NUMBER VIII. PART I. for the YEAR 1761.
Printed, and sold by J. SCOTT, at the Black-Swan, in Pater-noster Row.
M. DCC. LXI.
King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery held for the City of London, &c.
Robert Smith . I am a silk-dyer ; I was not in the way when the prisoner was detected; there was found upon him a quantity of knitting-silk; but the other witnesses can give the best account of the matter.
Q. What do you call knitting-silk?
Smith. It is what they make trimmings for womens cardinals of; it is in the weaving way.
Q. Did you know the prisoner before?
Smith. I have known him 20 years, but never employed him.
John Pratten . On the 26th of September the prisoner came into my master (Mr. Smith's) dye-house, to ask for work; I said my master was not at home; he staid in the dye-house about 10 minutes, and took his leave of me; and instead of going out at the door, he went up-stairs. I followed him, and saw his pocket stand out. I charged him with having some silk in his pocket. He immediately pulled out some knitting silk, and begged of me to excuse it, and say nothing about it. [Produced in court by the constable.] This is it, it was delivered into the constable's hands when he was charged with the prisoner.
Q. to Prosecutor. Look at that silk?
Prosecutor. This is the property of a person I do business for; I had the charge of it, and it was under my care, with five or 600 weight more.
Pratten. When I charged him with having something in his pocket, he took this silk out of his pocket, and threw it into the chimney, and I took it up.
I had no thoughts of touching the silk, I went to ask for work, being out of business; I saw only that young man; I imagined Mr. Smith might have more men at work, and it is customary to ask them all to drink a draught of beer. I went up to see if there were any men at work above; he, seeing me go up stairs, followed me; I was turning down again; he said, I had taken something.
Charles Leignes. On the 11th of September, the prisoner was hired into my service; after she had been there a little while, she told me a strange woman had entered the house, and stole two shifts, and a handkerchief; and upon examination we found they were pawned in the prisoner's name.
Q. Where were they pawned?
Leignes. One shift was found at the corner of St. Martin's-lane. We took her and that before the justice, where she confessed the other shift and handkerchief were pawned in West-street, Seven-dials. The justice sent for them, and the pawnbroker brought them.
John Noteley, servant to the other pawnbroker, was called, and did not appear.
The prisoner said nothing in her defence.
Guilty 10 d.
Notely came into court just as the verdict was given, and saved his recognisance.
William Roppey . I live at Chertsey bridge; last Thursday morning the prisoner at the bar was driving a parcel of sheep; I take it there were about thirty of them; he had them in a meadow. I knew them to be Mr. Wood's property, by the brand-mark, T. Wood. The prisoner drove them over the bridge; I asked him where he was going with them? He said, he was going to put them to grass. He drove them almost to Littleton, and some men talked hard to him, and he drove them back again over the bridge; and the shepherd met him, and brought him to the house where I live.
Q. What is the shepherd's name?
John Foot . I am shepherd to esquire Wood, I put my sheep in the sold on Wednesday night; and when I came to the sold, on the Thursday morning, between seven and eight, there were 27 of them missing. I went to Chertsey-bridge, and met the prisoner on the road with them, bringing them back again. He said, he found them by Chertsey-pound, and found nobody belonged to them, so he was bringing them back again, and said, he hoped I would give him something, he had taken 32 of Mr. Goodwin's sheep. I said, go there, perhaps he will give you something. After we had talked to him some time at my master's (Mr. Wood) he owned he was very hard drove for money, and he thought to drive them across the country, and sell them, to put himself into ready money. Then he was committed.
I picked up the sheep by the side of the road in a green field, and drove them along, and thought it the best way to bring them back again, which I did.
288. (M) George James , was indicted for stealing one linnen shirt, ruffled, value 18 s. the property of George Heyley ; one linnen shirt, ruffled, value 18 s. the property of William Clark ; two dimity-robes, value 2 s. two dimity-skirts of a coat, value 1 s. and one pair of silk-stockings, value 18 s. the property of John Cornhill , September 24 . +
Q. How came you to see him then?
E. Taylor. I saw him look over into our house; my mother lives at Hornsey, and takes in washing; she is very lame, and very hard of hearing; I fetch cloaths for her to wash, and carry them back again. About three in the afternoon, on the 24th of last month, we were drinking of tea, I heard the fall of something like a key; I went to the gate, and turning my head, missed the things mentioned; I ran and saw the head of a man, but he going down the hill, I lost sight of his head.
Q. Where were the things taken from?
E. Taylor. From off of a pair of chest of drawers; I had just ironed them; I called for help, and Charles Elison and I were half an hour looking about for the man, knowing he could not be got far. At last we found the prisoner hid in a ditch, and all the things tied up in a handkerchief, and a hat laying by the things. He owned the hat to be his, and said, he thought the parcel was a quantity of apples, and that another man had given them to him. We found him but a very little way from my mother's house. [The things mentioned in the indictment produced, and deposed to as the property of their respective owners.]
As I came along by the side of the house, a man had got this bundle, tying it up in a handkerchief; he asked me if I would go along with him, and I should have half of what he had. I went with him, he went on the other side of the hedge, and so did I; he got away and left me with the bundle, and my own hat was left with it in the ditch.
Q. to E. Taylor. Did you see two men?
E. Taylor. No, I saw only the prisoner. Elison is servant to a gentleman, and is not come.
Elison came before the prisoner was taken from the bar.
No evidence appeared.
289. (M.) Dorothy, wife of William Morrison , was indicted for stealing one black cloak, value 20 s. one half firkin, value one penny, one pewter pot, value 2 d. and one tin lamp, value 2 d. the property of Robert Mason , March 24 .~
Robert Mason . I live in Peter-street, St. James's. I took three empty rooms of the prisoner's husband, and came into them the 24th of March. I brought my goods up stairs, the chest of drawers were too big to go up; one of the drawers was open, where my wife's best things were. I left that below, with a cloth over the cloaths, and went to fetch the rest of the things up; I missed my wife's black silk cloak the next morning, which I had seen in the drawer over night.
Q. Had you carried that drawer up into your room?
Mason. I had. As to the firkin, that was what I had nailed a bale on, so as to make use of it for a pail, that and the other things being all in it, were missing. We found the pail about four or five months after upon the prisoner. On the 5th of July, my wife was looking out at our window; she said, Bob, there is my cloak. I said, your cloak, you foolish woman you! how should it be your cloak? I look'd out, there was a woman in the street, a stranger to us, had such a one on. My wife said, I will go down and stop her. Said I, people will think you are mad; I will go and follow her. The woman went into Orchard-street, and into a good handsome house. I stood about half an hour at the door, and concluded she lived there. I came back and told my wife. Said she, Bob, we will go to-morrow, and inquire what she is; I should know it, could I see the lining, by two spots. We went next morning, my wife knock'd at the door and went in. I staid at the door. She staid there about an hour, and came to me, and said, Bob, I have seen the inside of the cloak, there are the two spots, it is my cloak. The woman told my wife she bought it of the prisoner at the bar. I went home, and got a constable, and charged her with selling my wife's cloak. Said she, I bought it at a pawnbroker's. Said I, does a pawnbroker sell my wife's cloak. The woman that had it came the next morning with the cloak, and told her to her face, she bought it of her for 13 shillings. The prisoner said, she could prove where she bought it, and made a laugh at it. The other woman
Q. What is that woman's name?
Mason. Her name is Martha Robintson ; the prisoner owned she sold it to her for 13 s. We all went with the constable to the pawnbroker's house, where she said she bought it at the corner of Crown-Court. The cloak was shewed to the man; he said he knew something of it, he thought he had seen it at his house, but was not sure. After that, he said, he knew nothing of it, and bid us begone; but the man that had lived there, and was gone, whom the prisoner said she bought it off, lived in Fleet-street, as the pawnbroker told us. Then we went to the justice, my wife swore to her cloak, the justice committed the prisoner to the Gatehouse. After that, my wife said to me, Bob, there is your pail, the prisoner had got some water, and her mop in it. I asked her what she did with our pail, and what was become of the things that were in it; we never found the other things.
Q. How came you to let her out?
Mason. Her husband said, he would make us satisfaction. I said, I did not care, if the justice agreed to it.
Q. Who was the justice?
Mason. Justice Wright, he never bound us over to prosecute.
Q. How long after she was in the Gatehouse, did he discharge her?
Mason. I believe she was there but two days.
Q. Did you receive any thing?
Mason. They promised to give me 3 s. for a blanket I had lost.
Q. Was any agreement entered into before the justice?
Mason. No, he said, have you agreed it? I said yes, the man would have paid the money, if he could have got change for a guinea, but he could not get change.
Q. When did you take out the warrant against the prisoner?
Mason. On the 6th of July.
Q. How came you to take her up a second time?
Mason. Because she said, she would go and transport the old bitch, (meaning my wife) for concealing a felony.
Q. Was any thing done in the Marshal's court?
Mason. There was a verdict against us; they got acquainted with one Jack, Matthews, he swore my wife struck the prisoner with a quart pot, full of beer, on the arm and breast, and spit in her face.
[The prisoner being a foreigner, and could not speak English, an interpreter was sworn.]
William Mace . Between seven and eight, in the morning, on the 27th of September, I lost my watch in Southampton-street, Bloomsbury, it was taken from the head of my bed, I got up, and went about my business, and had left it hanging. I am building a house, and I was in that house till I can dispose of it. The prisoner came under pretence of taking that house for a lady, he had been there about three weeks before. After he was gone, I missed my watch. I suspected him, but did not know where to find him. After that, he was taken up and committed to New-prison, for another offence. Then I went to justice Fielding, and got an order to search him. I went to the prison to him, he was searched in my presence, and my watch found upon him. [ Produced in Court, and deposed to.]
Thomas Street. I keep the tap in the New-prison. The prisoner was committed for stealing a hat, in an apothecary's shop, the prosecutor came to have him searched. I saw him with it in his hand when searching. I had a great deal to do, to wrench it out of his hand; it has been in my custody ever since, this is it here produced.
I had cured the man of the foul disease, he having no money, he gave me this watch, in part of payment, saying, I came teising him from time to time.
Mary James , widow , June 1 . +
Q. What are you?
Q. Did you know the prisoner before?
A. Holbert. She was a lodger in my mistress's house, she asked me for three gowns, I gave them to her; she said, she would bring them all again, and put them into their places.
Q. Where did you take them from?
A. Holbert. From out of my mistress's shop.
Q. Do you know what she did with them?
A. Holbert. No, I do not. I never saw them since.
This is a drunken girl, and has no body to lay this thing to but me; she was daily robbing her mistress.
293. (M.) Richard Watkins , was indicted for stealing one blue surtout coat, value 5 s. one brown cloth coat, value 6 s. one brown cloth waistcoat, value 1 s. the property of Henry Clinton , and one pair of leather boots, value 3 s. the property of John Clinton , October, 2 . ||
Henry Clinton . I am a blicklayer's labourer . The prisoner lay along with me. I missed the things mentioned in the indictment, and the prisoner was missing also. He was taken afterwards, and being charg'd, he confessed they were in pawn at the three Blue-halls, in Swallow-street, and that he had pawned them there, and they were found there accordingly.
John Clinton . The prosecutor and I are brother's children. He missed his cloaths, and I my boots were missing at the same time. I lost other things also, but they are in another indictment. Being taken in his ready furnish'd lodgings, we got a warrant, and took up the prisoner, and he confessed where they were pawned before the justice, and they were found at Mr. James's, in Swallow-street.
The prisoner said nothing in his defence.
He was not tried on the other indictment.
Elizabeth Parker . Samuel Parker is my husband. I live in Water-street, in the Strand, it goes down out of Arundel-street , the prisoner is a stranger to me; she came between 12 and one o'clock on the 12th of this instant, she said, she wanted turnips. When she got in, she said, she did not want turnips, she wanted to make water.
