TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND BY MANOAH SIBLY, PROFESSOR OF SHORT-HAND, No. 35, Goswell-Street, And Published by Authority.
NUMBER V. PART I.
LONDON: Printed and published by HENRY FENWICK, No. 63, Snow Hill. Price TWO SHILLINGS.
BEFORE the Right Honourable THOMAS SKINNER , Esq. LORD MAYOR of the City of LONDON: Sir NASH GROSE , Knt. one of the Justices of His Majesty's Court of King's Bench: Sir JOHN WILLIAM ROSE , Knt. Serjeant at Law, Recorder of the said City; JOHN SYLVESTER , Esq. Common Serjeant of the said City, and others His Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer of the CITY of LONDON, and Justices of Gaol Delivery of NEWGATE, holden for the said City and County of MIDDLESEX.
1st London Jury.
2d London Jury.
3d London Jury.
1st Middlesex Jury.
2d Middlesex Jury.
Wil. Hooper and J. Boden served part of the time on this jury.
ROBERT MANSFIELD was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 30th of April , a livery coat, value 12s. a hat with a silver band, value 14s. a velvet waistcoat, value 10s. and a pair of leather breeches, value 10s. the goods of Jesse Foot .
The prisoner was my servant . I hired him about the 15th or 16th of April, the 15th, I believe, I had a sick horse, and I found him at the office at Charing-cross; and finding him very nigh, I ordered him home, and inquired into his character. I got a written character of him at the office, and he told me, he had been in London about eight or nine months, and had been six months out of place; and he told me, the reason that he left the gentleman that the written character came from was, because he did not like indoor work and that his wages were low. I told him, I would give him twelve guineas a year. I told him, as he had been so long out of place, I would lend him some money; I gave him the key of my corn, and at the expiration of the 13th day and half, I perceived I had lost two sacks of corn; and I took the key away from him.
Q. What day did you take the key from him? - I took the key away from him on the Monday as he went on the Wednesday.
Q. You understood he was gone away? - Yes, I understood so, and that night he was taken at a public house.
Q. What did you miss on his going? - A new hat, with a silver band, a velveret coat, with some silver lace, a waistcoat, and a pair of leather breeches.
Q. Where were they found? - On him; they were found on him at the public house in Marlborough-street.(The clothes produced)
Prisoner. I have no friends.
Jury. Is that the hat that your servant were? - Yes, they were livery clothes for his wear.
RICHARD FOOT sworn.
I am Mr. Foot's nephew; I was going with the prisoner, on the 30th of April, to the stable, to take the horse out to an airing. He told me, that he had left the key at home, and asked me if I would go back to fetch him the key of the stable? I went on for it, and while I was gone, he went away without telling me where he was gone. I see him afterwards; about the middle of the day, in Piccadilly.
Q. How near is that from your uncle's house? - Nearly a mile.
Q. What did you say to him? - I asked him what was the reason that he left my uncle in that manner? he told me, I should know in a few hours time; and that if I would go with him, he would go with me to my uncle's. I followed him, and he went up May-fair, and he went through Collyer's livery stables, a very narrow place that I could not yet down with my horse.
Q. Did he see you follow him? - Yes.
Q. Did he walk away, or run away, or how? - He was walking very fast, and
Q. Did you see any more of him afterwards? - Yes, at a public house next to Swallow-street after eight in the evening.
Q. Is that public house near to your uncle's? - About a quarter of a mile off; it was a public house that he used to lodge at.
Q.Did he lodge at that house when he was at your uncle's? - No, before he lived with my uncle. I went to my uncle, and told him where I see him, and he told me to go to the constable, and I went, and he and I, and another man, went to take him up. We took him to the watch-house.
Q. Was he in the public house when you took him up? - Yes.
Q. Did you hear him say any thing when he was taken up? - I did not go in, the constable did.
Q. Did any conversation pass? - He said something to the constable; I don't know what it was.
Q. Where is the constable? - He is not present.
Prisoner. Did not I say, I am very willing to go home with you, and deliver up the livery, but I have not a pair of small clothes to put on? - He did say, that he had not a pair of breeches to change his clothes.
Prosecutor. The clothes have been locked up in my house ever since they were taken from him. This is the coat and waistcoat that he had on, they were made about a fortnight before, for a servant that wore livery, but they sitted him very well.
Jury. Had he the clothes on at the time? - Yes; instead of dressing in a stable jacket he put these things on in the morning at six o'clock, and they were taken from his back at Marlborough-street, before the magistrate.
Const: It is usual for him to wear his jacket to do his work in of a morning? - yes, it is.
Q. What time was he to have put on these clothes? - After he had cleaned the horse.
Q. How far is the stable from your house? - It may be a hundred yards.
Q. You have no doubt but what these clothes belong to you? - Not the least doubt in the world.
Q. What reason have you to believe that he would not return again? had you any other reason than he did not return with his clothes? - That was my reason.
Prisoner. Did not you strike me? - No.
Prisoner. I had no small clothes to put on, and nothing to put on, and so I put on them things. He told me to put them on over night; I had no other things at his house; me struck me, and did every thing by me he chose; and I never was struck by a master before. That boy is a witness that the gentleman did strike me.
Court. Boy, you hear what he says, speak the truth between your uncle and the prisoner? - He had his hat on one day, and my uncle struck it off.
Prosecutor. That was in consequences of my charging him with the corn.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury, before Mr. Justice GROSS.
243. FRANCES BROWN was indicted for stealing, on the 30th of April , a woman's cotton gown value 10. s woman's cloth cloak, value 10s. a woman's silk cloak, value 4s. two women's muslin aprons, value 3s. a check linen apron, value 4s. a silk handkerchief, va-Elizabeth Dennis .
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - No, I do not.
Q. When did you lose the articles mentioned in the indictment? - The 30th of April; the prisoner opened the door, and went into the room.
Q. Do you keep house? - No, I am only a lodger.
Q. In whose house? - John Barrow's; she lodged in the same house.
Q. How long did she lodge there? - But one night.
Q. How do you know the prisoner took the things? - We found them at the pawnbroker's.
Q. When was it you missed them? - The same night, about eleven o'clock.
Q. Was you gone out? - No, I only went in to my landlord.
Q. How long did you stay? - About two hours; and when I returned, I found the things were gone. My landlord took her up. I found the duplicates in her room. I found the things at Mr. Nicholls's.
ALLERTUS NICHOLLS sworn.
I am a pawnbroker; I live on Cockhill; I produce a cotton gown, a woman's cloth cloak, &c. pawned by the prisoner at the bar, on the 30th of April, between seven and eight in the evening.
Q. You are sure it was the prisoner that brought them? - I am certain.
Prosecutrix. They are mine; I know the cloak very well; and this handkerchief, I have burnt a hole in it.
Prisoner. My husband gave them me, and I gave him the duplicates; he lodged at the house.
Court to Prosecutrix. Did her husband lodge there? - There was a man there, but I never see her husband in my life.
Q. Does Mrs. Dennis lodge at your house? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember the prisoner lodging there? - Yes; she came the 29th.
Q. Did any body come with her as her husband? - Yes, John Brown, they called his name.
Q. Did they take this room as man and wife? - Yes, they did.
Q. Do you recollect Mrs. Dennis being down with you for an hour or two? - Yes.
Q. How long did she stay? - For an hour and a half, or two hours.
Q. Do you recollect whether the prisoner was at your house at that time? - There was nobody in the house but the prisoner and her husband, and Mrs. Dennis.
Q.Did you let her in? - No, the door was on the latch.
Q. Did you see her come in? - Yes.
Q. Did her husband come in with her on that night? - No.
Prisoner. My husband took the lodging, he worked in Ratcliffe-highway, he worked there a couple of days, for Mr. Taylor; and my husband wished me to come to this gentleman's house, because there was a closet in it, and when I got there I went out to buy some cups and saucers, and I see my husband at the public house, and he called to me to the window, and told me there was a bundle to carry out for a guinea, and I took the things to the pawnbroker's, and had a guinea for them, and I gave him the guinea, every farthing of it , and I asked them to go to my husband the night I was taken up for these things, and ask him how he came by these things.
Prisoner. I told the justice so, that he went off, and I never set fight of him since, I had been but three months in London, from Ireland, about nine weeks when this happened.
Jury to Prosecutrix. Was your door locked? - Yes, I had the key in my pocket.
GUILTY . (Aged 30.)
Imprisoned six months in the House of Correction , and fined 1s .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I have seen the prisoner, yesterday. This ladder I left in the yard about ten o'clock, and the watchman stopped him with it.
Q. Is your yard open? - No, there is a wall and a gate.
I am a watchman.
Q. Did you at any time see the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, at two o'clock on Tuesday morning, he had a ladder.
Q.Was it near Mr. Murray's? - Yes, it might be a quarter of a mile distant.
Q. You stopped him, did you? - Yes; I asked him what he was going to do with that ladder? and he said,to take it home; I asked him where he brought it from? he said Mary-le-bone; I asked him whose it was? and he said it was Mr. Holmes's, and then he contradicted himself, and said it was Mr. Morgan's, in High-street, I knocked Mr. Morgan up, and he came down, and he said that was not his ladder.(Produced.)
Prosecutor. It is my ladder, I know it by this round ring being put in it a fortnight back.
Prisoner. I was coming from Edgware, and as I was coming along by the Red Lion, I picked up the ladder by this man's house, and this watchman stopped me.
GUILTY . (Aged 35.)
Imprisoned six months in the House of Correction and fined 1s .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
Q. You are the wife? - I am.
Q. Where do you live? - In the parish of St. Giles's.
Q. What is your husband? - He is on board a ship , I follow mantua making.
Q. What have you to say respecting this chintz? - It is a gown I had to make for another person, five yards of chintz.
Q. Did you find her when you came back? - Yes, the prisoner was there, she proposed that as I came back with two pounds of meat, to go and look for her child; I desired her if she found the child, to come back and have some tea; and when she went out the girl told me that she had put something under her petticoats.
Q. Did you find the chintz afterwards? - No, never found it since, and it has hindered me from getting work, people were afraid of trusting me since that.
Prisoner. Mrs. Ryan, was not you out from nine till three? - I was out.
Q. Pray had I any time to take the gown when the child was there, and I was dressing her, and the cat run away with one of the herrings; I would be glad to know why the girl did not tell her before?
Court to Prosecutrix. What day was this? - Last Monday fortnight.
Q. Were you at Mrs. Ryan's last Monday fortnight? - Yes, between six and seven in the evening.
Q. Was Mrs. Ryan there when you first went? - Yes.
Q. Was the prisoner there? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember Mrs. Ryan at any time going out, and leaving Mrs. Hutchins in the lodgings? - Yes, she went out between six and seven.
Q. While Mrs. Ryan went out did you stay with the prisoner? - I did.
Q. Did you see the prisoner do any thing after Mrs. Ryan went out, and you staid in the room? - Yes, I see her coming from the box, and shuffling something up under her petticoats, and I see a corner of it hang down; then I went out of the door about my own business, and when I went out I told my mother.
Q. Did you stay with the prisoner? - The prisoner went away before I went away.
Q. Did you ask her any thing why she took Mrs. Ryan's gown? - No.
Q. Why did not you? - She went away while I was talking with my mother, after she was gone I told Mrs. Ryan.
Q. You told your mother of it first, did you then? - I did.
Q. Did Mrs. Ryan ask you about it, or did you tell her of it your own accord? - I told her that the woman went to the box and took something out of the box.
Q. To Prosecutrix. Did she come back after she took these things? - Yes.
Q. That afternoon? - Yes; and at the same time she had the gown with her, as I suppose.
Prisoner. The prosecutrix told me that I had stole some things away from her; I am sorry that I had any connection with the woman; she is a very bad character. I work very hard for my bread.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
I am shopman to Mr. Warner, a pawnbroker and salesman , No. 14, Whiterow, Spitalfields . We generally hang up things for sale; the prisoner came in on Friday the 8th of May, between twelve and one o'clock at noon, and there were four or five people to be served before her, at the counter, this woman did not appear to come forward as if she wanted to be served; I heard something go wap, and I turned round, and perceived the prisoner put a pair of breeches under her cloak, and walk fast out of doors; I immediately jumped over the counter and followed her, and sent for an officer.
Q. Did you find the goods on her? - Yes. (Produced.) This is the property.
Q. Are you sure that is your master's property? - Yes, I am sure. They hung up in the shop; I hung them up myself.
Prisoner. I went to buy an old shift, and I see this pair of breeches laying at the door; I picked them up at the threshold of the door.
GUILTY . (Aged 58.)
Imprisoned six months in the House of Correction and fined 1s .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
I am a common stage carter ; I come weekly from London to Suffolk; this was a little parcel in my great coat pocket.
Q. When was it lost? - Last Saturday week, as I was going home, I stopped to have a pint of beer at the Red Cow Inn ; James Harding see this man take something out of my cart; he told me of it, and I looked out of the window, and I saw this man with it under his arm, the prisoner at the bar I pursued him as fast as I could; he dropped the coat; it was picked up by me; Mr. Evans pursued him near a mile and took him.
Q. What was found on him? - Nothing.
Q. What became of the the blue? - That remained in the coat after it was picked up.
Q. Did you see the prisoner afterwards? - Yes, when he was taken.
Q. What did you say to him? - Nothing at all; he is an entire stranger to me.
Q. Did you see him afterwards? - Yes; he said nothing.
Prisoner. I did not see the cart at all; I was in my master's yard, leading my horses to water at the time they took me.
I am a headborough; this is the great coat that they brought me.
Q. To Prosecutor. Is that your great coat? - Certainly it is.
Q. Is there any blue in it? - No, the blue was delivered to a gentleman at Aldgate.
GUILTY . (Aged 18.)
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
JAMES PRYOR was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 13th of May , a silver table spoon, value 11s. the goods of the Honourable George Capel , commonly called Lord Viscount Malden .
I am servant to Lord Malden.
Q. Was he robbed at any time? - Yes, on Wednesday last.
Q.Did you see the robbery? - No, I did not.
Q. Where was the spoon taken from? - From the kitchen, between nine and ten o'clock in the morning.
Q. Do you know the prisoner? - Yes; the prisoner brings things to light the fire, charcoal and wood .
Q. What lead to the discovery of the prisoner? - That person offering it to a silversmith.
THOMAS SUTHERLAND sworn.
On Wednesday last, between the hours of nine and ten, this lad brought this spoon in to me.
Q. Do you produce it? - I do; I have had it ever since.
Q. Is it a silver table spoon? - It is. He offered it to me to sell; I asked him where he lived? - he first told me he lived in Grosvenor-square; he said he had only lived there two days, and he could not tell me justly the name. I asked him more closely, and then he told me he lived in Grosvenor-street. I immediately thought that the spoon was stole, and I inquired about it; I found it belonged to Lord Malden.
Q. Did you make any application to the servants about it? - I did the same morning. I have kept it ever since; it is the same I had from the prisoner, in the same state as it is now.
Q. To Smith. Is that the same spoon you lost? - Yes, it is the very same.
Q. Did you see this gentleman, the silversmith? - I did.
Q. On that you knew it was lost? - Yes.
Q. Were there any more missing? - No, there were no more missing.
Prisoner. I plead not guilty.
Court to Sutherland. Do you know whether this boy was an apprentice, or only a servant? - He was only a servant, his master sent for him out of the country to carry out things for him.
GUILTY . (Aged 21.)
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Q. Did you give her the beer? - No, the boy drew her the beer.
Q. What time of the day? - It was in the afternoon about half after four o'clock. I went after her myself and took her.
Q. Where was the pot, in her pocket? - No, in her hand.
Q. How far was she from your house? - About two hundred yards. When I overtook her (Produced) she said somebody had been playing the rogue with her in the room. There was nothing in the
Q.Have you kept the pot from that time to this? - Yes, I have.
Q. Have you ever sold pots since you kept house? - No.
Q. Did you examine to see if any of your pots were missing? - I found this missing.
Q. Did you count your pots? - Yes, after I had taken her.
Jury. Was the woman in the habit of using your house? - No, I never see her before; the people that kept the house before me knew her.
Q. Do you think that she might have had beer out of your house? - Yes, the might. I have lost six dozen.
Court. She had the pot in her hand, was there any beer in the pot? - I cannot say; there might be the least drop in the world; but I see nothing else but snuff in it, which she put in on purpose to clear herself.
Prisoner. I asked you for the change of a shilling, and you did not give it me. I had two quarterns of gin. Did I steal your pot? - You called me a b-ch and a w-re.
SAMUEL BOND sworn.
I am a servant out of place, I was going along Duke-street; the prisoner had the pot in her hand when I see her.
Q.Had she any beer in the pot? - A very little.
Q. Did she carry it open? - Yes.
Q.In her hands, as any other person might carry it? - Yes, it was.
Q. Was she going from or to the house? - From the house; the landlord came up to her, and he said, she had stole the pot; and she said, she had not; but that he had played the rogue with her; she said, she would go into the doctor's shop with it.
Q. Was there any snuff in it? - There was something in it.
Q. Did you see her put the snuff in it? - I cannot say I did.
Q. The pot was taken from her? - Yes.
Q. To Prosecutor. This woman lives in the neighbourhood? - Yes, she does.
Q. Had you ever seen her in the house? - No, not that I know of.
Q. In what manner did she ask for the beer? - She called for a pot of beer.
Q. Did she say she was going to carry out the pot of beer? - No; it is my pot, Wm. Young is on it.
Prisoner. Last Monday week I went to this man's house. I was told that the landlord of my house was there. I went there, and he was drinking with two more men; and I called for a pint of beer, and they asked me to drink. I called for two pots more, and the last time that I had the beer to drink, they said, O, you b-b, you have put jalap in the pot; and I thought it was jalap that somebody had been playing the rogue with, and so I said, I will take it to the doctor's, to see whether it is jalap or snuff.
Court to Prosecutor. Did she give you the money for the beer? - No, to the man; she paid the man.
Q. Had the two men with her? - I did not take notice; there were two in the room.
Q.Did they come with her? - No, they did not.
Q.Now, about the snuff, who put that in the pot, do you know? - She put it in; I see her do it.
Prisoner. I work hard, and never was charged with a robbery in my life.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
SUSANNA TOOLEY and ANN CROSBY were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 14th of April , two gowns, value 15s. five yards of printed cotton, value 5s. a pair of breeches, value 5s. a dimity petticoat, value 4s. a black gown, value 3s. a silk cloak, value 2l. a silk tippet, value 6d. a linen shift, value 1s. 6d. a little black cloak, value 6d. a muslin neckcloth, value 1s. and a pair of stockings, value 6d. the goods of Edward Aston , in his dwelling house .
Q. What time did this happen? - About nine at night. I was out that evening.
Q. Do you know any thing about it? - No more than by a person that lodged in the house.
I am a headborough. On the 14th of April I was sent for, at nine o'clock at night, concerning this affair, at Mr. Aston's, in order to go after his servant that had robbed him; I told them there was no time to be lost.
Q.Did they know where she lived? - They said yes.
Q.They told you they suspected the prisoner, I suppose? - Yes; I went to where the prisoner lodged (Tooley) who lodged with the other prisoner at the bar, and a child, they were all three in bed together, in fact I desired Susanna Tooley to get up and dress herself, and took her away, when I got her into the street, she asked me where I was going to carry her?
Q. What did you do with the other? - The other at that time was left behind; when I got her about had my down the street she wished me to call her matter back, and she would confess the whole.
Q. Did you promise her any thing? - Not any thing; she said that the property was very safe, and he should have it in the morning, I told her that would not do , we must have it to night; I asked her where it was? she told me in the Curtain-road, at one Mrs. Duboix's; I went with her according to her directions, and found it under the bed, in the room where she said it was.
Q. In Mrs. Duboix's lodging house? - No, I believe not, she is a lodger in the house, I don't know who is the landlord of the house.
Q.Where did you find the things contained in the indictment? - In a bundle under the bed, she shewed me the room, and told me it was under the bed.
Q. Did either of the prisoner's lodge where the bundle was found under the bed? - No.
Q. Do you know any thing else? - She said she received them in the sight of the other prisoner, that she waited for her while she committed the robbery, and advised her to do it likewise, it was a voluntary confession of her own; Ann Tooley came from Oxford, as she relares, and the other person bid her call her aunt, and she told her to rob her master, and get what she could, and what was produced, was to send Ann Tooley back again into the country. (The things produced.)
I think it was between, eight and nine o'clock, or about nine o'clock at night. the 14th of April, that this Ann Crosby and Tooley both came into my place together (I live in Curtain-road) they came in both of them, with a bundle, Ann Crosby had it in her lap, and said, I thank God, the girl has got the best of the things, and to-morrow she is going into the country to her father; I said it is the best thing she can do; she said she was going to Hoxton, and says she, I
Prosecutor. I know the things, there is a pair of breeches with the button off the left knee; a dark cotton gown, I bought it myself, it is worth five shillings; I know the cloak by the pattern, I never see the fellow of it, to my knowledge, it is worth a guinea; a light cotton gown, I bought it, it is worth four shillings.
Q. What are you, Mr. Aston? - A weaver. There is no other that I can speak to; my wife is in court.
Mrs. ASTON sworn.
Q. Look at those five yards of cotton, is it your's? - Yes, it is worth five shillings, I know it exceeding well, by the pattern, by having the whole piece to make frocks; the black gown I know by having it a good while, and by the trimming in particular; a shift worth eighteen-pence, I am certain it is mine; a little black silk cloak, value sixpence, a handkerchief worth sixpence, a pair of stockings, value sixpence; I believe my husband swore to a pair of breeches, here is a white dimity coat worth five shillings.
Q. That you are sure is your's? - Yes.
Prisoner Tooley. I wish to say that I know nothing about this robbery, this robbery was laid to me before I came away from my place.
Prisoner Crosby. I have nothing to say, no further than I know nothing at all about it; I was in the bed when the alarm was made of this robbery, and I was taken out of bed from my child.
Court to Mrs. Aston. When did you miss these things? - I turned her away on the Saturday, and on the Tuesday following she did it.
Q. Do you know whether they were in your house on the Tuesday following? - Yes, I see them there, I am very positive.
Q. What day of the month was Tuesday? - The 14th.
Q. When were they taken up? - Tuesday evening.
Q.Then you missed them the same evening they were taken up? - Yes, about ten minutes after it was done.
Q. Had you seen the things in your house the day before?
Ann Crosby, GUILTY . (Aged 35.)
Of stealing to the value of 35s.
Imprisoned two years in the House of Correction and fined 1s .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
Q. Were you robbed of three linen sheets at any time? - Yes, on the 9th of May, Saturday.
Q. Was the prisoner a servant of your's? - She was not, she lived with me about three months, had a furnished room of me.
Q. Were these part of the furniture of that room? - No.
Q. At that time was she living with you, when there things were taken from you? - Yes.
Q. Did you miss them this Saturday? - Yes, about the hour of seven o'clock in the evening.
Q. Where did you miss them from? - From another apartment, of some of the lodgers.
Q.Is that lodger here? - No.
Q. You let lodgings? - Yes.
Q. Where did you find them? - Here is the pawnbroker, she delivered the duplicates to the constable.
Q.How came the constable not to be here? - I don't know.
Q. Is the pawnbroker here? - Yes.
Q. Should you know your own sheets again when you see them? - No.
Q. Have you heard the prisoner say any thing about the sheets, when you took her up? I heard her say before the pawnbroker that life had pawned them there, that was all.
Q. Is there any body here to give evidence but the pawnbroker? - That is all.
(The sheets produced)
Q.Now I understand you that you cannot swear to these sheets? - O, dear, no, I could not swear to them.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Q. Did you lose any thing at any time, and when? - A piece of muslin. On Tuesday, the 28th of April, about four o'clock, I was not by when the person first took it, my servant was.
Q. You are a shopman to Mr. Atkinson? - Yes, he is a linen draper, in Bishopsgate-street without,No. 17, in the City of London. On Tuesday the 28th of April, the prisoner, came into our shop, to buy a piece of muslin; I shewed her several; believe it was about four o'clock in the afternoon; she said she wanted about a yard and a half; - I shewed her several; she said she fixed none of them. I left the wrapper before her while I went to the other end of the shop, to get another piece I thought would suit her, and while I was gone; I see her move her arms, which I suspected she had put something underneath her arms; when I came to shew her this piece of muslin, she did not like it; I shewed her several others but she would not give the price for them; I though she had got something; as she was going, I had a mind to see; I reached over the counter, litted up her cloak, and found the muslin under her arm.
Q. Where is the muslin? - The constable has got it, I believe.
I am a constable of Bishopsgate without, I have got the muslin, I have kept it ever since.
Macclugh. That is the piece of muslin; I know it by several marks on it.
Mr. Knowlys. Do you know how many pieces of muslin were laying on the counter? - No I do not.
Q.Supposing, for instance, you sell any of these muslins, the private mark goes with them? - If it goes altogether.
Q. You do not know what number of muslins you have? - No, we do not.
Q. Therefore you cannot judge from the number of them, that you had lost any of them? - No, I cannot.
Court. When did you say you had seen this muslin? - A little time before the prisoner came into the shop.
Q. The same muslin you took from underneath her arm? - Yes.
Atkinson. I was up stairs and the bell was rung, and I immediately ran down, and this man had hold of the prisoner, and the muslin under her cloak and I had her kept in that situation till Sapwell, the constable came.
Q. Had you known any thing of her before? - No.
Mr. Knowlys. What partner have you? - None.
Q. Any body engaged in this business besides yourself? - None.
Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.
Of stealing but not privately.
Imprisoned three months in Newgate , and fined 1s .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Mrs. KAVANNAH sworn.
Q. Is he your husband? - Yes.
Q. What did you lose? - A gown patche, I believe the 22d of April.
Q.What did the gown patch contain? - Five yards and a quarter.
Q. How did you lose it? - It was taken out of the shop. This man took it out of the shop; the prisoner was introduced to me as an injured man, I allowed him to come to my house to eat and drink as often as he thought proper.
Q. How long had he been accustomed to come to your house? - From two to three months, I believe.
Q. In what manner was this taken? - He took the opportunity to take it out of the shop, by seeing no person present.
Q. How do you know he took it? - I only believe it by my servant telling me of it. It was brought to be glazed to my house. I did not see it taken; I was out at the time.
JOHN BATCHELOR sworn.
On the 23d of April, I was working at the bottom of my master's shop, and this gentleman was in the shop, it was about two or three o'clock in the afternoon, as near as I can say; I see him go out of the shop, and I immediately had a suspicion that he had done something.
Q. This prisoner was in the shop? - Yes; he was there a good while by himself, and he went out of the shop, and there were a great many cottons and callicoes laying by the door, and I had some suspicion that he had taken one; I knew there were ten gown pieces laying, and I took the little boy with me to a pawnbroker's, and they knew nothing of it; and coming back I see the prisoner in Carter-lane, and he went into a chandler's shop. where he had left the gown patch.
Q. You don't know that of your own knowledge? - The people told me so.
Q. Are the people here? - No. He came out of the chandler's shop, I and put the patch under his coat, and I followed him down into St. Paul's Church-yard, and stopped him with the patch under his coat, and told him my mistress wanted to speak to him; as we were returning back to our house he took the patch under his coat, and told him my mistress wanted to speak to him; as we were returning back to our house he took the patch and threw it into a pawnbroker's shop, the corner of Sermon-lane and Carter-lane.
Q. You see him do that? - I did. Then I took hold of him by the coat, and had him home, and my mistress gave charge to the constable of him.
I am going of fifteen.
Q. Do you live with Kavannah? - Yes.
Q. As an apprentice? - No. I went out with this gentleman, and he brought me to a pawnbroker's shop, and the gown was not there, and we were going down Carter-lane, and we saw the gentleman(the prisoner) coming down after us, and we turned into a street, and waited there a good while, thought he would come by, and I went up Carter-lane, and I see him come out of a chandler's shop, and put the gown patch under his coat; and we went after him into St. Paul's Churchyard; and at the corner of Sermon-lane, he threw it into a pawnbroker's, and I went in and took it out.
(The patch produced.)
Batchelor. This is the patch; I know it by 259 on it.
Q.Had you seen that before you gave it up to the constable? - Yes.
Prosecutrix. To the best of my knowledge is mine; but the boy knows better, because he received it from the porter.
Prisoner. The first beginning of my acquaintance with Mr Kavannah was by a countryman and his wife; one Sunday in particular, I happened to meet this countryman, so in course we went in to drink together, and I told him I was going to sell part of my land, and go to sea, to try my luck; and he told me he would help me to a person that would buy my land of me, and he took 'me to Mr. Kavannah; Mr. Kavannah was to give me four hundred pounds for it, it was worth six hundred pounds, and so he was to get two hundred pounds by me. in a fews days after we went down to counsellor Gould, and he refused the deeds; at last we had a contract between us, which I signed, and I was to give him a meeting at Glastenbury, in Somersetshire, where this land laid. Mr. Kavannah, before I came there had been and too possession of this land, and ordered the tenants to pay no rent but to him; I had a thought of his doing this; I was persuaded to go down into the country, and I went to Mrs. Kavannah, and I asked her for little money; I told her I was determined to to go; so she let me have three half guineas, two shillings, and five shillings in had halfpence. I told them I meant to go down next morning, and they would insist on my sleeping there that night; I went to bed that night there, and instead of putting my breeches under my head, I put them down by the bed side. The next morning I found two of my half guineas were gone; at last it was found out that the servant maid had got the two half guineas; so I had the two half guineas back again. I went down to the Swan with two Necks, Lad-lane, and took the coach directly, and when I came to Glastenbury, I understood that Mr. Kavannah had been to my tenants; and I wrote to Mrs. Kavannah, and she sent me down the gown patches while I was there. It is a swindling job. I am very glad it is now brought forward, or else if I had staid longer in the house I should have been hanged.
Q. What do you say about taking this gown patch away? - I was to have gown patches of them, and they wanted me to have a watch, and ten pounds worth of these halfpence, or any thing that they could not cleverly tell what to do with.
Q. To Mrs. Kavan ah. Had this man any right to take any patches? - I under stood that he had been in prison for fourteen of fifteen months, that his wife had kept him there; I thought he was a very much injured man, in concequence of that, I told him he might come to my house, and eat and drink till he could do some thing for himself, the land that he talks about, by inquiry, we found it was so embarrassed that he could not fell it; Mr Kavannah had a power of attorney, and i quired into the situation of it, and found that he had made away with it.
Q. What could induce you to give a man money that you knew nothing of? - The person that introduced him to me said, that he would have done it if he was able.
Prisoner. When I came up to Mrs. Kavannh, she had put by some gown patches and a watch, and several other things. I was kept enticed both day and night, stupid and drunk every day and night ever since I had he concerns with Mr. Kavannah. I have got no friend here in town.
GUILTY . (Aged 45.)
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Q. Do you know any thing of Barker? - He is a man employed by me.
Q. A journeyman carpenter ? - Yes.
Q. How long has he worked for you? - Near seven years; I know nothing of the transaction. I was in the country at the time.
I am a bricklayer. I was going along Grub-street, the 11th of this month, and I see the prisoner Barker before me, it was between two and three, he had got a parcel of nails on his shoulder, as though he had been coming from the ironmongers, I knew that he was a carpenter, and had worked in some premises of mine for Mr. Patch. I see him go into an old iron shop, and Grub-street; curiousity led me to watch what he was going to do there, and I walked backwards and forwards by the iron shop and I heard something rattle in the scale like nails, and going by the second time, I heard somebody say, there is four pounds; I watched him out, and see the paper much reduced. I could not see any body particularly in the shop, it was so barricadoed with iron things. I then watched him home to his master's shop, and see him deposit the remaining quantity of nails that he had on a work bench. I sent for an officer and had him taken up, knowing Mr. Patch to he gone into the country. I then went into Moor-lane and go an officer, and went to the house where I see the man go in and come out again. I went into the shop and asked this prisoner whether she had bought some nails? she said she had bought four
Q. Were they new or old? - New nails. I asked her how she could be so imprudent to buy new nails coming from an iromongers and out of a paper as they were of a man that she must know to be a carpenter by his apron? she said they were not shot out of a paper, they were shot out of a bag, I gave the constable charge of her and the nails.
Jury. What nails are they? - They are what the ironmongers call threepenny trunks.
Court. What became of the parcel of nails that he laid on the board? - I gave them to the officer, they weighed ten pounds.
Mr. Knapp. You was merely passing by at this time that you see the prisoner? - Yes, I was.
Q. He had something that appeared to you to be nails? - Yes.
Q. They were wrapped up, I take it for granted, in brown paper? - They were.
Q. You did not see them open in Barker's custody? - I did not.
Q. Then whether they were nails or not, till you went into Simpson's house, you did not know? - I did not.
Q. Now, when you came to Simpson's house, she immediately told you that she had bought something? - Yes.
Q. She told you what she had paid for them? - She did; she had bought four pounds, and paid two shillings for them.
Q. In what part of the house were they? - On the opposite side of the counter on a shelf.
Q. Not concealed? - Nothing more than any thing else in the shop.
- BOGGY sworn.
I am an ironmonger. The man came to me as his master for some three penny trunck nails, about two o'clock.
Q.What quantity did he ask for? - No particular quantity, I gave him two thousand, which weigh seventeen pounds and a half.
Mr. Knapp. Are you an ironmonger for yourself? - Yes.
Q. You carry on the business? - Yes.
Q.These nails were your property of course? - Yes.
Q. You sold them to him? - Yes, for his master.
Q. His master never had them delivered over to him? - I don't know nothing of that.
Q.What were they worth? - Thirteen pence halfpenny per pound, the paper was not marked.
Michael Davenport was called on his recongnizance.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
255. SARAH SIMS was indcited for feloniously stealing, on the 6th of May , a linen frock, value 1s. a cotton skirt, value 1s. a linen cap, value 1s. 6d. and a silk sash, value 6d. the goods of Thomas Moon .
The things are mine; I am only the prosecutor.
MARTHA MOON sworn.
Q. You are the wife of the last witness, Thomas Moon? - Yes.
Q. How many children have you? - Four; George, Thomas, Ann, and Rachell. This day fortnight, (my three eldest children goes to school) it being a holiday, they asked leave to go to play; at half past two they went into Checquer-court .
Q. Where do you live? - In St. Martin's-lane.
Q. How near is that to it? - I have a door that opens into it at the back part of my house; they were absent about a quarter of an hour, and the eldest returned and asked for a bit of string, and said, that the woman would give him a knife, if he carried a woman a bit of string to make a kite of. I asked what woman? He said, Mrs. Smith; they called her Mrs. Smith. I went down the court immediately, but saw neither the child nor the woman. Then I fought after my husband, and alarmed my neighbours with the fright, and they were all searching of her for five hours.
Q. Which child was it you lost? - The young one, Ann. I sent all ways to seek her. Many people went, but could hear nothing of her, until the publican where I have my beer came and told me, Sarah Rutlidge came in and said, that a person had seen the prisoner have the child on her lap at the end of the Chequere. I could not find her out for an hour and a half after. In the mean time, Daniel Reeves brought me a sash; he deals in clothes.
Q. That was the sash you knew your child had on? - Yes Search was made after her; she had been at another shop or two to offer it to sell, and could not. I did not hear of her till about half past six, or near seven. I had her then brought to me from St. Ann's workhouse; Sarah Price carried her there.
Q. Who was she brought to you by? - I was not in at the time she was brought home from the workhouse.
Q. It was your child? - Yes.
Q. When your child was brought to you, had she on the same things as when she left you? - No; she had lost her frock, her cap, her top skirt, and her sash.
Q. That was the sash that you told me a person had brought to you? - Yes, the same sash.
Prisoner. I have no questions to ask, no more than what she says, is not true.
I live in Crown-court, Princes-street, Soho.
Q. Do you know Mrs. Moon? Do you know where she lives? - Yes, I know now.
Q. How far do you live from her house? - About a quarter of a mile. On Wednesday last the prisoner came with a child in her arm to my shop, about half after three, the 6th of May, and asked me if I wanted to buy a sash? and I said, no. She told me, if I knew her distress I would buy it. I asked her why? She said, she had got three children, and, says she, see what a sweet creature I have in my arms, and she had got nothing to eat the whole day, I should do a charity if I would give her three-pence for the sash. Accordingly I goes and changes a shilling, and gave her three-pence for it.
Q. How old did the child appear to you to be? - About two years old.
Q. How was he child dressed? - Quite clean, a frock and cap, and every thing on, only no sash.
Q. Did you inform any body of this afterwards? - Yes; my wife was not at home, and she heard of a child being lost while she was out, and comes home and told the children to take care, for a child was lost, and described the child;
Q. To Mrs. Moon. How old is your child? - Two years and nine months.
Q. The last witness was the person that applied to you with the sash? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember seeing the prisoner at the bar at any time last Tuesday fortnight, or any time? - I see her the 6th of May, with the child on her knee, and the two little boys at the side of her.
Q.Should you know the child again if you was to see it? - Yes.
Q. Are you sure it was the prisoner that you see? - Yes, I am sure of it.
Q. Where was it you saw her? - Facing Northumberland-house, the corner of Checquer-court, sitting on a step; it was about half after two, as nigh as I can guess.
Q.How came you to know the prisoner? - Because she used to come to our house for a glass, of ale; and she was there that morning, and had two glasses.
Q.What is your house? - The Rose and Crown, St. Martin's-lane.
Q. I believe you heard of this afterwards, and you was the cause of her apprechension? - Yes, I heard of it afterwards, and I recollected seeing her;(looks at the child) that was the child, I did not mind the dress; I knew the child, we serve Mrs. Moon with beer. I told my mistress of it, and she informed Mrs. Moon of it.
Prisoner. It is no use to ask her any questions, for she tells very great stories.
Q. Will you be good enough to look at the child; did you ever see the child before? - Never till I took it out of Rider's-court, a few minutes before six, or about six, I cannot say to a few minutes.
Q. Where did you find it? - Crying, in Rider's-court, Cranbourn-alley. One part comes into Cranbourn-alley and the other into Newport-street.
Q. To Reeves. Is that the child the woman had in her arms? - Yes, it is, when she sold me the sash.
Q. To Price. You say you found the child crying in Rider's-court? - Yes; I brought it to the house where I live, and then we sent for the beadle of St. Ann's parish; I live in St. Ann's parish; then I took it up with the beadle to the workhouse; we thought it might be owned; and as soon as I delivered it there, I came out of the house, and returned again; and some persons told me, that the people were there waiting for it, at my house, the friends of the child were. I brought it back, and delivered the child to a man, an acquaintance of Mr. Moon.
Q. To Moon. Who was that friend? - A publican, that lives next door to me.
Prisoner. I never see the lady in my life.
Q. Did that person (Price) deliver a child to you, on the 6th of May at the workhouse? - Yes; she delivered a child to me between six and seven o'clock in the afternoon, this day fortnight. I was called down and I took it up to the matron, and I had it till this gentlewoman came again for the child, and then I delivered it to her again. I put a little bed-gown on it; it had nothing on it but an under petticoat, and a shift.
Q. To Price. What had it on when you found it? - A pair of stays, an under petticoat, a shift, and a pair of shoes.
Q. Had it on any frock? - No, nor upper skirt, nor cap, nor sash.
THOMAS MUMFORD sworn.
Here are the duplicates that were found on the prisoner, which relate to the child's things; the frock, cap, and petticoat of the child. I did not find them myself, my wife found them.
Mrs. MUMFORD sworn.
Q.Did you find any duplicates on the prisoner Sims? - Yes; on the 7th of May, between eleven and twelve o'clock, I found two tickets belonging to the child's frock, skirt and cap.
I am a pawnbroker, in Panton-street, Haymarket.
Q. Did the prisoner ever come to you to pawn any thing? - Yes; on the 6th of May, about one or two o'clock in the forenoon, she came to pawn a frock and cap. (Produced.)
Mrs. Moon. I know it to be the property that the child wore at the time that I missed her, by the oldness of it, and the mending of it. I have not the least doubt about it.
Q. To Turner. Was it on a Wednesday or a Thursday? - Wednesday; she pledged it in the name of Parfield.
Q. To Mrs. Moon. What time was it that you went out and missed the child? - Near half past two.
Q. To Turner. Was it noon, or morning she came to you? - About noon.
Q. Might it be two or three? - Yes; it was not so late as four.
Q. You are sure with respect to the prisoner? - Yes, I am sure with respect to her.
Q. You cannot be mistaken about her? - No.
Q. What are you? - A pawnbroker.
Q. Did you ever see the prisoner before? - Yes, I see her on the 6th of May; she pawned a child's petticoat with me for sixpence.
Q. Where do you live? - No. 21, Green-street, Liecester-fields; (produced) as near as I can recollect it was between four and five.
Q. To Mrs. Moon. Is that yours? - Yes, I had lately made it up.
Q. You are sure your child had it on that day? - Yes, I am very sure of it.
Q. To Baxter. Pray did you inquire how she came by it? - No, I don't recollect I did; but I took her name, Ann Smith, St. Martin's-lane.
Q. To Turner. Did you inquire of the prisoner at the bar how she came by these things? - I don't recollect I did.
Prisoner. I came from Wapping last Wednesday was a fortnight, to the best of my knowledge, when I came to the town I went to Mrs. Rutledge's, where I had a glass of ale; I had not drank any thing all the way coming along. I went out of their house, and was not in the house all the day afterwards. I met with a person that I had known some years, and she asked me to go with her and drink. I went with her, and I came back, and went to Mr. Jenkins's office, to see for a place. He said, I might call to-morrow. I met with this woman again, and I had something else to drink, which, not eating any thing, it got quite in my head. This woman said to me, let us take this child, and take a little bit of a walk. We bought the child a basket, and went in to have something to drink. About four o'clock in the afternoon, the woman asked me what money I had in my pocket? I said I had nothing. She said, let us take off the child's frock and skirt and pledge it. I said, I would not; I have had children of my own. She said, she knew the mother of the child; and she took them off, and pledged them; and the next morning I went in to Mr. Rutledge's, to have a glass, and to hear
GUILTY . (Aged 22.)
The Recorder immediately passed judgment as follows:
Prisoner, the wickedness and profligacy of your crime is so much superior to any thing that we have heard of in this court, at this session, that it makes it necessary that your judgment should be separated from the common felons, and that you should immediately receive the sentence of the court. The stealing of a few articles of wearing apparel, would not, itself, receive a very severe sentence, but when that theft is attended with a very aggravated circumstance of depriving parents of a child, it becomes, in my opinion, a most gross and a most heinous offence. It is, in my mind, very little short of the crime of murder. I have not words, nor will I attempt to describe the feelings of the unfortunate parents, who may be thus deprived of their children. I have to lament, that the law in this land does not provide a distinct punishment, equal and adequate to this act of profligacy of your's. But, collaterally, the court has a power, and so far as they have a power, considering the offence of which you are convicted, so far they will consider, that you, not having any feeling for the happiness of others, are in a situation to receive the just resentment of the law. I shall proceed to pass on you the severest sentence that the law of the land will permit me to pass, lamenting that I have not power to pass one more severe than that I am now about to do. The sentence of the court is, that you be transported for seven years , to pass beyond the seas, to such place as his majesty, by the advice of his privy council, shall be pleased to declare and appoint.
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
256. MARY ROBINSON was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 4th of May , a pair of linen sheets, value 12s. two dimity petticoats, value 12s. two linen shifts, value 6s. nine pair of cotton stockings, value 6s. two callico petticoats, value 4s. three cotton bed gowns, value 6s. a diaper table cloth, value 6s. a linen pillow case, value 1s. a pair of dimity pockets, value 1s. the goods of Sarah Roberts , spinster , five linen shirts, value 30s. a linen shift, value 3s. two pair of linen sheets, value 1l. a marseilles petticoat, value 5s. and a diaper table cloth, value 5s. the goods of William Dillon .
I live at No. 30, Norton-street.
Q. Was the prisoner a servant of your's? - No, I don't know the prisoner.
Q. You lost some articles, in whose house were they lost? - From Mr. Johnson's house, where I lodge; I lodge at No. 30, Norton-street.
Q. Do you know Mr. William Dillon ? - No. The bundle of my linen was not taken from me, but from the girl that was taking them to wash, and going home. I left them pinned up in the dinning room, and the servant of the house gave them to the washerwoman's maid.
Q. Did you give all the articles in this indictment to the servant? - Yes, on the 4th of May, Monday, about eight o'clock in the evening, pinned up in a dimity coat. I went out, and told her, when the girl came for the linen, as
Q. Is the girl here that came for the linen? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. This girl was entrusted to get these things washed? - Yes.
Q. You discovered that she had lost them? - As I was coming home, I met the girl, and she told me.
Q. Did not you express a good deal of anger on that occasion? - I did.
Q. It was natural that you should; that is all that I wanted to know.
Q. What age are you? - Fifteen.
Q. What is your mother, a washerwoman? - No. it is my mistress.
Q. Where does she live? - In Great Portland-street No.109.
Q.What day did you go for the linen that was lost? - On Monday the 4th of May, about eight o'clock in the evening.
Q. Did you see Mrs. Roberts? - No, I see the servant, a woman servant.
Q. What did she give you? - I don't know, the articles that were in the bundle; they were pinned up in a dimity petticoat. The first bundle were Mr. Dillon's things.
Q. Did you call on Mr. Dillon before you called on Miss Roberts? - Yes.
Q. What did you have from Mr. Dillon's? do you know what they were? - No, they were tied up in a table cloth for me. When I was coming from Mr. Dillon's man met me, and asked me if I did not live with one Mrs. Johnson, that washed his linen for him? I told him, no. He then asked me, where I did live? I told him, with one Mrs. Roberts; and he asked me, where I had been? I told him, to Mr. Dillon's and then I went down Mary-le-bone-street, and I met the prisoner.
Q. Where did you come from? - Out of Francis-street, Tottenham-court-road. She asked me if I did not wash for Mr. Dillon? I told her, yes; and she said, she came from Mr. Dillon's cook, and she desired her to send me back directly.
Q. What was you to send back? - To go back myself to Mr. Dillon's cook. I told her I was going a little further, after another young lady's linen. She told me to make haste, and she would stop at the corner of Titchfield-street; and I went after this Miss Roberts's linen.
Q. You left her there? - Yes, I did.
Q. You found her there in the same place when you came back? - Yes, in the same place where she said she would stop. She told me, I had better not stop any longer, for she could carry home the linen as well as me. I asked her what was the master? She said, she did not know what was the matter. I delivered the bundles to the prisoner, one under one arm, and one under the other.
Q. You delivered both of them? - Yes, both of them, and I returned back to Mr. Dillon's again.
Q. And what became of the prisoner? - She went up Portland-street, to take the bundles home. She was by when I met the man, and she said then, when I said I lived at Mrs. Roberts's, it was No. 109, Great Portland-street.
Q. You went to Mr. Dillon's? - Yes, and when I came there, I asked if they had sent for me? They said, no. The servant asked what was the matter? I did not make any further answer, but went out of doors, and went home, to see if the woman had brought the linen home, and there had nobody been.
Q. Did you ever see any of your property since? - No further than I employed a constable to search the pawnbrokers, but they could not find any thing.
Q. Has any part ever been found at all? - No, there has not.
Q.How did you get at the prisoner
Q. How soon after? - It was about four o'clock when I went, and they said she was taken up about one, the next day but one. Wednesday.
Q. When you came there, did you see any bundles belonging to you? - No, nothing at all.
Q. Are you sure that is the same woman that took the property belonging to you? - Yes, I am certain of it.
Mr. Knowlys. Where was it you first see the person that afterwards got your bundle? - Between Ogle-street and Titchfield-street. I was going to this young lady's for her bundle.
Q. Where does the young lady live? - At. No. 13, Norton-street.
Q. That is not far off from there? - No, only a little way.
Q. Did you leave these bundles with her then? - No, I took the bundles with me.
Q. Did you leave Mr. Dillon's bundle with her then? - No, I did not.
Q. You never see this person before in your life? - No.
Q. You say, she had told you a story, that you was desired to go to Mr. Dillon's; that something amiss had happened? - Yes.
Q. You inquired of Mr. Dillon's whether they sent for you? - Yes.
Q. Did not you tell them at Mr. Dillon's what a strange fool they had made of you? - I did not say any thing further; but I was frightened; I was afraid the woman had robbed me then.
Q. This is just by Portland-street where you parted with the two bundles? - Not far.
Q. Hardly a hundred yards from your house, is it? - Rather better than that.
Q. It would not take you above three minutes to go from there to your own house? - No, I could not walk it in less than five minutes.
Q. She went towards your home? - She did.
Q. When you got to Miss Roberts's, was not she extremely angry? - She was.
Q. Did not she threaten to take you up? - She did.
Q. Did not she tell you that you must find them out? - She did.
Q. I take it, you was a good deal frightened, and thought you would come to harm on the occasion? - Yes, I did; I did not think I should come to any further hurt than my friends must pay for the things.
Q. You have never been able to find any thing? - No.
Q. Nor you did not see the person to whom you imagined you delivered them till three or four days after? - Not till the Wednesday.
Q. Did not you say before the justice, that you had delivered one of the bundles first, and that the person waited with that bundle till you brought the other? - No, I did not.
I am a servant to Mr. Dillon.
Q. Do you know Cummings? - Yes.
Q. Did you deliver any clothes to her at any time? - Yes, on the 4th of May, about half past seven in the evening, five linen shirts, a linen shift, a Marseilles petticoat, and a diaper table cloth.
Q. What happened after you had delivered them things? - She returned back in about half an hour, to know if I had sent for her back again; and I told her I did not. She went away. After that I went down to Marlborough-street, in order to tell what clothes I had given to this girl.
Q. Had she a little boy with her when she called for the linen? - Yes.
Q.What age may that boy be? - About six or seven.
Q. You are sure that the articles that you gave her where Mr. Dillon's property? - Yes; very sure.
Court to Commings. Are you sure that one of the bundles you gave to the prisoner was what you received at Mr. Dillon's? - Yes, I am sure of it.
The prisoner called two witnesses, who gave her a good character, said that she had been at service, but at present lived with her mother, a widow, who took in washing, and lived at Lambeth Marsh.
Q. Are you the mother of the girl? - Yes. I am a widow.
Q. Do you remember the day that your daughter was taken up? - I believe it was this day fortnight, on a Wednesday.
Q.Did you attend and hear any charge against her? - No, they would not admit me into the place.
