TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND BY MANOAH SIBLY, PROFESSOR OF SHORT-HAND, No. 35, Goswell-Street, And Published by Authority.
NUMBER III. PART I.
BEFORE the Right Honourable THOMAS SKINNER, Esq. LORD MAYOR of the City of LONDON: Sir WILLIAM HENRY ASHURST, Knt. one of the Justices of His Majesty's Court of King's Bench: Sir FRANCIS BUTLER, Bart. one of the Justices of His Majesty's Court of Common Pleas; Sir ALEXANDER THOMPSON , Knt. one of the Barons of His Majesty's Court of Exchequer: Sir JOHN WILLIAM ROSE, Knt. Serjeant at Law, Recorder of the said City; JOHN SYLVESTER , Esq. Common Serjeant of the said City, and others His Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer of the CITY of LONDON, and Justices of Goal Delivery of NEWGATE, holden for the said City and County of MIDDLESEX.
First Middlesex Jury.
Second Middlesex Jury.
ELIZABETH WOOD was indicted for stealing, on the 19th of November , a linen sheet, value 1s. a flannel blanket, value 2s. a linen shirt, value 1s. a linen shift, value 6d. and a flannel petticoat, value 1s. the goods of William Ashwin .
Q. What is your husband's name? - William Ashwin.
Q. You are his wife? - Yes.
Q. Was you robbed at any time, and when? - On the 19th of November I think it was.
Q. Was the prisoner your servant at the time? - She was not, she came to wash a few things for me; she came about seven o'clock that day, and she went away about ten, and I missed the things when she was gone.
Q. Did you miss all the articles that you put in the indictment? - No, I did not miss them altogether.
Q. But they were all missing at one time or the other? - Yes.
Q. Did you ever find any of them again? - Yes, she sold them to Mrs. Hall.
Q. What did you find at Mrs. Hall's? did you find all the articles there? - Yes, all there but the petticoat. Mrs. Hall has got them.
Q. What may you be? - I keep a sale shop.
Q. Where does Mrs. Ashwin live? - In Mercer-street.
Q. How far is your house from Mercer-street? - Not far, about the length of a small street.
Q. Look at the prisoner and see if you ever see her before? - Not to my knowledge; I cannot recollect any thing of the woman.
Q. What do you produce? - A sheet, shirt, and blanket; I bought these things.
Q. Did you receive them from a woman or a man? - Of a woman.
Q. What did you give for them? - Four shillings and ten-pence.
Q. Is that the full value? - Yes, I think rather more than the value.
Q. What day were they brought to you? - On Wednesday, the 19th of November, about twelve o'clock.
Q. Have you kept them from that time to this? - Yes.
Q. Then you don't know any thing of this woman? - No, nothing at all.
Q. Have you any reason to believe that she stole them? - No, only that she owned that she was the woman, at the magistrate's.
Q. Was the examination taken in writing there? - I believe so.
Prosecutor. I canot swear to the sheet or blanket; I know the shirt and the shirt, I know the shirt very well by the mending of it, it was my husband's shirt, there is no name on it at all.
Q. Have you any other reason to suppose that she took them, than that she was in the house? - No, I have no other reason.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
The conviction of Russell was read, for stealing the same coals, at the last session.
Q. Where do you live? - At Hoxton; I keep a coal shed there; I was to have received thirty-five sack of coals, and I received thirty-four.
Q. When? - I don't know the day of the month.
Q. What month was it in? - January.
Q. What is Bee? - A coal merchant.
Q. Did Bee deliver these coals to you himself? - Bee's man did, Russell, the man that was convicted last session.
Q. Did you measure these coals to find they were short? - There were thirty-five sacks put down in the ticket, and he delivered but thirty-four.
Q. What was done when he delivered these thirty-four sacks? - We counted the sacks, and they went along with Russell to Bee's wharf.
Q. Do you know of your own knowledge what became of the missing sack? - No.
I am an officer belonging to the public office, in Worship-street. On the 29th of December, I was standing by our office door, a person came up and said -
Q. In consequence of any intimation, what did you do? - I see a waggon standing very high opposite to the office, within a few yards; I see Watkins take out a sack of coals out of the waggon with the assistance of Russell, and I see him take them into the house of Brockwell, the prisoner that stands at the bar.
Q. Where is the prisoner's house? - It is situated in Worship-street, Moorfields. I followed him in, and just as you get into Brockwell's house, just in his room, there is a closet that is behind the door, and he takes and whips the coals out of the sack into this here closet. I was close to him almost.
Q. Who was in the room at that time? - Brockwell and his wife, and another woman. I laid hold of Watkins, I says to him, you are doing something that is not right; says he, I don't know nothing at all about that. I then asked Mr. Brockwell, the prisoner at the bar, what business them coals had being brought into his house? Brockwell said, there was a woman that lived in George-street that ordered them to be brought there; and at that time he had got half a crown between his thumb and finger, and said, here take the half crown, holding the half crown out to Watkins.
Q. Where was Russell at the time? - Watkins took the sack of coals out of the waggon, with the assistance of Russell; I took the ticket that I had from Watkins, and I see by the ticket that I had from Watkins, where the coals were going to; the officers took Watkins and the empty sack home to the office, and as the waggon had got the four and thirty sacks in it, I thought it not proper to take Russell into custody, and I thought it proper to go with him where the coals were going to; when we arrived at Mr. Price's house, which is situated in Gloucester-street, Hoxton; I related the circumstance to him, and the sacks were counted there, there were four and thirty, and the ticket expressed five and thirty; after the waggon was emptied, I see the team safe home to Mr. Bee's house, at Southwark, and brought Russell back to the office.
Q. What had become of Brockwell all this time? - Brockwell remained at his own house, Brockwell was not taken into custody that night.
Mr. Knapp. You say you are an officer of the police office, Worship-street? - Yes.
Q. Brockwell lives in the same street? - He does.
Q. Near the office? - Within about thirty yards.
Q. You can see the house of Brockwell from the office? - Yes, every moment.
Q. What time of the day was this? - In the evening, high six.
Q. But however it was not so dusk or dark but what at thirty yards distance you could observe what was going on? - No, I did not see it, I went from an information that I had received.
Q. It is a public thoroughfare? - It is.
Q. Of course there were a great number of persons passing and repassing that time of the evening? - No, I don't know that there were.
Q. Mr. Bee is not here? - No, I don't know he is.
Q. Nor Mr. Metcalse? - I have never seen Mr. Metcalse.
Q. What coals were put into the waggon there you don't know of your own knowledge? - I do not.
Q. Nor that they belonged to Mr. Bee of your own knowledge? - I do not.
Q. At the time they were brought into Brockwell's house, there were other people in the house besides Brockwell? - There was.
Q. Was there any secret in conveying these coals into the house? - There was not.
Q. Perhaps he see you there? - He did.
Q. Perhaps he knew you was an officer? - There is no doubt of it.
Q. Have you seen Mr. Bee this morning? - I have not.
Q. I believe Brockwell was not taken into custody then? - He was not.
Q. How long was it afterwards before Brockwell was taken into custody? - Not till the next morning.
Q. He was admitted to bail? - He was.
Q. He now surrenders to take histrial this morning? - Yes, there is no doubt about that.
Q. And all this happened you seeing it take place in Mr. Brockwell's house? - Yes.
Prisoner. I was sitting in the room, and this man came rushing in, and he says, my boy, will you buy a sack of
I am a victualler, in St. John's street, Bethnal-green. I was in Worship-street one evening about six o'clock, I cannot say how long ago, some time before Christmas; I see a coal waggon stand about twenty yards before I came to the police office, Shoreditch,
Q. At whose door was it? - I don't know; I see the carman belonging to the coal waggon; curiosity led me to mark what he was about; I see him go to a door, I crossed the way in order to hear what was going forward; I heard him say to the people within doors, you may as well take them, take them, have them; the reply that was made from within, I cannot tell; he came away and went back to the same door again a second time, and was urging them as I thought, more forcibly to have them than before.
Q. Did he succeed then? - No, I think he went four times before he prevailed on them to have them, and the third or fourth time, he said, you might as well have them before I go away, he even forced them on them, as I thought; when I see this I went to the police, and gave information myself, and one of the men came along with me.
Q. Was the man, Ray? - I think he was; but before I went to acquaint Ray, I heard the carman say to the other man, go and undo the rope, and that made me go to the police office; when I came from the police with the officer, we walked by the waggon twice, before we see what they were doing, and there at last we see the man having the sack on his back, and going into the very same door he was speaking at before.
Q. Did you see him shoot them down? - I did not.
Q. Whose house was it in? - I don't know the people.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I have seen him since, but I did not know him before.
Q. That was the same house into which the coals were carried, where there had been three applications made before he would take them in? - It was so; there is one circumstance I rather forgot; he told him he had better have them, they belonged to some boy, I think he said they were boys coals.
Q. Do you remember Brockwell saying any thing, or seeing him there? - I do not recollect hearing him say any thing, I see him sit in a chair.
Q. Did you know Brockwell before? - No.
Q. Do you know him now? - I think I should know him if I was to see him, I am not certain.
The prisoner called two other witnesses, who said he was a fearlet dier, and gave him an excellant character.
Jury to Price. Is there such things as
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Q. Do you know of any money being lost lately? - I lost the money myself, on the 24th of December, at the Pea Hen inn ; I left my box there; I was a passenger come from Norwich in the Norwich waggon, and I left my box at the inn while I went to Chelsea; when I went to Chelsea I staid there till the middle of the day, and then I asked Mrs. Barrett, at Chelsea, to go with me to the inn for the box, and I met Mr. Green at the corner of Bishopsgate-street, I asked him if he could take a box and bundle to carry it down to Chelsea? he said he could; accordingly I went afterwards to my box at the sign of the Pea Hen, in Bishopsgate-street, to take one guinea out of the seven that I had in a box in the box, to pay the waggoner; accordingly the waggoner uncorded the box, I unlocked the box myself, and I took one guinea from seven out of this small box which I have now in my pocket, and got it changed, while I was about this, Green came in at the same time, he said, good woman, are you ready? - I said, if you please to stop two or three minutes till I get change for a guinea; accordingly he stopped, I agreed with him for eighteen-pence to carry my box to Chelsea. He came in at the time the Norwich waggoner was cording my box the second time, he see me get change for the guinea, I delivered the box to him with six guineas of gold in it, he carried it to the corner of Bishopsgate-street where his cart stood. His horse met with a misfortune and fell down and he left the box at the corner of a street, and I stood by it till he came the second time and took the box, I said, Mr. Green, will you let me ride in the cart? - No, he said, you cannot, nor you shall not; accordingly I told him to leave the box at Mrs. Anderson's, the Royal Hospital, at Chelsea, and if I was not there she would pay him for the box; and I and Mrs. Barrett went home to Chelsea; about six o'clock in the evening I went to see if my box was at Mrs. Anderson's, and I see the cart turn from the corner as I got near to Mrs. Anderson's house, I went and asked if a box was left for me? says I, Mrs. Anderson, is there a box left here for me? she said, yes, here is a box left here for you, and you are to pay me eighteen-pence; I went in and saw the box, and it was open, I had locked it when I gave it him; I said, good God! my box is broke open; Mr. Anderson said, that is the way that the man left the box, accordingly I got two men to carry the box to Mrs. Barrett's (there is two handles to my box, one at each end) where I lodge, and instantly I got in I examined my box, the first thing of course I looked to was this box where my money was lodged, and I opened the box and there was but one guinea out of six, I said, Mrs. Barrett, I am robbed of five guineas; I unsolded every thing that I had, and shaked them out, and I examined every thing very carefully and very strictly, and not a single farthing but one guinea left out of the six guineas
Q. Did you know this man before? had you ever seen Green before? - No, I never did.
Q. Now tell me how your box was sastened? - When I gave it to him at the Pea Hen, it was safe locked and corded.
Q. When you get to Chelsea what part was broke open? - Did the cord remain on it? - The cord was loose on it, and an old mattress on it that I brought from the West Indies with me; I am an old traveller.
Q. When did you see the prisoner again? - In his own house, on Christmas morning; I went to him, and first of all the door was opened, and he was sitting on a chair by the fire side, I said, Mr. Green, how came my box to be broke open? says he, how do I know? says I, Mr. Green, you must know, for it was delivered safe locked and corded to you; says he, how do you know that it could not be broke open at Mrs. Anderson's; I then said to him, mind, I tell you that I come to acquaint you of what has happened with my box, I have lost five guineas out of it, and if you do not make me a restitution for my money, I certainly will go to Bow-street to-morrow morning; he said, you may go where you please, I will stand my trial for it. This happened to me on the 24th, and the 25th was Christmas Day; on the 25th I went to Bow-street.
Mr. Fielding. In the first place, this man is the common carrier that drives the cart between the Pea Hen and Chelsea? - He is.
Q. And he carried many other parcels in his cart besides your's? - He did.
Q. You gave him direction when he carried your box, to leave it at the Royal Hospital? - I did.
Q. There you found it? - I did.
Q. What is your husband? - He is an invalid, at Jersey.
Q. What is he? - A soldier.
Q. What may you be? - I came with an intent to get my husband from garrison if I could, as there is a gentleman belonging to the regiment that is here, that would wish to get my husband from garrison in order to be a recruiting serjeant for the sencibles that are now raising.
Q. How long was you to stay at Chelsea? - Till such time as I wrote a letter to my husband, and if my husband could not come from garrison I meant to go back to him.
Q. What situation of life are you in? - I am nothing but a poor woman, and since this affair of the money being lost, I am living on the clothes I have.
Q. What have you been doing with yourself since? - I landed from the West Indies July last; a gentleman heard of the ill situation of the Jerseys, and as such I was billetted at a very respectable house, the Magpie, at Chelsea.
Q. How did you become possessed (in the situation in which you are in) of seven guineas when you set out from Norwich? - I was worth ten guineas when I set out from Norwich.
Q. When you set out from Norwich, I am surprised you did not take your little stock in your pocket? - If I had thought of any casualty happening of that kind I certainly should.
Q. In fact, all your stock was in that box, and you took one guinea out of it in town? - I did, I took one guinea out of seven.
Q. When you was in town and had only to go to Chelsea, why did not you
Q. You had an opportunity of taking out your box and putting it in your pocket? - I had.
Q. What time of the day was this that you saw this man at the Pea Hen, in Bishopsgate-street? - About two o'clock.
Q. And what time of the day was it you found your box? - About six o'clock at night.
Q. How soon was it he left Bishopsgate-street? - I cannot tell that, because as soon as he took the box from me and put it in the cart, I left the cart.
Q. How long did you stay in town, before you set off yourself for Chelsea? - I set off immediately.
Q. At what part of the house was it you saw the box at Mrs. Anderson's? - In the tap room.
Q. Not in the bar belonging to the house? - No, in the tap room, on the first table.
Q. Did he go with you to Green? - Yes, he did, first of all.
Q. When did you first of all complain to Anderson, either to the brother or the person that keeps the house? - The very same night, at seven or eight o'clock; the next morning I went again, Saunders, the constable, was there at the same time; Mrs. Anderson said to him, this is the poor woman that has been robbed out of Green's cart.
Court. Did Green see you put the money into the box after taking out the guinea? - No, he did not.
Q. Had Green any opportunity of knowing whether there was any money in the box or no? - No, only if he had suspicion when I told him to wait till I got change for the guinea.
Q. Had he any other things in his cart besides your box? - Yes, a great many other things.
I live at No. 12, Royal Hospital-row, Chelsea; my brother keeps the Royal Hospital; about six o'clock this night I see a large box in the tap room, and it was open, then I see Mr. Green at the bar door, but I did not see him bring in the box, I don't know who brought it in.
Q. That was before the woman came in? - Yes, before the woman came in.
Q. Who were about the house? - There were seven or eight persons in the house at the time.
Q. Did you know these seven or eight persons? - There was the quarterman there, I cannot pretend to say who they were all; I was in the tap room when the woman came in for the box, she came in for the box, and my sister told her there was eighteen-pence to pay for the box, she looked at the box and said, my box is open! says I, what then? it is as it came; she asked if there was any body there that would carry it home for her? - I said, there were two young men that would carry her box, and they went off together with it, and soon after that she came back and said she had lost five guineas.
Mr. Fielding. Do you know Mr. Green? - Yes, I have known him for these ten years; he bears a very good character.
Q. This cart does not take passengers, but parcels? - It is an errand cart.
I live at Chelsea; I went to the Pea Hen, in Bishopsgate-street, along with Mrs. Malagan, and see her deliver the box locked and corded to Mr. Green.
Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel, no farther than my cart stood in Grace-church-street instead of Bishopsgate-street.
I am about fourteen, the brother; I went with this cart.
Q. Did you see the box when it was put into the cart? - Yes.
Q. Did you see it when it was delivered? - Yes, I helped it on my brother's shoulder.
Q. Was it delivered just in the same way at the Royal Hospital as you took it at the Pea Hen, Bishopsgate-street? - Yes, just the same.
Q. Had you stopped at any place coming home? - Yes, at a good many places, but never both of us left the cart together.
Q. Did you look at the box when your brother took the box out at Chelsea, to see whether the cord was tight? - No, I did not take so much notice of it.
The prisoner called two other witnesses who gave him a good character.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER.
116. THOMAS BOUNDS was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 4th of February , a silver half pint pot, value 30s. two silver desert spoons, value 10s. a silver sugar castor, value 20s. the goods of James Bardesly , Esq . in his dwelling house .
Q. Do you know Mr. Bardesly? - Yes, I live with him as footman.
Q. What is Mr. Bardesly's christian name? - James.
Q. Did he lose any property the beginning of this month? - Yes, a silver half pint, two silver desert spoons, and a large silver sugar castor. They were taken from the dining parlour, about four o'clock I had laid them there, I missed them the minute the prisoner was gone out of the house. He brought some feathers from Mr. Read, he said, in Oxford-street, for the ladies.
Q. How long was he in the house? - About five minutes. I took the feathers from him, and took them up into the drawing room to the ladies, I left him in the hall at the door.
Q. Was he there when you came down again? - Yes, I gave him the feathers back again, and told him it was a mistake. He went away with them; the moment I came back from him, I went into the parlour, and I see the plate were gone, I went directly to the door, and could not see him. He was found the Friday following.
Q. Did you get your goods again, or any part of the things? - None at all.
Q. The two silver desart spoons? - About eight shillings.
Q. The silver sugar castor? - A guinea, it was a very large one.
Q. Was it old or new? - Old.
Q. Within what time before the prisoner came with the feathers had you seen these things in the dining room? - I had just then come out of the dining room.
Prisoner. I wish to know whether he missed all the four articles at once, or only three? - First of all I only missed the two spoons and the half pint, and the time I was looking for them, my mistress missed the sugar castor.
I am one of the patrol belonging to Bow-street; I live in Oxford-street; the boy, the prisoner at the bar, was brought to me in a hackney coach, on Friday, Mr. Martin, in Bryanston-street, had been robbed about June last, and he made application to me, describing the lad, and bills were given out concerning his loss, with the description of the lad, and he was apprehended.
Q. Do you know any thing about this indictment of Mr. Bardesly's? - No, I know nothing about it.
Q. What are those things you have got in your hand? - Feathers that were brought to me with the prisoner.
In consequence of what happened last June, with Mr. Martin, my son-in-law -
Q. Do you know any thing concerning Mr. Bardesly's plate? - No, I do not at all. But about five minutes after six this lad knocked at my door, I was talking to a gentleman in my parlour, and this boy had got these very feathers, and he said, I have brought these feathers for the ladies, and she knowing this story before, from Mr. Martin, ran down stairs, and said, I have ordered no feathers, and I apprehended him.
Prisoner. If I had been a person to have done such a thing as this, why did not I go to his parlour door? I did not offer to go to his parlour door. I have no witnesses.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER.
117. THOMAS BOUNDS was again indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 2d of January , four silver table spoons, value 30s. seven silver forks, value 40s. the goods of Samuel Johnson , Esq. in his dwelling house .
Q. You are servant, are you? - Yes.
Q. What do you know about the loss of any plate of Mrs. Johnson's? - On the 2d of February the prisoner at the bar came to Mr. Johnson's, and knocked at the door.
Q. Did you go to the door? - Yes, the prisoner said he had brought some feathers for the ladies, he gave me those feathers, and while I went up to shew them to the ladies -
Q. Where did you leave him when you went up stairs? - On the mat in the passage.
Q. How long was you up stairs? - Not five minutes.
Q. When you came down again, where was he? - The boy was gone, and the door left open.
Q. Did you miss any thing? - I missed the seven forks from the side board, and four table spoons from the table.
Q. Where was the side board? - In a room opposite the garden door.
Q. Was the cloth laid? - Yes, for dinner.
Q. How long had you seen them before
Q. What time of the day was this? - Between three and four o'clock.
Q. Did you go yourself into the parlour as soon as you came down and missed the boy? - Yes.
Q. Did you see any thing of the things afterwards? - Not the forks or the spoons that were gone.
Q. You brought the feathers down with you again? - Yes, I brought them down to tell him he had made a mistake, but when I came down the boy was gone.
I live with Mr. Johnson; I was not at home when the boy came, I came home afterwards. I laid the cloth at about half past two, in the parlour, I put eight table spoons on the table, two at each corner, I put five silver forks on the table and two butter spoons, and four silver falts and falt holders; on the side board there were seven silver forks lay all of a heap, and half a dozen desert spoons in the knife case, and one soup ladle.
Q. What time was it you came home? - I believe it was near half past four.
Q. What did you miss when you came home? - I missed the seven forks from the side-board, and four spoons from the table.
Q. Did you see any of this plate again? - No, I have not seen it since.
Q. Then how was you able to say that you missed these things out of the parlour? - My fellow servant told me the cloth was laid.
Q. To Norris. What time of the day was it you went out? - About half past two as near as possible.
GUILTY, Of stealing in the dwelling house to the value of 39s. (Aged 18.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron THOMPSON.
118. THOMAS QUIGLEY , THOMAS TIPSON and THOMAS BATES were indicted for that they, on the 29th of January , in the parish of St. Luke's, a piece of false and feigned copper money did unlawfully counterfeit to the likeness of a halfpenny ; and
The indictment opened by Mr. Cullen, and the case by Mr. Fielding.
I am an officer belonging to the public office, Shadwell. In consequence of some information, I went to a house in Twister's-alley, Bunhill-row , on the 29th of January last, in company with Mr. Aberly and some other officers belonging to Shadwell, we went to the house of Job Cox, as I understood by the information, in the cellar of that house there were the three prisoners at the bar, and a press used for coining, in the press these things for stamping the blanks, they call them cups, they are for plain halfpence. The prisoner Quigley he was sitting in a hole close to the press, the other two prisoners, Bates and Tipson, about two yards from
Q. What were their dress? - Quigley had a coat on, the other two were in jackets; Mr. Aberley went and brought the prisoner Cox down into the cellar, I asked Mr. Aberley, what have you got the landlord of the house with you? he said, yes; the prisoner was there at the time; Cox then asked if Mr. Aberley would let him go up into his room and let him shift his clothes? he was in a jacket himself, and was all black, and had a cap on; I think he had a jacket, I am not positive.
Q. Did you observe his hands? - He was very black all over; he appeared the same as the others that were then working, Mr. Aberley went up stairs with him, I remained in the cellar with the others.
Jury. You did not see them at work, only sitting by the press? - I did not see them at the fly, because in coming down stairs they could very easily get from that.
Q. Do the halfpence that you have there, and the die, correspond? - They do.
Q. You apprehended Cox? - I did, at the public house adjoining; I took him into the cellar where the other prisoners were, I said, Mr. Cox, I understand that you are the proprietor of this house; he said that the house did belong to him; upon which I told him, I was in duty bound to take him along with the other prisoners; he asked me to let him go up and change his clothes, which I did; I went up along with him, and in the closet, where he changed his clothes, there I found two dies, one for halfpence and one for farthings, and in the same room I found these blanks for farthings.
Q. All this money produced, the halfpence and farthings, are they counterfeit? - They are.
Prisoner Bates. I would wish to ask Mr. Cook or Mr. Aberley, what I was particularly doing?
Prisoner Cox. I am a brass founder, and my shop lays at the back part of the house, and every body knows that brass founders are as dirty as chimney sweepers when they are at work. My wife dying last November, the last Christmas Tipson took the house, and was to pay me nine pounds a year out of fourteen pounds that I give for it, and I only kept the shop and was as a single man.
Prisoner Bates. I went to this house. I am a cabinet maker by business; I was told that Mr. Tipson was below stairs in the kitchen, and I called in and Mr. Tipson desired me to come down stairs, I went down and I told him he owed me half a crown, and I was informed he could pay me; he said, he would pay me if I could take halfpence, and he gave me half a crown's worth of halfpence, and I told him they would be no use to me, such halfpence as them, and I was
Prisoner Quigley. I have nothing further to say then that Mr. Tipson employed me.
All four GUILTY .
Imprisoned twelve months in Newgate , and fined 1s .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice ASHURST.
I am a carpenter .
Q. Do you know the prisoner? - No.
Q. Had you seen it there that morning? - No, I had not been at work that morning, we had been at work on Sunday; our master told us that if we would not work on Sunday we might go about our business, and work being scarce we worked; we left work at five o'clock on Sunday evening.
Q. Who told you to work on Sunday? - My master.
Q. And you did not work? - Yes, I did.
Q. I am sorry for it. What time did you come the next morning? - About a quarter past seven, and the hand saw was gone then.
Q. Have you ever seen it since? - Yes, it was found hid under some bricklayers hair, in a vault backwards, were this labourer was employed to make mortar.
I saw the man take the hand saw from the place where the owner left it, and he threw it through some joists among some rubbish, and while I was gone to let my shopmates know, the saw was gone from there to this vault where we found it.
Prisoner. I never meddled with the saw at all; how could he swear to me when several persons were in my dress in particular?
Witness. There were none there then only him.
GUILTY . (Aged 20.)
Publickly Whipped .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER.
I live at Hungerford-street ; I keep a milliner's and haberdasher's shop . On the 7th of this month, the prisoner came into the shop and asked to look at some worsted stockings; I shewed him a parcel, he chose a pair, they came to five shillings, he asked me to shew him some white ribbed cotton.
Q. Were they all the stockings in that parcel? - Yes, they were.
Q. Where was your face when you see him do that? - I stood sideways with my candle in my hand, and see him take up these ten pair, and he ran out of the shop as soon as I see him take hold of them; I said, you have stole my stockings; and he ran away, and I went to the door and called stop thief! then a neighbour caught him, he is here, his name is Cartwright; I have got the stockings here, a person at Mr. Cartwright's house picked them up.
Q. Open them, see if they are your stockings? - Yes, they are my stockings.
Q. Is there any mark on them? - No, it is not the custom of our business to mark the stockings but the paper, and he left the paper on the counter and took the stockings.
Q. Were there just ten pair of stockings in that parcel? - Yes.
Q. Which ten pair you see in his hand? - Yes.
Q. How soon after did you see him again, after he ran away? - About six minutes.
On the 17th of February, I heard the cry of stop thief! and I was in the counting house along with Mr. Broom, and we ran out and saw the prisoner at the bar running very fast by, he was coming as if from Craven-street.
Q. Was he coming as if from Mrs. Tomlinson's shop? - Yes; when he got about twenty yards from the street, I see three gentlemen coming arm in arm, I said, stop him, he is a thief!
Q. Did you see any thing of the stockings? - No, I did not know what he had done till I brought him back again, I brought him back to my door and met Mr. Higgs, the constable, and delivered him up to him; I did not know who gave the alarm till I brought him back.