Q. What is your business?
E. Parker. I sell greens; then she said, if we had any nice Savoy, or things, she should want some. The next morning, she stay'd in the house, and pretended to know me, and asked me how I did, and said, she had been a customer to me last winter. I said, I did not then sell greens, but I sold wood. Then she said, it was wood that I served her with. She said, I had forgot her since she had been at Tunbridge. I said, if I had known her, I had forgot her; we were going to dinner, she dined with me. Then she said, she was going to a play, and said, she should want something to-morrow morning, and that she had got something that she would give me. She said, she would treat me with a play one night or another. My husband came in, she asked him how he did, and said, God bless me, have you forgot me too. She said, I might as well go with her that night to the play. She pulled out half a crown, then she wanted to change a guinea, and pulled out some guineas (as I thought.) As I could not change her guinea, she asked me if I could lend her some silver.
Q. How long did she stay?
E. Parker. She stayed three or four hours; she borrowed two shillings of me. She said, I had better leave my ring at home; saying, there were bad folks might take it from me. I pulled it off, and laid it in the corner of my
David Davis . I live in the Borough, by St. George's church. I took the ring of the prisoner at the bar in pledge, (Producing one, deposed to by prosecutrix.] I was before the justice, and heard the prisoner, own to the taking the ring. She would have paid me for it, but the justice thought she was too well versed in the business.
I never was guilty of such a fault before.
For the Prisoner.
Q. What is her general character?
Smith. To the best of my knowledge, it is very good and honest. I married her sister.
Q. What are you?
Smith. I am a waiter at the George in George-alley, York-buildings, she once lived at the Spotted-dog, by St. Clement's church.
Q. to Prosecutrix. Is this the man the prisoner left you in the care of at the play-house door.
Prosecutrix. No, it is not.
Q. What does she do for her livelihood?
Smith. I have not seen her for six months.
295. (L.) Mary Crouch , otherwise Crouchifer , and Sarah Smith , widows , were indicted for stealing one brass fire-shovel, one copper drinking pot, one china-mug, one table-cloth, and two aprons , the property of Samuel Gleyne , October 3 . ++
Samuel Gleyne . I keep a publick-house , I lost the things mentioned in the indictment, at divers times; the fire-shovel I lost near four months ago, they constantly frequented my house, the place where they live was contiguous to my house, they lived together, and fell out on the 26th of September; they are two sisters , each accused the other with stealing my things. One said, the other had stole my fire-shovel, and pawned it at Mr. Hart's in Grub-street, for 2 s. The other charged her with robbing me of my copper warming-pot, and china mug, and several other things, and that they were pawned in Petticoat-lane. I went and found the shovel at Mr. Hart's. Then I went to Mr. Wallice's, in Petticoat-lane, and found the copper-pot, and the china-mug. There was on the china-mug a silver rim, but they had taken that off; there I found two checque aprons.
Q. Was Smith with her when she brought them?
Wallice. No, she was not.
Prosecutor. They both owned before my lord mayor, to the stealing of these goods. Smith said, she took nothing but the fire-shovel.
Wallice. I was before my lord mayor, I think they both owned it there. [The constable produced the other things; deposed to by the prosecutor.]
The woman that gave them me to pawn, is with child by the prosecutor, and she is kept out of the way.
I took the shovel from under some rubbish, where I put my basket in the prosecutor's tap-room, it was in my basket.
Both Guilty .
Mary, wife of John Hughes , was indicted for stealing one man's cloth coat, value 16 s. one cotton gown, value 14 s. one apron, value 2 s. one handkerchief, value 1 s. and two clouts , the property of Humphry Poole , Sept. 27 . ++
Humphry Poole. I am a ticket-porter , the prisoner was my servant , she lived with me three weeks and three days, she told us she had carried the gown out to be washed, and aprons, and handkerchief: we asked her after them several times; she said the washerwoman had not done them: we did not miss the coat till after she was gone; on a Saturday night, between 10 and 11 o'clock, she said she could not stay any longer, and she must go away that night. I said that was leaving us at a nonplus; she said, it does not signify, I shall not lay another night in your house: she said she would come for her wages in the morning. When she came on the Sunday morning, she trembled as she was taking up her money. I said, What is the matter? She said I do not know, but something frightens me. She said she was going to hire herself on Tower-hill. After that, we had word brought us that we should never have our things any more, tho', by looking about, I missed my coat. I found out the prisoner, and charged her with taking the things; she owned she had given the gown to one Elizabeth Tillet to pawn. I have found the gown and coat again.
Mary Poole . I am wife to the prosecutor, I left the prisoner to look after my family; I wanted my gown to be cleaned, she said she would wash it; then she pretended she could not please me, and had put it out to be washed. She has since owned she took my apron and handkerchief out of the drawer to wear.
Joseph Ward . I was ordered to go to the pawnbroker by Mr. alderman Cokayne, with the prisoner, and Elizabeth Tillet , who said the prisoner gave her the gown to pawn; there it was delivered to us. I found the coat also where the prisoner directed me. ( Produced, and deposed to.) Tillet carried that also.
The woman that carried the coat paid the money for it.
Prosecutor. I asked the pawnbroker, (he is not here) he says there is not a farthing paid.
Ward. The pawnbroker delivered the coat readily, without any money at all. I told him he must attend the sessions, but he is not come.
Prisoner. This is thro' a bad husband he has been at the expence of this prosecution.
297. (L.) Mary, wife of James Maynard , was indicted for stealing six pounds weight of worstead, value 15 s. and two ounces of silk, value 4 s. the property of Robert James the younger , Sept. 21 . ++
Robert James the younger. I am in a separate business from my father, I am in the weaving-branch in the lace way , I employ several people: I missed small parcels time after time out of my warehouse, but could not tell but what I might have made mistakes. About the beginning of September my boy saw my servant-girl, who is daughter to the prisoner, in my warehouse. I being informed of it, examined the girl; she told me she got in by opening a trap-door, from off a heap of coals in my cellar, and took goods away, and buried them under the dirt, in a corner of the cellar, and the mother used to come and take them away: she has been examined by her mother's friends, and gives the same account, that none but her mother perswaded her to it.
Q. Was her mother (the prisoner) by at the time?
James. She was, but she said it was a falsity. The girl declared the same in the presence of her mother, before my lord mayor.
Q. What quantity did you lose?
James. It is impossible to say that, it may be an hundred-weight, or it may not be a pound. I have missed goods for above a year, but will not swear to any particular quantity. I asked the girl before her mother, how much she had taken away: said she, it has been going on for above 12 months. Said I, have you been and taken goods two, three, or four times? She said, Sir, I am sure it is above twenty; sometimes one, two, or three bundles at a time; that is, half-pound bundles.
Q. What is the value of a half-pound bundle?
James. I'll say a shilling value. The woman was examined before my lord -mayor; she declared she was innocent; my lord would have had me taken out a search-warrant; but I said, as she was employed at tassel-making, I supposed it was all work'd up immediately.
Q. Did she say the mother took them from the place where she put them, or that the girl gave them to her?
James. She said the girl used to give them to her.
Q Was this in the presence of the mother?
Q. How old is the girl?
James. She is in the 14th year of her age.
Q to Prosecutor. How did the girl say her mother came by them?
Prosecutor. She said she used to take them out of the cellar, and deliver them to her in my kitchen, when she came to see her. The girl declared before the lord-mayor, she never took an ounce of goods out of my house in her life, but she delivered all to her mother in the house.
Q. How came you to be so wicked?
M. Maynard. My mother bid me get some.
Q. Who is your mother?
M. Maynard. That is my mother at the bar.
Q. What quantity might you have got for her?
M. Maynard. Sometimes a bundle, sometimes two at a time.
Q. How many bundles, upon the whole, do you think you have taken?
M. Maynard I cannot tell; I hid them in the cellar till my mother came to fetch them.
Q. from Prisoner. At what particular times had I any worsted of you?
M. Maynard. On Sundays in the afternoon I have delivered some to you very often.
Q. How long since you delivered her the last parcel?
M. Maynard. I believe it is about two or three months ago.
Q. to Prosecutor. When was it that the boy saw the girl in the warehouse, and told you of it?
Prosecutor. I believe that might be about the 14th or 15th of September last.
Q. to M. Maynard. How long was the last time you got some worsted, before you was seen in the warehouse?
M. Maynard. It was some time before that time, it may be about three weeks before that time.
Q. Did your master promise you any reward on the account of being a witness.
M. Maynard. No, he did not.
I am as innocent as any person in court.
For the Prisoner.
Mr. Crosdale. I am a lace-man, this good woman at the bar formerly worked for me, for about 18 months.
Q What is her character?
Crosdale. Upon my word I put a good deal of confidence in her, I trusted her considerably, I never had any suspicion of her, or found any thing amiss by her.
Q. How long is it since she work'd for you?
Crosdale. It is about 18 months ago.
Mr. Armstead. I have known her about twelve years. I am a fringe and tassel-maker. I employed her about three months ago, and I employed her husband in turning moulds for me. I never found that she wrong'd me, I believe her to be an honest woman, for any thing that I know. I have trusted her with work in the Compter.
Q. Where do you live?
E. Marlow. I live in Aldersgate-street, and am a milliner. I have had her in my house for five or six weeks together; she has had a great opportunity of robbing me had she had a mind so to do. I believe her to be as honest a woman as can be.
Margaret Giles insulted the prosecutor as soon as he was got into the Court-yard, and struck the evidence Maynard. She was secured, and brought into Court by the city-marshal, and committed by the lord mayor to Newgate.
Thomas Hunter , privately, in the shop of the said Thomas , October 17 . ||
The prisoners being foreigners, an interpreter was sworn.
Thomas Hunter , senior. I am a watch-maker and goldsmith , and live in Fenchurch-street ; the two boys at the bar came into my shop. Moll interpreted for the other. They wanted to buy a pair of buttons.
Q. Did he speak English?
Hunter, senior. He did, pretty well, so as I understood him.
Q. When was this?
Hunter, senior. I believe it was about three weeks ago; I suspected them, and watched them as narrowly as I could, but did not miss any thing. They came again, but I was not at home when the watch was taken.
Thomas Hunter , junior. I am son to the last witness; the two boys, at the bar, came into our shop on Saturday last, about 11 at noon. I was in a room at the back part of the shop; the apprentice. Richard Collings , was in the shop alone. I saw Francisco Moll take a watch from the work-bench, on the left-hand side of the shop, as they came in, and put it immediately into his pocket. I came out to him, and said he had taken something from off the board. He denied it. I think the words were, No got it. I told him he had got it, and must produce it. He put his hand into his pocket, took it out, and gave it to me.
Q. Did you see the other do any thing?
Hunter, junior. No, I did not; I carried them both before the sitting alderman, and they were committed.
Richard Collings I am an apprentice to the prosecutor; the two boys came into the shop on Saturday last; one of them produced two shillings, and said he wanted to buy a pair of buttons. I turned my head round to look at them, and my young master came and seized him, and said he had taken something.
Q. Did you see him take any thing?
Collings. No, I did not.
I took the watch up in my hand to look at it; I thought if it would suit me, I would buy it. The gentleman came and took hold of me directly; I had no intention to steal it.
Q. to Hunter, junior. Are you sure he put the watch into his pocket?
Hunter, junior. I am sure he did.
Q. Which pocket did he put it into?
Hunter, junior. To the best of my knowledge he put it into his right-hand waistcoat-pocket; I believe it was the green waistcoat he now has on.
Baptista acquitted , Moll guilty 4 s. 6 d.
Prisoner. I cannot stand a trial; I am guilty of the fact, and leave it to the mercy of the court; I am very willing to serve his majesty.
300. (L) Edward Bartlam , was indicted for stealing one pair of leather shoes, value 3 s. one pair of leather-pumps, value 3 s. one pair of womens stuff shoes, value 3 s. and three muslin neckcloths , the property of Job Heath , October 19 . +
Job Heath. I am a shoemaker , the prisoner was my porter, a weekly servant ; I had intelligence the prisoner had behaved ill towards me, and got a search-warrant; and in searching his lodgings in Castle-court, Whitecross-street, I found the things mentioned in the indictment, my property.
Q. Had you missed them before?
Heath. I had not. [Produced in court, and deposed to] I gave the prisoner in charge to the constable, he acknowledged the goods were my property, and that he had taken them from me.
The prisoner said nothing in his defence.