Q. Where has your daughter lived? - She has lived with a gentleman in court three years, at Hoxton.
Q. Where has she been since? - With me, helping me, washing and ironing, a very good girl.
Q. Where was she the day that this charge is made? - She was with me till after three o'clock in the afternoon, then she went out and returned home before ten, as nigh as I can guess.
Q. Where did she go from you? - She went out at half past three, to spend an afternoon and evening.
Q. Did she go alone? - She went alone from me, I don't know who she might have with her afterwards.
Q. What time did she return? - About ten.
Q. Did she bring any thing home with her? - Nothing at all. I gave her sixpence when she went out, no more nor no less.
Q. Did she live with you from that time down to the time she was taken up, assisting you in your work? - Yes, she did.
Q. What age is the girl? - Fifteen, the 25th of last March.
GUILTY . (Aged 15.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
257. MARY SMITH was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 13th of May , a cotton gown, value 6s. nine cotton shawls, value 2s. two cotton bed gowns, value 2s. a black silk bonnet, value 6d. a woollen apron, value 6d. a leather purse, value 1d. and ten-pence in money , the goods and money of Charles Paston .
Mrs. PASTON sworn.
Q. Are you the wife of Charles Paston? - Yes.
Q. Where is your husband? - In the Westminster Militia .
Q. Did you lose a cotton gown at any time, and the articles in this indictment? - Yes.
Q. Are you a lodger, or have you a house? - I am a lodger. On Wednesday the 13th of May, Mary Smith came into my room between eight and nine in the morning, and told me she was going to
Q. Did you miss your things when you came back? - Yes. I returned back again for my cloak, because it began to rain, and when I returned for my cloak, I found my door broke open.
Q. About one was this? - Yes.
Q.What door do you mean, the door of your lodgings? - Yes.
Q.Was it padlocked, or how? - Not padlocked, locked inside.
Q. Was it forced out of the staple? - Yes, and the staple was found in the room.
Q. Have you ever seen any of your things again? - Yes; I see my long cotton gown, in the Broad Way, hang up to sell, and two shawls.
Q.At whose house was this? - Mrs. Smith's.
Q. What business does she follow? - Keeps a sale shop.
Q. How soon was that after you missed them? - It was the next day.
Q. Have you seen any of your things besides these? - Yes, my two bed gowns, they were brought to me by a person that had them when she was taken up before the magistrate, and my bonnet she had on her head, and a handkerchief on her neck.
Prisoner. The handkerchief she tore off my neck was my own property.
I live in the Broad Way, Westminster.
Q.Look at the prisoner, do you know her? - Yes, she sold that property in my shop.
Q. Did you ever see her more than that once? - Not till I see her at the office.
Q. What did she sell you? - A gown and two shawls.
Q.What did you give for them? - Seven and sixpence.
Q. Have you kept them from that time to this? - Yes.
Q.Did she give you any account of them? - She told me she was come from abroad, and was very much distressed for a little money.
Q. Have you any doubt about her person? - None in the least, I have got the property here.
I am a single woman, I went to nurse my sister, my sister lays in, and this woman came and sold us three bedgowns, two of which I believe belong to the prosecutrix, and one I believe to the prisoner.
Q. What is your sister? - She keeps a clothes shop, in York street, her name is Bartlett, she lays in at present.
Q. Were you present when they were sold? - Yes.
Q. Had you ever seen the prisoner before that? - No.
Q. Are you perfectly sure that is the woman? - Yes, I am certain that is the woman.
Q.Have you kept them from that time to this? - Yes, I have.(Produced.)
I am a constable belonging to the police office, Queen-square. On Wednesday, the 13th of May, I heard that a person had committed a robbery, and had gone down the stable yard; I went down the stable yard, and found the prisoner at the bar in custody of Mary Paston; she charged her with robbing her of several things, and
Prisoner. That handkerchief that that gentleman tore off my neck, and which I gave to the constable afterwards, was my own property.
Q. To Mary Smith. What day was it she sold you these things? - The 13th of May.
Q. To Jane Nash. What day did she sell them to you? - The 13th of May.
Prosecutrix. They are all my things.
GUILTY . (Aged 22)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I am servant to Alexander Johnson , linen draper , No. 31, Oxford-street . The 21st of April, between eight and nine in the evening, Margaret Stocker and another woman came into the shop to buy a remnant; I shewed them some remnents on the counter; I went back to fetch some more, and Margaret Stocker took one off the counter.
Q. How far did you go to fetch some more? - Just turned myself round; I see her take it off.
Q. What did she take off? - A piece of printed cotton, it was folded up in a small fold. A woman came up to the door, and called one of them out.
Q.What did she do with this printed cotton when she took it up? - Put it under her apron.
Q.Was that before you made this discovery or after? - After. The they were going out at the door; I jumped over the counter and pulled her back again; then I immediately asked her for the print, and there were two pieces dropped on the ground from between them; but I only see her take one. One piece dropped from under her apron; the other I did not see drop.
Q. Were they printed cottons, both of the same pattern or different patterns? - Different patterns. The property is at home; Mr. Johnson would not let me bring it, he said the trial would not come on this afternoon.
Q. It was a cotton you are sure? - Yes.
Q. Had you any cottons in that house that did not belong to your master? - No.
Q. You are sure that belonged to your master? - I am certain it did.
Q. Had you sold her any at this time? - No.
Q.Nor to the other woman? - No, to neither of them.
Q. What might be the value of that piece that she dropped from her apron? - Five shillings.
Q. Was there any other people in the shop besides yourself? - Yes, there was another young man at the end of the counter, but he did not see any thing of it.
Prisoner. I went in with this woman for a yard of stuff to make a child a bed gown, and somebody called to the other woman, and she was going out; I never offered to stir from the place, and he catched hold of her, and the print dropped
Court to Prosecutor. Did you accuse the other woman of it? - I did not; she was taken to the watch-house.
Q. Was she taken to the magistrate's the next morning? - Yes, she was.
Q. The magistrate discharged the other woman? - Yes, he did.
GUILTY . (Aged 16.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
259. MARY COX was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 7th of May , a child's muslin frock, value 1s. three childs linen caps, value 9d. three cotton stockings, value 6d. two yards of lace edging, value 3d. a woman's cotton gown, value 4s. and three yards of silk ribbon, value 3d. the goods of William Pussord .
Q. Did you lose the things in the indictment? - Yes, I did. They were taken from the prisoner in the kitchen; she was a servant; she came the 27th of April; she refused to do her work, and her mistress told her she might go about her business; and she went up stairs and packed up her things, and when she came down we observed she looked very think about the waist, but did not suspect the robbery at that time; she was fondling over the child to take her leave of it, she took up her apron to wipe her eyes, and Mrs. Pussord discovered the gown through her pocket holes.
Q.Is your wife here? - She is not, I was present the whole time. It was round her waist under her gown, this led to the discovery of the other things, we made her turn her pocket out, there was some tristing things there not mentioned in the indictment, they turned her apron up, where she had concealed two of the stockings I believe.
Q. Did you find about her person all the articles in the indictment? - The whole of them. I delivered them to the officer.
Q. Did you deliver them yourself? - No, I believe it was my wife delivered them into his hands.
Q. Do you know the things again? - Yes, I do.
Q. You had not discharged her? - No, I believe Mrs. Pussord would have continued her, if she had not found these things.
Q. Is she a single woman? - I believe she is.
I am a hatter; I was at Mr. Pussord's the same afternoon, and heard that this girl was detected. I went into the kitchen and see her take from her bosom a child's frock and one stocking, I believe with another article or two, which I cannot recollect what they were, she was then taken up stairs to be searched, I then went home.
Q.What was done with this child's frock? - Mr. Pussord had it.
I am an officer at Hackney, I produce the things delivered by Mrs. Pussord to me. I know nothing of the transaction.
Q. You have kept them to this time? - Yes, I have.
Q. Were they delivered to you the same day the girl was examined? - Yes, I was sent for directly after she was examined.
Prisoner. My master used me very ill at the time that he sent for the constable to take me up, and so did my mistress; and when I came here to the prison, I had the black and blue in my arms where he pinched me, and threw me down, and he served another poor girl the same before, that old cotton gown my mistress said that she would give it me, and how it came in my box I don't know. I told her the work was too hard for me without she could get a woman to help me to clean the house, as the house had been white washed, and painted all over.
Prosecutor. She had no box.
Q. How much money was due to her at this time? - Three Shillings.
Q. She says she complained the work was too much for her? - Not a word of that kind.
Q. You said that she should not do her work? - I believe that was with being tipsey, she was very tipsey at that time.
GUILTY . (Aged 22.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Q.Are you a housekeeper or a lodger? - A housekeeper.
Q. Did you lose any articles in this indictment? - Yes; they were stole from me on Friday evening the first of this month, they were taken from behind my counter.
Q.What business do you follow? - A pawnbroker .
Q. Did you see them youself taken from behind the counter? - No.
Q. Have you people here that did? - No.
Q. Have you ever seen the things since you missed them? - Yes, in half or three quarters of an hour after I missed them at Mr. Kembler's, another pawnbroker, in Chelsea.
Q. You knew them to be your's? - Yes.
Q. Do you bring them here? - Mr. Kemble has brought them.
Q. Why do you charge the prisoner with taking these things? - He came to transact business on the first of this month in the evening, he exchanged one pledge, and pledged another for money; after he had done that he left the shop, but he was in the shop some time before this was done.
Q. How soon did you miss your things after he was gone? - Almost instantly in one minute or less. I did not miss them things so soon, but I had reason for thinking that something was gone, and it took me some time to examine my goods before I could know what was gone.
Q. I see there is a cloth coat pawned by Benedict Dalton, and another by Alexander Macklane, were they taken away at the same time? - They were.
Mr. Knapp. You are a pawnbroker? - Yes.
Q.What is the prisoner? - He deals in clothes.
Q.Where does he live? - In White Lion-street, about three or four, five or six houses length from where I live.
Q. Did you know him before? - I have known him, I believe, about nine or ten months.
Q. Has he any other business besides that of an old clothes man? - I do not recollect any other business that he has ever followed.
Q. Has he followed no other profession? - Not that I know of; he has been a soldier but not since I knew him.
Q. Don't you know that he has been on the Continent; serving under the Duke of York? - I always knew that.
Q. How far did Mr. Kemble, the other pawnbroker, live from you? - About six or seven hundred yards.
Q. So that this prisoner is charged with stealing these coats, and taking them to another pawnbroker about six hundred yards from you? - Yes.
Q.You say you have been acquainted with him about nine or ten months? - I have.
Q. What business have you had with him? - Only taking in pledges, and bargaining in that way.
Q. Have the articles most of them been clothes? - Always clothes.
Q. You told me just now that you did not know what was missing till you examined the book? - I did not.
Q. How long before had you taken account of your stock? - I don't understand the question.
Q. How long before that time that you did examine it had you taken your stock? - Not for a month before I dare say.
Q. Then not taking your stock for a month before, and having frequent dealing with him in these fort of articles, will you take on yourself to say that these clothes had not gone out of your shop? - No, never.
Q. Had you never any quarrel with him? - No otherwise than he used to come to the shop and put all into confusion on purpose to take the advantage of me, and I begged of him not to come asking for money.
Q. Now, this good man, this prisoner at the bar, he lived in the same parish about six doors from you, and he pawned the things about six hundred yards from you, your stock you had not taken for above a month before, and you had frequent dealings with him in the same article? - Yes.
BENEDICT DALTON sworn.
Q. Did you ever pawn any thing with Mr. Murray? - No, the woman did, that I lived with, for me.
Q. Was it a coat for four shillings? - Yes.
Q. Should you know that coat again? - Yes.
Mr. Knapp. You did not pawn it? - No, the woman that I lived with pawned it; I gave her liberty to pawn it, about a month ago, I believe, now.
Q. What is your husband's name? - Alexander.
Q. Did you pawn for your husband a striped coat at any time with Mr. Murray? - Yes.
Q.Should you know it again if you was to see it? - Yes.
Q.When was it you pawned it? - I have got the ticket of it.
Q. What date is it? - Twenty eighth of April.
Mr. Knapp. You had been at Mr. Murray's often before? - Yes, I have been there before.
Q. It is a pawnbroker's shop of pretty good resort? - I have gone there when I went to pledge any thing.
Q. Is it a pawnbroker's shop for clothes principally? - Yes, it is.
Mrs. Smith. I was the person that pawned the blue coat. I pawned it for Mr. Dalton.
Q. Should you know it again if you was to see it? - Yes; it was the 16th of April.
JAMES KEMBLE sworn.
I am a pawnbroker at Chelsea.
Q. Did the prisoner ever pawn any thing with you? - Yes; these two coats which I have here, one is a striped elastic cloth, the other is a blue cloth.
Q.What day were they pawned with you? - On the evening of the first of May, about nine o'clock.
Q. Have you kept them from that time to this? - I left them last night at a house instead of taking them home from Chelsea, but I know them, they are the same.
Mr. Knapp. You live at Chelsea too? - Yes.
Q. How far from the prosecutor, Mr. Murray's? - Not more than a hundred yards, just round the corner.
Q. Do you know the prisoner? - Yes, I knew him some time.
Q. You know he was one of the guards returned from the Continent? - Yes.
Q. You know likewise that he set up an old clothes shop since he returned.
Q. Do you know of any dealings that he has had with the prosecutor at all? - No, I did not; he has said at different times, when he has been in my shop, that he has done business with Mr. Murray.
Q.Had he any dealings with you? - Yes, he had.
Q. He lived in the neighbourhood himself? - Yes, he did.
Q.He had not gone out of the neighbourhood to pawn these articles with you, he had only gone a hundred yards? - I cannot say as to exact distance. It is but a very short distance.
Q. He had not gone out of the parish so as you could not find him. How often does a pawnbroker take his stock? - Generally once a year.
Q. I would ask you then if it is possible that if you only take your stock during one month, or only one year, is it possible for a man to know when a thing is taken?
Court. Will you ask that when this is missed five minutes after the prisoner has gone out of the shop?
I am an officer of the parish of St. Luke's, Chelsea. Mr. Murray made application to me, and told me that he had lost one or two coats out of the shop, and as such that he had been to one or two pawnbrokers, and I went and apprehended the prisoner immediately, he seemed very angry that I apprehended him as I was a neighbour; he said if I had informed him of it, he would have gone and made it up with the prosecutor.
Q. Where did you apprehend him? - In his own house.
Q. Why the prosecutor, the prisoner, and Mr. Kemble, are all neighbours? - They are all four neighbours.
Q. And there you found him at home? - I did.
Q. You knew the prisoner before? - Perfectly.
Q. You knew he had been a soldier, and been on the Continent? - Yes. He quartered at my house.
Q.Now, what has been his character, you knowing him? - I cannot say much to that, I have had him for some little misdemeanor before.
Prosecutor. I can swear fasely to the coats.
Q. Had they any tickets on when they were taken away? - They had; the tickets have been taken off.
Mr. Knapp. You can safely swear to them coats? - I can.
Q. Can you swear to every coat that is pawned with you? - I cannot.
Q. How long had these coats been pawned with you? - These were pawned the second of April.
Q. Do you know them particularly yourself, could you swear to them any where? - I don't know that I could, if I was to see them promiscuously in a strange place.
Smith. This is the coat I pawned, the blue coat, there is a hole under the left arm, the buttons are yellow, and a little grazed.
Mr. Knapp. You mean to swear to this coat by the buttons being yellow, there is nothing particular in these buttons, and the other things that you swear to is the hole under the arm, because that is very particular. Why it has the appearance of a coat that has been worn? - Yes.
Dalton. This is my coat, I know it by the hole under the arm, and the yellow buttons.
Mr. Knapp. Had you ever a blue coat before? - No, never in my life.
Q.But you have seen many a blue coat before with yellow buttons? - I have nothing further to say against the prisoner, only that is my property.
Macklane. This is my husband's coat, I can swear to it any where, here are six buttons on the outside of the sleeve, and it is what they call a slash sleeve; and I was going to clean the buttons, to see if the buttons would clean, and here is one of the buttons brighter than the others.
Q. Have you any doubt about it? - No, it is my husband's coat.
Mr. Knapp. Is your husband here? - No.
Q. Do you know this by the flash sleeve? - Yes, it is a very remarkable one.
Q. And one of the buttons is brighter? - Yes, and the pockets want mending.
Q. That is an additional circumstance by which you are enabled to swear to it? - Yes.
Prisoner. If you look at that gentleman's duplicate, it is pawned in the name of a black coat. That night I wanted some money, and I took my own coat into Mr. Murray's, and asked him to let me have some money? He said, he had no money. Says I, then I must go to Mr. Kemble; and I took my two coats, and the rug off my bed, and pawned them at Mr. Kemble's.
The prisoner called two witnesses to his character, and also Mr. Kemble, who said, he never knew any thing bad of him, but he had heard things.
GUILTY . (Aged 22.)
Two years in the House of Correction , and fined 1s .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury, before Mr. RECORDER.
261. EDWARD WOOLANDS was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 28th of April , two silver table spoons, value 1l. 1s. a silver pap spoon, value 5s. seven silver tea spoons, value 10s. 6d, a silver handled cork screw, value 2s. a a silver pencil case, value 6d. a pair of silver tea tongs, value 5s. a plated tea caddy spoon, value 6d. a block tin tea pot, value 2s. a pair of plated candlesticks, value 10s. the goods of SarahCharles Angeboid .
Q. In whose house? - Charles Angeboid's.
Q. Did you lodge there in April last? - Yes.
Q. Where did you miss these articles from? - The back parlour. My servant see them in the morning; as for their going, I cannot say any thing of; the morning of the 28th of April.
Q. What time in the course of the day were you told of it? - About half after seven in the morning my servant came into my bed room, and told me of it.
Q. Do you live with Mrs. Wood? - Yes.
Q. Did you live with her in April? - Yes.
Q. A servant there? - Yes.
Q. At Mr. Angeboid's? - Yes.
Q. Tell us what you observed on the 28th of April respecting these things? - About half after seven in the morning, somebody rang at the bell When I came to the door, there was nobody there. I came in, and went down stairs again; and before I had been in five minutes, I went down stairs to get some wood to light the fire) and I thought I heard a noise at the slab, a gingling of glass, on the top of the kitchin stairs, in the parlour; and as I went up stairs, I heard more noise; and as I was returning up the stairs, I see a man run from the corner of the slab.
Q. Where was the slab? - At the parlour door, just on the top of the kitchen stairs, inside of the parlour.
Q. And you could see the slab from the stairs? - Yes, while I was on the stairs. He ran, and I ran after him, and cried out, stop thief.
Q. Did he run towards the door? - Yes.
Q. Was the door open? - Yes, it is always left open; there is a hatch shuts in the middle.
Q. What is Mr. Angeboid? - He fells lozenges.
Q. Had the person you see gone out of doors into the street? - Yes. I see him turn the corner of Newport-street, and I kept crying, stop thief; and three or four people attacked him, and took him, and as soon as they took him, he dropped the things. I see him drop them.
Q.Was he ever out of your sight? - Yes, in turning the end of the street he was out of my sight.
Q. How long after he had turned was it before you saw him again? - In an instant.
Q. The spoons dropped when they apprehended him? - Yes.
Q. Did you take them? - Yes.
Q. Have you got them here? - Yes.
Q. What did you do with them? - I took them in my apron, into my mistress's bed chamber.
Q. And carried them to your mistress? - Yes; I put them on the table.
Q. When you see the man come out of the parlour, could you see his person? - Yes.
Q. And did you know him again when you see him in the street? - O yes.
Q. Look at the prisoner at the bar, is that the man? - Yes, that is the man.
Q. You are sure it is the man? - Yes.
Q. You say he never was out of your sight above an instant? - No; he had a dark brown coat on, a striped waistcoat, and a white apron.
Q. What time in the morning was it? - Half past seven.
Mr. Wentworth. You say Mr. Angeboid sells lozenges? - Yes.
Q.Had you ever seen the person before? - No, never.
Q. The staircase that you come up from the kitchen below is winding, is it not? - Yes.
Q. You observed somebody passing? - Yes.
Q.Were you near the top of the staircase when you see him, or nearer the bottom? - Near the bottom.
Q.Then you could see the slab? - I could see it perfectly well.
Q.The parlour turns on the right hand after you got up on the staincase? - Yes.
Q.And the slab on the left hand in the parlour? - Yes; it is close to the parlour door.
Q. The person, you say, however, passed very suddenly from the parlour to the passage door? - Yes.
Q. You see him in the act of running, and in the situation you was in, his back was towards you? - It was.
Q. You will not undertake to say that you had opportunity enough to discover his face? - No.
Q. When he had got out of the passage you lost sight of him? - Yes.
Q. What distance is the corner of Newport-street from the passage door, where you lost sight of him? - About four doors.
Q. Then this house is the upper part of St. Martin's-lane, is it? - Yes.
Q. When you got from the corner of Newport-street, what distance had he got in Newport-street? - About the middle?
Q. What distance might that be? - About six, or seven, or eight houses.
Q. When the people came up to him, you did not see him drop the articles? - Yes.
Q. Pray, when had you seen then before? - About ten minutes before, when I went into the parlour; I am certain of that.
Jury. Was the inner door open, the parlour door? - Yes.
Q.Was the flnall hatch shut or open? - Shut.
Q.Does the hatch open outward or inward? - Inward.
Q. Did you see him open it? - No; I don't know how he opened it.
Q. I mean when he went out? - It was open when he went out; he left it open.
Q.When you went up, on somebody ringing, nobody was there, then you opened the door? - Yes; I shut the batch, and left the street door open.
Coming along Newport-street, on the 28th of April, between the hours of seven and eight, I heard the cry of, stop thief! and the prisoner running with the handkerchief in his hand, and two young men were rather closer to him than met, by about two yards, and they catched hold of him, and in that instant they catched hold of him, he dropped the handkerchief, and the property flew out on the stones.
Q. What was the property? - I cannot say; and I assisted them, by taking hold of the prisoner, and conducted him to the house from whence he came; No. 78, in St. Martin's-lane.
Q. That is Mr. Angeboid's? - Yes.
Q. Who picked up the property? - I cannot answer for that; I left the property there, and conducted the man away.
Mr. Wentworth. When you first discovered the prisoner, how was he going? - He was running as fast as possibly he could.
JAMES WHITEMAN sworn.
On the 28th of April I was passing up St. Martin's lane, and heard the cry of stop thief. I pursued, and saw the pri
Q.You are sure it was the prisoner at the bar from whom the property dropped? - I cannot pretend to say that; as he ran, he had the property before him.
I produce the things; I received them in St. Martin's watch-house, from the parties that stopped the prisoner.
Q. Did you receive the property from the prosequtrix? - Yes; I went to the house.
Q.What did you receive at Mr. Angeboid's? - I'late.
Q.Are these the things that you received? - Yes, there are the articies.
Q.To Bottereili. Look at those things, and see if they are the things that you took up, and carried to your mistress? - Yes, they are.
Q.Whose property are these? - Mrs. Wood's.
Q. To Hinde. You had these things from Farrel, you have kept them ever since? - Yes.
Prosecutrix. Those are the things that were lost.
Q. Do you know the value of them? - That I cannot say; suppose we say a guinea.
Q.Then you will not venture to swear that they are worth more than a guinea? - No.
Prisoner. I work with my father; I was going up that morning to Greek-street, Soho, to the tool-maker's, to buy some planes. I was passing by this door; there came a man, he ran out of the door; I went to stop the man, and could not. He dropped the handkerchief, and I catched up the handkerchief, and ran after the man, and they pursued me.
Q. You stopped the man with the handkerchief? - I did not stop him.
Q. To Prince. When you stopped the prisoner did you say any thing to him? - No. There was a man had hold of the prisoner before me.
I was going along Newport-street that morning, and I heard the cry of stop thief, and I immediately lifted up my head, and I see the man coming running with a handkerchief in his hand, running a great pace. He tried to pass by me, and I made an attempt to stop him; I caught him in my arms. As soon as I had hold of him, he dropped the plate on the flag stones, and when he dropped it, the handkerchief fled open, and I saw the girl gather the plate up, and put it into her apron.
Q. Did he say any thing? - He said to me, pray, sir, let me go, I have done nothing.
Q. Did he say any thing else? - No. The prisoner called three witnesses who gave him a good character, said that he worked with his father, who was a carpenter.
Whiteman. By your lordship's permission, I will say one word. When the prisoner was brought to Bow-street, it was inquired of the officers if any of them knew him; and they said they did not, none of them.
GUILTY . (Aged 21.)
Of stealing to the value of 39s.
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
JAMES SMITH was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 12th of May , two deal boards, value 2s. the goods of John Pitcher .
Q. You are not in business together? - No.
Q.Where does your brother live? - No. 38, King-street, Golden-square.
Q.Were these boards stolen from his premises? - From North-place, Gray's-inn-lane ; they were taken the 12th of May, Tuesday; I never see the prisoner till he was detected with the boards; it is three houses that are building new; my brother's name is on them.
Q. When had you last seen them at these houses? - I cannot rightly say, I had not been at work there for some time.
Q. Had you seen them within a week? - No.
Q. You cannot say that you had seen them there? - No, only from the name; I never see the prisoner till he was taken to Bow-street, at Bow-street I see him; I see my brother's boards in Elm-street, Gray's-inn-lane.
Q. Are the boards here? - Yes, they are, the constable had them brought here.
I am a patrol of Bow-street; I saw the prisoner on the morning of the 12th of May, on Mount-pleasant, with the boards against a waggon.
Q.Whereabouts is Mount-pleasant? - Just at the end of Elm-street, the lower end of Gray's-inn-lane. He took two of the boards and laid them by the side of the fence, and left a child to mind them; I see him take them from the side of a waggon, and laid them down, and left his child to mind them, and then took the other two to carry home; I asked him where he was going? he said he was going down to the lower end of Warner-street; then I insisted on his bringing the boards back to the place where he had taken them from, which he did, he brought them back to the buildings in North-place.
Q. Was it from there that you see him take them? - No, he said he took them from there himself.
Q. How far is this from the place where you found him? - It may be as far as from the end of Newgate-street, of somewhere thereabouts. Then I took the boards to my own house afterwards, and made an inquiry for an owner for them, and I found that they belonged to Mr. Pitcher, he came and owned them in my yard, there is the name in full length, in two places on each board.
Pitcher. They are scaffolding boards, deal; I have no doubt about them in the least.
Q. Why is not your brother here? - He thought it was not necessary; as I knew the boards as well as he.
Q. Did you nois them? - No, we cannot, we have so many.
Prisoner. I was taking a walk one morning, and I see two or three old boards lay down, and being a poor man who had served my King and country, I thought it no harm to pick these boards up to light a fire, to make the kettle boil, I instantly picked them up, I thought they were bits of old wood; this gentleman, Mr. Kirby knew me when my uncle was sheriff, Mr. Baker, four years ago; and they brought me away last night suddenly from Clerkenwell; I have some friends to send for to give me a character.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
WILLIAM CLARKE was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 29th of April , five painted paper patterns for floor cloths, value 2s. 6d. thirty three pieces of canvas, containing eighty five yards, value 4l. a yard of painted floor cloth, value 3s. three quarters of a yard of other painted floor cloth, value 2s. three quarters of a yard of ditto, value 2s nine hair brashes with wooden-handles, value 10s. twenty-eight pounds of red lead, value 10s. and three pounds weight of paint, called vegetable green, value 7s. the goods of William George Bates , and Eliza Barnes , widow .
Q. I believe you are floor cloth manufacturers ? - Yes, we are.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes. I have been in that concern three years, and he has been my servant ever since, and was before I was in the concern. Between the hours of nine and ten, on the 29th of April, I went down to the manufactory to look after my business, he was then printing a piece of green cloth, which they call India mat, I told him the demands for goods was such that we wished to finish every thing as fast as we could, that there was a piece of cloth that had been damaged in the drawing up after the printing, some months before, and I wished him to mend it as he was using this colour; I apprehended by this reply that he misunderstood me, and he said what piece of cloth, the Italian bat? which was another piece of green cloth; I said no, what is that gone? which on inquiry in the manufactory we found it was gone, and a piece of green cloth also. Having lost goods before, I said we must have got a thief within the premises, on inquiry among the men none knew any thing of it, in consequence of which I went up to the house to Mrs. Barnes, I mentioned the circumstance of our loss, and we thought it advisable then to have a search warrant. I went to the Police office and got a search warrant.
Q.Are those premises out of the city? - They are. I asked for a warrant to search every man's house on which the magistrate told me. -
Q.Did you go with a search warrant to the house of the prisoner at the bar? - I did.
Q. Who went with you? - Mr. Taplin. He keeps a house and lets it out in lodgings, in Buckle-street, Clerkenwell.
Q. How far is that from your premises? - It may be half a mile. On entering the house I see Mrs. Clarke, she appeared very much discomposed.
Q. Did you acquaint her with the nature of your business? - I mentioned it to her. I went into the back yard with Mr. Taplin, seeing her come out of the back yard, and there I saw a sheet with a quantity of unwrought cloth tied up in it; unwrought floor cloth. We call it canvas.
Q. What quantity was it altogether? - About eighty square yards.
Q. How many pieces were there? - I believe there may be thirty or upwards. I told Mr. Taplin these were not the things that I expected to find, I proceeded to the end of the yard, and in the conveniency at the end of the yard, I see a man of the name of Hart. He makes baskets for me, I supply the government with stores.
Q. Did you know whether Hart was acquainted with the prisoner before? - Yes, I have seen him with the prisoner in the factory. Mr. Taplin thought it
Q. Do you know who the press belonged to? - It was Mr. Clarke's. I left the matter to Mr. Taplin to do as he thought proper.
Q. Did you find any thing besides these patterns? - I left Mr. Taplin to take them out, there were more things.
Q. After you got these things, did you apprehend the prisoner; I waited some time, and the prisoner not coming home at his usual time to dinner, I went to go home, and I met the prisoner in Haydon-square. On his return home, I shook my head and said, I was very sorry for what had taken place.
Q. Did he make any answer to the expression? - He spoke, but in such a low tone, I could not understand him; he then went to his sister's in the same street, and there he waited till I believe Mr. Taplin went and took him, he did not go home. When he came into the house we shewed him the things that were there, and he confessed they were ours.
Q. What he came home afterwards? - Yes, he did.
Q. When did he get to his own house? - It may be a quarter after one.
Q. How long after you see him going towards his sister's? - It might be within the space of half an hour.
Q.First of all, did you, or Taplin in your presence, before he said any thing, promise it would be better for him if he gave you an account of it? - No, when he see these goods, he confessed these goods were ours. These goods in the indictment.
Q. What did he say? - I said I had found out the thief at last, or something at least to that purpose. I said these are not the things that I expected to find, what have you done with the manufactured goods? he said he knew nothing of them; I then promised him, provided he would confess, that I would not go on with the prosecution, then he did confess.
Q. What is the value of them, are they worth ten or twenty shillings? - Yes, they are.
Const. You, I think, have told us that you sent the constable for him? - I went with the constable.
Q. And that after you met him going towards home? - I did.
Q.What, he knew the constable and you were there? - No, he did not know from us. I suppose there were repeated intimations from his own friends.
Q. Then in consequence of these messages you apprehended he was coming? - I did.
Q. The value of the things I see is trifling? - I laid them at twenty shillings the whole. I could not buy them for that money, they cost me more than five guineas and a half.
Q. That you swear? - Yes, they did.
Q. I recollect you told my lord what you said to him, to induce him to confess the property, what did you say? - I did not say any thing to him with respect to these things that are in the indictment.
Q. At the time the promise was made were not the things laying before you? - They were.
Q. Were not you wanting to know the particulars of these things? - No, it was the manufactured goods.
Q. Then he confessed voluntarily? -He did.
Q. This man has been very long in the business? - He has.
Q. Three years with you, three years with the last lady, and upwards of twenty years with your predecessor? - He has been I believe twenty years in that manufactory He was three years with me, and three years with Mrs. Barnes, who took that manufactory of Mr. Everett.
Q. Then he has been six or seven years and twenty years? - Yes, I believe he has.
Q. He served seven years there? - He did.
Q. I believe he behaved so well that Mr. Everett left him a legacy? - I cannot say I know any thing about it.
Q. Are these the sort of things that you sell in that present state? - No, except the remnants; our property was damaged through inattention, these pieces instead of mending them as he ought to do, he took his knife and cut them in two, and made remnants of them.
Q. You was a stranger to the floor cloth manufactory? - I was a stranger to that, I am a painter by business
Q. He was a capable person for the business in your house? - He was.
Q.Has he ever instructed any other to go on with the business? - Not with the printing part.
Q. Is there not some sort of secret or particular skill in doing it? - None, it requires practice, I have attempted it myself since he was gone.
Q. Looking at these things which are contained in the indictment, can you tell us whether they are your property? - I do not swear to any thing but the paper patterns.
Q.Will you swear to the paper patterns? - Yes, I will
Q. Are these the things which the prisoner used to have in his custody? - No, never.
Q.Then it was not usual for him to take them home for any purpose? - Not by our knowledge of it.
Q. It was not in the course of business to do it? - No.
Q. I believe you are a constable? - Yes.
Q. Did you attend Mr. Bates on this search warrant? - Yes, I did, to Buckle-street.
Q. Tell us what you found there? - A quantity of raw cloth. By entering of Mr. Clarke's house, with Mr. Bates, I met Mrs. Clarke in the passage, seemingly coming from the back yard of the house. Mrs. Clarke seeing Mr. Bates, she ran up stairs; I called to Mrs. Clarke, and told her I had a search warrant for the house. I desired Mr. Bates to go backwards. By opening the door going into the back yard, there laid a large bundle of canvas, tied up in a sheet, in the back yard, just without the door. I and Mr. Bates went further back to the privy, Mr. Bates see one there whom he knew, George Hart. I asked him if he knew any thing of that property that was there? We proceeded then up stairs, and by searching up in the garret, we found some paper parcels, which Mr. Bates took out himself, and some other canvas, up stairs. (They are all here.) There was one piece of canvas found in the parlour, where Mrs. Clarke was sitting, and some paint in the cellar, a pot of red paint, (it is here.) There was a great quantity of paint, but it was very old, and took no notice of. The prisoner's sister came up to Mr. Clarke's house; as soon as she came in doors she was very much alarmed, very much frightened.
Q. In consequence of her coming, what did you do? - I went back with her, and found him there, and took him back to his own house, where Mr. Bates was, and Mrs. Barnes; then I heard Mr. Battes make him a promise.
Q. Where were those things that were found in the house? - Those things that were found were in the parlour.
Q.Where was the prisoner? - In the parlour in the sight of these things.
Q. Do you recollect any thing passing before Mr. Bates made him any promise? - No, I do not recollect what words he used when he first came into the room.
Q. Then you did not hear any thing before a promise was passed? - No; Mr. Bates told him, that the goods that he had searched after he had not found; that if he would produce those goods, he would look over these things, which, he had no doubt, were his property. That is all know of this case.
Q.What did he mean by looking over? - Meaning to forgive him; I understood as much.
Mr. Wentworth. Do you recollect Mrs. Clarke sending for her husband? - I asked Mrs. Clarke if she had sent for her husband? She said, yes; but Mr. Clarke did not come.
Q. How soon after you went in did she send for her husband? - I cannot be certain; I went into the house about twelve, and I saw him about a quarter past one.
Q. He came? - He did not come to his own house.
Q. He came into the same street? - He did, to his sister.
Q. Then he did not come to his own house, but he called at his sister's till you fetched him away? - Yes.
GEORGE HART sworn.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.
Q. How long have you been acquainted with him? - I suppose I have known him these twenty years,
Q. I want to know what you know of these goods that were found at the time you were in Clarke's house? - I happened to call that very day promiscuously in the warehouse. Mr. Clarke gave me a key, and desired me to carry this key home to his house, that there were some old things there that he wanted moved out of the way. He said, there was a disturbance in the work shop, and his master might have some suspicion of some things that he had got at his house.
Q.What did you do with the key? - I carried it to his wife.
Q.What was she to do with it? - To remove some things out from up stairs, and carry them to his sister's.
Q. Why were they to be carried to his sister's? - I don't know; he gave me no reason at all.
Q. You said, some little while ago, that his master might have some suspicion? - It was about the things at home, because some things had been missed.
Q. You said something about some old things at home? - He did; he thought his master might have some suspicion, as they were things missed.
Q. Did you go with the key to the wife in consequence of that? - I did.
Q. Did she get any things with this key? - She got the things out of the press, I believe, I know she did, because I see her.
Q.What did she get out of this press? - A good many things; I did not count them. I heard them call them raw cloth. I believe, to the best of my knowledge, them are some of the things, but I cannot particularly swear to them.
Q. What did you do with them after they were produced by the wife? - I did nothing with them; the things were bundled down stairs; I did not carry them down stairs, the woman pushed them down.
Q. Where were they conveyed to? - The things were in the yard, or the passage, I don't know which, because I went back yard. I called at the sister's, to know where Mr. Clarke lived; I had not been there above three times in my
Q. What was done with the things? - They were left there, tied up in a sheet.
Q. Who did that? - The woman did it.
Q. Did you help her to do it? - No, I see her do it.
Q. How long had they been packed up before the officer came? - They might be packed up five minutes.
Q. What past when the constable and Mr. Bates came? - When Mr. Bates came, he came backwards, and see me there; so the officer said, he should detain me till Mr. Clarke came; says he, you have brought these things out of Mr. Bates's warehouse? - I said I never brought any thing out of Mr. Bates's warehouse, except the dirt under my seet.
Q. You were carried before the justice? - No, I went to the justice, but I was not asked a question there.(The things produced.)
Bates. These patterns are ours; no person in the world has the patterns besides ourselves; the prisoner printed them in the warehouse himself.
Q. Do you swear to the floor cloth? - I do not; but these are not in a saleable state; It could never have been sold.
Q. Do you then believe, without undertaking to swear pointly, that they are your property? - Yes, I have reason to believe so.
Q. Is that canvas the same as you use? - It is.
Q. Is he empowered to take home canvas? - On no account whatever.
Q. With respect to the red lead, that has no mark by which you can swear to it? - No; I am very tenacious what I swear to.
Mr. Const. I believe you have twenty times said, that you swear to nothing, but the paper patterns, what value do you put on them? - At the Police office I put them at a shilling.
Q. You say they were of his own striking? - They were.
Q. Is it unlikely for a man who strikes a pattern of his own making, not to take a duplicate? - I found patterns at his sister's; he has been treated indeed as a brother through the whole of the business.
Q. I believe you know that he has traded with other people, and had the articles of you? - He has.
Q. In this shilling you value his time? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. Did you miss such patterns as these? - We had different impressions struck off, and at different times, we could not tell where they were gone.
Prisoner. I have only this to say, that Mr. Bates always asked me to print them patterns, and when I printed them I always printed a set for him, and one for myself, and my set was on my own paper.
I live in Buckle-street; I have known the prisoner many years, he is a very sober honest man, and a very industrious man; I was at the house when Mr. Bates was there, and Mr. Clarke came home; Mr. Bates told him to look at these cloths; Mr. Clarke told him that the cloths was not his; Mr. Bates told him, that if on condition he would say the cloths were his, he would forgive him, he would not expose him, but he could never more expect to work in his warehouse; Mr. Clarke made answer directly, that on those conditions he would say the cloths was his; Mr. Bates directly said, you have confessed to this, but there is something else; Mr. Clarke made answer, and said, he knew nothing of any thing else, he never saw nothing; Mr. Bates made answer that was enough, he did not doubt but that all the men in the warehouse were alike, but he would punish him for an example to the rest.
Q.And you are sister to the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, I am.
Q.So that past when Mr. Bates and Mr Taplin were present? - Yes, and Mr. Hart was at the time present likewise.
Q. All these three persons were present, and Mr. Bates said, now, if you will own that these cloths are mine, I will forgive you? - He did, indeed; and I said directly to Mr. Clarke, do say they are his; then directly he said, then I will say they are your's, take them; but he directly said, that is not all, you have confessed to these, but there is something else; says my brother, I know nothing else.
Q. He was taken immediately to the magistrate's? - He was.
Q. You went with him? - I did.
Q. Then you found that Mr. Bates was so far from forgiving him, that he did not forgive him? - No, he was for persecuting him very violent indeed.
Q. So then as you went before the justice, you told this story there? - No, I did not; I was asked no questions there.
Q.Then you did not tell them at the magistrate's that Mr. Bates had promised to forgive your brother? - No, I did not.
Q. Are you sure that your brother did say that that cloth was Mr. Bates's? - O, yes, he did.
Q. Because Mr. Bates has forgot it? - He said, I will say on them conditions, them are your's.
The prisoner called five witnesses who gave him a very good character.
Mr. Knowlys to Bates. Did you at the time that the man was in his house, say to him, if you will confess that cloth to be mine, I will forgive you? - I did not.
Q. Did the prisoner say, on these conditions, then I do own the cloth to be your's? - He did not.
Q. To Taplin. Did you hear Mr. Bates say to Clarke, if you will own to the cloth being mine, I will forgive you? - I did not.
Q. Did you hear the prisoner say, on these conditions I do own that cloth to be your's? - I did not.
Mr. Const. Did you attend to the whole of the conversation between them? - I did not; I was backward and forward, I did not attend at all.
Q. Therefore it might be said, and you not hear it? - It might.
GUILTY . (Aged 38.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
Q. Did you see it taken from you? - No, I did not.
Q.Have you ever seen it since? - Yes, the 13th of May, on the Greenwich road, coming from Blackheath; I knew it to be mine; I asked the woman how she came by that ass? (a woman driving it) she said she bought it; I asked her where? she said, in the road; I asked her how long since? she said three months since; I told her it was my property, and therefore it was necessary that we should find a justice of peace, that I might have it.
Q. Did not you have her committed? - No. I have wrote to her, but she is not here.
Q. Have you kept this ass from that time to this? - Yes, since the 13th of May.
Q.Why do you charge this prisoner with it? - I was informed by a man that travels the country, that a man of the name of Ivory had seen this ass.
I am a carpenter, at Wetstone, in Finchley parish, near Barnet, in Middlesex.
Q. What do you know about the jack ass belonging to Mr. Nash? - I see the prisoner at the bar on it, Brackley, in Page-street, Hendon, on the 26th of March, soon after nine o'clock in the morning; they were driving some more asses to bring them to London.
Q. What was the other man doing? - He was on another ass by the side of him. They were driving three more asses before them; I had seen the prisoners before. I keep milking asses myself, and that made me take particular notice of them. They wanted me to buy a mare ass of them, but we did not deal.
Q. At that time did you at all know Nash? - Not at that time.
Q. What was there singular about the ass, was it a mare ass or a jack ass? - A jack ass, but cut. It was remarkable by being very high, and by being cut, which made me know him again, and his tail being cut, and I took particular notice of it as I could, expecting them to be stole.
Q. Have you seen it since that time? - Yes.
Q. How soon did you see it afterwards? - Last Wednesday evening, a week before yesterday.
Q. Where did you see this ass? - At my own door; Mr. Nash brought it to me to know whether it was the ass that I see this man upon.
Q. Can you veature to swear that you made observation enough to be positive? - Quite certain.
Q.That is the one that you see Brackley upon? - Yes.
Q.Was this offered to sell with the mare ass? - No, only the mare ass. I did not offer to buy that, I did not want such a thing as that.
Q. Do you know where Mr. Nash lives? - In the country in Buckinghamshire, somewhere near Wickham-common.
Q. How far may that be from where you saw the man? - I cannot say.
Nash. I suppose it may be upwards of thirty miles from where I found it.
Q. I mean the place where the prisoner was seen on this ass, offering it to sell? - That I cannot tell.
Q. When had you last seen it, before you lost it? - The 24th.
Prisoner Brackley I was coming up to sell five asses that I had got then; I had got one that was rather heavy in foal; as I was coming along, this man see me, and he asked me the price of it; I told him, and we could not agree. With that I came and brought them all up to Smithfield, all of them, and I sold it to a man whom I could have got to prove that he bought the ass of me that day, in Smithfield, but I thought I should have been tried in the country, and that is the reason that I have no witnesses here now. I used to drive asses with earthen-ware. My father bought it in Smithfield for my purpose.
Prisoner Cogdal. I know nothing about it, it was his ass for any thing I knew; I was coming up to Smithfield to buy me a horse; therefore I was walking along after him.
Court to Ivory. Were these men in company together? - They were in company together, and both stopped together, and I talked to them both about dealing
Q. Did they both offer to sell? - Yes.
Q. You are sure that where these asses were offered to sell, was in the county of Middlesex? - It was in the parish of Hendon, and Hendon and Millhill is in Middlesex.
Jury to Nash. Do you know either of the prisoners at the bar? - I know then both very well; John Cogdal used to drive five or six asses with a waggon and a horse behind them; and the other used to sell earthen ware, loaded on asses.
Q.What is the value of it? - I gave two guineas for it; I have been offered a guinea and a half for it since.
Both not GUILTY .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Q. Do you know Mr. Fowler, the prosecutor of this indictment? - Yes.
Q. What do you know respecting his having an ass? - I know very well of his having one.
Q.Where does he live? - In Pigmy's-green, Coopham, Berkshire. It was lost either the Wednesday evening before Good Friday, or else the Thursday morning. We missed her on Thursday, the fore part of the day.
Q.What day of the month was that? - I he first or second, I believe.
Q.Have you seen her since? - Yes. By me information of Mr. Nash that she was in the possession of Mr. Jordan, at Finchley, there I found her in his meadows; that was last Friday.
Q.You had not seen her before last Friday, since she was stole? - No. I knew her very well, she is marked R. F. on the near hip, a fine she ass. Mr. Fowler he bought her for her milk, for a child that he had that was very ill; I am his servant, I have been his servant almost four and twenty years I am sure it was Mr. Fowler's; he has had her last Christmas a twelve month.
I was walking about my fields, on the 2d of April, looking behind me -
Q. Where do you live? - At Penn, in Buckinghamshire.
Q. How far is that from Coophan? - I suppose it may be eight or nine miles. I believe it was the 2d of April, it was the day before Good Friday; when I got into the road, I looked behind me, and I saw two men bringing three asses along, they were at a distance behind me; I stopped a little for them to come up; they did not come up while I stopped, they seemed to slacken their pace; I goes on into a little farm yard, there I stops till the prisoners came up opposite the yard gate; I then stepped to the gate and asked them where they were going to drive those asses? they said, home; I made answer and said, home! yes, home, they said, the other side of Wickham Heath. I followed them for about five or six hundred yards; I thought to myself I would go home, and take my horse and ride to Mr. Nash's, who had informed me that be had lost an ass the week before. I took a horse and went and informed Mr. Nash. We went
Q. Did the prisoners live far from thence? - No, it may be a quarter of a mile, or half a mile, for what I know. I says to Mr. Nash, this is a very odd thing. I thought they would come in the evening to take the asses away; and Mr. Nash and I went in the evening, about seven o'clock. When we came to the place where we lost the asses, we could not find them there. I supposed they were strolled away at a distance, and it being dark, we could not find them. About nine o'clock, the two prisoners came to the place where they had left the asses; Mr. Nash being a little thick of hearing, he did not see them till they popped on them. As soon as they see him, they turned towards home.
Q. To Turner. Was Fowler's ass in soal? - Yes; we looked for it to soal every day.
On the 2d of April I see the two prisoners and three asses in Penwood; I see them going towards their home; I went a little way further, and saw three asses; they appeared to me to be very much in a sweat, and then at night I went to see who fetched these asses; and between seven and nine, I cannot exactly say what hour, these two men came up very near me, the prisoners. I asked one of them, if they had seen any thing of a grey horse, on the common, as they came along? they said, no. I said, somebody had left my gate open, and my horse had got out on the common.
Q. Did you look at the asses? - Yes; there was a black ass, R. F.
Q. Did you see the prisoners with these asses at all? - I see the prisoners, five minutes before I came up to the asses in the road. Then coming up to the asses, I asked Mr. Clarke if they were the asses that he had seen before in their possession? he said they were. In the evening I went to wait to see who came for them, with Mr. Clarke; and between the hours of seven and nine, both the prisoners came near me. I was very near where the asses were left, and seeing me and Mr. Clarke, they crossed away over the common. I went still in pursuit after the asses; in about quarter of an hour after they came across me again. John Brackley said, have you lost your horse Mr. Nash? Yes, said I, I have. He then said, he had turned four of his asses up on the common that day, and could not find them. I saw neither of them again, nor the asses, till the 14th of May; there I see it in the possession of Mr. Jordan, at Finchley; he had bought it. Hearing of John Ivory , who gave me some intelligence of my ass, I went to him to know if he had any intelligence of any more being lost, and he gave me information.
Q. You gave information of it to Mr. Fowler? - I did; and Turner, he was there at the time.
Q.What do you know about this particular ass? - She was brought to me, and offered for sale, on Good Friday, at Mill-hill.
Q.What did he bring to you? - This mare ass, heavy in soal, marked R. F. on the near hip.
Q. Were they both together? - No, he was by himself.
Q. How much did he ask for the ass? - Twenty-five shillings. I did not bid him any thing, because I expected it to be a stole ass.
Q. I thought you said it was at Hendon in the other trial? - It was. This was not the same time; it was a week before. He sold the ass to Mr. Jordan; he owned to stealing the ass, before me and others.
Q. Did you make him any promise to confess? - No. It was at the other office.
Prisoner Brackley. I was going along with this young man; he was going over to see his sister, and he light of a travelling man that had this mare ass to sell, and he bought it at a place called Clay-street-hill. He has got the paper to shew for it in his pocket now.
Prisoner Cogdal. There is the receipt of the man that I bought it of.
Q.What is his name? - Robert Free.
Q. Where is he? - At Oxford.
Q. Why is not he here? - I had not proper notice to send down for the man; I thought I was to be tried in the country, or else I would bring a man to prove it.
John Brackley, GUILTY . (Aged 23.)
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
297. JOHN MORLEY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on 1st of May , five silver table spoons, value 2l five desert spoons, value 1l. a silver gravy spoon, value 12s. two silver sauce ladles, value 12s. The goods of William Barton , Esq .