Q. You are perfectly sure that that is the same man as you saw running? - Yes, he never was out of my sight.
I was at Mr. Cartwright's counting house, and while I was talking to him there, I heard the cry of stop thief! Mr. Cartwright went out and followed the prisoner at the bar, I went to the door, and soon after I went to the door I see something white laying by a post, I went up to them and found they were the ten pair of stockings now produced, I carried them into Mr. Cartwright's shop, but did not know who had lost them then, they then remained there till Mr. Cartwright brought the prisoner back, and then we carried the stockings and prisoner to Mrs. Tomlinson, and I kept the stockings till we went before the magistrate on Monday, when they were delivered to her.
Prisoner. I was coming from Westminster, where I lodged, and coming up Scotland-yard, in Northumberland-street, there is a court, I was coming up the court I heard the halloo out of stop thief! with that I ran up Craven-street, I happened to get the first person on the top of the street, and there were three
Transported for seven years .
121. JOHN GISSIN was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 7th of February , a silver watch, value 30s. a steel watch chain, value 12d. a cornelian seal set in base metal, value 1d. and two metal watch keys, value 2d. the goods of William Whiting .
Q. Was you there at the time? - I was not, I was out at my business, attending the East India company.
Q. Have you got the watch again? - No.
Q. Have you ever seen it since? - Yes.
Q. Who has got it? - Barker, the pawnbroker, in Houndsditch.
Q. Have you got the watch? - Yes.
Q. Did he pledge it? - He did.
Q. For how much? - For one guinea.
Q. How soon did the prosecutor come after it? - About two o'clock.
Prosecutor. This is my watch, I know it by the outside case, the name, the key, and seal, they are all my own property.
Q. What time had you gone out that morning? - About nine o'clock.
Q. And left the watch there? - Yes.
Prisoner's Counsel. Did you always say that you was certain of the prisoner's person? - Yes, I did.
Q. Did not you say before the magistrate that you could not swear to him? - I said, I would not swear to him, I did not like to affect his life.
Court. But did not you know that you was to speak the whole truth? - I was not sworn when I said so.
Q. Why should you wish to favour the man if he is guilty? are you sure that he is the man? - Yes, I am certain.
Q. Was you at home about twelve or one o'clock, on the 7th of February? - I was, I went up stairs to make the bed, and leaving a young child in the room I shut the door, but did not lock it; I came down and missed my watch, and while I was looking for the watch Mr. Giffin, the prisoner, came in and asked me what was the matter? I told him I had missed a watch; he said, he would not give any thing for the watch, and when my husband came in and talked about going to the pawnbrokers, he said, he thought he would not get it by that
Q. Did the prisoner come in from the street? - He came up stairs while I was making the bed, and seeing me there, he went down again directly, and did not come in again till I had missed the watch.
Prisoner's Counsel. There were other lodgers in the house? - There were not at that time.
- SEARLE sworn.
On this 7th of February the prosecutor came to me and said he had lost his watch; we went to the pawnbroker's, and the pawnbroker went with us to the prosecutor's house, and we called the young man down, and the pawnbroker said that was the man that pawned the watch, and then we had an officer, and then we went up to his room and told him he had better confess if he was guilty, and if Mr. Whiting could make it up, he would; he said, he was willing to make Mr. Whiting satisfaction, for he had pawned the watch and burned the duplicate.
Prisoner. I am not given to do any such thing.
The prisoner called four witnesses who said he was a shoe-maker, and gave him a good character.
Judgment respited .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER
Q. Do you know the prisoner? - Yes.
Q. What part of the house was it in? - About a yard and a half from the door, on the top of a block, I was cutting about three pounds of steaks from it, about six o'clock at night, and I had been taking some of the new kind of halfpence; I took them in doors to shew them my wife, and on my return I lost the beef. A boy, William Johnson , told me that he see a man take it out of the shop, I asked the lad which way he went? he told me down the street; I ran about forty yards from my own door and I could not see any thing of the prisoner, I came back and went into a public house about ten yards from my own door, and asked if any person had been in there with a piece of beef, they told me they had not seen any such person; on my returning out of the house I met William Johnson, sir, says he, here is the man with the beef at a chandler's shop; I went to the place, about ten yards from the public house, and I see the prisoner putting the beef into a scale, (one Mr. Smith keeps the chandler's shop) I goes in, and he was offering it him for sale as I was at the door, and I heard Mr. Smith say, I will have nothing at all to do with it, no, say I, the beef is mine, I said to the prisoner, my friend, I have seen you before in my shop, and I had turned him out of my shop twice before that; I laid hold of the prisoner and brought him to the justice for the good of the neighbourhood I hope.
WILLIAM JOHNSON sworn.
Q. Do you remember seeing the prisoner on the 29th of January? - I do.
Q. How old are you? - Turned of fifteen. As I was going to ask my father to come to supper, I see this man at this butcher's door taking this piece of beef; he took it up and put it up in his black apron, and he crossed over the way to me, and said, what are you looking at? I asked him what did he think I was looking at? and he made an attempt to strike me, and then he goes down the street and went into this chandler's shop, and I ran back to this gentleman and told him that he was in a chandler's shop down the street, and he went with me and took the prisoner.
Q. To Prosecutor. Did you know the piece of beef by the sight of it? - Yes, I had just been cutting some steaks off it; I am very sure it was my beef.
Prisoner. I was coming along at six o'clock at night and I kicked over this piece of beef, I did not know what it was at first, it was so dark, and the first light I came to I took it in and I found it was a piece of beef, after I had been in about five minutes this man came in and said it was his beef.
To Prosecutor. What is the value of that beef? - Six shillings it was valued at.
GUILTY. (Aged 22.)
Judgment respited .
Tried by the First Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice ASHURST.
The case opened by Mr. Knowlys.
I am an officer belonging to Whitechapel public office. On the 22d of January, Thursday, about four o'clock in the afternoon, I saw this boy, Nash, with something in a kind of nail bag that the cooper's carry their tools in, and I see Jones following at a little distance, it was in King-street, Tower-hill; I suspected something, I went up to Nash -
Q. In what direction were they going? - Towards East-smithfield. I asked him what he had got there? he said he did not know; he said, the cooper was behind who would tell me, I turned round and I observed Jones run up the corner of another street as sharp as possible; as soon as I said hold of the boy there happened to be a person just by, I gave Nash in charge of him and went after Jones, I went up to him and I said, now you have got the boy into a hobble you are going to leave him; he said, what boy? I don't know of any boy; on which I said to him, come with me down to him. I brought him back to the boy, and I asked the boy if that was the man? he said it was.
Q. Was that in the hearing and presence of Jones? - It was as close as they stand now. I asked him what tho boy had got? he said, it was a little dirty grease that somebody had given to him, the scrapings of some casks; I examined it but I did not know it was oil myself, it was so froze and in such a congealed state.
Q. Did the boy Nash say any thing more about it? - He persisted he did not
Q. Did he tell you that in the hearing of Jones? - No, he did not; I took Nash with me down into Thames-street, to shew me the warehouse where he had it from.
Q. What warehouse did you go to? - On Chester Key, he said, that was the warehouse.
Q. Have you learned whose warehouse that is since? - I have seen Mr. Batley's clerk since that, and he says it is their warehouse.
Q. Did you at any time see any of Mr. Batley's servants on that spot afterwards? Did you ever see Mr. Batley there? - No, I have not, I have seen his clerks.
Q. When you went to the magistrate was any thing said either by Jones or the boy? - Jones confessed it all before the magistrate.
Q. Was it taken in writing? - I believe it was.
Q. Before it was taken in writing did any body tell him it would be better for him to confess? - No, there was nothing said of it in my hearing.
Q. What is become of the property since? - It has been locked up in one of our places ever since.
Q. It is now in a liquid state? - No, it is froze again.
Q. Have you had the care of it ever since? - The property has been in my care ever since.
Q. Did you take the property yourself from the prisoner? - Yes, from Nash.
Q. Do you know any thing of Follitt? - I apprehended Wager, and he told of Follitt.
Q. Do you know the hand writing of Mr. Davis, the magistrate? - Yes, I do.
Q. Look at that. (The examination shewn him.) Is that his hand writing? - Yes.
Q. Did you see that examination? - I did; I was clerk.
The voluntary examination and consession of Evan Jones , charged with felony, says, "That on Thursday last, I was at work on Brewer's Key, for Mr. Batley; when I had finished my work I put my tools into my bag; about half after two o'clock in the afternoon, I was going to Mr. Batley's clerk, to settle with him for my wages, but Follitt and Wager insisted on my stopping till they had done, to lend them a hand; at last I agreed to stop and assist them for about an hour; I asked Wager who was to pay me for that work, my work being piece work? they said they would pay me; by that when I had done, I see them put some oil into a bag, and they desired me to go along with the boy to sell it; there was another man whom I don't know, said if I carried it to Petticoat-lane I should get more for it there than any where else; I accordingly followed the boy to Petticoat-lane, where I offered it to fell to two people, but they would not give me any thing for it; and I said to the boy, we will carry it back again where we had it from; and as we were carrying it back the oil began to run, and I took off my apron, and put it round it; by Rosemary-branch-alley I slipped and hurt my leg, the boy went on, the officer took the boy, and then followed and took me; I expected as much as the boy had for my trouble, but there was not any agreement made.
Andrew Nash read.)
The voluntary examination and consession of Andrew Nash , charged with felony."Andrew Nash says, on Thursday last, in the afternoon, I was at a fire at Chester Key, where I saw Henry Follitt , he asked me if I would carry a load? I said, yes; he then sent me down into the cellar with Evan Jones , and Evan Jones helped the oil from the cask into my bag, and Follitt sent me into Petticoat-lane with Jones, and he went into a public house, and came out again, and desired me to follow him; I followed him to a gingerbread baker's, they said they would not have any thing to do with it, for they were afraid it was not come by honestly; I did not make any agreement what I was to have, Jones said I should he paid for it.
Signed, Androw Nash."
I am clerk to Mr. Batley, he is an oil broker, I know Follitt and Jones. About four or five o'clock, on Thursday, the 22d of January, I heard of the robbery.
Q. In what place were they at work for him that day? - At Brewer's Key, and Chester's Key.
Q. Were they at work either of them, or both of them, in that part which you told him was Mr. Batley's warehouse? - Yes, they were; Jones was employed to hoop the oil casks, Follitt was employed to sill up oil; both of them about the oil business.
Q. Do you know what oil it was that they were employed about? - Olive oil.
Q. I believe you are a constable? - Yes.
Q. Did you apprehend Follitt? - Yes, on the 24th of January, in the Maze, in the Borough, I received information that he was concerned in this oil, and that he had absconded from his own house.
Q. When you apprehended him did he say any thing? - He said he knew nothing of the oil; I asked him the reason he kept away from his house? he said he did not keep away.
Mr. Knapp. This was two days afterwards you took him? - Yes.
Q. I believe you are an oil broker? - Yes.
Q. Do you know Jones and Follitt? - Yes.
Q. They were employed by you, we understand, at the time this matter took place? - Yes.
Q. Was Follitt constantly employed by you or not? - He has been constantly employed by me for four years.
Q. Did you see him after the Thursday that this happened? - I did not until the Saturday.
Q. Did you find him employed in your service on the Saturday? - No, I did not.
Mr. Knapp. When did you go out of town? - On Thursday evening.
Q. That was the very day in which you are supposed to have lost your oil? - Yes.
Q. When did you return again? - On the Saturday following.
Mr. Knowlys to Ailwyn. Did Follitt appear in his business after the Thursday that this happened? - He came on Friday morning and staid till breakfast time, I did not see him after.
JOSEPH WAGER sworn.
Q. We understand you was concerned in this very wicked piece of business. Tell us all you know about it, and about those persons that were concerned in it; and mind you speak the truth? - I was in the employment of Mr. Batley on the 22d of January; I see Henry Follitt put in some oil into some stranger's apron.
Q. How could the oil stay there? - It was froze so hard it would not run through the apron.
Q. Did you know any of these strangers? - No, I did not.
Q. Have you seen them since? - No, I have not.
Q. Is it any of the people that are here? - No.
Q. Were these people present at the time? - Yes.
Q. Where was it this happened? - At Chester Key.
Q. On the Key? - Yes, on the open Key. On returning from this transaction, they brought a pot of oil with them back; after that Follitt put some oil into a man's ap on that was with this person, Nash, and they went away.
Q. About what time of the day was it that Follitt put it into the apron of a man that came with Nash, and they went away? - About the middle of the day, I cannot say particularly when; on the return of Nash and this man, they brought a pot of purl, they said they had sold it in East Smithfield for eighteen-pence, at an iron shop; and when this Jones had done his work (he worked piece work) he said he knew two people in Petticoat-lane to fell the oil to.
Q. Was Follitt by? - Yes, Follitt said he knew a place a doctor's shop, just over Tower-hill; then Follitt and Jones, and Nash got about the cask, and put some oil in a bag.
Q. What oil was it? - Olive oil.
Q. What did they do with the jack of oil? - They put it out from the jack in the cellar, into the same bag.
Q. Who were present then? - There were two, Follitt I think was one, I cannot say to the other; I was not there after that; I went with a jack to fill up at a different part of the Key, at my employment.
Q. Did you hear it said by any body, what was to be done with this oil that was put into the bag? - Jones was going to carry it to Petticoat-lane, to two places where he knew where to fell it at; at that night when he returned, we were to meet at the Ipswich Arms, in Lower Thames-street, these three and me, Follitt, Jones, and Nash.
Q. Did you see it carried away? - I see Jones and Nash going off with it.
Q. What was you to meet at the Ipswich Arms for? - For the purpose of sharing the money. We staid there an hour and half at the Ipswich Arms, me and Follitt, waiting for Jones and Nash.
Q. Did they come? - No; after that me and Follitt went over the water, to Jones's house, to see whether he had not been home; he had not been home; then we went from there to a public house the corner of Bermondsey-street, the Shipwright's Arms, we did not find him.
Q. How long was it before you gave this account of your share in the transaction? - How came you to tell of this matter? - I thought it was the best way to tell of it when I was taken up.
Q. Then you did not make this discovery before? - No.
Q. Now this was in the middle of the day, was it? - At the time the oil was filling up on the Key, that was all day.
Q. Is there any one else works on the Key besides your master? - Other coopers do.
Q. So these men were all day plundering your master, at different times, and you keeping it snug till you was apprehended? - Yes.
Q. How long was it before you had the good luck to be taken up? - I was taken up the next day at my work.
Q. Did not you tell your master, or Mr. Ailwyn? - No.
Q. You was to have a slice of it, a part of the booty, and you went to Jones's house afterwards; it was very unlucky not to find him at home; so then your share, how much was it to be? - I did not know what he was going to sell it for.
Q. What was you to have for your share? - An equal part.
Q. It was a very unlucky thing that you did not get your share of it; and the moment you got before a magistrate, out you came with this story, and not before? - No.
Q. You know you save yourself from being tried at this bar by giving your evidence? - Yes, I do.
Q. You have been in custody ever since, and brought down in custody to the court? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys to Ailwyn. What quantity is there now produced? - About four gallons, it is worth four shillings and eleven pence a gallon.
Q. Is that the sort of oil that Mr. Batley had the charge of? - Yes, it is.
Prisoner Jones to Wager. You say I was present on the Key when that man took the oil away in his apron; I was not within a hundred yards; I was at the bottom of the key. - It is false.
Q. You did not see me put the oil in the bag? - I see you put the oil in the bag.
Q. He says he see me and the boy go down with the oil; I went a different way. - He was behind the boy, when the boy got to the top of the gateway he was in the middle.
Q. He says, I said, I knew two people that would buy the oil, I never said such a word. - He said he knew two men in Petticoat-lane that he knew would buy the oil.
Prisoner Nash. That man says, that how I took oil into the cellar, and put it into a bag, it is a false thing.
Court to Wager. Do you say it is true on your oath, what you said before? - It is.
Prisoner Nash. I am a hard working man, and being out of constant employ, I went down to the Key to see if I could earn a sixpence; and I walked down the Key, and was returning back again, finding no work to do, and as I was returning I see a fire; I went to the fire to warm my hands, and there Follitt asked me to carry a load, and directed me down into this cellar along with Jones, and one of them desired me to go to Petticoat-lane with it, with Jones, and when I came to Petticoat-lane, Jones sent me into a public house to call for a pint of beer; I went into the public house and called for a pint of beer, and Jones went to see if he could find this man that he was directed to with this oil, he could not, and he came back to me, and told me he would take the oil from whence it came; as I was coming back with it, one of the officers stopped me, and asked me what I had got there?
Prisoner Jones. On Thusday, the 22d of January, I was at work for Mr. Batley, on Brewer's Key; Mr. Batley sent for me three days before to do this job, out of charity, as I had no work to do. I have got a wife and three small children. So I finished this job about half past two o'clock, and I said to Wager, I am going; says Wager, you shall not go till we are done this job, and Wager d-ned his eyes, and said, I should not stir from the place till they had done; at last I consented, and lent them a hand to fill up the oil for about an hour; this bag was filled while I was filling the cask up, and I was ordered to go with it, by Wager's orders, and I went to the man that I was directed to, and the man was not at home, and the woman would not take it in, and so I agreed to take it back again, not knowing what to do with it.
Prisoner Follitt. I leave all it to my counsel.
Henry Follitt, GUILTY . (Aged 30.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
124. FRANCIS EDWARDS was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 12th of February , one loaf of sugar, of the weight of six pounds, value 4s. three pounds weight of other sugar, value 1s. and fifteen nutmegs, value 2s. the goods of James Bennett , Capel Cure , Henry Cope , and Joseph Jellicoe .
A second COUNT, laying the goods to be the property of persons, or person unknown.
Q. What do you know respecting the loss of this sugar? - They are articles that I cannot possibly swear to, but we deal in articles of that kind; the nature of our business does not admit of saying that we have lost exactly these articles.
Q. Then what is it you are enabled to say respecting this charge against the prisoner? - On Thursday night last two constables, whose names are mentioned in the indictment, (Jostling and Gardiner) came to me and said they had found -
Q. They came to give you some information? - Yes.
Q. Had they any body in custody when you see them first? - No.
Q. Did you see any body before the alderman? - Yes, I saw this man, he had been my servant about two years.
Q. Were there any goods then produced? - They were, some sugars of different qualities, and some nutmegs.
Q. Who had these articles then? - The constable, the man who came to me.
Court. What have you done with the articles? - I left them in the hands of the constable, I could not swear to them.
I am a constable belonging to the city. On Thursday night, the 6th of January, going round on my duty, between the hours of seven and eight, I was in Lad-lane, I observed the prisoner with a smock frock on in Lad-lane, I observed something to bulge out at the side under it.
Q. Was he walking? - Walking; I stopped him and asked him what he had got? and he immediately took out this loaf of sugar from under his frock; I then asked him how he came by it; he said, he was a porter at Mr. Davis's and Newman's, in Fenchurch-street; I then searched him and perceived when I put my hands into his pocket; I said, my friend, I shall take you to the Castle, the corner of King-street, and search you; he said, I will go with you; he went with me very quietly, and then when we came to the Castle, I took one of these parcels of sugar from his pocket, and the other he gave me from his pocket; I then searched him farther and underneath his smock frock and waistcoat, in his breeches, I took this quantity of sugar, it contains moist sugar in two bags; I then searched him further, and in one of his jacket pockets I found fifteen nutmegs; I then went to Mr. Davis's and Newman's, in Fenchurch-street, and went to the counting house and did not hear that he belonged to that house, and there they went with me to Mr. Bennett's, where I found he was a servant.
- GARDINER sworn.
Q. Were you with Mr. Jostling at this time? - Yes.
Q. Was you with him when he stopped the prisoner? - Yes.
Q. You have heard what Mr. Jostling has said on that subject? - Yes.
Q. You was present all the time? - Yes.
Q. When Mr. Jostling stopped him did you see the prisoner produce any thing from his smock frock? - He produced this loaf of sugar.
Q. Did you hear him say where he came from or whom he lived with? - He said, he lived with Davis and Newman, in Fenchurch-street.
Q. When they got to the Castle did you see those other articles produced? - Yes, just in the same manner as Jostling says.
Not GUILTY .
125. JAMES GEORGE LYLE , otherwise JAMES GEORGE SEM-PLE , was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 18th of November , a yard of sprigged muslin, value 10s. three yards of callico, value 4s. and a linen shirt, value 15s. the goods of Thomas Wattleworth .
The case opened by Mr. Knowlys.
Q. Did you hear what past, or see what past between Mr. Wattleworth and him? - I was not present at the time; Mr. Wattleworth called to me to take down his address, I took a book which was kept for that purpose and afterwards shewed it to him; the name which he gave me was lieutenant colonel George Lyse, there was also put down Mrs. Cunningham, Egham-green, but whether that was made before or after I cannot be positive.
Q. Did you shew him the book? - Yes, he said it was right.
Q. Had you made the entry of Mrs. Cunningham, and her address, from what you heard of the gentleman at the bar? - The yard of muslin and three yards of callico was down in the book, to Mrs. Cunningham, Egham-green.
Q. Did you take that down from what you heard at his mouth? - Yes.
Q. You may as well produce the book where you took down the order, and the book where you have credited Mrs. Cunningham. (The order book produced.)(Witness reads from the order book.)
"Lieutenant colonel Lyle, Mrs. Cunningham, Egham-green."
(Reads from the credit book.) "Mrs. Cunningham, Egham-green, one yard of six-quarters sprigged muslin, twelve shillings; and three yards of nine-eighths white callico, five shillings." The shirt is put into the memorandum book till such time as we received his order.(Reads from the memorandum book.)
"Lieutenant colonel Lyle, one half trimmed shirt." No mark, only our private mark for seventeen shillings and sixpence.
Mr. Knapp. Did the prisoner come to you in the dress in which he is now in? - No, he did not.
Q. You understood that he had lately come from the Continent? - I did not know the prisoner at all.
Q. You know it now that he has served in the army on the Continent? - I have heard so.
Q. I think you said, that he said that he had lately come from the Continent? - He said, he came from Mrs. Cunningham's, and she had been a ready money customer with Mr. Wattleworth, I supposed so; I had but lately come to Mr. Wattleworth's.
Q. Where this ready money customer lived you did not know, whether at York or Barnet, or where, she might live at Egham-green, for what you know of your own knowledge? - I don't know.
Q. After having given credit for this muslin and callico, these articles were
Q. A servant in livery, was it? - I don't know that he was in livery.
Q. There was a servant that was said to be Mrs. Cunningham's servant? - I don't know to the contrary.
Q. It was not till after that time that he talked, or had said any thing to Mr. Wattleworth about the shirt? - It was not.
Q. So that that bargain was completely struck as with Mrs. Cunningham, and delivered to Mrs. Cunningham's servant? - Yes.
Q. Now we will get along to the shirt? - The shirt; Mr. Wattleworth came into the shop at the time.
Q. He was to take one home by the permission of Mr. Wattleworth? - That Mr. Wattleworth will best explain himself.
Q. I believe the prisoner was examined a great many times at Bow-street? - I believe he was.
Q. I believe you attended on account of some gentlemen giving their opinion whether this was a felony or no? - I don't know, I was entirely under the direction of Mr. Wattleworth.
Q. Now this shirt, who did you deliver it to? - To lieutenant colonel Lyle.
Q. When was you at Bow-street? - I don't exactly recollect the day.
Q. You don't recollect the major offering to pay for the shirt? - I believe he sent up a person to our master, saying he would pay for what articles he had, and return the shirt; I think this was after the first night of his appearance at Bow-street.
Q. Then after the first night of his appearance at Bow-street he sent up word to your master, offering to pay for all these articles and return the shirt? - Yes, I believe that is as near as I can state it; I heard it mentioned.
Mr. Knowlys. No offer of this kind was made by him, or any body sent by him, till after Mr. Wattleworth appeared against him at Bow-street? - No.
Q. Was this shirt sold? - No, he only took it as a pattern.
Q. Do you know the prisoner, the gentleman at the bar? - Yes, I do.
Q. Tell us what past between him and you on this occasion? - On the 18th of November last, about noon, on going into my shop, I observed the prisoner at the bar in treaty with my young man about shirts; on my coming into my shop my young man observed to him, that is Mr. Wattleworth; he addressed himself to me, and told me he had come from his sister, Mrs. Cunningham, that she had recommended him, and he wanted a parcel of shirts; I shewed him one which he fixed on, and which was agreed that he should take it down to his sister that night, as he conceived that she was a much better judge of linen than him, and that he meant to return to town the next morning and would bring
Q. That was on Monday night, the 6th of January? - It may be so.
Q. Did you before or after that make enquiry at Egham-green? - I did not before, it was afterwards; I made this enquiry myself, I went to Egham, I enquired in the first place of the overseer of the parish, and he went with me to several other persons, as he said, the oldest inhabitants of the place.
Q. Who did you enquire for? - For Mrs. Cunningham; I found there was no such person at Egham, nor had lived at Egham for any time. The colonel was very well known there, but not Mrs. Cunningham.
Q. Did you find such a place as Egham-green? - There is no such place as Egham-green, there is Inglefield-green; I did not go to Inglefield-green, but I made enquiry of those that kept house at Inglefield-green, and they said there was no such person lived there, there had been a person of that name who had lived there about eight or ten years ago.
Q. As to the value of the goods, is that a fair value that you put in the indictment? - Yes, it is.
Q. Did you hear any thing of the colonel between that time and the time you saw him at Bow-street? - No, I did neither see nor hear of him.
Mr. Knapp. Mrs. Cunningham, we understand, had been a ready money customer of your's? - Yes.
Q. A Mrs. Cunningham had also lived at Egham? - At Inglefield-green there had been a Mrs. Cunningham, about eight or ten years, so I was informed.
Q. In consequence of Mrs. Cunningham being a ready money customer, you was induced to give credit for these goods? - The credit was given before I came in, on his making use of the name of Mrs. Cunningham.
Q. The making use of the name of Mrs. Cunningham, being a ready money customer of your's, you was induced to let him have the shirt to return the next morning? - Certainly.
Q. You stated to my learned friend, that Mrs. Cunningham was not known at Egham, but the colonel was known at Egham? - It was so.
Q. And he told you that her address was at Egham or Egham-green? - Exactly so.
Q. You say you did not make any enquiry till after you had been at Bow-street, and I suppose you was induced to do so from the recommendation that you received there, to make enquiry about it? - It was so.
Q. Therefore the time that this shirt was lent in order to be returned the next day, that did not go the length to induce you to make any enquiry till after you see the prisoner at Bow-street? - It did not.
Q. I believe at Bow-street there were three examinations? - There were.
Q. Now, how long was it before he offered to pay for the things? - I don't know that it was ever offered; the evening after my appearance at Bow-street, a person came to me and asked me whether I did not appear against lieutenant colonel Lyle? I told him I did; says he, sir, if he will pay you for the articles he has had of you, and return the shirt, will you give it up and not appear against him in the evening? I told him I knew nothing of him, who he was, or who he came from; and I believe he said he came from lieutenant colonel Lyle.
Q. Then this whole long speech is, that this person said, he came from lieutentant colonel Lyle, and was ready to pay for the articles he had had. With respect to Mrs. Cunningham, the articles which he said were for Mrs. Cunningham, you had debited Mrs. Cunningham? - I had.
Q. Not on his credit, but on her credit? - I placed it on her credit.
Q. You say at Egham you went to the overseer? - Yes.
Q. The overseer went about with you? - Yes, and another person.
Q. You probably looked at the parish books? - No, I did not.
Q. Egham is a large place we know? - It is.
Q. You did not enquire at every house? - Not at every house.
Q. But you do not mean to swear that Mrs. Cunningham did not live at Egham? - I could not find her out, I conceive that every enquiry that was necessary, was made.
Q. Have you always been sure about the name of the person that Mr. Lyle made use of? have you always said it was Cunningham? - No.