John Burch I never saw the prisoner before the 8th of this instant to my knowledge; I am a gangsman on the keys in the merchants business, some of my partners were weighing sugar on the 8th of this instant; one of them had occasion for a quarter of an hundred weight, he came to me, and said, have an eye to Cox's key , for there are people there garbling rice. I went, and saw the prisoner at the bar come down stairs from a garret. When he came to the bottom, he shut the door, and shut himself in, and there he would peep out. At last he popt out, and ran up the gateway. There was a cart which he could not get by, there I over took him. He said, for God's sake don't meddle with me, I never
Q. Who does the sugar belong to?
Burch. I do not know.
Thomas Grigg . Burch called me to his assistance, he said this man had robbed him of some sugar We found upon him two pockets full of sugar, about 23 pounds of it. He said he would do so no more, if we would excuse him.
Barnabas Linton . I was charged with the man at the bar, I saw Mr. Grigg cut the pocket from the prisoner's coat; there was about 22 pounds of it; he said if we would excuse him, he would never do the like again.
I was hooping some rice, and in hooping it, coming for some nails, I saw some sugar lying upon the ground among melasses; I took it up; I did not know who it belonged to. I looked to see what place it came out of, and said to one of the men, I would see who it belonged to. I put it in my pocket, and went down to see if I could find any of the men that belonged to the wharf. In coming down, that gentleman met me, and asked me what I had got. I said sugar, that I found lying on the ground. He pulled and hauled me along, and put me in such a terror! I never was in any trouble before, I labour hard for my bread, and never did take delight in either one thing or other, but hard labour; they dragged me to a public-house, and used me very ill.
Q. to Burch. Are you sure this sugar was not lying on the ground?
Burch. I am sure it was not, here is too great a quantity of it to be left so; if any falls, we take it up, and put it in the hogshead again, or preserve it.
For the Prisoner.
Mr. Wood. I believe I have known the prisoner above seven years.
Q. What is his general character?
Wood. I never heard any other but that of a very good one, he is a hard working-man.
Mr. Fenner. I have known him about four years. I never heard any thing but that of a good character of him; I never heard this 'till today.
Thomas Gibbs . I was housing sugar at Chester's-key last Monday, Henry Burch brought in the prisoner with a lump of sugar, containing about two pounds. He was taken before my lord-mayor, or a sitting-alderman, and committed. When we got him in at an alehouse by the key where he uses, in the coal-hole was his great coat, in one of the pockets of the coat was about six pounds weight of sugar. There were two large pockets sewed upon the inside of the coat, sewed up at the corners, as though they were intended for a secret expedition; they were stiff with melasses.
Henry Burch . I saw the prisoner come out of the buildings, with something under his apron; I suspected it to be sugar. We being accountable for all that is lost, I called to him two or three times: he made no answer 'till the third time I asked him what he had got: he said sugar. I bid him carry back; he would not, but went into the public-house, I said, where is the sugar? He said, here it is. I said, where had you it? He said, he took it out of a hogshead. I asked him to shew me the hogshead: we went together, and he shewed it to me, and was very abusive and unruly. I charged a constable with him, and took him to Guildhall, and he was committed. I went back, and weighed the hogshead, it wanted 124 pounds. Then I got a candle, and searched the coal-hole at the ale-house, where his great coat was; there was about six pounds weight more in the coat pocket. He said he would never do the like again, if I would excuse him. The coat pockets were stiffened with melasses.
As I polled the casks along, the sugar tumbled out, and I took it up, because it should not be spoiled in the dirt. I put it in my great coat pocket. I have been in the warehouse with Mr. Burch several times when sugar has tumbled out upon the ground; and I have asked him if I might pick a bit up, and he has said, I had better pick it up, than to let it spoil in the dirt.
Burch. No, I never did.
Prisoner. Sometimes when I have had leave from gentlemen to pick some up out of the dirt, I have carried it down in my hat, that all the world might see it. Sometimes I have been in the melasses up to the ancles, and my apron has been all wet, which made my coat pockets in that condition. I have had this great coat these nine years, and never had any other than the original pockets to this very day.
303. (L) Jane Trueman , spinster , was indicted, together with Edward Leister , not taken, for stealing one silver watch, value 40 s. the property of George Ennis , privately and secretly from his person , October 13 . ||
George Ennis . On Tuesday was se'ennight at night, between the hours of 10 and 11, I was coming down Grace-church-street , and met with the prisoner, and another woman younger than she; they ran against me, and picked me up. I felt the prisoner's hand at my fob, put my hand down, and missed my watch, and charged her with it. A man came up in a sailor's habit, and said, What business have you with my wife? Then came another man, I hear his name is Edward Leister , and have been told my watch is in his possession. I never saw it since. There was nobody else near me when I missed the watch.
Q. Where was the other woman?
Ennis. I had hold of both her hands at the time.
Q. When had you seen the watch last?
Ennis. I know I had it not five minutes before.
Q. Was you in liquor?
Ennis. No, I was not at all.
Q How did you hear Leister had the watch?
Ennis. A woman that calls herself sister to the prisoner came and told me so, but I cannot as yet take him.
Q. Is he a sailor?
Ennis. No, he is a Spital-fields weaver.
Q. Have you ever advertised the watch?
Ennis. No, I have not.
Q. from Prisoner. Did you feel me take the watch out?
Ennis. I felt her hand at the waistband of my breeches, and I clapped my hand down.
Prisoner. Then why did you not stop me?
Ennis. I asked her what she was doing.
Q. Can you swear the prisoner is the person that took the watch from you?
Ennis. I think she took it; I think to the bes t of my knowledge I had hold of both the other's hands.
Q How long were you together before you missed your watch?
Ennis. I had not hardly a minute's conversation before I missed it.
Q. Whereabouts was this?
Ennis. Just at the corner of the Half-moon tavern, Gracechurch-street.
Q. What could you have conversation with them about?
Ennis. I cannot say but it was a little of the bad sort.
Jacob Marks . On Tuesday was se'ennight the prisoner and another woman, and a Portugal sailor, were both brought to the watch-house together; the prosecutor charged them all three. I said, What, Jane Trueman . are you come here again? She was in Newgate last sessions, but she generally gets off. The prosecutor said she took his watch out of his pocket, and the other woman was concerned, and the young fellow came up, and collared him. I sent them all three to the Compter. The prosecutor swore, the next day, the prisoner took his watch. She offered to be searched, but I knew she had got them about her that would soon take the watch out of his way.
I was going to buy a bit of meat, and met a young woman going to buy a duck at Leadenhall market, for her husband's supper: Lord bless me, Betty, said I, how do you do? I have not seen you a long time. As we were talking, this gentleman came up, and put his hand under her petticoats, and then took and knocked both our heads together. She said, Are not you ashamed to serve us so. I was willing to go to the watch-house to be searched. The gentleman offered my sister three guineas if she would make it up, that he might have his watch again. I had no foul near me, but a young body, and she was sent down to Bridewell-precinct, and I was sent here.
Eleanor Brothers , spinster , September 29 . ||
Q. Where does she live?
Q. When did you come there?
E. Brothers. I came there on Monday was three weeks.
Q. Is the prisoner's a public, or a private house?
E. Brothers. It is a private lodging house.
Q. Did many people lodge there that night?
E. Brothers. I do not know of any that did, except one man that works with her husband.
Q. What did you lose?
E. Brothers. I lost the goods mentioned in the indictment. [Mentioning them by name.]
Q. Have you found any of them again?
E. Brothers. I did not find them till the day before yesterday, then I found three child's shirts two child's waistcoats, and two caps. [ One of the caps was taken off her child's bear]
Anne Pain . I live in New Gravel lane Wapping; I am a pawnbroker, the prisoner brought three child's shirts, two waistcoats, one cap, and two biggins, and pledged them with me on the 7th of October. [Produced in court]
Prosecutrix. These are my property, I have had them under my case for these three years.
Q. to Prosecutrix. What did the prisoner say for herself?
Prosecutrix. She said these things were her own.
Q. How came you by these childrens things?
Prosecutrix. I went over to Virginia to my godmother, who was also my aunt; she left them to me. I have a great deal of cloaths besides these things. These were taken out of my box in the prisoner's house.
These things are my own; one of the caps she took off my child's head, which I bought in the Change two years ago. At the same time she says her box was broke open. She lay in the same bed with me. Three days after she had been in my house, she sent to me to know if she had left such a bundle of child-bed linnen in my house. The other woman that stands there, said, she offered them to sale. I never saw any such things; she complained her box was broke open, while in my house.
Q. to Prosecutrix. Where is the cap that was taken from the child's head?
Prosecutrix. It is here. [Producing it, compared with the other, they agree.]
Q. to Mackdaniel. Look at this cap?
Mackdaniel. I know this to be the prosecutrix's property.
305 (M.) Thomas Wisely , was indicted for stealing five guineas, two half guineas, and one shilling give money numbered; the money of James Solloway , in the dwelling-house of the said Wisely , September 29 .~
James Solloway . I live in the parish of Bethnal-green, at a place called Paradise-row. I came to town on the 29th of September, to take a lease of my house. When I returned, I called at a cheesemonger's that I trade with in Rosemary-lane, and then called upon a tallow-chandler, and ordered some candles; as I knew the prisoner, and was a-dry, I went into his house, I called for a pint of beer.
Q. Was you acquainted with the prisoner?
Solloway. No, I never had any conversation with him.
Q. How long have you known him?
Solloway. I believe I have known him three years.
Q. Where does he live?
Solloway. He lives at the king George the 3d, it formerly was the prince of Wales's head . He came to me, and said, how do you do, my worthy sir? I said, how does your wife? He said, she is at hell by this time I hope. He said, these poor times, I have to better beer than two-penny. I said, daw me a pint of two-penny. Then he said, why should we drink beer when we can get better liquor. Then I called for six-penny worth of rum and water, he took hold of my coat, and made me go into a little room, and water was brought there to us. We drank twice each, then I throw'd down six pence, and came out of the room. Then the prisoner pulled me back again, and said, you shall have my six-penny-worth. I said, I did not desire that; he ordered
Q. In what pieces?
Solloway. It was five guineas, and two half guineas, and a shilling. I said, do you think I look like a person that would sconce your house. The prisoner laid hold of my wrist, and took it out of my hand, and said, I know what to do with money better than you do, call upon me to-morrow. Said I, what do you mean by that? he goes to the woman at the bar, and asked her for some halfpence, and then came and laid down five halfpence, and said, there is all the money I have of yours. Then he went and had some dispute with a man; the man went out of the house, and the prisoner followed him in at Ingram's. I went after him, there he asked me to drink, and went up to the bar. I said, I would not drink with such a scoundrel as he was; there was the man that he followed in. I told the prisoner, he had better give me my money. He said, by the heavens, I wish it was 50 l. When Mr. Ingram found what money he had got of mine, he said, he would not give me five farthings for it. I called for a shilling's worth of rum and water, and said, if you do not give me my money, you shall hear from me by an attorney, before this time to-morrow. I held the candle to him, and said, tell me if you have got my money. He turned his face aside, and said, if I jaw'd him any more, he would run his fist in my face. Then I went down to the watch-house, and the officer came with assistance, and took him to the Tower-jail; they would not admit him there, because we had not a mittimus from a justice. The prisoner had there, I believe, four bottle, of wine, but I did not drink with him. Then they brought him to the Watch-houses there he said till about three o'clock. Then he got up a quart pot, and laid hold of the door, and said to the watchman, I will cleave you down, if you do not let me go, and went away directly. The next morning, we found him in his own house.
Q. Was he drunk or sober?
Solloway. He was not in liquor as I know of, I did not perceive it.
Q. What did you mean by that expression, of hearing from you by an attorney?
Solloway. Because I thought he was a resolute sort of a man.
Q. Did you think he took it with a view to steal it?
Solloway. He could not take it with any other view.
Q. How many people were there in the house, when he took the money?
Solloway. I cannot say justly, I saw a woman with a candle and lanthorn, and another man, and the woman in the bar, and a man that I offered the remains of the liquor to, of the first six pennyworth.
Q. Was you ever in company with the prisoner before?
Solloway. No, never.