Q. How long have you lived with Mrs. Barton? - Two years and a half.
Q. Who are you paid your wages by? - By Mrs. Barton. I pay all the servants wages in Mrs. Barton's house, except myself. I act as steward and butler. Every kind of Business is transacted in Mrs Barton's name.
Q. You say you pay all the servants except yourself, was your contract with Mrs. Barton, or are you paid as by Mr. Barton? Who do you give a receipt to? - To Mrs. Barton.
Q. Whose name is the business done in? who pays the taxes? - Mrs. Barton.
Q. In whose name? - Mrs. Barton's.
Q. Do you know Mr. Barton has ever been in the house? - Never to my knowledge.
Q. Do you know how they happen to live separate? Did you ever hear whether there was any legal separation between them? - I do not, any further than this, Mrs. Barton did not choose to live abroad,
Q. How long has Mrs. Barton lived in that house, do you know? - Four years the last March; it is her own house.
Q. Now when did you lose any thing? - On the first of May.
Q. Is the prisoner a servant in the house? - Yes.
Q. When did you first hire him? - On the 7th of October.
Q. Had you a character with him? - Yes, a twelve month's character, of a Mr. Moggridge, at Turnbridge.
Q. At the time you missed your property, was he still in the house? - Yes.
Q. How did you make the discovery of the loss? - On Friday, the 1st of May, the prisoner at the bar and I slept together in the pantry, and I got up a quarter before seven; and the prisoner intreated me to take a walk up the road, as, being May-day, there were many people walking. I went walking with the prisoner; I returned about eight o'clock. The prisoner and I went together in the kitchen, on our return; and after I had returned to my pantry, and cleaned my plates, and the prisoner at the bar assisted me, after that I washed my hands, and set the tea things, and put five tea spoons in a slop bason, and a silver tea strainer, and went to the pantry to cut a slice of bread and butter, the prisoner was in the kitchen the while, I came back to the kitchen, to take the things up into the parlour, and immediately missed the tea spoons from the tea board, from the bason in the parlour; I came down and asked him why he took them out of the bason, to make me come down again for them? (he had before that hid some plate, which I supposed he did it on purpose to vex me) He said he had not. I went up again, to be satisfied I had not overlooked them; and while I was in the parlour, he brought me up eleven tea spoons, and a pair of silver sugar tongs, wrapped up a paper, and said, here are the tea spoons, where you put them yourself, why did you make a noise to me? I said to him, these are not the spoons, John, you know that as well as me.
Q. You perceived that they were not your mistress's spoons? - Yes, they were my mistress's spoons, but not the same that were missing.
Q. If I understand you right, you placed these spoons there just before you went into the kitchen, and therefore you are positive that the spoons that he brought you back, were not the same? - Yes, I am positive of it. I returned to the pantry, and opened my closet door, and immediately missed the rest of my things from my tray that I had set them in.
Q. I see in the indictment that there are six silver spoons, tea spoons? - I missed five out of the bason, and a pair of sugar tongs, and one tea spoon from a cup and and saucer.
Q. When you returned to the pantry, what else did you miss? - Five table spoons, five desert spoons, a gravy spoon, two sauce ladles, and a marrow spoon. When I missed these other spoons, I begged to know what he had done with them; he still denied knowing any thing about them; that he had never touched them; I went up stairs to acquaint my mistress, but she was not up, and I came down again and still intreated to know what he had done with them, not thinking he had stole them, but thinking he had done it to vex me. When my mistress came down she asked him what he had done with the plate? I then sent for a constable and took the prisoner into custody; the constable searched the prisoner, and searched every part of the lower part of the house, and could not find any thing; he was in the house for two hours.
Q. Did he find any thing about the prisoner? - No.
Q. Has any of this property been found? - No, it has not been found.
Q. You have stated all the circumstances that passed in that day? - When I came to make up my accounts, before that, in the sum of three hundred pounds, I was twenty-three pounds eight shillings and five-pence deficient.
Q.Have you told all the circumstances that relate to the plate? - Yes; except begging him to confess what he had done. He was then taken to the watch-house, and the confession you will hear from the other witness.
Mr. Knowlys. Pray. what servants were there in the house? - Four female servants in the kitchen.
Q. Are any of those here? - No.
Q. Where did you say these spoons were missing from? - The tea spoons and and sugar tongs were missing from the stop bason.
Q. How long had you lived in this service? - Two years and a half.
Q. You have lived with Mrs. Barton, have not you? - With Mrs. Barton.
Q. Did you ever see such a person as Mr. Barton? - I know only from report, from the servants that lived in the house before I came.
Q. You never see her husband? - No.
Q. Is there any person that ever did see Mr. Barton here? - No
Q.Therefore, for aught you know, Mrs. Barton may be a single woman? - She has two daughters.
Q. She is rated as a single woman? - No.
Q. The house is rated in the name of Mrs. Barton? - Yes.
Q. I suppose you have received wages in the time you have been there; you have given a receipt, not to Mr. Barton, but to Mrs. Barton? - Yes.
Q.Therefore, for all you know, you don't know but she is a single woman? - I do not.
Jury. Is there an open area to your house? The pantry leads near to the area steps? - Yes.
Q. Was the gate open or shut? - Open. It is open from the time we get up in the morning, till the dinner goes up; there is a pully and weight to the door, which is always kept on the spring lock.
I am a carpenter, a journeyman. The prisoner confessed to me that he gave the spoons out of window, to a man of the name of -
Q. How came he to confess that to you? - I made an appointment to be at Mrs. Barton's that morning, to take a couple of Mrs. Barton's maids to see the sweeps dine at Mrs. Montague's, and I was there between twelve and one o'clock, the day the depradation happened, and I was desired, by the butler, to go after a constable; I brought one with me; then we came to Mrs. Barton's house, walked all over the lower part of the house, and looked after the property, and we could not see any thing of it; and Mrs. Barton desired the constable to take the prisoner into custody. Accordingly he did, and the constable ordered me to aid and assist, to go along with him to the watch-house, As we were going down to the watch-house, we called at a public house and had a pot of ale and a pot of porter among us; the prisoner he drank two small glasses of ale, and once out of the porter,
Court. Then there is an end of it.
Mr. Knowlys. You never see Mr. Barton in your life? - No.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
267. SOLOMON IDSWELL was indicted for that he, on the 1st of January , did falsely make, forge and counterfiet, and did cause and procure to be falsely made, forged and counterfeited, and did willingly act and assist in falsely making, forging and counterfeiting a certain stamp and mark, to resemble a stamp and mark directed to be used by a certain act of parliament made in the twenty-seventh year of his majesty's reign, being under the management of the commissioners for managing his majesty's stamp duties on parchment and vellum .
Indicted also in several other COUNTS for the like forgery, only varying the manner of charging it.
The indictment was opened by Mr. Trebeck and the case by Mr. Garrow.
(The witnesses examined apart.)
Q. Where do you live? - At Portsea, in Hampshire.
Q. That is near Portsmouth? - Yes.
Q. Do you know a Mr. Wolfe that lives there? - Yes.
Q. What is he? - A jeweller and dealer in slops, and a navy agent.
Q.What is the first name? - Gershon Wolfe.
Q.Does he in any part of his business, deal in seamens wills and powers? - As a navy agent he does.
Q. When was it you had first any transaction with Mr. Wolfe relative to any purchase of these instruments? - On the day after Christmas last, the 26th of December.
Q.How many did you purchase of them at that time? - Six.
Q. I do not ask you what conversation
Q.You sent that letter to London?(a letter shewn him) - I did.
Q. Look at these.(three wills and powers shewn him) - I have put a private mark on each of these.
Q.These three you purchased of Wolfe? - I did.
Q.That letter you addressed to the commissioners of the Stamp office? - I did.
Mr. Shepherd. Is there any mark by which you know they are the same you bought of Mr. Wolfe? - I have marked those, and they are also countermarked by another person; on each of those you will see the initials of my name at the top and the bottom.
Q. When did you put that? - At Mr. Escott's office, I was wrote for from Mr. Escott to come up to town, and bring what stamps I had.
Q. Do you mean to say that you put these marks before they were out of your custody? Where had they been? - Locked up in my desk, but they were in my custody till I came up.
Court. You marked them before you parted with them? - Yes, I did.
Q. You are assistant to the solicitor of the Stamp office? - Yes.
Q. When was it, in consequence of an order from the Stamp office and solicitor, that you went to Portsmouth? - On the 17th of February last.
Q. Did any body go with you? - Mr. Wood.
Q. Tell my lord, and these gentlemen, what you did when you came to Portsmouth? - In consequence of information being given to the commissioners of the stamps, it was thought necessary that some persons should go down to Portsmouth.
Q. And you went? - Yes. On my arrival, I went to the shop of Mr. Wolfe, and I found him in the shop, that shop was on the common herd in Portsmouth; we arrived there about nine in the morning.
Q. What time did you get to his house? - About eleven o'clock.
Q. There you see Wolfe himself; now, tell me what transaction you had with Wolfe? - I asked for a trifling article in the silversmith line, a tea caddy spoon; I bought that, and then asked him if he could inform me where I could get any seamens powers? He went into a back room, and brought a small quantity of seamens powers of attorney in his hand; and I said, I would have two. I asked the price? and he said, six shillings and threepence. I paid him twelve and sixpence for them.
Q. How many might there be of that parcel? - I believe about a quire.
Q. Which are the two that you bought? - These two. (Produced.)
Q. Did any thing more pass between you? - We immediately secured Mr. Wolfe, and then began to make a search for more.
Q. In consequence of your search, did you find any more similar to these that you had bought? - In consequence of that search, I found the stamps that I have here in a bureau, in a back parlour, behind the shop. (Produced.)
Q. All that quantity you found in a back part of the house? - Yes, about three hundred and fifty.
Q. Any more found in any other part of the house? - None.
Q. That was all that you then found, on search being made in the house? - Yes; Wolse was taken to Serjeant Carter, the magistrate, by Mr. Wood, and I remained in the house.
Q. In consequence of your arrival in town, where was Wolfe carried to? - Wolfe was carried to St. Giles's watch-house.
Q. In consequence of any information which you derived from him on the road, what did you next do? - We thought it necessary to secure him, and get some Bow-street officers, and go immediately to Moses's house, in Houndsditch.
Q. Where did the house turn out to be in fact? - In Gun-square, Houndsditch; he was in bed. We went to Gun-square, Houndsditch, and asked for Mr. Moses; he was in bed; we desired he might be sent for. He very shortly came down; and I then stepped out, and desired the officers to come in and secure him, which was done.
Q. When you took him into custody, what was done with him? - He remained there some short time.
Q. And, in consequence of examination or information of Moses, what did you next do? - The other officers and Wolfe, in company with one or two others, went and -
Q. Were you with them? - I was not; I staid with Moses.
Mr. Knowlys. Did you put any mark on these two, Mr. Whittard? - I have; you will see it at the right hand, in the corner.
Q. You did it at the time? - I did, on my arrival in town; they were not out of my custody when I did it.
Q. You made no search in Moses's house? - None.
Q. None was ever made, to your knowledge? - Not, to my knowledge.
Mr. Garrow. You knew that dswell Idswell was committed to custody? - Yes.
Q. You knew that he afterwards got from custody, and was shot? - Yes.
Q. You see him after he was dead? - Yes.
Q. The brother of the prisoner? - The brother of the prisoner, I understand. Here are twenty-three more, that were delivered to me after Mr. Wolfe was delivered to bail, which he found at Portsmouth after he got home.
CHRISTOPHER KENNEDY sworn.
Q. You are one of the officers of the public office at Bow-street? - Yes, I am.
Q. You went to the house of Moses? - I did.
Q. After you had apprehended Moses, and he was secured, where did you then go? - To St. Mary-axe.
Q.Describe the house as well as you can, to the gentlemen of the jury? - It was about eight doors from Gracechurch-street. on the right hand side.
Q. When you got into the house, what did you do there? - I went up one pair of stairs back room, and in the bed there was Idswell Idswell.
Q. Do you know whose house it was? - No, I don't know; then he got up, and put his clothes on, and we took him to Bow-street.
Q. Did you search the house, or any thing of that sort? - I did.
Q. When was it you went in pursuit of the prisoner at the bar? - On the 26th.
Q. Where did you find him? - No. 8, King-street Golden-square, on the ground floor, in a closet, a small little room behind the back parlour, just room enough for a bed.
Q. What time of the day, or night was it you went there? - Between eight and nine in the morning.
Q. There was a little bed in the closet? - Yes, he was in bed.
Q. Any other person there? - Not in the closet.
Q. What did you do with him? - We brought him to Bow-street.
Q. For a bed? - For a bed.
Court. What o'clock in the morning was it? - About eight o'clock in the morning.
Prisoner. I wish to ask whether he searched the house of my brother? - Yes, I did.
Q. What did you find there? - A great many watches, and a badge that the messengers wear.
Court. You had better write your questions to your counsel, you have very able counsel.
Q. To witness. What do you mean by a badge? - The silver greyhound, what the King's messengers wear.
Q. Was not there a bed and bedstead in this room where you found him? - There was.
Q. It was a small room going behind the back parlour? - It was behind the back parlour.
Court. Was Idswell Idswell ever a messenger, do you know? - Not that I know of.
Mr. Garrow. I believe messengers are not of their persuasion.
Court. How long after the first was it before the second was apprehended? - Better than a week, I am not certain to a day.
Mr. Garrow. Had you been endeayouring to find him in the mean time? - I had.
GERSHON WOLFE sworn.
Q. Where do you live? - At Portsmouth.
Q. What business do you carry on there? - A silversmith, and in the agency business.
Q. Agency of what sort? - Doing business for officers and seamen, in the navy.
Q. How long have you been acquainted with him? - I have known him for many years.
Q. Did you happen to be in London in the month of November, in the year 1794? - Yes.
Q. Did you see Moses? - I saw Moses.
Q. Mr. Wolfe, attend to what I am saying to you; I do not ask you what he said to you, or what you said to him. Where did you see him? - In Houndsditch, in the street, in London.
Q. Had any money transactions ever taken place between you and Moses? - Yes, he was in my debt twenty-five pounds, for which I had his note of hand.
Q. Did you meet him again after the first time you had conversation with him? - Yes, some time again, a few days after.
Q. Had you any conversation with him relating to stamps the first time? - Yes.
Q. When you met him the second time, had you any further conversation with him on the subject of stamps? - Yes, he put the same questions to me again.
Q. How soon after might you return to your own residence at Portsmouth? - I returned a few days after that.
Q. Did you at any time, after you had returned, in consequence of conversations you had with Moses, receive any stamps? - Yes, I did.
Q. When did you receive, as near as you can tell, the first parcel of them? - In the latter end of November, or the beginning of December.
Q.What sort of stamps were they that you received? - I received six shilling
Q. Were they applicable to these powers? - Yes.
Q. And on these printed forms? - Yes.
Q. How many might you receive in the first parcel? - I believe ninety pounds worth.
Q.Were they all of the same sort, all applicable to the use of the navy? - Yes.
Q. How did you receive them, by what conveyance? - They came by the mail coach, or some other carriage.
Q. In what way did you pay for that first parcel; had you any letter of advice of them? - I had a letter in our language, which I have got here.
Q. In what way did you pay for that first order? - I paid a draft of fifty pounds.
Mr. Garrow. It is a Portsmouth and Hampshire bank bill, dated the 26th of December 1794, payable to witness or order, for fifty pounds, at fifteen days date, payable to Messrs. Fry and Co.
Q. After you had remitted this bill, what was the next thing you did? - There was another bill among it, a ten pounds draft, on Esdaile and Co. making it up sixty pounds.
Q. What was the next transaction you had with these stamps? - I gave an order for to send me the amount of twenty pounds in parchment.
Q.Were all the twenty pounds to be in parchment? - Yes.
Q. You ordered twenty pounds of parchment stamps? - Yes.
Q. Did the parchment stamps arrive before the bill was drawn, or was the bill drawn after? - I think the bill was drawn first, but it did not arrive till after I received the parchment. (The bill shewn him.)
Mr. Garrow. This is a draft drawn by Moses, London; dated 3d December 1794, for forty pounds, addressed to Wolfe, endorsed by him.
Q. What was the next thing that took place? Did you pay that bill when it was at maturity? - I did.
Q. Did it come to you endorsed as it is now? - It came to me through the hands of the Portsmouth Bank.(Read by the clerk of the court.)
To Mr. G. Wolf, Portlea, Portsmouth Common.
Q. That Idswell is not the prisoner at the bar, but the man that is dead? - Yes, it is.
Q. Well, sir? - A fortnight after that I received another parcel of six shilling stamps, and sixpenny stamps, and four-penny, on paper, and two-penny, these were on blank paper.
Q. Was that in execution of an order sent by you? - He told me that he would send me such, and he did.
Q.Had you given any directions that you should want fourpenny, and sixpenny, and twopenny stamps? - Yes, I had.
Q. What was the next thing? - The amount of these stamps were one hundred and thirty pounds, or thereabouts; after that I sent him a remittance for the same, the first bill was a fifty pounds.
Mr. Garrow. This was another of of the Portsmouth and Hampshire banks, 26th January 1795, to the witness or order, fifty pounds, at ten days date.
Q. You sent it with your own endorsement only on it? - Yes.
Q. When you got it up at your bankers, had it the same endorsement on it as it has now? - No.
Q. Was that the bill drawn on you? - Yes, it was.
Q. Was that paid by you on account of the stamps? - Yes, it was.
Mr. Garrow. Two months after date, fifty five pounds, pay to order, drawn by Moses, accepted Greshon Wolfe.
Q. Did it come to you with the endorsement on it? - Yes, as far as I know.
Q. What was the next thing that took place? - About a week after that Moses came down to Portsmouth, at the same time I let him have a few pounds, five or six pounds, while he was there, I cannot recollect which. I never had none before, nor none after, no further conversation.
Q. Do you remember these gentlemen, Mr. Whittard and Mr. Wood coming to Portsmouth? - Yes.
Q. Do you know Mr. Bevan, a stationer, at Portsmouth? - Yes, I do.
Q. Did you at any time sell him any powers, which you so received from London? - Yes, I did.
Q. Do you remember Mr. Whittard and Mr. Wood coming from London? - I do.
Q. Did you sell them any powers that came from London? - Yes.
Q. Did he seize a large quantity in your house? - Yes.
Q. They were part of what you had received from London, in the manner in which you have stated? - Yes.
Q. Are those the parchments you received? (Some parchments shewn him) - Yes, they are what I sold to Mr. Richards, an attorney, at Portsmouth.
Q. You have since delivered to Mr. Whittard another parcel? - Yes, I have.
Q.Were all of them part of what you received from London? - Yes, they were.
Q. Are you sure that all these different parcels we have mentioned, are the same that you received from London, through the hands of Moses? - Yes, they were all that I received from Moses.
Q. Were your order for payment an order to execute some former order of Mr. Richards? Were all that order delivered to Mr. Richards? - They were, there were no other.
Q. Mr. Richards is an attorney, at Portsmouth? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. How long have you lived at Portsmouth? - Twenty years.
Q. How long have you been acquainted with Mr. Moses? - For these ten or twenty years back.
Q. Did you know him much since the last time you was in London; have you had a great many dealings with Moses? - I have had no dealings with him in the late years, since this business here.
Q. Have you been intimate with him? - Yes, I have been intimate.
Q. You have known where he has lived, and what he has done? - Not what he has done, I knew where he lived.
Q. He owed you twenty-five pounds? - Yes, he did.
Q. That was for some business between you, of course? - He had some goods of me.
Q. I suppose you know a little of his history? - No, I know nothing of his history at all.
Q. Then you had but a slight acquaintance with him. Am I to understand that you was very intimate, or but a slight acquaintance? - I knew him for many years back, and I never knew any harm of him before.
Q. I want to know whether you knew much of his transactions or not? - I never knew what his transactions of late years were before.
Q. Here you dealt with him to a large amount, he was the only person that you dealt with about stamps? - No, not the only person, because I dealt with other persons in London and Portsmouth.
Q. About these stamps? - He was the only person about these stamps.
Q. You were taken up? - Yes.
Q. How long were you in custody? - What in prison?
Q. Yes? - Sixteen days.
Q. How many examinations did you under go before the magistrate? - I was brought up three or four times; I was brought up twice and had no hearing.
Q.How many times were you brought up in all? - Four times, I think.
Q. Were you ever taken up before? - No. I never was before.
Q. Then surely a man that never was taken up before must remember? - In the trouble I was in, it is impossible for me to recollect whether it was three or four times; I never was taken up before in my life.
Q. Were you discharged? - Yes, entirely, on finding bail.
Q. You was obliged to find bail after all, to answer such charges as should be exhibited against you? - I know nothing about it, I was discharged on giving bail, for a witness.
Q. Do you mean to swear that you was discharged on bail to appear as a witness, and not to answer such charges as might be exhibited against you? - I know I was discharged by the justice as a witness against the party.
Q. Do you mean to swear that you was not discharged on bail, to answer such charges as might be exhibited against you? - That was the first bail.
Q.Then you was first discharged on bail, to answer such charges as might be exhibited against you. How many examinations did you undergo? - Upon my word I cannot recollect, three or four times I was brought up.
Mr. Garrow. I believe before you came to Bow-street, you had disclosed the whole of the story that you have now told here? - I had.
Q. How many years have you kept house in Portsmouth? - Twenty years.
Q. Never in custody before? - Never.
Q. Did you sell these stamps openly and publickly? - I did.
Q. Is Mr. Bevan a law stationer in Portsmouth? - He sells things to the attornies.
Q. Did you attend here last session, expecting the trial to come on? - I did.
Q. Do you come here voluntary as a witness, or in custody? - Voluntary as a witness.
Q. Did it happen to you to take any security on these papers yourself?
Mr. Shepherd. I object to that.
Court. You attempt to impeach this man's character, Mr. Garrow wants to re-establish it.
Mr. Garrow. That certainly is it.
Q. To Witness. Look at that, (a paper shewn him) and see if that is security that you took yourself on this paper? - It is.
Q. What is the amount of it? - It may be two hundred or three hundred pounds.
Jury. What price did you give for these stamps?
Court. We cannot at present go into any conversation between Wolfe and Moses, as Idswell not being present, he has not an opportunity of denying it; when Moses comes up we may get to that question afterwards.
Q. Do not let any circumstances of apprehension, or any thing prevent you from speaking the whole truth, you are now under the protection of the law, and therefore I desire you to speak the whole truth. How long have you been ac
Q.What do you call yourself? - I used to do business for the navy, and in the mercantile line.
Q. Did you know his brother, who is deceased? - Yes, the same time.
Q. When was it you first had any communication with the prisoner, on the subject of forged stamps? - About four months before I was apprehended; on calling at the late Idswell's, in St. Maryaxe, in the prefence of Soloman Idswell, the late Idswell asked me, what I thought of having a six shilling stamp made? if I had anybody I could sell them to, I might make my fortune? I then told him I had a friend at Portsmouth, and mentioned one Mr. Wolfe; he then asked me whether Mr. Wolfe could be trusted, and would have no suspicion? I told him he would not, for he was a man that made use of a great many himself, and therefore he would have no suspicion. A few days after I see Mr. Wolse in town, whom I had known many years; in the course of the conversation I told him that I expected some stamps on credit, from a stationer, and wished to know whether they would said him, being six shilling stamps for powers of attorney and assignments? he then said they would suit him; I then told him I would send him about two hundred pounds worth; Mr. Wolfe said they were too many, that he could have a better use for his money. Then we parted without coming to any agreement, and then I went to the late Idswell's house, and acquainted him what had passed between me and Mr Wolfe.
Q.Where did the late Idswell live? - No. 57. St. Mary-axe.
Q. Did this conversation pass in the presence of Solomon Idswell? - No, it was the late Idswell.
Q. How soon after this did you see Solomon? - Then the late Idswell and me went to buy some paper stamps, in order to get them stamped; we went to a shop in Lombard-street, and bought two quires of blank powers of attorney without stamps, for which he paid half a crown, or three shillings, I don't know which.
Q. You met Mr. Wolse, you have told us what past between him and you. Had you any talk with this man about Wolfe again? - No, I had not. The late Idswell went the same afternoon to Messrs. Mount's and Page's, stationers, on Tower Hill, and he bought several quires of powers of attorney, and assignments not stamped, and took them home to his own house; and he also desired me the next day to attend, to call on him.
Q. Did you call the next day? - Yes. When I came he took me up three pair of stairs into a back garret, where I see in the middle of the room, a bench fixed with a small press fixed on it, and a fly.
Q. Was the press in working order? - Yes.
Q.What work was he engaged in? - He was stamping the blank powers which had been bought by the late Idswell.
Q.There you found this man at the press and at work? - Yes.
Mr. Garrow. Well? - After about five minutes the late Idswell went down stairs. After being up stairs half an hour-
Q. You went down stairs and left him at work? - Yes.
Q. By whose desire did you make it? - By my own fancy.
Q. You asked him leave to do it. Well, when you went down stairs, you left him at work? - Yes. I returned again at four o'clock the same afternoon.
Q. I would ask you what sort of a thing it was that they stamped these papers with? - It was a brass metal with a stamp engraved on it.
Q. In what manner was it done? - The paper was laid on the bottom of the press, and then the brass plate laid on it, and the fly with a handle forced the screw down on it.
Q. The stamp was not thrown down with the fly and up again, it was laid down? - It was.
Q. So that for each one it was necessary to take it up, and lay it down on it? - It was.
Q. You went down stairs and returned at four o'clock in the afternoon? - Yes. After I came, there were three hundred and twenty-three packed up.
Q. Had you any conversation while you was in the room or before you left it, with respect to the operation? - The work shook the room, and I mentioned it to Solomon, and he said there was no danger.
Q. You observed to him, what did you say? - I told him it caused to shake the room very much, and I was afraid it would alarm the neighbourhood; and he said, there was no danger.
Q. When you returned at four o'clock in the afternoon, there were three hundred and how many? - Three hundred and twenty odd packed up, and a direction wrote upon it, to Mr. Wolfe, at Portsmouth.
Q.Who was it told you there were three hundred and twenty odd packed up? - The late Idswell.
Q. Was that in the presence of Solomon? - No.
Q. What was done with them? - They were taken to the inn in Gracechurch-street, where the mail goes out.
Q.Who took them? - I am not certain whether it was Solomon or the deceased.
Q. What mail coach? - To Portmouth.
Q. What was the next thing that happened? - I also wrote a letter to Mr. Wolfe, by the post, in Hebrew, and acquainted him that I sent him such a parcel, and desired to have some remittance; two days after I received a letter, at the New York Coffee house enclosing me a Portsmouth bank note of fifty pounds, and a banker's checque for ten pounds, on Sir James Esdaile and Co.
Q. Do you know the note if you was to see it? - Yes.
Q.Shew him first the Portsmouth and Hampshire note. What became of the letter that enclosed these two bills? - It has been destroyed.
Q. What did it purport? - That there was a remittance according to my desire, of this banker's note, and a banker's checque for the stamps.
Q. What did you do with the bank note? - I gave it to the late Idswell to carry to get it accepted, and the ten pound banker's checque I went and received the money for it myself.
Q. What was the next thing that took place? - In a day or two after the late Idswell desired me to draw a bill on Mr. Wolfe for forty pounds.
Q. In a few days afterwards did you draw a bill on Mr. Wolfe for forty pounds? - I did.
Q. Who wrote the body of the bill? Look at it. - This is my assignment.
Q. Who wrote the body of the bill? - The late Idswell.
Q. It was made payable to a person of the name of Nelson. Did you know such a person? - No, I did not when it was wrote.
Q. What was done with that bill after you signed your name to it? - I don't know, I gave it to the late Idswell to convey it to Mr. Wolfe. I always wrote a letter to Mr. Wolfe acquainting him that I had drawn such a bill.
Q.What was the next thing that took place? - I wrote a letter to Mr. Wolfe, acquainting him that I had drawn a bill on him him for forty pounds, and I hoped he would acknowledge it; about eight days after I received a letter from Mr. Wolfe, desiring to have a quantity of stamps on parchment; there was an order wrote in English, which I tore off and gave to the late Idswell.
Q. How much was the amount of the order for parchment? - Twenty pounds ten shillings it came to after it was paid.
Q. You delivered that order to the late. Idswell? - I did.
Q. What became of it? Was there any remittance in that letter? - No.
Q.What was done with that order for the parchment? - I gave it to the late Idswell, and he went into Birchin-lane; I went with him, and he shewed the order to Mr. Weatherby, and left it there.
Q. Then the parchment order was left there to be executed? - It was. After a few days the order was got ready, and the lateIdswell went himself, and paid for it, and conveyed it to Mr. Wolfe the same as the other. About three weeks after I received another letter from Mr. Wolfe, where in he mentions to have some twopenny, sixpenny, and fourpenny stamps; I also carried it to the late Idswell's house, and myself and him went opposite the India House, at a stationer's, and there we purchused them, about five pounds and upwards, which I paid for myself.
Q. The Idswells were not provided with any stamp except the six shilling; so that the other order, and the order for parchment, you were obliged to get executed elsewhere? - Yes, we were. Mr. Wolfe requested me not to send him any more six shilling stamps, unless he should first acquaint me. I wrote a letter to Mr. Wolse, that I should comply with his order for small stamps, and also send him four hundred powers of attorney. I then went by myself to Mount and Page, on Tower-hill, and bought fourteen quires of blank powers.
Q.Unstamped of course? - Yes.
Q. And what did you do with them? - I brought them to the late Idswell's house in St. Mary-axe.
Q. The same place where the others had been stamped? - Yes. They were also stamped the same as the others were. I went up stairs for a little time that day.
Q. Who did you find in the garret when you went up stairs? - Solomon Idswell.
Q. What was he doing? - The same as before.
Q. He was at work? - Yes, stamping.
Q.Now how long might you stay with him the time that he was stamping these papers, that you brought from Mount and Page's? - I did not stay with him above five or six minutes.
Q.When did you go again; how soon were they finished? - I did not come the same day. They were also conveyed to Gracechurch-street, to be conveyed to Mr. Wolse.
Q. How do you know they were sent? - Because I received a letter from Mr. Wolse acknowledging them, and that
Q. How many were sent? - Four hundred, all powers of attorney, I believe.
Q. You did not go back to St. Maryaxe that night? - No, I went to the prisoner's own house.
Q. Where was the prisoner's own house? - In Baker's-buildings, Broad-street.
Q. Can you six the day when you bought this at Mount's and Page's? - Tuesday or Wednesday, I cannot say the day.
Q. When you came to Baker's-buildings what did you see there? - They were packed up to be sent to Mr. Wolfe. I see Soloman packing up the four hundred powers and the smaller stamps, to be conveyed to Mr. Wolfe.
Q. How did you know what that parcel consisted of? - I see them, he looked them over for to send them to Mr. Wolfe. Counted them I believe, and packed them up in a parcel to be sent to Mr. Wolfe.
Q. Did you the same evening write a letter of advice to Mr. Wolfe that they would be sent? - I did, and also requesting some remittance.
Q. Did you see the parcel carried to Gracechurch-street? - I did not.
Q.You went away and left the parcel there? - I did.
Q. What answer did you receive? - I received a letter two days afterwards, concerning the receipt of the stamps, and enclosing a bill of fifty pounds. (A bill shewn him.) That is the bill.
Q. You subscribed your name to it? - I did.
Q. Who wrote the body of it, did you see it wrote? - No, I did not.
Q.Are you acquainted with the hand writing? - No, I am not.
Q.Who produced it to you to sign your name to it? - The late Idswell shewed it to me to sign it at the New York Coffee-house, at the same time both brothers were there.
Q. They were then both together? - Yes, they were.
Q. When you had signed it, what became of it? - I gave it to the late Idswell to go to Smith, Pratts, and Hardy, silversmiths Cheapside, in order to send it to Portsmouth for acceptance.
Q. What was the next thing that happened? - Two days after I went myself, and the late Idswell went to Pratts, Smith, and Hardy, silversmiths, in Cheapside, and got my bill there returned from Portsmouth accepted by Mr. Wolfe, and he discounted it, and gave gold for it.
Q.What you call fine gold? - Yes; not coin gold. Then he gave me half that money, half the fifty pounds, and half of fifty-five pounds, the late Idswell did.
Q.What did you do with the fine gold that you got at Pratts? - He disposed of it, he gave me the allowance of that.
Q. What was the next thing that happened? - He told me then that he must not work any more, he must leave off making stamps in that house, he said it was no matter, there was another house where they had been making some louisdors before. Then they removed to Smith's.
Q. Who removed to Smith's? - He mentioned the house; in the mean time I went to Portsmouth, and received about seven or eight pounds of Mr. Wolfe.
Q. On this account? - Yes.
Q. When you returned where did find the Idswells? - I found Idswell in St. Mary-axe, and some time after he took the press in a coach; I went with him in the coach to Cornhill. I did not go with him to the house, I left him there, and he took it to Smith's.
Q.Where did you understand he took
Q.How soon did you see them again? - I see the late Idswell almost every day. In about a fortnight after the late Idswell went to Smith's house again, the late Idswell took me up stairs, and shewed me a table in the room.
Q.Then the late Idswell went up stairs with you, did this man go up stairs with you, or did you find him in the room? - I found the table and the press, and the press fixed on a very strong board, stronger than in St. Mary-axe.
Court. About a fortnight after you see the press in Smith's house? - Yes.
Q. Was that the same press you see in St. Mary-axe? - Yes, it was.
Q. Then the press was on a flouter board than in St. Mary-axe? - It was.
Q. The press and fly were the same? - It was.
Q. Did you at any time see the prisoner there? - I did.
Q. How soon after? - About four or five days after.
Q. Was the press before you see the prisoner there in working condition fixed? - Yes, it was. Then four or five days after, I went there with the late Idswell, and Solomon also was making of stamps.
Mr. Garrow. In what apartment was Solomon? - Standing by the press and working of Stamps.
Q. Was he in the same operation as you see him in St. Mary-axe? - He was.
Q. The late Idswell and you went to Mount and Page's, was it the same quantity that he was working upon when you went to examine Smith's house? - Yes, it was.
Q.How long might you stay while this man was working at Smith's house at that time? - Not long, I did not stop but a few minutes.
Q.From the quantity that appeared to be done, did he seem to have been long at work at that time? - No, he did not. The greatest part was unstamped at that time.
Q. What quantity might there be laying there for the purpose of stamping? - Not above fifty. I returned again in the afternoon, and took away from Smith's what were made.
Q.Who delivered them to you? - The late Idswell.
Q.Was Solomon there then? - No, he was not, and I carried them home to St. Mary-axe, and left them at his house.
Q. What were they intended for, to execute any particular order? - No.
Q.What was the next particular transaction? - That was Sunday, on Monday I called there again, and I also took what was made.
Q. Who did you find there on Monday? - The late Idswell, he also gave me some to leave at his house, and on Tuesday also.
Q. Did you see this man either on Monday or Tuesday? - No, I did not. On the first Sunday I see him there, and the Wednesday following they were apprehended.
Q. That is, you and the late Idswell were apprehended? - Yes.
Q.This man was not apprehended for some days after? - He was not.
Q. Was the die on which the impression was made in Smith's house the same that had been used in St. Mary-axe? - It was.
Q. You will know the press again when you see it, I take it for granted? - I don't know.
Q. While this business was going on did any thing happen to any of the tools that interrupted the business? - The tool broke.
Q. What do you mean by the tool? - The press.
Q. Did you see which part broke? - Yes, I did.
Q. Did you afterwards see it mended? - I did not.
Q. Did you see any other stamps besides, and dies for making stamps? - Yes, there were other stamps.
Q. Did you ever see these in possession of this prisoner? - No, I did not.
Mr. Garrow. It is not material on this indictment, so I will not pursue it.
Court. You don't know who took this first parcel to the mail coach in Grace-church-street? - I have forgot whether it was Solomon Idswell or Idswell Idswell, I am not positive.
Q. You are sure that in Baker's-buildings, there the prisoner was packing up these stamps, counting them and looking them over? - Yes, he was.
(The press produced.)
Q.Was that the press you see at work? - There was such a thing.
Q. Do you believe it? - There was such a thing.
Q.Which part was broke? - That part(points to it.)
Q.Look at the board? - Yes, that is the board.
Q. Now describe in what manner the stamps were put into the press? - The paper was put down, and the die put on it.
Q. This you say you believe to be the one that you saw in St. Mary-axe, and at Smith's; the board is not the same that was in St. Mary-axe, but the iron work you believe is the same? - Yes.
Mr. Shepherd. When was it the late Idswell first applied to you? - About four months before I got into trouble.
Q.About what month was that? - In October.
Q. When was it you told us that the tool was broke? - January.
Q. When was it they removed from St. Mary-axe, to Smith's? - The same month, January.
Q. You was the first person taken up? - Yes, after Mr. Wolfe.
Q. Had you never been in custody before? - I never was.
Q. Never in your life in custody before? - Never, I was not in my life.
Q. Do you mean to swear that you never was in custody on no charge? - I was once, in the year 1791, doing my business I happened to have a misfortune concerning the navy; there was a probate of a will brought to me, and it was supposed to be a forgery; I was ordered by the navy board to attend the board, which I did.
Q. You was not then taken into custody at all for that? - I was not.
Q. Was not there a man of the name of Welch, concerned in that business? - That was a woman, recommended by a man, of the name of Welch.
Q. You gave in some bail for attendance on a future day? - No, I did not to the navy board.
Q. I ask you this fact, whether nobody passed their word for you to attend the second time? - Not at the navy board; I received a letter from the navy board to attend on Tuesday, which I did; when I came there, they asked me where I came by this paper? and I told them it was brought to me by a woman, for to receive the money.
Court. Were you ever in custody on any charge at all? - No, I never was; the gentleman of the navy board were satisfied, if I would promise to detain the man and woman, when they came; at the same time the advocate for the navy board laid, they were not satisfied, and then I came away, and never came forward.
Q. Now, I ask you whether you did not give bail to come the next day before
Q. Did not you set off and go to Hamborough? - I did.
Q. How long were you in Hamborough? - Four or five years.
Q. Were you in London in this four or five years? - No, I was not.
Q. Did you ever appear public in London again, till Mrs. Welch, who had something to do in this transaction, was dead? - I don't know that she is dead, I did not hear so.
Q.Was it not in consequence of hearing that Mrs. Welch was dead, that you publickly appeared in London? - People might say it, it may be so.
Q. Was it not? - It might, I don't know.
Q.Was it not?Did not you keep out of the way till you heard Mrs. Welch was dead?
Court. What signifies pursuing it?
Mr. Shepherd. Do you know any body of the name of Barnard? - Yes, I do.
Q. He was a bankrupt? - He was.
Q. What debt did you prove under that commission? - Fifty pounds, I believe.
Q. O, a great deal more than that, three or four hundred pounds I believe? What did you claim to prove? - I did not claim more than fifty pounds.
Q.Never? - Never.
Q. You mean to swear that under Barnard's commission, you never claimed more than fifty pounds? - Never in my life.
Q. Nor ever, swore that he owed you three or four hundred pounds? - Never swore it.
Q. I do not mean publickly, but by affidavit? - Never.
Q. What might you have been, the greatest part of your life? - I was in very good business in the navy; I have been as well to do as some of the first merchants in London, till such times as I got acquainted with the late Idswell; I have done business for twelve or thirteen years in the navy.
Q.Now I take it for granted, you have always got your livelihood as an honest man? - I did always, till I became acquainted with the Idswells.
Q. Now, as you were an honest man, Idswell Idswell did not seem to be under much difficulty to persuade you into the plan? - In fact they got me under so much, that any thing they asked me to do, I should have done.
Q.When you were taken up you expected to be prosecuted, did not you? - Why, yes. The advice I received was that opinion, the person advising me to go off, as they might commit me.
Q. I am now asking you about the last transaction; when you was taken up, you expected to be prosecuted? - I don't know.
Q. No! when you was taken up for this forgery? - Certainly I did expect it.
Q. And in order to prevent your being prosecuted, you stated this charge against Idswell? - I did.
Q. You know nothing of Mrs. Welch's death? - She is not dead.
Q. Who furnished Mrs. Welch with money to go to Ireland, just before you came from Hamborough? - I could have brought the man to justice, but I did not choose to do it.
Q.Who furnished Mrs. Welch with money to go to Ireland, just before you came from Hamborough, and just before it was reported she was dead? - I did, but she is not dead.
Q.After you had given the account to these persons who are carrying on this
Q. Do you remember stating to any body, that the contents that was put on that paper, was not true? - I never did.
Q. You never said there was a great deal more put down than you could positively swear to? - Never.
Q. Did you ever ask any friends advice, how far it would be necessary to swear, in order to save yourself? - Never.
Q. You never consuited with any body about the evidence you should give when you came into court? - Never.
Q. That is as true as all the rest you have sworn? - Yes.
Mr. Garrow. Do you know a person of the name of Bryant? - Yes.
Q.What was Bryant? - He was late clerk to the prison where I was in custody.
Q. Is that the same prison in which a person of the name of Norwood was in custody?
Mr. Shepherd. That is extremely irregular, Mr. Garrow.
Mr. Garrow. I am not going to ask what Mr. Bryant said to him, or him to Mr. Bryant, I only want to bring Mr. Bryant's name on your lordship's book, then in order to ascertain the locus in quo, I ask whether that is the same prison in which Mr. Norwood was in custody.
Witness. I slept in the room with Bryant.
Court. Who is Bryant? - He was clerk to the keeper of the House of Correction, where I was; we were friendly together at first, but I found him quite different at the latter end.
Q. You are a Bow-street officer? - Yes.
Q.Did you examine the house of Smith, Church-entry, Blackfriars? - Yes, I did.
Q. When was you at this house? - I don't hardly recollect the day of the month, but it was before the prisoner at the bar was apprehended.
Q.Was it after the brother was apprehended? - It was; it was Wednesday, the 18th of January, me and Ruthwin went to Smith's house, a schoolmaster, in Church-entry, I believe it is called.
Q. You searched this house, and what did you find? - The first night we went, we did not find any thing, we went in search of the prisoner at the bar; the second time of searching, by the information of Mrs. Smith, we found this table in a closet in the school room, concealed, without the iron, exactly in the same state in which it now is.
Q. Where is the house? - Church-entry, Shoemaker-row, Blackfriars.
Mr. Knowlys. What part of the house in the school room? - It is not the garret nor the second floor.
Q. Were you acquainted with the prisoner, and his brother deceased? - With his brother deceased I was, but I cannot say that I have been with the prisoner.
Q. Look at this press, Mr. Solomon? - As to that press I cannot say any thing.
Court. You know you are sworn? - I have been.
Q. Give your evidence cooly and deliberately, and let me caution you to speak the truth.
Mr. Garrow. Look at that press. Did you ever see such a thing before? - I did not.
Q. How long have you known the prisoner? - I have seen him backward and forward for about a twelvemonth;
Q.Which Mr. Jones are you speaking of now? - Mr. Idswell Idswell, that is deceased, I see him abroad.
Q.When did you see Mr. Idswell Idswell last? - I see him about a day before he was taken.
Q. When did you see the deceased last of all? - When he was up at Bow-street, the last time.
Q. When did you see Idswell Idswell, the deceased, the last time of all? - When he came along with Day at the time he was shot.
Q.Did you ever see such an instrument as that before? - I cannot say I ever see it before, but I will tell you how I came to know of it -
Q. I believe you gave some directions where it might be found? - I did.
Q.What direction did you give to find that instrument that I call a press? - By the word -
Q. That will not do. What direction did you give for finding that instrument? where did you say it might be found? - In Bishopsgate-street.
Q.In what situation? - In the privy, according as it was told to me; and I will tell you how I came to know it.
Q.Is he an uncle? - I believe not.
Q.Is Mr. Solomon Jacobs one of the persons that is now in custody? - He is not, but his wife was in custody.
Q.You did not see it thrown down? - I did not.
Q.Except what somebody told you, you don't know how it came there? - I do not.
Q.You are an officer of Bow-street? - I am.
Q.Was that press found in the privy, in the same state it is now in? - It was.
Q. You have been for many years engraver to his Majesty's commissioners of stamps? - I have.
Q.Employed by them in engraving the dies with which the stamps are impressed? - I have.
Q. Did you by their direction engrave a die for a six shilling stamp, with the letter E? - I did, by a warrant from the commissioners.
Q. I believe you had the opportunity of looking over a great many stamps, which were suspected to be forged? - I had.
Q.Who produced them to you? - Mr. Whittard.
Q.Were all these that were produced to you, genuine or forged? - They were forged.
Q. Have you the least doubt about that? - Not the least.
Q. Is it to you obvious without a glass? - I cannot see without a glass.
Q. I believe you made observation on particular parts that I shall not examine you to, except one that is so striking; you see at the bottom of this, one shilling, one shilling, sixpence, one shilling, and one shilling; between these several things that I have now been remarking there is something impressed, what is that in the genuine stamp? - It is a small flower.
Q.What is it in that you call a forgery? - It is a cross, and very heavy, and different in shape.
Q. Be so good as to look at this, and tell us whether this is a genuine one, impressed from your die?(one shown him) - That is genuine.
Q. Look at your left hand, reading upwards you will see a sixpence, look at the shape of that? and then look at the forged one, and you will see it much heavier, the ball of the P.
Court. I see this is so badly impressed, that half the sixpence on the right hand side, has made no impression at all? - No, it is very imperfect.
Mr. Garrow to Major. You who have engraved the one, have no difficulty whatever in stating that the other is a forgery? - None in the least.
Q. You told me that all that Mr. Whittard shewed you were forged? - Yes, they were.
Q.And the die of the one that you produce; the genuine one has been the one used by the commissioners, which you made under their direction? - Yes, it is.
Mr. Shepherd. How long has that stamp been used? - Since the year 1788; I have the warrant in my pocket, it is the 27th of May 1788, and finished by me by the August, pursuant to that order.
Court. And been used ever since? - Yes.
Q. To Whittard. Did you shew to Mr. Major all these that are here produced? - Yes.
Q. Did that include that one that Wolfe himself had taken, that power that he had spoken of? - I believe so.
Q. To Major. Cast your eye on that, and see if that is a forged one. (the power shewn him) - It is.
Q. Do you remember receiving an iron press at your master's shop, in Gravel-lane, and when for the first time? - Yes, some little time ago there was a stool or frame made for it to stand upon, it was made of beech.
Q.Perhaps your book will help you to the month? - Yes, it is in the month of August.
Q. Be so good to look and see if it is the 25th of August? - It was the 25th that I carried it home.
Q. What year is it? - Last August 1794.
Q. You had the press brought to your shop, in order to make this stool by? - Yes.
Q.Was it let in? - No, it was not let in; we had the press about two days.
Q. Then you carried it home? - Yes.
Q. Where did you carry it to? - To Mr. Idswell's. St. Mary-axe.
Q. Did you fix it? - No, I delivered it to Mr. Idswell.
Q. Be so good as to look at that press, and see if that is the press that you took home? - It was not so big as that, it was much smaller, it was polished, wrought iron, this is cast iron; it went round with a couple of lignum vitae handles.
Q. Did you at any time after that receive any order with respect to the form of the stool, for fixing? - I received an order some time after that to send a man to fix it, I sent a man.
Q. To fix the frame that had been before carried there? - Yes, as I supposed.
Q.How came you not to fix it? - He said, he did not want it fixed; and I left it in a little parlour.
Q. You are journeyman to Mr. Roper, in Gravel-lane? - Yes.
Q. What did you go for? - I went to fix a block, or stool in the garret.
Q. What was it for? - I don't know for what purpose.
Q. What did he direct you to do? - To fix this block very fast to the floor.
Q.What part of the room? - About the centre of the room.
Q.In what room? - The garret.
Q. Who paid you for fixing it? - The prisoner gave me sixpence when I was done.
Q.Was it the prisoner that gave you the order and direction for fixing it very fast to the floor? - Yes, it was.
Q. What sort of a block was it? - It was a beech one, about two inches thick.
Q. Was it a sort of a block that was sit for a press to be fixed upon? - No, I think not strong enough.
Q. That depends undoubtedly on the size of the press; you think it would not be strong enough for that that stands before you? - No, I think not.
Q.You are likewise a workman with Mr. Roper, I understand? - Yes.
Q. On what day was it you went to St. Mary-axe? - The 20th of January.
Q. That was the day that you actually went? - Yes, it was.
Q. Who was it came to your master, and ordered you to go there? - That little gentleman, the prisoner.
Q.Did you see him? - Yes.
Q. What did he order you to do? - He came to me, and asked me to go with him to fix a press.
Q. To go where? - To St. Mary-axe, to fix a press stronger than it was before; and I went, and I did it.
Q. In what manner did you fix it? - I put two braces to it, from the ceiling, and from the wainscotting,from the bottom to the stand, to make it stronger, and one I put at the end.
Q. When you put that was it very strong? would it bear a considerable force? - Yes.
Q. Was there any press on it at the time you fixed it? - Yes, there was a press on.
Q. Was it the same sort of that, or smaller? - It was something of that sort.
Q. Had it a fly? - It had a fly.
Q. Did it appear to you to be in working condition? - Yes, it did.
Q. But it was required by the prisoner to be made more solid, and therefore you put two braces to it, who made you a complement for your trouble? - That gentleman, he gave me a shilling.
Q. When was that? - On the 8th of January 1795.
Q. You cannot swear positively to the press? - No, I cannot say.
Q. Did you take notice of it, whether it was of wrought iron, or cast iron? - I see it was a black iron; I took very little notice.
Q. It was in the garret that you see it? - Yes.
Q. Had you ever been there before? - Yes, several times.
Q. When had you been there before? - Several times.
Q. For what purpose? - I went there along with the gentleman several times, to do some little jobs; he wanted me about a little press that he had.
Q. What gentleman are you speaking of? - That prisoner; he wanted me to make a frame for it, that was a little polished one.
Q. Did you see the fly? - Yes, that was polished.
Q.Was that an order to your master,
Q. Then you went and took this order? - Yes.
Q. That frame that you made was fixed, and this press on it, the small press? - I did not fix the press on it, we had the press at our shop several days.
