a point of doubt—I told him I did not think Miss Slack would be very much concerned, as she was sufficiently indifferent about these matters—I do not mean to say those were the precise words, but to that effect—we then left—I think Mr. Barber said that the lady who had left the property had died at Bath, but he had previously written to me to that effect, and I cannot say exactly—that she had died about six weeks since—the time at which she had died was part of the conversation—I asked when she had died, and he said about six weeks since, she had died or was buried—he requested J would not pursue the inquiry through any other channels—I think that was at the conclusion of the conversation—I am not quite sure at what time it was—I remember the fact perfectly well, but cannot remember at what period it was—on the 28th of Nov. I received this letter.
MR. DONALD re-examined. I believe the signature to that to be in the hand writing of Mr. Barber—(Read)—"28,
New Bridge-street, Blackfriars. 28th Nov. 1842.—Re Ann Slack, deceased.—Sir,—It would probably facilitate our inquiries if you could oblige us with the names of the trustees holding funded property for the benefit of Miss Ann Slack. Requesting the favour of your early attention, we remain, &c. BARBER and BIRCHAM. "
MR. DONALD. The signature to this is also Mr. Barber's—(Read)—"28, New Bridge-street, Blackfriars, London. 12th Dec, 1842.—Re Slack.—Dear Sir,—In reference to oar last letter some explanation of the object of the inquiry which it contained may be necessary. It appears that the lady entitled to the property in question was possessed of a small portion of stock in the public funds, and it would materially assist us in ascertaining the identity if you would acquaint us with the names of her trustees. If you could at the same time favour us with her signature, we think it would enable us at once to determine whether it is really her property or that of another party. If you are likely to be in town in a few days, we should feel obliged by the favour of a call. We are desirous, for the sake of all parties, of clearing up the point with the least possible delay. We remain, &c. (Signed) BARBER and BIRCHAM. "
Captain Foskett to Barber and Bircham.—Abbots Langley. 13th Dec. 1842. Gentlemen,—I have deferred replying to your last inquiry, with the intention of calling shortly, and purpose being in town on Friday next, or Saturday, when I will do so about eleven or twelve o'clock. You will no doubt remember that I stated I could not recommend Miss Slack to make herself a party to inquiry that would incur any expense, until she should see some little ground for supposing it probable she may prove to be the person legally entitled to the property bequeathed, when she would be willing to enter into some arrangement. As you have not yet favoured her with any further explanation, we regret the reserve you think necessary as an obstacle to our throwing further light upon the subject, which a very little communication might enable us to do. (Signed) J. FOSMTT. "
CAPTAIN FOSKETT . After that letter, I called on Mr. Baxter, my attorney, and in company with him I called on Mr. Barber, at his office—it was soon after receiving that letter—I do not remember exactly how soon—Mr. Barber asked if he was a professional man—he said yes—he then proceeded to state in substance what he had stated to me before, and he said it would facilitate his object if we could give him the signature of Miss Slack—I asked him by whom he was employed, or the name of his informant—he said that he had enjoined him to give no particulars and no names, but as he (Mr. Barber) was resident in town, and a professional man, he left him to make the inquiries, or to pursue the business—I do not recollect the expression exactly—I am not quite sure whether the remark was not made at the first interview—I do not distinctly recollect—he said he had access to information at the Bank not generally attainable—that remark was at the second interview, when Mr. Baxter was by—I asked Mr. Barber if he would give me the name of any broker, in order that I might see that be really had some knowledge with respect to Miss Slack, whether he really knew anything about Miss Slack's affairs—that was my object—he did not mention any one—I do not, at this moment, remember whether he made any further inquiry about Miss Slack—at the conclusion of the interview, I left with Mr. Baxter—I heard nothing more of or from Mr. Barber personally till this question arose, in the Nov. of 1843—I did from Mr. Baxter, but had no communication, either by letter or verbally, from Mr. Barber about this matter afterwards.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. When did Mr. Baxter give you any information? A. It arose thus, I think—Mr. Baxter and myself discussed the propriety of sending Miss Slack's signature to Mr. Barber; I returned home, and told Miss Slack that Mr. Baxter did not think any harm would occur, but I thought it better she should not write to Mr. Barber, but address Mr. Baxter, which she did, and which was conveyed to Mr. Baxter—I did not hear some time after that the real owner had been discovered—I never heard that the real claimant had been discovered—Mr. Baxter informed me, that he had received a communication from Mr. Barber, stating that he was satisfied Miss Slack was not the party entitled to it—at our interview, he expressed the opinion that Miss Slack was the party entitled to it—I told Mr. Barber that I did not know exactly Miss Slack's age; I might have said she was about twenty-seven, I do not know—he said forty would do, therefore I took no great trouble to remember—I at the same time said I did not exactly know her age.
MR. ROBERT BAXTER . I am a solicitor, and live in Lincoln's-inn-fields. On the 17th of Dec, 1842, I accompanied Captain Foskett to the office of Barber and Bircham, in Bridge-street, Blackfriars, and had an interview with Mr. Barbar—Mr. Barber said he could give some information relative to some property—he stated, that he was enquiring relative to the representatives of Ann Slack—Captain Foskett gave him some information relative to Miss Slack—he said the description Captain Foskett gave coincided very much with the party for whom they were enquiring; but there was a discrepancy which could be cleared, if he could have Miss Slack's handwriting to compare with some document—I believe he mentioned documents—he did not mention what they were—I do not recollect anything particular that passed beyond that—Captain Foskett afterwards consulted me on the propriety of giving the hand. Writing, and a note was written by Miss Slack, purporting to be addressed to myself—this is the note, it was forwarded to me by Captain Foskett, to be given to Mr. Barber—I took it to Mr. Barber on the 22nd of Dec—I saw him—I merely left it with him—nothing passed—I received this letter two days after from Mr. Barber, enclosing Miss Slack's note.
MR. DONALD re-examined. This is Mr. Barber's handwriting—(Read)—"Rose Hill, Dec 21st. My dear Mr. Baxter,—As Captain Foskett informs me you have had an interview with Messrs. Barber and Bircham, and think there is no objection to their seeing my signature for the purpose of assisting their inquiries respecting the property to which they think I may be entitled, I have sent it to you, that you may submit it to their inspection as you think right. (Signed) ANNE SLACK." "28, Bridge-street, Blackfriars, 4th Jan. 1843. Dear Sirs,—We beg to return Miss Slack's letter, and to state that we find the signatures do not correspond; and, consequently, we have arrived at the conclusion, that the identity cannot be supported. We trust you will be good enough to consider this negotiation confidential, and should our exertions to discover the right party prove successful, we shall not fail to communicate to you the result, for the satisfaction of the young lady and her friends. (Signed) BARBER and BIRCHAM. "
MR. BAXTER re-examined. Q. Did you hear from Barber and Bircham, or either of them, from that time till the discovery of this? A. I am not quite certain—I once met Mr. Barber in the street, and I mentioned the circumstance to him, but whether it was before or after I received this letter, I cannot say—nothing of any importance passed—no communication was made to me of the discovery of the right owner—Mr. Barber was quite a stranger to me when I first went to him—Captain Foskett gave him my name—I
do not know whether he gave him my address—I think he gave him my name as his attorney—I think Mr. Barber said, "Are you in the profession?"
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. You remember meeting Mr. Barber once, was that in Lincoln's-inn-fields? A. I think it was at the corner of the gate going into Lincoln's-inn—I spoke to him on the business—I have forgotten the conversation—I rather think it was asking if he had had an opportunity of comparing Miss Slack's letter with the writing.
MR. ERLE. Q.. Can you say whether he told you be had found out the party entitled to this property? A. He did not.
GEORGE OFFLEY . I am a solicitor, residing in Henrietta-street, Coven-garden. In 1843 I was acquainted with Misa Ann Slack, who formerly resided in Smith-street, Chelsea—I was not intimately acquainted with her, I knew she lived there—in March, 1843, I saw an advertisement relating to a Miss Ann Slack, in consequence of which I wrote a letter to Barber and Bircham, to whom the advertisement said communication was to be made—this is the letter I wrote—(read)—"March 8, 1843. Gentlemen,—I saw an advertisement in the Times of this morning inserted by your firm, for the discovery of the representatives of Miss Anne Slack, formerly of Chelsea, spinster; I know a lady of that name residing with her brother-in-law, Captain Foskett, at Rose-cottage, Abbotts Langley, Herts, who resided some years in Chelsea, and who had an uncle named John Slack, who lived in Sloane-street, Chelsea.
MR. DONALD re-examined. I am not certain whether this signature is Mr. Barber's writing—I will not swear it is his.
MR. WILKINS. Q. DO you know Mr. Bircham's writing? A. I believe I do—I certainly do not believe it to be his writing—I am not so well acquainted with the signature of Mr. Bircham as I am with that of Mr. Barber, therefore I cannot give an opinion.
MR. OFFLEY re-examined. I know nothing at all of Mr. Barber or Mr. Bircham—I did not go to their office about this matter, or see either of them about it.
THOMAS BAYNER CHAPELL . I am superintendent registrar of births, deaths, and marriages of the parish of St. George, Hanover-square—the Belgrave district is within that parish—I produce the original register of deaths of the Belgrave district, in which I find an entry of the death of a person named Ann Slack, of No. 8, South-terrace, on the 17th of Feb., 1843.—Mr. Jordan is the registrar of the Belgrave district—I received the original register from Mr. Jordan within three days after the 30th of Sept.—it was not full till the 17th of August, but it is returned to me when they come to make up their quarter's returns, ending on the 30th of Sept.—it baa never been out of my hands since it was handed to me.
WILLIAM PREW JORDAN . I am the registrar of births, deaths, and marriages for the Belgrave district. On the evening of the 25th of Feb., last year, the prisoner Fletcher called on me, and said he came to register a death—I asked him when it occurred—he said on the 17th of Feb.—I asked where—he said No. 8, South-terrace—I said I did not know such a. place as South-terrace in the district, there was a South-place, and asked whether he meant that, or whether he meant some houses further on, which went by the name of terrace, but there was no name written up—they were called Ranelagh terrace and Kemp's-terrace, a part of them—I asked whether he meant those houses near the wooden bridge—he said yes—I asked the number—he said No. 8—I said I did not think there were so many as eight—he said there was, and I entered it as such, as I find it here—he gave me the name of Ann Slack, and I wrote it down in his presence—I asked him how
the name Ann was spelt, with or without an e—he said with an e—I then entered the word "female" under the sex, and the age sixty-eight years—I got that from Fletcher, from what he told me—I inquired if she was a married woman or not—he said no—I asked her occupation—he said she was a gentlewoman and a spinster—I then asked the cause of death, which he stated to be gout—I asked whether it was gout of the stomach, heart, or head, because, I said, "People don't usually die of gout, except it attacks some internal organ"—he said she had been a long sufferer with the complaint—I then entered it as gout simply—I then asked him if he were present at the death, and he answered yes—I have so written it—I then asked him his address and he gave me "No. 4, James-street"—I asked him "Where, what James-street?"—he said, "Commercial-road"—I said there was no James-street, Commercial-road, Pimlico; there was a Robert-street—I asked him which Commercial-road he meant, whether he meant Commercial-road, Lambeth, or Commercial-road East, because there are two other Commercial-roads in London—he said Commercial-road East—he then signed his name, "Robert Hart," and I affixed the day of the month to the entry, "25th Feb., 1843," and signed it myself—I then gave him a certificate, which he was to hand to the undertaker, to be given to the clergyman—I do not recollect whether he asked for it; I gave it as a matter of course—on the 14th of March a woman came to me dressed in deep mourning, and, in consequence of what she said to me, I gave her a copy of the register—this is it—I cannot recollect the woman who came positively, I did not take much notice of her—I cannot gay either one way or the other, whether it was either of the female prisoners.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Do you mean to say you can speak positively to Fletcher? A. I swear positively to him, to the best of my belief and knowledge; as far as the recollection of a man coming to my house once, I should say he is the man—I have never entertained any doubts about him at all, and the more I see him the more I am confirmed in that belief—he was dressed in a small brown top coat; not a great coat, but a great surtout—he had not spectacles on at that time—the man who came to me was not a taller and stouter man—I have never said so, nor that the man bad light hair—I do not know a Mr. Henry Fletcher, I never heard of him—I certainty never told any one that the person who entered the registry had light hair, it was dark brown, almost approaching to black—I first saw Fletcher, after this charge, at Giltspur-street Compter; he was in a cell alone when I first saw him—I was taken there with a view to see if I could identify the person who came to my house—I went round «to a great many cells with the Governor, and at last came to a cell where Fletcher was alone—it was in the evening when he came to my place, between seven and eight o'clock, I should say, as near as I can guess—I had candles—he might be there a quarter of an hour, I cannot say to a minute.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. YOU went to several cells in which you saw prisoners alone? A. There were several in some cells, and when I saw Fletcher I was sure he was the person—he was alone—he had not spectacles on at that time—I did not notice his hair particularly at that time—it was partly grizzled, not quite so grey as it is now.
JOHN ROYCE TOMKINS . I am a clerk to Messrs. Freshfield, solicitors to the Bank. About six weeks or two months ago I made a search in the index of the general register of deaths at Somerset-house from the 1st of July, 1837, to the 31st of Dec, 1842—I did not find any entry there of the death of a person named Ann Slack, of Smith-street, Chelsea, or of Bath—I am sure there is no such entry—I have also looked in the neighbourhood of the
wooden bridge, Pimlico, for a terrace called South-terrace—the wooden bridge is at the end of the Belgrave-road—I believe it crosses the Grosvenor-canal—it is this side of King's-road, to the left I should say, but it is before you come to King's-road—I could not find any South-terrace—I found a South-place and a No. 8—I could not find any trace of a person of the name of Ann Slack there—I found a Commercial-road in that neighbourhood—I could not find any James-street there—I also inquired in the neighbourhood of Commercial-road East—I did not find any James-street, Commercial-road East, properly so described, although there arc several James-streets in the vicinity—I made inquiries at No. 4 in every one of those streets—I could gain no tidings whatever at either of those houses, of a person of the name of Robert Hart.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. What book was it you searched at Somerset-house? A. The Index—I was told so by the officials in the office—I have been there before to search—there were persons in the office whom I paid for the search—I did not know any of them personally—I know nothing of the book except what they told me—I do not recollect that I saw its title.
MR. BODKIN. Q. What office was it at? A. The General Registry-office, Somerset-house—that was written up over the door—I have searched at the same office upon other occasions—I do not know that it was the same book.
MARTHA ANN NEVILLE . I am the daughter of Mr. Neville, a tailor, and live at No. 7, Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road. About the 9th of March last year I remember Mrs. Dorey coming to my father's house to take a lodging for a lady who she said was coming out of the country about law business (I think it was about Thursday, the 9th of March, and between twelve and one o'clock)—she said she could not give a reference, but offered to pay a week in advance instead—she said she would come again in about two hours—I waited till the end of the two hours, and then went out—when I returned in the evening I found another person bad come into the lodging, and next morning I saw Mrs. Saunders at the lodging—she called herself Miss Slack—she remained in the lodging three weeks and a day, or a month and a day—she left on Friday, the 7th of April—Mrs. Dorey came for her, and they went away together in a cab—at the time Mrs. Saunders was occupying the lodging, Mrs. Dorey addressed her as Miss Slack—she came to see her about two or three times a week, in the evening—Mrs. Saunders wore light flaxen ringlets—I attended, to her bed-room, and while she was there I noticed there was dark hair in the comb—I did not notice the brush—Mrs. Saunders always wore a bonnet in-doors—Mrs. Dorey asked for Miss Slack when she came to see her—I did not at that time know Mrs. Dorey's name—Mrs. Saunders said if any body came hut her lawyer I was to say she did not live there—there was a dark gentleman called who she said was her lawyer—she told me so—he called about once a week, and sometimes he has been twice—I do not know him.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. You are quite sure it was on the 9th of March in the last year that she called? A. Yes, I first saw Mrs. Saunders after the 7th of April at the Mansion-house in March this year—I had not seen her for twelve months—she was then in custody—I knew she was in custody before I saw her—I saw no other lady in custody at that time—I had before that seen Mrs. Dorey in Oxford-street—I did not then know that Mrs. Dorey was the sister of Mrs. Saunders—I did not know it till lately—I
knew it when I went to the Mansion-house—I went to Mrs. Dorey's house with Forrester—I never saw Mrs. Saunders without a bonnet—she had light ringlets—they were false—I know that because there was dark hair in the comb, and they looked like false ringlets—they hung like false ringlets—I first made that statement to Mr. Forrester—that was before I had seen Mrs. Dorey—I am sure of that—it was about Nov.—I am sure I told Forrester that she had light flaxen ringlets, or false hair—I explained to him at the time that she had dark hair in the comb—I stated that to him before I went to see Mrs. Dorey—I do not know that Forrester searched for any light flaxen ringlets at Mrs. Dorey's—I did not hear him ask Mrs. Dorey for some white ringlets—I first discovered the black hair in the comb when I went up stairs into her bed-room—I cannot name the day—It was when she lived at our house—she had a hair brush—I did not wash it for her—I waited on her—it was on the dressing table—I did not notice any black hair about it—she only had one brush—Mrs. Dorey has dark hair—I never saw her in Mrs. Saunders's bed-room—she never went there to my knowledge—her bed-room was above the sitting-room—she was not a good deal there—she called two or three times a week—she never spent an evening with her—she stopped a very little time—I was mostly at home during the whole month—I was very seldom out—I was sometimes—I did not sometimes spend the evening out—I did the first night, but I was home at ten o'clock then—it was not my proposal that Mrs. Dorey should pay a week in advance—she told my mother who let the lodging—I did not hear her—she told me she could not give a reference—I have not travelled a good deal with Forrester—I have been out with him in search for the person—I had never seen this person before, whoever she was—I have always told the same story—I was examined before the Lord Mayor.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did she tell you what her lawyer's name was? A. No—she never said that his name was Jones—I sometimes opened the door to admit the person she said was her lawyer, and sometimes my mother did—I have since seen a person a great deal like him, but I could not swear to his face—that is the one (Fletcher)—I never saw Mrs. Saunders write.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. When you saw Mrs. Saunders at the Mansion-house where was she? A. In the room before she went into the justice-room—she walked past me—there were other persons there—I had no doubt of her when I saw her—I gave an account of the light ringlets before Mrs. Saunders was taken into custody—she was standing by herself at the Mansion-house—I pointed her out to Mr. Forrester before any question was asked about her—I did so as she walked past, to Mr. Weir—I am quite sure that she is the same person.
MR. STONE. Q. When she walked through was she in custody? A. She was—she had not flaxen ringlets on then.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. Was the woman in the habit of coming and sitting with you in the kitchen during the month she was staying there? A. Sometimes—I was in the habit of seeing her every day during the three weeks or month—I waited upon her at her meals as well as in her bed-room.
COURT. Q. Did not the flaxen ringlets make a strange alteration in her appearance? A. She looked rather different, but I took notice of her features—I am twenty-nine years old—I remember her face—she had rather high cheek bones, and her nose was rather broad at the bottom.
MARTHA NEVILLE . I am the mother of the last witness. I remember a person coming to take lodgings at my house—I believe on the 9th of March, but I will not be sure—it was the 8th or 9th—I am not sure which—I saw the person that came to take the lodging—I had some conversation with her
on the day the lodgings were taken, but very little—I afterwards saw that same person calling at the lodging occasionally, generally about every evening—I have sometimes opened the door to let her in, but it wat generally dusk—I recognise Mrs. Dorey as the person—I went with Forrester to a house in Oxford-street, lately, and there saw Mrs. Dorey—between seven and eight o'clock in the evening on which Mrs. Dorey took the lodging, the person for whom she took them came in a c ab with Mrs. Dorey—I asked Mrs. Dorey when she came first, for a reference, and she could not give one, but paid me one week in advance—she staid a very little while after bringing the other lady—that other woman continued to occupy the lodging three weeks and a day, or a month and a day—I do not know which—Mrs. Saunders is that person—I am positive of it—I knew her by the name of Miss Slack—Mrs. Dorey gave her that name—I called her Miss Slack, and no other name—Mrs. Dorey came to see her almost erery evening—a gentleman came to see her, who she said was her lawyer—I cannot be certain how often he has called—about two or three times a-week—I cannot exactly say.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. HOW long have, you let lodgings? A. I have been in the habit of letting lodgings above forty years—there is nothing unusual in paying a week's lodging in advance—it is often done—I never saw this lady without a bonnet while she was lodging with me—I never saw her before she came to occupy my lodging—she left in the beginning of April—I never saw her after she left my place until I saw her at the Mansion-house—my daughter was then with me—I did not learn from her that she had seen her before I saw her—I do not know in what part of the Mansion-house she was—she was in custody of an officer—she was brought up by the officer, and came through the room where the Lord Mayor was—I have not heard my daughter's description of her here—I have not been in Court—I expected to see the woman when I went to the Mansion-house—I waited for that purpose—my daughter and I were both together—I cannot see very well without spectacles—I constantly wear spectacles at home—I do not know how long ago it is that I went to see Mrs. Dorey—I went with my daughter and Mr. Weir to recognise Mrs. Dorey in Oxford street—Forrester was not with us—when Mrs. Dorey came to see Mrs. Saunders, she used to go into her room—she did not stop a great while—she was there most evenings.
MR. BODKIN. Q. Had you your spectacles on when you were at the Mansion-house? A. Yes—I was not in the room with the Lord Mayors but in a room through which people go, in order to get into his room—several persons had passed through before Mrs. Saunders—I did not notice any thing happening to my daughter when Mrs. Saunders came into the room—she cried a little—I do not know what for—it was when she saw Mrs. Saunders—my attention had not been drawn to several other females at the Mansion-house before I saw her.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did you ever see the lady, that was lodging at your house, write? A. No.
COURT. Q. Did she not wear hair of a totally different colour, to what she has on now? A. Yes—that did not alter my opinion of her; still the same person—I heard my daughter say something about her nose here, I believe—I was not in court two minutes—I have not the least doubt about Mrs. Saunders being the woman that was brought to me, under the name of Slack.
JOHN WILLS . I am a proctor in Doctors' Commons. I am acquainted with Mr. Barber—on the 16th of March, he called on me, in company with a female—she was a stranger to me—this entry, in my diary is my head-writing—the female went by the name of Emma Slack—I cannot recollect
whether that name was given by her or Mr. Barber—it was said in his hearing—the date at the top of this will is in my handwriting—I have very little recollection of the subject, but from what little 1 can recollect, the second female (L. Saunders) resembles her—one or the other gave me instructions to obtain probate of this will—I cannot say which—this will was produced to me to obtain probate—Emma Slack is the name mentioned in the will as executrix—I do not know whether the female used the word executrix, she signed the affidavit, and oath was administered to her as executrix—I am not certain whether she or Mr. Barber spoke—I obtained probate of the will—the effects were sworn under 5000l.—I received a check at the time, from Mr. Barber, for 80l., the stamp-duty—on the 22nd of March, I sent the probate to the office of Barber and Co.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. How long was Mr. Barber and the lady in your presence? A. About five minutes—I saw the lady next at the Mansion-house about a month ago—a great number of persons come to my office for the same purpose—I cannot charge my memory whether the lady spoke at all—I am sure Mr. Barber spoke—it is an ordinary thing for an executor or executrix to take no part in the transaction.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Was not Mr. Barber's conduct, as far as you witnessed it, perfectly consistent with that of an honourable attorney? A. Perfectly so—I implicitly believed the lady to be Miss Slack—I might have questioned her or Mr. Barber (I cannot say which) as to the time of death of the deceased, and such questions as that—that would be necessary to fill up the ordinary forms—I have known Mr. Barber I think, since some time in 1842—I have not done business for Barber and Bircham since this transaction—this was the last transaction—I had done business for them before—I sent the probate, directed to Barber and Bircham, to their office—I always regarded Mr. Barber as an upright and honourable man.
MR. ERIE. Q. You say when she was introduced, you implicitly believed her to be Miss Slack; did you trust entirely to Mr. Barber for that? A. Yes, I trusted entirely to Mr. Barber—I do not remember such a thing occurring to me, as an entire stranger coming to my office, and employing me to take out probate—they have always been introduced to me by some person I rely upon, who either brings or sends them—I have some reference—a party I know attends with the executor or executrix—I take them on their representation—a person might bring an executor to my office on the recommendation of a friend—I should take that friend's word.
Q. You have said Mr. Barber's conduct was consistent with that of an honourable and honest attorney; was there anything in this matter more than the mere employment of you to take out probate? A. No, nothing more—it was one of the most ordinary transactions that could take place.
JOHN WELDON . I am clerk in the Will-office in the Bank. I produce the Will-taking-in book—on the 27th of March, 1843, probate of the will of Ann Slack was left at the Bank—I cannot say by whom it was left—this letter addressed to the Governor of the Bank was left at the Bank, most likely the day following—I cannot say precisely the day, whether it was that day or the day following—it was left at the Will-office at the Bank—the probate was registered at the Bank on the 31st of March—this letter is an application for the re-transfer of the stock—the probate appears to have been returned on the same day, the 31st, to N. B. Bircham.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Is the signature of Mr. Bircham attached to that? A. Yes, to the re-delivery of the probate—I cannot tell who it was that lodged the probate on the 27th.
MR. CLARKSON. Q. DOCS that letter bear any memorandum of yours? A. Yes—it bears a copy of the register in the registry book.
MR. DONALD re-examined. I cannot identify whose writing the words "Francis-street, Tottenham Court. road," are—this "17th February," in figures, in the body of the letter, is Mr. Barber's handwriting—the other is in the handwriting of another party.
Cross-examined by MR. MILKINS. Q. Have you not precisely the same means of knowing Mr. Bircham's handwriting as Mr. Barber's? A. I have not paid so many of Mr. Bircham's checks as I have of Mr. Barber's—I have paid several of Mr. Bircham's; but it was seldom two or three checks of his were written alike, therefore I cannot identify his writing—I cannot identify this to be his—I cannot tell how many of his checks I have paid, certainly not scores—there may be a score—Barber and Bircham may have banked at the Bank of England two years—their checks have, generally speaking, been joint checks—I decline to identify this writing—I cannot identify it—I cannot say whether I believe it to be Mr. Bircham's writing—I cannot say that I have ever seen Mr. Barber write in my life.
MR. ERLE. Q. Does Mr. Barber write alike generally? A. Yes, and Mr. Bircham does not.
MB. WILKINS . Q. Have not the checks that have been paid, been the joint checks of Barber and Bircham on almost every occasion? A. Certainly not—I have paid Mr. Barber's checks separately, and have been in the habit of seeing his checks much more frequently than Mr. Bircham's—I have been a clerk in the Bank fifteen years, and am thirty-three years of age—I have never sworn to handwriting from having seen it less frequently than Mr. Bircham's—I have no belief about this handwriting—I have paid sums of money on the sight of Mr. Bircham's writing—I cannot recollect paying any checks written by Mr. Bircham in my life—I have paid on his signature jointly with Mr. Barber's—that is not all I have done with Mr. Barber's—I have paid them from the body—I can prove Mr. Bircham's signature, but not his writing—I can give an opinion on his signature, but not his writing, because, to my knowledge, I have never paid checks written by him.
(This document was as follows:—"To the Governor of the Bank of England. Sir,—There was lately standing in the name of Anne Slack, of Chelsea, spinster, the sum of 3500l., in the Three per Cent Consolidated Bank Annuities. From the period which has elapsed since any dividends have been received, it is possible that the amount may have been carried to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt. My aunt died on the 17th day of February last, leaving me her sole legatee and executrix. I have since proved the will, the probate whereof has been duly lodged in the Will-office of the Bank, and I shall therefore be glad to have the stock in question transferred into my name. Dated this 24th day of March, 1843. EMMA SLACK, sole legatee and executrix of the deceased Anne Slack, No. 7, Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road."
WILLIAM SMEE, ESQ ., re-examined. I consequence of this letter, I obtained this order, to re-transfer the sum of 3500l. from the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt, to Emma Slack, and to pay the arrears of dividends to Emma Slack, spinster, of No. 7, Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road, sole executrix of Ann Slack, deceased, of Smith-street, Chelsea, spinster—this is the order, and I accordingly made the re-transfer.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did you see the female who called herself Emma Slack write? A. No—the signature was not made in my presence—(The order was dated Sd April, 1843, by J. Heath, Esq., deputy governor, to transfer the said 3500l., with the unclaimed dividends, amounting to 1151l. 18s. 10d., to the said Emma Slack.)
7th April, 1843, a female was in company with him, who he represented as Emma Slack—he called her so to me—Mrs. Saunders is that female, to the best of my belief—I had an opportunity of seeing her features, I should say that is the party—I cannot say that I have any doubt about it—Mr. Barber said he came for the purpose of receiving the dividends on the stock that had been transferred from the account Ann Slack to the Commissioners, and which he expected to find re-transferred, and required me to pay the amount—I turned to the book, and having found the stock re-transferred, I gave him to understand that it would be necessary for him to be identified to me, and therefore the stock-broker, or some person that I was personally known to, should accompany him for the purpose of identification—Mr. Barber, I believe, went from the office, and fetched Mr. Philpot, the stock-broker—when he came, I required this document to be signed, (reads) "Paid, 7th April, 1843, Emma Slack, spinster, executrix of Ann Slack, spinster, deceased, known to me," and under those words Mr. Philpot has signed his name—I gave Mr. Barber a memorandum, which enabled the party signing as Emma Slack to receive the amount of the dividends, amounting to 1150l. odd, from the chief cashier—it was merely a memorandum that passes from one office to the other, and which enables him to get the order for 1150l. odd, unclaimed dividends due on Ann Slack's account.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. What time in the day was it when Mr. Barber, and the person of the name of Emma Slack, came to your office? I should say about one o'clock in the day—there was nothing particular out of the ordinary course of business which took place on that occasion, that I am aware of—it was the usual routine—the female may have been perhaps ten minutes or a quarter of an hour in my presence—I should say a quarter of an hour at least—she did not, that I recollect, make any observation to me—I do not think she made any observation—I do not remember hearing her speak at all—I saw her next at the Mansion-house—I went there for the purpose of seeing her—many other persons came to my office in the course of that year, to transact similar business—fifty or more, it may be 100—there was something that attracted my attention to her—she remained at a distance, and appeared somewhat lame, or leaning as it were on one side—she was standing up—she had a veil on, and was dressed in black, I think—there was a particular leaning of her form, as if labouring under some infirmity—I think the veil was partly down, not completely—I recollect that it was a black veil.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did you see Emma Slack write? A. No.
MR. ERLE. Q. Had you an opportunity of seeing her features? A. I had.
COURT. Q. Do you mean positively to swear she is the woman, or only that you believe it? A. I have no reason to doubt her being the party—I entertain no doubt in my own mind that she is the party that came.
