Old Bailey Proceedings, 8th December 1794.
Reference Number: 17941208
Reference Number: f17941208-1

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE KING's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery for the CITY Of LONDON; AND ALSO The Gaol Delivery for the County of Middlesex; HELD AT JUSTICE HALL in the OLD BAILEY, By Adjournment from September last; On Monday the 8th of December 1794, and the following Days; Being the FIRST SESSION in the Mayoralty of The Right Hon. THOMAS SKINNER, Esq. LORD MAYOR OF THE CITY OF LONDON.

TAKEN IN SHORT-HAND BY MANOAH SIBLY , PROFESSOR OF SHORT-HAND, No. 35, Goswell-Street, And Published by Authority.

NUMBER I. PART I.

LONDON: Printed and published by HENRY FENWICK , No. 63, Snow Hill. Price TWO SHILLINGS.

THE WHOLE PROCEEDINGS ON THE KING's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery for the CITY of LONDON, & c.

BEFORE the Right Honourable THOMAS SKINNER , Esq. LORD MAYOR of the City London: The Honourable Sir RICHARD PERRYN , Knt. one of the Barons of His Majesty's Court of Exchequer: Sir NASH GROSE, Knt. one of the Justices of His Majesty's Court of King's Bench: Sir JOHN WILLIAM ROSE , Knt. Serjeant at Law, Recorder of the said City; JOHN SILVESTER , Esq. Common Serjeant at Law of the said City; and others His Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer of the CITY of LONDON, and Justices of Gaol Delivery of NEWGATE, holden for the said City and County of MIDDLESEX.

London Jury.

Joseph Hand

George Hacket

James Elworthy

John Deslins

John Gray

William Adams

John Munday

John Garner

Peter Alexander

Joseph Pugh

Giles Howell

John Paley

First Middlesex Jury.

Francis Jones

George Martin

Joshua Owan

George Mitchell

Francis Walters

Thomas Lyne

William Wheatley

Joseph Truck

Clements Watts

John Hurley

John Stone

Thomas Stafford

Second Middlesex Jury.

William Frazier

Thomas Poole

Joseph Grace

George Sanders

John Tate

John Shippey

Samuel Sutton

William Shieids

John Edgar

Sampson Marks

Thomas Cockayne

Joseph Crew .

Matthew Slater and William Calcott served part of the time for Peter Alexander .

Reference Number: t17941208-1

1. JOHN WATSON was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 27th of August , in the parish of Mary-le-bone, in the dwelling house of John Smith , two bank notes of the value of ten pounds each, two ditto, of the value of twenty pounds each, one of the value of twenty-five pounds, and one of the value of fifteen pounds, the property of the said John Smith .

MARY SMITH sworn.

I am John Smith 's wife.

Q. Was your husband possessed of any property in bank notes? - I had a hundred pounds, bank notes which was in the house, which was the property of my husband.

Q. Can you describe them? - My daughter will do that.

Q. Did you at any time lose these bank notes out of the house? - The prisoner at the bar took them off my table in the parlour.

Q. Was the prisoner your servant? - No, he was no servant of mine.

Q. How came they to be on the table? - When this happened he came to my house in Mortimer-street .

Q. What day was it the prisoner came to your house? - My daughter can say, I cannot say myself what time it was, it was about half after three in the afternoon, in the summer time.

Q. Was it in the month of August? - I believe it was.

Q. What was the occasion that brought the prisoner to your house? - I was going down Parliament-street this day, and I saw a small parcel lay that was lapped up in brown parcel, and I was going to stoop for it, and the prisoner stooped before me, and he said he had picked up a prize.

Q. Had you any acquaintance with the prisoner before this time? - No, I had not, I said halves to the prisoner at the bar; the prisoner asked me whether it was a usual thing to give half of a thing that was found? I told him I had heard say so that it was.

Q. What past afterwards? - The prisoner went through Whitehall, into the Park, and there he met with an elderly gentleman.

Q. Did you go with the prisoner? - Yes; he asked of this good old gentleman, as he called him, which he met, where the King's jeweller lived; and he shewed him the great prize, and the old gentleman says, a prize indeed! you should keep it to yourselves; the King's jeweller lives in Bond-street; then we went on till we came to a chair in the Park, where we all three of us sat down.

Q. Did the old gentleman appear to be an acquaintance of the prisoner's, or a stranger? - I believe he was an acquaintance of the prisoner's.

Q. What past while you were sitting down? - While we were sitting there,

the prisoner at the bar said he was a captain of a ship, and his name was Thomas Smith ; he said he would go to his friend's house where his cargo was, and he would fetch a hundred pounds.

Q. What was he to fetch this hundred pounds for? - Towards paying for that prize, till the morrow morning.

Q. Was it your share he was to pay for? - Yes, my share.

Q. And he went to his friend's house as he said? - Yes.(Produces a pocket book inclosing a trinket.)

Q. Is this the trinket that was enclosed in the brown paper? - Yes, and this pocket book likewise; he came back from his friend's house as he said, the old gentleman, and I sat in the chair till he came back.

Q. Did he leave these articles in your possession, or did he carry them away with him? - The old gentleman kept them.

Q. How long was he absent? - He was gone I believe about fifteen minutes; when he came back, he said his friend was not at home, he said, as I understood him, that he was gone to Richmond, and he would return in the morning; then we went on, and went out of the Park, but I don't know which way, till we came into Bond-street, all three of us.

Q. Where is your house? - No. 20, in Mortimer-street; when we came into Bond-street, I said, this is Bond-street, and that the King's jeweller lived there; the prisoner at the bar said, hush, never mind; then we went from there to my own house in Mortimer-street; but before we came to my house, at the top of Bond-street, we turned on the left hand side, and went into a public house, all three of us, they called for a pint of porter, and drank, and they asked me if I would drink any thing; I said I would drink a glass of cider, if they had any there, they had no cider and I drank a glass of wine.

Q. Was there any thing more passed? - No, nothing passed; then we went to my house, when we came to the door they asked me who I had in the house? I said my daughter, nobody that would hurt them, when we went in I took my daughter up with me and looked out the hundred pounds in notes.

Q. What was the first thing you did when you went into the house? - I spoke to my daughter.

Q. Into what room did you all go? Where did you shew these men to? - Into the parlour.

Q. Had you any conversation with the men at the time? - No further than something about this money.

Q. Mention what you said about this money? - They had made this agreement before I came home, about this hundred pounds.

Q. When was that made? - Before got home, in the Park.

Q. What was the agreement? - When I came in I spoke to my daughter.

Q. Mention how the agreement was made in the Park? - For a hundred pounds, for this thing till on the morrow morning, when he should receive his property when his cargo was lodged.

Q. You was to pay him a hundred pounds, and to have that thing till the morning? - Yes.

Q. Then I understand you that that hundred pounds was to be paid as a deposit for the security of the trinket, for your delivering this thing again? - Yes, it was.

Q. Then the hundred pounds was only in the nature of a deposit, not in the nature of a purchase? - The hundred pounds was security for that thing, till on the morrow morning, when I was to have my one half of the value, and my hundred pounds back again.

Q. What value do you mean? - One half of the value of this note; I was to have one hundred and twenty-five pounds besides my own hundred.

Q. What do you mean, one half of the value of that that was expressed? - That which the note expressed.

Q. At present we know nothing at all about a note. When did you see any note first? - I saw the note, he shewed me the note out of the pocket book when he picked it up.(A Note shewn her, found with the trinket in the pocket book.)

Q. Do you know, or any body else, whether that note is the note? - That is the note.

Q. How came that to be left in your hands? - That was left in my hands when the hundred pounds was given him.

Q. Was this note read to you at all before you agreed for the hundred pounds? - The prisoner shewed it me, and read it in the Park.

Q. Did he read the whole of it? - I believe so.(The bill read by the clerk of the court.)

London, August 15th, 1794. Bought of Thomas Smith , goldsmith and jeweller; one brilliant diamond locket, value two hundred and fifty pounds; at the same time the contents in full by me Thomas Smith , received two hundred and fifty pounds.

Q. When you came to your house they made an enquiry at the outside what persons were in the house; and when you told them you had only your daughter in your house they went in with you, and you introduced them into the parlour? - Yes.

Q. When they came into the parlour with you and your daughter, what past between you and the prisoner? Did you tell your daughter to fetch you any money? - I went up with my daughter to look out my notes and she looked out the notes, and I brought them down and put them on the table in the parlour, and the prisoner took them up.

Q. Can you mention the particulars of these notes? How many were there? - My daughter is here, if you please to let her come she will mention the notes, I cannot myself.

Q. Did your daughter come down with you? - Yes, and she stood on the stairs, and see me lay the notes down, and see the prisoner take the notes up.

Q. How long were the notes on the table before the prisoner took them up? - I don't think they were on the table above a minute.

Q. Can you tell in general what the amount of them were? - Let my daughter come and she will tell.

Q. Do you know the amount of them? - The amount of the notes were one hundred pounds.

Q. What did the prisoner do with the notes? - I cannot tell.

Q. Did he put them in his pocket when he took them from the table? - I cannot tell that.

Q. Did he stay in the room? - He staid in the room and drank a glass of brandy in the room, and then he went out, and he asked me -

Q. Did he take the notes with him? - Yes, he took them with him.

Q. How long did he stay in the room, after he had possessed himself of them? - He staid in the room about two minutes; when he was going out he asked me what time my husband breakfasted in the morning? I told him at eight o'clock.

Q. Did he promise to come the next morning to settle all this business? - Yes, he was to come and settle it all at nine the next morning.

Q. When you laid the notes on the table, did you say any thing to him? - I said there were the notes, and he took them up, and said they were very right.

Q. Did any thing further pass? - Nothing more.

Q. Did the other gentleman, the old gentleman, do any thing while this transaction was going forward? - This old gentleman told me what a fine thing it was, this great prize.

Q. Where was this? - In the park.

Q. Did the old gentleman interfere in this transaction when he was in the house? - No, he did not meddle with the notes.

Q. Did he say any thing? - No.

Q. When these notes were laid on the table, and the prisoner took them, who had this prize, and the pocket book? - They delivered these to me, when they took the notes.

Q. Then after it was in your possession, and the prisoner had gone off, did you go to any body to learn or consult about the value of this prize? - My son did, after he came home.

Q. And what was the information you received from your son? - Before my son came home, my daughter asked me to look at it, she said she had never seen a diamond, and she thought it looked common. My son is a painter and glazier, he took his diamond that he cuts the glass with, out of his pocket, and he tried these diamonds with the diamond he had about him.

Q. Is your son here? - No. Then he went down with it to a silversmith.

Q. Did you go with him? - No.

Q. Did the prisoner at the bar come the next morning? - No, he never came.

Q. What did you on the prisoner's not coming according to appointment? - I did the best I could, I have fretted myself till I am not able scarcely to stand on my legs.

Q. Look about, and see if you can find him? When did you next see the prisoner, after he had been at your house? - When he was brought to me in a coach; I believe it was a fortnight before they took him; my son went down to Bow-street, Covent-garden.

Q. Look behind you, and see whether you can find out a person who found this prize in Parliament-street? - Yes, it was the prisoner at the bar.

Q. Are you sure that is the person? - Yes, I am sure.

Q. Had you ever seen this man before? - No, not till I see him that day with this woeful thing.

Q. You was a good while in his company, so as to make observations enough on his person, so that you can swear positively that he is the man? - Yes.

Q. Do you know any thing further? - Nothing further than when he was brought before me.

Q. Have you ever got the notes back again? - No, I have not got the notes back.

Mr. Knowlys. Mrs. Smith, I believe you was the first person that spoke; you spoke to the prisoner before he spoke to you, did not you? - No, the prisoner spoke to me first.

Q. I thought you said when the prisoner took up the prize, you called out halves? - He said, he had found a prize, he throwed away the brown paper, and produced this pocket book, and then I said, halves.

Q. And this led to all this further conversation about it? When these notes were brought down, and laid on the table, he took them, in consequence of a previous agreement that he should take them? - Yes, that he should have a hundred pounds till on the morrow.

Q. So you gave a full consent for him to have these notes? - I put them on the table, and he took them up.

Q. Providing he left that locket you had no objection to his taking them? - He left that locket till the next morning, till I had my hundred pounds, and a hundred and twenty-five pounds, that I was to receive.

Q. And on that promise you let him have the notes? - Yes.

Q. But he did not call the next morning? - No, he did not.

Q. I dare say you don't know the value of any of those notes? - They amounted to a hundred pounds altogether.

Q. But you cannot specify what was the value of the identical notes? - Altogether they were this hundred pounds.

MARY SMITH , the younger, sworn.

Q. You are the daughter of the last witness? - Yes.

Q. In August last did your mother come with any persons to your house? - Yes, the 27th of August she came with two persons.

Q. Look at the prisoner, was he one of them? - I cannot say; I did not look at them, I remember two men coming, but I don't know who they were.

Q. What time of the day was it? - About four o'clock in the afternoon.

Q. You was alone in the house then? - Yes, no one else.

Q. What passed between you and your mother when they came into the house? - My mother came down to me and said, Mary come up, for I want you, I went up stairs with my mother, and she desired me to look out a hundred pounds.

Q. Did you look out a hundred pounds? - I did.

Q. In money or in notes? - Bank notes.

Q. Do you recollect the identical notes? - I know to the quantity of notes, but not to the number of them, there were two tens, two twenties, one twenty-five, and one fifteen; six in the whole.

Q. What did you do with these notes? - I gave them to my mother, and she took them down to the men, and put them on the table, for them to take.

Q. Did you see what your mother did with them? - I did not, no otherwise than what I have mentioned.

Q. Did you see either of the men take these notes from the table? - No, I did not see either of the men take them off from the table; my mother told me I might hear what they said, and so I did, I stood on the stairs. When my mother went down to take the notes, they desired my mother to shut the parlour door; she said she would not; then they asked my mother if there was any body that would hear their discourse? and my mother said no, nobody in particular; with that they asked my mother what time my father would come home to breakfast; they made my mother promise for nobody to see the note that was in the pocket book, till the next morning; they asked if they could not put it in some place of safety till the next morning, my mother brought the tea chest to put it in, and gave them the key of the tea chest to lock it again.

Q. What did you understand by the note? These bank notes amounting to the hundred pounds, or did you conceive that these notes was any thing else? - I did not know then, my father being in business, and I don't know what it might be.

Q. Was that tea chest which your mother brought down, left in the house? - Yes.

Q. When it was opened did it contain anything? - Nothing in short, but tea and sugar, except this pocket book, containing the trinket; I did not see it open till after they were gone, I asked my mother to let me see it; and she had said she had promised that she would not, and she was very dubious to forfeit her word; and I asked her to let me have

the key of the tea chest, and she agreed to it, and I unlocked the tea chest, and when I see the locket, I said to my mother that I had never saw a diamond, but I thought it looked very common; when my brother came home, he said it was nothing but paste stone; with that I went with my brother to a silversmith, and he said, it was not worth more than five shillings and six-pence.

JOHN SMITH sworn.

It was my property that was taken away, I know nothing of the transaction.

Prisoner. I know nothing of the old gentlewoman at all, I never remember seeing her till I was taken; I had some witnesses to call, I beg your lordship to put off this till the afternoon.

Mr. Knowlys contended that in this case the prisoner had not been guilty of any felony, because the woman had parted with her property freely, and with her own consent, and she had delivered to the men an hundred pounds, which they were to redeliver to her, on their coming to claim this jewel; and it appeared to him, that the terms on which this money was to be delivered to her was never executed, and she had parted with it voluntarily on her own part.

Mr. Baron Perryn observed that she certainly parted with it voluntarily, for the purpose of having it restored to her the next day; but the question was, whether the commencement of this transaction was not when the brown paper was picked up; whether from that period they had an intention to rob her.

Mr. Knowlys observed that the terms on which this was to be returned to her, was on their coming to demand that jewel.

Mr. justice Grose observed that it appeared to him, she had never parted with the property, but put it as a deposit; and then the question was, whether it was not all a trick to rob her.

It was finally agreed to refer the case to the opinion of the judges, if the jury should find the prisoner guilty of the fact.

The prisoner called one witness to his character.

Q. To Smith. Have you made any enquiry with respect to this jewel? - It is valued at five shillings and six-pence, by a silversmith and jeweller that looked at it.

GUILTY,

Of the felony, but not in the dwelling house. (Aged 38.)

Judgment respited .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-2

2. JOHN WATSON was again indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 20th of August , a watch, value 3l. a steel chain, value 2d. nine guineas and a half; the goods and monies of Margaret Herne , in the dwelling house of John Jones .

The court were informed that Margaret Herne , the prosecutrix, was dead. ACQUITTED .

Reference Number: t17941208-3

3. WILLIAM BALL was indicted for that he, on the 10th of September , feloniously did falsly make, forge and counterfeit, and did cause to be falsly made, forged and counterfeited, and did willingly act and assist, in falsely making, forging and counterfeiting a certain paper writing, purporting to be a promissory note, for the payment of money, with the name of J. Watman and Co. thereto subscribed, purporting to be drawn by J. Watman and Co. at Stockton, on Tees, dated the 4th of August 1793, for the

payment of five guineas to John Pieres, Esq. or bearer on demand, at Stockton on Tees, or to Messrs. Martin, Stone, Foot, and Porter, value received ; the tenor of which false, forged and counterfeit note, is as follows.

No. 599, Stockton on Tees.

I promise to pay to John Pieres , Esq. or bearer, five guineas on demand, here or at Messrs. Martin, Stone, Foot, and Porter, banker s, London, value received, five guineas.

J. Watman and Co. entred 77. J. Rice. with intention to defraud George Robinson .

Indicted in a second COUNT, for uttering the said note, with the same intention.

In a third and fourth COUNTS for forging and uttering the said note, with intention to defraud Richard Stone , Esq . John Foot , Esq . and James Porter , Esq .

In a fifth and sixth COUNTS, for forging and uttering the said note, with intention to defraud James Martin , Esq . George Stone , Esq . Richard Stone , Esq. and John Foot, Esq.(The indictment opened by Mr. Knapp, and the case by Mr. Const.)

GEORGE ROBINSON sworn.

Mr. Knowlys. This is a person that is alledged on one of the counts to be defrauded he cannot be a witness on this indictment.

Court. He is a person to whom this was offered, he has no interest in it; it would be a different case if Mr. Watman was to be called and say it was his hand writing, because he would then be liable to pay five guineas, but you never knew a case of this sort, where a man stands in this way, was never objected to.

Mr. Knowlys to Robinson. Pray have you indorsed this note? - No, I went to get it changed.

Mr. Knapp to Robinson. You are a publican I understand and live at Ratcliffelare, in St. Luke's parish ? - Yes.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember his coming to you at any time, and when? - He came on the 10th of September last, between the hours of eleven and twelve; he came to my house and ordered a pot of beer, he asked my wife if she could change him a five guinea note? I was present, I made answer I did not believe there was cash enough, I was not willing for her to change; then my wife looked at it and said it was a very good one, and he said so too; and there were three pints of beer owing for, and a pot to go home, then my wife said, there was cash; and she went and fetched him five guineas, and after that he changed one guinea.

Q. What did she do with the five guineas? - She gave him the five guineas, and he gave her the note for five guineas.

Q. What became of the note? - He changed a guinea, and payed me for five pints, and a pot to go home after he was gone out, and a glass of gin.

Q. What became of the note? - I went and took the pot of beer, and I said to my wife, I do not much like the note, but I will take the pot of beer; as soon as I came back from taking the pot of beer to his lodgings, I shewed the note to a neighbour, I cannot read nor write myself, and he said, he did not like it.

Court. We must not hear what any body else said.

Witness. I went immediately to the Bank of England; it said four partners

on the bill, but it did not say where they lived, I enquired of one Mr. Pearce, clerk of the bank, and he told me to go to No. 18, Change-alley, to get the money for it, I went there.

Q. What house did you go to there? - I do not recollect the name of the bankers, but it was No. 18, Change-alley, where I went to get the money.

Q. Should you know the note again? - Yes, I should know it again, I marked a cross on it.

Mr. Knapp to Armstrong. Have you got that note? - Yes.

Q. Produce it.

Court to Robinson. Tell us whether the note was paid at the bankers? - No, they told me it was a forged one.

Mr. Knapp. Now look at that note, is that the same note you took of the prisoner? - To the best of my knowledge it is, that is the mark I made, to the best of my knowledge.

Mr. Knowlys. Can you swear that is the mark you made? - To the best of my knowledge it is, because I cannot read not write.

Q. Can you be positive, so as to swear that that is the note you received? - Yes, it is, to the best of my knowledge.

Mr. Knapp. Why do you think that is the same note? - By the mark I made.

Q. Was the same note that you received from your wife the same note that you gave to Armstrong? - It was the very same, I had no other in my possession.

Mr. Knowlys. The prisoner at the bar was known to you as a customer to you in the house? - He had lived about five days in the neighbourhood as a ready furnished lodger, he lived at Mr. Dugard's.

Q. He had used your house? - He has come there of a night to have beer.

Court. You say you knew the prisoner five days only? - Only five days.

Q. When did you apprehend him? - He was apprehended about an hour after; I went immediately to the bankers.

ANN ROBINSON sworn.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.

Q. You are the wife of the last witness? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember seeing him in September last? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember his coming to your house, and offering you any note? - Yes.

Q. Should you know that again if you saw it? - Yes, I read it several times.

Q. Did he give you the note? - Yes.

Q. Look at that note and see if that is the same note? - I read it over two or three times, it was Stockton on Tees.

Q. Did you observe any mark on the face of it or the back of it? - On the back of it I wrote my name myself.

Q. Then from that you are able to say this is the same note that the prisoner gave you? - Yes, it is.

Mr. Knowlys. This prisoner you knew him? - Perfectly well.

Q. You could not be mistaken as to his person? You had known him some time? - No, only five days before, he came on Saturday for the first time.

Court. What day in the week was this that this happened? - Wednesday.

Mr. Knowlys. You know where he lodged? - Yes.

Q. You carried beer there? - We served him from the time that he came.

Q. Therefore he could not come to a place where his person was better known? - No.

BENJAMIN WILSON sworn.

Q. You took the prisoner into custody? - Yes.

Q. Do you know any thing more? - Nothing more.

Q. When did you take him? - Mr. Robinson called upon me, the 10th of September, to go to apprehend Mr. Ball, and I went with him to his lodgings, and Mr. Ball was in the passage, and I took him and conveyed him down to Worship-street, and delivered him to Mr. Armstrong, it was on Wednesday.

JOHN ARMSTRONG sworn.

Q. Do you remember the last witness bringing this prisoner with Mr. Robinson? - Yes, and they gave me charge. I told Mr. Robinson to mark that note; he did mark it; I searched the prisoner and found two pounds eight shillings in money; and I found a bank note for ten guineas, a Birmingham note, and I found a duplicate that belonged either to himself or some other, and this bit of loose paper, with some writing on it; I went afterwards with Harper, and searched his lodgings but found nothing further.

Prisoner. That note was marked before the magistrate, it might be in the presence of Mr. Armstrong, but it was not in the house where he mentioned it.

Court to Armstrong. How was this? - Mrs. Robinson marked her name at the office on the examination, and Mr. Robinson marked it in the parlour, the first time I saw the prisoner.

Mr. MARTIN sworn.

Mr. Knowlys. Are you not interested in this house of Messrs. Martin, Stone, Foot, and Porter? - My father is a partner.

Q. Have you no share in the business at all? - No.

Mr. Knapp. Will you be kind enough to tell us what the firm of this banking house was in September last? - James Martin , Richard Stone , George Stone , and John Foot .

Q. What is the firm now at this present time? - The same.

Q. What was it before that time? - Martin, Stones, Foot, and Porter.

Q. Mr. Porter is not now of that house? - No.

Court. The firm at the date of the note was as you mentioned first? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. Tell us what was the firm of the house the 4th of August, 1794? - James Martin , Richard Stone, George Stone , and John Foot.

Q. Before that time Mr. Porter was in the house? - Yes.

Q. What was his christian name? - James.

Court. As he mentioned it before? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. Do you know such a person as Mr. Watman? - No.

Q. How long have you been in this banking house yourself? - Upwards of a year and a half.

Q. During that time has a person of the name of Watman kept cash in your house? - Not to my knowledge.

Q. Did you issue five guinea bills from your house? - No.

Q. Nor are they made payable? - No, it is the common consent of the partners to have no such notes made payable at the house.

Q. Have you any connection with any house at Stockton on Tees? - No, none at all.(The note read by the clerk of the court.)

"No. 599, Stockton on Tees, 5l. 5s. I promise to pay to J. Pieres, Es. Stockton on Tees, or bearer, five guineas on demand, here or at Messrs. Marun, Stone, Foot, and Porter, bankers, London, value

received 4th of August 1793. J. Watman and Co. five guineas, entered 77.

J. Rice.

Mr. Knapp. What is the number of your house, and where is it situated? - No. 18, Change-alley.

THOMAS KINGSTON sworn.

Q. You are an inhabitant of Stockton on Tees? - Yes.

Q. Have you lived there any time? - Yes, sixteen years and upwards.

Q. You have a tolerable acquaintance with that place? - Yes.

Q. What business are you in there? - A ship carpenter.

Q. I would ask you whether there is any firm of J. Watman and Co. in that place? - No, there has not been any such during the last sixteen years.

Q. None, either bankers or of any other description? - No, not to my knowledge.

Q. Have you made any enquiry? - I have, generally through the place; I have examined the cess books there, the poor rates, the highway rates, the land tax; and enquired of the post master, if ever he had any letters or parcels directed to J. Watman and Co.

Q. Did you enquire at the inns there? - No, not at the inns; I got the books of the poor rates from the principal inn, the landlord of the principal inn who collected the poor rates last year.

Q. With that assistance besides your own knowledge, you have not been able to find such a person? - No, no such a person.

Q. Can such a house exist without your knowing it? - No, I should think not.

Jury. Did you ever see the house tax books? - Yes, the house tax and land tax too.

Mr. Knowlys to Robinson. Did not the prisoner at the time you took him desire of you, that he might go back to his own lodgings, for that the man that he received the note from was there? - He was in his own house when I took him; he said there was a man, a farmer, that was a witness of his taking of it.

Q. I believe you did not permit him to go back? - Not at all, we took him to Mr. Armstrong.

Court. Did he desire to be taken back to his house on that account, to find the man? - No, he did not say so, he said there was a farmer, one Jones, that was a witness of his taking it, who was in the house when he was took, and his wife.

Court to Prisoner. Have you any questions to ask the witness?

Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel. I frequently folicited my prosecutor either to go back, or to go in the public house, to settle my business; I told him the person was at my house, which I had the bill of, he did not wish to go in any public house; but still persevered with me to go forward, till we came to the public house next the office; my prosecutor came afterwards to me at the New Prison, and told me he wished he had come to me himself, and not have brought any officer along with him, then the business would have been settled.

Mr. Knowlys to Robinson. Did you ever go to him and tell him that? - I went into the prison about a man that stole my pots and I happened to see this prisoner there, and I told him that I wished the affair had not happened in my hands, because I could very ill spare the money, I wish it had not happened on me.

Jury. The signature of this note appears to be engraved, and not wrote, nor on a stamp, I should never have taken it if it was offered to me.

Mr. Const. Armstrong has said he took some notes from his pocket.

Court to Armstrong. You ought to know, and you must know, that you ought to speak out, I did not hear one word of what you mentioned about any other note.

Armstrong. I found this Birmingham one for ten guineas, a duplicate, and a piece of paper.

Q. You found no more notes than that? - No, I found two pounds eight shillings in money, which I was desired to keep by the magistrate, the prisoner asked for it, and the magistrate ordered me to keep it till I came to court.

Prisoner. I have nothing more to say than what I have asserted, I had no knowledge of the bill being any thing but upright and just, and as such I got it discounted with this man.

ANN BENTLEY sworn.

I live in Tash-street, No. 50, Gray's-in-lane.

Q. Was you acquainted with the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, I was.

Q. Do you know how he came in possession of the note? - Yes, it was on the 10th of September, about twelve o'clock Mr. Harcock came to be measured for a waistcoat, by Mr. Ball, I lived with Mr. Ball at that time as a servant.

Q. What was the business that Ball was in? - He is a taylor . Immediately after Mr. Ball had taken measure of Mr. Harcock, a person of the name of Warrell came up, and said, he had come up to look at some buttons that he had got to dispose of, he immediately shewed him them, after he had shewed them, he asked him what they were to be? Mr. Ball told him two pounds thirteen shillings, there was six gross for the coat, and three gross for the breast, that is for the waistcoat; Mr. Ball said, as he took them altogether, he should have them for that; Mr. Warrell immediately gave him a bill of exchange that had got so long to run, so many days to run, what the time was I cannot exactly tell; Mr. Ball said, he could not get that cashed; Mr. Warrel I immediately took that up as Mr. Ball could not give cash for that, he took and put the bill in his pocket, and laid down a five guinea note immediately on demand, the prisoner told him he could not give cash for it, but he would go out and see if he could get it changed or not, and to the best of my knowledge he was gone a quarter of an hour, and returned back again, when he returned back, he told Mr. Warrell he had got the bill discounted, and he gave him the balance due, which was two guineas in gold, and ten shillings in silver; Mr. Harcock and Mr. Warrell and the prisoner at the bar drank together, out of a pot of porter; I went down stairs, and in the course of half an hour the prisoner at the bar came down to call me up, when he came down, the officer and the prosecutor took Mr. Ball into custody, and took him away; I ran up stairs immediately to Mr. Warrell, and I said to him, there is some dispute about that note; he said, what dispute, I know better, I know that is a very good one; he took the buttons and put them in a pocket handkerchief, and walked down stairs, and said, he would go and seek after him, and I did not see any thing more of him. The gentleman who was with the officer that took Mr. Ball, came to me afterwards, and I took him to the house where I have heard Mr. Warrell say he used to frequent; the officer came back and fetched me, and I took him to where Mr. Ball's boxes were; afterwards I took him to the house that I heard this old man say that he frequently, to see if I could find him, this Mr. Warrell, to

a house in Tash-court, the number I don't justly know, when we were there the people told us that they expected him home at three o'clock to dinner; accordingly we waited till that time, and he did not come home, and he has not returned there any more.

Q. Have you ever been able to see Warrell again from that time to this? - No, never have been able to find him; I went two or three times to that house myself, besides the taking the gentleman with me, that was the gentlewoman's house that I found the direction that he left in the room, he said, he was paying his addresses there, and I went there and asked for him, and the gentlewoman knew him, and said, she expected him to dinner.

Mr. Const. Your name is Bentley I think? - Yes.

Q. You was servant to the prisoner, was you? - Yes.

Q. Have you lived in Tash-street with the prisoner? - Yes, No. 40.

Q. You lived with him all the time he lived in that lodging; how long was that? - A month.

Q. How long had you lived there when the prisoner was apprehended, in that lodging? - In that lodging we had not been a week, it wanted a day of it.

Q. Where did the prisoner live the last time you was with him? - In Ratcliffe-lare.

Q. How long have you known the prisoner? - Two years.

Q. Where has he lived these two years? - He came from Birmingham.

Q. How long has he lived in town? - Eight months.

Q. Had you lived with him all the time he was in town? - Yes.

Q. Did you come with him from Birmingham? - No, I did not.

Q. What was he? - A taylor.

Q. Did you live with him as soon as he came to town? - Yes.

Q. Did you live with him at Birmingham? - No.

Q. Did you, or did you not ever know him till he came to town? - Not till he came to town, that is two years ago when he first came to town, but he went out of town and returned back again.

Q. Did you live with him two years ago, when he came to town? - Yes.

Q. How long did you live with him then? - Eight or nine months.

Q. Where did he live then? - Red Lion-yard, Holborn.

Q. At whose house, a house of his own? - A lodging.

Q. Not a house of his own? - No.

Q. Whose house? - A person of the name of Mr. Wale.

Q. What number in Red Lion-yard? - No. 1.

Q. What was Mr. Wale? - A publican.

Q. What trade did the prisoner carry on there? - A taylor.

Q. How many rooms had he in the house then? - One,

Q. Only one? - Only one.

Q. Did he board there? - Yes, he lodged and boarded there himself, with me.

Q. What was you a servant? - Yes.

Q. At how much a year? - Five guineas a year.

Q. Then you was a yearly servant? - Yes.

Mr. Const. Do you happen to know a person of the name of Mears? - No, I do not.

Court. How long did you live in the house of Mr. Wale? - A year and half, when Mr. Ball went out of town he left me there.

Q. What had you only one room there? - Only one room.

Q. You lived a year and a half in Wale's house? - Yes.

Q. How long was he out of town? - Three or four months.

Q. And when he came back from Birmingham, did he come back to you? - Yes.

Q. Did you correspond with him when he was out of town? - I had letters from him at different times.

Q. Did you do business for him? - No other business particularly, than taking in messages and letters.

Q. Where did you direct to him at Birmingham? - Mr. Ball, No. 41, High-street, Birmingham.

Q. What trade did he carry on at Birmingham? - He did business for a gentleman there in the mercantile line, buckles, buttons, and hard ware.

Q. Then he did not carry on the trade of a taylor there? - No, he did not; and he did that business for a gentleman in town, he was an agent to him.

Q. How long did he continue in town? - He continued in town till this happened, and removed from Holborn to Ratcliffe-lare.

Q. How long did he continue in Holborn? - The whole time he was there.

Q. Do not laugh. How long did he continue in Holborn before he went to Ratcliffe-lare? - Five or six months.

Q. From Holborn where did he go to? - To Ratcliffe-lare, Old-street.

Q. And there he lived how long before he was taken up? - A week all but a day.

Mr. Const. You say you do not know any body of the name of Mears? - No, I do not.

Q. Then there was no such person present at the time he received this bill? - No, no such person.

Q. Do you know that the prisoner was to have been tried last sessions? - Yes, I knew he was to be tried.

Q. Did you attend to give evidence here? - No, I did not attend, he sent to let me know it was put off.

Q. Mr. Mears was not present? - No, Mr. Harcock, Warrall, Ball, and myself, and nobody else.

Q. Did you know this trial was put off on account of the absence of a particular witness that was not present? - There was nobody present but Harcock, Warrall, Ball and myself.

Q. Then if that has been said, or sworn that Mr. Mears was there, that is not true? - Mr. Mears was not there.

Q. This circumstance about Mr. Warrell, you say he came to buy some buttons of Mr. Ball? - Yes, he did, he sold them by commission.

Court. What was Warrell? - I do not know what he was, I never see him but that once.

Q. Where did he live? - I do not know where he lived; I took the officer to the house where he gave directions, to a house he used to frequent, where he paid his addresses to a gentlewoman.

Q. I understand you said Warrell had lived in that house? - No, he told me that was what he went backwards and forwards to that house for, he was going to be married to that gentlewoman that lived there, and he dropped the direction in the room.

Mr. Const. You know so much of him that he visited this woman, and that the woman lived in this place? - Yes.

Q. Yet I understood you just now to say, that you knew it because he dropped the direction? - He did drop a direction besides, which he took out of his pocket, and said that was the place where he was used to go to pay his addresses to this elderly woman.

Q. Having so done you knew of course where to find him? - Yes, I took the officer with me.

Q. Mr. Warrell came to buy buttons, that was all his business there? - Yes, he had no other business at all whatever.

Q. I thought I heard you say that his business was to be measured for a waistcoat? - No, that was Mr. Harcock.

Q. I suppose they told you immediately, that Mr. Ball was taken up, and you went to the justice and told him what you have now told us? - I did not tell him exactly what I have said now, not being put to my oath.

Q. Are you sure you did not? - I will not be positive; I have spoke the truth now; I perfectly recollect that. I speak the truth now.

Q. I am told, when you was asked who you was at the justice's, that you said you was wife to the prisoner? - I did; I was very much terrisied, and I hardly knew what to say.

Q. Is that the fact, that you are his wife, or that you have lived with him as his wife? - I have lived with him as a servant.

Q. Do you know a person of the name of Jones, a farmer? - No, I do not.

Q. Then there was no such a person there at the time he took the note? - There was no such person.

Q. But you have heard of the name? - There was no such person; there was but Mr. Warrell, the prisoner at the bar, Mr. Harcock, and myself.

SAMUEL HARCOCK sworn.

I live at No. 48, Bell-yard; I am a grocer.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, I know him; I saw him in the country first, at Somers town.

Q. Do you know the day he was apprehended? - It was on a Wednesday, the second week in September.

Q. Was you with him on that day? - He had, just before he was taken measured me for a waistcoat; then there came up a man in white hair, and asked to look at some buttons, which he shewed to him, and made a price of; they agreed, and the man presented to him an exchange bill, the time of which I do not know; the man refused it, and said, it was a bill he could not take, he could not get change for such a bill as that, he could not cash it; he next offered him a five guinea note; the prisoner went out without it, and brought in the balance of the five guinea note, which was two guineas and ten shillings; I observed it at the table, and offered to make up the ten shillings, provided the person would advance six-pence, I wanting change for half a guinea, but he had no money about him.

Q. Did you see the five guinea note which he gave him? - I did not; I was talking to the woman, at the fire-place.

Q. How long after the note was it that the prisoner went out for change? - Immediately; I had my back towards him.

Court. Did you stay there till the prisoner was apprehended? - I was in there when the prisoners was apprehended.

Mr. Knowlys. Did you see him apprehended? - I was above stairs, and he was below stairs.

Court. Did you go out of the house first or he? - The prisoner went down stairs.

Q. Was the prisoner apprehended and taken out of the house before you was out of the house? - No.

Q. You went out of the house first? - I was in the house when he was taken up.

Q. Did you leave the house before the prisoner? - No, after.

Q. Did you hear what he was apprehended for? - I did not hear a word of it; I heard he was taken into custody, and I thought it was some bailiff.

Q. When was you made acquainted that he was apprehended? - A very little time afterward; somebody came up and said that they had taken away Ball; the man that bought the buttons seemed surprised and astonished that he should

be taken into custody, he said, it cannot be for my note, so I know it is a good one.

Court. What was the name of the man in white hair? - Warrell, or some such.

Mr. Knowlys. How long was it after that, that the man in white hair went away? - We two both went down the stairs together; that is all I know, every word.

Mr. Knapp. Pray what business do you carry on? - I am a grocer.

Q. Do you keep a shop? - Yes.

Q. How long have you known the prisoner? - I knew him only since the latter end of July.

Q. Very short acquaintance with him? - No acquaintance at all with him, none at all.

Q. You say you was standing at the fire, and you had not an opportunity of seeing the note? - I did not see the note.

Q. And the woman was standing at the fire? - Yes, at the time they were transacting their business.

Q. You was not eating a luncheon, you was standing at the fire, you was not eating any thing? - No.

Q. If any body has said that you and the woman were sitting at the table eating, it was no such thing? - No, no such thing.

Q. You never see the note? - No; I heard it was a five guinea note.

Q. Whether it was on Maidstone Bank or any other, you don't know? - No.

Q. You was present at the apprelsension? - No, the prisoner at the bar, Ball, was down stairs.

Q. Did not the officers go up stairs? - No, I never see any officers, none above stairs; there were some people came up, but I do not know who they were.

Q. Did you go down stairs? - Yes.

Q. You told my lord and gentlemen of the jury that you thought it was a bailiff come with a writ, for a civil debt to arrest him? Then nobody said, neither did you hear what it was for? - Not a word.

Q. Did you see the prosecutor; this good man? - I saw nobody there.

Q. You did not see Armstrong there? - I did not.

Q. You went before the justice? - No, I went home immediately, I was very well satisfied.

Q. Pray how did you come here? - I came here by desire.

Q. Was you subpoenaed? - No.

Q. By whose desire? - By a friend of his.

Q. Do you know his name if I may be so bold? - He is a little man, I do not know his name.

Q. Did he tell you what he wanted you for? - He told me that I might speak in regard to that affair that happened at such a time.

Q. He did not tell you what you must recollect at all? - No.

Q. This was in September last? No. thing particular had passed from September to the present time, that you can recollect as well as this circumstance? - Not particular.

Q. Do you know the office the prisoner was examined at? - I know nothing at all about it.

Q. Never heard whether he had three examinations? - No.

Q. Was you desired to come here left Sessions? - No.

Q. By the prisoner or any body else? - No, I did not know what had become of him.

Mr. Knowlys. Then you only heard about this five guinea note? Did he go out to change a note? - He did immediately, and brought back this change, two guineas and ten shillings.

Court. Mr. Harcock when did your acquaintance first commence with the prisoner? - About the latter end of July last, that he walked with me to town, from Somers-town in the evening. I went in the Sun public house to take a glass of beer, at Somers-town, at the latter end of July, and he offered me to see me to London.

Q. Did he go home with you then? - He walked with me then.

Q. Did he go home with you? - No.

Q. How long was it after that, that you saw him again? - I never saw him again after that till this time.

Q. Do you mean that after the day your acquaintance commenced at some public house in July, that you never saw him afterwards till that Wednesday? - On that Wednesday, I saw him in Old-street, that was the place where I first saw him.

Q. When did you see him on that Wednesday? - In the morning time, in Old-street.

Q. Did any thing pass between you and him? - He recollected that I had promised to make use of him for his gratitude of seeing me to town that evening,

Q. What you had promised to make use of him? - He did not take any thing of me for seeing me home that evening, and I told him the first time I saw him I would make him amends for seeing me home.

Q. Then he told you at the same time where he lived? - I went with him home to this house where he lived in Ratcliffe-lare.

Q. I do not mean that, I mean the first time that ever you saw him. Did he tell you where he lived? - No, he did not.

Q. Then from the first time you saw him till you met him in Old-street, you did not know where he lived? - I did not know where he lived when he was in Somers-town.

MARY MOORE sworn.

I live at the top of St. John's-street.

Q. Married or single? - Married.

Q. What is your husband's name? - John Moore, he is a tobacconist.

Q. How long have you known this person at the bar? - About nine years, I always considered him as a very honest man, and never heard any thing to the contrary.

Mr. Const. Have you known much of him lately? - This summer he came to London about Easter time with his wife along with him.

Court. You say that he came to London about last Easter with his wife? How do you know that? - Because they lived at their coming into town with me, and his wife is a worthy reputable woman, she is a principal friend of mine.

Q. You have known his wife for some years? - Yes, and him too, I have known him about nine years.

Q. Do you know her maiden name before she was married? - No, I do not.

Q. Then it is since her marriage that she was your acquaintance? - Yes, in the town of Birmingham.

Q. Do you know where they came from? - From Birmingham, she brought all her good clothes to my house.

Q. Was this in his presence? - Yes.

Q. You say they came from Birmingham together? - Yes.

Q. They came to your house from Birmingham? - Yes, they came in the

Birmingham waggon, and alighted at Islington.

Q. And you say they brought something with them? - Yes, four large boxes, with his wife's clothes and his clothes.

Q. Did you ever hear from them how long they had been at Birmingham? - No, I cannot say to that.

Q. Where did they go to when they came to town? - To a butcher's in somers-town, but I never was at their apartment.

Q. How did you know they went to a butcher's in Somers-town? - Because the butcher's cart came for some part of their boxes from my house.

Q. Did he go in the butcher's cart? - I believe he walked, I cannot be certain.

Q. Did she go in the butcher's cart? - No, she staid and drank tea with me, and went in the evening.

Q. Had you ever seen her before that time? - O, yes.

Q. In what capacity had you known her? - His wife now at this time nurses the most respectable people in Birmingham, nurses lying-in ladies.

Q. What aged woman is she? - Some years older than him; ten years it may be.

Q. Have you seen him since Easter? - Yes, he has made my husband a suit of clothes, and my, son two suits.

Q. Where did he live when he made your husband and son three suits of clothes? - He came and made them at our house, I do not know the place where he lived since he left the butcher's.

Court. (Let Ann Bently stand up.) Look at that young woman, is that the young woman that you say is his wife? - No.

Q. Then that is not the person that came with him to your house? - No, I never see this woman in my life till the person who took him, came and desired a favour to look in a box of his.

Q. Do you know where he was taken up? - No, it was some time in September.

Q. Do you know where she lived since she left Somers-town, his lawful wife? - She went down from London to nurse some ladies at Birmingham, she went down for that purpose.

Q. And there she is now as you understand? - Yes.

Court to Robinson. I wish to know whether I have taken a part of your evidence correctly, therefore I have called you up again. You went with this officer to apprehend the prisoner at the bar? - yes.

Q. When you took the prisoner at the bar, did you acquaint him with the reason for which you apprehended him? - Yes.

Q. What did he say? - He was going backwards into the garden, I took hold of him by his great coat, and told him it was a forged note he had given me, he said if it was he took it in trade the day before, Mr. Wilson assisted me and we took him.

Q. Did he say any thing more? - Yes, he wanted to go up stairs, Mr. Wilson said he must go before the magistrate, accordingly we called an assistant to go with us.

Q. You are repeating now a story which is not exactly of the same purpose as you have told in the former part. Did he say any thing more? - Not then, not until we was going along, he said then that there was a man, one Mr. Jones, a farmer, in the house that saw him take the note, and, he said, his wife likewise saw him take the note, for buckles and buttons.

Q. Who is his wife? - This young woman that was here, he called her his wife.

Q. What was it be said about Jones? - He said that Mr. Jones, a farmer, saw him take the note for buckles and buttons, and hardware, and his wife was present.

Court to Wilson. Is your christian name Benjamin? - Yes.

Q. Be so good as to tell me whether you went with the last witness for the purpose of apprehending the prisoner? - Yes.

Q. Keep up your voice, and tell me what past? - Mr. Robinson called upon me to go and apprehend this here man, Mr. Robinson knocked at the door, and as soon as the door was opened he saw the prisoner at the bar, he said, this is the man that has defrauded me, so accordingly I took and conveyed him down directly to Worship-street.

Q. Now before you took him out of the house did any thing pass there? - He wanted to go up stairs, I told him I could not suffer it.

Q. Did he say for what reason he wanted to go up stairs? - He said to settle it; he said, if the note was a bad one it was more than he knew.

Q. Did he tell you at that time from whom he had the note? - No, I do not remember.

Q. Was that all he said, whether any body was above stairs that he had the note from? - I do not remember.

Q. Whether there was any body there that saw a person give him the note? - No, I did not hear that

Q. You took him to the office; in going along did he say any thing? - He declared he took it in trade all the way going along, and that he did not know it was a bad one. I know nothing more.

Q. Now try if you recollect whether he mentioned the name of any particular person from whom he took it, or that saw him take it? - I do not remember any thing at all about it.

Q. Did you hear him declare when he took it? - I cannot recollect.

Q. He said he took it in trade; did he say when? - I cannot recollect.

Q. Can you recollect enough to say whether he said he took it in trade on that day? - Not that I recollect.

GUILTY Death . (Aged 30.)

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-4

4. THOMAS PEARCE otherwise PRICE was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 19th of February , two promissory bank post bills for the payment of money, value 40l. the property of Martha Davis .

Indicted in a second COUNT, for stealing the same notes, laying them to be the property of Francis Gosling and William Gosling .

In a Third and Fourth COUNTS, for stealing the same notes, calling them two bank notes.

In a Fifth and Sixth COUNTS, for the same, calling them bills of exchange.

(The indictment opened by Mr. Russell, and the case by Mr. Fielding.)

WILLIAM SEDGEWICK sworn.(Examined by Mr. Russell.)

Q. Was you in the month of February last, a clerk in the house of Messrs. Godling, the bankers? - I was.

Q. Did you, any time in that month, send a letter to Messrs Davis, in Lynn, in Norfolk? - On the 19th of February I enclosed them in a letter, directed to Messrs. Davis, at Kings Lynn, in Norfolk, five post bills, the number.

Q. Should you know these notes again? - I should know the numbers of them.

Q. When you had enclosed these notes in this letter, what did you do with the letter? - I sealed it.

Q. What did you do with the letter? - I put it in a post office in the middle Temple.

Q. Have you any of these notes here? - Two of them.

Q. Produce them.

(The notes produced.)

Q. Are these two of the notes that you put in that letter, and directed as you mention? - Yes, they are.

Q. That was on the 19th of February? - It was.

Mr. Knowlys. When did you see these notes for the last time? - They were first shewn to me at the justice's, in Worship-street.

Mr. Russell. You put these in the letters; where did you get these bank post bills from? - They were brought to us that morning from the bank.

Mr. Knowlys. You got these notes when you attended at the public office? - Yes, it was.

Q. That was some where about the 26th of September? - Yes, somewhere thereabouts.

Q. And you put them, if these are the notes, inclosed in a letter the 19th of February? - Yes.

Q. That is seven months before you received these at the public office? - Yes.

Q. So that from the 19th of February to the 20th of September, you never set eyes on them again? - No, sir.

Mr. Russell. At the time of this robbery being committed, by whom at all did you hear of it? - About two days afterwards Messrs. Davis sent us a letter, and by that we were informed that these post bills were not arrived.

Q. What did you do in consequence of that? - We sent to the bank to stop the payment of them.

Q. Of course when you went to the bank to stop the payment of them, you communicated to the bank the number of the notes? - I did.

Q. And that within two days, you had enclosed them in this manner? - Within two or three days.

Q. Did you at the time you enclosed these five bank post bills, take any memorandum of the number of them? - Yes.

Q. Where is that book? - At Messrs. Gostings.

Q. Then you must go and fetch it.

Mr. Knowlys. Certainly the post office ought to be better prepared than this.

JOHN ABRAHAMS sworn.

Q. Do you belong to the receiving house in Middle Temple-lane.

Q. Were all the letters that were put in your house forwarded to the office? - They were forwarded to the post office, by a messenger.

Q. You learned very recently what had happened to this bag? - Yes.

Q. Therefore your memory refreshes you to speak of the 19th of February? - It does so.

Q. Were the letters made up in the usual way? - They were; I cannot positively say that I made them up myself, but I think I did; but it was either a young man that is in court, or me that delivered the bag, when properly made up, to the messenger.

Q. I do not know whether you have any memory of Mr. Gosling's clerk putting any letter in? - It is the custom for Mr. Gosling's clerk to do that every day.

Mr. Knapp. You do not say that you was present at the time? - I am apt to believe I was.

Q. But on your apt to believe the jury must not convict the prisoner.

JOHN SECRETAN sworn.

Q. Was you at Mr. Abrahams, on the 19th of February? - I was.

Q. Were the letters put in the post that day, regularly forwarded to the post office? - They were.

Mr. Knapp. Whether these letters were you do not know nothing about? - I do not.

Court. What you mean they were forwarded in the ordinary way? What was done with them? - They were made up either by Mr. Abrahams or me we are the only persons that make them up; they are put in a bag, and that bag sealed; and that delivered to a messenger.

Mr. Knowlys. Can you be certain you was at home on the 19th of February? - I cannot say that to a certainty.

Q. You mean to say that you suppose so, that is all you can say? - Yes.

Court. In the month of February were there any other persons, besides you and the other witness, that made up this bag? - Never.

JACOB BEARD sworn.

Q. You have a department in the post office? - Yes.

Q. Have you any recollection of the 19th of February of the letter bag coming that was to be forwarded? - Yes; I am the carrier.

Q. Did you carry the bag of letters that you had from the last witness, to the post office? - Yes.

Q. And you delivered it to the proper officer? - Yes.

Court. Was you a clerk in the month of February? - Yes.

Q. Do you carry them every day? - Yes.

Mr. Fielding. You have heard the loss of this bag, and therefore your memory is positive? - Yes.

CHARLES CAGE sworn.

Q. Was you employed in the post office in the month of February? - I was.

Q. In what character was you employed in the post office that day? - As the senior officer of the Lynn road that evening, I was acting in the absence of one that was ill, I put the letters myself in the Lynn bag that day.

Q. Did you put in all the letters that was brought to be sent by the post office, to the Lynn bag? - All that came into my custody.

Q. When they were put in was the bag made up? - The bag is supposed to be made up when the letters were put in.

Q. Did you make up the bag in the usual way? - I did.

Q. Did you seal it? - After I made it up in the usual way I gave it into the custody of another gentleman, who saw it sealed, his name is Field.

Q. All the letters that you got from that receiving house you put in that mail? - Yes.

Mr. Knowlys. All the letters from the receiving houses are brought and deposited in a lump in the post office? - Yes, they are.

Q. Then I take it for granted, it is the business of a number of clerks to sort the letters? - Yes.

Q. There are twenty or thirty employed for this work, besides yourself? - Yes.

Q. It is not the first time you have heard that there were persons taking letters away, before they have got to their proper bags? - It is not.

Q. There have been people prosecuted for that? - Yes, but I can say that I put all in the Lynn bag, that came to my care.

Q. You behaved careful, honestly, so far as the letters came to your hand, you inserted them faithfully, and put them in the Lynn bag? - So far I can say.

Q. Now whether this letter ever came within the reach of your letters to put in the Lynn bag it is impossible for you to ascertain? - I cannot.

Mr. Russell. But though these are sorted by a vast variety of people; when sorted all the letters belonging to Lynn, belong to your department? - Yes, I put all in the bag, they must have passed through my hands after they were sorted.

TITUS FIELD sworn.

Q. You have a department in the Post office? - I am a letter sorter.

Q. Do you remember on the 19th of February, the Lynn bag being made up by the last witness, and delivered to you to seal? - I do, on the 19th of February last.

Q. Was it sealed in the usual way, when the bag was made up? - To the best of my memory it was.

Q. In the usual way as you do every night? Was that bag made up to be dispatched by the mail? - To the best of my memory it was.

Q. According to your inspection of the office that night, were all the matters conducted in their orderly and regular way? - Clearly so.

Court. Did you seal it, or see it sealed? - It was delivered to me, and sealed by another witness.

Mr. Fielding. What did you do with the bag? - I put it with another bag in the yard, and delivered it to the guard of the Norfolk mail.

Q. Did you see it sealed? - I did.

Q. What is his name? - I do not know.

Q. Do you know the guard when you see him? - Yes, his name is Fagan, I believe.

John Abrahams . I have now got the book in which is the entry of these notes.

Q. Did you make it yourself? - No.

Mr. Knowlys. Who made it? - One William Ewings , he made the entry.

Q. How did he make the entry? - By my reading the number of notes to him, I saw him make the entry.

Q. Did you compare the entry with the notes at the time? - No, I did not, I was calling over the notes to him, I saw he entered them right as I called them.

Q. Upon your oath did you compare it with the notes? - Immediately after my mentioning the numbers, I saw that he entered it as I mentioned it.

Q. Did you compare that entry with the bank post bills yourself? - I had them bank post bills, I read him the numbers, and I saw very plainly at that time that he entered it correctly, I did not look at it after.

Q. Do you mean to say that you was looking at the bank post bills, and at the entry to see that they agreed with each other? - Yes, I did, at the very time I mentioned the numbers, I saw they were correct, and I did not look at it after, because I saw they were correct at the first.

Q. Was its number corresponding? - Yes.

Court. What book is that, what do you call it? - This we call our cash book.

Mr. Fielding. Read the number of the five bank post bills, that were to go to this lady at Lynn? - The first is R, 7932, R, 7933, R, 7934, 7935, 7936.

Q. Which are the two that are found? - Thirty-four and thirty-five.

Q. Have you put down the sum? - Yes, five twentys.

JOHN FAGAN sworn.

Q. Was you on the evening of the 10th of February, guard of the Norfolk mail? - Yes.

Q. Did you receive from the officer that was just now up, the bag containing the Lynn letters? - Yes, and I see that bag put in the Brandon bag.

Q. When you had received it, what did you do with it? - I tied the sack, the Lynn bag was sealed and put in a sack with other bags along with it.

Q. What did you first see of this Lynn bag? - I saw Mr. Field put the bag in the Brandon sack.

Q. What other bags were there put in the same sack? - These other bags besides the Lynn bag.

Q. To whom was the sack delivered? - It was delivered to me; I held the sack while Mr. Field put in she bags, and then I tied up the sack.

Q. What did you do with the sack when it was full? - I laid it on one side, till some other bags were ready, to carry them all at once.

Q. Did you tie it up? - Yes.

Q. Is the sack sealed after you put in the bags, and tied up? - No, the sack is not sealed.

Q. What did you do with the sack containing the different bags? - I laid it on one side, till the others were ready, and when I got three sacks I took them down the yard, from the inland office; and as I was carrying them down the yard, I hallooed out, the Norwich guard.

Q. Had you the three sacks in your hand? - Yes, across my shoulder.

Q. When you put them down from your shoulder, where did you place them? - By the side of the wheel.

Q. Did any thing happen? - Not that I saw.

Q. How did you employ yourself after you laid them down? - Before I could take my fire arms out of the mail coach, Mr. White, belonging to the office, called out to me, and asked me how many bags I carried out? I said, three; he said, here is but two.

Q. Did you find the three bags after you had got your fire arms; the same bags that you laid down? - No.

Q. Did you miss any? - He missed them before I did, I missed them to be sure.

Q. How soon? - In less than half a minute.

Q. Was that one that you missed, the one containing the Lynn bag? - Yes, and all that sack contained in which the Lynn bag was.

GEORGE NELSON sworn.

Q. Did you at any time, and when, find any letter bags? - Yes.

Q. Where did you find them? - In the River Thames.

Q. When did you find them in the River Thames? - I cannot say what time, as to the day of the month.

Q. Was it in winter or summer? - The spring of the year. After I brought them on shore, I made the best way I could with them up to the general post office, and when I came up there the gentleman bid me come in.

Q. You carried them to the general post office? - Yes, between seven and eight o'clock in the morning.

HENRY NICHOLLS sworn.

Q. Are you employed in the post office? - Yes.

Q. What have you got there? - Bags.

Q. Where did you get them? - I received part of them from George Nelson .

Q. When did you receive them? - On the 23d of February, between seven and eight in the morning.

Court. What are you? - I am clerk to the superintendant, and surveyor of the mail coaches.

Mr. Russell. Is there among them the Lynn bag? - Yes, the letters are broken off; the bag was brought between seven and eight o'clock in the morning, George Nelson brought these bags to me, and said he found them in the Thames.

Q. Was there any papers and letters in them? - Yes, there was.

Q. In what state was they brought? - All wet.

Q. Had they any seals on them? - No.

Q. Were they the bags that were inclosed in the great sack? - I believe the Brandon sack is here, but those are the small bags that the sack contained.

Q. How many sacks and bags were brought to you altogether? - Four, but only two by George Nelson ; these are the two bags that were brought by George Nelson , I labelled with his name.

Q. What are the other bags? - The other bags were brought by three watermen, I believe these were brought by Edward Chappel , John Holmes and Anthony Chandler .

Q. When were they brought? - On the 20th of Febuary, to the best of my recollection.

Q. Was there any thing found in any of these bags? - Yes.

Q. What was found? - News papers and a letter, I believe, or two.

Q. To what place were the letters and newspapers addressed that were found? - I do not exactly recollect, I believe they are the bags at this moment.

Q. Then you may produce it. From the account of the things you found, does it correspond with that road.

Mr. Russell. While he is looking in the bag we will call the other witnesses who found the other bags.

ANTHONY CHANDLER sworn.

Q. Did you carry any thing to the post office on the 20th of February last? - I carried some letters and newspapers, I found them in Brookes's wharf.

Q. Where did you carry them? - To the post office; I heard there were some bags found before, I suppose these were something shot out of them.

Mr. Nichol's. (After looking over the bag, says,) here is a direction to Swarthen.

Mr. Russell. Is that one of the places that would be in the Branden bag? - Yes, undoubtedly.

THOMAS BLACKMORE sworn.

I am a servant to Mr. Dickenson at Edmonton, he keeps the Cross Keys.

Q. Look at the prisoner at the bar; where did you see him in September last? - I saw him jump out of a window.

Q. What day of the month was it? - I do not know.

Q. Was it in September? - It was.

Q. What time was it? - A quarter after nine o'clock precisely.

Q. You say you saw him coming out of a window of your master's house? - I did.

Q. How high was this window from your master's house? - The first pair of stairs, the window was about twelve feet high.

Q. What room was it? - My master's own bed chamber.

Q. You say he jumped out of the window? - I saw him.

Q. What did you do on seeing him jump out of the window? - I pursued him directly, and never had him out of my sight until I took him.

Q. How far did you get from the house before you behind him? - About twenty yards

Q. Was any body near there? - Yes, one George Gates .

Q. What did you do when you came up to him? - I laid hold of him by the collar, and George Gates kicked him up, and we took him into my master's parlour, the constable came, and then he was delivered to him and searched.

Q. How many were there together in your master's parlour when the constable came? - I cannot say.

GEORGE GATES sworn.

Q. Did you assist the last witness in taking this man? - I was the only man that stopped him.

Q. When you stopped him was you by the side of any water? - By the end of the bridge, close by the brook; Mr. Dickenson hallooed out; he came running without his hat, and when he came on the middle of the bridge I saw him make a motion with his hand, and I heard something fall in the water, but what it was I do not know; this was at about a quarter after nine o'clock.

Q. Did you at any time, and when did you search the brook, to see what there was thrown in? - The next morning about seven o'clock I came down, and I had thoughts of looking into the brook, and the first thing I saw there was a dark lanthorn.

Q. Did you see any thing else there? - Yes, a dark lanthorn and a bunch of picklock keys.

Q. Where did you take these from? Was that part of the river within the throw of the prisoner at the time you took him? - Yes.

JAMES DICKENSON sworn.

I live at Edmonton.

Q. Did you at any time, and when was you alarmed by any noise in your bed room; what time was it? - About nine, as near as I can recollect; I heard some noise in the room, I laid some little while, I thought at first it was the maid, at last I said, is that you, Sally, when a person immediately ran and lifted up the sash, and jumped out of the window, I do not know who the man was.

JONATHAN GILDERSON sworn.

Q. You was called in when this man was taken into Mr. Dickenson's house? - Yes.

Q. Did you search him when you got him into the parlour? - Yes.

Q. Tell me, and the gentlemen of the jury, what you found on him when you made the search? - I found two twenty pound bills, and these other articles, here is a pocket book, and the notes were in this pocket book.

Q. Now look at the notes? - Those are the two notes I found on him in that pocket book.

Q. What other things did you find? - A watch and a knife, and a bag, and some phosphorus with some matches.

Q. Where was that dark lanthorn found? - Gates found it, I did not.

Mr. Knowlys. Did you find any letters on him? - No, I did not, but these two bills.

Q. Would there have been any thing more easy than to have chucked away this pocket book that had got the bills?

Q. Where did you take him to from this? - I took him to Worship-street on the 26th of September, he was taken on the 25th.

(The bank post bill read by the clerk of the Court.)

Mr. Knowlys. If any body had said to you here is a bank note, you would have took it? - I never had one in my life, so I could not have known any better.

Prisoner. On the 19th of September I was at Reading fair; I get my livelihood by buying and selling horses , as such I sold three horses at Reading fair, last September; as such I took them two bank post bills, in payment for six and thirty pounds, and four pounds to give in balance. On the 25th I had been at Waltham Abbey fair when I was taken into custody.

BARTHOLOMEW WAKELING sworn.

I live in St. John's-street.

Q. How far from the prisoner at the bar? - Very little way. I live by Old Hicks's Hall, in George's-court.

Q. When did he live in George's-court? - From before Christmas till May, I waited on him, I was a barber.

Q. Do you know what state of health he was in last winter? - A very bad state of health, so that I shaved him in bed oftener than up.

Q. What state of health was he in, in February? - He was so ill he could not set up in his room.

Q. How long was he bad? - Four or five months.

Q. Was he able to be out in March? - No, he was not, he went to the hospital after that, and I sent one of my men to him there, because I did not like to go myself.

Q. What time was this? - March or April.

Q. Was he able to go out? - No, very bad indeed; I expected to hear of the men's death every day.

Mr. Garrow. You are not particular as to the date, I take it for granted? - I did not take any notice of the day of the month, or any thing else.

Q. What way of life was this man in? - God knows.

Q. How many months have you known him? - Nine or ten months.

Q. Nine or ten months, and when I asked you what trade he was, you refer me to God Almighty; Did you ever enquire what trade he was? - No.

Q. Who was his landlord? - I do not know, Holton, I think is his landlord, he has lived in George's-court a good while.

Q. Suppose you had a new man, and you was to send him, how would you direct him? - To No. 5.

Q. Will you swear it was No. 4? - No, I will not; it was an easy matter to enquire him out within a door or two. I will not swear, it was either four or five.

Q. Whether you attended him three months or four or five months you cannot tell? - Not at home I did not.

WILLIAM BATT sworn.

I live in Leather-lane; Holborn; I am a green grocer.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.

Q. Did you know him last winter? - Yes.

Q. When did you know him in the winter; did you know him in December last? - Yes, in December, January, March and April.

Q. During that time did you see him frequently? - I might once a week, and I might twice a week, at different times, when I used to take greens to him.

Q. What was his state of health? - I have seen him so bad that he could hardly walk across the room.

Q. How was his health about January? - I think about the beginning of February very bad.

Q. Did he keep his room at that time? - He was in his room when I see him always.

Q. He was very bad? - He was at that time; he appeared to be weakly, and could hardly walk across the room without assistance.

Mr. Garrow. What occasion had you to see him, Mr. Batt? - By carrying things where he was.

Q. Some times he was very indifferent undoubtedly? - He always was indifferent when I saw him.

Q. With respect to how you found him in the beginning of the year? - He was indifferent at all times.

Q. Can you venture to say that you saw him in the month of February at all? - Yes, about the 10th or 12th of the month.

Q. Did you ever miss him at all? - He was always at home when I went there with the things.

Q. What way of life was this gentleman in? - No otherwise than his father did keep a public house and when his father left the public house he came and lived in George's-court.

Q. Did he now and then buy a horse or two? - As I heard say.

Q. How lately before he was so ill might he have bought a horse or two? - It might be in May.

Q. Then how he got his living in the months of December, or January, or February, you cannot tell at all? - I never enquired.

MARTHA BATT sworn.