Q. Looking at that, can you say, that is the same that you saw the last time? - I cannot say it is the same.
Q. Do you believe it to be the same? - It is the same in point of size.
Q. You live at No.7, Creed-lane? - Yes.
Q. A blacksmith by business? - Yes.
Q. You was a journeyman to Mr. Ginger, of St. Andrew's, Holborn-hill? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember, in the month of October last, any instrument for making stamps being brought to your master's shop to be repaired? - Yes, I believe it was October.
Q. What was wanting to be done to it? - The guides of it were loose, and that part was made stronger.
Q.What do you mean when you describe it an instrument for making stamps? - A press. The first one that was brought was broke.
Q. You don't know who brought it, or took it away? - I do not.
Q. After it had been brought, and taken away, the first time, how soon did you see it again? - I see part of it again in about three weeks, or a month, the screw and the sliding bar to repair, and to put a new end to the screw.
Q. Where did you carry it home to? - To St. Mary-axe.
Q.Did you carry it according to the direction that was left by the person that brought it? - Yes.
Q. How soon did you finish it? - I believe, about a couple of days.
Q.At whose house in St. Mary-axe? - Mr. Idswell.
Q.How soon after this did you see the prisoner at the bar, after you had repaired it the second time? - Not till Christmas.
Q.How came you to see him then, and what did he come about? - The tool broke, the frame of the press, and I repaired it.
Q. Tell us who came about it? - Mr. Idswell, at the bar, and another gentleman. I had left Mr. Ginger, and they came to me, to my own house; they said, Mr. Ginger told them that I had left him, and directed them to where I lived.
Q. Did they leave any press with you? - Yes, to have a new frame; I put the iron work to the foundery to cast, and then I put the screw and bars, to make it complete.
Q. You did that by order of the prisoner? - Yes.
Q. Who was the founder that did it? - Brodie, in Cary-street.
Q.After that, did you see the prisoner again? - No; the porter came for it, and he paid my wife for it.
Q.How soon after this did you see the prisoner again? - I had it then, I believe, five or six weeks before I had done it; about a month after I had it again.
Q. Who came to you about it then? - I was not at home when the gentleman came; the next day he came to my house.
Q.Had the press been left in the mean time? - Yes.
Q. While you was out? - Yes.
Q. Who do you mean when you speak of the gentleman? - The prisoner; and he ordered me to get it done as soon as I could; it broke in the middle part.
Q.What reason did he give you? - That he had got some business to do for a friend of his, that was to go into the country, and I finished and sent it home.
Q. And what would be the conse
Q. Did he promise to give you any thing for making it get on? - No, farther than he said, he would satisfy me for my trouble.
Q.In consequence of this you got it done, and sent it home? - Yes.
Q. Now, be so good to look at that, and tell us whether you are certain that is the same press that you repaired, by the order of the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, it is.
Q. Is that the one that you got cast at Brodie's? - I believe it is.
Q. Have you any doubt? - I have no doubt at all.
Q. There is your own repair on it? - Yes, there is.
Q.Then, looking on it, there is no doubt in your mind that that is the same that you had to repair from the prisoner, Idswell? - No, no doubt at all.
Mr. Shepherd. Have you been used to make these sort of instruments? - Yes.
Q. They are used for a great many purposes? - They are.
Q. And a great many different trades? - Yes.
Q.Have you been constantly in work for these last four or five years? - Yes.
Q. How long ago since you was in prison? - Never.
Q. Do you mean to swear that you never was in prison for a charge? - Never.
Q. Were you never in a court of justice before this time? - Yes.
Q. What were you in a court of justice before for? - For a tool that I made.
Q. Never in a criminal court of justice? - Never.
Q. What do you mean by a tool that you made, a witness as you are to day? - Yes.
Q. Who did you work for? - Mr. Ginger.
Q. Were you ever in custody during the whole course of your life? - Never.
Prisoner. Here is Mr. Owen says, this man was in prison twelve months for coming.
Witness. If I was, I suffered the laws of my country.
Mr.Shepherd. How came you to tell me that you never was in prison? - Have you ever been in prison more than once? How came you to swear, that you had never been in prison? - I did not swear it.
Mr. Garrow. What was it for? - I was reparing a tool where there were coiners, and I was taken up for it.
Q. Were you convicted? - Yes.
Q. How long was this ago? - Ten years ago.
Court. What was the tool that you was found repairing? - A large press.
Q. A fly press, for cutting blanks? - Yes.
Mrs. CHESHIRE Sworn.
Q. Be so good to look, and tell us if you know the prisoner Idswell? - I think I have seen the gentleman.
Q. Attend to the questions that I put to you; you are here to day, though we could not find you yesterday. How much money did you ever receive of the prisoner at the bar, Idswell? - Either the sum of two pounds or two guineas, at three different payments.
Q. Where did he pay you? - He paid me partly at home, and part of the money he sent by the porter.
Q.What did the porter take away with him when he paid you the money?
Q. Did you go with the porter? - The first time it was delivered, I went with the porter.
Q. Where did you go to? - I went to Baker's-buildings, to the best of my knowledge.
Q. Did you see Mr. Idswell there? - No, Mr. Idswell was not within when I went into the house.
Q. But did he come before you went away? - Yes.
Q. Then you staid till he came? - No; I was coming out, and as I was coming out, he came in, and I turned back. He said, you came home in time. I said, between eleven and twelve; and I said, we were rather watched by a person. He said, he did not do any thing that was unlawful, and that they might come home and see what was transacted; as he did not do any thing that he was afraid of.
Q. Did he try the press, to see if it went easy? - No.
Q. Did he ever, in your presence? - No, he did not in my presence; he never put any thing to it.
Q. Did he make any observation on the instrument going either free or stiff, or any other observation on it? - He said, that the sliding bar would go stiff; and I said, it will go better when you put some oil on it.
Q. What was it placed upon when the porter took it home? - On a mahogany table, in the one pair of stairs room.
Q. How often have you seen this under your husband's care? - It has been broke twice or three times, to the best of my knowledge.
Q. And did Mr. Idswell pay you for all that was done? - Yes, and for other jobs likewise; we made him a screw driver.
Q. Do you remember when any thing passed about going up stairs? - That was where Mr. Idswell lived.
Q. Did you go up stairs every time you went? - I only went home with it once.
Court. It was three times at your house to be repaired? - Yes, three times after it was first done.
Q. Do you know what your husband did with it? - He put inside the same as he did in that, the braces.
Q. You said you were watched? - I told Mr. Idswell that the porter and I seemed to be watched through Falconer-square.
Q. You told Mr. Idswell that? - Yes.
Q. Is that the same that the braces were put to? - It seems to be the same. It is one like it in the same form.
Mr. Knowlys. How many years have you been married? - Eight years, the 11th of February.
Q. Did you know Mr. Cheshire before you were married? - Yes, before I was first married; I have known him about fourteen years. I know when Mr. Ginger fetched him from Birmingham.
Q. Did you ever see Mr. Cheshire in Newgate? - No, I was married to another man then.
Q. He was there then? - Never to see him, I knew he was there. I lived in the neighbourhood at the time that he was a prisoner.
Q. I believe you work with Mr. Brodie, a founder? - I do.
Q. Be so good to look at that instrument that stands here; tell us whether the cast part of that was cast by you, by the direction of Cheshire? - I have seen it before at Bow-street. I apprehend it is; it has the same appearance of the one that I cast by his direction.
Q. Did Cheshire give you the direction for that you see in Bow-Street? - Yes.
Q. Nor you don't now know the person? - I don't know that I do.
Q.Have you ever seen the prisoner at the bar, upon your oath? - That person looks like the person.
Q. You have not seen him since he has been in custody, and therefore you may be very honest for what I know. Do you believe the man at the bar, to be the person that you describe as a stranger that came to you giving the order for the press? - Yes, I believe it is, and I thought the paper described the person that came about the press.
Q. You see an advertisement, and you thought that described the person? - Yes, I did.
Q.Looking at him, do you think that that is the man? - Yes, I really believe to my conscience that that is the man.
Q. And the press which you verily believe in your conscience the prisoner ordered, was fetched away by Cheshire? - It was.
Court. That is not this press, but a smaller? - Not this, a smaller.
Mr. Knowlys. These presses are made for a great many other things? - Yes, they are manufactured to the weight of five hundred weight for clothiers.
Jury. Pray were you present when the person came to give the order? - I was present in my own house, and called out by the clerk of the shop.
Q. Was it Cheshire, or the stranger, the prisoner? - I took it of a stranger.
Q.Which stranger you believe to be the prisoner? - Yes.
Q. And that press was afterwards took away by Cheshire? - It was.
Mr. Shepherd. But you never saw the stranger, whoever he was, about that press after? - No, I did not.
Court. When was the order given to you about this small press? - About the beginning of February.
Q. To Cheshire. What did you do with the small press that you received in February? - It was the same size as this; the porter took it away after I put it together.
Mr. Garrow. It was the one that your wife went home with? - It was.
Q. You are the wife of Anthony Smith, of a place called Church-entry, Blackfriars? - Yes.
Q. How long have you been acquainted with the prisoner Idswell, and his brother that is deceased? - About two years as nigh as I can tell.
Q. Who were they first introduced to you by? - By their sister, Mr. Simon Jonas's wife.
Q. Do you remember in the month of February, the prisoner and his brother coming to your house? - Yes.
Q. What day? - I cannot tell, I believe about the 5th of February.
Q. They came together, did they? - Yes.
Q.Be so good to tell us what past between them when they came to your house? - The young man, he that is dead, asked me if I had a room to let, and I told him yes; and he asked me if I had a garret, I told him yes, and he went up stairs to see it. The young man ran up stairs by himself as far as I know, he went up stairs and did not stay any longer than to go up and down; and I said, sir, will it do? he said he did not know, but he would call in a day or two and let me know. The young Mr. Idswell he called a day or two after, and asked me if I had a key to either of these garrets? - I said, I believed there was one in one of the doors. I advised him to have the biggest, because
Q. When did they come and take possession of the place? - They never had their things in my house to my knowledge. On Shrove Tuesday he asked me, says he, what time shall you be up to-morrow. I said, I shall be up between six and seven; says he, I shall send in some things. The next day Mr. Jonas called at my house, about eleven o'clock, and asked me if I had seen either of his brothers; and I said no, and he went away, and in ten minutes he returned with the prisoner at the bar; then they rested at the school room door and spoke to each other, and I spoke to Mr. Idswell. I said to Mr. Idswell, your brother is a pretty gentleman. I thought he was to bring his tools in and come to work; says he, Mrs. Smith, my brother he is under a little dilemma, he is arrested; then they went out together, and about eight o'clock the prisoner and Jonas called again, and I asked if they had seen their brother? they said, no, they were going to see him, and if they did not make haste, they should not see him before he was locked up.
Q. Be so good as to look at the board before you. Did you ever see it before? - About six o'clock that day a man brought it down from the garret, and took it down into the school room.
Q. Was that the same day as Mr. Idswell was arrested? - Yes.
Q. Had you ever seen this before? - No, never.
Q. It was no part of your property? - No, it was not.
Q. You did not know that such an article was in your garret? - I did not.
Q. Are you sure it was not there before Idswell took your garret? - Yes.
Q. When it was brought down into your school room, was it as it is now, or had it legs to it? - Then it had. The man put it in the wash house, and when Mr. Idswell came, I told him that a man had been to take a table out of the garret, and it was in the wash house, and he said there let it be, and I asked him what I was to do with the legs? there were two pieces of legs loose laying down; he said, I might have them for fire wood.
Q. I believe they were in fact cut up for fire wood? - They were.
Q. The officer came to your house very soon after? - Yes.
Q. How soon did they come to your house from Bow-street? - It was not ten minutes before they came; I don't know where they came from. I was had up to Bow-street, and I told them where that board was.
Q. Do you remember Mr. Idswell drinking tea at your house? - The brother did.
Q. Not this man? - I don't know that he did.
Q. Did he come at the same time? - He did.
Q. Did he bring any thing? - He brought a piece of iron in his hand.
Q. Did he shew it to you? - I should not know it again.
Q. Did he give it you to feel the weight of it? - No, he did not.
Q. What did it look like? - It looked like the bit of a top of a wedge broke off, to me.
Q. Did it look pretty weighty? - Not a great piece.
Q. Supposing that to be broke, what part of that would look like it? - I don't know that that is like it.
Court. You see that board brought into your house. Did not you? - No, indeed I did not.
Q. How often were they in your house? - The deceased Mr. Idswell, was several times at our house.
Q. Was not the prisoner there several times? - The prisoner was not there above
Q.Do you recollect a man of the name of Moses calling on him? - There was a man called but I don't know his name;(looks at him) I believe that is the man.
Mr. Garrow. You was out of town part of the time? - I was out of town from Thursday morning till Sunday.
Q. Look at Moses. - I really think he is the man, but he was not powdered nor dressed so when he was at my house.
Q. To Moses.Is that the woman that you saw? - That is Smith's wife.
Q. To Mrs. Smith. Did you ever see that iron part before? - No, never at my house.
Mr. Knowlys. You remonstrated with the Idswell that is dead, that he never came to work there? - No, it is the brother.
Q. You had never seen him come to work? - No, I never see him that morning.
Q. You are the husband of Mrs.Smith? - Yes.
Q. Did you know any thing of the Idswells coming to take a lodging at your house? - I cannot say that I do; it was Mrs. Smith's own transaction.
Q. Do you remember seeing a large piece of iron in a handkerchief? - Once.
Q.In whose hands did you see this piece of iron? - I believe, it was the deceased Idswell; I think it was.
Q.What sort of a piece of iron was that? - As near as I can recollect, it was rough, as if broke in two.
Q.Look at that instrument before you; if that was broke into any parts whatever, do you think that any of those parts would be like what you see? No, not any one part of it; it seemed in the form of a where not so wide as that.
Q.Do you know any thing of the legs of a table, what became of that? - It was chopped up for fire-wood, by the desire of the parties.
Q. You don't know of any such thing being carried into your house? - No, I do not.
Q. What does your family consist of? - My wife, self, and five children.
Q. You have been for some years acquainted with the Messrs. Idswells? - About two years.
Q. You are the proprietor of the house where they reside? - I have got the lease of the house, and I let it for one year, and they staid two in it.
Q. And you lodge in it? - And I lodge there as a lodger likewise; I was landlord and lodger.
Q.Be so good to look at a gentleman of the name of Moses; have you ever seen him there? - Yes, I have seen him.
Q. Used he to visit your tenants pretty often? - I have seen him often at the house.
Q. What part of the house used he to go to generally? - I never took notice where he went to; he might go into the kitchen, or parlour, but I never took notice.
Q. Was the garret in the hands of the Idswells, or of you? - The Idswells.
Q. I take it for granted that you did not know what was going forward there? - Not of late. Originally they gave me leave to keep some rabbits there, but they wished me to remove my things out; and since I have not seen what was in the garret; they kept it locked up.
Q. Court. You used to hear a thumping now and then? - That was not in the garret, it was in the next room to me.
Mr. Garrow. Originally, when you had the use of the garret, the thumping was not in the garret, but in the next room to you? - Yes.
Q.After they took possession of the garret, where did the thumping use to be then? - I did not hear it.
Q. While you had the garret, there was a thumping in the next room to you? - There was. I said to my daughter, when I see blank paper go in, it is my opinion they are making stamps. It was like the turning of a printer's press,but not fast, one after another.
Q. What rooms did you occupy? - I keep a room in the one pair of stairs, and one in the two pair.
Mr. Shepherd. You never heard any thumping in the garret? - No.
Mr. Garrow. If there had been the same thumping in the garret while you lived below, might it not be without your hearing of it? - It might very easily.
GEORGE WEATHERBY Sworn.
Q. Did you execute an order for Mr. Idswell last February? - I did.
Q. Where did you send it home? - To No. 57. St. Mary-Axe.
Q. To what name? - Idswell.
Q. The person of the man you don't know? - I should not know him again if I was to see him.
Q. Be so good as to look at this bill? - That is the bill for the skins, amounting to twenty pounds twelve shillings.
Q. You had foul them by a person of the name of Day? - Day packed them up, and London carried them.
Q. You delivered to Mr. Escott a certain parcel of stamped parchment? - I did; I marked them.
Q. You received them from Wolfe? - I did.
Q. The parcel you received from Wolfe, you delivered to Escott? - I did. (Looks at them.) These are the skins.
Q.You are in the service of Mr. Weatherby, and carried a parcel to St. Mary-Axe? - Yes.
Q.At whose house did you deliver it there? - At Mr. Idswell's, No. 57.
Prisoner. This man has been in the gallery all the whole trial.
Mr. Garrow. How dared you to continue in court? I move, my lord, that he be committed.
Witness. As I was subpoenaed on both sides, I thought there would be no objection to me.
Q. To whom did you communicate that you had been in the gallery during the trial? - I did not communicate it to any.
Q. Who desired you to stop, that you might not be examined? - Nobody desired me to stop.
The witness was ordered out of court, while the propriety and legality of examining him was argued by the counsel on both sides. Mr. Garrow concluded, that he should not examine him, but begged he might be called in, and committed to Newgate. The witness was accordingly called in.
Court. Where have you been during this trial? - I was up in the gallery.
Q. When did you come in? - When they were calling over the jury.
Q. You have heard what the witnesses have said? - I did not give any attention to them.
Q. Did not you hear me say, that no man should be examined that remained in court? - Yes, I did.
Q. What business are you? - I am a shoe-maker; keep a shop in Bartholomew-lane, near the Bank. I did not understand it; I never was in court to give evidence in my life.
Q. How came the prisoner to know that you was in court? - I don't know that.
Q. How did you dare to remain in court? the only way to prevent this in
Q.How many years have you been acquainted with the two Idswells? - I have known them from infancy, almost.
Q. You have had frequent occasions to see them write? - Not so well this; but the other I knew very well; he has been a client of mine; I have done several things for him.
Q. Have you been acquainted with the hand-writing of this prisoner? - What do you call acquainted?
Mr. Garrow desired the short-hand writer to be particular; asked him if he saw him sworn? and as he could not say he saw the witness sworn, he was now sworn again.
Mr. Garrow to Isaacs. You have been acquainted with the deceased Idswell from his infancy? - I knew them both.
Q. How long have you been acquainted with this prisoner? - I knew them both from the same time.
Q.Have you had an opportunity of seeing this prisoner write? - Never in my life, excepting once, about four or five years ago; that was in his putting his signature to an affidavit to arrest upon.
Q. Be so good to take this bill of fifty-five pounds into your hands, and attend to my question. I don't ask you to swear positively. On the oath you have taken, whose do you believe that hand writing in the body of the bill to be? - I cannot believe to it; I do not believe it to be Solomon's hand-writing.
Q.On the oath you have taken, whose hand-writing do you believe the body of that bill to be? - I am positively at a loss what to say. I do not believe that to be the prisoner's hand-writing.
Q.Do you believe it is not? - Attend a little, have you, besides seeing him write his name once, have you seen writing which you have known of him to be his? - Never in my life. I have had some writing, but I did not know they were him. I was concerned for a bunch-backed man in the Compter.
Q. You did not know from this man whether these papers that related to this bunch-backed man were his writing or not? - I never see him.
Mr. Shepherd. I object to that question.
Witness. I have known both the Idswells; I was in the habits of using the coffee-house where they used every night.
Mr. Garrow. Then you choose to say, that you have no knowledge of his hand-writing, and can form no belief of it? - I cannot; I only see him write once, Solomon Idswell.
Q.Be so good to look at that, and tell me whether that is the hand-writing of the deceased Idswell Idswell? - That is the deceased's hand-writing.
Q.You have no doubt about that, I dare say? - No, that is his hand writing. When Mr. Escott shewed me these two papers, both men were living at the time, therefore I said that I knew Idswell's hand-writing, and this is it. This is a month or six weeks ago.
Q.(Another paper shewn him) Now, tell me whose hand writing the body of that is? - Idswell Idswell's; I believe it is.
Q. Look at it; have you any doubt about it? - Very little; I have no doubt about it; but it is a very great thing to swear to a man's hand-writing.
Q. Great or little, have you the least doubt? - No.
Q. I believe you are clerk to Messrs. Mount and Page, in Tower-hill? - Yes.
Q.Be so good to turn to your book the 19th of January last, and see when there you sold any quantity of unstamped seamen's powers on that day? - There were fourteen quires sold.
Q.Will you be so good to look at one of these, and tell us whether this is from your plate? - It is.
Q.Fourteen quires is a large quantity? - An uncommon quantity.
Q.You usually get them stamped for your customers? - Always, almost.
Q.Be so good to turn to the 17th of February? - Navy assignments, ten quires and a half, but I believe there was only ten quires; there was some other little thing to settle, which made it equal to ten quires and a half. I believe it was Moses who came for them.
Q. Who came for the first order? - He came twice; it was Saturday evening the last time.
Q.With you turn to the 20th of December preceding; you will find a quantity there? - There were then sold six quires of powers of attorney, and six quires of naval assignments, but I did not tell them.
Q. These were all unusual orders? - They were.
Q. Do other stationers who have these have their own plates? - Yes, always, almost Many stationers have plates of their own, besides our house.
Q. What quantity do you usually stamp at a time? - Sometimes ten pounds worth, sometimes twenty pounds, and sometimes thirty just as they are wanted. Any other prisoners stamp powers of attorney as well as us.
Q.They have always their own plates, they don't buy them of you to stamp them? - No, they do not.
Q. You are a clerk in the house of Messrs. Pratt, Smith, and Hardy, in Cheapside? - I am.
Q. Be so good to shew him the bill of fifty five pounds. Do you remember this bill being brought to your house to transmit to the country for acceptance? - I do not recollect its being brought to our house. I did not see it till after I came back from the country; I did not see it till after Idswell's confinement. I delivered him some gold by order of Mr. Hardy, on some bill transaction, as I understood it.
Q. Do you know that man, Moses? - No, I do not.
Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.
The witness said he came into Court about four o'clock, after the trial had began; that he heard nothing of the order for he witnesses to be out of Court, till he heard the observation made by Idswell concerning Mashiter, when he went out directly.
Mr. Shepherd. Do you know a man of the name of Moses? - I do.
Q.What are you? - A watch-case-maker.
Q. I believe you have seen Moses in custody? - Yes.
Q. You, at that time, was in custody youself? - Yes.
Q.You have since been discharged? - I have, on bail. I am under my recognizance now.
Q. Had you any conversation with Moses on the subject of this case? - Yes, at different times.
Q. Be so good to speak out, and relate
Q. What did you say to him? - I do not recollect the very material conversations; I asked him if he came forward as a person who came forward for reward? he said no.
Q. Had you an conversation with him, in which he stated the evidence he was to give, the object of it? - He told me what evidence he was to give.
Q. Did he state to you his motive? - He shewed me a copy of his information.
Q. Did he say any thing about saving himself? - He said it was to save himself.
Mr. Garrow. I believe you have told us the very fact, You was in costody from an information given against you, consequently you had a great respect for informers.
Q. He told you that he was obliged to do it to save his own life? - He did, and I believe he shewed me some writings, which, I believe was a copy of his information.
Q. Do you know a person of the name of Moses? - I do.
Q. What are you? - I lately was clerk to the New Prison, Cold Bath-fields.
Q. Was that the prison to which Moses was sent? - Yes, it was.
Q. Did you go with Moses when he underwent his examination at Bow-street? - I took Moses up once to Bow-street.
Q. Was that when he was examined there? - I took him up on another circumstance, not on the subject of the prisoner at the bar.
Q. Did you hear Moses say any thing respecting giving evidence on this occasion? - Moses was in my apartment when I was clerk. When the prisoner at the bar was committed to our prison, I made a tender under the circumstances to the governor, Mr. Ayris, that he should have my room, that he should sleep in my bed chamber; and I would sleep in my sitting room.
Court. Are you still in the gaol? - No, I am not; I left it about three weeks. I have the misfortune to be in the king's bench for debt. I am brought up now by Habeas Corpus.
Mr. Knowlys. What conversation had you with Moses, on the subject of this case? - There was hardly a day ever past that Moses was not continually speaking to me about his situation as an evidence; always continually. I dare say if we talked of it once, we talked of it two hundred times.
Q. What did he say? - He expressed a deal of sorrow that the two brothers were likely to lose their lives by the situation in which he was placed, but he must do the best for himself, and for the sake of his family. He said that he had lived in intimacy with the two brothers for years, and that they had always behaved as men to him, and that they were on strict terms of friendship.
Q. Did he say any thing that you can recollect at any time? - I don't recollect that he ever said any thing else than wishing they might get through their difficulty both of them; and when the other brother was shot, he was agitated for several days.
Q. Do you know whether Moses had a copy of his examination at any time? - Yes, I have seen it.
Q. Do you know how he came by it? - I took the case by a messenger that came from the Stamp office; I took it to Mr. Ayris, the governor. He often wished to have a copy, and I asked Lavender for it at first, and Lavender said it would come from the Stamp office.
Mr. Garrow. You can tell us of some very handsome offer that was made to Mr. Moses on this subject? - I never heard one in my life, never heard directly or indirectly.
Q. You are discharged from your situation now? - No, I resigned; I wrote two letters to that purpose.
The prisoner called six witnesses with whom he had dealt, who spoke of him as always paying them for what he had, and that he was a general trader.
GUILTY . Death . (Aged 30.)
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
268. MARIA THERESA PHIPOE was indicted for that she, on the 14th of April , in the parish of St. Luke's, Chelsea , in a certain dwelling house near about the King's highway, on John Courtoy , unlawfully and feloniously did make an assault, and the said John Courtoy did put in bodily fear and danger of his life, in the dwelling house aforesaid, then and there did put; and a promissory note of 2,000l. signed by and under the hand of the said John Courtoy , bearing date the 30th of March 1795; the said note being his property, from his person and against his will, violently did steal and carry away .(The indictment opened by Mr. Vaughan, and the case by Mr. Shepherd.)
The witnesses examined separate.
Mr. Fielding. I beg leave to read the promissory note before I put any questions to Mr. Courtoy.
Q. To Mr. Courtoy. Is that your writing? - Yes.
Q. Is that the note which you supposed to be taken from you by this felony? - Yes.
Mr. Fielding hereupon objected to Mr. Courtoy's being examined, because on the face of the indictment there appeared to be a prospective interest in the person accused; and the person who has given rise to that prospective interest, cannot be suffered to be a witness to defeat that interest-The point was argued, and the court said they would go on with the other witnesses first of all, and see if they could do without Mr. Courtoy.
Q. Were you a servant to the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.
Q. How long had you lived with her as a servant before she was taken up on this charge? - About five weeks.
Q. Do you know Mr. Courtoy? - I see him twice before that time.
Q. Do you know him if you was to see him? - Yes.
Q. Did he come to your mistress the night before she was taken up? - Yes, he came about seven o'clock.
Q. Do you know any thing that passed between you and your mistress, whether she expected him? - Yes; she wondered to me why he did not come; she had wrote several letters to him. When he came he knocked at the door, and I let him in; he asked me if Mrs. Phipoe was at home? and I told him yes, and I asked him in, and shut to the door.
Q. Did she expect him that night? - No, I don't know that night particularly that she did expect him. After I had put
Q. What part of the house did Mr. Courtoy go to? - He went into the front parlour; which my mistress went up stairs and down two or three times.
Q. What before she went to him? - Yes; and after she had gone up stairs and down two or three times she went into the parlour to Mr. Courtoy, and says, O, you are come; he says, yes, I am come to settle the business; mistress replied, very well, would he come up stairs, for she had got a fire in her room, she was very ill; which the gentleman replied could not the business be settled here? mistress replied no; could not he come up stairs, was he afraid? Mr. Courtoy said, no, he was not afraid. My mistress went up stairs then, and Mr. Courtoy followed her, and I followed with the candle. My mistress went up into the two pair of stairs front room, Mr. Courtoy followed after, and I with the candle. As soon as we had got into the front room in the two pair of stairs, my mistress seized hold of the gentleman's collar, as soon as mistress had hold of the gentleman's collar, she said to me, Mary, take hold of his back; which I did take hold of his back; and mistress and me pushed him into a two arm chair; which the gentleman called out for mercy; the gentleman says, have mercy. Theresa; my mistress replied, do you think a lady like me will be served so, by such an old rogue as you; which down by the side of the two arm chair there lay two pieces of cord.
Q. How far was the chair from the fire? - It was not a great way off; about the middle of the room With the two pieces of cord there lay a broad blue ribbon. My mistress put down his right hand to the arm of the chair, endeavouring to tie it down with the broad blue ribbon; which the gentleman resisted, he said he would do any thing that he could, but he would not be tied; he said, he would do what she desired him, if she would not tie him. Mr. Courtoy then got his right knee into the two arm chair, and with his left endeavoured to hold mistress off. My mistress had got a carving knife in her hand.
Q. Where did she get that? - From the table; there was another laid with it, it was a common size one, two of them we have in the house.
Q. Was there any thing else lay on the table besides this caraing knife? - Yes; the table was covered with black silk all over it; on the table were two brass candlesticks covered with black silk; there were two pistols.
Q. Do you know whether they were loaded or not? - No, I do not know. There was a wine glass had got some gunpowder in it, and on it some balls; that was all that laid on the table.
Q.How were the knives, were they in their usual state? - No, they had black silk about the handles, both of them.
Q.The gentleman still continued in the same posture with his right knee in the chair? - Yes.
Q.For how long? - I cannot tell how long; but he was endeavouring to hold mistress off at his full length; at the same time my mistress held him by the collar, and had the carving knife in her hand;
Q.What did she say to him? - I don't know; but she was threatening him very much, and talked a language I did not understand, French, or some such thing.
Q. Did Mr. Conrtey reply in English, or in any other language? - No, in French, the same as my mistress. After that mistress was continuing the same language and Mr. Courtoy; I still had hold of the gentleman's back at the same time.
Q. How long did you continue in this posture? - I don't know exactly how long. After some time being in that way, mistress says, now I will tell you in English, it is not sit this girl should know what we are going to do, so she shall be sent out of the room; Courtoy replied, yes, yes; then I was sent out of the room, and left my mistress in the same posture as usual. After I had been down stairs about the value of a quarter of an hour or twenty minutes, I don't rightly know which, my mistress then knocked with her foot; I was then in the kitchen, which the gentleman that was drinking coffee with my mistress in she back parlour, Mr. Caddle.
Court. Had there been a gentleman drinking coffee with your mistress that afternoon? - Yes; he came there about four o'clock that afternoon. That gentleman heard my mistress knock with her foot, I being in the kitchen, he calls out, Mary, your mistress wants you; on which I came up stairs and went into the back parlour.
Q. Your mistress was not there? - No, she was up two pair of stairs.
Q. Who was in the back parlour? - Mr. Caddle. And I asked had for the candle, to be so good to lend me the candle, as my mistress had got mine; which the gentleman replied, yes, you may take it; or, by all means, or some such words. I went up stairs to my mistress; I found my mistress in the same posture as when I left oher, with the carving knife in her hand; Mr. Courtoy was in the same posture; my mistress said, is that gentleman still in the back parlour? - and I said, yes, ma'am; my mistress bid me desire him to walk up stairs.
Q. Did you desire him? - Yes; by my mistress's order. After my mistress had bid me, I went out of the room where my mistress and Courtoy was, then I went down stairs into the back parlour, and I went to Mr. Caddle; and I told him that my mistress would be glad to speak to him; and he replied, very well; and went up stairs directly; and after he had been there sometime, he came down; he went up stairs by himself. After he had come down again, my mistress still remained with Mr. Courtoy, and I was in the kitchen, and the gentleman came down, and went into the back parlour.
Q.Where was the back parlour? - As soon as you come into the house there is the front parlour, and then the back parlour. After Caddle had come down stairs, my mistress remained a quarter of an hour up stairs, and Mr. Courtoy too; and after a quarter of an hour or twenty mimy mistress knocked again with her foot very loud, which I heard in the kitchen; I went up stairs to her, and when I got into the two pair of stairs front room, she asked me if Mr. Caddle was staid in the house, in the back parlour? which I told her yes. My mistress was still in the same posture, with the knife in her hand; and Mr. Courtoy was still in the same posture as when I left him; she desired me to tell Mr. Caddle to come up stairs, she wanted him. I went down stairs and went into the back parlour to Mr. Caddle, and told him my mistress wanted him; which he replied, very well; and went up stairs directly. After a little time he came down, in the value of ten minutes or a quarter
Q. You say Mr. Courtoy was sitting at the table, what was there on the table? - There was a pen, ink, and paper. I left the pen with my mistress and went down stairs again, and went into the kitchen then. After I went down stairs my mistress knocked again; after she had knocked, I went up stairs to her, and still found the gentleman writing, and she standing at the table; mistress had then got the carving knife in her hand, and which was covered with black silk; when I went into the room, she says, this man has spelt something wrong; which my mistress gave it to me, and desired me to take it down to Mr. Caddle.
Q. What size paper was it? - A small piece of paper. (The bill shewn her) That is the piece I believe.
Q. Can you read writing? - Yes, I can a little.(Reads.)
"March 30, 1795. Two months date, I promise to pay Miss Mana Theresa Phipoe, the sum of two thousand pound, for the value received. John Courtoy, Oxendon-street."
Q. You say that is the piece of paper. Did you look at it or no at the time? - I did; I looked at it to see which was spelt wrong of it; and I took it down to Mr. Caddle; he went into the back parlour, and he said it was spelt wrong, and he would copy it out how it was to be spelt; which he pulled out a pen and ink that he had got in his pocket, and after he had pulled it out, he wrote down on a piece of paper, and desired me to take it up stairs; which I took it up stairs to my mistress; my mistress looked at it and said, that would not do, she would have a fresh stamp; the gentleman that was sitting down in the two arm chair said, he could make that do; when he said he could make that do, I went down stairs.
Q. What did your mistress say? - She did not say any thing. I went down stairs and stopped for some time down stairs; after about twenty minutes or a quarter of an hour, mistress knocked with her foot again, she knocked so loud that I heard her while I was in the kitchen, when I heard her I went up stairs again; mistress asked me if Mr. Caddle was still in the back parlour? which I told her, yes; and she bid me tell him she wanted him; which I went down stairs, and told Mr. Caddle my mistress wanted him up stairs; which Mr. Caddle went up stairs directly; then he stopped up stairs a considerable time. I don't know rightly how long it was, he went into the room by himself. After he had been up stairs for a good while, then mistress knocked with her foot again; when mistress knocked with her foot, I went up stairs, and see the gentleman, Mr. Courtoy, in the two arm chair, sitting holding the pocket handkerchief to his fingers and his pocket handkerchief was very much bloody; my mistress desired me to go down stairs into the kitchen to the dresser drawers, and bring out a bit of white linen rag; she told me that Mr. Courtoy had cut his fingers and wanted a bit of rag to put about them. I went down stairs, and out of the dresser drawer in the front kitchen
Q. For Mr. Courtoy? - Yes; Mr. Courtoy was still in the two arm chair, and when I was there mistress gave me the key of the cellar, that she had, the wine cellar, and desired me to bring up a bottle of sherry; (Caddle was up stairs in the room with my mistress) I went down stairs, and went to the cellar, and brought up a bottle of red sherry, my mistress called it; and the cork screw, and two wine glasses; the bottle of wine Mr. Caddle took out of my hand, and he took the cork screw and pulled out the cork; I put down the two wine glasses on the table; my mistress took the bottle and and poured out the two glasses of wine; after she had poured out two glasses of wine, she offered Mr. Courtoy one to drink; Mr. Courtoy refused to drink it; my mistress said, do you think I want to poison you? no, I will drink one before you; I heard my mistress say she would drink one before him; I went down stairs, and they continued for some time, and after a while Mr. Courtoy came down stairs.
Q. How long afterwards? - I don't know; not long first. My mistress followed after, and Caddle after; which my mistress had the two pistols in her hand when she came down stairs; my mistress and Mr. Caddle went into the back parlour, the same parlour where they had been drinking coffee; after they had got into the back parlour, Mr. Courtoy went into the front parlour, and when he got into the front parlour he took out his hat, and went out of the front parlour into the hall, and then went out of the door, when I got to the door with him, he said, good night, and God Bless you, and then shutting the door after him I came in, and went down stairs in the kitchen.
Q. What time of the night was that Courtoy left the house? - Past eleven o'clock. When I went down stairs my mistress and Mr. Caddle were still in the back parlour; after they had been there some time my mistress rung the back parlour bell; I went up stairs to mistress, and went into the back parlour to her; my mistress gave me a key of a bureau, that she had got up stairs, and desired me to go up stairs and fetch down the green pistol cases; she told me that Mr. Caddle was going to take the pistols home; I went up stairs, and in the first floor, back room, in the bureau, there I found the green pistol cases; I brought them down to my mistress. she was in the back parlour, still with the gentleman; when I got into the back parlour with the green pistol cases; mistress had got one pistol in her hand, the other was laying on the chimney piece; I put down the green pistol cases, and my mistress took them up; then I went down stairs into the kitchen again; then I left Mr. Caddle and mistress still in the back parlour together; about twelve o'clock Mr. Caddle went out, I heard mistress let him out; then after mistress had let Mr. Caddle out, I heard mistress go up stairs; when she went up stairs she brought down the two knives, and the black silk she took off the handles of them, and put them in a cupboard that there is in the front kitchen; after she had done she went up stairs, after she had been up stairs some little time, she came down stairs again, and went into the back parlour, and after being in the back parlour some time, she rung the bell for me to come up stairs, and I heard the bell ring. I went up stairs to my mistress; my mistress desired me to go up stairs, and go into her bed.
Q. Did you usually sleep with your mistress? - No, I never slept with her before.
Q. Did you observe your mistress's gown? - She had not got a gown on, she had got one of these dark wrappers.
Q. Did you make any observations on it? Did you see any thing on it? - I did not, I did on the blue sash that she had on, I see some sprinkles of blood; my mistress ordered me to go up stairs, I went up staris to bed, my mistress came too, we went to bed, and my mistress never said any thing more that night about the affair; the next morning I got up and got breakfast ready, and mistress came down to breakfast.
Q. How long was it before your mistress was taken up after that? - After I got breakfast ready mistress came down to breakfast; after she had got her breakfast I went up stairs to make her bed; my mistress came up stairs while I was making the bed; she cut off a piece of cloth, which was on the two arm chair, that Mr. Courtoy had set in the night before; after she had cut off the piece of cloth, she was going about the room, and she said, make haste, Mary, and fetch the hair dresser, make haste, for I am going to town on some particular business; I made haste and went to fetch the hair dresser; she got herself cleaned, with a white dress on; after she got herself dressed, she desired me to go and fetch a coach, I went and fetched the coach, and brought it to the door, as she bid me; when she got into the coach, she desired me to tell the coachman to drive to No. 9, Mary-le-bone-street.
Q. Do you know who lives there? - Mr. Caddle, who was drinking coffee with my mistress. The coachman drove away, and at about twelve o'clock my mistress came back again in the coach, and after she came in she went up stairs, and she went up stairs and took off her white dress that she had on; and after she had taken off the white dress, there came in a gentleman, who, my mistress told me, was the king's hair dresser.
Q. How long was it before your mistress was taken up? - After the king's hair dresser had been there a little bit. The gentlemen came about one o'clock, the officers from Bow-street, and took my mistress and me up.
Q. Should you know it again, if it was produced to you? - Yes, I should.
Q. Should you know the sash? - Yes, I should.
Q. What was done with the cloth after it was cut from the chair? - I see it down stairs in the back parlour; my mistress had took it there I believe. I did not.
Q. Do you know any thing was done to it there? - I do not.
Q. Did you see the gown that your mistress wore in the evening of the next day? - No, I did not; It was not a gown, it was a wrapper. (The note read by the clerk of the court.)
Q. Does any thing appear to be scratched out? - Yes; two appears to have been too.
Q. You are the officer of Bow-street? - Yes, I am. On Wednesday the 15th of April last, about one o'clock, I got to the house of the prisoner at the bar, No. 5, Han's-place. I knocked at the door. A young man came to the door. I asked if Miss Phipoe was at home? he said, no. In the mean time I was talking to him, in the passage, Miss Phipoe came up in the passage, the prisoner, in the
Q. Where did you find the note? - The note was in the pocket book.
Q. Was this the note? - (a note shewn him) it is, my name is on the back of it. We searched the upper part of the house. I did not find any thing there, but some letters, and a bond. This letter was in a drawer in one of these rooms. I think in the back room one pair of stairs; that was all I found up stairs. The prisoner at the bar went down along with me into the front kitchen, and in searching in the closet of the front kitchen, there were a quantity of knives and forks and there were two in cases. I looked at them, and on this one I found some blood which I brought away that is all I know of it. We brought her and the servant girl away to the magistrate.
Q. You did not find any part of any body's dress? - No, I did not.
Q. Did you go to apprehend any other persons indicted? - I went down to Chatham, after Mr. Caddle.
Q. Did you find him? - I did not.
Court to Brown. How often had you seen Courtoy at your mistress's before? - Twice before this happened. He had been about a week before. My mistress denied that she was at home; but she was at home.
Q. Did he see your mistress at any time when you see him there? - Yes.
Q.(Shewn the knife) Was the knife that your mistress had in the evening like that? - It was like, but the handle was covered with black silk; we had two of these knives.
Q. Did you go with Miller to Mrs. Phipoe's house? - I did.
Q.Describe what past when you got there-Miller and Carpmeal went in to the front door; I waited at the back of the house. As soon as I found they were in, I went immediately to the front door after them. I went up stairs, and found this young woman, Mary Brown . When I got in, Miller and Carpmeal had secured the prisoner at the bar. I then went up into the garret, and there I found Mary Brown . I searched her, and found nothing on her. When I came down again in Mrs. Phipoe's bed room, I found this sash laying by the bed side; there is some blood on it. It is just now as when I found it.
Q. To Brown. Look at that sash; is that the sash that you have been speaking of? - Yes, this is the sash; it is the same, a blue stripe at the end of it, and blood at the end of it.
Q. To Taylor. Did you find any thing
Q. Did you apply it to any furniture in the house? - Yes, I did; the chair is now at the door that it fits.
Q. Who brought the chair away? - I did; and had it in my own custody ever since. It is an easy chair.
Q. It is an arm chair? - Yes, covered with cloth.
Q. Were you present when Miller found any of these papers? - I was in the garret, with the servant maid.
Q. Did you see him find these papers? - I did not; Miller and Carpmeal were together. (The chair brought into court and the peice of cloth fitted in to the bottom.)
Court. You are sure it is time same piece, and was bloody at the time? - Yes, the girl and Mr. Courtoy's son will prove the same.
Q. To Brown. Is that the chair that Mr. Courtoy was sitting in? - Yes, that is the chair that he was sitting in all the time.
Q. I believe you went, on the 15th of April, with the officers of Bow-street, to Mrs. Phipoe's? - I did. That is the same piece of canvas I found under a muss in a parlour chair. There was a great deal of blood on it.
Q. You live at your farther's house? - Yes.
Q. Do you recollect his coming home in the evening before the day that you went to Mrs. Phipoe? - Yes, very well; I see him when he came home, he went into the bed room. and he was tying some rags about his fingers.
Q. Did you see his hand the next day? - I did.
Q. Did it appear to have been cut? - Yes.
Court. What was cut? - The two last fingers.
Q. The little finger and the next finger? - Yes.
Q. Did you ever see Mrs. Phipoe write? - I never did.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, I have known her about five years.
Q. Have you ever seen her write? - No, she wrote to me.
Q. You have not seen her write? - No; I have received two notes, within four months, of her.
Q.After having received them, did she at any time acknowledge to you, that they were her writing? - No.
Q. To Brown. Can you write? - No.
Q. To Bague. Had you any conversation with the prisoner at the bar, in the month of April, and what day? - On Wednesday the 15th of April, she came to my house, between eleven and twelve, or thereabouts. I was not at home.
Q. Did you see her at any time in the course of the same day afterwards? - Yes, the very day, I see her at home, about half after twelve she shewed me a note of Mr. Courtoy; she gave it me, and I read it.
Q.Should you know it again? - Yes.(The note shewn him) That is the very note; she told me, she would be very glad if I could get that note discounted for her. I told her, it was not in my power, nor no body else would discount such a note as that, being two thousand pounds; after that, I read the note again, and I see it was dated about a fortnight back; and I told her, it would be better for her to keep that note, be
Q. Do you know Mr. Courtoy, the prosecutor? - Yes.
Q.Had you, at any time before this conversation in this day, my conversation with her on the subject of Mr. Caurtoy? - She told me, about two months ago, that she was going to settle her affairs with Mr. Courtoy, and Mr. Courtoy was to make the note with her, at one, two, or three months. I told her, I was very glad that they were going to settle. And she wished for me to give the form of a note. I told her, I could not write it properly in English, but I would give her the form of it; but she did not tell me what sum. She asked me what sort of a stamp? I told her there was from sixpence to two shillings.
Q. Do you know Courtoy's hand writing? - Yes, I do.
Q. Do you believe that to be his handwriting? - (The note shown him) Yes.
Mr. Fielding. About two months before. she told you that she was about to settle her affairs with Courtoy, and that he was to give her notes at particular dates? - Yes, at one, two, or three months, and she would be very glad if I would give her the form of a note.
Q. What did you understand by that? -
Mr. Shepherd. I object to that question.
Q. I believe you live as a servant with Mr. Courtoy? - Yes.
Q. Do you know Mrs. Phipoe? - I know her by sight, but no further; I have no connection with her.
Q. Do you remember Mr. Courtoy coming home on the day before Mrs. Phipoe was taken up? - I did he came home very much agitated, and very pained. The first thing I observed was his hand; his hand was tied up in his pocket handkerchief, wet, and full of blood.
Q. Did you afterwards see his fingers? - I see his fingers cut across; one very much-cut.
Mr. Fielding. A good deal of blood will run from a cut finger? - Yes; the handkerchief was all blood.
Q. I believe you are the keeper of the watch-house in Vine-street, near Piccadilly? - Yes.
Q. Did you see Mr. Courtoy on this evening? - Yes, Tuesday evening; the 15th of April.
Q. Did you hear of Mrs. Phipoe having been taken up after that? - No.
Q.What hour of the night was it he came to you? - Between eleven and twleve o'clock; I see his hand tied up, and he was in a great flurry. He could not make me understand what he wanted; he wanted to go to Knighrsbridge.
Court. Where were you? - In St. James's watch-house.
Mr. Shepherd now contended he might call Mr. Courtoy to prove other facts, though not to the question of the note. To which Mr. Fielding objected; which objection the court allowed.
Mr. Shepherd proposed reading those papers that were found in the house.
Q. To Miller. Is that one of the papers that you found in the house? (A paper shewn him) - Yes, it is, and those two also.(Read by the clerk.)
A letter addressed, Mr. Courtoy, Oxendon-street, Friday evening;
"Sir, I am greatly surprised I did not see you this morning, in consequence of a letter I wrote you yesterday evening, concerning Miss Dechare. I am pretty well now; therefore, depend upon it, if you do not call early to-morrow, about
Q.To Miller. These two papers produced st, how were they? - Wrapped up together, in the form of a letter, one with the over, sealed up; it was broke open by Mr. Flood, the magistrate.(Read by the clerk.)
Addressed, Mrs. Phipoe;
"I, John Courtoy, of Oxendon-street, in the parish of St. Martin's, hair-dresser, am held, and firmly bound, to Maria Theresa Phipoe , of Coventry street, in the parish of St. James's, in the country of Middlesex, spinster, in the penal sum of twenty thousand pounds."
This is a blank bond, except in the penal sum of twenty thousand pounds; and afterwards, "I bind myself to the payment of ten thousand pounds."
Mr. Shepherd to Bague. Look at that paper in which the blank bond is enclosed, you know Mr. Courtoy's hand writing? - I think it is Mr. Courtoy's hand-writing.
Q. Look at it. - No, I cannot say it is.
Q. Do you mean to state that you believe it is? - I cannot say it is
Q. Do you believe it is not? - I cannot say it is not.
Q.Is it like it? - Not in the least.
Mr. Fielding addressed the court, that in his opinion, the accomplice did not appear confirmed in a tittle of her evidence, therfore there was no case to go to the jury; on which account, he considered it to be unnecessary to ask her a single question in in the way of cross-examination. The court replied, the jury must be the judges, as they were to pass their belief on the evidence of the accomplice, and not him.
Mr. Fielding to Brown. You had lived with your mistress but five weeks before this happened? - Perhaps it may be two or three days above five weeks.
Q.Then you had not lived with her. six-weeks? - No.
Q. Did your mistress keep a good deal of company, or not? - No, not a great deal of company.
Q. What made you leave her? - I went to prison, and my mistress too. I come from prison here.
Q.Have you seen your mistress since you have been in prison? - No, I have not seen her since I came from Bow-street.
Q. You were in separate prisons? - -Yes.
Q.Have you seen Mr. Courtey? - No, I have seen him only at Bow-street.
Q. Had some talk with him? - No, not a word.
Q. Did he ever come to you in prison? - No.
Q.Nobody from him? - No.
Q.Were you kept on the prison allowance? - No, the governor of the place gave me money whenever I asked for it; and Mrs. Phipoe sent me a guinea.
Q. When you were taken up, and went to Bow-street, what did you think would become of you? - I did not know.
Q. Were you afraid of any thing happening to you? - No, was not.
Q. You were not conscious of doing any thing that was wrong? - No, I was not afraid.
Q. You say, you had been there six-weeks; no further intimacy with your mistress than during that six weeks? - It was not quite six weeks.
Q.I don't quarrel about a day, about five or six weeks, and not more. You let
Q. You let him out, and he said, good night, God bless you? - Yes, he did.
Q. Now we have the first and the last; now, little girl, what candles were alight this night? - Two brass candlesticks, covered with black silk; the candles in them candlesticks were alight in my mistress's bed room.
Q. How many more were alight? - The candle I followed up with my mistress up stairs.
Q. And down you came, I suppose you knew your way in the dark? - Yes, I could find my way down.
Q. Now, Mr. Crddle, had he any candle? - Yes, one.
Q. Now in the kitchen, had you any candle? - No, I had none there.
Q. Now you had two journies up and down stairs from the knocking? - Yes, I had.
Q. And you went into the room without any ceremony? - Yes; but the first time I did not hear the knocking.
Q. But when you went up stairs backward and forward, you went in at pleasure, there was no interruption? - I went in when mistress ordered and came out again.