THOMAS BROS . I am assistant to the chief cashier at the Bank of England. On the 7th of April last, this authority was brought to me to, give orders for the payment of some dividends, amounting to 1100l. odd—I signed the order—I did not get this from Mr. Noble—it is left in the Cashier's office, and when the parties come for it, it is brought to me and I sign it—it was brought to me, and I in the course of business there signed the order, on the 7th of April, 1843, for the payment of unclaimed dividends in the Long Annuities, amounting to 1151l. 18s. 10d. the amount due on the stock that had been transferred—that is to enable the party to take this to the cashiers of the Bank, at the Drawing-office, and receive the money—that would be the last thing before taking the money—when I give an order of that sort this book is produced, and I take an acknowledgment from the party of the receipt of that order—it is signed Emma Slack, spinster, sole executrix of the said Ann
Slack, spinster, deceased—seeing Emma Slack had signed it in the book was my authority for signing this order—the party who pays it does not come before me—there is a counter at the office, but I am a considerable distance from it.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Did you see the signature of Emma Slack written? A. No, I saw it was written.
COURT. Q. The order shows whose stock it is that is about to be paid, and who received it? A. Yes, it is the unclaimed dividends of Ann Slack paid to Emma.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. Where was this book signed? A. At the counter of the chief cashier's office, and from thence brought to me with this order.
ROBERT GUNSTON DOVER . I am a clerk in the Drawing-office of the Bank of England. This order to pay was brought to me on the 7th of April, I believe; I am not positive as to the date—I merely cancelled it, and passed it to the next clerk for payment—I saw that there were two persons who brought it, a man and a woman—I enquired how it should be paid, and I think the man referred me to the back of this document—(reads)—it is "Gold, 600l.; notes, four 100l. and one 100l.;"—"notes, twenty-five," seems to have been rubbed out, and the "one 100l." inserted in its stead—there remains 50l., but it does not appear in what notes that was paid—I merely marked it part bank-notes and part money—the man had a small bag to take the gold in; I told him that would not be sufficient to hold that quantity of gold he asked for—upon that he went away, and procured a, larger one—the next clerk paid it—I do not know who these persons were.
MR. DONALD re-examined. This writing in pencil, at the back of this order, "Gold, 600l., notes, four 100l.," and so on, I believe to be written by Mr. Barber.
WILLIAM OBADIAH WHEELER I am a clerk in the Drawing-office of the Bank of England—I have been acquainted with Mr. Barber's handwriting three or four years—I have paid checks of his—this pencil writing at the back of the order, to pay "Gold 600l., &c.," I should say is Mr. Barber's handwriting, I believe it to be so.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. DO you know Mr. Bircham's writing? A. I have seen it, I am not much acquainted with it—the handwriting at the bottom of this application to re-transfer, "Francis-street," I should certainly not recognise to be Mr. Bircham's—I will not say I do not believe it is (looking at a letter in reply to Mr. Offley's,) I cannot give an opinion on that letter—I am not so familiar with Mr. Bircham's handwriting as I am with Mr. Barber's—very few checks of Mr. Bircham's have come under my inspection—I cannot enumerate the number.
GEORGE WOLFE GOUGH . I am a clerk in the Drawing-office of the Bank of England. On the 7th of April, 1843, an order for 1150l. dividends was presented to me to be paid—I paid it according to the directions at the back of the paper—a man and woman presented it, and came for the money—I do not recollect who the man was—I believe Lydia Saunders, to the best of my belief, to be the person I paid it to.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. HOW do you know her name is Lydia Saunders? A. She has been pointed out to me as Lydia Saunders when I saw her at the Mansion-house—she was not pointed out to me as Lydia Saunders, I only knew her as Lydia Saunders after she was taken before the Lord Mayor—I cannot say who pointed her out to me as Lydia Saunders—it was not Mr. Weir I believe—it was one of the persons in the court—it was in general conversation—to the best of my recollection the parties came to me about half-past one or from that to a quarter to two o'clock—I think the man
spoke to me on the subject of the payment, and I think the man received the money—I believe the woman spoke to me—I think she did, to the best of my knowledge—she asked how the money should be received—I did not see that on the back until it was pointed out to me—I think it was the man pointed that out—I should say the woman did not tell me how it was to be paid, after the man pointed that out to me—I cannot now recollect what she said—no other persons came to me that day to draw money for unclaimed dividends—it is impossible to say how many came for other money—I see by my book forty other persons received money from me that day, but there was only one unclaimed dividend—the principal part of the payments of that day were to bankers' clerks and brokers—I cannot tell, with or without my book, whether I paid to any woman that day—I had never seen the person before—I bad never seen Lydia Saunders till I saw her the other day at the Mansion-house—she was not pointed out to me—she was afterwards—I did not give any evidence before the Lord Mayor—I did not know it was her until she was pointed out.
COURT. Q. Then you did not pick her out? A. I did pick her out—the question was asked me whether I could tell the woman?—I said, "I believe, to the best of my belief, that is the woman"—there was no name mentioned to me at that time—afterwards I was told it was Lydia Saunders—I believe she stood at the side of the bar—I think just by the door.
MR. STONE. Q. In custody and under charge? A. I do not think she was—of course she was in custody, but not in the dock—she was by the side of the door—I did not see an officer by the side of her—I was not examined before the Lord Mayor.
MR. ERLE. Q. When you paid the money did you have the order signed? A. It came to me already signed—it was not signed in my presence—it is not usual to sign it in the presence of the party paying.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. What makes you believe it was the man that pointed out the directions at the back of that paper? A. I believe it was—there was a man came with the woman, that is all I recollect—I would not swear to the man—the lady had not a white veil on—she had a fall, I believe black, over the bonnet, something like crape over the front of the bonnet—all the entries in this book are in my hand writing—I know the firm of Drewett and Co.—I have no doubt I paid them something on that day, if the entry is made there—I do not remember paying them anything on that day—I do not remember seeing anybody there from that firm on that day—I know Messrs. Goslings—I do not know Mr. Bircham's handwriting.
MR. ERLE. Q. Look at your memorandum, of April the 7th; do you remember your having made a payment to Drewetts when you see your memorandum? A. Yes, seeing this I remember making a payment upon that day—I keep an account of the payments that I make—I do not remember it, but I have not the least doubt I made the payment, because I see it here—it is usual to pay unclaimed dividends to a large amount, but not to pay a large amount in gold—my attention was called particularly to it by that—about twelve or fifteen months previous to this transaction there was a large payment in gold—that was unclaimed dividends.
MR. DONALD re-examined. This address, "Tottenham-court-road," under the signature of Emma Slack, I believe to be Mr. Barber's handwriting.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. Pray, who wrote these words, "Emma Slack?" A. I cannot say.
(Mr. Smee's certificate of the transfer of 3500l. Three per Cent. Consols, dated the 3rd of April, 1843, formerly standing in the name of Ann Slack, of Smith-street, spinster, from the account of the Commissioners of the National Debt, to Emma Slack, of Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road, spinster, was
here read, Also, the order to pay 1,151l. 18s. 10d. being the unclaimed dividends, on the same, on the back of which was written "Emma Slack, executrix, 7, Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road;" and, in pencil, "gold 600l.,notes 400l., 100l., 50l., 1l. 18s. 10d.; total, 1151l. 18s.10d")
Wednesday, April 17th.
THE QUEEN AGAINST BARBER AND OTHERS CONTINUED.
CAPTAIN FOSKETT re-examined by the COURT. I think nothing was said by myself or Mr. Baxter to Mr. Barber respecting the residence of Miss Slack—I had written to that effect—when I first called on Mr. Barber I announced myself as Captain Foskett, and as having received letters from him on the subject of Miss Slack's affairs—I do not remember whether anything was said about my residence, or where Miss Slack had ever resided—in the statement I made yesterday I may have stated an observation as made at the second interview which passed at the first; I cannot be quite certain as to that, I gave it as it occurred as well as I could—I do not remember at either conversation anything being said about where Miss Slack was living at that time, or had lived.
WILLIAM PHILPOT . I am a stock-broker. I have known the prisoner Fletcher about ten years, and have known Mr. Barber four or five years—I remember a few days before the 7th of April, seeing Mr. Fletcher in the Rotunda at the Bank—he said that Barber had got a good job for me—he did not tell me what it was—he did not say it was to transfer stock, but I understood so—I do not know that it was mentioned—on the 7th of April I saw Barber at my office in Tokenhouse-yard—there was-a lady in his company—I had never seen her before—she was introduced to me by Barber by the name of Emma Slack—it was the prisoner Lydia Saunders—Barber gave me directions to sell 3,500l. Consols, standing in the name of Emma Slack—I do not recollect Lydia Saunders making any observation—Barber told me Mr. Fletcher was expected to meet them—Barber, Mrs. Saunders, and I proceeded over to the Bank, to the Accountant-General's Office for taking unclaimed dividends on 3,500l. Consols—I applied for an order for those dividends, which was given to me—I signed to the identity of Emma Slack—it is usual for a person applying for dividends, to be identified by a broker—I signed these words, "known to me"—this is my signature to the identity—I then went with Barber and Emma Slack to the chief cashier—the order was presented by me, to the best of my belief—we then got an order to go to the drawing-office for the money—that order (looking at it) was given to Barber—I did not observe any pencil writing at the back of it—I left Barber and Mrs. Saunders in the drawing-office to take the money—I then went to put forward the transfer for the 3,500l. stock—I had arranged with Barber to meet again in the Rotunda—I sold the 3,500l. to Clement Smith, a stock-jobber, for 3,386l. 5s., which he paid to me in notes—I have a memorandum here of bank-stock, cash 3,382l., after deducting my commission, which was 4l.—I think I received three 1000l. notes—the others I do not recollect—after receiving that, I came to the Rotunda—on coming from the Drawing-office, before I went to sell, I saw Fletcher in the Rotunda, and observed to him that there was 1100l. in dividends that was being received—I then went and sold the stock, and came back to the Rotunda, and found Barber, Mrs. Saunders, and Fletcher there—I gave the money to Mr. Barber, I heard a conversation between the three, about changing a 1000l. note for
gold—I cannot say who spoke—they then left me, and went away together, where to I do not know—I went to my office—they were all three present when I gave the money to Barber—I gave him the same notes as I received from Clement Smith.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. How many times have you been to the Mansion-house when Fletcher was examined? A. But once—I may have been twice—I was communicating with the attorney for the prosecution while Fletcher was under examination—I was furnishing information to Mr. Freshfield, while Fletcher was being cross-examined by Mr. Clarkson—I swear Fletcher used the words, "a good job," and that the word "introduce" was used—he could introduce me to a good job, something to that purport—he had got me a good job—I mentioned that here to-day—that was the purport of what he said—I cannot exactly recollect whether I named that on my examination in chief—the words were to the purport that I should have a good job—none of the prisoners were present when I received the money from Clement Smith, that I recollect—I received it in the Bank, but not in the Rotunda—very probably in the Consol-office—I do not know in what office I received it.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. Where was it Fletcher told you something about a job? A. In the Rotunda—nobody was present—I saw Barber with the lady a fortnight or three weeks after—I had never seen her before—it was an ordinary transaction, which very frequently occurs—if a lady or gentleman comes and I know them, I identify them—nothing occurred different to what does on other occasions—they remained in my office about five minutes, while I was writing the instructions for the sale—I do not recollect speaking to her or she to me—I do not recollect seeing Lydia Saunders from that time till she was at the Mansion-house—I was aware that a person named Lydia Saunders had been taken up as the person representing Emma Slack—I do not recollect whether she was dressed the same then as on the 7th of April—I did not notice whether her veil was down when she came to make the transfer—she had a long veil—I saw it down when she came to the Bank—she was dressed in black at the Mansion-house, and had a black veil—it was not by the black veil that I knew her—Mr. Barber and Emma Slack walked over to the Bank, arm-in-arm, to the best of my recollection, and I before them—I did all the work at the Accountant-General's office—we went from there to the cashiers—I think Mr. Barber signed the paper there—I did not observe whether Emma Slack walked lame or not—I had no reason for noticing her—I thought it a straight-forward, ordinary transaction—there was nothing to direct my attention to it further than changing 1000l. note into gold—that drew my attention—I heard no reason assigned for that—it is not at all unusual to get gold for notes—I have identified a great many other persons since the 7th of April—I may have identified 300 persons without knowing them, being introduced by a person I did know.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. May I ask whether your memory is pretty good? A. I can recollect I dare say some things better than others—I will not swear one way or other whether Mr. Barber took any part in the conversation about changing the note—he must have heard it, because he was present—I recollect that, because it was at. the time I paid him the money—that was in the Rotunda—that is not generally speaking a scene of confusion—it has been so in former times, but it is not now—it was not dividend time—they were due, but not payable—there were very few people there—I remember that distinctly—I was not examined at the Mansion-house—I was present four or five times—I missed some—that is correct to the best of my belief—I do not remember any other transaction on the 7th of April, not
on the 6th or 8th—I consider that I have had three transactions with Barber—I may have had more—I will swear I have had more than one other transaction with him—there was one on the 29th of April, 1843—I sold 100l. reduced, for Mary Anderson, where Mr. Barber was the attorney—I have no recollection of his attending to that, but by my book—I recollect the transaction of the 3500l. without the book—I have a memorandum over the account, of the name of Barber—I cannot describe Mary Anderson—I have no recollection at all of her—on the 1st of June, 1842, I had a transaction with Mr. Barber—it was 12,010l. Consols, in the name of Thomas Hunt, sold—I have no recollection of that except from my book—the entries are my own—I do not recollect any other transaction with Barber.
Q. Were Barber and Bircham the attornies? A. I do not know—here is only Barber's name to the power.
MR. ERLE. Q. Did you see Emma Slack's features at all while you were there? A. Yes, and when she was at the Mansion-house, she was the person I had formed in my mind as Emma Slack—I saw her countenance when, she was at the Bank with Barber, her veil was up then—I cannot say at what part of the time that was—the only matter which drew my attention was the proposition to change the 1000l. note for gold—I never recollect a woman changing so large a note for gold—when I identify strangers I rely on an introduction from parties I have done business for—I relied on Mr. Barber in this case—I keep an account of transactions which take place—I should not know of selling stock on any other day for Barber except by my book—I know I have sold stock on other occasions, but cannot particularize the amount or day—I only knew Hunt from the introduction I had—Hunt was a stranger introduced to me—he was the seller—the amount was 12,010l.—Mr. Barber introduced him to me.
JAMES BALLARD . I am a clerk in the 3 per Cent Consols office at the Bank—I am the attesting witness to the transfer of 3500l.—I saw it executed by a person who signed this "Emma Slack"—I have no recollection of the transaction. (The transfer was here read from Emma Slack, of Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road, spinster, to Charles Smith Mortimer.)
MR. PHILPOT re-examined. This transfer is not signed by me, but by Mr. Matthews, who assists in my business.
CLEMENT SMITH . I am a stock jobber. On the 7th of April, 1843, I purchased 3500l. Consols, of Mr. Philpot, for 8382l.—I paid for it in Bank notes—I did not take the numbers of the notes, nor the description, but. I have not the least doubt it would be three of 1000l., and 382l. in small notes—I am the same as positive there was three 1000l. notes—I recollect taking four 1000l. notes, and to the best of my belief I paid three 1000l. notes—I received the four 1000l. notes from C. S. Mortimer—they were the only 1000l. notes I had that day—I paid the other note into Prescott's, the bankers, to the account of Henry Smith—I did not take the particulars of that note.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. What was Philpot's commission on the sale? A. I have nothing to do with that—I paid him 3382l.—the stock came to 3386l. 5s. but I had another transaction with him the same day of 125l. 3 1/2 per Cent.—I am quite positive as to the number of 1000l. notes I had that day—I cannot exactly recollect the number or amount of the other notes—I only mark the notes—to the best of my belief I had three notes of 1000l.—I have not the least idea how many I had that week, nor on any day, except on the 7th of April, in that week, unless I had my memorandums
with me—I know the day of the week, because I have it before me—my attention was first called to this about six weeks or two months ago—I was not examined before the Lord Mayor.
COURT. Q. Is it an unusual thing for you to have so large an amount of Bank notes as thousands? A. Certainly not—I am in the habit of having 5000l. or 10,000l. about me—I cannot remember unless I have my account with me—1000l. notes frequently pass through my hands every week.
MR. ERLE. Q. When your attention was drawn to this five or six weeks ago, did you examine your accounts and memorandums? A. I did, and ascertained that I had only four 1000l. notes on the 7th of April, and I had them from Charles Smith Mortimer—I bought the stock of Philpot, and it was transferred to Mr. Mortimer.
COURT. Q. What accounts are you alluding to, when you say in reference to them you had four 1000l. notes on the 7th of April, and four only? A. I allude to my own accounts.
MR. ERLE. Q. When your attention was drawn to this inquiry, did yon examine your books and papers to see if you had more than four 1000l. notes on the 7th of April? A. Yes—I have the account before me—I had not any so large as 1000l., except the four I had from Mortimer—this is the original paper made on that day—I have kept it since—I have no description of the notes, but I remember the circumstance of going to Mortimer, and sending to him for these notes—after I looked at the account I remembered the circumstance—I am the same as positive that I received four 1000l. notes from him—I will swear it, to the best of my belief—I remember having four 1000l. notes of Mr. Mortimer.
CHARLES SMITH MORTIMER . I am a member of the Stock Exchange. My attention has been called to the 7th of April, 1843—on that day I lent Clement Smith 3000l.—I paid him notes to the amount of 4000l.—I know there were four notes of 1000l. each—I received two of the 1000l. notes from Mr. Brewer, and two from White—I have not the numbers.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Does not a great deal of money pass through your hands? A. Yes—I always put down in my book if notes are otherwise than 1000l.—I know it, because I have no entry that they were the 1000l.—I do not put down 1000l.—I put down the gross amount then—(producing his memorandum.)
Q. Your memorandum says, "Mr. Brewer, 2000.; White, 2000.; Bank, 4000."? A. Yes—that shows me they were four of 1000l. each—I always make a memorandum when they are otherwise than thousands—this entry of 600l. were paid in a check, and this 1452l. was paid with a check—I received the money from Brewer on the 7th of April—the name "Brewer" is written over the line—that was done about a month ago—the whole memorandum, except that, was made at that time, which was written since this inquiry—I ought to have done it at the time—I did it merely to correct my book—I never thought of looking at the book till this inquiry—I received the other two 1000l. notes the same day—there is a memorandum of that.
EDWIN JOHN BREWER . I am a member of the Stock Exchange. My attention has been called to the 7th of April, 1843—on that day I sold 2300l. Consols to Edward Pearce, for which I received two 1000l. Bank notes, Nos. 91295 and 91767, and sundry smaller notes to make up the total—I have not the dates of the notes—I received them that day—I regret to say there is a mistake in the number of one of the notes—I have seen a note which, I believe, passed through my hands, from marks on it, but I have put one figure before another—(looking at a 1000l. note, No. 92195)—I should say this is one of the notes I had—there is "Henry Mortimer" on it, and "E. P.," which I think are Mr. Pearce's initials, his own writing; but I have put the 1 before the 2 in
the hurry of business—I gave those two notes to Charles Smith Mortimer, of the Stock Exchange, for their check of 2000l.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. What memorandums are those you have been looking at? A. An abstract of my book, devoid of technicalities—it is made from my book, which is also here—I took the numbers of the notes received of Pearce at the time they were in my possession, but not as regards giving them to Mortimer—I was asked some three months since by Mr. Mortimer whether I had given them to him—I looked at the memorandum-book, and saw I had made them up, as I call it, to pay into my banker's—I went to my banker's to see whether a check drawn by Mortimer was paid that day—there is nomemorandum made about that time which shows that I paid them to Mortimer—I have a recollection of it—I did pay them to him—I have since asked Jones Loyd whether I paid in a check that day from Mortimer—I certainly had doubts whether I did pay these notes on that particular day.
Q. Are you not speaking as to your recollection of having paid these notes on that day from what you have ascertained from people since? A. I have the numbers down, and there is Pearce's initials, and Mr. Mortimer's name, on the notes—I paid Mortimer that day two 1000l. notes for their check, and the numbers agree.
Q. Are you not speaking of what you paid that day from information you have since acquired? A. Yes—I put the name of the person I paid to here long subsequent to the 7th of April—I put the date here the day I paid it—the memorandum was made from information I received long after the 7th of April—the note before me is the one which does not agree in the number—there is nothing in this one from which I will swear it was in my possession on the 7th of April—I would rather not swear to it, the number being wrong.
MR. ERLE. Q. Turn to the entry you made at the time, 7th of April; can you say whether you had two 1000l. notes? A. I had—I entered the name of the person I received them from—I have the initials of E. Pearce on it—I think this "E. P." is his writing—I believe the "E. P.," on the note, No. 92195, to be Pearce's writing—I did not observe that on them, when in my possession.
MR. MORTIMER re-examined. The name of Mortimer, on these notes, it not the writing of myself or brother, it looks like Smith's writing.
THOMAS PHILLIPS . I am a clerk in the Accountant's-office at the Bank of England. I have searched the Bank books to ascertain whether such a 1000l. note as No. 91295 was in circulation on the 7th of April, 1848—it was not in circulation—it was paid in on the 4th of April.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. How do you ascertain that it was paid in on the 4th of April? A. By our ledger—it would be received by a clerk, and posted in the proper office—I never remember a mistake in the Bank books as to the day a note came in—there have been mistakes as to the numbers of notes, but they are rectified the same day.
JOHN MILLER . I am a pay clerk in the Bank of England. On the 8th of April I exchanged a lot of Bank notes, to the value of 1580l., for gold—I have my book here—the clerk who took the notes from me comes from another office—they are marked by the inspector—I do not put a mark on them.
HENRY VENDISH LEIGHTON . I am a clerk in the Bank. On the 8th of April I have entered some notes to the amount of 1530l. as being cashed—I received them from John Miller—among them was one for 1000l.—I did not take the number or date—I entered the name at the back, which was Slack—if a bundle of notes are brought to me, I enter the numbers of the first and last note, not the intermediate ones—the intermediate ones are identified by a number printed on them—the No. 401 is printed on these—this 1000l. note, No. 91767, was in the bundle I took that day—I know it by a mark on the outside—I received them from Miller; be cashed them, and took an account of them—the number is entered in my book—it was paid for gold—Miller pays nothing but gold.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. How many are there besides Miller in that department? A. I do not know; a great many—I was never so employed.
COURT. Q. Are you enabled to say confidently that the bundle of notes for 1530l. came from Miller? A. Quite confident—(the indorsement on the bundle of notes was, "Miss Slack, Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road.")
MR. STONE. Q. Did you observe this address on it when delivered to you? A. Yes; I have written that in the book against it—it is the last note.
JOSEPH DERMER . I am a clerk in the Tellers' office. On the 10th of April I exchanged for gold a 1000l. note in the name of Slack—I do not take the number or date, but hand the notes forward—my entry is, "Slack, 1000l.," for which I gave 500 sovereigns and a ticket for a 500l. note—we require a name to be put on a note before it is paid, and I put that name in the book—the entry shows there was such a payment made to a person named E. Slack.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. Who did you pay it to? A. I do not know—the book does not tell whether it was man or woman.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. The entry is "Slack" alone? A. Yes—on the ticket for the note is "E. Slack"—it is a copy from the note—the name was on the note before it was brought to me—that was on the note for which I gave 500 sovereigns and a ticket for a 500l. note.
ROBERT HYETT . I am a clerk in the Bank. On the 10th of April I received 1000l. from Dermer, which he had cashed for 500 sovereigns and a 5002. note—I took down the number of the note which I got from Dermer—it was 92195, dated the 1st of Feb.
WILLIAM TAYLOR . I am assistant pay clerk in the Bank of England. On the 10th of April, 1843, 1 had a ticket for a 500l. notes in the name of E. Slack, drawn by Dermer—the number of the note I gave for it was 41856, dated the 2nd of Jan., 1843—I received the ticket, entered, and posted it—my partner gave the note.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. What quantity was it? A. I cannot say how many.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. IS your department confined exclusively
to giving gold? A. Gold and silver—I may sometimes give as much as 5000l. or 10,000l. in gold in one lot to a banker—a great many country people take gold in various amounts.
EDWARD GRATTAN . I am a clerk in the Southwark branch of the London and Westminster Bank. I have known Fletcher about four years—he keeps an account there—I am well acquainted with his writing—the name, "Emma Slack, 7, Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road," on this 500l. note, is his writing; also, the same name and address on this 1000l. note, No. 92195; and on this 1000l. note, No. 91492—on the 10th of April, 1843, 500l. in gold was paid in by Fletcher in person to the credit of his deposit account—on the 18th of April, 1843, 480l. in gold, and 20l. in notes, making 500l., was paid in by Fletcher in person, and placed to his account—on the 13th of April, 1843, 1000l. in gold was paid in to his credit, on his deposit account, by Fletcher in person.
FREDERICK NELSON re-examined. I received the note from Miller and handed it to Vansommer—I received a parcel of notes from the witness and handed the whole to Vansommer—they were all paid notes—I cannot give the numbers.
MR. GREAVES to MR. GRATTAN. Q. How long has Fletcher kept an account with you? A. Since Dec. 1838.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. I believe he kept a very respectable account? A. He did not keep a large account—he kept a respectable one. (Several letters were here put into the witness's hands, some of which he identified as Fletcher's handwriting, but none of them were read.)
GEORGE GORSUCH . I am at present shopman in the employ of Messrs. Halling, Pearce, and Stone. On the 29th March, 1843, I went into the employ of Mr. and Mrs. Dorey, in Oxford-street, and continued there three weeks—Mr. Dorey's name is Josiah, and he is the husband of the prisoner—on Friday, the 7th April, 1843, Lydia Saunders, who is Mrs. Dorey's sister, came to the house in a cab in company of Mrs. Dorey, towards the latter part of the day—I believe after five o'clock—she had on a blue and black cloth check cloak, and a black velvet bonnet—the cloak was not taken off in my presence—she staid till the following Monday—the morning after she arrived Mr. Dorey showed me a 1000l. note in the shop, over the counter, as a curiosity not seen every day—Mrs. Dorey and Mrs. Saunders were not present—shortly after Mr. Dorey had shown me the note, Mrs. Saunders came into the shop from up stairs, passed through it, and went in an omnibus towards the City—it was in the early part of the morning—I should say ten, or it might be eleven o'clock—I saw her take the omnibus—she returned, it might be two hours afterwards—I really cannot say—I noticed that she brought back with her what I considered to be a canvas bag, which I judged from the sound contained gold—I should say about the space containing a thousand sovereigns, from what I have seen in-silver—after Mrs. Saunders came back she looked out several articles, I believe to take away—there was a particular dress which she mentioned was for her daughter—it was a striped silk—a shawl and some other articles were selected at the same time—I heard Mrs. Saunders tell Mr. Dorey that she was going to Bristol on the Monday—that was in the shop before she left—during the time I was in Mrs. Dorey's employ I had an opportunity of seeing her write, and becoming acquainted with her handwriting—I believe the name "Miss Slack, 7, Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road" on this note No. 91767, to be the handwriting of
Mrs. Dorey—(looking at a gown produced by Daniel Forrester)—this is the same pattern and colour as was purchased by Mrs. Saunders for her daughter—at that time there might have been one thousand yards of it.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. Did you reside in the house with Mr. Dorey? A. Yes, I lived with him—I had never seen Mrs. Saunders before the 7th of April—she was not introduced to me at the time she came into the house—she was, the first time I went into the house, from the shop, the same day she came, after five o'clock, she was introduced to me as Mrs. Dorey's sister from Bristol—Mr. Dorey had informed me before she came to the house that Mrs. Dorey's sister was coming to see them from Bristol—I am not aware how long Mr. Dorey had been married—I believe from his statement about a month or six weeks—I was not with him at the time he was married—Mrs. Saunders did not take off her bonnet in the shop—I noticed afterwards that she was dressed in black—she was in black during the whole time she was there—I noticed a something, I thought an imperfection in her walk—that she did not walk quite firm—it might be she had corns—I did not breakfast with her on the next morning—I saw her on the 8th—I dined with her—she was there, as far as I could judge, on a visit to her sister—I did not breakfast or dine with her on the Monday—it is the custom in small houses of that description for the assistants to dine at a separate table from the employers—that was the custom there—I saw her on the Monday morning before twelve—it might be half-past nine, ten, eleven, or half-past eleven—I believe it to be soon after nine—I generally got into the shop rather before eight—I am not aware that I saw her on the Saturday before I saw her pass through the shop—that was in less than half an hour after Mr. Dorey showed me the note—he attended in the shop himself—I cannot recollect whether Mrs. Dorey went out that day—I saw her in the shop on the Saturday, but I cannot recollect whether she went out—Mrs. Saunders got into the omnibus at the door—I did not hear what she said—she only got into the omnibus and went away—she returned in less than two hours—I cannot state the time—I have no recollection whether I saw Mrs. Dorey from the time Mrs. Saunders left until she returned—Mrs. Saunders merely passed through the shop on her return—I had an opportunity of looking at the bag in her hand as she passed—I cannot say whether she had a cloak on—I believe she had—I was behind the counter—I cannot say what I was about—I was perfectly disengaged—she merely walked straight through—I cannot say which hand the bag was in—I left Mr. Dorey of my own accord because it did not answer my expectations—it does not at all concern this case—I had no misunderstanding or dispute with Mr. or Mrs. Dorey—it was on the Saturday that Mrs. Saunders looked out some articles in the shop—I am not aware whether it was before or after she went out—I believe it was after—I swear I was not dismissed from the service—I left on the 19th April, 1843—I cannot recollect what passed that induced me to go—goods were looked out three or four times while Mrs. Saunders was there—they were looked out also on the Monday—I understood she was to leave on the Monday by the two o'clock train—I saw her leave about one, or half-past—it was about the middle of the day—I never saw any bag in her possession except at the time she passed through the shop.
MR. ERLE. Q. Did you see her at all except in the shop, and when you were dining with her? A. Yes, I saw her in the shop, and when I was dining with her—she lived up stairs with the family—when she came back with the bag she went up stairs to the apartment of the family—I judged the bag to be a canvas one—I saw it—it was the colour of a canvas bag, and the sound I judged to be gold—I repeatedly saw her while she was in the house, conversed with her at times, and became acquainted with her.
MR. STONE. Q. Might it not have been a carpet bag the had? A. Oh no, I am sure of that—I should think it was about that size (about a foot), the shape a bag generally is—bags with gold are not generally very deep—I have no recollection of the depth, more than I thought it was a bag containing gold of the usual size, such as a cash-bag—I have seen bags given at bankers'—I believe it was not yellow—it was a lighter colour—I cannot swear to the colour.
MR. ERLE. Q. Have you seen such bags as that for money? A. I have.