Q. I believe you made some mistake about it; you first said it was Mrs. Graham? - I did, and I will tell you how that happened; in the Sunday pap I see the advertisement concerning lieutenant colonel Lyle being taken u and I went to Bow-street the next day to see if he was the person.
Q. This is going over the case again. - I am coming to it.
Court. Did you ever say her name was Graham first? - I did; I said, to the best of my recollection, that I thought it was Graham; but I was at that time quite unprepared.
Mr. Knapp. In point of fact did you make enquiry at Inglefield-green? - I did not.
Q. Of course you don't know of your own knowledge whether Mrs. Cunningham had lived there or not? - I had not been at Inglefield-green.
Mr. Knowlys. Though you did not go to Inglefield-green, did you enquire of the people at Inglefield-green? - I did.
Q. Have you ever, from that time to this, heard or seen any thing of Mrs. Cunningham about these articles? - I never have.
Q. And never any application from the colonel till after the affair at Bow-street? - Never till after the first appearance.
Mr. Knapp. You told us that the prisoner had said that he came from the Continent. In point of fact, I believe he had been very ill? - I don't know that.
Q. You don't know that he had received some wounds? - I don't know that, he never told me that.
The prisoner stated in his defence, that I was the malancholy truth that he had had the misfortune to stand at that bar; that since that time he had served
Mr. Knapp addressed the court, that the case was not made out against the prisoner, inasmuch as the muslin and callico were got into the hands of a servant to Mrs. Cunningham, and credited by the prosecutor to Mrs. Cunningham, who was a customer before; and with respect to the shirt, it could not be felony, except he meant to convert it to his own use, and there was proof that he had offered to return it.
Mr. Justice Buller observed, that with respect to the first objection, Mr. Knapp was right, because taking it up in the name of a third person, would not make that a felony, but a fraud; but the shirt stood in a very different predicament, because that was taken up on his own ground, and not by the intervention of a third person; and Mr. Knapp's objection might go to a question of law, but he did not think the court was called to decide on the case on a dry question of law, but on the fact, which fact the jury must decide upon.
Of stealing the shirt. (Aged 27.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER.
I am the captain of a merchant's ship in the coal trade. As I was going along the Strand, on the 27th of November last, on a Thursday, about five o'clock in the afternoon -
Q. What part of the Strand was it? - Near Exeter Change, The prisoner at the bar came up to me and asked me if I was a north countryman? I told him I was; we walked on about ten minutes, and he took something off the flags, on which he asked me to go into a house and see what it was; we went into a public house in the Strand, near Exeter Change, and he opened it out, and it was a red pocket book, he opened the brown paper, what he took up off the flags; within that pocket book there was this cross, in a box, and a piece of paper, saying it was value two hundred and fifty pounds.
Q. You read the paper? - No, I did not; he read the paper to me. There was a stout man sitting in the room, and he said I had a right to fifty pounds, if it was of that value, as I had seen him take it off the flags; on which the prisoner said he had a friend that lived close by, and he would go and get the money; the other stout man and I walked out into the street, near Exeter Change, while he went to his friend.
Q. Did you go into any house? - No, we walked about there about ten minutes.
Q. Who went out of the public house first, you or the prisoner? - We all went out together.
Q. Did you all three walk together for that ten minutes? - Yes.
Q. Then what happened after that? - He came back and said his friend was not at home.
Q. Then the prisoner left you? - Yes, he left us for about ten minutes.
Q. What happened after he came back? - He returned, and said, his friend was not at home, but said, if I would leave what security I had, if I had any money, he would leave this property with me till to-morrow morning ten o'clock,
Q. Did you give him any thing? - I gave him eighteen guineas in all; sixteen guineas and four half guineas.
Q. What did he give you? - He gave me this poppet as I call it.
Q. Was any thing in it? - There was a gold diamond cross.
Q. Do you know the value of these things at all - No.
Q. Is it gold, do you know? are you a complete judge of it? - No, I am no judge at all.
Q. How did you get at the prisoner afterwards? - Peter Mayne took him, he is a runner.
Q. What day did he take him up? - I don't know the day he took him up; the ship went away; it may be five weeks or a month afterwards, I cannot say.
Q. At whose desire did he take him up? - At my desire. I thought it was a fraud; I think it is not the value; I was told so by one Mr. Fox.
I have been in the jewellery line and silver smith for these twenty years, in North-street, Red Lion-square. (The cross shewn him) It is gold, but very bag gold indeed; the jewels are what they call pasts, with a mixture of glass.
Q. What may be the value of the whole? - Less than half a guinea.
Prisoner to Prosecutor. How long is it since you applied to the magistrate for a warrant to apprehend me? was it before you failed you last voyage, or since your return? - Since I came up.
Court. Then you made a voyage before you applied to have him taken up? - Yes.
Q. Where did you go to? - To Newcastle.
Prisoner. Did not you first see me in the lock-up-room, and asked me if I knew you, what was my answer? - I don't know indeed.
Q. I told you no, I believe? - Very likely you might.
Q. Did not you shew me a cross, and asked me if I knew that? - I did.
Q. Is that the same cross? - It is.
Q. What was the reason you told the magistrate that you could not shew it him, it being on board a ship, at Blackwall, when you had shewn it to me the same morning in the lock-up-room? - When I was before the justice, I had it not about me; it was Mr. Fox shewed it to the prisoner that morning, and Mr. Fox had it about him.
Q. Was that the reason you did not produce it before the magistrate? - Yes.
Court. Can you say that is the same cross you had of him? - I made a mark on the back of the cross when I gave it to Mr. Fox.
Prisoner. You recollect Mr. Lucas and you, and Mr. Fox going out in order to have me committed for a further examination. What was the reason I was not fully committed then? - I don't know nothing about it.
Q. Did not you authorise Mr. Lucas, Fox, and Mayne to compromise this matter, provided you could get the money back again that you had lost; and if you had it back again, did not you agree that you would relinquish this prosecution? - I never endeavoured to get any thing of the kind.
Court. Did you ever offer the prisoner to accept any compromise? - No, nothing of the kind.
Prisoner. How came you to be acquainted with my name, in order to have it set down in the warrant to apprehend me?
Q. Should you have known me if you had met me in the street? - I should have known you any where.
Q. Did not Mr. Lucas tell you what sort of a person you was coming to swear to? - No, he did not.
Q. Did not he tell you what sort of a dress I was in? - No, not in the least.
Court. Was any body with this man, when this man was in the lock-up-room? - Yes, several.
Q. Did you know him from the rest? - I knew him instantly.
Prisoner. This money was obtained on the 27th of November; I have been several times at Mayne's house; particularly I was there on the 1st of January, and he never offered to take me into custody. Do you know the day I was apprehended? - I do not.
Prisoner. I have two or three witnesses that will prove that I have been at Mr. Mayne's house about this business, Mr. Mayne charged me with it once, but he never offered to take me into custody; I told him that I knew nothing about it.
Court to Prosecutor. Do you know how long after you see him in the street it was that you took him up at all? - It may be about six weeks.
I am a hair dresser.
Prisoner. Do you recollect my being charged with this business? do you recollect my going to Mayne's house?
Court. Do you know when he was apprehended? - I believe it was a month last Saturday.
Q. Between that and November, do you know any thing particular to state, that passed? - No further than the prisoner calling on me the first Thursday in January, and I went with him to Mr. Mayne's house, he is a runner at one of the offices.
Q. Did any thing pass at all about this business? - Not a circumstance about this business.
Q. Were you in company with this last witness, at Mayne's house, at any time? - I was, either the latter end of December, or the beginning of January, I cannot answer which.
Q. Was any thing said about this cross? - Nothing that I heard of.
Q. Did Mr. Mayne make any charge against this man? - Nothing that I heard of.
GUILTY . (Aged 22.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
My business is a silversmith .
Q. Was you robbed of any coat buttons at any time, or waistcoat buttons? - I was.
Q. Was the prisoner a stranger, or servant? - A stranger.
Q. What day were they taken away? - I think it was the preceding what is
Q. How did it happen? - I was in the shop myself, there were two persons came into the shop, both unknown to me, as it should seem to buy some silver coat and waistcoat buttons; and I had not enough to make up the number that was wanted, and I was to make up the number the next day; on the day I lost them, one of these people, I should suppose it to be one of them, came, it should seem for the buttons, I produced them, and I expected the buttons were going to be paid for, and I was going to cast up what they came to, the price we agreed to the day before; at that instant there was but one, but just as the goods were made up, and ready to be taken away, another came in, and asked some frivolous questions about the lodger, or something.
Q. Where were the buttons? - On the counter.
Q. Coat and waistcoat buttons? - Yes, both together.
Q. Were they silver? - Yes, silver buttons.
Q. What then? - When the second person had opened the door and asked me a certain question about a lodger I knew nothing of, that took my eye for a short space of time from the person that was in the shop before, at that very instant I imagine it to be, it was, that the buttons were missing from the counter.
Q. How many were missing? - Sixteen of each; sixteen coat, and sixteen waistcoat buttons.
Q. What past after that? - The parties went out of the shop, but in my confusion I am unable to say which went out first.
Q. Is the prisoner either of those men? - I knew him when he was brought back to my shop, then I knew him; the knowledge I have of him now I got of him from what I see of him after he was brought back; the transaction happened at candle light, I minded my business more than I did his face.
Q. Did you give any alarm on missing these things? - Yes, I made an alarm very soon after; I hesitated a moment whether I should pursue or not; in short, in the situation I was in, I cannot say whether I jumped over the counter, or went round the counter, but I am told that I jumped over the counter; he was taken in consequence of my alarm, in about two hundred yards, and brought back very soon after.
Q. Was he the man that bargained about the buttons, or that talked about the lodger? - This must be the one, if I am not mistaken, that talked with me about the buttons; I looked on him so, he said it was another.
Q. You must say whether you have a certainty as to that. Do you mean to be positive? - I would wish to stand clear so as to bring nothing bad upon myself; while I was looking at a second person, there was a possibility that my sense of sight might be deceived; I have the greater reason to believe that he is the man, but I may be mistaken, my eye being taken off for a moment.
Q. When he was brought back was any thing found on him? - When he was taken I was in pursuit, and the things were produced to me that I missed out of St. Martin's church yard; I searched him myself; I felt him in this manner, and I found nothing.
Q. How soon were the things brought back to you after he was taken? - I had the things before he arrived in the shop again.
Q. Do you know your buttons again? - It would be very hard to say I knew every button again, they were plain silver buttons; the coat buttons were on a card, and the breast buttons were each
Q. Then how can you doubt about the buttons? - I have no doubt.
Mr. Knowlys. This took place by candlelight? - Yes.
Q. You had no opportunity of seeing him by daylight? - Not by daylight.
Q. You say you was more intent on the business than in looking at the prisoner's face? - That is a fact.
Q. Therefore you did not take much notice of his face at all? - I cannot say that I did. It was by the over persuasion of my neighbours that I entered into the prosecution; I had nothing to build upon but his being brought back to me.
Court. What do you mean by saying that you judge he was the same person by being brought back to you? - I should suppose by the parties taking of him, and bringing him back, that he was the man.
I am a butcher by business; I took the prisoner; I was going out of the shop with the tray of meat on my shoulder, hearing a cry of stop thief coming out of the shop, and seeing him come past, I tried to catch him if I could.
Q. Did you see any body else with the prisoner? - I see the mob coming after him.
Q. Who were nearest to him, you or the other people? - I took him at the bottom of the court, I followed him.
Q. Were you the first that got up to him? - Yes; when I got up to him I asked for a light to see if I could find any thing that he had thrown away, he said it was no use to look there, there was nothing there.
Q. Did you see him do any act like throwing away any thing? - No, but he said we should find the buttons up in the church yard.
Q. Had he ran through the church yard? - Yes, he had.
Q. How far was it from the church yard? - An hundred yards.
Q. Did you see him running through the church yard? - No, I see him coming down the court.
Q. Did you find the buttons there? - Yes.
Q. Were they silver buttons? - Yes, some on a card, and some wrapped up in a white paper.
Q. Did you go with the prisoner to Mr. King's? - Yes.
Q. Did Mr. King seem to know any thing about the man? - He did not seem to mind much himself, his neighbours over persuaded him to do it.
Q. Did Mr. King seem to know the buttons? - Yes.
Q. What was done with the buttons? were they delivered to Mr. King? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. Where was it, my lad, that you stopped him? - At the bottom of Church-street, in the Strand.
Q. You had not seen him at all in St. Martin's Church-yard? - No, not at all.
Q. Did you see another man that the mob were pursuing? - No, I did not.
Q. Perhaps you cannot recollect exactly what was said. Was it not said that a man had dropped them in St. Martin's Church-yard, and you should find
Court to Prosecutor. Have you brought the buttons here? - Yes. (Produced.)
Prisoner. I know nothing at all about the buttons; when I came to the bottom of the court another gentleman stopped me, and not that man, and this man came up immediately after and laid hold of me, and they said the buttons were in the mud; I said I knew nothing at all about them, they said, which way did I come? somebody said, across the church yard; I made answer and said, you must look into the church yard; they went back into the church yard and found them there.
The prisoner called four witnesses to his character, who gave him the character of a good boy, but said that his mother had unfortunately married, and his father-in-law had not used the boy so well as he ought, and had turned him out of doors.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
228. SARAH SLADE was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 31st of January , one pair of silk stockings, value 5s. one pair of worsted stockings, value 8s. three silver tea spoons, value 6s. three linen sheets, value 10s. three cotton gowns, value 17s. the goods of William Walker .
Q. Are you the wife of William Walker? - Yes.
Q. Did you lose the articles in this indictment? - Yes.
Q. Was the prisoner a servant of your's? - No, an entire stranger; she went through my premises and went up stairs to my room; Mary Nightly came down to me, and told me that a woman had come out of my chamber with a bundle, on that I followed her out to the door, and she said, that is the woman.
Q. Did you see the things on her? - She had then thrown the things down into the next door.
Q. Did you see that? - No, I did not; I brought her back into the house again, and I see her thrown down the tea spoons on the ground, I picked them up immediately and knew them to be my own property; with that I see her hand in her pocket and I took it out, and took these silk stockings out of her pocket; I then see her wrapping up something in a rag in her hand, and I insisted on seeing what it was, and there were five keys in it, pick lock keys which did not belong to me; I see her after that take another key up.
Q. Did you find any thing else? - Yes, the three sheets, the three gowns, and the worsted stockings I found in the next door entry.
Q. Was that the door that she past? - I took upon it that she went out of my house into that, in the situation I see her, she was coming out of that door.
Q. What have you done with the things? have you kept them ever since? - No, they have been in the constable's possession, sealed up at the justice's.
I am a lodger in Mrs. Walker's house.
Q. Did you see the prisoner in the house of Mrs. Walker? - Yes, I see
Q. Did you see the other things taken from her? - I see the worsted stockings taken out of her pocket, and I see the keys taken from her; I see the spoons after they were picked up, but I did not see them drop.
Q. Were the things delivered to the constable? - Yes, I delivered the gowns, worsted stockings, and sheets, with my own hands.
I am a parish officer. On the 3d of January, these things were delivered to me by this woman, three gowns, three sheets, and a pair of stockings; I have kept them till now.
Q. To Prosecutor. Were all these things in one room? - Yes, the sheets were on the bed in the morning, two of them, the spoons were in a drawer, they have on them, the gift of a friend.
Q. You know the property, I suppose? - Yes.
Prisoner. I have nothing to say, I have two small children, and I beg for mercy; I was rather in liquor.
GUILTY . (Aged 39.)
Recommended by the jury and prosecutor.
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I am a hostler .
Q. Did you lose a whip and reins at any time? - Yes, on the 19th of January, Monday; we came up to the Bull, in Holborn , about one o'clock in the day, I stopped to take my horses off, and I took my reins off and threw them into the chaise, I led the horses up the yard, and left the whip and reins in the chaise; I went down the yard to put the horses in the stable.
Q. What was the chaise in the street? - In the street. I was gone but a very little while, I said to my fellow servants, let us go and set the chaises to rights, draw them a little closer together; in the mean time, when I came down, I see the chaise door open, and I looked and see the whip and reins gone, and this gentleman came down and said he saw this lad take them out of the chaise, while I was talking about the loss.
I was looking out of my own window in Holborn, on Monday, the 19th, there were five chaises assembled together for sake of taking some boys down to a school, I see the prisoner at the bar come down the yard, I live only four or five doors off, and he went to the fifth chaise and took the reins out, and the whip; I see him pass the sadler's, which is near there, and it gave me a suspicion; a little while after that I said to my wife, that boy has stole this property, because if they had sent to have them mended, he certainly would have taken them to the sadler's; my wife said, we may as well have our dinner, it is one o'clock; she looks out of window and says, I dare say what you say is right,
Q. How soon after he had taken the property was it you see the prisoner? - To the best of my recollection it could not be more than three quarters of an hour. I am positive that is the lad.
Prisoner. When you see me take the property, why did not you stop me?
Court to Prosecutor. Did these reins belong to you as a hostler? - Yes.
Q. Do you find your own whip and reins? - Yes.
Q. What may be the value of them? - I could not replace them for half a guinea.
Prisoner. I am a working lad, I sell fruit about the streets, and I know nothing what they have alledged against me.
Publickly whipped .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
130. WILLIAM PETERS was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 27th of August , a promissory note, called a bank note, value 10l. a ditto, value 10l. a ditto, value 20l. a ditto, value 20l. a ditto, value 25l. and a ditto, value 25l. the property of John Smith .
I live in Mortimer-street, Cavendish-square.
Q. Have you any time lately lost any bank notes? - Yes, on the 27th of August, two ten pounds, two twenty pounds, one fifteen pounds, and two twenty-five pounds.
Q. Were they your property? - Yes.
Q. Were they unpaid? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. You have been telling my lord that you have lost a certain number of bank notes; I believe you don't know what the particular notes were, only what your daughter told you? - I had them at home.
Q. I know you were possessed of bank notes to the amount of a hundred pounds, but you could not tell what the particular notes were, only as your daughter informed you? - I could not tell particularly, because I could not read, my daughter read them to me.
Q. Do you know any thing of his losing any bank notes? - Yes, I lost a hundred pounds worth of bank notes.
Q. Do you know the number of them?
Q. You can read? - No, I cannot.
Q. You can read figures? - No.
Q. Where were these notes kept? - Up in my room.
Q. What reason have you to charge the prisoner with the notes? - Concerning the locket being dropt.
Q. Where is the locket? - I have it; I was going down Parliament-street, and there was a man before me, and I saw a small parcel lay, that was wrapped up in a brown paper, and I was going to stoop for it, and the prisoner stooped before me, and said, he had picked up a prize; I said, halves, to the prisoner; the prisoner asked me whether it was a usual thing to give half of what was found? I told him I had heard say it was; and then we crossed over together into the Park, and he met with an old gentleman, and he said he would go up to this old gentleman and ask him where the king's jeweller lived.
Q. Is that the old gentleman that you met with? - Yes, that is the old gentleman that we met with. Then we went to the chair in the Park and sat down; the other that was with this prisoner said he was a captain of a ship, and he said he had a friend in town, a gentleman of whom he could get the value that was in the note; the two hundred and fifty pounds that was in the bill with the locket.
Q. If I understand you, the prisoner was the man that picked up the locket? - No, not this prisoner, the prisoner that was tried some time back; Watson was his name.
Q. Then the prisoner at the bar was the man that you met afterwards in the Park? - Yes, and then we went on and came into Oxford-street, we turned down a street on our left hand, and went in and had a pint of beer, and some words, I don't know what passed, and afterwards they went down to my house in Mortimer-street; all the party, the prisoner that was tried before, and the prisoner at the bar, and myself, and they had the hundred pounds.
Q. You had only this one hundred pounds in bank notes, had you? - Only this one hundred pounds.
Q. Tell us what happened in your house? - They took them off from the table.
Q. How came they on the table? - They had agreed to have the hundred pounds till on the morrow.
Q. Who agreed? - The men that robbed me; they were to have the hundred pounds, they did not choose to part with the locket, but they left the locket till to-morrow, and I gave them the hundred pounds, and I was to have my hundred pounds again and one hundred and twenty-five pounds concerning that locket.
Q. Did you fetch down the notes yourself? - No, my daughter fetched them down, she looked out the notes.
Q. What was you to have the one hundred and twenty-five pounds for? - Concerning that locket, it mentioned in the note two hundred and twenty-five pounds, and I was to have one half, and my own hundred pounds back.
Q. For what purpose were they to leave the locket with you till the morning? - They were to bring my money back in the morning; they said, they did not choose to part with the locket, they would fetch it again in the morning.
Q. Did you, or did you not consent to their taking the money, and bringing it back again the next morning? - Yes, I consented to it till the morrow morning.
Q. What good did it answer taking your notes away, and to bring them back the next morning? - They did not choose to part with the locket, and they had not cash about them, and they left the locket with me.
Q. What more happened about this affair afterwards? - They went away, and I never see them no more, till they were taken and brought to me; one Lucas brought Watson to me, to Mortimer-street, to our house.
Q. How soon afterwards did Lucas bring the notes? - He never brought the notes; he took Watson in about a fortnight after.
Q. And when was Peters taken? - I believe it is three weeks back, I think it as much.
Q. Do you know what the locket is worth? - I have heard it is worth only five shillings and six-pence.
Q. Is that the receipt you received with it? - Yes.
Q. With a stamp and all in order.
Mr. Knowlys. This happened on the 27th of August? - Yes.
Q. And you never see the man till about three weeks ago? - I see him when he robbed me, but not since that time, till he was taken.
Q. And he shewed you the man? - I knew the man as soon as I see him.
Q. There was no other person in the room with him? - There was other people in the room.
Q. In what part of the house was he? - In the parlour.
Q. Who was in the room besides him? - I cannot tell, there were several people there.
Q. Did not Lucas point him out to you? - No; Lucas asked me if I knew any one in particular in the room, one more than another? I looked about, and I knew him immediately.
Court. Lucas asked you if you knew any one in particular? What did you say? - I turned me round and see the prisoner, and told him that was the man that had robbed me; Lucas did not point him out.
Mr. Knowlys. I ask you whether you have told any person, that you should not have known the man if somebody had not pointed him out to you? - I never told any person so.
Q. You are the daughter of the last witness, are you not? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember her coming home with two men? - I remember it, but I did not see the men.
Q. Do you remember your mother having in her possession any bank notes? - Yes, I counted them out to her.
Q. Do you remember for what sum they were? - I know how many notes there were, there were two ten pounds notes, two twenty pounds notes, a five
Q. These notes your mother had in her custody that day? - Yes.
Q. Were you sent on any errand by your mother? - No, she desired me to come up stairs with her, and count out a hundred pounds worth of notes.
Q. Did you count out the notes? - Yes.
Q. Did you give them to her in her bed-chamber, or did you fetch them down? - I gave them to her in her bedchamber.
Q. What happened then, did you stay in the parlour after she brought them down? - No, I did not go into the parlour.
Q. How long had your mother had these notes in the house? - I don't know, I cannot tell.
Q. Had your mother any more notes besides them? - I don't know, I only see one more.
Q. What is your father? - A plaisterer.
Q. So you never see the notes since? - No, not since I gave them my mother.
Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.
Q. Where do you live? - At the Horse Shoe, Castle-lane, in the Borough.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, very well; he lived at our house. I am the daughter of Mr. Gre, that keeps the house.
Q. Do you know the prosecutor, Mr. Smith? - I know the woman; she came to our house, and her husband came with her; cur tap-room is kitchen and taproom altogether; it was the Saturday after Peters was taken up, I don't know what they came for, but seeing Mrs. Smith look a decent woman I asked her back into the parlour along with me, and when we were in the parlour she told me the business she came was relative to this Mr. Peters, that she would make it up for a hundred pounds, for she had promised the thief-taking men fifty pounds, and said she never should have known him, only the thief taking men said he was the person; she thought he was a much younger man, quite a smart young man.
Q. How came she to go to your house for all this? - I don't know; I see her a decent looking woman, I asked her into the parlour; I never knew any thing of her before in my life.
Q. What is your reason for believing that he was there at Mayne's house? - I believe it, because I know he did go to Mavne's house, and Mrs. Smith said that she would not appear against him, for she only wanted the money, and could not tell whether he was the man or no, only what these thief-taking men told her.
Q. Where is your father at this time? - My father went away this morning at seven o'clock into the country, at his own business.
Court to Mrs. Smith. Do you know that woman there? - I see her once at her father's house.
Q. What did you go there for? - They sent for us there; this young woman's father sent to out house and desired we would to there I was at the bar with her to drink a glass of peppermint water, but never no more in particular; I was in the parlour for about a minute for
Q. Nor she did not call you in? - No.
Q. And you was not there above a minute? - I may be there a minute or two.
Q. It was nothing at all concerning this business? - No, they were mentioning in the tap room something concerning of it.
Q. Was there any thing in the parlour mentioned of this business? - Not that I know of a word that I can recollect.
Q. Who began the conversation in the tap room? - They were talking something of it in the tap room, this young woman's father had known this said Peters a great many years, he had been a lodger to him. I cannot recollect any thing particular that was said.
Q. Did not they say why they sent for you? - I really cannot in particular say the words what it was.
Q. How far do you live from them? - A great distance.
Q. If they took the trouble of sending for you so far, was it not very natural to ask what they wanted with you? - I really cannot think of any thing particular that was said.
Q. Did you offer to make it up if they gave a hundred pounds? - We never offered first or last to make it up.
Q. Did you ever say at this woman's father's house that you did not know the man? - I never said so.
Q. Did you say he was a smart young man? - I always said he was an elderly man.
Q. Did you say you had promised fifty pounds to the thief takers for taking up the men? - When they were taken the thief takers asked my husband what he would give them? my husband said he had nothing at all to give, what they took with them, they should have the one half.
Q. Did you say that you should not have known this man if the thief takers had not pointed him out? - I always said I should know him whenever I should see him.
Mr. Knowlys. You went to Mr. Lucas more than once, did not you? - No more than once.
Q. You went down several times to Mayne's? - We went down on Saturday night, and the Monday when the prisoner was taken; the prisoner was taken on Sunday.
Q. How long was it after that before you appeared before any justice? - In the same week I believe.
Q. How long was he kept at Mayne's before he went to a justice's? - Two days I think.
Q. Can you recollect what month it was in that you appeared against him? - No, I cannot.
Q. He was taken the 18th of January, was not he? - I don't know what month.
Q. Will you swear it was not a fortnight before you went before a magistrate? - Yes, I can swear that; it was not a fortnight, I believe it was in the course of a week.
Q. Did not you go to a Mr. Edwards's house after this man, to propose making it up? - Not that I know of.
Q. Did you ever propose making it up at Mr. Edwards's? - No, I don't know any such thing.
Q. Have you got Mayne or Lucas here? - I don't know whether they are here or no.
Q. Have you ever seen him in Hatton-street? - I may have seen him there.
Q. Did not you and your husband propose to this gentleman to make it up? - Not that I know of.
Q. Will you swear that you did not? - I know nothing at all of making up of any kind. I always said it was best to let it be so, rather than to bring ourselves further in trouble; it was better not to make it up, as we had better bear the loss rather than get into farther trouble.
Q. You are the solicitor for the prisoner? - I am.
Q. Did this lady or her husband hold any conversation with you on this business? - Yes.
Q. Tell us what and when it was? - I was sent for to attend the prisoner at Hatton-garden, at the police office, the latter end of January; I was there, I believe, an hour before the prisoner was bought up; I there see Smith, the husband, this woman, and Lucas, the officer; Lucas asked me whether the friends of Peters would advance any money to make it up, I told him that I did not know any thing at all about that, and I did not choose to interfere in the business; Mr. Smith and Mr. Lucas said to me, don't you think it better for the business to be postponed for a week to enable Peters to raise the money? and then they spoke to me concerning an estate which Peters considered himself as entitled to, and asked me whether I thought he was entitled to it? and whether he would give a bond as security for the money? I spoke to Peters about it, and he said, he would not; then they told me it was to be an hundred pounds, and Lucas and Mayne were to have fifty.