Q. How came you to go in there?
Solloway. Because I was thirsty.
Q. Did you ever get your money again?
Solloway. No, I never had it again.
Q. Who did you carry the prisoner before?
Solloway. I carried him before justice Pell, there I charged him with taking my money, and told him much the same I have now.
Q. What did he say when taken up?
Solloway. He said, he had not taken the money; but after the warrant was served upon him, he came readily to me, and said, why should we fall out.
Q. Had you a woman with you, when you went went into this house?
Solloway. No, I had not.
Q. How many persons were there in the house?
Q. Was there a man in a pig-tail wig?
Solloway. There was.
Q. Was the prisoner searched?
Solloway. No, he was not.
Q. What was the whole you lost?
Solloway. All I lost was five guineas, two half guineas, and one shilling.
Q. What did you say you had lost at Ingram's?
Solloway. I said I had lost six guineas and a shilling.
Q. Did not you say you had lost your watch?
Solloway. I put my watch into my waistcoat pocket, and afterwards said, I believed I had lost my watch as well as money. But immediately I put my hand in my pocket, and found it; and said, I had not lost it.
Q. Where did you find the prisoner the next morning?
Solloway. I found him at his own house?
Q. Who was the man the prisoner had the quarrel with?
Solloway. It was one Merideth.
Q. At what time?
Merideth. The 29th of September, I was at the prisoner's house that day, in the evening, about eight o'clock; I went in, being very dry, and called for a pint of beer.
Q. Did you see the prosecutor when you first went in?
Merideth. I did not; but I did before I went away.
Q. Give an account of what you saw pass between him and the prisoner at the bar?
Merideth. They told me they had nothing but two-penny; then I said, let me have a pint of two-penny. I took out two-pence to pay for it, being in a hurry to go home; I believe it was only small beer instead of two-penny. I stood with my back towards the fire-place, and never sat down, the prisoner was sitting; in came the prosecutor, with a stick in his hand, all alone, he called for a pint of beer; the prisoner reply'd, we draw no beer now, nothing but two-penny. He said, well, let's have a pint of two-penny. The prisoner took a pint in his hand, and turned about to the table, and said, my worthy, why should not men chear their spirits these poor times, let us have better liquor, rum or punch; let's have six pennyworth of rum and water; the gentleman said, make six pennyworth. He took the gentleman by his left arm, and drew him into his little room, and then he turned to the bar, and the punch was made in a minute's time, he carried it in to the gentleman. I staid with my beer in my hand, and concerned myself with no-body. The prosecutor got up, and said, he was to be at home by seven o'clock, He came out, and offered the punch to me, I said, I had a pint of beer in my hand already, I had rather be without. He said, it would do me no hurt. I received it out of his hand, and put the pint of beer down on the end of the table. Then I saw the woman come out of the bar, and take my beer, and put it on a high shelf upon the bar. The prisoner took the bowl from me, and said, he would be six pennyworth with the gentleman, and desired him to walk into the little room again, (I thought it was not right to take my beer away, but I dare not ask for it.) They sat down again, and then he fetched the rum and water in, and shut the door, and shut the gentleman in, and took me by the neck and shoulders, and turned me out of the house neck and heels; he beat me, and used me very ill, and fastened me out. I got and looked thro' the window, and saw the prisoner go to the bar, and put his hand over it, and I thought he took a book. I heard something rattle in his hand. He had torn my coat, and I was in a trembling sort of a way. I was looking through the window, at the first box going in at the drinking-room.
Q. Did you see the prosecutor come out of the little room?
Merideth. I did.
Q. What did he do?
Merideth. He bid the prisoner good night, the prisoner took hold of his hand, and came as far as the street-door. The prosecutor had the door four or five times in his hand, and the prisoner would not let him go out; the woman at the bar said something about the reckoning, then he turned the prosecutor round, and made him sit down in a box very near me. I heard the prosecutor say, you do not apprehend I appear like a person that would go without paying my reckoning. I saw him put his hand into his right-hand pocket, and take out some gold, and throw'd it down, and said, here is four or five guineas, and, to the best of my knowledge, I saw something white, I saw five golden guineas,
Q. How much silver?
Merideth. About seven or eight shillings; as he was taking up his silver, the prisoner took hold of his wrist, and said, you make a mistake, in saying there was so much, and put his h ands into the prosecutor's fingers, and said, let me count it, and see whether there is so much or not. He took it out, and said, I know better what to do with the money than you do; call upon me to-morrow, and I will tell you what to do about it. I held by the place where the shutters, goes in, and recovered myself, I thought this was a misdemeanor. I went in again, and asked him if he would oblige me with a pint more of drink.
Q. Did you see what the prisoner did with the money?
Merideth. I saw him put it into his right-hand waistcoat pocket, he was dressed in white cloaths trimmed with silver, coat and waistcoat. The prosecutor asked him for his money several times, and he would not give it to him. After that, I saw he was used ill; he talked some odd outlandish talk, I could not understand it. He said to the woman at the bar, give me three pennyworth of half-pence. This was when the prosecutor was asking him for his money again. The prisoner said, here are all the guineas I have got, and told down two-pence halfpenny. As he put it down, he said, here is one, two, three, four, five. Then directly he got up, and said to me, you rascal, get out of the house, and beat me all the way from there into Ingram's house, and tore my coat and waistcoat again.
Q. How far is the prisoner's house from Ingram's?
Merideth. It is the very next house, only the passage between that goes to Wellclose-square. After he had beat me from the door; I saw him returning; then I run in at Ingram's, then he followed me, and beat me all the way.
Q. How long was he in beating you?
Merideth. I do not think it was above a minute and a half, he came into Ingram's house, and beat me against the fire-place, and called me scoundrel and villain. The prosecutor followed him in directly. The prisoner called for a three halfpenny glass of rum, and asked the prosecutor to drink with him; the prosecutor said, how could you use me so, and then to ask me to drink with you? I said you had better give the gentleman the five guineas, and two half guineas, you robbed him of. After the first time you turned me out of the house, I saw you rob him, but never saw you give it him again, I will take a safe oath of it I heard the prisoner tell the prosecutor, he wished it was 50 or 60 guineas, instead of six guineas. He called for a shilling' worth of punch, but the prosecutor would not drink with him. Then the prosecutor said, let me have a shilling's worth of punch, I will not drink with him, I will drink by myself, or with you. After he had paid for the punch, he went out, and told the prisoner he should hear from him between that time and Saturday. Then he went out, then the prisoner had the impudence attack me, and said, I had the man's six guineas. I pulled my cloaths off before Mr. Ingram, and got them on again, and went out to see if I could see the prosecutor again, but I could not find him for three or four hours. I was going home, and before I came to the watch house, I made an outcry, and asked the watch, if they had seen the gentleman that had been used ill; they asked me who it was; I said, it was a person that I had seen ill used. There I found the prosecutor in the watch house, this was in the morning: the prisoner was then got away. The prosecutor said, it was an unaccountable thing the watchmen did not take care of him, when they had him in their custody.
Q. Where did you spend all that time, after you went from Ingram's?
Merideth. I went up and down to see if I could find the prosecutor.
Q. Was you before the justice the next morning?
Merideth. I was, I went with the prosecutor, and lay with him at an acquaintance of his.
Q. What time did you get up?
Merideth. I got up I believe between six and and seven o'clock.
Q. Where did you go after you got up?
Merideth. I went with the prosecutor to justice Pell's, immediately after we got up, and Mr. earch went with us; there was a warrant granted, and we went to the prisoner's house, and took him; I had been there before that morninig
Q. How long before you went with the warrant, and took him up?
Q. Who went with you?
Merideth. The prosecutor and the constable, we watched at the door a while. The constable went in, and brought him out, and we took him before the justice.
Q. Where did you stand at the time you saw the prisoner take the prosecutor's money from him?
Merideth. At the sash-window, just without-side the door.
Q. Was the shutter shut or open?
Merideth. It was not shut.
Q. How much company was in the room at the time?
Merideth. I saw them all go out, there was no body then but the prosecutor, the prisoner, and the woman at the bar; there was a man and woman went out backwards before.
Q. Did you observe any body else in the room?
Merideth. I did not.
Q. What day was this?
Merideth. This was on Michaelmas day.
Q. Could you see plainly?
Merideth. There were candles in the room, one was at the table where the money was taken from, and another at the bar.
Q. Which way did the window face, that you looked in at?
Merideth. It faced the street.
Q. And did you see the prisoner take the money away?
Merideth. I did, he took it away by force.
Q. Did the prosecutor spread the silver before, or after the gold was taken away?
Merideth. He did before; he no sooner spread the silver, but the prisoner had hold of the gold in the other hand.
Q. How came it the prosecutor did not cry out murder?
Merideth. I did not hear him cry out murder at all, he only said, he used him very ill.
Q. Did you go into the house again after that?
Merideth. I did.
Q. What had you done to the prisoner, that he fell a beating you?
Merideth. I never offended him in my life?
William Pearch . The prosecutor went to my house that night; he had not been gone above an hour, before my man called me up, and said, he was gone to the prisoner's house. I got up, and went to the prisoner's, and asked for Mr. Solloway.
Q. What time of the day was this?
Pearch. This was after ten o'clock; he asked who is Solloway? I said a man in black, that had been at your house; he said, he knew nothing of him. I said, I hear he has lost his money; I had not done talking, but Mr. Solloway came in with the headborough, and gave him charge of the prisoner. Then the prisoner charged him, and they went to the Tower jail. I heard the prisoner say, if the prosecutor would not be impudent, he could help him to his money. Sometimes he would say he knew nothing of it; but this he told me before he came to the watch-house.
Q. What money?
Pearch. I do not know what money. I had heard that he had lost some money, and I was persuading him to let the prosecutor have it.
Q. Where did you go after that?
Pearch. We went to the watch-house, after that, I was there. The prisoner went away while the keeper of the watch-house was gone for some beer, he was taken again the next day at his own house.
Q. Did you hear him confess any thing?
Pearch. No, I did not.
Q. Was you before the justice when he was there?
Pearch. I was.
Q. What past there?
Pearch. Nothing material.
Q. Whether the prisoner once owned he had taken any of the money?
Pearch. He did not own to me he had taken any of it; but he said to me, he would help him to his money, if he would not be impudent.
Oliver Smith . I am headborough, Mr. Solloway came to my house, and told me, he had been robbed by Wisely, at his own house, and insisted upon my going with him. I said he is a powerful man, I must have assistance. I took four watchmen with me; Wisely was standing at the corner of his own house (I thought they had been gambling.) I said to him, Tom give this man his money again; said he, I have got no money. I took him to Mr. Ingram's, there
Q. What did he mean by that?
Smith. I suppose it to be a guinea; he put his hand in his pocket, and gave me a bit of money, which I thought to be a guinea. I never saw it, but delivered it to him again. Then we went again to the watch-house, there I left them while I went home for some beer; and while I was gone, he forced himself out of the watch-house. The next morning Mr. Pell sent for me, he granted a warrant, then I went to the prisoner's house. he was up stairs. I sent word I was come; he said, I am here Oliver. I said let's go and make an end of this foolish nonsensical affair.
Q. Was he drunk or sober the night this thing was done?
Smith. He certainly was in liquor, but I cannot say very much.
Q. Was he able to judge what he was about?
Smith. Yes, that he was.
Q. What did you mean by making an end of this foolish nonsensical affair?
Smith. Because I could not have taken him by force, if I had not made slight of the thing. We went to the justice's house, his worship was out. Then the prisoner said, come Oliver, we'll go to your house, and have six-pennyworth of rum and water. When we were there, he came to the bar, and popped a half guinea into my hand, and said, there, take care of me, or take care of it. He gave me one shilling, and I gave him 6 d. for the reckoning, then he insisted upon going to justice Scott's; we went there, he was not at home; by the time we got back again, justice Pell was come home; I took him there, and he committed him.
Q. Did he give you this money to buy off the prosecution?
Smith. He gave it me to take care of him.
Q. What to see that things were done as they should be?
Smith. I believe he meant to speak a good word for him, and wave off the evidence, to soften matters as much as possible.