I went to dine with the prisoner on the 3d of February, it was his birth day, and his wife came and asked me to come and dine with them, he was very bad indeed, he was in bed all the day, I went twice in the course of a fortnight, to carry him a shirt for his little boy that his wife gave me to make, and then he was so bad he he could not keep up, he was bad a great while after that indeed.

Q. Was he able to go about like other people? - No.

Mr. Garrow. Do you know the nature of his complaint? - A rheumatic and a kind of inward complaint besides.

Q. They were in a good deal of distress not being so well to do as they had been? - No, I believe not.

Q. Was there a large party on the birth day? - Nobody but me and William Batt and the children.

Q. Do you know what way of living this young man was in? - For three years when they lived next door to the White Hart, I used to be in and out, and after they left the public house he went in and lived in George's-court.

Q. You cannot tell how the young man got his living? - Not at all.

Q. His wife never told you over a dish of tea? - Never.

Q. Perhaps you can tell me what you had for dinner; but I will not trouble you as there was nobody there but the wife; you are sure it was the beginning of February? - I am, because it was his birth day.

ELIZABETH ESPLEN sworn.

I am a sister of Bartholomew hospital, in the ward the prisoner was in, the prisoner came in the 14th of last May.

Q. What was the state of his health? - He entirely lost the use of his limbs and all one side of him with a Rheumatic pain.

Q. How long did he continue in the the hospital? - Until the middle of June.

Q. From his appearance when he came in did it appear that he had been ill some time? - It had in appearance that he had, and his wife said he had been ill some time.

Mr. Garrow. You knew nothing of him till May? - Not at all.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the London Jury before. Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-5

5. THOMAS THOMAS was indicted for that he, on the 4th of October , in the parish of St. George's Hanover, in the County of Middlesex ; did rob a certain mail, in which letters were sent by the general post from Bristol to London, of one letter directed to Henry Thornton , Esq . another letter directed to Messrs . Birch, Chambers, and Hobbs , bankers , London; two other letters and one packet, directed to Henry Thornton, Esq. another packet, directed to Birch, Chambers, and Hobbs; and two other packets , against the form of the statute.

Indicted in a second COUNT, for that he feloniously did steal and take from and out of a certain bag of letters, called the Bristol bag, sent from Bristol to London, other letters and packets described as in the former Count.

In a third COUNT, for that he feloniously did steal, and take from and out of the Bristol bag, a letter directed to Henry Thornton, Esq. London; another letter directed to Messrs. Birch, Chambers, and Hobbs, Esqs. bankers, London; two other letters, another letter directed to Henry Thornton, Esq. London; and two other packages, against the form of the statute.

(The indictment opened by Mr. Russell, and the case by Mr. Fielding.)

LEWIS WILLIAMS sworn.

Q. Look at the young man at the bar? - That is the man that went down to Bristol.

Q. You was a guard of the Bristol mail coach? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember going out of town with him in the Bristol mail coach on the 2d of October? - I do.

Q. Where did the mail coach go from? - It goes first of all from the Swan with two necks, in Lad-lane.

Q. It sets out last from the Gloucester coffee house? - Yes.

Q. Who were the passengers in that coach? Who were in the inside? - I really cannot tell now, but the prisoner at the bar was outside.

Q. Did he ride with the coachman? - He did till he got as far as -

Q. Did he become an inside passenger after that? - He did.

Q. Had you any conversation with him during the journey? - Nothing particular.

Q. What time did you arrive in Bristol during the morning of the 3d of October? - As near to twelve o'clock as I can think.

Q. Where was he set down? - At the Bush inn, in Corn-street.

Q. Did you see any thing of him after he was set down? - No, he was in the room along with the rest of the passengers.

Q. When did the mail coach set out from Bristol to come to town? - About four o'clock as near as can be.

Q. Did the prisoner return by the coach with you? - He did.

Q. Was he an outside passenger or an in? - He was an outside passenger.

Q. At four o'clock you set off? - Yes.

Q. Did it happen to be your business to bring the mail from the

post office to the mail coach? - It was.

Q. Did you do it? - I did do it on my shoulder.

Q. Did you see all the parts performed at the post office? - I saw that the bag was sealed and put in another sack, and that sack tied.

Q. When you had got this from the post office what did you do with it? - I brought it on my shoulder, until I got to the coach, and then when I got to the coach, I heaved them down, and I put them in the mail box.

Q. Explain what the mail box is? - It is a place made at the back of the coach for the purpose of holding the mail.

Q. Is your seat on it? - Yes.

Q. How do you lift up the lid of the mail box, as you call it, to put the sack in it? - In the hinder part there are three irons which come up to support the seat, and another iron comes from the body of the coach to the seat on which we sit on, it is on the same springs as the coach.

Q. This seat in which you sit yourself, is above the box, but not fixed on the box, but stands on three separate legs by itself? - Yes.

Q. How many openings were there to this mail box? - Only one opening.

Q. Does it open at the back of the coach? - It opens at the further part; the lid goes towards the back of the coach, it opens towards the back of the coach.

Q. When you are sitting on your seat your seet comes on the mail box? - Yes.

Q. So that if you stand up you stand on the mail? - Yes.

Q. When you are seated there, can you open the cover of the mail box? - You must get up and stand on the spring of the coach that goes along, before it can be done.

Q. Can it be done then? - Yes, which I have done many times, to get the bags in.

Q. When you left Bristol then he was on the box with the coachman, and you was in your seat? - Yes.

Q. How far did you get on your journey to London before it grew darkish? - Near to Chippenham, as near as I can recollect.

Q. When you arrived at Calne, was it light or dark then? - It was dark then, it was night; but whether there was a moon I cannot tell.

Q. What happened when you got to Calne? - We changed horses at the Catharine Wheel; I was at that time on the top with the coachman, and we were going out of Calne about half a mile, and I was tying a bit of pork on the top of the coach, for my fellow servant; and this Thomas Thomas got on the roof of the coach, and said, he was very much fatigued, and I says to him in this manner, I don't care if you ride these four or five miles in my place; and then he got over and got into my seat, and I stood up along with him for about half a mile or further.

Q. So that you stood up; when you stood up on the mail box, and he was sitting in your seat, there was room for you both? - Yes.

Q. How far did you ride in that situation? - For about half a mile.

Q. What became of you then? - I went over the roof of the coach and sat along with my fellow servant, on the box.

Q. Now what sort of light was there at that time? - I think there was a little moon, as far as I can remember, but I am not sure of that.

Q. How far did you ride, think you, in that situation you have described? - About four miles and three quarters.

Q. What rate do you generally go at an hour? - We went very fast, nine miles an hour, I dare say or rather better; we were not above three or four and twenty minutes in going that stage.

Q. When you came near to the end of that stage, what alteration did you make? - I said to him, you and I must change seats; which we did; he jumped over the roof on to the coach box, and I got to my own seat.

Q. Then after you had recovered your seat, and he his on the box, you came into Marlborough? - Yes.

Q. There, I believe, you left the coach? - I did.

Q. Who succeeded you in the care as guard? - Thomas Hawkins.

Q. You say you have no doubt of the young man at the bar? - I know him very well by sight.

Q. How was he cloathed at that time? - I think he had a striped great coat, what the under coat was I cannot tell.

Mr. Knowlys. The stage from Bristol is to Bath? - Yes.

Q. Did you open the box when you got to Bath? I did.

Q. It generally is locked? - I never lock it when I sit there, but in general when I leave I lock it; I locked it while I was gone to the office at Bath.

Q. I do not know how many stages there are from that to Marlborough? - We make four stages from Bristol to Marlborough, and three from Bath.

Q. During all which places you left the coach? - Yes, at each place, at Chippenham, and at Calne.

Q. You left it at the inn door? - Yes.

Q. You went quite out of sight from it there? - I was out of sight of it at Chippenham.

Q. You went quite out of sight from it then? - I was out of sight of it at Chippenham, but not at Calne, I did not leave it out of my sight as I know of; I stooped down and chucked the three out from my hand, and took the other three bags up as I went along.

Court. How long might you leave at Chippenham? - About three minutes.

Mr. Knowlys. I think you say that sometimes you stand on the spring and open the boxes; do you stand pretty high above the box then? - I put my foot on the spring.

Q. That is a dangerous thing to a a person, when the coach is going pretty fast? - It is a dangerous thing.

Q. Of course made dangerous to a person who is not accustomed to do it? - Of course.

Q. You say the coach was going at a quick rate? - The roads run well that night.

Q. I think you say the prisoner got your place at your desire; you found him satigued? - Yes, I told him I did not care if he rode four or five miles in my place.

Mr. Fielding. When you was at Bath you took in a fresh bag of Letters there? - Yes, the London and Bath bag.

Q. When you left the box you locked the box? - I did.

Q. When you returned with the bag from Bath, did you lock it then? - I did not.

Court. Calne, the place where he changed seats, to where he got on the box, is all in the country of Wilts? - It is.

THOMAS HAWKINS sworn.

Q. You are the guard that came in the place of the last witness to Marlborough? - Yes.

Q. Look at the young man at the bar? - It is the same person.

Q. In what situation did you place yourself when the coach went from Marlborough? - I was on the mail box, in my proper situation.

Q. Was that mail box open or shut? - Shut, not locked.

Q. How far did you ride in this situation before you altered the situation? - Near a mile and a half.

Q. That brought you to Marlborough Hill? - Yes. Lewis Williams told me that the prisoner at the bar was with him in the morning, of course he appeared much fatigued.

Q. Don't tell us the conversation. What did you do? - He left his situation, on the coach box, and got on the roof of the coach, and I got on the coach box; I saw he was fatigued, and I was afraid he would fall down and cause some delay.

Q. You had given him liberty? - I told him he might ride in my situation for a stage or two, if he pleased; on the top of Marlborough hill we generally pull up to give the horses a little wind, it is a steep hill, and in that place we changed stations.

Q. Was your place an easier one than on the roof of the coach? - Much easier; and that was the reason, seeing him fatigued, I offered it to him.

Q. I understood, from the former witness, that your place is on the spring? - Yes, there is a spring.

Q. How far do you think you went, he in your station, and you on the box? - On the whole twenty seven miles.

Q. From Marlborough Hill, how far did you go? - To near Thackum.

Q. How long might you be going there? - Perhaps we might be two hours going, our horses were to be changed at Hungerford.

Q. How many miles is it from Marlborough Hill to Hungerford? - Eight miles.

Q. How long were you changing horses at Hungerford? - Five minutes, generally more.

Q. What became of you and the coach while you were changing horses? - The coachman staid with the coach all the time, and I went in and exchanged the bags, but I was not long, I had a basket to leave there.

Q. Do you know whether he staid in your station while you went with the bags? - I left him, to the best of my knowledge, in my station while I went to the post office, which I was not gone more than two minutes to the furthest.

Q. When you had got the letter bag that you took from the post office, what did you do with it? - We had a road sack, which contains the Chippenham, and Calne bags, and we put it in that sack, and if he did not get down before he got down then, for me to put the sack in, and a basket of fish, which I had to leave at Hungerford.

Q. When you had put your bags in, what seats did you both take? - He got in my station where he had been before, and I got on the coach box.

Q. Then when you came to Hungerford, you went on to the next stage? - We went on to Newbury.

Q. Did he keep in the same station? - He did.

Q. What hour do you think you got to Newbury? - Twenty minutes after eleven o'clock.

Q. What time do you think it was when you was at Hungerford? - Half past ten o'clock, or rather better.

Q. It was quite dark? - Yes, we had our lamps lighted before we came out of Marlborough.

Q. What part of the coach do the lamps fix to? - To the fore part, on the body of the coach.

Q. When you arrived at Newbury was any alteration made there? - None at all; I had my little bag in my hands, and I took the two bags from there, and kept on the coach box with them in my hand.

Q. What alteration was made in your seats at Newbury? - None at all.

Q. You went on from that stage to the next? - Yes, till within two miles of Thackum, when we changed situations

again, when I got to my own; there the coachman, Doughty, said, you had better get in your own station; which I did, and Mr. Thomas got over the roof of the coach on to the coach box.

Q. And so you came in to Thackhum? - Yes.

Q. How long were you going that stage? - About twenty minutes.

Q. And there you got down? - Yes, and passengers altogether.

Q. And he got off the coach box with the rest? - Yes, and went into the room with the rest of the passengers.

Q. What time might it be then? - About twelve o'clock.

Q. Had you any mail to take up at Thackum? - We always exchange bags there; we always put the Reading and Maidenhead bags together.

Q. Before you left your seat, when you arrived at Thackum, you took the bags out? - Yes.

Q. When you was on your seat? - Yes, as soon as the coach stopped, I opened the lid of the mail box, before I got down. We never quit the seat to lift up the lid of the mail box.

Q. By the sack, do you mean a single sack that contains all the mails? - No; that sack that contains the Bristol mail was all this while laying at the bottom of the box.

Q. Then you took out the road sack, that was not the sack that contained the Bristol mail, that lay still at the bottom? - Yes, in the mail box.

Q. You had nothing to do with the Bristol mail after you had taken it into Bristol, till it came to the post office? - No.

Q. What situation did you place yourself when you left Thackum? - When I left Thackum I was in my proper situati, on, and Thomas was on the coach box.

Q. Thackum is in Berks? - Yes.

Q. How far did you go in that situation? - To Reading, all the way.

Q. What time did you arrive at Reading? - Near two o'clock.

Q. It still continued dark? - Yes.

Q. When you arrived at Reading, what did you do there? - I left the Reading bag there.

Q. Where do you get the Reading bag from? - From a window; the coach draws up close to a window there, within five yards, and I left the Reading bag there, and took the London bag.

Q. Where did you get the Reading bag from? - Out of the mail box, as I was going along; as soon as I had taken in the London and Reading bag, I told Mr. Thomas he might ride again a few miles in my situation; I left these small bags at Reading, which I got from the towns, as I came along.

Q. Did you deposit these bags you had from Reading in your box? - Yes, I did. At Reading I told Mr. Thomas he might ride a few miles in my situation again, he rode till he came to Hare Hatch, seven miles.

Q. And you changing your situation, got on the box? - Yes, at Hare Hatch, I told Mr. Thomas he must get on to the box again, which he did, and I got in my situation; about half a mile on this side the coachman and I exchanged situations, the coachman got in my situation, and I took the reins, and Mr. Thomas sitting by the side of me.

Q. What is the name of that coachman? - John Lancaster .

Q. How far did you go in this situation, you driving on the box and the coachman sitting in your situation? - To Colnbrook, about fifteen miles; I said to Mr. Thomas, between Maidenhead and Slough, I thought I had the pleasure of knowing his face, I had frequently seen him before; he said very likely I might. About a mile or a mile and a half further than that he asked me if I recollected coming up with me about a week or ten

days before, between Maidenhead and Slough? I told him we had a great many passengers, but I did not immediately recollect his face; he says, I shall tell you a circumstance, and then you will recollect me, that was, there were no other passenger but myself, all the way.

Q. Did this circumstance lead you to recollect him at all? - Yes, it did.

Q. Did he say whether he was an inside or outside passenger? - No, when he told me that I recollected him at Colnbrook asking me how far it was to London, or something of that kind. We came in that situation to Colnbrook, I driving and John Lancaster in the guard's situation.

Q. No further conversation? - No more than that that is material? - No more than that; but this circumstance enabled me to recollect him, and I looked at him stedfastly in the face.

Q. When you got to Colnbrook, what station had each of you taken? - We stopped at a house in Colnbrook, about two or three hundred yards before we changed horses, to have some beer; the coachman then took his station, and I got in mine, Thomas on the box; Mr. Thomas rode on the box all the way from Hare Hatch to London, Mr. Thomas came on the box then.

Q. How far altogether had it been when you took the reins and the coachman was in your station? - Near fifteen miles.

Q. Then you came on to town? - Yes.

Q. What time did you get to town? - I think, to the best of my knowledge, about a quarter before seven we got to Hyde Park Corner.

Q. What is done then? - We arrived at Gloucester Coffee House.

Q. Where did Mr. Thomas get down? - Mr. Thomas got down at Hyde Park Corner.

Q. It was light at that time? - It was light at that time, when we got from Maidenhead it was getting light apace then.

Q. Had he any luggage to take with him from the coach? - I did not recollect, if he had it was very trifling.

Q. As soon as the coach arrives, there is a horse and cart waiting ready, the mail was then taken out of the coach and put in that small cart? - I took the mail out of the coach and put it in the cart, and went with the cart.

Q. You went then on the morning of the 4th of October with the mail to the post office? - Yes, and there are men waiting there to take the bags and deliver them to the office.

Q. Did you deliver up your charge completely to another person there, or was you present to see the sack opened? - I did not see that.

Q. Your business is done when you give the sack in? - It is.

Q. You delivered the sack with its contents? - Yes, with the road sack. At Colnbrook I locked up the mail box, and so it continued all the way to London; I had nothing more to do till I got to London, at the Gloucester Coffee house.

Q. Then you had completely discharged your duty when you had delivered this into the post office? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. I should ask you two or three questions only. Your humanity, and the lenity he received from the last guard, led you to give the prisoner an easier situation to what he had? - Yes.

Q. Seeing him very fatigued, perhaps sleepy, it led you to offer him your place? - Yes.

Q. That is considerably easier than the box? - It is.

Q. The box is not the easiest place? - No, it is not, it is on the wheels, and mine is on the springs.

Q. You say that at Marlborough there is a considerable ascent, you are obliged to pull up? - We generally trot up and pull up at the top.

Q. At that time you changed stations? - Yes.

Q. Then you was in your right station? - No, I was on the box.

Q. Then you came to Thackum? - Yes.

Q. That is the place where the mails meet? - No, we meet before that, we sup there; the passengers take what refreshment they please.

Q. Your bax was open when you arrived there? - Yes.

Q. And the coach was left in the yard all the time they were at supper? - Yes.

Q. Were there a good many people at the inn? - Yes, the Bath and Exeter supped that night there too.

Q. You say you took the road sack out there? - Yes.

Q. The road sack, you told the gentlemen of the jury, did not contain the Bristol mail bag? - No, it did not.

Q. Then you went on to Hare Hatch? - We went on to Reading.

Q. Then when you came to the other side of Hare Hatch the coachman and you changed? - Mr. Thomas and I changed before, seven miles.

Q. The coachman went all the way to Colnbrook? - Yes.

Q. At Colnbrook you locked the box? - Yes.

Q. Then all the time before, during the time the coachman was in that place, the box was open? - It was.

Q. When you got to Hyde Park Corner the prisoner got down? - He did, as soon as we got through the turnpike.

Q. The stones began there; it is not so pleasant to ride as on the road? - By no means.

Q. It is not a usual thing for travellers to get down at the stones end? - Sometimes it is.

Q. Had he got any luggage at all? - Not that I know of.

Q. He seems to have taken particular care to make you know him? - He asked me those questions.

Q. Did not he say that he had been down to Bristol on business before? - He did not.

Q. So that he took, in short, great pains to make you recollect him? - He took this pains that I have related.

Q. He said he had gone all the way to London by himself, was that so? - I cannot answer to that, he came from Marlborough by himself.

JOHN LANCASTER sworn.

Q. You was the coachman of the Bristol mail coach? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember the young man at the bar? - Yes; I have very little recollection of him.

Q. Do you remember where you shifted places with the last witness? - At Hare Hatch, I think.

Q. How far did you ride in his station and he drove your horses? - Between fourteen and fifteen miles.

Q. You rode in the situation of guard, how many miles? - Fifteen miles from Hare Hatch, to just before I came to Colnbrook.

Q. When you was in the seat of the guard, did any thing happen to the mail box? - No, nothing at all.

Court. Did it happen to occur in your observation whether it was locked or no? - I do not know whether it was locked or not.

Mr. Fielding. You did not take much notice? - None at all, it was in the night.

Court. I want to know whether you observed the mail box was locked? - I did not.

Mr. Fielding. Look at the gentleman at the bar; was that the gentleman that got down from your box? - That was the gentleman, I believe, I could not recollect much of his face.

THOMAS SMART sworn.

Q. Was you employed in the post office on the morning of the 4th of October? - Yes.

Q. Did you, in the course of your employment there that morning, receive the sack containing the Bristol mail? - I took all the bags that were in the cart in my care, when Hawkins, the guard, came up to the post office with the mail to the door; Hawkins got out of the place in the cart, and I got up in the cart, and delivered the bags out of the cart to two porters, who carried them to the office.

Q. Then you took out of the cart which Hawkins brought, all the bags that were in it, and among those were the Bristol bag? - I should suppose so; I did not see particularly the Bristol bag.

Q. Do you know what the porters did with them? - They delivered them to the office.

Mr. Knowlys to Hawkins. Does your memory serve you to say whether he told you or not where he lived? - He did not; the conversation that past was this, I thought I had the pleasure of seeing him before; he said, very likely.

RICHARD NIGHTINGALE sworn.

I am a porter in the post office.

Q. Do you remember, on the morning the 4th of October, Mr. Smart giving you a bag to carry into the post office? - Yes.

Q. Where did you go with it? - I took it in the post office, to the clerk.

Q. Do you know which of the clerks was there to receive it? - I do not know his name.

Q. Did you carry the Bristol bag? - I received two, there were five or six of them.

Q. Do you know whether the Bristol bag was delivered to you or the other porter? - I cannot say.

JOHN MERRITT sworn.

Q. You are a porter in the post office? - Yes.

Q. You received the bags from Mr. Smart on the morning of the 4th of October; did you carry them into the post office? - I did; Mr. Smart loaded us at the door, and we carried up the Bristol, Worcester and Taunton bags; and when we got them into the inland office, we always call out what bag it is, and throw them down, that is all we do.

CHARLES READ sworn.

Q. Was you on the 4th of October employed in the post office in London? - Yes.

Q. Did you in your employment that morning, open the Bristol sack? - I did.

Q. When you opened the sack did you observe any thing particular? - On turning out the sack, I observed the Bristol bag to be untied.

Q. Was it unsealed or sealed? - Unsealed, neither tied nor sealed.

Q. Was that the state it ought to have been in; or ought it to have been tied and sealed? - It ought to have been tied and sealed.

THOMAS FRY sworn.

Q. You are clerk to Mr. Protherow at Bristol? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember any notes being sent on October the 3d, to come to town? - Yes.

Q. Did you make the entry in the books, or the other clerk, of the notes that were to come to Mr. Thornton? - No, Mr. Hemson did.

Q. Was it Mr. Hemson's business to enter them? - Yes.

- HEMSON sworn.

Q. Did you send any letter to Mr. Thornton? - I did.

Q. Did you make an entry of the notes you put in that letter? - I did, I entered them in this book, which is called the banker's ledger.

Q. Sent by what post? - The 3d of October last; on the 3d of October there was a letter to be sent to Henry Thornton , Esq. P. M. he belonged to the house of Dunn and company.

Q. Do you remember that letter in which you were to put in the bank notes and the other bills? - I do, I enclosed the notes in the letter.

Q. Tell me what notes you put there, the number you enclosed in that cover? - They were entered by Mr. Fry in this book.

Q. Did you put down the notes, or how is it you are enabled to speak to the notes, is it by the number and other descriptions that you put down? - I know there were such notes sent that day.

Q. Did you make a memorandum yourself, or did Fry the other clerk? - Fry did.

Q. Did you put them into the letter yourself, with your own hands, or how are you able to say what the notes were that you enclosed; did you take a memorandum yourself? - No further than in the banker's ledger.

Q. I ask you now to tell me what the notes were; if you took any memorandum at the time that will be proper evidence, if you did not, tell me who did; what memorandum is that, why don't you tell me and the court who made that entry? - I made it.

Q. Is that the entry of the notes that you put in that letter? - It is.

Q. How much did you send altogether; what is the total amount? - Forty-one bills. (Looks at a paper.)

Mr. Knowlys. Is that your own hand writing?

Mr. Fielding. He hath said so.

Witness. Forty-one bills, nine hundred and twelve pounds one shilling and eleven pence.

Q. In order to make out this sum, they were several notes? - They were.

Q. How many notes? - Forty-one.

Q. How many bank notes, have you an entry of that? - Ten bank notes, one hundred ninety pounds, eight post notes, fifty-six pounds five shillings, and there were twenty-three others.

Q. Are they so in your book? - No, they are particularized to their different sums.

Q. Making how much in the whole? - The whole making nine hundred and twelve pounds one shilling and eleven-pence.

Q. In all there are ten bank notes? - There are.

Q. You say the bank notes and post notes in all made this nine hundred and twelve pounds one shilling and eleven-pence? - They do.

Q. Who made the entry of the specific notes that were sent? - Mr. Fry.

Q. To Fry. Have you got an entry of these notes? - I copied them from these very bills, separate.

Q. These are the notes that Mr. Hemson put in this ledger? - Yes.

Q. Will you be so good as to read the memorandum it self, each separate one? - No. 8881, August 11th 1794, ten pounds; 6677, April 27th, 1792, ten pounds; 2455, May 13th, 1794, ten pounds; 1417, February 25th, 1793, ten pounds; 2170, May 16th, 1793, ten pounds; 1737, April 30th, 1793, ten pounds; 8147, March 29th, 1794, ten pounds; 8039, August 1st, 1794, twenty pounds; 3800, June 3d, 1794, fifty pounds; 5040, June 4th, 1794, fifty pounds; the whole amounting to one hundred and ninety pounds.

Q. To Hemson. Did you seal this letter and direct it? - I sealed it, we generally have franks ready made.

Q. Who delivered it to the post office? - I delivered it to Mr. Fry to be sent by the post.

Q. Upon the 3d of October? - I did.

Q. To Fry. That letter on the 3d of October that you got from Mr. Hemson; what did you do with it? - I put it in the office between twenty minutes and half after three, the office was shut.

Mr. Knowly. You say you did not see the letter directed? - I did not see it directed, I know it was directed to Henry Thornton , Esq. member of parliament , London.

Court. Do you mean member of parliament or M. P? - M. P. that was the exact direction.

Mr. Hemson. I beg leave to say a few words, it is something in behalf of my employers.

Court. Any thing that is material, either to the cause of the prosecutor, or in defence of the prisoner, it is my duty to hear? - It is to make a claim of the hundred pounds.

HIGGIN BOULD sworn.

Q. I believe you live at Bristol? - I did.

Q. Did you on the 3d of October send a letter containing a bank note? - I did.

Q. Now, sir, unto whom was the letter addressed? - Birch, Chambers and Hobbs, bankers.

Q. Describe how you directed it? - To Messrs. Birch, Chambers, bankers, London for Messrs. Birch, Chambers and Co. leaving out Hobbs.

Q. What was the note that was enclosed in the letter? - A ten pounds bank note.

Q. Have you the particulars of the ten pounds bank note that you enclosed? Is that your own hand writing? - It is my own hand writing, (Reads) Received from James Johnson the 3d of October 1794, No. 89, the 8th of October 1793, ten pounds.

Q. And you enclosed this note in this letter? - I did.

Q. Did you seal it? - I put a wafer on it.

Q. What did you do with it? - I took it to the post office myself.

Q. Did you put it in the post office? - I did.

Q. What time? - It must be within a quarter of three.

Q. Either before or after? - Before the hour.

Q. Before the hour of the post shutting up at Bristol? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. You say you are not certain whether it was directed for Messrs. Birch, Chambers and Hobbs, bankers, London, or Messrs. Birch, Chambers and Co? - I rather think it was for Messrs. Birch, Chambers and Hobbs, bankers, London.

Q. Did you make the entry yourself at the time? - I did.

Q. Was that before you sent the letter? - Yes. I have other marks upon the note, a number of my own, likewise the man's name on the face of it that I received it from.

JAMES FRY sworn.

Q. You are clerk of the post office at Bristol? - Yes.

Q. Did it fall to you to make up the Bristol bag on the 3d of October? - It did

Q. What time of the day did you make it up? - About three minutes before four o'clock.

Q. When you had put the letters in the mail bag did you tie it and seal it both? - I did.

Q. When it was so done, did you deliver it to the guard of the mail coach? -

Yes, I took and put it in the sack and delivered it to Williams.

Q. To Williams. You took the bag from this gentleman, Mr. Fry? - I did.

Mr. Knowlys to Fry. Of course you did not see the particular directions of the letters you made up? - I cannot.

Q. What is this office, is it a distinct office or public shop? - It is a peculiar office.

Q. How many persons attended at that office? - There are three clerks attend besides myself.

JOHN CORNWALL sworn.

Q. I believe you are one of the partners in the house of Dunn, Thornton, and Co. bankers? - I am.

Q. Did your house, on the 4th of October, receive a letter from Messrs. Ireland, Protherow and Co. at Bristol, containing some bank notes and others? - No, none.

Q. Mr. Henry Thornton being a partner in that house, the letters are addressed to him? - They are.

Q. Being a member of parliament the letters are franked with his name? - Yes, they are.

Q. I suppose very soon after the 4th you discovered that such a letter had miscarried? - I think not till the Wednesday.

Q. What day of the week was the 4th? - On a Saturday.

Q. What day of the month was it? - The eighth.

Q. You have correspondence with the house of Ireland and Protherow? - Yes, we have.

Mr. Knapp to Mr. Cornwall. In point of fact, since the prisoner has been in custody, have you not received intelligence about other notes from Bristol, in an anonimous letter? - Yes, we have; it was Mr. Free that opened that letter.

Court. Is Mr. Free of your house? - Yes, he is one of the partners.

Q. In point of fact you heard that there had been a letter received by Mr. Free, of some notes that were found? - They came in that letter.

Q. To what amount? - I do not recollect in the least.

Q. Do you know how many notes? - I do not.

Q. This letter, in point of fact, appears to have come from Bristol? - I think it did.

Q. Do you know how long this was after the prisoner was apprehended? - I cannot say.

Q. Had he been examined once or twice or more? - I cannot say.

BIRCH sworn.

Q. I believe you are of the house of Birch, Chambers, and Hobbs, bankers? - I am.

Q. Did you on the 4th of October receive a letter from Bristol, from Messrs. Bould and Bond of Bristol, containing a ten pounds bank note? - I did not.

Q. They are correspondents of your's? - Yes, they are, I do not know them personally at all.

Q. Did you within any, and in what time after the 4th, discover that a bill and a letter ought to have come to hand? - On the 9th we received a letter stating that they had sent a note.

Q. Was that the first time you discovered that it had miscarried? - I was.

- BICKERSTAFF sworn.

Q. I believe you are of the house of Messrs. Dorsets and Co. bankers in Bond-street? - Yes.

Q. Do you know the young man at the bar? - Yes.

Q. When was it he first came to your house? - On the 7th of October.

Q. Did he come in company with any other person? - He came in company along with Mr. Seger's son.

Q. Mr. Seger keeps cash at your house? - He does.

Q. What did he come there himself for? - He came to open an account.

Q. Did he open an account? - Yes.

Q. What did he lodge with you yourself? - Did you take it of him? - Yes, I took it of him, he gave me two hundred and sixty-three pounds nineteen shillings and six-pence, in money, and bank notes, and drafts of country bank bills, excepting two bills that were not due.

Q. First of all tell me the whole amount of that he paid in? - Two hundred and sixty-three pounds nine shillings and sixpence, in country bank bills and money, that we call cash, leaving the bills that were not due out of the question.

Q. Be so good as to look at the particular memorandums that you have, and tell me the number of the bank notes first? - I did not make the entry particularly of the numbers, it is another clerk that did that, I only took the whole amount, and gave it over to the other clerk to take the particulars, the other clerk is Mr. Ashley.

Q. All the notes that you received from Thomas you turned over to that clerk? - I did.

Mr. Knowlys. I believe in consequence of some alarm that was spread about some notes, the prisoner came to your house to enquire about them openly and publickly? - Yes, he did.

Q. When did he come? - Upon my word I cannot recollect, I rather suppose it was the 8th; no, it must be after that, it must be the 8th or 9th, I cannot say whether it was the 8th or 9th, because he brought in another sum on the 8th.

Q. On the 7th it was that he transacted this business and lodged this sum? - Yes.

Q. On the 8th he lodged another sum? - Yes.

Q. After that he came to your house and made some enquiry about it; was it on the 9th or on the 8th? - I think it must be on the 9th in the morning.

Q. What enquiry did he come to make? - He came to enquire about some particulars of Mr. Thornton's clerk coming up to our house to enquire a number of a note, he did not enquire of me, I saw him in the house.

Q. Did you hear what it was that past between him and any body else? - I only understood so.

Q. Did you understand it from him or any body else? - I heard it from him, but I did not attend particularly to the thing because I was busy, I did not speak to him of the particular of his enquiry at that time.

Q. Did you know what clerk it was he held any sort of conversation at all with? - Yes, his name is Armstrong.

Q. Is he here now? - No.

Q. You think it was on the 9th in the morning? - Yes, it was.

JAMES ASHLEY sworn.

Q. Did you receive from the last witness the different notes as cash that were brought by the prisoner at the bar to your house? - I did.

Q. Did you make a memorandum of them at the time? - I have brought the book with me on which this entry is made.

Q. Is the entry of your own hand writing? - It is.

Q. Be so good as to specify the particulars which you took down at the time, and slow? - The first article is, fifty-seven pounds nine shillings and six-pence, particularized by the word money; the next article is, a five guinea bill on Sanderson, with the number; the next is another of

five guineas, and another five guineas on Morrison; the next is, a fifty pounds bank note, 3800 June 3d, 1794; the next is, a ten pounds bank note, 7656, August 30th; another ten pounds, 236; a ten pounds, 5633; a twenty pounds, 5176; a fifteen pounds, 1919; a ten pounds, 8, October the 8th, 1793.

Mr. Russell to the Court. That is the one that Bould produced.

Ashley. Another of ten pounds, 6677, April 27th, 1792; another of ten pounds, 2445, May 13th, 1794; another ten pounds, 1417, February 22, 1793; a ten pounds, 2170, May 16, 1793; and a ten pounds, 8881, August the 11th 1794.

Q. What day were these different notes that you have been specifying deposited at your house? - On the 7th of October.

Q. Did he on the next day bring any more money? - I understood he did.

Q. Show the entry in the book? - Yes, but I did not make the entry.

Mr. Knapp. Then I understand there were a great number of bank notes paid in that day, as well as the subject of the prisent enquiry as other bank notes? - Yes.

Q. How many are paid in besides those that Mr. Russell asked you to specify? - I cannot tell, by the book it appears to be twelve in the whole.

Q. In short there was cash and other bills? - Yes.

Q. What is the amount of that paid on the 8th? - I believe it is one hundred and forty-four pounds something.

HENRY BARNES sworn.

Q. I believe you live in Princes-street, Soho? - Yes.

Q. You carry on the business of a grocer there? - Yes.

Q. How long have you been acquainted with the prisoner? - He succeeded me when I left Mr. Harwood.

Q. How long ago? - It might be four or five years, I very often bought goods of Mr. Harwood, and he used to bring them on his back to my house.

Q. What was Mr. Harwood? - Mr. Harwood was a grocer.

Q. What was the prisoner in the month of October last? - A grocer.

Q. Carrying on business on his own account there? - Yes.

Q. Where did he live then? - In Denmark-street, Soho.

Q. Had you any money transactions with him on the 7th of October? - Yes, I had; there was a bill that was due, and I had a large sum of money to pay, more then I had in the house, I asked the prisoner if he could let me have thirty pounds.

Q. Was there any account between you and the prisoner? - Now I have balanced it, there was due to me at that time twenty-six pounds.

Q. However, you applied to him for the sum of thirty pounds? - I did.

Q. What did he give to you? - He gave me a twenty pound bank note, a ten pound bank note, and a note of ten pounds on the Tewksbury bank; I refused the Tewkskury bill of exchange, and he said, perhaps as I was going to pay a bill, and probably had some bank notes and some cash, some of the cash might be light, and it would not be amiss of me to make use of this ten pounds in payment.

Q. As I understand you, it was by his particular desire that you took the Tewksbury note in addition? - It was.

Q. What did you do with the money you had so received from the prisoner? - I took it home, and the moment I got in my house I paid to the clerk of Messrs. Dunn, Thornton and Co. a bill of fifty-one pounds.

Q. Did you use the whole forty pounds in that payment? - Yes, the whole of it, some to the house of Bartlets, I believe the twenty pounds bill of exchange went to Bartlet's house.

Q. What did you pay, at your house, to Mr. Dunn's clerk? - The ten pounds together with other money of my own.

Q. To John Scott . I want you to look out this Tewksbury bank note.

Q. To Barnes. Before you open this Tewksbury bank note, did you put your own name on it? - Yes, the clerk objected to it, said it was not customary to take such (The note produced by Scott)

Q. Be so good as to look at this paper. - This is the Tewksbury note, it has my name on it, but the others I did not take the number nor the date.

Mr. Knowlys. You had received a good deal of money to pay these bankers that day. Can you charge your memory whether you did not receive that Tewsbury bill from any other quarter? - Yes, I can be certain I did not, because all the others I took notice of.

Q. How long have you known the prisoner? - Four or five years.

Q. What character does he merit from you? - I thought him an honest man, or else I would not have dealt with him.

Q. In your dealings you have had with him he merits that character from you? - The earlier part when we began business, we dealed a great deal.

WILLIAM TAYLOR sworn.

I am a clerk in the house of Messrs. Dunn, Thornton, and Free.

Q. Had you any occasion, on the 7th of October, to receive a ten pounds bank note, and another note of Mr. Barnes? - I had.(Produces a book that has the entry)

Mr. Knapp. Did you make that entry yourself that you are going to read? - Yes.

Q. When did you make it? - I made it at the time. (Reads) No. 8, 147, ten pounds Bank of England.

Q. You did not take the date? - I did not.

Q. Will you be so good as to look at the bank note? - I know the note by writing Barnes's name on it.

Q. What did that import? - That I received the note from Barnes.

Q. Therefore you are absolutely certain that that is the note you received? - I am absolutely certain.

WILLIAM HAYTER sworn.

I am a clerk in the house of Messrs. Bartlets and Co.

Q. On the seventh of October did you receive a note of Mr. Henry Barnes ? - I did.

Q. Have you got the particulars of it? - No, I have not. (A note shewn him.) This is the note, I know it by my writing on the back of it, Barnes the 7th of the tenth months; it is the practice of the out door clerks so to write, we most of us do it.

Q. You are sure that is one you received from Barnes on the 7th of October? - Yes, I am sure of it, 8, 039, August 1, 1794, twenty pounds.

Q. To Scott. Produce those other papers that you have there.(Produces some notes.)

ANTHONY PARKINS sworn.

I am solicitor to the post office.

Q. Was you present at any time when the prisoner was examined, after he was taken into custody? - On Thursday, the 9th day of October, having been informed that one of the bank notes, taken out of the Bristol mail, had appeared at the bank, and that it had been traced to the prisoner at the bar; I went to his house on the 9th, and asked him where he got that note?

Q. Do you remember the number of the note? - I do not recollect the number of the note. He said he received it on Monday evening of a person who was a stranger to him, and who made use of the name of a neighbour of his, of, I think, the name of Wordman; he said he gave cash for it, that in a few minutes the same man came in again and asked for change for other bank notes, which he likewise gave him; that in a few minutes more the same man returned again with a similar request, and he changed those that he brought the third time; that he came the fourth time with the same request with others, and that he complied with that request also; that he came a fifth, and that he believed he came a sixth time with a similar request, that he gave him cash in the whole to the amount of one hundred pounds, or upwards, he believed. I then told him it was my duty to take him to the public office in Bow-street; I intreated a friend of his to go there with us, who was a Mr. Seger, a friend of his; he came in while I was in his house, and I requested him to accompany him to Bow-street, which he did, and he underwent an examination.

Q. He went with you readily? - Very ready, not the least hesitation about it.

Q. Did you attend the examination? - Yes.

Q. Have you got the examination that was taken before the magistrate? - Yes, I have.

Q. Had you any conversation with the prisoner, as to the length of time he had the notes, which were deposited with the Bankers, in his possession? - Those whom he described to have received from a person, he described to have received on the Monday before the conversation. He also said that several of the notes, which he paid into Dorsets, the banker's, he had had by him some time before.

Q. He did not describe more particularly what he meant by some time before? - He did not.

Q. Before whom was he examined? - Mr. Addington.

Q. (Producing a paper) Are those minutes, minutes that were taken down at the time? - They are the minutes that I took down at the time, by the direction of the magistrate, from his own mouth; at first when it was read over to him, he said, it was true, at the second examination he said, that that observation what he said before of his being at Croydon was not true; upon which Mr. Addington discontinued reading it.

Q. There was not in any stage of the proceeding any examination signed formally by the magistrate? - None, there was no examination but this paper.

Mr. Knowlys objected to this being received as evidence, because neither the prisoner nor the magistrate had signed it, said it was not parrallel with Lamb's case in the Borough, because there, though the magistrate did not sign, the prisoner signed it.

Court. I see no doubt on it being evidence, the same as he might have spoken to any other man.

Mr. Knapp. In Lamb's case the magistrate had it taken down, and afterwards the prisoner refused to sign it.

Court. In Lamb's case the court said, that if this is not evidence, the court must adopt this monstrous proposition, that whatever the prisoner says, when not before the magistrate, depending on the precarious memory of the thief-takers should be evidence against him, but the moment he gets before the magistrate it is not evidence, where certainly it ought to have the most weight, because it is given with all the solemnity possible.

Mr. Garrow. Before we read it we will learn the stage of transaction it was taken in. The prisoner was examined in the forenoon before Mr. Addington? - It was at that time.

Q. At that time what you have delivered to paper, was delivered by the mouth of the prisoner himself? - It was, before dinner.

Q. Before he withdrew was that paper read over to him. - It was, by Mr. Addington

Q. Deliberately? - Deliberately.

Q. What did the prisoner say of its contents? - He admitted it to be true.

Q. After an interval of some hours he was re examined? - In the evening. Then the magistrate proposed to read it again, and desired he would mention if it was incorrect in any respect, or if it wanted any alteration or correction.

Q. That, I conclude, was with a view to be signed by him if he had chose it? - I suppose so. The magistrate began to read it. When the magistrate read about six lines of it, he said, that what he had related was not true, for that he had not been at Croydon, as was mentioned in his examination.

Q. That was the false fact that he represented to state in that paper on his first examination, what was done on that? - He said also that he was at Bristol, in the mail coach, on Thursday preceding that day of the week; on that Mr. Addington said he should not proceed further on reading this examination as it was untrue in its onset. I made a memorandum on the back of the paper, for my better recollection of the circumstance.

Q. In the forenoon of that Thursday had there been any charge whether the prisoner had been at Bristol? - The Thursday before I think there was no positive charge, but he was desired to speak in the forenoon, where he was on Thursday and Friday before.

Q. Had he disclosed that he had been at Bristol? - No, he did not, he was questioned where he was on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, 2d, 3d, and 4th, of November, with a view -

Q. So that in the forenoon he had been questioned where he had been those days? - He was.

Q. And in the forenoon he had not represented that he had been at Bristol those days? - He did not.

Q. Did he represent where he had been? - He said he had been at Croydon Fair on Thursday.(Read by the clerk of the court.)

"Middlesex. The examination of Thomas Thomas , of Denmark-street, in the parish of St. Giles in the Fields, in the country of Middlesex, grocer ; taken before me, William Addington , Esq. one of his Majesty's justices of the peace for the said country, this 9th of October 1794, who says, That he left his house about seven o'clock on Thursday evening last, and went to Charing Cross, where the Croydon coach goes from; that he went on the top of the Croydon coach, and arrived at Croydon between eleven and twelve o'clock at night, was set down in the street, was booted; that he went into the fair, and continued there till the morning, and did not go to bed; continued at Croydon till about eight o'clock on Friday night, and not being able to get a coach, walked the whole way to town; stopped at a public house at Stretham, at about ten o'clock, where he drank a pint of beer, and arrived in London about twelve o'clock, and went directly home, and let himself in with the key of the street door, which he had with him, and went directly to bed; saw no person in the house, arose a little before seven the next morning, just as the boys were opening the

shop; one of Sander's men, the hair dresser, came and dressed him by half after seven o'clock; staid at home the greatest part of the day, and also the next day, Sunday, Mr. and Mrs. Ferguson, from No. 3, Duke's-court, Bow-street and their daughter dined with him; was at home almost the whole day on Monday; about half past six on Monday evening last, a person, a stranger to him, came to his house and asked him if he could oblige Mr. and Mrs. Wigman with cash for a ten pound bank note? he gave the man cash for it; he went away and in less than ten minutes came again, and said, he saw that he had plenty of cash, and desired cash for another ten pound bank note, which he gave him; the man went away, and came again in ten minutes, and asked for change for another bank note, does not know what was the sum, but gave him cash for it; the man went away, and came again in a very few minutes and brought more notes, which he changed by giving cash; thinks the man came a sixth time, and he gave him cash for other notes; the whole amount of the cash, that the examinant gave to the man, was upwards of a hundred pounds. The man with whom the examinant had the above transactions was a tall thin man, middle aged, his hair tied behind, dark colour, wore a black coat and waistcoat, round hat; saw him on Tuesday morning pass by, says, he passed also Mr. Wigman's house, but he did not go in there.

Mr. Knowlys. He said that what you had taken down about Croydon was not true, and he refused to sign it? - He was not asked to sign it.

Q. With respect to the notes that were at the bankers, Dorset's, he said that some of them he had had by him some considerable time? - He did.

Q.There was a considerable number of notes besides those that you call in question? - It does appear so.

Mr. Knowlys here proposed three objections upon which this case was incompetent to go to a jury. First, that they had not proved any letter was taken from the mail in the country of Middlesex, as required by the statute. Second, That the indictment had not stated the letter so directed as proved; namely, stealing it to be directed to Henry Thornton , Esq. M. P. London; and thirdly, the witness not knowing whether the letter to Messrs. Birch, Chambers, and Hobbs was so directed, or to Messrs. Birch, Chambers, and Co.

Mr. Knapp spoke on the same side.

Mr. Garrow, Fielding, and Russell answered the arguments; and Mr. Knowlys replied.

And the court agreed to take the opinion of the jury as to the fact; and leave the point of law to the opinion of the twelve judges, should the jury find the prisoner guilty of the fact.

The prisoner called thirteen witnesses who gave him an excellent character.

GUILTY . (Aged. 24.)

Jury. We do not believe he took the letters out of the bag in the country of Middlesex.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-6

6. THOMAS PEARCE otherwise PRICE was again indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 19th of January , two promissory notes, value 40l. the property of Martha Davies .

There was no prosecution, and the prisoner was ACQUITTED .

Reference Number: t17941208-7

7. WILLIAM HILL was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 27th of March , fourteen guineas; the monies of Thomas Whitaker , in the dwelling house of Edward West .(The case opened by Mr. Knapp.)

THOMAS WHITAKER sworn.

Q. What are you? - I am a man that is employed by merchants in London, to go on board the ships, and see them safe discharged at the Custom house .

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I have seen him; it is hard for me to recollect him now; it is about a year ago; but really I cannot positively swear to him; it is the man in black clothes, the middle man, to the best of my knowledge he was the man.

Q. When did you see him first? - It was in July last, it was the latter end about the 25th or 26th of July.

Q. Where did you see him? - In the Bengal coffee house, just off Tower-hill , not far from Tower-hill.

Q. Had you known him before? - I had not known him before.

Q. In what part of the house did you see him? - There was one that he called Mr. Clark with him, and there was another man came in that said he was a country man, and said he came from coventry, an ancient man, he had had a grandmother died and left him eighteen hundred pounds; and this countryman he wanted to be introduced to the people, and he said, gentlemen, I hope I have not offended you; he called for some rum and water.

Q. Who was there before he came in? - Me and this man, and Clarke. And after he had been in a little while, he said, you are a parcel of ignorant fellows, you have no money, I came to sport money among you, I came to London to spend money, I bet you fifty pounds that you altogether cannot produce four hundred pounds in three hours; one of the gentlemen said, I can produce upwards of two hundred pounds myself; and another man, who's name was Mills, said, he could produce near two hundred pounds; and he asked me what I could produce? I said, I have no money at all, only thirteen or fourteen guineas; well, says he, fetch it and we can make it up.

Q. Then there was another person in the room of the name of Mills? - Yes. Says he, Mills, you shall have the third of that fifty pounds, the man has too much money. I went to Ratcliffe-cross where I lived, I went on foot, and came back in a coach and this Clarke he went ready to meet me.

Q. When you went home what did you do? - My money was in a purse, I put it in my pocket and came away.

Q. When you came back who paid for the coach? - I paid for it myself.

Q. When you came back who did you find there? - I found these three men. Clarke was waiting there for me.

Q. Who were these three gentlemen; was the prisoner one? - That he was.

Q. Was the country gentleman one of the others? - Yes, and Clarke.

Q. What did you do? - I went in and put the money on the table.

Q. Did you say any thing at the time? - I went out to make water.

Q. What did you put it there for? - Not for their use, for the account of getting part of fifty pounds.

Q. Pretty good interest. When you put it on the table did you say any thing? - I said there is the money I went for; I went to go down stairs to make water, Mills followed me down, and said, come over along with me to my counting house, and we will be back in five minutes.

Q. What was you to go to his counting house for? - To give directions to his clerks. I went with him to the corner of the street, and then he said, you had

better go back to the gentlemen, I will be back with you in five minutes.

Q. Who had you left in the room? - The prisoner and Clarke; when I went back they were all gone.

Q. You found all the money there again? - No money, they took care to take the money with them that night.

Q. You never see your money again? - Never a farthing of it.

Q. Did you tell the landlord of the house this? - I told the landlord what happened, and he seemed to be sorry.

Q. How long was it before you saw the prisoner at the bar again? - Six or seven months it was.

Q. And then you gave that information to the officer about it? - I did.

Q. Where did you go, to Worship-street? - I did.

Q. In consequence of that information after six or seven months the prisoner was apprehended? - He was.

Q. Have you any doubt, or had you any doubt when he was apprehended, that he was one of the three men? - I was certain of it.

Q. Have you any doubt now? - None at all.

Q. Had you any intention of parting with your money, unless for the share of this fifty pounds? - I thought a trifle of that money would be a kind of service to me, an old man and my wife.

Mr. Knowlys. You never saw the prisoner at the bar till six or seven months after the wrong was done you? - No.

Q. Now you six on that gentleman first of all, that he was the man? - A man may be mistaken, I thought he had a great likeness of the man, it is a particular thing, and I have not swore positive to any man.

Q. And when you came here to be asked who has done you that injury, you pointed to that man? - I am an old man, upwards of seventy years of age, I would not deprive him nor any soul of any thing in the world.

Q. I dare say you do not wish to do any thing that was wrong.

Prisoner. He wanted to swear to the person that belonged to the office where I was committed from.

Prosecutor. That is the very man.

Mr. Knowlys. You know any body may be mistaken; did not you say first of all at the office that some other man had done you the wrong? - No, I did not.

Mr. Knapp. Did you give information soon after this happened to the office? - Directly.

Mrs. WEST sworn.

Q. I believe you are the wife of the landlord of the Bengal tavern? - Yes.

Q. What is your husband's name? - Edward West .

Q. Do you recollect the old man, the the prosecutor, being in your house? - Yes.

Q. Do you recollect what month? - I think it was in March, is was soon after we took the house.

Q. Do you remember this business taking place, what we have been speaking of? - Certainly I do.

Q. Do you remember the old man, the prosecutor, being there? - I do

Q. Do you remember the prisoner at the bar? - I believe he certainly is one of the men, but I do not wish to swear positively.

Q. I believe the prisoner at the bar in July afterwards was taken up at your house? - Yes, he was.

JOHN GRIFFITHS sworn.

I belong to the police office at Whitechapel.

Q. Did you apprehend the prisoner at the bar? - I did, on the 9th of October last, at the Bengal tavern, I had a warrant for him there, but I apprehended him in

Whitechapel, going from the Bengal tavern.

Q. Did you search him? - I did.

Q. What did you find on him? - I found different notes, which I have here to produce; some were found in his pocket book, and some in his pocket.

Q. Did you find any thing else? - Seven guineas and a half.

Q. Did the prisoner at the bar say any thing at the time of his apprehension? - I asked him what he was doing there; and when I took him, I said, now my friend you must go back with me and pay the landlord the reckoning; says he, I have paid the landlord; says I, go back with me, and when the landlord says you have paid your reckoning, I have nothing more to do with you. He says come down Somerset-street, do not let us be too rash, let us go in and talk together; no, I said, we shall go to the house you come from.

EDWARD WEST sworn.

Q. You are the master of the Bengal tavern? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember this business happening in your house? - I was at Charing Cross, on my return my wife informed me of this matter.

Q. Did the prosecutor say any thing to you in the presence of the prisoner about this matter? - Not a word.

Prisoner. What I have got to say to this charge is this, I know no more about it than a child unborn.

I was at home ill at the time with the rheumatic gout. I was not able to get out of my bed.

Q. Have you any witness to prove that? - I can send for them in half an hour, I have no money, I have a wife and four children, money runs very scarce, and I could not manage things so well, I can send for them in half an hour if you will give me the time, Mr. Harper and Armstrong I dare say can give an account of the men that did this business, I am not the man if it was the last word I have to speak.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron HOTHAM.

Reference Number: t17941208-8

8. WILLIAM SEXTON was indicted for that he not having the fear of God before his eyes, but being moved and seduced by the devil, on the 15th of September , on Mary Leonard , Spinster , feloniously did make an assault, and her, the said Mary, did ravish and carnally know .

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-9

9. WILLIAM KELLY and MARY KELLY were indicted for stealing, on the 6th of November , thirty six cotton handkerchiefs, value; 6s. three pair of cotton stockings, value 11s. the goods of Thomas Beckford , privately in his shop .

WILLIAM WILLIAMS sworn.

I was a servant to the prosecutor, but since the commitment of the prisoner I have left his service.

Q. What was your master's name at that time? - Thomas Beckford .

Q. What business? - A linen draper .

Q. What day was he robbed? - On Thursday, the 6th of November last, about three o'clock in the afternoon; they came in the shop and desired to look at some silk handkerchiefs, both the prisoners, in company with another man.

Q. Who was it applied to you to look at the handkerchiefs? - I rather think it was the woman at the bar, but they all seemed to speak at once, but it was particularly the woman.

Q. Where was your shop? - In High-street, St. Giles's . On their desiring to look at some silk handkerchiefs, a bundle was shewn to them by themselves; they looked at them and tumbled them about, in such a manner that gave me an idea they had an intent to steal, particularly the prisoner's wife; Kelly, while his wife was looking over the handkerchiefs, attempted to pull something from over the counter, which strongly strengthened my suspicion; this attempt was made several times; at last I thought I see something taken from the counter on which I immediately swept the whole of the handkerchiefs off from the counter,

determined to shew them no more; they desired to see more, but I would not shew them any more; whereupon they quitted the shop; Mr. Kelly was the last person that left the shop, whom I seized and brought back, and afterwards the woman, his wife , whom I took hold of some few doors below our house.

Q. Was she out of sight? - No. On seizing her as she walked a few paces back she dropped the handkerchiefs; the goods I have with me, a quantity of handkerchiefs containing six dozen; the stockings she did not drop, she gave me those.

Q. Where did she drop these cotton handkerchiefs, from her petticoats or from where? - From under her cloak. As she was coming along, before she returned to the house again, delivered to me a paper of stockings of her own accord.

Q. What is the value of these handkerchiefs? - Sixteen shillings and six-pence; it is stated in the indictment sixteen shillings, they cost that money.

Q. How long before had they cost that? - I cannot exactly say; the stockings are likewise valued at eleven shillings in the indictment, but cost eleven shillings and six-pence.

Q. When you say you thought you saw something taken from the counter, who was it you thought you see take something off the counter? - William Kelly ; I see his hand, she held the handkerchief up in a particular form in folding it, and I see his hand underneath the handkerchiefs that were spread open, which gave me a suspicion, I see his hand move, and see something follow his hand as his wife spread the handkerchiefs.

Q. Have you kept the things ever since? - I have.(Produces them.)

Q. Are you sure these things were your's? - I will swear to them.

Q. Were they on the counter at the time? - I really believe they were, they were shewn with other handkerchiefs at the time; they have our marks on them.

Q. What is the mark on them? - They were made by Mr. Beckford, it is E. R. on the handkerchiefs; the mark on the stockings N.C.D.

Q. Did you look at your stock, as you found these on the woman? - Yes.

Q. Were they missing? - Yes.

Prisoner William Kelly . I only came to town the night before, and I met with this other man.

Prisoner Mary Kelly . I never asked him to buy a halfpenny worth of linen, nor handled any thing of his since I was born.

Prisoner William Kelly. I am a stranger in this country, unknown, and distant from my friends; I never was in London till the night before this unfortunate affair happened, and got a lodging in St. Gile's, when I met William Johnson , a shoe-maker, that I had known in Dublin; this Dublin man the next morning told me he would take a walk with me and shew me the city; as I was a brushing my hat I saw the prisoner at the bar whom I knew in Ireland standing at a door opposite me, we went together, Johnson said he wanted to buy an handkerchief, and he went in, and she and I followed, and he looked at some and did not like any, and walked out again; the prisoner Kelly, now with me, and I following him. When the prosecutor said that I had something that was not my property, I really did not know what he meant; he gave me in charge to the man, and stopped the woman, on whom he found what was mentioned in the indictment; but nothing was found on me; Johnson walked away, although close to the woman when the

prosecutor took her, and my consternation was such that I really did not know what I said or did; but, as I said before, nothing was found in my possession; but however, I was, with the woman taken before a magistrate and committed for trial. I have wrote to my brother now in the College in Dublin, that I was in trouble; he has wrote me an answer to know what my motives were for going to England, and desires me to send him the abode of my prosecutor, in order that he may write to some of his fellow students to settle it for me. I hope your lordship will grant me indulgence till next session.

Mary Kelly . He desired me to say I was not his wife, in order to get himself clear of this.

William Kelly , GUILTY .

Transported for seven years .

Mary Kelly, Not GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-10

10. MARY FINLAYSON was indicted for feloniously making an assault, on the King's highway, on John Gibbs , on the 9th of November , and putting him in fear, and taking from his person and against his will, a silver watch, value 2l. a steel watch chain, value 1s. a cornelian seal set in brass metal, value 2d. a steel watch key, value 1d. a clasp knife, value 6d. a tin japan tobacco box, value 4d. and thirty-four guineas; the goods and monies of John Gibbs .

JOHN GIBBS sworn.

I am a seafaring man .

Q. When was you robbed? - On the 9th of November, Sunday morning, about three o'clock.

Q. Was you drunk or sober? - I was sober; I was going home to my lodging.

Q. Where was you come from? - I had come from Mrs. Thompson's, she keeps lodgings.

Q. Had you been to bed? - No, I had been talking with them.

Q. Did you sup there? - Yes.

Q. Was that where you lodged? - No.

Q. What is it a house where there are women, or what? - No.

Q. Is she an acquaintance of your's? - She keeps lodgers, and keeps a public house.

Q. Where is this public house? - At King Jame's stairs.

Q. Where was you going at this time? - I was going to my own lodgings in Parlour-street.

Q. How happened it you was robbed? - I was going up the street, just at the foot of Foxes-lane , as I was going up the lane there was a man came up behind, and this here woman, and the man catched hold of me by the arms, while the woman took thirty guineas from me, and my watch, and my tobacco box.

Q. Was it a silver watch? - Yes.

Q. Was there a watch chain? - Yes.

Q. A seal? - Yes.

Q. A watch key? - Yes.

Q. What else did she take? - My knife and my handkerchief.

Q. Where did you keep this four and thirty guineas? - I had it in my pocket, in my breeches pocket.

Q. Was it loose in your pocket, or how? - It was all loose in my pocket.

Q. How came you to have so much about you? - The people where I went to live were strangers, and I did not like to trust them with it.

Q. How long had you had it? - Only two days.

Q. Where did you get it from? - The captain I was with.

Q. Where did you come from? - From Jamaica.

Q. What was the captain's name? - John Stamp .

Q. What ship was he captain of? - The Lightning, transport. The man when he was going away knocked me down in the street, and took my hat off my head, and put on his old one.

Q. He took off your hat, did he? - Yes, he did, a new hat.

Q. What sort of a night was it? - It was light.

Q. Could you see this by the light of the lamp, or by the light of the day? - By the light of the lamps.

Q. How long might it be passing altogether? - They were not above ten minutes with me.

Q. Was it a man you never saw before? - No, I never saw the man before.

Q. Should you know him again? - No, I cannot say that I should know him again.

Q. How do you know that that woman was the woman that did all this? - Because her face was to me.

Q. What became of them after they robbed you? - They ran away from me, down some lane.

Q. How soon did you see any thing of them again? - I did not see any thing of them again till Monday morning I went to the office in Shadwell, and there I saw her sitting in the public house oppsite the office.

Q. Did you go there for the purpose of seeing the prisoner? - I went there for the purpose of telling my complaint.

Q. Did you know the prisoner was taken? - No, I went for the purpose of making a complaint of losing my money.

Q. Did you know her to be the person immediately when you saw her? - Yes.

Q. Were there no other persons in the public house? - Yes, there was one woman besides, sitting by the fire; Mr. Thomas, the officer asked me whether I should know the woman again? I said, yes; and I went into that room, and I pointed out the woman.

Q. Then you went into that room by the desire of the officer? - Yes.

Q. Were there any besides that one woman with the prisoner in that room? - Not that I saw, but the people passing and repassing, to and from the room.

Q. Was this woman pointed to you as the woman that had robbed you, or did you point her out? - I pointed her to the officer.

Q. Are you perfectly sure she is the same person? - Yes.

Q. Did she say any thing to you at the time? - She was cursing and swearing at the time I was robbed.

Q. I mean at the time you saw her in the public house; did you tell her she was the woman that robbed you? - Yes, and she said she was not the woman.

Q. Have you recovered either your watch or anything? - No, no part of it at all can I hear of.

Q. Was the woman examined at the time? - She was examined when they took her up to the watch-house, and they found some of the money about her.

Q. Was your tobacco box a tin japanned one? - It was japanned.

Prisoner. He never saw me before with his eyes, till I was in the Virgin Planters, and I never saw him with my eyes before I saw him at the Virgina Planters.

GOVERNOR JONES sworn.

I am a watchman.

Q. Do you know any thing of this Gints, the sailor? - No, not did he.

Q. Do you know whether he was round? - I don't know; between the hours of two and three I was in my box, and I

heard a great noise in the street, Lower Shadwell, the bottom of Fox's-lane, and I went out to desire this woman and another man to make less noise, and not to disturb people that were in their beds and asleep; she abused me, and mobbed me most unaccountably; with that I called another man to my assistance. The master of the public house had put her out, or the mistress, I cannot say which, of the Jolly Sailor, and she was swearing she would have some more beer; presently the man disappears and went off, and I told her if she did not go home I would take her up to the watch house, I told her for her abuse, however, I would keep her there till Monday; says she, watchman, that is all you can do with me, I will give you half a guinea to drink if you will let me out; says she, I have plenty of money; she opened her hand and had a handful of gold; I asked her how she came by it? she answered in a very vulgar way, what is that to you; I told her I would send for a constable, and he should enquire about that, and I sent for on officer, and he came and searched her.

JOHN THOMAS sworn.

I am an officer, I searched the prisoner at the bar; I was not in the watch-house when they brought the woman first; I found on her thirteen guineas, and two shillings and six-pence in money, and one shilling; when I came up first she had her gown off, and her stays, and seemed very much in liquor.

Q. Where was this money that you found about her? - I believe it was in her hand first, but she turned about and put it in her mouth, all but two guineas, which was found afterwards; I have kept it ever since, except one guinea, because the man having nothing to maintain him in the mean time, that I gave to Gibbs.(Produces the money.)

Q. Was any thing but money found on her? - Nothing at all.

Court to Gibbs. Now can you speak to any of that money? - No, I cannot swear to any of it.

Q. None of it happens to be marked? - It was all new gold.

Q. Did you mean to say that they were all new gold? - They were new like guineas.

Q. Were they all spaded guineas? - Yes, they were of that sort, almost all.

Q. Did you lose any silver at all? - No, it was all guineas.

Q. In what pocket did you keep this? - In my breeches pocket.

Prisoner. I was sent for that night unto a poor woman that was in labour; I went and staid till it was all over, and coming home about one o'clock that night, I drank rather free that night, and I met with the watchman, and he took me to the Jolly Sailors, and I paid him for a pot of hot, to treat him, and I had fourteen guineas in my pocket, and I took out my money and shewed him, and he wanted me to go with him in his box; and he took my pocket off, and wanted the money out of my hand, and I would not give it to him, and he called for another watchman, and he wanted to take it out of my hand; and when I came to my second hearing, the man said, if I would give him the thirteen guineas up he would let me go; I said I would not let my money go, I would suffer all the laws in England first. Ten guineas my brother sent me from Berwick on Tweed, and the rest I saved up myself, by hard work, to bind my child to a trade; my brother has been a very good friend to me ever since my husband died.

Court. You are charged with a very capital offence, it is very material for your brother to be here, where is your brother? He is at Berwick on Tweed.

Court to Jones. Did you go with this woman to drink any liquor? - No, I did not.

Prisoner. Please you, my lord, to ask him how long he left Mary Robins that was discharged from this place in September Sessions, that was the woman that was with him at the watch-house on Sunday, and Mr. Thomas let me go home on Sunday evening myself, and told me to come on Monday morning, at ten o'clock, and I went.

Court to Thomas. Did you let this woman go home? - I did, Sunday morning, I took her to the watch-house and locked her up in the watch-house till ten o'clock that morning, and then took her to the Virginia Planter, and begged of the landlord to take care of her; at ten o'clock I went to fetch her, I locked her up again till Sunday night, and then she gave account of herself; she was not charged with any felony at this time, she told me a good story, and where she lived; I said, I do not want to confine you if you will come to the justice's the next morning and prove your property, you shall have it.

Q. Did she come to the justice's the next morning? - She did.

Prisoner. He told justice Staples that he was drunk, and he did not know where he was; and the watchman told the justice he was in liquor too.

Court to Gibbs. Did you ever say before the magistrate that you was drunk? - No, I never did.