Q. Who told you so? - Lucas and Smith; we had a long conversation, and I am certain there had been two applications to the prisoner at the bar to make it up.
Q. Do you recollect that, now from conversation that you held with Smith and Lucas, or from what you recollect from others? - No, from Smith and Lucas they mentioned two names that they had applied to, George and Edwards.
Q. Was the wife present in hearing this conversation? - Yes, and by her consent it was postponed a week.
Mrs. Smith. I know nothing further than this, that as we had been at the loss, we had better give it up than get into further trouble.
I live next door to the Prince of Wales, in St. George's-fields, Kersaint-place.
Q. Are you acquainted with Peters, the man at the bar? - I have seen him several times.
Q. Did you hear of his having been taken up on this indictment? - On the Sunday morning he was taken on this charge, he came with Lucas and Mayne, the two officers, to my house; Lucas made this observation to me, that he thought I was somewhat interested for Mr. Peters, an account of an estate which Peters was entitled to, that I had advanced money on it, that they had just then taken him, and wished to know if I would either give a note or promise any sum of money; that Mrs. Smith had never seen him, and that they would undertake to turn him up before the magistrate, and they took him from my house to Mayne's, in Ratcliffe-highway, and told me that he should remain
Q. Did you ever see any body else about any business of this sort? - Lucas came to me after that, alone, I believe it might be six or seven days after; it was the day before he was going to have his examination, and he told me if I could procure him ten guineas he would endeavour to get him off for a soldier.
Q. How long have you known Peters; - Some years; I have a very honest good opinion of him.
Q. You have lent him money? - I have.
Q. To Sugden. This man has lodged in your house? - I remember him ever since I was a little girl; I never knew any harm of him in my life, and I knew him twenty years ago.
Q. Does he bear a good character? - He does.
GUILTY . (Aged 42.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice ASHURST.
131. MARY PALMER and MARTHA GIBBS were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 19th of January , twenty three yards of printed callico, value 24s. the goods of John Patrick , the elder, and John Patrick , the younger.
Q. Do you know John Patrick , the elder, and John Patrick, the younger? - Yes, they are linen drapers , in the Strand ; I am their servant, they lost some callico out of their shop, on Monday, the 19th of January, about seven o'clock in the evening, twenty three yards of printed callico. Martha Gibbs and Mary Palmer came into our shop, about seven o'clock in the evening, and asked to look at some flannels, the young man shewed them some flannels, and he had cause to step into an upper room in our house, to bring down some more, and in the mean time, Martha Gibbs had took a piece of print off our counter, they staid in the shop about ten minutes after they bought the flannel, and Mary Palmer was paying for it, and Martha Gibbs was going out of the shop, and the young man knowing that she had taken the print, he jumped over the counter, and took hold of her, at that time he took hold of her, she dropped the piece of goods.
Q. Were they standing the whole time together? - They were side by side.
Mr. Knowlys. Was not there a woman going out at the same time with Gibbs? - No, there was not, she was the only person that went out at that time.
Q. Was not there a woman that came in to ask the price of a shawl, who went out precisely the time with Gibbs? - There was a woman in the shop whom I was shewing shawls to, and she went out just before Martha Gibbs .
On Monday evening these two women came into the shop, and desired to look at some flannel; I was going to get another piece up stairs, another customer came into the shop, and could not open the door, I ran down to open the door, and I saw the prints move in the shop. When I came down, I see the fag end of the print hanging from under the cloak of the woman with the child, Martha Gibbs, and I knew it to be ours, by the print, and when she went out, I tapped her on the shoulder, and she immediately drop
Q. Had they asked to look at any linen? - No, it was flannel they asked to look at.
Q. Is that the same piece that you picked up in the shop? - Yes, it is.
Mr. Knowlys. The other woman remained in the shop till you came back; she never attempted to go away at all? - Not to my knowledge.
Prisoner Palmer. I leave it to my counsel.
Prisoner Gibbs. I leave it to my counsel.
The prisoner Gibbs called four witnesses, who gave her a good character, said she was a married woman, and her husband was a carpenter, and the prisoner Palmer called one witness, who gave her a good character.
Martha Gibbs, GUILTY . Fined 1s.
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER.
I am a cutler , I live in Russel-court, Covent-garden . On Thursday last I lost a satin wood knife case; it was taken off the counter in the shop, the prisoner came in and there was nobody in the shop, he came in and took up the knife case and immediately set off with it; I cried, stop thief! and he was stopped with it; I am positive he is the man.
I heard the cry of stop thief, I see the prisoner, went after him, and followed him down a court, he wanted to get away from me but I took him, and took him to Bow-street.
Prisoner. I was going down White Hart-yard, I heard the cry of stop thief, this man came up to me at the corner of White Hart-yard, and struck at me, and the prosecutor came up and said, that knife case is mine, I will swear to it.
The prisoner called one witness who gave him a good character.
GUILTY. (Aged 17.)
Judgement respited .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER.
133. STEPHEN SERMON and ANN BROMLEY were indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Clarke , about the hour of three in the morning, on the 22d of January , and burglariously stealing therein, a feather bed, value 5l. a feather bolster, value 6s. a mahogany dining table, value 18s. a mahogany pembroke table, value 18s. a bason stand, value 5s. and two blankets, value 20s. the goods of the said John Clarke.(The case opened by -.)
I live in Castle-street, Long-acre, in the parish of St. Martin's, and likewise in the parish of St. Giles's; I have a house in each.
Q. Which house do you live in? - That in St. Martin's.
Q. Who slept in the house at the time the robbery was committed? - Nobody; my family had gone to live in the house opposite, my family had left it about four or five months before this happened; they were both my houses, my family are in and out of this house every day, but we do not sleep there.
Q. You left off sleeping in the house before this happened four or five months? - I left off sleeping and eating in the house, but I used it for my trade.
Q. Did you carry on business in this here house? - Yes, I do, to this very day.
Q. Had you at that time any intention of any of your family to return and sleep in this house? - Now and then, because we have generally plenty of beds in this house.
Q. Had you constantly beds in that house there? - Generally. My business is such that there may, or there may not be any there, when I bought any I took and put them up there; I am a cabinet maker and upholsterer, I have one house at the corner of Cross-lane, and another in St Giles's parish, directly facing, and then I have another house just by; I have all these three houses, and I live the corner of Cross-lane, and the robbery was committed in the little house facing where I live, in St. Giles's parish.
Q. Was any of your family left behind in this house of St. Giles's? - For some time, but not within two or three months of the robbery.
Q. You were uncertain of your intention of ever returning with your family? - I had no intention of returning with my family to sleep there; I believe I should put two or three lads to sleep there when it was warm weather.
Q. When was it you lost your property in this place? - On the 22d of January, Friday morning; the watchman knocked at my kitchen windows, because he knew the house was mine, at five o'clock in the morning, for the servant, and she came running up stairs and called us; the watchman called out that the street door was open, and I was sick in bed, and could not come down, but my sons did.
Q. How soon were you able to go? - Not for some time.
Q. Did you ever see any part of your property again? - Yes. When I was informed by my sons that my house was broke open by an iron crow.
Q. Did you ever see any of your things again? - Yes, I see them about three weeks afterwards, they were in a house in Earl-street, close by the Seven Dials, No. 9.
Q. What was there? - Two old blankets and some more of the wretched things in the room, which I did not take; they were in the house of a man of the name of Grace, that keeps a broker's shop, or old iron shop, I cannot tell what you may call it; the tables are here, and the tick of the bed.
Q. Who proves the things being in the house? - I can, and my porter that is with me.
JOHN LANE sworn.
I am an officer of St. Giles's parish. On Monday the 31st of January, Mr. Richardson came to me, and informed me that there had been a burglary committed, and I advised him to get a search warrant; I went with him to Marlborough-street, and then went to Grace's house, and the landlord took me and John Clarke into Sermon's room; I found Mr. Clarke's bed and Bromley on it with her clothes on; the other officers in searching about under her head, found a quantity of articles tied up in a blue apron.
Q. Where was the bed? - On the bedstead in the room.
Q. Where was Sermon at that time? - He was not in the room.
Q. Where were the tables? - One standing in the same room, in a corner, covered over with a cloth, and the other was behind it.
Q. Did you find any bolster? - Yes, on the bed.
Q. What sort of tables were these two? - One was a pembroke table, and the other was a dining table; there were some blankets but Mr. Clarke would not swear to them.
Q. Did you find any bason stand? - No, I did not.
Q. What did you do with those articles you found? - Had them removed to my house.
Q. Did you take up Sermon? - I did not, he was apprehended a week or a fortnight afterward.
Q. What became of the goods you took, are they in court? - The tables are, and ticks of the feather bed and bolster too.
Prisoner Sermon. Whether he is certain these are the things that were in my room.
Witness. I will be on my oath that these are the things that were in the room.
I am an officer belonging to St. Giles's. I went along with Mr. Lane, with the search warrant, searching the room we found a feather bed.
Q. Whose room did you search? - Stephen Sermon 's, as we were told; there I saw a dining table, a pembroke table, and a bolster, they were carried to Mr. Lane's house; if I remember right it was about the 31st of January.
I live at No. 9, Great Earl-street; I keep a broker's shop; the prisoner at the bar, Stephen Sermon, rented a lodging of me; I don't know the other prisoner, only being his wife for what I know.
Q. When did Sermon take this lodging? - Some time in May last, to the best of my remembrance.
Q. Do you know any thing about this indictment relating to Mr. Clarke's property? - No, I was out the same day getting home some goods from a sale, I came home and my wife informed me that they had been and searched the house.
Q. Now tell us whereabouts in your house the room was which Sermon rented? - It was the two pair of stairs back room.
Q. Do you know of any goods being brought into that room by Sermon? - No, I knew nothing at all about it; when I came home my wife told me my
Prisoner. Did you see this property taken out of my room? - Yes, I see Mr. Lane take things out of your room, and Mr. Clarke said they were his property.
I am one of the party that apprehended Stephen Sermon ; I took him to the public house, the sign of the Fox, in Ray-street, Clerkenwell, on Sunday the 8th of this month; there were two other people with me, one was Wilson, who had some particular business to do yesterday at Westminster, and he could not attend when the bill was found.
Q. To Grace. How soon after the officer had taken these things out of Sermon's room did you see Sermon? - I did not see him till he was taken up and before the magistrate at Marlborough-street, and I was desired to appear at Marlborough-street by the constable, and I did.
Prosecutor. I know the ticken by the mark at the corner, it is bound with red tape, I bought it at a sale for the sake of the feathers; it is a goose feather bed.
Q. How long had you bought it before this happened? - I fancy about two months before this happened; I know the table, I was brought up a cabinet maker all my life, I bought the wood on the wharf, cut the logs, and my men made them; they have been made two or three months.
Q. What reason have you for knowing that these articles, the bed and the tables were in your house, in St. Giles's, on the 22d of January? - I can bring my porter to witness that they were there that very evening.
I am porter to Mr. Clarke.
Q. Have you seen the tables? - Yes, both of them.
Q. Do you recollect the morning when the house of your master was broke open? can you say any of these articles were there? - Yes, I see them there myself about six o'clock, when I shut up the shop.
Q. Were the feather bed and bolster there? - Yes, both.
Q. They were stuffed? - Yes.
Q. When they were found, were they stuffed? - Yes, and the feathers were taken out for the conveniency of bringing them here.
Q. What time of the morning did you miss them? - About the hour of six or seven.
Q. Was there a bason stand? - Yes, it was broke.
Prisoner Sermon. If they are the same property that was taken out of my room, how they came there was, a young fellow came to me last Sunday was three weeks, and asked me to let him leave some things, for he expected to be seized upon; I gave him leave to leave them, and on Monday he brought these things, if they are the same that belonged to Mr. Clarke; I made all the enquiry about the person who left them with me, and could not find him.
Prisoner Bromley. I know nothing of it, I was out at my mother's at the time he brought them into the room.
Prisoner Sermon. I wish you would call my landlord to my character.
Grace. He came to lodge with me in May last, he was a lamplighter; he paid me very honest; he told me also, he was
Of stealing but not in the dwelling house.
134. STEPHEN SERMON and ANN BROMLEY were again indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Smith , about the hour of nine in the night on the 15th of December , and burglariously stealing therein, a tin cannister, value 100. one pound and four ounces weight of black tea, value 4s. and four pounds of starch, value 2s. the goods of the said John Smith .
I live at No. 1, Short's-gardens, in the parish of St. Giles's in the fields ; I have a house there, I keep a chandlers shop . On the 15th of December last, I cannot positively say the day, between the hours of seven and nine, I cannot justly say to half an hour, it was after seven and before nine, the window of my shop was listed up, the sash; I was backwards in the shed, splitting some wood, and my wife was in the parlour going into the shop, I was called in by my wife; the window of the shop was listed up, and the cannister and a paper of starch taken through; they stood in the window.
Q. How lately had you seen them in the window? - A few minutes before.
Q. Did you see at that time any body running away, or any thing? - No, I did not.
Q. Is there any body here that see what past? - No, there is nobody here that see what past.
Q. Had you seen whether the sash was down before? - Yes, it was down before, we fasten it down with a nail.
Q. Was it down when you went backwards to this shed? - Yes. Lane and Cole, the constables, found the cannister.
I searched the room of the prisoner, I found this cannister, I thought it had rather a suspicious appearance, it was standing on a chest.
Prosecutor. I know it is my cannister by the T. R. that I put on it when I bought it before I put my tea in it.
Q. What time of the night was this taken out? - Between the hours of seven and nine, being in such confusion I did not take particular notice of the time, for I did not expect I should find the property again.
Prisoner Sermon. When they came and searched my room as I was informed, they pulled and hauled, and if the cannister was in my room I know nothing of it. Lane keeps a chandler's shop himself.
Q. To Prosecutor. How long had you been out of the shop before you heard the alarm? - Not long, for I brought the wood backwards and forwards as I chopped it up.
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron THOMPSON.
William Chace , about the hour of seven in the night, on the 11th of January , and burglariously stealing therein, four silk handkerchiefs, value 16s. a pair of nankeen breeches, value 2s. a flannel waistcoat, value 3d. five muslin aprons, value 5s. a cotton gown, value 3s. a black silk petticoat, value 1s. a silver tea spoon, value 1s. four cotton waistcoats, value 2s. and a linen table cloth, value 1s. the goods of the said Daniel Chace .
I keep a house. On the 11th of January, between the hours of seven and nine, in the evening, I was robbed; I came home about a quarter past eight, and found my house broke open and my drawers; my house is full of lodgers, the upper part, but not downwards.
Q. What room did you lock up when you went out? - My back parlour and the shop.
Q. That is the part of the house you live in? - Yes.
Q. What time did you go out? - Between two and three o'clock, but I had a brother that called at my house at seven and it was all safe then.
Q. Then you did not lock the outer door because the lodgers were in the house? - I did not. When I came home I found the door broke open and the lock bent, bursted off, the hold fast of the door bursted off in the passage.
Q. You go through your shop to the parlour? - No, through a passage to the parlour. It was my parlour door that was broke. When I got in I found my drawers had been rifled, some were left half shut and some open.
Q. Had you locked them when you went out? - No, I had not.
Q. What did you miss out of your drawers? - Four silk handkerchiefs, a gown, a pair of breeches, a shirt, five muslin aprons; all the things in the indictment.
Q. When did you see any of your things again? - Mr. Richardson that lived in the same street where we do, had a search warrant to search this Stephen Sermon 's apartment, and I went up with him, and found this under flannel waistcoat in his apartment, laying along with a bundle of more dirty things, and I knew it.
Q. Of all the articles in the indictment you identify but the under waistcoat? - No.
Q. You are sure all the things in the indictment were in the room when you went out? - Yes, every thing was safe when we went out, and they were missing when we came home.
Prisoner. I would wish for you to see the waistcoat; the gentleman would willingly have sworn to the waistcoat that I have got on.
Of stealing, but not of breaking and entering.
Transported for seven years .
Ann Bromley, not GUILTY .
I am a linen draper .
Q. Did you at any time lose any shawls from your shop? - Yes, five.
Q. What may be the value of them? - Twelve shillings. The 17th of February, the prisoner at the bar along with another woman, came into my shop and wanted to look at some cloth; I shewed two or three pieces, and sold them five yards and a half; after that they wanted to look at some shawls; I shewed them a great many different patterns, I had no pattern that would please them, I missed one pattern of shawls, and by the behaviour of the prisoner at the bar I supposed that she had them; I then called my young man out of the back shop, and sent him for a constable; the constable came, and I gave him the charge of this woman, the prisoner at the bar, and told him that I had a suspicion that she had some of my property, and the constable searched her and found the shawls on her; the constable has got them, his name is Moring.
- MORING sworn.
I took these three shawls out of the prisoner's pocket, in Mr. Mather's shop, and my brother officer has got two that he found himself.
Prosecutor. I know them to be mine by the shop mark.
JOHN GASS sworn.
I have got two shawls.
Q. Where had you them from? - Out of the prisoner's pocket in Mr. Mather's shop.
Prosecutor. They are my property, they have the shop mark.
Prisoner. My friends were with the prosecutor yesterday, and he promised faithfully he would not appear against me; therefore I have none of my friends ready. It is but five weeks since I buried my husband, and he has left me with two children. A young woman was out of place, and asked me to go with her to buy a shawl, and we drank a little two much, and when I drink a little spirits I have a very bad head, and how those shawls came into my pocket I really don't know.
GUILTY . (Aged 20.)
Imprisoned one month in Newgate , and fined 1s.
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice ASHURST.
I keep a house in Cartwright-square, close to Tower-hill . It is about a fortnight to-morrow, I went out and double locked the chamber door, the outer door is generally open; when I came home my child says, mother, you have been robbed; and I went up stairs to my room, and I found the prisoner in the room.
Q. Did you find any thing on her? - No.
Q. Why do you charge her with stealing the blankets? was she an acquaintance of your's? - No, I never see her before to my knowledge.
Q. Did you stop her? - I did stop her; I sent for an officer to take her.
Q. How did you get at your blanket? - From the pawnbroker's.
Q. If you found nothing on her when you stopped her, how was it you had her committed? - I missed the blanket off the bed, and she followed me down stairs, and said, never mind the blanket, and wanted to send for a quartern of gin.
Q. Did you miss any thing else? - A candlestick that has never been found.
Q. What happened after she was taken up? were any duplicates found on her? - The officer found a great many duplicates on her, but nothing belonging to me; she had made away with the duplicate that she had pawned the blanket.
Q. Have you ever seen your blanket, since? - Yes.
Q. What is the pawnbroker's name? - Evans.
Q. How did you happen to find your blanket? - I had a suspicion that she had carried it to the pawnbroker's, I went to several before I found it out, and at last I found it.
Prisoner. I know no more of the blanket than a child unborn; she came to me this morning, and wanted half a guinea of me in the gaol.
Court to Prosecutor. Did you go to this prisoner in the gaol? - Yes, I did; I went to see her along with my lodger, Mrs. Connelly.
Q. Was she with you the whole of the time you were with the prisoner? - Yes.
Q. Now I ask you whether you offered to settle this business if she would give you a trifle of money? - O no, I did not.
Q. Then you say, on your oath, that you made her, nor she made you any offer about money? - Never.
Q. Did you offer to forgive her this if the gave you half a guinea? - No, nothing of that kind passed.
I am a lodger of Mrs. Russell.
Q. Do you know what was lost out of that room? - I do not.
Q. Were you there when the prisoner was found in the room? - I was not.
Q. Have you seen the blanket since? - I have seen it at the pawnbroker's. This here woman came into my room, it is a fortnight ago to-morrow, she came and stopped in my room, and I went out for a penny worth of wood.
Q. Was Mrs. Russell at home or out? - She was out. I left her in my room, and just went over the way for a penny worth of wool. I have known the prisoner ever since I was born, and I never knew any harm of her.
Q. Are you speaking of the time that she was taken by Mrs. Russell in the house, or a different time? - I do not know.
Q. You knew that the prisoner was taken at Mrs. Russell's house? - No, not till I went up to the office.
Q. What passed when Mrs. Russell went to the gaol to her? - She said, was not she ashamed of herself to give her so much trouble? that was all I heard mentioned.
- COURTNEY sworn.
I am servant to Mr. Evans, the pawnbroker, in East Smithfield; I know the prisoner, she pawned a blanket with my master, Friday the 6th of February.
Q. Did you give her a duplicate? - Yes.
Q. Did you ever see her before? - Yes, I have seen her pass and repass.
Q. Have you got the blanket? - Yes.
Q. To Mrs. Russell. How can you swear to your blanket? - I have no particular mark, but I have the fellow to it at home, there is no other mark than the child's piddle on it; I bought it last summer.
Q. When you went out did you leave your lodger in your house? - Yes.
Q. I find this woman by the account of your lodger was the same day in her apartment? - Yes, the same day; when I went out in the morning I left her at home.
Q. Had she a key to let herself in? - Yes, of the street door.
Q. What door was it that you found open? - My chamber door.
Prisoner. I know no more of the property than a child unborn; nor she never see me there, nor I never opened my lips to her from the time I was born to the time I was taken.
Court to Connelly. How does she get her livelihood? - She has got a husband at sea, but she does any handy work that a woman can do, she quilts petticoats, and she has been nursing sick people.
Prisoner. I have got a young child six months old, and a husband and two brothers at sea.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Robert Waithman .
WILLIAM REEVE sworn.
I live next door to Mr. Waithman, I am in the collar way.
Q. Did you see the prisoner take the property? - I will tell you as briefly as I can. It was the 16th of January, between five and six in the evening, near six, it was after dark; I see the prisoner and two in company with him; I see them standing about the shop window, indeed one of my servants told me they were about; I went out and watched them, and I see the prisoner open Mr. Waithman's shop door, put his hand in and draw a piece of linen from the window; he had it about half way from the window, when I caught hold of his hand, and had a scuffle with him, and dragged him into the shop, and there was a patrol coming by at the time, and he was given charge of him.
Q. Describe how this linen was, in a bundle or loose, or how? - It was in the window, as linen drapers generally have for a shew.
Q. Was the whole dragged out? - No, it was not, it was a large piece about ten yards, and only part of it was dragged out.
Q. Can you say from the situation in which you found him, and from the situation in which it was at the window, that every part was removed from the window? - No, I do not believe the whole was removed, the greatest part was.
- CARROTT sworn.
Q. Can you say whether the whole was removed from the window, or only dragged? - I cannot say, I was at the other end of the shop.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
139. JAMES GOOD and JOHN VANDERSALL were indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Chadwick and Joseph Thornicraft , about the hour of six in the night, of the 1st of January, and burglariously stealing therein, twenty-seven fruit knives, with silver blades and pearl handle, value 6l. three fruit forks with pearl handles and silver prongs, value 15s. three silver funnels, value 2l. a base metal wax winder, plated with silver, value 10s. three silver handles for knives, value 1l. a pair of base metal snuffers, plated with silver, value 9s. a fish slice, value 2l. two base metal scewers, plated with silver, value 2l. the goods of John Chadwick and Joseph Thornicraft.
Q. You both live in the house? - Yes.
Q. The house is a joint concern? - Yes.
Q. Was your house broke open at any time? - Yes, on the 1st of January, in the evening.
Q. Were you in the shop? - I was not.
Q. Where is your house situated? - In Cornhill , the corner of Birchin-lane, in the parish of St. Michael's. In the evening after candles was alight; we have a wire which is a safeguard to the window. This I understand from a witness, who is my man, who first discovered that wire taken down, a pane of glass forced, and out of the windows were stole several articles.
Q. When did you first discover that? - From the information of my servant.
Q. That servant is here, I suppose? - He is.
Q. Did you observe that the wire was gone? - I did not before I was informed of it, I observed the articles stole out of the window; I did not take any notice of this for some time, till about a week after I see an advertisment in the paper, that such articles were discovered, and if we would apply to the public office, Worship-street, we should hear of them; I went, and the second time I applied, some of the property was produced at the office.
I am servant to Mr. Thornicraft, a shopman; about the time I was putting up the shutters in Birchin-lane the glass was broke, to the best of my knowledge in Cornhill.
Q. Was it dark or not at that time? - It was dark.
Q. Had you candles alight? - Yes. When I came to put the shutters up, and take the wire down, in Cornhill, the first wire was up and the other two were fell down; the one was found under the window, and the other laid over the pavement; there are three wires, and one holds the two others up.
Q. How are they fixed up? - There are short pins at the bottom of the wires, that go into the holes where the shutters go.
Q. Had you seen them up in the course of the day? - Yes, to the best of my knowledge.
Q. Am I to collect from you that any thing had been done to these wires? - No, no more thatn they had been listed out of their places.
Q. What past after this? - A gentleman called out, and told me the wire was down, I went out and see they were down, and as I went to take the wire down next the glover's, I saw the pane of glass broke, and all the things gone.
Q. How much was it broke? - Big enough for a man's arm to go in. Then I saw the tray that held the knives was drawn close to the pane of glass; which before stood two panes off, or very near, and the things in the tray were gone.
Q. When had you seen that tray last? - I had seen the tray in the course of the day.
Q. Can you tell what was in that tray? - I know it was full of these silver bladed knives, but I cannot say how many.
Q. Were they fruit knives, with silver blades and pearl handles? - Yes.
Q. Was there any thing else that you recollect in the tray? - Not in that tray.
Q. Do you know of any thing else that was missing, besides these knives in the tray? - No, I cannot say that I do.
Q. Was you the first person that discovered the window broke? - Yes.
Q. Did you give notice of it? - Yes, I gave notice to my master directly.
Q. Have you ever seen any of your masters property since? - No, I have not.
Q. Can you swear to any of it? - No, I cannot.
Q. Are you shopman now? - Yes.
Q. Are you still in the service? - Yes.
Q. Did you see any people at all about the window that you had any suspicion of? - No, I did not.
I am constable of the police office, Shoreditch; I apprehended the prisoners, in company with Harper and Blackiter, on Friday, the 7th of January; we searched them, and nothing of this robbery was found on them.
Q. Did you apprehend them together? - Yes; they went before the magistrate, and was committed, on Monday, the 12th; I received these goods of Esther and Rebecca Seekey, a wax taper light, a pair of snuffers, two silver handles for knives, &c. I received all of Rebecca Seekey but one knife.
I live in Woolpack-alley, Houndsditch.
Q. Look at the things produced by Armstrong, and tell me whether you gave them to Armstrong? - Yes.
Q. How came you to give them to Armstrong? - New Year's Day at night, these two young men came to my house; I think they are the two young men.
Q. Did they come together? - Yes, there were two together.
Q. What time was it? - Between six and seven o'clock at night; they brought fifteen fruit knives, twelve silver bladed, with pearl handles, and three were gilt blades, a silver funnel and a plated funnel, a silver fish slice, two silver skewers, three wine ladles, four plated skewers.
Q. Had you any fruit forks? - None.
Q. Three silver handles for knives, had you them? - Yes.
Q. A base metal wax winder, plated with silver? - There it is.
Q. A pair of base metal snuffers, plated with silver, is that there? - Yes, it is.
Q. Now all the things that you have been speaking to, you gave to the officer? - Yes, I brought them up to the justice's voluntarily.
Q. Did you buy them, or lend money on them? - I bought them, I gave four guineas for them.
Q. You purchased of these boys, and never see them before? - Never see them before.
Q. How came you to deliver them to the officer? Was you taken up by the officer? - No, I was not taken up; Mr. Armstrong came to tell me that there was a piece of work about this property; he said, the justice wanted me, and I told him I would come up.