ELIZA ROSSER . I am now living as servant with Mr. Taplin, a solicitor—I have been living with him little more than ten months—before that I was living with Mr. and Mrs. Saunders—they carried on business as fishmongers at Bristol—I think about eight days elapsed between the time of my leaving Mr. Saunders and going to Mr. Taplin's—I left Mr. Saunders because I thought I could better myself—they gave me a month's-warning—before Mrs. Saunders gave me warning she had been in London for about two months—I should suppose she gave me warning about a week after she came back—I cannot exactly say—she brought back with her three silk dresses—they were not made up (looking at the silk dress produced by Forrester)—I cannot say that is the silk dress—I think that has been washed—she brought home something similar to this, but I cannot say—it was such a pattern as this appears to be—I cannot speak to it—she brought three dresses, for herself and two daughters—one of those daughters was living with Bucknell and Spark, drapers, at College-green, Bristol—during the time Mrs. Saunders was in town Mr. Saunders left Bristol for a few days—he went at the latter part of the week, and came back at the beginning of the next week—Mrs. Saunders returned to Bristol about a week after that time—he came back by himself a week before her—I never saw Mrs. Dorey but once—she was at Bristol for about six weeks, staying with Mrs. Saunders—that was, I should say, a month before Mrs. Saunders went to London—I cannot say exactly.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. Are they not carrying on business in a very large way in Bristol as fish dealers? A. Yes, one of the largest fish shops in Bristol—Mr. Saunders was not frequently from home while I was there—I cannot say how often he was away—he might corns to London and stay one night and return next day, once in a month or six weeks—he has not been away for a month or three weeks to my knowledge—while Mrs. Saunders was away he was at home attending to the business, during the whole of that two months, except that short time—I do not know whether Mrs. Dorey was married when she was at Bristol—she was called Mrs. Dorey, but I do not know whether she was so or not.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Do you know Mr. Saunders's writing? A. No, I have seen him write, but I never took any notice of it, and I should not know it again—I cannot write, or read writing—I do not know whether Mrs. Saunders was at Bath in Jan.—I do not know of her going to Bath—she was not away from home except when she went to London—I do not recollect it—I will not swear it—Mrs. Saunders had a blue and black plaid cloak made, to go to London in—I do not know in what month she went away to go to London—it was in the winter season—Mrs. Dorey had left before that—I cannot say that I ever saw Fletcher there—I do not know him—as far as I know I have never seen him.
EDWARD GILL . I am a clerk in the bank of Messrs. Stuckey and Co., of Bristol. The prisoner William Saunders had an account there—it was opened in Sept., 1842—he has an account with us now—since he opened it he has frequently been in the habit of bringing money to pay in to his account—be
has generally brought cash, notes, and gold—he once brought a large quantity of gold—that was on the 5th of Sept., 1843, he brought 1000 sovereigns—I said to him on that occasion, "Really, Mr. Saunders, it appears as if there was a mint in your house"—I am not aware that he made any reply—he had before that brought in thirty or forty sovereigns at a time, perhaps less, and sometimes more, at different times during the summer—I noticed that some of them were new, because I made the observation at the time that I wished other customers brought in such nice gold as he did—I apply that, not to the 1000l., but to former credits—to the best of my belief all the 1000 sovereigns paid in on the 5th of Sept. were new.
Cross-examined by MR. PHINN. Q. Were you at the counter yourself receiving the money? A. I was the cashier—the whole amount paid in that day was 1040l. 11s. 6d., of which 1000l. was in sovereigns—I am quite sure—I made the entry at the time—I have it here—it is in my handwriting.
Cross-examined by MR. GREAVES. Q. Just look at that note (1000l., No. 92195,) do you know that handwriting at the top? A. Yes—I do not know Fletcher's handwriting—I should say this is Mr. Saunders's handwriting—I believe it is—I should say the handwriting on this 500l. note, No. 41856, is written by the same person—I believe the endorsement on this note No. 91492 is written by the same party—I am well acquainted with Mr. Saunders's handwriting by seeing his checks.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE. Q. Did you ever see him write in your life? A. Yes, credit tickets—I have never seen him write checks—(looking at the notes again)—these do resemble Saunders's handwriting—I saw them in Bristol—they were shown to me by Mr. Weir—I do not exactly recollect the date—I told him I believed them to be Mr. Saunders's writing—I do not recollect the reply he made.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Look at this writing, without turning it over, especially these two words, "Miss Slack," and tell me whose writing you believe it to be? A. Looking at it indiscriminately I should say it was Mr. Saunders's writing—I do not know Mrs. Saunders's writing.
MR. ERLE. Q. YOU saw Mr. Weir at Bristol, was that at the time an examination was going on about some notes that had been obtained? A. Yes—Mr. Weir showed me certain notes, and asked me if I knew the writing—the name written on the top I believed to be Saunders's writing on comparing it with some of Mr. Saunders's—(looking at some others)—I believe this to be Mr. Saunders's writing—I did not know what case Mr. Weir was inquiring about—I know I saw a letter signed by Hunt—the name Thomas Hunt on these notes I believe is in Saunders's writing—this is the letter I saw—it is signed Thomas Hunt—I believe the notes Mr. Weir showed me then had "Thomas Hunt" endorsed on them, those were the notes I believed to be endorsed in the handwriting of Saunders, and these I believe are in the handwriting of Saunders, judging from his other writing—I have seen these notes endorsed Emma Slack before, and I believe it is William Saunders's writing, by the resemblance to his handwriting—there are two for 1000l., and one for 500l.
DANIEL FORRESTER . I was first employed in this case in respect of Mrs. Dorey—I went with Miss Neville to Oxford-street about the 4th or 5th of Jan.—I went to Bristol to see for Mrs. Saunders—I did not find her there—I understood she was not there—I did not apprehend her—I got this dress from the daughter at the house of Bucknell and Spark, linen-drapers, College-green, where she was living—she gave it me—I had been there before, and asked for Miss Saunders, and she had spoken to me on a previous occasion—they
stated she was up stairs, and she was fetched down—I went to Mr. Barber's office, and among other things found this certificate of the death of Ann Slack on a table there—it was handed to me by Mr. Bircham with a parcel of other papers—I cannot say exactly that I saw it on the table, but it was passed to me with other papers—no doubt they were on the table—I went to Bristol again in Feb.—I made all the search I could there, and in the neighbourhood to find the Saunders's, but could not find them or hear of their having been there for some time—my earliest visit was in Jan.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. You found, I believe, a great many papers at Mr. Barber's office? A. Yes—Mr. Barber had not been in custody perhaps an hour when I went there—I left a great many papers behind—all the papers I produce were found in his office—the papers connected with Slack's transactions were tied up together, with an inscription on the back, stating, that they referred to Slack—I think this paper, "Re Slack, probate of the will of Ann Slack, spinster, deceased," was the outside one—I do not know Mr. Bircham's writing—I had been set to watch Mr. Barber's movements for some time before I went to his office—I cannot charge my memory with the length of time—I think it might have been the middle of Nov., to the best of my recollection—he was arrested on the 9th of Dec.—I had seen him go to his office during that time, I will not say most days—I was not there every day myself—I think I did not see him come to his office at the most six times—I was not there always of a morning, I sent some one else—that person is not here—I took away from Mr. Barber's office his diary of 1843—I handed it to Mr. Freshfield, by Mr. Barber's wish—I forget now, exactly, whether it was Mr. Giddy or Mr. Barber—Mr. Giddy was the solicitor for Mr. Barber, in the first instance, I believe—I did not hand to Mr. Freshfield all the papers I seized—I handed some to Mr. Weir since I have been here—yesterday I think it was—I do not know of any application being made to me to let Mr. Barber have copies of those papers—there had been an application on the part of Mr. Giddy, to the best of my belief, at the beginning, to inspect those papers, which he did, and saw them—no application has been made to me for copies of those papers, nor in my hearing—I have not seen Mr. Barber with a tearful eye ask for them—I do not recollect that I ever heard him ask for them—I gave a great many papers up to Mr. Giddy, which I took to the Compter to Mr. Barber, and to the best of my recollection, I offered them to Mr. Barber, and he refused to take them—I then went into the other office, and gave them to Mr. Giddy—I think I have had about ten papers of Mr. Barber's in my possession—Mr. Freshfield and Mr. Weir knew I had them—they have inspected them—I have been to Mr. Freshfield's office a great many times during the last month—I had not those papers in my possession when I went there—I kept some of them at the Mansion-house, and one relating to Slack's matter I kept at home—I gave it up yesterday—I took from Mr. Barber's person his pocket-book, keys, and everything he had, and they were returned to him shortly after—they were kept for several days—the keys enabled me to open drawers at Mr. Barber's—I do not recollect a desk—I ransacked every place in the office that was accessible—I ransacked his cash-box—I have been making every possible inquiry about Mr. Barber, wherever I could—I do not think I went to his residence in Nelson-square—I do not know whether I did or not—I cannot charge my memory, whether I went to the door, but I never went into the place to search it.
MR. ERLE. Q. As to this searching the drawers and cash-box, was the partner, Mr. Bircham, by all the time you did that? A. Yes, he was there the whole time I searched—there was also another person in the office, but
whether he was a clerk or not, I do not know—I think his name was Price—it is usual to search persons apprehended for felony, and take articles from them—the paper I kept at home was this certificate—the papers I handed to Mr. Freshfield were what either Mr. Barber or Mr. Giddy desired me to hand for their inspection—I know Mr. Giddy inspected the papers I had, which I produced here yesterday—as far as I know, he inspected them—he has applied for no copies to me—I gave up to Mr. Barber and Mr. Giddy those which they had not requested me to hand to Mr. Freshfield—I think it was within a week after Mr. Barber was apprehended—I do not exactly recollect the date.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Where did you get that blue cheek cloak? A. From the house of Mrs. Dorey.
MR. ERLE. Q. Did you see when Mrs. Dorey was down on a visit there whether she had a cloak with her? A. No, Mrs. Dorey had a cloak made up of the same pattern.
JOHN FORRESTER . I was employed to endeavour to apprehend the Saunder's—I did not find them at Bristol—my brother had been there—I arrived in Edinburgh on the 11th of March, and on the 13th I took Mr. Saunders into custody at Edinburgh; and on the 20th I took Mrs. Saunders also at Edinburgh—Mr. Saunders came to a shop, and was apprehended in the street, not by me—I gave instructions that if he came there he should be taken into custody—I was not present when Mrs. Saunders was taken—I was in Edinburgh at the time—I saw them there—I saw him on the 13th, and her on the 20th, and took them into custody.
JAMES WILLIAM FRESHFIELD , Esq. I am the solicitor to the Bank. In consequence of the inquiry about Ann Slack's will, on the 15th of Nov. I called on the prisoner Barber—I told him that I came from the Bank—I made this memorandum at the time.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Do you mean you made it in Mr. Barber's presence? A. No, immediately after my return home.
MR. ERLE. Q. You said you came from the Bank of England? A. Yes, in reference to a sum of stock which had been transferred from the name of Miss Ann Slack, under a will which appeared to have been proved by Mr. Barber, and which was irregular—he said that he remembered the transaction—(I am giving it now as written)—that Miss Slack came to him with the will, which was quite regular; that the property was mentioned in the will; that she stated that her aunt had died about six weeks before; that he got the will proved, and got her the money; which was all that he knew of the business—I asked him who the lady was—(I meant the Miss Slack, living)—he said she resided in some street out of Holborn; that she was a most respectable person, and he had no doubt the transaction was all right—I asked him if she was introduced, and by whom—he said yes, he had no doubt she was, but he did not recollect by whom; that he would endeavour to recall the fact, but to him it was a mere matter of business, and he knew nothing more of it—I told him that was quite inconsistent with the fact that he had himself been in communication with Captain Foskett some months before the alleged death of Miss Ann Slack, respecting this very property—he said at first that he had certainly had some communication with Captain Foskett, but not, he thought, respecting this property—he could not recollect—he spoke hesitatingly—I told him that his letters were distinctly respecting a property of Miss Ann
Slack—after some hesitation, he said it might be to, that be would not deny it, but that it was a mere matter of business, and he did not feel authorized in disclosing the affairs of his clients—I told him that I did not wish him to tell me more than he chose; that I should not at all press him, but it was necessary I should apprize him that a fraud and forgery had been committed, and that he was gravely implicated in the transaction, by the fact that he had been inquiring and negociating respecting this very property, six months before the alleged death of Miss Ann Slack, and before the right of his client accrued; and that I desired to knew under what circumstances he had so negociated—he said he supposed he could tell, and he would endeavour to recollect—that Miss Slack was a most respectable woman, and that he had no doubt it was all right—I told him that was beside the question, which was, how he came to be interfering six months before he saw her—he said that he did not know that he could tell, or ought to tell, but he would refresh his memory, and he wished me to look at his books, that I might see it was only a matter of business with him—he then produced the probate his ledger, and an account-book, which he opened—there was an entry in the ledger of 90l. odd for the proctor's bill, and 15l., odd for hit attendance—he laid that was all he got out of the transaction, that his bill, as cast, amounted to 18l. odd, and Miss Slack made it 15l.—the book showed the produce of the stock, 4500l. odd on one side, and was signed "Emma Slack"—she had signed his book—I do not remember which of the books that was in—the entry was only signed in one, at recognising or proving the account—I then told him that was not the question, upon which he said he would endeavour to refresh his memory, and if I would call on a future occasion, he would let me know the result—I told him that his character was implicated, that I desired to give him an opportunity to explain if he pleased, but that did not intend to press him at all—that I should report the case to the Treasury, who. would no doubt prosecute the case, and that if he chose to tend me an explanation I would report that also, but that I could not delay.
COURT. Q. Have you any doubt that matter to that effect did pass between you? have you a recollection of it, independent of the paper? A. I have a distinct recollection of the whole of it without the paper, but I, of course, speak with more particularity from having taken it down at the moment.
MR. ERLE. Q. From that time till after Mr. Barber was apprehended, did he ever communicate to you that Fletcher had introduced Mitt Slack? A. He did not—I had no communication from him whatever, from that moment till he was apprehended.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Put that paper aside, and repeat to the Jury what you have said? A. His Lordship will probably allow me to refer to my notes—I have no doubt I could give you a correct account of the transaction without the paper, but there would be variances in words, and it was for that express object I took it down on paper.
COURT. Q. Are you enabled to give an account? A. I am enabled to give an account of the transaction as it is stated here—I could give the account without this paper, but there would undoubtedly be variances of words, and variances of expressions.
MR. WILKINS. Q. That it exactly what I want A. I took this down at the time correctly—I put it down after my return home, about an hour after it happened—I decline to state what took place without the paper, unless you wish me—I swear the conversation took place in the order in which I have read it—Mr. Barber expressed an angry feeling—it hardly amounted to an angry feeling, but he said, "I hardly understand in what character you put these questions"—he spoke in a mild tone of voice.
COURT. Q. Y ou did not mention that, I think? A. No, I did not—it was then I told him what is here—he said that on the occasion of my pressing him with the fact that he had been negociating on the subject of this property six months before his client had come to him—it was in reference to that—I put that point strongly.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Pray had you forgotten that when you made that memorandum? A. I had not—I have stated the substance of what passed. Q. Was it wilfully omitted, yes or no? A. It was wilfully omitted—he did not express indignation more than once—I do not think he said he must decline furnishing me with the name of his informant for the present—I will swear he did not—he did not say, "I think at the present time I ought not to mention his name"—I swear he said nothing of the kind—I have a sufficient recollection of the whole of the conversation to swear he did not say that.
Q. Why then decline to tell what did take place without your paper? A. Because having taken down what did pass, for the purpose of accuracy, I decline to run the risk of stating it inaccurately—I read it over at the time once or twice, and subsequently I have not read it over at all, until yesterday, I think—I have probably read it over three or four times altogether—I will not swear I have not read it over six times altogether—I had occasion to explain it to a great number of persons immediately after the occurrence, and I may have read it over six times—I was not required to attend at the Mansion-house, the business devolved on my brother—I did not think it necessary—I have never given this information on oath before to-day—the notes I have read were the very notes I made (handing them to Mr. Wilkins)—this "Mr. James F.'s memoranda" is Mr. Weir's writing, it has been put among the papers relating to this prosecution—Mr. Barber did not show me his diary—I will swear he did not offer to do so—Mr. Weir is our clerk—I did not instruct Forrester to watch Mr. Barber's office, nor give instructions for it—I think I never heard of it—I am not conscious of having heard of the fact—I certainly gave no such instructions, and am not aware that such instructions were given——it was about three weeks after this that Mr. Barber was apprehended—Mr. Barber said if I would call in three or four days he should be happy to give me information—I did not call.
MR. ERLE. Q. What was it he said about the information? just look to your memoranda as to that. A. If I would call on a future occasion he would let us know the result—I told him I could not call again—I told him that I meant to go to the Treasury immediately, and report the case.
COURT. Q. Are you sure you said you would not call again? A. Yes—I said, if he chose to send me any explanation, I would report that also, but I could not delay it.
MR. WILKINS. Q. Then you did not say that you would not call again? A. I do not think I made use of those words—Mr. Barber produced two books, and I really do not speak positively in which it was I saw the entry of 90l. odd, and 15l.—I will swear I saw it in some book.
MR. ERLE. Q. Did you take any part in getting up this case? A. None whatever—I reported the case to the Treasury two days after this interview, and have taken no further part in the case—my brother, and Mr. Weir, my clerk, have been concerned in it—I had this interview with Mr. Barber at his own office, in Bridge-street—I went to him immediately after having seen Miss Slack at the Bank—this prosecution is by the Treasury—I had no further concern in it on the part of the Bank than to report it to the Treasury.
MR. SAMUEL ROBERT GOODMAN . I am the chief clerk at the Mansion House. I was there when the prisoner Barber was first brought up, when the will was produced, and Miss Slack and the proctor, Mr. Wills, were examined—after they
had been examined, Mr. Barber applied to be discharged on bail—Mr. Clarkson said that further evidence would be brought forward, and, upon that, the Lord Mayor declined taking bail—Mr. Clarkson asked if Mr. Fletcher was in the room, and no answer was given to him by any person—a short time elapsed, and some communication was made by some person whom I did not know at that time, and whom I should not recognise now; and Mr. Barber then spoke to a party in the room, who afterwards turned out to be Mr. Fletcher.
Q. How soon after? A. Immediately afterwards—Mr. Barber then made a statement to the Lord Mayor, which I took down in writing, and, after he had made his statement, he then called Mr. Fletcher as his witness.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. Do you remember Mr. Barber examining Mr. Fletcher? A. I do, and also his cross-examining Miss Slack—I have a copy of that cross-examination—it is some length—it runs four pages in my book.
MR. ERLE. Q. You say he called Mr. Fletcher as his witness, was that after the Lord Mayor had refused to bail him? A. Certainly—he spoke to Fletcher before he called him—the proceedings were kept waiting, I should say, a quarter of an hour, whilst he was in conversation with Mr. Fletcher in the same room.
(The will was here read, dated 3rd June, 1842; it purported to be the last will and testament of Ann Slack, formerly of Smith-street, Chelsea, spinster, but then of South-terrace, Pimlico, and bequeathed to Emma Slack, her niece, 3500l. three per cent Consols, standing in her name in the Bank of England, with all other property she might possess, and appointing her sole executrix.)
(The affidavit for probate was dated 16th March, 1843, and was to the effect that the deponent, Emma Slack, of No. 7, Francis-street, Tottenham Court-road, spinster, was the sole executrix, named in the last will and testament of said Ann Slack, late of South-terrace, Pimlico, Middlesex, spinster, who died on or about the 17th of Feb. 1843, and declaring her effects to be under 5000l.)
(The power of attorney granted by Miss Slack to Aderne Hulme, Esq., to receive her dividends, on the Three per Cents., was also read.)
Thursday, 15th April, 1844.
THE QUEEN AGAINST BARBER AND OTHERS CONTINUED.
WILLIAM OBADIAH WHEELER re-examined. I am a clerk in the Bank. Mr. Barber kept an account there up to the time of his apprehension—I think the account began in 1839 or 1840—there was a private account of his, and a joint account of Barber and Bircham.
DANIEL FORRESTER re-examined. I went to Bristol to look after Mrs. Saunders—I found the business of a fishmonger carrying on there—the name of Saunders was up at the place—I looked for her—I searched there for the husband as well as her—the business was still carried on by a young man about twenty, who was stated to be the son, and a young lady about sixteen went over the house with me—I took her for the daughter.
MR. ERLE. Q. Could you get from them where the mother and father were? A. They stated they did not know.
(MR. JAMES here applied, on behalf of the prisoner Dorey, to be allowed to withdraw her plea and plead guilty, which was accordingly done.)
John Hutchinson, surgeon, Nelson-square; Charles Brady, surgeon, Black-friars-road;
William Schoones, solicitor, Tunbridge, Kent; Stephen Geary, architect and surveyor; Alexander Morton, gentleman, Park-road, Chelsea; Edward Evans, surgeon, Borough-road; William Long, solicitor, Bouverie-street; William Eeles, surgeon, Union-street, Borough;—Parrell, solicitor. North-street; John William Cousins, gentleman; John Elston Rogers, publisher of the "Economist" newspaper; Francis Squire, engineer; Charles Spong, clerk to Elmore and Co., merchants; Henry Macnamara, pleader, Inner Temple;——Pilcher, surgeon; Cornelius Wittenoon, cashier to Grissel and Peto;——Bernard, architect and surveyor; and——Martin, undertaker, deposed to Barber's good character.
BARBER— GUILTY . Aged 36.
FLETCHER— GUILTY . Aged 50.
Transported for Life.
WILLIAM SAUNDERS— NOT GUILTY .
LYDIA SAUNDERS— GUILTY . Aged 38.
DOREY —Aged 32.
Confined Two years.
Monday, April 22, 1844.
Before Mr. Baron Gurney.
On the application of MR. PHINN, the prisoner withdrew his former plea of not guilty to this indictment, and pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 47.— Transported for Seven Years.
OLD COURT.—Thursday, April 11th, 1844.
Second Jury, before Mr. Recorder.
GUILTY . Aged 45.— Confined Fourteen Days.
1062. ELIZA LOADER was indicted for stealing 1 gown, value 8s.; 1 petticoat, 1s.; 2 pillow-cases, 1s.; 1 lb. weight of sugar, 7d.; 1 night-gown, 6d.; 1 collar, 1d.; 1 shift, 1s.; 1 table-napkin, 3d.; 2 pairs of stockings, 3d.; 1 night-cap, 3d.; 2 handkerchiefs, 1s.; 1 bolster-case, 2d.; 1 printed book, 6d.; 1 teaspoon, 1d.; 1 pair of scissors, 3d.; 1 looking-glass, 1s.; 1 yard of calico, 6d.; 2 shillings, and 4 pence; the goods of William Fox, her master; to which she pleaded
GUILTY .— Confined Six Weeks.
1063. PHILIP WETZEL was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of Henry Sheffield and another, about three o'clock in the night of the 15th of Aug., at St. Mary, Whitechapel, with intent to steal, and stealing therein, 1 time-piece, value 5l.; 1 looking-glass and frame, 1s. 6d.; their property: and 1 penknife, 6d.; and 1 handkerchief, 2s.; the goods of the said Henry Sheffield.
HENRY SHEFFIELD . I live in Church-lane, St. Mary, Whitechapel. I have a counting-house attached to my house—the bottom part opposite the street is used as a shoemaker's shop, and the back part is a counting-house—Allen, our foreman, resides on the premises, but I do not—I lost a looking. glass and time-piece, the property of myself and Edward Sheffield, my brother; and a penknife and silk pocket handkerchief of my own.
in Church-lane, and a house attached to it—the front is in Church-lane, and the back in a timber yard—I was called up in Aug. between three and half-past three o'clock one morning, and missed the articles named in the indictment—the time-piece, clothes brush, looking-glass, and silver eye-glass were taken from the counting-house, the other things from the first floor—the counting-house communicates with the dwelling-house, which I occupy—the counting-house window was shut the night before—I found the long bar which fastens the yard gates taken down, put on one side, and one gate partly open, which would enable a person to get to the counting-house door, but there is a ride at the other end of the yard—we suppose they went down the ride, and climbed over the fence into the yard—I found the counting-house wide open—the bar of the gate was up the night before—it must have been taken down inside to get out—I have seen the time-piece in possession of Wigley.
EDWARD WIGLEY (police-constable H 141.) I apprehended the prisoner at half-past three o'clock in the morning, on the 22nd of March, coming out of the yard of a house—he told me he lived at No. 5, Buckle's-street—I went there, and found this time-piece in a dark cupboard—I showed it to him, and asked if it was his—he said it was, that be bought it of a woman, who was gone to America, six or seven months ago—he spoke broken English. Prisoner. He could not have understood me; I said I bought it of man.
ELIZABETH KISLAR . I am the wife of John Kislar, of 5, Buckle-street, Whitechapel. The prisoner has had a room there about a year—some months ago, I heard a clock strike in his room—it was four, five, or six months ago—I spoke to him about it—he said, "I have get a nice clock; I bought it"—I asked where he bought it—he said, of Mrs. Ranf who frequented the house—I saw the policeman take a handkerchief from his trunk.
MARY RANF . I am the wife of Henry Ranf, of Greenfield-street, Commercial-road—I have known the prisoner nine or ten months—I employed him to make my shoes—he came to me in Sept., and asked me to go with him to Tower-hill, that he had a clock at a dock-maker's in Tower-street, and asked me to go with him, as be could not speak English sufficiently—I sent my daughter with him—they brought the clock into my room, and he asked me to let him leave it there a day or two—I asked how he came by it—he said he had it of a party who came from America, or was going to America—I asked what he gave for it—he said, 24s.—I said it was worth 5l. or 6l.—next day he brought a man to look at it, who offered him 2l. for it—it remained at my house, and one day, in consequence of what I heard of him, I told my daughter to give him whatever belonged to him, and next day he came and took his clock and things away—I washed for him—he took it away in Oct.
WILLIAM ALLEN re-examined. This is our looking-glass—I saw it in the prisoner's room the same day as I found the clock—my employer's name is on the back of it—I know it to be his—it was lost with the clock and coats—this handkerchief and pocket-knife I know—they were lost at the same time—the clock is worth 5l.
Prisoner's Defence. I bought the looking-glass and knife in the street; the looking-glass, at the Jews fair, for 1s. 6l., on the left side of Whitechapel;
the handkerchief I had from the same man as the clock; hit name is Sax; he went to America.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Eighteen Months.
FRANCES HAWLEY . I am a widow, and live in George-street, London-fields, Hackney. I have known the prisoner seven or eight years, selling water-cresses in the street—I took her into my house—she was with me a week—I put a bag, with seven sovereigns and a half and some silver, into my pianoforte, in the back parlour—next morning I let her go out to the Sunday-school, as she represented—I went to the piano, in about half-an-hour, and the bag and sovereigns were gone—she did not return—I went to her father's house, and when she came in, I told her she had robbed me—she said no, she did net have it.
JAMES ATTWOOD (policeman.) I apprehended the prisoner on the Monday, at her father's—I neither threatened nor promised her—she told me she had the money—she seemed rather confused, and said, "I let a boy in at twelve o'clock at night; I dropped off to sleep; he took the money, and I let him out again at two o'clock in the morning; his name is Bill Hall"—she said she fell asleep, and he must have taken it then, and she did not know any, thing of it—I inquired after the boy, who I had information of, but he had not been seen about there for six months.
MRS. HAWLEY re-examined. I put the money inside the pianoforte—I did not lock it—she was in bed before X put it there—I do not know how she knew it was there—I have no servant—I do not know Bill Hall
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
SARAH BRISEY . I live with my mother, who keeps a lodging-house in Randall-street, Limehouse—the prisoner lodged there nine weeks—I missed a ring and ear-rings from my own room—the prisoner was taken on another charge, and some duplicates found upon him—he said, "They belong to you, Sarah, but I shall get a ship and replace them to-morrow"—I had missed them about five weeks.
CHARLES DICKENS . I assist my mother, who keeps a pawnbroker's shop in the Commercial-road, Limehouse—this ring and ear-ring were pawned on the 20th of Feb. by a man named Anderson—the duplicate produced by the officer is what I gave for them.
JOSEPH PUDDIFORD (police-constable K 257.) I went to Randall-street and found these duplicates in the prisoner's pocket—he begged to be for-given, said he was going to get a ship, and would replace them.
(The prisoner put in a written defence, stating that he had lodged with the prosecutrix's mother on his return from two voyages, and had left several articles in her charge; that he had lent her money, and had been keeping company
with her daughter, till he found her associating with another man; and he was then charged with the theft.)
SARAH BRISLEY re-examined. He paid my mother 14s. for a week's board—he owed us 22s. borrowed money—he took us to places of amusement, and when his bill was made out my mother deducted what he paid—he said he wished to keep me company, but I denied him—he then used bad expressions, and broke the fender—he had bought me the ear-rings, but they were deducted from his bill—he owed us for five weeks' board besides his board, and 22s. 6d. borrowed money—the things were taken from my mother's bed-room.
JAMES HOWARD . I lodge at this house—on the 21st of March I put my silk handkerchief on the bed—when I got up in the morning it was gone—nobody slept in the room—a policeman was fetched—the prisoner then came and said, "Forgive me, James, I took your handkerchief, but I was drunk; I am going to get a ship to-morrow, and will get it out of pawn"—I said I would not forgive him—we were not both paying our addresses to the same lady—this is my handkerchief—we boarded together in the house.
JOSEPH PUDDIFORD (police-constable K 276.) I took the prisoner—as soon as be saw me he said, "James, forgive me; I took your handkerchief to get a glass of grog; I was drunk; I will replace it"—I asked him for his duplicates—he gave me his pocket-book with two in it—I asked him for the one for the prosecutor's handkerchief—he said he had lost it—he did not tell me where it was pawned—I found it.
GUILTY . Aged 23.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined One Month.
CAROLINE HARRIS CLOS . I am the wife of Ralph Close, of Wellington-place, Stepney—on the 16th of March I gave my sister, Marian Satchwells, 2s. 6d. to pay a bill for me—the prisoner was present, and went out with her.
MARIAN SARAH SATCHWELL . I am single—I have known the prisoner for some years—she was present when my sister gave me 1s. 4s. 3 1/2 d. to pay a baker's bill, and get some things out of pawn—the prisoner waited outside the baker's for me while I paid 6s. 0 1/4 d.—I had the rest of the money in my bag—I had my child with me—it cried—I took it of the prisoner, and gave her the bag with the money in it to pay for a ring and other articles at Mr. Vesper the pawnbroker's in the Commercial-road—she asked me what they came to, and when I was going to pay for them she said there was only 5s. 6l., in the bag—I said, "It is impossible, there is more in the bag"—Mr. Vesper advised us to go home—when I got outside she said, "Marian, you need not think I have any money; I have not a farthing about me, for I have not seen Mr. Hedgell for a fortnight"—that is her husband—we returned home—she said she did not think my sister had given me the money—the money was seven half-crowns, 6s. 6d. and 3 1/2 d.—I found in the bag only 4s. 6d. when it was returned to me—I had looked at it just before I went to Mr. Vesper's—there was then five half-crowns in it when I delivered it into her hand—there was no copper in it when I got home—when I was at Mr.