Q. Was you sober? - Yes.

Q. Had you been drinking any thing at all? - No, nothing, only tea.

GUILTY . Death . (Aged 39.)

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-11

11. MARY SULLIVAN was indicted for feloniously stealing on the 4th of December , three cotton shawls, value 3s. the goods of Thomas Beckford , privately in his shop .

JAMES THOMPSON sworn.

I am a servant to Mr. Beckford.

Q. What is your master's christian name? - Thomas.

Q. What is Mr. Beckford? - A linen draper .

Q. Was he robbed at any time of any cotton shawls? - Yes, last Tuesday, about three in the afternoon.

Q. Where is your master's house? - No. 22, High-street, St. Giles's .

Q. In what manner did it happen? - The prisoner came in and enquired for some muslin, I was busy with some other customers and could not immediately attend to her at that time.

Q. Who were in the shop besides the customers? - There were two, my master and myself.

Q. What happened then? - After she asked for muslin she turned away from the counter, and I had some suspicion that she had taken something from it, and I went and asked her what she had got under her cloak? she said nothing.

Q. She answered so? - Yes. I turned her cloak on one side, and found three shawls under her arm.

Q. What sort of shawls? - I have got them, they are cotton.

Q. What past between you then? - I took her to Mary-le-bone-street office. I took the shawls from her in the shop, I have kept the shawls from that time to this.

Q. Have you separated them from your master's property? - I have.

Q. Are you sure they are your master's property? - They were laying on the counter about ten minutes before.

Q. Do you know they are your own? - Yes.

Q. Was there any shop marks at all on them? - No, no marks at all on them.

Q. Can you say such property was missing from your master's shop? - Yes.

Q. Was there any property in the shop that did not belong to your master? - Not that I know of.

Q. That was not borrowed property? - No.

Q. What did your master give for them? - Two Shillings and three pence a piece.

Prisoner. I went in that gentleman's shop to buy a bit of muslin for a border of a cap, and the gentleman shewed me some; I asked for a remnant that would come cheap; and he took a piece of muslin and asked me how much would do? and I put my hand across the counter in this manner, and he shewed me about that much for a border of a cap; he said it would come to five-pence, and I told him I would give him four-pence halfpenny, it was as much as I could afford. I pulled my arm from him, and he catched hold of me, this handkerchief was coming off the counter with my cloak, and he said I meant to steal the handkerchief; I had not a ha'pworth with me in the world, but three shillings and three halfpence, I was just as you see me now, gentlemen.

Court to witness. In what condition were they under her arm? were they lapped up or loose? - Loose.

Q. Were they quite under her arm? - Yes, she had hold of them.

Q. Had she a cloak on? - Yes, she had.

Prisoner. I have no person but myself, my husband is dead.

GUILTY.

Of stealing, but not privately .

Imprisoned six months in the House of Correction and fined 1s.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-12

12. MARIA FERRES, otherwise PERRES , was indicted for feloniously stealing on the 3d of November , a silver watch, value 2l. a black gown, value 8s. a black silk petticoat, value 8s. one other silk gown, value 14s. two cotton gowns, value 1l. 2s. and two guineas, the goods and monies of Hannah Clare , widow , in her dwelling house .

HANNAH CLARE sworn.

I rent two lower rooms, No.7, Clerkenwell Close .

Q. Does any other person live in the house? - No, I have two little rooms and a yard to myself.

Q. In November last did you lose any part of your property? - All, I believe.

Q. Did you lose a silver watch, a black silk petticoat, one other silk gown, and two cotton gowns? - Yes.

Q. Can you express what was the value of these things altogether? What was the value of the watch? - Two pounds.

Q. What was the value of the silk gown? - Eight shillings.

Q. What was the value of the petticoat-Eight shillings.

Q. What is the value of the other silk gown? - Fourteen shillings.

Q. What is the value of the two cotton gowns? - One pound two shillings.

Q. And did you lose any money? - Two pounds two shillings.

Q. What day in November was this? - The third of November, I do not know the time I lost the two guineas.

Q. Look at the prisoner at the bar, was she in your service? - She came to take a lodging of me for sixweeks, she said she was waiting for a gentleman's family coming to town.

Q. How long had she lodged with you? - Just the five weeks, and my being a widow with two children, I thought it would be helpful, as I had two beds.

Q. When did she leave your lodging? - She left it on Monday, and Tuesday the six weeks was up.

Q. Did you perceive that any of the things were taken from you previous to the time she left your house? - I perceived the two guineas were gone when she had been there three weeks, I went and unlocked my great chest and found the money gone, she talked so fair I could not think it was her, and so I let it pass; three weeks afterwards she left my place, she said the family were come to town, as she told me, and she took me to the place with her in Finsbury square, No. 8. When I came home on the Monday on which she went, from my business, about one o'clock, she said she had got a note from the family in Finsbury square, and asked me to take a walk with her to the place; and when she came to the place she said, Mrs. C a e, you will excuse me asking you in, because I know nobody here but the cook, and she went down the airy, and shut the door after her, and I came home; and my little girl happened to go to my drawer for something and saw my watch was gone, then I went to my padlock chest, and unlocked that, it unlocked very easy, it used to go very hard. After I found my things were all gone, I went after her to Finsbury-square, and this housekeeper said, she came in there with an excuse, and they turned her out, they thought she was a thief. And then I went to Worship street, and there I spoke to one Mr. Blackiter, and he knew the woman very well, and said, she came to Newgate every day, to her sister, and she was taken there the Friday after; she stayed away from Monday till Friday before she went to her sister in Newgate-street; I did not know that she had a sister any where till Mr. Blackiter told me.

Q. Where was she stopped? - At Newgate, as she was going to Newgate to see her sister, her sister was tried last Sessions, and transported.

Q. Did you discover where she had lived after she had quitted your house? - No.

Q. Did you see her searched? or have you found any property in her possession? - No, she pawned it all, she told me she would tell me where it was if I would not take her to prison.

Q. Was it at the Office she confessed to the taking of the things? - No, as she was going to prison.

Q. Did you previous to the time promise to shew her any favour? - No, none.

Q. Did you threaten her at all? - No, I did not.

Q. What did she confess? - She confessed she pawned them.

Q. Was that confession voluntary? - It was. She confessed them all, and what pawnbrokers they were at.

Q. Did you discover where they were? - I found one gown at one of the pawnbrokers before I found her, in Newgate-street, at one Mr. Fleming's, he had one cotton gown.

Q. Did she say any thing in regard to the two guineas? - No, in my flurry I did not say any thing to her of the two guineas, I hardly knew at first what I lost, and when I went to make my bed that she slept in, I found she had taken a good many of my feathers out of the bed.

Court. That is not in the indictment.

Prisoner. She shewed me every favour, and said, she would not put me in prison if I would but confess; there it one pound nine shillings taken away from me.

Court. Did you say you would not prosecute? or that you would not bring her to justice, if she would confess? - I did not, she used to pity me, and said,

she would not let any body rob me, and yet was robbing me herself. She wondered how I went through my work to maintain my children, I lived so low.

JULIANA JACKSON sworn.

I am in the business of a pawnbroker. I have got a black silk gown (the gown produced) the prisoner at the bar pledged it on the 3d of November last.

Q. Are you sure it was the prisoner? - Yes.

Q. Have you been in the habit of advancing money to her on pledges? - Once before.

Q. What money did you lend her on it? - Fifteen shillings.

Prosecutrix. I can swear to the gown; I know the gown, I have got the patterns of them all in my pocket; this is the gown I lost.

Prisoner. I have lost one pound nine shillings that were taken from me, and a pair of tea tongs, and tea spoon, and a thimble, Mr. Blackiter took it away from me.

CHRISTIAN PARKER sworn.

I am in the pawnbrokering line.

Q. Have you any property of Hannah Clare 's in your possession? - Yes, I produce a silk gown, and a cotton gown, and a silver watch. The prisoner came to me on the 3d of November, and she wanted a guinea on them, I let her have fourteen shillings; she said how it would not be sufficient, she must go and get something else, accordingly in about ten minutes she brought me the silver watch, she said, she lived in Water-lane, Blackfriars, which is just by where I resided; I never saw her before to my knowledge.

Q. Are you sure the prisoner at the bar was the woman? - I am confident the prisoner at the bar is the person whom I took them from.

Mrs. Clare. I am sure this is my watch, it was my husband's watch, he died about two months before she came to me, and left me a widow with two children; I am sure this is my husband's watch, because I have got the name and the number; and these are my gowns, what I worked for very hard to save them.

- sworn.

I am a servant to Mr. Fleming, in Newgate-street, I have got a cotton gown, I took it in pledge the 3d of November, from a person of the name of Mary Evans, that person I believe to be the prisoner, she gave in her name as Mary Evans, and that she lived at No. 6, in the Cloisters, Christ Church.

Mrs. Clare. I am sure this is my gown, I lost a gown of that sort.

WILLIAM BLACKITER sworn.

I am a constable.

Q. Did you take the prisoner? - Mrs. Clare came and gave me information about such a woman; I had her sister in custody, and I thought it was this woman by her description; when I was taking her to prison she fell down on her knees in the coach, and asked Mrs. Clare if she would forgive her, and she would tell where they were; Mrs. Clare said, how can you use me so?

Q. Did Mrs. Clare say she would shew her any favour? - No, she asked not to go to prison on that night; Mrs. Clare said, she could do no such thing.

Q. Did she acknowledge she had taken the things? - Yes, she did, before me, I went to the pawnbrokers by her direction, and found all the things.

Q. Did you go by her direction to Batt, as one of the pawnbrokers? - Yes, Mr. Owen took her in Newgate; I knew she would come there to see her sister; he searched her for some duplicates, and could find none.

Prisoner. There is one pound and nine shillings that was taken from me, and a pair of tea tongs, and tea spoon, and thimble.

Blackiter. There was a guinea and a half taken from her, but the justice told me to take some for coach hire, as she could not walk, and I could not carry her.

OWEN sworn.

I am the person that apprehended her; I took some matters from her, a metal pair of tea tongs, a guinea and a half, and some silver; and I applied to the magistrate, and he told me to give them over to this man, Blackiter.

Prisoner. I am come to tell the truth, and nothing else. I am very sorry for it; as to any money that I took away from Mrs. Clare, I know nothing about it; the other articles I did take. I will tell the truth, let the consequence be what it will.

GUILTY . Death . (Aged 38.)

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-13

13. MARK MACEY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 1st of December , a plow heel pad of iron, value 3d. and an iron windlass wheel, value 3d. the goods of Richard Bradley .

RICHARD BRADLEY sworn.

I live at Bankside, Southwark ; I am a brass and iron founder .

Q. On the 1st of this month did you lose any part of your property? - Yes; a plow heel and a small wheel that we call a windlass wheel.

Q. These are things of very inconsiderable value? - Very inconsiderable value.

Q. Do you know any thing of the prisoner at the bar, previous to the time of losing this property? - I had employed his master, he is apprentice to a Mr. Pentering a carpenter.

Q. In that employment, I suppose the prisoner at the bar had access to your house? - To the shop where the robbery was done.

Q. What ground or foundation have you to suspect the things were taken by the prisoner? - They were taken on him. Mr. Jostling, belonging to the Lord Mayor's court, sent for me, and there it was proved that he had these things in a basket.

Q. Then you do not know any thing of your own knowledge? - No, I do not. At the same time, as he is not in the habit of doing these things, I beg leave to recommend him to mercy; I only wish to make him a little example.

Mr. Knapp. These are two pieces of iron that, I believe, you would not swear to them? - I can bring the patterns; I could swear to them.

Q. Is not his master bail for him? He gave you notice for trial on Wednesday, to-morrow. - I was not at home when the notice came.

Q. Did not you say it would be more convenient for you to have it brought on to day than to-morrow? - I don't recollect; I don't know that I did or I did not.

Q. You must know in your own mind the man's surrendering to day, is a day before the notice? - I consented so far as this, as my brother or whoever it was that took the notice, told them it would be more agreeable, because I had so many men under me.

PHILIP JOSTLING sworn.

I am the constable of the city; I stopped the prisoner, on Wednesday, the 1st of December.

Q. Was that by virtue of any warrant? - It was between the hours of five

and six; I was coming across Smithfield, and the lad was coming towards Smithfield, I stopped him, and he seemed very flurried.

Q. You had no warrant? - No, I stopped him on suspicion.

Q. What occasioned that suspicion? - Seeing him have something heavy.

Q. What did he tell you on an enquiry of him, of them things what he had in his possession? What did he tell you? - He told me it was iron; I told him the magistrate had given me orders to stop every person, at night, with iron.

Q. Did you examine him? - I did, at the Compter I told him it would be better for him to tell the truth; I never thought it would come here, I thought he would be convicted under the act of parliament. When I got him and the iron to the Compter I sent to Mr. Bradley, the prosecutor, he came over, and then the nephew claimed the iron.

Q. What became of the iron? - I have had it in my possession ever since,(produces the iron) it is in the same state as when I took it on the prisoner. It is cast iron.

Mr. Knapp. I believe he was in the road (the place where he walked) to his master's house?

Q. To Bradley. What marks do you usually put on your property in iron? - We do not mark them; but the patterns that we mould them in is generally sufficient.

Q. Now, a plow heel and windlass wheel, they are common to every person in that trade? - Yes.

Q. It is a very difficult matter for any person to swear to any loose piece of these articles, that they shall be his property? - It is.

Q. Will you look at these articles, and tell me whether you can positively swear that these were your property? - These are the same that were found in the basket.

Q. Will you venture to swear that these are your's? - No, I will not venture to swear.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-14

14. JOHN MASON was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 12th of November , twelve brass arms for sconces, value 4s. six brass nozels for sconces, value 1s. the goods of JohnLewis Baumgartner and John Lewis Hoffstetter .

JOHN LEWIS HOFFSTETTER sworn.

I am a foreigner, I am in partner ship with John Lewis Baumgartner.

Q. Where do you carry on your business? - Unto different parts on the Continent.

Q. Do you carry on your business in St. Catharine's key ? - We have a warehouse there.

Q. Did you lose, in October last, any part of your property from that quarter? - I do not know.

Q. Did you, at any time, lose the articles in the indictment, twelve brass arms and six brass nozels of girandoles? - This particular kind was missing from our warehouse.

Q. Were you and John Lewis Baumgartner jointly concerned in this property? - We were.

Q. What is the ground and foundation that you have for charging the prisoner at the bar with these things? - I found them in his pocket; he lived with us as a weekly servant, a porter ; it was taken away from him on the 26th of November.

Q. When had you last seen them before they were found in his pocket? - I

examined him, and in his pocket was found these articles; the constable has got them.

JOHN PINNER sworn.

(Produces the articles) I produce the things; they have been in my custody ever since the prisoner was apprehended.

Q. By whom were these things delivered to you? - I was sent for November 26, about the hour of nine in the morning, and when I came to the prosecutors house, he told me he had been robbed of them two different articles; he gave me charge of his porter for robbing of him; as such I conveyed him to the magistrate, and he had a hearing. The things were given to me in Mr. Hoffstetter's house.

Prosecutor. They are the things I delivered to Pinner; they have no mark on them, but the remaining part is in our possession.

Q. Tell me whether you had not entrusted the prisoner at the bar with the delivery of these things, to carry home to some customer? - No.

Q. Had you any conversation with him? Did he give any account how he became possessed of them, and for what purpose? - He said he found them in the warehouse, and thought they were of no use.

Mr. Knapp. In the first place, Mr. Hoffstetter, how lately had you seen these arms before? - They might be, perhaps, six months in my warehouse.

Q. Then if any other person besides the prisoner at the bar had taken them out, and then they had got in the prisoner at the bar's possession, you would not have known any thing at all about it? These arms that I see they would suit any other commodity of the same sort, if they fitted? - Certainly.

Q. Therefore you do not mean to state that there is any particular mark about this, peculiar to the thing itself? - No, there is not.

Q. Then the same commodity in other peoples possession, that would fit your's, you would equally swear to as these? - It might happen so.

Q. All that you mean is this, that you have such a commodity, which these things will correspond with, and which any other thing of a like specie would correspond with? - No doubt.

Prisoner. On the 26th, I was in the warehouse, in the morning, and I found these things up stairs; I did not know what they were, and I put them in my pocket in order to look at them, and I did not know what they were, and he supposed I was thief, and which I did not like, so I offered to run when he stopped me. I was a weekly porter; I lived almost five years with my master.

JOHN CULLER sworn.

I keep an academy; the prisoner he lodged there, and was every thing that was proper, a good father, and husband.

Q. Did you ever miss any thing, or had you reason to impute any crime to him whatever? - Not in the least.

The prisoner called three more witnesses who all gave him a good character.

GUILTY. (Aged 34.)

Recommended to mercy .

Privately whipped .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-15

15. EDWARD QUINN was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 19th of November , forty pounds weight

of linen rags, value 14s. the goods of Thomas Ford .

THOMAS FORD sworn.

Q. Did you, in November last, lose any quantity of linen rags? - Yes, on the 19th of last month.

Q. What was it you lost? - Forty pounds weight of rags.

Q. Did you know the prisoner at the bar before? - I have seen him previous to the time; there is a public house opposite my warehouse; I saw him carry a bag out, and knowing him not employed in my warehouse, I suspected that he might have taken them; I have not indicted him on that fact, that led me only to the suspicion. The warehouses that I occupy, you will understand, are two ground floors; my porter was concerned with this man, but the constable let my porter escape. My porter came in the morning and opened the warehouses; during the time he was there the prisoner came and looked in the passage for the porter, and not finding him there, he went in the public house to wait for him. My porter came out of the privy, and went into the public house to him; they both came to the warehouse together, and the porter came out to the door, and looked to see if the way was clear, and the prisoner came out with the linen rags, and I followed him, and took him in Philip-lane, and brought him back, and gave charge of him and the porter.

Mr. Knowlys. I believe you buy rags of those that collect them? - I do.

Q. I do not know whether you or your porter had bought rags of this man before? - I do not know; he could not on that morning; but it is not impossible but he might.

Q. You did not see the prisoner when he first came? - I see him when he first came to the door, and I never quitted my station till I sent my man to the counting house.

Court. Had you not any transactions with him before? - Not to my knowledge.

Q. You know him you say? - Yes, I had seen him come backwards and forwards to the public house.

Q. Had he at any time, offered you any rags? - Not that I know of.

THOMAS BAILEY sworn.

I am a constable.

Q. Did you apprehend the prisoner at the bar? - No, I did not apprehend him.

Q. Was a bag of rags in his possession at any time? - The rags were in the scale in the warehouse.

Q. Who produces them in the court? - I produce them in the court.

Q. From whom did you receive them? - These rags were carried to the Mansion House, and there a seal was put on the bag; from thence they were carried and left at Mr. Ford's house; they were brought from the prosecutor's house yesterday to the sessions house here, and then they were delivered to me, and have been in my custody from that time till now.

Q. Do you know whether they are the bag of rags for which the prisoner is indicted for stealing? - Yes, they are.

Prosecutor. I can tell you why I put them in the scale, I thought it was proper to know what weight they were, and give the constable an account.

Q. On the point of identifying them, it is impossible, otherwise than the man went in with an empty bag. Had you the possession of such a bag of rags the preceding night? - They were in a loose package; these had been packed by my porter and the present prisoner. The prisoner told me I could not identify

rags; that was his presumption on this business.

ANN BARTLETT sworn.

Q. You live in the neighbourhood of Mr. Ford, the prosecutor? - Yes.

Q. Look at the prisoner at the bar; did you ever see him before? - Yes, a great many times.

Q. Did you give any information to Mr. Ford of seeing that man come out with any property from his warehouse? What did you see? - The first time I saw it was on Monday morning, I got up between seven and eight o'clock, and saw this man and Mr. Ford's porter together, and I saw him afterwards, when I went out for some butter, I met this man with some rags on his back.

Q. Did you see any thing on the day he was taken up with the rags? - Yes, I saw him come out of Mr. Ford's house, and saw Mr. Ford's porter follow him and bring them out.

Q. Then Mr. Ford's suspicion arose from an information that you gave him the day before that? - Yes, it was.

Prisoner. I have taken a bit of a house over the water, and I used to buy rags at one place or another, if I could get a shilling in buying any rags, and I brought these rags the afternoon before, and asked two guineas for them, and Mr. Ford's man would not give me but forty shillings for them, and so I took them away again.

The prisoner called one witness who gave him a good character.

GUILTY . (Aged 30.)

Fined one Shilling .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-16

16. TELEMACHUS HOPEFULL was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 23d of November , two linen sheets, value 6s. two woollen blankets value 6s. two bed curtains made of worsted and linen, value 2s 6d. and a window curtain made of woollen and linen, value 1s. 6d. the goods of Ann Baron , in her lodging room .

ANN BARON sworn.

I am a widow , I let a room to this man, Hopefull, I am sure of the man, on Saturday the 23d of November, furnished, for five shillings a week, in Wood-street, in the parish of St. Alban's .

Q. Was your lodging ever robbed at any time? - Never robbed before; he lived in his lodgings eight weeks; a friend that he lodged with before came and told me that I had a right to examine his lodgings once a week, and I went up and examined his lodgings, and took a friend with me.

Q. Had he left your lodgings at this time? - No, he had not, he never paid me a farthing rent, and bid me defiance of quitting my lodging.

Q. Who was the person that went up with you? - One Edwards, he is not here.

Q. How did you get into his room? - I opened the door, and went in, I throwed up the quilt from the bed, and missed my sheets, blankets and pillow, and window curtain and a bed curtain.

Q. What day was that you did this? - On Saturday, the 23d of November; he had promised me time after time to give me some money, he told me he would bring it me in three hours, that was ten o'clock; he came home between seven and eight, and he told me he should bring a bill; I told him if it was a good one perhaps I should get a friend to cash it.

Q. Did any thing pass between you and him, about these things? - No, he brought me the note.

Q. Did any thing pass about the furniture? - No conversation at all; he came home about eight o'clock, and presented a note, supposed not to be worth any thing; he came home between seven and eight o'clock; I told him I would take an hour to consider of it, in the mean time I sent for a constable, and had him taken into custody. It was a twelve guinea note, not worth any thing; he had lived on my property, and never paid me a farthing rent.

Q. Now have you ever found any of this property that was missing? - They were all found at the pawnbroker's the Saturday evening; I have seen them all.

Q. Do you know them again? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. So this man had lodged with you there eight weeks? - Yes.

Q. I believe he had not paid you any money at all? - He had not, he bid me defiance, and my husband was sick, and died at the same time, my husband died the 3d of October, but he has never paid any thing.

Q. From which of course made you think very hardly of him, not having paid you any rent; you taxed him with it? - I certainly asked him a great many times; by my own distress I wanted money.

Q. I would ask you whether he did not present you down a note that was to pay his rent? - He meant to pay a part of it, as I understood.

Q. He came home on this Saturday? - He did, with this bad note, and presented it to me.

Q. So that after the charge you had charged against him, he comes home to his own lodging again? - Yes, he did.

Q. I fancy if you had been paid your rent we should not have heard of this prosecution? - I scorn to do any thing but what is just; and he impudently came down into my shop between twelve and one o'clock, and says, very impudently, it is me, I want a candie; I was not safe with him in my house.

JOHN FLETCHER sworn.

I am a constable, I had a warrant, and I went on Saturday night to take charge of this man, that was the day the things were missing; I went into the room, the two pair of stairs where he lodged; I asked him if he knew were the things were? She said, he had pawned them; says I, give me the duplicates, and he gave me the duplicates, he gave me seven duplicates.

Mr. Knapp. Did not you tell him it would be better for him if he confessed? - I asked him what he had done with the property.

Q. You took him at his own lodgings? - I did.

Q. How long have you been a constable? - Two years.

Q. Perhaps you never heard of a man after having committed a felony, going home to his own lodgings.

JOHN MORETT sworn.

I am a pawnbroker's servant, Mr. Crouch, in Fore-street; I produce a sheet pawned the 30th of October last by the prisoner; he came to my master's, I knew his person before, I am sure he is the man.

Q. Did he tell you where he got that from? - No, he did not, he said it was his own.

Court to Mrs. Baron. When did he take your room? - Eight weeks before he was taken.

Court to the Constable. Produce the duplicates. - (Produces them.)

Q. To Morett. See if you can find the duplicate of the sheet among them? - This is the duplicate of the sheet, in the name of John Hope ; my master took in the other things. (Reads the other duplicates) a sheet for four shillings, Mr. Hope, Crouch, Fore-street, October 20 1794, a blanket for two shillings, Mr. Hope, November 10th 1794; and there is

three different curtains, one on the 2d of November, another on the 7th, and one on the 8th, in the name of Mr. Hope.

Court to Prosecutrix. Look at that sheet, and see if that sheet is your's? - I know this to be mine, it has not been joined, nor yet marked, but I know it to be my sheet.

Mr. Knapp. You continued to know it to be your sheet; and you can give no reason at all why you know it? - I know it to be my sheet.

Q. I dare say you would continue to say so till twelve o'clock at night.

Q. Has there been any stain on it, or any thing that you know it by? - I do not pretend to say there is any stain upon it, but I have cloth at home that will match it, it is my sheet.

Q. You have told the jury just now that there is no stain, that there is no mark, that there is no reason whatever that you can fix on it to be your property, only it is like the linen that you have now at home; may not another person have the same quality, of the same degree of fineness? - It is my sheet.

Q. Did you ever see now any of the same quality of linen belonging to other persons, in other persons houses? - I have not examined other peoples houses.

Q. You must give the jury and my lord some satisfactory answer how you know it; I ask you again how you know it to be your sheet? you must give the jury and my lord some satisfactory answer how you know it? - I never examined so closely.

Q. When did you buy it? how long have you had it? - I cannot particularly say, it has never been mended, it has wore a good while, I have had it, I suppose, as much as two years.

Q. When you bought it, it may be you saw a great deal of linen of the same quality in the shop? - I do not pretend to say.

Q. Will you swear that at the time you bought this linen, there was no more of the same quality as that, that you bought at the shop? - I came here to swear to my sheet, I would be sorry to swear to any thing that is not just.

Q. Will you pretend to swear that your next door neighbour, and all those persons with whom you are not acquainted, may not have linen for sheets exactly of the same quality to that which you are now swearing to? why the sheet sticks close to you, and you to the sheet? Will you take on yourself to swear that your neighbour, or other persons may not have linen of the same quality as you are swearing to? - I have never nothing to do with my neighbours, I have always enough to do at home; I will not swear. I have nothing at all to do with my neighbours.

Q. Will you swear by any mark, or any reason whatever? - I will not swear by any mark or stain, or any thing of the sort, but I know it is mine.

Q. If you had this sheet amongst a deal of linen of the same quality, could you have picked it out as your sheet? - I have one to fellow it at home.

Court to Morrett. How came your master not to attend here? - Because he was not bound over.

Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.

The prisoner called three witnesses who gave him a good character.

GUILTY . (Aged 32.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-17

17. JOHN DORSET was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 6th of December , a woollen cloth great coat, value 3l. the goods of Thomas Foreman .

THOMAS FOREMAN sworn.

I am a coachman ; I lost a woollen cloth coat last Saturday evening, I arrived in Gracechurch-street last Saturday evening, I drive the Chatham, Rochester, and Brompton coach.

Q. What time of the evening? - Between the hours of five and six o'clock; I went up the inn, the Spread Eagle yard, and left a young man, the ostler, with the coach to mind it while I went up the yard.

Q. Where did you leave the coach? - In Gracechurch-street, close to the Spread Eagle gateway, I went up in the yard, and returned back again to my coach, in the mean time, I was putting the reins right in my hand, I had got on the box, while I was putting my reins to rights my coat was drawn from out of the boot, I laid it at the top.

Q. When had you last seen it there? - When I went from the coach into the yard, up to the office. When I was going to draw my horses off the pavement, a man hallooed out, you are robbed, stop thief!

Q. Did you miss it before that? - No, I immediately jumped off my box on the right hand side, on the pavement, and went round to the hind part of my coach and saw the prisoner at the bar with the coat.

Q. How had he the coat? - He had the coat rather hanging on his arm, and holding it in his hand and on his arm, it being a large coat, I could not leave my coach, and the people running I lost sight of him; my ostler he jumped off the other side, and ran after him, and the man that hallooed out stop thief pursued him.

Q. How soon did you see him after this yourself? - He was about twenty yards from the coach when I saw him with the coat.

Q. How soon did you get sight of him again? - He was brought back to me in the space of five minutes, or less.

Q. Are you sure that the man that was brought back was the man that had the coat on his arm? - Yes.

Q. Did any body bring the coat back? - The man that saw him take the coat.

Q. What is that man's name? - His name is Cade, he lives servant to Mr. Barnet the Cheesemonger.

Q. Are you sure that was your coat that was brought back to you? - Yes.

Q. Have you kept that coat from that time to this? - Yes.

Q. Have you it here in court? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. This was between five and six o'clock at night? - Yes.

Q. Last Saturday only, darkish I take it at that time? - Moonlight.

Q. What between five and six o'clock? - Yes, it was.

Q. So you see the prisoner at the bar with the great coat, twenty yards from you nearly, in Gracechurch-street? It is a pretty public place? - Yes; there were lights in the shops.

Q. I know there were lights in the shops. No carriages about? - Nothing on that side of the way but the mob that run between me and him.

Q. You see him nearly twenty yards distant? - Yes, nearly.

Q. Then you mean to swear to the man twenty yards distant? - Yes.

Q. Then you swear pretty home I think.

- CADE sworn.

I am carman to Mr. Barnet the cheese-monger in Gracechurch-street; was going to put up my horse, and going home between the hours of five and six o'clock, and I saw this man the prisoner, he made two

or three attempts to take something out of this coachman's boot, the third time he pulled it off the coach and ran away with it, the coachman and the horse-keeper sat on the coach at the time, they were both on the box at the time, immediately as soon as I saw him take it, I directly cried out stop thief! the coachman and the horse keeper jumped off the coach and ran after him, the prisoner ran about twenty yards from the coach and threw down the coat and I went and picked it up.

Q. Did you lose sight of him before he threw down the coat? - No, I did not.

Q. Did you lose sight of him after? - Yes, I did, I gave the coat to the coachman.

Q. Did you see him any more that evening? - Yes, he was brought back in the course of ten minutes, I am sure it was the same man, I saw him before as he went along, I took particular notice of him.

Q. What was the colour of the coat? - A light coloured coat that I picked up.

Q. Was it a cloth coat? - It was.

Q. Should you know it again? - Yes.(The coat shewn him.)

Q. Do you think that is the coat? - Yes, that is the coat, I am certain of it.

Mr. Knapp. How far was you from the coach when you saw the person first? - About twenty yards, or not quite so much.

Q. Was it a moon light night? - Yes.

Q. How far was you from the person when the coat was dropped? - Much about the same distance.

Q. He was standing with his back to you? - He was running.

Q. You had not an opportunity of seeing his face then? - No, but I had seen his face before.

Q. But when he was running with the coat he had his back to you? - Yes.

JOSEPH HAWKINS sworn.

I am an ostler to the Cross Keys. I heard the cry of stop thief! as I was in the yard on Saturday night, and I looked out and I saw one run by me very fast, I thought it necessary to run after him.

Q. Say if the prisoner is the man? - He is the man, and running through the passage, at the top of the yard, he ran against a woman and he knocked the woman down, and there I stopped him.

Q. At the time you stopped him had he any thing on him? - No, nothing at all.

WILLIAM HARRISON sworn.

I am porter to the coach, and horse keeper both, I was with the coachman on the box, I was with the coachman on the box at the time the coat was took out, sitting on the same side as the coat was taken from.

Q. Did you hear any alarm? - None at all, the coat being a heavy coat when I was pulled out, it brushed my legs, I said to the coachman immediately, your coat is gone.

Q. On that did you hear any alarm? - On that I heard the cry of stop thief I jumped down and hallooed stop the thief, with the coat, on this the coat was dropped at a little distance, I saw the man with it, that is the man in the brown coat.

Q. Did you see the prisoner taken? - I was the second person up to him, I followed the prisoner and hallooed out stop thief! as loud as ever possibly I could, he was making his escape out of the Cross Keys yard into a narrow passage, and he knocked a woman down, I was present by when the man laid hold of him, and the woman was scarce up again before I came up.

Q. Who picked up the coat? - William Cade , the man that saw him take the coat out.

Court to Cade. Did you take up the coat? - I did.

- WARD sworn.

I am a constable, I know nothing more than I took him into custody.

Q. Was the coat delivered to you? - No.(Prosecutor deposes to the coat.)

Prisoner. About half past five I was going up the Cross Keys yard to ask the coachman for a boy, he told me to go to the coach office, and somebody hallooed out stop thief! and one of these men catched hold of me.

The prisoner called four witnesses who gave him a good character.

GUILTY , (Aged 21.)

Imprisoned six months in Newgate , and Publickly Whipped .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-18

18. FRANCES VAUGHAN and JANE BAILY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 6th of November nine cotton shawls, value 1l. 10s. the goods of Thomas Clarke , privately in his shop .

THOMAS BOYD sworn.

I am shopman to Thomas Clarke , linnen draper , No.70, High Holborn . On Thursday the 6th of November, about twelve o'clock, the two prisoners at the bar came into my master's shop and asked to look at some printed cottons for gowns; I shewed them several.

Q. Did they both ask? - I cannot positively say that they both asked; they came in together and conversed together; they asked one anothers opinions on the prints, and they fixed on one which we could not agree for the price of. The prisoners at the bar and me. I shewed them several others and they did not like any of these others; and Bailey replied she would give me two shillings a yard for ten yards, while I was cutting it off and folding it up, Vaughan said that they wanted some cloth, but they had not got the money, and they would come in the afternoon; while I was folding it up I perceived that Vaughan had something very large under her gown, which raised my suspicion, and I fixed my eyes very stedfast on her, Bailey stepped in between us and asked what was most proper for a lining, I recommended her a lining, she desired me to cut her off a yard, which altogether came to one guinea. Vaughan turned about and went towards the door, and Bailey was seeking for a guinea, to pay for the gown; Vaughan got to the door before Bailey laid down the guinea, I immediately gave Mrs. Clarke the guinea, and ran down to the door to apprehend Vaughan, I apprehended her at the door.

Q. Who is Mrs. Clarke, the wife of Mr. Clarke? - Yes. I said to Mrs. Vaughan, ma'am, I want what you have got, from under your gown; I catched hold of her by the arm, and took up her gown, and found these shawls under it.

Q. How many are there-Eight; the constable will produce another.

Q. Had she a cloak on? - I cannot positively say; her gown was lapped over before her.

Q. What did you do with the shawls? - I took them from her, and brought her and them into the shop.

Q. Are they cotton? - Yes. She immediately begged of me to shew her all the mercy I possibly could, and let her go, she would leave the gown that her and her sister bought, or do any thing, if I would let her go.

Q. Did she make use of the word her sister? - No, I think not.

Q. Do you mean to state accurately as to the expression? did she say the gown they had bought, or did she say the

gown she had bought? - She said the gown we have bought; that is exactly the expression, and she said, I will give you any thing, only let me go.

Q. Have you kept those shawls from that time to this? - Yes.

Q. Have you separated them from the other goods? - Yes; these shawls were my master's property.

Q. Did you know they were on the counter at the time? - They were laying on the counter, and I saw them during the time the prisoners were there, under some prints that I were shewing to them.

Q. When did you see the other shawl? - I cannot positively say when I see the other shawl.

Q. When did you first see that shawl after it was missing? Did you see the constable take it from either of them? - I did not; I saw it first about two hours afterwards.

Q. Can you identify that to be your master's? - I cannot say this is ours, because it hath not our private mark.

Q. Was there such a shawl on the counter? - I cannot say.

Q. Do you know how many were missing? - It is impossible out of the quantity of shawls we have, that I cannot tell how many we have got.

Q. What may the eight be worth? - About thirty shillings.

Q. What did they cost apiece? - Three shillings and eleven pence apiece.

Q. They were fit for sale? - Perfectly to.

Q. Were there any other customers in the shop? - Several.

Q. How many of your own people that belonged to the shop were in the shop? - Mrs. Clarke was there; I believe there were about six or seven.

Q. Are they here either of them? - No.

Mr. Knowlys. I know very well you are very correct, and you always give very correct accounts of what passes wherever you go. I take it for granted that you gave the same account to the magistrate as you do now; you omitted no circumstance that is material? - I have told the matter as it passed now.

Q. If any body confessed that they took it and desired you would forgive them, you would not forget that? - Yes, I might forget that; I never said any thing of the kind to the magistrate.

Q. I suppose you was sworn at the magistrate's to tell him the whole truth? - Yes, I was. I did not consider that as material at that time.

Q. How came you to state it now? - I gave it just now as it stands; you desired me to repeat word for word.

Q. Did I ask you what she said about this? - You asked me what expressions.

Q. You meant to say every thing that was material before the magistrate, and yet you left out this circumstance? - I did not.

Q. Now, your master was there, I suppose? - No, he was not.

Q. Your mistress was there? - She was.

Q. How many persons were there at that counter? - There might, perhaps, be one or two besides myself.

Q. As to Mrs. Bailey she said nothing I see, to you; but she bargained for the gown to the amount of a whole guinea, and that she paid for? - Yes.

Q. Whether a gown of that price was about as much as you expect a person of her appearance to bargain and pay for? - Yes.

Q. There was nothing in her appearance? - Nothing except her stepping

in between Vaughan and me, to screen Vaughan, as I supposed.

Q. What did she do there? - She asked my opinion about a lining.

Q. Which lining she purchased and paid for? - She did.

Q. And yet when these people are trying for their lives, when she came in and bargained for a thing, and bought it, you say, that you believe she came in to screen Vaughan? - She took it on my recommendation I believe more than any thing else, I recommended a brown holland.

Q. After she bought that gown did you think a body lining was not a little necessary? - Yes, it was.

Q. Then it was necessary and she came in and asked for one? - It was not necessary for her to say she had got no money.

Q. Did she say that she had got no money? - She coincided with what Vaughan said.

Q. Upon your oath, did Bailey ever say that she had got no money? - She did not make use of those expressions.

Q. Upon the contrary did not she produce her money and pay for the gown? - I did not say contrary to that.

Q. Upon your oath, did she not bargain for the gown and pay for it? - She did.

Q. Then that is all that Bailey did? - That is not, when Vaughan said she had got no money, she would come in in the afternoon to buy some, Bailey said, we will.

Q. When Bailey was apprehended was not she admitted to bail before the magistrate? - She was.

Q. And she has come here and surrendered to take her trial? - She has.

Q. Now again, did your master direct this prosecution? - My master has nothing to say in it; he gave me orders to go and proceed as the law directed; I did not understand it, it was totally left to the justice.

Q. Are they now indicted for a capital offence, yes or no? - Yes.

Q. Do you not know that the justice did not commit them for a capital offence? - No, I do not.

Q. Why is it a capital offence now? - Because it is stealing privately above five shillings.

Q. Perhaps you cannot tell whether the justice committed them for privately stealing in a shop? - I do not know that, I am not sure of that.

Q. Perhaps you had not the curiosity to enquire? - I do not know that I did.

Q. Do you know that you did not? - I do not.

Q. Whether you did not prefer this indictment capitally against the desire of your master? - Yes.

Q. Will you be so good as to take down the question, Mr. Short-hand writer? Upon your oath, did your master direct you to prefer this indictment for a capital offence? You have told me yes, you may recall the answer, if you please. - He gave me no directions about it, but as the law directed.

Q. How came you to say, yes, just before? - I did not understand the question or else I should not have said it; I do not remember the question, you have asked me so many.

Q. Do you mean to say that your master directed you to indict capitally? - He did not give me the least directions for it.

Q. It was just before that you told me that your master directed you to prosecute as the law directed. Perhaps you know what sort of a thing a Tyburn ticket is? - Yes.

Q. Do not you hope to get a Tyburn ticket by prosecuting capitally? - No, I never wished it, nor never shall.

Q. How came you to prefer this indictment for a capital offence? Upon your oath, do not you know that your master wished to the contrary? - No, I do not.

Q. Be cautious. Do not you know that your master wished to the contrary? - No, I do not.

Q. That you swear most positively? - Yes, I do, indeed.

Q. However, you know that you have indicted for a capital offence. Bailey was in the shop and laid down the guinea when you stopped Vaughan? - She was going towards Vaughan at the door, and I went round, and stopped Vaughan as she was going out at the door.

Q. You did not repeat this conversation about the gown before the magistrate? - I did not.

Q. You have indicted for stealing nine shawls; upon your oath, did you say a word before the magistrate about the ninth shawl? - The nine shawls was mentioned, but not by me; it was mentioned before the magistrate.

Q. I ask you, upon your oath, whether you said any thing about the ninth shawl to the magistrate. Was your examination taken down in writing? - I do not know that it was or was not.

Q. Did you sign your examination in writing? - It was a commitment I believe; I signed something, but I declare I do not know what it was.

Q. Upon your oath, was not you first sworn to what you signed? - Yes.

Q. Was not you sworn to that,(the examination shewn him) and was not it read over to you, and you signed it? - Yes.

Q. Is there any thing said about the ninth shawl? - The clerk said there was nothing necessary to say about the ninth shawl.

Q. Did the clerk say so to you? - Yes.

Q. This was taken down at Bow-street, was not it? - Yes.

Q. And the clerk at Bow-street told you so? - He did.

Q. You told me that you did not mention any thing about the ninth shawl; how came the clerk to tell you that you should not mention about the ninth shawl? - She said she bought it of a linen draper, and the linen draper was produced.

Q. Upon your oath, if you never mentioned about the ninth shawl, how came the clerk to tell you that you should not mention about the ninth shawl? - The clerk said that another time would do as well for that, the time of this indictment, to the best of my recollection.

Q. Did you tell him you have not put any thing in about the ninth shawl?(The witness here sainted away.)

EDWARD TREADWAY sworn.

I am a constable. On the 6th of November, I was sent for to Mr. Clarke's; I took the two prisoners into custody, and when I got to Bow-street I searched them, I searched Mrs. Bailey first, and she had nothing at all about her, but three or four guineas in her pocket, and a note, a receipt for stock she had bought; then I went to Mrs. Vaughan, and this shawl she pulled it out of her pocket, and was going to wipe her face with it.(Produces a shawl.)

Mr. Knowlys. Did the young man swear to that? - He said he believed it to be his master's property.

Jury. Is that shawl hemmed? - No; she said she had bought it about three weeks before.

Mr. Knowlys. This woman Bailey was bailed at the magistrate's? - She was.

Q. Did you hear Boyd make any objection to a particular part of her examination? - No, I did not hear that, he said he thought that was his master's property, but the magistrate did not let him have it, but he told me to keep it.

Mr. Knowlys to Boyd. Do you mean to say that the examination was corrected by your desire? - I believe there is no correction in it, I desired it might be looked over, to see if it is right, but the other shawl was not mentioned in it.

Q. And you signed it in that shape? - I did.

Q. Who is concerned in the business with Mr. Clark? - No person.

Q. Are you sure of that? - Yes, I am.

Q. How long have you lived with him? - Near nine years.

Jury. By what mark do you know these shawls? - They are my own making, with S. and l. besides two characters.

Q. Were those marks on them when you took them from the prisoner? - They were on the eight.

Frances Vaughan . I leave it all to my counsel.

Jane Bailey . I went to the shop and bought a gown, and paid for it, that is all I know.

The prisoner Frances Vaughan called fourteen witnesses who all gave her a good character.

The prisoner Jane Bailey called five witnesses who gave her a good character.

Frances Vaughan , Not GUILTY .

Jane Bailey , Not GUILTY.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-19

19. WILLIAM WOODHAM was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 1st of November , five pieces of woollen cloth, value 2s. a cotton counterpane, value 2s. and two blankets, value 2s. the goods of Mary Walter ; and three cloth coats, value 2l. &c. the goods of Thomas Cropper , in the dwelling house of Mary Walter .

MARY WALTER sworn.

I am a widow ; I live at No. 28, Cannon-street, St. George's, Middlesex ; my house was robbed the 1st of November, on a Saturday; I take in washing to support myself and children, and a gentlewoman that I washed for came in about a quarter before six, which occasioned my door to be open, and presently I sent my little girl with the things, I sent her to Old Gravel lane, and a young man that lives with me went with my little girl to Old Gravel lane, and they locked the door after them, I heard it lock, it is a spring lock, I can take my oath of that; they went out ten minutes before six, and then directly after they were gone I heard a noise up in the chamber, and I was afraid of frightening myself, I thought it might be somebody in the next house; and presently I heard the door open, and I was convinced that if any body had been up stairs, I must see them come down, I had not the thought to open the street door, I was in the lower room on the ground floor; directly afterwards I heard something fall in the street, and then I thought to myself, there is some poor man has got his bundle knocked off his head, and I opened the street door, and then a gentleman said I was robbed, and the man set off directly, and cried out stop thief! he got up at the chamber window.

Q. Who cried out stop thief? - A strange gentleman, and I was afraid to leave my place, for fear of being robbed of what I had below; and presently, in

less than ten minutes, it might be five minutes, the property was brought back again.

Q. What was the property brought back? five pieces of woollen curtains, one cotton counterpane, two woollen blankets? - Yes, they were my property.

Q. Were there any other articles brought back to you; three cloth coats, a woollen waistcoat, a pair of breeches, and a pair of linen trowsers? - Yes, they were the property of my lodger; after the things were brought back, he was brought into my house about ten minutes after the things, I do not suppose it was so much.

Q. What were done with the things that were brought back, have you the things? - Yes, the justice gave me that indulgence, to let me have the use of them, I have kept them ever since.

Q. You heard these people go out of the door, was the door open or shut before they went out? - It was kept open while the gentlewoman came for her things, while we were packing up.

Q. Then this door that this gentlewoman left open, was not shut till these two people went out? - It was not.

Q. Then it is possible that a person might have taken the opportunity while the door was open of getting up stairs? - Very easily. (The things produced.) On the counterpane there is a mark, Wissis. I know the curtains by the pattern.

Q. What may be the value of the five pieces of curtains? - I value them altogether for five shillings.

Q. What do you value the counterpane at? - At half a crown.

Q. What may be the value of the two blankets, do you know, they are your's? - I do, I value them at two shillings.

THOMAS CROPPER sworn.

I am a lighterman and waterman .

Q. Do you lodge with the widow, Mrs. Walter? - Yes, I do.

Q. Was you at home at the time the things were taken away? - I was not.

Q. See whether you know the things that are laid to be your's? - There is a coat that the sleeves are partly off, that I can swear to; here is another, here is a stain just on the lappel of it, here is another, it has a patch on the upper part of the pocket.

Q. What may be the value of these three coats? - About three and forty shillings, there is one almost a bran new one, which cost me two pounds ten shillings; there is a pair of linen breeches, I have wore them a long time, I value them at a shilling, a woollen waistcoat, two shillings; the trowsers are french made trowsers, two shillings.

FRANCIS CLARKE sworn.

I am a ship wright, I stopped the man at about a dozen yards from the house, I saw him drop the things; I heard the cry of stop thief.

Q. Had he any thing on him when you stopped him? - Yes, he had a bundle of clothes; he found that I was after him, and he dropped down the bundle and run down the street, I saw him drop the bundle, I never lost fight of him; one Mr. Ward picked up the bundle, but I did not see him, he is here.

Prisoner. I wish to know if he saw me drop it, and how far it was from the house.

JOHN WARD sworn.

Q. Do you know the prisoner? - Yes, I have seen him.

Q. Did you see the prisoner near the house of the widow, Mrs. Walter? - I never see him till he was brought there, I picked the bundle up, I did not see him drop it, I heard the alarm of stop thief.

Q. Were was that bundle? - Near my back gate, within fifty yards of Mrs. Walter's premises; it was in the back lane where the bundle was.

Q. Did you see the man running at all? - No, I did not.

Q. What did you do with it? - I carried it back to Mrs. Walter.

Q. To Mrs. Walter. These things that you produce, were they all delivered to you by Mr. Ward? - Yes.

Q. To Ward. What are you? - A stable-keeper.

Q. You told me, Mr. Ward, that they were dropped in the back-lane, can you say particular where they were dropped? - Right opposite my own house.

Q. To Clarke. Do you know the house of Mr. Ward; was the bundle throwed down opposite his house? - I believe it was, it was in the back lane.

Prisoner. I was coming down Stepney, and as I was coming along the back lane there was this bundle laying there, and three women there asked who it belonged to? I told them I did not know, I was going to take it to the public house to see who it belonged to; and as I was going to take it to the public house, they hallooed out stop thief! and this man came in, and said, I was the man that robbed the house. I have no witnesses, they were here yesterday, but they have not come yet.

GUILTY,

Of stealing, but not in the dwelling house; to the value of 39s . (Aged 20.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-20

20. WALTER DIDDLE was indicted for that he, on the 27th of October , in the parish of St. Clement's Danes, not having the fear of God before his eyes, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, on Hannah Hubbard , single woman , feloniously, wilfully, and with malice aforethought, did make an assault, and that he, with both his hands and feet, on the head, belly, sides and things, then and there did, at divers times violently strike, beat and kick, giving to her, the said Hannah, on her head, bey, fives and thighs, divers mortal bruises, of which said mortal bruises, she languished from the 27th of October to the 24th of November, and then died ; and so the jurors upon their oath say, that he, the said Walter, her, the said Hannah feloniously, and with malice aforethought, did kill and murder. Charged on the coroners inquest with killing and staying the said Hannah Hubbard.

The case opened by Mr. Knowlys.

ANN CAPEL sworn.

Q. You live in the Great Armory, Westminster? - Yes.

Q. Did the deceased person live there? - She did.

Q. Did you at any time see the prisoner do any thing to her? - I saw him kick her. I cannot tell what day it was done.

Q. How long was it before she went to the workhouse a St. Clement's? - I believe it was a fortnight or more, I cannot tell rightly the time.

Q. Whereabouts was it this matter happened? - In Tothill-street, the corner of Steel's-passage .

Q. What time of the day, or night was it? - Between seven and eight o'clock.

Q. Was he drunk or sober at that time, as he appeared to you? - I believe he was sober.

Q. In what condition was the woman at the time she received this injury? - She was with child.

Q. Was she far advanced in her pregnancy? - Yes, very big indeed.

Q. What was the first thing that took place? - He kicked her on the thigh.

Q. How did it happen first of all? - They were having some words.

Q. Where you there when the words first began? - I was by when it began, when he came up.

Q. What was the first thing that passed, tell us the words that took place between them? - She told him to leave her alone, she did not want to say any thing to him, she did not want him to come anigh her.

Q. Had he said any thing? - He had many words with her, but I cannot tell what they were.

Q. What nature were the words? - He wanted her to go and have something to drink, and she would not; she did not want to go with him.

Q. Recollect as well as you can, and tell the very expressions? - I will tell nothing but the truth.

Q. On her saying she would have nothing to do with him, what past then? - He kicked her first and then he hit her over the head three times.

Q. Can you say what part of the thigh the kick came unto? - Just about here, about the thick part of her thigh.

Q. After he had kicked her and struck her these three times, what past then? - He said, you b-h, I will be the death of you. I cannot say any more than what he said.

Q. Before he kicked her and struck her in this way, had she ever struck him or offered to strike him? - No, she did not neither strike him, nor offered to strike him.

Q. Did she say any thing to him beyond the objecting to going with him, and having nothing to do with him? - She told him to leave her alone, for she did not want to speak to him.

Q. What became of him after he had used her in this way? - He went away.

Q. What became of the woman after she was struck in this way? - She went home and went to bed, and very ill she was.

Q. Did you go home with her? - No, I did not go home with her, she went home by herself.

Q. How long was it after she went home when you returned to the house? - About ten o'clock.

Q. When you got home you see her to bed? - No, I did not see her till the next morning when she was very ill, indeed she could not get up out of her bed.

Q. What complaint did she make? - She complained very much of her belly, she could not stand up, when she got up her hands were always upon her belly.

Q. How long had you known her before this matter happened? - I had known her pretty near half a year.

Q. Till she met with this man, what state of health was she in? - She was in a very good state of health, and always could eat her victuals.

Q. Did you see her after she went to the workhouse? - No, I did not, she was dead when I went to her.

Mr. Gurney. What may your way of life have been? - I do soldiers needle work for gaiters.

Q. And get your livelihood by that entirely, will you swear that? take care what you say. Do you get your livelihood by needlework of that sort? - Not all by that.

Q. How do you get your livelihood besides? - I go to my mother's sometimes.

Q. Is that the only manner by which you get your livelihood? - I goes out sometimes.

Q. You was present during the whole of the conversation between the deceased and the young man? - Yes.

Q. Do you recollect yourself again, whether she did not use some very pro

voking expressions? - She made very bad answers to him, that I do not deny.

Q. He very civilly offered her something to drink, and she in return gave him some very provoking words? - She did.

Q. You say he gave her a kick? - Yes.

Q. Describe whereabouts it was? - Just by the knee.

MARY LYONS sworn.

Q. Did you know this Hannah Hubbard ? - Yes

Q. Did you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.

Q. Did you at any time see him do any thing to her, and tell us how it was and when it happened? - I was going up Tothill-street, to the Wheatsheaf, and this young woman was along with me.

Q. How long was this before she went to the workhouse? - It was on the Friday, and she went on the Thursday following.

Q. Did this matter happen before or after this complaint of any hurt on her thigh or belly? - After.

Q. Did you see her when she made any complaint of hurt in her belly? - Yes, it was about seven o'clock in the evening when she came in doors to me.

Q. Was it the very day or some time after, that she received the injury? - The very day she received it.

Q. I do not know whether you have a clock in the house, whether you know the time or not? - As near as I can guess it was about seven o'clock.

Q. Did she complain of her belly or thigh? - Of her thigh, I saw it the same evening, and the next morning.

Q. I would ask you what was the appearance, and whereabouts was it the injury seemed to be? - The upper part.

Q. What was the appearance of it? - It seemed like a kick.

Q. Was there any bruises there? - It looked black.

Q. How far did the blackness, the appearance of the injury extend? - About as broad as my hand.

Q. How was she at that time, the day you saw her? - Before that she was very well, for the condition she was in, but after that she never was well.

Q. What condition was she in, was she big? - To appearance she was between five and six months gone, as near as I can guess.

Q. You say she was ill then, did you see her from that time till she went to the workhouse? - Yes, I was with her all the time.

Q. Did she get well before she went to the workhouse? - No, she was very ill all the whole time.

Q. Did you see her at all after she went to the work house? - Not till I went to the jury.

Q. That was after her death? - yes.

Mr. Gurney. These bruises were a little above the knee? - Yes.

ANN MACQUEEN sworn.

I believe you are one of the nurses in St. Clement's workhouse? - I am.

Q. Did you see this Ann Hubbard when she was brought in? - I did.

Q. Did you attend her from that time till she died? - I did till the night before she died, then she was removed out of our ward.

Q. When she was brought in the workhouse in what condition was she in? - She always complained of the side of her belly; she said a man had kicked her there.

Q. Do you think at that time that she imagined herself to be in danger of dying?

-She said she never should live, from the time she came in.

Q. To whom did she attribute this injury that she had received? - To one Walter Diddle .

Q. Did you see the state of her person? What appearance did you observe on her? - She had a mark rather across the thigh.

Q. Was that the only mark you see? - On the thigh, and the side of her belly looked a little yellow where she was kicked.

Q. How far distant from the thigh? - No great way.

Q. When was she brought into the workhouse? - The 13th of November, I think it was; and she was brought to bed the 16th, three days after.

Q. Was the child that she was brought to bed of living or dead? - Dead.

Q. Had it the appearance of being dead, and had it been dead any time? - About a fortnight, so far as I can form a judgment.

Q. How long did she live after having been brought to bed? - Nine days.

Q. With regard to the injury she received, and from whom, did she mention it once or oftener? - There was not a day she lived she did not mention it.

Q. As often as she mentioned it did she attribute it to the very same person? - To the very same person.

ALICE ARBOR sworn.

Q. I believe you are a midwife? - Yes.

Q. Do you attend the workhouse of St. Clement's Danes? - Yes.

Q. Was you called upon to attend this poor distressed woman? - Yes.

Q. Did you deliver her? - No.

Q. How came you not to deliver her? - Because it was a difficult case, and I could not.

Q. What assistance did you call in? - Mr. Cooper.

Q. Did you see her long before she was delivered? - I was with her all the day preceding the delivery; I was with her all the day before she was delivered.

Q. Did you see the state of her person? Did she shew you any part of her person? - I did.

Q. What did you see? - She had a kick on her left side, just here, on the side.

Q. What side was it, the right or the left? - The left side.

Q. Do you mean the thigh part of her body? - Just below her ribs, on her belly.

Q. Did you observe the thigh? - Yes, there was a mark there, which was rather black, white and purple.

Q. When she was delivered, was the child living or dead? - The child was dead.

Q. Had it been long dead, in your judgment? - I think, in my judgment, about a fortnight.

Q. Did you hear the poor woman make any expressions how she came by that injury? - I had heard her say several times, the day I was with her, O, Watt I you have been the death of me! she said that several times to herself.

Q. How long did she live after her delivery? - Nine days.

Q. Did she, at all, mend or get better after her delivery? - She got a little better on Monday, but she was very bad again on Monday night; she was delivered on Sunday night.

Q. Could you form any judgment of the cause of her death? - No; I think it was owing to the kick that she received.

Mr. Gurney. You found this a difficult case, and your skill was not sufficient to deliver her, and then you called in one Dr. Cooper. Now, I take it for granted, your's is not so good an account of her death as Dr. Cooper's will be? - I really take that to be the cause of her death.

Q. That is not an answer; but I take it for granted, you do not apprehend yourself to be so good a judge of the cause of her death as the surgeon? - Certainly not.

Q. Pray which should you think was the cause of her death, that you see on her thigh or that on her belly? - That on her belly.

Q. Then you do not think that the kick on her thigh could be the cause of her death? - I cannot say.

Dr. JOHN COOPER sworn.

Q. You have practised in the midwifry department many years? - Yes.

Q. Was you called in to attend the labour of this poor woman, Mrs. Hubbard, in the workhouse? - I was. I found she had a fever on her, and she complained of a pain in her side; I asked her how long she had been ill, and had had that pain in her side? she said, about a fortnight; the labour was over in about an hour, but the pain in her side increased.

Q. Did you hear her attribute any cause to the pain in her side? - I heard one of the women say, but I did not hear the woman herself say.

Q. Did you observe any marks about her person? - The body was opened about nine or ten days afterwards.

Q. Had you formed any judgment of the cause of her death? - It appeared to me that that fever was the immediate cause of her death.

Q. Was you called upon to form any judgment as to any violence about her, at the time she was delivered? - No, I was not.

Q. The child we have heard was born dead? - Yes, and it had been dead some time.

Q. You attended that dissection, were there any external marks, or internal, by which you could form a judgment of any injury having been done to the woman? - Not that I could trace to any external injury.

Mr. Gurney. You was called upon to deliver this woman because it was a difficult case? - I believe her fever made the midwife think it was more difficult than it really was.

Q. You believe the fever was the cause of her death; you was present at the dissection? - I was.

Q. And of course you have examined whether any external injury whatever could occasion her death? - She was opened by my desire for that express purpose.

Q. And from the accurate inspection you made, you are of opinion that there were no external injury that could produce the consequence that followed? - That is my opinion.

BRYAN CROWDER sworn.

I am a surgeon in Boswell-court, Cary-street.

Q. Did you open the body of this poor distressed woman? - I did.

Q. Had you heard of any external injury she had received? - I was told she had been kicked.

Q. Upon examining the body what did you find? - Upon opening the body there was an appearance of a great inflammation, and in consequence of that inslammation there was a large deal of matter floating on the surface of the bowels, but no external injury.

Q. Could you, from your judgment, tell whether it was occasioned by any external injury? - I should think that the death was not occasioned by any external injury.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-21

21. THOMAS WALTER was indicted for that he, on the 2d of December , in the parish of St. Margaret's Westminster, not having the fear of God before his eyes, but being moved and seduced by the instigation of the Devil, with force and arms, on John Marsh , in the peace of God and our lord the king, feloniously, wilfully, and with malice aforethought, did make an assault, and that he, the said Thomas Walter , with a certain drawn cutlass, value 1s. which he then and there, in his right hand, had and held, giving the said John Marsh , in and upon the left side of the belly, below the short ribs, did strike and thrust, thereby giving a mortal wound of the breadth of two inches and depth of six inches, of which mortal wound, he, the said John Marsh , died ; and so the jurors upon their oath say that he, the said Thomas Walter , did the said John Marsh feloniously and with malice aforethought kill and murder. Charged on the coroner's inquest, with killing and slaying the said John Marsh.(The case opened by Mr. Knapp.)

ELIZABETH GREEN sworn.

I lodge at No. 9, Great Armory.

Q. Do you know this Marsh? - I have known him five months.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I never see him before that evening.

Q. What evening was it? - Tuesday evening, the 2d of December.

Q. Tell us how this matter happened- Elizabeth Mitchell , and I were together, we went through the Horse Guards, and at the Horse Guards Gate, Sampson and the prisoner at the bar, were at the front gate, and I and Elizabeth Mitchell asked Simpson and the prisoner, if they would give us some thing to drink; with that they took us to the bar at the Horse guards, and treated us with two half pints of gin.

Q. Did you all partake of the gin, or only you women? - All four of us.

Q. About what time of the evening was this? - About four o'clock.

Q. After you drank your gin, what became of you? - We all four went home together to our own lodgings.

Q. Where was your lodgings? - No. 9, Great Armory, Westminster .

Q. Where did Mitchell lodge her companion, in the same house? - She lived up in the garret, and I lived in the two pair of stairs.

Q. Is the garret immediately over your room? - No, it is a double house; I lodged in the room on the right hand side, and she lodged on the other side of the house, not immediately over my room.

Q. When you got to your room, what happened? - They treated us with some supper of mutton chops and beef stakes.

Q. Had you any thing to drink? - Two pots of beer, and two half pints of gin and rasberry besides; after we supped about half past nine o'clock, the prisoner at the bar went up to bed with Elizabeth Mitchell .

Q. Who remained in the room? - James Sampson , he got into my bed.

Q. Did you go to bed? - I had not been into bed, I was almost undressed, but I had not got into bed; in about a quarter of an hour before ten Marsh came up stairs and knocked at the door.

Q. Was he accustomed to visit you? - Yes.

Q. Did you expect him that evening? - No, he left me in the morning at half past five o'clock, he told me he would not come down that evening, he said he was upon guard the next morning.

Q. He was a soldier I suppose, by saying he should be upon guard; what regiment

was he in? - The first regiment of life guards.

Q. On his knocking at the door, what past then? - I got up from the chair by the fire, and bid him come in.

Q. Was there any light in the room? - Two candles burning on the table.

Q. When he came in, what past? - He sat down in the chair by the fire, and I sat on his knee.

Q. Where was Sampson at that time? - In bed. He said to Sampson, friend, will you get up?

Q. How was that said, in anger or otherwise? - Not in anger at all.

Q. Did he appear to be angry at seeing Sampson there at all? - No, he did not.

Q. What answer did Sampson make? - Sampson immediately got up and put on his clothes.

Q. Did Sampson say any thing then? - Not directly. Sampson says to Marsh, friend, you will not affront me; Marsh made answer, friend, if you do not affront me, I will not affront you.

Q. Were they easy and quiet, or quarrelling with each other? - Not quarrelling at all.

Q. When Sampson got on the floor he went towards the door and called, Tom, come down stairs, I will not stay, here is a man in the room.

Q. Who did you understand him to mean by calling out Tom? - I understood he meant the prisoner at the bar.

Q. Had he called him Tom in the course of the evening? - Yes.

Q. What had passed when he had called out to him? - I heard somebody coming down stairs.

Q. Was it immediately on Sampson calling out to him? - I heard somebody coming down stairs.

Q. Was it immediately on Sampson calling out to him? - Yes, immediately. I said to Marsh, he is coming down stairs, he shall not come in.

Court. Was the door at the bottom of the stairs? - Yes.

Q. The door that came to your room was close to the bottom of the stairs? - Yes, close to the bottom of the stairs.

Q. Now, was the way down stairs through your room? - No, my door opened at the foot of the three pair of stairs; as you come down stairs, my door opens on the right hand side.

Q. What was there on the door, was there a lock? - There is no lock on it, there is a padlock outside to fasten It when I went out.

Q. Was there no fastening inside? - Nothing inside.

Mr. Knowlys. Does the door open into the room, or out on the stair case? - Into the room.

Q. On hearing this person come down stairs, what did you do? - Marsh and I both got up and went and stood against the door.

Q. When you was standing against the door did you perceive any thing? - I did not perceive any thing, but I heard somebody at the door.

Q. Did the person at the door say any thing? - No, never spoke.

Q. Did either of you speak? - No, never spoke. When Marsh came from the door he fell down by the chair by the fire.

Court. How long were Marsh and you at the door, before Marsh went from the door? - Not a minute, not a moment.

Mr. Knowlys. At the time the person came to the door, did Sampson say any thing, or do any thing? - No, never spoke a word. When Marsh came from the door, the prisoner at the bar pushed against the door, and he fell in on his knees, when he fell in on his knees, he had nothing but his shirt and his drawn sword in his hand; as soon as the door was open Sarah Smith ran into the room on hearing a noise.

Q. Who is Sarah Smith, a lodger in the same house? - Yes; she said Marsh is fainting, I went to the fire to him, and I saw him all over blood.

Q. At this time did the prisoner say any thing? - No, I never saw him after he fell in, in his Shirt naked into the room, he ran out immediately.

Q. Did Sampson say any thing, or do any thing? - No, I never heard him speak a word, finding the deceased all over blood, I unbuttoned both his waistcoats, and clapped my hand on the wound, and hallooed out for somebody to run for a surgeon, for he was murdered.

Q. Did any surgeon come? - Yes, he was dead when the surgeon came.

Q. How long did he live after he received this would? - About half an hour.

Q. Where was the would? - Just below his left breast was a great quantity of blood; it was lower than the breast, just below the ribs.