Q. Do you mean to swear to the prisoners, to your belief, or to your positive knowledge? - I have spoke truth as far as I can to my belief.
Q. Are you the daughter of Rebecca Seekey? - Yes.
Q. How old are you? - Fifteen.
Q. See if there is a knife that you know there? - Yes, this is it, I gave it to Armstrong.
Q. Is it one with a pearl handle? - Yes, it is.
Q. Do you know the day? - I cannot rightly recollect the day.
Q. Look at them, are those the young men? - Yes.
Q. Had you seen them before? - Only once or twice before at a dance.
Q. Had you spoke to them before? - No, not till they came to our house.
Q. Do you believe them to be the same? - I believe they are the same.
Q. Can you swear positively they are the same? - Yes.
Q. There is a knife that you delivered to Armstrong, did you get that knife from them? - Yes.
Q. Was that knife brought to you the same time the things were sold to your mother? - Yes, I came in just then to see my mother.
Q. What did your mother give for them, do you remember? - Four guineas.
Q. How came you to produce that knife? How came you by that knife? - Because I had it given to me, and I kept it for myself; the young man, James Good, gave it me at the time he sold these things to my mother, he gave it me when I went to light him down the stairs.
Q. Which was found first, this knife or the other things? - The other things.
Q. What led to the discovery of your having this knife? - After I was taken I told of having a knife given me.
Armstrong. The morning that these two young men were first at the office, I observed two girls sitting near them, and I thought it was proper to take charge of them too, this girl was one of the two.
Q. Was the mother taken up? - No, she was not, she was sent for down to the magistrate's.
Q. You don't live with your mother? - No.
RACHEL DONAUGHTY sworn.
I was at a settled company, a dance, in Harrow-alley, Petticoat-lane, sometime before Christmas, or the night after, I don't know which; a young man in sailor's dress came in and asked me if I would accept of a fruit knife, and I said yes. (A knife produced by Armstrong.) This is the knife, I gave it to Mrs. Martin, and she carried it to the office.
Q. Was you taken up? - I was taken up five times before the justice.
Q. For what purpose did you give Mrs. Martin that knife? - I gave the knife to her to save for me, and while I was out of the way she delivered it up to the justice, and when I was in the way I went and owned the knife.
Q. Who did you receive it of? - I cannot tell whom I received it of; I received it of a young man, I never saw him before in my life.
Q. You cannot ascertain whom you received it of? - I cannot.
Q. Was it at this dance? - Yes, it was.
I am an officer belonging to Worship-street. I come to prove what I heard the prisoners say to each other, they were in the lock-up-houses, one in each; there are two lock-up-houses.
Q. When was it? - Saturday the 3d of January; I heard Good say to Van
Prosecutor. There is only one article I can identify, I believe the whole to be my property, missing at the same time, but only one article has got the private mark.
Q. Can you say whether that was in the window at the time? - Yes, I believe it was.
Q. Had you pot sold such things with this mark on it? - Not lately.
Q. What may be the value of it? - Ten shillings.
Q. What may be the general value of all the things that are there that you believe to be your's? What may be the value of the things now produced? - About two guineas; but the woman has sold as many articles as fetched her five pounds fifteen shillings and sixpence.
Prisoner Good. When I was taken Mr. Armstrong asked me if I had got any money? I said, a guinea; and he said if I would give him two guineas he would let me go, and because I would not give two guineas he took me to prison and said he would try to get forty pounds by me.
Prisoner Vanderfall. I bought a watch at this woman's house. and Mr. Armstrong came into a public house where I was having a pint of beer, and when he searched me he found the duplicates of a watch and ring, and I told him where they were in pawn, and he could find no owner to the watch, and he took me to the office; I don't know nothing of this affair what he took me for now.
Court to Armstrong. Did you ask them for two guineas? - No, never in my life to them nor any other man.
John Vanderfall, GUILTY. (Aged 17.)
Of stealing to the value of 39s. but not of the burglary .
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
140. ROBINSON ANSELMO GILLCHRIST was indicted for forging, on the 12th of September , a certain paper writing, purporting to be an order for payment of money, dated the 11th of September 1794, with the name of Thomas Exton thereto subscribed, purporting to be directed to Lord George Kinnard , William Moreland , and Thomas Hammersley , by the name and description of Messrs. Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley, for the payment of ten pounds to Mr. Brooke, or bearer, with intention to defraud Lord Kinnard , William Moreland , and Thomas Hammersley .
A second COUNT for uttering the same knowing it to be forged, with the like intention.
Thomas Exton .
The indictment opened by Mr. Knapp, and the case by Mr. Const.
Q. You are a breeches maker , and live at Charing Cross? - Yes.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I have seen him twice before.
Q. Do you know him now? - Yes.
Q. Do you remember seeing him any time in September last? - Yes, I believe it to be the 12th of September, it was between seven and eight o'clock in the evening, previous to that he had ordered some goods of me.
Q. Where did you see him on the 12th of September? - At my shop.
Q. What goods had he ordered? - Three pair of breeches; he called on Friday night, which was the 12th of September, to know if those goods he had ordered were finished, I told him that part of them were finished, and what was not then finished would be finished in the morning; he then asked me what the amount of them were? what they came to; the bill was made out, they came to six pounds four shillings.
Q. Did you give him a bill? - I did; he then presented me with an order of ten pounds value; on my looking at it he told me he had it of the same man he had some previous to that.
Q. On whose house was it upon? - On Messrs. Ransom's, Moreland, and Hamersley's.
Q. Did you take this? - He told me to take the amount out of that bill, and to give him the balance, and I did so.
Q. Did you give it him? - I did. I kept it till the morning, and in the morning I gave it to the clerk to take it for payment.
Q. Was the prisoner in custody then? - He was.
Q. Have you got the draft? - Mr. Heslop has it.
Q. You are sure the prisoner is the same person that tendered you the draft? - Yes, I am sure of it.
Mr. Gurney. You say the prisoner told you that he had that note of the person that he had had a former note? - He did.
GEORGE TURNER sworn.
Q. When did you receive any note of your master? - On Saturday morning, September the 13th, half after nine o'clock, I took it to the banker's to get cash, I see Mr. Heslop there.
Q. Did he pay it? - No, he did not.
Q. What did you do? - I was detained because it was a forged draft.
Q. Should you know the draft again when you see it? - Yes, my name is on the back of it.
- HESLOP sworn.
Q. I believe you are clerk to Messrs. Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley? - Yes, I am.
William Moreland , and Thomas Hammersley .
Q. What was their firm? - Messrs. Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley.
Q. Do you know the witness, George Turner? - Yes, I do.
Q. Do you remember his coming to you on the 13th of September last? - I do.
Q. Did he present any draft to you? - He did.
Q. Have you the draft here? - I have.
Q. Did you pay the draft? - No, I did not.
Q. Did Mr. Exton keep cash at your house? - He did.
Q. Do you know Mr. Exton's hand writing? - I do.
Q. To Turner. (The draft shewn him.) Is that the draft you produced to Heslop? - It is.
Q. Is that the same draft you received from your master, Mr. Lewis? - It is the very same.
Q. To Lewis. Is that the same draft you had of the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, I believe it to be the same.
Mr. Gurney to Heslop. On a former draft being presented at your house, purporting to be signed by Mr. Exton, did not Mr. Moreland send for Mr. Gillchrist? - He did.
Q. On his so sending for him I believe Mr. Gillchrist came? - He did.
Q. I believe on Mr. Moreland's being satisfied, Mr. Gillchrist went away? - I don't know what conversation passed.
September 11, 1794."
Mr. Const. You say that Mr. Moreland at some time preceding, sent for Mr. Gillchrist, that was not relating to this bill, nor at this time? - It was some time before.
Q. It was on other business? - It was.
I am an officer of Bow-street.
Q. Did you take Mr. Gillchrist into custody? - Yes, on Saturday, the 13th of September 1794.
Q. Did you search him? - I did; I found nothing on him, but in his portable desk I found this draft for twenty-one pounds, in one corner, in a little red pocket book.
(The draft read.)
Mr. Gurney. Where was Mr. Gillchrist's lodging? - No.- , Vine-office-court, Fleet-street.
Q. To Lewis. I believe you happen to know that these had been his lodgings for some time past? - Yes, I believe it was.
Q. That was his lodging at the time he presented to you the other draft, signed by Mr. Exton? - Yes, it was.
The jury that then tried me, acquitted me, and I will beg leave to state shortly, as before, the manner in which I became possessed of these bills. As I was lately an officer in his majesty's navy, I was obliged to be often at Portsmouth, I became there acquainted with one Macdonald at the Blue Posts, where I lodged, he did not lodge there but in some private apartments in the town. Almost as soon as our acquaintance commenced he told me he was going to America; among other intercourses, we went together to play at billiards, where at other places as well as at Portsmouth, we played for small sums; I won a very large sum of him at Portsmouth, and he applied to me for fifty pounds, which he lost; and then applied to me for another fifty pounds, and as I had won the greatest part of his money that he had lost since the time of our acquaintance, I lent to him; and I lent him a third fifty pounds. As he was going out of the country I thought it would be proper to have some security, and he said he would give me some bills. In about a week or a fortnight after I went to Northampton, soon after my arrival there he made a remittance to me of three checks, one of five pounds, one of ten pounds, and one of fifteen pounds, all of them drawn by Mr. Thomas Exton on Messrs. Hammersley; I soon after returned to town, and on Sunday the 31st of August, I paid one five pound check to Mr. Lewis's servant, and the other two I sent by a servant to Messrs. Ransom's, the bankers, and all of them were actually paid at the banker's, and no questions have ever arisen on them to my knowledge; from this treatment of Macdonald, I had reason to believe I was treating with a person of honour; on my return to town I met with him at the New Exchange coffee house, when I mentioned to him my desire of having the remainder of the debt being paid, and he gave me three other checks, purporting to be drawn as before, which I immediately sent for payment by a servant, but on their being presented Mr. Moreland stopped them, and desired to see me, and I went immediately to Mr. Moreland, he then informed me that my checks were forged; I then said, I would endeavour to find Macdonald; I informed Mr. Moreland by whom they were paid to me. I did not see Macdonald that night, but I see him some time the next morning at the coffee house, when I stated the circumstance to him, and he expressed a considerable passion, and with apparent resentment set off to go to Mr. Moreland's, and returned in great haste in about half an hour, telling me he had explained the matter to Mr. Moreland's satisfaction, I then thought that the alarm that Mr. Moreland had made on my mind was an unjust suspicion, and Mr. Macdonald then took from his pocket a letter, which he informed me he had received from Mr. Exton, by that day's post, containing two checks signed by Mr. Exton; and they were signed different than those he gave me. I looked at the two last checks, and from the circumstance of the two first checks being paid, I relied on Macdonald's veracity; of these two last checks. one was for twenty-one pounds, payable to Mr. Ryland, or bearer, and which has never been negociated; the other was for ten pounds, payable to Mr. Brooke, or bearer, and which I paid to Mr. Lewis,
I have communicated to you all the circumstances of my first meeting with Macdonald to the present time, and I must here request your particular attention to the times when the foregoing transactions took place. The first checks were paid the latter end of August 1794. On Sunday, the 31st of August, I paid one to a servant of Mr. Lewis's, who objected to take it; my answer was to him, that if it was not good I had two others of the same; in regard to the other three checks which I sent by a servant to Mr. Moreland, the banker's, and who desired to see me, I went to Mr. Moreland's without restraint; Was this the act of a guilty mind? had I a guilty conscience, should not I rather have sled? Mr. Moreland was so well convinced of my innocence that he suffered me to go at large; from Messrs. Ransom and Co. I never sled, but immediately sought after Macdonald, and never changed my lodgings to the time of my apprehension; taking all these circumstances together, is it at all surprising, that any suspicion that I had entertained against Mr. Macdonald should vanish? that I did not question Mr. Macdonald, is certain; that I am not guilty myself, is unquestionable; for if I had known they had been forged, I would not have paid two checks to Mr. Lewis, and after I had done so I would not have gone home to my lodgings, solely to give the prosecutor an opportunity of apprehending me; would any one of you have acted so? surely not. The great difficulty by witnesses to prove the negative, is a hard matter; add to this, I am not twenty years of age, and Mr. Macdonald is a great deal older, and no wonder that he easily prevailed on my credulity.
Gentlemen, under all these circumstances, I trust you will not reverse the verdict of the former jury; that you will not inser that to which the facts do not lead you, and consign me to an ignominious punishment, that is to an awful death; it is a maxim of justice, that it is better that many guilty persons should escape the punishment their crimes deserve, than one innocent person should perish.
Q. On a bill being presented to your house, I believe you sent for Mr. Gillchrist? - It was on three bills being presented; they were three bills, purporting to be drawn by Mr. Exton; they were referred by the clerk to me.
Q. Did he state to you when he came, of whom he had received these bills? - He stated he had received them from a certain Mr. Macdonald.
Q. Then he made the same representation to you, as he has done to day in his defence? - I told him I believed the bills were forged.
Q. From the conversation that took place, you was so far convinced as to let him depart? - The readiness in which he came, the peculiarity of his person, and many other things, there are certain things that impress one with an idea at the moment; on that general impression he went away, to come again on Monday morning, the 8th.
Mr. Const. This bill was uttered by this gentleman on the 12th of September, and it was on the 5th of September that this conversation took place, and that was in consequence of three bills coming to your house? - They came in a suspicious manner to our house, by the waiter of a coffee house.
Q. He was to return to you on the 8th, did he return on the 8th? - No, he did not.
Q. Did he ever return to you? - Never.
Mr. Gurney. Mr. Macdonald never came to you? - I know nothing of such a person.
Court. Who is Mr. Exton? - He is a clergyman residing in Bristol, and has a living in Somersetshire.
GUILTY. (Aged 19.)
Judgment respited ,
On an objection in the indictment, it stating that the bill was purported to be directed to Lord George Kinnard , William Moreland and Thomas Hammersley , by the name and description of Messrs. Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley.
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice BULLER.
141. ANN GIBBONS was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 29th of January , a man's cloth great coat, value 12s. a mahogany tea board, value 2s. a woollen blanket, value 2s. a woollen bed rug, value 1s. a linen sheet, value 1s. a feather bolster, value 1s. and a feather pillow, value 1s. the goods of John Pressy .
Q. Was you robbed of any articles in the indictment at any time? - There are two articles which I can prove, which is a great coat and a tea board; there are many other articles, but them are the two that I can swear to; the prisoner formerly lodged at our house.
Q. When did you miss these things? - About the 20th of January.
Q. Was the prisoner then a lodger? - No. Some time before the quitted my apartment. The way that I found my great coat to be of her taking, was by a duplicate which was found in her possession, and the tea board was found in the room where she slept.
Q. Do you know any thing more than to be able to prove the property? - Nothing more on my part.
Q. Did you miss all the articles in the indictment? - Yes.
Mr. Knapp. You say this woman lodged with you? - Yes, she had.
Q. Have you not heard so? - I have not heard so particularly, it may be so.
Q. How long before this time had she left your lodgings? - I cannot say particularly.
Q. Was it a year or two? - O, dear, no.
Q. How long do you think, was it a month or two? - I dare say it may be more than a month.
Q. Was it more than two months? - I suppose it is full that.
Q. Do you think it was three months? - I suppose it to be three months, as high as I can imagine.
Q. How many lodgers do you keep in your house? - A good many, there might be a dozen in the house.
Q. All these things you found at the pawnbroker's? - The tea board was in her own possession, and the coat at the pawnbroker's.
Q. How long had she left you before you missed them? - Three months, as I said before.
Q. You say you missed them the 20th, how little while before that had she left your lodgings? - I suppose nearly three months.
Q. And you had several other lodgers in the house? - Yes, a dozen at least.
Q. What sort of people are they? - Working people, respectable people, one is a taylor, and some other businesses.
Q. You don't know exactly the time you missed them? - I cannot say exactly.
Q. Did she use to come backward and forward to your house after she went away? - Not that I see.
Court. You have told me about the tea board in her possession, where was that in her possession, did you see it yourself in her possession? - Yes, in her lodgings, at Mr. Hayworth's, at the Swan, in New-street-square.
Q. How soon was it after you missed these things, that you saw this tea board? How soon after the 20th of January? - I cannot say that I made any particular memorandum; I did not miss it at all till she was taken up, and her lodgings searched.
Q. Did you ever see her at these lodgings? - I never see her at these lodgings till the constable went with me.
Q. Did you take her up in these lodgings where the tea board was? - Yes, I did.
Sometime ago the prisoner came and took a lodging at our house, and was there two or three days, and went away, being detected stealing a candlestick of my lodger, and she took away part of my furniture then.
Q. How long was it before you missed the things, that she lodged with you? - After she left the place I naturally went into the room, to see if there was any thing missing, and I missed a great many things.
Q. Did you find any of these things on her? - I found a rug on her bed, a sheet and a tea board.
Q. When did you find this rug on her bed? - I believe it was the 20th of last month, I think it was.
Q. Did you find any thing else? - Nothing else belonging to me, but a ticket.
Q. Do you mean a duplicate? - Yes.
Q. I see there is a woollen blanket, a feather pillow and feather bolster; do you know any thing about that? - They were lost a great while ago, my servant can tell
Mr. Knapp. You say you had oceasion to look into her room that you had let, then it was you missed these things? - No, I missed these things since she left my apartment.
Q. How soon afterwards? - Lately, last month.
Q. You missed things before? - I missed a blanket and bolster before, but I did not think it worth while to seek after them.
Q. All these things were let by you with the lodgings? - About a few nights before she was taken with the things in her apartment.
Q. Will you have the goodness to attend me? - Did you let your lodging to any body after the prisoner went from it? - Yes, I did to be sure, to a single man, the same man is there now.
Q. Whether these things that you complain of being taken at the time you let the room to the man, were in the room or not you cannot tell? - They were in an hour before.
Q. You remember the prisoner going away? - Yes, about two months ago, or more.
Q. How long has the single gentleman been your lodger? - I cannot recollect, he came a few days before the prisoner was taken up.
Q. How long were they unlet to any body? - I cannot tell, there might be somebody have lain in them for a night.
Q. Recollect how many lodgers you had in the course of the time the woman went away, down to the time the young man took the lodging? - Upon my oath I cannot recollect, I don't know that any body slept there but the young man, except my children.
Q. How often are you paid for your lodgings when you let them? - By the week, when I can get it.
Q. Upon your oath did you receive any hire for your lodging, between the time that woman left it, and the young man took it? - Except I might let it for a night if a person wanted a bed, there might be a gentleman now and then come to sleep one evening or so.
Q. Your's is a public house, is it not? You take in any body who say they want a bed? - No, not any body.
Q. If any body comes and sups at your house, and has a pot or two of beer, and wants a bed, you let him have a bed? - Not without they are recommended.
Q. If they are recommended don't you let it for one night? - Very seldom for one night.
Q. Will you swear to the jury, that during the time the young woman went away, down to the time the young man took the lodgings, you might have let the lodgings at different times to different persons? - No, not them lodgings, there was nobody that slept in them but the children, that I can remember.
Q. I wish to know whether these things were lost during the time that she had your lodging, or was it afterwards? - It was afterwards.
Q. Had you an opportunity of seeing your things afterwards? - I found them in her apartment; I missed them when the young man was going to bed, which was the 19th of last month.
Q. Not missing them till then, will you swear the exact time when they were lost? - They were stole about five o'clock, while I was at tea; the young man went to bed sooner than ordinary, and I missed the things.
Q. I know you missed them and found them, but I want to ask you this question, which I think is a very plain one; if you only missed them the 19th, the young woman was gone then three months, how can you say when they were gone? - I
Court. Do you mean to say that on this 20th of January, all the articles were there? - I see the sheet, the rug, the tea board, and the ticket of my husband's coat.
I am an officer of the city of London. On the 5th of the present month Mr. Pressy came, in order to obtain a search warrant; I went with him and searched the lodgings of the prisoner, at the house of Mr. Hayworth's the 5th of February; I found a pocket book containing of upwards of seventy duplicates; in searching over the duplicates Mr. Hayworth owned some of the goods to be his, and Mr. Pressy said that a great coat was his, and likewife a blanket.
Q. Then there were two duplicates of Mr. Pressy's property? - Yes, and likewise on her bed was a sheet which Mr. Pressy said was his, and likewife the rug on the bed, and the tea board, and another duplicate we found afterwards, of a bolster and pillow together.
Q. Have you kept the sheet, rug, and tea board ever since? - Yes.
Q. Produce them.
Mr. Knapp. I believe this woman is a married woman, is not she? - I have heard such.
Q. This was the lodging of herself and her husband? - I don't know nothing about her taking the lodging, I don't know any thing more of the lodging, than I found her at the room.
Prosecutrix. This sheet I know, it is my own mending, the rug I brought from I slington; the tea board I broke two pieces out of it myself.
Mr. Knapp. You tell us just now that one of the articles you mended? - The sheet.
Q. How long ago? - A great while ago.
Q. How many years? - I cannot say as to years.
Q. Might it not be two or three years? - I don't think it was so long as that.
Q. Do you mean to swear to every old thing that you have in your house? - No, I do not.
Q. Do you mean to swear to this old thing, mended and patched, whether you mended it six months ago, twelve months ago you cannot tell? - The value of the sheet is not worth swearing to.
Q. But you mean to swear to it from having darned it? - It is mended.
Q. Did you do it yourself? - I did.
Q. Do you mean to swear to every piece of work you do? This is an old thing? - Old things must not be thrown away.
Q. What do you say to the rug? - I cannot swear to the rug.
Q. How long had you had the rug? - I cannot justly tell how long I had it.
Q. Whar is that rug worth? - What you please.
Q. I don't want a rug at present; but what do you charge for it? - A penny.
Q. What do you say to this tea board? It is a very common thing to be sure at every public house; I dare say it never happened to you to see a tea board broke so. I dare say you never had the misfortune to break a tea board in this way? - That is my tea board, I can swear to it.
Q. Did you ever see a tea board notched in this way? - I have seen that many a time, and many a comfortable dish of tea I have had off from it; if I had not lost more things than these, I would not have been here.
Q. How many notches do you mean to swear to here? - Two.
Q. So that there is no mark or name, only these notches on it? - And is not that enough?
I am a linen draper. Mr. Pressy came to me, on the 5th of February, to inform me that he had been robbed, and Mr. Davenport and I went to the lodgings.
Q. Whose lodgings were they? - I found the prisoner at the bar in the room, in bed with two children.
Q. Did you find any property there belonging to Mr. Pressy? - This rug and sheet, and tea board, and the pocket book with the duplicates.
Mr. Knapp. This woman is a married woman, is not she? - I have heard as much.
Q. This lodging is the lodging of her and her husband? - I don't know that; the husband was before the alderman, he said it was his wife, but he had not lived with her for four years.
I am servant to a pawnbroker; I produce a great coat; I am not certain of whom I took it in.
Q. To Davenport. Shew him the ticket of the great coat.
Turner. This is the duplicate of our house given with the great coat.
Mr. Knapp. I see this duplicate is dated the 16th of January 1795. I believe your are servant to Mr. Rochsord? - Yes.
Q. He has a good deal of business? - Yes, he has.
Q. You don't mean to swear to this prisoner? - By no means.
Q. This great coat was pawned the 16th of January, the day the duplicate bears date, which is previous to the 20th of course? - It is.
I am servant to Mr. Fleming; I took in a blanket of the prisoner at the bar, on the 5th of August, and delivered it up to the person that claimed it before the Lord Mayor, Mrs. Pressy.
Q. You art sure to the person of the prisoner? - Yes, I am sure.
Mr. Knapp. You are sure it was the 5th of August 1794? - I am certain it was.
Court to Davenport. Have you got the duplicate? - No.
Q. To Mrs. Pressy. Have you the blanket here? - Yes.
Mr. Knapp. Do you recollect whether the prisoner at the bar was in your house the 5th of August? - I cannot recollect.
Q. To Mr. Pressy. Do you recollect whether the prisoner was in your lodging in August last? - I believe she was; I will not be positive.
Court to Mrs. Pressy. Was this blanket one that was let to her with her lodgings? - It was.
Q. Was the rug? - No.
Q. The sheet? - No.
Prisoner. I went on the last Tuesday in November, to take Mr. Pressy's lodgings, and I left it on the 2d of December last; I was but one week in it, and I never went to the house after that but once, and that was when I went to demand my things that were there, and to pay them my week's rent. As to that blanket I pledged it the 5th of last August for to pay earnest for lodging; and the bolster and pillow were in pledge a twelve month, and I fetched them out, and being short of money, I pledged them again the latter end of September, or beginning of October, I cannot tell which. There is never one of the articles that Mrs. Pressy ever saw with her eyes till she see them after I was taken.
Court. But she must make that out.
Prisoner. As to the rug, I have had it four years; the sheet I don't know how many years; and the duplicates I found in Clare-market; and I never went to see after any of the goods, my husband said they were nothing to us.
GUILTY . (Aged 41.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
The case opened by Mr. Knowlys.
Q. I believe you are a corn factor ? - Yes.
Q. Had you any warehouse to deposit corn in at Mill Bank , on the 22d of February? - Yes, I have had that place for some years; I believe all I can say is that the property that was there is mine, and I never gave any orders to these people; I always send my orders to Mr. Dunning, my granary man.
Q. Do you know who Dunning employs? - I do not, he sometimes employs a hundred people, I leave all that to Mr. Dunning.
Q. I believe you are the person intrusted by Mr. Morley with his corn at Mill Bank? - Yes.
Q. You have employed him on Mr. Morley's premises there? - Yes.
Q. Were there any grain on the 22d of January, in Mr. Morley's premises at Mill Bank? - Yes.
Q. What day of the week was it? - I do not recollect.
Q. Did you miss any corn from there? - I sent William Pearce and William Everett to load Mr. Gant's waggons on the 22d of January.
Q. What was the quantity to deliver? - Upwards of five hundred quatero; housed to send for twenty or thiety quarters a day.
Q. What quantity was to be delivered on that day? - They were to deliver thirty-four quarters.
Q. Was that the only order for that day delivered to them? - It was, there was no other delivered to them that day.
Q. Was Chandler any person employed by you at any time? - No, I never see Chandler before I see him the night he was taken.
Q. Do you know whether any corn was missing from that place? - When the bulk of corn went away, the quantity that was in that warehouse was cleared away, there appeared to be a deficiency of fifty-two quarters and four bushels; it was cleared away in two or three days. The quantity was six hundred and one quarters when landed, and when it came to go away it was fifty-two quarters short of that.
Q. After Pearce had delivered this quantity that was ordered for Mr. Gant, was it his business to stay in the warehouse, or quit? - I gave him orders to
Q. But no more than the thirty-four quarters were sent for by Gant? - No, not that day.
Mr. Gurney. You superintend this warehouse and employed a number of hands to deliver out the corn? - I do.
Q. In what manner do you give them the order? - I give them a written order and tell them who are the persons that are coming for the corn, and the persons that come for the corn bring a written order.
Q. On this occasion, there was a bulk called Mr. Gant's bulk? - Yes.
Q. You had desired Pearce to deliver out a quantity to Mr. Gant? - He did.
Q. Mr. Gant sent different carts and waggons for that quantity? - He did.
Q. Was you there when it was delivered? - No.
Q. Then you don't know what carts or what waggons he sent, or what persons he sent? - I do not.
Q. Do you mean to say that corn has not been given out without a written order? - Never without I give a verbal order.
Q. Now in the case of Gant; Mr. Gant was a person that bought a great quantity of you; in such a case it was possible to have corn delivered without having a written order? - He gave an original order at once.