Vesper's she counted the money out, and I saw there was 5s. 6l., then—there was 1s. less when I got home—my sister sent for a policeman.
Cross-examined by MR. M'MAHON. Q. HOW much did you miss? A. 9s. 8 1/4 d.—I counted my money after I paid the baker—the money could not have dropped out as I took the child of her—my sister wished us both to be searched—I consented—she refused, and was given in charge—there ought to have been 18s. in the bag—I had counted the money at Vesper's door, two or three minutes before I gave her the bag—I could not have lost the money myself—there was 18s. 3 1/4 d.—4s. 1d. was paid to Vesper for the ring, and 4s. 6d. brought home—we had been out about an hour and a half—I did not give the bag to the child to hold—it was not four months old—we called at a pawnbroker's before we went to Vesper's, but transacted no business.
DENNIS M'CARTHY (police-constable K 167.) The prisoner was given in my custody—she denied taking any money, and said her husband had sent her some money that morning—the witness was there when she said that, and I believe noticed it—she did not say "You said, you had not seen her for some time."
JANE SCOTT . I am the wife of a policeman at the station—I searched the prisoner—she refused to give me her pocket—I took it from her—she said, "That money belongs to myself; my husband sent me 16s. this morning"—I found in it three half-crowns, two shillings, and two pence.
MRS. CLOSE re-examined. 1 gave her 1l. 4s. 3 1/4 d.
Cross-examined. Q. Had you been drinking that morning? A. No—I counted the money about twice myself before giving it to my sister—I charged Her with stealing the money between 11 and 12 in the evening—before we went out she had had one glass of rum with Mr. Close—she had complained of pain in her side, and had a small glass of gin—my sister was with us—I left them in the Commercial-road—I did not go to Vesper's with them—when they came home my sister said the money had been lost—the policeman was fetched—I said "I will have you both searched"—the prisoner said she would not be searched, she had no money, at first, and then she said she had a half-crown—I do not owe her anything at all.
(The prisoner received a good character.).
GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy.— Confined One week.
OLD COURT.—Friday, April 12th, 1844.
Before Edward Bullock, Esq.
1069. WILLIAM GOULD was indicted for stealing, on the 15th of March, at Heston, in the dwelling-house of James Binfield, 1 tea-pot, value 6s.; 1 coffee-pot, 6s.; 2 decanters, 4s.; 4 wine-glasses, 3s.; 3 tumblers, 3s.; 1 cruet-stand, 1s.; 3 cruets, 1s. 9d.; and 1 towel, 3d.; his goods, and afterwards burglariously breaking out of the said dwelling-house; to which he pleaded.
GUILTY . Aged 40.— Transported for Ten Years.
GUILTY . Aged 52.— Confined Six Months ,
GUILTY . Aged 15.— Confined Two Months.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Fourteen Days.
Fourth Jury, before Mr. Recorder.
THOMAS TUBBS . I am a costermonger, and now live in Nelson-street., Bethnal-green. One Bailey and I had a little house together in New-court—Bailey moved into the prisoner's house—I went to him for a trine of rent which he owed me, the prisoner interfered, and called me a name I did not like, and I struck him—we fought, had a few rounds, and I found I was stabbed in the breast, and in different places—I saw nothing in his hand—nothing was found afterwards—I went to Dr. Oakley, then to the police station, and then to the London Hospital—I struck him first—I was in the hospital from Monday until the Sunday, and then I ran out—I had one wound on my breast, one below my hip, and other places of no consequence—I did not see him eating anything when I spoke to him, nor with a knife—he was sober—nobody was near enough to have done it but the prisoner.
ANN EUSTACE . I am the wife of Thomas Eustace, and live in New-court, next door to the prisoner. On the 28th of Aug. I heard the prosecutor speak to Bailey—the prisoner interfered, and called him bad names—Tubbs struck him, and they both fought—I ran for an officer—when I came back, Tubbs was going to the doctor's bleeding—I put my band on the prisoner's shoulder—he put up his hand to push me away, and told me to let him alone, or he should hurt me—I found my finger cut—I did not see anything in his hand.
BARNARD EDWARD BROADHDUT . I am house-surgeon at the London Hospital—the prosecutor came there—I examined, and found six or seven wounds on the lower part of the chest, immediately above the breastbone—some were punctured, and some incised wounds, none of them were serious—they must have been done with a small cutting instrument, most likely a small clasp knife—there was a puntured wound in the upper part of the thigh, about half an inch deep, and one-eighth wide—one wound was about two inches long, it was no depth, quite superficial—the greatest depth was about a quarter of an inch—if the instrument had passed between the ribs, it might have done injury.
GEORGE TBAKIE (police-sergeant H 8.) I took the prisoner—I said, "This a very serious charge against you; I think the man will die" (I had seen him at the chemist's shop, bleeding profusely from the chest) the prisoner said, "Well, I did it in my own defence"—I said, "You are not bound to answer, but what did you do it with?"—he said, "A knife"—I said, "Where is the knife?"—he said, "I dropped it in the court"—I looked about the court, but could not find it.
(The prisoner put in a written defence, stating that he was at a neighbour's, eating some bread and meat, and hearing a noise, went out with a knife in his hand; that the prosecutor immediately struck him several times, and he not thinking he had the knife in his hand, struck him again and that the prosecuter had since endeavoured to arrange the matter.)
MARTHA CLARK . I am the prisoner's sister, and live in Tuck-street, Bethnalgreen—the prosecutor came to me on the 9th of March, and said if I gave him money to buy some oranges, he would not take my brother—and on the 18th he came and drank with my brother, and said he did not with to take him.
THOMAS TUBBS re-examined. It is false—I did go to this woman's place. I was called in, and drank with the prisoner—I did not take him myself—the policeman came to me on the Monday night, and said would I go with him, but I did not—he asked me to meet him at nine o'clock, and I did not.
GUILTY of an Assault. Aged 27.— Confined One Month.
1074. ELLEN CALLAGAN was indicted for stealing, at St. George's, Hanover-square, 1 watch, value 3l.; 1 gown, 1s.; 1 coat, 2l.; 1 handkerchief, 2s.; and 1 snuff-box, 1s.; the goods of Francis Mason: 1 coat, 6s.; 2 waistcoats, 14s.; 1 telescope, 2s.; 1 brooch, 4s.; and I stock, 5s.; the goods of John Mason: I shawl, 2s.; 1 teachest, 1l.; 1 ring, 4s.; 1 tea-cannister, 1s.; 2oz. weight of tea, 6s.; 1 metal watch-case, 1s.; and 2 shillings; the property of Richard Masou: in the dwelling-house of William Martimon.
FRANCIS MASON . I live at No. 4, Davis-street, Oxford-street, in the parish of St. George, Hanover-square. The prisoner worked for me as char-woman occasionally for three or four months—I lost the articles stated, part of which are my brother's, and part my own—one of them were worth 5l.
JOSEPH NIFTON (police-constable D 118.) I went to No. 12, Orchard-place, Portman-square, on the 26th of March, and found the prisoner in bed in the front attic—I told her she was suspected of stealing a watch, and other articles, the property of Mr. Mason, of Davis-street—the said she had no property there of Mr. Mason's—I asked if she had any property at all there—she said, "Yes"—she was about moving the bed from the sacking, and said there was some property—I there found this handkerchief, and in it this snuff-box, with seventeen duplicates, some of which correspond with the property stolen, and a pack of cards—I found the tea cannister alongside the bed—she said they were her own, and the tea cannister belonged to her landlady, who slept in the same room; but she said it was not hers, and pointed to her own.
MART ECKETT . I searched the prisoner at the Marylebone station—I asked for her pocket—she said she had not any—I told her to undo the bosom of her gown, which she did, and took something out of her bosom—I said, "Give me that"—she said, "I shall not"—I said, "I must have it"—she said, "It is my own hard earnings, it is mine"—I said, "I must have it"—it was a bag, with 3l. 11s. 5 3/4 d. in it, 2l. 11s. 4d. of it in silver—she insisted on having it counted.
stock, pawned by the prisoner—the last pledge is on the 24th of Feb.—the corresponding duplicates are in the officer's possession.
(property produced and sworn to.)
Prisoner's Defence, I got them from the landlady of the house, and pawned them for her; I thought they were her own ; she gave me the duplicates; she said she had a bill to pay unknown to her husband.
FRANCIS MASON . Mrs. Martinson is landlady of the house—the prisoner was not employed by her—she said at the second examination she had them from Mrs. Martinson—the prisoner had access to the things, but Mrs. Martinson had not.
GUILTY of Larceny. Aged 30.— Transported for Seven Years.
1075. THOMAS HOLMES GUMMER was indicted for breaking and entering the warehouse of Robert Johnston, on the 19th of March, at St. DonStan's, Stepney, and stealing therein, 210lbs. weight of cheroots, value 60l. 45lbs. weight of cigars, 15l.; and 3 chests, 3d.; his goods.
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution.
ROBERT JOHNSTON . I live in Gloucester-street, Commercial-road, and am a cigar manufacturer—my warehouse is in the parish of St. Dunstan, Stepney. I locked up the premises on the 18th of March, at nine o'clock at night—I Went there next morning, about half-past six, and found the yard gate broken open, and the warehouse entered by breaking two locks—I missed three cases of cheroots, worth about 60l., weighing 210lbs., and about 45lbs. of cigars. in a bundle—I made inquiry of a turnpike man, and, sent the constable to the prisoner's house, in Dean-street, Spitalfields—I went there myself soon after—a woman opened the door, and gave the keys to Pritchard—the gates were locked—the woman opened them—I went in, and found a cart there, with some broken pieces of cigars in it—the horse was standing in the stable, and appeared to have been driven, for the sweat was dried on its neck, and not cleaned off—I went into the house—I noticed a door on my right hand on the second floor which was fastened—I forced it open, and in that room found my three chests of cheroots, and one box with the cigars k it—they as made in London, and are my manufacture—the lids of the chests were left behind in the warehouse—I have compared them with the chests and have no doubt they are mine.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. Can you distinguish your own manufacture if mixed with others? A. Certainly, there is not a house in London makes cheroots as I do—mine are made with a wire through them to cause a draft—I have compared the boxes with the lids, and swear to them—it might be on the first floor I found these—the turnpike gate is about 100 yards from my warehouse.
SAMUEL RICH . I live in Church-street, Mile-end, and am toll-collector at the gate. On the 19th of March, between one and two o'clock in the morning, I was on duty at the gate in Whitechapel-road, and saw a cart pass through, the prisoner and two other men were in it—I had known the prisoner for eight months before—I saw the name on the cart was Gummer or Gunner—I asked him what he was doing out at that time in the morning—he made no answer, but paid me 6d., and drove on—I am certain it was him—I saw the cart pass through again in about three quarters of an hour, in the same direction as it had originally gone through—there is a way it could have gone without coming through on the way back, and the same lad, I thought, who drove before was in it then, but not the prisoner.
Cross-examined. Q. Who drove? A. The lad, on both occasions—I asked for the toll the second time—the driver said he had paid before—I cannot swear it was the same cart, but to the best of my recollection it was—I did not believe it to be the same cart at first, so I asked for the toll—I have known the prisoner as a coffee-roaster about eight months—I never spoke to him—I merely knew him by seeing him pass—I did not call out to him by the name of Gummer, but Skinner—I am sure he was in the cart—I know there was a Mr. Skinner, a broker, in Whitechapel-road—I did not know him—I did not see him at the police-court, that I am aware of.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Why did you call out to the prisoner by the name of Skinner? A. I have seen him drive a cart with that name on it, and thought that was his name—I never knew him drive through at such a time before—I swear the prisoner was in the cart the first time it stopped to pay the toll, and I opened the gate for him—it drove through on the same side as the prosecutor's warehouse.
RHODA HATHAWAY . I am single, and live with my mother, in Gloucester-street, opposite Mr. Johnston's cigar factory. On the 19th of March before two o'clock in the morning, I heard a noise, and went to the window—I saw a cart standing at Mr. Johnston's premises—there was one man in the cart, and two or three out of it—I had not time to distinguish their faces—they threw a box on the shaft of the cart, and one inside—the men who were outside lifted or threw it in—the man on the cart took the reins and drove off quickly, and the men walked off.
Cross-examined. Q. What time was it? A. Soon after they left, the church clock struck two—I went to sleep, and did not hear any other noise.
MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Did there appear other boxes in the cart? A. Yes.
MR. JOHNSTON re-examined. There are streets to turn down between my gate and the turnpike—by going round the Commercial-road he could come back through the gate again, that would take about twenty minutes.
WILLIAM ARGENT (police-constable H 126.) I went to Mr. Johnston's, at seven o'clock in the morning, of the 19th of March, and made inquiry at the turnpike, I received information from Hathaway, and went to search in Dean-street—I knew that the prisoner lived there—it is about 400 yards from the turnpike—I went to a shed there, and found a cart—I called for Gummer—he came down stairs—I told him I had come to take him for being concerned with others in stealing cigars from Mr. Johnston—he said, "Very well"—he went up stairs—I followed him, and said he must go with me—he said, "Very well"—I told him of the cigars being stolen, and that his cart went through Whitechapel-gate about two o'clock—he said he had lent his cart to two men who took two of his rooms, to remove some goods, that he let the cart about twelve at night—I asked who the men were—he said he did not know them—I said it was late to let out a horse and cart to people he did not know—he said he should not have done it, only he had been drinking—I searched about the house, and did not find anything at first—I went with him to the station, and left Johnston there with two officers.
Cross-examined. Q. Did Mr. Johnston go with you? A. It was his brother—the prisoner came down from the bed-room—he was dressing himself—I searched only four rooms—it is a double house.
ANN PERRIN . I am the wife of George Perrin, of the Red Lion, White-chapel-road—I saw the prisoner at our house on the night of the 18th about a quarter to twelve o'clock—my house is about ten minutes' walk from Commercial-road—I do not know Johnson's premises.
Cross-examined. Q. Did he appear to have been drinking? A. I thought
he might have been drinking—he and three more had half a pint of beer and a pot of stout—I did not see him leave the house—nor know how much more he might have—there were two females and one man in his company—my house is near the theatre.
GUILTY . Aged 38.— Transported for Ten Years.
OLD COURT.—Saturday, April 13th, 1844.
GUILTY .— Confined Two Years.
1077. JOHN SMITH was indicted for forging and uttering a bill of exchange for 5l., with intent to defraud James Hore:—also for stealing a coat, value 5s., the goods of Lionel Williams Dyer 1 watch, value 15s.; and 1 time-piece, 4l.; the goods of Solomon Zempelburgh.
GUILTY .— Transported for Seven Years ,
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Twelve Months.
Fifth Jury before Mr. Recorder.
1079. MARTIN KELLY was indicted for feloniously assaulting Thomas Coventry, and cutting and wounding him on the face and left arm, with intent to murder him. 2nd COUNT, stating his intent to be to maim and disable. 3rd COUNT, to do him some grievous bodily harm.
THOMAS COVENTRT , watch-maker, No. 6, Playhouse-yard. On Saturday, the 24th Feb., I had been drinking freely at some public-houses—I have no particular recollection of being at a house in George-yard—I am not positive I was there—I remember some one endeavouring to pick a quarrel with me, but who they were I do not know, and whether that was in George-yard or not, I cannot say to be positive—I went home—when I got opposite my own door, I taw three men talking—I went up to them—I did not know their names—they were all strangers to me—while talking to them a man came up, laid hold of my collar, and said, "You are a pretty man to treat your friends to gin and won't pay for it"—I said, "What do you mean, sir?"—after this I received a wound in my cheek—I cannot say what with—it was done so quick, and it was rather dark—in a minute after I received a very great wound in my arm, to the best of my knowledge from the same person—I called out "Murder"—got over the way as well as I could, and sat down on the steps where I live—I was taken to St. Bartholomew's Hospital, and was there a fortnight.
JOHN PERKINI . I live at No. 11, Norman's-buildings, Whitecross-street. On Sunday morning, the 25th of Feb., I was in Playhouse-yard with my brother Thomas, and Cornelius Coglin—I stood talking to a woman named Fisher, a pipe-maker's wife in Playhouse-yard, between twelve and one o'clock, and shortly after the prosecutor came up, a little intoxicated, and began forcing his conversation on us—he had not been long there before the prisoner came up and accused him of calling for half a pint of gin and
going away without paying for it—the prosecutor said he was mistaken in the man—the prisoner said, "Am I, you b——?" drew a chisel from down his left sleeve, and struck him a back-handed blow on the eye—the second blow knocked his hat off, and the third cut his arm—the prosecutor ran across the road and cried out murder—the prisoner came up to me and told me to have nothing to do with him, as he was no good, at the same time he put the chisel up his sleeve and walked away—I then went over to the other side of the yard and saw the prosecutor bleeding—I followed the prisoner down Play-house-yard to the bottom—Coglin persuaded me to come back again for fear I might be served the same, but I still kept on—he endeavoured to dissuade me from following him—when I came to the bottom of Play house-yard I saw the prisoner standing with three other men—I did not say anything to him at the time—he asked me what was the matter—I said nothing, and went down Golden-lane in search of a policeman—I did not find one—I returned and saw the prisoner go up George-yard to his house—I saw the policeman—Coglin told him the circumstances, and that the prisoner was up George-yard—I took the prosecutor to the hospital—I saw that it was a chisel the prisoner used—it has not been seen it found—I afterwards went with three policemen to the prisoner's house in George-yard—I pointed him out and they took him.
CORNELIUS COGLIN . I live in Long-buildings, Blue Anchor-alley. I was in Playhouse-yard, with Perkins and my brother, between one o'clock and half-past one in the morning, and saw the prosecutor—he was drunk, joining in conversation with us—the prisoner came up in ten minutes, seized him by the collar, and accused him of calling for half-a-pint of gin, and not paying for it—the prosecutor said, "You must be mistaken"—the prisoner stepped back, drew a chisel from his left sleeve, and struck him in the eye—the second blow knocked his hat off—the prosecutor had his arm up to guard his eye, and he struck him over his arm, and cut his arm right up from the shoulder to the wrist—I was rather frightened—I could distinctly see the chisel glitter—after striking him the third time, he put the chisel up his sleeve again—I noticed a great deal of bleeding—the prisoner came up to us, and said, "Do not have any thing to do with him, young men, for he is a b----rogue"—they were both strangers to me—I had seen the prisoner before, but never spoke to him—when he was walking away from us, he said, he had got that with him which would level fifty such b----s—Perkins was going after the prisoner—I persuaded him not, for fear he should meet with any injury—I went with the prosecutor to the hospital.
THOMAS PERKINS . On the 25th of Feb., between one and two in the morning, I saw the prisoner draw a chisel from his left arm, and strike the prosecutor on the eye, and immediately the blood spirted from his eye and arm—I saw him bleeding most profusely—my brother was standing by talking to the prosecutor—he wished to take the man into custody—I said, "John, do not do so, you will get served the same"—he said, it was a shame to see a man served in that manner, he would go—Coglin followed him—I went to the prosecutor, and saw his arm with a gash in it, and he pointed to his eye—he called police and murder—I took him to Dr. Lyne's, and he persuaded us to take him to the hospital—I took him—the prisoner remained with my brother, and Coglin followed me—on returning, we gave the prisoner into custody.
HENRY TUCKER (police-constable 119.) I went to George-yard, Golden-lane, with John Perkins, and found the prisoner there—Perkins pointed him out as the man who had wounded Coventry—I took him into custody—I told him, it would be better for him to go to the station quietly—he asked me where the man was—I said, in the hospital, very ill—he said, he should not
have done it, but he had been drinking, some man in a black coat gave him the chisel to do it with.
JURY. Q. What is the prisoner? A. A bricklayer's labourer—he had not the appearance of being drunk at all, when I took him.
Prisoner Q. You stated, at Worship-street, that I was drunk? A. No, you were not.
JOHN THOMAS JACKSON . I am house-surgeon at St. Bartholomew's-hospital On the 25th of Feb., Coventry was brought to the hospital bleeding, from a wound on the right side of the cheek, about an inch long, and of considerable depth, and from one, on the inner side of the left arm, between four and five inches long, it went nearly down to the bone—they were certainly severe wounds—I saw nothing on the eye, the wound on the cheek was about an inch below the eye—a chisel would have produced the wounds—the one on the arm was a clean cut wound—I should think it would require a good deal of force to make that—he was in the hospital, I think, about a fortnight—that was quite necessary—he bled freely, but not profusely—I stitched up the wound in the arm—I simply applied cold wet lint to the other wound, without stitching it—the danger of such a wound, would depend very much on the constitution of the person, and treatment afterwards—it would depend a good deal on, whether it would produce erysipelas, or go off in a natural way and heal by the first intention—he was healthy, and it went on very favourably.
Prisoner. The man's wife informed my mother that the coat war never cut at all. Witness. At the time he came to the surgery the coat had been taken off to dress the wound—he could not have been cut unless the coat was removed or cut through—it could not be done by a thrust up the sleeve.
Prisoner. I hope you will hare mercy on me; I have an aged mother who depends on me for support.
GUILTY on 3rd Count. Aged 24.— Transported for Fifteen Year.
MR. O'BRIEN conducted the Prosecution,
HENRY GARDINER . I am in the employ of Mr. William Rhodes. On the 2nd of April, about eleven o'clock, I was engaged at Mr. Williams's, at the end of Cock and Castle-lane—I had been at Mr. Rhodes's brick-field, to cover the bricks from the frost—there is no pathway through the field—no one had any business there except those in Mr. Rhodes's employ—the prisoner came up to me and said, "Halloo, what do you do here? you have got some one else with you"—I said no, I had not; there was the straw which I sat on, it would not take him long to look at it—the prisoner then knocked my hat off—I told him, if he did not let me alone, I would send for some one to put him out of my field—I meant my master, Mr. Joseph Banks, Mr. Rhodes's foreman—on that the prisoner hit me, then knocked me down; and as I was getting up again I picked up a small piece of brick, or a stone, and threw it at him—he then knocked me down again, and beat me about the head with his fist while I was down—he said nothing else—it was about a quarter or twenty minutes past twelve—when he left me I was not sensible—I am getting a great deal better now, and hope you will have mercy on him—I had known him previously—he had nothing to do with the
field—I have been attended by a surgeon—my sight is coming round as far as can be expected.
HUGH LEWIS , surgeon, North-place, Ball's-pond. On Tuesday morning, the 2nd of April, I was called to attend the prosecutor—I found him bleeding profusely from three wounds, two on the lower left eyelid, and one on the right lower eyelid, but that was a very trifling wound; those on the left were about one-eighth or one-tenth of an inch in length, and about three-quarten of an inch in depth—his head was extremely tumefied from extravasation of blood, his eyes having bled—measures were adopted to relieve him—he was in a state of torpidity from concussion of the brain—they were rugged lacerated wounds, and were done by some obtuse substance; probably it might be done with the knuckles pressed violently—they might be inflicted with a brick; I cannot undertake to swear they were—it was supposed that he was likely to die from the concussion of the brain—the Magistrate, Mr. Coombe, came down in the evening, about six o'clock, to take the deposition of the man, when partial sensibility was restored—he is not well yet; he is under my care now—in time the eye will recover, but the maxillary bone is still much hurt—there is still chronic inflammation about the eye—blood has been abstracted, and incisions have been made to take away the blood which has been effused—he had a very violent beating indeed—the wound on the eye might probably have been done with a nail.
Prisoner. I was going through the brick-fields; I heard some one snoring in the straw; I found the man asleep; I pulled the straw up, touched him on the hat, and said, "Rise up, old fellow;" he said, "I will rise you;" he got up, and hit me on the arm; I hit him in the face; be took up a bit of brick; I hit him on the eye, and knocked him down with my fist; he hallooed "Police;" I said, "If you halloo 'Police,' I will halloo Murder," and did so two or three times; I afterwards turned faint, fell down, and laid there till the policeman took me.
JOHN ALLICOT (police-constable N 64.) I apprehended the prisoner lying on his back with one side of his face all over blood—I shook him two or three times before I could get him up—he seemed stupid when I first got him up—I asked him why he had done it—he said, "I cannot tell, but some one has knocked me on the head with a brick"—I said, "You can tell us who it is if you like"—he said, "No, I don't know who it was"—I heard cries of "Murder" two or three times, and "Police" once, which was why I went—I found him more to the left than where I heard the cries, about 150 yards from the spot—he was in liquor—he put his hand to his head, and said to me, "You b—, did you do this?"—I took him to the station, and saw a small wound of very little consequence just over the left ear.
Prisoner. A woman saw I was covered with blood; you can see where it ran down; I am certain I never chucked a brick at him; it was a bit of brick he chucked at me, not a whole one; I did not owe him any animosity, and I do not think he owed me any.
GUILTY of an Assault. Aged 21.— Confined Three Months.
OLD COURT.—Monday, April 15th, 1844.
First Jury, before Mr. Justice Williams.
GUILTY .— Confined Two Months.
Before Mr. Justice Maule.
JAMES BROPUY . I live in Lisson-road, Lisson-grove, and am foreman of the street sweepers. On the 3rd of April I was sweeping in Edgware-road—a cart came past Cambridge-terrace loaded with dust going towards Paddington—the prisoner was following about ten yards behind the cart—there was nobody besides him with it—the cart was on its right side, but he was on the wrong side of the horse—he came up before the cart on the right hand side of the cart, bat the wrong side of the horse—he came on the off side with a whip in his hand—whether he hit the horse I cannot say, but the horse knocked a man down—I was on the footpath behind the horse on the same side as the man—the cart hid the prisoner from me, except that I saw him run and overtake the cart—at the time he came up, the horse turned round short, and knocked the man down—his name was John West—he worked for me, and was on the same side of the road close to the kennel—the cart wheel pasted over his loins—I heard the prisoner say, "Why did not the man get out of the way?"—he said he hallooed—I had not heard him halloo—the prisoner was very much intoxicated at the time—he went staggering up to his horse, and as he went to the station he wanted more beer—it was a quarter-past ten o'clock in the morning.
EDWARD SANKEY . I am a sweeper. I saw this happen—I saw the prisoner go up on the off side of the horse—I was about twenty-five yards behind, on the near side with Brophy—he was nearer the cart than I was—I saw the prisoner go up on the off side, and hit the horse about three times with a whip—it directly ran to the near side, and the shaft or the horse knocked the man own—the wheel went over him—the prisoner stopped the cart, came behind, and said, "Did the wheel go over him? the said he had hallooed to him to get out of the way—the prisoner was very much in liquor, but not so drunk but what he could walk by the side of the horse till we found a policeman—any body could see he was drunk from his way of walk-ing—the cart would have cleared the deceased by two yards if the prisoner had not struck the horse—the deceased was working in the kennel.
WILLIAM GREEK . I am a sweeper—we were cleaning the Edgware-road, and had nearly finished, when the prisoner came up with one of Mr. Stapleton's dust-carts—just as he got opposite the deceased, he went to the off-side of the horse and struck it, and the shaft struck the deceased, knocked him down, and the wheel went over him—I should say the horse and cart would have cleared the deceased if the prisoner had not struck it—the near wheel was two or three yards from the kennel, and the deceased was shovelling close to the kennel—there was nothing passing at the time.
THOMAS HARRINGTON (police-constable D 83.) I took the prisoner into custody about ten minutes after the accident had happened—he was drunk—I told him I was informed his horse and cart had gone over a man in Edgware-road—he said he was very sorry for the poor man—I said I should take him to the station—he immediately rushed to the Duke of York public-house, and said he would have half a pint of beer—I would not allow it.
EDWIN WILLIAM TIMS . I am resident surgeon at the Western General Dispensary, Lisson-grove, South—on the 3rd of April the deceased was brought to me by one or two of the witnesses, reported to be run over—he died in fourteen hours from injuries to the pelvis, the bones of which were
broken in two places, and other injuries—he could not possibly have recovered.
Prisoner's Defence. I was driving up the Edgware-road, and happened to be four or five yards behind my horse on the pavement—having a horse which holds very much off, and seeing the scavengers on the offside of the horse I ran and hit it on the off side, not seeing the deceased, and before I could let my cart pass, and come to the near side, the accident had happened; if I had been alongside my horse it would not have happened; I must have seen the man.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 44.—Strongly recommended to mercy.— Confined One Month ,
Fourth Jury, before Mr. Common Sergeant.
MESSRS. BODKIN and DOANE conducted the Prosecution.
ALEXANDER AUSTIN . I am a bookbinder, and live in King-street, Longacre—I have known the prisoner about two months—on Tuesday, the 12th of March, about four o'clock, I met him as I was coming from the city, close to Temple-bar—I went and had some porter with him—he said he was going to draw a little money, and asked if I would wait—I went to Child's banking-house with him, adjoining Temple-bar—he said he should be about five minutes—he went in—I waited for him twenty or twenty-five minutes, and finding he did not come out, it began to rain, and I went away—I saw him again about nine in the evening at the White Lion, Drury-lane—he asked if I would make one of a party on the following Thursday to dine at the White Lion—I consented, and saw him there with others on Thursday about four o'clock giving a dinner.
WILLIAM SHEPPARD . I am clerk in the banking-house of Child and Co.—William Henry Smith is one of the partners—there are others—on the 12th of March, between four and five, this check for 55l. 10s. 2d. was presented to me, drawn by Mrs. M'Pherson, who has an account with us—I looked at the check, and had some doubts of it—I showed it to another party, but he thought it genuine, and desired me to pay it—I asked the prisoner where he brought it from, who and what he was—I forget who he said he brought it from, but he said the party kept the Bedford Arms, and he was the son of the party—I paid him three 10l. notes, Nos. 2706, 2707, and 2708, and two 5l. notes—I believe the prisoner to be the man.
FRANCIS REYNOLDS . I live at No. 125, Strand, and am a hatter. On the 12th of March the prisoner came and ordered three hats, two to be sent to Dean-street, Soho, and one to the White Lion, Drury-lane—he paid me this 10l. note, No. 2706—I asked him to put his name on it—he wrote this name which I took for Pithers in my presence.
RICHARD WATSON . I am apprentice to Mr. Keeble, of Dean-street, Soho, I know the prisoner, and asked him to lend me a few shillings about three weeks ago—he said he would—he went away for about ten minutes—he came to Dean-street again, and gave me this 10l. note, No. 2707—I went with this same note to Rippon's wine vaults, and got it changed.
MR. KEEBLE. 1 live in Dean-street, Soho. I have known the prisoner
twenty years, and know the character of his handwriting—I have seen him write and corresponded with him—I believe this check to be his writing.
Prisoner, I never had the check, and was two miles off at the time.