Q. What became of Sampson? - He staid in the room all the while.

Q. Was you present when they took the prisoner at the bar? - No, he was gone away.

Q. Did you see how the deceased received the wound? - He stood up with his left shoulder against the door, but I did not see the sword come through the door.

Q. Was there a hole in the door? - Yes, there was, that I could put my hand through.

Q. Do you mean that the sword that went through the hole, that that could move about, or was it so small that it stuck? - He might move it about, for I could put my hand through the door.

Q. Was you present when he was taken? - No, I was not, but they took me to the watch-house, and the prisoner was there.

Mr. Knapp. You stated to this court at the beginning of this business, that the prisoner at the bar and Sampson were perfect strangers to you before this time - Yes.

Q. I believe Marsh, the man who had kept you company for some time, and the prisoner at the bar, Sampson, were as much strangers as you were to them? - Yes, never saw each other before.

Court. As the prisoner stood against the door, did he compleatly cover the hole? - I never saw him through the hole.

Q. I do not mean the prisoner, I mean the deceased, did he compleatly cover the hole? - He stood with his shoulder against the door.

Q. How high was the hole? - It is about a yard from the floor, rather more than the middle of the door.

Q. You said a yard from the floor? - Yes, it is the middle of the door, as near as can be.

Mr. Knowlys. This hole then you say was about the middle of the door, you and the deceased, Marsh, stood against the door? - Yes.

Q. Of course you stood by the hole? - Yes, by it, I stood on his right side.

Q. There was no light on the stair case at this time? - No.

Q. How long a time think you might elapse from the time that the prisoner went up stairs with his lady, to the time this accident took place? - About half an hour.

Q. So that there was time enough for the prisoner to have been asleep? However half an hour had elapsed in that time? The prisoner at the bar and the woman had been perfectly quiet from the time that you parted with them, to the time that you saw him? - Yes; as soon as he got up stairs, Sampson and I went up to him, and Sampson borrowed some money of him, and Sampson came down stairs and went to bed, I was not quite undressed.

Q. From the quantity of liquor you drank together, was the prisoner at the bar perfectly

sober? - He did not seem intoxicated in liquor.

Q. Were you intoxicated in liquor, with this rasberry, beer, and gin? - No, I was not.

Q. You drank a good deal you know? - I gave one of my glasses to the life guard that was on guard.

Q. You say the prisoner never-spoke at the door? - No, I never heard him speak a word.

Q. Then he did not say on Sampson's calling to him to come down stairs, take case, I will frighten them? - No, I am sure he never spoke.

Q. Immediately as Sampson called to his comrade, he came down? - Yes, immediately.

Q. This was at ten o'clock at night? and after you had parted for the night? - Yes.

Q. He came down in his shirt, and attended the call of his comrade? - He did.

Q. Now as you stated at the beginning, they were perfect strangers, the prisoner and the deceased, so that they had not an opportunity of having any quarrell? - No.

ELIZABETH MITCHELL sworn.

Q. I believe you lodged in the house where this melancholy accident took place? - Yes.

Q. Tell us what you know of the business, how it happened? - This Elizabeth Green and I last Tuesday night was a week, were going out, going up towards, Charing Cross, we met these two soldier s.

Q. Who do you mean by the two soldiers? - Thomas Walter and Sampson; and this Elizabeth Green asked them to give us something to drink, and they went up to the Horse Guards bar, and gave us two half pints of gin.

Q. Where did you go to from the Horse Guards? - We went home to our own lodgings, we went into Green's lodging room, and abided till about half an hour, and then we had some supper along with these two men, Walter and Sampson,

Q. What had you to drink after your supper? - We had some gin and rasberry.

Q. What quantity? - I cannot rightly say, Elizabeth Green fetched it.

Q. Had you any thing besides the gin to drink with your supper? - Two pots of porter.

Court. By pots, you mean quarts? - Yes.

Q. Was you sober or otherwise any of you? - We were sober enough.

Q. After supper what became of you? - This Thomas Walter and I went up stairs into my own room to bed.

Q. What floor is your room on? - In the Garret, three pair of stairs.

Q. How many pair of stairs is Green's? - Two pair of stairs.

Q. Is your room over Green's? - Yes.

Q. When you went to bed, what happened then? - We had been in bed almost a quarter of an hour, and this Sampson called out to him, come down, for I will not stop here any longer; and he immediately took the sword the chair by the bed side, and went down stairs.

Q. As the sword lay on the chair was it in its sheath or drawn? - It was in its sheath when he put it in the chair.

Q. Do you know whether he took it down in its sheath, or drew it before he went down? - I do not know, he took it and said he would see his comrade righted.

Q. Had he been asleep before his companion called out to him? - No; then he went down stairs.

Q. Now what was the first thing you saw after he had gone down stairs? - I heard an alarm in Elizabeth Green's room, and then I went down stairs.

Q. When you went down did you see the prisoner? - No,

Q. Where was he? - I cannot tell.

Q. Did you see him again? - Not after he left the room on the call of Sampson, till he was taken up.

Q. How did you find the man, Marsh? - I went down into Elizabeth Green's room, and this Marsh was by the fire place and Elizabeth Green and Sampson stood by the door, Elizabeth Green called out, and said somebody go for a doctor, Marsh laid by the fire place, and I went and unbuttoned his waistcoat and tore his shirt down, and helped to stop the blood.

Q. Was you there when he died? - No.

Q. How long did you stay there? - About an hour, or not so much, she called out for a doctor, she would not believe that any body had been for a doctor, and I went for a doctor, and got two surgeons of the Infirmary, and he was dead before they came.

Mr. Knapp. You and your partner lodged in this house altogether? - Yes, all three, me, Green and Smith.

Q. How many more? - Four or five more.

Q. I do not mean to offend you. Were they the same fort as yourself? - Yes.

Q. When the prisoner retired to rest with you he thought he was going to sleep for the night? - Yes.

Q. He naturally supposed something was going wrong, and he said he would go and right his comrade; He had never attempted to take his sword in his hand before? - No.

SARAH SMITH sworn.

Q. You lodged in this house I understand? - Yes.

Q. What did you see of this business? - I was down stairs and I heard a noise up stairs, and I went up stairs and saw a man naked, only with his shirt on.

Court. Did you go up stairs with a candle or without a candle? - With a candle.

Q. And saw a man naked? - Yes.

Q. With a sword in his hand, through the door? - His hand was through the door, with the sword in his hand, and when the door broke in he took the sword out.

Q. Did the sword stick in the door? - Yes, in his hand.

Q. Then the sword you say stuck in the door? - Yes, his hand was with it.

Q. Do you mean that the sword had stuck in the door, or his hand with the sword in the door? - His hand was with the sword in the door, and he fell down with pulling the sword out, and the door bursted in.

Q. Did the point of the sword stick in the door, or was his hand through the door? - His hand was not through the door, I saw the sword inside the door, and the door bursted in with his pulling his hand out, and he fell down.

Q. But you did not see what became of the man with that shirt and sword? - No.

Q. Did you see the deceased? - Yes.

Q. Was he wounded? - Yes, in the side, I saw the blood run out.

Mr. Knapp. You say you did not hear the prisoner say any thing at all? You did not observe that he was crying at the time when he went away? - I did not see him.

Court. Did you observe enough to be able to tell me whether any of them were drunk or sober? - I cannot say, I was not in company.

Q. No, but when you came up did any party appear to be in liquor? - No, very sober, Mr. Sampson was.

WILLIAM SAMPSON sworn.

Q. Was you in company with the prisoner at the bar at the time, the evening this accident happened? - The prisoner and me were going up by the Horse Guards, and as we came opposite the Horse Guards we met these two girls, and we went into the Horse Guards, and had something to drink, we had two half pints of gin, he paid for one and I paid for the other; so after that, we agreed to go down with these two girls to the Broad Hambury, we went with them and got up stairs, and had something to drink, we had two pounds of beef steaks and mutton chops together for supper, and two pots of porter.

Q. No other liquor of any sort? - Not that I know of, to the best of my knowledge we had not any.

Q. After you had had your supper what became of your company? - The prisoner he went up stairs with that other girl.

Q. At the time he went away was he drunk or sober? - He was not sober nor he was not drunk.

Q. How was you? - I was a little in liquor, not much.

Q. After he left you with Mitchell what became of you? - I staid in the room while he went up stairs, and I had not money enough in my pocket to pay this girl, and I went up stairs to him, and borrowed eight pence of him or nine-pence of him, and so I came down again into the room, to Elizabeth Green's room, where I supped, so I gave her the residue of the money, and pulled off my clothes and went into bed, I had not been in bed above five minutes before this man came to the door.

Q. Did the woman come in to bed? - No.

Q. Who came to the door? - The deceased, Marsh, he came to the door, and she let him in, and when I found he was in the room I got out of bed and went to the door, and I said to him come down, for I shall not stay here any longer.

Q. Before you called out to him to come down, had Marsh, and you quarrelled at all? - No, not quarrelled, no words at all, any more than he said, my friend, if you will not offend me I shall not offend you.

Q. What followed then? - I went back to the bed and put on my clothes as fast as I could, and this Marsh he stepped up to the door, and while I was putting on my clothes I saw him come reeling back, and he fell back to the fire place.

Q. How long after he had gone to the door was it before he came back reeling? - It might be two or three minutes.

Q. Was there any thing said the outside of the door by any body? - No, I never heard a word pass from within side or outside.

Q. When Marsh fell back reeling, what did you see then? - This girl, Elizabeth Green, she went and assisted him at once.

Q. Did you see your companion at all? - No, I did not see any thing of him.

Q. What part of the room was you then in when Marsh was reeling back? - By the bedside.

Q. You did not see your companion at all? - No, I did not.

Q. You saw Marsh was wounded? - Yes.

Q. How long did you stay in the room after Marsh received the hurt? - Till he was dead, till I was taken charge f; I said I would not go out of the room at all, and I staid till I was taken charge of.

Q. Did you give information were they might take your companion? - They asked me whether I knew the man? I told them yes.

Q. Did you go with them to take your companion? - Yes.

Q. Where did you find him? - In his bed, in the place where he and I used to sleep.

Q. Was he asleep? - Dead asleep.

Q. How long was it after this unfortunate accident that you took him? - It might be pretty near an hour or thereabouts.

Q. When he was taken did any body say any thing to him? Did he say any thing about this matter? - Not that I heard of.

Q. Did you go all the way with him to the watch-house? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. Sampson you knew not any thing of Marsh before, nor the prisoner at the bar never knew any thing of him before? - No.

Q. The prisoner at the bar never has seen him down to this moment, only when he fell in the room, of course there had never been any quarrel subsisting between them at all? - No, none at all.

Q. The prisoner you say you did not see after he went home to his quarters? - I never see nothing of him.

Q. You found him at the place he would naturally go to? - Yes.

Q. You say you do not know what he said going to the watch-house, or whether he said any thing? - No, not that I heard.

Q. Did you hear him say any thing at any time? - No, not at any time.

Mr. Knowlys. What arms did your companion wear? - I believe they call it a cutlass.

Mr. Knapp. You say you had had some gin at the Horse Guards, and when you got back, got to this woman's apartments you had two pots of porter, and you was what they call half seas over, that is what I am to understand of you? - Yes.

Q. He never came down stairs till you called him? - No.

Q. You did not hear him say what the other witness did, that he would come down and see his comrade righted? - I did not.

Q. How long had you known this prisoner at the bar? - Five or six weeks.

Q. What regiment is he in? - The Coventry regiment.

Q. Is it in the Coventry regimant of Militia? - No, an independent company.

Q. You had known him five or six weeks? - Acquainted with him in that regiment.

Q. During that time what sort of disposition? Was he a well meaning man? - A very quiet sober man as could he, as good behaved man as can be.

Court. Did you see the deceased and the woman go to the door? - I did not see the woman go, I saw the deceased go.

Q. Did you see whereabouts he stood? How near the door? - He stood with his right breast close to the door.

Q. Did you see a hole in the door? - No, I never see any hole in the door.

Q. Now I want to know whether a person on the outside of the door could at the time posibly tell who it was stood

inside against the door? - No, I do not suppose they could.

Q. Then for any thing a person might know to the contrary, in running the sword through, it might strike you or the woman, or the deceased, or any body else? - Yes.

ROBERT GREENHILL sworn.

I am a watchman; I went with this man to apprehend the prisoner at the Admiralty coffee house.

Q. As you was going to take him into custody, did you hear him say any thing? - He was very sorry for what he had done,and he must suffer for it.

Q. How came he to say that? - I do not know.

Mr. Knapp. He did not attempt to deny any thing that he had done, as the cause of this man's death, but he said he was sorry for it, and be must take the consequence of it? - Yes.

Court. I suppose that was after they told him the man was dead? - I cannot say that.

THOMAS BARKER WATKINS sworn.

Q. You are landlord of this house where the prisoner was quartered? - I am.

Q. After he was apprehended did you go into his room for his side arms? - I did.

Q. Where did you find them? - By the side of the bed.

Q. What was it? - A cutlass; the arms that he wore.

Q. Did you unsheath it? - Not till I came below in the passage of my house.

Q. What was the appearance of the weapon? - There was blood on it.

Mr. Knapp. The prisoner said some thing at the time he was apprehended? - Not to my knowledge.

Q. He did not deny that this was his sword at all? - No, I did not see the prisoner at that time.

Court. You say the prisoner was quartered at your house, what character has he borne since he was quartered at your house? - Very peaceable and quiet.

JAMES BLY sworn.

Q. I believe you are constable of St. Margaret's parish? - I am.

Q. Did you apprehend this man? - I did.

Q. As he was going to the watch-house did he say any thing, and what did he say? - As soon as I got him out of the house I fastened him, and then I told him I was very sorry to tell him that I had a charge of murder against him.

Q. Did you say any thing further to him? - I asked him how he came to commit so horrid a deed? he said he was very sorry for it, that it was done and he supposed he should suffer for it. I questioned him then with what his comrade said to him when he called him out of the room; and he said, that his comrade called him, and told him that he believed he was stuck with the bayonet. I did not after that question him any further, only respecting his sword. After he was at the watch-house it was intimated to me what had become of the sword that he had done the mischief with; I asked him where the sword lay? and he said, it lays under the bed; in consequence of that I sent two patroles immediately for the sword.

Mr. Knapp. I believe he appeared extremely concerned at what had happened? - He rather seemed stupid, he said he was sorry.

Court. Do you mean that he appeared stupid in liquor? - When I first came into the room, to the best of my knowledge, he was perfectly asleep, if it was feigned sleep I could not discover it;

at the time of his getting up he seemed rather stupid, but when he came out of the house he was rather solid then.

HENRY WARNE sworn.

Q. I believe you are house surgeon to Westminster Hospital? - Yes.

Q. Did you see the deceased? - Yes.

Q. Did you see the wound? - Yes.

Q. In your judgment was that the occasion of his death? certainly. I opened the body on Thursday, and I found the weapon had gone through the liver, opened the stomach, ruptured the aorta, and caused a great contusion in the vessels; it was impossible any man could exist after he had received such a wound as that.

Prisoner. Sampson called me down when I was up stairs and almost asleep, I got out of bed, and my sword was laid drawn on the chair and I catched up my sword, I was between sleeping and waking, I catched my sword up, and when I came down stairs I pushed my sword against the door, but I did not know there was a hole there; the man stood up against the door so that I could not see through that there was any hole, so I put the sword against the door before I hardly got down the steps, and it happen ed to go into the hole, and ran right into the man; but I never saw the man before nor never see him at any time, only when I fell in.

GEORGE WILLIAM DAVIS sworn.

I am ensign in colonel Troughton's regiment, a new raised regiment, called the Coventry regiment. The prisoner at the bar was a recruit, come up from Bristol about five or six weeks, he has not been in London but above a week.

Q. During the time that you have had an opportunity of knowing him, what sort of character does this man bear? - I heard the man that brought him to me give him an excellent character; he has gone down to Bristol to get the Mayor and other gentlemen of Bristol to sign his character there, not thinking his trial would come on till Friday.

Not GUILTY , on both Counts.

Tried by the Second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-22

22. ELIZABETH HARRISON and MARY QUINLAN were indicted for burglariously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Tamerlane Hordes about the hour of nine in the night, in the parish of St. George's, Bloomsbury, and burglariously stealing therein, seven linen sheets, value 2l. three linen napkins, value 5s. one linen shift, value 2s. two cambrick pocket handkerchiefs, value 7s. a toilenet waistcoat, value 2s. two pair of dimity pockets, value 1s. a check apron, value 1s. a muslin handkerchief, value 2s. a muslin shawl, value 2s. and a dimity petticoat, value 2s. the goods of the said Tamerlane Hordes .

ELIZABETH HORDES sworn.

I am the wife of Tamerlane Hordes; I live at the Crown, in Thorny-street .

Q. Has your husband a house of his own? - Yes.

Q. In November last, the 14th of that month, did any thing happen at your house? - Yes. On the 14th of November , I had been ironing in a little back parlour in my house, at the hour of nine we had a great deal of company in the tap room, my husband I called me out of the parlour to assist him in the business for a short time; on my return, which was in the course of half an hour after -

Q. Had you left any person in that room, any body at all? - No. When I returned the parlour sash was pushed up to the top.

Q. Did the sash communicate with the street? - It opened into a court where there is no thoroughfare, the court belongs to us.

Q. Are you certain, with respect to the time, what hour it was? - It was as near nine o'clock as possibly it could be when I left the room, as near as I can guess it was a quarter after when I returned.

Q. Were all the things that you charge to be taken away in the room when you quitted it? - All of them.

Q. When you came back again what did you observe? - I observed the sash pushed up, and the basket I left in the room, laying at a distance, and the things laying in a disorderly manner about the room, and foot marks in the room, and a great quantity of linen taken out of the basket, what is laid in the indictment.

Q. Can you recollect all the articles that were missing? - I believe I can. Seven sheets, three napkins, two missing but only one laid in the indictment, two common check pocket handkerchiefs, two muslin caps, a toilenet waistcoat, two pair of dimity pockets, a check apron, a muslin handkerchiefs, a muslin shawl, and a dimity petticoat. They were all taken away.

Q. What did you do in consequence of this discovery? - The next morning I took one of our lodgers with me, and went to a number of different pawnbrokers.

Q. Did you discover any thing? - I did.

Q. Where? - At a pawnbroker's in Bridges-street, Covent-garden; I was just going to give a description of the linen that I had lost, and while I was going about that there were two women came in, one that is the prisoner at the bar, and another that is an evidence here now, the one at the bar that came in was Elizabeth Harrison ; I stood in the public shop, I was just just going to give a description of my things, and the woman pretended to be in a very great hurry to go to work, and she untied the handkerchief and produced the white dimity petticoat of mine, which I claimed to be my property; I stood at the same counter with her.

Q. In consequence of that you sent for an officer, I suppose? - Yes.

Q. Did an officer take her into custody? - Yes, the two of them.

Q. In that handkerchief were there any other articles belonging to you? - No more, only that white petticoat.

Q. Is that dimity petticoat in court? - Yes, the pawnbroker has got it.

Q. Had you been in possession of that petticoat some time? - Yes, I had had it a long time; I know it by the singular top that it has got to it; the binding at the top.

Q. What is there remarkable in that binding? - The binding is put on the wrong way of the stuff. I know it to be my own immediately I saw it. I have had it two years.

Q. After the constable came were they taken before a magistrate? - yes, to Bow-street.

Q. Did any thing pass there material to inform the court? - Nothing at all that I recollect. The officer searched her lodgings,where they found one or two articles belonging to me besides this coat that they had pledged at different places; there was a petticoat and two aprons of a servant that lives with me. My muslin shawl that is named in the indictment, was found in one of these women's beds, amongst their bed clothes.

Q. Where do they reside? - In St. Giles's.

Q. Was you present at the time it was found? - No, the officers searched her room, the one is Mr. Taylor and the other is Mr. Ruthwin; there was a coloured apron and one shift found likewise in the room, of mine.

Q. Have you any other ground to charge the prisoner at the bar for taking these things, except it being produced by her at the pawnbroker's? - No other.

Q. Have you any thing to offer respecting the other prisoner, Mary Quinlan ? - Nothing at all; Mr. Flood committed her for receiving my things.

ANN ROCHFORD sworn.

I live in Mary Quinlan's house as a lodger, in St. Giles's, and the other prisoner; we all live in one room.

Q. Is that house of Quinlan's near Mr. Hordes public house? - Yes, as nigh as it might be to the top of the Oldbailey. On Friday evening the 14th day of the month, Elizabeth Harrison came up and brought these things in, and said, she found them; there was one dimity coat, one coloured coat, one shift, four handkerchiefs, two pair of dimity pockets, one was a white shawl, a half shawl, and the other was a pocket handkerchief.

Q. What time of the evening was it? - Much about ten o'clock -

Q. She brought them in the common room that you all had? - Yes, that we all laid in.

Q. Did she say any thing when she brought them in, and where she got them from? - She said she had had a good find, and that she had found them among some straw; and there were some straw among them, when she brought them up, she took them out and shewed them to me, as I sat by the fire side, she took one apron and went to a chandler's shop for a little bread and a little dripping, and a little sugar, for her supper.

Q. Did she sell them? - No, she only left it for security, one old white apron, nothing else; the next morning she called me up, and asked me to go along with her to pledge this petticoat, I went with her to the pawnbroker's in Bridges-street, because I used there.

Q. Are you sure that that dimity petticoat was one that was brought home by her the night preceding? - Mrs. Hordes came in while I was standing at the counter; as soon as I clapped the handkerchief on the counter and untied it Elizabeth Hordes said that was her petticoat, and I said, this property does not belong to me, it belongs to this young woman; perhaps, says I, this silk handkerchief I have got on my neck belongs to you? she said she did not know whether it did or no. I told the officer where the other things were.

Q. You was apprehended? - Yes.

Q. Were you discharged when you came before the magistrate, or committed to prison? - I was discharged; I am a poor woman, I have got three small children, and I went with her because she said she would lend me a trisle when she had pledged the petticoat, I wanted a little money to go to market.

WILLIAM CUFF sworn.

On Saturday morning, the 15th of November, between ten and eleven o'clock, Elizabeth Harrison , the prisoner at the bar, and Ann Rochford , came in the shop together, and Ann Rochford offered to pledge the dimity petticoat; at the same time as they were in the shop, Mrs. Hordes came in, and saw the petticoat lay on the counter, and she said it was her petticoat, and stolen out of her house on the 14th of November, the night before, with some more goods.

Q. You carry on the pawnbroking business in Bridge's-street? - Yes

Q. For what purpose did Mrs. Horde come to your shop? - To give account of the loss.

Q. When she came in she found them in your shop? - Yes, I then sent to the public office at Bow-street for an officer, and they were both taken into custody.

Q. She claimed that that was offered to pledge by Harrison? - By Rochford.

Q. Rochford and Harrison were togethre? - Yes.

Q. They were taken to Bow-street? - Yes.

JOSEPH TAYLOR sworn.

On Saturday, the 15th of November, I took the prisoner into custody at the pawnbroker's, I am an officer belonging to Bow street.

Q. Did you search them when they were taken into custdoy? - Yes, both of them.

Q. Was any thing found on their persons? - Nothing at all, the last witness Rochford, informed me that she lodged at Mrs. Quinlan's, in Dyot-street, St. Giles's; and she informed me that some part of the things were left there in her room in St. Giles's, the prisoner informed me at the same time, that she had left a check apron with this Mrs. Quinlan, for her night's lodging; I went there and enquired of Mrs. Quinlan if she knew any thing of them? she told me she did not; I then went and searched the room where the prisoner lodged, and found nothing there, not the first time; I went the second time, and took Ann Rochford with me, and under one of the beds in the room, I found this muslin shawl; there were three or four beds in the room; I afterwards found these few odd things at a chandler's shop (shews the things) in the neighbourhood; this apron at one chandler's shop, and these other things at another.

Q. To Mrs. Horde. (The things shewn her.) Look at that shawl, was that one of the things you lost? - I know it from a pin hole on one side, and I have got the other half; the pockets are mine, they are patch work of my own doing.

Q. When you went out of the parlour where you had been ironing to attend the company in the tap room, had you thrown up the window for air, or any thing else? - No, I had not, it was a dampish evening.

Q. The shutters were not put down? - No, they were not.

ARCHIBALD RUTHWIN sworn.

I am an officer.

Q. Did you find any part of the property of Mr. Hordes? - On the 15th I went down to the pawnbroker's and brought Harrison up, and I searched her, and on her I found a duplicate of an apron that had been pawned that same evening for eight-pence; we sent for the pawnbroker, and he had given up the apron to the prosecutor; then I went along with Taylor to the lodgings of these people in Dyot-street, I went to Mary Quinlan's room, and I told her I was an officer, and I had come to search her place, and I asked her if she had any things? she said yes, which things she gave me.

Q. What are the particulars of the things she gave you? - A check apron and waistcoat; as we were going along she said there is one thing I have forgot, and that is a shift; and we went back and got the shift; she told me that Elizabeth Harrison and another had come down to her to lodge, and she had took them for lodging.

Q. Did she make any difficulty at all in discovering to you what articles she were in possession of, and the method in which she came by them? - None in the least.

Prosecutrix. The waistcoat is my property, and I believe the others.

Q. Were these things in the parlour?

- Yes, they are out of the basket where the rest of the linen was.

Prisoner Elizabeth Harrison . Please you my lord, I was very ill, and I went up this thoroughfare, a yard by a court, and I saw that something lay by me white, and I took it up and put it in my apron, and took it home, Ann Rochford was there with her child, and I told her I had found them things, and I put them on the bed, and she asked me to shew them her; when my landlady came in, I asked her to take them for my night's lodging, at first she refused, but I told her I had found some more things, and I would pay her in the morning.

Q. I understand that you found them things; did you find them in the parlour of Mr. Hordes public house? - I found them up a thoroughfare, there is no house in it.

Prisoner Mary Quinlan . I refused taking them things at first, I only took them till the next morning.

The prisoner Quinlan called seven witnesses who gave her a good character.

Elizabeth Harrison , GUILTY,

Of stealing, but not burglariously .

Imprisoned six months in the House of Correction and fined 1s.

Mary Quinlan, Not GUILTY .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-23

23.' WILLIAM FIELD was indicted for feloniously breaking and entering the dwelling house of Edward Parish , between the hours of eight and twelve in the forenoon, on the 12th of November , one John Clark , and Ann his wife, then and there being, and stealing a black silk cloak, value 10s. a black silk petticoat, value 5s. a muslin apron, value 1s. the goods of Mary Riordan , spinster .

MARY RIORDAN sworn.

I live in Wardour-street, Soho .

Q. In whose house do you live in? - Edmund or Edward Parish's.

Q. Do you know in what parish it happens to be in? - In St. James's, I believe.

Q. What have you to say respecting this charge against the prisoner? - Catharine Donne and me, went to work at seven o'clock in the morning, she lived in the same room with me.

Q. What are you? - I work at needle work.

Q. On what day? - The 10th of November; I returned to dinner at one o'clock, we went out together, and she locked the door; we went to work with Mr. Towers, not far from my lodgings, very near, we returned at one o'clock.

Q. How many pair of stairs did you live up? - One pair of stairs backwards; the street door is always open, there is a shop below that we go along a passage to go to my room.

Q. Is that street door left open? - Yes, from the morning till eleven o'clock at night.

Q. Then that passage door goes up to the stairs up to your room? - Yes, it does.

Q. When you returned of course the lower door was opened? - It is always open every day.

Q. How did you find your door of the room? - Catharine Donne was the first up to the room, the room was on the latch, Catharine Donne says -

Q. Did you go in with her? - I stopped in the shop to receive a letter from the country; when I went up I missed my clothes directly as I went in the room, I missed a mode cloak, five gowns, five petticoats, four neck handkerchiefs, one pocket handkerchief, a shawl, and a white

cloth apron, a pair of stockings and a shift.

Q. Had you seen them the morning before? - Yes, I had them all the same morning, when I went out I am sure I had them, I do not know who stole them.

Mr. Knapp. I will just ask you one or two questions; You stated to my lord just now that it was Edmond or Edward? - I am not certain.

Q. You say there is one street door to this house? - Yes.

Q. Does Mr. Parish live in the house? - Yes, his wife keeps the shop.

Q. There is one common door that leads to all your apartments., so that any body has complete liberty to go in and out? - The street door is open all day.

Q. Was your own door sastened at all? - It was double locked.

CATHARINE DONNE sworn.

Q. Where do you live? - No. 110, Wardour-street.

Q. Do you remember going out of you lodging on this 10th of November? - Yes, perfectly well; I went out at the hour of seven o'clock in the morning with Riordan and returned at one.

Q. When you went out did you do any thing with your door? - I locked it, I was the person that locked it myself.

Q. When you returned how did you find it? - I found it unlocked.

Q. Was the lock forced? - No, it did not appear to be forced.

Q. Is it a spring lock? - Yes, and and to secure it we always double lock it.

Q. You were in? - Yes.

Q. Did you miss any thing? - Yes, I missed my gown, that I generally hung up in the room; I went in and found the gown out of the room the first thing.

Q. What did you miss else? - Two gowns that hung in the room, and two petticoats, one hung up, and the other laid across the bed, we found them in Mrs. White's shop, I cannot tell the particular day of the month; I went about a fortnight after to Mrs. White's.

Q. What is your landlord's name? - Edward Parish.

Mr. Knapp to Riordan. You say your name is Riordan? - Yes.

Q. How do you spell your name? - Riordan.

MARY WHITE sworn.

I bought the property of the prisoner at the bar, the day after Lord Mayor's show.

Q. What property? - The young woman's clothes, the property is here, the young woman has the property.( Mary Riordan produces the property.)

Mrs. White. That is the property I bought of the prisoner.

Q. What is it? - There is a skirt, this is a part of it, a skirt, and a cloak, a stuff petticoat and a gown.

Mary Riordan . The cloak is mine, I can swear to it, it is my own work.

Mr. Knapp to Mrs. White. You say you bought the things of the prisoner at the bar, how do you mean the prisoner at the bar? Did not you buy them of the other man? - No, I bought them of the prisoner at the bar, and gave three guineas for them.

Q. Are you a married woman? - No, I am a widow.

Q. Have you any children? - Yes, two fine children, I have a daughter married to Mr. Brookes, stationer, in Coventry-street, and my son is at home in his business.

Q. Whom did you pay the money to? - To Mr. Field, the prisoner at the bar.

Q. How much did you pay him? - Three guineas for the things, I paid three guineas for this little property it is too much for it.

GRAY sworn.

The prisoner at the bar sent a man the Monday after Lord Mayor's day. On Monday this acquaintance of the prisoner at the bar came, and he told my mistress the prisoner sent him.

Q. How do you know the prisoner at the bar sent this man? - The man said that the prisoner at the bar sent him.

Q. You live with Mrs. White? - I do, and the prisoner at the bar brought the property the next day, and received three guineas for them of my mistress.

Q. This was the 11th of November you are talking of? - Yes.

Q. The day after the robbery was committed? - Yes.

FRANCIS MURRY sworn.

Q. Did you apprehend the prisoner? - No, I did not.

Q. You are one of the officers belonging to the police office? - Yes, at Mary-le-bone-street, I am an extraodinary officer.

Q. You heard that this robbery was committed on the 10th of November? - Yes, I heard so.

Q. How long was it afterwards that the prisoner was charged with this at the office? - The 26th of November.

Q. Did not he come and surrender himself to the office to answer this charge? - I heard afterwards that he came and surrendered himself to the office.

Prisoner. I know nothing about it. I was up at six o'clock and tarried for two hours till the magistrates sat, and I staid in company with that man, and officer, I went over with, and I never was in custody at all, for I know nothing at all of Mrs. White, Mrs. White is an infamous character, her husband was transported for fourteen years, and her son for seven years.

Mr. Knapp to Mrs. White. I examined you just now, and now I am desired by the prisoner again. You say your husband is dead? - He has been dead seven years.

Q. Has he not been transported from this country?

Court. I put that to you, whether that is a proper question to ask the witness.

The prisoner called four witnesses who gave him a good character.

GUILTY, Of stealing the goods but not breaking and entering .

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-24

24. ANSELMO ROBINSON GILCHRIST was indicted for that he, on the 31st of August , feloniously did falsely make, forge, and counterfeit, and caused to be falsely made, forged, and counterfeited, and did willingly act, and assist in falsely making, forging and counterfeiting a certain paper for payment of money, dated the 9th of August, 1794, with the name of Thomas Exton . thereunto subscribed, directed to Lord George Kinnard , William Moreland , and Thomas Hammersley , banker s, and partners

, by the name and description of Messrs. Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley, for the payment of the sum of five pounds, to Mr. Pieres or bearer ; the tenor of which is as follows,

Messrs Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley, please to pay to Mr. Pieres, or bearer, the sum of five pounds, for your humble servant Thomas Exton .

With intention to defraud Lord George Kinnard , William Morland , and Thomas Hammersley .

In a second COUNT, for uttering the same, knowing it to be forged with the same intention.

A third and fourth COUNTS, for feloniously forging and uttering the same order, with intention to defraud Charles Lewis .

In a fifth and sixth COUNTS, for feloniously forging and uttering the same order, with intention to defraud Thomas Exton .

The indictment opened by Mr. Knapp, and the case by Mr. Const.

SAMUEL BURTON sworn.

Q. I believe you are servant to Mr. Charles Lewis, breeches maker , Charing Cross? - Yes.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.

Q. Had you occasion, on Sunday the 31st of August, to see the prisoner at the bar, and on what occasion? - Yes, I took a pair of doe skin breeches to him, on Sunday the 31st of August.

Q. What time was it? - About ten o'clock in the morning, which he tried on.

Q. In the first place, where did you find Mr. Gillchrist? - No, 10, Wine office-court, Fleet-street .

Q. Did he try them on? - Yes.

Q. What past then? - As soon as he tried them on he presented this five pounds draft.

Q. Had you asked him any thing previous to that? - I did not ask him for it, he gave it me without it, he gave it to me

Q. What did he give you? - The five pounds draft; for the breeches were two pounds two shillings. I took this draft of him, which I told him I did not very well like, but, however, I took it.

Q. Did he say any thing on your telling him so? - He said he did not know how I could dislike it, for it was good enough; he said, if it was not good he had two more that he should be a great loser by, one was a fifteen pounds, and another a twenty-five pounds; he told me to take it to my master, and if he did not like it, I was to take it back.

Q. Had you given him any change for that note? - No, he was to call the next day.

Q. Did you take the note home to your master? - Yes.

Q. When you got to your master's what did you do with it? - I gave it to him, and he told me he did not very well like it.

Q. Did he keep the note? - No, he sent me back with it immediately to the prisoner; I went back and took the draft with me, but when I was got back the gentleman was gone out, I went back again to my master, and delivered the note to him again.

Q. How long did your master keep it? - He gave it me the next day morning; this was on Sunday morning, and he gave it me on Monday.

Q. Do you remember sufficient to know that the draft you received on Monday morning, was the same you had given to your master on Sunday? - Yes, very well.

Q. You say your master gave it you again? - Yes, and I took it to Messrs. Hammersleys, Pall Mall, and there I saw Mr. Heslop, and he paid me the money, and I left the note there.

Q. What did he pay you? - Five pounds.

Q. That was the same note you had from the beginning? - Yes.

Q. How do you know it to be the same note? - By the hand writing, and the same indicting, and by the name that was signed to it.

Q. Do you recollect what the name signed to it was? - Yes; Thomas Exton.

Mr. Shepherd. Can you read writing? - I can read it.

Q. Can you read it yourself? - Yes, I can read it.

Q. You did not see Mr. Gilchrist after you took the note? - Not that day.

Q. You did not see him when you went back to him from your master's? - No.

Q. If I understand you right, you received a paper from Mr. Gilchrist, and you gave it to your master, and you received a paper from your master on Monday morning? - Yes.

CHARLES LEWIS sworn.

I am a leather breeches-maker, at Charing Cross.

Q. Do you remember sending any breeches home to Mr. Gilchrist on the 31st of August last? - Yes, I do.

Q. Who did you send them particularly by? - By Samuel Burton.

Q. On his return did he give you any thing? - He brought a note, a five pounds note.

Q. Did he give you that note? - He did; he told me that the gentleman could not pay him, nor he could not get the breeches back from him, that he gave him that note, and that he might receive the money on Monday morning. When he first brought it I told him to take it back, and he took it back, he told me so.

Q. When did he return to you? - In about an hour.

Q. Did he bring any thing with him when he returned? - He brought the same note back and delivered it to me.

Q. What did you do with it from that time? - I kept it till Monday morning in my own possession; on Monday morning I gave it to Burton to see if he could get the money for it, and he returned with the money.

Mr. Gurney. Mr. Gilchrist called on you again, I believe? - On Tuesday or Wednesday evening afterwards, at my house.

Q. He called for the balance of this note? - Yes, he did.

Q. Did you pay him the balance?

FRANCIS HESLOP sworn.

Q. You are a clerk to Messrs. Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley. Be so good as to tell us who are the partners of that house? - George Lord Kinnard, William Moreland , and Thomas Hammersley.

Q. These are the only three partners at present? - Yes.

Q. Formerly, I believe, Mr. Ransom was in the house? - He was.

Q. What was his name? - Griffin Ransom .

Q. He is now retired from business, and Lord Kinnard supplies his place? - Mr. Ransom is dead seven or eight years.

Q. What is the firm of the house? - Ransom, Moreland, and Hammersley.

Q. Have you a check? - Yes, we have.

Q. Do you give your checks in that way? - We do.

Q. I do not know whether you can recollect having paid a draft of the name

of Thomas Exton on the 1st of September? - There was one paid of the first of September of five pounds.

Q. Perhaps you have the book with you? - I have.

Mr. Shepherd. Is that in your hand writing? - Yes, it is.

Court. What do you call the book? - A waste book.

Mr. Const. Is that the book in which you enter them as soon as you pay them? - Yes, immediately.

Mr. Shepherd. Then that book is not the book in which you minute them down immediately? - We do it as soon as we can; we put the checks in a drawer.

Q. Is it not possible another clerks checks might get in that book in your hand writing? - Very possibly it may; but at that time there were no other person attending the counter but myself.

Mr. Const. You have the draft? - I have.(Produces it.)

Q. To Burton. Is that the draft that you received from Mr. Gilchrist, and gave to your master? - I believe it is the very same.

Q. To Lewis. Is that the draft you received from Burton and returned to him on Monday morning? - I believe it is the very same.

Q. To Burton. Is that the one that you carried and received the money for of Mr. Heslop? - I faithfully believe it is the same.

Mr. Shepherd. I understood you before to say you knew this to be the same, but it appears by the draft that there is no mark at all on the draft? - No, there is not.

Q. That you received a draft from Mr. Gilchrist is very true, but I want to know why you recollect that that very paper is the paper you received from Mr. Gilchrist? - From the hand writing.

Q. How many weeks elapsed before you saw it again? - I saw it at Bow-street three weeks or a month afterwards.

Q. Did you ever take other drafts for your master in the course of business? - No, never took one before.

Q. Do you mean to say only carrying that draft from a customer to your master, that you made such observations as to be able to swear that is the same? - I swear to the best of my knowledge, I think so by the hand writing, and by the date of it.

Q. How long had you it in your possession? - I had it Sunday morning above an hour, and Monday morning nearly the same.

Q. Did you look at it more than once? - Yes, I looked at it several times, because I did not think it was good; the reason I objected to Mr. Gilchrist was, because I did not understand these things, and it was not on stamped paper.

Mr. Const to Heslop. I want to know whether you have discharged Mr. Exton? - Yes.

Mr. Shepherd. Now on the subject of this book, do I understand you right, that that waste book is made as soon after the business is done as possible? Does it happen that frequently one clerk pays the money, and another makes; the entry? - It has happened prior to this business, but not since.

Q. Would you venture to swear that every thing in your hand writing is the transaction of yourself? - No, I cannot say that to the whole book; at the time of this transaction we had altered our mode.

Q. You have told us that Lord Kinnard, Mr. Moreland and Mr. Hammersley are partners in this house? Is Mr. Ramson alive or dead? - He is dead.

Q. Have no part of Mr. Ransom's family any interest of the profit and loss

in that banking house? - Lord Kinnard he is his son-in-law.

Q. Besides my Lord Kinnard? - I believe not, I do not know that any body else has.

Q. You know my Lord Kinnard of course? - Yes.

Q. What rank is he? - He is a peer of Scotland.

Q. Is he Earl, Viscount or Baron? - A Baron, I understand him so in the Court Kalender.(The release from the house to Mr. Exton shewn to Mr. Heslop.)

Q. Is that the gentlemens hand writing? - It is.

Mr. Shepherd. How does Mr. Hammersley spell his name? - Hammersley.

Q. I cannot see there before they? - It is his usual way of writing.

THOMAS EXTON sworn.

Q. Do you keep cash at Messrs. Ransom's, Moreland, and Hammersley? - I did.

Q. Tell us whether that is your hand writing? - It is not.(The draft read by the clerk of the Court.)

"Messrs. Moreland and Hammersley, please to pay to Mr. Pieres, the sum of 5l. for your humble servant, Thomas Exton . August 9, 1794.

Mr. Shepherd Heslop. I believe after this transaction Mr. Moreland sent for Mr. Gilchrist? - He did.

Q. Did not Mr. Gilchrist come voluntary to Mr. Moreland? - He did.

Q. This was after this five pound bill came to your house? - Yes, it was.

Q. Can you tell about how many days after the bill was paid? - Three or four day afterwards.

Prisoner. I am an officer in the navy , it was requested I should frequently be at Portsmouth, and at Portsmouth I got acquainted with a young man of the name of Macdonald, which after a few days acquaintance we played together at billiards, and he being unsuccessful, he wished me to lend him a note of fifty pounds, which I did; he was unsuccessful a second time, and I lent him the money; he was unsuccessful a third time, and he asked for fifty pounds more; I then thought it was necessary there should be some security; I told him I was going to leave Portsmouth, for Northampton; in about a week or a fortnight after I came to London, and I met Macdonald in London, I told him I wished he would pay me some of the money; I went shortly after that to Northampton, and I wrote to him from thence, and he sent me three checks, signed Thomas Exton ; I returned to town in a very short time, and the check that I gave to Mr. Lewis, was the first that was offered for payment; when I found that note was paid I did not object taking some more of them; he then gave me three more notes, I gave the one to Mr. Lewis for the payment of the goods I had from him, and he was very well satisfied; the circumstance of my going to Moreland's to enquire about them, if I knew they were forged was not like a guilty mind; when I conceived my life at stake I would naturally fly from justice for my own security. After I had been to the banker's about them, I returned to Mr. Macdonald to the coffee house, and mentioned the circumstance to him, of their having been refused; he expressed himself in a great passion, and wondered that they should have been refused; he set off from me to go to Mr. Hammersley's immediately; in about the course of half an hour he returned, and he told me that he had spoke to Mr. Hammersley, and that both him and Mr. Hammersley were decidedly of opinion that the notes were forged; he then took a note out of his pocket, from which he shewed me a letter that he had received from Mr. Exton

that morning, which informed him that he, Mr. Exton, was at Bristol; he then took two checks from the letter and shewed me, and I was very well convinced they were not the same signature as those of the former, and as he had always behaved like a gentleman to me, I conceived the suspicions I had of him were ill grounded; he told me he was going to Bristol, and when he saw Mr. Exton he would remonstrate with him. Having occasion afterwards to pay Mr. Lewis some more, I gave him the ten pounds note to change, I supposed by his paying the former one he would not refuse the other; I owed him six pounds six shillings, and he gave me the balance of three or four shillings; and on the Saturday following in the morning I was at home at my own apartments, and Miller came and took me up.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-25

25. JOHN MINCHER was indicted for that he, on the 23d of May, in the twenty-third year of his present majesty's, reign did take to wife one Isabella Brighton , spinster; after on on the 4th of August, in the twenty-eight year of his present majesty's reign , in the parish of St. Botolph without, Aldgate , did marry one Ann Udney , widow , his former wife being alive .(The case opened by Mr. Knapp.)

Prisoner. I do not wish to put the court or prosecutrix to any trouble at all. I plead guilty. I would not wish to hurt the feeling of the woman.

GUILTY . (Aged 32.)

Fined one shilling.

Reference Number: t17941208-26

26. SUSANNA COTTON was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 1st of November , a woman's cotton gown, value 1s. 6d. the goods of David Gordon .

DAVID GORDON sworn.

I am a pawnbroker ; I live in St. Martin's-lane, near Charing Cross . On Saturday, the 1st of November, between five and six in the evening, the prisoner came into my shop to pledge a handkerchief for six-pence; there were two or three people in the shop at the same time, at the front of the counter, and she stood behind; I had the handkerchief in my hand, and she said she would call again; she went away; when the other people were gone away, I dare say it was not five minutes before I missed a gown that was hanging upon a part of the shop,

upon some pins. I directly suspected her and sent about to the pawnbrokers, and the shop that I found the gown pledged at was Mr. Swaine's, in Panton-street.

EDWARD SWAINE sworn.

Q. Look at the prisoner; did you ever see her before? - On the 1st of November, about seven o'clock in the morning, the prisoner at the bar pledged with me a gown for seven shillings. I have got it.

Gordon. I have got a petticoat of it, and there is a piece of the same, I am certain it is the same; I had it by me a long time; it is made very old fashioned.

Prisoner. I never was in Mr. Gordon's shop in my life, nor know nothing of the jacket.

Court to Swaine. Are you sure the prisoner is the person that pledged the gown? - Yes, the gown was pledged in the name of Elizabeth Yates .

Court to Gordon. Did you ever see the prisoner before? - Yes. From a former attempt she made on me, I suspected her then.

GUILTY . (Aged 29.)

Imprisoned six months in the House of Correction and fined 1s.

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-27

27. ELIZABETH COX was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 27th of October , fifteen yards of silk ribbon, value 15s. the goods of Thomas Leech .

THOMAS LEECH sworn.

I live in Grocer's-alley, Wellclose-square, in the parish of Whitechapel ; I am a haberdasher . On the 27th of October, about half past nine in the morning, the prisoner at the bar, in company with another woman, came into my shop, to look at some ribbon, they said, they wished to look at some ribbon; in consequence of that I took out the drawer which I generally do to those kind of people, and the other woman said, she did not like blue ribbon at all, and asked me if I would shew her some white ones? in consequence of that I took out the white drawer and placed it half over the blue coloured drawer, and the prisoner at the bar put over her hand into the drawer and took the piece of ribbon out I had been shewing to her, and held it in her hand, and put it from place to place about her. The woman that was with her said she would have two yards of satin ribbon; and while I was cutting the two yards off, the prisoner put the ribbon she had taken out of the drawer into her pocket.

Q. Did you observe all this? - I did, the whole entirely, very plainly.

Q. Did you hold any conversation with her? - I did nothing but make the observation. I cut off the ribbon, and the prisoner at the bar paid me for the ribbon that I cut off for the other woman, fourteen-pence was the price of it; when I had put the money in the till I went round the counter, before they got to the door, I made haste and stopped her at the door.

Q. Had you any person or journeyman in the shop? - I was just done breakfast, and the people who were coming in the shop, were not come. When I stopped her at the door, I told her she had got a piece of ribbon of mine, and she denied it. The other woman said, but if you have got any of the gentleman's, give it him; she said she had not; I told her I saw her proceeding, and it was no need to deny it, and if she did not own it I must send for an officer. In consequence of

that I told my boy to go for an officer; while the boy was gone for an officer the other woman reasoned with her to take it out of her pocket; and my servant, when he came in the shop, he laid hold of her and took it out of her pocket. This is the piece of ribbon that was taken out; it has been in no other hands but my own; I marked it immediately when he took it out of her pocket.

Q. Can you swear that was your property? - Very safely. It is a very clear case.

Prisoner. He would not stop the other woman that bought the white ribbon. Ask the prosecutor if I did not bid him stop the other woman in the shop?

Prosecutor. She did not ask me any such thing; I conceived the other woman knew nothing of the matter.

JOHN WALTER sworn.

I saw the ribbon taken out of the prisoner's pocket.

Prosecutor. I cannot say whether the servant or the other woman took it out of her pocket, but I saw it come out of her pocket.

Q. To Walter. Did you see that ribbon come out of her pocket? - Yes.

Prisoner. That man was not in the shop at all.

Prosecutor. He was not in the shop when the woman took it, but he came out of the kitchen into the shop at the time it was took out of her pocket.

Prisoner. I was in that man's shop before, I have bought stockings and things these five years of him; stockings, handkerchiefs, and ribbons of one thing and another; I have served him with fish. This woman and I had a glass of liquor or two more than did me good, and she asked me to buy her a ribbon, and I went into this shop to buy this woman a ribbon, and this ribbon was on the ground, and he said I took it; and I have been used very ill since I have been in the watch-house, I lost my apron, petticoat, and gown. The constable told me if I would pay for the ribbon, the prosecutor would not prosecute me.

GUILTY . (Aged 36.)

Transported for seven Years .

Tried by the First Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-28

28. JOHN LAMB , ANN LAMB , and ANN CLARKE were indicted for feloniously making an assault on the King's highway, on Richard Hill , on the 21st of November , putting him in fear, and taking from his person and against his will, a silver watch, value 7l. a base metal seal, value 2s. a base metal watch key, value 6d. a a silk string, value 1d. the goods of the said Richard Hill .

The case opened by Mr. Trebeck.

RICHARD HILL sworn.

I live in Clement's inn, I am clerk to Mr. Clark of Clement's-inn . On Friday the 21st of November, I was coming along the Strand , near to the corner of Essex street, I perceived a crowd of people as I generally do perceive, near the place when I go down the street.

Q. Was you going from Temple Bar, or towards Temple Bar? - Towards Temple Bar. I had my little brother in my hand, I observed a parcel of people standing at the corner of Essex-street, just before I come close to the corner of

Essex-street, because I expected what might follow; I was about to cross the way; as I was about to cross, I was instantly seized by Ann Lamb , the prisoner at the bar. I should have observed to your lordship that three people came up, Ann Lamb , Ann Clarke , and a man; I will not attempt to swear it is John Lamb ; they instantly catched me round about under my arms, and having got my arms fixed by the assistance of Ann Clarke , then Ann Lamb having got my arms up, being in the front of me, the two women first of all surrounded me and secured me; first they pinioned my arms fast round, and having secured me in that kind of way, I felt another arm come round me which I found was the arm of a man, it was a man's but I cannot swear whose it was. I did not see it, I was so fixed by the two women.

Q. Why do you believe that to be a man's arm? - Because there were no others but these three at that time near me. They having secured me in this kind of way, I observed Ann Lamb , one of her arms drop, and that proceeded immediately to my fob; I saw her when they had secured me, her arm proceeded to my fob, and I perceived her draw from my fob my silver watch; after they had taken the watch and chain and seals I got a little release.

Q. Your watch went, did it? - It did; my fob is very deep, and it went very hard, it went away very gradually, and I had an opportunity of seeing who did it. After they had my watch I began to be a little released, not much, and then I felt a hand go down to my pocket where I had six guineas.

Q. Before they came to your pocket did you call out for assistance? - I did immediately on that, and struggling and kicking to get my arms loose, at length I got loose and I instantly seized Ann Lamb , and I believe I either struck or shoved her against the wall; I pinioned her so that she could not get from me, on this the watchman arrived, I told him I had been robbed.

Q. Before the watchman, arrived, do you recollect any thing else taking place? - Before the watchman came, in struggling with the two women, a man of the outside, I heard him make an expression when I was holding the two women with my arms.

Q. Was it the same man? - It was; I believe it to be about the size of the prisoner. On having the two women in custody before the arrival of the watchman, I heard him say, d-mn the b-y b-gg-r, cut his bloody arms off, why don't he let the women go; then I felt a stab on this arm, which I had extended out to secure Ann Clarke , on my right arm, through a very thick coat which I had on, it only just touched the skin, it did not affect me much, and then the watchman arrived.

Q. On receiving this stab, the man, whoever he might be, did he run away? - Not till the watchman came up.

Q. Did he run away when the watchman came up? - A little while afterwards he did; I delivered Ann Clark to the watchman.

Q. Did you deliver both the women? - No, I conducted one to the watch-house and the watchman the other.

Q. Before you left the place, where this had taken place, did the man, whoever he was, run away? - I perceived him about two or three yards further, following the women, and giving the language I described; then I lost sight of the man, he was gone.

Q. Was your brother in company with you while you was pinioned? - He went for the watchman.

Q. He went while the women held your arms? - Yes, but he did not go till I had lost my watch; we proceeded to the

watch house, and delivered the two women into charge there.

Q. When you said we, who do you mean by we? - The watchman and myself, and my brother was with me.

Q. How long do you think it was from the time that you was pinioned up, to the time that your brother went and called the watchman? - My brother did not go to call the watch until after the watch was out of my sob, and the watch was out of my sob in about three minutes after the first transaction, then I began to cry out watch, and he run away for the watchman.

Q. When you had conducted these two women to the watch-house, what did you do? - We then gave a description of the man, myself and my brother.

Q. What was done in consequence of that description? - How was the man dressed? - I believe the man at that time to he dressed in a drab kind of a coat.

Q. What height was he? - He answered to the height of the prisoner.

Q. What coloured hair? - I do not pretend to say to his hair or face.

Q. Did you go to take him? - I did not, the watchman did.

Q. When did you see the prisoner at the bar after that? - The very next day, the two women were delivered into custody, and they were all three brought up together.

Q. Then you did not see the man till the next day at Bow-street? - Not till the next day, I think it was near upon twelve o'clock when I saw him come into Bow-street, and my little brother pointed him out directly.

Q. Who were with you? - There was the patrol of the night, the watchman and my little brother.

Q. Where was you and your brother at Bow street when you first saw him, were you in the inner office, or were you near the bar? - We were just in the front place, exactly, I only know that the little boy the moment he saw Lamb, he identified him, and said, you are the man that either robbed my brother, or was concerned in robbing him, and he went on, and said, but you had a different coat on, but I know you now.

Q. Were there several people in this anti-room? - There were several.

Q. Was the prisoner, John Lamb , pointed out to your brother? - No, he was not.

Q. Did he six on him without any body saying any thing to him? - He did; when Lamb was coming into the front part of the office, I was in the office before the runners brought Lamb up; when I was in the office I perceived a parcel of people coming to Bow-street, to the office door, and the man, the prisoner, came up right to my face, and said, sir, do you know me.

Q. Do you know if any person had pointed to you, before that man came up to you, and spoke to you, as to that man? - No, he appeared to me instantly saying do you know me? - I said no; he turned himself about with an air, and said, then I may take myself about my business; then the little boy said, that is the man that robbed you last night, and then the little boy proceeded to state before the watchman, before me and the patrol, what I have stated to you before.

Q. Have you ever got your property again? - No.

Mr. Knapp. This was eleven o'clock at night? - It was.

Q. There were a great number of persons in the street? - There were some.

Q. How many do you think there were in the street; you say there were a great number at the corner of Essex-street? What number do you think there were at the corner of Essex-street? - Altogether there might be ten or twelve, among whom I believe there were only one man.

Q. I take it for granted the whole of the prisoners at the bar, or either of them you have never seen before? - Never in my life.

Q. Was it moon light; I believe not, I am pretty sure it was not.

Q. Was it a fair night, or a rainy night? - I believe it was wet, and I believe it was misty.

Q. The first person that you described as coming up to you, was the prisoner, Ann Lamb ? - Ann Lamb was the person that came nearest to me, and clasped me in the front, and hugged me.

Q. Was this before you got ot Essex-street? - There is a cutler's at the corner, and I was got half way by their shutters, just opposite that passage that leads through to go to St. Clement's-inn; it was very near the lamp, I was not in the passage.

Q. The prisoners at the bar you told me just now, that you never see either of them before; did the crowd encrease or disperse on your being pinioned as you have described? - It increased, but considering there were very few people about.

Q. Perhaps there were forty or fifty people about you? - I do not think there were twenty about me.

Q. How near is a watchman's stand to this place where the robbery was said to be committed? - I believe the nearest stand was in St. Clement's Church-yard, which was a good bit off me.

Q. I believe the watch-house is pretty nearly opposite to the Church in the passage? - I do not know; if there was a watch-house there nobody proceeded to my assistance from that watch-house.

Q. How old is your brother? - He is now about eleven or twelve years old.

Q. Where had you been this evening, Mr. Hill? - I had been in Berry-street.

Q. Only you and your brother together? - I was there alone by myself, all the afternoon, my brother was sent to fetch me home by my wife.

Q. Are you sure that you had a watch out with you that afternoon? - I particularly remember I had, it was a silver hunting watch; I had the seal in my hand not many minutes before I was stopped.

Q. What led you to do that? - I cannot say what led me to do it. I mean positively to swear that I put my hand to my seal two minutes before I was stopped.

Q. Now, the watch had never been found at all? - It has not.

Q. You say you are certain as to the person of Ann Lamb ? - I am, and as to the person of Ann Clarke .

Q. You have stated that as to the person of the man, that there was only one man, you will not swear to the prisoner being that man. I understand you to say you would not swear to what his hair was, nor his face, but his size you think you could swear to? - Just so.

Q. Then I am to understand you do not swear to him only by his size? - I do not say the particular size of him, it was about his size.

Q. When you came to Bow-street the next day, your brother was with you of course? - He was.

Q. The prisoners were brought into custody from the Brown Bear? - I do not know where they were brought from.

Q. Do not you know, upon your oath, that they came from the Brown Bear? - I do not.

Q. You was not at the door when they were brought in? - I was not.

Q. Was the prisoner, the man, in irons or was he not? - The first time he was not.

Q. Was the officer of Bow-street with him that brought him in? - Not at that time. When he came to the door at Bow-street he ran directly up to my nose, and said, sir, do you know me? and afterwards I perceived a many people following.

Q. I thought, just now, you told me you was in the anti-room? - So I was.

Q. Then the anti-room opened in the street? - It did.

Q. Then if you saw him coming into the door you must see where he came from? - I did not; they came slanting from the Brown Bear to the door of the office, I could not see them in the room as I stood.

Q. It was not, I believe, till after you had said, no, to him, and after he ran up to you and asked whether you knew him? that your brother said one word to him? - The moment I said, no.

Q. It is very extraordinary I cannot get an answer? - It was.

Q. Was the watchmen there at the time? - I believe they were in with him, or they came in with the two women afterwards.

Q. Did you hear that watchman say any thing about Lamb? - Not a syllable.

Q. Then you did not hear this, he pointing to Lamb, and saying, this is the man, my boy? - I mean to say that the watchman never did any such thing in my presence as that, and it could not be done without my hearing it.

Q. You know there are three forty pound rewards? - I do; but I am very willing to relinquish that all up to the poor of the parish.

Q. Have you been alway with Mr. Clarke? - Before I was with him I was with Mr. Priddle.

Mr. Trebeck. Whatever persons were about the street, were there more than two females and one male about you when the robbery was compleated? - There was not.

Q. Before that your brother pointed out that the prisoner at the bar was the man; had any body any where, or in any kind, pointed to him, to shew him? - Certainly not.

Court. Mr. Hill, just tell me exactly whereabouts it was you lost your watch; you talked just now about the razor shop, was it near that razor shop? - It was against the razor shop, the very corner of Essex-street.

Q. Where was it that you saw this crowd of people, the crowd of women of which there was but one man? - At the very corner of Essex-street.

Q. If there were a great crowd at the corner of Essex-street, and you was robbed at this house, what do you mean when you say there were nobody but these two women and one man about you? you must be very close to the crowd? - About a yard and a half, if there were any.

Q. Then do not you call people that were within a yard and a half of you, not near you? - They were near me, but not assisting.

Q. You told us just now, before, that there were not more than two females and one male near you when you was robbed, and now you tell me that there was all this crowd within a yard and a half of you? - I mean to say that they were a yard and a half from me when these people were round me. Your lordship sees that when these people were around me they were a yard and half from the other people.

Q. How long have you lived in Clement's-inn? - A year.

Q. Were did you live before that? - At Drury-lane.

GEORGE HILL sworn.

Q. How old are you? - Going of thirteen.

Q. Do you know the nature of an oath? - Yes.

Q. What will become of you, if you swear false? - I shall go to the Devil.

Mr. Trebeck. On the 21st of November last, was you coming along the Strand from Berry-street, with your bother? - Yes.

Q. Now mention all that happened to you and your brother.

Court. Where was you coming from? - I was coming from Berry-street, St. James's, I was coming along the Strand, and at the top of Essex-street, Ann Lamb catched hold of my brother under his coat, and said, my love, where are you going to? and he made her no answer; and there was Ann Clarke by the side of her; Ann Clarke and Ann Lamb fixed his hands behind him.

Q. How did they fix his hands behind him? - They caught hold of him.

Q. Were they before him? - Yes; Ann Lamb got his hands first behind, and, I believe Ann Clarke helped to hold him while she took the watch out of his pocket.

Q. How did she help to hold him? - To help hold his arms behind, while Ann Lamb took his watch out of his pocket.

Q. Did you see Ann Lamb do that? - I did.

Q. Which is Ann Lamb ? - That is Ann Lamb that stands in the middle. Then the watch was cried out for, my brother cried first, and I went and fetched the watchman from behind St. Clement's, I went to St. Clement's church and the watchman was coming, and I came back, and my brother had hold of the womens hands, he got hold of Ann Lamb 's hands and pinioned up Ann Clarke; when I came back again he had them so.

Q. Before you went for the watchman, did you perceive any body else near your brother? - Yes, I saw a man.

Q. What did you see him do? - I saw him heave up his hands to strike him, swearing very bad, and making use of very bad words, and he followed us a little way swearing.

Q. Did that man that had his hands up and used bad expressions, did you see him do any thing else? - No, I did not.

Q. Whoever that man was, do you, think you should know him again if you was to see him? - Yes, I think I should; I was almost close to him, I was standing against the post, and he was on the little narrow pavement, just outside of the kennel, between the curb and the kennel.

Q. How was his face, towards you or from you? - His face was towards me, and to my brother's back.

Q. How long do you think you had an opportunity of seeing his face that you might know him again?

Court. Which way was his face turned, towards Charing Cross or Temple Bar? - His face was turned towards the razor shop.

Q. And you looked towards the church? - Yes.

Mr. Trebeck. Then you are quite sure that the person whose face was opposite to you if you should see him again you should know him? - That is the man at the bar.

Q. What clothes had he on? - A drab coat he had on; that was all I see of him.

Q. Had he a round or cocked hat on? - A cocked hat.

Q. When was the first time you saw him, after you saw him in the Strand? - At Bow-street, the next day, Saturday.

Q. Was he dressed the next day the same as he was the night before? - No, he had a great coat with green stripes, and he had a drab coat the night before.

Q. When he came to Bow-street had he not a drab coat under the striped great coat? - I do not think he had.

Q. Where was the man, the prisoner at the bar, when you first saw him in Bow-street? - We were in the room when he came first in the room; and, I believe, he asked my brother whether he knew him? my brother said, no. I went up to my brother and I said, that is the man, but he has not got the same coat on.

Q. Did you say any thing else? - I do not recollect I said any thing else.

Q. Before you said that is the man, had any body spoken to you concerning the robbery that had taken place the night before; any body in the office? - No, nobody.

Q. Directly you saw him had you any doubt whether he was the man or not? - No.

Q. Did you go with your brother and the two female prisoners at the bar to the watch-house? - Yes.

Q. What did you go to Bow-street for? - We were ordered to go to Bow-street the next morning.

Q. Who was you ordered to go by? - A gentleman, the constable of the night.

Q. What time was you ordered to go to Bow-street? - At ten o'clock.

Q. When you all got to the watchhouse was there any description given of the man that had robbed you? - Yes.

Q. Who gave that description? - I did.

Q. Do you mean of the man or the woman? - The man.

Q. Who did you give the description to? - To the constable of the night.

Q. Did you describe him to the watchman? - Yes.

Q. Did the watchman describe him? - Yes, he said he knew him.

Q. After this description was given you was you ordered to go to Bow-street the next morning? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. You never was examined before, in any court before? - No.

Q. Do you live with your brother? - Yes.

Q. Is he a married man? - Yes.

Q. Where does he live? - In Dorset-street, Fleet-street.

Q. Do you know that if the jury believes your evidence, these persons lives will be forseited? - Yes.

Q. Did you learn this before you came into court? - No, nobody told me about it.

Q. Have you had any conversation about this business? - No.

Q. Never talked with any body on the subject not since the robbery has taken place? - No.

Q. Has it never been the subject of conversation between you and your brother? - No.

Q. Never talked of it? - No, he has got so much business to do that he had not time to talk of it.

Q. Why he used to come home to his dinner and supper? - Yes, but I do not dine with him, because when he went home I used to mind the office.

Q. But you was at home with him at different times of the day? - Yes, but he never said nothing, to tell me what to say.

Q. I was examining to that; but you have had conversations with him about it? Have you conversed with your bro

ther at all about this business since? - Very little.

Q. Do you recollect what he has said to you about this business, or if he has said any thing? - I cannot recollect.

Q. What he has said about this business, has he said it pretty often? - Not very often.

Q. How often may he have talked to you about this business? - Not more than once or twice.

Q. He did not say any thing about what sort of evidence you were to give? - No, he did not.

Q. Did he tell you where you were to give your evidence? - He told me the Old Bailey.

Q. Did he tell you that you was to be sworn; did he tell you that the consequence of your taking your oath, might convict these people? - No, he did not.

Q. Where did you learn what you told me just now, that these peoples lives depended upon your testimony? - From my brother, not this brother.

Q. You are sure that when the woman came up to your brother, she made use of this expression; my love, where are you going? - Yes.

Q. You told the jury just now that they pinioned his hands behind him, and not before him; first of all I take it for granted that you never see them before that evening in your life? - No.