Q. Do you mean to say that for every small quantity there was a written order given? - It always was, except it was a person that had corn frequently, that was known perfectly well.
Q. Then in a case like that of Mr. Gant's it has happened? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. That delivered to Mr. Gant, was it delivered by written order or not? - It was delivered by written order.
Q. Therefore there could be no verbal order in the case of Mr. Gant? - There could not.
Court. The quantity that was delivered to Gant that day was delivered by a written order? - It was.
Q. The question I put to you is this, If such a man who had corn often, if he had applied to Pearce without your knowledge, whether Pearce would have been justified in letting him have it? - Mr. Gant would have sent down a note by him at night.
Q. The question is, if in that day Mr. Gant having received all according to the written order, had thought fit to have sent Pearce an order, would he have been justified to have sent it? - If Mr. Grant had sent him he would have delivered it, because I had shewn him the original note; he would not if the original note was complied with.
Q. Suppose a customer had applied for corn, and Pearce had sent it, what would that customer have done in the course of the day? - He would have given Pearce an order, he would not have delivered it without an order.
Q. Did you ever know him deliver any without a written order? - No, not without he had an order of us.
Q. This order not being complied with would Pearce have delivered it on a verbal order? - If he had delivered it on a verbal order he would have given me an account at night.
I am a carter, drive a cart.
Q. Do you know Pearce? - Yes.
Q. Where did you go with the cart? - To Millbank, Westminster, just by the ship, the gateway.
Q. What did you go with the cart for? - For five quarters of corn. The man at the left hand side, standing at the bar(Chandler) he came to hire the cart, he went with me and came back with me.
Q. Who did you get the corn of? - That man, Pearce helped up the sacks, and Chandler wheeled it to me; it was the ground floor, about even with the tail of the cart.
Q. Do you know what corn it was? - Oats.
Q. How many sacks were there? - Fifteen.
Q. When they were put into the cart, you say, I think, one lifted them up and the other wheeled them to the tail of the cart? - Yes. There were three people concerned in it, but the other is not taken.
Q. When you got them to the cart where did you go, and who went with you? - Chandler went with me to the Three Horse Shoes, Grosvenor square.
Q. Do you know who kept the Three Horse Shoes? - A Mr. Dunn.
Q. Who was present when they were delivered? - Chandler.
Q. Who was present to receive them? - Mr. Dunn. Chandler backed them to the tail of the cart to me, and I carried them up to Dunn's premises.
Q. Were they all delivered to Dunn's premises? - Yes, them fifteen sacks.
Q. Are you sure that Pearce and Chandler were the two that delivered the corn to you? - Yes, I am.
Mr. Gurney. What goal do you come out of? - I come out of no goal; I hope I never shall.
Q. Who first told you to charge Pearce with this? - There was nobody told me; I never had any orders to challenge any body.
Q. If you don't convict somebody else you may be charged yourself; you carried the oats, you took these oats, therefore if you do not charge somebody else you may be put in prison yourself? - I cannot charge any body else.
Q. Who was with you? - Nobody but these two, and the other man that is away.
Mr. Knowlys. It is supposed that you have been charged with this offence, has any body charged you with dishonesty in the transaction? - Never nobody.
Q. You attended there as carman to do your master's business; you received the money, and accounted with your master for it? - I did not take the money, my master did.
Q. Therefore you derived no profit of it? - Not a halfpenny.
Q. I believe you keep the Three Horse Shoes, James-street, Grosvenor-square? - Yes.
Q. Did you at any time purchase any oats of any body? - Yes.
Q. Is your's a public house? - Yes; I keep a public house, and am a stable-keeper.
Q. Was any corn brought to you in the month of January? - On the 17th of January there was a man came down the yard, whose name was Woolley, who was originally a stable-keeper, he calls up, do you want any corn?
Q. Should you recollect the carman who brought it? - I know him perfectly well, James Partington.
Q. Do you know the person who came with him with the corn? - Yes, Mr. Chandler.
Q. How much was there of it? - First of all I bought of Mr. Chandler on the 17th of January -
Q. We must not go to that. What did you buy on the 22d? - I did, not buy this on the 22d of Mr. Chandler, I bought it of a Mr. Catling.
Q. Do you know who Mr. Catling is? - No, I never see him but that time.
Q. When was it you see Catling about that corn? - To the best of my recollection, I cannot say whether it was a day or two days before it was delivered.
Q. When it was delivered Chandler came with it on the 22d? - Yes.
Q. Who did you pay for it? - Mr. Chandler.
Q. Do you mean Chandler at the bar? - Yes; this is the receipt that Mr. Chandler gave me for it.(The receipt read by the Clerk of the Court.)
"Received 22d of January 1795, of Mr. John Dunn, the sum of six pounds nine shillings and sixpence, for seven quarters and a half of oats, at seventeen shillings a quarter, for the use of William Catling . William Chandler . Witness, L. W. Higginson."
Q. Did you see Mr. Chandler write that? - Yes, it his own hand writing at the bottom.
Mr. Gurney. You never see Pearce in this transaction? - No, I never see him at all.
Prisoner Chandler. I wish to know whether Mr. Dunn did not come to me the Saturday after I sold the corn, and he said, he believed it was stole? I said, I had nothing to do with it, I only acted as a servant.
Mr. Knowlys to Dunning. Where is this warehouse: at Millbank situated? - Next door to the sign of the Ship, on Millbank-row; you go down the gateway to it.
Mr. Gurney. Is there any other in partnership with your master? - No, only his son.
Q. To Mr. Morley. Have you any partner? - My son has nothing to do with that article; he had no interest whatever in that corn.
Prisoner Pearce. I leave it to my consel.
Prisoner Chandler. Catling came to me to know if I would help him with some corn; I went with him to load this corn, and he desired I would wait and receive the money, because he was going another way; he said, he bought the corn at Boston, in Lincolnshire; he said I should not want for victuals and drink, if I would help him, and he would give me for my trouble besides, for helping him with the corn, half a crown; I gave a direction to Mr. Dunn where I lived, and after I had received the money for Catling, I went and paid him at the sign of the Crown, in Holborn; Mr. Dunn, on Saturday, came to me, as I had given the directions where I lived, and after I had received the money for the corn, and he said, he believed the corn was stolen; I told Mr. Dunn I had no business with it, as I was only hired, I knew nothing of it, and that was on Saturday, and on the Thursday after, in the same place, I was taken up on suspicion of being concerned in it.
The prisoner also called another witness who gave him a good character.
The prisoner Pearce called three witnesses who gave him a good character.
Transported for seven years .
William Chandler, Not. GUILTY .
Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I am a silk mercer . On the 29th of January I was informed by a person, that a woman had taken a piece of flannel from my door, immediately I ran out of the house, and ran after the woman.
Q. Who was the woman you ran after? - The prisoner at the bar, I ran after her, and took her, and took the flannel from under her long scarlet cloak myself, and had her committed, from the office in Great Marlborough-street.
Q. Whose flannel was it? - My own flannel, there is my own shop mark on it, it is twenty-eight yards.
Q. You are sure you had not sold that piece with the marks on? - I am sure I had not.
Q. How long before had you seen it? - I had seen it a few days before.
Q. Produce it. What is the mark on the flannel? - S. C.
I live with Mr. Bennett. On the 29th of January, Thursday or Friday, I put this flannel out at the door, as we usually do, in the morning about ten or eleven o'clock.
Q. Did you see the woman take it? - No.
Q. What time did you miss it at the door? - About four or five o'clock.
Q. Did you see it on the woman? - Yes.
Q. Where is your master's house? - No. 100, Oxford-street; I was informed that it was gone, and I ran out after the woman, and see the prisoner at the bar turn round with this piece of flannel under her cloak; at that time my master came up and took it from her.
Q. Has your master kept it ever since? - Yes.
Q. Is that your master's property? - Yes.
Prisoner. I did not take it, it was the two boys that took it, and I was taking it from them, and they ran into the shop, and told them that I was taking of it.
GUILTY . (Aged 22.)
Recommended by the jury.
Imprisoned twelve months in the House of Correction , and fined 1s.
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
Jeremiah Connolly , in a lodging room .
Q. Did you let a lodging to the prisoner at any time? - Yes, on Christmas Eve she came to lodge with me.
Q. What was she to pay you for your lodgings? - Half a crown a week.
Q. After she had taken the lodging did you miss any property? - Yes, she left them on Wednesday, and on Thursday I missed the goods, I went and found the door open.
Q. How long did she stay there? - About a month.
Q. When did you first miss your things? - She went away last Wednesday was three weeks.
Q. When she went away did she give up the key? - No, she did not.
Q. After that time, when you found she had left the room, did you miss the articles in the indictment? - Yes, I did, the very day after she left the room.
Q. Have you ever seen any of the things since? - Yes, she gave the duplicate up when I took her to the justice; I found her in Rathbone-place, in a public house, on the Saturday after, she left me on the Wednesday, three days before.
Q. Had you at this time told her it would be better for her to give you the things? - Yes, I told her so, and she said she could not.
Q. Did the pawnbroker produce the goods? - Yes.
I produce a flat iron.
Q. When was this pawned? - The 26th of January, I don't know it was the prisoner pawned it.
Prosecutrix. That is my iron, I know it by the mark, there is no letter on it, but I know it is my iron.
Q. How long had you had it? - Half a year.
Arthur Keating was called on his recognizance.
Prisoner. These things that were pledged, were not pledged by me, though not without my knowledge; there was a week's rent due, and I told her I was only going away for a couple of days, and meant to go back, and take the things back again. On the Saturday following she took me in Rathbone-place; she knocked me about the street, telling every body I had robbed her; when she took me to Bow-street, she said, if I would pay her a fortnight's rent, she would do nothing with me. On the Thursday following Mr. Connolly said, if I would release the things and pay the rent for the time I was absent, he would not prosecute me; I could not do it, I sent to my sister to do it, and she was willing to release the things, but not to pay the rent.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
JOHN WARREN was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Hodge , about the hour of ten in the night, of the 5th of January , and burglariously stealing therein, a feather bed, value 12s. a feather bolster, value 1s. a cotton coverlid, value 1s. a pair of linen sheets, value 2s. and a blanket, value 1s. the goods of the said John Hodge .
Q. Was your house broke open? - It is not my house, it is my house that I have to let out.
Q. Do you ever sleep there? - No.
Q. Had you any servants to sleep there? - No.
Q. You have two houses, and inhabit both of them? - Yes.
Q. What do you live in both? - I do not live in that.
Q. I asked you if you inhabited both of them, and you said, yes? - One of them I do, and the other I let.
Q. That which you inhabit, was that broke open? - No.
Q. It is laid here that they were guilty of a burglary in your dwelling house? - It was not in the house I live in.
Q. Did you ever lose any of your goods? - No, they were moved.
Q. Who lives in the house? - There are several people in the house, but nobody inhabited that room, there were several lodgings let in different apartments.
Q. Which room was it that you lost this furniture from? - The one pair of stairs room.
Q. What was it you lost out of this room? - A bed and bolster, a pair of sheets, blanket, and coverlid.
Q. What reason have you to charge the prisoner of stealing these things? - I was not at home when this affair happened.
I am the wife of the last witness.
Q. What do you know about the prisoner having taken any of the furniture? - I was informed that a bed of mine was being moved; it is not the house that we live in, but let out to lodgers; the prisoner ran away, and in the passage I found my bed and bed clothes.
Q. Did you find him in the act of running away? - I did, I found nothing on him.
Q. What did you lose besides the bed? - I did not lose any thing, they all lay in the passage, because he was standing by the door, and he gave me a push and he ran away.
Q. Were you standing outside of the door? - I ran out from my house, I was told by a woman of it, which woman I have not been able to get as a witness.
Q. You did not see any of the things moved? - I did not see any of them moved.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice ASHURST.
146. MARY SPARKS was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 6th of January , three linen aprons, value 3s. a linen table cloth, value 3s. a muslin neckcloth, value 1s. a muslin cap, value 1s. a linen gown, value 3s. and linen handkerchief, value 4d. the goods of James Campbell .
Q. Did you lose any linen the 6th of last month? - Yes, these things were all
Q. Do you know where these things were on the 6th of January? - They were put in a clothes basket to be washed, by my wife.
Q. Is your wife here? - No.
Q. How do you know she put the articles in the clothes basket? - I know because she always, on Tuesday morning put the clothes in the clothes basket.
Q. Did you see her do it? - I did not.
Q. Why did not she come here? Is she not well? - She is well, but has a large family. I see the things again at the police office, Westminster, after the prisoner was taken up at her lodgings. The prisoner was a servant to me, she lived in my house.
Q. Because you speak of her being taken up at her lodging? - She took a lodging after she left me.
Q. When did she leave you? - On the 6th of January last.
Q. Was she with you in the forenoon? - She was, till between six and eight at night.
Q. She left your house that night? - She did, about twenty minutes before eight, I went out and I left her in the house, going backward to the wash-house with some dishes to wash up; I went out to go on my duty, as I belong to the patrol of St. Bride's parish; I went out to go to the watch-house, then my wife called her in.
Q. You must not tell me what your wife said, I thought you knew better. - I know no further. My wife sent for me home about two or three minutes, before the clock struck eight, and I came home.
Q. When you came home was the prisoner there? - No; mor I did not see the prisoner from that night till the Saturday following, this was Tuesday, and on the Saturday following I see her and apprehended her.
Q. Where was she when you did see here? - In the Broad way, very near the police office; I see her, and I stepped up to her, and said, Mary, what made you run away, and take away so much of my property? she made me no answer; I took her home to see if she would confess.
Q. Did you give her any information that you would forgive her if she would confess? - I am very sensible that I did not; I took her home, she would not speak to me, and she went into the back parlour to my wife.
Q. Did you hear what she told your wife? - No.
Q. She said nothing to you? - No, but to my wife; then I took her from my apartment to the police office, and in taking her I see my half handkerchief tied about her head, with my name on it.
Q. How long before the Tuesday that she went away? - I suppose two days, I will not say exactly, I suppose it might be about Monday that I put it off my neck, and throwed it among the dirty linen.
Q. Did you see any thing else? - The constable was sent with me to the lodging, and found the rest of the things in her apartment.
Q. Where were her lodgings? - At the top of Peter-street.
Q. How do you know they were her lodgings? - The woman that she lodged with was with her, and she says, what is the matter you have taken up this girl?
Q. Did the prisoner hear her tell you that she had come to lodge with her? - Certainly she did.
Q. It was in her hearing that you said the woman should come and search her lodgings? - It was.
Q. Is that woman here? - No, she is not.
Q. Who went to search the lodging? - An officer, he is not here, I went with him and the landlady.
Q. What part of the house did she lodge in? - The one pair of stairs front room. The officer searched the room, and found the different articles that are mentioned.
Q. You was present? - Yes; two aprons were found in the room, and the cap was sent out to be washed, and the gown cut into a bed gown, and the handkerchief and the table cloth; the prisoner was not by when the room was searched, she was confined in Tothillfields, directly after we went to Tothillfields, we went back to search the house.
Q. What became of the things that were found? - Here they are.
Q. To whom were they delivered? - They were in the hands of the officer, and as he is bad a bed, and cannot be moved, he begged of me to take them; I am able to swear that they are my things that we found, and that they are my property.
Q. Did the constable go before the grand jury? - Yes, he is bound over, that was the session before this, she was sick the last session, and could not be tried.(The things produced.)
Q. You had no expectations that she would go away at that time? - No. This is the apron, I can swear that this is my wife's property; I know the check, I know her to wear them a long time.
Q. Can you speak to them as well as your wife? - Yes, I can. Here is a gown I bought five years ago; she cut it up into a bed gown, but I can speak to its being the same gown, though it is cut up; I know it by the colour; I can swear to it that it is my wife's; there is no mark on it except the print. This is the double bordered cap, I know it is one of her caps, it is rather the worse for wear. This is an apron that I can swear to, it has got a slit in it, there is no mark on it. This is the half handkerchief with my own name on it; this is what the constable took from her head at the office, I see him.
Q. Has it the name at full length? - No, only two letters, S. C. I can safely swear to its being my property. Here is the table cloth; the constable found it between the bed and bed tick, this large table cloth; I see my wife go out to buy it about a fortnight before it was taken, it has no mark, but I know it, I put it on the large table in the shop.
Q. What do you keep a eating house? - Yes.
Q. How lately had you seen any of these things except the neck handkerchief? - I had seen the table cloth on the table that very afternoon that she absconded.
Prisoner. Mistress took me into the room and promised me if I would tell every thing she would forgive me.
Court to Prosecutor. You saw the prisoner in the Broadway, in company with the woman that she lodged with; was it after that you took the prisoner to your own house? - I took the woman and prisoner both at once to my house, and the woman told then where she lodged.
Not GUILTY .
147. THOMAS KIDMAN was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 16th of February , four linen shirts, value 1l. 10s. five muslin neck handkerchiefs, value 1l. two silk waistcoats, value 1l. 10s. five satin waistcoats, value 5l. two cotton waistcoats, value 3s. a pair of buckskin breeches, value 3s. a pair of black worsted breeches, value 1l. four pair of worsted stockings, value 8s. three pair of silk and cotton stockings, value 10s. two pair of shoes, value 10s. fifteen tin moulds, value 15s. two pair of steel pincers, value 4s. four wooden lathing pins, value 4s. a flannel bag, value 4s. a silk muff, value 5s. a shaving box and brush, value 2s. three linen napkins, value 9s. three printed books, value 3s. and a pair of saddle bags, value 10s. the goods of John Ruddle .
Q. You heard the indictment read, were all those things taken there, four linen shirts, &c. &c.? - Yes.
Q. What was the value of all the things? - They are all valued.
Q. Can not you form a guess what the value was? - About twenty-five pounds.
Q. Now tell us where these things were? - We gave a man a couple of pence to get a coach to put these things at the Saracen's Head, Snow-hill, and told the coachman to drive to the pump in Piccadilly; when he came to the pump he came down, and I got out of the coach to pay him, I gave him half a crown and told him to give me a shilling change; he said he had no change to give me; and I went about five or six yards off to a light to give him some change, for fear of giving him a guinea, and he took the saddle bags and things, while I went to the light to get the money for him; I left the coach door open and the coachman against it, and when I came back to give him the eighteen-pence he told me they had stole my saddle bags and gone off with them; I told the coachman to look after them; the coachman said, go and look after them yourself, I don't know where he is gone; I said I would insist on the coachman to go to the justice, and some gentlemen took my part, and said, that the coachman should drive me to the justice.
Q. That is the prisoner? - Yes. The justice was not there, it being after the office hours, it was referred till the next day.
Q. Who put the saddle bags and things into the coach? - The coachman himself put it into the coach.
Q. Did you get off the seat of the coach to look for your money? - Yes; I got out and I turned my back to the coachman for five or six yards.
Q. How soon after you returned was it you missed the saddle bags? - About one minute and a half.
Q. Was he standing or sitting? - Standing at the coach door. There was a man rode on the coach box along with the coachman, and the coach went remarkably slow.
Prisoner. Please you, my lord, I was called to the Saracen's Head, Snow-hill, to take up, about eight o'clock in the evening; the porter brought a pair of saddle bags and a bundle, and put them into the coach himself; the gentleman ordered me to drive him to the pump, Piccadilly; when I got there he got out, he offered me half a crown, told me to give him a shilling; I had none, he put his hand in his pocket and went to the light in a window; immediately as his back was turned his bags were gone; I called to him immediately, I hallooed out stop thief! then he ordered me to drive him to the corner of Shire-lane; then I carried him to the office, and the justice took my number, my mistress's name, and my name. I am innocent; nor did I carry any body on the box.
Court to Prosecutor. Did you hear any body call out? - He did not call out after him.
Q. What became of the man on the box? When he came down Prince's street in order to come down Coventry-street, he was got down.
Q. Was he gone from the coach before the things were stole? - He was gone from the coach about seven or eight minutes before.
The prisoner called five witnesses who gave him a good character.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice ASHURST.
148. HARRIOTT MERCHANT and SOPHIA BRYANT were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 22d of January , from the person of John Denison, privately and without his knowledge, a canvas bag, value 2d, six guineas and five shillings, and a bank note, value 10l. the goods of the said John Denison .
Q. When was this? - The 22d of last month.
Q. They were all three in company? - I cannot possibly say they were all or not.
Q. How can you say they accosted you then? - They did accost me.
Q. Who was it did accost you? - The tallest of the prisoners at the bar.
Q. What time was it? - Between nine and ten o'clock. They took me to No. 13, in Oxford-buildings, they took me up one pair of stairs back room, all the three.
Q. What state were you in at this time? - As sober as I am now; I only drank part of some porter and some spirits, only three six penny worths of rum and water, and part of a tankard of porter, that was all I had that evening.
Q. Did they all come into the room with you? - Yes.
Q. Did you see them all in the street together? - No, I cannot positively say I did; they all came into the room when I did.
Q. Then you only see one in the street at the time? - No, Harriott Merchant.
Q. Then all the prisoners came into the room at the same time? - Yes; they prest on me to treat them with something to drink; I told them I had no objection to treating them, but I did not wish to
Q. Then you pulled out your purse? - Yes, and she went and fetched some liquor.
Q. Who remained in the room while she was gone? - The woman that is admitted an evidence, and the tall prisoner, Campbell. When the liquor came back, I cannot positively say what liquor she brought; they asked me to partake of part of it, but I refused it; I told them I did not want it, they might take it themselves; I then told them I should make the best of my way home; they were very officious in lighting me down stairs; I told them I could go down very well without them; when I got down stairs, and got to the bottom of Oxford-buildings, before I crossed Oxford-street, I felt in my pocket to find whether I had my property or not.
Q. How far is that? - About twenty or thirty yards up. I felt in my pocket, I found my purse and money in it. I then crossed Oxford-street, and in about forty yards of Mary-le-bone-lane, the said three women came round me; the woman that is admitted an evidence she came in the front of me, and the other two came one on one side of me and the other behind me; they hustled me very close, and I looked round and saw they were the same girls, and I told them I did not want any concern with them; at the time when they pressed on me so very close, the two prisoners at the bar parted from me, and went away from me; I immediately felt in my pocket to see whether I had my money, and I found it was gone; I immediately seized the woman who is turned evidence, and took her to the watch-house; the watchman took charge of her that night, and she was searched and no property was found about her; she desired she might be admitted an evidence, and she would cause the others to be apprehended; and they were apprehended by her directions the next morning; they were taken down to Marlborough-street.
Q. When did you see them again? - I see them the next morning in the same room; I went to the watch-house, and then I went to their room, which is at No. 130, Oxford-buildings, with the constable of the night, he searched the room, but he found no property in the room belonging to me; they were brought to the watch-house, and taken down to Marlborough-street.
Q. Did you ever find your money again? - No.
Q. What had you in your purse? - I had a ten pounds bank note.
Q. Are you sure they are the women? - Yes, I am. They are the same women that surrounded me in Mary-le-bone-lane.
Q. Did you know them again at that time? - I did.
Q. Are you perfectly sure that you found your purse safe then? - Yes; I put my hand in my pocket in Oxford-street.
Q. Did you take it out? - No.
Q. Then, I suppose, it was out of your coat that you pulled your purse when you was in the room? - It was.
Q. How long was it before the women came to you in the street, that you felt your purse? - Not a minute hardly; I only went about forty yards before they came to me.
Q. Was it not possible that any body else might have taken it? - I kept my hand in my coat pocket I am sure till the time the women met me.
Q. Which pocket was it? - My left hand pocket.
Q. Was this done with a degree of violence? - They seemed to hustle very close to me.
Q. How long did they stay with you? - Not above a minute.
Q. How long was it after the two women at the bar were gone that you missed the purse? - As soon as they were gone I missed it.
Q. How far was the watch-house from this? - About eighty yards from where the robbery was committed.
Q. Then you know how it was done of your own knowledge? - I cannot say; but they are same two women that were about me in Mary-le-bone-lane.
Prisoner Merchant. He says he had his money safe when he went out of my room, and I never see him any more till I was taken up.
Court to Prosecutor. Did you and the woman go out together? - No, I did not.
Q. Did either of them light you down? - They neither of them lighted me down all the stairs.
Q. Who opened the door to let you out? - I opened it myself.
Prisoner Merchant. He said he had his money in his breeches pocket before the justice.
Prosecutor. I declared that I had a pair of breeches on that had no pockets in them.
Court. What time was this in the evening? - About nine minutes past ten o'clock.
Q. Had you any watch? - No.
Q. Did you feel their hands in your pocket? - No, I did not.
Q. Your information at the justice's mentions the prisoners hands being in your pocket? - I felt them very close.
Q. Is it true, or is it not? Had they hold of you at all? - They had hold of me, and were very close to me indeed.
I am a watchman; between ten and eleven o'clock at night, this robbery was committed, at Portman-square, I was standing on my own walk.
Q. What street was this? - Coming out of Orchard-street, going into Baker-street.
Q. Were they in Orchard street? - They were in the square.
Q. Did they come up together? - The little one (Bryant) came up with two more, and the words she mentioned were, that she was very glad that she had got the ten pounds bank note.
Q. Did you take any notice of them? - No.
Q. Which way did they go? - Towards Baker-street.
Q. How do you know it was the little prisoner at the bar? - I knew her before.
Q. She had two more women with her? - Yes, she had; Harriott Merchant was not with her, but two more were.
Q. When was it that you saw any thing of the prisoner afterwards? - The next day; I helped to take them to the watch-house.
Q. Then all she talked about was the ten pounds note? - That is all.
Q. Did she talk of any purse? - No.
Q. How are you sure it to be the prisoner Bryant while she was with the other woman? You was not at the watch-house that night? - No, I was not.
Prisoner Bryant. Why did not he stop me when he heard me say I had the ten pounds note?
Witness. How could I stop her in that manner, I did not think of doing it.
MARGARET DUNNIVAN sworn.
Q. Remember the situation in which you stand, and say nothing but the truth, and relate what you know of this business? - On the 22d of January, last month, I was along with these two girls that are at the bar now, they asked me to have part of a pint of purl, in Woodstock-street, and in coming out of Woodstock-street, going to Bond-street, we met this gentleman, and they asked him how he did? he said he was very well; they asked him to go home with them; he said he did not care; he walked home with them to a one pair of stairs back room, we all went with him, and he gave a shilling out of a bag from his pocket for something to drink.
Q. Which pocket did he take the bag from? - It seemed to me to be as his coat pocket, to the best that I could see then, and while the least of the two was gone for something to drink, the tall one told me to go out of the room.
Q. Then Bryant went with the shilling to get something to drink? - Yes, and I went away into the court, and in less that three minutes the two girls came down with the same gentleman; they came down together, all three of them, and the gentleman crossed over into Mary-le-bone parish, and the two girls called me and I followed them, and went up the street and came back again.
Q. Did you go to the girls then? - I did, I met them all three talking together, and the biggest of the two had her arms round him, and I see her hands in his coat pocket; it was Harriott Merchant.
Q. Where was you at this time? - Standing by, I was before him.
Q. Did you see anything taken out of his pocket? - I see her hand in.
Q. What did you do by standing before him? - I was waiting for them, I did not know what their intention was.
Q. When they called to you what did they say to you? - They bid me to stop, and I did.
Q. Which side was it you saw her hand in? - The left side to the best of my knowledge.
Q. What became of you when they ran away? - The gentleman took me into custody to Mary-le-bone watch house, and I was stripped naked and was searched.
Q. Then you did not tell the gentleman what you had seen? - Yes, I did.
Q. Not before he took you into custody? - No, he said he had lost something, and he took me into custody immediately; I told him the number of the door where they lived.
Q. You had no share of this money? - No, they sent to me while I was in the house of correction, that if the bills were thrown out I should have some.