ELIZA M'PHERSON . I live in Cadogan-place, Chelsea. The prisoner was my livery-servant, under the name of Petter, for about ten months—I never knew him by any other name—he left about the 4th of May—while he was with me I was in the habit of drawing checks on Messrs. Child's—I once drew a check for his wages, to present himself—it was on a slip of paper like this—this check is not my handwriting, nor written by my authority or knowledge.
GUILTY .— Transported for Seven Years ,
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
CHARLOTTE CHARLES . I am single, and live in Rutland-street, Hampstead-road. The prisoner occasionally came to clean my windows—he was there on the 8th of April—this diamond ring was in the looking-glass drawer in the room where he was cleaning windows—I missed it in the evening when the policeman called—this is my ring—(looking at it)—I have had it some years, and am quite confident of it.
Prisoner, I was distressed; my wife had lately been confined.
GUILTY of Larceny.— Confined Nine Months ,
WILLIAM THOMAS DIXON . I am a manner, and live in Connaught-place, with my wife, the prisoner lodged in the same place. On the 18th of March we were all three sitting at dinner—the prisoner took a wrong seat—I put my finger on his side pocket, and said, "Sidney, remove from that, and go to your own seat"—he refused at the moment—we began to push each other about, in good humour, in a jocular way, and as we were larking over a chair, the chair fell from under him, and in falling he tried to take hold of my arm or shoulder, and cut me—had he not done so, he probably would have fallen across the kitchen fender—he had a clasp-knife in his hand—it might have been quite accidental.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. He had the knife in his hand, paring potatoes? A. Yes.
MRS. GILMORE. I was in the room when this happened—I did not bear Dixon desire the prisoner to remove—there was a scuffle—I do not know how this happened, as my back was to them at the time.
Cross-examined. Q. You are the prosecutor's wife's mother? A. Yes—the prisoner took his meals with us, and is a respectable young man—I did Dot see the knife in his hand myself, but have often seen it—he usually pares his potatoes with it—he seldom uses a dinner-knife.
Cross-examined. Q. It is the knife he usually eats his dinner with? A. Yes—I am sure he had it out at the time.
said the prisoner—I asked how he came to do it, and the prisoner told me he took the knife out of his pocket and stabbed him—I asked of the prosecutor if he would give him in charge—he said yes, and I took him.
Q. How came the prisoner to say that, did you ask if he was provoked to do it? A. No—I believe he was very much agitated.
W. T. DIXON re-examined. I did not hear the prisoner say this—he had the knife in his hand—it might have been accidental.
NOT GUILTY .
1086. MARTHA LEE was indicted for stealing one printed book, value Is.; 3 finger-glasses, 6s.; 2 lip-glasses, 4s.; 1 wine-glass 1s.; 30 plates, 7l.; 4 decanter 40,s.; 6 dishes, 5l.; and 1 spoon, 6s.; the goods of Joseph Heapy Watson, her master, in his dwelling-house.
JOSEPH HEAPY WATSON . I live in Bedford-place, in the parish of St, George, Bloomsbury. The prisoner was in my service for about two months, and left on the 22nd of March without notice—after she was gone I missed the articles stated—the book produced I am positive is mine; the glasses are like mine, and the exact number I lost.
GIORGE JOHN RESTIEAUX (policeman.) 1 apprehended the prisoner, and found four glasses at her residence, No. 14, Bury-street; also, a finger and champagne glass at No. 5, Charles-street, Long-acre—the prisoner had both residences, but did not sleep at either—when I apprehended her I found a reticule bag and a key—she said it was the key of the room in Charles-street—it turned out to be so—I found the book at the room in Charles-street—she had a room there—I told her I took her for the robbery of Mr. Watson—she denied that she was the person who lived there—she afterwards confessed it.
Prisoner. The book was lent to me by one of the servants; the things were lost before I left; I left because I was married, as I did not like to let mistress know.
MR. WATSON re-examined. I saw the book on my drawing-room table four days before she left—we suspected nobody but her—she endeavoured to throw suspicion on a younger servant, but we never suspected her.
GUILTY .— Confined One Year.
OLD COURT.—Tuesday, April 16th, 1844
Fourth Jury, before Mr. Common Sergeant.
WILLIAM LING (policeman.) I produce the sheets—I took the prisoner into custody on the 9th of April—I afterwards went in to the back kitchen of No. 10, Orchard-place, and found the sheets—it was Hannah Miles's room—she said, in the prisoner's presence, that the prisoner lodged there, and she herself said she had been lodging there a week.
GUILTY . Aged 24.—Recommended to mercy by the Prosecutor.
Confined Three Months.
1088. HENRY GARRETT and JOSEPH DUNFORD Were indicted for stealing 20lbs. weight of beef, value 10s.; 3 lbs. weight of mutton, 1s.; and 6 lbs. weight of suet, 2s.; the goods of Thomas William Jeffreys', the master of Garrett.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. How do you know it? A. By the cut—I cut mine different from many other butchers; I do not leave the coarse parts on.
SUSANNAH CHOPPLE . I am a widow, living with my brother; the last witness. On the morning of the 9th of April, about ten minutes past seven o'clock, I concealed myself in the parlour—Garrett came home from work—the first thing he did was to go to the salt meat tub, and take out the salt meat till he came to this piece with a piece of fat—he laid all the others on the salt beef tray—he laid this on the block till he had finished taking all the others up, and then laid it on the top of it, with the pork—he came and looked into the parlour, to see if he could see any one, and when be found be could see no one, he sent the boy out for some coffee; then he went to this beef, brought it up, put it on the scale board with, the fat; then went behind the door, took a piece of neck of mutton, and laid that also with "the beef—he then took a large cloth, went to the same place, took out a large piece of suet, and concealed it in the cloth—he then" took three pieces of flap of mutton, and laid it on the scale-board; Dunford then came in, opened his basket and Garrett put all the meat into it but the flap of mutton—he then put the flap of mutton in the scale, and then in the man's basket; and the moment he was putting the hammer through the end of it, I, said, "Stop, I will have no more of this game carried on"—I shut the street door, and shut both the prisoners in—I sent the servant to call my brother—Garrett then said he had done nothing wrong—I said, "This does not look like it—he had weighed none of it—I said I had seen him do it repeatedly.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Where were you when you saw-this? A. In the parlour close to the blinds where Garrett came and looked in—he could not see me—the parlour was dark-, and the shop light—there was a back window, but the blind was drawn down—Garrett came in at ten minutes past seven o'clock—it was not my habit to be there at that time, or I should not have detected him—he never put the meat in the scale—the scale board is by the side of the scale—'I have had no quarrel with him.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. When Dunford came in did not you sea Garrett put the meat into the scale? A. No, he never put it in at all—I have never said so—only the flap of mutton—he had not the basket in his hand—he had it on his shoulder—he took it off his shoulder—I am quite sure of that, he held it up to Garrett, who took all the pieces of mutton except the piece of flap which I had seen him put on the scale board and put into the scale, and then into Dunford's basket—I have not said be put all the meat in except the mutton—(looking at her deposition)—this is my signature which I put after it was read over to me—(read)—"The prisoner Dunford then came into the shop with a basket in his band and held it up to Garrett, who took all the meat except the piece of flap which I had seen him put on the scale board, and he put into the scale and then into Dunford's basket, &c."—Dunford never spoke—(the deposition being further read stated, "Dunford also said he had bought it")—when I went into the shop he gave Garrett three half-pence, and said, "I have never seen him do anything wrong, and there is nothing wrong now."
COURT. Q. Did he put any meat into the scale except the flap of mutton? A. Nothing at all—I believe I expressed the same before the Magistrate—I meant to do so.
(Both prisoners received good characters.)
GARRETT— GUILTY . Aged 27.
Recommended to mercy
Confined Nine Month.
DUNFORD— GUILTY . Aged 45.
Recommended to mercy
Confined six Month.
Third Jury, before Mr. Recorder.
JOHN KNAGGS . I live in Mornington-crescent—the prisoner was in my service about six weeks—on the 11th of April I had my plate counted after the policeman came to the house, and missed two silver tea-spoons and one dessert-spoon—I found the prisoner in custody at the station.
FRANCIS CLARK MERRY . I am shopman to a pawnbroker in Grafton-street. On the 11th of April the prisoner offered three silver spoons in pledge for 8s.—they are worth about 30s.—she said she brought them from Mrs. Knight—she ran out of the shop as we threatened to send for an officer, as I doubted whether she came by them honestly.
MR. KNAGGS re-examined. These are my spoons.
Prisoner, I intended to redeem them this week; I wanted to take a gown out.
FREDERICK CLARK (policeman.) I apprehended the prisoner—Merry was questioning her when I went into the shop—I heard her say she lived in Gower-street—I took her down by Gower-street towards the station—she asked where we were going—I said if she lived in Gower-street she ought to know—she said she did not live there, but at Mornington-crescent, with Mr. Knaggs—I went there and he came to the station.
GUILTY . Aged 30.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Three Months.
NOT GUILTY .
No evidence offered.
NOT GUILTY .
BENJAMIN GARDINER , butcher Hungerford-market. I employed the prisoner on two Saturdays—on the second Saturday I missed a loin of mutton and kept a sharp look out—I saw a bulge round his smock-frock and called the beadle's attention to him—as soon as I came up he took the beef, two kidneys, some suet, and rump steak from his person, and said he was sorry for what he had done.
Prisoner. Just after we had packed up I happened to kick against the meat and put it under my frock; I was very much distressed; my wife and family were starving.
Witness. He could not have picked it up; it was under his frock and arm pits; had he asked me for it and more, I would have given it him; I was looking out for a situation for him; I have relieved his wife.
SAMUEL MATTHEWS . I am a constable of Hungerford-market. The prosecutor fetched me to his stall, and said to the prisoner, "You have got something about you "—the prisoner put his hand into his bosom and took out some beef, a kidney, and a small chop, and put them on the board.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 33.—Recommended to mercy,— Confined One Month.
THOMAS BANNISTER (police-constable S 90.) On the 12th of March I went into the shop of Mr. Merry, in Munster-street, and found the prisoner there, charged with offering a pair of shoes in pawn—I asked if they were hers—she said "Yes"—I said, "They are too small for you"—she said, "They are my landlady's, she employed me to pawn them to get money to buy fruit"—at the station house three duplicates and 3s. 6l., were found on her—she said she lived at No. 5, Southampton-place—I went there and found in a box which I opened with her key seven duplicates for boots and shoes.
JOHN SIMPSON . I am a boot and shoe-maker—these boots and shoes are my property—one pair in particular I had only bought on the Saturday—I do not know the prisoner—I do not give work to be done out of doors.
WILLIAM BLENNAM . I live with French and Co., Tottenham-court, road—I have a pair of woman's boots, pawned on the 4th of Jan.—and one pair of men's—the duplicates I gave for them are in the policeman's possession.
Prisoner, I beg for mercy; they were given to me by a boy.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Three Months ,
ANDREW WEMYS (policeman.) On the 11th of April I was on duty in plain clothes in Upper Wimpole-street, and saw Payne walking backward and forward—he then sat on the step of a door, got up and was talking to Wilson—they separated—Payne went into Wimpole-street, some distance, returned, and sat down again where Wilson was sitting—I went out of their sight into a shop for a short time, and soon after saw them both walking away together up Weymouth-street, I stopped them both—found three pots on Wilson, one in his hand under his apron, one in his trowsers, and one in his coat pocket—I found nothing on Payne.
MART WAYLAN . I live in Marylebone-court, and sell fruit at the corner of Weymouth-street—I saw Payne sit down on the step of a door, put his hand down an area-railing, and pull up a pot—he then walked to the corner of Wimpole-street, and soon after Wilson came to the step of a door, took up a pot, and put it under his apron or coat—the prisoners were in sight of each other, and appeared acting together—one took a pot and the other received it at the corner of Wimpole-street, and they walked off together—I saw the policeman and told him.
WILSON— GUILTY .
PAYNE— GUILTY .
Confined three months.
OLD COURT.—Wednesday, April 17th, 1844.
First Jury, before Edward Bullock, Esq.
SARAH NORRIS . I am servant to Mr. James Compton, of Cadogan-hotel, Sloane-street. On the 31st of March the prisoner came and said she came for a bottle of rum, and a bottle of gin, for Mr. Pugh, of 111, Sloane-street—I believed her story, and gave them to her.
Prisoner. I was sent by a person who I understood was Mr. Pugh.
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Two Months.
NOT GUILTY .
Fifth Jury, before Mr. Common Sergeant.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Two Yean.
LUKE REILLY . I live in Vittoria-terrace, Horsemonger-lane. On the 9th of March a clerk came to me at the Custom-house—I went with him to No. 9, Mark-lane, and found the prisoner Coyle there—I did not write this note, and know nothing of it—I asked Coyle who gave him the note—he said a man named Sands—I gave him in charge.
Cross-examined by MR. M'MAHON. Q. Do you know Sands? A. No.
SAMUEL THOMAS KNIGHT . I am clerk to Charles Wass and Co., No. 9, Mark-lane. On the 9th of March Coyle came to the counting-house, and said he was sent by Mr. Reilly with this note for the money—I did not give him the money, not considering it true—I fetched Mr. Reilly—Coyle told me Mr. Reilly had sent him with the note, and I should find him at Nicholson's Wharf; but I found him at the Custom-house—(note read)— Sir, Will you have the goodness to send a sovereign by bearer for me, as I have a few charges to pay; and, being short of cash, I shall take it as a great favour. I will return it to-morrow. L.
GEO. CROUCH (policeman.) I was fetched, and took Coyle; and on the Saturday, as I took him to Guildhall, be told me Sands gave him the letter; on Sunday morning I went to No. 9, Colonnade, Russell-square, and took Sands, and said, "Do you know Coyle?"—he said, "No"—I said, "Do you know Luke Reilly?"—he said, "Yes"—I took him—I knew him by having seen him in Mark-lane the day previous—I found a note in his pocket-book—as we came down Holborn, he cried, and said it was distress caused him to do it, he did not say what.
COYLE— GUILTY .— Confined Six Months.
SANDS— NOT GUILTY .
OLD COURT.—Thursday, April 18th 1844.
JURY before Edward Bullock, Esq.
GUILTY .— To enter into his own recognizance to appear to receive judgment when called upon.
GUILTY .— Confined Twelve Months.
Third Jury, before Mr. Recorder.
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Monday, April 8th, 1844.
Fifth Jury, before Edward Bullock, Esq.
ELIZA ASSEE . I am the wife of Solomon Asser. On the 2nd of March, about half-past four o'clock, I was in the Green-park, walking with two children—there was no crowd near me—the Queen was arriving at the time, and the people went to see her—I had a reticule on my arm, containing a card-case and a pocket-handkerchief—I saw a man standing by a tree, and a moment afterwards I felt a violent pull at my arm, and missed ray reticule—I saw the man running away with it in his hand—I should not know him, but I saw my reticule again, about six o'clock the same evening, at the station—this is it—I can swear to the handkerchief and the reticule, and I believe the card-case is mine.
GEORGE TOWNSEND (police-constable C 20.) I took the prisoner on the 2nd of March, just after six o'clock in the evening—I found this reticule in his right-hand trowsers' pocket, and these things in it—he said he knew nothing about it.
Prisoner's Defence. I was in the Park about half-past four o'clock, and picked up this reticule; I asked some ladies if they bad lost it, they said they had not. I found a handkerchief and a card-case in it; I put it into my pocket, and went on; I was not taken till past six; I had plenty of time to have got rid of it, if I had got it in a dishonest way.
NOT GUILTY .
1105. THOMAS PAGE was again indicted for stealing 1 reticule, value 1s.; 1 purse, 1s.;1 handkerchief, 1s.; 1 key, 2d.; and 1 shilling, the property of Susannah Corbyn, and that he had been before convicted of felony.
SUSANNAH CORBYN . I am single. On the 2nd of March I was going along Park-lane, about six o'clock—I had a reticule on my arm—a man snatched it away, and left the string on my arm—he ran down King-street-mews—I saw his figure, but not his face—this is my reticule.
Prisoner. Q. Did you run after the man? A. I did—he ran to the end of the mews before I lost sight of him—that might be 200 yards—I cried, "Stop thief!"—I did not see a policeman.
duty in Park-lane, about six o'clock—I saw the prisoner run from two ladies—he ran into King-street-mews—I heard the cry of "Stop thief," and pursued him—I did not lose sight of him—he was taken by another officer.
Prisoner, Q. Did you see me near the ladies? A. I saw you run from the ladies, about ten yards from them—I ran after you down the lane—I passed the ladies—I do not know whether they saw me—they might not—I pursued you more than a quarter of a mile—you ran through King-street, mews, and on to North Audley-street—I kept about ten yards from you all the way—I did not see you take the bag.
GEORGE TOWNSEND (police-constable C 26.) I took the prisoner in North Audley-street, in consequence of hearing a cry of "Stop thief," just after six o'clock—I saw him throw this reticule from his hand into the street—it was given to me by a lad.
Prisoner. Q. In what direction did I throw it? A. To the curbstone—it could not been changed by the person who picked it up—it was given to me as it was picked up—you threw it away after I had you in custody.
Prisoner. The prosecutrix swore she saw me run 200 yards, and down the mews, and the policeman swore he passed by the ladies; I think if he passed them, they could not have been off seeing him.
THOMAS MOORE . I am deputy-governor of the county jail of Gloucester—I produce a certificate of the prisoner's conviction, from the clerk of Assize for the county of Gloucester—(read)—the prisoner is the person.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Transported for Ten Years.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY . Aged 35.— Confined Twelve Months.
GUILTY . Aged 39.— Confined Twelve Months.
GEORGE WILLIAM NEWTON . I live at Hampton Court—I had some bantam fowls in my paddock on the 22nd of February—I saw them several times that day—the last time towards the evening—there is a house for them to go into—they had the range of the paddock, but could not get out, as it is surrounded with a close fence, and I had cut their wings—four were missed on Friday, the 23rd of February, but I was not there—I missed them on the 24th—I saw them again before the Magistrate, and knew them, from the way in which 1 had cut their wings.
JOHN STUCKEY . I live at Twickenham. On the 23rd of February the prisoners came to me—Lucas asked if I wanted to buy any bantams—I said, "I do not know, let me look at them"—they had them with them, and showed them to me—there were three hens and a cock—I bought them for 6s.—these are them—the prosecutor swore to them.
Lucas's Defence, I never had them in my possession.
LUCAS— GUILTY . Aged 17.
RINGHAM— GUILTY . Aged 18.
Confined Six Months.
1111. CAROLINE FOX was indicted for stealing 7lbs. weight of candles, value 3s. 6d.; 2lbs. weight of soap, 1s.; 1 1/2 lbs. weight of sugar, 1s.; 1 towel, 1s.; 1 bottle, 3d.; and 30 cherries, 3d.; the goods of John James, her master.
MRS. ESTHER JAMES . I am the wife of John James, of Brunswick-square—the prisoner was my cook for six months. On the night of the 2nd of March I found her in a state of intoxication, and I discharged her—she left about nine or half-past nine the same evening—this towel has my name on it in my own handwriting—these other things I have no doubt are mine—they were kept in my store-room, the key of which was kept in a closet in the dining-room—I think the prisoner could not have access to the key that day—on the Thursday following she returned for her clothes, and was given in charge—these articles were discovered on the Saturday night.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. Where was this cloth found? A. When I saw it again it was at the police-station with a basket tied up in it—she had had the cloth for her use.
JANE PRICE . I am servant next door to Mr. James. On the 2nd of March, at a quarter past nine o'clock at night, the prisoner came to our area-gate, rang the bell, and said to me, "Give me my basket, which I threw over into your garden"—(she could throw a basket there from Mr. James's)—I went into our garden and saw a basket containing soap and candles, and there were some candles out of the basket in the garden—I went back to the prisoner, and told her it was more than I dared to do, to give it her—she said, "Don't get me into trouble"—she went away—a policeman came and took the basket—this is it.
Cross-examined. Q. Did you observe whether she was in a state of drunkenness? A. No, I could not tell.
THOMAS SHIELDS (police-constable E 69.) At half-past nine o'clock at night, on the 2nd of March, I was called to the garden at No. 33, Brunswicksquare—I found this basket close against the garden-wall—it contained soap, candles, and this cloth, and there were some candles strewed about the garden.
Cross-examined. Q. Do you not know she had been some time with another lady before she came to you? A. I had a three years' character with her.
JOHN JAMES , Esq. I spoke about forgiving the prisoner before the Magistrate—she had been in custody four days, and I thought that was sufficient, but the Magistrate would not allow me to forego the prosecution.
GUILTY .—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Eight Days.
FERRAWAY pleaded GUILTY . Aged 13.— Confined One Month ,
EDWARD JOHN WHISTLER . My father has a pew in the south gallery of Enfield church—I was there on Sunday morning, the 24th of March, and at the close of the service I put four prayer-books into the drawer—two of them
belonged to me, one to my sister Ann, and one to my father, Edward Webster Whistler—I did not lock the drawer—on the following Sunday I found three of the books were missing—there was only one left, which was my father's—these are the books.
GEORGE PHIPPS . I am fifteen years old—my father lives at Enfield. On Thursday, the 28th of March, I was at a funeral at Enfield church—I was sitting in the pew behind Mr. Whistler—I saw the prisoners in his pew—I knew them well—I saw Ferraway stoop down to the drawer, and then each of the prisoners had a book in his hand—they were both together.
ALFRED ASPLAND . I keep a shop at Enfield. On Thursday afternoon, the 28th of March, Ellis came to me and asked if I bought old books—I said, yes—he fetched these three books, and said he brought them from his aunt—I bought them.
Ellis's Defence. I was going up the town, and met Ferraway; he said he found these books in the churchyard, and if I would not have them he would throw them away.
ELLIS— GUILTY . Aged 13— Confined One Month.
HENRY COLLINGS . I am a bookseller, and live in King-street, Longacre. On the 14th of March the prisoner came for a lodging—I let him a furnished room—he took possession about eight o'clock—the next morning I got up before him, and went to the place where he had referred me, and the people knew nothing of him—I returned home, went into the room I had let him, and missed some feathers out of the bed—I told him he had robbed my bed of the feathers—he said no he had not, feathers were of no use to him—my wife touched his pocket, and found some feathers in it in a handkerchief—he was taken to the station, and some more feathers found in his hat.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Two Months.
ARTHUR PEARSON . I live in George-street, Blackfriars, and am a cab driver. On the night of the 14th of March I was at a public-house in Union-street—I had a coat there lying on the seat in the tap-room—I saw three men there, but cannot say whether the prisoner was one—I missed my coat about ten minutes after—this is it.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. A. it is not of great value? A. No—there were some persons in the tap-room whom I had seen before, but I was not drinking with them—I saw my coat last about twenty minutes to twelve o'clock—I missed it before twelve o'clock.
CALEB GROVES (police-constable C 381.) I received information and took the prisoner, about a quarter before one o'clock, in Fisher-alley, with this coat on his back—I said, "Does this coat belong to you?"—he said, "I do not know, I am drunk"—he was then about 300 yards from where the coat was lost from.
Cross-examined. Q. Was not he very drunk? A. Yes; 1 supported
him—he said he believed some one put the coat on his back, but he did not know—I should say he was not in a state to know what he was about.
NOT GUILTY .
CHARLES SELLS . I am assistant to Messrs. Maudsley and Field, of Westminster-road. I was in Bridge-street, Blackfriars, about twenty minutes to seven o'clock at night on the 14th of March—I had a handkerchief in my pocket when I left home a quarter of an hour before—I felt something—I turned, and saw the prisoner behind me, walking the same way that I was, and he had my handkerchief in his hand—he was dropping it—I caught it—it dropped into my hand—a friend who was with me laid hold of him, but he got away, and ran—I then caught him, and gave him to a policeman—I had not lost sight of him.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. You turned sharp round and laid hold of him? A. My friend laid hold of him, and I took the handkerchief—I kept my attention on him, as he had the handkerchief.
WILLIAM LEWIS BAKER . I was with Mr. Sells—he called out—I turned, and the prisoner's hand, Mr. Sell's band, and the handkerchief were all together—I took him, but he got from me, and ran away—Mr. Sells pursued and took him—I never lost sight of him.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Four Months.
NEW COURT.—Tuesday April 9th, 1844.
Sixth Jury, before Mr. Common Sergeant.
GUILTY . Aged 26.— Confined Four Month.
JAMES FARRANT (policeman.) I found this chopper on the towing-path, under the bridge way on the canal side—I saw the prisoner put it out of his hand—he could not have picked it up, for I passed there not two minute before.
NOT GUILTY .
CHARLES GRAY . I placed this flannel inside the door of Mr. Chandler's shop on the morning of the 13th of March, and tied a piece of strong cord round it—the prisoners came to the door—I saw them looking at it for some time—they passed away quickly—I immediately ran out, and saw Smith with it under her cloak—Daley was close beside her, talking with her—there were four of them together—this is the flannel—it is Isaac Chandler's.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Is it in the same state as when taken? A. It is much about the same size—the prisoner were Walking two before, and two behind—the prisoners were in the door at the time
the flannel was taken—the other two were outside—the flannel dropped when I took hold of Smith.
SMITH— GUILTY . Aged 19.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Three Months.
DALEY— NOT GUILTY .
GEORGE SPARKS . I live in Swan-street, Minories. I saw this piece of hessian cloth safe, on the 20th of March, between ten and eleven o'clock in the morning—this is it—there are seventy-five yards and a half of it—I did not miss it till next morning—I know it by my mark upon it, "G. S."—it corresponds in quantity exactly with what I had.
HENRY FINNIS (City police-constable, No, 625.) About twenty minutes to eight o'clock in the evening, on the 20th of March, I saw the prisoner carrying this cloth on his shoulder in Hounds-ditch, about a quarter of a mile from the prosecutor's, and coming as if from there—I asked what he had got, and where he was going—he said, "Up this court"—he threw the cloth down, and van off—he was taken in my sight, and I took it up.
Prisoner. I was not the person that had it Witness. He had got about fifty yards from it before he was taken, but did not get out of my sight—I was close to him.
Prisoner's Defence. I Was going to purchase a jacket, and a man caught hold of me, hearing a cry of "Stop thief;" the officer came up and said, "I think you are the person;" it was dark, and he could not see me.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY . Aged.28.— Confined Four Months.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
ELIZABETH DOWDEN . I am the wife of James Dowden. In the morning of the 29th of March I hung some shirts out on the bush in my garden, at Hanwell—I saw them at nine o'clock in the evening—I forgot to take them in—these are them—they are my son's.
WILLIAM MULLINS (police-constable T 205.) On the 80th of March I Stopped the prisoner, on the road to Southall, at half-past five o'clock in the afternoon, with these shirts, which were wet—he said they had been given him.
GUILTY . Aged 48.— Confined Three Months.
ELIZABETH GEORGE . I live in City-terrace, City-road. On the 18th of March, between twelve and one o'clock, I was in Alderagate-street, near Jewin-street—I had a purse in my hand containing 16s. in half-a-crown, shillings, and sixpences—the purse was snatched from my band by a man—I did not see his face—the prisoner was brought back within five minutes, and he was dressed as the man who snatched my purse—this is ray purse, and this, brooch was in it—the moment he snatched it he was gone.
WILLIAM NORMAN . I live in Hook-court, Snow-hill, I was in Aldersgate-street, and saw the prisoner and another in company—the prosecutrix went along, and the other man, named Smith, looked into her hand—she went into a shop—they waited about till she came out—she got some distance on, and the prisoner snatched the purse out of her hand, and ran away—Smith followed some distance behind in the mob—I am sure the prisoner is the man that snatched the purse—he ran to Jewin-crescent, and I hallooed "Stop thief"—he ran round the Crescent, and was taken when I came up.
Prisoner's Defence. I had bad a job from Billingsgate to Smithfield, and my master told me to make baste borne; I was running, I beard some person cry, "Stop thief" and they said I robbed the lady, but I am quite innocent.
GUILTY . Aged 25.— Transported fot Ten Years ,
JOHN BARK . I live in Maiden-court, Broad-wall, Lambeth. About half-past eight o'clock, on the 18th of March, I was in Barbican—I saw the shadow of some one close behind me—I turned, and saw the prisoner with my handkerchief in his hand—I told him he had my handkerchief—he said I was a liar, and dropped it—I took it up—he ran off—the policeman fetched him back—I had seen the handkerchief not a quarter of an hour before—the prisoner said he was going along, and three men who were walking by the side of him, drew it out, and dropped it—there was only a young man just before me.
THOMAS KENNARD (City police-constable, No. 245.) The prisoner said there were three persons passed—the prisoner had only got across the road, and the prosecutor had the handkerchief in his band, and pointed him out.
GUILTY .† Aged 18.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Six Months.
GUILTY . Aged 25.—Recommended to merey.— Confined Six Months
WILLIAM CHEESE PURCER . I live with my mother, Caroline Clarissa Purcer. Between eleven and twelve o'clock, on the 12th of March, I saw the prisoner take a pair of trowsers from a nail inside our shop door—I ran, and caught him—he threw them down, but I never lost night of him.
Prisoner's Defence. I passed the shop; I saw a lad throw down these trowsers; I took them up.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Three Months.
JOHN KELLY . I am in the service of Thomas Wolstenholme and another, pawnbrokers. On the 9th of March I saw the prisoner put her hand into the shop door, take a shirt off, put it into her apron, and go off—the policeman, who was in the shop, fetched her back with it.
Prisoner, I was looking at another article on the under bar; the shirt fell down, and I picked it up. Witness. She had got six or seven yards from the shop.
GUILTY . Aged 44.
JOHN KELLY . On the 8th of March I missed a pair of boots from the same place where the shirt hung, the duplicate of them was found on the prisoner—I went to Mr. Brown's, a pawnbroker, in Fetter-lane, and there J found the boots—they are my master's, Thomas Wolstenholme and another.
Prisoner's Defence. A strange woman came and asked me to pawn them—I gave her the money, and she asked me to keep the tickets.
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Transported for Seven Years
GEORGE SMITH . I keep the Olive Branch, in Marylebone. On the 15th of Feb. the prisoner inquired for a bed—I said he could have half a bed for 6d., which he gave me—he went into my tap-room, and smoked a pipe till half-past nine o'clock, when the boy lighted him up to his room—in the morning he was going out, and the officer met him—my little boy's things were safe in the room when the prisoner went to bed—I missed in the morning two coats and one pair of trowsers—I saw them safe about seven in the evening before.
Prisoner. I spoke to you in the bar. Witness. Yes, but I saw nothing with you; you could have come down without my seeing the whole of your body; I was behind my beer-engine.