Q. When Mr. Courtoy went up stairs, and saw these two pistols, you did not know they were loaded? - No.
Q. The knife you say was covered with black silk? - Yes, two of them.
Q. Then when you had seen this so, you came down, were not you frightened? - Yes, but when Mr. Courtoy came there before, Mrs. Phipoe had made very free with him.
Q. You thought it was comical, but you was not very much frightened? - No, I was not much frightened.
Q. This black silk about the candlesticks, and about the knives, they all appeared very comical, but you were not very much firghtened at them. However, you never went out of doors to get any assistance, or ask any body to come in? - No, I did not.
Q. All through this you was not at all alarmed, and when Courtoy went away at last, he said, God bless you, and you thought there was no harm? - Yes, I see him go away.
Q. And then you went to bed and slept hearty? - Yes.
Q. Now, I want to know how you get out of this fcrape, recollect where you put the candle, and by what light it was that you contrived to read that note? - I took it in my hand and looked at it, and went down stairs. I could not read it as I was coming down stairs, because I had no candle.
Q. Did you carry it to Mr. Caddle? - Yes, I did. I just gave a look at it as I went into the parlour.
Q. Can you read pretty well? - I am not much of a great scholar.
Q. You cannot write? - No.
Q. But you can read a little? - I can make out a little bit, no great matters.
Q. After all this was over that night, you and your mistress went to bed, and there was nothing more said about it? - Nothing at all.
Q. Were not you a great deal surprised the next day, when you were taken by these fellows to Bow-street? - Yes, very much surprised.
Q. All that had passed you thought comical, but it did not strike you at all to be dangerous; you only went in and out of the room where Mr. Courtoy and Mrs. Phipoe were, you went in once, and she sent you down for a pen, and she sent you down for another thing, and you
Q. Were the paper, pen, and ink, provided by you? - They were on the table when I went in.
Q. Then you never staid for any length of time to see what they were doing? - No.
Q. And they spoke French together the greatest part of the time? - Yes, they did.
Q. That is a sort of thing that you did not understand? - Yes, it was.
Q. Now, it is a very odd thing that there should be a little English in this, as to sending the girl out of the room, because it was not sit for her to know what they were going to do? - Yes, it was.
Q. You did not see Courtoy when he cut his finger? - No.
Q. How they came cut you don't know? - No.
Q. Being cut, of course there must be a good deal of blood get over the towels and napkins, and things that were there, and Mrs. Phipoe, being near she must have some on her? - Yes, I see it on her sash.
Q. But what was done by Mrs. Phipoe and Mr. Courtoy, you don't know? - I do not.
Q.Nor did you see what they were doing of, except as you described? - No, they were writing.
Q. But what was before the writing, or after the writing, you don't know as to their behaviour? - I do not.
Mr. Knowlys. Did you at any time, while Courtoy staid, see him with any thing by which he could cut himself? - No; nothing but a pen in his hand.
Mr. Fielding. But he made no complaint to you at all? - No, he did not.
Mr. Knowlys. Did you hear him cry or mourn? - Yes, he called out for mercy several times.
Mr. Fielding. But he made no complaint to you? - No, he said nothing about it.
Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.
Mr. Fielding addressed the court, that there was not evidence sufficient to go on a Jury, as this promissory note could not be the subject of a felony, it having not been proved to have ever been in the possession of Courtoy at any time; he was followed by Mr. Gardiner; but the Court over-ruled the objection.
GUILTY . (Aged 36.)
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
Mr. Gardiner moved for an arrest of judgment, because the indictment was informal, it saying that this offence was against the statute, when it ought to have said, against the statutes; because, this indictment was founded on more than one statute.
Judgment was respited.
I am an apprentice to Mr. Gibson, a linen-draper , in Bishopsgate-street . On Thursday last, the 14th of May, between eight and nine o'clock in the evening, these two prisoners came into the shop, and bought some check.
Q.Did you serve them any check? - No, another did. As they were going out, they stopped at a wooden horse, andSophia Warner by the apron, and asked her where she was going with the coat? She said she had got nothing, and I saw the coat under her apron which she had got. She wished to drop it, but I prevented her, by setting my knee against her's; and I brought her into the shop again with the petticoat underneath her apron, and my fellow apprentice, George Hoppy , and our porter, saw the petticoat drop from underneath her apron. I held up her petticoat, and suffered the petticoat to drop from her apron.
Q. Did you see it drop from her apron? - Yes, I did.
Q. Have you kept that petticoat ever since? - No, the constable took it with him, Thomas Sapwell , I have not seen the coat since. The other prisoner held up one of the pocket handkerchiefs in one hand, and she the other in full breadth, before the place where this petticoat hung, while they were at the horse.
Q. This petticoat hung on the horse I suppose? - Yes; and the handkerchiefs touched the petticoat as they hung, they both hung together, and as they were going out of the shop, Elizabeth Walker held out the handkerchief as far as it could reach, so it made a curtain, so that the prisoner could not be seen till she got out of doors. The handkerchiefs were pinned at the top, it was impossible to get them away, and they hung one from the other, from the top to the bottom of the horse. When they were both in the shop together again, Elizabeth Walker said, that she would swear that she see me bring the petticoat, and put it by her sister's side. The value of it is six shillings, the petticoat cost Mr. Gibson nine shillings, but it is rather out of condition.
Mr. Knapp. In the first place your shop is in Bishopsgate street? - Yes.
Q. And your master has a pretty large concern? - Yes.
Q. How many persons may he have in the shop? - A shop man, two apprentices, and a lad that carries out parcels.
Q. Walker came back again to the house? - Yes, she did.
Q. It was Warner you laid hold of? - Yes.
Q. You did not lay hold of Walker? - No, I did not.
Q. She might have gone away if she had chose it? - Yes, she might.
Q. Did she say any thing like this, will you take me? - No, I don't remember.
Q. Do you remember your answering to her, that you believed her to be an honest woman? - No, I said no such thing.
Q. How long was it before Walkes was taken into custody? - The next morning, Mr. Gibson that night was out of town.
Q. Where did you apprehend her? - I was not present.
- BROWN sworn.
Q. Are you a shopman? - No. I went home with some linen shirts that were made.
Q. Was that James Turner that you asked? - Yes. He went to the door, and I followed him. for I thought they had got nothing; when I came to the door I heard him ask Warner what she had got? and she said she had got nothing; she said, nothing; he said, you have got a a petticoat, and he turned her gown back, and under her apron there was a petticoat.
Q. Was it a quilted stuff petticoat? - Yes, it was Then he took hold of her petticoats altogether, and brought her into the shop; he let her go then, and the petticoat fell; I see it fall; it lay till the constable was brought; it was not picked up till he picked it up.
Q. Were you in the shop at the time? - Yes, I was. These women came into my master's shop, between eight and nine, they bought two yards of check, paid me two shillings and four-pence for it.
Q. Who bought the two yards, Warner or Walker? - Warner gave me the money; and as they were going out of the shop they stopped at the horse and looked at some pocket handkerchiefs, which they said they had got as good for ten-pence.
Q. Did Walker say any thing to that at all? - I don't know. A few minutes after that James Turner , who was behind the counter, he called out, halloo! and ran out of doors and brought in these two and the petticoat dropped from Warner's apron.
Q. Did you see it drop? - Yes.
Q. Who had that petticoat? - Warner had it then.
Q.Who took it up? - The constable.
Mr. Knapp. Warner was the person that bought the check, paid for it, and that the petticoat dropped from? - Yes; and Walker, when the petticoat dropped, said, this fellow brought the petticoat, and put it down by my sister's side.
Q. Are you a servant in that shop? - An apprentice.
Q. Did you see the women come in? - I did.
Q.Did they come together? - They did.
Q. What did you see of the transaction? - I see them purchase two yards of check, at fourteen-pence a yard.
Q.Who purchased the check? - Sophia Warner, to the best of my knowledge. Immediately after, when they had bought the check, they went out of the shop; as soon as they went out of the shop, James Turner went out after them, and brought Sophia Warner in, with the coat under her apron.
Q. Did you see her drop it? - I did. Elizabeth Walker , when it dropped, said, she would swear that James Turner brought the petticoat out of the shop, and put it under Sophia Warner 's apron. That is all I know of the transaction. I was engaged with customers at the time.
I produce the petticoat.
Turner. I can swear to its being my master's, and was on the horse at the time she was in the shop.
Prisoner Warner. Going out of the door I took the pocket handkerchief in my hand, and my sister said she thought they were no more than ten-pence or a shilling, for she bought the same for the same money; whether I knocked the petticoat off the horse I don't know; and whether I picked it up I can not hardly tell, I was so intoxicated in liquor, and I might carry it to the door to look at it, instead of taking it to the counter.
Prisoner Walker. I am entirely innocent as a child unborn.
Prisoner Warner. My sister is innocent of the whole transaction.
The prisoner Walker called five witnesses who gave her a good character; and Warner four witnesses who gave her also a good character.
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London jury before Mr. RECORDER.
270. JAMES CLARKE otherwise SHIERS was indicted for that he, on the 13th of April , feloniously did falsely make, forge and counterfeit, and did cause and procure to be falsely made, forged, and counterfeited; and did willingly act and assist in the false making, forging, and counterfeiting a certain order for payment of money, dated Chelmsford, 11th of April 1795, with the name of Edward Gepp thereto subscribed, and directed to Sir Richard Glyn , Knt. and Co. of London, bankers, and partners, for the payment of twenty-two pounds, to Mr. S. Birch, or bearer, at sight; with intention to defraud Sir Richard Carr Glyn , Charles Mills , and Henry Mittens .
A Second COUNT for uttering the same, knowing it to be forged, with the like intention.
Q. Did you keep it on the 13th of April last? - I did.
Q. Did you see the prisoner at the bar on that day? - I did; he came to my house between the hours of one and three; he asked me what he could have for dinner? I told him several things.
Q. In short he dined there? - Yes. I received a message presently after by my waiter.
Q. Did you go in consequence of that message to the prisoner? - I did. He produced me a draft on Sir Richard Glyn 's house, for twenty-two pounds, payable to bearer. He said, have you a porter you can send to get the cash for this draft? I told him I had. I took the draft; I brought it out and gave it to my waiter, Richard Judge.
Q. Have you seen it since? - Yes, at the Mansion House.
Q. Was that the same draft? - Yes.
RICHARD JUDGE sworn.
Q. I believe you was waiter to the last witness? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember your master giving you a draft? - Yes, between the hours of one and three. I immediately
Q.Was it the draft that you received from your master? - Yes.
Q.Did you see it afterwards at any time? - I see it at the Mansion House.
Q. Was that the same that you received of your master, that you saw at the Mansion House? - Yes, it was.
Q.You are porter to Mr. Guy? - Yes.
Q.Were you so on the 13th of April last? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember at any time receiving a draft from Judge? - Yes.
Q.Did you look at it? - No; I am no scholar. I took it to No.12, Birchin-lane.
Q. Was that the same draft Judge gave you? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember on the 13th of April last, the last witness bringing you a draft? - Yes. On his presenting the draft to me, I went into the counting house to Sir Richard Glyn ; it was between two and three o'clock, about a quarter before three.
Q. What was done in consequence? - The porter was apprehended
Q. Did you go with him to the house? - I did not.
Q.Who accompanied him to the house? - The marshalman.
Q. Mr. Gepp keeps cash at your house? - Yes, and has done several years.
Mr. Knowlys. Are there any other persons in the firm of that house except the three you have mentioned? - There are not.
Q. There are no persons, who, though they are not partners, are interested in the receipts of the business? - Not that I know of.
THOMAS PARROTT sworn.
On the 13th of April, Sir Richard Glyn came up to the Mansion House, he desired me to come to his house, and take porter; and then I went to the inn, and took the waiter and master, and prisoner at the bar.
Q.Where did you find the prisoner? - In the coffee room of the Bell and Crown inn, in Holbon.
Mr. Knowlys. You found the prisoner in this very place? - I did.
Q.What time was it you got there? - I suppose it may be about three o'clock.
Mr. Knowlys to Halifax. What time was it the draft was presented? - Between the hours of two and three.
Mr. Knowlys to Guy-How long do you think it was after the note was delivered to the porter, before he returned with it in the custody of this man? - I think it was an hour.
Q.Was it not more than an hour? - I don't think it was more. The prisoner at the bar seemed to think that he stopped.
Q.I want to know the exact time that he was absent? - I cannot say more than I have done.
Court. You had given this draft to your waiter and he gave it to the porter, and he was gone, and returned about the time you expected? - Yes, but I was in the coffee room; and the prisoner seemed uneasy about the porter staying; and I said, I dare say he would bring the money, it was a man that I could trust; and he said, bring me my bill, and I will call again for the change; and he was in the act of preparing to when the porter came in; he had paid his bill to the waiter,
Q. To Parrott. You took them all to the Mansion House? - Yes. I wanted them all to get into a coach; I took the prisoner in a coach; the master and waiter desired to walk, and they did.
- HURLOCK sworn.
Q. I believe you are agent to Mr. Gepp, that lives at Chelmsford? - I am. I have been accustomed to his hand writing for three or four years, corresponding with him and his agent.
Q.(The bill shewn him) Do you believe this to be Mr. Gepp's signature? - I do not.(Read by the clerk of the court.)
Mr. Const to Halifax. You said that Mr. Gepp kept cash at your house many years? you know his hand writing? - Yes. There has been some mistakes in Mr. Gepp's account before, and that was the reason of its being found out.
Q. To Guy. Look at that note, is that the same that you received of the prisoner? - It is.
Mr. Knowlys to Halifax. Was the balance, at the time this note was presented, in Mr. Gepp's favour or otherwise? - Taking the forged drafts out of the account it was in his favour.
Q.Had you then, or have you since given him credit for these notes, which he says were improperly obtained? - I don't know that we have at all yet.
Q.Then at that time, as the account stood in your book, the balance was against Mr. Gepp? - I know very little of the accounts.
Q. Did you see his accounts? - I have not seen it yet.
Q. Is there any person here that has seen it? - No, there is no clerk here but myself.
Court. Do you know whether this draft would have been paid, supposing the note to be good? - It would.
Mr. Knowlys took an objection in arrest of judgment, inasmuch as the indictment stated, that this person made a certain forged order for money, purporting to be directed to Sir Richard Carr Glyn,&c. the tenor of which is as follows. To Sir Richard Glyn , the purp-rt and the tenor not agreeing, but the court thought it did not avail.
Mr. Knowlys to Halifax. Sir Richard Glyn is not the present proprietor? - He is dead.
Prisoner. My lord and gentlemen of the jury, I now stand before you in a most awful and distressing situation, and have involved in my misery a dearly beloved wife, with five young children, by giving credit to a person, which I supposed an honest man On Monday, the 13th of April last, a person, who said his name was Birch, and lived at, or near Uxbridge, he bought goods at my shop, and asked me to change a banker's bill, I told him I had not cash enough to change it, but possibly might be able in the course of the day. This was in the morning; he then said he would leave it with me, and call for the change in the afternoon, but desired to have the goods, as he wanted to send them down into the country; and he consented to leave the draft, I had every reason to believe it was good, and therefore consented for him to take the goods. Having some business in Holborn, I went to the Bell and Crown there, and asked the landlord if he had any body to send into the city, to get cash for it. The man, after waiting a length of time returned, I found the man when he returned had been stopped, and consequently I was apprehended. I have always borne a
The prisoner called one witness, who gave him a good character.
GUILTY . Death . (Aged 50.)
Recommended to mercy by the jury, merely excited by compassion of his statement of the distresses of his family.
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
WILLIAM SMITH sworn.
Q. What are you a recruit? - Yes. I belong to the Scotch fencibles , belonging to colonel Dunbar.
Q. What is the prisoner? - A labourer . After I received my bounty, I went home to Knightsbridge where I used to lodge, and went to a gentleman's house, and asked him to let me have a night's lodging, and he told me yes, I might have a lodging.
Q.What is the landlord's name, John wharton? - Yes.
Q.Did you all three lay in the same room? - No, the landlord and me, and Joseph Carter were there, and I told Joseph Carter that I was going to sleep with him, and I told the landlord to fetch up half a pint of gin, and part of the gin was drank, and Joseph Carter got into bed first; before I got to lay down in bed, I took and put my hand in my pocket, and pulled out a guinea and some silver to shew it the landlord.
Q. Did you give it the landlord? - No.
Q. How came you to shew it the landlord? - Because he should see that I had such money in my pocket,
Q. Did you suspect the prisoner? - No, I did not suspect him at all. I took it out when I paid for the half pint of gin.
Q. For what purpose? - No purpose at all.
Q.Either you suspected the prisoner, or you had a foreknowledge of what would happen? - No such a thing; I had no reason at all for shewing him. When I paid for the gin I shewed him the money in my hand.
Q. What did you pay for the lodging? - I paid nothing at all for my lodging.
Q. Was he to charge you any thing? - No.
Q. What happened to you when you went to bed? - I took and put the money again into my pocket, and took hold of the pillow in my right hand, and laid my breeches under my pillow. In the morning I went to get up, and I found my breeches were moved from where I put them, part of them drawed out from under the pillow, and I searched my pockets, and I found my guines and some silver, as I thought, gone. I was not exact as to the silver.
Q. You found it gone before you put your breeches on? - Yes.
Q.What did you shew your landlord the over night? - I did not count the money at all, no otherwise, than I know there were some silver; I believe I had a guinea, and about eight or nine shillings in silver.
Q. Was it a guinea and twelve shil
Q. Were you sober? - I was not in liquor, I was sensible what I did.
Q. How many drams had you that day? - That I cannot tell, not many.
Q. Cannot you guess at it? - Not many. I was steady. I know what I did, I was not out of my senses. I had been drinking great part of the day.
Q. What time did you begin? - In the morning.
Q. What o'clock was it you took this last dram? - Eleven almost at night. When I came down stairs, I told the landlord that I lost such and such money.
Q. Did you find your money again? - No, I did not.
Q. Did any body else? - Yes.
Q. You are the landlord of this house? - I am.
Q. In the first place was Smith sober? - He was a little disguised, but he was very sensible.
Q. He was not dead drunk? - He was not. The man was drinking a little to be sure.
Q. But he was sensible to call for more gin at your house. Was the other man sober? - Yes, solid sober. I lighted them to bed, and I left one candle in the room for the half pint of gin with the other, and when I came up I handed them a glass of gin a piece, and drank one myself; Smith had got his breeches off, and he got into bed, and he pulls out his money, and turns over a guinea and some silver, which he had in his hand. He took all his money out of his pocket to pay me the half pint, one sixpence, and he put it all into his pocket again.
Q. He did not offer it to you to keep for him at all? - Not at all. When they were both in the room, I see Smith take his breeches, and put them under the bolster and gets into bed himself; in three or four minutes Carter gets into bed likewise by the side of him, I staid to see them both in bed. Then I took the candle and wished them good night, and went to bed to my wife immediately. In the morning I got up at five, according as I do the year round; Smith got up and came down, having missed this guinea, and he was asking me if I know any thing about it; while he was asking me, the prisoner came down directly. I said to Carter, do you know any thing of Smith's guinea? and he says, no; and knowing myself there was no other person in the room, I could think nobody else had got the guine but Carter; accordingly Carter still denied. I thought the best way was to get the constable, and take charge of Carter, and take him before a magistrate. The constable came up, and we gave him charge, Smith and me together, and we persuaded him always to produce the money. We taxes him to Queen's-square, Westminster, and he was committed for prison, and after that he owned where the money was, that was after he got his mittimus to go to prison.
I am the man that was sent to fetch the money where it was hid. I went to Mr. Wharton's house, at Knightsbridge, and went up two pair of stairs, and looked into a little bed, and there I found a guinea, and three shillings and sixpence, loose in the bed. Not in the bed in they slept in.
Q. Were there two beds in that room? - Yes.
Q. How it came there you don't know of your own knowledge? - I do not.
I am a constable of that part. I was sent for to take charge of this man, and take him to Queen's-square, and after he had his examination, I took him to Bridewell.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Q. I take it for granted you are a baker ? - Yes. No. 10, Tyson-street, Bethnal-green.
Q.What is the prisoner? - He is a journeyman to another baker . I found some bread in his basket. I don't know who put it there, my principal witness has not come forward; it was all new bread.
I see Mr. Williams accost the prisoner at the bar, and said that he had got his bread in his basket, which the prisoner denied that he had, in my presence, and the constable was called, and took him into custody. I understand that bakers have always a private mark.
Williams. The private mark on the half peck loaves, was an iron up set one side of the oven, to keep the bread from being too crusty.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
273. WILLIAM PEARCE and ROBERT DAVIS were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 8th of May , a hempen sack, value 2s. and two bushels of coals, value 3s. the goods of Richard Wright , Samuel Wolfe , and Lewis Wolfe .
RICHARD WRIGHT sworn.
Q. Who are your partners? - Samuel Wolfe, and Lewis Wolfe. I am unacquainted with the circumstances of this robbery.
Q. What are you? - A tripe-dresser, in Spicer-street, Mile-end New-town. I was coming down Red Lion-street, Whitechapel , on Friday the 8th; I had been to my coal-merchant, and coming down there, I saw a waggon load of coals standing in Whitechapel. I saw one of the prisoners at the bar (Davis) with a sack of coals on his back, some distance from the waggon. I was on horseback. I thought it was uncustomary to see them carry coals from the waggon, to stop in Whitechapel, when there was such an open street to draw up as Red Lion-street is. I stopped to see where he went to; I see him go up the second turning in Red Lion-street; the name of the street I hear is Buckle-street, I don't positively know. I then went forward into Whitechapel, and did not see the prisoner any more till I see him on the waggon, placing the empty sack on the waggon, under a coat that was in the waggon. I then stopped in Whitechapel, and see the waggon go on; they went on a considerable distance, and they stopped at a public house; the two men did with the waggon. They went into the house; they came out of the house, and drove on towards Whitechapel church; I see money pass between them, but what, I did not know. I then stopped at Mr. - , a cheesemonger, the corner of Osborne-street. I asked him to let me leave my horse there (I told him the circumstance) and I would follow the waggon, to see where it was going I followed the waggon till it went to a Mr. Burten wood, and embosser, in Mile-end New Town. I then stopped till I was certain they were going to his house, and I went in, and informed Mr. Burtenwood of it. After I had informed Mr. Burtenwood of it, I know no more of my own knowledge.
Mr. Alley. You say, at the time you observed this man, he was at some distance from the waggon? - He was.
Q. You seem to be very circumstantial, and very exact; I ask you, how you know they were coals? - I see them at the top of the mouth of the sack, as big as my hat
Q. Then I take it for granted that the top of the sack was open? - It was.
Q. Was it not possible, that they may be a mixture of coals and cinders? - I will venture to swear, that what I saw were coals.
Q. What do you get by coming forward on this occasion? - Nothing.
Court. Whose name was on the cart? - Wright and Wolfe.
Jury. Did you know the prosecutor before? - No, nor the person where the coals were going to.
Mr. Alley. Were you by at the time that these coals were delivered? - No, I was not.
Q. Do you know how many sacks of coals were delivered to this gentleman's house? - I cannot swear that, to my own knowledge.
Q. What are you? - An embosser, in Mile-end New Town. I work for Mr. Burtenwood and Mr. Yarrow. Mr. Burtenwood carries on trade for Mr. Yarrow; Mr. Burtenwood ordered me, the 8th of May, to go to the waggon, and look under a coat, and there I should find an empty sack. I jumped up into the waggon, and took the sack down. I said to the prisoners, for this sack there is an information against you; so I took the sack down, and kept it separate, while the rest of the sacks were shaking, and after it was shaked, I counted the red that were shook, which were four and thirty.
Q. Independent of this one? - Yes. They were emptied in our yard, after the coals were emptied; I counted the sacks over three different times, to know how many there were. I asked the man for the note. He said, he had none; so my master came out, and he gave charge of him.
Court to Wright. Have you no other evidence? - No.
Jury to Wright. Were they, or were they not measured by a coal meter? - They were not; they were what we call in the pool.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
274. ANN SMITH , and ELIZABETH THOMPSON were indicted for feloniously making an assault, on the King's highway, on Thomas Goodyer , on the 14th of May , putting him in fear, and feloniously taking from his person, and against his will, a silver watch, value 1l. 2s. a steel watch chain, value 2d. a metal seal, value 1d. a steel seal, value 1d. a steel watch key, value 1d. and one shilling in money, the goods, chattels, and monies of the said Thomas Goodyer .
I am a cordwainer ; sometimes I work for myself, and sometimes for a master. I was robbed in a court near Smock-alley, in Petticoat lane , the 14th of May, Wednesday night, half after eleven. I was as sober as I am now. There were three girls at the end of the court, and they dragged me up by main force; I was walking along to my lodging.
Q.What is the name of the court? - Dean's court; I was coming out of Smock-alley, and going along Petticoat-lane.
Q.Who were the girls that dragged you into the court? - These two, and another; there were three of them. It was not quite day light.
Q.Were the lamps lighted? - Yes. They dragged me while they got to the top of the court; and I said, I will not have any thing to do with you; I would rather give you sixpence or a shilling, than have any thing to do with you. I pulls a shilling out of my waistcoat pocket, and my watch, to see what o'clock it was, and one of them immediately snatched my watch.
Q. Was that before you was dragged up the court, or after? - After.
Q. Were you dragged up by force? - Yes.
Q. Did they carry you into any house? - No.
Jury. Was the court a thoroughfare? - No, it was no thoroughfare.
Court. Did you try to get away? - Yes, I did, but I could not. One snatched the shilling, and the other the watch. The biggest snatched the shilling,(Thompson,) and the least my watch,(Smith.)
Q.Where was this shilling at the time? - In my hand. I told them, I would give them that, to have nothing to do with them.
Q. Was that the reason that you put the shilling in your hand? - Yes.
Q. Where was this watch? - I had it just in my hand, out of my pocket.
Q. What did they do when these things were snatched away? - They gave me a push, to push me down, but I did not fall; I catched my arm against a door post.
Q. Was that before or after they took your watch? - After.
Q. When they made their snatch of the shilling and watch, was it done in a moment, or did you make any resistance? - It was done in a moment.
Q.There was no pulling for it? - No.
Q. They were suddenly jerked out of your hand? - Yes.
Q. Had they hold of your person at the time they took your money and watch? - No.
Q. But they laid hold of you when they dragged you up the court? - Yes.
Q. How soon did they get this money from you after they dragged you up the court? - Directly.
Q.Had they loosed hold of you? - Yes, when I got the things out of my pocket.
Q. How long had they loosed hold of you? - Not five minutes.
Q. Then, for five minutes, they had not their hands on you before they took your money? - No.
Q. What did you do after they had taken your watch and money? - They told me I might think myself well off that I did not get a black eye or two.
Q. What became of them? - I don't know, they were gone before I could look after them. I went out of the court, and could not find any thing of them, and I could not be easy, and I went in again directly, and I went up the court to the top. On my return I met three men and I durst not look at them; I thought I might get the worst of it, so I made the best way out of the court again, and I went into the court again, and I got hold of the girl that got my shilling and she flew into a place, and I got after her, and got hold of her, and brought her to the light. I thought it had been her that had got my watch. When I brought her to the light, I said, let me look at your face, and see whether it is you that has got my watch, or you that has got my shilling; and I said, O it is you that has got my shilling. Where is the person that has got my watch? Says she, I don't know; what I have got I mean to keep. I says, if you will but tell me where the girl is that has got the watch, I don't care. Says she, I don't know nothing of her. So I let her go, and came out of the court, and I went home to my lodging. I lodge in Cockhill, Bishopsgate. I got up the next morning, and there was a young man that lodges in the same room, that advised me what to do; and we went after the girls, and got them the next day.
Q. Did you see them the next day? - Not till night; I was in company with the officers. I had often seen them before; they were in the court in custody of the officers.
Q. Are you perfectly sure that they were the same girls? - Yes.
Q. At the time you was robbed, were you near a lamp? - Yes.
Q.When the officers took them, were the girls searched? - Yes, the biggest, Thompson.
Q. Was any thing found on her? - No. The other girl was not searched. The watch they had found, and Mr. Bare and I went to a place, and there we got it.
Q. The money has never been found, I suppose? - No.
Q. When did you see your watch? - I see it the Friday night that we took the girls up, about half after eight.
Q. Did you know your watch again? - Yes, I can tell the number, 39267, maker's name, Richards.
Jury. In what position were you pushed up the court? - One got hold of my collar, on one side, and another on the other, and a third behind me.
Q. Had you known the girls before? - - I live close by them.
Q. Had you visited them at their apartment, or only known them by sight? - Seeing them walking about.
Q. Had you ever spoke to them, or had any intimacy with them? - Never in my life.
I am a pawnbroker, servant to Mr. Davis, Bishopsgate-street, the corner of Widegate-street.
Q. How far is that from Petticoat-lane a very little distance. It was a man that pledged the watch, on Friday last, the 15th of May, between the hours of eleven and one, in the name of William Long, Fashion-street. (Produced.)
Prosecutor. It is my watch, chain, seal, and key.
I am an officer belonging to the police, Whitechapel. The prosecutor came to me, in company with Mr. Bare, and said, that he had been robbed; and we went down to Gillams-court, and see the girls. We see the short one first (Smith) and afterwards the other, at a public house door, (Thompson.) I searched them both, and they had nothing concerning the robbery, only some duplicates of their own things.
Q. Were you present with Harrison? - Yes.
Q. I believe you went about the watch? - Yes, Friday night, after the girls were taken. Harrison carried the girls to the office, and I went with the prosecutor to the pawnbroker.
Q. Did you go to the pawnbroker's from the declaration of the girls? - No.
Q. Did you find the watch there? - Yes; the prosecutor said, that there was a hunting match on the face.
Prisoner Thompson. We are both innocent of it, and Mr. Harrison and Mr. Bare knows the same; they know we are not the girls that did the robbery.
Prisoner Smith. At the time that this robbery was done, I was in the public house; I always worked hard for my living; Harrison knows that they have been after the two girls that did do it.
Both not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
276. ALICE BURROUGHS and AMELIA EVANS were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 30th of April , four womens cotton gowns value 1l. 10s. a black silk cloak, value 1l. four womens linen shifts, value 8s. a dimity petticoat, value 3s. a stuff petticoat, value 2s. two pair of cotton stockings, value 2s. two linen aprons, value 3s. a check linen apron, value 1s. a pair of leather shoes, value 1s. a linen handkerchief, value 1s. 6d. a cotton shawl, value 1s. 6d. and one pound three shillings in monies numbered, the property of Lucy Stockford , in the dwelling house of the said Alice and Amelia .
Q.Are you a single woman ? - Yes; I am a servant to Mr. Winkes, the Crown, in Oxford-street. I came to town on the 30th of April. When I came into the town I went into a public house, and asked them if they could let me sleep there for three or four days till I got a place?
Q. Did you go to the Crown when you came into town? - No; afterwards I went to the public house, to ask for a lodging, and they could not let me have any, and I went up and down two or three streets, and I met an old woman, and I thought she could recommend me to a lodging that was creditable.
Q. Where were you robbed? - In Union-street, in a house where I went for a lodging; my things were in a trunk, and immediately as I went in they took my trunk out of my apron.
Q.Did you go into a house to ask for a lodging? - Yes, in Union-street ; I asked them if they could let me sleep there? and they said they could; and I sat down in a chair, and they asked for my trunk; and I said I should wish to have that to bed with me, where I slept. I had got it in my lap as I sat down, and they took it from me, and said they would take care of it.
Q. Who were the persons that did it? - Them two persons at the bar, I am very positive.
Q. Did you permit them to take it? - No; I told them I would rather keep it myself, and they took it away by force. They kept me locked in the little parlour all night.
Q. Was that the first room where you went in? - Yes. After they had taken my trunk, and gone about half an hour, they came to me again, and I had my red clock on, and they took my red cloak up, and asked me why I wore a red cloak? and I said, I did not care what I wore, so I had it honest; and they went away and came in again in about half an hour, and brought three gentlemen with them; and they asked me whether I was a country girl? and I told them yes; they chucked me under the chin, and said I was a pretty country girl. I was locked in all night; about seven o'clock in the evening they came to me again, and asked me whether I wanted any breakfast? I said I had trouble enough, I did not want any breakfast, and they went away, and locked me in, and by force I pulled it open, the parlour door, and I went to the other door, and the key was in, and whether it was locked or bolted I don't know, I got out and ran away, and I ran as far as St. James's Park, where I met an old woman, and desired her to shew me the way, and I went to dinner with her.
Q. When did you go back for your trunk? - The next morning.
Q. Is that woman here? - No, she is not. The next day I went for my trunk; she went with me down to Union-street, walking down the street I looked up at the window, and I see the young girl up at the window, and I said, that is the young woman that took my trunk and clothes; it was the tallest one (Burrough's.)
Q.Was that the window of the same house where your trunk and you had been? - Yes; I goes and knocks at the door, and the young woman (Burroughs) came to me; I asked her if she pleased to let me have my trunk and clothes? and she said she had not got them; and the landlady came and asked me to walk in, and I refused to go in; I went away from the house, and went to a public house; and asked them if they could tell me where a constable lived? and they recommended me, and I went to the office; I found the constable, and went back to the house.
Q. And the constable searched the house where you found them? - Yes.
Q. Did you find your things there? - No, there was no such thing in the house.
Q. The trunk is not found, not the things since? - No. When the constable was in the parlour with me, there was a black beaver hat of theirs; and I held it up in the young woman's face, and I says to the young woman (the shortest) had not you this black beaver hat with white ribbons on, when you came to take my clothes? yes, she said, she had the constable took them in custody, and took them to the justice.
Q. When that conversation passed about the hat, was the tall one by? - Yes. The constable was forced to pay my expences, they took every thing I had, I had three and twenty shillings in the trunk, all in silver.
Q. Were all the articles in the indictment in the trunk? - Yes.
Q. Was this trunk locked at the time they took it from you? - Yes, it was.
Q. Did they open it in your presence? - No, one took hold of one end, and the other of the other, and they were gone as much as half an hour.
Q. Did they ever ask you for the key? - No.
Q. The room you think was their own room? - Yes, it was.
Q. What part of the country did you come from at this time? - From Dunstew, in Oxfordshire.
Q. How did you get this money, and all these things? - I was a servant, and I came away before Christmas, and I went a washing for my money; my friends gave me a good many; my mother was brought up with lady Chamberlain, and they gave me a good many at Dunstew.
Q.What was your object for coming to town? - I ran away from my friends because I had been out of place so long.
Q. You have got into place since you have come to town? - Yes.
Q. Have you been ever since in place? - Yes, at this Crown.
Mr. Knowlys. You was examined at the justice's about this? - Yes.
Q. Are you sure you came to town the 30th of April? - No, the 29th of April I came to town.
Q. Then all the rest that you have said is as true as this, that you came to town on the 29th of April? How came you to tell my lord is was the 30th? - It was the 30th that I took the girls.
Q. Now you was examined before the justice a day or two after you were robbed? - Yes.
Q. This is your examination? - It is.
Q. You can write? - Yes.
Q. This is your hand writing? (The examination shewn her) - Yes.
Q. Did you attend to it when it was read to you? - I did.
Q. The examination says it was the 27th. When did you leave your friends? - About sixteen or seventeen days before I came into town, I will not say to one day or two.
Q. Now I tell you before I go any further, that some friends of these poor unfortunate women, have been down to your own mother. Do you now swear positively that about sixteen or seventeen days before you came to town you left your mother at Dunstew, in Oxfordshire? - Yes, I left my mother and father.
Q. You are sure of that? - Yes.
Q. Where were you for sixteen or seventeen days before you got to town? - I sleeped at the lodging houses coming on the road.
Q. How far is Dunstew from London? - It is eight miles from Woodstock.
Q. How much money had you when you set off? - I had six and twenty shillings in silver when I set off, and two or three shillings in halfpence. I walked two days and had not a bit in my mouth, and only paid three pence for my lodging.
Q. Do you remember any places that you came through? - I came through High Wycomb.
Q. You went before the justice almost immediately as you came to town. Did not you say before the justice that you had one lodging at a chandler's shop? - Yes.
Q. Do you know their names? - No.
Q. Do you know what town it was? - I did not.
Q. There are coaches and waggons go through Dunstew? - No.
Q. You never attempted to get a list or saw a waggon on the road? - Yes; one day I rode in a butcher's cart for about five miles, and I did not pay them any thing.
Q. The waggon or coach would have soon brought you to town? - I had no money. I thought perhaps I should be out of money before I got in place; and if I had come in the waggon or coach, I must have supped and done as they did.
Q. There is no waggon or coach comes through Dunstew nor Woodstock? - Yes, there is Mr. Burridge's waggon that belongs to Woodstock; but no one comes through my town.
Q. To what town did you go to from Hemson? - I don't know what it was.
Mr. Knowlys. I thought a little while ago that you did not remember any place you came through. What time did you get to London? - I got into town the 29th of April, between five and six.
Q. You never swore any otherwise? - No.
Q. What day of the week was it that you got to town? - Wednesday, I think it was.
Q. Was it the day after you was robbed that you went to the justice, or the day after that? - The next day.
Q. Of course you know the day of the week? - I came in on Wednesday, and I went on Thursday before the justice.
Q. That you are sure of? - Yes.
Q. Then it could not be Monday that you was robbed? - No. I think it was Wednesday that I came in, about five o'clock.
Q. And you are sure it was the day before you came to the justice. After you got out of this house, you met with a woman that was kind enough to give you a dinner and refreshment. How long did you stay at this woman's house? - After I had my dinner I staid along with her.
Q. About what hour did you get your dinner? - About one o'clock.
Q. How long did you stay with her after? - About an hour. I don't know the name of the woman; she is a music maker's wife, who lives in Carpenter's-street, near St. John's Church, Westminster; I should know the name if I was to hear it.
Q. She was kind enough to go and find out these people that had robbed you? - Yes.
Q. This woman was with you when you found out these people? - Yes.
Q. This music maker's wife was examined before the justice? - Yes, she was; she went with me to the justice.
Q. Was she examined like you? - No, she was not examined like me.
Q. Did you tell the justice that was the lady that went with you? - Yes; and the justice said he would advise the lady to go with me the next time.
Q. Did you go home with that lady after you went before the justice? - Yes. I slept there that night, and the next day I went to my service.
Q. Did she come with you here? - No, I think she is out of town.
Q. How came you not to bring her with you? - The gentleman that was at the office told her she would be of no service.
Q. Did she go with you to the grand jury? - No, she went up the day before to the office, and they told her she had no occasion to attend.
Q. Now, my girl, what time did you go to this house where these two women robbed you? - Between five and six in the evening.
Q. What part of the town did you come to when you came into town? - I came in at Oxford-road.
Q. You say you was shewn the house. When you went into the house, did you see the two people directly? - One of them opened the door, and the other stood by, the little one opened the door.
Q. Who told you they took in lodgings? - A woman that was wheeling a wheel-barrow in the street with oranges. As soon as I got in, they locked the door on me, and then I went into a little parlour, on the right hand, with a small bed in.
Q. In which room did they lock you in? - Not in the bed room.
Q. Then you made no noise at all? - No. I thought at first when I came, they were not such girls as I found they were, till they took my red cloak up.
Q.What sort of girls did you think they were? - Girls of the town; because I know by the noise up stairs that there were several gentlemen in the house, and there were several more young women, but they did not make or meddle with me; I was not near them to speak to them; I only see them when I first went in.
Q. Did not you knock at the parlour door, or scream out? - No.
Q. It was light, was it not? - Yes, it was very light when I first went in.
Q. You could see the people pass in the street? - The curtains were drawn, and the windows were very dirty; there were two panes above that were open, the upper part of the window. I was not used to curtains nor to sash windows; the curtains were fixed along both of them; one curtain came from the top of the ceiling, and the other only half way of the window.
Q. Then you could see over the other curtain? - The windows are very high.
Jury. They are very high windows in Vine-street.
Mr. Knowlys. Was the curtain so placed that you could see over the window? - I could see nothing but the houses facing.
Q.Then you did not see these persons for half an hour; when they came in did you ask them to let you go? - The second time, when they came in they asked me whether I would have something to eat, whether I would have some wine? I told them I never drank any wine. They went to the glass beauset, and brought a wine bottle out, and said they should be with me presently again. The fourth time they came in, there came four gentlemen with them, with blue clothes turned up with red, and cockades, and one with a spangled waistcoat.
Q. Did you tell these gentlemen that they had taken your box - No, I never made any complaint at all. The gentlemen laughed.
Q. Did the gentlemen see them lock you in? - No, they did not; they went into the bed room.
Q. Did all the four gentlemen go into the bed room with these two girls - Yes, for about five minutes.
Q. Now, when these girls came in with the four gentlemen, did they lock the door then? - Yes; and the two young women went into the bed room with the gentlemen.
Q.Then when these four gentlemen amused themselves with these two ladies, you might have got out? - No, they took the key out of the little parlour door. I was frightened to death.
Q. Did the gentlemen say, it is very odd that you lock us all in? - No, they did not make any observation on that at all.
Q. And you did not say, pray, sir, why do these girls lock me in? - No; they frightened me to death.
Q. Then you cried very much? - I did, after they went out of the room.
Q. How came you to leave off crying while these gentlemen came into the room? - I had been crying so long I could not cry any longer.
Q. And then the moment these gentlemen left the room, you began crying again? - Yes.
Q. Pray, was there a fire in the room? - There was a fire place, and coals on, but no fire in.
Q. How came the gentlemen to see you? - The young women opened the door and made their obedience to the gentlemen, and asked them if they would please to walk in and the first man that came in, he said you are a country girl, are you? and I said, yes; and the other man in the spangled waistcoat chucked me under my chin, and said, I was a pretty country girl.
Q. There were six persons went into this room, I thought you said it was only big enough to hold one person? - No, I said the bed was big enough only to hold one person.
Q.How did they get out? - They returned through my parlour.
Q. Did you make any offer to go out when these people were going out? - No, the girls told me they should be back with me presently.
Q. Were you crying when the girls came back again? - I had been crying while they were in the little room. I held my head down on the mahogany table when they came out.
Q. You heard the watchman go by? - Yes, I heard the watchman.
Q. I dare say you was too frightened to sleep? - No, I laid my head down on the mahogany table, and slept about a quarter of the night.
Q. What time did these young women get up in the morning? - They came to me about seven o'clock, I don't think they had been to bed, there were no beds in the house but sofa's, when I went to search the house, I knew that.
Q.Were they making a noise all night? - There was a very great noise one part of the night.
Q.How were these people employing themselves; where were the gentlemen? - The gentlemen were with them I dare say, I heard them go up, but I never heard them come down. About seven o'clock they came to me, and asked me if I wanted any breakfast, and I told them I was in trouble enough, I wanted no breakfast, and they gave themselves a snatch out, and then I got up, and pulled the door open by force.
Q. Had you the curiosity to try whether you could open the door all the time you was confined? - No, I never did.
Q. When you got out, what time of the morning do you think it was? - Between seven and eight o'clock in the morning.
Q. Did you speak to any body in the street? - No, only to a woman that had got tin kettles on her back with milk in.
Q. How far from this house? - About three or four streets.
Q. Did you make any complaint as you went along? - No, not till I came to this woman.
Q. Where was it you made your first complaint? - There is a little place where soldiers stand in with their horses. I was standing under, and this gentlewoman came to me.
Q. Were you in any other room that night? - No, only that back parlour.
I am an officer at the police office, in Marlborough-street.
Mr. Knowlys to Stockford. The music seller's wife was with you till you got to the justice, then she heard what you said about the hat, and yet the justice told her it was not necessary for to attend? - No, it was a gentleman at the office. The justice told her it was necessary.
Kennedy. About the 29th or 28th of last month, I am not positive which; the prisoner came to the office, and described the way as she has related before
Q. Do you remember the day of the week? - No, nor the day of the month for certain. We went with her by her directions to Union-street, just behind Middlesex Hospital, No. 46.
Q. Was the music seller's wife with you? - Yes, I don't know her name. When I went to the door, the prosecutor went first, and pointed to this tall girl and said, that is one of the girls that took my box; that was Burroughs, she was at the door; the street door was open, we pointed to her then, I took them both in to custody, and searched all the house for the property. There was a black hat laying on a sofa with a broad white ribbon round it, she pointed to the little girl and said, she had on that hat when she robbed her of her trunk. The girl did not deny any thing about the hat, she said there were more black hats than one with white ribbons, or something of that.
Q. Can you say with certainly, that that was the answer? - Why yes, I think it was.
Q. Suppose any person had given a different account about this hat, would you venture to say that they had swore false? - Yes, I should rather think so.
Q. Then you do not mean to swear positively? - No. We found none of the property.
Mr. Knowlys. These girls had two examinations? - I think so.
Q. Do you recollect the day of the week that the first examination took place? - I think it was the 27th or 28th, But I cannot be positive.
Q. What was the day of the week that they were fully committed? - I think it was on a Thursday.
Court. Was the first examination the day the girls were taken up? - Yes; there were two examinations two or three days between each.
Jury. Did any conversation pass between you and the prisoners in Union-street? - We asked where the property was, and they denied it.
Mr. Knowlys. I take it for granted that you used your usual vigilance in searching every where that could lead to a discovery? - Yes, I did.
Q. Have you found trunk, articles, or duplicates that could lead to the least discovery? - Nothing at all; I found duplicates of their own property.
Q. I believe it is the corner house? - I think it is the very next house to the corner.
Q. There are a good many people passing by in an afternoon? - There are a good many people passing.
Q. This window is quite close to the street? - There is only rails between the window and the pavement
Prisoner Burroughs. On five o'clock on Tuesday evening, I was sitting in the parlour window, I see this woman and another as if looking for a place; and I went and opened the door, and she asked me if there were any more girls in the house? I said yes, and I asked what was the matter, and she said she had left a trunk the night before with somebody, and she wanted to speak to the same person; and I said if she left a trunk there she would undoubtedly have it, and I fetched the landlord to the door, and he said she had better come in. or else go and get a warrant, and have the house searched.
Prisoner Evans. I never see the woman before the Tuesday, and then my landlord told her to get the officer, and search the house, which she did. I never saw the woman before; she is a stranger to me.
Q. I believe you are related to one of the prisoners? - I am.
Q.Then I believe I cannot examine you.
I am a taylor by trade. On the 27th of April I called on this young woman, Amelia Evans, and dined with her; I lodged at that time at No. 31, in Well's-street. I am at the Tower now, I am a journeyman.
Q. How long was it before the girl was taken up? - She was taken up on Tuesday, I was with her on Monday till nine o'clock, not absent from her.
Q.What part of the house did she inhabit? - Two parlours, the front and back.
Q. Look at that young woman who has been examined; did you see that young woman? - I never see her before the Thursday.
Q.Were you at the magistrate's on the Thursday? - Yes, I see her there; it was the second examination, I was not there at the first.
Q. Did you hear her give her examination before the justice? - I did.
Q. Did you hear what day she swore she was at this young woman's, at whom's she lost her trunk? - Yes, she said it was on Monday, between four and five o'clock in the evening.
Q. Now, on the oath you have taken, was that girl in either of these two rooms, the front or back parlour, on that day? - No, I was in both.
Q.Was there any body else in company with you but that young woman? - No.
Q.Have you known that young woman long? - Seven or eight weeks.
Court to Kennedy. I want to know what day of the week it was that you took these girls up? - I think it was on the 27th, on Tuesday.
Q. Do you know on what day the examination was signed? - I think it was on Thursday.
Mr. Knowlys. You are sure there were two examinations? - Yes, I am sure of that.
Q. How many days had they been in custody before the second examination - I think they were taken on Tuesday, and on Thursday they were brought up.
Court to Prosecutrix. You took the women up the day after you had been robbed, and that day you had an examination? - Yes.
Q. How many days after that was it that you had a re examination? - I cannot say whether it was a day or two.
Mr. Knowlys. How did you get your trunk to town? - I carried it my own self, all but that little way that I rode in the butcher's cart. It was a deal trunk, covered with flowered paper.
I live in one of Mr. Jones's houses, next door to where the robbery was committed.
Q. Do you recollect the day when these two girls were taken up? - Yes, of a Tuesday, in the afternoon, about four or five o'clock, to the best of my knowledge, I did not see them, only as I looked out of window.
Q. Were you at the house on the day before they were taken up? - I went backward and forward, and see the window open.
Q. Do you know what part of the house they occupied? - Burroughs occupied the second floor, and Evans lived in the parlour.
Q. What part of the day were you backwards and forwards? - In the evening, as the plaintiff says she was locked up; the parlour windows were open, and I see a candle burning.
Q. Did you see the girl there? - No, I am very confident she was not.
Q. What day were they taken up? - On Tuesday, the next day.
Jury. Are you a necessary woman to that house? - No, I am not
Court. What are these girls? - They get their living in an honest way, as far as I know, I know nothing to the contrary.
Q.With whom do you live? - Next door, with Mrs. Davis, she is a milliner by trade.
Q. Is not she a girl of the town? - Yes, she is.
Q.Now, as you live next door with a girl of the town, I ask you this, whether these two women are not common women of the town? - I don't know, as to their being common women of the town, I really cannot say.
Q. Do you mean to swear that these women do not live by receiving company? - I don't know justly.
Q. How long have you lived there? - Some time. Burroughs is a married woman, for what I canfind.
Q.Then you do not know them to be women of the town? - Yes, I believe they be, I never waited on them.
Jury. How came you to be backwards and forwards? - I see the parlour windows open, and I see the person shut the parlour windows, of the name of London, pretty nigh twelve o'clock at night; I was fetching errands, and things for supper; see them when I fetched a pint of beer.
Court. What time did you say you see the man shut the windows? - About eleven o'clock.
Court to London. How long have you been acquainted with this woman? - Seven or eight weeks.
Q. How does she get her livelihood? - She is a woman of the town.
Q. Do you know any thing of the other woman? - I do not; I went from there at nine o'clock, and returned at twelve, and staid there all night and left it about ten the next day.
Jury. Were you with Burrough's, or with Evans? - With Evans, in the parlour.
I live in the first floor of the same house, I am a poor soldier's widow.