Q. Then you swear that while you was standing before this gentleman you did not know any intention of their taking his money? - No, far from it.
Q. As to any hustling on your part you had no hand in it? - No, I never touched him, nor put my hand on him.
Q. What did you tell this prosecutor when he took hold of you? - I told him they must be the persons that had robbed him, for I see her hand in his pocket; I asked him if he had lost any thing? and he immediately laid hold of me.
Q. There was nothing said about his purse between the other women and you before you went after him? - No, there was not.
Prisoner Bryant. I wish to ask whether she was not committed from Marlborough-street for stealing from a butcher two guiness and a half? - No, never. I was here and was discharged by proclamation with two other girls. That same prisoner at the bar I only took her in one night and she robbed me of two guineas.
Prisoner Merchant. Whether I did not ask her to shew me a light when she lighted this man down? - No, no such thing, I left her in the room while the man was there, and the other was gone for some drink.
Prisoner Merchant. She did not go out of the room till the other came in; I never had any connection with him.
Prisoner Bryant. She brought this butcher up in our room, and she said it was a friend of her's, and he sent for something to drink, and when I came up stairs he went down, and I never see any thing more of him afterwards.
Q. Do you live in the house where the prisoner lodged? - No, all that I see was, Dunnivan speak to this man and she asked him to give her something to drink.
Q. Who was with him at that time? - There was only them two.
Q. Did you see where he came from at that time? - No, I did not; she went that way after him and I never see her afterwards.
The prisoner at the bar, Harriott Merchant, was in my house till near half past ten; I keep the house that Harriott Merchant lodges in, she was at home from nine till half past ten, she was in my shop, for I stood talking to her till I shut it up near half after ten o'clock.
Q. Where did she come from? - Out of her own room, the prisoner at the bar was in the room at the same time; I called her down, I wanted to speak to her, she wanted to go to Crown-court, and I persuaded her not to go out any more that night.
Q. When did she want to go to Crown-court? - About nine o'clock, and she staid in the shop till near half past ten.
Q. How long had she been in before nine? - I cannot tell.
Q. And as to the time, how did you know the time? - The watchman was going past ten, and I told her it was past ten; she nursed my child and staid till past ten o'clock.
Q. You know nothing about any man being there? - No, I do not.
Q. Do you know any thing of Margaret Dunnivan being there? - I do not, she is quite an entire stranger to me.
Both not GUILTY .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron THOMPSON.
CHARLES SHIELDS , otherwise JAMES SHIELDS , was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 4th of August , ten shilling , the monies of Henry Tibbs .
Henry Tibbs and witnesses were called on their recognizances, and not appearing, the prisoner was ACQUITTED .
150. PAUL WEAVER was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 4th of February , a watch, the inside case made of base metal, gilt with gold, and the outside case made of shagreen, value 2l. two base metal watch keys, value 2d. a base metal watch chain gilt with gold, value 1s. a stone seal set in base metal, value 6d. and a base metal watch hook, value 1d. the goods of John Bromfield .
I am a linen draper . I was robbed at the Post office on Wednesday the 4th of February, of my watch, as described in the indictment, I went there to carry a letter; I had the letter in one hand and the money in the other, in holding my arm out to deliver the letter and pay for it, I felt my watch drawn out of my pocket, I put my arm out, the right arm, and caught hold of the prisoner's arm, I told him that he had robbed me of my watch, or that he had got my watch; he says, I got your watch! I told him he had; he then endeavoured to get away, I took fast hold of his arm, and he drew back; I had a parcel under the left arm, and a letter in the left hand.
Q. Your letter was still in your left hand? - It was; he endeavoured to get away, a second person came up and I was hustled between them for a little time, the one that came up afterwards made off; he strove very hard, I seeing this lad standing by, I threw my parcel down and dropped my sixpence, and begged this lad to take care of my parcel; he is a witness; the lad took the parcel up, and I dragged the prisoner into the letter office and then sent for a constable, who took him to the Poultry computer; he was searched but nothing was found upon him.
Q. Was any other people there beside at the time? - There were several people paying for their letters; It was about ten minutes before seven.
Q. Where was the parcel? - On the left hand, the prisoner was on the right, and the other was at my back.
Q. Was any body near the prisoner at the time he was facing you? - I did not observe, I cannot say.
Mr. Knapp. You now live in Newgate-street? - Yes.
Q. There were many people in the Post office? - Yes.
Q. You had suspicion of the prisoner and you apprehended him? - No suspicion, I took hold of his arm instantly.
Q. How old are you? - Fifteen, next April. I was at the Post office when Mr. Bromfield was at the Post office, I see him throw down his parcel, I see a man draw his hand from Mr. Bromfield's sob.
Q. Do you know who the man was? - The man at the bar. Mr. Bromfield threw down his parcel and I picked it up. I went to the Post office and put my letters in, and then I came back and called a constable.
Q. You say you saw the man draw his hand from the fob? - Yes.
Q. At the time that he drew his hand
Q. Was that before he threw down his parcel, or at the time he laid hold of him? Which was first, or were they both together? Did the prisoner draw away his hand before Mr. Bromfield laid hold of him, or after? - He drew his hand away, and Mr. Bromfield caught hold of him directly.
Q. Did you see any thing in his hand? - I did not.
Q. Would not a man that had been laid hold of by surprise do the same thing? - Yes.
Q. Did it appear to you more than that? - It did not.
Q. Did the prisoner draw away his arm first? - The prisoner drew away his arm first, and he caught hold of him immediately.
Q. Was any other person near besides Mr. Bromfield? - No, I am sure there was not.
Q. Mr. Bromfield could not answer that question? - I did not perceive any body.
Q. It is one thing to say you did not perceive any, and another thing to say there were none? - I did not see any body.
Q. Was he examined before he was carried to the compter? - No, he was not, he was searched at the compter.
Mr. Knapp. How near was you to the prisoner? - Close to him.
Q. Did you front him? - I did.
Q. There was another man ran away? - There was, directly as Mr. Bromfield caught hold of him another man ran away towards Lombard-street.
Court. Where did that man run away from? - From the Post office.
Q. How far was this man from him? - I did not see, I see him run across Lombard-street.
Mr. Knapp. The other man ran away the moment Mr. Bromfield talked about the watch? - He did.
Q. And you was so near the prisoner that you should have seen if he had the watch, you say? - I should.
Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.
The prisoner called two witnesses who understood him to he a printer, and gave him a good character.
Not GUILTY .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I keep the Crown, Lincoln's Inn-passage . On the 28th of January, the prisoner came in and called for a pint of beer, which he paid for, and in going out of the house a person called to me and said, that man has got something; I followed him to Lincoln's Inn, and I said, my friend, what have you got? he says, I have paid for the beer, what do you want? I said, I did not agree for you to take the pot. I took him back to my house and took the pot from him.
Q. Did you examine him when you took him back whether there was any pot missing? - He said, when I took the pot out of his pocket, if I have got it in my pocket somebody must have put it in. I sent for the constable and gave him charge of him.
Prisoner. The pot was put in my pocket. They asked me if I would go for a soldier? I told them I was not fit for it.
A CONSTABLE sworn.
Prosecutor. This is my pot.
Prisoner. I was in this public house and had a pint of beer; there were some men in the room, they asked me if I had any money in my pocket? I said I had as much as I wanted. I staid there some time on account of the weather; they asked me if I would go for a soldier? I said, no I was lame. They must have put the pot in my pocket, I know nothing about the pot.
Constable. I asked him how such an old man as he should do such a thing? he said he was guilty of it, and was sorry for it.
GUILTY . (Aged 52.)
Imprisoned one month in Newgate , and publickly whipped .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
I am a silk mercer .
JAMES COE sworn.
Q. How old are you? - Fifteen. I am a shop lad to Mr. Levick. On the 17th of January, Saturday night, between the hours of five and six, as I was putting up the bars of the shutters, two boys came and enquired the way to Houndsditch; I perceived the prisoner at the bar going into the shop; I immediately left off conversing with these two boys, and was going into the shop to see what the prisoner wanted, and as I was going into the shop the prisoner was coming out with a piece of callimanco in his hand, which I believe to have laid on the counter; as I was going to collar him he enquired of me whether it was paper; I immediately seized him, and the moment I seized him he threw the piece of callimanco down into the shop, and he tried to get away very much, he dragged me into the street.
Q. Have you got the callimanco? - Yes, the constable kept it ever since.
Q. Did he get away? - No, he did not get away, I had him committed.
Q. Is it his own hand writing? - Yes.
Q. Do you know the mark as well as your master? - No.
Prisoner. When he first laid hold of me, he said his master was drinking wine up stairs.
I am a constable; I produce the property which was delivered to me with the prisoner.
Q. What is it? - Camblet. I don't know whether it is callimanco or camblet.
Q. Who delivered it to you? - Mr. Levick.
Q. Have you kept it ever since? - I have.
Q. Did you ever open that piece of paper? - No.
Q. To Levick. Did you receive that of your shop-lad, Coe? - I did.
Q. In your presence did your lad charge the prisoner with taking it from you? - Yes, he did.
Q. Did you know where that property was laying before you went up stairs? - On the counter. I know it to be mine.
Q. Any doubt of its being your's? - None.
Q. What is it? - Stripped callimanco, twenty-nine yards.
GUILTY . (Aged 15.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
153. JOHN BARRY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 30th of January , a pannel saw, value 2s. a smoothing plane, value 3s. the goods of John Armitage ; a trying plane, value 28. a rabbit plane, value 6d. and a hand saw, value 1s. 6d. the goods of William Loveday .
Q. When did you first miss them? - On Saturday morning, about six o'clock. We heard of them about ten o'clock the same morning, and we saw them at Mr. Parker's, the pawnbroker, the corner of Wood-street, he was the person that detained them, and sent about to see if they could be owned.
Q. Do you know them when you see them? - Yes. They are here, I have them, the constable would not come.
Q. Do you know his name? - Fletcher. I am certain of the tools, the plane I made myself, and the saw I have had two years and made common use of it; I should have known it if it had been carried to America, I know it very well.
I am a carpenter.
Q. Did you lose any tools at any time? - Yes, a trying plane, a rabbit plane and a hand saw.
Q. When did you lose them? - On the 30th of January last.
Q. Did you lose them from the same place? - Yes.
Q. Did you see them at the pawnbroker's the next day for the first time after? - Yes.
Q. Did you know them to be your's? - Yes.
Q. How did you know the trying plane to be your's? - Very well; there is the maker's name on it. The rabbit plane I bought it of Mr. Parker, I have had it about two months, I know it by the mark of it, I could tell it from a hundred;
I live with Mr. Parker.(The rabbit plane shewn him.)
Q. Have you ever had that in your custody before? - There is my mark on it.
Q. When were these tools brought to you? - On the 30th of January; the prisoner at the bar brought a basket of tools to pledge, it was in the evening, about a quarter past seven, to the best of my recollection.
Q. Had you ever seen the prisoner before? - Yes.
Q. You know him? - Yes; he said they were his own.
Q. Are you sure the rabbit plane is one that he brought? - Yes, I am quite sure of that by the mark I put on it.
Q. Then he was detained? - Yes.
Q. Do you recollect who you sold the rabbit plane to? - I do not.
Q. To Armitage. You said you had it for two months; now there happens to be this man's hand writing on it, will you venture to swear that is your's? did you ever see that man's hand writing there? - I never took particular notice; I never saw that man's hand writing there.
Prisoner. One John Wilkins brought me the tools, and asked me to pawn them for him; he was in distress he said.
GUILTY, Of stealing the rabbit plane only .
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
154. JAMES DRUCE and JOHN BOWLING were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 18th of January a hundred pounds weight of beef, value 2l. fifty pounds weight of mutton, value 1l. a dead pig, value 5s. ten pounds weight of lamb, value 10s. an iron cleaver, value 2s. and a linen cloth, value 6d. the goods of John Hayes .
Q. Can you speak to the meat that you left there? - Yes; I left a side of lamb.
Q. Did you leave that with other meat? - Yes.
Q. Were your servants there later than you? - Yes, one of them is here.
Q. Did you see any part of your meat afterwards? - I see a quarter of lamb afterwards, about eleven or twelve o'clock on Sunday morning. The constable and my servant took two pieces out of the necessary.
Q. Who was the servant that was left in your shop? - Joseph Ward.
I live with Mr. Hayes, I am a servant.
Q. Were you the last in the shop? - No.
Q. Who had you left behind you? - My fellow servant and young master.
Q. When you returned about eleven, who was in the shop? - Nobody at all.
Q. Can you tell what meat was left in the shop when you went out of it? - Yes, I can tell every thing.
Q. What meat was there? - A rump and surloin, and part of a surloin and edge bone, and a leg of beef, and rump bone, a saddle and a leg of mutton, and another leg of mutton belonging to it, which made a pair of hind quarters, another besides that, cut in two, and a neck.
Q. Was there any cleaver left there? - Yes, and a large shoulder of mutton besides.
Q. Was there any cloths there belonging to your master? - One lamb cloth.
Q. Here is a pig mentioned, was that left when you went away? - Yes.
Jury. We wish to have the servant called that shut the shop up.
PHILIP JOSTLING sworn.
I am a constable belonging to the City. On the 18th of January, Sunday, I was sent for to Mr. Hayes, he acquainted me his shop was broke open, and had been robbed of some meat; I was returning with the last witness to several cook shops, to enquire if any meat had been offered for sale; in consequence of which I went with a witness to Georgealley, Fleet-market.
Q. What time of the morning was it you found them there? - Between twelve and one in the morning; these two prisoners were in the back yard, and English, the evidence, was in the room; when I went in I heard the word, ding it, come from the yard.
Q. Was there any way for any persons in the yard seeing you? - No, I only knew it to be a flash word, meaning, to put it on one side.
Q. Was there any window in the back yard? - I did not observe.
Q. Was there any door? - There was.
Q. Then these persons could see any body coming through that aperture? - I suppose so. I directly went into this yard, this gave me a suspicion that I was right in my enquiry.
Q. Had you done any thing or said any thing to English? - No, he remained in the room where he was; when I went into the yard I perceived the two prisoners with their hands up to the wall. but I did not see any thing in their possession.
Q. Describe what you mean by their hands up to the wall? - The wall by the privy, about five feet high it is, it parts the yard of the adjoining house; I then said to the last witness, I think they have thrown something over the wall. I then took the prisoner Bowling into custody.
Q. How came you not to take the other also? - They followed me, I could not socure them both, Druce followed
Q. What became of Druce and English? - They were secured by Mr. Hayes, and some butchers about there; after they were secured I went back, and went back to the next house, to where I had taken the prisoners, and into the next yard.
Q. How soon was this? - In ten minutes or a quarter of an hour; there I found a quarter of house lamb, about a quarter of a yard from the wall, that divides the two yards; I then took it into my possession, and returned to the house where I took the prisoners from; I then searched the lower apartment, and could find nothing there; I then went up stairs and could find nothing there; I took the candle and went to the privy in the yard, where the prisoners were, and found some meat down the privy; I told the lad to get something to get it up, and he did.
Q. Was you present? - No, I was not, I was in the room.
Q. You see it after it was got up? - I did, it seemed to be part of a shoulder of house lamb, that is all I can say; I kept it till it was taken before the magistrate, and then it was delivered to Mr. Hayes; I shewed into him as soon as I came up Bear-alley; he said it was his property, because it was so remarkable white.
Q. Did you find any cloths? - No.
Q. Any cleaver? - No.
Q. Did you find any beef? - Yes, I found some beef, No. 2, Eve-court, Blackfriars.
Q. Whose house was it? - I don't know, the apartment belonged to a man of the name of Flint.
Q. What did you find there? - A quantity of meat, of different kinds, one piece Mr. Hayes swore to before the magastrate. It was all delivered up to him before the magistrate.
Q. You found no cleaver there? - No, there was some mutton in salt which Mr. Hayes did not own.
Mr. Knapp. You found nothing while these men were present? - No.
Court to Prosecutor. Mr. Jostling has told us that he produced to you on the Sunday morning, a quarter of house lamb, what knowledge had you that that quarter was your property, and had not been sold that day? - I had but one lamb, which was purchased on purpose, as a a particular white lamb; I had an order for the side of it to go to the Green Hotel, at Liverpool; I sent a side of it packed up on Saturday night by the Liverpool mail before seven o'clock; the other was put in a cloth which they stole in the night.
Q. How late were you in the shop yourself? - About eleven o'clock.
Q. You had sold no part of that lamb yourself? - It was too late to sell lamb at that time of night, it was packed up not to be sold.
Q. That leg of lamb that Mr. Jostling produced to you, are you able to say that it was the lamb you packed up? - I know that it was, I don't know that I ever saw such a white lamb in my life; the fat of the leg of the lamb was a little tore in the dressing of it.
Q. You never saw the cloths again? - No, never see the cloths again, nor the pig.
Q. We have been told of some beef that was found in Eve-court. Did Jostling shew that to you? - Yes, he brought it to me in a red pan; one of these pieces of beef was a rib which I cut myself, which I positively swear to, and which had not been sold.
Mr. Knapp. They are not produced here? - No, it was a long time ago now.
Court. Did you see these things that were down the privy? - Yes, they corresponded with the hind quarter of the lamb, it was the fore quarter that was lost.
Q. They did not find the whole? - No.
Mr. Knapp. You lost a side of lamb? - A side of lamb.
Q. When you lost it it was done up in a cloth, that cloth has never been found since? - Never.
Q. All the lamb you found in the prisoner's house together, did it make up the quantity you lost? - It did not.
Q. That did not lead you to suppose it was the same lamb? - I know it was the same lamb, I have no doubt.
I am servant to Mr. Hayes.
Q. How late were you at your shop on the 17th of January? - Till about half after eleven, very near twelve, not quite.
Q. Who was the last person in the shop? - I was the last person.
Q. Do you remember Mr. Hayes going away from the shop? - I cannot say I do.
Q. What sort of meat did you leave behind in the shop? - A rump of beef, and a sirloin, a pair of quarters of mutton, an edge bone of beef, a leg of mutton, a neck of mutton, and side of lamb.
Q. Now about this side of lamb, be particular. What lamb had you that day, one or more? - Two lambs.
Q. What became of the other lamb? - Sold to people in the shop.
Q. Was the side of lamb sold to chance customers? - I am not very certain of it.
Q. One half was left; what do you recollect about the other? - It was sold, but I don't know now to whom; there was one half left that is all I do recollect.
Q. How was that half disposed of which you left in the shop? - It hung up by the foot, wrapped up in a white cloth.
Q. Was it remarkable? Did you take any notice of it? - No further than it was a very good one.
Q. Then you had sold no part of that half lamb? - None.
Q. And the beef was remaining there? - Yes.
Q. And the pig you left there? - Yes.
Q. Do you recollect any cleaver missing? - One, and there was a cloth.
Q. Was that the cloth which the lamb was wrapped in? - Yes.
Q. What care did you take of the door? - Double locked it.
Q. Had any body been there belonging to your master, before you? - No, none.
Q. In what condition did you find the shop? - I came to the shop door and tried to unlock it, and found it was wrenched open.
Q. Describe how? - As if by some iron instrument.
Q. Were the windows secured properly? - Very so.
Q. Did you see the hind quarter? - No, I did not.
Q. Did you see the beef? - I did not.
Q. The cleaver? - I did not.
Q. They were left there when you left the shop? - They were, and gone in the morning.
Mr. Knapp. You have been a good servant to Mr. Hayes, and he sells as good meat as his neighbours? - I cannot say any thing about that.
Q. There is nothing particular in his meat to any other butcher's? - Not that I know of.
Q. You know in what character you come here, mind that you speak nothing but what is true. What is your employment? - I work in Fleet-market, as a butcher.
Q. Do you live with any particular butcher, or are you occasionally employed by the butchers? - Occasionally employed by other butcher's, but I am mostly with Mr. -
Q. Tell your own story what you know of this charge against the prisoners at the bar? - I was locked out of my lodgings on Saturday night.
Q. How long before you was taken up? - I was taken up on the Sunday following; I lodged up at Mr. Stanmore's, in George-alley, along with an old man, I had lodged there a few nights; I used to lodge at Mr. Clarke's, at the Wheatsheaf, the side of the Market. Bowling told me I was welcome to sit up at his lodgings; I met Bowling coming out of the door of the wine vaults.
Q. Did you know him before this time? - I knew him to work at the coal vessels, Mr. Clarke is his father-in-law, where I lodged before.
Q. What passed between you and him? - I sat up there because I was locked out.
Q. But did he know you were locked out? - I told him so; James Druce came there between one and two o'clock.
Q. Where were his lodgings? - In George alley.
Q. That is the same alley in which you lodge? - Yes, it is.
Q. How long after you had been at the lodgings, was it that Druce came in? - About half an hour after.
Q. Had you been to bed there? - No, they had no place for me to lay.
Q. Was Bowling a bed? - Yes, Druce came in and sent for liquor to drink.
Q. Did he send for liquor for you and he to drink? - Yes, and likewise Bowling's wife.
Q. Did Bowling get up when he came there? - No, he was rather in liquor when he went to bed, and he was fast asleep.
Q. Was the bed in the same room you were at? - Yes.
Q. What happened next after you sat down with Druce, and Bowling's wife? - Druce took a bolt that served for a poker, and went down the market with it; he insisted on my going with him, and took hold of me by the collar.
Q. Was nothing said what was to he done with this poker? - He said some girl had affrented him, and he was going to lick this girl with the poker, he had been licking of her before; then I went down with him, he said she was over the arch way, instead of that he went quite the reverse way, he went to Mr. Hawkins's shop, him and me together.
Q. Did he give you any reason for not going where he said the girl was? - No.
Q. Did not you ask what was the reason? Did not you think it extraordinary? - He told me he was going only a little way up the market; he went and tried Mr. Hawkins's shop, a butcher's shop, the next but one to Mr. Hayes's; he said he could not break open that door, he tried to put the poker in between the staple to drive the staple out, and he said he could not wrench the staple out; he then went to Mr. Hayes's shop and broke it open, he made me stand by him, he licked me on the breast when he was at Mr. Hayes's door, because I did not stand close by him.
Q. He behaved very ill to you, what occasioned him to strike you? - Because I said I would leave him, while he fetched the middle of the sirloin of beef.
Q. Then you see him open that door? - Yes, I did.
Q. Then there were only you and him there? - Yes, Bowling was not there at the time.
Q. He fetched out the middle of the sirloin of beef, you say, and what else? - A pig, a leg of mutton, and a shoulder of mutton, and took it to Mr. Bowling's apartment.
Q. Did he take any thing else? - No, not at once, he came back again three or four times.
Q. How long after he took these to Bowling's did you go to Bowling's? - Directly. Bowling was then asleep, and his wife in bed with him, but she was not asleep. The second time we brought a rump and sirloin of beef; the dogs barked at him very much the first time, the dogs in the shop, one was tied up and the other was loose; he went into the place the second time with a pen knife in case the dogs barked; he brought all the meat he could find, I see him bring it all out; he brought out a side of lamb, lamb is called a side of lamb when it is cut down the middle; it was wrapped up in a white cloth, the cloth was damp.
Q. Any thing else? - A coarse cloth, a cleaver that they chop up meat with, it was all taken to Bowling's house, and I see him put it all into the cupboard, all the meat, and he sat up there all the night.
Q. Who went to Mrs. Flint's? - Bowling, Lewis, (or Druce) and I, on the Sunday morning; Bowling took the rump and sirloin of beef, and an edge bone of beef, as much as he could carry; Lewis took a little of the meat, and I took a shoulder of mutton, and they took them up stairs in that house, the house I shewed to Mr. Jostling, and when they came down stairs, they told me that Mrs. Flint had given them a guinea.
Q. Who said that? - James Lewis; they had sent me home to Mr. Bowling's house, and they left at Bowling's house, an edge bone of beef, a shoulder of mutton, two legs, and some small tops
Q. I thought you said they put it into the cupboard? - So they did at first.
Q. Did they go a second time to the woman? - Yes.
Q. After you came back? - Yes.
Q. Did you go along with them? - Yes.
Q. What was it put in when there was this outcry? - In a sack, because it was dangerous to carry it; then they sent me away, I went back to Bowling's house and they came back in about an hour.
Q. Did you remain that time there? - Yes. When they came back they told me they got eight shillings for what they took up the last time, the course cloth, the cleaver went with this last meat.
Q. What next? - They had a quarter of lamb cut up for breakfast, the other Mr. Jostling took from them.
Q. How soon after their second return did Mr. Jostling come back? - In about an hour, or rather more; he came about one o'clock, Lewis and Bowling then were in a back place where they keep pigs, a room that was boarded.
Q. What does it join to? - There was a bit of parting between their house and the back house. Just as Jostling came to the door they took the quarter of lamb out of the cupboard, and took it into the back place.
Q. When Jostling came you heard them call ding it, what was done after that? - Jostling came and secured Bowling, took him into custody, and the servants of Mr. Hayes went back and looked for this meat, and they found it, and they brought it to a public house, the Brown Bear, at the top of the alley. Jostling did not take me into custody; I following Bowling to see where they were going to take him; then Mr. Hayes gave charge of Lewis, and me, Bowling was in the public house, and we were taken to the compter.
Q. How soon after was it you gave any information yourself? - I was in the counter about half or three quarters of an hour; I took them to the place where they conveyed the meat to, to this woman's house; they found these bits of beef in the house just salted, and a scrag of mutton, and they brought it to Mr. Hayes.
Jury. You say the meat was sold for one guinea, have you received any part of that money? - No.
Q. If you had received any part of the money, should you have been here as evidence? - Yes.
Prisoner Druce. I was sitting up in this man's room, and I know nothing at all about it, and he was in bed and asleep, and his wife too.
Prisoner Bowling. I was in bed and asleep, and my wife and child.
Bowling called five witnesses who gave him a good character, who said he was bred a waterman and lighterman.
James Druce, otherwise Lewis,
Transported for seven years .
John Bowling, not GUILTY .
WILLIAM OWEN was indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of John Harrison and Thomas Burne , about the hour of seven in the night, on the 28th of January , and burglariously stealing therein, six china cups, value 2s. 9d. the goods of the said John Harrison and Thomas Burne.
A second COUNT laying it to be in the dwelling house of Thomas Burne.
Q. In what manner was the door opened? - By the latch. I was in the counting house adjoining to the shop, but did not see it done.
Q. Were any of your people in the shop? - None.
Q. What do you know about it? - I saw nothing of it myself, I was called out of the counting house by the evidence, and told that my shop was robbed; I examined the window and found six china cups gone from the six saucers.
Q. What may be the value of them? - Half a crown. The evidence brought the prisoner into the shop, and he said he saw him throw the cups into the road; and he-ran and fetched some of the pieces, which corresponded with the saucers, which I shewed him in the shop; I have kept them till now separate.(Produced.)
Q. The cups and saucers that were in the window were your cups and saucers? - They were.
- HOWARD sworn.
I am apprentice to Mrs. French, opposite to Harrison and Burne's; I was in the shop about seven o'clock in the evening, and I saw the prisoner go to Messrs. Harrison's and Burne's door -
Q. Was the door shut, or was it locked? - Shut; he opened it, it was hasped.
Q. Did he take one cup? - Several.
Q. Was it dark at this time? - Quite dark; Mr. Burne's candles were lighted. He ran about five or six doors from Mr. Harrison's and Burne's, I pursued him, and he threw the cups in the mud; I was close behind him, within a few yards; he ran as far as Long-lane, and I cried out stop him, and I ran up and took hold of him immediately; my fellow servant coming up assisted me, and we brought him back to Harrison's and Burne's; then I left him in Mr. Burne's, and told Mr. Burne I would go and pick up the pieces of the cups, which I did, where I saw him throw them in the highway; they were broke all to pieces, I gave them to Mr. Burne.