Q. Was it a moon light night; or was it very dark? - No, it was not a moon light night.

Q. Was it dark or pretty light? - It was not very dark.

Q. Was it misty? - Yes, a little.

Q. Now you never see any of the faces of any of these people before in your life? - No, never.

Q. Why you must be considerably frightened? - Yes, I was very much frightened.

Q. So I should think, they did not touch you? - You run away? How soon was it before you ran away? - I staid with him a good bit first.

Q. Did you call out for the watch at at all? - I did, and so did my brother too.

Q. Now the person, whoever the man was, what coloured coat had he on at the time the robbery was committed? - A drab coat.

Q. Why he had a drab coat at Bow-street? - No, I did not see a drab coat at Bow-street, I saw him in a great coat at Bow-street.

Q. When you got to Bow-street, how long did you remain in the room at Bow-street before the prisoners were brought in the house? - Not above five minutes.

Q. Was you at the door of the house, or in the room? - I was in the room, sitting down.

Q. The man, the prisoner, was he in irons? - No, he had no irons on.

Q. Was there no other men there? - No, none in irons.

Q. But whether with or without irons? - Yes, there were.

Q. The man ran up to your brother, and said, do you know me? - Yes, that was it.

Q. And your brother said no? - Yes.

Q. It was not till after he had said no that you thought you knew the man? - No.

Q. Did any of the officers belonging to Bow-street and you, have any conversation before they were brought over? - No.

Q. Then you did not hear the watchman or constable say, that is the man, or any thing like that? - I heard the watchman say that he knew the man very well in the watch-house.

Q. All that you have spoke is perfectly the truth? - Yes.

Q. Do you know these three persons lives depend upon your testimony? - Yes.

Q. Have you ever heard that there is any reward on conviction of three prisoners? - No.

Q. Never in your life? - No.

Q. Forty pounds a piece? - Nothing of the kind.

Q. All that the man did he was looking in the shop and held up his hand? - The shop was not opened.

Q. Then there was no light in the shop at all? - No.

Mr. Trebeck. There was no light in the shop you say? - No.

Q. Was there a lamp near? - Yes, over his head.

Q. You mentioned something about another brother telling you that these peoples lives depended upon your testimony? - Yes.

Q. Is not your brother what they commonly called a methodist? - Yes, they call him so.

Q. You had some conversation with this brother on this subject, and he told you that these persons lives depended upon your testimony? Did he caution you to tell the truth? - Yes.

Q. Has this brother here advised you at any time what sort of evidence to give in this court? - No.

Q. Has he at any time told you -

Officer of the court I saw him wink.

Q. To John Ludlowthe officer. Look in that young man's face and point out the time you saw him wink at him? - He winked at him when you asked some questions two minutes ago, when you asked him if his brother was a methodist, I saw him both wink and nod.

Q. When you first got up you said that you saw this man had been winking to his brother? At any other time did you see him? - No.

Prosecutor. I positively swear that I never did wink at him.

Mr. Trebeck to George Hill . When you called on your brother who is a methodist; I ask you upon your oath, if when you had this conversation with your brother, you had any conversation otherwise with him, than as advising you to speak the truth when you come against these people? - No, no more.

JOHN GALLAGHAN sworn.

I am a watchman in St. Clement Danes .

Q. Do you recollect being called to the assistance of any person on the 21st of November last? - Yes, it was exactly at eleven o'clock that Mr. Hill's brother came over to the box to me, I was standing by the box, my box is about the middle of the church, in the front of the street, the very front of the street as you pass the Strand.

Q. How far is your box from Essex-street? - I cannot say, not far.

Q. Is it twice so far as this court? - Not quite so far as this court.

Q. Had you that night called the hour of eleven - I had just called the hour of eleven.

Q. What was the occasion of your first going to where this robbery was committed? - He came to me and said, my brother has been robbed, watchman! where? my man, says I; he told me; so I ran along with him as fast as I could, he took me down to the corner of Essex-street, where these two women were, he had them both in hold, as soon as I came up this man withdrew.

Q. Did you see the man, the prisoner there? - Yes, I did, he was standing at the front, as soon as I went forward he withdrew, and got into the street.

Q. Did he see you? - They could not but see me.

Q. Where did he withdraw to? - Unto a little distance from them, and Mr. Hill gave me one of the women in charge, Ann Clarke , while he took care of the other himself, at that time the prisoner

was swearing very heavy to him, cursing and d-mning his eyes and limbs.

Q. You heard him swear, did you? - Yes, I did, he said d-mn his eyes and limbs if he did not knock the b-gg-r down if he did not let her hands go. Mr. Hill and I conducted the two women to the watch-house, and the man he went away.

Q. Are you sure that the man you spoke to, is the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, that is the man.

Q. Had you known him long? - No, never see him before, only from the severe language he used at that time; if I was to see him I could swear to him, and he followed us to the watch-house swearing.

Q. During the time he was swearing and following of you, did you look back? - Yes, to be sure I did.

Q. How near was he to you? - At my first coming up he was within a yard or two yards of me.

Q. Did you see him before you took the two women into custody? - Yes, I saw him, he was standing there, and he withdrew as I came forward. and afterwards turned round and followed us.

Q. I ask you whether you saw the man so as to know him again, before you took the women into custody? - No, not till I took the women into custody, and he followed us until we past the Crown and Anchor.

Q. Did you see his face plainly? - Yes, I saw his face so plainly that I can swear to him.

Q. Have you any doubt whether the man that was swearing with these women was the man that followed you to the Crown and Anchor? - No; this is the very man.

Q. What did you do when you went to the watch-house? - The constable of the night, who is here, examined the two women, and so the patrol was called, and they were searched.

Q. Did you give any description of the man, which you now say is the prisoner at the bar, to the constable of the night? - I did, and to the patrol both.

Court. How was he dressed at that time? - I thought he had something of a whitish coat on.

Mr. Trebeck. What did you do afterwards? - We took the women down to the Strand-lane and locked the women up, the prisoner had said something to the patrol about sending her husband to her.

Q. Which prisoner? - Mrs. Lamb. She desired that the patrol would go and let her husband know that she would be very glad to see him; the patrol went up and put up the keys of the lock-up-house where they were locked up, and he came down to me to the box where I was. The patrol and the constable of the night after we had left the two women locked up, and he thought that if he could make out this Mr. Lamb he might have the watch and property.

Q. Did you apprehend the prisoner Lamb? - No, it was the patrol, and, I believe, the constable of the night.

Q. After the time you say you saw him near the Crown and Anchor, where he left you; where was the next place you saw him? - In the watch house, past five o'clock next morning, Saturday morning after the 22d.

Q. Did you know him again? - Yes, perfectly well.

Q. Did you know him to be the man that followed you? - Yes.

Q. And that used these very expressions? - I could certainly swear to him, for he used these very expressions in the watch-house.

Q. Did you go to Bow-street? - Yes, I went along with the rest, the constable was there and the patrol was there.

Q. When you got to Bow-street did George Hill point him out? - I cannot say, for they two were in first.

Q. But the person that you took to Bow-street was the person you saw in the watch-house at five o'clock in the morning, and whom you had seen the evening before? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. This watch-box is adjoining to the church? - Yes, St. Clement's church.

Q. Which is, we know, opposite the end of Essex-street? - No, it is opposite the end of Milford-street.

Q. Was you on your beat or in the box when the boy came to you? - In the box.

Q. You said the man withdrew when you came up? - He did, but he did not go quite away till we came to the Crown and Anchor.

Q. Mrs. Lamb said that she wished the patrol to go to her husband, to let him know where she was? - Yes, after she was confined.

Q. And gave directions where to find him? - Yes, at the Swan, in Butcher-row, Temple Bar, as she thought.

Mr. Trebeck. Do you happen to know whether that was the place where he was found? - No, he was found at his lodgings.

Q. You was not there at the first of this business when Mr. Hill and his brother came? - No, I was not at the first of it.

GEORGE SULLY sworn.

I am a patrol of St. Mary-le-Strand.

Q. Do you recollect any thing particularly happening on Saturday, the 21st of November last? - I was called upon to search the two women in the watch-house of St. Mary-le-Strand.

Q. Did you search them? - I searched them both, and found nothing about them at all.

Q. Did you apprehend the prisoner, John Lamb ? - Yes, I apprehended him between four and five o'clock in the morning, at his lodgings, in Eagle-court, at the top of Angel-court.

Q. Do you know him? - I have seen him before several times.

Q. Did you take him to Bow-street? - I took him and locked him up in the watch-house.

Q. Do you know either of the women? - I know one; I cannot say that I know the little one, Ann Clarke , but I know the other.

Q. Did you go to the Swan, in Butcher-row, the same night before? - I did.

Q. How came you to go there? - I went with the two women to lock them up (after charge was given) in the watch-house, our lock up place is in the Strand-lane, I takes the two women to lock them up, and Ann Lamb desired me that I would go there to the Swan and acquaint John Lamb that she wanted to speak to him something particular.

Q. Did you go? - I locked them up, and the constable and I went down together; this was near one o'clock.

Q. Did you find him there? - No, the house was locked up.

Q. Did you go again? - No, I went to two other houses.

Q. What other houses did you go to? - One is the Magpie, in Butcher-row, and the other was the Sol's Arms, the bottom of Wych-street; I went and there I saw nothing of him; then the constable he goes to the watch-house, the watchman goes on duty, and I goes to tell Ann Lamb I could not see him.

Q. What time was it you went to the Sol's Arms? - I think near about one.

Prisoner John Lamb . I have nothing particular to say, I leave it to my counsel.

Prisoner Ann Lamb . I know nothing at all about it, I leave it to my counsel.

Prisoner Ann Clarks . I know nothing at all about it, I am entirely innocent of the matter.

DOMINICK BABE sworn.

I live at the Old Swan, Butcher-row, Temple Bar.

Q. Do you live at that house now? - I do.

Q. How long have lived at that house? - Seven years.

Q. Do you remember seeing the prisoner John Lamb at your house any time in November last? - Certainly; I see him almost every night.

Q. Do you remember hearing of the robbery that was committed by St. Clement's church? - I heard of it the next morning, he sent for me.

Q. Do you remember seeing the prisoner at the bar at your house that night? - He was there from eight o'clock till past twelve, and to my knowledge he did not go out of the house.

Q. Was you in the tap room a good part of that time? - I was in and out several times that night.

Q. How long was you out at a time? - I was not out except with a pint or a pot of beer to the neighbourhood.

Q. And then you came in again? - Yes. I never missed him out of the room, he has frequented my house for years past.

Q. Therefore I take it for granted, you are sure of his person? - O, yes.

Q. Did you attend the next morning at Bow-street? - I did, but the examination was over before I came; the prisoner sent for me to go there.

Mr. Trebeck. You attended at Bow-street after the examination? - It was over.

Q. What sort of a house is it you keep? - A respectable house.

Q. You are sure of that? - Yes.

Q. You say that you remember the prisoner was at your house the evening of the day a robbery was committed? - Yes, that was Friday night, the 21st, I believe.

Q. Be so good as to recollect when he came into your house? - I cannot say to a minute, but he was there by eight o'clock.

Q. What makes you think it was eight o'clock? - I am sure he was there.

Q. Yes, that is very possible, But what makes you recollect it was eight o'clock? - I recollect it very well, because I served him with beer; I am sure it was not nine o'clock.

Q. Where did he sit down when he first came into the house? - He sat down in the tap room; there were two of them that had three pints of beer and a paper of tobacco, who the other man was I do not know.

Q. Did he change his situation while he was in the house? - When he had had these three pints of beer he fell asleep, he put his two hands on the table and fell asleep.

Q. What time did he fall asleep? - It was past nine.

Q. How long was he asleep? - That I do not know how long he slept.

Q. I ask you from when you saw him go to sleep at nine o'clock, how long it was before you looked at him again and saw him again? - I cannot tell exactly.

Q. You recollect it was eight o'clock when he first came in, and you recollect it was nine o'clock when he fell asleep; it is very odd you cannot recollect when you saw him asleep again. Do you recollect how long he slept before you looked at him? - I cannot recollect the time that he slept.

Q. Did he sleep an hour? - I will not say that he slept an hour, or half an hour, or whether he was asleep at all, but he had his head down.

Q. How long did he keep his head down? - I am sure I cannot tell how long, I saw him there, he was there, he was there past nine o'clock asleep.

Q. I want to know whether you kept your eyes upon him the whole time? - I told you before I did not watch him the whole time.

Court. He has told you that he had his eyes on him and off him.

Mr. Trebeck. Recollect the latest hour you saw him asleep? - I cannot tell exactly the time.

Q. Recollect how long he continued in your house that evening? - I do not recollect that he went out at all till after twelve o'clock, I am sure it was a quarter after twelve.

Q. Perhaps you are sure that he did not go out till past twelve o'clock. Are you sure he did not go out before and return again? - I could not positively swear, because I was not always in his company.

Q. How far is it from your house to Essex-street? - About thirty or forty yards, I suppose.

Q. I think you say, that in the course of the evening you was several times out with pots of beer to the neighbourhood, more than forty yards from your house? - I do not know that I go so far.

Q. While you are going out with the beer to your neighbours, whether he was sleeping with his head on the table you do not know? - I cannot say while I was out.

Q. How long did you stay at a time when you was carrying beer to any customer? - I might stay five minutes, I might ten, according to where I had to go.

Q. There is time enough to go to Essex-street, and stay some time, while you was carrying out pots of beer? - I do not think he could go out without my missing him.

Q. Will you take your oath that you was no one time absent from your house, from eight in the evening till twelve o'clock, that a man could not go to Essex-street in the same time?

Court. You had better put it another way.

Court. Was you ever ten minutes out of the house together or five minutes at a time? - I might five minutes, and I might ten.

Q. How many times do you think you was out that evening? - Perhaps twenty times.

Mr. Knapp. You mean this, that between the hours of eight and twelve, except at the time when you went out to carry pots of beer and when you went in again you saw the prisoner there? - I did.

Court. Did the prisoner stay in your house till past twelve? - He did stay till a quarter past twelve, I shut it up then.

THOMAS BELGDUM sworn.

I am a cordwainer, No. 8, Crown-court.

Q. Of course you know Mr. Babe's house the last witness? - Exceeding well.

Q. You have heard of this robbery being committed? - I have.

Q. Do you remember on the night of this robbery being committed of your being at Mr. Babe's house? - I was.

Q. What time did you go there? - About half past nine o'clock.

Q. When you first came there did you at the first see Lamb there? - I did.

Q. Did you set near Lamb? - I sat opposite to him, in another box.

Q. What part of the house was it in? - In what is commonly called the taproom.

Q. How long was you in company with Lamb that night? - It may be till after eleven within a few minutes, over or under, when I went away.

Q. Did you go away first? - I did, I left him behind me.

Mr. Trebeck. You went in about half past nine you say? - Yes.

Q. Do you know him very well? - Yes, by seeing him there.

Q. He was drinking, I suppose? - Yes.

Q. By himself, I suppose, sitting by himself? - He was at first sitting drinking a pot of beer by himself.

Q. How long was it before any body came in to him and sat with him? - I cannot be positive as to that.

Q. How long do you think it was? - It might be the value of half an hour, I did not make particular remarks of that.

Q. That would make it ten o'clock you know? - Yes.

Q. At ten o'clock he was sitting with his pint or pot by himself? - It might be, I did not particularly remark that.

Q. Then during this was he smoaking his pipe? - Yes, I remember him particularly smoaking, I saw him take a paper of tobacco and his opening it, a fresh paper of tobacco, and he lighted his pipe.

Q. About half past nine? - No, I think it was rather later than that.

Q. Then you are sure he was not sitting with another person smoaking and drinking? - Not when I first went in.

Q. Now during the time that you was there he either drank or smoaked one or the other the whole time did not he? - he was, only one time he appeared rather drowsy and laid his head on the table.

Q. What time was that? - I cannot tell particularly.

Q. Was he by himself then? - That was the time he was by himself, and I was remarking it to a friend of mine at that same time, I says, Lamb seems to be very sleepy to night, and I suppose he will not speak to night; I had spoke to him, saying, Lamb, how do you do now? and he made me no answer, on that I conceived he was fast asleep.

Q. How soon did he light his pipe? - I think he light his pipe about ten o'clock.

Court. How long have you known the prisoner Lamb? - I suppose about a twelvemonth.

Q. No more than a twelvemonth? - I believe not.

Q. What is his business? - A writer, something in that line of business, a writer for gentlemen.

Q. Do you know what trade he was brought up to? - I do not.

Q. What age do you take him to be? - About forty or fifty.

DENNIS PINKING sworn.

I am a hair dresser, I live in Butcher-row.

Q. Do you use Mr. Babe's house? - I do.

Q. Do you know the prisoner Lamb? - I do.

Q. How long have you known him? - About twelve months.

Q. During that time did he use to use Mr. Babe's house? - He did.

Q. Did he use it last month? - He did.

Q. Do you remember the robbery last month? - I did the next day, the 22d.

Q. Did you go to Mr. Babe's house the night of the 21st? - I was there.

Q. Was you there first or Lamb? - I was there first.

Q. What time did Lamb come in? - Between eight and nine o'clock.

Q. Did you see Mr. Belgum there? - I did.

Q. Did you see Mr. Babe in the course of the evening? - Several times.

Q. How long did you stay there? - Till about a quarter after eleven o'clock, and I left Lamb there at that time.

Q. Are you sure that you are right in saying that you saw Lamb there during that time? - I am sure he could not quit the room without passing me, I was in the same box with Belgum, and sitting opposite to Lamb.

Q. Do you remember his having any thing to drink? - He had a pint or two of porter.

Q. Had he any tobacco? - Yes, he had.

Q. Did you attend at Bow-street the next day? - I did not.

Mr. Trebeck. What time did you go to Mr. Babe's that night? - It was a little before nine at night.

Q. How late did he stay? - Till a quarter past eleven, or thereabouts, the watch had gone eleven.

Q. You saw Lamb the whole of the time? - I did.

Q. He was drinking with a party of friends? - He was.

Q. Pretty lively and jovial together? - I was not sitting with him.

Q. They were all pretty lively and jovial together, as usual, as men are in those sort of places; there was no fellow so stupid as to go to sleep a part of the evening? - Yes, Lamb did.

Q. And early in the evening? - Between nine and ten.

Q. He did not set by himself from nine to ten; and you are sure he came in the house at half past nine? - Between nine and ten.

Q. You had been there some time? - Before nine o'clock.

Q. So that from nine to half past nine, he certainly was not there; so that from the time you went in till half past nine, he certainly was not there? - No.

Q. He did not come in till past nine, of course he had not been there before you went, he came in after you? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. Whether there were any body in the box during that time, or whether he was alone? Was he at any part of the time alone? - I cannot say to that.

Court. Can you tell what time exactly you went to the house? - A little before nine o'clock, perhaps a quarter.

JOHN HINTON sworn.

I am a writer to a law stationer.

Q. Did you use the Swan public house in the Butcher-row? - I did.

Q. How long have you used it? - About two years or more.

Q. Do you know the prisoner, Lamb? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember hearing of this robbery? - Yes, I have heard of it.

Q. Do you remember being at that public house that night? - I do.

Q. What time did you go there? - I was there about seven, or between seven and eight o'clock.

Q. What time did Lamb come in? - Between nine and ten o'clock.

Q. Which went away first, you or Mr. Lamb? - I went away first.

Q. Now what time was that? - About twelve o'clock.

Q. You left him there then? - Yes.

Q. Did you see Mr. Belgum there? - Yes.

Q. And Mr. Pinking? - Yes.

Q. And the landlord of course? What box did you sit in; how far off was the prisoner's seat? - About ten feet.

Q. Was you in the same box with Belgum and the others? - Yes.

Q. Was that opposite to where Lamb sat? - Yes.

Q. Did you see him go out during all that time? - No, he did not.

Q. If he had gone out must you have seen him? - I certainty must have seen him.

Q. How long have you known him? About twelve months.

Q. Then you are sure as to the person of the man, you are sure it was him; was he joined in company in his box at different times during the evening? - Not to my knowledge.

Q. Had the people come in the box? - Yes.

Q. Was he alone at sometimes? - I believe he was alone at sometimes.

Q. Do you remember his being particularly heavy or stupid during any part of the evening? - He was what I always saw him, a very sedate man.

Mr. Trebeck. You saw him all the time, from nine till eleven, did not you. From half past nine if he had been sleepy you must have seen it of course?

Mr. Knapp. I do not mean he was actually asleep, but did he appear sleepy any part of the evening? - No.

John Lamb , Not GUILTY .

Ann Lamb , GUILTY . (Aged 27.)

Death .

Ann Clarke , GUILTY . (Aged 23.)

Death .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-29

Q. JAMES SMITH was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 28th of November , two brass cocks, value 30s. an hundred pounds weight of lead, value 30s. the goods of Sampson Hanbury , Henry Reid and Truman Willebois .

ABRAHAM BRUEMAN sworn.

I am clerk to Messrs. Hanbury.

Q. What is the firm of the house? - Sampson Hanbury, Henry Reid and Truman Willebois.

Q. Did you take notice of any thing particular having happened in their brew-house the 28th of November last? - Yes, that day, Friday. Between six and seven in the evening I went as usual, to see if the men were about their business as usual, to see if they were filling up the beer, and I found the cock was cut off the leather hole or pipe, that they fill the beer up with, and they could not go on; I then told them to look at the other place, and there was three cut away, and that is all that I know that night.

Q. Describe how these brass cocks were fixed. - It is a fixture to the leather pipe in the running storehouse, or tun room, where we fill up the beer.

Q. Did you endeavour to find out how these were taken? - I could not that night, somebody else did, but I did not till the morning; the next morning the man that went to open the gates, found the lock had been wrenched off.

Q. Did you perceive any thing missing the next morning? - Yes, about ten or twelve feet of leaden pipe that was cut off.

WILLIAM PROCTOR sworn.

I live with Mr. Hanbury.

Q. What are you there? - I am the mill boy.

Q. Do you recollect seeing a person on the 28th of November last? - Yes.

Q. Should you know him again? - Yes.

Q. About what time was it? - About four o'clock; the prisoner is the man, I spoke to him, and asked him what he did there in the mill-track?

Q. Is that within the brewhouse? - Yes; he said he saw Mr. Brueman coming down, and he was there before me.

THOMAS LONDON sworn.

I am a sawyer.

Q. Do you remember any thing particularly taking place on the 28th of November last? - I was coming by at half past seven, and I saw the prisoner at the bar with a sack on his back, and I fol

lowed him to see where he went to, he went in Mint-street with it, into an old iron shop, Mrs. Yardley; and he put the door to, and just as the door was put to I shoved it open, and I saw him throw it down from his shoulder into the shop; I asked him how he came by it? he said it was given him, and then he said he found it, and then he said he saw it tumble out of a cart, and he picked it up; then I sent for William May, and he took the prisoner up, and took the lead to Union Hall.

Q. Were there any body sent for at Union Hall? - They were, the clerks of Thrale's brewhouse were sent for.

Q. When Thrale's clerk came, what did Thrale's clerk say in the presence of the prisoner? - He said he had been to work for them, but he was discharged.

Q. Did he say whose property it was? - He said he believed it belonged to them.

Q. Was the prisoner committed? - He was, on Friday night.

Q. Who has had the property since? - I have had it all the time; I marked it.

WILLIAM BREWER sworn.

He was brought up the next day, on Saturday, and the lead, and Mr. Brueman came up and swore to the property.

Q. To London. What had this man in his bag besides lead? - These two brass cocks.

Q. Who has had that property? - One part was taken to the brewhouse, but I marked it, and part was left at Union Hall.

THOMAS PURCELL sworn.

Q. Was you, on the 29th of November at Union Hall? - Yes, I was.

Q. Did you see any property there? - Yes, I did.

Q. Whose property was it? - The property of Mr. Hanbury and Co.

Q. What are you? - One of the brewers in Mr. Hanbury's brewhouse.

Q. Was the property that was produced in Union Hall, in the presence of the prisoner, marked by any body? - Yes, I believe it was marked by Thomas London .

Q. To London. If I understood you right, you did not carry it to Union Hall? - Yes, I did, when I took the prisoner, the same night.

Q. Did you take the cocks and lead both? - Yes.

Q. Was it separated before it was marked or after? - After it was marked.

Q. Look at the cocks and see if they are the same you marked? - They are; the cocks were left at Union Hall the Friday night till Saturday, and then they were taken to the brewhouse.

To Purcell. Did you take any property, or see it taken from Union Hall to your Brewhouse? - I did. On Saturday I took and fitted this piece of lead to the place where it had been cut off, and it corresponded exactly; it appeared newly cut off.

Q. Did you see any place that had been broke behind the brewhouse? - Yes, I did.

Q. Was it the front or the back of the brewhouse? - At the back of the brew-house, the staple was wrenched.

Q. Was there any thing near the door by which you could reasonably collect it had been wrenched with? - Yes, there was a dung fork near, and one of the tongues was bent.

Q. To Brewer. What are you? - I am a cock founder.

Q. Look at these cocks on the table there. - I know the cocks, for I made them for Trueman's brewhouse.

Q. Is that Mr. Hanbury's brewhouse? - Yes; it is called Trueman's brew-house.

Q. How long ago did you make them? - A year and a half ago; there is part of the work that I make myself.

Court. To what part are they fixed? - They are fixed to a leather pipe.

Q. What is that leather pipe fixed to? - To a vat.

Q. When it is fixed there does it remain there? Is the leather a moveable thing? - The leather is a fixture, but the cock is removeable, and takes off to be repaired. The vat is a fixture to the brewhouse, and the pipe is a fixture to that, and the pipe is only moved about as is convenient, from barrel to barrel.

Q. When once you put it on that leather it is never taken off. - Unless it is to repair.

Q. They do not shift these cocks about from place to place? - No; it remains there until it wants repairing.

Q. What is this back or vat? - It is a large tub.

Q. It is fixed in the freehold? - It is fixed in the premises.

Q. Supposing it is as small as this (holding up an ink stand) could you take it up? - No. It is very large.

Q. Is it a tub that is moved about in the brewery from place to place. - It is not. It is fixed.

Mr. Trebeck. Is it so fixed on account of its weight? Is it nailed and secured? - It is fastened on things on purpose for it, I suppose.

Q. Is it as much a fixture to the building as this ink stand is to this book? - No. It is fixed, it is part of the building of the brewhouse.

Q. What size first of all is this back as you call it? - I cannot tell very well the size of it.

Q. To Abraham Brueman . What is this vat or back? - This is a square vat that stands about seven or eight feet high, it holds about five or six barrels of beer, we pump the beer out from a well into that, and these leather holes are fixed to this vat on purpose to fill the barrels below, and these cocks are placed to the ends of the holes, the leather, are fixed to this vat.

Q. Is this vat part of the building or not? - It is a vat that belongs to the brewery.

Q. Now in what manner is it fixed? - It is fixed on posts.

Q. It is fixed on posts, and these posts are fixed on the ground. - Yes.

Mr. Trebeck. When the vats are not employed, do not these cocks unscrew? And are they not taken off for cleaning? - When we have done brewing we take them off.

Court. Are they taken off for no purpose than that of mending. - When we have done brewing we take them off and put them by, for fear of having them stole.

Q. Then I understand you that they are put by at the end of the season? - The cocks and leather is all taken off.

Q. The vat is less? - The vat is in the frames, which is fixed in the building, and then a frame made round, and the vat is put on it.

Q. Supposing the vat, as light as that inkstand, in this frame work could not you take it up in that way? - No, it is above you; you could not lift it up without unnailing it.

Q. Then is the frame work, a fixture to the building? - It is nailed to some part of the building, but I can hardly tell you where. This vat is a fixture.

Court. As to the lead, that lead was fixed to the building, was not it? - Not to the building, to the brewery utensils.

Court. The leaden pipes are not taken off, they are fixed to the utensils of the brewery, and the utensils are fixed in the freehold? - Yes, they are.

Mr. Trebeck. Unto what utensils they are fixed? - Mr. Purcell will tell you, it belongs to his department.

Q. To Purcell. Where is this lead fixed? - It is a waste pipe of the jackback engine, and fixed to the brewery.

Prisoner. As I never did any thing but hard labour for my bread, I heard that there was a man wanting; and I went to the brewhouse to see if this place was convenient; and the first I saw, was the mill boy, and I asked him if they did want a man? and he told me they did; and I saw another man and he told me he could not tell; I called in again on Friday, and the mill boy told me he had a man. It was between three and four o'clock I was there, I staid there some time, talking with the mill boy; and I asked him how many horses there were for the mill? he told me twenty-four of them, I told him then the man ought to have good wages to look after so many; he told me he had sixteen shillings a week for looking after them, and four-pence a piece for harnessing these horses, and something the miller allows him a week; and he said they make more than their wages, by what they make out of the brewhouse, such as bran and corn, that they sell. I asked him which way they carried these things out, he said at the fore-door, says I, does not the watchman see? says he, the watchman will not see. Says he, on the morning, they come up this way; and I am here by three o'clock in the morning, and I give them the key, and they go out of this door; and says I, do not they of course give you any thing? No, says he, they never give me so much as a glass of gin; and I asked him, whether the watchman had any thing? He said, he supposed they went shares in it. After that I went to Ratcliffe Highway, where the great fire was, and came back again; and there was a cart there, and I saw something in the cart, and this sack rolled out from the hinder side, the cart having no tail-board to it; and I was going to halloo to the man that something dropped out of the cart, and there was a gentleman said, he thought he saw the man kick it out of the cart; says he, it is not worth while hallooing after him, and I took it up, to see what it was, and then I took it on my shoulder; there was a woman that came up East Smithfield along with me, and she saw me pick it up, and drag it to the cross-way, and see the gentleman help it on my shoulder.

Q. To Prosecutor. What day was it you saw the man there? - Friday the 28th.

GUILTY , Of the larceny, but not of cutting it off. (Aged 35.)

Fined one shilling and discharged.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-30

30. WILLIAM HUNTER , was indicted, for that he on the 25th of September , had in his possession, a writing, partly printed and partly written, called a Navy Bill, under which said paper was then and there contained an assignment for payment of the sum of twenty-five pounds; on the back of which said Navy Bill and Assignment was contained, a certain paper partly printed and partly written, called an endorsement; and that he afterwards forged and counterfeited a certain receipt of money, mentioned to be contained in the said Navy Bill, with intention to defraud our Lord the King .

Indicted in a second count, for uttering the same, with intention to defraud our said Lord the King.

And several other counts, charging that he meant to defraud our said Lord the King, the Treasurer of the Navy , and William Thornton .

The indictment opened by Mr. Alley. And the case by Mr. Fielding.

EDWARD WILSON sworn.

Examined by Mr. Knowlys.

Q. You was pilot on board the Lord Mulgrave, Captain Rhodes? - Yes.

Q. Have you been paid your demands for your services on board that ship in respect to this certificate (a certificate shewn him) - Yes.

Q. You have no demand for services on board the Lord Mulgrave, from June to September last? - I have not.

Q. Did you serve on board the Lord Mulgrave from June to September? - Yes.

Q. Is that the certificate you received for your services on board the Lord Mulgrave, Captain Rhodes, look at the indorsement? - It is the same.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - No, I do not know that ever I saw him beore.

Q. Did you ever give him any authority to receive money for you on this occasion? - No.

Q. I see you have endorsed it to be paid to Mr. Thornton? - Yes.

Q. When did you send to Mr. Thornton? - I think it was Tuesday the 9th of September.(The certificate read by the clerk of the court.)

To the honourable commissioners of his Majesty's navy, this is to certify that Edward Wilson, was constant pilot of his majesty's armed sloop of war, Lord Mulgrave, Thomas Rhodes , Esq. commander, from the first day of June to the date here of, and that the said Edward Wilson , piloted the said sloop from the river Humber to the Downs, and from thence to Spithead with convoy, and from thence back to the said river Humber; where he moored her with safety, and during that time behaved with great propriety and fidelity; given under my hand, this 23d of September, Thomas Rhodes .

Endorsed, please to pay this to Mr. William Thornten , from your humble servant, Edward Wilson .

Prisoner. You have examined this certificate? - Yes.

Q. Is it in the same state as when you sent it to Mr. Thornton? - No, there is something more at the bottom of it, there is something here wrote at the bottom of it, which I do not rightly understand.(Read by the Clerk of the court.) No books for the above time, Rhodes.

Mr. Fielding. Do you know any thing of that Writing? - I do not.

This certificate entered P.H.

WILLIAM THORNTON sworn.

I am a ship agent and exchange broker .

Mr. Shepherd. You are the person whose name I suppose to be improperly put on this Stamp? - Yes.

Mr. Shepherd objected to Mr. Thornton, as not being a competent witness, because if it should turn out in evidence that there was no forgery of his name, he then would be put in the condition of refunding the money, therefore as an interested person in the event of this trial he could not be examined; after some altercation between the counsel on both sides, the court allowed the objection.

THOMAS DAVIS sworn.

Q. I believe you are in the comptroller's office of the navy? - Yes.

Q. Chief clerk there? - Yes.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? Is he a clerk there? - Yes.

Q. What was his particular department there? - He was taking care of the pilot's certificates, and making out the pilot's bills.

Q. When a certificate is lodged with him, tell my lord and the gentlemen of the jury, what the next immediate business is, that he is to perform? - He is to make out the bills with the assistance of other clerks, some he makes out and some the other clerks makes out, as they can be spared.

Q. What is the next immediate instrument that is to be prepared? - To make out the navy bill.

Q. Does that go through his office? Yes.

Q. When that bill is made out, where does that bill go to afterwards? - It goes to the board, to the commissioners to be signed.

Q. When this therefore is so done and signed by the three commissioners, what is the next stage.

Court. State to us the form of that navy bill.

Received the 20th of September 1794, No. 660.

Q. What is meant by received there? - It means that it is registered on that day.

Q. What is registered on that day? - This bill.

Q. What the is number six hundred and sixty? - That the is number of the registry of it.

Q. What is the word extra? - In the navy office, there are different heads of services, extraordinary, and ordinary, this is on the head of extraordinary.

Q. There is on the left hand side fifteen thousand four hundred? - That is the number of its entry in another book, where it is entered at large; the first registering is in one line; the other number, on the left hand, is the number where the bill is entered at large in the book. - Edward Wilson , pilot, extra reward for his services in piloting his Majesty's sloop of war, Lord Mulgrave, Captain Rhodes Commander, the sum of twenty-five pounds.

Q. Who fixes the sum of twenty-five pounds? - I six the sum of twenty-five pounds, I am the head clerk in the office, and I put the initials of my name on the left hand of the bill. T. D.

Q. You say Mr. Davis, in consequence of the certificate shewn you, that navy bill is made out, and you ascertain the sum that is to be paid, that is put in the margin, and then it is to go before the commissioners: What are their names? - Andrew Snape Ham, mand, John Henslow, and George Marsh .

Q. Is that a navy bill so far? - It is.

Q. Go on with what follows on the printed paper? - That is not done at the office where I am, Mr. Standard does that, a gentleman that is here.

Q. What follows in the paper? - No. 660, to be paid out of 20001. received the 8th of September, 1794; and allowed to pay piloting, Marsh, Roger and Marshall.

Q. Now explain what 6460 means? - I am not able to do that well, it is done in another office.

Q. In consequence of the first bill, which has been signed by the three commissioners then comes the subsequent. What are Marsh, Rogers and Marshall? - They are three commissioners, three commissioners first sign the navy bill, and then three the same, or others, sign the assignment, or order the payment.

Q. Then there is a date assigned 24th September 1794? - Yes by Mr. Standard.

Q. Then there is your initials again on the left hand? - That is to ascertain that it comes to the comptroller's office back again, in order to have that assignment

set off against the entry, after it has had the assignment.

Q. Major Wollard, is a gentleman, a clerk in another office? - He is.

Q. Will you be so good as to look at the certificate and see if you know that (a certificate shewn him)? - This is a certificate on which that bill was made out.

Q. That certificate you remember? - I think I can remember it.

Q. By looking at the certificate, are you enabled to say, when you first saw it at the office? - No, I cannot positively say, by an entry at the bottom P. H. with the date under the 11th of September, 1794; I conceive it was made out that time.

Q. The navy bill was made out after this of course? - When was the navy bill made out? - I cannot say exactly the day, after that, and then they are registered; and they are said to be made out when they are past.

Q. A certificate might have laid in the office sometime, before the navy bill was made out? - They do sometimes for a week or a fortnight.

Q. It was the business of the prisoner at the bar, to take in these things and forward them? - The bill unquestionably is not of his writing, the person who wrote it is here.

Q. Be so good as to look at the signature of these commissioners, are these the signatures of the commissioners? - Yes, they are.

Q. Now will you be so good as to look at your own indorsement upon the navy bill? - That is mine.

Q. When does it appear to bear date, as indorsed by you? - There is no date to it, it was done on my examining the bill; the certificate within mentioned, is indorsed by Edward Wilson, payable to William Thornton . - T. Davis.

Q. You have looked at the certificate, and seen to whom that certificate was indorsed, what is to be done with that; and what is the particular force of your indorsement in that part? - For the information of the pay office.

Q. Then that being done, is it capable without more of being carried to the pay office? - No, it is regularly carried to the clerk of the acts office, where Major Wollard is.

Q. What office is that? - It is a particular department.

Q. What is it taken to that office for? - They are entered in his office, from where they are delivered out to the parties, I believe.

Q. Who is the clerk of the acts? - George Marsh.

Q. But when you have so indorsed it yourself, that is, it self sufficient to entitle the person to carry it to the treasury office to demand the money? - That I cannot say.

Q. Is there any thing further to be done in the office, after you have witnessed it by your subscription, that the certificate within mentioned, is indorsed by Edward Wilson, payable to Mr. William Thornton? Is there any thing more necessary, than that Thornton himself, should demand it and sign a receipt for it? - I cannot tell.

Q. Where do you immediately transmit it when you have done this? - It goes in the clerk of the acts office, to be entered there? and delivered to the parties, or their agents.

Q. Then it is necessary to register it in the clerk of the acts office? - I conceive so.

Mr. Shepherd. You conceive it necessary to register them in the clerk of the acts office? Be so good as to tell me what is the meaning of that at the bottom T. D. - To shew that this bill has come down again to me, in order to be set off again with the assignment.

Q. You know the course of office,

what is Major Wollard? - He is a clerk, in the clerks of the acts office.

Q. Is that written by him, as the clerk, of the clerk of the acts office? - I believe so.

Q. Is that T. D. your's? - It is.

Q. Then you can tell us why it is put there? - It is to shew, that it is brought down, after it has been assigned, to have the assignment set off against the entry of the bill to make it compleat.

Q. Is that a necessary official act done by you? - It has always been done; and I have been there upwards of fifty years.

Q. I suppose that bill could not pass unless your name was there? - I think it is necessary to authenticate the paper, to make it negotiable.

Mr. Fielding. All that Major Wollard does, and your initials there is done after the commissioners have dispatched it all out of their hands? - It is.

Mr. Shepherd. Is not that D. to be written by you in the course of office, before the party entitled to receive it, gets it out of the office, to get the money for it? - Yes.

Mr. Fielding. And that you have generally done? - I have.

Q. And for what purpose? - When it is assigned for payment, the bills are sent back again to the comptroller's office and then I put T. D. at the corner, and direct them forward to the clerks, to have the assignment set off against the bill in the book.

Q. This is your initials to signify that it has come regularly from the commissioners, and for that purpose? - It is.

Court. Whether the progress of this navy bill would be stopped in the course of it if it had not this initial letter at the soor of it.

Mr. Fielding. Do you look on your initials in that place as essentially necessary to the validity of the thing? - How far it may be considered as necessary I do not know, but it is the custom of the office always to act so; but whether the bill can be considered valid without it, that is to be considered by them that pay it.

Court. I understand that if in case this bill was brought into the acts office, it would stop there, if your initials was not there? - I cannot tell that.

Mr. Shepherd. In all the course of time that you have been in the Navy Office, have you constantly put your initials T.D. as on this bill? - There has been an omission, but I always considered it as a part of my duty to do it.

Q. Is that a part of the bill? - No, it is no part of the bill.

Q. Or is it a part of the assignment of the bill? - No, by no means.

Court. It is a mark on the bill in order to make the bill authentick.

- PEPPERCORN sworn.

Q. I believe you are the junior clerk in the office were the prisoner acted? - Not at present.

Q. You was at the time this matter took place? - I was.

Q. Look at that bill (The navy bill shewn him) it is my writing, the body of the bill.

Q. Was you at the time you filled up that the junior clerk at the same office in which the prisoner was? - I cannot say I was the junior clerk; I was a clerk there.

Q. After you had filled it up, in whose care was it put then? - In Mr. Hunter's, I should think it was; I used to make out these bills for the assistance of Mr. Hunter.

Q. And when you had made them out, in whose department was it to take care of them? - We used to take care of them till they went to the board to be signed; after I made them out I suppose Mr. Hunter used to look at them, and then they go to the chief clerk to be examined, Mr. Davis.

Mr. Knapp. You suppose it was under the care of the prisoner; you had not

been in the office a very long time? - No.

Q. There were many persons in the office that had been in the office a great many years longer than you? - Yes.

Q. They are not here? - Some of them are.

OLIVER STANDARD sworn.

Q. I believe you are the chief Clerk and comptroller to the treasurer of the account; will you look at that bill, Mr. Standard. (The navy bill shewn him.) Did you make out that assignment for the payment of the bill? - It was made out at my office, that is my signature, O. S.

Q. For what purpose is that put in your office? - For the purpose of assigning the bill; I believe it is always customary in the office belonging to the navy board, that the initial of some person's name is put.

Q. For what purpose is it brought in your office? - As a record, to be entered in that office, and to be assigned to the treasurer of the navy for payment.

Mr. Knowlys. Is it then when it is assigned, a perfect bill? - It goes back to Mr. Davis's office.

MAJOR WOLLARD sworn.

Q. I believe, sir, you are chief clerk to the clerk of the acts? - No, not chief clerk, I am a clerk in that office.

Q. Have you seen that bill before.(A bill shewn him.) - Yes.

Q. Have you entered that at any time, and when? - Yes, on the 25th of September, it is entered first in another book, and then in the delivering book afterwards.

Q. After you had entered it, unto whom did you deliver it? - It is charged in our book to Mr. Hunter.

Q. Who gets it out of your office? - I do, it is carried in point of fact to the pay office.

Q. Do you give it in point of fact to the person that is to receive the money? Did you give it to the prisoner? - I cannot take on me to say.

Q. Are your books here? - Yes.

Q. What is the usual mode of the office? - It goes to the pay office from mine.

Q. Who takes it from you? - I cannot say, from the multiplicity of business.(The book produced.)

Mr. Shepherd. Who makes that entry that you are going to look at? - Sometimes I do. (Reads the entry.) Edward Wilson 25th of September 1794, from the service -

Q. Tell me to whom that bill is delivered out of your office? - It is charged to Mr. William Hunter, because there is more Mr. Hunters than one.

Mr. Fielding. I ask you whether you did or not give that bill into the hands of Mr. Hunter? - I cannot say.

Q. What do you believe? - I believe it to the best of my recollection, but I cannot speak on my oath.

Q. It is not always the party that brings it that takes it away? - Somebody comes for them sometimes.

Mr. Shepherd. You have told us that you are clerk to the clerk of the acts office, and by the course of the office, these bills before they are issued for the money pass through your office? - They should, they do not always.

Q. What do you do with them when you have them in your office? - We enter them first in the pilot book, and then in this book, which is the delivery book.

Q. Is that a regular official act of your's? - Yes, but I do not think I signed this, sometimes a gentleman does it for me.

Q. Is that a regular and official act; is the money regularly offered into the man's hands, unless it pass through your office, and have some signature to it? - No, it is not regular.

Court. But is it not a pilot bill whether you have that signature on it or not? - Yes, it can do without, but it is not regular.

Q. You say it has always been customary to put your name on it, and when it comes to the pay office, would it not be stopped there for the want of that circumstance? - No, it would not.

Q. Have you known any navy bills paid without that circumstance? - Several.

Mr. Shepherd. If I understand you, the pilot bills have been paid at the navy office without that signature from your office, but they frequently have a signature at your office? - Yes, always when they are brought.

Q. It does not pass your office regularly without a signature to it, from your office? - It does not.

JAMES SLANE , Esq. sworn.

Q. I believe you are in the pay office of the navy? - I am, I am cashier of it.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Perfectly well.

Q. Will you be so good as to look at this navy bill, do you know that bill.(The bill shewn him.) - Perfectly well.

Q. When was it brought into your office to demand payment? - I paid it to the prisoner on the 25th of September.

Q. What is the authority on which these things are paid? - When they are produced I always look at the signature of the commissioners, and then turn to the back to see if Mr. Davis had certified the payment, and finding William Thornton 's name on the stamp receipt, I paid it to William Hunter .

Q. What is that stamp? - It is a four-penny stamp, which is agreeable to act of parliament.

Q. There you saw the name of William Thornton, and you paid it on that authority.

Mr. Shepherd. You are cashier and payee of these bills? - Yes.

Q. Are you liable to refund to government for any improper payment that you make? - I have never known such an instance done, I pay for the treasurer of the navy, I am his cashier.

Mr. Fielding. The ground work on which you make your payment, is the signature of the commissioners, and the indorsement of Mr. Davis? - Certainly it is.

Mr. Knapp. In your situation as cashier, do not you give security? - No, there is no security equal to the custody, if I was to give a million it would not be equal to the custody,

Mr. Shepherd. I would take your Lordship's opinion, whether Mr. Slane is a good witness under these circumstances, as a cashier, it strikes me that Mr. Slane would be liable to refund to the treasurer of the navy, any payment that has been improperly made.

Court. If a banker's clerk pays with out proper authority he must refund, but not otherwise.

Prisoner. I would wish to ask Mr. Slane what he is allowed the old pence for? - I am allowed it by King and council.

Mr. Fielding. Looking down that bill, you having paid a great many of them in your life, what is the authoritative part of that instrument, does it stop with the signatures of the commissioners, and the indorsement on the other side? - Yes, it does.

Q. Then you say that the authoritative part of that instrument is the signature of the three commissioners, to the last assignment, and the immediate part is that indorsement on the back, and the signature of the name to which it is to be paid, on the stamp? - It is.

Q. What time of the day was it Mr. Hunter called on you with this? - Between two and ten.

Q. Had you any conversation with him? - Not at that time, I know I paid him two other bills at the same time.(The bill read.)

"Extraordinary, received the 20th of September 1794. No. 600, No, 153: to Edward Wilson, for pilotage extraordinary in reward for his services between the 1st of June and the 8th of September 1794; in piloting his Majesty's ship, the Lord Mulgrove, Thomas Rhodes, Esq. commander, from the River Humber to the Downes, and from the Downes to the River Humber, and from thence to Spithead, and from thence to the said River Humber, and attendance, as appears by a certificate, remaining in the comptroller's office; the sum of twenty-five pounds, 25l. A. S. Hammond, J. Henslow, G. Marsh; in the margin 25l. T. D.

The assignment for payment, 6460, to be paid out of the two thousand pounds; received the 8th of September, and appointed to pay pilotage on the head of wages; George Marsh , George Roger and S. Marshal.

Assigned 24th September 1794, O. S. 273, 94, T. D. and Major Wollard; the certificate within mentioned is endorsed to Edward Wilson, payable to William Thornton.

T. Davies."

Q. Now read the stamp. - For receipts four-pence, William Thornton, William Hunter

Q. Now you see Mr. Hunter's name is there, it was there when it was brought to you? - It was.

Q. You said before that you looked at the assignment, which was Thornton; how came you to pay it to Hunter? - We always make it a practice when the bill is endorsed, to pay it to the person that brings it.

Q. Would you have paid that bill unless it had the name of Thornton to it? - No.

Q. What do you think was the import of those names being on that stamp there? - When Thornton's name and Hunter's name were both on this piece of paper, I looked on it as a receipt and discharge of the money.

Q. You have been in the office a good many years? - Six and thirty years and upwards.

Q. Is it the custom with you, and has it been the custom of the office to pay on that sort of a thing? - Before the stamp act was introduced it was paid by simply signing the name under the sum, to which the bill was made payable, but since the receipt act has been required it has been always the usual custom to sign it as that is now.

Q. Was the word receipt made use of? - Never.

Q. Where was the name put? - Where you see the stamp now

Court. I suppose before the receipt took place it was on the same paper on the bill? - It was, and we have no other way of putting the stamp on, but by wafering it on the bill.

Mr. Fielding. Now I observe that this navy bill has at the bottom of it in red ink, the name Wollard with the initials of T. D. - I have no authority to look to that; it is no authority to the treasurer of the navy, it is done quite in another office from ours, quite distinct.

Q. I do not know whether you are acquainted with the hand writing of Hunter himself; whether you have ever seen him write? - I do not know that; I cannot speak to his writing.

Q. In what way did you pay that money? - By a draft on Coutts and Co. I have got the draft.

Q. Have you ever paid any bills that you can say to a certainty that no name of Wollard, in red ink, was ever there? - It is a very late thing that his name has been put there.

Mr. Shepherd. I take it for granted that sometimes you pay bills without any assignment? - I do not understand the question.

Q. Suppose Mr. Wilson had come with this bill himself? - If Mr. Wilson had come for the payment without the assignment I should have paid it Mr. Wilson.

William Price called, Being one of the people called quakers, refused to be sworn.

WILLIAM HAMMOND sworn.

Q. You know Mr. William Thornton? - I do.

Q. Do you know his hand writing when you see it? - Perfectly so.

Q. Be so good as to look at that name of William Thornton on that bit of paper, and tell us whether it is the hand writing of this William Thornton now in court? - I do not think it is.

JAMES CAPEL sworn.

Q. Will you look on these two names on that stamp? Have you ever seen Mr. Thornton's hand writing? - Yes.

Q. Are you perfectly well acquainted with him? Is that name Thornton his hand writing? - I believe not, it is not any ways like it.

G. W. DAVIS sworn.

Q. You are clerk of the comptroller's office? - I am.

Q. Do you know Mr. Hunter? - I do.

Q. You have seen him write many times? - I have seen him write some times, but not many times; I have stood near him in the office.

Q. You are not perfectly acquainted with his manner of striking his name? - No, I am not.

Court to Slane. Was that paper brought you with the name of Thornton and Hunter sealed on it in the way it is now, or was it brought to you on paper from the other, and you put the wafer on it? - It was brought in the manner exactly as it is now, by the prisoner, on the 25th of September.

CHARLES WRIGHT sworn.

Q. Are you in the comptroller's office? - I am.

Q. Have you seen the prisoner, Mr. Hunter write? - I have seen him write.

Q. Have you seen him write so as to say, on looking at a hand writing, whether it is his writing or not? - I can tell his writing in general.

Q. Clerks in general know each others hand writing tolerably well? - Yes, tolerable well.

Q. Look at that name, W. Hunter, before the name of Thornton on that receipt? - I cannot say it is his hand writing, it is larger then ever I saw him write, and rather better.

Q. To Wilson. Do you know Mr. Thornton's hand writing? - Yes.

Mr. Shepherd. How often have you seen Mr. Thornton write? - I have seen him write for seven or eight years, I have had letters from him.

Q. Did you ever see him write? - Yes.

Mr. Knowlys. And you say you have corresponded with him for six or seven years? - I believe it is.

Q. Give us your judgement whether the name of William Thornton is his hand writing or not? - I do not think it is, it is not like it.

Mr. Shepherd here addressed the Court, That this was no case to go to a jury: in the first place this was no receipt or acquittance within the meaning of the act of parliament. Secondly, that the indictment left out the initial letters T. D. and the name, major Wollard, which were on the navy bill produced. In which

arguments he was supported by Mr. Knapp.

He was answered by Mr. Fielding, Mr. Knowlys, and Mr. Alley.

Mr. Shepherd replied: And the Court agreed to save the points for the consideration of the judges, after the jury had given in their verdict as to the fact.

The prisoner called three witnesses who gave him a good character.

GUILTY. (Aged 26.)

Judgement respited .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-31

31. RUSSELL FARMER was indicted for that he was a person employed in stamping letters and packets in the General Post office , in London, and that on the same day, the 16th of July , at, and in the said General Post office, a certain letter, sent by one Humphry Ralph , of Ipswich, and directed to Thomas Bush , Esq . of Bradford, in Wiltshire, and containing a bank note, No. 5, 780, dated 7th June 1794, subscribed, I. Padman, for the governor and company of the Bank of England, for the sum of 30l. came to his hands and possession, and that he being such a person and so employed in stamping letters and packets as aforesaid, on the same day, in the parish of St. Mary Woolnorth , and then and there having the said letter containing the said bank note in his hands and possession, feloniously did secret the said letter, then containing the said bank note; the said bank note being the property of Thomas Bush , and the sum of thirty pounds of money being then due and unsatisfied to him .

Indicted in a Second COUNT, for the same offence, only calling it a packet instead of a letter.

The Third and Fourth COUNTS the same as the first and second, laying it to be the property of Humphry Ralph .

Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Eight COUNTS, only for stealing the said letter instead of secreting it.

The indictment opened by Mr. Russell, and the case by Mr. Garrow.

HUMPHRY RALPH sworn.

Q. I believe, on the 25th of July last, you was outrider to Thomas Bush , Esq. of Bradford, in the county of Wilts? - I was.

Q. Were was you at that time? - At Ipswich, in Suffolk.

Q. Did you on that occasion address to your house at Bradford? - I did.

Q. By what direction? - To Thomas Bush , Esq. Bradford, Wilts.

Q. Look at this, is this the letter?(the letter shewn him) - That is the letter.

Q. Will you be so good as to tell us what you enclosed in that letter? - I am looking at the copy of the bills that I made at the time I enclosed the within amount at the time of sealing this letter; the first bill was a bill drawn at three days fight. The next is a note of the bank of England, No. 914, ten pounds. The next is No. 4,780, bank note for thirty pounds, dated 7th June 1794, Padman; and the other was a bill of exchange, and two shares of tickets in the Irish lottery.

Q. This, sir, you sealed yourself in that letter? - I did.

Q. Who did you give it to? - I gave it to the servant of Mr. Evans, the innkeeper of the Golden Lion, at Ipswich, to put it into the post office.

Q. About what time was it that you gave it? - Nearly nine o'clock in the evening.

Q. You was at the time in Ipswich? - I was.

Q. Do you reside at Ipswich? - No; I reside at Bradford.

Mr. Raine. You did not put this letter in the post yourself? - I did not. It was near to the time of the post going out, and I told the boy to run as fast as he could.

Q. At what distance was it from the post office? - About three hundred yards.

Q. What time was it? - Within a quarter of nine in the evening.

WILLIAM GOODCHILD sworn.

Q. I believe in the month of July you was post master at Ipswich? - I was.

Q. Will you be so good as to look to the letter that will be shewn to you, and tell me whether that past through your hands as post master? (the leter shewn him) - Yes, it did; it has my mark on it.

Q. What does that mark import? - The postage of a treble letter to London, one shilling.

Q. Supposing a letter to be put in at Ipswich, addressed to Bradford, in Wiltshire; do you forward it to London, or have you any cross post by which you can send it? - I forward it to London.

Q. Supposing a letter to be put in on Friday, the 25th, at nine in the evening, at what time will that arrive in London? - The next morning.

Q. You have no bag made up at Ipswich of a Saturday for London? - No.

Mr. Raine. Is it quite a treble letter, Mr. Goodchild? - It is.

Q. We have understood that this letter, when it was given to a boy contained a very large packet; supposing in this packet there had been a bank note, and it any how had been taken out of the letter, would it have made any difference in the charge? - No, it would not.

Mr. Garrow. Supposing it had contained twenty bank notes, and short of an ounce, do you charge it more then a treble letter? - Nothing under an ounce is more than a treble letter; half an ounce is supposed to be more than a double letter, we charge for that treble. A single letter is four-pence, a double letter is eight-pence, and a treble letter one shilling; and it is no matter how many enclosures that is while it does it does not weigh an ounce.

CHARLES YOUNG sworn.

Q. What is your situation? - I am in the office, a sorter.

Q. Were you so on the 26th of July last? - I was.

Q. Did the bag of letters which was made up at Ipswich on the 25th, arrive duly at the General Post office? - It did.

Court. What time does it come in of a morning? - About seven or eight o'clock.

Mr. Raine. As you have been some time acquainted with the post office, you know all the steps that are taken in sorting and in stamping; these letters go through a variety of hands? - Yes, several hand.

Q. There is usually a crowd of hands? - There are several hands it has to pass through.

Mr. Garrow. When the bags are delivered, their contents are put in the hands of the stampers? - They are opened first.

Q. And then put to whom? - They are taken away for the stampers to put the mark of the arrival in London.

Q. Who are the bags opened by? - By the sorter.

Q. You being one that day, you opened hat bag? - Yes.

Q. Did it arrive duly in that state? - On the 26th it did.

Q. You delivered it duly for the stampers to stamp the date of the arrival? - did.

Q. Now my learned friend has asked you whether there is not a good deal of confusion, and a great many persons attending, there is no persons attend in the office. Are they sorted before they are stamped? - No, they are stamped first.

Q. Before they go to stamping that morning they went through other hands after your's? - No, only the person that took them from me to be stamped.

Q. Who is that person to whom you delivered them to be carried to be stamped? In what state did you give them to him? - I left them in the place; I opened them.

Q. And he carries them from you to the stampers? - Yes.

Q. Then they are stamped? - Yes.

Q. Then they are sorted? - Yes; and delivered out to the different letter carriers to the districts, from whence they belong.

Q. Have persons who attend for letters an opportunity of getting in and stealing any letter? - No, not unobserved.

Mr. Raine. There are several persons by the sorters, for instance, now who was it took these letters from you? - A messenger.

Q. Who was it? - I cannot recollect who it was.

Mr. Raine to Goodchild. What does your family consist of? - My two daughters are at home with me.

Q. Do they assist you? - No, I do all the business myself till the arrival of the mails, my letter carrier then comes up and assists me in tying up the mails.

Q. Your family and all your servants have access to the box? - No, nobody at all.

Q. How is your box secured? - It is a kind of a cupboard, it has a door to shut.

Q. Then your family has access to that box? - But not that same evening.

Mr. Garrow. (looking at that letter) Is that your charge of postage? - It is; that went through my hands.

Q. Supposing this letter to have been put in, as we suppose it was, about nine o'clock, between what time and that time was it stamped? - If it was brought to me before nine o'clock it was done by nine; if it was brought after the post was shut it was done precisely, in five minutes.

Q. What time does the post go off? - About a quarter after ten; we are allowed half an hour to make up the mail, after the arrival of the Norwich coach.

THOMAS BUSH sworn.

Q. Do you reside at Bradford in Wilts? - I did.

Q. Tell me whether you ever received this letter at Bradford? - I did, on the 30th of July last.

Q. Were there enclosed in it two bank notes? - There were no bank of England notes, they were two bills of exchange.

Q. Mr. Ralph is Rider for your house? - He is.

Q. When this letter was delivered to you on the 30th, did it contain every thing he has described? - Except the two bank notes, there was a deficiency of forty pounds, to what the letter states of the enclosure.

Q. Did it contain all that the contents of the letter induced you to expect? - Except forty pounds it did.

Q. Has Mr. Ralph travelled for your house long? - Three and twenty years.

Q. You know the manner of his making up his letters and sending them to you? - Yes.

Q. Will you be so good as to observe the appearance of that letter, and tell me how it was when it was brought to you? - This letter appeared much more dirty than any letter we had ever received from him before; when I found the deficiency of forty pounds it led me to look at the letter with some nicety, I observed that the letter appeared much more dirty than we are accustomed to receive from him, and it appeared to be almost worn out at the edges, as if it had been carried in some person's pocket; the seal appeared to have been broke just at the bottom of it and lifted up.

Q. Had it been a wax impression? - Yes, a wax impression of the initials of Mr. Ralph's name, and it appeared to be opened by one part of the seal.

Mr. Knapp. Was it replaced? - It appeared to be done clumsily, yet not so on the whole.

Q. On examining it carefully afterwards you had no doubt it had been opened after the first seal had been put on it? - I had not.

Q. Did you attend to the stamp? There appears to be two stamps, a London stamp, and another? - The London stamp contains in a circle certain figures and letters denoting the day and month of its arrival in London, the circle remained, but the letters denoting the day and the month, appears to be obliterated.

Q. These observations apply to only the London stamp? - The other is very legible, 29th of July 1794, this led me to discover in what manner they were obliterated, in looking through the paper, I saw the paper was very thin, so that it was very evident that it was obliterated by being scraped with a knife, or some such thing.

Q. Now, Mr. Bush, this letter being put in Ipswich, on the 25th, you ought to have received it on the 27th with the London post mark of the 26th? - Certainly on Sunday.

Q. Instead of which you did not receive it till the 30th with the London post mark of the 29th; supposing it to come to London by the post of the 26th, it could not by any possibility have remained in the post office till the 29th? - They generally come on the 27th.

Mr. Raine. Here appears something to be scratched, but whether it is the Post office stamp you cannot say? - It might, or might not be a stamp, it always appeared to me to be a stamp.

Jury. There are part of the letters left on? - It is just as clear as the sum.

Mr. Raine. With respect to the contents of the letter there are forty pounds missing, but what description of notes these were that were missing you do not know? - I did not at that time, but since I have heard.

Mr. Garrow. Supposing a ten pound note, and a thirty pound note of the Bank of England, were to have been put in, would that satisfy the omission that you discovered? - Certainly.

Mr. Raine. I do not think a forty pound draft would, because if in the letter it was said the enclosed are bank notes and drafts to such an amount.

Mr. Garrow to Ralph. Did you enclose in this letter bank notes to the amount of forty pounds? - I did.

Q. Was it made up of a thirty pound bank note and a ten pound one? - It was.

Q. The other notes were not negotiable without endorsing? - Not without acceptance; they were drawn at the same dates as dated, but not accepted.

JOHN WILLIAMSON sworn.

I am one of the messengers of the General Post office in Lombard-street.

Q. Was the prisoner, Farmer, employed as a stamper there on the morning of the 26th of July? - He was.

Q. Was he employed in stamping letters and packets at the General Post Office, on their arrival from the country mails? - Yes.

Q. Supposing a letter to have been put in the Post Office at Ipswich, intended for Bradford at Wilts, would that in the course of that morning have come under his hands? - Yes.

Q. I will trouble you to cast your eye on this paper to tell me whether you find this stamp of the 29th of July 94, as a stamp of the Post Office, intended to denote its arrival at that morning, at the Post Office? (The letter shewn him) - Yes.

Q. Provided it came by the mail to the Post Office, then it would denote its arrival, but if it is put in London, it denotes a receipt of the day it is put in? - It is so.

Q. Now look at another part of that letter and see if you see the remains of a Post Office stamp look? - One looks like the remains of a Post office stamp, I have got the stamp in my pocket of the 26th of July, and 29th, and an impression.(Produces them.)

Q. Does it appear to you from inspection, that this, that at present is so obliterated, appears to be a stamp of this date? - It appears to me so.

Q. I observe the figures, 94, is still apparent on it? - They are.

Q. You have no doubt of this to be a Post office stamp? - I have not the least doubt of it.

Q. Supposing this to have been put in at Ipswich on the 25th, and to have arrived on the 26th, to go to Bradford in Wilts, in due course of post, without being taken out of the Post office, could it have had any other stamp on it than that of London the 26th, it would have been stamped on the morning of its arrival, and and forwarded by the evening mail? - Yes.

Q. Without having been taken out of the post and brought back, by no possibility it could have got the date of the 29th on it? - No, it could not.

Mr. Raine. You are very well acquainted with the mode in which this stamping is conducted? - Yes.

Q. I believe it sometimes happens that those who are employed to be stampers in turns are sometimes called away to assist one another? - They have no orders so to do, they are not to do it, they have positive orders not to do it.

Q. Sometimes there are country letters that gets among the town letters? - They are from between three to five hundred of the country letters get among the town letters, but that is owing to the confusion of the towns on the roads.

HELEN FROST sworn.

Q. I believe you lived some time ago at the Dolphin-inn, at Huntingdon? - Yes.

Q. Was you there at the races, the 4th and 5th of August? - I was.

Q. Do you remember that person at the bar there? - Yes.

Q. On what day did the prisoner come to your house? - He came and exchanged a note on the 7th, and the first day of the races was the 4th.

Q. Do you know what day of the week the races began? - The races began on Tuesday.

Q. On what evening was it you changed a note? - Thursday the 7th.

Q. Who changed the note? - One who is a witness.

Q. On Thursday the 7th who gave you a note? - Mr. Pepperdy

Q. Who was Mr. Pepperdy? - A gentleman that came to the house, to the Dolphin with Farmer, they came there on the first day of the races.

Q. In what light did they pass there? - As gentlemen, as I thought, that came to the races.

Q. Did they pass as relations? - They passed as brothers.

Q. And they continued at your house till Thursday evening? - Yes, backwards and forwards.

Q. Now on Thursday evening when Pepperdy gave you a bank note, who was present? - Farmer, who passed as his brother, was present.

Q. What sum was the bank note for? - Thirty pounds.

Q. What was you to do with it? - I was to go and carry it to the bank to get it changed, at the Huntingdon bank, I made objections and they wished me to go, Mr. Pepperdy and Farmer desired me to go.

Q. At last you consented to go? - I did, I went.

Q. Where did you go to? - To the Huntingdon bank.

Q. Who was the gentleman you gave the note to? - To a Mr. Strother, a clerk in the bank.

Q. What did Mr. Strother give you? - Two Huntingdon bank notes of ten pounds each, and ten pounds in cash.

Q. What did you do with the change that you got from Mr. Strother? - I carried it back to Mr. Pepperdy in the presence of Mr. Farmer.

Q. Are you quite sure that the bank note that you carried to Mr. Strother is the same that they gave to you? - I am.

Q. How soon after did the prisoner leave your house? - He left our house the night I gave him the change.

Q. Where was he to go to? - I do not know.

Q. Did Mr. Farmer ever go by the name of Pepperdy? - Not that I know of.

Q. How long did Pepperdy continue there? - I do not know, there are other servants in the house.

Q. Did you know the name of Farmer? - I did not.

Mr. Raine. What coloured coat had the man on that gave you the note? - Black.