GEORGE SMITH , Jun. I saw these things safe in the closet about seven o'clock in the evening before—the prisoner went to bed about ten—my mother was the only person who had been in the room before the prisoner—George Richards slept there—the prisoner went away about ten in the morning, and Richards about seven, and I missed the things about eleven.
to the bed—I saw him the next morning with a blue bundle in his hand—he had none the night before—he said he was going to sleep there again, and said, "Will you take a glass of ale?"—I said, "Thank you, I will"—we went into the public-house—he went in and saw a name of Croft, a tailor, on the opposite side—he said, "Call for a pint of ale, I am going over to the tailors, I will come back"—I waited half an hour—he did not come—I went to Mr. Croft's, and they did not know him.
Prisoner. I never saw this man in my life till I was at the office.
NOT GUILTY .
SAMUEL YOUNG . I keep a coffee-shop in High-street, Shoreditch. On the 15th or 16th of Jan. the prisoner came to my house—he asked me whether he could be accommodated with a bed—I said yes—he sat down and had some cold meat and a pint of porter—he retired to bed about eleven—there was a pair of sheets on the bed—next morning he came down at half-past nine—he said, "I have laid it out this morning, but my profession or business does not require my rising very early; I have been accustomed to take my drops of a morning; get me a beef-steak, I will be back in a few minutes"—he went out, and never returned.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not go out that evening to the public-house, and bring in a young man, who said be had not 6l., to pay his lodging, but he would pay you the next night? A. I cannot charge my memory with it—you said a stout short young man slept in the room, but it is not my rule to let people go to bed till they have paid.
MARY ANN LAMBETH . I recollect the prisoner sleeping at the house—I went up directly after he left—the sheet was turned over the "bed—I went down, and said it was all right—two or three hours after I went to make the bed, and the top sheet had been taken off, and the bottom one turned over the top—no one had been in the room that night but the prisoner—he came down the last—no other person went into the room after be went that morning.
Prisoner. Q. Were there two beds in the room? A. Two, but only one bed appeared to have been slept in.
Prisoner's Defence. I never saw the sheet; I did not order breakfast.
NOT GUILTY ,
MARGARET JANE WOODGATE . I live with my mother and brother—they keep the Bell Inn, Friar-street, Southwark. On the 23rd of Feb. the prisoner came for a bed—he was shown to one—no other person lodged at the house that night—there were three rooms on a floor—next morning I received information, and there was one pair of sheets gone from the next room to the one the prisoner slept in—the end of the sheet was turned over, and one sheet brought from No. 10 room, and put into No. 9—the bolster was covered as if with a pair of sheets—there was no person to take them but the prisoner—I am positive he was the only lodger in the house.
Prisoner. You saw me in the morning when I went out. Witness. No, I was not up.
Prisoner. Q. Did you answer the bell when I rung? A. Yes—you went
down to the bar, and stopped a good bit—I looked at your room, and it was all right—I had no idea of going into the other rooms.
GUILTY . Aged 40.— Transported for Seven Years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
MR. CLARKSON conducted the Prosecution.
WILLIAM HALKSWORTH , watchmaker, Fleet-street. On Saturday, the 9th of March, I was called down, and found the prisoner in my shop—I attended to him—he asked to look at a particular lever watch, marked six guineas—I showed it to him, he asked me to wind it up, and if I could warrant it—I wound it up, and he said there was another next to it in the window—he asked to look at it—my young man took it down—the one that was wound up was on the glass when he looked at the other—he asked me to wind the other up, and while I was in the act of looking for a key to wind that up, be went out at the shop-door, with the other one which I had wound up—my apprentice went after him—I have not the slightest doubt about the prisoner's person—the watch was produced to me afterwards by Mr. Baker—this is the watch I showed him, and the one he went out of the door with.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. A. You had never seen him before? A. No—he was in my sight five or six minutes—he was brought back to the station in three or four minutes—I am sure he is the person.
WILLIAM HALKSWORTH ELLIOTT . I am the prosecutor's nephew, and am apprenticed to him—the prisoner came and looked at a watch—my uncle turned to look for a key—he took up this watch and went to the door, as if to show a person—he went out—I went out, and never lost sight of him—I called, "Stop thief," and he was stopped at the corner of Water-lane by a lot of boys, about 600 yards from my uncle's—I delivered him to the policeman.
JOHN SCOTT , journeyman baker, York-street, Kentish-town. I saw the prisoner run out of the prosecutor's shop, and run down Water-lane—I ran after him—I heard something drop from him, and found a watch at the place where I heard something fall—I gave it to Barns.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined One Year.
(There were two other indictments against the prisoner.)
GUILTY . Aged 15.— Confined Ten Days, and Whipped.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Three Months
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Six Months
Prisoner. Q. You say you missed it in Fleet-street? A. I missed it when I got to Cannon-street—I had been walking in Fleet-street.
WILLIAM WITTINGHAM . I live in City-gardens—I was with Phillips on the 25th of March—I saw the prisoner and three others closing up to the prosecutor, who was going along Fleet-street—I saw one of them take up the prosecutor's coat-pockets with his right band, take out the book with his left hand, and give it to the next one that was with him, and he gave it to the prisoner, who was covering the other two—the prisoner shoved it under his jacket—I waited till he came across, and then I took him by the back of the neck, and gave him into custody—directly I seized him, he put his hand inside his jacket, took out the book, and threw it down.
Prisoner, You asked, when you laid hold of me, if I had gat it. Witness, I did not.
JOHN PHILIPS . I am a glass-dealer, and live in City-garden with Wittingham—I was going up Fleet-street at half-past two o'clock on the 25th of March, and saw the prisoner and three or tour others attempting to rob the prosecutor—I called Wittingham's attention to it, and we saw one of them take the book with his left hand and hand it to another, and he to the prisoner, who came across and was seized—he threw the book down—I took it up and gave it to the officer.
Prisoner's Defence. I saw three or four persons," one of them threw it down in a door way; I took it down in a doorway; I took it up.
GUILTY . Aged 23— Confined One Year ,
JOHN BALDWIN , woollen-draper, Cornhill. I am in partnership with Henry Baldwin, and had twenty-seven yards and a quarter of black kerseymere—I saw it safe at twelve o'clock on the 2nd of April—I missed it two hours after—this is it—it has marks on it which T can swear to.
ABRAHAM GARKSR . I am a collector in the service of a person on Cornhill—about half-past one o'clock on the 2nd of April I was passing Cornhill, I saw the prisoner with a piece of kerseymere under his arm—I thought it suspicions and gave him in charge—he was on the run—I called to a person to stop him, and when I came to him he had dropped the cloth.
Prisoner. I did not have it in my possession.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY Aged 31.— Confined Three Months.
MART ANN DIXON . I am the wife of Henry Dixon, of Charterhouse-street. About six o'clock on the 20th of March the prisoners came to my shop to look at some bonnet shapes—after trying several on Jackson said none would suit her—then Smith said she saw one that she thought would suit her—I got on a chair to get it, and directly I got down I saw the board moved from the window, and Jackson turning her back said, "There is nothing here that will suit us"—she was going out before Smith had got her bonnet on—on her turning from the counter I missed the stays from the window—I ran and shut the door and said she should not go out until I got a policeman—I sent my little boy over to Mr. Winter—we sent for a policeman, and during that time Jackson shifted something under her cloak and dropped the stays behind her—she then went to where Smith was—Smith put her foot and pushed them to the corner of the window.
CHARLES WINTER . I was fetched, and saw the prisoners near the counter—I saw Jackson had something under her cloak—I said, "You had better send for a policeman," and while he was gone for the bundle was gone—Smith kicked the stays up against the counter, up in the corner, but I did not see them dropped.
Jackson's Defence. I did not go to buy anything; I went with Smith.
Smith's Defence. There was one shape in the window; I asked the price, and she would not tell me, but wanted me to try some others and they would not fit me; she said I had stolen a pair of stays, and then she searched Jackson.
JACKSON— GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined One Year.
SMITH— GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Six Months.
EMMA SARAH TOWERZEY . I am servant at Charles Longland's stay-shop, Britannia-row, Hoxton. On the 9th of March, about five o'clock in the evening, these stays hung inside his shop—these are them—I missed them.
Prisoner. Q. How do you know them? A. I made them—I am certain they were not sold—I cut them out about a week before.
ARTHUR PASCOE (police-constable N 141.) About eight o'clock in the evening, on the 9th of March, I was on duty in the Lower-road, Islington, and saw the prisoner in King-street—I said, "What have you there?"—she said, "Nothing," and ran away—I stopped her, and found these stays—she said she had nothing to fear, she came by them honestly—at the station she said she bought them in Petticoat-lane—I went in the direction from which she came, and found they had been stolen from the prosecutor's.
Prisoner. The policeman asked me several times to meet him. Witness I did not—she did not say she wanted to run to stop the person she bought them of.
GUILTY. Aged 18,—Confined One Year.
1140. MARGARET GRAHAM was indicted for stealing 1 cloak, value 4s.; and 1 tippet, 1s.; the goods of James Cowley, from the person of James Cowley, jun.
MATILDA WRIGHT . I am aunt to James Cowley, jun.—he is three years and four months old, and lives with his father, James Cowley. I was on a visit at my sister's on the 16th of Jan.—I put the child's cloak and tippet on his back, and gave him a halfpenny to go next door and buy some sweets.—he came back, and I said he might play opposite the window—I watched him, and then I left the window for a short time—I ran into the street, and could not see him—I ran into the Kingsland-road, and saw the child, with his cloak and tippet on—a gentleman had hold of him.
ELIZA SILLEY . I am the wife of Henry Silley, and live in Moon-street, Hackney. About half-past five o'clock, on the 16th of Jan., I was walking down Middleton-road, and heard the child cry—I saw the prisoner kneeling down to it under the wall—I heard her say to him, "Wait a little while, I will come to you"—I still staid, and then she came near me, and turned, and went back to the child—I followed and said, "What is the matter with the child?"—she said, "Nothing"—I said, "That is not your child".—she said, "Yes, it is"—I said, "It is not"—I took the cloak and tippet from under her arm—I cried., "Police," and heard footsteps—an old man came up—I seized her arm, and never let her go till I got her to Kingsland-road, and gave her in charge—she previously begged me to forgive her—the child was crying with cold.
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Four Months.
NEW COURT.—Wednesday, April 10th, 1844.
Fifth Jury, before Mr. Common Sergeant.
GUILTY . Aged 24.— Confined Three Months.
GUILTY . Aged 39.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Three Months.
GUILTY , Aged 47.— Confined One Month
1145. HENRY CROSSLEY was indicted for stealing 1 pair of boots, value 5s., the goods of William Underwood; also, 1 pair of steel-yards, 5., the goods of Samuel Roberts; and that he had been before convicted of felony; to all which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY . Aged 31— Confined Six Months.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Three Months.
WILLIAM HENRY BEATON . I live at Camden-town. On the night of the 8l. of March the prisoner accosted me in the Hampstead-road—she asked for drink—I said I would have nothing to do with her, and I had nothing to give her—soon after I met a policeman I knew, and asked him to take something to drink, and got into conversation with him—I met the prisoner again—she persuaded me to give her something to drink, and I did, out of that which I gave the policeman—this was in the street—I never saw her before—I then took the cup into the public-house, and wished the policeman good night—when I came out, the prisoner was waiting, and followed me some distance-shortly after she left me, and within five minutes I missed my watch—I went back, and informed the policeman, and within the hour he found her in Mary-street, Hampstead-road—she said she had not seen the watch, and in the meantime it dropped from her person—this is it.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. You have not told us what you are? A. A verger at Camden-town chapel—I was talking to her sometime before this gin was brought out of the public-house—I swear that I did not go into any public-house with her—I never said I did—I had 7l. or 8l. in my pocket, and a little silver in my right-hand pocket—I did not have four or five glasses of gin—I gave the prisoner one glass—I took a quartern of gin out—I did not talk of going with her—it was about eleven o'clock at night—this is my handwriting—(looking at his deposition)—read—"I went into a public house with her, and gave her something to drink"—nothing passed be-tween us about giving her money, that 1 swear upon my oath—I did not tell her I had no money, nor talk to her about pledging my watch.
JAMES HARROD (police-constable S 179.) I was called, and found the prisoner—I told her she was given into custody for stealing the watch—she said she knew nothing at all about it, and had not seen it—the prosecutor said, "I give her into custody, she does know about it;" and then she dropped it from her person—the prosecutor was quite sober.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Three Month.
MR. MAGUIRE conducted the Prosecution.
HARRIET LITTLEWOOD . I am the wife of James Littlewood, and live at Feltham. On the morning of the 12th of March I was at my own door, and saw the prisoners playing before our house—Collins came up and asked me for a nail for his spin-top—I said I had not got one, my master was not at home—he turned the corner of my house—I shut my door, and went out to my neighbours—in a few minutes I came back, and missed my money from the drawer—there had been thirty-three fourpenny-pieces, and some sixpences and shillings—they were safe not five minutes before—the money was wrapped up in these boxes.
THOMAS BERNE (police-constable V 223.) I was called by Mrs. Littlewood—I received information, took Collins, and locked him up—Scott had made his escape from Little wood—he showed me some marks in the garden—I went to the cage again, and found Collins wiping his feet—I made him go to the garden and put his foot down by the side of the marks that had been made, and they corresponded exactly—they were marks of bare feet, and his toes were open—the garden leads to the house by a back door, and there were some bricks broken off the wall where they got over—it was about three o'clock in the afternoon—the marks appeared recently made—there had been a heavy rain the night before, but it was very dry that morning.
HARRIET LITTLE WOOD re-examined. This garden is behind the house—I had been out that morning in the garden—the back door was open when I went out—no one could come into the garden without climbing over.
ELIZA WITTOCK . I live at Feltham. On Tuesday morning, the 12th of March, Scott came between ten and eleven o'clock, and asked me for a pennyworth of bread—I said I had no small bread, and he went away—he returned in about half an hour, and asked me to change a fourpenny-piece—Collins was at the gate waiting for Scott, and they went away together.
MARTHA WILD . I am a widow, and live at Feltham. On this day Collins came to me for a pennyworth of tobacco—he gave me a fourpenny-piece—after that he asked me for change for another fourpenny-piece, and then he went away—I did not see Scott.
NOT GUILTY .
JOSEPH THOMPSON . I am chief mate of the brig Mervin. On the 9th of March it was on the Regent's-canal—about nine o'clock that night I took the prisoners with these two bags of rope in a coal-barge alongside the brig Mervin—it was Josiah Batchelor Gibson's rope—he is the owner of the Mervin—the prisoners told the policeman that a little boy had sold the rope to them.
THOMAS DAWSON . I am a seaman on board the Robertson, lying alongside the Mervin. At a quarter past nine o'clock that night I was called over into the brig—I went in and saw the two prisoners, each lying on a bag of rope—I called for assistance, and the boy called out that they belonged to our ship.
Jones. I know nothing about it.
Warren. I was walking over the bridge, and saw these two bags of rope in the barge.
JONES— GUILTY . Aged 16,
WARREN— GUILTY . Aged 17.
Confined Three Months.
ISAAC HARRIS . I am ship's carpenter, belonging to the brig Dart. At half-past three o'clock in the afternoon of the 6th of April, I was crossing Tower-street—the prisoner met me—I had never seen him before—he asked me to go into the King's Head to have a glass of ale with him—I said I wanted to make the best of my way home, and did not want any—he came on the other side of me, and forced roe to go in—he would not sit down stairs, but took roe into a room up stairs—he said he was an entire stranger, and I said-so was I—another
person then came in and sat on the opposite side of the table—he drew round, and sat by me, and said he was a stranger, and he had been receiving 756l.—we then drank a glass of ale together; the stranger then said, "You have got a handsome little basket there"—I said, "Yes"—he said, "I should like to have it"—I said, "It is rather an encumbrance to me, I will give it you"—he said he would not have it a present, be would make us a present of a sovereign each—he said his lawyer took him into a place where were ten or a dozen people were sitting, and they took out their money to show that they were respectable people—he said it was customary to show money to show that persons were respectable—he showed his money, and the prisoner showed his; and then he said to me, "Take out what you have got," and I showed him two sovereigns, a half-sovereign, and a 5l. note—he said, "That will do"—the prisoner then gave his money to the stranger, and I gave him my money, he was going to give me another sovereign with it, and to put it into a purse for me—he did not return me the purse with my money in it as he did to the prisoner, but took this other purse from under a handkerchief, and gave it me—it had four bad sovereigns in it, and a 5l. flash note—I thought it was not right—the stranger got up to go, and went out—I got up to stop him—the prisoner took up the purse with my money, which had fallen down, and gave it me, and said, "It is all right"—I said, I did not think it was—I seized the prisoner, and detained him—I was then going to show the note out of the purse which the stranger gave me—(it was a flash note)—the prisoner took it up and eat it—I then would not show any more till I was at the station—my 5l. note, and the two sovereigns and a half were in the purse which the prisoner picked up and gave me—the sovereign which the stranger put in with it was a bad one.
RICHARD JAMES BUTCHER . I was in the parlour of the King's Head about four o'clock in the afternoon on the 8th of April—the prisoner and the prosecutor came in and called for a pint of ale—in three or four minutes a stranger came in and called for a glass of ale—he drew his chair round so as to place the prosecutor between the prisoner and himself, and then he said his lawyer told him it was usual to show money to see that they were respectable persons—the stranger said he would make them a present of a sovereign each to buy a new hat—he asked the prisoner for his money, which he gave him, and he put it into a purse with another sovereign—whether he handed it to him or not I do not know—he then asked the prosecutor for his money, which he gave him and put it into a purse, and a sovereign too—he then put his hands under a handkerchief, and was looking for another purse—the prosecutor said he was robbed, and ran to the door—the other two rushed to the door also—the prisoner then gave the prosecutor the other purse, and told him to make no noise—the other one got down—the prisoner tried to get down, but the prosecutor seized him, and still held him, and would not let him go.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Transported for Seven Years
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTNTINE. Q. At what time? A. Between six and half-past six in the morning—I was at a public-house when the prisoner came and asked for the money again, in about half an hour—I told him I had paid him—he said, "Edwards, have you got any money for master?"—I said I had paid him once—he said, "It is no use to try and bounce me in that way"—several other cabmen were present—I did not say I had got
change of Dixon for the purpose of paying him—I will wear be did not charge me with not having paid before I got to the public-house—when I paid him he was in the stable—he said, "We will see about some money now," and I gave him 5s. in his hand—he sat on the corn-bin—we went to the public-house, and then back to the stable, and then he said I had not paid him, and turned out his money to show that I had not—I did nor say a word to my master till I heard he had made a complaint—I had been twice to my master's house—he was not up—I have never been in trouble—I have driven a cab five years—I was a coach-painter before—I should think there were a dozen persons at the public-house.
Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A. A cab-washer—Edwards brought me forward first on the second examination—I had heard it mentioned in the morning by the prisoner—Mr. Beard asked me to come forward—Edwards had not said any thing to me about the money before, Mr. Beard—he only asked me if I would come up and say what I saw—he did not mention what I saw—I have not got any thing from Edwards, only 3d. a morning for washing the cab.
THOMAS BEARD . I am a cab proprietor. The prisoner received money for me from the cab men—it was his duty to pay me every morning—if he re-ceived 5s. from George Edwards he has not paid, me that, or 6s. from Thatcher, or 6s. from Dodson—he has received other monies as well.
Cross-examined. Q. I believe the whole amount is about 3l.? A. Yes—he told me on the 13th, about seven o'clock in the morning, that Edwards had not paid him—I was up at five o'clock that morning—I had not given direc-tions to be denied to any one that morning—any one might have seen me who had come to my shop—I then went to the stable, and there the prisoner told me that—I first heard of the loss of the remaining sums of money on Wednesday, the day that Thatcher paid him—it was his duty to pay roe on the Thursday—he told me he did not know what had become of the other sums of money, that he had been out with other men, and one of them went away, and after that he missed his money—he did not say that Edwards was among the men.
COURT. Q. Then he admitted the receipt of the money from Thatcher and Dodson, and said he had lost the money? A. Yes.
NOT GUILTY .
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You are speaking of Aug.,1842? A. Yes—I have not seen the prisoner since, till he was taken—he was advertised in the Police Gazette—on the day before this he went out in a horse and cart—an omnibus ran against the cart, which was turned over, and they were all thrown out—he came home rather tipsy—I spoke to him about it the next morning—I
think he paid me 10l. as the produce of the journey—I do not know where he has been living.
HENRY LATCHFORD (police-constable L 87.) I took the prisoner in York-street, York-road—he said that the money which he had received he had got drunk with, spent part of it, and the other part he lost.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 34.— Confined Three Months.
WILLIAM JAMES LEWIS . I am shopman to Sarah Cordwell, of Clerkenwell—on the 3rd of Oct. I saw the prisoner and another outside her window—the prisoner was handling a telescope—the other shielded him by holding his coat out, and the prisoner went off with it—I and a young man followed and took him—while scuffling, the telescope fell from him—we took it up, and he escaped—I am sure he is the person.
WILLIAM BIRD . I saw the prisoner and another man at my shop, and watched them to the prosecutor's—I saw the other man put his coat up—the prisoner took the telescope and put it in his bosom—I am sure he is the man.
Prisoner. I picked it up with no intention of taking it away.
Witness. He had got about three doors off.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined One Year
MR. BALLANTINE conducted the Prosecution,
ANN DAVIS . I am the wife of John Davis, and live in Devonshire-square. I went with my daughter to the terminus of the Northern and Eastern Railway, on the 6th of March, about half-part three o'clock in the afternoon, to go to Waltham—we got into a first class carriage—there were three persons opposite me—I knew them all—the prisoner came and took a seat on my right side, between me and my daughter—I had a purse in my right pocket—the other three seats were taken—the train stopped at Stratford, and the prisoner hastened out, opening the door himself, and left it open—something was said by the Company's officer—I looked and found my petticoat and pocket were cut, and my purse gone—there were three sovereigns and a half sovereign, eight shillings, and a threepenny-piece in it—neither of the persons opposite leaned towards me—it was impossible that they could have cut my pocket.
Cross-examined by MR. WILKINS. Q. When did you feel your purse safe? A. At the terminus when I paid—I then put my purse into my pocket and went immediately from the office to the carriage—no other person got in or out but those I have named.
PHILIP SMITH . I am a tutor at Cheshunt College. I sat opposite the prosecutrix—I saw the prisoner—he had a dark cloak on—when we got to Stratford he left the carriage—I did not cut the prosecutrix's pocket, and did not see the others, who were ladies, cut it.
LEWIS PORTCH , Inspector of the Eastern Counties Railway. On the 6th of March, I saw the prisoner get in and seat himself between the two ladies—I had seen him before—it is my duty to remain at Shore-ditch, but on this occasion I went down—when we got to Stratford I saw the prisoner hurrying away—I spoke to the lady, and then followed the prisoner—he was between walking and running from the carriage—he saw I was pursuing him, and then he ran—I followed him—I came up after he was caught—he ran in the direction in which the purse was afterwards found.
Cross-examined. Q. How near did he go to where it was found? A. About a foot.
(property produced and sworn to.)
GUILTY . Aged 50.— Transported for Ten Years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
1156. AMOS BULLEN was indicted for stealing 1 pair of boots, value 14s.; 2 shirts, 6s.; 2 shirt fronts, 2s.; 3 handkerchiefs, 4s.; 3 pairs of stockings, 5s.; 1 plane, 3s. 6d.; 1 box, 1s.; 2 coats, 5l.; 2 waistcoats, 1l.; 2 pairs of trowsers, 2l.; 2 hammers, 4s.; 1 square, 2s.; 1 saw, 4s.; 2 screwdrivers, 3s.; 2 chisels, 1s. 6d.; 1 mallet, 1s.; and 2 gimlets, 1s.; the goods of William Blagg; and that he had been before convicted of felony.
WILLIAM BLAGG , joiner, Dover-road, On Wednesday night, the 27th of March, I came by the railway from Nottingham—my brother met me at Euston-square—he put my things into a cart, and drove to Smithfield—we left the cart about half-past ten o'clock, and went into a public-house for about a quarter of an hour—when I came back my box, which contained the articles stated, was gone—I went to the police office and saw the prisoner and the box there.
JOSEPH CALDWELL (City police-constable, No. 211.) At half-past eleven o'clock on the night of the 27th of March, I saw the prisoner carrying this box along Smithfield—I sent Humphries to meet him, and he took him in my presence, and took him to the station—this is the box—I saw him about ten yards from the cart, about three minutes before he was taken—he said a stout man employed him to carry it to the corner of Old-street, but he did not know the man, nor where he was to take it.
Prisoners Defence. A man came and asked if I would carry his box, I said yes.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Transported for Seven Years
1157. ROBERT POTTS, THOMAS RAWLINSON , and EDWARD ROBOTHAM were indicted for stealing 2 sixpences, 4 pence, and 2 halfpence, the monies of Frederick Sunderland Mallett; and that Robotham had been before convicted of felony.
FREDERICK SUNDERLAND MALLETT . I am inmate of the West London Union workhouse. On the 12th March I went out—I returned at ten o'clock, and went to bed—the three prisoners came to my bed and took ray clothes from under my pillow and took two sixpences, four penny pieces, and two half-pence out of my pocket—one of the half-pence I can swear to—I did not see which took them out—Rawlinson took the things, and the other two
were alongside of my bed—I ran down stairs and alarmed the watchman—the trowsers were found on my bed, but the money was gone—this is the half-penny I can swear to.
GEORGE SMEETON . I am an inmate of this house—the prisoners attacked me first, and took my clothes, and took what I had out of them—then they waited till Mallett came, Robotham got out of his bed and ran to Mallett's bed—Robotham and Pott stood by him—Rawlinson ran away with his trowsers.
MICHAEL YOUNG . I am in the Union—I heard the prisoner say, "When Mallett comes up I will hold his hand, and one shall go to his bed, and the other ransack his pockets"—they all arose from their bed, and went to Mallett's bed, they ran from the one end of the room to the other, and then brought the clothes back again.
Robotham. Q. Who was the money given to? A. It was handed from Rawlinson to Potts, and from Potts to you.
POTTS— GUILTY . Aged 19.
RAWLINSON— GUILTY . Aged 24.
Confined six months.
ROBOTHAM— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Seven Years.
MARY STANLY . I am servant to Benjamin Skelton, and live in High-street, Marylebone. At half past nine o'clock in the evening of the 12th of March, I was behind the counter, and saw the prisoner come on the step of the door, put his hand in, and take a desk off some others—I called to my master, who ran after him—he put the desk down on the step of a door—I am sure I saw him put it down—it is my master's.
Prisoner. Q. Did you lose sight of me? A. Not at all.
BENJAMIN SKELTON . I received information and ran out, and saw a person resembling the prisoner—I pursued—when I got to the corner, I met him coming coolly back, as if he had not been running at all—the street being clear, I took him, and charged him with taking a box from my shop—he asked me, "What box?"
Prisoner. Q. Did I turn the corner of Paddington-street? A. Yes—but I had seen you running, and to the best of my belief you are the person who turned the corner.
Prisoner. I never was near the shop, I was walking quickly up the street.
GUILTY .* Aged 18.— Confined One Year.
MARY ANN KING . I am in the service of Susannah Francis, of Great Ormond-street. On the 15th of March, the prisoner came to me, and asked for a sirloin of beef, which he said his master had sent by mistake—I gave it to him—I am sure he is the man.
Prisoner. Q. How do you know me? A. By your face—you had a tray with the initials "G. C." on it—it was between twelve and one o'clock, and
I waited till two, and no meat had arrived—I then went the batcher's, and he sent another person with some.
GEORGE CUTTRESS (police-constable E 58.) I took the prisoner, from the description of the servants—he said he worked for Mr. Cook of Clerken-well, and when he got to the station, he said he only worked for himself—he had this tray with him, marked "G. C."
Prisoner. I was at the end of Torrington-square; you caught hold of me, and asked where I lived, 1 said at Clerkenwell, with Mr. Cook and Mr. Phillips. Witness, I saw you near St. Pancras-church—I saw you follow two batchers, and then I stopped you—I went to Mr. Phillips—he said you worked for him, but he heard you was convicted of stealing mutton.
GUILTY . Aged 23
HENRY WATLING . butcher, Marchant-street. On the 27th of Jan. I sent Mrs. Pridden a leg of mutton, of 10lbs. weight—the next morning the servant came to know why I had not sent the other leg of mutton—I did not send the prisoner to get that leg back.
MARI ANN BARNARD . I am in the service of Ann Pridden. On the 27th of Jan. the prisoner came, and said Mr. Watling would be much obliged to me to let him have the leg of mutton back, as he bad sent it by mistake, and sent ours to Woburn-place, and he would bring me another in five minutes—he had a tray—it had only been left five minutes.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Transported for Seven Years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Six Months.
GUILTY . Aged 30.— Confined Three Months.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Three Months.
GILLIGAN pleaded GUILTY . Aged 10— Confined Three Months, and Two Weeks in solitude.
WELDON pleaded GUILTY . Aged 10.— Confined Ten Days, and Whipped.
1165. JEREMIAH COWAN and JAMES ENGLAND were indicted for stealing 38lbs. weight of lead, value 14s.; the goods of William Holland and others; and fixed to a certain building; against the Statute, &c.—2nd COUNT, not stating it to be fixed; to which
ENGLAND pleaded GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Four Months.
JAMES KERR , baker, Cambridge-street, Golden-square. From information, I went on the top of my house, and saw England going from my house to another house, with a large piece of lead—I called to him—he stopped with it—he
went over the wall, and down by a Ladder, and by that time Cowan was on the top of the house, and I took him.
Cross-examined by MR. HORRY. Q. While you were talking to England did not Cowan come to you? A. Yes, from the front of the house—he asked England what he had brought him there to do, and said he was England's labourer.
GEORGE STRATTON . I went to the top of the house, and met England with a piece of lead—he said he was going; to take it to where he was at work—Cowan was just behind the chimney, on the roof, looking round—he came up, and said he was employed by England—we walked across two or three houses, and discovered two or three more pieces of lead had been taken off my house—England was looking about to see the place to go down—Mr. Kerr said, "What are you looking for?"—he said, "D——you, do you think I am going to jump off?"—he looked about, saw the ladder, and went down—I went to Mr. Holland's house, which is ten doors off, and this lead appears to fit there exactly—Cowan was coming from that same direction—I found this hammer in front of my house.
COWAN— NOT GUILTY .
JAMES THOMAS . I am apprentice to Thomas Matthews, linen-draper, High-street, Aldgate. We bad a roll of flannel on the 21st of March—I saw it safe about an hour before we lost it—the policeman brought it back—it is my master's—I can swear to it.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Three Months.
ELIZABETH HATHAWAY . I am the wife of Richard Hathaway; we live in Euston-place. About half-past eight o'clock on the night of the 12th of March, I had this bacon safe—I missed it two minutes after—I am sure it is mine.
Prisoner's Defence. A young man gave it me, and told me to go to some name in Goswell-street, to meet him there.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Two Months.
Sixth Jury, before Edward Bullock, Esq.