Q. Did he say such a thing?
Smith. Yes he did
Q. What were his words?
Smith. He said, to take care of him.
Q. Did you understand that, to soften the evidence?
Smith. I did.
Q. Why should you not as well understand it to let him escape, or swear for him?
Smith. No, I could not understand it in that light.
Q. Did you inform the justice of peace with this matter?
Smith. I did; as soon as the prisoner was committed, I came directly again to the justice, and told him, I never saw the first piece which he gave me till then; that was a 6 s. and 9 d. piece.
Q. Why did you not acquaint the justice with that before?
Smith. Because I thought proper to see him safe in custody for it.
I will give an account of the six and 9 d. I came down that night, and put my hand in my pocket, and said, here is 6 s. and 9 d. and I will go home to bed, if you will let me go; he will go and get some beer for the watchmen; I keep a publick-house myself, and we shall have a joval night of it, this is a drunken-fellow. I gave them a shilling, and said, go for a gallon of beer; the constable said, I will go for it myself. I said, you are a very pretty fellow, having me in charge; Solloway and I had sat together some time; I said, Mr. Smith stays a long time, I can go home. We agreed before Mr. Smith's face, to go home and come again. and meet at Mr. Smith's house; when Smith came, I was gone, I went to bed. In the morning, he and Solloway came to my house; my girl came up and called me, and said, here is Mr. Smith, and two or three gentlemen, below; I came down in my shirt, and said, Mr. Smith, what is the matter? He said this troublesome vagrant fellow is teasing me. I suppose them two Molls have touched him, and got his money. They d - d him for a fool, and said, he was a foolish dog, or he had catched them. Said Mr. Smith, Tom, I have got a warrant against you. Then we went to justice Pell's house, he was not at home; then he said,
Court. The charge against you is, that you robbed Solloway of five guineas, two half guineas, and a shilling, in your house; confine yourself to that; what answer can you give to it?
Prisoner. When Solloway came into my house, he sat down in a box, and two women along with him. He called for a pint of two-penny; when it came, the women said, they would not drink two-penny. I looked at them very earnest, as I saw this Solloway, lolling between them, just like a ship in stays. I said, Sir, you had better get up, I believe you have had liquor enough; said he, I will please the girls fancy, I will have six pennyworth of rum and water, they drank it out, and left some of the twopenny in the pint pot. The women both got up, and walked out at the door, and shut it after them; he put his hand in his pocket, and said down six-pence. I took it up, and got a groat of the women at the bar, and laid it before him on the table; then he said, d - n it, I must go and get a bit for my cat, he opened the door and walked out. Said the gentlewoman at the bar, he has not paid for the rum and water; said I. a man of his appearance would not go away without paying six pence. In about a quarter of an hour after, he came in again, and lolled his head down, and called for six-penny worth of rum, and water. He seemed to loll about a quarter of an hour, then in came this man, he had a piece of stick in his hand, he brought it to my nose three or four times, and said smell to it; I said it had a very fine scent, I thought it was with intent to give my nose a pinch; so I made him go out of the house.
Q. to Constable. Did the prisoner talk to you about any women being in the house, and having picked Solloway's pocket?
Constable. He did before the justice, but not to me.
For the Prisoner.
M. Meads. It was on Michaelmas-day.
Q. Did he come alone, or in company?
M. Meads. He came in with two women, and sat down in the right-hand box between the women.
Q. How were they dressed?
M. Meads. One had a cotton gown on, and the other a silk gown and cardinal; they called for a pint of twopenny; he laid down sixpence to pay for it, and my master gave him fourpence out of it. The women would not stay any longer with him, without they had better liquor to drink. Then he called for six penny-worth of rum and water. They staid 'till it was drank out; then the two women went out of the house, and Mr. Solloway followed them in about five or six minutes after. I made it my business to shut up the windows immediately. The curtains were drawn before. The women and he had some words, and he returned in again, and asked for his four-pence change out of his sixpence; then he called for six penny-worth of rum and water more.
Q. Did the women come back with him?
M. Meads. No, they did not; then he seemed to fall asleep, and Merideth came in presently after, and my master put him out by the shoulders, and he returned my master two or three blows; then he returned in again. My master said, Friend, you will not be easy 'till I charge you with the watch. Mr. Solloway drank with Mr. Merideth, and they went out together.
Q. Did Solloway come into your master's house any more that night?
M. Meads. No, he did not.
Q. Did you see your master take any money from Solloway that night?
M. Meads. No, I did not; I never saw any money betwixt them, only sixpence.
Q. If any thing had been of his taking money from him by force, should you have seen it?
M. Meads. I should.
Q. Were the windows shut up before Solloway went out of your house?
M. Meads. They were before he came in the second time, and the curtains were drawn before I lighted the candles; I was in the tap-room all the time.
Q. What time did they first come in?
Q. Was you in the bar.
M. Meads. I was not.
Q. Who was in the bar?
M. Meads. The gentlewoman was that is about taking Mr. Wisely's house.
Q. What occasion was there for your staying in the tap-room all the time, if you was not in the bar?
M. Meads. There was a great deal more company in the room, and I had nothing to do at that time of night.
Q. Where was your master?
M. Meads. He was with two gentlemen, but I do not know their names.
Q. Who were in the room at the time?
M. Meads. There were several sailors, and a woman and her husband, and another woman.
Q. Are you sure there were two women came in along with Solloway?
M. Meads. Yes; one of them had on a loose stuff-gown; the other a striped silk, and black cardinal.
Q. What is the usual time to shut your house up?
M. Meads. We sometimes shut up at ten, but on Saturday nights eleven is the farthest. Merideth did not stay; he had got a piece of a stick in his hand; he broke it, and put it on the fire, and said it would serve to light the fire.
Q. After Solloway and he went away together, what became of your master?
M. Meads. He was then in the little room, and in about half an hour after my master went out to a house down the alley.
Q. Did he not go out for half an hour after they were gone?
M. Meads. He did not 'till that time; I was not out of the house all the time.
Q. Was Mr. Solloway in that little room?
M. Meads. No, he was not.
Q. Was that room-door shut or open?
M. Meads. It was open.
Q. Are either of those two gentlemen here, that was with your master?
M. Meads. No.
Q. Could any body see into that little room from the tap-room, without going into it?
M. Meads. Yes; they could see through the tap-room window.
Q. What time did the people come the next day?
M. Meads. I believe between nine and ten.
Q. Where was your master?
M. Meads. He was then in bed; I went up, and told him some gentlemen wanted him, and he got up and came down.
Q. Who came for him?
M. Meads. There were Mr. Smith, Mr. Solloway, and several other people.
Q. How much liquor had Solloway at your house?
M. Meads. He had two six penny-worths, and a pint of twopenny.
Q. Was he drunk or sober?
M. Meads. He was very much in liquor, indeed.
Q. How was your master?
M. Meads. He was not much in liquor.
Q. How long did you stay there?
Sutherland. I staid 'till a quarter before ten.
Q. Was there any dispute between Solloway and Wisely?
Q. Had you that pig-tail wig on which you have now?
Sutherland. I had.
Q. Was you there before Solloway, or did you come in after he was there?
Sutherland. I was there before he came in.
Q. Were the window-shutters shut?
Sutherland. I cannot answer for that, but I can be certain that the curtains were drawn.
Q. Did Solloway come in alone?
Sutherland. He had two women with him; he called for a pint of beer; the women did not care for beer, they wanted better liquor.
Q. What sort of beer was it he called for?
Sutherland. It was twopenny; upon which he called for six penny worth of rum and water: they drank it, and the women went out, seemingly to me laughing; and Mr. Solloway followed them for five or six minutes. My ship-mate and I had done drinking, and we went out.
Q. What was that ship mate's name?
Sutherland. A name-sake of mine; named Sutherland.
Q. Did you see the prosecutor come in again?
Sutherland. I saw him come in a little time afterwards, seemingly to me he staggered; that is all I know.
Sutherland. No, there was not; I never heard any more of the matter. The next day I was called before his worship, Mr. Pell.
Q. What passed there?
Sutherland. I gave the justice an account that I saw the change on the table, whether it was silver or gold I cannot say.
Q. Did the prisoner insist upon your making an affidavit?
Sutherland. He did.
Q. Did you make an affidavit?
Sutherland. No, the justice did not chuse to take it.
Q. Did you give the justice the same account there as here, about the two women coming in with him?
Q. Did you give an account there, that you saw them go out, and he with them?
Sutherland. I never was asked that; the justice asked me much more then, but he would not give me my oath.
Q. Who were in the prisoner's house at the time the prosecutor was?
Sutherland. There were the prosecutor, two women, me, and my name-sake, a woman in the bar, and some people in the little room backwards.
Q. Did Solloway go into the little room?
Sutherland. I did not see him go in while I was there.
Q. What are you?
E. White. I am Mr. Ingram's maid; he stood by me, and took his watch out of his right-hand fob, and put it into his left-hand waistcoat pocket. Said he, I have lost my watch. I said, do not say so, you have got it in your pocket, and shewed which. My master was smoaking his pipe by the fire-side; he got up, and said, you have got your watch there.
Q. How soon after he came did he complain he had been robbed?
E. White. It was about ten minutes before he said any thing; he charged Merideth with it, and said he had robbed him.
Q. Do you remember seeing the prisoner there?
E. White. I do.
Q. What time did he come in?
E. White. He came in better than half an hour after ten at night.
Q. Was he there while Solloway was there?
E. White. He was, they had a shilling in punch together.
Q. Did Solloway drink any of the punch?
E. White. He did.
Q. Are you sure of that?
E. White. I am sure of it.
Q. How soon did Wisely come into the house after Solloway?
E. White. They came in together, and drank a shilling in punch together.
Q. Do you remember Wisely calling for there half-penny worth of rum?
E. White. I do not; when Solloway came in first of all, he said he had lost five guineas; then he went out, and came in again, and said he had lost five guineas, two half guineas, and a shilling.
Q. Did he mention who took them from him?
E. White. He did not; first of all he said Mr. Wisely, then he said the other man, Merideth, robbed him.
Q. Did Solloway and Wisely drink together as good friends?
E. White. They did, they drank together several times.
Q. What became of the story of the robbery all that time?
E. White. They all went out at the door together; Solloway went to fetch an officer.
Q. Did Mr. Smith come there?
E. White. He did, and another gentleman.
Q. Did you hear any body talk of sending an attorney to Mr. Wisely.
E. White. No, I did not.
Q. What time did Mr. Smith come in?
E. White. He came in about half an hour after ten o'clock; the prisoner staid at our house all the time; and they went all out of our house together, and we shut up the door, and went to-bed.
Q. to Smith. Did you see the prosecutor and prisoner drink together at Ingram's house?
Smith. When I got the prisoner, we went in at Ingram's, and Wisely had some punch there; he wanted me to drink, and I would not; then he wanted Solloway to drink; he said he would not drink at all.
Q. to White. Did you see Wisely go out of the house?
E. White. No, not 'till he went out with the rest.
Q. How far does Mr. Smith live from Ingram's house?
E. White. About as far distance as it is from here to the Sessions-house gateway.
E. White. No, he did not; I heard Solloway say over and over, that he had robbed him.
Mr. Ingram. This Merideth ran into my house about ten o'clock, and Wisely ran in after him, beating of him over the head, crying, D - n you, you scoundrel. I jumped up, and said, I will have no noise here. Wisely said, Make me a shilling's-worth of punch. Then Mr. Solloway came up, and said, Tom, you have robbed me of my money; you took five guineas from me. Then he said directly, it was five guineas, two half-guineas, and a shilling. Wisely said he knew nothing of it. Then Solloway turned about to Merideth, and said, You have got my money. In about ten minutes, Wisely said to him, Will you drink? No, said he, I will not drink with such a scoundrel as you are.
Q. Did he drink with him?
Ingram. I believe I drank with him; I believe Wisely did not. Then Solloway said, I believe you will have my watch by and by; and took it out, and put it into his waistcoat pocket. Then he said to Merideth, I believe you have got my watch. I said, you have it in your waistcoat pocket. Wisely said, You scoundrel, do you think I would take your money? and flung down ten or twelve guineas, and pulled out a pocketbook with a bank note in it of 30 l.