Q. At the time this note was given you to get changed were any other directions given you? - Yes, they told me to get two ten pounds Huntingdon notes, and ten pounds cash.

Q. They told you to get two ten pounds Huntingdon bank notes, which might lead to a discovery, and not all cash that might have not led to a discovery.

Mr. Garrow. I do not know whether you are in the habit of getting change at country banks? Do you think you could have got all cash at a country bank? - Yes, I think I could.

Q. The next time you try you will be mistaken.

FRANCIS THOMAS STROTHER sworn.

Q. I believe you are clerk in the Huntingdon Bank? - I am.

Q. Did you receive a bank note from the last witness, and gave her change for it? - I did.

Q. Have you got the bank note here? - I believe it is here; I have got it.

Q. Have you got your book there? - Yes.

Q. You received of her when? - On the 7th of August last.

Q. From the last witness a thirty pounds bank note? - I did.

Q. What is its number? - No. 5780, June 7, 1794.

Q. Now give us a description of the notes you gave? - A bank note of ten pounds, No. 696, dated the 2d of November 1791; one other for ten pounds, No. 879, dated 1st January 1792; and ten pounds in cash.

Q. Be so good as to cast your eye on this, and tell me whether these are the two Huntingdon bank notes she received from you. (The notes shewn him.) - Yes, they are.

Q. Look at the bank note, and see if that is the bank note you received from her? - Yes, it is.

JOHN LEECH sworn.

Q. You live at Ramsey, in the neighbourhood of Huntingdon? - Yes, I do.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - I do, I saw him at Ramsey.

Q. Do you know a person of the name of Pepperdy; have you been to school with him? - I have; I saw Pepperdy and the prisoner at the bar at Ramsey, on the the 5th or 6th of August last.

Q. What distance is Ramsey from Huntingdon? - I believe it is about twelve miles.

Q. Was it during the Huntingdon races, that you saw him there? - It was during the time of the Huntingdon races, I saw them several times together.

Q. Did you see them at Huntingdon together? - I saw them at Ramsey and Huntingdon both.

JOSIAH OSBALDISTON sworn.

Q. I believe you live at Lambeth Marsh, a glazier by business? - Yes.

Q. How long have you known the prisoner at the bar? - About fifteen months.

Q. Have you had dealings with him in your way of business? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember seeing him on the 26th of July last? - I believe I did.

Q. Does that apply to the date or fact? - The date.

Q. Did you advance him any money? - Yes, I did.

Q. Was his visit to you for the purpose of borrowing money of you? - I think it was, I could not exactly tell, because he did not speak any thing about business when he came.

Q. Did he ask for money when he came? - He did.

Q. Then I think there should be no difficulty in telling what business he came upon? What money did he borrow of you? - Eight pounds fourteen shillings.

Q. What security did he lodge with you? - A note of twenty pounds one shilling and six-pence.

Q. Who was that drawn upon? - Upon Mr. Read, at the post office.

Q. When did that fall due? - The 6th of August.

Q. Did the prisoner at any other time owe you any money? - Yes.

Q. Did you advance him the money in cash, between what he owed you and the amount of the twenty pounds bill? - No, I did not; there was a bill due to me, there was a debt due to me more than the balance of the note.

Q. You paid it away? - Yes, to Mr. Painter.

Q. When was it returned to you dishonoured? - It was returned to me on the 7th.

Q. Did you in consequence of the return of this dishonoured bill, go to the prisoner at the bar? - I went to him on the 8th, in the morning.

Q. By what time was you with him? - About ten o'clock.

Q. Did you see him? - Yes.

Q. Did you inform him of the dishonour of his bill? - Yes.

Q. Did you learn of him whether he was recently returned from any place in the

ountry? - His wife mentioned it, he was within hearing, he was in the shop and she was in the parlour.

Q. Do you believe he heard what she mentioned? - I believe so.

Q. Have you any doubt? - I have not a doubt.

Q. What did she say in his hearing? - She said he had just returned from Huntingdon races; this was as early as Monday morning, the 8th.

Q. Did he give you any thing in lieu of it? - He gave me two Huntingdon bank notes; I cannot say I looked at them, it is rather unnecessary to shew them you, for I never made any memorandum of them.

Q. Were they bank notes of ten pounds each? - Yes.

Q. Mr. Painter was the person to whom you had passed Mr. Read's dishonoured bill?

Q. What did you do with the two Huntingdon bank notes, in lieu of Mr. Read's dishonoured bill? - I immediately paid them to Mr. Painter.

Q. Are you positively certain that the Huntingdon bank notes you gave to Mr. Painter, were the same that the prisoner gave to you? - I am.

Q. Could you make any mistake about that? - I could not, because I did not stop on the road any where.

Mr. Raine. Mr. Osbaldiston, you say that Mr. Farmer came to you on the 26th of July; what time of the day was it? - It was on the morning part.

Q. Do you recollect what time it was? - Between ten and twelve o'clock.

Q. That is sometime after the Coventry letters arrive in London, of course it must be between ten and twelve o'clock that he came to borrow the money? - Yes.

Q. And he did accordingly borrow money of you? - Yes, he did.

WILLIAM PAINTER sworn.

I am a glazier, in Fleet-street.

Q. Did you receive from the last witness, Mr. Osbaldiston, any Huntingdon bank notes? - Yes, on the 8th of August.

Q. What did you do with them? - I paid them away to Mr. Hughes, at Messrs. Goslings, through the hand of Clements, my servant.

Q. You have your book; have you a memorandum of them? - I have.

Q. Why did you send them to Mr. Hughes, at Joseph Gossing's? Do you leave cash there? - No, I do not.

Q. Are you quite certain that the Huntington bank notes that you gave to Mr. Clements, were the same you received from Mr. Osbaldiston? - Yes, the same.

Q. You had no other Huntingdon bank notes? - No, no others.

JOSEPH CLEMENTS sworn.

I am shopman to Mr. Painter.

Q. Did you on the 9th of August receive two Huntingdon bank notes from Mr. Painter? - Yes.

Q. Did you deliver them to Mr. Edward Hughes? - Yes.

Q. Are you positively certain that those that you deliver to Mr. Hughes, were the same that you received from Mr: Painter? - I am.

EDWARD HUGHES sworn.

Q. Did you receive on the 9th of August, two Huntingdon bank notes from the last witness? be so good as to look at them; are these the two notes you received from him? (The notes shewn him.) - They are the notes I received from Mr. Painter, but whether I received from Mr. Clements, I am not positive; there is my own hand writing, and their likeness corresponds

with my private memorandum.

Q. To Painter. Did you pay any other bank note on the 9th of August? - No, none, except the two I have been speaking of.

ISAAC PADMAN sworn.

Q. I believe you are one of the cashiers of the Bank of England, authorised to sign for the governor and company? - I am.

Q. Be so good as to look at the bank note, is it one you signed with your signature as authorised by the governor and company of the Bank of England? - It is.

Q. Do you know whether on the 26th of July, that was due and unpaid to the holder? - It was unpaid in the book till the 12th or 13th of August.(The bank note read by the clerk of the Court.)

"No.5780. I promise to pay to Mr. Abraham Newland, or bearer, on demand, the sum of 30l. London, June 7, 1794, for the Governor and company of the Bank of England. J. Padman, No. 578, entered, J. Limpus."

Prisoner. The way I came by the thirty pounds note, was, I took it in trade, in the shop; a person came in the shop and bought some articles, to the amount of one pound six shillings; a dozen pair of gloves, half a dozen for two shillings a pair, and half a dozen at four shillings a pair; which I gave change for; he was dressed in a black waistcoat, black coat and doe-skin breeches, with boots on; after he had got these articles, he asked me if I could give him change for a thirty pounds note? I told him I would do my endeavours; I went up stairs and brought down the cash, and gave him the cash, and he gave me the note; I at the same time put it in my pocket in the hurry of business; on some time after I happened to take it out on some business in my shop, and I put it in my private book, on the other side, I forgot to put it on one side as I usually do. On Monday morning, on my journey to Huntingdon, as I had promised two or three days before, I went in the stage, and staid there longer then I meant, and that caused me to change the note; I wanted to return on Wednesday morning; I asked several of my friends who were there, some who knew me and some who did not, if they could give me cash for this thirty pounds note; accordingly giving it to one Mr. Pepperdy, (Mr. Pepperdy's brother is a gentleman that keeps the Dolphin inn) after they had it they returned it to me, said, they could not change it; I returned into the town, and said, to my friend Pepperdy, what shall I do for money to carry me to town? says he, I am short myself; I said I must get change if possible; so I asked the servant to go with it; she rakes it to the banking house, asking me what she should bring me? I told her to bring me ten or twenty pounds in notes; I asked him what I should give her? he said a shilling, you cannot give her less; she gave me the notes and cash on the same evening; I came to town in the mail. I should have gone myself, only I detained myself too much on the grounds with the races, and I was packing up my clothes to come off, as the mail could not be detained for me.

JOHN FARMER sworn.

I believe you are brother to the prisoner at the bar? - Yes.

Q. What is he? - Breeches maker and glover.

Q. Were does he live? - At Newington Causeway.

Q. Do you recollect in the month of August any one coming to his shop? - Yes.

Q. Was it a person known to you? - No.

Q. What did he come there for? - He came and bought a dozen pair of gloves.

Q. Do you recollect how he paid for these gloves? - I remember after he bought the dozen pair of gloves he asked my brother whether he could change him a thirty pound note? my brother said, he would see what he could do; he immediately went up stairs and brought down the change, some was gold and some was silver.

Q. Did he give him this? Did he give him this change? - Yes, he laid it on the counter.

Q. Did he receive the note for that change? - Yes, I saw him take a piece of paper which, I suppose, must be a note.

Q. How was he dressed? - Black coat and waistcoat, and leather breeches, and boots.

Mr. Garrow. An entire stranger? - Yes

Q. Have you took any pains to find him since? - No.

Q. You advertised for him of course? - No.

Q. Taken no steps at all to find him? - Not to my knowledge.

Q. Was your brother in a very large way of business? - He kept about seven or eight men at work.

Q. And he was pretty much in cash in the month of August? He was an open man; you knew as much about his affairs as he did perhaps? - I do not know much of his affairs.

Q. Do you know a man of the name of Lambeth that he had borrowed money of about that time? - Not that I know of.

Q. Do you know a person of the name of Osbaldiston? - Yes.

Q. Do you know that he had borrowed a sum of money of him? - I cannot say.

Q. Did your brother usually mark his notes with red ink or black? - I cannot say to it.

Q. Did he mark them at the front or the back? - I will not say any thing more than what I know.

Q. How soon after he had received this note did he write his name on it? - I suppose an hour afterwards.

Q. Can you venture to say he did it before dinner? - I cannot say.

Q. Was it his own name or the name of the person he took it of? - I cannot say.

Q. Can you venture to swear he did write on it? - I cannot say.

Q. Did he keep a bill book? - I believe he did.

Q. How long have you been with him? - About three years.

Q. When did you see his bill book last? - I do not know indeed.

Q. Did you see it about the month of July or August? - I will not say any thing more than what I know.

Q. What did he use to enter in the the bill book? - I do not know indeed.

Q. You cannot read? - No, I cannot; that is more my misfortune.

Q. Where did you go to school? - I never went to school at all.

Q. Now, young man, do you mean to swear that? - Yes, I can with safety.

Q. Did your brother keep any book, called in the house a bill book for entering bank notes that pass through his hands? - I will not pretend to say that.

Q. Did he receive two bank notes? - I cannot say.

Q. How many has he received since you have been with him? Now upon your oath, did you see him ever receive one except on this month of August? - No.

Q. Where did the man say he lived? - He did not say where he lived.

Q. What did he say his name was? - He did not say.

Q. Did he say his trade? - No.

Q. Did he say who he was recommended by? - No he did not.

Q. Was that about the time of leaving off stamping? - I believe it was.

Q. Are you not a little shy with strangers when they come to deal with ready money and want no change? - Some times.

Q. Do you mean to represent that a mere stranger coming to buy a dozen pair of gloves, without your asking his name, trade, place of abode, who recommended him, or any other question, and that your brother gave him change for a thirty pounds note? - He did.

Q. How much did the dozen pair amount to? - I cannot say.

Q. Were they kid skin? - I do not know.

Q. Where they Woodstock? - Some were of the best gloves.

Q. How many were they of the best? - Half a dozen pair, they are thirty shillings sometimes.

Q. What was the other half dozen? - The other half dozen was beaver, at about two shillings and three pence a pair.

Q. Do you mean to represent that your brother to an accidental customer, for the sake of selling goods to the amount of forty shillings, gave change for a thirty pounds bank note? - Yes, he did.

Mr. Raine, You say you cannot read or write, of course you cannot be acquainted with your brother's books? - No.

Q. He might have received some notes in the course of his trade that you might not know of? - He might for what I know.

The prisoner called ten witnesses who gave him a good character.

GUILTY . Death . (Aged 29.)

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-32

32. ROBERT HARDY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 15th of September , a piece of woollen cloth of twenty yards, value 4l. the goods of James Gibbons .

JAMES GIBBONS sworn.

I am an auctioneer and woollen draper , I can only speak to the fact of having lost the woollen cloth, and I also took the prisoner myself. The cloth was taken out of my shop on the 15th of September, I saw it the day preceding on the 14th, my servant informed me that the shop had been robbed of a piece of woollen cloth, that was on the following morning the 16th.

Q. What time of the morning? - I think it was about nine o'clock.

Q. Is that servant here? - No, he his not.

Q. What did you do in consequence of that information? - In consequence of that information, I waited some little time in Newgate-street, that evening.

Q. Did you ever see your cloth again? - Never.

Q. Have you any body else that fixes it on the prisoner? - Here is my servant that see him as he was coming in the shop and taking it out publickly.

Prisoner. The night you was robbed did you lose any thing else besides the cloth? - I have had my shop robbed of about five hundred pounds worth in these two months; it was Gubbins's stock who was a bankrupt, and I bought the stock of the assignees.

Q. How many days after you lost the cloth did you apprehend me? - A week precisely.

Q. Did you apprehend me on Sunday? - No, on the Monday following.

Q. Did you know before you apprehended me that I was lame in my hand? - No, I did not; I apprehended him on account of robbing the shop adjoining me, Mr. Leopard's, the stationer; I apprehended him myself on the 22d; I was informed something between nine and ten o'clock in the evening, in consequence of the information given to me by my servant I attended the shop very particularly two days, and I had seen this man go by the shop, and I was in the counting house, between which and the shop there is a glazed partition; I stepped into the shop, and as I was standing in the shop, I saw this man and two others go by, and I followed them towards Cheapside; when they were got by the shop, I ran out behind a coach and got to a house opposite, and I saw this man with two others, one of them went and opened Mr. Leopard's door, the stationer's; the servant came forward to snuff the candle, they then ran away; they went a second time, and they went also a third time; I was then waiting and expecting every moment that they would take something out of the shop.

Q. Did you stop them at last? - I followed them down the street afterwards, and I took him myself; I had him search ed, and had a suspicion that he was going to draw a knife, in consequence of which, when I got him by the collar the other man came up, and I perceived him put his hand down, and I was afraid he was going to draw a knife; in the pocket afterwards was found a knife, which knife seemed to be adapted for a turn screw or some such purpose, the point was broke off.

Q. You know no more than that you took him, nothing was found on him at any time? - Nothing was found on him.

JOHN THARRATT sworn.

I was in Mr. Gibbons's shop, No. 92, Newgate-street , on Monday the 15th of September.

Q. Did you lose any thing? - Yes, on Monday evening, between eight and nine o'clock. A person came in to look at some stockings, (not the prisoner) and I shewed the person one parcel of stockings out of the window, and he asked for some more, and I was getting this second parcel of stockings out of the window, for the person to look at, and I heard some person, and I saw some person brush against the door.

Q. Had you sold those stockings at the time? - No.

Q. Was the person looking at them at the time? - He was.

Q. Was he brushing against the door of the shop? - No, a door that stood against a side of the counter, a door in the shop, close up to the window.

Q. What short of a door do you mean? - It was a door that belonged to another place, and we had no screen to prevent people from taking any thing out of the window, as they went past, and this door was taken from another place and put there as a screen. After my hearing this bustle against the door, I withdrew towards the window, and I saw a man's back parts, and I called out stop thief! and he flew from the counter with the cloth, and I saw his face as he turned round the counter. With my seeing him take the cloth it rather confused me, and I should have taken him if it had not been for the person I was selling the stockings to, he gave me a push with his hand, when I got over the counter, and if the counter had not been there I should have been down on the floor; I asked him

What he meant by giving me that push? he said, sir, I beg your pardon, I did it to secure the thief. I having no assistance in the shop, nor durst not call any in to secure this man, or I should have secured him, and this person who pushed me down he said he was not absolutely a companion of this Hardy's, indeed, he said, he was not, and he hoped I would not secure him.

Q. What sort of cloth was it he took away? - About twenty yards, as nigh as I can't recollect, worth about four pounds; I laid it in the window.

Q. Was there any light in the shop? - Yes.

Q. Did you see his face? - Yes.

Q. Had he a round hat? - Yes.

Q. Are you perfectly sure of your man? - I had three patent lamps, and a candle on each counter.

Q. Look and see whether you see your man? - (pointing to the prisoner) That there is the man, I am perfectly sure of it.

Q. How long might he be in the shop altogether? - He was not above a minute and a half in the shop.

Q. Has the property never been found? - No, never been found.

Prisoner. Pray, did you lose nothing else the night the shop was robbed besides the cloth? - No, nothing.

Q. No stockings? - No, none at all.

Q. What description did you give your master of me? Did you tell him I was lame in my hand? - No, I did not observe you was lame in your hand.

Court. Did you give your master any description of his person? - I gave my master the description of the person, that the hat was high crowned and pulled down behind and before, and that he had a great coat, with large white buttons, whether plated or metal, I do not know.

Q. Did you see him when your master took him up? - I did not see him till I saw him at Guildhall the next day.

Q. How was he at Guildhall? - He was in the prisoners box, besides him there was another person in the box, but I cannot say whether it was a prisoner or whether it was not.

Q. Did you know him immediately? - I knew him immediately, as soon as I saw him.

Prisoner. It was the constable that was with me.

Court. Did you know him to be a constable? - No, I did not till I was told.

Court to Tharratt. Do you mean to be positive? and you must be cautious in swearing to the man; but you must tell the truth; according the best of your knowledge, are you satisfied that he is the man? - I am satisfied he is the man.

Q. To Prosecutor. Why did you take this man up? - I took him up in consequence, when I first saw him go by the door -

Q. Did you take him up for the robbery of yourself, or for the act of robbing another, because the boy tells me that he had given you the description of his person? - He had given me a description of his person, but I took him for attempting to break into Mr. Leopard's.

Court to Tharratt. Had he such a great coat on at Guildhall as when you saw him before? - Yes, it was.

Prosecutor. I did not take him on Tharratt's description, because he gave me the description subsequent to my taking of him.

Prisoner. I was coming down Newgate-street, about half past eight o'clock, this gentleman took me and two others, and said, that I robbed a stationer's shop in Newgate-street; I went back along with him to the stationer's shop, the gentleman said, no, and gave no charge of me; directly he said, no, the prosecutor said I should go for a soldier; and when he found

I was lame in my right hand, he said he would send me out of London. The next morning they brought this lad to see whether I was not the lad that robbed the shop eight days before; accordingly he came in, and said I was the man; that he could swear to me by having my hat lopped, and having a great coat on; and and that I was the person that had taken the stockings out of the shop.

Q. To Prosecutor. Had you at Guildhall charged this man with taking the stockings out of the window? - No, nothing but the elastic cloth.

Q. Is the elastic cloth woollen cloth? - It is.

Prisoner. I had witnesses here last session, when the prosecutor moved to put my trial off. I have been in gaol twelve weeks.

GUILTY . (Aged 21.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the London jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-33

33. ANN GREENHILL was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 20th of August , four yards of printed cotton, value 5s. the goods of Joseph Craig .

The evidence called on their recognizances; and not appearing, the prisoner was

ACQUITTED .

Tried by the first Middlesex jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-34

34. WILLIAM HUNTER was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 21st of August , fifteen yards of callico, value 15s. twenty-four yards of napkeen value 1l. 14s. three quarters of a yard of woolen cloth, value 4s. three quarters of a yard of kerseymere, value 6s. a yard of linen cloth, value 1s. 4d. two dozen of coat buttons, value 1s. a quarter of a pound weight of silk and twist, value 5s. the goods of George Morrison .

GEORGE MORRISON sworn.

I am a taylor .

Q. Were the articles stolen from you at any time? - Yes.

Q. When? - I cannot say, whether a a week or a month, the prisoner was employed as a foreman in my business.

Q. When do you conceive you lost these things? - In the month of May.

Q. Was he living with you at any time? - Yes, regularly and duly, he came to me in the year 1793.

Q. You did not see them in the hands of the prisoner at all. Have you ever seen the property since? - the person from the police office who took him up, found a quantity of duplicates in his room.

Q. I ask you, have you ever seen any of your property again? - No, not till -

Q. When? - On the 5th of November last, at the police office Queen-square, Westminster.

Q. Was the prisoner under examination at that time? - He was.

Q. Have you any thing more to say about it? - No. What led to suspicion was from what my apprentice before informed me.

Mr. Knapp. These things were lost in May and found in November? - Yes; I missed them first in May, and I missed them month after month, different articles.

Q. And you found them in November? - I saw them in November.

Q. You did not see them till November? - I certainly did not.

WILLIAM LYON sworn.

I act us a clerk to Mr. Morrison.

Q. Do you know whether any property has been stolen from him at any time? - Yes.

Q. When was it? - During the months of May, June, and July.

Q. Have you ever found any of that property? - They have been found at the pawnbrokers; I went with Mr. Morrison and the constable and identified his property; one of the pawnbroker's names is Watson, the corner of Harman-street, and the other was Henry Turner and Co.

Q. I suppose you have seen that property that has been produced? - Yes.

Mr. Knapp. What are you? - A clerk to Mr. Morrison.

Q. A taylor's clerk, that is a new fort of a character -.

Prosecutor. Your lordship asked me when I saw these things; I do not recollect that; I went to the pawnbroker's and there I saw them first.

WILLIAM MESSENGER sworn.

I am a constable belonging to the police office in Queen-square. I apprehended the prisoner at the bar, and I searched his lodging room, the 5th of November last, I do not remember the day of the week. I apprehended him in the room between twelve and one o'clock; I found in a drawer between thirty and forty duplicates, eight of them belonged to this taylor. I went about with Mr. Morrison to the different pawnbrokers, and they from the duplicates produced the property that were then in pledge, which Mr. Morrison swore to be his.

Mr. Knapp. All you know is, that you went to a room where you found Hunter, the prisoner, and there you found these duplicates in a room? - He was not dressed at the time, he had not his things on, only part of them.

EDWARD SWAINE sworn.

I am a pawnbroker's servant; I produce a waistcoat, a piece of nankeen, five yards and a half, and a pair of nankeen breeches. I gave a duplicate on each of them; they were pawned separate by a person of the name of Hunter.

Q. Do you mean to swear to the person of the prisoner? - No, I do not know that it was the person of the prisoner.

Q. What day was it? - The waistcoat was pledged the 21st of August; the five yards and a half of nankeen was pledged on the 3d of September; the nankeen breeches on the 21st of October.

Court to Messenger. Separate those duplicates that belongs to this gentleman's property.

Q. To Swaine. See if you can find the duplicates that belong to these things? - Yes, here are three of these duplicates that match them.

Mr. Knapp. You say that these duplicates correspond one with the other? - They do.

Q. But you told the gentlemen of the jury that the person whoever it was you do not know? - I do not.

Q. Therefore whether it was this William Hunter , or any other William Hunter , you cannot tell. Do you know when the prisoner was apprehended? - I think in November.

Q. The things were pawned in September? - Yes, in September and October.

Q. So that there was, I believe, a month or five or six weeks between the time they were pawned and the prisoner was apprehended? - Yes.

JOHN BRIDGEN sworn.

I am a pawnbroker's servant, in Parliament-street.

I produce five yards of nankeen pawned the 12th of June last, in the name of Mary Hunter .

Q. Can you swear who pawned them? I cannot.

Q. Have you any thing else? - A pair of nankeen breeches, pawned the 19th of July, by William Hunter .

Q. Do you mean to speak to any person? - I cannot.

Q. Any thing else? - Another piece of nankeen breeches, in the name of John Hunter.

Q. Who pawned it? - I cannot say now the time is so long, it was the 12th of August last.

Q. Any thing else? - A waistcoat.

Q. What sort of a waistcoat? - It appears to me to be a Casimere waistcoat, pawned the 14th of October, by John Hunter, in his name, I recollect his person very well, but I cannot positively swear to taking any things of him, it is so long since.

Mr. Knapp. Then from this circumstance having took place so long ago it is impossible for you to identify the person? - I cannot.

Q. It was in June, July, August and October? - Yes.

Q. But with respect to the first article it was pledged by a woman, Mary Hunter? - It was.

Court. You said just now that these things were pledged by Mary Hunter ? - Can you say that Mary Hunter did pledge them, or pledged in the name of Mary Hunter ? - In the name of Mary Hunter .

JOHN BROWN sworn.

I am a servant to Mr. Battersea a pawnbroker, I produce a cotton Waistcoat.

Q. Is it callico? - It is called cotton.

Q. Is it not callico? - No.

Q. To Bridgen. Look at these duplicates and see if any answer to your things? - Yes, these is the ticket of the nankeen in the name of Mary Hunter .

Q. How many of your duplicates are they there? - Four in all.

Q. And they correspond with your duplicates? - They do.

Q. To Morrison. Will you be so good as to look at that piece of nankeen, can you swear to that? - No, I cannot.

Q. Is there any other article you can swear to? - The articles are not all here, there is some stripped waistcoats, I mean two callico Waistcoats.

Q. To Brown. How many waistcoats do you produce? - One.

Q. To Swaine. How many do you produce? - I produce a waistcoat.

Court to Brown. Who did you get the waistcoat from? - I cannot swear to the prisoner, that I took it from him; it was in the name of John Hunter, he has a brother in the name of John Hunter .

Q. Can you say who pawned it at all? - No, I cannot.

Q. When was it? - The 20th of August.

Q. Look at the duplicates, and see if there is any duplicates of your's among these eight duplicates? - Yes, one.

Q. To Swaine. What do you produce now? - A callico waistcoat, I see it is new.

Q. By whom pawned? - By a person of the name of William Hunter.

Q. Can you speak to the person of the man? - No, I cannot, it was on the 21st of August.

Q. See if there is any duplicates that corresponds with that? - Yes, there is one that corresponds with the ticket I have.

Court to Prosecutor, Is there any thing but these callico waistcoats, that you know of? speak to them first? - These callico waistcoats were made of my goods, being outside, I bought the whole piece of this callico, at an wholesale house in the city; and when I used it almost, to a very short length, I applied to get some more exactly of the same pattern, and tried at

every shop in the city, and at both ends of the town; but I could not get any.

Q. Was that in your shop at the time the prisoner was there? - Yes, and he had it himself in his own care; here is a piece that my clerk brought this morning, the remainder of the piece. The prisoner at the bar, told Mr. Serjeant Kirby (which I am sorry to say) that he took them.

Q. Was his examination taken in writing at that time? - We were then in the office I believe, his examination had been taken down, and then the examination was brought in; I believe the whole is my property, I have strong reason to say so; I bought fifty pieces in an wholesale house in the city, in one lot, in the month of May last, these fifty pieces were of the best match I ever saw, all of one shade or one colour. The place in my cutting shop where I keep them, there were nobody had so much access as myself, the clerk, and the prisoner at the bar; but from this room were lost thirteen pieces; the prisoner at the bar, has sold some in my workshop.

Q. Was that in your presence? - It was not, but I can produce a witness that was present.

Q. Will the witness speak to any property in this indictment? - Yes, as to the nankeen; (an apprentice of mine is in the court) but if your Lordship will please to hear me, if the gentlemen of the jury will please to look at the nankeens, which the prisoner has made up into garments, they will see if they are not all of one colour or not. Now here is a piece I have brought from home. Here is a black casimere waistcoat, the front part of it; that I verify believe has been in my shop these five years, the back part is of solicia woolen cloth.

Mr. Knapp. First of all Mr. Morrison, as to the callico, or cotton waistcoats: Which are they callico, or cotton? - Some people call them cotton, and some callico, but speaking strictly, they are callico.

Q. They are a very common pattern Mr. Morrison? - They are common.

Q. You bought a considerable quantity from a considerable warehouse in the city? - I did.

Q. There was other pieces, when you bought that of that pattern; When did you go back to that house? - It might be two months, I cannot tell to a week or two.

Q. Two months! Perhaps you had not been after this two months? - Yes, I had on an average, every week.

Q. This is so common a pattern, that many warehouses might have just the same sort of pattern; you do not mean to say, that they might not of course? - I do not.

Q. Now with respect to the nankeen; Is it English nankeen? - It is India nankeen.

Q. You are, I presume, in a considerable line of business? - As much, as that I make shift to live by what I do.

Q. You have at this time a considerable quantity of nankeen, as a taylor? - I have not.

Q. Have you any at this time? - Yes, I have a half-piece, but not of this sort.

Q. Have you bought any nankeen since you bought that? - I have not.

Q. How much nankeen had you in the house when you missed that? - I cannot say how many yards, nor how many pieces exactly; they were in the cutting shop in another room.

Q. Were they taken out regularly by the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, and myself as we wanted them.

Q. Now this black casimere waistcoat, there is nothing particular in it? - Only in the back of it, which I had the piece

in my possession for this five years.

Court to Lion. Look at the callico? - This callico, is the same piece which Mr. Morrison had in his possession, I am certain that Mr. Morrison had a peice of it in his house, and that a remnant, which no remains, corresponds exactly with it. On his examination in Queen's Square, he acknowledged it.

Court. The examination, I understand was taken in writing, therefore we cannot hear that: Can you say any thing to the nankeens? - Mr. Morrison had a great quantity of it in the house; and to my certain knowledge there were thirteen pieces taken out of his house, I have every reason to believe it is the same nankeen, they correspond with those he had in the house, and as such I believe it to be Mr. Morrison's property, they correspond in colour and quality.

Q. Now as for the waistcoat? - The back which is in this waistcoat, has been in Mr. Morrison's house, to my certain knowledge, two or three years; it is Solicia cloth, for pockets: Mr. Morrison, had several pieces of the same in his house, it is a very common cloth.

Mr. Knapp. That Mr. Morrison has lost all the property contained in his indictment, I admit; but of all this property that has been mentioned, do you mean to say, that no other taylor in any other part of the town, of eminence equal to Mr. Morrison, might not have such? - He might have such callico, and such casimere waistcoats.

Q. And every other article that is here, there is nothing peculiar to any one of the articles that is here produced; that any other taylor might not have? - Certainly not.

Prisoner. I leave every thing to my counsel.

GEORGE EGERTON sworn.

I am a taylor in Crown-street, Westminster, as to the nankeens they are common in all the shops that deal in nankeen.

Q. As to the common callico, is that a common calico or is it not? - It is made use of commonly for waistcoats.

Q. Are not all the goods in the common course of trade to be found in taylors shops? - Yes.

Q. How long have you known the prisoner at the bar? - Four or five years, he worked with me two or three years.

Q. How long ago is that? - About three years.

Q. What was his character? - A very good one; and I recommended him to my son, I never knew any thing but sobriety and honesty of him from my son.

Court. Mr. Morrison, has said that that callico is a common thing? - I cannot say with respect to the pattern.

Q. Mr. Morrison has sworn, that he and his servant has been every where enquiring for these goods, and he could not find the pattern at all: Now I ask you, whether you believe that to be true? - I cannot say as to the pattern.

Q. Then if you cannot say as to the pattern it may be uncommon? - It may or may not, I do not know that I ever saw the pattern exactly.

The prisoner called two more witnesses who gave him a good character.

GUILTY . (Aged 40.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the second Middlesex jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-35

35. WILLIAM PRIME was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 31st of October , four yards of woollen cloth value 20s. the goods of Alexander Davidson .

The indictment opened by Mr. Knapp, and the case by Mr. Fielding.

JOHN MAITLAND sworn.

Q. I believe you are a partner in the business of Maitland, Fludyer, and March? - Yes.

Q. Do you remember at any time, and when, having occasion, in consequence of a suspicion, to go to a person of the name of Brookes, a pawnbroker, in Holborn? - I went to Mr. Brookes's house on Saturday evening, the 25th of October; I went there in consequence of Mr. Rankin coming to our house. I went from the public office in Bow-street along with Mr. Townsend, and when we came to Mr. Brookes's house, he was out; but there we discovered a large quantity of cloth.

Q. What sort of cloth was it? - Red cloth; white cloth, and shag cloth. It remained at Mr. Brookes's till Monday morning. I went on Sunday and saw Mr. Brookes then, and Mr. Brookes agreed to deliver the cloth to me; I sent for it on Monday morning, I sent two servants of mine with a cart, John Wotton was one, he brought me the whole of the cloth, and the shag.

Q. Was that the same cloth that you saw the day before, and Saturday? - I presume it was the same.

Q. Where has this cloth been since? - In John Wotton 's custody, in a warehouse in Blackwell Hall

Q. Do you know how long afterwards the prisoner at the bar was taken up? - I do not know, I believe it was about the 4th or 5th of November.

Q. Did you attend at Bow-street? - I did.

Q. Did any thing pass in your knowledge there before the examination took place? Did you hear the prisoner at the bar say any thing?

Q. Brookes and Wimp both were both there? - Yes.

Q. Is the cloth here? - The cloth is in a cart at the door, locked up, and the small pieces that have been sworn to are in court.

JOHN WOTTON sworn.

Q. You are a servant to Messrs. Maitland, Fludyer and Co. - Yes.

Q. You remember being directed by your master to go to Mr. Brookes? - Yes, on the 27th of October.

Q. Where does he live? - In Holborn.

Q. What time did you go there? - About ten o'clock in the morning.

Q. When you came to Mr. Brookes did you get any cloth from there? - Mr. Brookes delivered the cloth in bags to me.

Q. Is that the cloth he delivered to you? - It is part of it.

Q. Have you had it in your custody ever since? - Yes.

- BROOKES sworn.

Q. You are a pawnbroker in Holborn? - Yes.

Q. Is that the cloth you delivered to Wotton? - yes, it was done up in bags.

Q. What you took in you delivered to Wotton? - Yes.

Watton. We have had sixteen bags in all.

Q. To Brookes. Where did you get it from? - I had it delivered to me by Mr. Wimp, Saturday noon, about twelve o'clock, great cart load.

Q. For what purpose was it delivered to you by Wimp? - About the 12th of October Wimp called at my house with a bit of red cloth and a bit of white cloth, and desired to know if I would buy any, he said, there was a great quantity of it, as much as a thousand yards; I told him it would not suit me to buy it; but I knew a gentleman of credit in the city that probably might buy it. I went to Rankin, of Change-alley, with the samples; he desired me to leave them, and he would take an opportunity of looking at them. I called on him again, he said he had not had an opportunity of looking at them; I waited on him again, and then he said, if they were as good as the samples, he would have them; he said he should like to be satisfied with a sight of them before he bought them; I told him that I should wish he should; and he appointed to be at my house the 25th of October. He saw them delivered out of the cart; he uncut one of the bags himself; he said, Brookes, you have been imposed upon, the cloth is not like the sample, and it being in small quantities they will not suit me to buy them, being small lengths and short pieces; I told the man to take them away again, as they would not suit Mr. Rankin, I had no business with them; but he would not take them again, and they were all put in my room at that time. In the evening, while I was gone to Mr. Rankin's house to tell him how I was circumstanced about the cloth, I learned that Mr. Maitland and Mr. Townsend had called at my house; I did not see Mr. Maitland till Sunday morning; I went to Bow-street after him, but I found he was gone, and at my house he was kind enough to call again

on Sunday, he said he had every reason to believe that they were his cloths.

Q. In consequence of something that passed between you and Mr. Maitland you went to Bow-street on Monday, and Wimp was there? - Yes, and the other man. Not meeting with Mr. Maitland at home, I went to Mr. Jennings, my attorney.

Mr. Knowlys. I believe there is a little part of the story does not occur to your recollection. I believe after Mr. Rankin would not buy these things; you went to Wimp to get him to take back these things? - I did.

Q. What was his conduct on the occasion? - I went a third time to his house before I could get to see him, the last time was about seven o'clock in the evening; he said, you have bought the cloths; he wanted to force them on me; he said to Mr. Townsend, mind you found them at Mr. Brookes's house, you have not found them at mine.

Q. Had you ever made any contract with Wimp to buy the things of him? - No, none at all.

Q. Did you ever intend to make such a contract with Wimp? - Never. I acted as agent; I took the sample to Mr. Rankin.

CHRISTOPHER WIMP sworn.

Mind you are upon your oath, Mr. Wimp.

Q. Look at these cloths; you had a parcle of cloths at Mr. Brookes's? - Yes.

Q. to Brookes. These are the cloths that was sent to your house? - Yes.

Q. To Wimp. Where do you live? - In White Horse-yard.

Q. You are what they call a piece broker there? - Yes.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, perfectly well.

Q. When did he bring any cloth to your house? - He brought at different times; but he brought these two sometime in October.

Q. Where did he say he got it? - From Mr. Davison, No. 1, Bedford-street, Covent-garden.

Q. For what purpose did he bring them to you? - He said they had so much measured to them, and out of that they had so many garments to cut, and by their ingenuity in laying the patterns, they could save something, and that was their perquisites. Mr. Prime and Mr. Davis said so.

Q. I am now only enquiring about Prime; if any body was in company with him, you may tell me about what they did altogether.

Q. Did he bring it to you to sell? - Yes.

Court to Wotton. How many yards are there? - Four yards in two remnants; I measured it.

Q. To Wimp. Do you know how many yards there are? - I do not; I bought a great many pieces at the same time; I know that by being cut in such a manner.

Q. You dealt with this man for some time? - Yes.

Mr. Knowlys. I take it for granted you never used to measure it? - I did measure it.

Q. Yet you cannot tell what quantity it contained? - I could at the time.

Q. You carried this to Mr. Brookes among others, and you sold them to Mr. Brookes? - Yes.

Q. You swear that, sir! -

Q. Did you hear my last question? - I do not believe I have brought the bill with me, I sold them to Mr. Brookes in this manner, he was to give me three shillings a yard for the shags and cloths, three shillings round, take the whole together,

Q. That you swear positively? - Yes.

Q. Do you know some workmen of Mr. Gilpin? - I know Mr. Allen, Mr. Gilpin's foreman.

Q. You know Mr. Casey? - Yes.

Q. You never desired them to get some cloth from their master, and you would treat them with a supper? Did you ever treat them with a supper? - I did, but not on that occasion.

Q. During that supper, did not you desire them to get some cloth from their masters? - No, I never did.

Q. For what purpose did you treat these workmen? you knew Mr. Gilpin was a taylor? - I did not know he was an army taylor.

Q. How much might your supper cost you,that you treated them with? - I cannot tell.

Q. What had you there? - I cannot tell, it cost me a guinea I believe, what there was I paid for.

Q. Now I ask you when did you receive this particular cloth now before us? - It was sometime in October last, to the best of my knowledge.

Q. You will not six the day? - I cannot.

Q. I believe they sent you to prison when you appeared at Bow-street? - Sent me to prison, for what?

Court. Were you sent to prison or not? - No.

Mr. Knowlys. Were you never in custody, was not you sent in custody to appear again as a witness? - No.

Mr. Fielding to Maitland. I do not know whether that falls within your knowledge, the value of a yard of cloth? - It is within five shillings and six-pence and six shillings the selling value; that cloth would sell for five shillings and six-pence, or better, to thy army clothiers.

Q. Is two shillings and six-pence or three shillings and six pence, any thing near the value? - It is considerably under the prime cost; there is a very small profit on things of that sort.

MUNGO SHEDDER sworn.

Q. I believe you are foreman to Mr. Davison? - Yes.

Q. Mr. Davison is an army clothier ? - He is.

Q. And he has such cloths as these. Who does he receive his cloths from? - Chiefly from Mr. Maitland.

Q. Was the prisoner at the bar a cutter in your house? - He was.

Q. Were such cloth as this what he was employed upon in your house? - Sometimes.

Q. Look at this piece of cloth; that piece of cloth is capable of being turned to many uses to your master? - Yes, certainly.

Q. Was such pieces of cloth ever considered as perquisites? - Never, there are no perquisites.

Q. You disallow all perquisites whatever; I understand you gave very large wages to this cutter? - Yes, they have twenty-four shillings a week, and eight shillings besides, and their victuals when they are very busy; they knew there were no perquisites; Mr. Wimp once called on me, that is here, to know if there were no perquisites.

Q. We must not have the conversation between you and Mr. Wimp. Have they any right in your business, or are they allowed to take any articles out of your shop? - No, none.

Q. This is the fort of cloth your master had from Mr. Maitland and Mr. Fludyer, and the prisoner was at work upon it? - He was.

Q. What is Davison's christian name? - Alexander.

Q. You keep a book, and in that book you enter the remnants that are returned? - When they have a particular size of coats or waistcoats, they go on cutting,

and to what is left, they put down a remnant left; this sort of cloth out of which dragoons cloaks are cut, in every piece of cloth there is some left, and it is converted into other purposes, we make waistcoats and breeches of it.

Court. The cloak requires a large sweep of cloth, of course? - It does.

Mr. Fielding. Is not a remnant of that size of use, so as to be capable of being converted to other purposes? - It is.

Mr. Knowlys. Has Mr. Davison any partner? - The business is carried on in the name of Alexander Davison , and I never was told Mr. Davison had any partner.

Q. How long had you known Mr. Wimp? - A few days before the man was taken up.

Q. You did not know his character before? - No.

Q. Is there any mark on this cloth by which you can identify it? - The only mark is the round circle from whence the cloak is cut, and this is the manner in which it is left.

Q. As this Mr. Wimp was a large dealer, he might have had it from other clothiers? - He might.

Prisoner. I wish to speak a few words if you please. I met Mr. Wimp frequently in the street, knowing him perfectly well, Mr. Wimp did apply to me in White Horse-yard, Stanhope-street, to get him some pieces of cloth; I told him I had no such perquisites; says I, you had better come to Mr. Sheddon about it. I never took a morsel of cloth in my life, he has accused me with it because I am a particular acquaintance of his; in fact he has asked me to supply him with cloth, but I know nothing of the cloth.

Mr. Knowlys to Mr. Sheddon. This man was continued in your employment, and, I suppose, you thought him an honest man? - That was not the case; he was not in the service at the time.

Q. Had you ever discharged him? - No, I had not, but he left my service on the 29th of October, when I had first the intelligence of the cloth being gone, and he heard of it, and left his work.

Q. I believe you found him at the house of call, where your men use? - I did.

The prisoner called two witnesses who gave him a good character.

GUILTY . (Aged. 31.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-36

36. THOMAS KILBY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 31st of October , two yards and a half of shag cloth, value 4s. the goods of Alexander Davison .

The indictment opened by Mr. Knapp, and the case by Mr. Fielding.

JOHN MAITLAND sworn.

I went on Saturday, the 25th of October to Mr. Brookes's with Mr. Townsend of Bow-street, and there I saw a number of cloths, and shag cloths; the next morning I went there, and Mr. Brookes promised to deliver them to me on Monday, when I sent Mr. Wotton and another servant, who brought them away.

JOHN WOTTON sworn.

I went on Monday morning and took them sixteen bags of red and white cloth and shags.

Q. Among those were the two yards and a half of cloth? - Yes, this is the piece here.(shewing it.)

JOHN BROOKES sworn.

You told us you was a pawnbroker in Holborn; I believe you remember Wimp coming to you? - He came to me about the middle of October, the 25th of October, and he delivered them to me, and these things were delivered to Mr. Wotton.

Mr. Knowlys. I would just ask you again, did you ever buy, or bargain to buy with Mr. Wimp, these things of him? - By no means.

CHRISTOPHER WIMP sworn.

Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar, Kilby? - Yes.

Q. Do you know of his coming to you at any time? - Several times.

Q. Do you remember his bringing any shag cloth? - I cannot particularly say when.

Q. How long ago? - It may be three months, but the particular time I cannot say.

Q. Tell us what he said about this? - He said he was a cutter to Mr. Davison, and they had such a quantity measured to them to cut so many garments, and by their ingenuity what they could leave after was their perquisites.

Q. Did you purchase any? - I did.

Q. Did you buy that piece? - I cannot pretend to say which piece.

Q. Did you buy something of the same sort? - I did.

Q. What did you give for it? - Two shillings a yard.

Q. Look at that piece and see if you can identify that piece? - I cannot.

MUNGO SHEDDON sworn.

Q. What do you know of that piece of shag cloth, is that the sort of stuff that you make use of? - It is.

Q. Do you know that piece? - No I cannot say to that.

Q. Have you any entry in your book of any particular piece of cloth that has been delivered out to that particular cutter? Do you see who made that entry? - It was made by Kilby himself.

Q. to Sheddon. Look at the cloth itself and see if there is any sort of number on it? - There is No. 341.

Q. Look if there be any entry in that book of the No.341, by Kilby, as that? - Yes, he received it to cut, and there was two thousand pair of breeches when we began cutting out, the 2d of September, and they were all made by the 2d of October.

Q. Does the entry furnish you with the date? - It does not.

Q. You found out a number on that piece of cloth that you say you have a corresponding number found in the book, entered by Kilby himself? - Yes.

Q. Were there any other sort of cloth entered with the same number? - No, not of the same number.

Court. That will not prove that the last witness received it. Kilby's entry only proves this, that of that number, that was one he had worked, but others might have took it away.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-37

37. THOMAS KILBY and JAMES FORDHAM were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 31st of October , five hundred pieces of woollen cloth, containing 1200 yards, value 200l. Sixty pieces of shag cloth, containing 110 yards, value 10l. the goods of Alexander Davison , in his dwelling house .

Mr. Fielding. There is the same difficulty in this case.

Not GUILTY .

Reference Number: t17941208-38

38. WILLIAM WHITE , ALEXANDER INNIS , ANDREW BLAKEY , WILLIAM MOUNTCASTLE , CHARLES FOX , JOSEPH THOMPSON , THOMAS KILBY and JAMES FORDHAM were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 31st of October , five hundred peices of woollen cloth, containing 1200 yards, value 200l. Sixty pieces of shag cloth, containing 110 yards, value 10l. the goods of Nicholas pearce the elder , John Pearce and Nicholas Pearce the younger , and Brice Pearce , in their dwelling house .

Mr. Fielding. There is the same difficulty in this case.

Not GUILTY .

Reference Number: t17941208-39

39. ROBERT SMITH was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 22d of October , a pair of nankeen breeches, value 12s. a pair of woollen cloth breeches value 15s. thirty yards of cotton cloth, value 18s. a muslin worked neckcloth, value 5s. two damask table cloths, value 5s. a linen table cloth, value 5s. an iron vice, value 10s. 6d. six pounds weight of cheese, value 6s. the goods of William Fitzgerald , Esq . and a linen handkerchief, value 6d. the goods of Wilson Fitzgerald , Esq .

WILLIAM FITZGERALD sworn.

Q. You are the owner of the craft called the Tilberina ? - I am.

Q. Did you ever employ the prisoner on board that craft? - He came down on the 17th of July, with a recommendation from Mr. Bristol; I took him on board the 23d, or thereabouts.

Q. How long did he continue in your service? - From that time till he was taken up, the 23d or 24th of October. It was my intention to engage him as a navigating captain; we made no agreement what I was to give him, for I wished to try him some time before I made an agreement. The person who sent him me informed me that he would be content with fifteen shillings a week.

Q. During the time the prisoner was on board this craft, did you miss any thing? - On board that vessel I missed a great number of things.

Q. Articles of wearing apparel? - Yes. I often enquired about my things, and he used to say that Sinclair had taken them, or some one else. On the 11th of October I went down to the Nore; on the Sunday I returned, but on the same day, Sunday, we took on board a boy, who is a witness. Having some thing to do on board, I stayed off Greenwich a whole week. On Saturday, the 18th of October, (I had slept there every day from the preceding Saturday) I went on shore to the Ship Tavern to get my dinner, and returned again to sleep at night, and returned to town, by the stage, the next day; when I returned again, my servant had put up a fine pair of silk stockings I saw, I suspected he might take these stockings, and before I went out I put them in such a position in the drawer, that they should not be moved without my knowing of it; I told him that I should put up every thing that I had in the vessel, and come to town; I told all that were there so; I also signified a wish that if I could be on board in time, I might see my things put up myself; when I returned from my dinner and got on board, there was a large basket, and my things were piled up in it; I asked where my cloaths were? he said they were all in that basket; and I went down into the cabbin, and my brother and he followed me; I had been down previous and looked over my drawers before, and finding no silk stockings in any drawers, I went on deck and prepared to go to town; I then asked him if every thing was there that belonged to me? they

said every thing was gone to town except these things. When I got to town, I unpacked the things, and we took the things out of the basket, spread them on the floor, and examined them; some of the articles occured to me, particularly a pair of stockings and a pair of breeches, in short I missed all the things in the indictment.

Court. Where did you lose these articles from? - From the vessel Tilberina.

Q. Where was the vessel laying when you lost them? - At Greenwich.

Q. Where was she laying when you saw her again? - In dock.

Mr. Knowlys. I think you say, that it was on the 18th of October that you missed these things? - On Saturday, the 18th of October, I left these stockings in the drawer.

Q. When did you miss them? - I missed the stockings particularly.

Q. You missed the other things before? - Yes, but I had not missed the nankeen breeches; I had missed the iron vice before, and the cheese; I then missed the woollen cloth breeches, and the linen breeches.

Q. I believe this gentleman has seen better days before now? - I have heard so.

Q. I believe you was very intimate with him, and he frequently dined with you at your table? - Yes.

Q. You told us of a boy being turned away by him? - Yes.

Q. That gave you great displeasure? - It certainly did.

Q. How long was it after the 19th of October that you directed a warrant to be taken out against this man? - It was on Monday night, which was the day after the Sunday, I found this miserable boy looking about the street, wanting to find my house, and I took him in, and the next day I ordered a warrant to be made out against this man.

Q. That was a warrant for an assault against this boy? - It was; and I ordered a search warrant at the same time.

Q. Did you execute the search warrant till the warrant for the assault on the boy was first disposed of? - I certainly did; I wanted to have him in custody at all events.

Q. I would ask you whether this person's wife did not wash for you? - She did once. I left some linen foul, on board, and she took them home and washed them, and when he acquainted me with it, I said, very well.

Q. You said, I think, that you had bargained with him for about fifteen shillings a week? - No, I did not make any bargain with him; but I understood he would be satisfied with that.

Q. I believe you paid him a very different sum? - At the time that I was at Greenwich, this very Sunday, I had left in his hands a ten pounds note, and a guinea, over and above that account that we had settled, and he had cut out a leaf of the book in which the account was; that was produced before the justice.

Q. Did you ever swear, Mr. Fitzgerald, that you owed him nothing? - I have said that I owed him nothing.

Q. Did you swear that? - If I was asked to swear it I would have sworn it, if it had been asked me.

Q. How many messages were sent to you to attend on this charge against this man from the office? - I have got the messages here. I was taken extremely ill; afterwards I received a message from the office, on the 25th of October, and I then attended the magistrate with some witnesses, and these articles, not all of them, but a great many were produced before the magistrate.

Q. He was discharged on his first examination? - No, he was not.

Q. Was he discharged at all? - He was discharged by permission of the justice

; he was not discharged in point of law.

Q. We don't want the point of law, we want the point of fact. - I will give you the point of fact. Before the justice I attended, and as I could not swear to the silk stockings, I produced the person who I bought them off, and the prisoner owned that the stockings were mine, but that they were taken by mistake.

Q. Was he discharged then? - No, a week afterwards, and I will tell you why -

Q. Tell us why? - At this time, after my property was so proved, he had made an attempt to say that his wife was washing them; I said, what washing new stockings! new breeches! and then he said that his wife had packed them up by mistake.

Court. Cannot you confine yourself to a little detail of the evidence? you are inexcusable going into these extranious matters, because you know what evidence is; you know that that is nothing at all to the case. I am very glad that every prosecutor is not a barrister.

Fitzgerald. The magistrate wished me to be merciful on account of his age; after considering sometime, I said, I am very angry now and I will not determine in anger, I will take time to consider of it; but he shall not be sent to prison; but let him be kept at the constable's house, at my expence, till I am determined in my own mind whether I will prosecute him or no.

Q. After being kept at the constable's house some time, was not he discharged out of custody? - He certainly was discharged by Mr. Staples.

Q. To shew what state of mind you was in you wrote this paper, I believe, and caused it be posted it about town? - I certainly did.

The paper read as follows;"Felony, and Shadwell police office.

Whereas, Robert Smith , late of Armitage-street, Wapping, mariner , No 47. stands charged, by a grand jury of the county of Middlesex, with divers felonies committed on the property of William Fitzgerald , Esq. and others.

And whereas, from the very strong favour and protection afforded, by the police office at Shadwell, to the said culprit, the whole of the property stolen has not been recoved; the said William Fitzgerald hereby offers, to any person holding in pawn or otherwise any such stolen property, the full value thereof, provided such person or persons shall give all legal assistance in their power towards the conviction of the said culprit and his protectors.

Whereas also, the house of the said William Fitzgerald, he being absent, was on the evening of Wednesday, the 3d of December instant, for several hours, taken possession of in the most illegal and outrageous manner, by two russians, whom he believes to be accomplices or emissaries of the said culprit and his protectors: And on Friday evening following, between the hours on ten and twelve the same persons were seen prowling about the same street, and watching the said dwelling, with intent, as he believes, forcibly to seize him, and thereby prevent his evidence, on finding the bills on the approaching trials, a reward of Ten Guineas for apprehension of either of the said russians is hereby offered by the said William Fitzgerald .

And all other persons aggrieved by malversation of the said police office, are at liberty to apply, in writing, to the said William Fitzgerald, who is resolved, whatever be the precuniary sacrifice, to bring all the parties aforesaid to exemplary justice. And, till the event of the

trial aforesaid; the said William Fitzgerald insists that no person whatever, shall without a previous account of his demand or business, attempt to enter his said dwelling house, as he is prepared, and resolved, for his protection, and necessary safety, to resist such attempt, and to put the parties so attempting to death; if he shall, for the legal purposes of such protection, find himself warranted or called upon so to do.

William Fitzgerald , Craven-street. December 1794."

Court to Fitzgerald. It appears to me from the testimony you have given already on this place, you have yourself acknowledged that you was very much out of health of body and it appears you was very much out of health of mind, from the evidence that has been last produced, and I should recommend it to you that this trial proceed no further, and then perhaps that may put an end to it.

Fitzgerald. I have said it, and do intend to prosecute the magistrate, by all legal means in my power; I have left a notice at Mr. Staples's house, that whether I should move the Court of King's Bench, or indict him as an accessary, would depend on the opinion of Mr. Erskine and Mr. Garrow. I am very ill now, I have been very ill these ten days; I desire Mr. Knapp to proceed to call my witnesses.

JOHN RILEY sworn.

Q. What are you? - I am a constable, I live in Shadwell.

Q. Did you go with a warrant to the house of the prisoner at the bar? - Yes, I did, at Blackwall, to Mr. Perry's dockyard, on board the Tilberina, a pleasure boat.

Q. You went to the prisoner's house, I believe? - Yes, on the 23d of October, in Armitage-street, near Wapping; in consequence of a search warrant I searched the lodgings of Mr. Smith.

Q. Was the prisoner at home? - No, he was then in custody for the assault.

Q. You made a search in the prisoner's lodgings; what did you find there? - I found this property. (produces the articles.)

Q. Have you had that in your custody ever since? - Yes, there are the articles I found.

Mr. Knowlys. Is this man an honest man or not? what character does he bear in that respect? - I never heard any thing of him but as an honest man.

Q. I believe you went first of all to execute the warrant for an assault? - Yes.

Q. That was before you executed the search warrant? - Yes, but on the same day.

Q. How many hours was it after? - About three hours.

Mr. Knapp. Did the prisoner know that you was gone to search his lodgings? - No, not till I came back.

Q. Had you any conversation with him? - No, not particular.

Q. Did he say any thing about the property at any time to you? - No, he did not.

THOMAS COOKE sworn.

Q. What are you? - I am a taylor.

Q. Look at these articles, and see if you know any of them? - I know these three pair of breeches, I made them for Mr. Fitzgerald

Mr. Knowlys to Fitzgerald. This man was desired to pack up your things in a great hurry? - No, he was not; my brother was with me on board at the time, and I desired him not to pack up till I came on board again.

WILSON FITZGERALD Sworn.

Q. Are you a brother of the prosecutor? - I am.

Q. Did you miss any handkerchief? - I did.

Q. Is the handkerchief there I see if that is your property? - It is.

Mr. Knowlys. I don't know whether there is any mark on it; nor I don't care much.

Mr. Knapp. I beg your pardon Mr; Knowlys. Was you present when the warrant was executed? - I was.

Q. Was you present when the things were packed up on Sunday, on board the yatch, at Greenwich? - I do not recollect seeing the prisoner pack the things up.

Mr. Knowlys. Those things were found among a great number of the prisoner's own? - I went to the prisoner's house, and there were a vast number; of things which the prisoner's wife had partly washed.

Mr. Knapp. Not Mr. Fitzgerald's things? - No. Before this time I was conscious I had lost this handkerchief, and amongst these things I searched and found this handkerchief, and in the room in which I was, was the prisoner's eldest boy, I turned my back and he ran up stairs.

Mr. Knapp. This is not evidence against the prisoner, what his boy did.

WILLIAM STAMP sworn.

Q. What are you? - I am a hosier.(a pair of stockings shewn him.) I know these stockings, Mr. Fitzgerald bought them of me in August last, and the prisoner confessed they were Mr. Fitzgerald's property at the office.

Mr. Knowlys. What did he say about confessing? - He said he took then home along with the rest of the things.

EDWARD FITZGERALD sworn.

Q. Did you go with the warrant for the assault? - I did.

Q. Did you go with the search warrant? - I did not.

Mr. Knowlys. How came you not to go with the search warrant at the same time as you went with the assault? - I was down at Blackwall at that time.

Q. Your brother, William Fitzgerald, was in a great rage about the boy having been assaulted? - Yes, he was.

Q. What did the prisoner say? - He denied that he had any of these things, before the search warrant was executed.

Court. Where was this? - On board the vessel, when he was charged with it.

JOHN BULL Sworn.

Q. What are you? - I am servant to Mr. Fitzgerald.

Q. Did you look over the articles of your master's wearing apparel? - Yes, immediately they came home, and I missed a pair of silk stockings that I had put up myself.

Q. Was you present when the search warrant was executed? - I got it executed; I asked him if he knew any thing that was missing, a pair of stockings and breeches? he said he knew nothing about them. This was before the warrant was executed, I did not see him afterwards.

Q. Did you go for the warrant for the assault on the boy? - I did.

Q. Why did not you take the search warrant out at that time? - I expected to find the things on board the vessel.

Mr. Knapp. Instead of that they were removed to his house? - Yes.

JOHN BIRTHWAITE sworn.

Q. I believe you are a linen draper? - I am.

Q. Did you sell Mr. Fitzgerald any handkerchiefs and neckcloths? - I did.

Q. Will you look at them, (shewn him.) and tell us whether these are the

things you sold him? Is there any mark on them? - There has been a mark on one that appears to be cut out, and darned over it.

Q. Do you know what mark it was? - I can tell if you give me leave to look at a memorandum I have.

Court. Do you immediately put down the mark of the property that every customer buys? - No.

Q. Then why do you do it in this instance, and not in any others? - Mr. Fitzgerald desired they might be got made and marked, and the mark I now allude to, is the initials of his name, I believe.

- GERARD sworn.

Q. Did you see the prisoner at justice Staples's office? - I did.

Q. What passed between you and him on that occasion? - He seemed very much distressed at being in that situation; he said he was an old man, and hoped I would entreat with Mr. Fitzgerald to let the matter drop, at it was a hard case.

JAMES BELION sworn.

I live in St. George's, Middlesex; I have known the prisoner sixteen or eighteen years; I have had connection with him in money and several other ways, he always bore a very honest character.

- WAITE sworn.

I never heard the smallest impeachment of his character in my life.

- DECOSTA Sworn.

I have known the prisoner fourteen or fifteen years, I never heard any thing bad of him in my life; he has been employed in shipping goods for me, on board the vessels of which he was captain; and I never found him the least dishonest.

SOLOMAN ISRAEL sworn.

I am a sworn broker for the City, I live in Goodman's-fields; I have known the prisoner twelve or fourteen years; when I first knew him he was then in the King's service; and when he was discharged, after the war, I bought a ship, on purpose to give him the command of it, knowing him to be an honest man; and he continued in my service four or five years, till I sold the ship; I trusted him with the cargo of thousands and ten thousands pounds value.

- DECASTO sworn.

I have been in habit of intimacy with Captain Smith for almost twelve months, and I can say the man's sentiments were not only honest but honourable; I knew him a reputable housekeeper in Bethnal Green.

PETER CLUNG sworn.

I am a surveyor; I live in Broad-street, Wapping; I have known him some where near ten years, he had always the character of an honest and upright man; I have had dealings with him, and I always found him so, and I know he has had property of many thousands trusted to his care.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-40

40. ROBERT SMITH was again indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 22d of October , five muslin neckcloths, value 1s. a woollen cloth waistcoat, value 1s. 6d. two pair of nankeen breeches, value 10s. a pair of nankeen trowsers, value 1l. 4s. a pair of thread stockings, value 2s. a leather cap, value 1s. 6d. a bed pillow, value 5s. a bed bolster, value 5s. a linen towel, value 6d. a tea pot, value 6d. three table knives, value 2s. three table forks, value 2s. five earthen

ware dishes, value 4s. an earthen-ware bowl, value 1s. five earthen-ware tea cups, value 1s. three earthen-ware faucers, value 6d. three shoe brushes, value 1s. two clothes brushes, value 1s. an earthenware hand bason, value 1s. a tin canister, value 6d. four pounds weight of sugar, value 1s. pounds weight of cheese, value 2s. a pack of cards, value 6d. forty fish hooks, value 4d. a ball of hemp-line, value 3d. a steel file, value 3d. a wooden ruler, value 2s.6d. three earthen-ware plates, value 6d. a pair of iron tongs, value 1s.6d. an iron shovel, value 1s. an iron poker, value 1s. a woollen blanket, value 9s. a tin japan equipage case, value 14s. 6d. six tea spoons, value 6d. an iron vice, value 5s. a tin coffee pot, value 1s. an earthen-ware sugar pot, value 1s. four wine glasses, value 2s. three cork screws, value 2s. 6d. four oyster knives, value 2s. an earthen ware hand bason, value 1s. two base metal table spoons, value 1s. a a wooden plane, value 1s. three iron hammers, value 2s. and fifty yards of hempen line, value 2s. 6d. the goods of William Fitzgerald , Esq .

WILLIAM FITZGERALD sworn.

Q. What have you to say, concerning the loss of these things? - After the discharge of the man, by the justice, on the 25th of October; on the intercession of the magistrate, I agreed with him to delay the prosecution, till I could make up my mind about it, we were before the justice on the property lately mentioned; after I had given my testimony, and the other people theirs, the prisoner being there at the time, after the evidence was heard, the clerk demanded if I was determined to prosecute; I said unquestionably, upon that the prisoner said, what, prosecute an old man with three children! yes, said, I certainly, for you will only bring them up as bad as yourself.

Court. Permit the counsel to put the questions; and you give the answers; let us all know our places.

Mr. Knapp. Now come to Sunday the 26th, when you got the search warrant? - On Sunday afternoon, I obtained a warrant to search the house, No. 47; and I proceeded to the house No. 47, Armitage-street, Wapping; the house was kept by a woman, whom I understand, goes sometimes by the name of Young, and sometimes by the name of Bolton. After the first discovery of the things being lost. I took what pains I could to inform myself what things were lost; I proceeded, and went to the house, of one Dunbar, and got into the parlour where the prisoner was.

Q. Did you say any thing to the prisoner? - I said very little to him at first, I did not wish to have any conversation with him; he began to cry, and begged for mercy, and his wife went down on her knees.

Q. What did you find there? - The constable must produce them (the goods produced) I was going to tell you, I have an inventory of the things that were on board the vessel, and many of the things were missing.

JOHN DUNBAR sworn.

Q. Did you accompany Mr. Fitzgerald with a search warrant? - I did.

Q. What did you find? - Various articles, I cannot enumerate half of them; here are five muslin handkerchiefs, &c. as in the indictment.

WILLIAM ELBY sworn.

Q. Have you the Equipage case there? - Yes.

Prosecutor. I know the Equipage case to be mine; I cannot swear to the blanket, but you will know by the witness,

how it was proved, he said it was mine before the justice; and he asked me if I had not given him this? I told him no, never; he said then I should have it again; I said that I would, but it should be by legal means. He however, admitted that the blanket and the tin case was mine.

Mr. Knowlys. I have the same character to give the gentlemen of the jury of this man, that I gave before.

Court To Dunbar. Was you present at finding all these things? - I was.

Q. Where did you find these things? - At a house No. 47, Armitage-street.

Q. Whereabouts in the house? - In the one pair of stairs room forward, some, and some of the articles were found in the two pair of stairs.

Q. Where were they? - Laying about in the room, I did not find the whole of them.

Q. Were they open? - Yes, I don't think that any of them were locked up.

Q. Did they appear to you, that they were visible to persons that happened to come in? - I think they were.

Q. For instance, if Mr. Fitzgerald had happened to come into the house, whether he would have seen the things? - Yes, I believe he might.