Q. Is she a woman of the town? - She is.
Q. Did you see these persons on the day before they were taken up? - Yes, I see Evans, I see her go in with a key, about nine o'clock in the evening, as I was going by, and threw some water out into the street, from a bason.
Q. Did you see the parlour? - Yes.
Q. Do you know who was in the parlour? - There was that man that stands there, and another.
Q. Do you know who that other man was? - I do not; I do not recollect ever seeing him before.
Q. Did you see any thing of that girl in the course of the day? - No.
Q.Were you in Evans's apartment in the course of the day? - Never in Evans's apartment in my life, nor never spoke to her.
Q. How late in the day did you see the parlour door open? - The first was at nine o'clock in the evening.
Q. Did you see it open afterwards? - Yes, two or three times.
Q. I believe you are the landlord of this house. Do you know the day when these people were taken up? - I believe it was the Tuesday.
Q. Do you live in any part of the house? - I live in the next to it.
Q. Did you through the window, see the door of the back parlour open or shut? - I did not particularly look at the door; it is a common size room. The woman, the prosecutrix came the next morning, and complained she was robbed; I says, I believe you make a mistake in the house; says I, will you walk in? she says, no; says I, it is a very improper way to stand here, you had better go to Marlborough-street, and get a warrant to search the house.
Q. Did the women hear your advice to the girl, that if she insisted upon it that she was robbed, to go and get a warrant in Marlborough-street? - Yes, they did.
Q. Were there any curtains to them windows? - Yes.
Q.Were they drawn up, or down? - How could I see through the curtains, whether any body was in the room? They were up, or else I could not have seen the candle.
Q. Were either of them down? - No, neither of the curtains. They were damask curtains that drew up with a pully, yellow curtains.
I live in Newman-street; the prisoners are women of the town, but I never heard any body say they were dishonest.
Alice Burroughs, GUILTY . (Aged 21.)
Amelia Evans, GUILTY . (Aged 19.) Of stealing, but not in the dwelling house.
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
276. SARAH JONES was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 18th of January , a woman's callico gown, value 10s. three womens silk gowns, value 1l. 10s. three satin gowns, value 2l. two satin petticoats, value 10s. a bombazeen petticoat, value 5s. a cotton gown, value 10s. a stuff gown, value 7s. two womens linen shifts, value 4s. a check linen apron, value 1s. five pair of silk stockings, value 9d. a pair of satin shoes, value 1s. six muslin aprons, value 12s. the goods of Sarah Stent , in the dwelling house of Charles Hawkins , Esq .
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I never see her till she was taken up.
Q.When did you go into the country? - In June last, the 27th. I have been in town several times since; I see my things all safe the Friday night before the Christmas Day.
Q. And when did you miss them? - I went out of town the Saturday morning following, and the person that had the care of Mr. Hawkins's house, during the summer, was taken ill, and went away, and on New Year's Day she died; Mrs. Brown was put in her place, to take care of the house, she had Sarah Jones with her as a lodger, she lodged with Mary Brown six weeks before she went to Mr. Hawkins's house; I heard that.
Q. Where did you leave your clothes? - In the back room two pair of stairs, where I sleep, in a large trunk locked.
I had the care of the house the second of January.
Q.Do you know any thing of the prisoner at the bar? - She lodged with me seven weeks before I went. I was a lodger myself with Mr. Jarvis, No. 11, Charlotte-street, Grosvenor-square.
Q.Did the pay you for your lodging? - Yes, I had been in the house ten days before I saw that room unlocked in the two pair of stairs, the back room.
Q. Was it locked when you went into the house? - I believe not; but I did not go to see till I had been in the house several days.
Before that day, you had not observed whether it was locked or unlocked? - Yes, before the tenth day I had.
Q. Before the tenth day, did you observe it had been locked - Yes. It was then unlocked by a person, a friend of Mrs. Stents, who brought the key and unlocked the door; several ladies and gentlemen came to look at the house; it was to let. On the tenth day I went to the person that put me in the house, and told him I could not open the door. That person called on me the same day and came and opened the door; she came from him to me, and we opened the door with another key, then when we opened the door, we see the large trunk standing in the room, and a bundle laying in the chair, pinned up in a check apron; the person opened the bundle to shew me what was in it.
Mrs. Stent. Her name was Helen, my mistress's sister's maid
Q.What was in it? - Two silk gowns, two shifts lay at the top; I cannot pretend to say what more.
Q.Were these the things that were stole? - They were part of them. The same week, on Thursday or Friday, I see the same two shifts.
Q.Did you lock the door of the room after you had been in it? - No, I left it open; but I put the bundle in the wardrobe, which was not locked, in the same room.
Q.Then you see the same shifts, where? - On the kitchen dresser, marked S. S. in red letters; the prisoner was out at that time, she came home in the afternoon.
Q.Was that in the morning? - The same part of the day. In the afternoon she asked me if I had seen a couple of shifts lay there? I said, God bless me, yes; and I told her that I thought they were some of the same that were in the bundle up stairs, that I had put them in the ban box that stood just by. She stood a while, and said, they were marked with S I told her, yes, which made me think that they were some of the same that were in the bundle up stairs. She said no more to me nor I to her that time; she took them out of the band box, and went out of the house immediately.
Q. You see her take them out of the band box? - I did. She came home at night. The Sunday after she went into Wales; after she was gone I missed the bundle; she came on Sunday and was to call back to bid me good by; in the afternoon; when she came, I taxed her with taking the shifts; she said she knew nothing of the bundle, she never see them, and she said, as to the shifts they were her own, she had a dozen of the same, and that the woman, Mrs. Pottle, knew where she had left her box; I told her I would swear to the shifts, that they were the very same that I had seen in the bundle, and that they were marked with red letters; she said, her's were marked with blue, that she had brought them with an intent to mend them. She went away to go into Wales; the night before that the taylor brought her home a new riding
Mr. Alley. You had the curiosity to examine into this bundle on the 10th of January? - Yes.
Q. Pray when did you first become acquainted with the prisoner at the bar? -About a twelvemonth ago.
Q. In what situation of life were you in? - I was a lodger; I took in needle work. I believed I lodged in South Moulton-mews.
Q. You know where the prisoner lived at that time; she lived at my Lord Kenggall's? - Yes, I believe she did.
Q. Have not you received largesses of her as she could afford? - She had nothing to give; what I had from her came from her sister.
Q. Do you mean to swear that you never had any thing from the prisoner herself? - I cannot recollect that really; I may have received small things that I do not recollect.
Q. Were you in such assluent circumstances that you cannot recollect a kindness that you received from a person almost a stranger to you? - I cannot say that I have received any thing of any kindness.
Q. Do you mean to say, on your oath, that you cannot recollect? - I may have received something, but very small; I cannot say that I have received any.
Q. You passed then as a single woman? - Yes.
Q. Pray what apartment did the prisoner come to live in with you? - She asked me to let her come and live with me. I had a room to myself, rather small.
Q. A room, I believe, that you paid three shillings a week for, in fact. Was the room furnished or unfurnished? - Unfurnished.
Q. How many beds in the room? -One.
Q. How did you support yourself? -At needle work.
Q. Do you mean to say that was the only way? - Yes.
Q. Do you mean to say that the prisoner first came and asked to lodge with you? - Yes, I am certain of it. I did say that I had engaged to pay three shillings a week, and that a young woman had promised to come with me into the room, and she did not come; then she asked me if I thought the bed was large enough for her to come?
Q. Did not you say, that in consequence you was unable to pay the rent with ease? - I don't know but what I might, most likely I might.
Q. Then I ask you, on your oath, did not you ask her to come and live with you? - I did not.
Q.You have a child, I believe, and that child, at this period, was in the small pox, and you desired the prisoner would come with you into that house, and take care of that child? - I asked her if she would go with me.
Q. You have told us, that these two shiftslay on the kitchen dresser, and when the prisoner returned, she asked for these shifts? - She did. I told her, I thought they belonged to the bundle up stairs. She said, if I wished to have any further proof of her word, she would let me look into her boxes.
Q. Pray, do you know whether Mr. Hawkins had any intention of returning to that house, or not? - It was to be let when I first went into it.
Q. Can you tell, whether it was in the
Court. Did he ever return to it? -He did, after I came out.
JOSEPH SUGG sworn.
I live opposite to the house where the robbery was committed, Mr. Hawkins's. I was then porter to Green and Constable. I saw the prisoner come out with the things, (I cannot say the day of the month) with two bundles, one under each arm.
Q. Do you know what day of the week it was? - I do not. I see her go round the corner with them; I see no more of her that day; and I see her another day carry a bundle up the street, the other way, up towards Vigo-lane.
I live with Mr. Hawkins as housekeeper.
Q. Can you tell, whether, at the time they have been talking of, Mr. Hawkins had quitted this house? - He intended letting it. I went into the country on the 23d of June, and did not return till the 26th of January, in consequence of the robbery. I missed a great quantity of things out of a large chest, on the top of the garret stairs, table linen, sheets, gowns, and petticoats.
Q. To Brown. Did you see this chest that Mrs. Kelly speaks of? - I did not observe it till she came to town; it was corded and locked; when she came to open it the hinges were broke.
Q. You never observed it was broke open? - Never.
I know no more, than that Miss Jones lodged at Mrs. Jarvis's; I am Mrs. Jarvis's maid; I opened the door to Miss Jones, when she brought bundles into our house.
Q. Do you remember the time that she ceased to lodge at your house? - I do not. She went with Mrs. Brown to Mr. Hawkins, and then came back again, and slept with Mrs. Pottle.
Q. How long did she stay away before she came to sleep with Mrs. Pottle? - I don't know, indeed.
Q. Do you know what were in the bundles? - I don't know what were in them.
Q. Nor what became of them you don't know? - I do not.
Q. Was your house ever searched? -Yes.
Q. Was any thing found in it? - Not that I know of.
I belong to Marlborough-street. On the 28th of January last, I had a search warrant, to search two boxes, in No. 11, Charles-street, Grosvenor-square, in the apartment of Mrs. Pottle. When I went there, there was only one box. I asked where the prisoner at the bar was? Mrs. Pottle told me she was gone to Wales, but she could not tell me in what place. I searched that one box, and found nothing in it, but only rubbish. I never heard more of the prisoner till the 28th of last month. When I heard she was servant to a lady in Gower-street; I took her from there to the office.
Q.What is the lady's name? - Stimson. I searched her boxes there; I found nothing but only her own property; the prosecutrix was along with me.
Prisoner. I have not any thing more to say, than that as soon as they accused me of the robbery, I came back to town; I told my prosecutrix before I went into the country, that if she was willing to
Court to Mrs. Kelly. When had you notice of the robbery? - On the 24th of January, from the footman that came to town.
Sugg. I forgot to mention that one of the bundles that I see her take out of the house was in a check apron, and the other in a pillow case, as it appeared to me.
Jury. How do you know it was in a pillow case? - I was right opposite to it.
Mr. Alley. This was publickly in noon day? - It was.
The prisoner called two witnesses who gave her a good character.
NOT GUILTY .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
277. ANN BATT and ANN BRYANT were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 8th of May , two pair of womens leather shoes, value 4s. a silk gown, value 4s. a pair of cotton stockings, value 1s. a silk sash, value 1s. 6d. a muslin shawl, value 3s. a callico petticoat, value 1s. 6d. half a yard of linen cloth, value 6d. a muslin apron, value 1s. two check linen aprons, value 6d. a hempen apron, value 6d. and a glass bottle, value 2d. the goods of James Cooley .
Q. Had you any character with her? - A very good character. On the 8th of May, Friday, yesterday fortnight, I got up in the morning towards seven o'clock, to open my shop; when I came down stairs, I found myself fastened into my back room; I could not get out. It is a room that leads from the stair case into the shop, I made a violent push against the door, at last the door flew open; when the door flew open I got admittance into the shop; my shop seemed in disorder, the shutters were half open and half shut. The bar that went across was taken from its place from the shutters; I found it in the middle of the shop. I also found the sash of my glass door taken down and placed about the middle of the shop. When I came to unlock the street door I found there was no key in the lock, but the key taken out of the lock some where else towards the window of the shop; I went up stairs to my wife and asked her if she had sent Mary out for any thing and my wife said, no. I went down into the street and inquired of my neighbours if they see my servant go out that morning? and I was informed that she had gone out; then I went to my wife and the went up stairs in the maid's bed chamoer, and the found all the things gone.
Q. Did you go up and see the things gone? - I did not. My wife did. My wife went down into her dining room and found there was thirteen shillings and sixpence lost out of a drawer; says she I am robbed. My wife went in search of her, and I went in search; I went and traced the prisoner and found her at the Golden Cross, Charing-cross. About the hour of one or two o'clock; I went into the inn belonging to the Golden Cross, there I found the property booked, going off by the Gosport stage.
Q. Did you see it booked? - I did not. I charged her with the robbery.
Q.Did you keep her in custody? - Not till the officer got there.
Q. Did you find your property? - I did. I found it at the inn, in the warehouse, packed up in a box and bundle.
Q.Were all the property mentioned
Q. Was that box and bundles delivered up to you? - Yes, it was, to the officer.
Q. What have you to say against the other prisoner Bryant? - We went and searched with the officer at Bryant's room. I have seen her come different times to my servant with a letter. I found them both together. I found Bryant in the cellar of the Golden Cross afterwards, with the prisoner in the tap room of the Golden Cross.
Q. Did you have her detained too? -Yes, I did.
Q. Is the book keeper here? - No.
Q.How far is the warehouse from the tap room? - Very little distance.
Q. Did you say any thing to either of these people in that tap room? - I did. I told my servant she was my prisoner; she told me she would not go along with me; I was not a proper officer; and she would be charged by a proper officer; I I went in seach of an officer, and I found one, and I took him to the cellar and I gave charge of them both.
Q. Did they say any thing? - They said they would not go along with me. but they went with the officer to St. Martin's watch-house.
Q.Have you any body here from the Golden Cross? - I did not know there was any occasion for them, or else I would have sent for them. The constable had the key and opened the box and found the things.
I pursued the prisoner Ann Batt to the inn, with my neighbour; she screamed out the minute she saw me and told me that she had wronged me, and that the other prisoner that was with her was the insigation of it, I did not know that she had got the things at the time.
Q.Had you made her any promise? - No. I was there before my husband; I was down in the cellar when the other prisoner came to set off Ann Batt; I see them in the cellar that they go to wait till the coach sets out. The other prisoner was not with her at first but she came in about three minutes after I came in. I asked Batt how she could think of going off in the morning so before I was up; she told me that she was very sorry that she ever did.
Q. Did she say any thing more when the other prisoner came in? - She said, she had been her ruin, and had persuaded, her to rob her master and mistress; and the other said, that she had never persuaded her to do any such thing. When I was going in pursuit of Ann Batt, I met the other prisoner before I found my servant, and I asked her, what she had done with my servant; that I was informed that they were both gone off together; Bryant told me, that I might go to Hell and seck her, for she had sent her to chapel; and she made many bitter reproaches at me; and she told me, I should never hear of the prisoner no more; and that she had got my property, and patted her pocket, and said, that she had the value of my property in her pocket.
Q. Did she mention what the property was? - No, she did not.
Q. How did you know that your property was at the Golden Cross? - I only missed a shewl, and thirteen shillings and sixpence, that is all that I knew of. I see the property booked at the inn in the name of Bryant. I see the property in my servant's bundle, and two boxes.
Q. Were both of these boxes taken to the watch-house? - Yes, both of them, and the bundle likewise.
Q.Whose boxes were they? - My servant's own property; she bought one, and paid for it honesty, while she lived servant with me.
Q. I only want to know the fact. I dare say you speak the truth; one was a bonnet box? - The other box I see her buy it, and it was made out of some tea chests, covered with paper, figured paper, when she bought it, there was a bit of paper tore off at the bottom, so that we could see what it was made off, and I knew it by that.
Q. Were these the same boxes that you see at the warehouse? - Yes, they were the boxes.
Q. Did you see the same at the watch-house? - Yes, because I was with them all the time. There was nothing of mine in the bundle but two coloured aprons; they are valued sixpence. One box was tied, and the other was locked. They were opened in my presence.
Q. Are all the articles in the indictment these things that were in the two boxes and bundle? - Not in the two boxes; in one box there was nothing but her bonnet and bat.
Q. Was it in the locked box that your things were? - Yes, except the apron. I always found her very honest till she got acquainted with this other woman at the bar. I have intrusted her with money and property, and she was always an honest girl.
Q. When did you last see the other woman in the house? - I had never seen her in the house. I had seen her at the place whrer we occupy our business, at the Change in Rosemary-lane, coming to my servant, bringing her repeatedly a dirty letter.
Q. All the property that belonged to you was in Batt's box? - Yes, it was.
I am a constable of St. Martin's. About half after three Mary Cooley , the prosecutrix, came to my house, on the 8th day of May, Friday, the day of the robbery, and desired me to come down with him, to take two persons into custody. I went with him to this cellar, under the Golden Cross, where I found Mr. Cooley and the two prisoners at the bar, in a good deal of wrangling. I told them, that they were not to stop there to make a noise and rumpus; if they had been robbed, to tell me where the property was, and I would go and fetch it. With that the two prisoners went with me to the warehouse and Ann Batt desired them to deliver up the bundle and boxes, which they did.
Q. was Bryant present? - She was; she said nothing, only that she was innocent, and knew nothing of the matter; but they gave me charge of her; and I took them altogether. I took the boxes and bundle into St. Martin's watch-house, in order to retain them there till the magistrate sat at night, at six o'clock. When we came up, Mrs. Cooley said, that she had missed a number of things, and I desired Ann Batt to give me the key of her box, and she gave it me, and I turned the things out, and I said, Mrs. Cooley, you know which are your's, and which are her's; and she claimed all these things that are here. I took them into my possession, and kept them till now. This little bottle I found in Bryant's room, in a two pair of stairs, over the watch-house. Mr. Cooley took me to the Room.
Prosecutor. The Key of that room was given to the constable by Bryant.
Pradford. Says I, if you are an honest woman, give me the key of your room; and she gave it me.
LAZARUS STONE sworn.
Q.How long afterwards? - I take it to be about ten minutes.
Q. What sort of boxes were they? -Coloured paper. I went to the Golden Cross; we saw the boxes in the counting house.
Q. Were they the same that the girl carried out of the house? - Yes, they were I saw one of the bundles there; the biggest bundle that she carried out was not there.
My husband sells locks and buckles on Tower-hill On the 8th of May, between seven and eight, Friday morning, Bryant came down stairs to me.
Q. Did she lodge in the same house? - Yes, up two pair of stairs. She came down to light a candle in my room, and told me, that this Nanny had come away from her place, and I said sure! the said, that she was up stairs in her room, and that her master and mistress had beat her, and that she was cetermined not to go back. Soon after this, Mrs. Cooley came, to inquire of me whether I knew where Nan Bryant lived; I said, I did not know.
Q. Do you know whether that glass bottle was taken out of her room? - I cannot say.
Q. Where do you live? - Bailey's-place, East Smithfield. At half past eight in the morning, I see Ann Batt go down with a square figured paper box, and Ann Bryant She passed my door. I live up one pair of stairs, and Ann Bryant had a bundle in her hand, and she said, as she went by my door, that she would take the girl to her father and have nothing to do with it.
Q. How far is your house from Rosemary-lane? - Mine is just next Towerhill, by the king's tobacco warehouse.
Prosecutor. Not a quarter of a mile.
Prisoner Batt. I wish to know, whether, that morning that she see me with this woman, that I told her that my master and mistress had beat me, and ill used me, and that I came away from my place on that occasion? - No, she did not, it was the other woman.
Q. To Bradford. Was it in Bailey's-place that you took the bottle? - Yes, Mr. Cooley took it from there, and delivered it to me. Mr. Cooley said, that is my bottle; I will swear to it; it had some gin in it.
Prosecutor. There was nothing in that woman's room but that bottle. (The bottle, &c. produced) It used to stand continually on the dining room shelf; I have had it eight years. It is not worth owning.
Q. Did you miss it with the other things? - I missed it the next morning.
Q. What day was it you found it at Bryant's? - Two days after the robbery.
Mr. Alley. That bottle you did not take away the first day? - I did not.
Q. It is a common Daffy's elixir bottle? - It is.
Court. Look at the other things? - These shoes, black spanish, have my own private mark on them.
Prosecutrix. This muslin shawl we were washing, and it is rough dried now; all the things are mine.
Prisoner Batt. In the morning I went away from the place, this woman advised me to leave the place, and then afterwards she advised me to rob my master, for her to have the money that the things would sell for, and go to Portsmouth.
Prisoner Bryant. I leave it to my counsel.
The prisoner Bryant called four witnesses, who gave her a good character, and said she got her bread by washing.
Ann Batt, GUILTY .
Fined 1s .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
278. WILLIAM CLARKE was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 12th of March , a wooden box, value 1s. a cloth gown, value 9s. two linen shifts, value 4s. two pair of cotton stockings, value 2s. a muslin handkerchief, value 1s. 6d. a muslin apron, value 2s. and two linen aprons, value 3s. the goods of Hannah Watts , spinster .
I am a master baker, No. 13, Nightingale-lane, East Smithfield. On the 12th of March, about six o'clock in the evening, I was going along Leadenhall-street , to a lottery office, to buy a sixteenth; going homewards, towards Aldgate Pump, just opposite Catharine Cree church, I observed two men run past me, with a single horse and cart, they were in the cart; after they past me twenty, or twenty-five yards, I observed them clap along side of a country cart, loaded with dung, and some boxes on the top of that dung; I see them get up and cut a box from the top of that cart; they got up on their legs, and they could reach it in their own cart; as soon as they had lifted the box over the wheel, they whipped it into their own cart, and made a stop with their own cart while the country cart went past them; as soon as there was room they whirled round to the left, and went back again; I perceived that, it struck me that it was a robbery, having never seen any thing of the kind before; then I popt my eye on them, to see which way they went, they turned down Billiter-lane; then I looked the other way, and see the countryman stop his horse, then I thought he was robbed of his box; I directly ran to the corner of Billiter-lane, to look after the men; they had just turned the corner, I see them turning down the street as fast as ever they could, driving down; thinks I, you shall not have that box, if I can hinder you now; I pursued them; it was coming on hazy weather, but I had a great coat on. When I got to the bottom of Billiter-lane, they had just turned the corner into Fenchurch-street; when I got to the corner I did not see them, with that I shoved into Mark-lane, thinking they must be that way; I see them again in the middle of Mark-lane, opposite Crutched-sryars; there I see them squeesed in among some carts and coaches, or something or another, I don't know what, I see them squeese in as far as they could there, and one man slid out of the cart, on the near side of the cart, as I was running; directly as I came up to the cart I laid hold of this box, and charged the man in the cart with the robbery.
Q.What became of the man that got out of the cart? - I see him when I laid hold of the box, but laying hold of the box, and so many people gathering together, I could not challenge him afterwards; he got away; the other man, the prisoner, the first word he spoke to me was, d-mn you, and the box to, I know nothing of the box, nor what is in it; at that moment Mr. Maine, oilman, came out, and asked me what was the matter; it was just opposite his door; I desired him to send for an officer, I had nobody but myself; I told him that the man had committed a felony, and ought to be secured; he sent for an officer, and he was secured. There was a gentleman says to me, what is the master, sir? I told him; says he, have you nobody to send for the countryman, the driver of the cart? he went, and came back again
Q. You see two men in this cart; could you observe which was the man that cut the box? - I was not near enough for that; to the best of my recollection they were both on their legs.(The box produced.)
Q. It is a pretty large box? - It is not a great weight I believe, there are all the things in it that were in it, it was opened before the Lord Mayor. This is the man that drove the cart.
Q.Have you ever seen the other man? - I believe I have, but I cannot swear to him.
Mr. Knowlys. Can you take on yourself to be certain whether both were on their legs or not? - I can, they both took it; I was near enough to see they were both on their legs.
Q. You said before to the best of your recollection? - I am certain.
Q. Now another thing; the other man got away, and was nimble enough in getting off? - He stood before the house when I charged this man with it.
Q. Was not this man extremely drunk indeed? - He did not appear so to me, I don't think he was drunk, I dare say he had been drinking.
Q. Do you know a Mr. Callow, who lives in Mark-lane, a dealer in meal? - Yes, I have dealt with him.
Q. Have you not repeatedly offered this man, that if he could ascertain who that person was in the cart, so far as you could contribute to it, he should have his liberty? - Never.
Q. Was not that offer made before the Lord Mayor when you attended? - No, it was not.
Q. Another thing; when the box was produced, was not the woman who claimed the property, asked if she knew the contents? - I believe she was.
Q.Was she able or not, before the box was opened, to ascertain the contents? - Yes, she was sturried a good deal, and with some reluctance mentioned to my Lord Mayor what there was in the box.
Court. The two men that were in this cart, were they sitting together at the front of the cart? - They were both sitting together.
Q. And then you see them drive close to this country cart? - Yes, to the off side wheel.
Q. And then they both stood up, and you don't know which was the hand that took it? - They both stood up to the best of my recollection.
- SCOTT sworn.
Q. You drove the dung cart? - Yes; just by Aldgate Pump I was robbed of a box.
Q. Who did you receive that box from? - From Sparkes Moline. That is the box.
Q. When was that box in your cart? - On Thursday, the 12th of March.
Q. How did you lose it? - By two men, that were driving a chair cart.
Q. Did you see them take it? - No, I was on the near side of my horse.
Q. And they took it on the off side? - Yes.
Q. You heard it was lost afterwards? - Yes.
Q. How many boxes had you there then? - Four.
Q. How many ought you to have? -Five; It was tied to the side of the ladder, with a string.
Q. Are you sure as to the box? - Yes.
I am a carman; I helped put it on the cart, my master told me, Mr. Moline.
Q. Whose box was it? - Hannah Watts 's,
Q.Where was it to go? - To Stratford; I did not take it.
Q. Do you know the box again? -Yes.
Q. Is that it? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. Do you know the young woman to whom it belongs? - No, not at all.
The box belongs to me, it contains one gown, &c.
Q.Where was it to go? - To my master's, Sparkes Moline, a tanner and leather cutter, at Stratford.
Q. Where is his town house? - In the Broadway, Westminster.
Q. Were these your things in it? - They are mine.
Q. This carman was a fellow servant of your's? - Yes, he was my master's carman, belonging to Stratford; my master sent me down that day to clean the house.
Mr. Knowlys. You know a person of the name of Kendrick? - Yes.
Q.Have you not been married to this man? - No, I have not.
Q. I have been instructed that he has fell into misfortunes, and you have gone into service as a single woman.
I am the constable that had the prisoner in charge; I was sent for about six o'clock.
Mr. Knowlys. Was this man sober at the time you took him into custody? -He had been drinking.
Q.Was he not a great deal flustered with liquor? - I believe he was a great deal more flustered with the charge than with the liquor; when I had him in custody he told me that he was going to buy some flour cheap in Mark-lane.
Q. What time of the day was it? - Thursday, about six o'clock; market days are Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays; there is no market at six o'clock in the evening.
Prisoner. I was going to buy some flour, a man told me that he had four hundred and fifty sacks to fell, at fifty shillings a sack; my child was christened that day, and I drank more than did me good; and going along a man met me, and called me by name, and jumped into the cart, and whether he put the box into the cart or no I cannot say, I was so intoxicated with liquor.
The prisoner called four witnesses who gave him a good character, said that he was in the muffin and crumpet way , and in the summer a green grocer .
GUILTY . (Aged 35.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
279. BENJAMIN STURGEON was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Copeland and William Ellis , about the hour of eight in the night, on the 21st of April , and burglariously stealing therein, a linen cloth truss, value 1s. twenty pounds weight of black tea, value 1l. 10s. ten pounds weight of green tea, value 2l. 5s. three pounds weight of coffee, value 11s. 6s. the goods of the said John Copeland and William Ellis .
- CHAPMAN sworn.
Q. Where is the truss? - The constable has got it.
Q. How far had the prisoner got when you laid hold of him? - About forty yards.(The truss produced) It was packed up to go off the next morning; it is directed, my own hand writing; the porter sewed it up; it contains tea and coffee.
Q. Whose house is this? - Messrs. Copeland and Ellis.
Q. Who lives there? - Mr. Ellis. The truss is worth about six pounds thirteen shillings, valued at five pounds.
GUILTY, Of stealing to the value of 39s. and not of the burglary .
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
280. CHARLES DRAPER was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Cornwall, the younger , Esq . about the hour of nine in the night, on the 29th of April, and burglariously stealing therein, a woollen cloth coat, called a box coat, value 1l. 11s. and a woollen cloth great coat, value 15s. the goods of the said John Cornwall .
I live with Mr. Cornwall, in St. Peter's Le Poor , I am a coachman. On the 29th of April, I was at the stable, between six and seven o'clock, I left it then, and returned between eight and nine, and this man was coming out of the stable, with the coats under his arm, the box coat and the furtout coat.
Q. Where is the dunghill? - Close by the door of the stable. The constable happened to come by and took charge of him.
Q. Where is it Mr. Cornwall lives? - No. 31, Old Broad-street.
Q. How are the stables situated as to his house? - The butler's pantry joins it.
Q. Then it is all within the enclosure? - Yes.
Q. Do you go out of the butler's pantry into the stable? - No. There is a small yard, the door of which comes out by the butler's pantry.
Q. The butler's pantry joins to the house? - Yes.
Q. What time of the day was this? - It was not totally dark when I see him.
Q. Was it light enough to see the face of any body? - Not where I first see him.
Q.Was it if you were near him? - Yes. (The coat produced.) I have no doubt of the thing at all.
Prisoner. I want to ask him whether the door was shut or open? - I was not the last person that left the stable. This is the staple that was drawn from the post.
Q. Did you find the staple drawn? - Yes.
I am a constable; I was coming along Broad-street the 29th of April, near about nine o'clock in the evening; I heard a kind of uproar, and I went up the yard where I heard it, and the prisoner was in the stable, with his hands tied. It was moonlight then. I searched him, and found no implements or any thing on him. I asked him how he came by this property? and he told me he found it on the dunghill in the yard.
Prisoner. I went up the yard to case myself, and these things say on the dunghill, and this man came up and took hold of me, and took me into the stable; and the constable did not come up for some time after.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
281. ANN TAYLOR was indicted for breaking and entering the dwelling house of Martin Brookes , he and others of his family being therein, about the hour of seven in the forenoon, on the 2d of May , and feloniously stealing therein, a woollen cloth great coat, value 5s. 6d. a ditto, value 5s. and a brass candlestick, value 6d. the goods of Henry Catman .
I am a neighbour of Mr. Brookes. On the 2d of May, in the morning, about half after seven, I heard the cry of stop thief! I come to my own door, I see a woman; turn out of the gate of Mr. Brookes's house, about ten yards from my own house; the house shuts in with a gate.
Q. How far may this gate be from the house? - I suppose it may be about half a dozen yards.
Q. Look at the prisoner, was she that woman? - Yes, she is.
Q. Did you know her person before? -Never, to my knowledge. I went out to my own door, and by then I got to the corner, where Mr. Brooke's lives, I see her drop the clothes on the ground, two coats, loose. She was going to run through a passage to get away into Hoxton-square, and she was stopped; I cannot say that I see her stopped, but I see the man bringing her back again from where he took her out of this passage.
Q. Were you robbed of any property at any time? - Yes, two coats.
Q. Were you at home at that time? - I was.
Q. Was Mr. Brookes at home and his family? - Yes.
Q. In what manner were you robbed? Did you lose a brass candlestick at any time? - The brass candlestick was knocked off the box, I was not robbed of that, I lost the two coats. I cannot say any thing at all about the thief. I see the two coats about ten minutes before they were lost, before the outcry of thief was called, in my bed room where I slept. I have the first floor there, and I went into the other room to breakfast. I have nothing more to say then to swear to my property.
Mr. Knapp. How many lodgers are there in this house? - Only that family,
Q.Does Mr. Brookes live in this house? - Yes, he is the occupier of the house.
Q.Where had you left these coats? -It my room where I sleep. I had locked the door, but left the key in the door.
Q. By way of security? - Yes. I did not expect any body.
Q. Were the lodgers in the house at the time? - I don't know nothing about that, they have a right to conduct themselves as they please.
I was going for my husband's work, when I got about two yards from my own house, I heard the cry of stop thief. I looked back, and the second time I saw this woman in Paul's-alley, just going in out of Hare-court. When I looked about the second time the things laid down at her feet, and I picked them up, two coats. I gave them to Mr. Brookes's lodger, a woman lodger in the house.
Q. What is the woman's name? -Pike.
Q. Should you know the coats again? - No, I believe not, one was blue and the other was another colour, a kind of a drab colour.
I am a son of Martin Brookes.
Q.Did you see the woman in the house? - No, I did not.
Q.Was the house broke open? - No, the street door was open, and she went up stairs and unlocked the door, and took the property out. I was at work in the house; I heard an alarm of stop thief; I ran down stairs immediately to give my assistance. When I got down stairs the prisoner had got the property in the street, and she dropped the property. I did not see her drop it; the first thing I see, I see her running away when she had dropped the property, running from the house. I pursued her; she ran through a passage in Paul's-alley, which is a throughfare into Jewin street. I stopped her; but she had jumped over some railings.
Q. You had her committed? - Yes.
Q. Did you see the property that she dropped, picked up? - No, I did not see it picked up. I see it in Charlotte Pike's hands; she is not here; one was a great coat, and the other was a close bodied one.
Mr. Knapp. Charlotte Pike is not here? - No, she is not.
Q.You told my lord that the prisoner went up stairs, and that she must have unlocked the door, you did not see her? - I did not.
Q. You are talking what you might suppose on the business; you did not see her drop the things? - I did not.
Q. I thought you did not know so much about the business as you supposed.
Court. You know these coats again that you see in the hands of Pike? -Yes.
I was the officer that took her. I have brought two coats here. I had them delivered to me. I cannot recollect who put the coats into my hands.
Q. How long was it after the robbery? - It might be the space of ten minutes very possibly, I cannot pretend to say.
Q. Have you kept the coats from that time to this? - Yes.
Q. To Price. Can you say that these are the coats that were dropped by the prisoner? - I believe them to be such.
Q. To Headbury. Were those the coats that you saw at the woman's feet? - The top coat looks very much like the colour, and the other coat was a blue one, I believe them to be the same.
Q. They might be two other coats of the same colour? - They might; I could not swear to the coats.
Court to Brookes. Are those the coats that you saw in Mrs. Pike's hands? - I will swear they are the coats.
Mr. Knowlys. Mr. Catman lodges in your house. What is Mr. Catman? - In the coal way.
Q. Do you mean to swear to all the property that belongs to Mr. Catman? -Why I think I could, but these I am certainly able to swear to. My father is a taylor.
Catman. They are my property; I paid for them both. I suppose I have wore them above half a year.
Q. How many coats have you in your possession? - I suppose I have got six.
Q. Any of the same colours? - None.
Q. Was any injury done to the house? - Not that I know of.
Q. Are you perfectly sure that you turned that lock? - I am perfectly sure that I did.
Q. Will you swear that, when a person's life depends on it? - I will swear that I turned the key, and left it in the door.
Mr. Knowlys. You see this woman's life depends on the turn of a key? - That is more than I know. I will swear that I turned the key, and I left the key in the door.
Q. Do you always turn the key of that room? - Always.
Q. Has it happened to you to forget it? - I don't know that it has upon my oath. I may have left the key, but however, I have locked it.
Q. Do you always leave the key in when you lock the door? - Not always; but however, I did that morning.
Mr. Knowlys. Where have you been this afternoon waiting? - Here, paying attendance.
Q.Been over at the public house? - Yes.
Q. Been over to the Rose? - Yes; but what does that signify my sentiments are always the same.
Q. You drank nothing? - I don't say so.
Q. How much have you drank in the course of this afternoon? - What is that material?
Q. How much, just for the sake of curiosity? - Am I to answer all your impertinent questions?
Q. I desire to have the question answered.
Court. Have you been drinking or not? - I have been drinking.
Mr. Knowlys. How much have you been drinking? - I never stipulate, I think as you think, that it is strange nonsense.
Q. Now, sir, what liquor have you been drinking at the public house? -What have I been drinking; why sir, I have had some rum and water.
Q. How much? - What is that to you?
Q. Have you been drinking freely, or have you not? - Rather too free, more that I ought to have done.
Court. It is very indecent in you to be getting into liquor, when a woman's life is at stake.
The prisoner called four witnesses who gave her a good character, said she was a lace maker, and came out of the west country.
GUILTY, Of stealing, but not of breaking and entering . (Aged 30.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
THOMAS PARKER and MARY FITZGERALD were indicted for, on the 17th of April , burglariously did break and enter the dwelling house of George Sole , about the hour of three in the night, and did burglariously steal therein, five hundred and fifty two copper halfpence, value 1l. 3s. and one hundred copper farthings, value 2s. 1d. the monies of the said George Sole .
Q. Were you the last up in the house? - Yes, I believe I was.
Q. Did you fasten the house? - Yes, I believe I did. I got up in the morning between four and five.
Q. Was it day light? - Yes; but I was awaked before that, about three o'clock, by the watchman's ringing for me. I came down then; it was not light then; I struck a light and came down stairs.
Q. Was it light enough to see the face of a man by day light? - No, it was not.
Q. In what state did you find your house then? - My bar shutters part of the pannel was broke out, and the square of glass forced in; and when I came to examine, I found that I had been robbed of four pounds ten shillings in copper, from underneath the window, we had a little private shelf that we used to keep copper on for some years past. I secured the place and went up stairs again, and came down at my regular time as I always had done, and I made all the inquiry where I thought these bad people lived; and I got an information and I sent for a peace officer, and I gave him intelligence where I thought he could find such people, and he went and the watchman went with him, and they found halfpence; they sent for me and shewed me what they found.
Jury. Were these halfpence loose or in crown papers? - In crown papers, five shillings in each paper.
I had an information that Mr. Sole had been robbed. I went to that young woman's lodging, Mary Fitzgerald's, it was as near half past seven o'clock as possible, on Saturday the 18th, I found her, the boy, and two more men, I knew them to be thieves before, they were eating of boiled eggs. I told them I was come to make a search for something that had been lost. She told me I was very welcome, there was nothing there that she was afraid of; searching the bed, I found this parcel of halfpence between the blankets and the bed. The bed was in the same room, I told her that was what I came after. She told me to take it and keep it to myself. I made her answer again that would not do for Mr. Sole to lose his property in that manner. I immediately sent for Mr. Sole by the watchman, and while the watchman was gone, one of the men that were there said, why cannot you keep it for yourself? I told him I could not think of making a property of what I know another to be robbed of; says one of the other men, (not her) d-mn him, we will do Mr. Sole out and out. Mr. Sole came up into the room. I opened the bundle of halfpence, and asked him if he could swear to that property before the prisoners? he said he could, he picked out these three farthings which he said he could swear to; he said he knew it was all his property, though he would not pretend to swear to it all. I charged him to aid and assist me to take the prisoners; one of the men said,
Q. Who said that? - One man that is not taken, Ward his name is. Immediately Mr. Soles ran down stairs to get more assistance to take them, in the mean time they rushed by me, and insisted to go down stairs; all the men, that boy and all. I followed them, they got before, and got out of my sight. I followed on after them as fast as I could till more assistance came; this boy, the prisoner Parker, jumped into a river that parts from Turnmill street to Saffron hill, between them. A man who see him go down, said, he was under that bridge, I looked under the bridge; a man went down to this river or ditch; or whatever you call it, and assisted me to pull him out.
Q. Was it the prisoner? - It was. I pulled him out, and tied his hands behind him, and took him back to Mr. Sole's, and then I went back to the woman's lodgings, and took her afterwards; she made no resistance at all against me, she said that how she knew the boy to be innocent at that time, and then I took them to prison.
Q.Now this room, whose room was it? - It was her room. I knew she lived in the court, but I did not know that that was the room before. She delivered up the key, and acknowledged it was her room.
Q. Do you know whether any body lived with her there, whether it was the room of any one that was with her as well as her's? - I do not.
WILLIAM LARCHER Sworn.
I am a watchman of that district, coming round the hour of three. I saw Mr. Sole's shutters broke, which here is a piece of it, and I saw a pane of glass broke; and I immediately rung his bell to alarm him. After that Mr. Sole came down and struck a light, and I asked what he had lost? he said five pounds worth of halfpence, but after that he found two papers out of the five pounds, that they had not taken, which were four pounds ten shillings he lost, which he has sworn to.
Q. How far is it from Fitzgerald's to to Sole's? - Not above a hundred yards.
Q. Did you go with the constable? - I did. When I went up along with the constable, he told her that he came to make a search from information that he had got; he immediately turned down the bed clothes, and found the property of the prosecutor's underneath; he immediately sent me for Mr. Sole. Mr. Sole came, and thought of his opinion it was his property, by finding them three farthings particularly that he could swear to. After that Mr. Sole went for more assistance; because they d-mned and shugg-ed their eyes that six men should not take them. Immediately, while Mr. Sole was gone they flew out of the house, and ran down stairs, I catched hold of one by the collar, and one Ward that is not taken, drew a knife about half a foot long. I followed them along, with the constable, two or three alleys, till they got over the shore that goes up to Saffron-hill, there is a shore there that comes from Hampstead, runs quite down into Fleet Ditch, and so into the river, and there this lad jumped in out of the three, the other two made their escape by that time, there was assistance came, and ran after them two down Saffron-hill, they were not taken at all. I went back again after Mr. Brown, the constable, had taken that lad, and the woman was in the room; I brings her down to the party at Mr. Sole's house, that is all; I have told the truth.
Prosecutor. I cannot pretend to say any thing but to one halfpenny and farthing, the farthing I have had in my house between two and three years; it is
Q. Where was the bit of brass found? - I papered the halfpence the Wednesday night before. This was on Friday night that this happened.
Q. Where did you put the brass farthing? - In one crown's worth of halfpence, as we always put three penny worth of farthings in five shillings worth of halfpence. The halfpenny is marked with an M. and a crown, I do not remember seeing it till the Wednesday night to my knowledge.
Q. Did you put that with any of the halfpence? - Yes, I did.
Q. Did you put the halfpence in a particular parcel to the farthing? - That I cannot say. The reason of my remarking the halfpenny was, there are many cutler's use my house, and they are used to stamp the halfpence, and seeing this halfpenny stamped in this way, I remarked it, because, I do not remember ever seeing one stamped so before.
Prisoner Parker. I got up about seven o'clock in the morning, I had no money, I went to pawn my coat to get some victuals, and coming by this here court, I met with this young woman at the bar, and I was always brought up in the parish, and I knew this young woman; and I asked her where a pawnbroker was open, to pawn my coat to get some victuals? she said they were not up yet, and she had something in a stone bottle, some peppermint, and I asked her to give me a drop, and she said, if I would come up stairs the would give me some. I had not been up there above a quarter of an hour before this gentleman came up, and they said that Mr. Sole's house was broke open, and robbed of some halfpence.
Prisoner Fitzgerald. I was filling water at the end of the court; two young men came through the court that I had drank with before, and they asked me if I would have any thing to drink, I said I did not care, and I went up stairs with the water, and they followed me, and then I went down and fetched half a pint of peppermint, and I met this boy, Parker, at the top of the court; and he asked me to go and pawn his coat, and I said the pawnbrokers were not up. I said if he would go up stairs and wait a bit, the pawnbrokers would be open presently, and directly as I came up stairs, there was the constable in the room with the watchman; and they said they came to search my place, and I said he was very welcome; and he asked me if the bedstead turned up? I told him, no; and he searched on the bed, and there he found these halfpence; and he said, he supposed that was what he came to look for, for Mr. Sole's house had been broke open, and he had lost some halfpence.
Prisoner Parker. I have not a friend in the world.
Court to Brown. When you went into Fitzgerald's room, who were the first people you see? - I met her coming down stairs. I found all the three men in the room up one pair of stairs. I told her I had come to search the room.
Q. To Larober. Were you with Brown? - I was.
Jury to Brown. Why did you suspect these persons in particular? - It was not me that suspected them particularly myself, but Mr. Sole that directed me, having derived some particular information.
Q. Did you inquire of them how they came by such a quantity of halfpence? - I asked them how they came by such a quantity of halfpence, which I thought belonged to Mr. Sole? - they told me to keep them myself.
Q. Then they did not tell you how they came by them? - No.
Mary Fitzgerald, GUILTY . Death .(Aged 23.)
Tried by the Second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.
283. JOSEPH SAMUEL was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 10th of May , a dimity cloak, value 5s. a bed tick, value 20s. a bolster tick, value 5s. two pillow ticks, value 5s. three yards of muslin, value 9s. a pair of callico sleeves, value 1s. two muslin caps, value 2s. a linen table cloth, value 1s. two linen aprons, value 2s. a silk cloak, value 6s. and two silver table spoons, value 15s. the goods of Henry Hodges , in his dwelling house .
Q.Were you robbed at any time? - Yes, on the 10th of May, Sunday morning, of Sundry articles, by forcing open the shutter of the parlour window, in the front of the street.
Q. When did you make that first discovery? - Between seven and eight in the morning, when I came down stairs.
Q. Did you lose the things in the indictment out of the parlour? - Yes, out of that parlour. From the description given from the servant that lived opposite, the prisoner was taken into custody. Nothing has been found.
Q. When did you see these articles last before you missed them? - They were seen the day before.
Q. By yourself? - Part of them, not all of them.
Mr. Knapp. You were not fortunate enough to recover any of your property. What had you seen the day before? - The bed tick and the bolster tick.
Q. What may be the value of the whole? - Two guineas. The bed tick and the bolster tick were sent to be viewed. We were about purchasing of them, they were valued at two guineas by the person that sent the bill.
Q. Were they old or new things? - New.
Q. Here is a dimity cloak, what is the value of the cloak? - It is specified there in the indictment.
I am a police officer belonging to the office in Worship street, on Friday evening, the 15th of this present month, I went in company with another officer, belonging to the said office, to apprehend the prisoner at the bar, to the Walcham-cross public house, Petticoat-lane.
Q. Did you find any thing on him? - I did not search him, he was brought up to the Public office, in Worship-street; I left it to the other officer; the other officer is not bound over.
Q. Do you live in the neighbourhood of Mr. Hodges? - Yes. On Sunday morning, the 10th of May, I got up about four o'clock and looked through the window, and saw the prisoner at the bar, I live servant at one Mr. Dottle.
Q. Does he live opposite to the house of the prosecutor, Mr. Hodges? - Yes.
Q. Is it a very wide street? - Not very wide. I see the prisoner at the bar looking on the shutters of Mr. Hodges.
Q. Did he put the shutters to? - Yes, and he opened them, and then he walked off as far as Lamb's-passage.
Q.How far is Lamb's-passage from
Q. Was it a man or a woman within, did you see? - I did not see the person that time, and he walked off and put the shutters to again, I looked and I see him return, and give a man a piece of iron at the end of Lamb's-passage, and they both walked down Lamb's-passage together. In a short time the person who received the piece of iron came back again, and walked past Mr. Whitbread's brewhouse, then the prisoner returned again in a short time; he came back and opened the shutters, and I see a man pitch two large bundles on the inside of the ledge of the window. The prisoner at the bar beckoned to a person to receive a piece of iron, and he received it from him, and the prisoner received one of the bundles, and then the person on the inside got out, and took the other, and the boy put the shutters to again, and they all three went down Lamb's-passage together, and I saw no more of them. I am perfectly sure the prisoner at the bar is the boy.
Jury. Did you know the lad before? - No, not to my knowledge.
Mr. Knapp. You was up two pair of stairs, and the window not open, of course you was looking down upon him? - Yes.
Q.Had he a round hat on? - Yes, he had.
Q.This was in Chiswell street? - Yes.
Q. Have you any watchmen there? - They were not in the street then.
Q. Any patrol? - I don't know.
Q. Don't you remember that before the magistrate a patrol appeared, and he was asked whether he could swear to the prisoner, and he could not? - The patrol was not there when I was there.
Q.Chiswell-street is a pretty wide street, is it not? - Not very wide there.
Q. Is it not as wide as the Old Bailey? - Yes, I believe it is.
Q.What part of the street is it? - Close to the brewhouse.
Q. Is it not that as wide a part as any? - I don't think it is.
Q. It was close to Whitbread's brew-house. There are a great many working all night long? - I don't know that, I am sure.
Q. Did you cry out watch? - No, I did not.
Q. You immediately went before a magistrate the next morning? - No, not till the Friday after.
Q. You never went before the magistrate at all, till you was desired by the thief-takers? - There was a person came.
Q. Did not he ask you what you knew before he went? - He did not say any thing, only that there were some prisoners taken, and he wished me to see if I knew any of them.
Q. Prisoners that were charged with robbing Mr. Hodges's house? - Yes.
Q. You had not been to make any complaint to the justice before? - No.
Q. Do you know whether any part of Mr. Whitbread's servants or family was up at this time? - No, I do not.
Q. Did you see any body passing during all this time? - Nobody passing at all.
Q.How long a time might it occupy from the time you looked out of this window, till the time you see them all go? - About a quarter of an hour.
Q.During the quarter of the hour; did you see nobody passing? - Nobody at all.
Q. Do you mean (now you know that this boy's life is in question) to say, that from a two pair of stairs, and looking down on the boy, you can swear to him? - Yes, he attracted my notice so much that I can swear to him.
I am a patrol in Bunhill-row. The watch goes off at four o'clock in the morning. I was going off the night this robbery was committed; I went down Bunhill-row, across Chiswell-street; I stopped at the pump, to get a draft of water.
Q. How far is that pump from Mr. Hodges's house? - About twelve or fourteen doors. I see a man, after I drank the pump water, advance towards me, a tall man, and made a full stop, and walked back; which I thought very suspicious. He then immediately crossed over the way from where he was, to Grub-street, and stopped there to make water. I went slowly after him. He looked round at me. After he had done, he crossed over the way to me, and went down Bunhill-row and through Cherry-tree-alley, into Chiswell-street again. When he came into Chiswell street, he came up to a gentleman's door, as they told me had been robbed, and he rubbed with his finger against the door or the shutter, I cannot tell which.
Q. What distance were you from the man who was knocking at the door or the shutter, at that time? - About eight doors from him.
Mr. Knapp. How long a time were you in Chiswell-street? - I look upon it, till high on half an hour.