Q. Had he the command of a great deal of money?
Ingram. I do not know that he had; but he said to Solloway, You are a drunken, foolish fellow, you do not know how to wear money; and if he had got it, he would keep it.
Q. What time was it when Merideth came in, and Wisely came beating of him?
Ingram. I believe it was between ten and eleven. Solloway went out, and came in with Mr. Smith and some watchmen.
John Wynn . I was at Ingram's on Michaelmas-day at night, along with Mr. Ingram and his wife; I believe it was after ten o'clock; Wisely was there driving in Merideth, and hitting him several blows; the man complained of ill-usage.
Q. Ill-usage for what?
Wynn. Because he had charged Wisely with taking money from Mr. Solloway. I thought it a little extraordinary, when I came to understand he had charged him with taking a quantity of money from some person that did not then appear. Mr. Wisely called him villain and rogue, and gave him another knock. Said he, How came you to charge me with the man's money? you may have been with him, and may have taken it yourself. Said Merideth, I saw you through the window take it yourself.
Q. Do you live near Mr. Wisely?
Wynn. I am a near neighbour to him.
Q. Have you observed there are curtains to his windows?
Wynn. I have; there are curtains. Mr. Wisely called for a shilling's-worth of punch at Mr. Ingram's; it was put down upon the table.
Q. Had he called for any liquor before?
Wynn. I cannot say that he had; I never had any acquaiatance with Mr. Wisely, nor resorted to his house. After these words and blows, he drank to Mr. Ingram; presently in came Solloway.
Q. Was this after the rum and water was called for?
Wynn. It was; Solloway said to Wisely, You had better give me my money, Said Wisely, I know nothing of your money.
Q. Was Solloway in liquor?
Wynn. He seemed pretty much cut with liquor. Solloway said, If I have got it, I will keep it, for you are not capable of taking care of it. Then Solloway called for a shilling's-worth of punch, and drank to some other person that was there.
Q. Did he drink with Wisely?
Wynn. No, he did not, nor with us. First he said he had lost five guineas; then he said it was five guineas, two half-guineas, and a shilling.
Q. How did he say he lost them?
Wynn. He said Wisely took them of his hand; after that he charged Merideth with having his money, and likewise his watch. Mr. Ingram said, No, you have not lost your watch, you have put it in your left-hand waistcoat pocket; put your hand in, and you will find it; there he found it.
Q. In what words did he charge Wisely with the watch?
Wynn. He said, that as Wisely had his money, probably he might have his watch too. Merideth offered to strip; then Solloway said to Wisely, You shall hear from me between this and Friday.
Q. Was the word attorney expressed?
Wynn. No, nor no such thing as I can recollect. He went away, and Wisely continued there.
Q. Do you remember Smith the headborough coming there?
Wynn. I do; I believe Wisely came out, when Mr. Solloway was gone; but I do not know justly. When Mr. Smith came in, Wisely produced a quantity of money; I believe about eleven or twelve
Q. How do you know that?
Lacey. I have experienced it.
Q. Do you know that the curtains were drawn that night?
Lacey. No, I don't know that.
Q. What has been his character?
Hines. I have travelled with him, and laid in the same room, when I have had two hundred pounds about me, and never knew that he wronged any body in my life, nor heard any thing dishonest by him.
Q. What is his general character?
Millar. I have no heard much about him; I never saw any thing bad by him.
Charles Ratley . I live in Church-lane, about two or three hundred yards from the prisoner; I have known him four or five years; I never heard any thing of his character, but that of an honest neighbour; he paid me honestly for what he contracted with me.
James Murphy . I have known him between thirteen and fourteen years; he lived in the neighbourhood, just by me. Since he came back from sea I have been acquainted with him; I believe him to be an honest man; I never heard he defrauded any body in my life-time.
Mr. James. I have known him twelve years; he has been at sea some part of the time; since he came back I never heard any thing tardy of him, or dishonest; I never heard to the contrary but that he bears an honest character.
Q. to Solloway. Whether you was sober or not?
Solloway. I cannot say I was quite sober.
Q. Was you very much in liquor?
Solloway. No, not at all.
Q. Was you much in liquor, or not?
Solloway. No, I was not.
Q. Was you alone?
Solloway. I was; before God and man I had no woman with me; I appeal to Almighty God, I had none; I call a just God to be my judge in that.
Q. to Merideth. Was you drunk or sober?
Merideth. I was sober.
Q. Are you sure that Solloway had no woman with him.
Merideth. Yes, I am certainly sure that he had none; he came in with a walking-stick in his hand, and nobody with him.
Q. Did Solloway go there first, or you?
Merideth. I was in the house some time before he came in, about three or four minutes.
Guilty of stealing, but not in the dwelling-house .
Counsel. We will first prove the prisoner a trader, and that he owed a debt, upon which a commission could be taken out.
Q. Where did he live?
Bancroft. He kept a linnen-draper's shop on Ludgate-hill , and dealt in other articles,
Q. Was that the method of getting his living?
Bancroft. I believe it was.
Bancroft. I do.
Q. Was the prisoner indebted to him, and in what sum?
Bancroft. He was indebted to him above a thou- pounds; I think it was 1025 l.
Q. How do you know he was indebted to him?
Bancroft. I know it by the entry made in the book, that I can prove to be my writing.
Q. Do you know there were goods delivered to him?
Bancroft. I know there were.
Q. What are the entries for?
Bancroft. For goods sold and delivered.
Q. Do you know Mr. Hewet?
Allison. I do; I know I have carried a great deal of goods to Mr. Hewet, and delivered them to him myself.
Q. Do you remember the particular quantities?
Allison. I cannot say I do; here is a book which I always signed after I carried the goods out, when I came back. [Producing a large book; it is read.] Two parcels, November 16, 1759, signed by John Allison .
Q. to Bancroft. Look in this book, and tell the court what that parcel came to. [He looks into it.]
Christopher Harrison . I know the prisoner at the bar; I went to his house on the 17th of January, 1760; and on the 18th Mr. Perrott spoke to his apprentice, Richard Bagley , and desired him, if Mr. Hewet called, to say he was not at home. He likewise spoke to me, and desired I would let nobody go up stairs; he was afraid of being arrested. Mr. Hewet called, and asked if Mr. Perrott was at home; Richard Bagley said he was out, and he was then up-stairs.
Q. When was this?
Harrison. This was on the 18th of January, 1760.
Q. What time of the day?
Harrison. Perhaps about ten in the morning; I think it was near about that time.
Q. Upon what account did you go?
Harrison. I was sent by Mr. Maynard, and Mr. Hewet.
Mr. Vaughan. I am a clerk belonging to Mr. Webb's office in the Bank; I have here the bond and affidavit, upon which the commission was issued; [producing it] dated the 19th of January, 1760.
Q. to Harrison. Was the denial in order to a commission?
Harrison. That I cannot possibly take upon me to say.
Q. Was Mr. Hewet present when the prisoner was ordered to be denied?
Harrison. No, he came afterwards; there was only Richard Bagley, and me; Mr. Hewet called soon after; I had seen Mr. Hewet and Mr. Perrott talking together. Mr. Hewet went away, and Mr. Perrott came to Richard Bagley , and told him, if any body called, to deny him.
Q. Where was it that Mr. Hewett and Mr. Perrott were together?
Harrison. They were then in the farther warehouse; I did not hear what they said.
Q. Do you remember any body else that you denied him to?
Harrison. Yes, I denied him to one Mr. Buck.
Q. Was he a creditor?
Harrison. He was a large creditor.
Mr. Cobb produced the proceedings on the commission.
Counsel. Read folio first.
It is read by the clerk of arraigns.
Proceedings, examinations, and depositions, had, and taken under a commission of bankrupt, awarded and issued against John Perrott , of Ludgate hill, London, merchant, bearing date the 19th of January, 1760.
That we Francis Filmer , Esq; Arthur Trollope , and William Crawley , Gents, the major part of the commissioners, named, and authorized in it, by a commission of bankrupt, awarded and issued against John Perrott , of Ludgate-hill, London, merchant, did administer to each other, and severally take the oath appointed to be taken by commissioners of bankrupts, by the late act of parliament, for that purpose, before we proceeded to act in the said commission, and in pursuance of the said act.
Q. to Mr. Cobb. Did you see the commissioners here named take the oath?
Mr. Cobb. I did.
Counsel. Read folio the fourth.
It is read, to this purport.
At Guildhall, London, 19th of January, 1760.
That we the major part of the commissioners, named and authorized in it, by a commission of bankrupt awarded and issued against John Perrott , of Ludgate-hill, merchant, having met on the day, and at the place above-mentioned; and having proceeded to act in the said commission, have, upon good proof upon oath, found that the said John Perrott did, before the date and issuing forth of the said commission, become a bankrupt, within the true intent and meaning of the several statutes made, and now in force, concerning bankrupts, some or one of them; and we adjudge, and declare him a bankrupt accordingly.
The Second Part of these Proceedings will be published in a few Days.
NUMBER VIII. PART II. for the YEAR 1761.
Printed, and sold by J. SCOTT, at the Black-Swan, in Pater-noster Row.
M. DCC. LXI.
King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery held for the City of London, &c.
THAT the said John Perrott did, on the day, and at the place abovementioned, surrender himself to us, the major part of the commissioners, and submitted himself to be examined by us from time to time, touching a disclosure and discovery of his estate and effects, and to conform to the several statutes made concerning bankrupts: and particularly to the act passed in the fifth year of his present majesty's reign, intitled, An Act to prevent the committing of frauds by bankrupts.
It is read, to this purpose.
19th Jan. 1760.
Whereas a commission of bankruptcy was issued against John Perrott , of Ludgate-hill, merchant, this is to summon and require him to appear on the 26th of January, the 4th of February, and the 4th of March, at four o'clock in the afternoon, to make a full disclosure and discovery of his estate and effects, &c.
Q. Was this notice printed in the Gazette.
Mr. Brown. It was.
( The Gazette read, for Tuesday, Jan. 22; the purport of which was, requiring the bankrupt to attend on the 26th of January, the 4th of February, and the 4th of March.)
Counsel. Now read folio the 6th, to shew that the commissioners met.
(It is read, to this purport.)
At Guild-hall, London, 26th of Jan. 1760.
THAT we, the major part of the commissioners named and authorized in it, by a commission of bankrupt awarded and issued against John Perrot , met on the day, and at the place above mentioned, pursuant to notice in the London Gazette for that purpose; but the said John Perrott did not appear, to make any discovery of his estate or effects, or sent any excuse why he did not.
Counsel. Read folio 39, there is a new commissioner, but turn first to the page before it, there it will be seen he is qualified.
( Folio 39 read, to this purport.)
At Guildhall, 4th of March, 1760.
BE it remembred, that this being the day appointed, pursuant to notice in the LondonJohn Perrott , the person against whom the commission of bankrupt now in prosecution is awarded and issued, to surrender himself, and to make a full disclosure and discovery of his estate and effects, and to finish his examination under the said commission named, authorised, met at the time and place above-mentioned, pursuant to such notice; at which time a petition from the said bankrupt, preferred to the hon. the lord keeper of the great seal of Great Britain, paying that his time for making full disclosure and discovery of his effects, and to finish his examination, may be enlarged for the space of 46 days, to be computed from this 4th day of March instant, with his lordship's order thereon for that purpose, bearing date the 28th day of February last, was produced to, and served upon, the said commissioners. The said commissioners do therefore adjourn taking such examination till the 19th day of April next, at this place, at four of the clock in the afternoon of the same day.
Counsel. We shall now prove the notice given to Mr. Perrott to attend the 19th of April.
Q. Was the notice mentioned in the Gazette?
C. for Prisoner. We admit that; there is no occasion to read it.
Counsel. Read folio 58.
(It is read, to this purport.)
At Guildhall, London, Saturday, the 19th of April, 1760.