THOMAS OXENHAM . I live in Hereford-street, Lisson-grove. On the evening of the 8th of March I was called down stairs, and found the prisoner in custody in my shop—I found my bowl there—it had been on the shelf—it had nineteen pence, thirty-three halfpence, and eighty farthings—these are them.
ELIZABETH BACK . I lodge in the prosecutor's house. I was sitting in the room, a little before nine o'clock, and saw some one inside the counter put their hand to the shelf where the money was—I was in the shop parlour—I saw some one run out, and I hallooed, "Stop thief"—he dropped a bowl in the middle of the road—I picked it up, with some of the money—a young man opposite caught him.
GEORGE HINKINS . I live in Hereford-street. I saw the prisoner come out of the prosecutor's shop with a bowl in his hand—Back stood at the door, with a child in her arms, calling, "Stop thief"—he dropped the bowl, and ran away—I ran, and did not lose sight of him till I stopped him.
GEORGE ANDERSON (policeman.) I saw Back picking up some money in the street—after that Hinkins brought the prisoner to me—I took him back, and received the bowl from Back—the prisoner said be had never been in the shop—I asked why he ran away—he said, "Why did the others run away?"—he said, "I picked up some of the money, I don't deny that."
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Four Months.
On the evening of the 12th of March I was in a back room behind the shop, and saw the prisoner go out of the shop, putting this quadrant under his apron—I went after him, and gave an alarm—I followed him to the street opposite, across the road—I saw him stopped—he threw the quadrant down—I picked up the case; some one else picked up the quadrant—it had been on a shelf in the shop—I am sure the prisoner is the person—this is the quadrant.
JAMES BYLES . I was in the Commercial-road, I saw Hobson run out, crying, "Stop thief"—the prisoner was running before her—he threw something down—when I came back I found it was a quadrant-case—I took him.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Four Months.
SARAH KILBY . of Exeter-street, Lisson-grove, I have a stable in Lyons-mews, Gower-place—I had a saddle there belonging to my father, John Bagnell Stockley—the prisoner worked for me sometimes, and could get to the stable—I missed the saddle—about three weeks afterwards I saw it for sale at Mr. Head's shop, in the Edgware-road.
(The prisoner received a good character.)
GUILTY . Aged 20.—Recommended to mercy.— confined One Month.
RICHARD ETHERIDGB (police-constable E 164). About eleven o'clock on Monday night, the 11th of March, I was in Museum-street, and saw the two prisoners together—Legg had something in a bag—I asked what he had got—he told me an anvil—I asked whose it was—he said his own, and he was going to take it to Charles-street, Drury-lane, and he had brought it from Mr. Legg's, in Hoxton Old-town—I said I would go and see where he was taking it to—he walked with me, and as he was going he gave it to Wigson—Legg then said he was going to No. 8, Smith-court, Charles-street, Drury-lane—I went there, but the highest number there is 6—I saw the landlady—she said Legg lodged there, that he was not a smith, but worked for the parish.
LEGG*— GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Six Months.
WIGSON— GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Two Months.
GUILTY . Aged 22.— Confined Fourteen Days.
GUILTY . Aged 16.— Confined Two Months.
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Transported for Seven Years.
EDWARD HARRIS (police-constable E 50.) The prisoner's mother was employed at the station in George-street, St. Giles, and the prisoner occasionally assisted her—these are my boots—I lost them from the room—I saw them safe on the morning of the 19th of March, about seven o'clock, and missed them about two.
Prisoner's Defence. The prosecutor has only done it out of spite, because I would not let him do what he wished to do; I know nothing about his boots.
saw the prisoner and another on the footway—the prisoner had this copper—he threw it over the fence into the field—I went after him and took him—the other went across the fields and got away—I delivered the prisoner to another officer, and then went after the copper—I took it and the prisoner to the station—next day I went to Gloucester-street, Kentish-town, and found a copper gone from a wash-house—it appeared to have been taken recently—I compared the copper with the place—it fitted—I concluded it had been taken from there.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not let me go after searching me? A. Yes, I wanted to take the other.
GRACE BUTCHER . I am single, and live in Gloucester-street—this copper was lost from the house of Mr. Alexander M'Masters—I have had the care of it twenty years—I was in the house on Monday evening, at six o'clock—I shut the wash-house door, and the house door—the copper was then fixed to its proper place—I know it is my master's—he was left sole executor of this property—here is the probate of the will.
Prisoner's Defence. I was walking up the road; there was two or three persons walking up abreast; I stopped, and the other three went on; the policeman stopped me, searched me, and let me go; when I got 100 yards he ran and stopped me, and said I had taken the copper; I could have got away if I thought proper.
GUILTY on the 1st Count.* Aged 18.— Confined Twelve Months.
1178. CHARLES GLAIR was indicted for stealing 3 boxes, value 5s.; 9 gowns, 2l.; 12 caps, 3s.; 5 shifts, 5s.; 9 aprons, 5s.; 1 bag, 6d.; 1 bonnet, 5s.; 1 basket, 1s.; 1 candlestick, 6d.; 5 shawls, 1l.; 4 pockets, 6d.; 4 chimney ornaments, 4s.; 8 petticoats, 6s.; 6 pairs of stockings, 3s.; 2 work-boxes 4s.; 36 printed books, 1l.; 3 scarfs, 1l.; and 5 handkerchiefs, 3s., the goods of Elizabeth Keeley.
ELIZABETH KEELEY . I am single, and was staying with my brother at Hammersmith—I have been in the service of Capt. Travers—I became acquainted with the prisoner in 1837, when he was in the 12th regiment of Lancers at Hounslow—I saw him again last Dec—I was then living at Brighton in service—he told me he had left his regiment, and promised to marry me—he staid at Brighton a little time—I left my place and came to London with him—I packed my own wearing apparel in three boxes, and went to the Roebuck in Tooley-street—I left my boxes there in charge of the prisoner to take care of for me while I went to visit my friends—I went on the 21st of Feb., and returned on the 27th—while I was away I received this letter from the prisoner—I know it is in his handwriting (read)—" London, Feb. 1844.—You will be surprised to hear what has happened; since you have left London I Was taken by one of our men, and only for treating him well for three days I should have lost my liberty; I was compelled to pledge all your things for the money, and in consequence will leave London, for fear of your trying to have me taken. I will stop only till you write, so that I may send you all the duplicates; but I will be very cautious about going where I have directed your letter to come, as I am in great fear. Direct to me at the Hare and Hounds, Islington, I dare not presume any more, but ask pardon, and will, as soon as I get work in some other town, send the money to roe-lease them. I remain still yours, &c. C. CLAIR."—I went to the Roe-buck—the prisoner was gone—I afterwards found him in custody, and charged him with having robbed me—he said he would redeem all my things for me again—I never authorised him to pledge or dispose of this property—they
took the prisoner to the station, and we found the duplicates in one of the boxes—he told us where the boxes were—these are all my things.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not give me permission to take these things to some other place where there would be less charge, and give me the keys of the box? A. Yes, because there were articles of yours in the box—I pledged the whole of your things, and you had the money—there were things of mine pledged with yours—when I left the Roebuck the bill was not paid, but you said you would pay it—there was only 1s. owing when I left for the night's lodging—what we got besides I paid for myself—I left you 3s. or 3s. 6d., and you had to pay 1s. 6d.—I promised to come when you sent for me—you did not tell me where my boxes were till you were in custody—you took me to the lodging and pointed out the boxes, but the clothes were not there—I value the whole of the boxes and contents at 5l. or 6l.
COURT. Q. When was it you left Brighton? A. On the 20th of Feb.—I left my situation on the 14th—I lost it because he visited me there—I was living with him at Brighton—we both proposed to come to town, one as much as the other—it was my proposal to leave the things in his charge, because I expected to return to him in a few days.
ELIZABETH WOODCOCK . I am single and live with my uncle, in Wellington-street. I knew the prisoner six months ago, at Birmingham—I was in service there—about a month before Christmas, I came to town with him—I saw him on Wednesday, the 21st of Feb.—Mrs. Payne was present—he told me he had been to Brighton and come back, and said he had some things for me—he did not tell me what they were—he said he would bring them next day—he then left Mrs. Payne's—he came the next day, and brought me two dresses, a petticoat or two, and some books—he asked me to pledge them, to get some boxes away from the Roebuck—he said he had a relation at Brighton that sent him a little money now and then, once a quarter, and the money was gone from the person that used to send it—I pawned the things he brought me, and gave him the money I got for them—he told me he had two boxes—he told me to come down to him next morning to the Roebuck, and meet him, because he could not bring the boxes—he had not the money—I went and asked him if he was going to bring them away—he said he could not, they were too heavy, but he was going to get a truck.
CAROLINE STILES . I am single. On the 20th of Feb. I went to Mrs. Payne's, in Golden-lane, and found Woodcock there—about one o'clock the next day the prisoner came there, and told Woodcock that he had come from Brighton, and brought some wearing apparel, and she could have them—he went out with Woodcock in the evening—he came back to Mrs. Payne's the next day—he said he was to get a room for Woodcock, who he said was his wife—I went with him to assist to find a lodging—he took me to a public-house—after sitting there some time, he said it was a secret, she was not his wife, that she was very ungrateful, and be would have no more to say to her—he asked me to go to the play with him—I was with him all that night—the next day, he said be must fetch the boxes away before twelve o'clock, but he had not got sufficient to fetch them away—in the evening we were together again—I afterwards saw him come out of the Roebuck with a bundle, and go to a pawnbroker's in Tooley-street—I was standing in the street outside—he had some wearing apparel when he went in, and when he came out he had nothing—he after that went to the Roebuck, and fetched out the boxes—I was with him two or three nights and days—he then left me, and said he would come back in half an hour, but he did not come—I pawned this work-box for him.
in Free School-street, Horsleydown. On the 21st of Feb., the prisoner came with Styles—she staid outside—the prisoner came and said he had three boxes at the Brighton station, and till he could procure a lodging, they must remain there—he said his wife was at the door—I said he could have a lodging—he then brought Stiles in, and he went out and came back with these three boxes—he remained at my place till the 27th of Feb., when he went out to take the air, and did not return till the officer brought him back at twelve o'clock that night.
RICHARD COLLINS (policeman.) On the 27th of Feb. the prisoner was given into my custody by the prosecutrix at the station—he said to her he was very sorry, but she knew that he had no money to pay the bill—he said, "Your boxes are safe at the Rising Sun, Horsleydown, I will give yon the duplicates, and when I get work I will pay you the money."
WALTER HENRT BROWN (policeman.) I assisted in taking the prisoner—I found a scarf and gown, and five books, in Wellington-street, at Woodcock's aunt's—they have all been identified by the prosecutrix.
JAMES HAYWARD (policeman.) I live at the police-station. On the 27th of Feb. I found the prisoner in custody—I asked him where the property was—he said, "I will show you, if you will go with me to Free School-street, Horsleydown," and he pointed it out.
JAMES SAXBY . shopman to Thomas Seely, of Tooley-street. I produce two gowns, three handkerchiefs, a petticoat, a scarf, two shifts, and some other things, pawned by the prisoner—I am sure he is the person.
Prisoner's Defence. Seven years ago I got acquainted with the prosecutrix; she sent me letters and money, and wanted me to leave my regiment, and when I did I came to Brighton; she desired me to come to her master's; the locked me in, and told me I must stop there all night; she made a bed in front of the, kitchen fire; we lived there as man and wife; we came to London, and there she lent me things, and left me a bill to pay, and no money; I was compelled to pawn her things to pay the bill; she was the first who persuaded me to desert, and gave me in custody for deserting.
NOT GUILTY .
DIGORY NORTHEY . linen-draper, Princes-street, Leicester-square, The prisoner was my shopman—I received information, and accused him of stealing a pair of stockings—he denied it—I searched him, and found one sock in his coat pocket—I directed one of my young men to look for the fellow—the prisoner said it was no use, and produced it from under the counter, just in front of where he was standing—he said he had taken it, and it was in consequence
of poverty—his wages were 40l. a year, and he lived in the house—I gave him into custody—I know the socks.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. How long has he been in your service? A. About a fortnight—his wages at that time amounted to about 14s. or 15s.—my young men have various departments in the shop—after the young men have dressed the window, it is usual for them to go and clean themselves—the prisoner had his boots on when he said he had no socks on, and when he pulled his trowsers up, I found he had none—I had paid him 3s. 6d. on the Saturday night before—I had a character with him from White and Green well's.
NOT GUILTY .
JOHN BROCKBANK . piano-forte-maker, St. Pancras. On the 19th of March, a little after twelve o'clock at night, I was in a public-house in Compton-street—I was the worse for liquor—I believe the prisoner was there—as I was going home, she came up to me, in Britannia-street, and pulled me, and wanted me to go with her—I persisted in going my own way—she walked the length of the street with me—I had a breastpin and chain in this handkerchief which I have on now—I noticed them when I was talking to her—she tried to pull me—I pulled away, and went on, and when I got a little way I missed my breastpin and chain—I went back, and accused her—I said, "If you will give it me, I will give you half-a-crown"—she pulled it out, and said, "Here it is"—I then gave her in charge—when the policeman came up, she tried to give it into my hand—she had not given it me before he came.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. Had you been with any female before? A. No—I cannot say whether the prisoner had any gin with me at the public-house in Compton-street—I had some gin, and there was a great many—we had some gin together, and came out together—this is my handwriting to this deposition, and it was read over to me—(deposition read—"Last night, a little after twelve, I was in a public-house in Compton-street; the prisoner had some gin with me, and we came out together")—said I was not sure that she was there—I told the same words that I have now—I laid hold of her shawl—she pulled herself to get away, and the shawl was in my hand—she charged me with stealing her shawl—I walked about 200 yards with her from Compton-street, nearly to the New-road—that was my way home—there was no dalliance going on between us—her arm was not round my neck, that I know of—I could walk very well, and knew what I was about—I am sure she pulled out the pin.
JAMES HERSEY (policeman.) About half-past one o'clock on that morning I heard the cry of "Police"—I found the prisoner and prosecutor there—the prosecutor said he should give her in charge—he seized her, and she put her hand down, and I put my hand down—he got one pin in his hand, and she had the other—I got them from her—she said, "If you give me into custody, I will give you into custody for stealing my shawl."
Cross-examined. Q. And he had her shawl? A. Yes.
NOT GUILTY .
WILLIAM EDWARD COOPER . of Park-street, Dorset-square. At one o'clock in the morning of the 17th of March I was in Georgiana-street—the prisoner came up and asked me to go home with her—I was going with her, and gave her 1s.—after that I missed a half-crown out of my waistcoat pocket—I was
sober—I accused her—she said she had no half-crown—a policeman came up and took her—as she was going she threw down a half-crown, and said that I threw it there—I did not.
Cross-examined by MR. PAYNE. Q. You did not go the next day before the Justice? A. No; and it was not till she was taken on the last charge that the officer fetched me—she was discharged—I was going home with her—the half-crown was safe about twenty minutes before.
WILLIAM PENNY (policeman.) The prisoner was given into custody—the prosecutor charged her with stealing a half-crown—she said she had not a half-crown on her—I went with her forty or fifty yards—I saw her throw the half-crown out of her hand—she said, "It did not come from me, it came from him."
Cross-examined. Q. How were you walking? arm-in-arm? A. No; I was close to her, and walking by her side—I had not got bold of her—both her hands were together—I saw the half-crown distinctly—it went on the pavement before her—she said, "I deny having the half-crown."
GUILTY . Aged 32.— Confined Twelve Months.
NEW COURT.—Thursday, April 11th, 1844.
Sixth Jury, before Mr. Common Sergeant.
1182. JOSEPH BROWN was indicted for stealing 2 baskets, value 1s.; 7 sheets, 14s.; 1 set of bed furniture, 5s.; 1 table-cloth, 2s.; 16 handkerchiefs, 5s.; 2 pillow-cases, 1s.; 1 table-cover, 2s.; 1 collar, 2d.; 1 cap, 2d.; 1 comforter, 2s.; the goods of Mary Scatchard Edwards: also 6 pairs of socks, 2s.; 2 petticoats, 2s.; 5 pinafores, 5s.; 2 pinafores of drawers, 2s.; 1 waistcoat, 6d.; and 1 coat, 1s. (W.; the goods of Henry Bartlett; to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined One Year.
FREDERICK JAMES BOWRING . I live in John-street. On the 11th of March I was at the Mechanic's Institute public-house, in Circus-street, Maryle-bone—I came to the front of the bar—the prisoner and another person came in—the prisoner said, "Halloo, old chap, how are you?"—he chucked me under the chin, and I felt a snatch from my scarf—I caught the prisoner's hand with my pin in it—I told him that would not do—I then cast my eye to ray friend Kettle's scarf, and saw his pin was gone—I told him so—the prisoner had been there about two minutes before my pin was gone—I took it from his hand—he said, "You do not think I meant to take it?"
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. Is your friend here? A. Yes—I went there about nine o'clock—it is Savage's house, at Marylebone—there was a piano, and plenty of women there, and some near me—they, did not pull me about—Kettle sat next me, and two more male friends sat on the other side—there was a woman on the opposite side—I talked to somewomen, and they drank with me—I was quite sober—the performances were singing, and dancing on the slack-rope—I did not drink with any of the women—I might have spoken to them and have forgot it—the prisoner did not tell me that a woman had got the pin—I have some slight recollection of his saying so—his hand was just up to my chin—I am a waiter, and live at the Gun Tavern, Brighton.
for stealing his pin—I took him—this is the pin—the prosecutor gave it to me at the station.
Cross-examined. Q. What are you? A. I am a traveller—I met two or three friends from Brighton, and we all went to this place—I was not drunk.
NOT GUILTY .
JAMES CHURCHYARD (police-constable G 174.) About half-past eight o'clock on Wednesday evening, the 6th of March I stopped the prisoner in Brook-street, Holborn, with this copper—I asked where he was going to take it—he said to his master, No. 71, Upper Whitecross-street to be repaired—I knew that was a shoemaker's shop—I went there, and could not find his master.
Prisoner's Defence. A man asked me if I would earn 1s.; he give me the copper to carry; he was my master while I was employed by him.
GUILTY . Aged 20.— Confined Three Months.
JOHN HOUOHTON . I am in partnership with Mr. Taylor, a draper, in the Edgware-road. About half-past three o'clock in the afternoon of the 26th of March, I saw the prisoner and some other women sound some goods we had on the pavement—there was a hole in one of the trusses—the prisoner took two pieces of diaper from the rest of the things—I went out, seized her, and one piece fell from her—the other I took from her.
Prisoner. I took them up to take them in the shop. Witness. She had not removed from the package—she put them under her shawl—there was nothing to be seen till I got her inside, and then I took it from her.
GUILTY .* Aged 19.— Confined One Year.
ANNA MARIA HARE . I am the wife of Henry Charles Hare. On the 7th of March, at half-past seven in the evening I was in my parlour and saw a man at the door with a white apron on—I then went to the door and missed my stockings, which I had hung inside the rail—I ran after the man down one or two streets—some one caught him, and he threw his bat away—he ran further, and was caught again—I took him back to the shop—these stockings were found in the way—they are mine.
Prisoner. Q. Did I run across the road? A. Yes—you did not walk—I did not lose sight of you all the way.
Prisoner's Defence. I was coming down by Shoreditch church; I met a man I had seen before; he asked me to accompany him down Hackney-road; he went into a shoe-shop; he came out, and we were returning; we got as far as the prosecutor's; the man made a halt, and asked me to wait for him; he came out a little while after, and gave me these stockings to hold for him, wrapped up in a bag; I saw him run across the road; I walked across towards him, and the prosecutor came up and taxed me with having something; not knowing what it was, I ran off, and threw them away.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined One Year.
1187. WILLIAM BETKINS and HENRY TILSLEY were indicted for stealing one handkerchief, value 2s. 6d., the goods of a man whose name is unknown, from his person; and that Betkins had been before convicted of felony.
CHARLES CHAPEL , I live in Kensall-cottage, Brixton. At four o'clock, on the 9th of March, I was in cheapside, near Bow church—I saw Tilsley take a red pocket handkerchief from a gentleman's pocket—Betkins took it of him, and put it into his own pocket—I walked to St. Paul's-churchyard, and met two officers—I told them—I was sent for afterwards, and saw the prisoners—I am certain they are the men—I do not know who the gentleman was.
Betkins's Defence. I bought the handkerchief a week before I was taken I took it off my neck.
(Tilsley received a good character.)
BETKINS— GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined One Year.
TILSLEY— GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Three Months.
THOMAS CARTER . I am shopman to Edward and Charles Alexander, pawnbrokers, New Church-street, St. Marylebone. About nine o'clock in the morning of the 9th of March, the prisoner came and asked if some silver lace she had Was good—I said it was not—I turned round, and she went out—in ten minutes I missed two shawls—I gave information, and they were found—these are like my master's—I should not like to swear they are them.
JOHN HALL (Police-constable D 64.)I went down the Edgware-road, about twenty minutes past nine o'clock in the morning, to Mr. Mill's—I then went to Mr. Smith's, another pawnbroker's, and saw the prisoner putting this
other shawl on the counter—I took her—she said a young woman who I saw her with gave them to her.
NOT GUILTY .
JOHN WILLIAM JONES , pawnbroker, Brentford, About nine o'clock in the evening of the 3rd of April I was near my shop, and missed a pair of trowsers from the show-rail, within the shop—these are them—I had seen them safe between four and five in the evening.
WALTER PRENDERGAST (police-constable T 79.) I apprehended the prisoner on the 3rd of April, at a quarter past nine o'clock at night, in a public-house—he had a bundle, and this pair of trowsers were on him.
Prisoner's Defence, I went to London, and bought in Rag-fair, some trowsers and shoes; as I was going home I met a man with these trowsers; he asked me to buy them for 10s.; I said I would not give him more that 4s. for them; I bought them, and put them on.
GUILTY .** Aged 29.— Transported for Seven Years.
JAMES PERRY , baker, Back-road, St. George-in-the-East. On the 1st of March I came home about three o'clock in the afternoon—I got a little the worse for liquor—my wife gave me 4l. of silver in a bag—I went out—there were half-crowns, shillings, and sixpences in it—I am sure I had it when I left home—I went into a public-house—I had spent what little money I had besides, and took the bag out to pay for some drink that I and my friends had—while doing so, one man pushed my arm, the other laid hold of the bag and started off with it—I was so drunk, 1 could not tell who it was.
HENRY MAY . I keep the public-house. The prosecutor was there, drunk—when he pulled out the bag, I wished him to give it me, and said I would give him gold for it next morning—he would not do it—the bell rang—I went out, and my boy told me something.
JOHN HARVEY . I am the pot-boy. I saw the prosecutor pull out his bag, and he had it in his band on the table—he was paying for something—the prisoner snatched it out of his hand, and ran away with it—I am sure he is the man.
Prisoner. The prosecutor pulled out the bag, and told the company to put their hands in, and help themselves. Witness. Yes, he did, and then the prisoner seized it all.
Prisoner's Defence. He pulled it out several times, and paid money to persons to fetch gin and water; the change was not given him; I went out, and did not return.
GUILTY .* Aged 23.— Confined Six Months.
MARY PYNE . I am the wife of Henry Pyne, haberdasher, Bethnal-green-road. On the evening of the 8th of March I had some printed cotton safe, about a yard inside the door—about a quarter past eight o'clock 1 heard a snatch from the door—I looked, and it was gone—it was brought back next day—this is it.
Bethnal-green-road at half-past eight o'clock at night, on the 8th of March, with this print under her apron.
Prisoner's Defence, I bought it of a man whom I knew very well; I was taken, and was discharged, because the prosecutor was not found; I went again; they said it was stolen.
GUILTY . Aged 23.—Recommended to mercy— Confined Two Months.
WILLIAM WILTSHIRE . I went to sweep the prosecutor's chimney on the 15th of March—the prisoner said, "Take out the copper, the bricklayers are coming to repair the brick-work"—I did so—they sent for me again, saying the servant wanted to see me—I went back, and saw the prisoner—she said, "Can I trust you?"—I said, "Yes"—she said, "In your soot you will find a silver spoon and a gold ring, I placed them in the copper "—she said they were her own—I went and found them—I gave them up at the station as I thought they were not hers. Prisoner. He kept them in his possession a week before he told of it. Witness. No; not an hour before I told my mistress of it—I went once or twice to see Mr. Hagan, and could not, and then I took them to the station.
Prisoner's Defence. I found them in the ashes, and placed them on the copper, intending to give them up; I sent for Wiltshire, and he kept them from Tuesday till Thursday evening.
GUILTY . Aged 27.— Confined Four Months.
MR. WILDE conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES EDWARD SEYMOUR . I am in partnership with William Seymour. About the 25th of March the prisoner was in our employ—from information, I had reason to believe I had been robbed of some gold—a person applied to him, and got from him twenty-seven grains of gold—I have every reason to believe it was the same that was lost from our premises, and it is exactly the same quantity that Lane had missed.
Prisoner. Q. What was the weight he complained he had lost? A. About 1 dwt. or 1 dwt. and a half—your work always came in correctly—about two months ago there was a great panic in the shop about a man purchasing gold of three of the apprentices—at that time 1 had no suspicion of you—a boy worked on one side of you, and a man on the other.
HENRY LANE . I was in the prosecutor's employ. At four o'clock in the afternoon, on the 25th of March, I left the cuttings of twelve books—when I went next morning I saw they were diminished, and there was from about 1 dwt. to 1 dwt. and a half missing—I informed my master—he told me to go to Mr. Scardefield, who produced the gold before me—I took it to my master—I went back, and brought Mr. Scardefield, who identified the prisoner.
Prisoner. Q. How many men work at the shop in which you do? A.
Three, and three apprentices—no one has any right to go to any place but his own—you have repeatedly asked me how my work stood—I worked for Mr. Clutts, in Drury-lane—I was not discharged for robbery—my indentures were not cancelled—I did not offer Mr. Seymour 5l. to come into his employ.
WILLIAM SCARDEFIELD , carver and gilder, Monmouth-street, Seven-dials, At half-past nine o'clock, on the 26th of March, the prisoner came to me, and offered twenty-seven grains of what be called skewins, that is gold dust—I weighed it, and told him it came to 3s. 4 1/2 d.—I bought it.
Prisoner. Q. Was it one piece or two? A. You had one piece that weighed seventeen grains—you put that in—I weighed it—then you said, "You may as well have the whole," and put the rest into the scale—I weighed it—I have frequently bought it before.
THOMAS WILLIAM CARTER (police-constable T 5.) I took the prisoner, and asked if he knew what I took him for—he said, "No"—I said, "For stealing some gold "—he said he knew nothing about it—I searched him, and found 3s. on him.
Prisoner's Defence. I was in business for myself, but failed; my wife died, and left me with eight children; all my workshop and its contents were thrown into confusion. This paper, with these few grains of gold, got thrown into a drawer, and had been overlooked several times. My daughter put in my possession the twenty-seven grains of gold which she found in the drawer, and I had two witnesses who saw it in my possession on the Sunday before.
GUILTY . Aged 44.— Confined Nine Months.
1194. WILLIAM BURTON was indicted for stealing one breast-pin; value 4s. 6d.; the goods of John Kettle, from his person.—2nd COUNT, stating it to be the goods of Frederick James Brown, from his person; and that he had been before convicted of felony.
JOHN KETTLE . I was at Mr. Savage's on the 11th of March, standing in front of the bar—I lost my pin—I cannot say who took it—this is it—it is mine—I saw it next in Browning's hand.—(See the case of John Crawley, page 899.)
Cross-examined by MR. WILDE. Q. Were there some ladies there? A. Yes—there was a girl took out a knife to stab me—that was after I had lost my pin—I never heard that one of the girls picked up the pin—Crawley said a girl gave him the pin that was taken from Browning—I did not give a few pence, and Browning a few pence—I was drinking at the bar—the prisoner did not drink with me—we never had anything to drink with him—the prisoner did not interfere when the woman was talking to me—I believe he called her his wife—I was there altogether from nine till eleven o'clock—there was a concert—I cannot say how many glasses of liquor I had—there might have been two or three among three or four of us—I should say we had not six glasses.
JAMES BROWNING . After I caught the person taking my pin, I saw Kettle's pin was gone—I said, "You have lost your pin"—he said, "I have"—" I said, "I suspect the person, who was with the person who took mine"—I said, "He is gone out"—I went out, and taxed the prisoner—he said he had not got it—I said I should give him in charge—he put his hand into his pocket, and gave it to me—I took it back to Kettle.
Cross-examined. Q. You are in the service of Mr. Harrison, at the Guntavern, Brighton? A. Yes, I have been, here three weeks—I had between 2l. and 3l. when I came up.
CHARLES SOAMES (police-constable D 34.) When I went in, the prosecutor had got hold of the prisoner—the prisoner struck him violently, and cut his eye and his face—a knife was drawn by a woman, but I could not get her.
Witness for the Defence,
CHARLOTTE TURNER . I was at this place of Savage's, on Monday evening, the 11th of March, I saw the prisoner and Kettle there—I went there about half-past eight o'clock, and continued in the singing-room—I came out at eleven, and Kettle was standing at the bar—the prisoner and another young man were drinking a quartern of gin together—I was standing close by them—I heard the prisoner say he bad lost his pin—they then drank the remainder of the gin, and went outside the door—they had not been gone a minute before I saw a pin lying on the boards, in front of the bar—a young man saw me, and I asked him if it was his—he said, "No"—I went oat, aid said to the prisoner, "Are you the young man who lost your pin?"—he said "Yes," it was a pin with a blue stone—I said 1 bad found a pin, which I would give him—he looked at it, and said it was not his—I said. I would give it him—he stuck it in his scarf—he took it out, and put it into his pocket, and said be should lose it, if it was sticking there, as he had done before—he asked if I would have anything to drink—I said, "No" and went home.
COURT. Q. Where do you live? A. In Hare-street—I am an unfortunate girl—I have not known the prisoner except from seeing him several tines at Mr. Savage's rooms—I never saw Crawley before that night—Watkins is the next witness—I never saw him before that night—I do not know what he is—I believe he lives in Crown-street, keeping business on for his mother—I did not see a fight that night—I did not see any one strike Kettle—there were several women that I had seen before, but none that I was speaking to—I went alone, and went home alone—I have never been at the prisoner's house, nor associated with him—I did not know he was taken till the Wednesday following—I heard several persons talking of it when I went to Savage's rooms again—I go frequently there to see the dancing—I never dance there—do not know whether the prisoner is always there—I have seen him there two or three times—this is the pin (looking at one shown to her by Soames) I picked up—I am sure of that.