Q.How near were you ever to Mr. Hodges's house during that time? - I was within sight the whole time. I see a man come out of there, but that was another man that came out of there.
Q. Did you see a third man? - I never see a third man.
Q. What time was this? - About ten minutes after four when I first came up to the pump.
Q. To Hoshaw. What time do you six it to be that which you saw? - A few minutes before four struck.
Q. To Austin. Were either of these two you saw the prisoner at the bar? - No, that is not the person that I saw there. I was sent for by a police officer, to know whether I knew the two prisoners at the bar to be them that I saw in Chiswell-street that morning? - I told his lordship, that they were not the men that I saw that morning, that was one, the other I do not see here.
Q. That being one that you saw at the police office, was he one of these men that you saw that night? - No. He was not.
Q. You say it was ten minutes after four when these men walked up to you? - Thereabouts.
Q. You say one knocked at a door, or shutter? - Yes, and another came out about three minutes afterwards.
Q.How came you not to stop them? - When he came out from there, he had such a clean shirt, clean neckcloth, I thought the one had called the other up to go and take a walk out, it being so fine a morning.
Jury. Did not you venture to speak to him? - Never spoke a word.
Q. Did you see the state of the house? - Yes, I did, and I saw it was all fast.
Q. Did any part of the house appear to be forced? - Not by me; I only looked with my naked eye at the door.
- CHRISTMAS Sworn.
I am a shoe-maker; my wife sells salop, and that time she laid-in in the City Hospital, in the City-road.
Q. Where did you sell salop? - Facing Chiswell street.
Q. How near is that from where you sell salop to Mr. Hodges's house? - About sixty yards.
Q. Did you see any thing particular that
Q. Did you see any men about that night? - Not to my knowledge. A person came to me, on Friday evening last, and asked me if any body was there that sold salop. He said, I must come to the magistrate's office in Worship street immediately; and after I was sworn, the justice asked me if I recollected any body that came up to my stall that morning in a brown coat, a tall man? I told him I did not.
Q.Did you ever see the prisoner at the bar in Chiswell-street that night? - I did not.
Q. How long were you selling salop? - From a little before four till nine o'clock.
Q. Do you know Lamb's-passage? How far may that be from you? - That may be about a hundred yards.
GUILTY, of larceny only . (Aged 14.)
Transported for Seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Q. Were these articles stole from your shop? - Yes. I keep a pawnbroker's shop . The prisoner at the bar came into the shop; she had been to make affidavit for an article, I went up stairs to fetch the article; when I came down stairs, I missed a gown that was hung up. The prisoner was gone. On this loss, (her daughter the came in with her was in the shop) I recollected what sort of a gown it was, and I sent my servant out after her, and I went out after her, and found her at the corner, of the street where I live. I found nothing on her.
Q. Have you kept the property, or put it into the hands of a constable? - Put it in the hands of a constable. I sent for a constable, and had her taken up.
Q. Do you know any thing about her, what her mode of living is? - I do not.
Q. Are you a servant to the last witness? - Yes.
Q.Did you see the woman in the shop the day that your master speaks of? - Yes.
Q. Were you left in the shop when he went up stairs? - Yes.
Q. Your master came down, what became of the woman? - The woman was gone out of the shop.
Q. Did you miss any thing before your master came down? - No.
Q.What did you after the goods were missing? - I went after the woman.
Q. By your master's desire? - Yes; she was standing about a hundred yards from our door. I asked her, if she had been in our shop? she asked, what shop? I said, Mr. Kendall's.
Q.Why did you ask her that question? - I recollected her to be the same woman that I saw in the shop
Q. What did she say to that question? - She said, no; I told her she had, and that she had taken a gown; I pulled her cloak on one side and pulled the gown from under her arm.
Q. Did you carry her back? - Yes.
Q. Who did you give the gown to? - To my master; it is a blue striped one.
I am a constable belonging to St. Luke's; I produce a gown, I got it from the prosecutor.
Q.Did you find any thing on her? - I found a weight and a knife.
Prosecutor. This is the gown.
Craven. That is the gown I took from the prisoner.
Prisoner. I went into Mr. Kendall's, the pawnbroker's, with my daughter. As I went in, two women came out. While Mr. Kendall was up stairs I went to the door, and saw that gown lay at the door, and picked it up, and walked to and fro before Mr. Kendall's shop for ten minutes, watching the child, and the maid servant came up and said, had I been in her master's shop? - I said, first, no, because I thought she meant the grocer's, and then she said, my master's shop; I said, who is your master? she said, Mr. Kendall's, the pawnbroker's. I instantly said, yes, and she took the gown from me.
Jury to Craven. Did the prisoner carry this gown openly or concealed? - I took it from under her cloak.
GUILTY . (Aged 40.)
Twelve months in the House of Correction and fined 1s .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I am a servant to Mr. Bristow. I went to pay a visit to a friend, Mr. Smith, in Charles street, Hatton garden ; I lost the cloak there, out of a room where I was in. I went to his house at four o'clock, it was taken away about twenty minutes or half an hour before seven. The prisoner was in the room when I left the room.
Q. Was he one of the company? - No, he was nothing to me; it is a public house. I knew nothing further of him than his using the house.
Q. Was his cloak left in the tap room? - No, next to the tap room.
Q. Were there many other people in that room besides you and the prisoner? - There was myself, Mr. Smith and his mother, and the prisoner, and two more people; I left the room and went into the bar, and the prisoner was in the room when I left the room.
Q. Were the other people left in the room with the prisoner? - Yes, two more people; but the prisoner was the last that left the room.
Q. How do you know it? - There was
Q. Did you go into the room and find him alone? - No, I was the next person that went into the room, I went in for my cloak, and he was gone.
Q. Did you see him in the room by himself? - Yes, and he came to the bar, I see him through the bar window, by himself, Mr. Smith was gone out about some business, and I said to Mrs. Smith -
Q. Did you ever find your cloak? - Yes, I was going home, and I called at a pawnbroker's in Shoe-lane, and I found it at the pawnbroker's; I knew it by the lace, and two joinings in the hood, and it is my own making.
Mr. Knowlys. This little room where you went with Mr. Smith and his mother, opens into the tap room? - No, it opens into a little passage, close by the tap room.
Q. Now, there were two persons there, strangers to you, besides this man, and you left these persons in the room likewise, as well as this man? - Yes.
Q. For a considerable time? - It might be half an hour, or not so much.
Q. You left these three persons in the room, and they went out at different times? - The woman and the other man went out partly together.
Q. There was a woman in the house, a stranger to you? - Yes, a stranger to me, but not to the house.
Q. Are you the master of the public house in Charles-street, Hatton street? - Yes
Q. Was she in a room adjoining to the tap room? - Yes, she was.
Q. Do you remember the day? - The 16th of April, on Thursday; I believe it was about five o'clock in the afternoon; the prisoner came into the room soon after; there were two or three people there.
Q. Do you know whether any cloak was missing of Mrs. Clarke's? - I had occasion to go out on a little business, when I came back I was informed that a cloak was lost; a person was going into the country from my house, I told her I would see her to the stage, and after that would go to as many pawnbrokers as I could; that evening, going down Shoe-lane, I went to Mr. Cottle, and found the cloak there; Mr. Clarke was with me.
Mr. Knowlys. Who were these other persons who were in the tap room? Do you know their names? - I know each of their names, I have known them for some time, they have used my house.
Q.And so had the prisoner? - Yes, he had.
Q. He did not come in with these other persons? - He did not.
Q. Your house is a house of a good deal of business? - We do a good deal of business.
Q. There was a good many people in the tap room? - It is a time of day that we are rather slack of business; our business runs in the morning, middle of the day, and evening,
Q. Probably not less than ten or twelve at that time? - I cannot say the number; in the course of the time the prisoner at the bar was in the house, there might be fifty people, but not to stop.
Q. I believe the prisoner came the next morning again? - No, I see the prisoner the same evening.
Q. Did you inform him there had been a cloak lost? - I did. The day following likewise I see him.
Q.Did you then inform him again of a cloak being lost? - I did.
Q. Did the prisoner, though he knew
Q. That he had not spent all the money that he had got for the cloak? - Yes.
Q. You was examined before the justice, was not you? - Not till after he was taken up.
Q. You were then on your oath. Did you ever mention any thing like this before the justice? - I was not asked any question.
Q. Did you know this then or not? - Yes, I perfectly knew it, for he insulted me when I went to him, he acknowledged he had spent the money he had got for the cloak.
Q. He insulted you? - He made use of language that is not proper to mention in this court, nor any where else.
Q. So you knew this before the justice, and never mentioned a word of it? - I considered it would be impertinent in me not to mention more than I was asked; the justice put many questions to me, and when I was on an argument, he said, it is not necessary for you to say any thing, but answer the questions I ask you. I I give you my word I forgive him.
Q. I should like some how or other, to know what he said to you, because we see how far your forgiveness goes. How did he abuse you, did he call you a thief? - No, he did not; when I went in, he says, Smith, how are you, my boy? you are a good natured fellow; I said Mr. Thomas, I am come about more serious business; he said -
Q. What day was this? - This I think was the day following.
Q. Was that the day that he told you that he had not spent all the money for the cloak? - Yes.
Q. Do you mean that you took him up that day? - I will recollect myself if you please. He was taken up on Saturday, but I think he told me this on Friday. The prosecutor lives in the country. He was taken up at the Coach and Horses, in Holborn.
Q. That was the very place where you had seen him before, in the same place where he had made this confession to you as you would have us believe? - He certainly did.
The prisoner brought a cloak to my place, my husband is a taylor, we live in Stonecutter-street.
Q.When did he bring the cloak to you? - On the 16th, on Thursday night, between six and seven, I am not positive to a few minutes. The prisoner said, that he had a little money to raise, that he had a bill or execution to pay, and he had but an hour to pay it, and he was short, and he had taken his wife's cloak to raise the money with. I see the cloak, but I can say nothing about it, I was big with child.
Q. Was it a black silk cloak? - Yes.
Q. Had it lace on it? - Yes. He said he could not go out of the place, because the people were after him, he wanted some person at my house to go to a pawn broker's with it, he asked me to go.
Mr. Knowlys. This cloak was pawned as your cloak? - No, I suppose not.
Q. Did you carry it yourself? - No, my little girl.
I am a pawnbroker, servant to Mr. Cottle; I produce a black silk cloak.
Mary Lovey .
Q. You have kept it from that time to this? - Yes.
Q. Did the prisoner give it your daughter in your presence? - Yes. My daughter pawned it directly.
I am an officer belonging to Hatton-garden.
Q. Did you take up this prisoner? - On Sunday, the 18th of April, I took him out of a public house, the Coach and Horses, Holborn, took him to the office, searched him, and found nothing on him.
Prosecutor. It is my cloak.
Q. What will become of you if you tell a story? - Go the naughty man.
Mr. Knowlys. Have you ever been taught your catechism? - No.
Q. Do you ever say your prayers? - Yes, night and morning.
Q. What prayers do you say? - Our Father, &c.
Q. Do you know whether it is a good thing or a bad thing to tell a story? - It is a bad thing.
Q. Did you ever take an oath in your life? - No.
Q. You was before the justice, did he ask you to take an oath? - No.
Court. Look at that man, do you know him? - Yes.
Q. Had you ever seen him in your house? - Yes. He came and asked my daddy something; my daddy was at work, and my daddy told him to go into the other room.
Q.Did he bring any thing at any time when he came to your house? - Yes; he fetched a black cloak once.
Q. Do you know what day it was? - I believe it was Thursday.
Q. Were your mother there at that time? - Yes, she was at work.
Q. What did you do with that cloak? - He told me to go to the pawnbrokers with it, in shoe-lane.
Q. Did you carry the same cloak you received of him to the pawnbroker? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. Did your mammy see what passed? - Yes, she did.
Q. Did not your mammy tell you to pawn it? - No, he did.
Q. What is your mammy's name? - Lovey; I don't know her other name.
Q. What name did you pawn it in? - In my mother's, because I did not rightly know his name.
Q. You pawned it in your mother's christian name? - Mr. Cottle did not ask me what was the name, for he always puts it in that name, because he knows the name.
Q. To Phillips. How came you to put it in the name of Mary? - Her mother is always put down in that name in our shop.
Q.Has this little girl ever been to pawn things for the mother before? - Yes, a great many times; the mother has used the shop for ten or eleven years.
Q. To the Girl. Do you think you should know the cloak again? - Yes, I should.
Mr. Knowlys. Your mamma and papa
Prisoner. I know nothing at all about it. The reason that brought me to Mr. Lovey's house, he had made clothes for me before, and when I went there were two or three in his house. That is all I know about it.
The prisoner called four witnesses who gave him a good character.
GUILTY . (Aged 46.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex jury before Mr. RECORDER.
HUGH EVANS Sworn.
I live in Clipstone-street, No. 2; I keep a shop. On the 13th of May, I was serving a person in the shop, and I noticed the prisoner turning into my passage; knowing my yard was full of linen, I suspected he wanted to steal the linen. As soon as I had done serving the person, I stepped out of the parlour; there is a door that opens out of the parlour into the passage, and I opens this door, and I see the prisoner standing near to the top of the kitchen stairs; I asked him who he wanted? he told me that he wanted a person up stairs; that was all I could get out of him. I took hold of his collar and told him, I believe you are a thief; he had his right hand under his great coat; I perceived some bulk there, and I felt it, and found it was a quart pot; I looked out to see if I could see any of Mr. Llewyn's men about the door, he lives opposite me, and I see the boy, and I desired the boy to send his master over to me; and in the mean time, just before Mr. Llewyn came over, the prisoner stooped down and put the pot on the ground, and said that he had no pots. When Mr. Llewyn came over I told him that I catched that man stealing his pots, and I shewed Mr. Llewyn the pot that came out of his pocket; Mr. Llewyn took up the pot and said it was his property; Mr. Llewyn took the pot in one hand and him in the other, and led him out of the door.
Q. Do you know where the pot had been before this man came into the house? - Some of my lodgers, I suppose, had beer in it; I had not seen it till he pulled it out of his pocket. I thought he was going after my linen in the yard.
Q. Was the back door open? - Yes, it was.
Prisoner. He did not catch the pot on me; It was set down in the passage.
Llewyn. After I had dragged him into the street, I took him twenty yards, and I felt something else come against my knee; and I said, you have more pots about you; and there were two more quarts and three pints on him at that time, none of them belonging to me.
Q. Did he say he had no more pots about him? - Yes, he did say so before we took him out. After the neighbours came, and we took him into our own house, tied all the six pots together, and went to the public office; we marked our pots with different marks at the bottom, and he was committed from the office.
Q. Do you serve Mr. Evans's lodgers with beer? - I serve some of them, and some of them I do not; I believe there is one in the house I do not serve.
Q. You are sure that pot is your's? - Yes, I am.
Prisoner. I picked up these pots and put them in my pocket. I work for Mr. Cliff, in Swallow-street, he puts me in possession very often; he has attended these two days, but to day he has got an appraisement. I have a wife and six children; and I have been forced to be beholden to a friend to keep me since I have been in this predicament.
GUILTY . (Aged 49.)
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
287. ANN MARTIN was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 18th of April , a linen shirt, value 6s. a linen sheet, value 6s. a table cloth, value 3s. two linen pillow cases, value 4s. three muslin handkerchiefs, value 4s. two pair of cotton stockings, value 2s. and a muslin cap, value 1s. the goods of Michael Sullivan .
Q. You are the wife of Michael Sullivan ? - Yes. Ann Martin has robbed me of a parcel of linen in my little apartment, parlour and bed chamber, both in one, No. 3, Newtoner's-lane . On Friday night I packed up all my dirty linen, and laid them under the table; the next morning my husband went out to work and left the parlour door open, and at the same time the prisoner took the opportunity of coming into the parlour and taking the property out of it.
Q. What time did your husband get up in the morning? - At six o'clock.
Q. What o'clock did you get up? - About seven, I was all the time awake after him till I got up; and when I got up I went to open my little shop, and Ann Martin was sitting on the stairs at the time, and she took the opportunity of going and taking the things away. In about half an hour after I went for an apron that was in the bundle, and missed the goods and her; and I had a suspicion that she had committed the robbery. I looked after my property, and I met her five weeks after, with my cap and handkerchief on her; I met her in a public house, a good way down Drury lane; I charged her with the watch, and accordingly he detained me in the watch-house, as well as her; and she openly declared, in the watch-house, to stealing my clothes, and selling the whole to one Mr. Stevenson. I thought that she had pawned the things, and that was the reason I said I should be very glad to have nothing to do with her, if she would give me the duplicates; she told me she never had pawned them at all.
Q. You are sure it was that woman that was on the stairs that very morning that you lost your things? - Yes. I believe she laid in the passage all night. I spoke to her before the robbery was committed; I thought my little was in danger, by her laying in the passage; she had come in and out of my shop three or four times before.
Q. What have you got there? - Things that I bought, a sheet, a shirt, &c.
Q. Do you keep a clothes shop? - Yes, in King-street, Seven dials. I bought them on the 18th of April, Saturday, about twelve o'clock, of the prisoner I believe; I rather think it is the same, but I have so many people come into my shop that I can hardly tell the features.
Q. You see her at Bow-Street? - Yes; and I see her in my own shop when the
Q. Do you doubt it in the least? - I don't know as for doubt, I have so many people come into my shop. I think it is the same, but I cannot justly swear.
Q. Had you any doubt when you was before the justice? - I could not really recollect her features, I think it is the same I bought these things of. I cannot produce them all, I have sold part. I have a sheet, table cloth, pillow case, two mens neckcloths, and two odd stockings. I sold a shirt, a pillow case, and one pair of stockings.
Q. About what time of day did you buy them? - About twelve o'clock, she came and said she was distressed, she had got some things to sell.
Q. Had she ever been in your shop before? - Never.
Prisoner. Will you swear that I was the person? - I rather think it is the person, It was the 18th of April, she sold these things, and the 15th of May when the officer brought her in.
On the 14th of May, I was on duty, and the prosecutor and one of our watchmen brought the prisoner as a charge to me, and the prosecutor there declared, that this cap and handkerchief that was on her person was her's, which I have had in my possession ever since.
Prisoner. The prosecutor gave me the cap and handkerchief, about a week before she said she lost these things, and perhaps she said I might get something better to do than be in the manner I was. When she took me a prisoner, she said, she would hang me, and that the cap and handkerchief I had on was her's. I said, Yes, they were; she said she would to swear to them, and took me into custody.
Prosecutor. This cap had a burn in it by the candle, and I put this piece in myself, the handkerchief had a tare in it when I lost it, the sheet is mine, the things were wrapped up in it, they are all mine.
Court. Did you give her any of these things? - I tied them all up for my own use in a bundle.
GUILTY . (Aged 23.)
Three months in Newgate , and fined 1s .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
LIDDLE THIRLWALL sworn.
On the 19th of May, the prisoners at the bar, came to my shop in St. John's-street . (I am a linen draper ,) about two o'clock, or a little after, they both came together, they bought some muslin, and some Irish cloth; my boy served them with a square of muslin, they seemed to be very difficult, I was then serving two customers; I left my customers that I was serving, and went to them, and I served them three quarters of a yard of Irish cloth. After that, my young man was just come down from dinner, and I desired him to serve them with the remainder of the articles. A person came in that I had some business to do with concerning the poors rates, (I was overseer last year) says she to me I see the man put something into his pocket, (they were gone out then) in consequence of that, my servant went out and brought the man and woman back.
Q.Was any thing found on them, when they were brought back? - Yes,
Jury. Had they purchased any cambrick of you? - Not Cambrick of me; I believe my man served them with a small quantity of cambrick.
Q. What did you serve them with yourself? - Three quarters of a yard of Irish, at two and eight-pence a yard; my man brought the man first, and then soon after went and found the woman.
Q. You are shopman to Mr. Thirlwall? - Yes, I am, I did not see them come in; I came down from dinner, and I served them with one eighth of cambrick, and a pair of cotton stockings; I received pay for three quarters of a yard of cloth that Mr. Thirlwall sold them.
Q. Did they buy any thing else? - Not of me.
I am an apprentice to Mr. Thirlwall. Last Tuesday afternoon the prisoner at the bar came into the shop about two o'clock, I cannot exactly say; Archer asked to look at a muslin handkerchief, with a striped border; I persuaded him not to have one, as they were out of fashion; I told him I would shew him some jackanott muslin; the first he thought was too large, I shewed him then one, of which he had a square, and paid for it; I went up to dinner; Mr. Thirlwall knocked, I came down from dinner, and Mr. Thirlwall desired I would go for a constable; as I was going up the street I heard the cry of stop thief.
I am a coach-wheelwright's wife; I was at Mr. Thirlwall's, these people were in before me; while I was getting a receipt for some taxes, some poors rates; I see the man put his hand on the counter, and take something and put it in his pocket, he turned out of the shop, and I told Mr. Thirlwall of it.
Q. Did you see what it was he took? - No. He sent the shopman out after him.
Q. You see him take something. Did he go out directly? - No, I believe he was looking at some stockings, he bought the stockings afterwards, and paid for them, and then he went.
Q. Did they go out together? - Yes.
Q. You did not see the woman do any thing? - No.
Q. Did you see them brought back? - No, I went home.
Prisoner. What was it that I put in my pocket? - It was something that you took out of a blue paper, the blue paper was on the counter; and it was something from under that paper, while the shopman was gone to get the stockings.
Q. Did you see what it was? - No, I cannot say what it was.
Court to Stevens. When the alarm was given you went in pursuit of the persons immediately? - I went towards Smithfield, I mistook the way; and after going towards Smithfield, coming back I looked up St. John's-lane, and see them crossing St. John's-lane, I went up St. John's-lane, and met them, and told the man he must come along with me; almost at the same time Mr. Dobson called, you have lost your handkerchief, sir. I turned about immediately, and picked up a remnant of cambrick, I was convinced at that time the man was a thief, and I seized him; then Mr. Dobson called out, there are more goods you have dropped, or something to that purpose; I looked
Q. What became of the woman? - She ran away in the mean while, she ran under an arch way, and was out of sight immediately; when I passed the arch way she was out of sight; I told Mr. Thirlwall to take care of the man, while I went in search of the woman; I went back again, and searched two or three houses in this yard, it was no thoroughfare, and I was told she was hid, and she ran out of a front door, and a woman told me, and I ran after her, and took her in George's court, in St. John's-lane, and took her home, and the constable was charged with them.
Q. What have you got in your hand there? - The three remnants that were picked up, a remnant of buttiller, a kind of muslin, and India article, and two remnants of cambrick.
Q. Had either of those been sold by you? - Neither; he had bought some cambrick, one eighth, which was in the parcel that I took from the woman; I searched the man's pockets, nothing was found in them belonging to us; I did not search the woman, there was a lady in the house that did, there was nothing found on her.
Q. What became of the things that he bought? - I gave them to him at the justice's.
Q. Who had them in possession when they were taken? - The woman, she gave them to me.
Q. From whom did these remnants drop? - I did not see them, I supposed the man dropped them, Mr. Dobson said it was the man dropped them.
Prisoner. Why were not three pieces brought against me at the first hearing at the magistrate's? there was only two brought then? - In the hurry of the moment I forgot the piece that I picked up myself, and put into my pocket.
I am a grocer in St. John's-lane, Clerkenwell. On Tuesday last, between the hours of two and three in the afternoon, the prisoner at the bar (Archer) passed by my door, and dropped two or three pieces like handkerchiefs.
Q. How came he to drop them, by accident? - That I don't know; I calls out, you have dropped your handkerchiefs; at that instant I see the prosecutor's servant take hold of him, and to him I gave the handkerchiefs.
Q. Are you sure they dropped from the prisoner? - I am certain of it, there was nobody by, I was unloading a load of sugar, and the carman was in the cart, consequently it could not fail from him.
Q. Where was the woman? - I see nothing of the woman at that time, about ten minutes after that I see Stevens in pursuit of the woman who ran up George's-court, and Stevens took hold of her.
Prisoner. I want to know the reason he did not swear to the things the first time I was before the justice? - It is not to be supposed that I can swear to things that I had not above a moment in my hands; one piece I think I can remember by the small stripes.
Q. To Stevens. These are all the same pieces you received of Mr. Dobson? - Two of them are.
Q. Whose property were they? - Mr. Thirlwall's, all three of them, I know them by the shop mark.
Harris. They all three belong to Mr. Thirlwall, I sold him no cambrick at all, only a square of muslin.
Q. Do you recollect whether they were on your counter that day? - Yes, they were.
Prisoner. I know nothing about that property, how it came behind me. I belong to Drury-lane play House all the winter, and I belonged to the Opera House all the last season; I am in the ballad line; I am a foreigner.
George Demery Archer, GUILTY .(Aged 22.)
Mary Latham, Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
Q.Had he ever worked with you? - No, I have let him do a job or two at the vice.
Q. How did you lose your vice, and when? - I lost it out of my shop, between the 7th and 8th of April, it was locked up in my shop, and the padlock was taken off.
Q. Had you seen your vice that night? - Yes, I had worked on it till seven o'clock; I don't know as to the square, I am sure as to the vice and burnisher.
Q. Why do you charge the prisoner with it - News was brought me that he was taken, and I was told there was a vice found much like mine, and I went to the place with the constable; that was three weeks after I had been robbed; I said when I was before the justice that it was much about a fortnight, but it was three weeks.
I am head borough of St. John's, Clerkenwell; I went to this prisoner's house on the 20th, to look after this vice; I had taken him before that; he lives in the Bowling Green, St. James's, Clerkenwell. As soon as the prosecutor came to that place, he said the vice was his property; the vice is here.
Q.What else did you find there besides the vice? - The square, belonging to Mr. Spencer, and this burnisher; I took the things up to the officer; the prisoner was up at the office at the time, I had taken him on other information.
I went along with Mr. Burne, and I see the vice fixed up at his bench; I picked up the square myself in the house, and I gave it to Mr. Spencer
Prosecutor. I know the vice from ten thousand, and the prisoner at the bar knows it himself, from working at it.
Prisoner. I bought that vice at an old iron shop; I went out to buy some tea, and I met the constable, and one or two of these men, and they gave charge of me, and I said, for what? There were a great many things found there that I bought at this old iron shop, and I gave two pence a pound for them altogether.
GUILTY . (Aged 46.)
Twelve months in the House of Correction and fined 1s .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
THOMAS HARDWICKE was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 29th of April , two mahogany tea caddies, value 10s. a mahogany tea chest, value 3s. an earthen jar, value 1s. the goods of William Hicks .
291. WILLIAM WYBROW , JOHN SKIVINGTON , SUSANNA LEE , and ELIZABETH PHILLIPS , were indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John White , about the hour of nine in the night, on the 1st of April , and burglariously stealing therein, two silver table spoons, value 1l. a silver punch ladle, value 10s. two silver tea spoons, value 3s. two pair of silver sugar tongs, value 10s. two silver salt holders, value 10s. three silk gowns, value 3l. a silk petticoat, value 5s. a satin petticoat, value 2l. four printed cotton gowns, value 3l. a printed cotton petticoat, value 5s. two silk cloaks, value 1l. a yard of satin ribbon, value 2d. a bank note, No. 579, value 300l. another bank note, No. 5053, value 30l. the goods and property of the said John White .(The case opened by Mr. Knapp.)
Q. What time did you go to bed on this night of the robbery? - A little after eleven o'clock, on the 5th of April.
Q. Whose business was it that night to take care to secure the house? - It is my business, and I always make it my business to fasten my own windows up; I fastened them up the 5th of April, at eleven o'clock; we shut them up every night at eleven, except Saturday night.
Q. Did you make your door fast then? - Yes.
Q.How soon did you discover the robbery? - We did not discover at all till we were going to bed, a little after eleven, we discovered it unlocking the door, and going into the bed room and finding my drawers open and the window open.
Q. How high is it from the ground? - I really cannot tell you. I fastened it down my own self, at five o'clock the 5th of April, and I found it up when I went to bed, my drawers were open, and my clothes were gone.
Q. How was your window fastened? - It was fastened by a little iron that hooked into an iron nut; there were no shutters at the window.
Q. Are you sure it was fast? - I am quite sure of it. I fastened it myself and afterwards went back to try if it was fast myself.
Q. How late had you seen it safe? - I see it safe at nine o'clock.
Q. You say all your drawers were open? - No. Some of them. I missed my gowns, a black silk gown and coat, a brown silk gown, &c. and several other things, part of my bed furniture.
Q. Did you miss any bank notes? - No, my husband had the bank notes unbeknown to me.
Q. How did they undo this sash fastening? - I really cannot tell but I think they must force it open some how or other on the outside.
Q. How high is your window from the ground? - It is a one pair of stairs window. I have no idea of the height.
Q. How high is your tap room? - It is even to the court where I live.
Q. Is it flush with the pavement? - All but very little.
Q. Is it above the height of a man from the ground? - Yes, above the height of two men from the ground.
Q.Have you lost all these things in the indictment? - Yes, more than that; I lost bed furniture.
Q. Did you lose any ribbons? - Yes, and I have got a piece here, and, to the best of my knowledge, this is it, but I really cannot swear.
Q. Is it satin ribbon? - Yes, it is.
Q. You are the husband of the last witness? - Yes.
Q. We have heard that your house was broke open, what did you lose? - A three hundred pounds bank note, and a thirty pounds bank note, out of this little pocket book.
Q. Where was the pocket book put? - In my little drawer, where my shaving things were.
Q. Do you recollect the number of the thirty pounds bank note? - Yes, 5053.
Q.Do you recollect the number of the other? - Yes, 579.
Q. Have you ever seen the thirty pounds bank note again? - Yes, I have seen it since, but I have not seen the number, but only the value of it.
Court. Have you ever seen the three hundred pounds one? - No, never.
Mr. Knapp. How lately had you seen these bank notes? - At four o'clock that afternoon, when I went up to shave myself.
Q. Did you observe the manner in which these persons had got in? - They got in at the window; the sash was up as high as it could be lifted.
Q. How high is that window from the ground? - About ten feet.
Q. How was the furniture of the room? - The drawers were all about the room, some of them on the bed, some on the toilet, some on the floor, some in one place, and some in another.
Court. You say the window was about ten feet from the ground? - More than that, I suppose.
Mr. Knapp. Is the window facing the street? - It comes into Bethlem-court.
Q. What day of the week was this? - The 5th of April, Easter Sunday.
Q. You had no alarm of this till your wife went up? - No, no alarm at all.
Court. How did they get in? - I cannot tell. There is a little bow window, they trod on that, and there is irons to the lamp.
Q. Were they seen about there at all in the neighbourhood? - No, I cannot say that; I had seen them that evening.
Q. You belong to Worship street? - Yes. On Monday the 6th of April, at night, I went, in company with Ray,&c, to a house in a place called Queen's square, or King's-square, in the neighbourhood of Brick-lane; there I found the four prisoners, in the lower apartment. I searched Wybrow, I found four guineas, which I returned him, I searched Skiving on, and found some money on him, which I returned him. On searching Mrs. Wybrow, or Phillips, I found a new five pounds bank note, and a guinea and a half. There was no money taken that night. I then went up stairs with Wybrow and the woman, and he put his hand in a basket, and took out this little box; there was nine guineas in it. I took that and kept it. One woman was taken into custody that night, two of the men, and Mrs. Wybrow. In the morning they were taken to the magistrate's, and I had orders to search him afterwards, which I did at
Q. Whose house was it in King-square, Brick-lane? - Wybrow desired the place to be locked up, and the goods to be taken care of.
Q. Where does the other prisoner live? - I don't know; I never see him till that night, to my knowledge.
Q. This thirty pounds note you have had in your custody ever since? - Yes, ever since the day it was delivered; it is marked on the back.
Q. Were you with the last witness at the apprehending of the prisoner? - No, not till the next day, I see him at the office.
Q. Did you search him? - I did not. After a little information that Mr. Arm strong and I received, we went to the Bank, and being holiday time, we heard nothing about the notes there. We, according to a little information, went from the Bank to the different haberdasners and linen drapers in Bishopsgate-street, and that way, and we went to that linen draper where it was changed, and we went and apprehended Wybrow's sister afterwards.
Q.What note was it? - A thirty pounds note. I have these things that I found at Wybrow's lodgings. This here property is the property of Wybrow's sister, that she bought at the time that she changed the thirty pounds note, and here is the other property I found in Wybrow's lodging, all new property, the property of the two young women at the bar.
Q. Who is Wybrow's sister? - Her name is Lee.
Q. Who does the other belong to? - All the whole belongs to the two young women.
Q. Did she say it was her's? - Yes, I believe she did. Here is a counterpane taken from the lodgings: that never was owned by any body, but I was told to keep it.
Mr. Alley. These people were not all committed for a burglary, two for a burglary, and two for another offence? - I don't know that.
Q. You know there is a reward of forty pounds a piece for a burglary? - Yes, I do.
Mr. Knapp. Was Ray with you? - Yes, he was at finding these things at the lodging.
Q. Were you with the last witness at the lodgings of Wybrow? - Yes.
Q. Did you see these things found? - I did.
Q. Will you tell us what you know of this matter? - I was in company with Armstrong, and two or three others of the public officers, on Monday the 6th of April. I went to the house of Wybrow, and searched the house, and in a closet, among some rubbish, I found two guineas wrapped up in a bit of paper. We secured the prisoners, and they were taken before the magistrate, on the Tuesday following. I was in the yard where they were locked up, in different lock-up-houses; I heard some conversation pass between the two prisoners in the
Q. Who was the conversation between? - Skivington and Wybrow.
Q.Did you know these men before? - I knew Wybrow perfectly well; I knew his voice perfectly well.
Q. Were there any other persons in these lock-up-houses but these two - There were not; they were in separate lock-up-houses.
Q. Could they see each other? - No, they are situated one joined to the other. I heard Skivington say to Wybrow, provided it was not found out where the thirty pounds note was changed, all the rest of the property was quite safe. Skivington then said, they were gone to bone Joel. Wybrow made answer, and said, I am sure they don't know where he lives.
Q. What did you understand by boning of him? - Take him into custody.
Q. You understood it so? - Yes, it is a word that is made use of very frequently. Skivington says, they will find him, and if they do, he will split; I imagine that is telling the truth, impeach.
Q. After they said Joel would split, was there any other conversation? - Skivington said, that Harper and Armstrong were gone round to all the linen drapers, to see if they could find out where the small note was changed. Wybrow said, I hope they will not hit on the right; and there was some conversation about a cloak that were taken out of Wybrow's house. Wybrow said, that the landlord, White, seemed to own the cloak last night. Skivington said, no, Bill, you are wrong there; he did not, on account of his wife's not being there. Wybrow said, if he was examined before the magistrate, he could point out a thing in the cloak that they knew nothing at all about. Skivington said, my mother came to me in the watch-house; I gave her all the money that I had, except one half guinea. Skivington said, I told her that there were nine guineas, which his mother had agreed to come and swear it was her property before the magistrate the next day.
Q. Was there any more conversation? - No, I believe that is all the conversation that I heard pass between them. I communicated it to the magistrate immediately I heard it.
Q. Did you produce any thing yourself? - Only the money that I found among the rubbish.
Mr. Knowlys. How long have you been an officer at this Public office? - Nigh three years.
Q. I do not recollect your ever coming here before to recollect conversation? - Yes, I did once.
Q. About what time of the day did this pass? - It was in the forenoon; it might be between twelve and one.
Q. How are these lock-up-houses situated with regard to each other? - They join to each other.
Q. Is there any window that commu nicates to the wall of the two? - There is a window to each that looks into the yard.
Q.There is no window between the partition of each? - No, there is a very thick partition that parts the lock-up-houses, and they are obliged to speak very loud, or else they cannot make one another understand.
Q. How many yards is this from the office itself? - It joins the office; there is a door that goes into the office only, it is a few steps, or else it is in a line.
Q. Was there any one of the justices sitting at this time? - There was.
Q. And I suppose as it almost always happens when the justice is sitting, a great number of people are in the justice room - In general there is a great number of people.
Q. Is there any body else come to prove this conversation besides yourself? - I believe not.
Q. It did not disturb the justice as he was going on with the examination? - There were two doors that were shut.
Q. But what I want to know is, whether the justice sent out to quiet these two noisy fellows, because you know they talked very loud, as you and I do now? - They did talk very loud.
Q. Then what I want to know is this, whether the justice did not send out to quiet these two noisy fellows that disturb ed him while he was doing his business? - The justice if he had been on the bench, could not have heard it.
Q. And yet you say that the door of this lock-up-place goes into the office itself? - No, I do not; there is a door opens, then there is another door, and then another door after that, before you go into the office.
Q. There is a public house near this lock-up-house, a little nearer than the office? - No.
Q. They could hear them in the public house plain enough? - No, there is a very high wall that is built.
Q. Where did you happen to be when this conversation took place. I was standing on the step of the passage door that comes out of the office.
Q. Then there was one of these doors removed? - But there were two after that.
Q. But you describe three doors, you had opened one of the doors; they did not perceive you of course? - They did not.
Q. As you found him going on, did you make any sign to any of your brother officers to come and hear this pretty story? - I did not.
Q. That would have been unlucky, if any body else could have proved it as well as yourself, because you are a man of that character, that you don't want con firmation? - No, I do not.
Q. Therefore it depends on your single testimony? - What I have said is nothing but the truth.
Q. There is no reward in case if either these people are convicted - Yes, there is.
Q. What is the reward in case Wybrow is convicted? - There is forty pounds.
Q. What is the reward in case the other is convicted? - Just the same.
Q. Just the same. Stroking the chin is a very easy thing. So this lucky conversation, you believe, will entitle you to eighty pounds reward? - Very likely part of it.
Q. On the serious and solemn oath you have taken, do not you expect to receive a part of eighty pounds reward, if they are convicted; don't you expect to have a considerable part? - I might, it is left to the discretion of the Court, it lays entirely with the Court.
Q. Don't you expect that the evidence you have given will entitle you to part of that reward? - Undoubtedly.
Q. You have no manner of doubt about it? - As being a public officer, I cannot be unacquainted with it.
Q.On your oath, had you any doubt about it at all when you told me very likely? - No, I had not.
Q. Now, good Mr. Ray, it was no secret that the officers were gone round to search the linen drapers? - No, I did not know they were gone.
Q. But they informed you when they came home what they had been out upon? - I communicated it to the magistrate, and before the face of Wybrow and Skivington.
Q. You were with Harper and Armstrong before you gave this evidence against these people? - Undoubtedly I was. I was there the next morning after they were apprehended.
Q.You had been with these people before they had been at the Bank? - In the morning we met at the office.
Q. On your oath did not you know they were gone about the thirty pounds bank note? - I did not to the best of my knowledge.
Q.Did not you consult together what you were to do about this? - I did not.
Q.If the two other women who are indicted with them are convicted, there is eighty pounds more to be divided among you? - Yes.
Q.Upon your oath, does not that yard which you go through to put their people into the lock-up-houses, belong to the public house just by? - There are three ways to the yard. It belongs to the office; there is a yard belongs to the public house; but this yard belongs to the office, no one can go in it but the officers.
Q. Any persons who were in the public house yard had just the same opportunity of hearing as you had? - I cannot say that. I stood nearer than the people of the public house could stand any way.
Q. Any body may come out as far as that door from the public house? - They might.
Q. And they were speaking so loud, that you heard them through the door? - No, I don't say so, I said there was a window to each lock-up-house, and I heard them from the windows.
Q. Did not you wonder that these men who were giving such material evidence spoke so loud on the occasion? - It is not to be wondered at at all when there is nobody else in the lock-up-houses.
Q. How far were the two windows from each other? - I suppose about five or six yards from window to window.
Q. Then there being only an occasion to convey the voice five or six yards off from the lock-up-house in which Wybrow was. Yet they were speaking as loud as people could speak? - Yes, or else they could not understand one another.
Q. So then these people were hallooing from the bottom of the den. They did not take the precaution to get up to the window? - I did not say they were hallooing they were talking very loud, and the instant I did hear what they said, I communicated it to Mr. Colquohon, one of our magistrates. They talked much louder than the ordinary way, and then they stopped three or four minutes before they went on again, and they now and then called out, Bill, which they spoke very loud.
Q.What persons did you see come out of the public house? - I could not see any person coming out of the public house, it is impossible for me to tell, for there is a high brick wall that parts this yard from the public house yard. In some places nine or ten feet, in other places it is seven feet.
Mr. Knapp. Was there any in this yard besides yourself? - No, nor no other persons in the lock-up-houses but themselves.
Court. Did they know you were there? - No they did not.
Mr. Knowlys. How long have you been an officer? - About six years.
Q.Did you ever come into a court of justice to give evidence of a conversation in a lock-up-house? - No.
- FREEMAN sworn.
I am a haberdasher in Bishopsgate-street.
Q. Had you a thirty pounds bank note in your possession? - Yes, on Monday the 6th.
Q. Do you recollect of whom you received it? - Of Mr. James, last month.
Q.Had you in your custody a thirty pounds note? - I had.
Q. Did you give it to Mr. Freeman? - I did.
Q. Should you know it again? - I should not. I know no more than it was a thirty pounds note, which I received of my young man Berwick, and I got it changed with Mr. Freeman.
JOSEPH HAYES BERWICK sworn.
Q. You live with Mr. James? - I do.
Q. Do you remember receiving a thirty pounds bank of England bill, on the 6th of April? - I do, I gave it to Mr. James for cash, with a bill of parcels.
Q. Should you know it again if you was to see it? - I should not.
Q. Of whom did you receive the thirty pounds bank of England bill? - Of Mrs. Phillips at the bar, for some things that she purchased at our shop; a piece of Irish linen I can identify, it has our private mark on it, the others I cannot.
Q. Did you give any cash in exchange? - I did not give exchange, Mr. James gave the exchange.
Q. Are you sure that the note you received of Phillips, is the same that you gave to Mr. James? - Yes, I am.
Q. To James. The same note you received of Berwick, you gave to Mr. Freeman? - The very same.
Q. To Freeman. Is that the same that you received of Mr. James? - Yes, it was. I had no other in the house. I gave Mr. James in exchange, a five pounds bank bill, almost a new one.
Q. To James. What did you do with the five pounds bank bill? - I returned and gave it to the prisoners, one of the women at the bar, they were both in the shop at the same time, I don't know to whom I gave it.
Berwick. It was Mrs. Phillips. I was standing by at the time.
Q. To James. Did you see either of the man there? - It rined before they had quite finshed all their business, a coach was sent for and two men went into other coach with them from my door.
Q. They purchased several articles, were they paid for out of this note? - They were.
Q. Did you observe either of these two men? - The one had a green coat on the same as one has on now, the other I cannot recollect. I cannot recollect neither of their persons. They got into the coach, and I gave them the goods into the coach. The men were not in my shop.
Q. You know all these prisoners at the bar? - Yes.
Q. Did you hear of this robbery being committed? - Yes.
Q. When were you in company with him? - Easter Sunday night.
Q.What happened after that? - William Wybrow came up and said, Jack, are you ready? he says, yes; and then they both went together. Jack Skivington said to me, don't wait up, for I am not coming home to night.
Q.What did you live with Jack Skivington? - Yes. They both went, and I staid up till ten or eleven o'clock, and then I went to bed; Jack Skivington came home on Monday morning, about eight o'clock, and asked me to get his breakfast ready, for he and William Wy-
Q. Do you know what a fence is? - A buyer of stolen property. He said, I am going to receive my money. I immediately got up and got him his breakfast. William Wybrow came and said, are you ready to go to the fence, to get the money? - They both went then, and Jack and William returned about eleven; they said they had got the money; says, Bill, we have not got it all. Jack directly chucked me down one guinea; and Jack Skivington cleaned himself, and said he was going out a walking with William Wybrow ; and just as he got himself cleaned, William Wybrow came up, and said, Jack, will you go and take a walk? - and I never see him any more. William Wybrow said, I have sent Betsy and Sukey with the note to the linen drapers, and hoped they would not be stopped with it.
Q. Who is Betsy? - That lady in white, Phillips.
Q. Who is Sukey? - That lady in black; I believe it is Wybrow's sister, I don't rightly know.
Harper. I produce it.
Court. Did you ask him where he had done the job? - Yes.
Q. Who was present at the time? - Nobody.
Q. Was there any other conversation at that time took place? - No.
Q. To Mrs. White. Look at that ribbon? - To the best of my knowledge it is mine; but I cannot swear to it; it was quilled up when I lost it.
Cox. It had been quilled up when I received it.
Q. You don't know the note? - No; I never see the note. William Wybrow said in my room, he had told Betsy what to say, if she was stopped with the note, says he, I told her to say a gentleman gave it her to sleep with her.
Court. When was this conversation, the same day? - Yes, on Easter Monday.
Q. You never see the note. Did you hear from them the value of the note? - No, I cannot say that I did.
Q. How long ago is it since this happened, because it is but very little time ago that you gave some account like this of some other person.
Mr. Knowlys to Owen, the gaoler. Stand forward.
Cox. I know that gentleman by going to see Jack Tomlin.
Q. Why he was a lover for a very short time. Can you tell us the name of some other of your lovers that went off short? - No.
Q. Pray how long is it since poor Tomlin was hung? - The first of April.
Q. You did not mourn a year before you took another. You were not out of your weeds before you provided yourself again. Have you ever been to give evidence here before? - I never was here in my life before.
John Drew ? - No.
Q. What was the name of that man that was transported, that you lived with? - I never lived with a man that was transported in my life.
Q. Were all hanged! You must out with the truth here? - I cannot out with what I don't know.
Q. You have been a witness here before? - No, never in my life.
Q. You have been acquainted with several of these gentlemen that came off short? - No, I never was.
Q. Upon your oath, have you never said that if Jack Skivington would live with you, you would not give evidence against him? - No, I never said so.
Q. Have you never said that you would appear against him, and would hang him, if he would not? - I never said so.
Q. About this piece of ribbon; how long had you worn it before it was taken from you? - I wore it about three or four days.
Q. Might you not have worn it a fortnight? - I cannot take my oath of that; I will not swear that I did not wear it a fortnight; I don't think that I did wear it ten days.
Q. You have been seen to wear it by other people? - No; it was the top of my head, underneath my bonnet; I was not at liberty, for any body to see it on my head.
Q. Where have you been then? - Where the gentlemen please to put me.
Court. Do you know Joel? - I have seen him two or three times; he buys stolen property.
Q. Do you know where he lives? - Somewhere in the Dog-road, but whereabouts I cannot tell you.
Q.Where did Wybrow live? - Somewhere in Brick-lane.
Q. Where did you live? - In Spitalfield, Sawyers-buildings, No. 1.
Q. To Prosecutor. Look at that note.(The thirty pounds note shewn him) - I know by this mark on it in red ink, and the No. 5053.
Q. Is that your note? - Yes.
Q. Had you that note in your custody at four o'clock in the afternoon as you described? - Yes; I am certain it is mine; the banker's clerk is here who paid it me.
Q. To Harper. Did you find any thing in the house? - Only this counterpane,(Produces it.)
Q. You are one of the keepers of Newgate, appointed by Mr. Kirby. Do you know the witness Susanna Cox? - Yes, I have known her some time.
Q. Have you ever seen her in this court before? - I cannot swear, upon my oath.
Q. Have you seen her in the gaol of Newgate? - Several times to visit people.
Q. Do you recollect Tomlinson being in gaol? - Yes.
Q. Do you recollect what other people she has come to see besides Tomlinson? - I cannot recollect.
Q. Do you know Mrs. Cox that has been a witness here? - I do.
Q. Do you recollect having any conversation with her relative to this business? - Yes, I do.
Q. You live in the same kind of way with this woman, and in the same house? - I do. On Wednesday next seven weeks, John Joel came up to our house, I cannot recollect the hour when he came up; he walked to and fro, and said that he heard that these people that stand at the bar now were in custody, and asked us if we would go down to the office to see them; Joel said, if it was so he was very sorry for it, and he would give them a shilling or two if it lay in his power. Accordingly we went and did not see them that day. Three of the officers of Worship-street after that came, Mr. Harper, Mr. Armstrong, and another gentleman, I don't know his name. On Saturday we went up to see them; we were detained and sent to gaol, I and Cox, on suspicion that we knew something about this affair; but I was discharged when I came up for reexamination. When I came up on Wednesday I was discharged, and she said she would go and speak to the magistrate, and see if she could not get discharged; she went in and staid for about two hours and half; she was not discharged. I went the next day to her; she did not tell me any thing of the affair. I think she came up again on Wednesday following; I was there, and I stopped for about two hours, and I asked her what she had been about? and she said she would hang jack Skivington by fair means or by soul, because he would not cohabit with her.
Court. Take care what you are about. Who was present? - Nobody. She called me into a little room, and asked me to give her something to drink.
Q. How long have you lived with her? - Four years, off and on. I am an engine winder by trade.
Mr. Knowlys. Do you know in point of fact, whether she ever has been a witness in this court before? - No, not to my knowledge. (A ribbon shewn her) About a fortnight before this affair, Cox took this ribbon and put it about her head for a fillet.
Court. You know this woman for four years intimately? - Yes.
Q. Knew her affairs and secrets? - Yes.
Q. How does she get her bread? - By prostitution.
Q. How do you get your bread? - In the same way; but since I have been in trouble I have thought better of my way of life.
Mr. Knapp. Who did you live with at the time that Tomlinson was tried? - One Stacey.
Q. Was not he a witness against Tomlinson? - I don't know. I was taken with the man; and when I found what he was, I mended my way of life. I think it is about six or seven months ago, to the best of my recollection.
Q. And you have lived particularly with nobody since? - No, nobody at all; I have now mended my way of life. I come up here now from Gravesend.
The prisoner Skivington called three witnesses to his character, said, that he had been an apprentice to a book-binder,
Susanna Lee, Not GUILTY .
Elizabeth Phillips, Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
292. WILLIAM MILLS was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 15th of April , fifteen silver table spoons, value 3l. ten silver desert spoons, value 1l. two silver marrow spoons, value 5s. two silver salt spoons, value 2s. the goods of John English , in his dwelling house .
Q. I keep house in Mark-lane . The articles mentioned in the indictment were missing the 15th of April, Wednesday, from the side board; and there is evidence in court that will tell you where they were.