BE it remembred, that this 19th day of April, 1760, being the day appointed in pursuance of an order from the rt. hon. the lord keeper of the great seal of Great Britain, and the notice given in the London Gazette, of Tuesday, the 4th day of March last, in consequence thereof, for John Perrott , of Ludgate-hill, merchant, the person against whom the commission of bankruptcy now in prosecution, is awarded and issued, to make a full disclosure and discovery of his estate and effects, and finish his examination under the said commission; the said John Perrott accordingly appeared before the major part of the commissioners named in the commission; and being sworn and examined by them the said commissioners, upon his oath faith, that the plate, china, linnen, and other household furniture, of him, the said examiners, seized by the messenger to the commissioners acting under the said commission, in and about the dwelling-house of him, this examinant, appraised and valued at the sum of 9 l. 3 s. 9 d. and also the stock in trade of him, this examinant, seized likewise by the said messenger, in and about the warehouse and premisses, of him, this examinant, appraised and valued at the sum of 5055 l and upwards; but which stock in trade cost him, this examinant, at prime cost, the sum of 6000 l. and upwards; the which plate, china, linnen, and other household furniture, as also the said stock in trade, proper inventories have been taken and made, as this examinant believes; and to which inventories, as to the particulars or contents of the specifick plate, china, linnen, or other household furniture; as also of the said stock in trade therein mentioned, be, this examinant, craves leave to refer himself in the hands, custody, or power of his (this examinant's) assignees, or one of them, except such plate, china, linnen, and other household furniture, and also such stock in trade, as by accident or oversight may have been omitted in the said inventories, or either of them, but yet were in and about the said dwelling-house, warehouse, and premisses of him, this examinant, at the time of the said messenger's entry into, and taking possession thereof; also cambricks in the Royal Exchange warehouse, of the value of 2000 l. or thereabouts, where no inventory, or other appraisement, hath been taken or made, as this examinant believes; also debts, to the amount of 280 l. and upwards, due to his (this examinant's) estate, entered in the books of account of him, this examinant, in the hands, custody, or power, of his (this examinant's) said assignees, or one of them; wherof, for greater certainty, he, this examinant, hath made an abstract in writing, of sundry debtors and marks; of some with the letter A; the several particular and specifick effects of him, this examinant, mentioned and set forth in the paper-writing marked by the letter B, subjoined to his examination; which paper-writing, marked with the said letter B, he, this examinant, prays may be taken as part of this his last examination, the several examinations of him, this examinant, taken the 26th day of February last, and subsequent
Counsel. Turn to the 5th of June.
It is read, to this purport
At the Half-moon Tavern, Cheapside, London.
John Perrott . the bankrupt being present at the time and place above mentioned, and being sworn and examined, and the following questions being propounded, (to wit) As you do admit that you have spent the last week, previous to your examination before us on the 19th of April last past, with Mr. Maynard, one of our gnees, to settle and adjust your account and to draw up a true state thereof; to enable you to close such your examination; and do likewise admit, that upon such state thereof it appears, that, after giving you credit for all sums of money paid by you, and making you debtor for all goods sold and delivered to you, from your are entering into trade, to those on your bankruptcy, it appears that there is a deficiency of the sum of 13, 13 l. Give a true and particular account what is become of the same; and happend in what manner, you have applied and disposed thereof
Counsel. Now his answer.
The manner in which I have disposed of and applied the said sum of 13 513 l. is as follows.
Fitting up my warehouse in Blowbladder-street, and furnishing the same, -
Rent, and boy's wages, during my stay there, -
Travelling expences during the same, - 100
My own diet for that time, - 125
Cloaths, hats, wigs, and other wear ing necessaries, -
Fitting up my house on Ludgate-hill, - 100
Furnishing the same, - 200
Housekeeping during m stay there, with rent, taxes, and servants wages, -
Cloaths, hats, wigs, and shoes, and other wearing apparel during my stay there,
Travelling expences during my stay on Ludgate hill, -
Horses, and keeping them, saddles, bridles, and farrier's bill, during my residence on Ludgate hill and Blow bladder-street, -
Tavern expences, coffee-house expences, and places of diversion during the above time, -
Carried over, 6200
Expences attending the connection I had with the fair sex, -
Paid Mr. Thompson, for selling goods by commission, -
Forgave him a debt, in consideration of his trouble and time, in relation to getting bills accepted, and such like business, about -
Lost by goods and mourning, -
The aforesaid account is the most particular and exact account I can possibly give, how so great a deficiency appears upon the state of my account, as I never made any entry of my expences in any book, or otherwise in writing, excepting some few household and warehouse expences, entered by my servants; and the said account, according to the best of my knowledge, remembrance, and belief, is true in every particular; and I am the better able to be positive herein, that such deficiency in my accompts arose from my expences, and extravagant way of living, because I have not concealed any part of my estate or effects whatsoever, but have made a full and true disclosure and discovery thereof in my last examination.
( It is read, to this Purport.)
At Guildhall Coffee-house, near Guildhall, London, the 21st day of March, 1761
John Perrott , against whom the commission of bankrupt now in execution hath been awarded and issued, being here present, at his own request being sworn and examined before the major part of the commissioners in and by the said commission named and authorised; and the following questions, ( to wit) As you do admit that you have spent the last week, previous to your examination before us on the 19th day of April last past, with Mr. Maynard, one of your assignees, and to settle and adjust your accounts, and to draw up a true state thereof, to enable you to close such your examination; and do likewise admit, that on such state thereof it appears, that after giving you credit for all sums of money paid by you, and making you debtor for all goods sold and delivered to you, from your first entering into trade, to the time of your bankruptcy, it appears that there is a deficiency of the sum of 13,513 l. Give a true and particular account what is become of the same; and how, and in what manner, you have applied and disposed thereof.
Being again propounded to him, he gave upon oath the following answer; ( to wit)
THAT about six years ago he, this deponent, became acquainted with one Sarah Powell , otherwise Sarah Taylor, who lately lived at Weybridge, in the county of Surry; but at the time when he first became acquainted with her, she lodged at Mr. Serjeant's, an Excise-officer, in Cold-bath-fields, in the county of Middlesex; which Mr. Serjeant now keeps a bookseller's shop near Temple-bar, known by the sign of the Star, as this deponent believes. Says, that the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, at the time he first became acquainted with her, was of the age of 25, or thereabouts, and, as she informed this deponent, was the daughter of a clergyman somewhere in the West of England, but where more particularly this deponent cannot recollect. Says, that about ten months ago, and since this deponent's confinement in Newgate, he was informed by Mr. Straw, an apothecary in Leadenhall-street, that the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, was then dead; and told this deponent he had received such information from her sister, Mrs. Penny, now living in Coney-court, Gray's-inn, as this deponent believes. Says, that from the time he became acquainted with the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, to the time of his being committed under this commission, which was on the 19th of April last, there continued a familiar intercourse between them; during which time he, this deponent, expended considerable sums of money; and this deponent faith, that from Christmas, 1758, to Christmas, 1759, he expended upon, or paid, or remitted, to the said S. Powell, otherwise Taylor, the sum of 5000 l. at the times, and in the manner following; that is to say, that at Christmas 1758, he, this deponent, sent her by the post, to Weybridge aforesaid, the sum of 100 l. in Bank-bills; that such bills were common Bank-notes, (not post-bills) not taken in this deponent's own name, nor received by him from his banker; and in the month ofHenry Thompson , since deceased, who was employed by this deponent to sell goods for him. This deponent says, that no person whatever was present at any time when he delivered any of the said notes or cash to the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor. During her residence at Bath she lodg'd at one Miss Parker's in the Grove, and went by the name of Powell; and that, during the time of her residence there, she lodg'd at a toyman's in the Grove aforesaid, but the name of the toyman I cannot recollect. Saith, that he, the deponent, hath not been at Bath for this seven years last past. Says, that the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, kept house at Bath, during her stay there, as this deponent believes. Says, he don't know whether she kept any carriage during her stay there, or not. She was attended there by a man servant, named John; and by a maid servant, named Nancy; but what were their respective sirnames, or where they now respectively live, or may be heard of, this deponent knows not. Says, that the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, returned from Bath, to Weybridge, about the latter end of January, or beginning of February, 1760, where she died some time in the month of April following, as this deponent hath been informed and believes. Says, that from the time she so returned to Weybridge, to the time of this deponent's commitment to Newgate, he never went to see her but once, at which time, she was extremely ill, and dying of a consumption. Says, that the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, then knew that this deponent was a bankrupt, but never offered to return to this deponent any part of the money he had to given, and remitted to her, as aforesaid; neither did this deponent ask her what she had done with the same, or how she intended to dispose of her effects after her death. Says, he never desired any person to attend her in her last illness; nor does he know who did then attend her. Says, he kept no particular account, or memorandum whatsoever, of the payments and remittances, so remitted to her, as aforesaid, but is enabled to speak so particularly from his memory. Says, the reason of making such remittances to her, was her complaints to him by letters, that the places where she resided were very expensive; and though this deponent thought her demands very extravagant, yet he, this deponent, made her the remittances aforesaid, in order to enable her to defray such expences, and not with a view to establish a fund for her future support, or wherefrom he could draw any advantage. Says, that he continued to correspond with the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, for the space Henry Thompson , and afterwards re-delivered by the said Henry Thompson , to this deponent; and that all such letters had been since burnt or destroyed by this deponent. Says, that the reason for not disclosing the transactions between him, this deponent, and the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, before, was because it was her dying request, that he, this deponent, would not expose her to the world. And this deponent faith, that during the said year 1759, when he made such remittances to the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, he knew he was not worth any thing, and that he was remitting to her his creditors money; and that such remittances were not made in hopes of receiving any reward back therefrom. Says, he does not know any person who can now give any account of the reality of the above transactions, or of any of the above remittances, or payments; but believes that the said Mrs. Penny, and the said Mr. Straw, had heard this deponent declare, that the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, was very expensive to him, this deponent, and cost him large sums of money. And this deponent faith, that the said Henry Thompson informed this deponent, that he sold the goods of this deponent, from which the money, so paid, and remitted to the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, arose; to the several persons following, among others; namely, to Sir Samuel Fludyer , Mr. Mabbs, in Smithfield, Mr. Whiting, in Cheapside, and Mr. Pierpont, of the same; says, that the said Henry Thompson kept no particular account of the monies raised by him, by the sale of such goods, for the use of this deponent, as aforesaid. Says, that during the first year of his acquaintance with the said Sarah Powell , otherwise Taylor, she might cost him the sum of 100 l. but cannot recollect any of the particulars thereof. Says, that she removed from her lodgings in Cold-bath-fields, to a little street, in Westminster, but cannot recollect the name of the street, or the person with whom she lodged; though he, this deponent, having frequently so visited her in such her lodging, and corresponding with her there by letters for about three months. Says, that between that time, and her removing to Weybridge, she resided at several different places, but cannot tell where, or with whom in particular; neither can gave any particular account what he expended upon her, the second, third, and fourth years of their acquaintance, though the same familiarity and intercourse subsisted during all that time, as in the year 1759.
Counsel. We are going to charge him with the 13 notes mentioned in the indictment, and shall call witnesses first to prove the notes found in his custody.
Q. Was you to this?
Brown. I was.
Q. Was you imploy'd to make any search in Newgate, for any concealed effects upon the prisoner?
Brown. Yes. It was on the 25th of June, 1761; I went pursuant to the order of Mr. Cobb, and Mr. Maynard, from the Assignees, to examine his room; and Mr. Hewitt, and Mr. Salkall, went with me. Upon examining an old trunk in his room, I found a bit of cloth, tied up with some white tape; I cut it, and felt something pretty thick; in it was a bit of silk tied up; I opened that, and there I found five half bank notes. I seeing some old print upon one of them, I looked at it, and said, I am sure this is not for less than a thousand pounds, because I could see the end of the word thousand, it can be no other word. I delivered these five half bank notes to Mr. Hewitt.
Q. Look at these; [He receives five half bank notes.]
Brown. I cannot swear these are the identical half notes, they having been out of my possession; but I believe them to be the same.
Q. What particular reason have you for believing them to be the same?
Q. Is there any other sum that you can form any idea from?
Brown. No, there is not; but I do verily believe those notes to be the same which I found there, and delivered to Mr. Hewitt, one of the assignees.