COURT. Q. What are you? A. A spring maker—I work for myself, and keep a shop in Crown-street—I keep my mother—I had been at Savages once before, three months ago, never but once before in my life—I did not know Turner—I came with her to-day—I found her in the court outside the door—last Wednesday evening I was coming down Holborn, I saw her looking at the wax-work—I touched her on the shoulder for a lark, as I wished to speak to her—she said I Was the young man she wished to see, that the young man she gave the pin to that evening had got into trouble, and would I have the goodness to speak—I had never seen her, or the prisoner, or Crawley before the evening I was at Savage's—I said I would come down—I did not know he was taken before then—Turner spoke to me that night at Savage's—she said, "Have you lost a pin?—I said "No"—I know where Turner lives, but never was with her—I might have been at Savage's six or nine months previous, but I do not remember.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Ten Years.
Cross-examined by MR. CLARKSON. Q. Have you lost the servant that belonged to Mr. Bell? A. Yes, he ran away the morning the prisoner was taken.
CHARLES CHEVERTON (police-constable T 62.) I took the prisoner with a basket containing this book and papers about six or eight houses from the prosecutors—I asked what he had—he said some waste paper—I asked where he brought it from—he said Mr. Bell's—I asked him who gave it him—he said the servant—it was what Mr. Bell allowed the servants to light the fire with—I took him back to Mr. Bell and asked the servant—he said it was all right.
NOT GUILTY .
NOT GUILTY .
JAMES RIDDLE . I am foreman to Richard Henry Weston. The prisoner was his labourer—I cannot say exactly whether I have missed nails—these correspond with my master's in every respect—we have plenty of these.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. Plenty of other persons have them? A. Yes—I swear to these—it is not possible for me to miss any—we have 200 bags in at a time.
WILLIAM JUDGE . I am a Thames-police inspector. About six o'clock on the 22nd of March, I saw the prisoner come out of the prosecutor's warehouse at Wapping with something bulky in his pocket—I stopped him, and found two parcels of nails in his pockets, and 5lbs. in his hat.
GUILTY . Aged 49— Confined Three Months
1198. MICHAEL BURKE was indicted for stealing 1 trowel, value 1s.6l., the goods of Charles Cummings: 1 other trowel, value 1s. 6d., the goods of Richard Patterson; and that he had been before convicted of felony.
EDWARD HICKSTON (police-constable B 192.) At five o'clock in the morning of the 8th of March, I saw the prisoner come from an unfinished building, and put down these two trowels on the pavement—I took him.
Prisoner. I had not taken them out. Witness. I took him just outside the same premises.
GUILTY . Aged 32.— Transported for Seven Years.
GUILTY . Aged 15.— Confined One Month.
GUILTY . Aged 18.— Confined Three Months.
1201. WILLIAM STRIPLING was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling-house of John Finlayson, at St. Matthew, Bethnalgreen, with intent to steal, and stealing therein, 1 coat, value 1l.; 14 spoons, 4l. 7s. 6d.; 1 pair of sugar-tongs, 7s. 6d.; 1 tooth-pick, 6d.; 1 pen-knife, 2s. 6d.; and 1 card-case, 2s.; his goods.
JOHN FINLAYSON . I live in Palestine-place, in the parish of St. Matthew, Bethnal-green Between nine and ten o'clock at night, on the 15th of March, I saw my house properly locked up—the doors were locked, and the windows fastened—I have a parlour-window looking into the garden—I went to bed about eleven, and about a quarter after twelve I heard a noise—I thought the next door neighbour had fallen down, or fallen out of bed—I laid a few minutes, then heard some one moving or speaking—soon after I heard a noise—I said, "That is the celleret-hid shut down, there is some one in the house"—I got up, and got a light, and went below, and found nothing moved—I called the police, went into the back parlour, and found my desk open, and a. coat, some spoons, and a tooth-pick gone—the window had been broken, which would enable a person to undo the sash, and get in—these are my things.
GEORGE GREEK (police-constable K 330.) At half-past twelve o'clock on Friday night, the 15th of March, I saw the prisoner in the Cambridge-road, near the prosecutor's house—he had a coat on similar to the one produced.
Prisoner. Q. Did you not come to Worship-street to look at me? A. Yes, you had no coat on then—I knew you.
SAMSON DRAVE FROST (police-constable.) I was on duty that night, and saw the prisoner coming from Cambridge-circus, near the Hackney-road, and cross to (he dark side—I watched him to the end of my beat, and saw no more of him till he was locked up.
JOHN HENRY SILVEY . I am shopman to Mr. Sowerby, of Chiswell-street. I heard of the robbery, and had a description of the property—on Saturday, the 16th of March, about the middle of the day, the prisoner came with two broken spoons—he asked if I purchased them—I talked to him, and de-tained him till an officer was sent for, and he was taken.
THOMAS TAYLOR (police-constable G 111.) I was sent for by Mr. Silvey—I asked the prisoner if the spoons were his own—he said yes, he had had them a considerable time—I asked what he called a considerable time, a year or two,—he said Yes.
REBECCA GILLMAN . I am the wife of Joseph Gillman. The prisoner lodged with me—I was present when Taylor searched his lodgings, and this knife was found there—the prisoner came home between two and three that morning.
Prisoner. Q. Can you swear it was me came home at that time A. I did not see you, but I suppose it was you.
ANTHONY RUTT . I went into the prosecutor's garden, and saw footmarks—I have the shoes which I took from the prisoner's feet at Worship-street—I made an impression with them by the side of the other marks in the garden, and they exactly corresponded with the marks there.
Prisoner's Defence. On the 16th of March I had no work; I went into a coffee-shop; a man was sitting there, who appeared a respectable tradesman; he said he had not any regular employ for five months; that he was married, and had five children; he wished to part with these two old spoons; I took them to sell for old silver.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Transported for Ten Years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
CHARLES BROWN . I am in partnership with John Walker, a silversmith, in Whitechapel-road, in the parish of St. Mary, Whitechapel, it is our dwelling-house. At half-past eight o'clock, on the 8th of March, the prisoner came to our shop—he asked to see a watch that was in the window, marked 7l. 10s.—I showed it to him—he examined it, and said it was too thick for the waistcoat pocket, and asked for one thinner—I showed him one partly silver, and partly gold—he objected to it, and as I was turning to get a gold one, he left the shop, and I missed the watch I had first shown him—I am certain he is the man—there is something peculiar about his eyes and mouth, which enables me to swear to him—he is dressed differently now.
Cross-examined by Mr. DOANE. Q. How soon after did you see him? A. The next day—I have not seen any one else who is confined in this gaol—I swear positively that the prisoner is the man—I had never seen him before.
Cross-examined. Q. You offered him money while you tent out? A. Yes—I sent a person for an officer—I offered 3l. 10s.—he refused to take it.
(property produced and sworn to.)
Cross-examined. Q. Had you any conversation with him? A. No—I see a great many persons.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Transported for Ten Years.
(There was another indictment against the prisoner.)
1203. WILLIAM SANDERWICK was indicted for feloniously assault-ing Edith Wright, putting her in fear and danger of her life, and taking from her person 1 reticule, value 1s.; 1 knife, 1s.; 1 pair of gloves, 6d.; 1 shilling, 4 pence, and 7 halfpence, her property; and that he had been before convicted of felony.
Charles-street—the prisoner met me, and took my bag from my arm—it was twice twisted round my arm—he snatched once, and could not get it—he snatched a second time, and got it and broke the string—there was 1s. 7 1/2 d. and a pair of gloves in it—I am sure he is the person.
GUILTY . Aged 14.— Transported for Ten Years
Fifth Jury, before Edward Bullock, Esq.
1204. JAMES PEARCE was indicted for stealing 3 pecks of oats and chaff, value 1s.; 1 quart of ginger beer, 1s.; and 6 bottles, 6d.; the goods of John Williams and another, his masters; to which he pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 31.— Confined One Month.
1205. SARAH RICHARDSON was indicted for stealing 1 tea cup, value 3d.; 1 saucer, 3d.; 1 basin, 3d.; 1 plate, 6d.; 1 spoon, 3d.; 1 knife, 1s.; 1 cloak, 10s.; 1 gown, 2s.; 2 handkerchiefs, 1s.; and 1/4 yard of satin, 6d.; the goods of George Welch, her master; to which she pleaded
GUILTY . Aged 17.— Confined Four Months.
MR. WILDE conducted the Prosecution.
JAMES EDWARD SKYMOUR , gold-beater, Long-acre. The prisoner was in my employ—on the 15th of March I received information, and missed some refuse called shruff—on the 16th the prisoner came to my counting-house—he said he was very sorry, he came to beg my pardon, and asked if I would for-give him—I told him to go into the shop—I then asked where he had sold the gold—he replied he had not sold it—I asked what he had done with it—he said he had put it into his waistcoat pocket, and lost it from a hole—he showed me a hole in the pocket—I afterwards, by the request of the Magistrate, melted the whole of the prisoner's work, and found 1 dwt. deficient.
Cross-examined by MR. DOANE. Q. Are you in partnership? A. Yes—I have one partner—the prisoner bad been in my service about two months—he did piece-work—nothing was due to him—he was paid by the job as the work is done—I had weighed out the gold, and given it to the prisoner, and he was to beat it out—each man is responsible for the quantity given out—he does the entire work—I look to him to produce the gold to me in its manufactured state—I gave him 2ozs. 7dwts.—that is the average quantity I gave—the gold by the process of manufacture increases in weight, not the gold itself, but the dust in the atmosphere accumulates upon it, and the white powder they use—the weight is not always alike—it will increase about 1 dwt.—2ozs. 7dwts. would not produce 2ozs. 10 dwts.—it has happened, but I never knew it to happen in my shop—they receive 2s. a pennyweight for all above a certain weight, and if there is a deficiency they pay 2s. a pennyweight—his work was not complete, but supposing it had been he would have had 2s. less—the work varies—it sometimes increases, and sometimes diminishes—it
has happened that if one workman has an increase, he helps another who has less, but it is quite contrary to the rules.
NOT GUILTY .
1207. JEREMIAH HEWITT was indicted for stealing 1 sack, value 3s.; and 3 1/4 pecks of oats and lentils, 2s. 6d.; the goods of Richard Wilson Pelly, his master; and JOHN PYE for feloniously receiving the same, well knowing them to have been stolen.
MR. PRENDERGAST conducted the Prosecution,
RICHARD WILLIAM PELLY . I am a commander in the Navy, and rent a farm at Upton. Hewitt was my wagoner—I received information, and about six in the morning of the 18th of March my wagon left the farm—I went to the Three Tuns at Bow—I got there about a quarter past seven o'clock—Hewitt was aware that it was contrary to my rule to stop at a public-house—he had been in my employ nearly a year—the wagon stopped at the Three Tuns—I saw Hewitt get on the shaft—his coat was placed on the front of the wagon which comes partly over the shafts—he took a sack from under his coat and handed it down to the ostler Pye, who went up the yard with it—I ran across the road and made him bring it back—I had been on the other side—Pye had got about half way up the yard by the side of the house—I said, "Well, Hewitt, this is your gratitude"—he said, "I hope you will let me off this time"—I sent for a policeman—Hewitt had no authority to take corn out of my stable—he was not allowed to take any thing but mixed food in the nosebags, and the horses had the proper supply of mixed food in the nose-bags—I afterwards saw this sack—it is mine—it is food of this description that I have for my horses—the Three Tuns is not above two miles and a half from my farm—the cart was loaded with potatoes, and was going to Whiting's wharf—they were to bring dung down, and while they were loading and unloading, the horses should have their food.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. HOW far is your place from London? A. About four miles and a half—I gave no particular directions as to this particular journey—Hewitt had a right with the corn for his horses, but no right to part with it to Pye—he was not authorised to take more than was. in their nose-bags.
WILLIAM CAPENDAL . I was present when the wagon left the farm that morning—Hewitt's orders were not to stop at any place on the road—it was Captain Pelly's custom to give out a certain portion of corn every day—I have seen the corn which my master brought back in the sack—it was his corn—there was about three pecks—the usual supply for these horses was about one bushel and a peck—I saw the nose-bags on the wagon—they were full.
Cross-examined. Q. Who hands out the corn? A. I did—it is kept in the granaries locked up by me—Hewitt has the quantity of corn given out to him, and uses it as he likes, but it was to be used in the stable, burring the quantity he takes out in his nose-bags.
MR. PRENDERGAST. Q. It is mixed when it is put in the nose-bags? A. Yes, Hewitt mixed it himself—he has the corn in one end of the bin, and the chaff in the other—the corn is given out every day, and he uses any quantity he thinks proper—I gave him out the corn on Sunday morning, and on Monday morning he started—I did not give him any corn that morning—this is my master's sack—it is oats and lentils mixed—it is a rather particular mixture—I should not think that any one on the road feeds with it—I gave it out about eight on Sunday morning,. and there would be another supply on
Monday night, and that would be deposited in his bin, which was under his care.
(The prisoners received good characters.)
HEWITT— GUILTY . Aged 40.—Recommended to mercy.— Confined Two Months.
PYE— NOT GUILTY .
GUILTY . Recommended to mercy.— Confined Three Months.
MARY CARSWELL . I am a baker, living in Halfmoon-street, Piecadilly. The prisoner was my servant for eight months, up to the 24th of March—in consequence of suspicions I went to her box in the kitchen—it was unlocked—she was not present—I found a large bag of flour in it, weighing ten pounds and a half—I let it remain—I had not missed any flour—the foreman and my two sons compared it with what was in the sack which we were using—I found the quality was equal.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. Was any one with you at the time you found this flour? A. Not any one—I have five lodgers when my house is full, and had one servant, and my two sons—she had to cook for them and for my family, and to wait on the rest of the house—I gave her 9l. a year wages—I paid her weekly, 1s. a week—I mean to swear that I paid her that—the place was as good as 16l. a year—the had clothes—if I chose to give them her she would be very thankful—I cannot recall to mind when I have given her anything—I have paid her 1s. a week—I have my book to prove it, and she has receipted the book—I will swear I have paid her 5s. and 10s.—I have not got the dates just at my recollection—she made no demand for wages—I owe her 2s. or 3s.—I did not refuse to pay her wages—she gave me a week's notice to quit—I found the flour on Saturday night, and she was to go away on the Monday—I only wished her to stay a few days till I could get a servant—she did not refuse—I do not know whether Mrs. Ponsonby was to have got her a better place—she has not said so.
ROBERT OXER (policeman.) I was sent for to the prosecutrix's, and took the prisoner—I saw these two bags of flour in the box—the prosecutrix said she would give her into custody—the prisoner then said it was her own property, that she bought it of a man in Oxford-street—she did not know his name, or where he lived.
Cross-examined. Q. Who gave the information to you? A. I was sent for by a young man—I went to the prosecutrix's, and found her, and her two sons, and the prisoner—I believe the prisoner is an Irish girl—the prosecutrix spoke first—she said, "This servant of mine ha been robbing me, I have constantly lost my things"—I said, "What have you lost now?"—she said, "Here are two bags of flour; I shall give her into custody"—I said, "If you do, I shall take her; do as you please"—the prisoner said the pro-perty in her box was her own—that was the exact expression that she used—there was an old dress in some dirty linen in her box.
MARY CARSWELL re-examined. I did not speak about the one bag till I saw this other one—I went again to her box, and then I saw two bags there—I spoke to her, and she said it was her own, and I had no business to touch her.
box—it was still open in the kitchen—my flour was kept in the trough in the bakehouse for use—there was no key to the trough—the bakehouse was not locked.
NOT GUILTY .
(No evidence was offered.)
NOT GUILTY .
NEW COURT.—Friday, April 12th, 1844.
Fifth Jury, before Mr. Common Sergeant.
GUILTY . Aged 19.— Confined Two Months ,
GUILTY . Aged 34.— Confined Six Months.
MESSRS. ELLIS and DOANE conducted the Prosecution,
JOHN MORGAN , baker, Great Peter-street, Westminster. On the 4th of April the prisoner came for half a quartern loaf—he gave me a shilling—I saw it was counterfeit, and bent it—I called a constable—while he was searching him, I heard something drop close by the prisoner—the constable picked it up—it was a counterfeit half-crown—I gave the shilling to the constable, and marked it.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Six Month.
GUILTY . Aged 45.— Confined One Year ,
MESSRS. ELLIS and DOANE conducted the Prosecution.
FRANCIS WEST . I am shopman to Mr. Craft, fishmonger, Store-street, St. Giles. On the 8th of March the prisoner came and bought a mackerel, for 6d.—he gave me half-a-crown—I laid it on the counter, and my master gave him 2s.—after he was gone my master looked at it—he went after the prisoner—I am sure he is the man.
WILLIAM CRAFT . At half-past ten, or eleven o'clock, on the 8th of March, the prisoner came and asked the price of a mackerel—he agreed to give 6d. for it—I saw the prisoner give Turner half-a-crown—he placed it by the side of my desk—as soon as the lady I was serving left, I took the half-crown, and found it was bad—I pursued the prisoner, and found him in Great
Russell-street, about 400 or 500 yards off—I told him it was a bad half-crown—he said he knew nothing about it—the policeman came up—I took one of the prisoner's hands—he put his other hand up to his mouth—the policeman struck his hand, and another half-crown fell on the pavement—I marked the half-crown I took of the prisoner, and gave it to the policeman.
Prisoner. He put it into his pocket. Witness, Yes—there was other silver there, but I had bitten it before I put it in—this is the one—I am quite sure of it.
WILLIAM WILLIS (police-constable E 64.) I took the prisoner—I laid hold of one of his hands—he put his other hand up to his mouth—I struck his hand—this other bad half-crown fell on the pavement—I took it up—the prisoner said, "Don't hold me too tight, I have not any more"—I searched him at the station, and found 3s. 4d. in good money on him, and a tobacco-box and a mackerel concealed under his jacket.
GUILTY . Aged 23.— Confined Six Months.
MART ADKINS . I am the wife of Thomas Fletcher Adkins, and keep the Royal Oak, in Margaret-street, Hackney-road. On Friday, the 29th of March, a little after ten o'clock, Robert Hastwayte and Reeves came to our house—they had half a quartern of gin—Reeves gave me a new sixpence—it was bad—I refused it, and said it was bad—Reeves said he was not aware of it, but he knew where he took it—he put it into his pocket, on which Robert Hastwayte said, "You are a nice fellow, to come here to treat me, and offer a bad sixpence"—Robert Hastwayte paid me for the gin with 2d., and then they left the house.
MARY KERSCHNER . I am the wife of George Frederick Kerschner, of the Carpenters' Arms, Ann's-place, Hackney-road. At half-past nine o'clock, on the 29th of March, Reeves and Robert Hastwayte came to our house to-gether—Robert Hastwayte asked for half a quartern of gin—I served him—he gave me a new sixpence—I gave him 4d. change—both of them drank part of the gin—I put the sixpence into the till—there was another sixpence in the till with a hole pierced in it—I had noticed it a few minutes before—I gave the sixpence I received from Robert Hastwayte to Mr. Grafton.
MART ANN AMBROSE . I am the wife of David Ambrose, of the King's Arms, Ann's-place, Hackney-road, near the Carpenters' Arms. On the 29th of March, about a quarter to ten o'clock at night, Robert Hastwayte and Reeves came, in—Robert Hastwayte asked for half a quartern of gin, he gave me a shilling, I gave him 10d.—they drank the greater part of the gin, and left the rest—I did not much like the look of the shilling—I put it into the till—there were four sixpences, and a very old shilling of George the Fourth, and a lion on the reverse side—soon after I took the shilling which the prisoner gave me out of the till—I am sure it was the same—I bit it, and found it was bad—I put it into the till again by itself—I gave it to Boyd about a quarter of an hour afterwards.
Cross-examined by MR. BALLANTINE. Q. From whom did you receive the George the Fourth shilling? A. I do not know—I had cleared the till about five minutes before—I noticed the one very particularly, because it was the only one with a lion on it—there were five or six shillings, but I had noticed that one when I first took it—I took up the other money, and put it into the bar parlour—I saw two gentlemen at Worship-street—I did not see any one from the Mint before I gave evidence.
JAMES ROBERT GRAFTON , appraiser. I was in the Carpenters' Arms—I saw Robert Hastwayte and Reeves there drinking gin—they left the house, I followed them—I saw them join William Hastwayte, about twenty yards off—Robert Hastwayte and Reeves crossed, and went into the King's Arms, and William went on and stood at the corner of a turning—I went into a garden—I walked down, and William left the corner where he was—I thought he was going to run away—I went and secured him—I saw him raise his arm, and in chucking his arm out, he passed a paper over the wall—immediately the policeman received him, I went over the wall and picked up the paper, which contained eight shillings and six sixpences—I also got one sixpence from Kerschner—I gave them all to Dubois.
MR. FIELD. I have examined the whole of the money, it is all counterfeit—the shillings are all cast in one mould, and the sixpences are also cast in one mould.
CHARLES EAST . I saw Robert Hastwayte and Reeves at the Royal Oak—about three minutes after they left, I followed them from the Royal Oak, and saw William meet them before they went to the Carpenter's Arms.
Cross-examined. Q. Where did you see them? A. After they came out of the Oak—I followed them down Margaret-street to Ann's-place—I afterwards saw them turn back, and go in a different direction to me—I did not see them go into the Carpenter's Arms, but I peeped through the door, and saw Robert Hastwayte and Reeves in there—I did not see William till I came back—I then went home, and disguised myself, and went through the garden of the Carpenter's Arms.
ROBERT HASTWAYTE— GUILTY . Aged 20.
REEVES— GUILTY . Aged 32
WM. HASTWAYTE— GUILTY . Aged 22.
Confined nine months
HENRY CHARLES PARKER . I am servant to William Williams, of the Rose and Crown, in Oxford-street. On the 16th of March, at ten minutes past eight o'clock in the evening, the prisoner came for a pint of porter—it came to 1 1/2 d.—he gave me 1s.—I put it into the till where there was only a sixpence and a fourpenny-piece—I am sure of that—in about three minutes I looked at the shilling, and observed it was bad—I put it on the stove in the bar—about a quarter before ten the prisoner came again for a pint of beer, and gave me a shilling—I knew him again—I went into the counting-house and gave it to John Goodwin, who came out, and the prisoner ran away—I had not said anything to him, but Williams had told Goodwin to give him in charge.
JOHN GOODWIN . I received a shilling from. Parker. I went into the bar—the prisoner was standing there drinking porter—he ran away—I put the «hilling on the stove—I went after the prisoner, and saw him taken, I then took the two shillings off the stove, and put them into my pocket—I gave the same two shillings to the inspector.
the charge, and then he gave the money to me—I saw it on the desk all the time—this is it.
Prisoner's Defence. I had just sold two ropes of onions; I ran out to see if I could catch the man to get him to come back, as they said it was bad; I thought I could get the onions back.
GUILTY . Aged 33.— Confined Six Months
CASPAR DINCKELL . I am shopman to George Miller Galley, grocer and cheesemonger, Oxford-street, Mile-end. The prisoner came to me on the 27th of March, and asked for 14lbs. weight of coals, which came to 2d., and a halfpenny-worth of wood—he gave me a half-crown—I gave him 2s. 3 1/2, change—I put the half-crown into my pocket—I had no other silver there—I gave it directly to Mr. Kelly—a little after eight, on the 6th of April, the prisoner came again for a halfpenny-worth of wood, and gave me a hilling—I gave him change, and put the shilling into my mouth—I knew it—was a bad one, and showed the shilling to my master—he gave it me back—it was not out of my sight—I afterwards gave it to the policeman—I followed the prisoner three streets round—I could not run any further—I was obliged to call out, "Stop thief "—my master heard my voice, and ran out, and caught him—I have seen a halfpenny which the policeman showed me—I told him it was mine.
Prisoner. Q. How can you swear that I gave you the half-crown unless you marked it? A. I marked it before—I had only one half-crown in my pocket.
GEORGE MILLER GALLEY . I am Dinckell's master. I received a half crown on the 27th of March—I put it into a drawer away from all other money—I kept it in the drawer till the man came again on Saturday night, when I gave it to the policeman—it was the one I got from Dinckell—on Saturday, the 6th of April, I was standing at my shop door—Dinckell brought. me a shilling—I saw it was had—he said, "Never mind," and ran to the corner of the street—I ran after him—the prisoner went up one street, and down another, and hid himself behind a back gate—I called for assistance—a man came, and we took him out of the court—he was fumbling about, and put his hand to his mouth—I called the other person to hold his hand, but it was too late—he had been talking some time before he put his hand to his mouth, and then he was silent for some time.
WILLIAM NICOL (police-constable K 177.) On the 6th of April I got the half-crown and shilling—I searched the prisoner, and found 7 1/2 d. in copper in one pocket, and this halfpenny in the other—I asked Dinckell if he would know any of the halfpence—he said, "Yes, there was one with a hole in it" MR. JOHN FIELD. These are both counterfeit.
GUILTY . Aged 28.— Confined Six Months.
1219. SARAH ANIGER was indicted for stealing 1 gown, value 2l. 2 shawls, 30s.; 1 scarf, 10s.; and 1 handkerchief, 2s. 6d.; the goods of Elizabeth Cocks: 2 sovereigns, 7 shillings, 2 sixpences, and 15l. Bank note; the monies of Henry Cocks, in the dwelling-house of John Cocks.
HENRY COCKS . I live with my father, John Cocks, in Frederick-place, Stepney. On the 12th of March my parents were out—I went out at seven o'clock that evening, and returned a little after nine—the prisoner was in my father's service—about twenty minutes to twelve that night he came down.
and said she heard an alarm, and that there were thieves in the house—I was playing at cards, waiting for my father and mother to come home—we went up stairs, and, on a chest near the staircase-window, I saw a bundle—the window was open seven or eight inches—I then went into the chamber, and saw a bundle there—we went up stairs, and found the drawer the money was contained in was locked, the other drawer adjoining it was open—I could not get my key into the lock—I came down again—the policeman was with me—he said the sergeant would be round in an hour—when he came we went up, and he got the escutcheon off the lock, and we got it open—there had been 9l. 10s. in the drawer—there was a 5l. Bank note—I had seen it safe about eleven in the day—they were all gone in the evening, except two sovereigns and 2s.—there was a 5l. note gone, two sovereigns, and 8s. in silver—there did not appear to have been any force used—I found no thieves in the house—some money has been found in the fire by my sister—nothing has been missed but the money.
MARGARET COCKS . On Tuesday, the 12th of March, the prisoner asked leave to go out to get some rushlights—there was no person in the house but our own family—my brother was out, and my father and mother dined out—a little before twelve o'clock that night the prisoner came and beckoned me out, and said she heard a noise in my mother's bed-room, as though a chair or a bar from the window had fallen down—I was much alarmed, and went into the parlour to my brother—he went up, and did not discover anything, but when the second policeman came, a gown and other things were missed from a top room—on the Saturday night I emptied the waste-paper out of the candle-box—my sister lighted the fire on Sunday morning, and about twenty minutes after she stirred the fire, that lighted the paper, and the money was discovered—she ran out with the hot money in her hand—I took the 1s. 6d. from the fire—I discovered four different sorts of paper burning—one was very thin, as if it were the embers of a 5l., note.
HENRY MILSTEAD (police-constable K 208.) I went to the house—I went up stairs, and saw two drawers open in Mr. Cocks's bed-room—I did not see any marks of violences—they must have been opened by a key—I examined the window and doors—it did not appear that any one came in that way—I went into young Mr. Cocks's room—he said, "My money is all in this drawer, it is all right, but the escutcheon loose, and I can't get the key in"—I took a knife, and got it off—he got the drawer open, and missed the money—the prisoner was sitting on the bed in the room—I said, "This appears like an in-doors robbery"—she said, "I hope you are not going to accuse me"—she was given into custody—none of the gowns and things had been removed out of the house—it did not appear to me that any one had entered the house at all—the shutters were open, and the bar was down, which must have been opened inside.
Prisoners Defence. My young mistress sent me out four times in the course of the morning; I then went down into the kitchen, looked in the candle-box and found there were no rush-lights; I asked if I should fetch them; I was gone about five minutes; I sat down to needle-work, and soon after I heard a noise at the back kitchen door; I went up to the parlour and told my young mistress; I then sat down in the shop, and about ten minutes after we all went with a light into the yard and saw nothing; she told me to go to Cottage-grove and fetch her brother; he was not there; I returned between eight and nine o'clock; about an hour after he came with a gentleman, and jokingly said it was only my young man trying to get in; between
twelve and one o'clock I heard a noise like a chair falling; I went to the parlour; we went up stairs; mistress's bed-room window opened on the leads, and on the box was a bundle; in the passage was another bundle, and in another room another bundle; in the attic we found another bundle, and one of the drawers out of the chest was on the bed; I went with the policeman to the station next day; I was remanded, to know if I had changed the note.
MARGARET COCKS re-examined. On the Saturday night I emptied the paper from the candle-box under the grate, and on the Sunday morning my sister threw it on the fire—there was such a quantity as these sovereigns might be wrapped up in and not drop out—my father is a plumber—we sometimes have five men and sometimes twenty men, but they have no business at the candle-box, which is kept in the beer-cellar—she could go to the cellar before the policeman came—she was out of the room several times.
NOT GUILTY .
ELIZA ANN BENNETT . I am the wife of Henry Bennett, baker, Commercial-terrace, Kensington. About twelve o'clock, on the 25th of March, I was sitting at the back of my shop, and heard a noise—I went and found the prisoner behind the counter on his hands and knees—he got up—I saw the till open, and missed a five shilling piece—he was stopped and taken to the station, and the money found on him—I afterwards found about 4s. more gone from another part of the till.
DANIEL EVANS (police-constable T 176.) The prisoner was brought to the station—I searched him, and asked if he had anything—he said, no—I heard something rattle, and found inside the lining of his waistcoat, a crownpiece, two half-crowns, two shillings, and a sixpence—there was a little hole made in the sleeve of his waistcoat on purpose.
Prisoner. I beg for mercy.
GUILTY . Aged 13.— Confined Three Months.
HENRY RICHARDS . At half-past ten o'clock on the 19th of March, I went into the prisoner's house to see a shipmate—I went into an upper room, and bad a glass of gin from the prisoner—I laid down for half-an-hour—when I awoke I missed my jacket—I went down and charged her with stealing it—she said, "Come out, and have a glass of gin or rum out of the money"—I went with her about 100 yards off, and saw an officer, and gave her in charge—she and another female struck me.
WILLIAM PARAMORE (police-constable K 51.) I heard a disturbance—the prosecutor had the prisoner by her arm—he said, "Take this woman, she has got my jacket"—she said, "He has got the ticket," and I found the ticket in his hat—she struck him on the cheek, and said, "Take that."
Prisoner's Defence. He gave me the jacket to pledge for 8s.; he soon spent the money in drink; the next morning he came and brought the same jacket which he had redeemed the night before, and asked me to pawn it, which I did, for 10s.; he then began drinking rum at half-a-pint at a time.
HENRY RICHARDSON re-examined. She put the ticket into my hand just after I came out—I laid in the bed with one of the women the night before,—I did not give her the jacket to pawn, but she pawned it—I took it out the night before, and said nothing about it—I had given her 4s.
GUILTY . Aged 21.— Confined Nine Months