I am a constable, I only took charge.
Q. Who delivered him in charge? - Mr. Burne.
Prisoner. As I was coming from Clare-market, from my master's, coming down Long-lane, I was taken very ill, I went up a gateway to reach, being very sick,
GUILTY, Of stealing but not of the burglary .(Aged 19.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
A second COUNT for having about him a counterfeit sixpence.
Q. See if you know the prisoner? - Yes, I see him on the 15th of January , I believe it was Thursday, about one o'clock; my husband is a perfumer; I had agreed to buy sixpenny worth of oranges of this person in the street, in Fleet-street; I gave him a shilling, and, as I supposed, he returned it me, saying it was a bad one; I gave him another, he rubbed that and returned it, wishing I had got another he should like it better; I immediately put my hand in my pocket and took out one and gave it him.
Q. Did you take that one back from him? - Yes. I gave him a third, and he returned that; I gave him five in all, and he returned them; he objected to the fifth, he would have changed the fifth, only I told him I had not another in my pocket.
Q. Then, if I understand you right, you took four back in all, you did not take the fifth back? - No. At that moment that he was going to give me the sixpence, he had five of my shillings, and I had got four of his in my hand, and he was going to give me sixpence, at that time a person named March came out of his own shop, and asked me if I was sure the prisoner gave me good money, and wished me to give it him, which I did out of my hand; he told me there were one or two very bad ones; he took and collared the man, and took him into the shop, and I followed him, and these five shillings that I gave to the man, my husband gave me about five minutes before I left home, and they were all the silver I had in my pocket.
Q. Do you know whether your money was good? - I don't know a bad shilling from a good one.
Q. You said something about a sixpence, do you know whether Mr. March took that sixpence from him? - I cannot say, I believe Mr. March has got it.
Q. In what way did he sell oranges in the street? - In a basket. I was asked by him if I wished to buy any? I said, no, except he would let me have a dozen for sixpence; which he agreed to.
Q. You stated first now, that you hardly knew a bad shilling from a good one? - I am an utter stranger in London.
Q. You may have had the misfortune with other people, to have bad silver in your pocket? - I may have had, but at that time I did not know that they were bad.
Q. You seemed to have made a very good bargan? - It was very cold, and he followed me some way.
JOHN THOMAS RIGG sworn.
Q. You gave some money to your wife before she went out? - Yes; to the best of my knowledge they were good; I looked at them rather minutely, because I know Mrs. Rigg don't know a good shilling from a bad one; it was the 15th of January.
Mr. Knapp. How long have you had the good fortune to be in London? - All my life time.
Q. I take it for granted you are well aware there are a great many bad shillings in circulation? - No doubt of it.
Q. Do you mean to bind yourself down on your oath that the five shillings you gave to your wife were all good? - I believe to the best of my knowledge they were; I think it would not be prudent to be positive.
I am a fishing tackle-maker, in Fleet-street. On the 15th of January last, between one and two o'clock, I was sitting in my back parlour at dinner, and I observed this lady bargaining for some oranges with that man, and when she had bargained with him for the oranges, she gave him a piece of money, which I believe was a shilling; he took it into his hand, and then put it to his mouth and gave it a bite, and then returned, as I thought it was the same; she held out her hand to him and gave him another; he then tried that on the sleeve of his coat, and returned that; she then gave him a third and then a fourth; it then struck me he was playing some trick or other, and I went to the door and asked the lady if she was positive the shillings he returned into her hand were the shillings that she gave him? she said she did not know; and I immediately took the shillings out of her hand, and dragged him into the house, and the lady came in after him; I searched him in order to see if he had any more about him, and I found one bad sixpence, and three or four good shillings he dropped out of his mouth, and six and sixpence good about him, and these four I took out of the lady's hand were all bad.
Mr. Knapp. So that six and sixpence, and the three shillings you describe to have been in his mouth, were all good, only one bad sixpence out of the number.
Court to Prosecutor. Look at the good shillings and see if you made any observations on them you gave to your wife? - I cannot say to one of them; I presume them I gave to my wife were all good.
Q. To Rigg. Look at the four shillings? - Three of them appear very bad.
Q. What do you say to the sixpence? - It appears to be a bad one.
The prisoner called two witnesses who gave him a good character.
GUILTY , On the First COUNT.
Imprisoned six months in Newgate , and to find security for twelve months .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.
The case was opened by Mr. Knapp, and the prisoner was ACQITTED .
EDWARD BARRETT was indicted for wilful and corrupt perjury .
The record read of the trial and acquittal of Kerr and Ruggles.
MANOAH SIBLY sworn.
Q. Are you the short hand writer to the sessions? - I am.
Q. Was you short hand writer in September session last? - I was.
Q. You remember the trial of John Kerr and John Ruggles, for a felony? - Yes.
Q. Have you the original notes you took at that trial? - I have.
Q. You will be so good as to read them? - I presume you mean only the assignments.
Q. Then you only need read the assignments, and to introduce them.
"Q. How long have you been in the seafaring line ? - Ever since nine years old.
"Q. In June last were you at Deal? - I was discharged from the Hospital at Deal, they robbed me of my discharge; I came from Deal to London; I was met by an old woman on London Bridge, and I said I would give her a pint of beer to get me a night's lodging; she brought me up to a public house there somewhere over London Bridge.
"Q. How far was it from London Bridge? - A good way.
"Q. How far did you walk with the old woman after you met her? - A little way; I was only a little while in going, but I don't know the place, because I am a stranger here; when we got into the public house I looked about to give her a pint of beer, and she was off.
"Q. Do you know where this public house is situated? - I don't know, it was in the dark, and I was a stranger.
"Q. What happened to you there? - There was a very good entertainment, there was one captain said he was from Barbadoes, another from Jamaica, and another from Martinique, and some from St. Le Terre, which I took last war; and when I got in, one of them said, will you have a glass of wine? and I said, I will have a pint of porter, I am tired of wine, and one of these captains said, will you sleep along with my mate? and I walked to bed, and this pretended mate got up and shewed me into the room to bed (I know him very well if I was to see him.) I says to him, why don't you shew me the light? and as soon as they got me inside they locked the door on me, and it was all dark, and there were three bars at the windows; I was used very cruel, I saw the bar at the window in the morning and four or five padlocks on the door; that was a pity! I heard them open three or four of them in the morning. I will fight for my king and country while I am able.
" Q. Did you sleep there all night? - I did not sleep a wink. The next morning there was one of the jail-keepers came up and opened the door, and asked me how I found myself? I asked for God's sake, for some drink, for some ale; he said he would give me some directly; and he kept me there till it was dark night.
" Q. After you was put into the coach how long were you in the coach before you got to Whitcomb-street? - A good while, half an hour or an hour, I believe it was; in about half an hour I arrived at Whitcomb-street, and when I got into the house I began to fight in the house before I would go up stairs; they wanted me to go up stairs; why should I be kidnapped in that manner? and when I shoved one of them from me, there was a rope slung about my neck, threw down stairs, and I catched it, as God happened, in my left hand here, and they dragged me up stairs by it; then when they dragged me up stairs they got about and stripped me start naked, and them two men were holding me, and the rest were stripping me; one of them was an agent in my time, and the other was the landlord of the house; they were two wicked ones. Was it not a shame, gentlemen, to serve me so? They took away my property, they took my watch and my clothes, three silk handkerchiefs, two pair of silk and cotton stockings, two cotton shirts, and my pumps all that I had.
"Q. How long did you stay in this house in Whitcomb street? - A fortnight, locked up and to with bread and cold water.
"Q. Were you locked up in that room all the time? - I was, in the back part of the house up stairs.
"Q. And you never was permitted to go down stairs? - No, never.
"Q. You said that you never was out of the kidnapping house from the time that you came in it, till the time they put you in the coach to carry you to Banbury? - Never.
"Q. During the time you were in this room, was any body permitted to come in the room with you? - No, nobody but that jailer, and he left a pot of water with me and a bit of foul bread.
"Q. So you was in this room for a fortnight and nothing to live upon hue bread and water; saw nobody hardly during that time? - No, only the turnkey.
"Q. Look towards the bench, and see if you recollect the face of any person that sits there just by my lord. (Justice Kirby) - No, I never see the man in my life.
"Q. You never went before any magistrate to be attested, in your sober senses? - Never in my days."
Mr. Knapp. It is possible to make a mistake in the hurry of a trial such as this was? - It is possible to mistake a word, but at this time I was desired to be particular in taking the evidence.
Mr. Knowlys. Though it is possible to make a mistake in a word yet are you certain that what you have read is the substance and sense of what he swore? - Most certainly it is.
Q. Did you keep house in Whitcomb-street at the time you was changed with the offence of robbing this man? - I did.
Q. I believe you was tried for that offence, and acquitted? - I was.
Q. Do you remember that man coming to your house? - I remember this man coming in an hackney coach with a recruiting serjeant, one Higginbottom, the latter end of June or beginning of July.
Q. Are you yourself at all in the recruiting business, or derive any profit from recruiting? - None whatever, nor ever did.
Q. Do you know whether any body came with this man besides serjeant Higginbottom? - Only this man and another recruit.
Q. How long did this man stay at your house? - Near a fortnight, or some where thereabouts. He came quietly to the house, and sat down in the tap room and they had two or three pots of beer, he came there in a red jacket and white trowsers; a red regimental jacket. When the surgeon came he went up stairs and was examined, and then joined the rest of the recruits in a large room that is appropriated for their use, that they might be by themselves.
Q. How did he go up to this room? - He followed the doctor very quietly up stairs.
Q. Had he a rope round his neck, or any violence used to make him go up stairs? - No, no such thing ever happened in my house.
Q. During the fortnight he staid with you how was he dieted or fed? - We used to dress a joint every day for the recruits, and those that chose paid one shilling.
Q. Had this man the full liberty of eating and drinking as any person in the house might do? - Exactly so.
Q. And what was done with those that did not chuse to dine? - They sent out for meat for themselves, and dressed it as they pleased; they had a gridiron and other things proper in the room.
Q. About his drink, what drink had he? - He was in the habit of drinking gin; I hardly recollect his drinking any other liquor; he used to come down fourteen or fifteen times a day and have pennyworths of gin at the bar.
Q. Are you sure, Mr. Kerr, on the oath you have taken, that he had the liberty of coming down stairs and drinking what liquor he pleased? - He had every day during the time he was in the house.
Q. Was he, or was he not confined to one room, and confined to the diet of bread and water? - He was not.
Q. Did he ever to you, Mr. Kerr, or to your hearing and knowledge, complain of being locked up and confined, or complain of being prohibited of any thing but bread and water? - I never heard of such a complaint.
Q. Did he ever, while he was in your house, complain of ever being robbed or beaten? - I never heard of such a complaint as that.
Q. On the oath you have taken, Mr. Kerr, was he ever robbed of any thing in your house, to your knowledge, or in your presence? - Not that I know of, and I firmly believe he was never.
Q. Did Ruggles in your presence ever confine him, or beat him, or rob him of any thing? - I never heard that he did.
Q. Did he ever do it in your presence? - He never did.
Q. Did you ever rob him of any thing, of assist in confining him? - Never, I had nothing to do with the recruiting business at all.
Mr. Knapp. You told my learned friend that you had nothing to do with the recruiting business, derive no profit from it at all, but of course the more recruits you get in the house the more profit, as to the profit of the liquor? - Certainly.
Q. You was indicted and tried in September last, and acquitted? - I was.
Q. Your house was a receptable for recruits? - It was.
Q. And a place set apart where these recruits were to be taken? - A room appropriated for their use.
Mr. Knowlys. I ask you, on the oath you have taken, was there a word of truth in that complaint? - Not a single word.
Court. Was this man at all stripped naked when they took him up in the ordinary way? - I cannot say what they did with him there, he was not in my presence.
Q. Was any watch taken from him? - Not that ever I heard of.
Q. Clothes? - Not that I ever heard of.
Q. Money? - Not that I ever heard of.
Q. Handkerchiefs? - Not that I ever heard of; I never heard of any thing being taken from him till I came to Bow-street, three weeks or a month after he left my house.
Q. The surgeon when he comes he always examines to see that they are found in their limbs? - I understand they always do.
I am an army agent; at the time this transaction took place I was clerk to the army agent.
Q. Do you know the man at the bar? - Perfectly well.
Q. I believe he indicted you for robbing him last September? - He did.
Q. You were bailed, afterwards tried here, and acquitted? - I was.
Q. Did he come in voluntarily or was he brought by force? - I heard him make no complaint, he came in as a volunteer.
Q. How long did he remain in the tap room? - Till such time as the surgeon came to examine the men; he was brought in about twelve o'clock in the forenoon, and the surgeon and adjutant always attends at two o'clock regularly. I did not see him go up stairs immediately because I was in the room, he came into the room and pulled off his clothes and was examined by the surgeon.
Q. Was there any violence used to him on that occasion? - None at all; the clothes he pulled off were regimentals, the serjeant took them back again for they were his property; they were Sir Thomas Dunlap 's cloathing, red jacket, white waistcoat and breeches, but Colonel Robinson, in whose corpse he was enlisted, was blue cloathing.
Q. Did you see him while he was in that house frequently? - I saw him every day, I always see them every day to give them their pay.
Q. What pay do you give them? - Sixpence per day.
Q. Do you know what bounty money he had? - Five guineas; two guineas before he was attested, and three guineas after he was attested.
Q. Now in what part of the house did you see him during the time he was there? - In all parts of the house.
Q. Was he then, on the oath you have taken, confined to any one room of the house, or locked up in any one room of the house? - Certainly not, he would have been out every day with the party, with the drums and fifes, but he was gen
Prisoner. I could not go out, I was a wounded man.
Mr. Knowlys. Had you any occasion to see him eat or drink the time he was in the house? - I see him drink frequently at the bar, I see him drink gin myself several times.
Q. Is that true that he was confined to live on bread and water? - He spent all his five guineas, while he was in the house he had every thing that he wished for.
Q. Did he ever make any complaint to you of his having been robbed in that house, either of clothes, watch, money, or any thing? - He never made any complaint at all.
Q. In your presence did Kerr, or any other persons, strip and rob him? - They could not strip and rob him, for he had no such property as he said he had lost, when he came into the house he had neither watch nor buckles, nothing but regimentals.
Q. Did you rob him of any thing? - Never in my life.
Q. Did you go with him to be attested? - No, I did not, Watson was the man that went with him to be attested.
Q. I ask you on the oath you have taken, was this man as free as others, or was he confined and robbed? - He was was not at all ill treated nor robbed.
Q. Did he ever make any complaint to your knowledge? - Never.
Q. Do you know what time it was he came into the house, what day of the month? - It was the latter end of June, or beginning of July, I cannot say which positively.
Q. How long after that time was it that any complaint was made against you or any application to a magistrate? - It was some time after he wen to Banbury, I believe about a month after he left the house; in short, I was not taken up as all, I went to vindicate Mr. Kerr's character, he was asked if he knew any man but Kerr, and he said then that I was one of them.
Mr. Knapp. You stated to us that you are an army agent; that is, in other terms, you are to collect as many recruits as you can, and bring them to Whitcomb-street? - No, they are brought there by the serjeant.
Q. And the evidence that sounded that accusation against you was as false as that you say now is true? - Barrett's evidence is false.
Q. He had no watch about him or buckles? - He had nothing when he came into the house.
Q. There were no recruits in the house all confined to one room? - No, they were not confined.
Q. All in one room? - No, in different parts of the house.
Q. Then there was not a room set apart for recruits? - Not a room particularly set apart, they had the liberty of the whole house; the dining room was set apart particularly for their use.
Q. Do they go up stairs, or do they not, when they come in? Is there a room set apart merely for the recruits, or is the whole house free for them to use? - It is.
Q. He came in a volunteer, nobody with him? - The serjeant came in with him.
Q. He came guarded with a serjeant? - He would not have known where to come to if the serjeant had not come with him; he came in with the serjeant as all other recruits did, to be examined by the surgeon and adjutant.
Mr. Knowlys. There was a room
Court. Was he at all dragged up stairs by a rope? - Not at all.
Q. Was you a servant in Mr. Kerr's house, Whitcomb-street? - Yes.
Q. Do you know the man at the bar? - Yes, very well.
Q. Do you remember his being there? - Yes, I remember the day he came, but I did not see him come in.
Q. What did he eat or drink while he was there? - He would not eat, he was mostly drinking gin.
Q. Was he prohibited from drinking spirits, if he was so inclined? - Sometimes he was, and begged to eat victuals.
Q. Why did they prohibit him from drinking spirits? - Because he drank too much liquor.
Q. Is it true that he was kept on bread and water? - Never.
Q. Was he at all confined in the house, or locked up from other people? - Never.
Q. Did you ever hear him complain of being robbed, or ill treated at all by any body? - I never did.
Q. Did you see him go up stairs when he went to the surgeon to be examined? - No.
Mr. Knapp. You were servant to Mr. Kerr at this time? - Yes.
Q. Have you the good fortune to be Mr. Kerr's servant now? - No, I am Mr. Hamlin's servant now.
Q. How long have you left Mr. Kerr? - Going on these five months.
Q. Have you often seen him since that? - Yes.
Q. Have you never had conversation on this business, frequently? - Only when I am wanted here.
Q. Then at the time you have been wanted here, have you not had conversations about it? You was not there the first day when he was brought in? - Yes, I was there, I was in the kitchen.
Q. So he would not eat? - No.
Q. Why he was pretty drunk all the time that you see him? - Yes, mostly.
Q. Generally drunk? - Yes, he was.
Q. This is the second indictment preferred against the prisoner? - Yes.
ABRAHAM CHIPINGDALE sworn.
I am a carpenter.
Q. I believe you are father-in-law to Ruggles? - Yes.
Q. Were you often in Kerr's house, Whitcomb-street? - Yes, very frequently, two or three times a week, four or five times sometimes.
Q. Do you remember seeing that man there? - Yes.
Q. Was you there when he came into the house? - Yes, I see him and another recruit, and a recruiting serjeant, come in together.
Q. Did he come in by force, or voluntarily? - He walked in the same as the rest; he asked for a noggin of whisky as soon as he came in. I went there to get my dinner, and I left him in the taproom; I went there the same evening, and I found him in the tap-room again, he had got some gin and water.
Q. Do you recollect the day? - It was
Q. Did you see him more than that day? - Yes, I see him two or three days after that.
Q. Was he to any thing that you could see or judge, as much at liberty as any other person in the house? - Just the same as any other recruit.
Q. How often might you see him in the fortnight? - I see him about four or five times that week; I do not recollect ever seeing him after.
Mr. Knapp. You tell us that you are Ruggles's father-in-law, and that you are a carpenter? - Yes.
Mr. Knowlys. Did you ever hear him the time you were there, make the least complaint of ill usage of any sort? - Never a word.
Mr. Knapp. Pray are you in the service at all? - Yes, I am in the recruiting line, but since then I have done with the came my business, I was lame.
Q. You heard of Ruggles being tried? - Yes, I know it, but I did not hear the trial,
Court. Were you in the service before? - Yes, I have been in the light horse, but I left that about eight and twenty years ago.
Q. Then you observed the prisoner when he came in? - I remember him as well as I remember him now, for he was very much in liquor when he first came in.
Q. I believe you are a jew? - Yes.
Q. A dealer of clothes? - Yes.
Q. Do you know Barrett? - Yes, that is the man.
Q. Did you ever see Barrett, and have any dealings with him? - Never but once, at the Swan and Anchor, East Smithfield, Butcher-row.
Q. Was that a recruiting house? - Yes.
Q. How came you to see him there? - I was fetched there to buy some clothes, by the man of the house, Higginbottom. It was either the latter end of June or the beginning of July, I will not be certain which.
Q. Tell us what past between you and Barrett? - I came in there, and Barrett brings out a bundle from under the table.
Q. How was he dressed? - In a red jacket and trowsers, regimental uniforms; he asked me if I would buy them? there was a brown pea jacket, and a pursers shirt, a check shirt, and an old pair of shoes, and an old dark blue jack, such as sallors wear; he asked me half a guinea. for them; I told him I could not give half a guinea for them, there were only two articles I would take away with me; and I gave him six shillings and sixpence for them, and half a pint of gin, he would not let me have them without I gave him the half pint of gin.
Q. Did you observe whether he had any watch at that time? - He asked me if I would sell him one, if I would take the trouble of going with him to the other end of the town, he would pay me for it? I told him it was not worth my while to go with him; I did not sell him the watch.
Q. I believe you never see him in Whitcomn-street? - I never see him after, till I came here.
Mr. Knapp. You say that you never see him before? - Not before.
Q. Have you ever been a witness be
Q. Pretty near this place? - Within twenty or thirty yards.
Q. Whether this man had a watch or no you cannot say? - I cannot, but he asked me if I would sell him one.
Mr. Knowlys. My friend asked you whether you ever saw this man before. Had you an opportunity to observe his person? - I was in the room with him about an hour.
Q. Did you observe any other part of his dress? - He had on a red jacket, and a pair of muscato trowsers.
Q. Did you observe his shoes? - He had a pair of regimental shoes, and he offered the old ones.
Q. Had he buckles in them? - He had strings in them, and he was going to pull them out of the old one to put in the new ones; I told him he had no occasion to pull them out, they were not worth taking away, I left all but the jacket and shirt, they were not worth taking away.
Q. I believe you are the person employed in the police office, Queen-square? - I am.
Q. Do you act as clerk there? - I do.
Q. Do you remember any person of the name of Barrett being brought to the office to be attested as a recruit? - I do.
Q. Did you make the entry yourself? - I did.
Q. Was that person attested? - That Edward Barrett was attested, I believe it was by Mr. Serjeant Kirby.
Court. What is the date of it? - 7th of July. (The attestation shewn him.) There is part of my hand writing in this attestation, I did not witness it.
Q. Was he a person as far as you could judge of his state of mind, intoxicated or not? - If a person is in liquor the magistrates in general send them back, and if I perceive it I always turn them back.(The attestation read.)
Court. Do you recollect the person of the man at all? - I have not the least doubt that he is the man, but I cannot swear positively, as far as my belief can go, I believe he is the man.
Mr. Knapp. You say as far as belief will go, you will swear to him; I suppose that there are a great number of recruits attested before Mr. Serjeant Kirby? - A great number.
Q. Do you mean to say that this man attracted your attention more than any other? - Yes, he talked very wild, telling a story about meeting some lady
Q. Did you believe him to be sober though he talked so wild? - Yes, I did.
Mr. SERJEANT KIRBY sworn.
Q. You are one of the magistrates attending the police office, Westminster? - I am.
Q. Do you recollect a person of the name of Barrett being brought before you to be attested? - No, I do not recollect him.
Q. Be so good as to look at this attestation? - This is my attestation, and it does appear that such a man did come before me, and if he had had the least appearance of inebriety I should not have attested him.
Q. Are you able to form a judgment to a certainty, that you examined this
Q. Have you any recollection of the person of the man? - Not the least on earth; but I have great reason to believe this to be the man, there was a man according to my recollection, that I conceived was concealing the truth, and that he belonged to his majesty's navy; and if he did I certainly should not have sworn him in; therefore I examined him very strictly; and I remember a man's telling a story of his coming to town, his landing at Deal, his going into the Hospital for three days or thereabouts; I asked him how he got money to come to London? he told all that story when he came here at the last session; and there are a great number of the other circumstances that I do remember being related by a recruit that I did attest, and I do remember this circumstance to have happened but to one man.
Mr. Knapp addressed the jury on the part of the defendant.
Prisoner. I have been serving his majesty ever since I was seven years old, and for the honour of God send me back again.
GUILTY . (Aged 35.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.
THOMAS THOMAS , AS delivered by Mr. Justice ASHURST.
THOMAS THOMAS , you have been indicted and found guilty of stealing a letter out of the letter box; the Court were of opinion, as to this case, the conviction is a bad one; in as-much as in the indictment it was laid as done in the County of Middlesex; and from the evidence in the case it did not appear it was done in the County of Middlesex: and as all offences must be tried in the proper County where they are committed, therefore they think the conviction was bad, and you are cleared of that indictment .
JOHN WATSON , As delivered by Mr. Justice ASHURST.
It will be unnecessary for me to go through this case, as all the circumstances have been gone through in the trial of Peter's, this session, and the circumstances are all exactly the same, the only doubt that was made in that case was, whether this was a felony, or whether it was only a fraud. Now that case is different from in this one respect, because that was laid for stealing out of a dwelling house, this is only for a common larceny. On this case the court has determined he is guilty of felony, but not in the dwelling house, and therefore that he is well convicted. In the present case this is only to inform you what the opinion of the court has been; namely, that under all the circumstances of the case, you are well convicted, for as to the law on the subject, in regard to the felony, there can be no doubt at all about that; because here the party, who is the owner of the goods, had never parted with the property, but with the possession, for that particular purpose, which purpose was never fulfilled, and it is plain that they got possession of the property under a promise to return it, and making the woman so to believe, when it is evident that they meant to purloin it, and convert it to their own use; and persons who come by property in that kind of way, it is now universally allowed that in law, it amounts to a felony, and not to a fraud.
Transported for seven years .
James Runnings , otherwise Pendegrast, Ann Darrington , Pbineabas Jacobs, and Lazarus Lazarus, AS delivered by Mr. Justice ASHURST.
JAMES RUNNINGS , otherwise PENDERGRAST , ANN DOR-RINGTON , PHINEAHAS JACOBS , and LAZARUS LAZARUS , I am commissioned by the rest of the judges to give their opinion on your several cases, which, though they are four in number, are the same in circumstances; and I must state first to you, James Runnings, that the indictment against you was for uttering nine counterfeit pieces of money and coin, each, and every of them counterfeited to the likeness of the milled money, and silver coin of a good shilling; and thirty-three pieces of false counterfeit milled money and coin, to the likeness of a good sixpence, the same not being cut in pieces, unlawfully and feloniously did put off to one Isaac Page, at a lower rate and value than the said counterfeit and milled money did import to be for, that is to say, for half a guinea The crime of knowingly putting off counterfeit shillings was fully proved, and Armstrong proved that the money was bad, but he could not discern that the money had any milling on, but that the appearance was of worn shillings and sixpences; Mr. Knowlys, the counsel for the prisoner, objected, that the avetment in the indictment was not sustained, and quoted the act of Parliament, which enacts, that if any person knowingly putteth off counterfeit milled money at a lower rate than it imports in the form and likeness of good and legal money of this realm, he shall be guilty of felony; and says Mr. Knowlys, the evidence has not proved it to have any milling on it, and on the contrary, Armstrong, a witness for the crown, has expressly sworn that there was no appearance of milling on the money.
Mr. Shelton stated that this was the usual way of laying indictments in all similar cases; the judges were all of opinion that the parts of the indictment were all well connected, and that the appellation of milled money has no referrence to its having the edging on it or not, now this will fully appear if one has recourse to the definition of coining, in Chamber's Dictonary and the description of the several circumstances attending the process there laid down.
Coining says he, it either performed by the hammer or the mill, the first method is not now used in Europe, especially in England and France, though the only one known till the year 1553, when a new machine or coining mill was invented by an engraver. One Antoine Brucher was the first who tried it in the King's palace at Paris, for the coining of counters, &c. (And then he goes on describing the various parts of coining.)
From whence it is plain that the operation of milling is a different thing from the edging, it is milled money before it is edged money, therefore these marks on the edge are not property attributed to a description of this kind, in fact, it was milled money before these marks were put on it, therefore the description of milled money is perfectly right, because the milling must be performed before it is edged, therefore the judges are all of opinion that the indictment was rightly laid, consequently the prisoner rightly convicted , and as all the cases are similar, it will affect all the four prisoners, who are to receive judgment accordingly.
Each to be Imprisoned one year in Newgate , and fined 1s .