Q. Was the prisoner a servant in the house? - He was. He came to me with a written character. I thought he was dull and heavy, not sufficiently alert, and I told him so; and I made some inquiry into his situation, which satisfied me about his character.
Q. This man from his situation in your house, had the opportunity of taking these things separately, if he had been so inclined? - I believe he did take them so, while they were in his charge.
- TRINDER sworn.
I am a pawbroker; I produce fourteen spoons, on which two guineas were lent, the fourteenth of April, Tuesday; on the 15th of April, Wednesday, I lent him three guineas on five table spoons, and three desert spoons, which he pledged in the name of John Jackson .
Q. Were they all pledged in the same name? - Yes. On April the 16th, in the morning, about half after eight o'clock, he brought two more desert spoons, which he offered to pledged; by his appearance at that time of the morning, I thought every thing was not right; I interrogated him particularly; he told me that he lived at No. 12, Green-street, Liecester-square; I asked him if he should have any objection to my going to the house to know if he lived there, as he was an entire stranger to me?
Q. Where is your shop? - St. Martin's-lane, No. 32. He said, no, none in the least; I might go and make inquiries, and find that he did live there; he was a lodger in the house. I went and made inquiry, but there was no such person lived there, nor they did not know one of the name.
Q.He did not go with you? - No, he did not; he was kept in the house.
Q. What you left him in custody? - Yes. I came back and told him I had been where he told me to go, and that they told me there was no such person lived there; he said, you have been wrong, I will go with you and point out the house to you; and going up Clement's-row he walked slowly, which made me believe that he would run away, and in Remmings-row he said, to tell you the truth, I do not live there, but in Duke-street, Westminster; I asked him if he really did live there? - he said, yes; says I, then I will go with you. At the bottom of Castle-street, I then asked him again, if he really did live there? - he said, yes; and going down the passage that leads to Mr. Paine's, the bookseller, I again asked him; and he trembled very much, and attempted to run away. I
Mr. Knowlys. There were three several pawnings of these? - No, he came three times, but two pawnings.
I live with Mr. Salter, in Fleet-street, a pawnbroker. On the 7th of April, the prisoner at the bar pledged three table spoons with me; he told me they were his own property, and that he lived at No. 6, Chancery-lane; he told me his name, John Jackson . I.I. are on the spoons.
I am a pawnbroker's servant. The prisoner pawned three table spoons, on the 4th of April, for a guinea and a half, in the name of John Jackson; and one tea spoon on the 31st of March, for two shillings and sixpence, in the name of John Jackson , No. 19, St. Mary-axe.
I am a constable of St. Martin's in the Fields. On the 16th of April I took the prisoner into custody; searching of him I found this spoon in his pocket and the duplicates of this property produced by the pawnbrokers; it is a salt spoon; six duplicates belonging to this plate, and six belonging to some other trifling property.
Trinder. Two of these duplicates I gave on these things produced.
Boyd. Here is one belongs to the things I produce.
Hinde. These two belongs to the plate that I produce.
Prosecutor. It is my plate, they have my name on them, and crest on some.
The prisoner called two witnesses who gave him a good character.
GUILTY, Of stealing to the value of 39s .(Aged 23.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
293. JOHN HULL was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 18th of May , a deal box, value 1s. a linen waistcoat, value 5s. a flannel waistcoat faced with kersemere, value 2s. 6d. a pair of thickset breeches, value 12s. a pair of stockings made of silk and cotton, value 3s. two pair of cotton stockings, value 4s. three muslin neck handkerchiefs, value 6s. a linen shirt, value 6s. and one cotton handkerchief, value 1s. the goods of James Douglas , in the dwelling house of Frances Bird , widow .
Q. Are you a lodger of Mrs. Frances Bird's? - Yes, I am a shoe-maker .
Q. How were these things taken from you, were they in a box? - Yes, all the articles in the indictment, on Monday, the 18th of May. I lodge up three pair of stairs.
Q. Did you see them taken out of the room? - I did not.
Q. When did you see them before they were taken last? - About half past seven o'clock the next morning.
Q. At what time had you an idea they were taken? - A person came down and told me that my box was taken out of the room, and I asked how it was gone? and he said there was a man took it out just now.
Q. Did you go to your room to see if it was missing? - I went out, and three men along with me, and we all three went different ways, and I accidently happened to go the right road, and light of the person with the box, reiling with it on a post, as if he might rest himself.
Q. Now, where was the place where you found the prisoner? - In Addle-street; I asked the prisoner how he came by that box? - and he did not make me any answer at all; I called for assistance, and there was a man coming past, and he went and brought a constable, I gave the constable charge of him, and got him to the beadle's house,and he seemed to be very much afraid then, and he began begging of me to let him go, and he never would do so any more.
Q. Did you take the box? - I did, and delivered it up to the constable.
Q. When you found the box was it locked? - It was, it had not been opened, I opened it at the watch-house, and the constable was there.
Q. What may the deal box be worth? - A shilling.
Q. Was there a cloth coat in it? - Yes, there was twenty shillings worth; a linen waistcoat worth five shillings; a flannel waistcoat worth two shillings and sixpence; a pair of thickset breeches worth twelve shillings.
Q. Do you think they would fell for this value that you put on them? - Yes, I do. A pair of silk and cotton stockings worth three shillings; two pair of cotton stockings worth four shillings; three muslin handkerchiefs worth six shillings; a linen shirt worth six shillings; and one cotton pocket handkerchief worth a shilling; they are not new.
I was the person that see them go out of the house, and gave the alarm. I lodge in the same house, I see him go out of the door of the house.
Q. Had he any thing with him? - Nothing further than the box on his shoulder, I could not see what person it was.
Q. What sort of a box was it? - A plain deal box.
Q. To Douglas. Was it a plain deal box your's, or was it covered with paper? - A plain deal box.
I am beadle of Aldermanbury; I was standing at my door this day week, a little above half an hour after two o'clock, and a neighbour came to me, and told me I must run away directly, there was a thief; I told him I was no constable, but if there was a thief I would go with him directly, and when I got about four doors from my own house, there I see the two witnesses that have been before your lordship, and the prisoner at the bar, with this here box; the witnesses and the prisoner were all close together; then I told him to stop a few minutes, and I would run and get a constable, and he should take charge of him; I went for a constable.
Q. When the prisoner and the prosecutor were together, did the prosecutor charge him with any thing? - Yes, he charged him with stealing his box, in which was his whole property, except what he stood up in. When the constable came they all went to my house, and I have had the box and the things
Q. In what street was it that you see these people together? - In Addle-street, the corner of Phillips's lane together, and I live at No. 4, Phillips's-lane.
I am a constable, I was sent for, and took charge of the man, and I found this picklock key and iron crow in his pocket.
Q. To Prosecutor. Had you locked the door to this room of your's, or was it left open? - It was left open.
Q. Is your name on the box? - It is not; I have had it going on four years, here is a song fastened inside which I can swear to.
Q. Have you any doubt about the things in it? - No, none in the least; the coat is what I wore.
Prisoner. I never was in the house in my life; I never wronged a man in my life; as to the box, it was left with me for five minutes, and I was to have a pint of beer when the man came back again.
GUILTY,Of stealing to the value of 39s .(Aged 37.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
294. GEORGE BOYDEN was indicted for feloniously making an assault, on the King's highway, on Elizabeth Baker , spinster , on the 23d of April , and putting her in fear, and feloniously taking from her person, and against her will, a diaper napkin, value 6d. a printed callico gown, value 1l. 5s. and half a yard of printed callico, value 6d. the goods of the said Elizabeth Baker .
I am a single woman. On the 23d of April I had my parcel snatched from me, as I was walking along in Newgate-street, just at the end of Butcherhall-lane , in the night, about a quarter before ten o'clock.
Q. Had you a diaper napkin, gown and callico? - Yes, I had been fetching it from the mantua-maker's in Red Lion-street.
Q. Where were you going? - To Sun-court, Threadneedle-street.
Q. Did he say any thing to you before he took it? - No, he made a spring and snatched it out of my hand.
Q. Did you let it go or make any struggle with it? - I had not time, it was snatched in a moment; another person immediately pushed me down and the man ran down Butcherhall-lane.
Q. You was not pushed till after the snatch? - No.
Q. Were there any lamps near the place? - I did not observe; I scarce did see him before the bundle was gone from me.
Q. Had the man who robbed you, a round hat on? - Yes.
Q. Then you could not have sworn to his face till after he was brought back? - No.
Q. When you was robbed, had you time to discover the colour of the man's coat, or his dress? - No, not till after he was taken. I shrieked out immediately, and a young man that see him snatch it, seized him.
Q. Is the young man here? - He called on me a week afterwards, and said, that he was going to Canterbury, to work at his business; I wrote to him last Tuesday, and he never came.
Q.When the prisoner was brought
A CONSTABLE sworn.
Q. Did you see the property in the prisoner's possession? - No, I did not.
Q. Who did you get it from? - A young man. I was in the lane when the cry of stop thief was.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the third London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
295. WILLIAM TERRY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 23d of April , a pair of mens leather shoes, value 3s. 6d. a pair of mens leather half boots, value 16s. a pair of laced half boots, value 9s. a pair of womens leather shoes, value 3s. ten pair of upper leathers for shoes, value 10s. the goods of George Murray , in his dwelling house .(The case opened by Mr. Cullen.)
I live No. 3, Bishopsgate-street . On Thursday, the 23d day of April, I had been out, and when I came home I was informed that the prisoner at the bar, my weekly servant , had about an hour before pawned a pair of shoes. He had lived with me about two years and a quarter. The pawnbroker brought the shoes up.
Q. You found him in charge of a constable? - Yes, and I said to Mr. Terry, we will go to your lodgings. The officer went with me and the prisoner.
Q. Did you go the same afternoon? - Yes, directly. In looking about the room, in a little closet, I found a pair of men's half boots; I said, Mr. Terry, did you take them for your wear? - he endeavoured to make some apology, that I had some time before promised him a pair of shoes. In looking again into the same closet, I found another pair of half boots that laced; the prisoner's wife opened the drawers, to shew us what we pleased to look at; among the rest was a pair of womens shoes, in the indictment, which the prisoner's wife said, she brought with her cut of the country some time before.
Q. Was that in the hearing of the prisoner? - Yes; in examining these shoes, I saw the customer's name that they were made for, of the name of Turnbull, and I know the shoes likewise. In some other part of the room, I believe the officer opened a little bag, which contained some upper leathers of mine, some of them marked. The constable has had the property ever since. He first said, that some of the leather was his, but when I came to look at them he confessed.
Mr. Knapp. Before any conversation took place on this business, had you held out any hopes to him? - No.
Q. Had you threatened him? - No.
Q. Did you tell him it should be better for him? - No.
Q. Did you tell him he should not be taken in custody? - He was already in custody. The first thing that passed was, his telling me that I had promissed him a pair of shoes; and when I looked over the leather, when I came to some part of the skin that was marked, he said, I am very sorry; and his wife said, she was sorry to say that I had not one honest servant about me, for they all robbed me; he said he had not robbed me more than the rest. He acknowledged he had took all the articles. I said to him, if there is one article that is not mine, be cautious what you say, and don't let me take it; he acknowledged they were all mine.
Q. Do you mean to swear that your journeymen don't work for you out of hours at home, and bring the goods back again the next morning? - No, it is not the practice of my shop.
Q. If this man without your knowledge worked out of doors, you did not know it? - Certainly not.
Q. Was there a person of the name of Greenwood lived with you? - Yes.
Q.Does he live with you now? - No.
Q. Is he here to day? - Not that I know of.
Q. How long has he ceased to live with you? - Since this affair my mind was not easy, on account of the prisoner charging him with robbing me likewise. I went to his apartment to satisfy myself, and I see nothing in his apartment.
Q. In consequence of that information you certainly did turn Greenaway away? - I did. I found that they were both going to quit my service, and set up in the trade for themselves.
Q. Do you know the name of the prisoner at the bar? - Yes; he came on the 23d of April, about two or half after two o'clock, and pawned a pair of mens shoes with me for two shillings, in the name of Smith. He came into the box and asked half a crown on them, and I gave him two shillings, and I wrote a ticket for them; and about two o'clock in the afternoon, my master sent me with two pair of shoes to Mr. Murray's shop, and when I came in there I see the prisoner at the bar, and I came home and acquainted my master of it, and my master went with me to Mr. Murray's shop, and sent me for a constable, and I fetched a constable, and then my master sent me home.
Q. Where is the pair of shoes that he pawned? - The constable has got them. I delivered them to my master, and there I left them.
Q. You are a pawnbroker in London-wall.
Q. Did that boy deliver a pair of shoes to you? - Yes.
Q. Did you go to Mr. Murray's in consequence of what the boy told you? - Yes. Mr. Murray was not then at home, I sent my boy for a constable, and took the man into custody, and the prisoner at the bar owned and confessed that he took the shoes from Mr. Murray's shop. Mr. Murray came home and I shewed him the shoes, and he said they were his property. I accompanied the constable to a house in old Bedlam, and we went into a room there, where his wife was making of shoes, and Mr. Murray found several things of his own on the premises; he found some shoes, boots, and leather.
Q. Did you hear the prisoner give any account, how he came by these things, that Mr. Murray found? - I did not.
Mr. Knapp. You said the prisoner confessed; before the prisoner confessed was any thing said to induce him to confess? - It came voluntarily from himself. I asked him myself where did he take these pair of shoes from, and he pointed me to the place.
Q. Did you tell him it would be better for him? - I did not. I told him I would send for a constable to take him to the counter, because I supposed he had stole this pair of shoes.
Q. Did you tell him that if he did not tell you whether he stole them or not, you would send for a constable? - I did
Q. Did he know it? - Yes, he did.
Q. Now, after you had sent for a constable, did you threaten him or tell him it would be better for him to confess? - No, I did not.
I am a constable.
Q. Did you take the prisoner into custody? - Yes, by order of Mr. Purse. When I had him in custody in Mr. Murray's shop, Mr. Murray came in, and Mr. Purse informed him that he had had a pair of shoes pawned at his house, and he suspected they were stolen. I asked the prisoner whether he lived in the house? he said he did Mr. Murray says, I am over-run with thieves, I have found one out. Mr. Murray and Mr. Purse consulted together, and asked him if he was willing for us to go and search his lodgings? he said, yes, by all means. Accordingly, we went and searched his lodgings, and we found the contents of this bag all but one pair of shoes. (The property produced.) He first of all said, they were his own property; but Mr. Murray seeing his own private mark on them, he could not deny but that they were his master's.
- TURNBULL sworn.
This one pair of shoes I can swear to, having my hand writing on them.
Mr. Knapp. Had you ever seen these shoes before that you produce? - No, never before the 23d of April.
Q. You have a great many pair of shoes pawned with you in the course of a years? - Yes, I have.
Q. These shoes that were pawned with you, did you give them to the constable, or bring them here yourself? - I gave them to the constable.
The prisoner called five witnesses who gave him a good character.
GUILTY, Of stealing to the value of 39s .
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the third London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
296. THOMAS JACKSON was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Rawson , about the hour of two in the night, of the 19th of May , with intent to steal his goods and monies .
I live at No. 76, Fetter-lane, Holborn . On the 19th of May, Tuesday morning last, I was alarmed after the prisoner was catched in the house. I believe the watch had not gone two. I was in bed and asleep at the time of the alarm.
Q. What happened when you got up? - I was asked if the place was all fast when I went to bed, I told them it was. I fastened the door and shut it, and went to bed about ten minutes after twelve, and I was alarmed by a cry, Mr. Rawson! Mr. Rawson! there are thieves in your shop. This was about two, or ten minutes after, I cannot be certain, When I came down stairs, I see the prisoner at the bar in custody of William Conner . The door shutter had been wrenched with a crow, or some such thing, that pulled the serew off, and they let the shutter down and cut the square of glass, with a diamond, and let themselves in.
Q.Was it cut big enough for a man to open the door? - Yes, for them to put their hand in. I had not fastened that bolt that side; it was a separate door, the
Q. At the time you went down on this alarm, was it light or dark? - I cannot say, I think it was rather break of day.
Q.Was it light enough to see a man's face? - I cannot say indeed, the reason was, there were candles in the shop.
Mr. Knapp. All your house was shut up when you come down? - Yes, it was.
Q.Will you swear it was dark or light? - No, I will not, I cannot, that is plain.
I belong to the India house. When I was coming home, on Tuesday morning, the 19th, there were two men at the end of the lane. It was just about a quarter before two; I did not altogether like it. I stepped up towards my door, and would not open it till they were gone by; No. 69, Fetter-lane, exactly opposite Mr. Rawson's, and I see the prisoner at the bar, and another taller man pass me as I was standing at the step, and directly as he had passed by, I opened my door and went in, and shut the door after me. It was where I lodged, I went up stairs. I struck no light; the window was open, and through the curtain, I saw the prisoner and this tall man, walk up and down four or five times; I thought they had no good intent. So previous to that, I had taken out eight marbles that I had in my drawer, and I tore the hole of the curtain bigger to look; it had a hole in it before; and they walked up to the door, and the shutter appeared to be down by the blackness of the glass. The tall man stood up against the side of the door like, it is a folding door. St. Paul's had struck two I suppose, about ten minutes before; the watchmen were crying two; they went off and came back again to the door, and they see all was clear, and they both went in and shut the door after them. Then the day was breaking, it was plain enough to discern any body then.
Q. Was there light enough to distinguish the features of a man's face? - I don't think there was, at least I could not discern it. I took three of the marbles and throwed them, in order to alarm Mr. Rawson, which missed the window, and struck the shutters, and alarmed them, and they paused then in the house. They were two minutes then in the house before they came out, and then I called out Rawson! Rawson! with the noise of my calling Rawson, they came out. The tall one took towards Holborn, and the short one towards Barnard's-inn. The watchman being by Barnard's-inn-gate, I called to him to stop him. There was no other person in the lane whatever, and the watchman took him about twenty yards from the door, by Mr. Langdale's steps.
Q. Did you see the watchman stop him? - Yes. He was not out of my fight.
Q. Could you see enough of his face from the window where you were, when the watchman stopped him, to say that was the same person? - I could not. It was such a person. Then a Mr. Blanchard, in Dean-street, and an officer came up likewise that there might not be any rescue, and after that I went down to the watch-house, and gave my charge; Mr. Rawson, the prosecutor, and the watchman desired me to come.
Mr. Knapp. You told the judge just now that it was about break of day, you was up two pair of stairs, and looking through a curtain? - Through a window open, and the curtain tore down the middle.
Q. Was that window a casement? - No, a sash.
Q.Could you see the person of any one of them? Could you know them
Q.Had you any candle light? - No, but there is a light at out door, that shines directly opposite the way.
Q.Supposing you had been down stairs on the other side of the way, could you not discern their faces? - No, I don't think I could.
Q. You say it was about day break; if I had been as near to you as I am now, could you have discerned my face by the break of day? - I might perhaps, I would not pretend to swear. I did not look at the man's face.
Q.Supposing you had chosen to lock at a man's face, was there not light enough to discern him? - I might.
Q. You say it was day break? - I did not; I said the day was breaking.
Q. Upon your oath, if you had been in the street, instead of being as you were, up in the two pair of stairs, could you not have discerned his face? - I will not take my oath on that.
Q. Have you ever been a witness before? Did you ever hear of a crime of burglary? - Yes, I am not so void of sense, but I may know what a burglary is as well as yourself, though you are so high learned.
Q. Do you know any thing about a reward on conviction of a burglary? - I come not expecting to be paid for what I do, and you do.
Q. Then you know there is a forty pounds reward on a conviction of burglary? - I do; but upon my oath I do not come with that intent.
- CONNER sworn.
I was calling two o'clock on Tuesday morning, and at the same time one of the men that were there, that lived up two pair of stairs, he cried out, watch! watch! stop him. Accordingly at the same word, I laid hold of the young fellow, Thomas Jackson , as he was going by running; coming up Holborn way, going towards the Strand way on the same side of the street where the house was broke open. When I laid hold of the young fellow, he says, it is not me, it is that man that has gone forward.
Q. Was there any other forward? - No other man that I see than this man that I laid hold of. I suppose it was twenty yards from the door where it was broke open, that I laid hold of the young man.
Q. What did you after you laid hold of him? - Called up Rawson and the patrol; and I went to the door and there was a mob inside of the door; and at the same time we thought it better to take the young man inside of the house, and to let the mob disperse, until such time as we see what was the matter. The patrol examined the house.
Q. I want to know whether it was light or dark? - It was break of day, just about a quarter past two, between there and ten minutes.
Q. Was there light enough to distinguish the features of a man's face, to know one man from another? - Yes, there was.
NOT GUILTY .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I am a pewterer . On the 27th of April I was robbed of this pewter.
Q. Was the prisoner a servant at the time? - He was. On Monday the 27th
Q. What was found? - Six pounds weight of tedges, pewter; I have got the patterns belonging to them. They were taken off the work bench. They had been clipped off the bottoms of quart pots in the course of that day. I gave them to the officer. (Produced.)
Mr. Peate You are a pewterer? - Yes.
Q. You lost a good deal of pewter? - Yes.
Q.Have you any partner? - No.
Q. Are they not the refuse what is left in the mould? - No, they are not.
Q. I suppose your moulds are the same size as other peoples? - I can tell that my moulds are standard measure; but whether they are of the same shape I cannot tell.
Q. They are cut off after the pot is cast? - Yes, they are.
Q. Are they in any particular shape after the pot is cast? - These tedges tally with the bottom of what they are cut off from.
Q. Do you ever go out of you shop? - I certainly do.
Q.How do you know you have nothing brought into your shop when you are out of it? - I have pewter and things of that kind, but not such tedges as these.
Q. Them pieces it seems are so extremely peculiar, that when a man is standing at the bar for his liberty, you know that they are cut off your pots? - I know they are.
Q. Give us something like a tradesman's reason why you know them; and and not a female woman's reason, that you know them only because you know them? - I could not explain myself further than I know them.
Q. Probably your reason is because you found them in the pocket of the man that was going out of the shop? - I found fifteen pounds of them in his pocket one time.
Q.Supposing you had found them at a pewterer's bench in York, should you have been able to swear to them? - I certainly should not.
Q. You could not know them by the smell, I take it for granted, not the shape. Is not the mixture of metal, which you call pewter, much the same in all pewterers shops? - I cannot give an answer to that question.
Q.Perhaps you never served your time to a pewterer? - Yes; I have been in business for forty years. We have block in come from Cornwall, and we cannot work it in that state.
Q.Them articles that you hold there in your bag, are clipped off with shears? - They are.
Q. Then, I suppose, the shears of other pewterers are very different from your's? - I don't go to other pewterers shops.
Q. These things that are cut off, are they sold or melted down again? - Melted down again.
Q. Did you ever see them pieces of metal before you found them in the man's pocket? - Certainly I did; and three times more than this.
Q. You do not mark them when they are cut off? - I do not; it is not the custom. Our servants are in the shop from
Q. How long was it before you took them out of this man's pocket that you see them? - Three hours before.
Q. I want to know how you know they are the same pieces? - Because I missed the quantity, and they were found in his pocket.
Q. How long has this man worked with you? - About four months, and prior to that for two years. I looked on him to be an honest man.
Q. Did he attend his duty? - Sometimes he did, and sometimes got drunk Prior to this, a fortnight, I had a very great suspicion, or else I should not have stopped him when I did.
Court. When you took these things, did you go up stairs to see if any were missing? - I did, and I found it missing, by my eye I see there were some gone.
- HUMPHRIES sworn.
I am a constable.
Q. Did you see these tedges on the prisoner? - Yes. I took them from him. He said if Mr. Perry would forgive him, he was sorry for it, and he would never do so any more.
Mr. Peate. What did you say to him to induce him to say so? - Nothing.
Q. To Perry. Do you happen to know this, that this man was in the habit of hanging up his coat any where? - Yes.
Q. You had other men in the shop that afternoon? - There were only him and the apprentice.
Prisoner. The day that master took the metal out of my pocket, he happened to be out that day, and he came home on horse back, and he called for a pail of water and brush, to wash his horses legs, and I went to do it, and he told me he had ordered his boy to do it; and I went to turn round to go home, and he took hold of me, and said, what have you got here? and he took these pieces of pewter out of my pocket. I know no more of it than the day I shall die.
The prisoner called two witnesses who gave him a good character.
GUILTY . (Aged 40.)
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
298. HELENA HOLMAN was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 29th of April , one hundred and sixty-nine copper halfpence, value 7s. 2d. 1/2 twelve farthings, value 3d. ten pieces of copper, called medals, value 4d. one hundred and sixty-two halfpence, value 6s. 9d. nine farthings, value 2d. eight half crowns, value 1l. three shillings and five sixpence; two pieces of metal, value 1d. two pieces of silver, value 6d. four metal cloak pins, value 1s. six brass hooks, value 6d. an iron knife with a wooden handle, value 4d. and an iron fork with ditto, value 2d. the goods of Thomas Dolly .(The case opened by Mr. Gurney.)
Q. Did you ever miss any property received at the bar? - I thought there was a shortness in the money several times, but it was impossible for me to tell the exact amount that was received there; I marked sixty or sixty-one halfpence and placed them in a box in my bed room, where I put the halfpence when I had more in the till than I can cleverly pull it in and out with. I missed ten of the marked ones on the Saturday that my daughter see the halfpence in her box.
Q.And what day did you miss the ten? - On the Wednesday following, the 29th of April. In consequence of that I sent for an officer; he asked her to go out, and I thought it was proper to have her searched, as the money was missing, to see whether my suspicions were well founded or not. When she went up stairs to clean herself, I followed her up stairs, and told her I had some reason to suppose that she had robbed me; she said, she had not; says I, if I accuse you wrongfully, I must ask your pardon; she said she had not robbed me; I said, I have a constable below, and I called him up.
Q. Did you search her box? - Yes; when we went up into her room, (where I spoke to her first was not in her room, it was in the one pair of stairs, her room was in the two pair of stairs) I insisted on searching her box; and it was with some reluctance she would permit it to be done; but at last she pulled the key out of her pockets; and unlocked the box.
Q.Did you find the articles mentioned in the indictment there? - Yes, and in her pockets; and thirty or forty pounds worth of new clothes, never wore, only one pair of stockings.
Q. Were these things that were found, delivered into the hands of a constable? - Yes, they were, and sealed up. When we were taking the things out, two parcels of halfpence were wrapped up in some of her clothes, and she took up the two parcels of halfpence and laid them down; I said, what is that? it was two bags of halfpence, and I found one halfpenny that I had marked in each bag. There was some other things that I found besides the money, a knife and fork, &c. she said, she had locked them up for safety.
Mr. Knowlys. This woman was your servant? - Yes, to my misfortune.
Q. You marked a quantity of halfpence, and in the halfpence that you found in this woman's box, there were only two of the marked fort. This woman was intrusted to sort your halfpence, was she not? - I did it myself; I never sent her up stairs with halfpence in my life.
Q. It was stated that she was bare of clothes, in the opening? - You did not bear me say so. She made a decent appearance.
Q.Whom this matter was a little more recent, you went before the magistrate, and laid your information before alderman Le Mesurier? - No, I went before the Lord Mayor, and he advised me to mark my money.
Q. Now I ask you, on your oath, whether you then mentioned at all that she made any reluctance in opening her box? - I do not recollect that any questions were asked me; the alderman he see the quantity that were there, and he asked very little about it.
Q. The box was opened when your daughter was there alone? - That was the Saturday before; that was not the same box; this was a new box that had come home from the box-maker's but two days, and my daughter lent her two shillings to pay for it; and she had thirty shillings in copper in it in less than two days after. As for the knife and fork, she said she had locked it up to keep it safe; as soon as the officer took hold of the cloak pins, I said, they are my cloak pins, what do they here? she said, they are your's, I put them there that they may be safe.
Mr. Gurney. Had you any reason for knowing, at any previous time, that she had much or little money? - I had. I don't know whether it is according to the rules of this Court, to speak respecting her coming to my house.
Mr. Gurney. It is not.
Q. You are the daughter of the prosecutor? - Yes, I am.
Q. Did you ever look into the box of the prisoner at the bar? - Not before the morning that I discovered the halfpence there, on Saturday the 25th of April. I went up stairs in order to look in a closet, that was in the prisoners room, before I could open the closet door I was obliged to move a trunk that belonged to the prisoner; and as I moved that trunk, I heard something gingle that I thought founded like halfpence.
Q. Was the trunk locked? - No. It was not. I lifted up a few things and discovered a white slannel sock with a parcle of halfpence in it.
Q.What quantity might there be? - About seven shillings and sixpence.
Q. On the Wednesday following were you present when the box was searched by the constable? - I was.
Q. Did the prisoner say any thing while the search was making? - No, she did not.
Q. Did you hear her say any thing that day? - Yes, after the constable had searched her, and she had produced the money that she had in her pockets; the prisoner and I went into my bed chamber; when she was in there, she asked me if I would call her master?
Q. Was this after she had been examined? - Yes; when my father came into the room, she said, there is all the money I have of your's; and if you think I have bought them new clothes with your money, you are welcome to take them, on condition she said that my father would not carry her before them gentlemen.
Q. Before this was said, had there been any promise made to the prisoner, to induce her to say it? - No.
Q. Had there been any threat? - No.
Mr. Knowlys. Your father was called up to hear this? - Yes, he was.
Q.He was called up for the very purpose of hearing it? - Yes, he was.
Q. The prisoner and you used to differ occasionally, a little, I believe? - No, never.
Q. Not about clothes? - No.
Q. You never made some such remark as this, that when you went out to balls occasionally, that you never could dress smarter than she? - No, I never made any such observation.
Q.You used to go out frequently to balls? - No, I cannot say that I did.
Q.Never perhaps? - Yes, sometimes.
Q.Never had any quarrel with her at all? - No; my mother and the prisoner has had words sometimes.
Q. The box where you see these halfpence on Saturday was unlocked? - It was, and the lid was open.
Q. I don't know whether you see the halfpence that were found? - Yes, I did.
Q. And there was one marked halfpenny in each parcel? - Yes, no more, nor no less.
I am a constable.
Q. Were you sent for, on any occasion, by Mr. Dolly? - Yes; on Saturday morning he came to me, and asked me if I would step with him? I told him, yes. Accordingly with that I went, and I sat down in his house till he was ready; and at last I went up stairs, and searched the prisoner's box; and accordingly, I heard something gingle among the wearing apparel, and I found some halfpence.
Q.Where did you find the halfpence? - In two bags; the first thing that I see turned out were the cloak pins.
Q.Have you any copper medals there? - Yes, they were all sealed up; Mr. Dolly took the inventory of them; he then gave it me; here are eight half crowns &c. &c.
Q. Were all these the articles that you found in the prisoner's box? - Yes.
Q.You found two marked halfpence? - Yes, one in one bag, and one in another. (Produced.)
Q. To Dolly. Are these the halfpence that you marked? - Yes, they are. The cloak pins I can only speak to as being of the same pattern. The knife and fork is one of my children's. I have no particular mark on it.
Court. Did you ever pay her any wages in copper money? - No, none She was with me a few weeks; she wanted to go out; she asked for a guinea, and had it in gold Since that, she had half a guinea, and six shillings in silver, that is all that she has had in my house. The different tradesmen where these new goods were bought, said, they were paid for in copper.
Jury to Newman. Was there but one box? - No, there were two boxes open when I went up stairs.
Dolly. I went up stairs first and told her to open the box, and she took the key out of her pocket, and opened the box.
The prisoner called one witness to her character.
GUILTY . (Aged 34.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
299. THOMAS SHARP was indicted, for that he, on the 7th of May , feloniously, did falsely make, forge, and counterfeit, and did cause to be falsely made, forged and counterfeited, and did willingly act and assist in falsely making, forging, and counterfeiting a certain promissory note, bearing date the 6th of May, with the name of Richard Ball thereto subscribed, purporting to be drawn by one Richard Ball , for the payment of thirty pounds to one Mr. Sharp, or order, two months after date, at No. 32, Golden-lane, London with intention to defraud James Saywell .
Indicted in a second COUNT, for uttering the same, with the like intention.
(The case opened by Mr. Knowlys.)
JAMES SAYWELL sworn.
Q.Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.
Q.Did you ever receive any paper from the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, I did, on the 7th of May. On the 5th of May he came and bought some sewing silks, to the amount of five pounds and upwards, and said, that he was leaving Mr. Searle, whom he had lived with and should go into business for himself.
Q. Did you know him before? - Yes, I did. On the 6th he came again, and bought to the amount of between two and three pounds; he gave me four guineas on account of what he had then bought, and what he had bought on the 5th it left four pounds and upwards in my favour. On the 7th he came again, about one o'clock, and looked out a parcel of died sewing silks, to the amount of twenty-one pounds and upwards; after he had looked them out, he gave me a thirty pounds bill, a promissory note.
Q. Have you got it about you? - I have.
Q. Who was the drawer of that note? - Richard Ball.(Produces it.) My account came to twenty six pounds three
Q.Had you asked him who the drawer was? - Yes.
Q.Look at that note again; I see there is thirty pounds in figures, and the 9th of July; were those on at the time you received it of the prisoner at the bar? - No; they were not. I believe either my son or clerk did it.
Q.Before or after he had tendered it to you? - After.
Q. I see it is dated the 6th of May. The 9th of July is when it becomes due of course? - It is.
Q. Where did the prisoner at this time live? - No. 22, Golden-lane, Barbican.
Q. Did you take this note in discharge of your balance? - I was to give him three pounds seventeen shillings in cash as his balance, and I had not so much about me, and I promised to give it him in two or three days.
Q. What past after that? - He gave me an order of fifty pounds weight more of silk. In consequence of that I went to Mr. Scarle where he had lived.
Q. Did you afterwards entertain any suspicions about this, and what did you do in consequence of those suspicions? - I thought it was a bad bill and I went to his house in Golden lane.
Q.How long after you had received this note? - I suppose in two or three hours, and I asked whether he was at home.
Q. Did you find him at home? - No, I did not. I then see his wife.
Q. Did you afterwards make any enquiries at this place where he had described the bill was to be paid? - My clerk went down to make enquiries.
Q. Have you ever been able to see any such person as Richard Ball from that time to this? - I have not.
Q. How long was it after this that the prisoner was taken up? - He came to my house Friday evening with four men, I had had the note a day then. He came between eight and nine o'clock, he himself and four men, to take me up for a felony, that I had taken away his property for which he had given a very good bill. You will observe that I was out of the house when this man came first, and he came again on Saturday morning about eleven o'clock with a constable and fourmen, and carried me before the Lord Mayor.
Q. Had you then taken any of his goods? - I had not taken any thing but part of my own property.
Q. What had you done at his house? - I see some sewing silk lay there, and I said it was my property.
Q. Were these things part that you sold him? - Yes, part.
Q. Was that before or after that you received information that gave suspicion of the bill? - After, On Saturday he came, and I was taken before the Lord Mayor, and he made a charge against me that I had taken his property, and swore that he had given me a very good bill.
Q.Was the information taken in writing? - I believe it was.
Q. How did that matter end? - He accused me of this robbery, and my Lord Mayor said it was a serious charge against me; he gave me my liberty, he did not require bail if I would appear when I was called upon. In the mean time Mr. Searle arrested him for a debt of twenty-one pounds, Mr. Searle told me so. Then on Tuesday following he was had up again to make good his charge against me.
Q. And you see him in custody of a sheriss's officer? - Yes. He then said that he had taken this bill of a person that had gone to sea.
Q.Was what he said taken in writing? - I really don't know, I cannot say.
Q.What was done in consequence of that? - Mr. Davenport and my man, on Saturday, went down to Woolwich, and they came forward on Tuesday, and the Lord Mayor committed him for forgery. He discharged me.
Mr. Raine. I see this note purports to be payable at the house of the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.
Q. You know he lives there, No. 22, Golden-lane, Barbican? - Yes. He gave it me as his brother-in-law's.
Q.It does not look much like a forgery, for a man to be in possession of a note payable at his own house. I believe you know, in point of fact, that he has a brother in-law of the name of Ball? - He has.
Q. Now, Mr. Saywell, with respect to these goods the prisoner had of you, you went to his house to reclaim these goods? - Yes.
Q.Have a care what you say Mr. Saywell. On your oath, did not you take some goods that he had not had of you? - Upon my oath, I did not.
Q. I would have you be cautious? - I shall be cautious. I took none but my own property.
Q. Then it seems the prisoner first made a charge of felony against you? - Yes.
Q. And by way of doing away that charge you impute forgery to him? - He certainly gave me that note, and said it was his brother-in-law's.
Q. Do you remember taking away any black silk from the prisoner's house when you went to reclaim these goods? - Yes, I do.
Q. At the time you sold these goods to the prisoner, you gave him a bill of parcels? - I did.
Q. Now, if it should turn out in the bill of parcels there is no black silk mentioned, what will you say to that? (The bill of parcels shewn him.) - There is raven grey, and that is black.
Mr. Knowlys. I believe you had suspected this note not to be a good one, and had called at his house, and could not find him at home, on which you took the silk? - Yes.
Q. He bought goods of you on the fifth and sixth. Did you give him a bill of parcels with these goods likewise? - Yes.
Q.Another thing. His charge against you was heard before the magistrate? - Yes.
Q. Had you communicated at his house that that note was a bad one? - Yes, I had.
Q. This raven grey, does it pass for black silk? - It is a lighter die than black.
Court. Were all the goods that you took away, goods that you had sold to him? - Yes.
Mr. Raine. You do distinguish between raven grey and black? - Yes, we do.
I live in Huggin-lane, Wood-street, Cheapside. I am a warehouseman in the silk line.
Q. Do you know Mr. Saywell? - Very well.
Q. Did you, by any desire of his, go to Greenwich or Woolwich? - I did, on Saturday the 9th instant. After the examination at the Mansion-house, we set off with Mr. Goodall, Mr. Saywell's clerk, and we stopped at a house short of Church-lane, Greenwich. We went to the house described by Mr. Sharp before the Lord Mayor.
Q. Did you make any enquiry for a person of the name of Richard Ball ? - We did, at the house of Mr. Ball.
Q. Did you enquire at other places in Greenwich, for any person of the name of Richard Ball? - We did.
Q. Could you find any such person living there? - We could not.
Q. Did you afterwards go to Woolwich? - We did.
Q. Did you go to the Warren? - We did.
DANIEL GOODALL sworn.
Q. I believe you are clerk to Mr. Saywell, the prosecutor? - Yes.
Q. Will you look at that note, and tell me whose hand writing the thirty pounds note, and the 9th of July is? - The 9th of July I am certain is the writing of Mr. Saywell's son; the thirty pounds note is either his or mine, but he and I write so much alike, that I cannot be certain.
Q. Did you accompany Mr. Davenport? - I did.
Q. Did you make inquiries at Greenwich and Woolwich-warren for a person of the name of Richard Ball? - We did.
Q. Did you find any such person? - We did not.
MARK BALL sworn.
The prisoner's counsel objected to Mr. Ball's giving evidence; because, he was the person said to be defrauded in the indictment, but the court thought he was a good witness, because he did not appear at all interested, but one Richard Ball .
Q. Your name is Mark Ball? - Yes.
Q. Where do you live? - At Greenwich; my wife keeps a school there in Churchfields. I am employed in the warren at Woolwich, a settled place, I have been there some years.
Q. Do you know a person there of the name of Richard Ball ? - I cannot say that I do. There are a number of Ball's thereabouts. I have heard of the name of Richard Ball , but I cannot recollect at present.
Q. How long have you lived at Greenwich? - Nigh two years.
Q. Do you know Mr. Samuel Ball of Woolwich-warren? - I just know there is such a man, that is all.
Q. Do you know Mr. Peter Ball? - I did not know their christian names till after this happened.
Court. You have always gone by the name of Mark? - I have never disowned by name yet.
Q. Never signed any other name? - Never to my recollection, I am sure I should never do it intentionally, and if I did it intentionally I think I should remember it.
Mr. Raine. You say there are a great number of Balls who reside in the neighbourhood of Greenwich? - Yes.
Q.Perhaps as many of that name as any one? - Yes, I think there are.
Q. You said you had heard of the name of Richard Ball? - Yes, I think I have.
Court. Is there Church-street, as well as Church-fields? - I believe there may, I am only at Greenwich of nights.
I am a smith at Woolwich Warren.
Q. Do you know a person of the name of Richard Ball, in Woolwich Warren? - No.
Q. Did you ever hear of any such person? - No.
Q. How many Balls are there in Woolwich Warren? - There is my son and myself, and this gentleman and his son, and his son's name is William, the same as my son; and there is another Ball that is out at the outside of the door, I don't know his name.
Q.What age is Mr. Mark Ball's son? - As near as I can guess about twenty, my son is nineteen.
Q. I don't know whether you live at Greenwich when you are away from work? - No, at Woolwich.
Mr. Raine. You know there are a great many of the name of Ball about Woolwich? - I don't know, I knew them five.
Q. Are there not a great many people about the Warren and the Dock-yard, that you know nothing about? - Certainly I don't know one half.
Q. You are in the military in Woolwich? - Yes, I belong to the military artificers six years.
Q. Do you know a person of the name of Richard Ball, having a place or being employed there? - No, I do not.
Q. Did you ever hear of any such person? - No, never.
Q. Where do you live when you are out of the Warren? - In Woolwich.
Mr. Garney. Woolwich is a large place? - Not a very large place.
Q. There are a great many people employed in the Dock-yard that you don't know? - Yes.
Q. Do you collect any rates at Greenwich? - I collect the poor and highway.
Q. How long have you lived at Greenwich? - Between thirty and forty years, but I have not been a collector near that time.
Q. How long have you been a collector? - Between five and six years.
SAMUEL BRUNSELL sworn.
Q. What are you at Greenwich? - A private gentleman.
Q. How long have you lived at Greenwich? - Thirty three years last August.
Q. Do you know any person of the name of Richard Ball, living at Greenwich? - No, I do not.
Q. Did you ever hear of any person of the name of Richard Ball living at Greenwich? - No, I never did.
"301. London, May 6th, 1795. Two months after date I promise to pay Mr. Thomas Sharp, or order, thirty pounds; value received.
No. 22, Golden lane, Barbican, London.
I reside at Woolwich; I work in the Warren about two years and a quarter, or rather more.
Richard Ball , having a place, or any employment of the Warren of Woolwich? - None.
Q. Did you ever hear of such a person? - No.
Mr. Gurney. Do you know the names of all the persons that are employed in the Dock yard? - I know very few in the Dock-yard, my employment is in the Warren.
Mr. Raine to Prosecutor. You never tendered this note for payment in Barbican? - No, never.
Mr. Knowlys. It does not purport to be due yet.
Prisoner. I leave it entirely to my counsel.
The prisoner called six witnesses who gave him a good character; particularly Mr. Searle, with whom he had lived in the capacity of shopman and clerk for ten years, who said he had put an unbounded confidence in him.
Mr. Davenport. If it is not out of order, I would beg leave to state a circumstance, which I hope will operate greatly in favour of the prisoner. I had occasion to go to Mr. Saywell's, in order to go with his young man to the attorney, for the purpose of consulting what was best to do in this affair; and while I was there the prisoner at the bar came in along with two officers of justice, and he betrayed such a degree of wildness and distraction in his looks, and he acted with such a degree of anxiety on his mind that it struck me he was suffering under a temporary derangement of mind.
GUILTY . Death .
Recommended to mercy by the jury, in consequence of his good character, and the unfortunate situation described by one of the witnesses on the part of the prosecution, in which recommendation also the prosecutor joined.
At the time of receiving sentence, the prisoner said, Richard Ball is gone to sea, it is impossible for me to bring him forward at this present time; I am very sorry I did not mention it at the time I was tried, I was rather frusterated, and that was the reason I did not do it.
Tried by the third London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
A second COUNT, for having another at the same time in their possession.
Q. Do you remember the two prisoners at the bar coming to your house? - Yes, on Monday, the 30th of April, Biddy Cane, about half an hour after four in the afternoon. She asked for half a quartern of gin, which I served her directly.
Q.What was the price? - Three halfpence.
Q.What did she tender you to change? - Sixpence marked with a letter G. on it, a very bad one. I had taken many such, which made me immediately know it. A little girl of a neighbour came in and says, that woman passes bad money, I knew her, and I immediately ordered her into custody. She was going to give me another out of her mouth, but the girl making that reply, she did not, she stopped. The little girl said, she passed it for her goods.
Q. Was your husband in the way? - No, I sent for him; when he came she wanted to give a girl four sixpences, and
Q. What was found? - Four shillings bad, and about three penny worth of halfpence to the best of my knowledge, the four shillings were in a box.
Q. Was the halfpence good or bad? - Very good, as halfpence goes now, such as pass.
Q. When did you first see the other prisoner Conway? - At the door; my husband brought her in.
Q. Did Conway come in with her at first? - Yes.
Q. She was brought in immediately after the other woman dropped the sixpence? - Yes, immediately after. I see her with her left hand take a sixpence out of her mouth, and let it fall on the left side of her, that I see.
Q. Who picked up that sixpence? - Myself.
Q. Was it good or bad? - Very bad. I gave it all I had to the constable.
Q. You keep the King's Head, opposite Cripplegate-church? - Yes. I was sent for from a Smith's shop, that I keep up the court.
Q. Did you see Conway there? - No; at that time I got up to my door she had left my door, and I got up as far as Mr. East's, in Whitecross-street; when I went into the house, I told the people to detain Cane, while I went for the other. Accordingly, I went out and told her, good woman, those is a dispute, and I will be glad if you will come back to settle it, I brought her back with the child in her arms. She was walking up Whitecross-street, from my house; accordingly I brought her back with me, and set her on the first bench, and I said, it was proper to send for an officer and have these women searched. Accordingly there was a neighbour came in, a milk woman that lives over the way, and she says, how do you do Mrs. Conway? and accordingly Biddy Cane put her hand to her mouth and took out some bad silver to give it her, and it dropped on the ground. A constable came in, and I told the costable it was proper to take her back to search her, and I took her, with the constable, into the back room, and found a Christmas box with four bad shillings in it.
Q.What did you find on her? - About three or four penny worth of halfpence; middling to pass, so as to pay for what she called for.
Q. Did you observe any thing on Conway? - Nothing at all.
Q. To whom did you deliver the money you found? - To the constable; four sixpences.
Mr. Oliver. I gave two separate ones.
Q. There was one that she tendered to you? - That I delivered first to the constable.
Q. Did you put any mark on it? - Yes.
Q. You gave him another, did you tell him which was which? - Yes.
Jury to Oliver. What reason had you to suppose that Conway was concerned in this business? - By a person that lived right opposite, who told me they were both concerned together.
Q. I believe you are a constable? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember being sent for to the house of Mr. Oliver, on the 5th of March last? - Yes. Mrs. Oliver put two sixpences in my hand, and Mr. Oliver four more; and Mr. Oliver desired them to be searched; I took Biddy Cane and Conway backward, and searched them one by one; on Cane I found four bad
Q. Did you find any thing on the other woman? - Nothing at all.(Produces the money.)
Mr. Oliver. This is the one that was tendered by Cane, and this is the other that dropped from Conway.
Mr. Oliver. These are the four that dropped from Cane when she put her hand to her mouth.
Q. To Hillier These shillings you found on Cane? - Yes.
Q. Look at this sixpence tendered by Cane. - It is a bad one.
Q. This one that dropped from Conway. - This is likewise a bad one; these four sixpences are all bad; these four shillings are all bad.
Prisoner Cane. I keep a house and have lodgers in it, and I had this money given me by one that had lodged with me, and had been to sea; I met him accidently in the street, he owed me twelve shillings, and he paid me six out of the twelve.
Prisoner Conway. I took the sixpence for spinning of some hemo, not knowing whether it was good or bad. I ran away with the fright. My husband is serving his king and country, and I had no other way of getting my living but by spinning of hemp. I had some witnesses last session, but I have none this.
Imprisoned twelve months in Newgate , and find security for two years .
Tried by the third London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I live at No 117, Wood-street, Cheapside , apprentice to my father, he is a silkman . On the 27th of April, the prisoner came to our house with two patterns of silk, one of sky blue and the other of grass green, and wanted three pounds of each colour, for Davidson and Co I let him have the goods; they came to nine pounds.
Q. Did you know this man? - I did not.
Q. Did you know Davidson and Co. - I did; they are haberdashers.
I am clerk to Mr. Saywell. On the 27th of April the prisoner at the bar came to our house, and had six pounds weight of sewing silk, to the amount of nine pounds; I see him served; I made out the bill of parcels, and delivered it to the prisoner.
Q. In whose name? - Davidson and Co. Bond-street.
Q. Who told you to make it out in that name? - Young Mr. Saywell.
Q. Did the prisoner hear that? - Yes, he did.
Q. What colour was it? - Three pounds of green grass, and three pounds of sky blue.
Q.Was it delivered to him? - It was, and I delivered the bill of parcels; young Mr. Saywell delivered the silk.
Q. Did you know that Mr. Saywell dealt with Davidson and Co.? - Yes, they were customers of ours.
Q. Do you know the name of the partners? - Davidson, Beaumont, and Abbott. I don't know their christian names.
THOMAS BEAUMONT sworn.
Q. Do you know the prisoner? - No, I do not.
Q. Did you use to deal with Mr. Saywell? - We have.
Q. Did you ever send that man for any silk? - Never; nor I never see him till I see him at the police office, Hatton-garden.
Mr. Alley. How many partners have you? - Two.
Q. I take it for granted that at separate times you give separate instructions? - Certainly. The prisoner never was in our employ at any time.
Saywell. I never see him before, till he came to our house for this silk.
Q. How came he to he taken up? - I cannot say.
Q. Are you sure that this is the man? - I am certain of it.
Q.Why he did not drop from the skies into the office, he was brought there by somebody? - He was brought there by the constable.
Q. To Goodall. How came this man to be taken up? - In consequence of an information we received from a man of the name of Moss, and he undertook to take him up.
Q. Are you sure this is the person? - I am sure of it.
Q. To Beaumont. Look at that man, was he ever in your employ? - Never.
Q. Could your partners employ a man without your knowledge? - Certainly not. It is very seldom that we ever send for goods; we generally go ourselves, and the goods are sent by a porter.
GUILTY . (Aged 29.)
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.