Prosecutor. I found this lawn handkerchief among some hair that was under the bed, I found the tea pot with a quantity of fish hooks in it, behind a bowl in the closet, on the left side of the fire place. I found all these articles that were put into the possession of Dunbar. The file drooped from a bed, from two blankets, which I was informed Smith claimed, these are dishes (taking them up) I found in the same bed-room, they were in the fire place, in which there was no grate.

Q. Open? - Yes, it may be said to be open. I left about two dozen of plates and a wash-hand bason, and some other things; but I lost so many,

JOHN BIRTHWAITE sworn.

Q. I understand, that you sold these handkerchiefs to Mr. Fitzgerald.

Mr. Knowlys. I do not deny them to be Mr. Fitzgerald's.

EDWARD FITRGERALD sworn.

Q. Did you not buy some Dutch cheese? - Yes.

Mr. Knowlys. I do not deny the Dutch cheese neither to be Mr. Fitzgerald's.

Court to Prisoner. Whereabouts does your vessel lay? - In Perry's Dock, in Blackwall.

Q. How far from the prisoner's house? - About three miles from the prisoner's house.

NOT GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-41

40. JAMES BARKER was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 19th of November , in the dwelling-house of Thomas Felsted , a bank note, value 10l. the property of the said Thomas Felsted , one gold ring, with in hair device,set about with garnets, value 3s. eight guineas in money, a pair of paste shoe buckles, set in silver, value 5s. a paste head for a hat pin set in silver, value 1s. a gold mourning ring, set with diamonds, value 15s. a ditto with an hair device, set in paste, value 7s. a ditto value 5s. a ditto value 5s. a silver box, value 1s.forty-seven a silver counters, value 10s. 6d. and a gold mourning ring,

value 5s. the goods and monies of the said Thomas Felsted .

The case opened by Mr. Leech.

THOMAS FELSTED sworn.

I am a confectioner , the prisoner at the bar came to me on the 29th of October, and left my service on the 4th of November, he pretended illness, I asked him his address where he should be found if it was necessary? he referred me to Mrs. Hunt at the Parr's Head, Islington, or Mr. Hunt a Schoolmaster, in Southgate, where he was going to be teacher.

Q. Did you lose any property in the course of the month of November? - On the 19th of November my daughter sent desiring to speak to me, and when I went up into the room, she informed me a great quantity of the goods were missing.

Q. Did you miss a considerable quantity of property? - I did, all the articles in the indictment.

Q. Do you know of any particular marks on the rings? - The initials of my wife's maiden name is on one of the rings.

Q. What did you do in consequence of missing your property? - The next morning I went to Mr. Perry's in Oxford Road, the gentleman that gave him a character. I acquainted him with what we had lost, and he informed me that the prisoner had been there, and told him that he had left my service.

Q. Did you afterwards go to the Parr's head, Islington? - I did not.

Q. Nor to neither of these two houses he referred you to? - Not till last Sunday, then I went to Mr. Hunt's, at Southgate. In the evening he sends me a letter that my suspicions were well founded.

Q. Be so good as to tell me when you saw the prisoner afterwards? - The 26th of November.

Q. For what purpose did he came to you then? - He came to me to receive a little matter that was due.

Q. What sum was it? - It would have been about five shillings.

Q. How many days did he live with you? - Six days.

Q. When he left your service did he say any thing as to wages due to him? - Then he said be lived so little a while with me, that he did not wish to be paid. I desired him to walk into the back room, and when I got him there I shut the door.

Q. What past on the 26th? - When he came to my house to receive what was due, I desired him to walk into the parlour, when I got him there, with the door shut, I taxed him with the robbery, I put it directly to him, I said, Barker, you have robbed my wife of her property, so and so, he denied it, upon which I sent for a constable.

Q. When the constable came what did you do then? - Before the constable came he had taken out of his pocket two keys, I saw him take them out of his pocket.

Q. Were they the common kind of keys? - One was a very extraordinary kind of a key, which struck me as soon as I saw it.

Q. Have you got it here? - I gave it to the constable.

Q. Was it applied to your drawer, or any place? - I did not go up stairs, I kept with the prisoner.

Q. Did you give both keys to the constable? - I did, I had him afterwards conveyed to the compter.

Q. Did you order the constable the next day to go any where after him? - I did not.

Q. Was you present at any part of the transaction? - No, the evening of that day I was informed that he had escaped out of the compter.

Q. Did you take any steps in consequence of that information? - Not any myself.

Q. Was you present afterward at any time? - On the day following I was, on

he 27th we had a hearing before Alderman Clarke, that was the first time I saw the prisoner after that, from the time he left my service, the fourth.

Q. From the time you sent him to the compter to the time of his examination before the justice, had you seen him? - I had not.

Q. Had you any conversation with him concerning any part of your property after the examination or before? - Not any, only when I taxed him with it.

Prisoner. He took the key out of my pocket himself before the constable came, and sent his wife up stairs to the drawer.

Prosecutor. I did not.

Prisoner. I never took these things at all from him, he has got the duplicates of my own property, I went to get them of him.

Prosecutor. I have not any.

Prisoner. He says that I came to him the 20th of the month, and I came to him the Wednesday after Michaelmas day, I came the 4th or 5th, and left him the 8th.

Mary Felsted . I am the wife of the last witness.

Q. Did you happen to lose any property in the course of November? - I did.

Q. State the circumstance. - I lost all the articles that are mentioned in the indictment.

Q. When did you first miss the things? - On the 19th they were all in a box, deposited in that drawer, in a chest of drawers.

Q. Did you miss them all at one time? - I did.

Q. Did you see these articles since the prisoner came in your service? - Yes, on the 30th I examined the box, they were all safe there then.

Q. Do you recollect on what day the prisoner came into Mr. Felsted's service? - I believe it was on the 29th of October.

Q. Are you sure it was before you searched the drawer to see the things were safe? - The things were safe before he, came, I know they were safe before he was in the house.

Q. Was the room in which the drawer was, a room to which the servants had access to? - They had not except on particular occasions.

Q. What room was it? - We call it a great room, It was a large room over the dining room.

Q. When did you miss the property? - On the 19th.

Q. Had you had any occasion to look into the drawer between the 30th of October and that period? - On the 2d. of November, on Sunday morning, I took out a gold watch out of the box.

Q. Did you leave the other things in the indictment behind? - I did.

Q. Did you examine? - I did not, but the box appeared as usual.

Q. When, after that, did the prisoner leave your service? - I think on the 4th I think on the Tuesday after.

Q. You missed these articles on the 19th - Yes, I did.

Prisoner. I came to you the Wednesday after Michaelmas day.

Witness. It way the 28th or 29th of, October.

Q. How many days do you suppose him to stay? - About six days, that was the utmost.

Q. What day of the week do you take the 28th or 29th to be, that he came? - I believe it was on Wednesday, I cannot exactly say, he went away on Tuesday.

JANE BALANDINE sworn.

I am servant to the prosecutor, and maid of all work.

Q. Had you occasion to desire the prisoner at the bar to attend to any particular

part of the house? - Between ten and eleven o'clock I was in the dining room, it was the 2d day of November, on the Sunday, I had been about a quarter of an hour, as nigh as I can recollect, when I thought I heard a noise up stairs, I went to the kitchen to seek this man, and he was not there, I went to the landing place and called him, and he answered.

Q. From what part of the house did he answer, as near as you can guess? - I thought his noise did not come from the cellar, which made me ask him where he was? he answered he was in the great room, I then asked him what he was doing there?

Q. Where was you at this time? - I was on the landing place. He told me he had just stepped up to look at the pictures.

Q. Was that a room to which the servants had access? - They never had any business there that I knowed of.

Q. Did the prisoner stay in the house after that, or go out? - He called me down to mind the door till I went up stairs; this was after those words passed between me and him, he went out about half an hour after that, I went up stairs when he came down, and when I came down again, finishing what I had done, he had gone out.

Q. Do you know how long he had staid out? - No I cannot say.

Prisoner. You remember that this young man and you were viewing the pictures before I went up by myself.

Court. Was there a young man with you looking at the pictures? - He was out at the time.

Q. Who is the young man that the prisoner is speaking of? - He is a servant in the house, he is a confectioner, he works along with the man in the cellar, he is a journeyman.

Q. Was that journeyman in that room at all that day? - He was in the room that day, after the prisoner had been out and come in again.

Prisoner. Did not the young man give me leave to go out? - I was not in the kitchen at the time.

Q. Was not you standing by the young man at the time when he gave me gave to go out? - No, I was making the beds at the time.

Q. How came you to find out I was in the big room? - The young man was out at that time.

Q. Who let the young man in? - I came down stairs from making my beds, and let the young man in myself.

Q. Where was I at that time? - To the best of my recollection you was on the landing, but that was after I called you out of the great room.

Q. Do not you remember that you come down and would not let me go to the door? - When I called him out of the great room, I desired him not to go to the door, because if a ring came I would go myself, and I went down and let this young man in, and I went up stairs again, and when I came down, this Barker was gone out.

Q. Will you say you was not up stairs? - Yes, after you came in again, about three o'clock.

Q. Was it not when you was viewing the pictures when I asked him leave? - No.

Q. We had not got dinner then? - You did not dine any at home that day, you dined out, and you said you dined off a goose.

THOMAS WARD sworn.

I am a constable.

Q. Did you apprehend the prisoner? - On the 26th of November, Mr. Felsted sent to me to take charge of the prisoner. Mr. Felsted gave charge of him, and at the same time gave me a key.

Q. Did he give you more keys than one? - Yes, I have got two keys, I searched the prisoner and found two duplicates besides. Mr. Felsted told me he was robbed, and that the prisoner gave him this key, and that this key unlocked his drawer, in the prefence of the prisoner.

Q. Did you apply that key to any drawer? - I went up stairs with Mrs. Felsted, and locked and unlocked that drawer where Mrs. Felsted said the things were, with this key.

Q. Was the prisoner present? - Not when I was up stairs, I then took him to the compter.

Q. Did the prisoner say any thing respecting the key? - He said it was a key that he had found I was witness when the duplicates were taken out of the woman's pocket the next morning.

Q. State how you came to go to his lodgings? - On that same day, Mr. Baldwin, at the Compter, sent to me, to know if I knew any thing of him, that same day in the evening of the 26th, I said no, I did not. They told me that he had made his escape from the Compter, and they asked me if I should know him again? I said I should, because I had a great scrummage with him in Cornhill, when he wanted to make his escape out of the coach. I was with him the next morning when he was apprehended in Frog-lane, Islington.

Q. State what happened there. What part of the house or room did you take him? - In the one pair of stairs front room, he had got up the chimney, but that was before I saw him, he was in the room when he was taken, he was very black, it was at his lodgings.

Q. What time of the day was it you took him? - About seven o'clock in the morning.

Q. Did you see him in the room? - Mr. Hillier and Mr. Baldwin were up first, I was not in the room first, he was very black when he came down.

Q. Did you make a search there? - Mr. Hillier searched the room.

Prisoner. Did you take the key of me, or from Mr. Felsted? - From Mr. Felsted.

Court to Ward. Is that a skeleton or not? - No, it is a very good key.

Q. Did you find it to open the drawer with facility? - It went rather tight, but it did lock and unlock it.

RICHARD HILLIER sworn.

I am an officer. All that I know of the business is, that after he escaped from the deputy keeper of the Compter, I went to apprehend him with other assistance, we found him in a one pair of stairs apartment in a house in Frog-lane, Islington; we broke open the door and he jumped out of bed and he endeavoured to conceal himself in the chimney, we found him however in the chimney, and we searched the room without any effect, but we searched the pockets of the woman that was in the room, and in her pockets I found a nutmeg grater, and that nutmeg grater contained some duplicates, among which was one that answered to a ring that belonged to the prosecutor, that was pawned, that one led us to a Mr. Wildman, it mentioned a ring pawned by Barker, Mr. Wildman is here, the woman seemed very much distressed about it.

Q. Did you understand that to be is wife? - I cannot say from my own knowledge.

Q. Was the woman dressed or undressed? - They were both in bed when we broke open the door.

WILLIAM WILDMAN sworn.

I am a pawnbroker as Islington.

Q. Do you know the person of the prisoner? - Yes.

Q. Did he at any time pawn any thing with you? - Yes, on the 20th of November, he brought me this ring, and said it was his own property, and that he lived at Highgate.

Q. What might you advance him on it? - Three shillings.

Q. Can you take on you to say that is the ring you received from the prisoner? - Yes.

Q. to Prosecutor. I asked you before if any particular mark was in any particular ring you lost? - That set with garnets had M.T. on it, and the date of the year.

Q. Do you know the date of the year? - No, I cannot say, it being a present I made so many years ago.

Q. Was that ring your property? - It was.

Q. to Prosecutrix. Was that one of the rings you missed? - It is.

Q. What is the value of that ring? - I cannot justly say.

Prosecutor. I valued it at three shillings in the indictment.

ELIZABETH VAUGHAN sworn.

I live with Mr. Perry and Tuff, the confectioners.

Q. Did the prisoner call at your house after the day that is stated he left Mr. Felsted? - I suppose about a week after he left Mr. Perry's; I remarked two rings on his fingers.

Q. Did you notice what kind of rings they were? - The one to the best of my knowledge, was a gold ring.

Q. Do you recollect what kind of a ring the other was? - No, I do not.

Q. to Prosecutrix. Is that a gold ring with an hair devise, set about with garnets? - Yes, it is.

Q. to Vaughan. Did you happen to see any money in his possession? - He gave me a guinea to change and I had no change.

Prisoner. I have subpoenaed three witnesses since last Monday, and I could not get them served. I was going through a church yard, there was a lady going by and I saw the ring lay, and a lady said what is this? says I, a ring for me.

Q. to Prisoner. In what church yard was this? - In Allhallows church yard, London Wall, and they sent a little boy to me at the church door, and he went and fetched the church-warden out, and he took the ring from me and kept it a week, and I left it between eight and nine days, and I went again to him, and he gave me the ring; so in the course of time, when I had pledged all my clothes, for since I have left Mr. Felsted, I have pledged every thing that I had, and I pledged this ring also, and as to the other ring I had on my finger, it was a fourpenny ring that I bought to play with some girls; if I had taken this property from him I never would have come back for any thing of my wages, I never took a hap'worth of his in my life.(A paper from the prisoner read by the clerk of the Court.)

My Lord, I am at present distressed and not able to see a counsellor, therefore humbly hope your lordship will humbly become my advocate. On the 27th of September last, as I was going along Allhallows church yard, I found the ring, which one Mr. Henly, who keeps a shop, observed; Mr. Henly told me it would be proper to leave it with the church-warden till I got an owner for it; I accordingly went and left the ring in the church-warden's possession, and I believe a week after I called at the church-warden's, and he said it was not worth advertising, and he returned me the ring, and being distressed I pledged it. I went to live with the prosecutor, and he would at first have a week's trial with me; the second day I was with him I found it would

not answer for me, and I desired him to provide himself with another in the course of a week, he said nothing then, but when he found I was going, he seemed angry, and when I was taking my things away, he said he would enquire further into my character; I told him he was welcome. In about three weeks after, being distressed and having been obliged to part with my clothes and the ring before mentioned, I went to the prosecutor, who charged me with this felony, and he took from me two keys, one of which his wife went up stairs with; and said it opened her drawers, and said she would have me hanged; I was sent to the compter, and in less than an hour after being there, a man asked me if I wanted to go out? I said, I did, and he let me go out, I went home to my own lodgings, where I was taken the next morning with a quantity of duplicates, but all my own property.

The prisoner has subpoened Mr. Beck, the church-warden, and Mr. and Mrs. Henley, to prove the finding of the ring; and as to the key opening the drawer, it is only as the circumstance happens for it is the key that belonged to the trunk of a brother in-law of his, who was killed by a fall from his horse; and became the prisoner's property. Afterwards this key was lost for some time, he was obliged to break open the lock; and sold the trunk some time after this; and the key remained in his possession. The prisoner is charged with taking bank notes; yet, it must appear to your lordship, that your lordship cannot think he could have had such property in his hands, it is plain that he pledged his cloaths, as appears by the duplicates.

Court to Prisoner. Can you prove to the taking out of the subpoenas? - Yes, I took them out of Mr. Shelton's office.

GUILTY . (Aged 27.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-42

41. JAMES GOOD , and THOMAS WILLIAMS , were indicted for burglariously breaking the dwelling house of John Atkinson , on the 3d of December , about the hour of six at night, and burglariously stealing therein, a silver watch-case, value 5s. a watch motion, value 5s. and twelve watch keys, value 3s. the goods of John Wayland .

JOHN WAYLAND sworn.

I live in Bell-alley, Lombard-street .

Q. Did you in this month lose any part of your property? - I did, on Wednesday, the 3d of December: between five and six in the evening, I had two of my shop windows broke; I lost the inside case of a silver watch, what we call a motion.

Q. Was there any thing else you lost? - Some watch glasses that was wrapped up in paper.

Q. How many were they? - About a dozen.

Q. What window was broke? - The window of my shop, I have only the lower part.

Q. What house was it? - John Atkinson 's.

Q. Was you in your shop the time these things were lost? - There was no one in the shop.

Q. Was the shop shut up? - No, it was open.

Q. Was the door open? - No, it was fast.

Q. Then, I suppose, by breaking the glass of the window, the hand was inserted through that opening into the shop? - I was not there.

Q. In what part of the shop was this motion deposited? - On a small shelf on the window.

Q. When had you last seen it? - Just before I left the shop.

Q. When had you left the shop? - Exactly at five o'clock.

Q. Was the shop shut up for the night, or had you an intention of returning? - I had an intention of returning in the course of an hour, which I did.

Q. When you returned, what did you observe? - I observed two of my windows broke.

Q. Did you observe whether you lost any part of your property? - As soon as I observed the windows broke.

Q. Was your shop near the public street? - It is about the centre of Bellalley, which is very near Lombard-street.

Q. Did you make enquiry what things were taken away? - I knew what things were taken away, when I came into the shop I missed them.

Q. Have you any reason to charge the prisoners with taking this property? - I think, I know the face of the elder; Thomas Williams , I believe his name is.

Q. Have you seen him often in your neighbourhood? - I think I have some recollection of his face, of seeing him at my window.

Q. Did you apprehend him on suspicion of this? - No, I did not apprehend him.

Q. Do you know any thing of your own knowledge to affect him for this charge? - No, I do not.

Mr. Gurney. You think you have seen that young man at the bar, looking at your window? - I think I have.

Q. What articles are exhibited at your window? - Watches.

Q. And other articles? - No, I have not.

Q. I take it for granted, you exhibit them for the purpose of being looked at? - But by seeing him there, I guessed for what purpose he looked in.

Q. You left your shop about five o'clock, no person at all to take care of it? - I left a light in a lamp.

Q. You left watches in the window? - No, I only left that which they took.

Q. You left your shop at five o'clock; how much before five do you think it was? - About five minutes past five.

Q. I take it for granted, it was not quite dark? - It was quite dark some time before.

Prisoner Good. I should be very glad to ask him, if ever he saw me about his shop in his life?

Prosecutor. I cannot say that I have any recollection of the boy .

Court to Prosecutor. As I understand you, you think you have seen the other prisoner, Williams, looking at your window in the shop, but you are not certain of that? - Yes.

Q. But whether you had or no, had you that night, seen any thing of him? - No, I had not.

Q. You took them before a magistrate, and they were committed: What foundation had you to do that? - The foundation was, that the property was found on them.

Q. Do you know that of your own knowledge? - No, it was produced to me in the course of an hour after the robbery was committed.

Q. Who is the person that proves the finding of the articles on them? - Philip Jostling .

PHILIP JOSTLING sworn.

I am a constable.

Q. Did you apprehend the prisoners, either of them? - I and the next witness that will come, did apprehend the two prisoners at the bar.

Q. Where did you apprehend them? - In Bishopsgate street.

Q. Did you apprehend them by virtue of a warrant? What was your ground? - On Wednesday the 3d of December, about seven o'clock in the evening, I and the next witness was going along Bishopsgate-street; I observed the two prisoners at the bar, standing close together; I ob

served the biggest give something into the little ones hand: I had a suspicion it was a parcel of bad money. I said to Spinoza, I will take hold of the little one, and told him to take hold of the other: I took hold of his hand and he had a sixpence in it; and the other witness said, the big one had dropped something, says he, he has dropped a watch, then says I, stop him and take him over to the Flower Pot, and examine him.

Q. Did you see any thing taken from him in that search? - Spinoza found it; I did not see the watch drop.

Q. What do you know further? - Nothing, further than finding out the owner of the watch; after I had taken him to the compter, I went and found the owner out.

Mr. Gurney. You are a constable? - I am.

Q. You are a pretty officer, employed in this sort of business; I may take it for granted, that you gave exactly the same account? - I did.

Q. That you supposed they were utterers of bad silver, and that you seized the younger boy; and that directly as Spinoza seized the elder boy , that then he dropped a watch? - Yes, I did not say that he dropped the watch, the next witness said that. I heard something drop from him, directly the next witness said he has dropped something, says he, he has dropped a watch.

Q. You said before the magistrate that you heard something drop? - I did.

Q. Now, I have that information you gave before the magistrate, and is this the whole of it; Is this your hand writing? - It is.

Q. Here is nothing of that in it; I believe their commitment was for a larceny? - It was.

Q. By whose advice was it that they were indicted for a burglary? - It was my advice.

Q. You know there is such a thing as a forty pound reward? - Most undoubtedly I do.

Q. And where you can have that forty pounds reward you indict them for a burglary? - I do for my duty to the public, and myself, sir, as you do.

Q. Don't you expect to receive a part of that reward, if these mens lives are sacrificed? - I expect to receive a part of that reward, if the court allows it; I dare say you would not plead, if you was not paid.

JACOB SPINOZA sworn.

Q. Are you a peace officer? - No.

Q. Was you on the 3d of this month an assistant with Jostling? - I was.

Q. How came you to be engaged on that service? - I went along with him to Bishopsgate-street, on Wednesday night, about seven o'clock; and I saw the two prisoners at the bar standing together; and the one, named Williams, was giving something to the other named Good, what it was, I could not tell. Mr. Jostling laid hold of Good, and I laid hold of Williams and searched him; taking hold of him, I observed he had something in his hand, as soon as I took hold of his hand, I see him drop something; and I said Jostling he has dropped something, it is a watch; Jostling says, let us take them over to the Flower Pot, In Bishopsgate-street, he made a scussing, so that it was as much as I could do to take him over to the Flower Pot ; in searching him, I found a knife about him; and then I took him to the Compter.

Q. You had taken up the watch before you searched him? - I had.

Q. Was it an entire watch, or only part of it? - It was part of a watch, but when it dropped on the ground, it appeared as a whole watch.

Q. It is a watch case? - It is a silver watch inside case, I believe.

Q. Did you find any watch movement? - No; I found nothing at all on him, excepting a knife. After we took them to the Compter we went to the City Arms, in Lombard-street, to have a pint of porter, and tried to see if there were any marks on the watch, and we could not open it, and we asked the landlord whereabouts a watch maker lived.

Mr. Gurney. You must not tell us that.

Court. You found out at length that the prosecutor of the indictment had left a watch or watch case? - I did, the same night.

Q. Was he brought to the presence of the prisoner? - He was not, he saw him the next day before the Lord Mayor.

Q. Did any thing pass material to give evidence? - No further then Mr. Wayland saying that he had his windows broke the night before.

Mr. Gurney. I will thank you to tell me a little over again what you told his lordship just now. You found Good and Williams standing near together, see one deliver something into the others hands; what it was you could not tell? - Yes; then Mr. Jostling took hold of one prisoner and told me to take hold of the other; consequently I did, and when I went to take hold of his hand he dropped something; says I, jostling, he has dropped something.

Q. You was before Mr. Alderman Boydell? - I was, on Monday.

Q. Did you give an information there? - I did.

Q. Is not that your hand writing, that signature? (the information shewn him) - It is.

Q. You gave exactly the same account as you do now? - I did.

Q. And you told him that you found a knife? - I did.

Q. Let us see the knife. It is not a common bread and cheese knife, as any body may have? Pray, sir, what has been your employment? - I am a confectioner by business.

Q. He that seen your employment? - No, I go out to assist Mr. Jostling.

Q. You have assisted, I believe, a considerable time in this sort of way. How long have you assisted him? - About six or eight weeks.

Q. You have gone with a good many men? - I cannot say.

Q. Will you tell me that? Was not you in some employment of this sort six or eight months ago? - No.

Q. Was not you removed from some employment of this sort by my Lord Mayor? - No.

Q. Was not you, on account of a little suspicion of your extorting six guineas from a man for putting off bad money? - No, I was not.

Q. How long have you been employed by one person or another in taking up persons? - About six or eight weeks, with Mr. Jostling.

Q. How long have you been employed by any other person? - Not at all. only going with him, as I told you before.

Q. How long? - I cannot rightly tell.

Q. Three years? - It may be three years or four years, it may be later, or it may be sooner.

Q. Did you ever hear of such a thing as a reward? - I have.

Q. I dare say you could guess to the amount of it, if you was to try? - I don't know that I could. What reward do you mean? I don't know what you mean by reckoning.

Q. What, pray, may the amount of the reward be? - According to a man's desert.

Q. What amount may be the reward for a man convicted of burglary? - Forty pounds.

Q. Then if there are two, there are two forty pounds? - There may be so.

Q. I dare say your motives are of such a public spirit that you don't expect any share of the reward if the men are convicted? - I do expect some share according to my merit.

Q. Was you along with Jostling, and concerned with him in advising this indictment for a burglary? - No otherwise than the robbery was committed, he indicted it as it ought to be.

Q. These two young men were not committed for a burglary? - I cannot say; I believe, according to the evidence we gave, it was a burglary.

Q. I ask you this, whether you was assisting Mr. Jostling in advising an indictment for a burglary? - No, I did not advise at all.

The information read.

The information of Philip Jostling , who, on his oath, says, That on Wednesday evening, about the hour of seven, he observed James Good and Thomas Williams standing together, &c. and the informant, Spinoza, on his oath says, that he was with Jostling, and on his going up to the prisoner Williams, he dropped the inside case of a watch, and part of a watch movement, now produced, &c.

(The watch case produced.)

Prosecutor. It is mine; I know it by the dial plate, and I have the work in this box that belongs to it, it exactly sits; it is an unfinished watch; I can swear it is my property.

Mr. Gurney. It appears to be a very common sort of a watch? - It is a common one, it is a watch that can be sold as cheap as three guineas and a half, when it is finished.

Q. There is nothing at all remarkable that a movement should go on four points like this? - Yet it would be very remarkable if you could find another; you might try five hundred and not do it.

Prisoner Good. I never saw the young man, Williams, in my life, before I was taken up, and put along with him.

Prisoner Williams. I don't know any thing of the prisoner at the bar, I never saw any thing of him before I was taken into custody with him; when the two gentlemen came up they said they heard something drop from some body, they did not know who; and they swore when they were before the Lord Mayor, that nobody was passing at the time; when it is as public a place as any in London at seven o'clock at night.

The prisoner Williams called one witness, who said, he never heard any harm in his character.

Jostling. Please to ask this person if Williams was not discharged from the New Bastile the night before I took him.

Thomas Williams , GUILTY, Of stealing, but not of the burglary .

(Aged 20.)

Transported for seven years .

James Good , Not GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-43

42. WILLIAM DARBY , WILLIAM COLLINGS , and JOHN YOUNG were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 19th of November , fifteen linen sheets, value 1l. 5s. six linen shifts, value 12s. six plated handle table knives, value 1s. 6d. and six plated handle forks, value 1s. 6d. the goods of Moses Joseph .

JOSEPH JOSEPH sworn.

Moses Joseph is my father, he keeps a shop . On the 19th of last month I was sitting in the parlour, there came a woman knocking at the door, she gave a double knock, and we came out; and I came out and observed the shop window up, and best part of the linen that lay near that place was gone; fifteen shirts in the whole, and six or seven linen shifts, half a dozen plated handled knives and forks, and one half shawl; I made enquiry to all the shops near, and I was gone about half an hour and returned. In the mean while some people informed my father that the things were at the office, of course my father went there.

Q. Do you know any thing of the prisoner at the bar taking these things, the linen? - No.

SAMUEL JACOBS sworn.

On the 19th of November, between the hours of seven and eight, a person came and desired I would shew him some articles, and jackets; I am in the slop line; I shewed him some, we disagreed for the articles, he bid me some money for them I could not take. After he had gone out, I had not a good opinion of him; I told him he should come back and take the articles, as I went after him to call him back, I saw the transaction at my neighbour's.

Q. How far is Mr. Joseph's house from your's? - About twenty yards at the other side of the way. I observed Mr. Joseph's window up about half way, and I saw the young man, Williams or Collings they call him, with his arm in the window; I ran home immediately, and said to a gentleman that was at my house from Portsmouth, Mr. Joseph's house is being robbed, I know the prisoner very well. About two years ago I was coming from Stepney-fields, and I saw a great mob of people-

Q. Is the prisoner that man you saw at the window? - I am sure of it; I have known him these two years. My servant and Mr. Hendon immediately went out; my servant's name is Hannah Steele .

Q. You did not yourself go out? - I did not.

Mr. Knapp. This is an offence of a capital nature, for burglary? - Very well, sir.

Q. You come here to answer questions and not to be impertinent? - I come here to speak the truth.

Q. And I trust you will speak the truth? - Very well.

Q. The commitment is for a capital offence, for burglary? - I know nothing of that.

Q. Did you attend the magistrate? - I did, I was forced to attend the magistrate.

Q. Then the commitment you don't know what it was for? - I do not.

Q. You don't know it is for burglary? - I do not.

Q. Do you know what the prisoners are indicted for now? - I do not.

Q. You know you stated that you saw Williams's arm into the window? - Yes, I did.

Q. Do you know what the offence is? - No further than house breaking.

Q. Then you know there is a reward on house breaking? - No, I don't know any thing of the kind, no further than reading in the paper; I have heard of a reward.

Q. What time of night was this? - Between the hours of seven and eight, the 19th of November.

Q. Was it moon-light? - No, it was not moon-light.

Q. What place was this in? - Ratcliffe-highway .

Q. A good many lamps there? - I did not observe particularly the lamps, there was light enough to observe the prisoners.

Q. Is Ratcliffe-highway lighted or not? - I make no doubt but what it is lighted in several parts, in all parts I believe.

Q. What was the time of the night? - Between seven and eight?

Q. Was it darkish? - Yes.

Q. In November you know? - Well.

Q. How far was you from Mr. Joseph's house? - Close by the window.

Q. Being so dark, and without any lamp do you mean to swear that Williams was there? - Yes, I do.

HANNAH STEELE sworn.

I live with the last witness's mother. On the 19th of October last, between seven and eight in the evening, Samuel Jacobs came in, and said, Mr. Joseph's house was being robbed; I ran out, and went over to the house, and I saw the prisoner in the middle (Collings) with his hand in the window, and the window was about half a foot up; I saw him take out something white, but what it was I cannot say.

Q. You are sure it was the prisoner? - I am certain of him.

Q. Had you known him before? - I had not.

Q. Did it appear to be linen of any kind? - It appeared to be white linen; I went directly to the door, and knocked at the door, to let Mr. Joseph know of their being robbed; the two doors being shut, they did not come immediately to open the door, but when he see me be ran away, I never see him again till I see him the next day before the justice, and there I fixed on him among them all.

Q. Had he been pointed out to you? - Not at all.

Mr. Knapp. How long have you been servant to Mrs. Jacobs? - About five months.

Q. You are not of the same persuasion with them? - I am not.

Q. What is Mr. Jacobs? - A watch maker and slop seller.

Q. Is he any thing else? - Nothing else.

Q. So Jacobs came home? - Yes, he came home, and with these words, that the jew over the way was being robbed, and I was frightened, and ran out.

Q. So being alarmed, and frightened to death, you ran into the way of it. There were lights about Joseph's house? - Yes.

Q. Lamps? - Yes, there is a lamp at the corner, and lights of each side of his house, and a lamp opposite, it was as light as day.

Q. Stay then; it was as light as day? - It was light enough that I could discern the prisoner, to take notice of his person.

Q. We will talk about that by and by. There were lights about? - Yes.

Q. Then if any body has stated that there were no lights about Mr. Joseph's house, according to your evidence it cannot be true? - There were lights; Ratcliffe-highway is always lighted.

Q. Let us see a little about the prisoner Collings; you never see him before? - Never see him before.

Q. You went out considerably frightened and alarmed? - I went out with intention of alarming the people.

Q. This was the 19th of November; when did you attend the magistrate's? - The next day.

Q. Now you say these prisoners were the only persons that were brought up at that time? - Yes, the only ones that were at the bar at that time.

Q. You did not see them at the justice's till they were brought up to the bar? - No.

Q. You have had no conversation about this business since you was at the justice's? - No, I have not.

Q. The subject of this felony has never been introduced in discourse? - Not to speak about it materially, it may be said that we shall have to attend.

Q. Perhaps it may have been said that when you was to attend, you was to be sure to say that you recollected Collings? - No.

Q. You have never said so to Jacobs? - I never converse with my master.

Q. How long have you been attending? - Ever since Monday; now it is Thursday.

Q. Why you have been with Mr. Jacobs and Mr. Joseph, and Mr. Solomans? - There is no Solomans in it.

Q. You have been talking on the subject, have not you? - It might be mentioned.

Q. Has not Jacobs said, mind you swear to Collings, or be sure that Collings is the person? - On my oath he never said any thing of the kind.

Q. You never heard of a reward? - No, I never heard of a reward depending on it, I did it for the good of the people.

AGUMPART HENDON sworn.

On Wednesday, the 19th of last month I was at the house of Mr. Jacobs, in Ratcliffe-highway; I drank tea there, and after tea we were sitting talking, and suddenly, the witness, Mr. Jacobs came in, in a kind of a fright, signifying that there were robbing his neighbours; he said they were robbing the shop over the way; in consequence of that I went out, following Mrs. Jacobs's servant, she went before me; when I came across the way, there is a public house next to the shop that was robbed; I saw the prisoner, which answers to the name of Young; he seemed as if coming from there; as I knew the shop was robbed, I took that notice of him, supposing him to be concerned with it, his bosom appeared to be full, with some shirts or shirts, it appeared very full. Mr. Jacobs's servant by this time was at the door, knocking at it, and I came up to her; it was some little difficulty before we could make them hear in the house inside, I perceived the window was open of the shop, it seemed to be a kind of a sash window; when we gained admission we found that they were inside of the parlour, which had a separate partition to it, and the door of that parlour was shut; the young man, an old man, and little girl, they all exclaimed with a great surprize.

Q. Did you see any thing of the prisoners? - I met Collings with the appearance of something in his breast, it appeared to be one or two shirts, it was white; but during the time I was knocking at the door, I observed one of them coming up to the door again, and on the maid saying here they come again, he turned off again.

Mr. Knapp. You say you see something peeping out from the breast, it might be an handkerchief or a shirt? - It was to appearance, one or two shirts, by the resemblance on the breast.

Q. You have heard that the part of the charge is stealing shirts? - Yes.

Q. Supposing any thing of bulk enough to have the same appearance, would you attempt to swear at about eight o'clock at night, merely by his passing you, that that was shirts, any more than it might be any thing of the same sort of bulk? - I do not say it was shirts, but I had every idea of thinking it was shirts.

Q. Supposing it had been shirts, would you have known the difference? - I cannot swear it was shirts, I can only say it was the appearance.

Q. So, whether he had shirts, pocket handkerchiefs, or any thing else, you cannot say; you did not know Young before? - No, never in my life, either of the prisoners.

Court. Are you sure that person that passed you was Young? - I am very sure of it.

Q. Had you seen him previous to the time? - Never in my life, that I know of, I am a stranger here, I live at Portsmouth, seventy-two miles from here.

Q. How long had you an opportunity of observing of his countenance when he passed you from the public house? - He did not come out of the public house, but his passing by the light of the passage in the public house, it gave me an opportunity of seeing him distinctly; I identified him immediately at the office.

Mr. Knapp. Whether you will swear to him now? - Yes, I will, as far as a man can with certainty.

Q. Every man is liable to mistake. - Certainly; I see an instance of that at the office that night I was there.

Court. I remember I tried three persons for a robbery and burglary and at the house of justice Penleaze, Mrs. Penleaze swore positively against two of these persons; there were six of them indicted at different times; all the opportunity she had of swearing to them, was, when she put aside the bed clothes, to enable her to breathe, and from that aperture she swore positively to these persons, the consequence of which was, the jury found them guilty of the robbery; I was not at all satisfied with the verdict, and I respited their execution, and it was from time to time postponed, until the six persons that had committed this robbery, were taken up for another offence, at Chester, and they were committed; and they confessed that they robbed this first house. Now that woman in that situation, swore positively to their persons, and she had an opportunity of observing their faces for a quarter of an hour, or thereabouts; and it was afterwards found that she was mistaken, and their lives were spared; here you had not the opportunity of observation that this woman had, and yet you positively swear that this was Young, that past you with something in his breast, but whether it was or no, it does not follow, that he had in his breast any part of this property.

ELIZABETH BOLTON sworn.

I went to Mr. Josephs on Wednesday night, between seven and eight o'clock; and as I was crossing over the way I saw two young men at the window as if they were looking at the shew glasses; I went and stood by them a little time, and then I knocked at the door, and went in to deliver some clean clothes, and get some dirty ones; while I was up stairs, I heard the child say, mammy, we are robbed; when I came down stairs Mr. Joseph said he was robbed of between three and four pounds worth of goods. I went home with my dirty linen, and I see no more that night; the next day I went to the justice's at Goodman's-fields, and I looked about, and I said this is the young man that stood at the window last night, only he had a red waistcoat on; and they said he has got it on now, but he has tucked it in.

Q. You see him take nothing? - No, nothing.

Mr. Knapp. I don't wish to look at you any more; good night to you.

HANSON sworn.

I apprehended the prisoners, I know nothing at all about the robbery.

JOSEPH BARE sworn.

I know nothing more than apprehending the prisoners.

All three Not GUILTY .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.

Reference Number: t17941208-44

43. SAMUEL PLATO was indicted for feloniously stealing, one bed made of flocks and feathers, value 9s. one flock and feather bolster, value 1s. one linen sheet, value 2s. the goods of William Young ; two linen shirts, value 4s. a pair of cloth gaiters, value 1s. a pair of plated buckles, value 1s. the goods of James Firman .

WILLIAM YOUNG sworn.

I keep a chandler's shop , in Pye-street, Westminster, some of this property belongs to me, and some to James Firman .

Q. Where did you lose your property from? - Out of Duck-lane .

Q. How did you lose your property from thence? - My lodger lost it from a ready furnished room.

Q. Flock and feather bed and sheet, these articles were your property? - Yes.

Q. To Firman. Were they your property? - No, they were his.

Q. To Young. To whom did you let this lodging? - To Susanna Holloway , with all the property.

SUSANNA HOLLOWAY sworn.

I lodged in the house, and I washed for James Firman , I have washed for him since my husband went abroad.

Q. What is he? - A soldier belonging to the 3d regiment of guards.

Q. Did you lose any shirts? - Yes, two shirts and two pair of cloth gaiters.

Q. Here is only one mentioned in the indicted? - We lost two pair, and one pair of buckles.

Q. Were they plated buckles? - Yes, and two pair of stockings.

Q. There are no stockings mentioned in the indictment.

Q. These shirts, did they belong to James Firman ? - Yes, he brought them the very afternoon of the robbery, he brought them and put them in a box with the shirts.

Q. Where is he? - He is here.

Q. In what manner did you miss these things? - About half after nine o'clock on Sunday night, I found my door open when I returned.

Q. How did you find the house, was it broke open? - I found the door wide open.

Q. Were these things locked up in the box, or only put in the box? - Only put in the box, they were gone when I returned, I never see them since till I found them in this Plato's room.

Q. How soon did you see them after they were missing? - The same night.

Q. What time? - I cannot positively tell what time I saw them again.

Q. Did you know them again? - Yes.

Prisoner. The witness is just come out of Tothill-fields Bridewell.

Witness. Yes, I have.

Court. What was you sent there for? - I cannot tell, I was coming home, and I was put there, I was there three days, and the justice sent me his discharge now.

Prisoner. She was taken up as a common vagrant.

Court to Witness. Is all you have said true? - Yes.

JAMES FIRMAN sworn.

Q. Are you a soldier ? - Yes.

Q. Do you know a woman of the name of Holloway? - Yes.

Q. Did you carry any thing to be washed there? - Yes, two shirts.

Q. Where does she live? - In Duck-lane.

Q. Is she a single or married woman? - A single woman;

Q. Has she a soldier for her husband? - No.

Q. Has she a husband gone abroad? - No.

Q. How long has she washed for you? - Six months.

Q. You say she has not a husband abroad? - Not that I know of.

Q. Did you leave any thing in her room? - Yes, two shirts, two pair of stockings, and two pair of gaiters.

Q. Any thing else? - No, nothing else.

Q. You are sure you left nothing else? No buckles? - No, not that I know of.

Q. Here is a pair of buckles mentioned in the indictment? - Not that I know of.

Q. You must know? - I do not know that I left any.

Q. Where were the things put when you left them? - I put them in a box.

Q. What day of the week was it? - I cannot tell what day of the week.

Q. Do you know whether the house was broke open? - I was not at home when the house was broke open.

Q. Did you hear of it? - I heard of it on the Monday, and it was broke open on the Sunday.

Q. How came you to see your things? - I never saw the things afterwards.

Q. Have you seen them from that time to this? - No.

Q. Have you never seen them at a pawnbroker's nor heard of them since? - No, I have heard they were lost and I have never seen them since.

ROBERT GREENHILL sworn.

I am a watchman, I was calling the hour of half past ten o'clock at night, the 9th of November, and William Young called me and informed me that the house was broke open.

Q. What day was it? - The 9th of November, I cannot say what day of the week, it was, William Young called me and informed me one of his rooms were broke open, I saw Holloway standing before me, and I asked her if she saw any body standing by the place? and she said she saw the prisoner at the bar standing by.

Q. What did you do afterwards? - I went to his lodgings, and there I found one sheet, a pair of buckles, the shirts is marked with the colonels name on it, and the sheet is marked W. I. at one corner.

Q. Two shirts, one sheet, and one pair of plated buckles? Any thing else? - No.

Q. Any gaiters? - No.

Q. Were they plated buckles? - Yes, plated on iron.

Q. When you found these things were they tied up? - No, loose, and laying by the bed side, I says to him where is the bed and bolster? he said, if you will be easy and quiet I will shew you where these things are, he took me under a gateway and I found them there under the gateway, all in the soil, it is the back way to the Cooper's arms in Duck-lane.

Q. Did you bring the things away? - William Young shewed me the bed, and I took charge of him, William Young took the things up out of the gateway.

Q. Who took the other things? - Mr. Hardy, the constable.

JOSEPH HARDY sworn.

I am a constable of St. John's; they called me out of bed, and I went with them to take the prisoner.

Q. What did you find? - A sheet, two shirts and a pair of plated buckles; I asked the prisoner if he knew any thing about the bed? he said it was in a passage in Duck-lane; I asked him to go and shew me where it was, and he did.

Q. Have you kept all the things? - No, the watchman has kept them, they have been in the watchman's possession ever since.

Q. to Greenhill. He says you took them to the watch-house? - I carried the sheets and the shirt to the watch-house.

Q. What has been done with them? - They are all here.

Q. I want to know what has been done with them since? - I took them home to my lodgings.

Q. And you produce them now? - Yes.

Q. Produce the shirts now, and let the soldier stand up. James Firman .

Q. to Firman. Look at the shirts, Firman; and see whether you can speak whether they are your shirts? - Yes, they are my shirts, there is my own name on them.

Q. Are they your buckles? - Yes they are, I did not know whether I left them there, or whether I had them at the barracks.

Q. You are sure they are your buckles? - Yes.

Prisoner. I was coming home, and I stopped at the corner of the gateway to make water, and I saw these things lay altogether, and I took them up, to give to a person I saw then up the gateway, close by the side of the wall.

Q. Have you any witnesses for that? - No. The watchman was off his bear, and I stopped to see him pass, and before I could see him, these men came up and took me, I told them if they would be quiet I would shew them where they were, I immediately told them so, and I took them to shew them where the bed was.

GUILTY . (Aged 21.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-45

44. JOHN SMALL was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 8th of October , a man's cloth coat, value 1s. 6d. cotton shirt, value 8d. a cotton shawl, value 4d. the goods of Thomas Harrop .

THOMAS HARROP sworn.

I am a weaver .

Q. Do you keep a house, or are you a lodger? - A lodger.

Q. Did you lose a cloth coat? - Yes, on Wednesday night, the 8th of October.

Q. Was you at home? - No.

Q. Was your wife at home? - Yes, and my son.

Q. Did you see the man take it? - No.

Q. When did you see it in his possession? - We moved that week, and he came on the Monday after into our shop to buy a shirt, and had the coat on his back, I knew the coat again.

Q. How long was that after you had missed it? - The Monday following; my wife knew him, and then I took him to a justice.

Q. Do you keep a shop? - Yes, we sell a few old clothes, we keep a few in the window.

Q. Did you see the coat on him? - No.

Q. Did you take it from him? -

Q. Did you take it from him before a magistrate? - Yes.

Q. Did your wife take it from him? - No, it was taken off before the justice.

Q. You was present when he was taken before the justice? - Yes.

Q. What was done with the coat? - The officer gave it to us to take care of it.

Q. Who took it from him? - The officer.

Q. What was his name? - I do not know his name, his name was Howel I believe.

Q. Who has kept the coat from that time to this? - We have kept it.

Q. Did you ever see your cotton shawl again? - No, I was not at home when the things were took away, my wife was.

ANN HARROP sworn.

I am the wife of the last witness.

Q. Did you lose a coat at any time? - Yes.

Q. Were was it lost from? - From the shop, I keep a little shop.

Q. Did you see him take it? - No.

Q. What else did you miss? - A shirt and handkerchief.

Q. What they call a shawl? - Yes, a very old one.

Q. Have you ever seen the shirt and shawl since? - No.

Q. Did you ever see the coat again? - Yes, he came with the coat on his back.

Q. Where did you remove to? - Into Brick-lane.

Q. How far is that from the place you removed from? - I removed from Wheeler-street, near Brown's-lane, Spitalfields.

Q. How far is that from where you lived before? - About a quarter of a mile.

Q. Did you know the coat again? - Yes, the prisoner had it on his back.

Q. What did he come in about? - He came in and a tall woman with him, he asked if I had a coat to sell, and I said this is my husband's coat and it is not to sell, and he was no sooner out of the room but he came in again and asked me if I had any stockings to sell? I said, yes, and while he was looking at them he asked me if. I had no waistcoats to sell? I said, yes, and he pulled off his coat and threw it on the bed, and threw his waistcoat off and ran out in his shirt sleeves: I said how odd it looks to run out in his shirt sleeves, I said to my little boy I hope he has not took your father's coat, and I looked and saw the coat was gone.

Q. You are now talking of Wheeler-street? - Yes, he took the coat out of Wheeler-street, Spitalfields.

Q. When did you see the coat again? - Better than a fortnight, and then he came in the other shop and asked me if I had a shirt to sell? I said, yes, I said to my husband bring a light, and then my husband brought a light, and I saw that coat on his back.

Q. What was done with the coat? - The officer made him pull it off, and the officer gave me the coat and I have kept it ever since.

Q. Have you found the other things? - No.

Q. Produce the coat, (the coat produced.)

Prosecutrix. It is tore all to pieces in the time he has had it.

Q. Is that your coat? - Yes

Q. How do you know it? - I bought it of my son that has been dead some years.

Prosecutor. This is the coat indeed, I took the cape off about six or seven months ago.

Q. Then the cape was left behind? - Yes.

William Harrop . Q. Have you ever been sworn? - Yes, the gentlemen swore me at the justice.

Q. What will become of you if you swear falsely? - I shall go to a bad place.

Sworn.

Q. Do you know the young man at the bar? - Yes, that is the man that came, and he pulled off his coat and he came in along with a woman and asked if we had any stockings? and this man asked if we had any waistcoats? he pulled off his coat and threw it on my daddy's bed, he asked the woman if she had sixpence? and directly after the woman went out and he went out and took up his coat and said he would he in again; after he was gone my mammy said, sure he has not took your daddy's coat, and directly after he was gone out she looked and my daddy's coat gone.

Q. Did he leave his coat? - No, he took his own coat and my daddy's too.

Q. Are you sure that is the lad? - Yes.

Q. Was you at home when he came back to your mother's house? - Yes.

Q. Did you see how he was dressed? - Yes, he came in with my father's coat on.

Q. How long was that after? - He came on the Monday after, and this was on Monday, and he had it on his back and then he was taken.

Q. Was he stopped then? - Yes, sir, my mammy stopped him then and the officer made him go with him.

Prisoner. I never was in the shop before in all my life. The coat I bought in Rosemary-lane of a Jew woman; I never was in the shop before in my life; I bought the coat and gave 3s. 6d. for it.

GUILTY . (Aged 17.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-46

45. JOHN HALL was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 11th of November , twenty-six pounds weight of fat, value 6s. and a yard of canvas, value 1s. the goods of William Williams .

WILLIAM WILLIAMS sworn.

I am a butcher .

Q. Are you a housekeeper? - Yes.

Q. Where do you live? - In Shadwell .

Q. Were you robbed of any sat? - Yes.

Q. Was the prisoner a servant? - No.

Q. How did it happen? - On Tuesday the 11th of November, about a little before six o'clock in the morning, this fat was in a basket, so I took it out of the basket and put it in a cloth.

Q. Is it canvas? - No.

Q. You have stated in the indictment that it is canvas; is there any canvas about it? - No, I tied it in the cloth and there I left it, and I did not come home till eleven o'clock that day.

Q. Was this place locked up or not? - The shop was not open when I went out.

Q. Did you leave your servant in the shop? - Yes.

Q. When was it taken away? - It was about three o'clock in the afternoon before I missed it.

Q. Did you ever find it in the hands of the prisoner? - When I came to Mr. Bridgeman he told me he had stopped it and sent it to the justice's office.

Q. Do you know it to be yours? - Yes, they asked me what sort of fat it was I had lost? and I told them.

Q. Has it been kept or thrown away? - Mr. Bridgeman had it before the magistrate.

Q. Did you see the cloth that it was in? - Yes.

Q. Do you know the weight? - No, I guessed at the weight of it.

Q. Did there appear to be the same quantity? - Yes, it was the inside fat of a bullock.

Q. Was there any thing else that you can swear the sat to be yours by? - No.

Prisoner. Ask him if he can swear to the cloth, there is no mark on it.

Prosecutor. There is no mark on the cloth, and it was not hemmed, it was just as it came out of the linen draper's shop, only dirty.

- BRIDGEMAN sworn.

I am a tallow chandler; about seven o'clock in the morning the prisoner brought a lot of sat to sell on the 11th of November, and I looked at the sat.

Q. Were do you live? - In Cannon-street road, commonly called the Newroad.

Q. How far is that from the prosecutor's house? - More than a quarter of a mile.

Q. What was it brought in this cloth? - Yes, I looked at the fat and I looked at the prisoner, and I thought it was not got honestly by.

Q. What sat was it? - The fat from the inside of a bullock. I asked him whose sat it was? - he said it was Mr. Wright's in Ratclisse-highway; I gave him to understand that I would send to Mr. Wright's, he then said he found it, I sent for an officer and gave charge of him.

Q. Did you ever shew it to the prosecutor, Mr. Williams? - I gave charge of him to Dunbar, the officer, and in the course of the day it went to Mr. Staples, and it was kept there till it was enquired about.

- DUNBAR sworn.

I am an officer.

Q. Did Mr. Bridgeman give you the care of the sat? - Yes, it was in the morning he gave me charge, and I staid till eleven o'clock at Shadwell office.

Q. What was done with the sat, was it kept? - No, I believe not.

Q. What was done with the cloth? - Mr. Bridgeman took the cloth by order of the magistrate. (The cloth produced.)

Q. to Prosecutor. Look at the cloth, are you sure that is the cloth? - Yes.

Prisoner. The prosecutor said the cloth was two yards and a half.

Q. to Prosecutor. Mrs. Williams did you say so? - No, nothing like it.

Prisoner. I was going to work at Ratcliff highway, where the great fire was, and I found it in the highway, and I was going to take it to the tallow chandler's, I did not know what to do with it any where else.

GUILTY . (Aged. 21.)

Imprisoned one month in Newgate , and publickly whipped .

Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECODER.

Reference Number: t17941208-47

46. ANN LOCK was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 29th of November , a pint pewter pot, value 13d. the goods of Bazil Adnett .

BAZIL ADNETT sworn.

I keep the Horse-shoe, Westminster ; I lost a pewter pot on Saturday the 29th of last month, it was found on this woman, but I cannot tell how I lost it.

SAMUEL WOOD sworn.

I keep the sign of the Red Hart, Westminster; I followed the prisoner on suspicion the 29th of November last, about nine o'clock in the morning; when I first see her she was in Market-street, Westminster, very near my house, I followed

her into St. Margaret's Churchyard and there I stopped her. When I stopped her I asked her what she had, says I, My dear, I believe you have pots here. No, Says she, sir I have not; she repeated that two or three times; then I turned her cloak on one side and I said, Now my dear you see that I see they are pots. She had six pints and two quarts; then I took her into custody and took her home to my own house; the pots she carried in her apron all the way back, and I led her by the arm. I have kept the pots since. Then I sent for one of my neighbours, a publican, his name is Mr. Blackburn, and he sent for a constable. (The pots produced.)

Prosecutor. This is my pot, it has the name on of the man that I succeeded in the house, (Green.) and I bought all his things.

Q. Is that an old pot? - It is.

Q. Did you miss any at all? - We miss them almost every morning; I cannot say that I missed this in particular.

Q. I want to know whether at the time you missed any pint pots? - I really cannot say.

Q. I ask whether that day, or about that time any pint pots were missing? - It is evident they were missing.

Q. Were any pint pots missing about the time that that was brought to you? - I did not discover any missing.

Q. Did you discover any missing any time previous to this? - Yes, a day or two before.

JAMES TURNER sworn.

I am the constable that was sent for to Mr. Wood's. I went to the house of Mr. Wood and there found the prisoner in the parlour with the pots in her apron.

Prisoner. I was totally distressed, that was the instigation of my doing it. I leave myself to the mercy of the court; I had been sick a great while.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-48

47. ANN LOCK was again indicted for feloniously stealing on the 29th of November , a pewter pint pot, value 13d. the goods of William Hulme .

WILLIAM HULME sworn.

Q. Were one of these pots taken from the prisoner, yours? - Yes, I keep the sign of the - in Vine-street, by the Horse-ferry, Westminster .

Q. Did you at any time miss any pewter pots? - Only one that morning, the 29th of November.

Q. What time did you miss it? - About nine o'clock, or between nine and ten.

Q. Is your name on it? - Yes.

Q. How long have you kept the house? - Between seven and eight years.

Q. Have you ever sold any? - None but what I sold to the pewterer, when I change for new ones.

Q. Were those that you sold to the pewterer precisely of the same shape and mark with this? - I had them made all of the same mark since I kept the house.

Q. What does the pewterer do with them? - Melt them down, they tell me so. (Produces his pot.)

Q. Your name and the house is on it! - Yes.

Samuel Wood. Is that one of the pots you took from the prisoner? - Yes, it is one that I found on her.

Prisoner. In was nothing but poverty

that drove me to it, and I had a child at the same time.

GUILTY . (Aged 30.)

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-49

48. MARGARET PAINE was indicted for stealing, on the 17th of November , a linen sheet, value 10s. the goods of Thomas Jones .

SARAH SHARP sworn.

Q. Are you a relation of Mr. Jones's? - No.

Q. Does Mr. Jones keep house? Do you live in the house? - Yes.

Q. What may Mr. Jones be? - A gentleman that lives upon his fortune, in James's-street, Westminster .

Q. Mr. Jones is not here himself, is he? - No, illness prevents his appearance.

Q. Do you know his name to be Thomas? - Yes.

Q. In what manner was this linen sheet taken away? - I gave it to the prisoner; she was sent by the laundress for the linen to wash, Wednesday the 17th of November, I suppose about half past three in the afternoon.

Q. How soon did you discover they were missing? - In the evening the laundress sent to enquire if the woman had been for the linen, and we heard no more of her till the next morning, from the police office.

Q. Did you go to the police office? - I did.

Q. Did you see the sheets there? - Yes.

Q. There is only one described to be missing? - Only one.

Q. Was the prisoner under examination? - Not the first day.

Q. When you see it there, did you you know it? - Yes.

Q. Was there any name on it? - Only the number, she had unpicked the name.

Q. Do you know what those figures were? - No. 3.

Q. Do you know whether a sheet was missing from the house, No. 3? - Yes.

Q. Was it a stamped mark with ink, or worked? - Worked black.

Q. Did you take it home with you? - No, the pawnbroker has it.

Q. You are sure that is the woman? - Yes.

Prisoner. Did you give me the sheet? - She had nothing but a pair of sheets.

Q. Had she ever been at your house before? - Several times from the washerwoman.

GEORGE WIGULAM sworn.

I am a pawnbroker's servant. On Monday the 17th of November, the prisoner at the bar, about half past three o'clock in the afternoon, came into our house, situated in York-street, Westminster, she offered this sheet to pledge, on taking the sheet, I saw a figure of three on it, and it appeared to me, at first sight, as though a mark had been picked out, and from the fineness of the sheet, I had a very strong suspicion that she had not come honestly by it, she offered it as her own, it is a very large sheet, it is about three yards and half in length, and ellwide linen. In consequence of this I asked her several questions, she gave me several unsatisfactory answers, I perceived something in her apron, and just taking down her apron, I see this other sheet, that confirmed my suspicions, because on one there was the whole initial in full. I. T. A, and the same Number, on which I did not inspect the other sheet any farther, but concluded at once that the mark was picked out of this that she offered, in consequence of this, I sent off immediately to the police office, and got a constable and gave her in charge.

Q. Did you see Miss Sharp at the office? - I did, the next day, and she claimed the sheet.

- sworn.

I am a constable at the police office, Queen's-square; I took her into custody, I know little further than having charge of her.

Q. Who had the goods? - The pawnbroker.

Pawnbroker. I have kept the goods the whole time.

Miss Sharp. These two sheets I delivered to the prisoner, they are Mr. Jones's.

Prisoner. I came to my day's work at five o'clock in the morning, at three o'clock my mistress gave me leave to go for these pair of sheets, and I used to go to Mr. Jones's one Monday for the sheets, and carry them clean the next. I went about three o'clock, and after I had been in for the sheets, and come out, I met a woman, that asked me to buy a pair of shoes for one shilling, and I saw a pawnbroker's facing me, and I ran into the door, and asked him for a shilling for that sheet, and he looked at the sheet, and asked me whose it was? - I said, it is mine, and I said I would come as soon as I had done with the day's work, and fetch it out, and he sent to Queen's-square for a constable, and he took me to the justice's, and I never see the justice in my life before. I have had three gentlemen to speak for me here, four days.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-50

49. ANN MASON was indicted for stealing, on the 13th of November , a woman's pair of stays, value 40s. the goods of John Lewthwaite .

JOHN LEWTHWAITE sworn.

On Thursday the 13th of November, I lost five pair of stays. I keep linen ready made, wearing apparel, linen drapery, and such things . I live in Holywell-street , I lost them from my room on the first floor, on the evening of the same day I found the stays missing, I did not hear any thing of them for twelve days, when a person called, and asked me if I had lost any stays? I said, I had; he said there was a pair dropped at a public house, and I went to see if they were my stays, and I described them in such a manner, that the landlord gave them up. They were my stays, and I gave the old woman five shillings for coming to inform me.

Prisoner. Do you know me? - Not before I took her.

RICHARD BADLEY sworn.

I live at the Rose and Crown, Clare-court, Clare-market.

On Thursday the 13th in the evening, the prisoner at the bar came, in company with another woman, and called for a quartern of gin, and then sat down in the box for ten minutes I suppose, and after they were gone, there was a pair of stays picked up by a person that was in the house, where they had been sitting, the person that picked them up, immediately brought them to the bar, and gave them into my custody, and there was a person know that a pair of stays was left in the house, this was on Friday, then she immediately goes to the prisoner, and the prisoner came on Saturday to demand the stays as her property. I asked her how she came by them? She said she had a draft on a flax maker in the country, and she took it out in stays. About a week after this woman came and said she found

an owner for them, Mr. Lewthwaite, and he came and owned them.

MARY BENTLY sworn.

I was out at a day's work when the prisoner called on me, it was Thursday, about four-o'clock in the afternoon, and she would have me to come out, she had something to say to me, however she did not tell me what she wanted with me, and she asked me to drink a drop of something with her? and I went to this gentleman's house(Badley's) and she asked me what I would have to drink? and having been hard at work, we had a quartern of gin, after we had drank it, she put her hand into her pocket, and said she had got no money, and I laid down the two-pence halfpenny, and I said I must go, for my mistress had got company coming; and she went towards Drury-lane, and I went to my work. I did see some stays on her arm at the public house, and when she came to me.

Prisoner. Mrs. Bently has known me a great many years. I have lived a housekeeper by her.

- WOODHOUSE sworn.

I have a pair of stays which was pledged on the 14th of November, but not by the prisoner; I know nothing of the prisoner. Some time after Mr. Lewthwaite came and owned them, they were pledged in the name of Mansfield.

JOSHUA ALLEN sworn.

I have got two pair of stays pledged by a person, but not by the prisoner at the bar; I know nothing of her.

JAMES MACARTHY sworn.

On Friday the 24th of November, I took a pair of stays to pledge, but not of the prisoner at the bar.

ACQUITTED .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-51

50. WILLIAM TOAKLEY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 20th of November , a silver watch, value 30s. the goods of William Blastock .

WILLIAM BLASTOCK sworn.

About seven o'clock in the morning, last November two years, I don't know what day, I went to the vault in my master's stable yard, in the Curtain Road, Shoreditch ; I live with Mr. Smith, he keeps a livery stable, I came away from the place and left my watch, in about three minutes after, I was coming by the place, I saw the foreman Thomas Melson go up stairs to the vault, and just as he got to the top, I saw him, and he turned again, and I missed my watch about three hours after, and I went to the vault to see after it.

Q. What do you know about the prisoner? - He is a fellow servant of mine. When I came back again, I went to the stable yard, and he asked me if I had found my watch? - I said no.

Q. You don't know the man took it? - No, I don't know the man took it.

Q. Who knows any more about it? - Mr. Reynold's, the bedstead maker.

Prisoner's Counsel. How long do you say this is since? - Two years last November.

Q. How long did you say it was before you missed your watch? - About three hours.

Q. Now recollect yourself. Did you ever say any where it was more than three hours? - I cannot say it was more than three hours.

Q. You never said it was more than half a day? - I never did.

Q. How many hours do you say it was after you was in the privy that you missed the watch? - Two hours and half or three hours.

Q. Was Mr. Smith in a large way of business? - Yes.

Q. Employed a great number of men? - Yes.

Q. In the stable yard is a thorough-fare? - Yes.

Q. Was it the fact that people used to pass and repass throughout? - Not except they had business to do.

Q. Where was the privy situated? - It was next to a blacksmith's shop.

Q. Was it a place to which all your men had access? - Yes, I believe it was.

Q. Were there many people that used to be in that yard besides Mr. Smith's servants? - Yes, I believe the blacksmith did use to go there and his men.

Q. And persons that put up their carriages there, their servants had also access to this place? - I believe so.

Q. Do you recollect whether there was any door to it? - No, no door to it.

Q. Do you happen to know any distinguishing mark on your watch? - I know the name and the town, it was engraved all the way round, it is a small thin watch.

Q. This man was your fellow servant? - He was.

Q. Do you remember a man of the name of York? - No.

Court. Did you happen to see the prisoner near the place at the time? - I did not, I challenged him with it about three hours after it, and offered him a guinea to give it me, and he said he had never seen it.

Q. What was it worth? - I don't know what it was worth.

Mr. Cullen. Did you ever advertise the watch? - No, I did not. I went from London the next week. I was out of town two years.

JOHN REYNOLDS sworn.

The prisoner was in my employ for two years. I live at No. 10, King-street, Moorfields.

Q. What time was he in your employ? - It is nearly two years since he came to my employ, he came to learn my business, I am a bedstead maker, we had an agreement between us, he was to give so much money to learn the business, it was an agreement by word of mouth, and I suppose it was six months before he could pay me the money as fast as I requested it, and about six months he offered a watch he had to me as a part of the payment of the money, which I took the watch, and gave him two guineas and a half for it, so we continued, and I sold the watch to Mr. Flemmell.

Mr. Cullen. This man has lived in your service two years? - He came to learn my business.

Q. Has he industriously applied himself to the business in order to learn it? - He has.

Q. Did he offer the watch to you openly as an honest man? - He did, there was another man in the court that he offered it to, but that man hung back, and I had it.

Q. How did he say he came by them? - He told me that a man his wife did washing for owed some money, which he thought it right to detain the things, and it so happened that the man could not pay, and he offered him this watch for some money in part of payment. The prisoner served me duly and truly for two years.

Q. If he should happen to be discharged should you take him into your service again? - Yes.

- FLEMMELL sworn.

I bought the watch of Mr. Reynolds, I delivered it to the magistrate in Worship-street.

JOHN RAY sworn.

I have got the watch, I received it from Flemmell.

Blastock. That is my watch, I know it by the marks on the outside case, and the name on it.

Mr. Cullen. Upon your oath did you never say that there was a heart engraved on the outside? - I never said any thing but that it was engraved all the way round.

Q. Do you know the number? - I do not.

Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. JUSTICE GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-52

51. JOSEPH BURGESS was indicted for stealing, on the 1st of December , twenty pounds weight of cheese, value 6s. and two pounds weight of butter, value 1s. the goods of Ann Matthews .

ANN MATTHEWS sworn.

I live at No. 4, Crown-court, Westminster . The 1st of December, about eight o'clock at night, I was sitting in my little back room, and I saw a man come into the shop. I keep a chandler's shop , I saw him take the butter and cheese from the counter, and I went out and cried out stop thief! but as all the places were shut up I turned back again, for fear somebody else should get into the shop, and I heard them throw the dish of butter down at the corner of the court at the watch box, and a person brought the butter back, and I considered after that, that he might have thrown the cheese down, and I went out with a candle to look, and when I went out, these men that took him were coming by, and they asked me what was the matter? and I told them, and they said they would catch him; I was frightened, and went back again and thought nothing more about it, and when the watchman came to his watch box, he came down and said, poor woman, is it you that has been robbed to-night? I said yes, says he, then the thief is fast enough, he is in the watch-house, but he has very illused the men that took him. I see him the next morning at Queen-square. I went there.

Q. Did you know him again? - No, because I only see his back and a jacket,

Q. Was he such a person, as the person to you appeared to be, that you saw take the cheese off the counter? - I only saw the back of a man.

Q. Did you see the cheeses? - Yes.

Q. Are the cheeses your's? - They are to the best of my knowledge.

WILLIAM HATCH sworn.

As Mr. Dungate and I were going from the office, (I belong to the office at Queen's-square) just as we passed the end of Crown-court, we heard something fall. I immediately turned to look what fell, and I heard somebody cry out stop thief, with a faint voice; in a few minutes afterwards we walked towards the corner, and we met a woman, that told us that a man had stole two cheeses, and the thief had gone up Charles-street, towards Duke-street. I immediately pursued him up Charles-street, into Duke-street, from thence to Delahaye-street; in Delahaye-street, I asked two women if they saw a man run past, they said no. I immediately concluded that the man had gone up Gardner's-lane, and we went up there, and we had not gone but a little way, before we met the prisoner with the two cheeses under his left arm. We immediately seized him, my partner on one side and I on the other, and he asked us directly what we wanted with him? we told him he was our prisoner, and he should go along with us; he immediately dropped the cheese from under his arm, and made a cut at my partner,

with a knife which he had in his hand; when he found that, he struck him over the arm with the truncheon, and said if he did not drop his knife, he would break his arm. With that he swore he would do our business for us if we did not let him go; we told him we would not, in a few minutes, after some struggling, I received a cut over my hand, it is almost well now. We scuffled with him for about twenty minutes, and at last we got him secured, and got him safe to the watch-house. Here is the cheeses here.

Prisoner. Was not I making water when you took me? - No.

Q. Pray sir, what did you say to me when I was in the lock up room in Queen's-square? - I told the prisoner, to the best of my knowledge, that he was not aware of us before we took him, which indeed he was not.

Q. Did not you say to that man we must swear, when we go before the justice that we took the cheeses from him, or else he will not be committed? - I did not say any thing of that sort; because he had got the cheeses under his arm and let them fall.

- DUNGATE sworn.

I was going with my brother-officer along Charles-street; just behind Crown-court, I heard something fall, says I, there is a lamp broke; in a minute or two afterwards we heard the cry of stop thief, we went back to see what it was, and we saw a short gentlewoman that said she had been robbed of two cheeses. We saw a man round the corner, and I said it is ten to one if that is not him, we went into Delahaye-street, and just going down a gateway, we see the prisoner at the bar, with the two cheeses in his left arm, and the knife in the other hand; and we stopped him, and he dropped the cheeses immediately, and he cut me right across the eye, and then he attempted to strike my partner, and he struck him on the wrist; At last justice Addington happened to come by and he assisted to hold him while we took the knife away.

Prisoner. Ask him whether he took any knife from me? - No, we lost the knife in the skussle, but we were cut.

Prosecutrix. I can swear by them ark, they are my cheeses.

Prisoner. About half an hour after eight, on Monday night, I was coming up the Stable-yard, and these cheeses lay, one lay on one side, and the other, on the other of me; and I was making water, and these men came up to me, and said I had stole the cheeses.

GUILTY . (Aged 26.)

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-53

52. JOHN WILKES , was indicted for feloniously stealing on the 24th of November , nine pair of leather boots, value 12l. and seventeen pair of leather shoes, value 21s. the goods of Baltis Ford .

BALTIS FORD sworn.

I am a shoe-maker , No. 31, Swallow-street, St. James's ; the prisoner at the bar, has worked for me for about six months, from about this time, when he came to work, I told him he was not to take the work out of the house, he was to work in a room of mine up stairs; I employed him from the time he came to me till the 24th of November last, about half an hour after two, on Monday the 24th of November, the prisoner came into

my shop, I asked him how it was he was not at work on that day? this was between two and three. He said he had been moving goods for his mother; he said that all was settled concerning his mother's lodging; and that he would be a lodger with me that night, as I had vacant beds.

Q. Did you consent to that? - Yes. He asked my shopman, whether he would drink share of a pint of beer? he agreed to that, and the prisoner went and setched a pint of porter. I went into the parlour, and I saw the prisoner stand near to the fire place.

Q. How long did you stay in the parlour? - Not above two minutes, I believe; I saw the prisoner stand at the fire place, with his back towards the shop. I have two rails of boots hanging across the fire place; the fire place is not made use for a fire, there are boots hang up there for sale, over the two rails before the fire place, over the fire place are two shelves of boys shoes; a mantle shelf originally. I see the prisoner standing there, and there came in a person for some boys shoes, to have a pair, and another for a pair of boots. I cast my eyes towards the fire place, were the prisoner stood, and I see him put a something in his bosom, what it was I could not tell, I then went on his left hand side, and got as it were to see if I could see what it might be that he had, but as I came towards his left, he turned with his back towards me, and he pretended to be pulling boots down, of a different quality to what the customer wanted, at last he buttoned his coat up. I told my wife, Wilkes had got something, and when he had buttoned up, as he thought convenient, he went out at the back door, I followed him to about two yards of the back door, my back door goes into Leicester-street; and at the door I seized him by the collar, in Leicester-street, I then told him, Wilkes, you have got something in your bosom, but what it is I don't know. I then took him by the collar, and never quitted him till I delivered him up to one of the officers of Marlborough-street who searched him, and I stood present at the time, there was a pair of boots found on him, nothing found on him but that, at that present time; as they were going to lock him up, after I was bound over to appear against him for these pair of boots; I was sent for by the magistrate directly after, and when I went back at half after five, the magistrate produced forty duplicates.

Court. We cannot hear any thing about the production of those duplicates, because that is going to another fact, unless you then heard him say any thing relative to these boots? - He said, he hoped they would make it death, that he might die for the crime he had done, he was sensible of his guilt.

Mr. Gurney. We don't want your sense of his expressions, we want the prisoner's sense.

Q. So you see the prisoner putting something in his coat? - No, in his bosom.

Q. He was helping a person on with some boots? - No, he was not, he was standing up at the fire place.

Q. You say there was a person came in for a pair of boots? - There was.

Q. You keep an old boot and shoe shop? - And new too.

Q. Whether officially or not, the prisoner did pull down some boots to shew to this person? - He did.

Court. Was that before or after he had got the boots concealed? - Not till after.

Mr. Gurney. There was some person came in before the prisoner put a young in his bosom? - No, he had got the boots secured first.

FRANCIS MURRAY sworn

On the 24th of November last, the prosecutor, Mr. Ford, brought the prisoner at the bar by his collar to the office.

Q. How far is that from the prosecutor's house? - Very near a quarter of a mile, he desired me to take care of the man, to take him into custody, and to search him, and he rather resented it, he would not let me search him; I insisted on searching him, and I found these pair of boots between his shirt and flesh, buttoned up; the prosecutor was there, he said, that is my property, they have been in my possession ever since, and they are marked with my name.

Prosecutor. They are mine, marked G 6, they cost me seven shillings and sixpence, and a shilling doing them up.

Prisoner. I leave it to my counsel.

The prisoner called three witnesses who gave him a very good character.

GUILTY . (Aged 26.)

Imprisoned one year in the House of Correction and fined 1s.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-54

53. JAMES MACKAY was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 18th of November , a canvas bag, value 2d. a rupee, value 2s. a guinea, a half guinea, four half crowns, fourteen sixpences, nine shillings, and a bank note, value 5l. the property of Charles Wilkie .

CHARLES WILKIE sworn.

I live at No. 10, Catharine-street, I print the Publicans Morning Advertiser , on Tuesday the 18th of last month, I went to the two-shilling gallery in Covent Garden theatre , about a quarter before ten; the place was much crowded, I stood looking over the peoples heads, I felt something at my pocket, a hand, recollecting I had my money there, I put my hand to my pocket and found it gone. I immediately turned round and see the prisoner at the bar, who seemed to be endeavouring to get off; I immediately seized him by the collar, and charged him with having robbed me; he denied it of course, but finding I was determined not to quit with him, he pushed his hand suddenly from him, and out of his hand he dropped the canvas which contained the money that is mentioned in the indictment. I still had him by the collar, and stooped down on the ground to recover it, I could not find it, I requested a lady that stood immediately before for to move round a little, and she turned round and the bag tumbled down on the floor, I suppose from her clothes; I picked it up and put it into my pocket, I then called for a constable, a person came and took hold of him by the collar. There is one circumstance I forgot to mention, before I called for the constable he said, you have got your money, you had better say no more about it, for it will give you a great deal of trouble. When he got into the street he requested the person that had him in custody to let him walk by himself, he did so, and he then ran away; we followed him, and I overtook him and stopped him; he was not out of my sight. He was then conveyed to the Brown Bear, and given into the hands of a constable who searched him; the next day I attended at Bow-street, and was bound over to prosecute. This is the bag that contains the property.(Produces it.)

Prisoner. I would wish to ask the gentleman if he can say that he saw me drop

any thing from my hand? - I did most certainly see him drop this bag from his hand.

Prisoner. I would wish to ask if he did not take it from between the women? - I took it from the floor, dropping from a lady that was there.

Prisoner. There was a great concourse of people there, and he took hold of me because I was very nigh him. - He stood next to me, from the position in which he stood I could not possibly conceive it was any other hand that was in my pocket.

EDWARD TREADWAY sworn.

I am a constable. On Tuesday the 18th of November, the prisoner was brought into the Brown Bear , at Bow-street, and I searched him, and on him I found two odd gloves and this pocket book.

ROBERT WALLER sworn.

I am the door keeper of Covent Garden theatre. On the 18th of November there had been a great deal of confusion in the house, and the constable was obliged to go into the boxes to get some women out; during that time Mr. Wilkie brought the prisoner down to me to take care of him, as he brought him down to me he said, let me go, will you? the gentleman has got his property again, and there is no harm done. Says I, that will not do, you must go with me to the Brown Bear, so I took him by the collar, and he says, don't drag me along; says I, I will not, behave then like a gentleman, says he, I will; so at the end of Martlett court, he took to his heels and away he ran, and we went after him and took him again.

Prisoner. I stand here in a very aukward situation, having no counsel, and therefore I hope you will take my case into consideration. On this evening I was taken, I went promiscuously to see this new pantomime which has lately come out, I had not been in the house above ten minutes, before this gentleman collared me, says I, what is that for; says he, you have got my purse, as I was standing next to him; with that, while he had me by the collar, he stoops down and picks it up from the ground between two women, the place was so very much crowded that I had not power to move, and he took and lugged me to the office, therefore, gentlemen, I hope you are convinced in your own breasts that I am not guilty of this felony. I had three witnesses for four days, but I don't know whether they are here now. I sent to Mr. Sheriff Brander, and I did not know he was dead, he knew me from a child.

GUILTY . (Aged 29.)

Transported for Seven years .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-55

54. HENRY POWEL, otherwise HENRY FOSS , was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 18th of November , two sheep carcases, containing one hundred and twenty pounds weight of mutton, value 1l. 10s. the goods of John Jolly .

JOHN JOLLY sworn.

I am a carcase butcher , I live in Vere-street, Clare-market , on the 18th of November I missed these two carcases from my door, in the morning about two o'clock, they hung out all night, we have a man to watch them. In the

morning about two o'clock, the watchman stopped a man with two sheep, and took him to the watch-house.

Q. Did you observe them missing? - No, I was a bed.

Q. Is your servant here that watched them? - No, he is not, I left the sheep there the over night, and these were a particular sheep.

- PENDERGRAST sworn.

Q. Do you know the prisoner? - I know him well. I knew him before that same night that he committed the error. I am a watchman in the parish of St. Giles's, I saw him on the 18th of November. After two o'clock on the 18th of November, I heard my brother watchman in the parish of St. Giles's, spring his rattle, crying out stop thief; I was in my watch-box in Prince's-street, in Stanhope-street, when I heard the cry I ran out of my box, and I saw the prisoner at the bar coming up Stanhope-street with the carcase of a sheep on his back, and when he saw me he heaved down the sheep just within one door of my box, and heaving down the sheep he crossed the street and thought to make his escape from me, and a strong man catched hold of him till we came up and seized on him, and we took him to the watch-house, and the constable of the night examined him.

Prisoner. This here man came into the Bail dock and said, if I had a friend that would give three guineas he would make it up. - I never said a word of the kind.

Court. Did Mr. Jolly see the sheep? - He did.

JOHN HURST sworn.

I am a watchman of St. Clement's Danes, in Stanhope-street, Clare-market. At two o'clock the 18th of November I was sitting in my box, and I saw the prisoner at the bar come by my box with two carcases on his back, I called to him and said, my brave fellow, what have you got there? he made me no answer; I then jumps out of my box and I said, my brave fellow, stop! and I seized him by the collar, and he throws the upper sheep against my breast, which throws me back about a yard. I jumps over the sheep, sprung my rattle, followed him, and cried stop thief, and in the course of twenty yards he throwed the other sheep down against the watch-box; in about twenty yards further he was stopped in Prince's-street, where there was no thoroughfare for man or horse. Mr. Jolly see the sheep and said they were his.

Prisoner. I never see the man before I see him at the watch-house.

Prosecutor. They are my sheep, I know them by the mark particularly by the side.

Prisoner. My lord, I am at present distressed and not able to see a counsel, as your lordship is to be my judge, I humbly hope you will also become my advocate. My case really is as follows: On the 17th of November I worked all day at my business until eight o'clock at night, when a shopmate called on me and I went out with him to Charing-cross, and unfortunately staid out drinking with him till near two o'clock the next morning; returning home, I heard a rattle and noise among the watchmen, and being rather in liquor, went to where I heard it, when one of them laid hold on me and said I was the person. I told him I had been drinking with an old shopmate that was going to sea again, and it was curiosity that induced me to come to see what was the matter. All expostulation was in vain, he insisted I was the person that stole the carcases of the two dead sheep, that he saw me throw one at his

watch-box, and run away with the other; I was taken before a magistrate, and he persevered in the same story. The magistrate, after hearing the charge, asked me if I was willing to go to sea? I said I had an aged mother and a wife and child that depended on my earnings, and I could keep them decent by my honest industry; I am but recovered very lately out of a severe fit of illness, never used to carry any load, nor ever in my life able to carry the carcases of two sheep; and I humbly submit to your lordship whether I am the person that could do the felony, and that the witnesses must be mistaken with respect to my person. There are some persons waiting to avouch to my character, that I am a good character and keep remarkable good hours.

The prisoner called two witnesses who gave him a good character.

Jury to Prosecutor. By what marks do you know these sheep to be yours? - Particular marks that we have in scoring the shoulder, I could swear to them if I had seen them a hundred miles about.

Q. Does no other butcher mark in the same way? - Not in our market.

GUILTY . (Aged. 29.)

Imprisoned six months in the House of Correction and fined 1s.

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-56

55. DAVID WILLIAMS was indicted for that he, on the 7th of October, in the thirty-third year of his present Majesty's reign , in the county of Pembroke , on John Jones then being on board of a vessel called a boat, within four leagues of the coast of this kingdom, to wit, within one league of the county of Pembroke, and being in the due execution of his office in seizing the said boat, unlawfully did make an assault, and did hinder, obstruct, and oppose him in the execution of his duty ; to which he pleaded.

GUILTY .

Fined 1s.

Reference Number: t17941208-57

56. MICHAEL ROACH was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 23d of July , four red morocco skins, value 14s. and a piece of satinet, value 1d. the goods of Thomas Powel .

THOMAS POWEL sworn.

I live in Limehouse, in Queen-street, I am a shoe-maker , at the time of the late fire I lived at No. 70, Broad-street, Ratcliffe-highway , July the 23d I was moving for other people, and the house was in the midst of the fire; my house was burnt and all the property I had was burnt. I was moving for other people till the India House took fire, and then our house catched fire immediately; I was not at home then, when with the few things that were taken out of the house there were these skins among others; there was a great many things I lost, a pretty large quantity of those were all lost, which way I cannot say, but they were all lost; they were taken down to Queen-street, where I now reside; but among these there were four skins laid at the office to be owned, Shadwell office, and I went and found they were mine, by the piece of satinet that was with them.

Q. How lately before the fire had you seen them in your house? - They were in a drawer tied up together with a string, and put them rather on one side, I had seen them a few days before the fire, and had not sold them or touched them.

Mr. Knowlys. I think you say that your house caught fire, and that you did not move any goods yourself? - I did not myself, I gave them out to two or three friends to carry them away as well as we could.

Q. I believe you was not sent for to identify this property till the 24th of November? - Somewhere thereabouts.

RICHARD GARDINER sworn.

I have the property. I went down like many others at the fire at Ratcliffe, the 23d of July, between five and six in the evening. In going home I called at a public house at White Horse-street, Stepney, which I formerly kept, drinking a pot with a friend I heard the cry of stop thief; I immediately ran out of the house and saw the prisoner at the bar with a bundle in a blue apron under his arm, I stopped him and asked him what he had got there? he said, leather, and that he had found it in the street; I told him that I suspected he had stole it at the fire, and that I should detain him in custody, I took him into the house where I went out of, and a constable came in belonging to Stepney parish (his name is Germaine) then I told him I gave him charge of the prisoner at the bar, on suspicion of robbing some individual at the fire, and he had two examinations before justice Staples, then he was admitted to bail. On the 27th of November I had this summons sent me from justice Staples's, to give evidence concerning that property, which property when I left it at the police office it was sealed up. When I came to Shadwell office again it was opened to me, and there is one skin out of the four that I think to be the same property, but I cannot swear to it.

Mr. Knowlys. Whatever it was that the prisoner had got, it was wrapped up when you see it, and on your asking what it was, he told you it was leather? - He did, and said he found it.

Q. You did not find out who the owner of this leather was? - I did not until I was sent for to the police office.

Q. Did you see what the officers took from this man at the time they took him up? Did they take any money from him? - I took a guinea and three half-crowns from him.

Q. I believe the three half crowns are returned? - Yes.

Q. And the guinea kept by Germaine? - The prosecutor lives in the neighbourhood and can give an account.

Prosecutor. Mr. Germaine is very ill, I don't think he will live long at any rate.

Q. to Gardiner. How far was this from the fire where you stopped the prisoner? - About one hundred yards from the fire at the time it was then burning.

Prosecutor. This is my property, I can swear to it by the piece of satinet.

Q. But without that can you swear to the leather? - Yes, by the particular spots.

Mr. Knowlys. Did Germaine know where you lived? - Yes.

Q. What day did he come to you to enquire about it? - I think it was the second day, or two days afterwards. There were two or three shoemakers sent for besides, they did not own them and then they thought of me, on account of a mark that a leather seller or leather dresser knew, I don't know which.

Q. Did you attend the examination? - Yes.

Q. How came it you did not own it then? - I did own it as soon as I came up to the office. The prisoner was discharged at that time.

Q. You have none of the gentlemen here who were assisting you in conveying

these goods from your house to account how they carried them? - I have not.

MICHAEL PEMBROW sworn.

I am a labouring man. I carry fish from Billingsgate to several parts of the the town; a fishmonger's porter. On the 23d of July I was down at Ratcliffe-highway, where the fire has been; I was there between the hours of three and four o'clock in the afternoon, I was passing by and I saw this man pick up this parcel in the street, in White-horse-street.

Q. Did you see what it was that was picked up? - They appeared to me as leather, and I saw him afterwards keeping them on his arm, exposed to, I suppose where there were an hundred people.

Q. Was you acquainted with him before? - Not much.

JAMES METEL sworn.

I am a surgeon dentist. I have known him a twelvemonth. I never see a quieter man in my life; he sells rabbits and ducks .

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-58

57. WILLIAM WARD was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 6th of November , an iron hammer, value 6d. a pair of iron pincers, value 6d. six awis, value 1s. and two instep leathers, value 6d. the goods of John Bowden .

JOHN BOWDEN sworn.

I am a shoemaker . The prisoner came to our house a few days before he committed this fact, which was Tuesday or Wednesday before Lord Mayor's day in the morning. I live at No. 49, Wheeler street, Spitalfields . On Lord Mayor's day the prisoner sent me out on a message that he might have an opportunity of stealing my things; he sent me to the Prince Alfred public house, and told me that he had left threepence there for me to get a pint of beer, as he knew I was short of money. When I came there I asked the landlord if such a person had left threepence for me? he said he had not, and when his wife got up I asked her and she said he had not. When I went back to my room I found the things in the indictment, missing from the place where I live and work, it is in a garret, the prisoner slept and worked in the same place; after that I was obliged to open a subscription among some acquaintances to buy some more things; I was in great distress at that time, I never was in such distress in my life.

Q. What did you do to find these things? - That happened a fortnight after or very near, on a Sunday evening my witness saw the man very near our house and he charged the man with an officer, knowing him to be the person that took my things, and when he was brought before the justice he was asked where he had pawned the things, he said he did not know.

Prisoner. I thought you meant the things that were stolen out of the room, I did not think that you meant the kit.

Prosecutor. There were none pawned at all, the runner Blackiter found them in his possession.

Prisoner. When I first came he worked for Mr. Hardy, and he spent all the money and pawned his coat, and had not a farthing of money left to support himself, and he owes me money to this day.

Prosecutor. This man lent me a few halfpence.

EDWARD SUMPTION sworn.

I was sent for the eighth of November, after he was taken into custody and they asked me if I knew this Mr. Ward? I said yes. He worked for me a fortnight and one day after he took these peoples tools; he had among them tools which he worked with in my house, this same poor man's tools.

Q. How do you know the prisoner brought the tools to your house? - He worked for me the 8th of November till the 25th, which happened on a Saturday night; he had no tools when he came first, I lent him some to work with, but afterwards he had these tools and worked with some of them.

Q. When did he begin to work with the tools? - I cannot say. When I went up to justice Colquohon's they asked me where he lodged, and I told them, and we went and searched the bedchamber to see if any tools were there, and there were none, and we went to look where we put our own tools of a Saturday night, and these tools were found there.

Prosecutor. They are my tools, every one knows his tools.

GEORGE BOWDEN sworn.

Mr. Ward came to work with me; I carry on business with my father; the prosecutor is my uncle. On the 10th of November I was informed the things were missing, the man left my house and lodgings; on the 23d, I gave him in charge of the officer on suspicion of stealing the things, he denied them positively, he said he had not stole them.

Prisoner. You swore that I stole the sheets out of the room.

Court to Witness. Is what he says true? - I know nothing at all about it. When he came before the justice he owned he had pawned the things; I went to the office again and there I saw the tools, and I knew they were my uncle's tools. The hammer and pincers have been in our house these ten years.

Prisoner. This man is a jacobin.

Court. Have you got any thing to ask him respecting this robbery.

Prisoner. I gave the prosecutor the handkerchief to make up the matter.

Witness. He had a silk handkerchief which he desired me to take care of before we went before the justice; I told him I would take nothing in charge before I went before the justice. Mr. Blackiter has got it.

Prisoner. The prosecutor owed me one shilling and tenpence; his brother would not pay me nor his nephew, and they would not trust them over the way for a red herring. I worked with this man and he owed me the money, and he told me he should not stop long for he could earn but very little money, and he had a good mind to go to the parish, and he let me have the tools to work with because I was so good as to lend him money when his brother would not.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-59

58. WILLIAM WILSON was indicted for feloniously stealing on the 1st of December , twenty six pieces of brass for sword hilts, value 30s. five pieces of brass called bows, value 2s. a piece of brass called a gun bow, value 1s. a gun heel plate, value 6d. a half moon cross, value 6d. and six other pieces of brass called patterns, value 10s. the goods of John Nubley .

THOMAS BOTTEN sworn.

I am a brass founder in Shoe-lane; I manufactured for Mr. Nubley this brass bow, and this that is called a back for a sword, they are both for swords; from the 14th to the 26th of November I sent near two hundred weight, and on the 26th thirty-nine pound weight of that two hundred.

Q. When did you see these articles again? - Monday was se'ennight, I bought them of one Cockran, who is now in court, between eleven and twelve o'clock. I bought them among eighty-six pounds weight, and picked this out of the whole body of what I bought, papered it up and carried them to the prosecutor's house.

Q. Are you sure that they are such things as you manufactured for Mr. Nubley? - Yes.

Q. Does any other person manufacture such things? - I am not sure, but I am sure they were made in our manufactory.

Q. Are these sort of things common with other founders as well as your's? - Not that I know of, but if they did their patterns may not be exactly like them.

JOHN COCKRAN sworn.

Q. Do you know Mr. Botten? - Yes' I do.

Q. Did you at any time carry any goods to him? - Yes, I have.

Q. Look at these goods and tell us whether these are the goods you carried to him? - I carried other goods besides them; I saw such like them; I carried eighty-six pounds weight there.

Q. When did you carry them to him? - The 1st of December.

Q. Who had you the goods from? - Of my brother Patick Cockran .

Q. Did you take the same goods to Mr. Botten? - Yes.

PATRICK COCKRAN sworn.

Q. Did you deliver any goods to your brother? - I told him to take the brass that was up stairs to Mr. Botten's, the 1st of December. There was about eighty-six pounds.

Q. Who had you that brass from? - I had it from several people; I collected it from the shops all round London.

Q. Can you tell us who you had these individual pieces of? - Yes, of a Mrs. Story. This piece I know, it is a sword hilt; and here is two other pieces I know.

Nubley. One is a gun heel plate.

Cockran. I see this bow, I recollect seeing a good many like them when I had them; I had them all of Mrs. Story two days before I sent it to Mr. Botten.

ESTHER STORY sworn.

I live at No. 4, Vine-street, Covent-garden, I recollect seeing the prisoner once, and never but once, I cannot say rightly the day of the month because I am no scholar; I think it was Thursday of a fortnight.

Q. How long was it before you was sent for to Mr. Nubley's? - The Tuesday following. When he came into my shop he shewed me these things and asked me if I bought such as them? and I made him this reply, I never saw such things before.

Q. What are you? - I am a laundress. He answered he was at work at old Hannah's house, and he got them there.

Q. Did you know where old Hannah's house was? - No, I did not at that time. These are like the things that that man brought to me, but I cannot swear to them particularly. The man came to me on Thursday, and Patrick Cockran came on the Friday morning following:

he came into my shop and asked me if I had got any brass, he bought them of me and no more passed; I have not kept the shop a twelvemonth; I deal in old clothes and iron.

Q. You was afterwards sent for to Mr. Nubley's house? - I was.

Q. Did you see the person there who had brought these things to you? - Mr. Nubley brought these things to me, and I said that was the person that I bought them of, he was with two or three men in Mr. Nubley's shop. Mr. Nubley asked me if either of those men was the man that brought it to me, and I said yes.

Q. Brought what to you? - He said such things as these; I said, yes, that is the man the prisoner at the bar.

Q. What day was that? - That was on the Tuesday following.

Q. Are you sure that he is the man that brought these things to you? - To the best of my knowledge he is.

Q. Are you perfectly sure? - Yes.

Q. You deal in old iron, and such sort of things? - Yes.

Q. But can you carry in your memory the person that you buy such things of? - The reason was that I looked at him because I never saw such things.

Q. How long was he in your house? - Three or four minutes.

Q. What time of the day was it? - It was almost dusk, or quite dusk, I cannot say which.

Q. Were there candles in your house? - I cannot rightly tell, I believe there was a candle a light.

JOHN NUBLEY sworn.

Q. You are a sword cutler in Charing-cross ? - Yes.

Q. Will you be so good to look at these articles, and tell us where you had them from? - From the house of Mr. Botten. I am confident there are not such sword hilts made in this country, they were made for the first regiment of guards, and I made the whole of the core; with respect to this heel plate, it was made for the Prince of Wales, cast by one Barnet, in Cock-lane, about six years, and when the gun came to be stocked, this heel plate would not fit, and it has laid by in the warehouse ever since; the prisoner was employed at this time in my warehouse where these things lay.

Q. Can you tell me where he was employed on the 14th of November? - He had been employed all the week in the court. My house was much damaged in the riots in August last, and my house was repairing, and this man came to assist the other man that was constantly employed in the warehouse, and in the course of being there he took them.

Q. Was he employed about the premises on the 28th of November? - He certainly was.

Q. How near is your warehouse to old Hannah's? - That is joining in the court to my warehouse.

Q. Then by any possibility could these things have got into old Hannah's house at the time of the fire? - No, they were never removed.

Q. When did you see Mrs. Story after this information? - I went immediately to Mr. Bottens to look over the brass myself, and in looking over it I found this half moon cross, which is for a Turkish cymeter, with this pattern pommell to cast from. This is a pattern that was made for the first regiment of foot guards, for the serjeants, for to cast from, and was never used but for that regiment; it has been broke since it was stolen out of my house.

Q. When did you see Mrs. Story? - The following day about two or three o'clock, I went to her own house.

Q. Did she, in consequence of any thing you communicated to her, come to

your premises? - Yes, she did, and when she came there I called all the men up into the dining room, Mr. Kirby was there, there was about twenty-five or thirty men; she said it was none of them there. It then struck me that it might be the carpenters; the carpenters were coming out of Mrs. Hannah's house, and I desired this man, as being employed there, to come in. He seemed to have an objection, but the other man that was with him asked him, and he came in; then I called Mrs. Story down, and she pitched on him; there were three or four with him of his partners as they call them.

Q. Did he say any thing? - No, he did not say a word.

Prisoner. Please your worship and gentlemen of the jury, I was at work next door to this gentleman's for some time, and my partner was at work some days for Mr. Nubley. On Monday, about half past eight o'clock, my partner came down to me and asked me, if I would lend him an hand to move a partition? according I went and took my hand saw in my hand, a chissel, and a hammer. I was there about two hours and a half assisting him; after I had done I took up my tools, went down stairs again, and then went to my own work, and was never in Mr. Nubley's house before nor since.

Court to Nubley. When can you swear to seeing these things? - I can swear to seeing this box on Wednesday.

Prisoner. In the morning following I came down, and I had a basket and a few tools in my basket, then I went to the shop and my partner was not there, then I went home again, and went to the shop again, and coming down to the shop I met my partner, and he told me he had been there and could not find me, and I knew no more of it till about twelve o'clock, when Mr. Nubley took me up. I was only two hours and a half at work at Mr. Nubley's, and my partner was there all the while, and I went up in my shirt sleeves, and went down with my shirt sleeves, and that gentleman was there all the time assisting me to move the partition himself, and his porter was there all the time himself.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the second Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice GROSE.

Reference Number: t17941208-60

59. EDMUND OLFIELD was indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 19th of November , eight pounds weight of raw sugar , the property of James Oker French .

Indicted in a second Count for stealing the same goods, laying them to be the property of persons unknown.

WILLIAM DAVIS sworn.

I am a gangsman, I am ignorant with regard to the robbery.

- HOSTILL sworn.

I am a watchman from the ship to the craft; I watch for Captain Starkey, about half after nine in the morning on Wednesday the 19th of November, I catched this man in the craft that I had in my charge, a lighter.

Q. What did that lighter contain? - Seven hogsheads of sugar. He was filling a small bag by the side of a coal bag.

Q. How did he get at the sugar? - He broke the cask open, the other witness see him, and I jumped into the craft off the keys, and I said to the man, what business have you in the craft? I had just come down.

Q. Was any body left in the craft when you left it? - There was the king's

watchman on the key; there was nobody left in the craft. This man was sitting in the public house.

Q. Did you see this man put any of the sugar into the bag? - Yes, I did.

Q. How much might he take in all? - About eight pounds, it is here. He spilt about a dozen pounds of it.

Q. How long had you left it before? - About five minutes, he watched the cask while I went up.

Q. Was the public house in sight of the craft? - No, it was not.

Q. What was done with the sugar? did you take it from him? - Yes, I took it from him; I gave it to the constable that has it now in his possession, Mr. Hunter.

Q. Can you tell me at all to whom this sugar belonged? - No, I cannot; I had the charge of it, but I do not know the owner of the sugar. He throwed the bag on to the Tower-stairs, and I jumped after it.

Q. That was when he see you, I suppose? - Yes, and I jumped after him, and he wanted to hustle me out of it; he jumped down to pick up the bag before I could get at the bag.

Q. But you secured the bag? - Yes, I secured the bag.

WILLIAM WOODMAN sworn.

I am a ticket porter.

Q. Was you present at the robbery? - I was. I was on shore at Brewer's key, and I saw the prisoner at the bar in the craft, and desired him to come out, and he said he would not; and I saw him take part of the canter piece out of the hogshead, part of the head of it, I see him do that, and take out some sugar and put it into a bag; I called to the watchman, and the watchman jumped into the craft and seized him, and I see him sling the bag overboard, he threw it on shore, the watchman jumped after it; they tussled one another about, and I saw the watchman take the property from him.

Q. Now can you tell me to whom this sugar belonged? - No, I cannot tell, I had the working of the ship afterwards.

WILLIAM EGERTON sworn.

I am a constable; after the robbery was committed I went and took charge of the sugar, with my partner that is here; I know nothing at all about the robbery. I took the prisoner to the compter.

THOMAS HUNTER sworn.

I am a constable. I know nothing further than receiving the sugar from Hostill, the watchman; I went down afterwards and saw the hogshead open.

Q. How soon after? - Not ten minutes after, I believe.

Q. Do you know whose sugar it is? - It is entered in the Custom-house by James Oker French , but it is not past the king's beam.

Prisoner. I went down in that lighter to uncover her against the land waiter came; this young fellow came down and asked me what I was doing in the lighter? I told him I was come into the lighter to uncover her. Mr. Hunter knows me.

Hunter. He works in the coal business, I know nothing else of the man.

WILLIAM DAVIS sworn.

I have known the prisoner three years, I know no harm of him.

Court to Hunter. What is the value of the sugar? - Four shillings.

GUILTY . (Aged 36.)

Publickly whipped on Brewer's Key .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-61

60. THOMAS WALKER and ROBERT GIFFORD were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 8th of November , a seron, value 1s. and one hundred pounds weight of indigo, value 60l. the goods of Edward Hanson , John Peirson , William Peirson and Thomas Stoyles .

The case opened by Mr. Const.

WILLIAM COLES sworn.

Q. I believe you are broker to the admiralty? - Yes.

Q. Tell us whether the prisoners were employed by you as warehousemen ? - Yes, they were. The warehouse is in Thames-street .

Q. Do you know whether at any time you had given any orders for any indigo to be brought to your house on the 8th of November? - I know I had not

Q. Where is your house? - About two hundred yards distant.

Q. Was there any indigo at that time in the warehouse? - Yes, there was.

Q. Did you see the prisoners on that day, the 8th of November? - I was sent for by Mr. Stoyles to come to the warehouse, I then saw Walker by the warehouse door in the passage leading from the warehouse into the street; Gifford was gone before I came. Mr. Stoyles told me that he had detected Walker and Gifford in stealing a seron of indigo.

Q. That is a packet of indigo? - Yes, I asked him in what manner? he said there was a man with it on his shoulder; that one of them was guiding it out of the warehouse while the other was looking out to see if any body was coming, and that he came there by accident, and that on his asking what the man had got on his shoulder, Walker desired the man to put it down.

Q. Who came there by accident? - Mr. Stoyles, he was not coming to the warehouse, but he was coming that way. He said that when he accused Walker of it, Walker made no other answer than said, lork, Mr. Stoyles, how can you say so? on that I asked Mr. Walker if he knew nothing of the indigo, and what business he had in the warehouse at all? after some hesitation he said he came to look for a pocket book which be said he had lost, I then said I thought it was not proper for these men to have the keys.

Q. At that time was the packet of indigo laying there which you have been talking of? - The packet lay at the door wrapped up in a mat.

Q. Do you recollect whether the door was then open or shut? - The door was then open.

Q. Is the door secured with two keys? - Yes.

Q. How many keys are there of that warehouse? - The Bull porters ought to keep one key, besides which there is a padlock belonging to the Custom-house officer.

Q. Who was that Custom-house officer? - Walker, he has always had the key.

Q. Would the Bull porters or the warehousemen, if any thing is lost, have been answerable for it? - Yes, they would have had to pay for the indigo.

Mr. Knowlys. This seron of indigo was within-side of the warehouse, was not it? - It was when I see it.

Q. Walker is a person whose business led him there of course? - He had no business there without he is desired to attend.

Q. It is under the king's lock? - It is under the joint lock of the king and warehousemen.

Court. What is Walker? - He is a Custom-house officer, a locker employed under the warehouse keeper, Mr. Chandler.

Q. What time in the morning was this? - Between nine and ten.

Mr. Knowlys. Were the other people in the warehouse? - I believe they were up stairs, but not in that warehouse; in the same stack of warehouses, but not in that warehouse.

Court. You say the indigo was covered with matting? - It was.

Q. Whether it was possible to be covered with the matting without being removed from the place in which it was situated? - No, certainly it could not.

THOMAS STOYLES sworn.

Q. Will you state to us what situation you are in, you and your partners? - We are warehousekeeper s, four partners.

Q. Where are your warehouses situated? - In different parts of the town.

Q. Where was this that is the object of enquiry? - In Thames-street.

Q. Do you know the prisoners at the bar? - I do perfectly, they are officers of the customs.

Q. Tell us what is deposited in your warehouses, and how you secure them? - There are a variety of goods, both under the excise and customs, and in that case the usual officers attend; when any thing of this kind is either taken in or delivered out, the officer of the excise or customs, which ever the case may require.

Q. On the 8th of November had there been any order to take in any goods or deliver any out? - Not to the best of my knowledge, there was none from myself, and I have made enquiry of my partners.

Q. If there had must not either you or your partners attended? - That is the regular course.

Q. Tell us what you observed on that day? - On the 8th of November, passing by on the opposite side of the way, I discovered Mr. Gifford, supposing as I naturally did, that there was nothing that could call his attention there, I crossed over the way and rushed into the warehouse, where I met a man with a seron of, indigo. I met him in the passage between the two doors; between the warehouse and the street door in the passage.

Q. Was this passage under cover or is it an open passage? - Under cover. The man could not pass so readily as he would, and his load was abutting against the brick wall, and Mr. Gifford was conducting it in order to make it pass more easily. Mr. Walker on my entrance desired the man to throw it down; he said, throw it down, throw it down, two or three times he repeated it. The man did not immediately throw it down, but there were some chests of bark in the same warehouse, very near, about four feet high; he immediately put the seron of indigo on the chests of bark. When I got into the warehouse, I naturally felt about, I could not immediately see what the property was, during which time the porter and Mr. Gifford absconded; they got out of the warehouse as soon as they could. I groped about and felt what it was (it was rather dark where it was) and I soon felt what it was, and I desired Mr. Walker not to depart, and I shut the door on him.

Q. When you first see him, you say in the passage, you see him then, but when he returned and put it on the chests in the warehouse you could not see? - No, I could not rightly. I then sent to Mr. Cole, the only proprietor known, and he did not come down immediately.

Q. How many keys are there to your warehouse? - I have one key as the warehouseman, and Mr. Walker has the other as locker.

Q. Has Gifford any connection at all with that business? - Not that I know of, that led to the discovery.

Q. Where did you use to keep these keys? - In our compting house.

Q. Where is that? - I suppose it is about two hundred yards off.

Q. I don't know whether you can recollect the last moment you saw it there? - I cannot.

Q. When had the warehouse been opened before? - Not the warehouse, but the stair foot door had been opened that morning before to deliver other goods.

Q. Had this warehouse been at all opened that morning? - Not at all.

Q. Who has the keys of the doors of the passage? - We have.

Q. Had any body else a key to the outer door? - No, nobody.

Q. Have you two keys; a key to the outer door and one to the warehouse door? - Yes.

Q. Was this seron of indigo in the same state as when you saw it before in the warehouse? - No, it had a mat all round it.

Q. When it was in the warehouse it had nothing on it but the common skin it has on, but when you see it on the man's shoulder it was disguised by a mat or packet? - It was.

Q. So that you did not know what it was at first, but afterwards you discovered? - It was so.

Court. If I understand you right they had this in the passage of the warehouse? - Yes, they had.

Mr. Const. I don't know whether you have had the good fortune to take the third man? - No, I have not, I thought they would have produced him.

Q. Were it either of your men that was at work up stairs? - Yes, Wainwright.

Mr. Knapp. You say you have partners? - I have.

Q. What are their names? - Edward Hanson , John Peirson and William Peirson and myself.

Q. Do you mean that these are all the Bull porters? - Yes.

Q. Is there any other person that has a claim on you in respect of your situation as Bull porters? - No, nobody.

Q. In point of fact though nobody has a right except yourselves to open this passage door that you have described to my learned friend, yet I believe goods have been delivered by persons who have not a right to open the door? - Then it was without our knowledge.

Q. Don't you know it in point of fact? - I do not.

Q. Have you never heard it? - Never.

Q. You say when you was in the street you first observed that somebody was in the warehouse? - Yes.

Q. You was at that time on the opposite side of the street? - I was. There was a little hatch that we look over, and I looked over the door and saw Gifford in the passage.

Q. There was a porter that had this indigo on his shoulder, but he brushed off? - Yes, he has.

Q. When you came in Walker told him to throw it down two or three times? - Yes, and at last he did and ran away.

Court. You mean to say that you was on the opposite side of the way when you discovered Gifford? - Yes.

Q. Where was Gifford when you saw him? - He was in the passage of the warehouse within the inner gate.

Mr. Knapp. You told my learned friend just now that nobody could get into this warehouse, but in case of some order received, and your permission of the key? - It does not ought to be so.

Q. You have told us just now that you have three partners, and they are not here; all that you can say to the jury is, that you gave no such orders? - Certainly.

Q. The passage door we understand was open, and had been opened the morning before? - It had.

Q. Of course other people were at work in the warehouse before? - People were at work at the time.

Q. I believe this was between nine and ten o'clock in the morning? - I believe rather later than that.

Court. What sort of people were at work? - Another gang were at work.

Mr. Knapp. Do you know a man of the name of Gallini? - It is Mr. Glenny I believe. I will correct you if I can.

Q. Do you know any goods being delivered to him without your permission, or without your knowledge? - I do not.

Q. He never applied to you? - Not to my knowledge.

Mr. Const. You have been asked whether men were not at work in the warehouse.

Q. Do you mean the same warehouse? - No; in the warehouse above stairs.

Q. You was likewise asked whether merchants had goods delivered without your knowledge? Was it possible that they could get into the warehouse without having your key and the Custom house key, to get into your warehouse? - Certainly not.

Mr. Knapp. Was not this day a pay day? - I heard some thing of the kind afterwards.

Prisoner Walker. My counsel is in possession of every thing of facts, and I leave every thing to him.

Prisoner Gifford. I wish to leave it to my counsel.

EDWARD SPENDING sworn.

I have a place under government.

Q. Did you go to the warehouses of the prosecutor at any time after Mr. Walker was in custody? - On the 13th of November I went into the warehouses, and I found a pocket book belonging to Mr. Walker.

Mr. Const. What did you say you was? - I have a place under government.

Q. Do you mean that you are a custom house officer? - I am.

Q. Perhaps you had the key after Mr. Walker? - No, I am assistant to the locker-up.

Q. Had you heard any thing of the pocket book before? - I went in to deliver some chests of bark; I had heard from him that he had lost a pocket book there.

Q. Therefore you looked, and there you found it? - Yes.

Q. Who did it belong to, to Gifford, or Walker, or both? - To Walker.

Q. How came you to look for a pocket book? - I heard before the Lord Mayor that Mr. Stoyles said, that Walker was there under the pretence of looking for a pocket book.

Court. Whereabouts was this-pocket book? - About half a yard in on the left hand, in the inner warehouse.

Q. Did you find it on a shelf where other books were kept, or was it in any other place? - As near as I can recollect it lay by the side of a chest of bark; there were no other books there.

Q. Was it a pocket book in which he had his private concerns, or a Custom house book? - His private concerns, I fancy; I never opened it.

RICHARD BADCOCK sworn.

I am at present in the India house, a warehouseman.

Q. What was you before that? - I was clerk to a ship broker.

Q. Did you ever know of having goods delivered to you without applying to the bull porters? - I have delivered goods without, from the warehouse in Chequer-yard.

Q. Did you apply then to the bull porters? - No, by no means. The ship brokers sent me there.

Q. What goods did you deliver? - Nankeen and other goods.

Court. What warehouses are these, are they in the care of the bull porters? - Yes.

Q. Of the present bull porters? - Yes.

Q. Who was with you at the time? - There were three others employed by the same ship brokers; there were two of the ship brokers, and me, and another person.

Q. Do you know the prisoner Walker? - Yes.

Q. Do you know that he was a locker? - Yes.

Q. How long have you known Walker? - About a twelve month, not quite so much.

Q. During that time, what has been his character for honesty? - Undeniable.

Q. How long have you known Gifford? - Nearly as long; and his character is equally as good.

Mr. Const. What employment have you in the India house? - Lotting up goods for sale.

Q. When you lived with the ship brokers you used to go and deliver things out without the knowledge of the bull porters. Now I would wish to know whether they were only on one lock? - They had three locks, and the bull porters delivered the keys to me.

Q. But without that you could not get in, without you break open the door.

Court. You applied to them as for the owner of the goods? - The man who kept the bull porters authorised me to deliver the goods.

Q. Now, when they delivered the goods to you, did not you apply on behalf of the person that purchased the goods? - I applied on behalf of the brokers; but I made no application to the bull porters.

Q. Just now you said that the bull porters delivered the keys to you? - The bull porters man has; they are all called bull porters, from the warehousemen to the labourers.

Q. Was this very often? - I have once or twice had the keys delivered into my hands, to get into this warehouse, by these lockers.

Q. In this warehouse, were there goods of different persons, or only theirs? - Only theirs; the only things in the warehouse was their goods.

Q. You mean then to swear the goods belonged to the ship owners? - Yes, or to the brokers.

Mr. Knapp. My learned friend talks about your getting into this warehouse; you could not get into this warehouse without the key? - Undoubtedly.

Q. Therefore you must have the key from the bull porters themselves, or persons who they have under them? - Undoubtedly.

Q. And therefore when you wanted to get in, you got the keys of the bull porter, or of the bull porters servants? - Yes.

Q. What time do the bull porters servants come there? - About eight o'clock in the morning.

WILLIAM CHANDLER sworn.

I believe you are the chief locker to this place? - I am the warehouse keeper on the part of the customs.

Q. Walker was under you? - He was.

Q. When you are there, if a person comes for any order of goods, if you or your servants are there, you deliver them? - If the duties are paid. The duties of this indigo has been paid some months back, and ought to have been out of my charge.

Court. Who are the sort of persons you deliver them to? - When the duties are paid, they are out of my charge, the land waiter gives an order which exonerates me; in consequence of that, I give an order to the locker, there was a free warrant passed for the goods in question, ever since the 13th of November 1793; a warrant signifying that the duties were paid.

Q. If any person comes at the time you are there, claiming the goods with any order or commission about them, you of course would not oppose their taking them? - If the duties are paid, and his majesty's customs are paid, I have no authority to stop them, if a person comes as from the party that paid the duties, I should deliver them out, and conceive myself justified in so doing, I would not otherwise if the duties were not paid.

Q. Are you to deliver them, or the lockers to deliver them? - The lockers deliver them according to the order he receives from me; for I am his superior officer.

Q. And you say there had been an order made out for the delivery of the whole of this indigo? - There was an order.

Q. This man, Walker, was your locker at that time? - He certainly was the locker, but this order was in May 1794.

Q. Who makes out that order for the delivery? - The order for the delivery is from the landing waiter.

Q. When did you make out the order for the delivery? - There is an order for delivering in May, 1794, the goods ought to have been considered as out of charge ever since November 1793. The landing waiter is the officer that lands the goods, and they are considered under his charge till they come under mine, when they come under mine, the goods are examined in the warehouse with my surveyor and the East India officer.

Q. When do they first come to you? - Immediately after the landing, they are sent up to our warehouses, the goods then examined, and after examination, the duties are paid, either by the broker or agent; after that they remain under my custody, and when the duties are paid, it is the landing waiter who has the warrant, and gives possession, and who sends me an order for the delivery of such and such goods, describing them.

Q. When is the intervention of this warrant? - The warrant is made out to the landing waiter, and from that warrant he sends me an order, under his own hand, to deliver so and so, he does not say to whom, or to what.

Mr. Knowlys. Had there been an order to deliver the whole of this indigo, of which this was one seron? - Yes, this one remaining under that order.

Q. Therefore Walker must know that there was one seron to be delivered? - Yes, and that the duties were paid.(The court examines the order.)

Court. Now I look at the order, it is, deliver the above-mentioned goods to Mr, Cole. As an officer of the customs, you ought to be cautious how you swear.

Q. Who did you give that order to? - I think it was to Mr. Cole's confidential clerk, Mr. King, and in that case, we say, to such a person or bearer. Here is another order that says only, deliver such and such goods without saying to whom

Q. I see on this order, it is addressed to the locker of 154, is Walker the locker there? - Yes, the only locker there.

Mr. Knowlys. Whoever is at the warehouse may be imposed upon, and may deliver to a wrong person? - Undoubtedly he may.

Q. How long have you known Walker? - Ever since October 1793; ever since he has been appointed.

Q. What character has be borne? -

An undeniable and unblemished character, I never suspected him, or I would never have appointed him, to such a situation as I did.

Mr. Const. Perhaps, as Walker was under you, you can tell me whether all the goods were not delivered by virtue of that order? - I do not believe all were delivered.

Court. I see that both these orders are signed by Walker as delivered, of course, these goods must be delivered. I ask you when they sign their goods delivered, whether it does not mean the delivery of all the goods that are charged to be delivered? - It certainly does. I should suppose so.

Q. Then I understand from you, that when they are signed, you would understand by the signing of them, that these specific goods have been delivered? - Undoubtedly, without they put down part delivered.

Court. But these are both wrote delivered.

Mr. Knowlys. There is an order comes to you, or the locker attending, to deliver so many goods specified - Yes.

Q. Does it necessarily follow, that you are to deliver them all at one time? - No, it does not.

Q. Then if they are not all delivered at one time, then that warrant is a warrant to deliver all that do remain after that time.

Court. As to these warrants they are signed delivered? - We must sign that these goods have been delivered at the time.

Q. Here are the orders of the specific goods Walker has signed, these goods to be delivered. Don't you understand them as delivered, when he has signed them delivered? - I should understand them as such.

Mr. Const. Do you happen to know whether there was any indigo left in this warehouse after May, from the beginning of November? - I believe there has, only part taken at that time, the merchants take them away as they please after the duties are paid.

Q. You do not speak positively what quantity of indigo was there? - I will not swear positively.

Q. Do you happen to know of any order of goods that was to be delivered on the 8th of November? - No, no order of mine that I know of.

Q. Could there have been of any body else? - That I don't know.

Q. Could there be of any body that has a right to be obeyed, if they had given such an order? - I don't know. A landing waiter might have sent such an order.

Q. Did you ever hear of any? - No, I did not.

Court. Did you ever hear of a land waiter sending an order? - But many times the orders are sent, not to me, but to the locker, and I don't know of them till the locker brings them to me.

Mr. Const. Mr. Cole sent to you to complain? - He sent to me, and I attended him directly.

Q. Did you account for this transaction the same way as you do now? - I could not say any such thing.

Q. We know you could not, but I want to know whether you did? - I did not. I am not situated at the warehouse, my office is situated at some distance from the warehouse.

Q. Perhaps then, every part of the business may be transacted without your knowing it? - No, with respect to receiving in, or delivering out, they render me an account.

Q. Then you had no notice of this before? - No.

Q. How soon afterwards was it you looked back to these warrants, these orders, when you heard a man, whose cha

racter you have given, and who was in your own employ, charged with this offence? - I have the papers in my drawers. I looked for them the same day. or the day after.

Q. Did you in your drawer, find these papers that you have produced? - I did.

Q. Then he could not have been acting under that order now? - No, he had delivered that ever since May. I am the warehouse-keeper, and therefore all orders and directions the locker returns to me as vouchers of my authority, I had this order, but the warrant was not in my possession.

Q. You say you deliver by virtue of the order. Pray is this door secured by different locks? - It is by the crown and the merchants.

Q. Could you who call yourself acting for the crown, have got to the warehouse, without the key entrusted to the merchant? - No.

Q. Did you send for that key, that day? - No, I do not, the locker receives the keys at eight o'clock in the morning, and afterwards they are in their possession.

Mr. Knowlys. The order had been made out as far back as May last? - I presume so.

Q. Therefore he had a right to deliver out this parcel of indigo? - Undoubtedly, on the part of the crown.

Q. Does he have the key? - The workmen belonging to the Bull porters have the key in the warehouse, they are in possession of the keys, all of them.

Q. Therefore if you was going there on business, you would not have gone back to the counting house to ask for the keys, if their servants were there? - If their servants are there they have the keys, they are in a bunch.

Court. I understand you now; the free warrant that you stated to me, that was as long ago as May, the goods in that warrant might have been delivered as free from customs, but when there is a free warrant; still I see that is delivered at different times, as appears by this order; I sec by these two papers, these two papers that have been delivered, have come into your hands, because they are signed by them as delivered. Now I ask you this, that if in the month of November any more of these goods had been delivered, if in the ordinary course of business he had delivered such goods, would not the order have come back to you, if there had been a delivery? - There would have been no order for the delivery of the remaning things.

Q. You have stated the free warrant released the goods from the customs, but we all know that they are not taken away at one time, for these warrants prove that as the owners want them, they apply to you, and you give them this order. In the month of May he returned you this order, as goods delivered, these specific goods, in these two orders do not take in the whole of the goods that are in the warehouse? - I don't know, they may take in the whole, because there are sundry other things, bark and other things.

Q. I would ask you this as a fact, whether on the state of this order, you will swear there was no indigo to be delivered? - No, I cannot swear that.

Q. Then if there had been any to deliver, and he had forgot, would he have returned the order to you, in the common course of business, signed by him as delivered by him? - Undoubtedly he would.

The prisoner Walker called five witnesses, and Gifford thirteen, who gave them most excellent characters.

Thomas Walker , GUILTY. (Aged 32.)

Robert Gifford , GUILTY. (Aged 50.)

Recommended by the jury, on account of their good-characters .

Transported for seven years .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. RECORDER.

Reference Number: t17941208-62

61. JOHN FRANKS was indicted for uttering a counterfeit shilling .

JAMES REDHEAD sworn.

On Sunday the 27th of July last, I was walking down the Strand , close by Child's door, the bankers, I observed the prisoner was selling apricots ; I bargained with him for five apricots, I gave him a shilling, he put it in his mouth to bite it, and returned it to me, and said it was a bad one; I gave him another, he affected to bite that also, and returned it to me, and said it was not a good one, and then I pulled out several shillings, and there was one with a head on, and he said, give me that with a head on; by that means he got at my hand, I had five or six shillings in my hand; after he had got a shilling out which he liked, he said he had not a six-pence, but if I would give him two more shillings he would give me half a crown I gave him two other shillings, and he was some time fumbling in his pocket for money and he pulled out a vast many half crowns, and I observed to him, good God, you have got a vast deal of bad money here, you must be an utterer of bad money; he offered me three or four half crowns which were bad ones, at last he gave me one which was a good one. I went into the Temple-gardens, when I got into the Temple-gardens I was very much dissatisfied that I had left the man, and I went up to one corner of the garden and examined my silver, and I observed three shillings quite bright, just new, that I could not have had in my possession without observing they were bad.

Q. What do you mean by quite bright? - As if they had not been in circulation; I could not have seen them in my possession without knowing of it. I knew I had not changed any of my silver that day, nor had I taken any silver in my possession that day. I was very much dissatisfied with myself, and I was determined to find the man; I came back and he was gone from the spot. I supposed he might be gone up towards the park; I followed him, at Somerset house I observed him, he was there selling his fruit, I went past him and took no notice, and I found two men that seemed connected coming to him and talking to him, sometimes taking the fruit out of his basket. I soon found that these two men were connected with him.

Q. Did they exchange any thing else besides fruit? - I did not see.

Q. Did they cross over frequently? - So often that I was pretty sure that they were connected with him, and I thought it would be rather dangerous to attack the man by myself, for I was determined to take him. I went to a constable, and all the time this man and another man of the name of Lazarus, were beating their way up towards the Park. The constable, whose name was Bewley, did not like to encounter this man, with the men that I told him of, and we found another constable of the name of Hyde. Bewley, after I spoke to him, said he would get another man and desired me to watch the prisoner, and I believe the prisoner observed that I watched him, for this man still kept going up by the side of him; they knew that I was watching them. When Hyde and the other constable came to me I pointed him out,

and they took him; I said, that was the man we took in the Strand, and he was carried up to St. Martin's watch-house. Lazarus, when he was taken, was at the distance of about five hundred yards; I had observed him before, but I did not know that he was alarmed at any thing that had passed between me and the prisoner; but in going up Round-court, Lazarus was making his escape another way. He was another Jew also selling fruit.

Q. Was he either of these two men that you saw at Somerset house? - No, he was another man selling fruit at about five hundred yards from this man; he was taken, but discharged. When the prisoner at the bar was taken, I did not observe those two men that had before kept by the side of him, but after he was in the watch-house these two men came to the door, and I desired the constable to go and take them. The moment the constable opened the outside door, these two men made their escape; these men were connected with him I have no doubt.

Q. What time of the day was this? - After church in the morning, between one and two o'clock. Half after one.

Q. As you was taking Franks to the watch-house did you meet Lazarus? - We met Lazarus, turned him about, and took him to the watch-house, and he threw something from him into the prisoner's basket; about six and thirty bad shillings. I told him the prisoner had enough to answer for without his throwing his bad silver in. The prisoner was searched, there was a good deal of good silver about him, indeed all that appeared about him was good.

Q. How many shillings do you believe were changed? - Three, I have had them wrapped up in paper. They were very bright, they are now very much discoloured indeed.

Mr. Knapp. When he returned you the three shillings back again, did you put them in your pocket before you went into the Temple-gardens? - I did.

Q. I understand you that about the person of the prisoner, though searched, there was no bad silver at all? - There did not appear to be any.

Q. How much silver had he about him? - About two guineas worth, and all good.

Q. The money that you state to be bad, and found, was thrown into the prisoner's basket? - It was.

Q. Were there any sixpences found about him? - Yes there were some.

Q. You apprehend that he changed the shillings by pulling them out of his mouth that he gave to you; - I suppose so, because he affected to bite those shillings I gave him, but I did not find any bit ones in my possession.

Q. He gave you at first two? - He did.

Q. Then he must have had two in his mouth, and the shillings that you gave him in return must have remained in his mouth? - I don't know what he did with them.

Q. How long was it from the time you met him at Messrs. Child's house, and the time you went back again to Somerset house? - In the outside, twenty minutes.

Q. This young man you had never seen before? - No.

Q. There were a good many jew boys in the streets, especially in the Strand, selling fruit, I take it for granted? - Yes, I don't remember any other that day but Lazarus and this. The two that were going with him were not dressed as selling fruit. One was dressed very genteelly and the other very shabby. I understand that the prisoner is a glass grinder by trade, but he sells fruit on Sunday.

Q. We know very well that from the Temple to Somerset-house, there is no occasion for twenty minutes? - I went from Child's door to Temple gardens to meet Mrs. Redhead, who was there, and he was pursuing his journey on.

Q. What did you do with the money after he gave it you? Did you put it into your pocket? - I did.

Q. Did you put it with the other money? - I did. When he gave it me back I supposed that I might have given him the shilling.

Court. When he was examined, did you find these bad half crowns about him? - Not one of them.

Q. What became of them you do not know? - I can only guess.

Mr. Knapp. I wish to know whether among the silver that was found on him, there were not some good half crowns among them? - There were, but these half crowns I had in my hand, and I am certain that they were bad.

Court. You are sure that these three shillings you produce now, were not in your possession before your dealings with this man? - I am certain I could not have looked at them without knowing they were bad.

JOSEPH BEWLEY sworn.

I am a constable; on Sunday, July 27th, a little after two o'clock, Mr. Redhead came to my house and said he was an officer, and as we went out of the door, he said, he believed one would not be enough, he asked where I could get another? and I went and got another, and we went and took the prisoner immediately, just opposite Bedford-street, in the Strand, we searched him and there was nothing bad found on this man, there were seven and thirty shillings apparently all good, and there was something thrown in a basket.

Q. Did you see that? - I did not. I searched the other prisoner before the Lord Mayor.

Q. Did you look into the basket? - I did not, I believe the other constable did.

Q. He was taken before the Lord Mayor and there he was bailed, and now he surrenders to meet this trial? - He did.

- RYDE sworn.

Q. You was present at the taking of the prisoner? - I was.

Q. What did you find on him? - I see Lazarus heave one pound twelve shillings, or one pound thirteen shillings, into Frank's basket, in the watch-house.

Q. And what was in the basket when you looked at it? - It was all bad. I delivered it to the solicitor of the mint.

WILLIAM PARKER sworn.

(Looks at the shillings.) These are all counterfeit.

Mr. Knapp addressed the court and jury in behalf of the prisoner, and called four witnesses to his character.

GUILTY . (Aged 21.)

Imprisoned six months , and to find security for twelve months .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Reference Number: t17941208-63

62. MARY LEWIS and JANE FARSHAW were indicted for uttering a bad shilling .

A second count for having another in their possession.

WILLIAM PALMER sworn.

I am a shop man to Mr. John Jackson , a grocer, in Watling-street .

Q. Look at the prisoners at the bar. Do you know them? - Yes, I do the tall one.

Q. Did you see them at your master's shop on Friday the 21st of November last? - The tallest, Mary Lewis , she came and asked for tea and sugar, which I immediately served her, she gave me a shilling, and I took it of her, I noticed it by a particular mark it had on it, I took it and put it in the till.

Q. Did you see that shilling again before you saw the prisoner again? - No.

Q. When did you see the prisoner again? - When the constable brought them in, about a quarter of an hour after, and the constable asked me if there had been such a person in my shop, and I could not immediately recollect, till I saw the prisoners.

Q. What past when they were brought into the shop? - The constable asked me if they had been in the shop? I said, the tall one had, and they asked me if they had left any bad money? My master looked into the till, and picked out this shilling I had taken of them, and said it was a bad one.

Q. Can you swear to that shilling, as the one that was given to you by the prisoner? - Yes, I can.

Q. Mary Lewis only, the tall one, came into your shop? - Mary Lewis only.

Q. Then all you know is, that that woman came into your shop and purchased some tea and sugar. What did she give you for it? - Three-pence.

Q. She gave you a shilling, you gave her change, and that shilling you put in the till. How many more were in the till? - Ten or a dozen shillings.

Q. Did you examine all these shillings? - No, my master took up a handful of shillings and took this one out.

Q. He did not know that was the shilling you had taken of this woman? - No, but I knew it by the cross on it.

Q. Did you examine all the other shillings? - No, I did not.

Q. Then you don't know but what some of the others might have the same mark? - Yes, they might, I did not examine them. I see no necessity for that as I could swear to her giving me that one.

Q. It does not seem a mark sufficient to swear to.

Not GUILTY .

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Reference Number: t17941208-64

63. THOMAS HARRAN was indicted for obtaining money under false pretences .

WILLIAM PHILPOT sworn.

On the 23d of October, Thomas Harran met me in Cornhill . I drive the Chelsea stage for Mr. Smith; he called to me at the corner of Bank-street, in Cornhill, as I was coming down from Chelsea, and gave me this parcel.

Q. At what time of the day? - Eleven o'clock. He told me it was for my young master, and I was to deliver it to him alone.

Q. What is your young master's name? - John Smith . He told me he brought it by the Canterbury or Cambridge coach, I cannot be certain which, and I gave him the money for it.

Q. What did he ask for it? - He said it came to five shillings and sixpence.

Q. For carriage or what? - He did not say.

Q. What did you understand the five shillings and sixpence was for? - For carriage and porterage altogether.

Q. Did you know him before? - I knew him by driving one of the Richmond stages for Mr. Rix.

Q. Are you sure this is the man? - Yes.

Q. Had you any more conversation with him? - No, none. This is the parcel.

Q. What did you do with it? - I took it down to my young master himself, and when he opened it, there was nothing but blank paper in it.

Q. How was it directed? - To Mr. Smith, junior, Chelsea, to be delivered to him alone. That was on the outside of it.

FRANCIS BAILEY sworn.

I am a constable. On Saturday the 25th of October, the prisoner came to me with a paper parcel in his hand and demanded eight shillings and sixpence. I took the prisoner.

JOHN SMITH sworn.

I only know that I paid the money to my man, five shillings and sixpence. When he brought me the parcel he desired me to open it alone. I said I had no affairs of secresy, I would desire he would see me open it. He told me before I opened it who it was that gave it him.

Prisoner. It was done when I was in liquor; I own myself guilty of the fact. Judge Perryn has known me a great many years, and never knew any harm of me; it is a fact I never was guilty of before. I am forty years old. I have a wife and eleven children that I maintain, eight of my own and three of my sister's. I have distressed my parents so much through this misconduct that I have not troubled them. My father now serves Judge Perryn.

GUILTY . (Aged 40.)

Imprisoned twelve months and to give his own security for 50l.

Tried by the London Jury before Mr. COMMON SERJEANT.

Reference Number: o17941208-1

GIBSON'S trial postponed until next Sessions.

Reference Number: o17941208-2

WILLIAM WOOD , sentenced at a former session for transportation for life, was put to the bar and accepted his Majesty's mercy, on condition of transportation to the eastern coast of New South Wales for seven years .


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