Q. What are the letters you ground your belief upon?
Brown. Here is the letter, half of the word thousand upon it: [They are delivered in.]
Q. Did you search any other place than Newgate?
Brown. I went up to Mrs. Ferne's, with a search-warrant, I had searched there before; but I made a second search, and found a note of hand for 12 hundred pounds; the gentlemen with me, told me, they found some half bank-notes there; but I did not see them found.
William Hewit . I was with Mr. Brown, when he searched the prisoner's room in Newgate. I saw him take out these half notes, [Here produced,] from an old rag, which he found in a trunk. He delivered them into my hands, I took them home, and put the initial letters of my name upon them, and know them to be the same; here is part of the word Martin on one of them.
Q. What letters?
Gideon Maynard . I took these half notes out of a little box in Mrs. Ferne's apartment; she was a little riotous, and did not care I should take possession of them; I put them into the constable's hand.
Q. What are they?
Q. How many of these half notes tally with those found in Newgate?
Maynard. Here is C 272 for 40 l.
C 174 for 50 l.
K 316 for 50 l.
No. 9 for 20 l.
four of them tally. There was another note found at the same time, for 25 l. does not tally with any of the other.
Q. Did you find the other half of the thousand pound note?
Maynard. No, I did not; we carried Mrs. Ferne to justice Fielding, and I believe these half notes are entered in his book.
William Stears . I am a clerk at the Bank, there were three notes made out in the name of Martin Mathias , and given in lieu of 13 notes, brought into the Bank, by Martin Mathias ; I have them here, [Producing 13 notes.] And for those 13 notes, there were three notes taken out for the same value.
Q. What do they amount to?
Stears. They amounted to two thousand one hundred pounds; the three notes made out, were two for a thousand each, and one for one hundred pounds. Two of them were paid; one of a thousand, and one of a hundred, I paid since; they were H 214, 215, and 216. Here is James Coors on the face of the thousand pounds, but nothing on the face of the hundred pound note.
Q. Look on this half note found in Newgate?
Q. Whether on the 30th of June, there were any other notes made out to Martin Mathias, besides those three?
Stears. No, there were not as I know of.
Q. Have you examined the books at the Bank?
Stears. I have, and find no such names.
Q. Who did you receive it of?
Smith. I received it of Mrs. Ferne.
Q. to Stears. Are any of those three notes you mentioned unpaid?
Stears. There remains one note of a thousand pounds unpaid in the book.
Counsel. Look at this note for 1000 l. [He takes it in his hand]
Q. How did Mr. Cotes come by that note?
Q. What was the number of the Bank-note?
Q. When were these notes you gave him of Mr. Cotes's paid?
Taylor. The first was paid the 27th of October, 1760; the second the 29th of October, 1760; the third the 9th of April, 1761; and the fourth the 14th of April, 1761.
Q. The note of 200 l. dated the 9th of April, 1761, what did you give for that?
Taylor. A 100 l. Bank-note, a 50 l. ditto, a 30 l. ditto, and 20 l. in money.
Q. What did you give for each of them? be particular with each.
Taylor. That of the 27th of October, a 100 l. Bank-note, a 50 l. ditto, and 50 l. in money. The next was paid with a 100 l. note, a 50 l. note, and 50 l. in money.
Q. Describe them?
Counsel. That is not material.
Counsel. There are three of these that tally.
Q. Look at these half-notes, and see if they correspond? [He takes them in his hand.]
Taylor. Here is numb. 316, payable to Drummond and Co. the 26th of March. Here is another, numb. 272, payable the 2d of March, 1761. Here is another, 174, payable to Samuel and William Smith , the 27th of February, 1761. These three I find correspond.
Counsel. Here is a note of 400 l. which was paid for two bales of silk, by Thompson; and we shall prove Perrott had in his custody two bales of silk, agreeing with the mark. This note is payable to Asgill and Co. this is one of the 13 paid into the Bank.
Peter Turquand . I am now partner with Mr. Chavet; I was clerk to him; we bought two bales of silk of Perrott, on the 15th of December. Here is the bill of parcels, wrote by Thompson; it was wrote in my compting-house. We gave him 434 l. 14 s. for them; and I gave him a note of hand, payable five days after date, which note was paid at the expiration of the time, by this draught upon our banker, Sir Charles Asgill and Co. payable to William Thompson , or bearer.
Q. Was you the person that gave the note?
Donaldson. No, but it appears so in our books.
Counsel. I am going now to prove by Perrott's book, that he had silk of the quality of this.
Mr. Maynard produced a book. This is one of Perrott's books. [He reads folio 78, and 79.] A bale of silk, containg 161 pounds of silk, neat, bought the 3d of October, 1759. The other is the 3d of October, 161 pounds of silk, bought of Zackery and Filmer.
Q. Look over this book, and see if there are no other bales of silk about the same size?
Maynard. I have examined this book very exactly; I find but one bale besides these. [The bill of parcels and draught are delivered in, &c.]
Walter Powel . I am clerk to Castells and Wheatley; I remember to have received this note in part of a sum of 2,750 l. I paid it in the name of Thompson, the 11th of January, 1760, in the part of a draught of Mr. Frederick Gibson 's, Cheapside. It was payable to Mr. James Mabbs , or bearer; K. 79, to W. Forbes, 2d of January. The date I did not take down. This tallies with our waste-book. I paid it to a person named Thompson.
Q. In what manner did you pay him?
Powell. No, our books have only this draught of that day.
Mr. Gines. I am a banker.
Q. Look at this note H 39, for 100 l. the 13th of December, 1758. [He takes it in his hand]
H. 257, for 100 l. payable to Glyn and Co. the 5th of December, 1759. [He takes it in his hand]
Q. Look at C 186, for 100 l. payable to Pewteres, the 10th of December, 1759. [ He takes that it in his hand.]
Q. Did you pay these away to any person, and at what time?
Q. Upon what account were they paid?
Q. What do you know of number 7?
Counsel. These are four of the 13 notes.
Samuel Cope , I am clerk to Sir Samuel Fludyer . [He produced a bill of parcels.] Sir Samuel has bought shalloons several times of Mr. Thompson. On the 12th of December he bought to the amount of 366 l. and here is another note for 370 l. for shalloons bought of Mr. Thompson; and 13 s. was paid in cash, which made up to the amount of 736 l. 13 s.
Thomas Lee . Numb. H. 382, for 100 l. and numb. C. 262, for 200 l. were paid by my clerk on a draught of the prisoner Perrott. Also B. 253, for 100 l. and H 69, for 100 l. were paid to a person named Bentley, who came for it payable to Molinox.
Q. You say these two notes were paid to a draught upon the prisoner.
Lee. The draught was payable to Cunningham, or bearer.
Counsel. There now appear to be eight of the 13 notes.
Q. Is he living or dead?
Thompson. He is dead; he died the 28th of last October.
Q. How long have you known her?
M. Harris. I have known her this four years.
Q. Do you know the prisoner at the bar?
M. Harris. I do.
Q. Do you know of any connections between them?
M. Harris. I do, so far as she told me; I frequently heard her speak of such a person, and she has taken me to Newgate to him, and told me he was my master.
Q. What was you?
M. Harris. I was her servant.
Q. Did she tell you this in his hearing?
M. Harris. Yes, she did
Q. What did he say?
M. Harris. He consented to it, that it was so.
Q. What country woman is she?
M. Harris. She comes from Derbyshire; her father is dead; I know her two brothers
Q. In what circumstances was her father?
M. Harris. I have heard they were poor people, and kept a little farm of about 20 or 30 l. a year.
Q. What was she when you knew her first?
M. Harris. Then she was just come from a service in Watling-street, at the sign of the tea-chest.
Q. Did she receive wages there?
M. Harris. I believe she did.
Q. What was her master's name?
M. Harris. I think the name was Hanison; she lodged at Mr. Jefferson's, a grocer, by Temple bar, in Shire-lane.
Q. How did she use to appear?
M. Harrison. She had scarce any cloaths at all, nor no money at all.
Q. Did you see her when she went from that lodging?
M. Harris. I did not for about two years after.
Q. When did you see her since?
M. Harris. I saw her on the last fast-day; she called upon me, and gave me an invitation to go and see her, and I went to see her on the fast-day.
Q. How did she appear then?
M. Harris. She appeared very much in an exalted state; I was so surprized to see it, I took the liberty to ask how she came to be possessed of so large a fortune.
Q. When was this?
M. Harris. This was the 5th of last March, when I went to live with her, and also before, when I went to see her.
Q. What account did she give you?
Q. Where was the prisoner then?
M. Harris. He was then in Newgate.
Q. Did you ever go with her there to him?
M. Harris. I did, almost every day, and sometimes twice a day; I heard her tell him she had shewed me his picture, and what discourse had passed between she and I; that is, what she had told me. Mr. Perrott asked me if I thought the picture was like him.
Q. In what situation did she then live?
M. Harris. She lived in a plentiful manner; Mr. Perrott used to make her great promises how they should live when he came out of New-gate; and she told him about a house of Mr. Smith's to be disposed of. He made an objection, and said there was not room sufficient to keep a pair of horses. He said he would make her a present of a pair of diamond buckles, and a pair of diamond ear-rings, and lay out upon her 300 l. When she went to buy this house of Mr. Smith's, she took half a Bank-note for 1000 l. and said the other half was in the hands of Mr. Perrott in Newgate. They had a great deal of conversation relating to notes, and other things. When she told him that house was to be sold, he said, My dear, have you a mind for it? She said, Yes, if she could have it for eight or 900 l. Mr. Perrott said, My life for it, you shall have it, for I like the place above all things.
Q. from Prisoner. When did I promise her these diamond buckles and ear-rings?
M. Harris. I cannot exactly tell the time, but it was all within the time I lived with her; it was when we were with him in Newgate. I went to live with her on the 5th of March.
Q. to Hewitt. Was there any agreement between you, that Perrott should be denied to you, in order that he should be a bankrupt?
Hewitt. There was a meeting of a great number of the creditors at the Half-moon tavern, the night before he was denied; I believe it was the night that I went to his house. It was the night before the act of bankruptcy was committed. It was agreed between him and the creditors, that he should be denied to any one of them, that he might be a bankrupt; and he was denied to me, in consequence of that agreement; he was denied to another also.
Q. Who was that person?
Hewitt. I do not know now; I cannot recollect that; it was one of the creditors that was at the Half moon tavern.
Q. from Prisoner. Was you at my house in the morning, and in my company?
Hewitt. I was; that was previous to that day.
Prisoner. That was the very same morning.
Q. from Prisoner. Did not you go out at the back-door?
Hewitt. I believe I did.
Q. from Prisoner. Do you remember a circumstance of your asking my apprentice whether I was at home? What was the answer?
Hewitt. I cannot tell the answer.
Q. from Prisoner. Do not you remember a circumstance of your coming to ask my apprentice, Bagley, concerning his master, and he said to you he was at home, and you answered he must say he was not at home; you knew he was at home.
Hewitt. That I do not remember.
Q. from Prisoner. Do you remember my going out at the back-door?
Q. from Prisoner. Did you call upon any business to ask for money, or if I had any bills?
Hewitt. I had a note of the prisoner's, payable at a banker's.
Q. Did the prisoner owe you any money?
Hewitt. He owed me a large sum of money.
Prisoner. I had bought goods of Mr. Hewitt, upon nine months credit; none was become due then.
Hewitt. I called upon him then on account of hearing some of his bills had been returned, to know if it was true, being willing to know what situation he was in.
Q. Whether any money was due to you on the 19th of January?
Hewitt. I cannot tell; unless I look into my books; I had a draught of his upon a banker, and that was returned me; then it became necessary for me to apply to Perrott for the money.
Q. When was that?
Hewitt. Not that day, but the day after.
Q. Was it before, or after the issuing the commission?
Hewitt. It was paid after he was denied.
Q. When did he pay you that money?
Hewitt. I believe that very same day.
Q. Was not that before the issuing of the commission?
Hewitt. I did not receive the money of him after the commission was entered; the commission was issued on the 19th, which was the day after.
My lord, all I have to say is this, that Thompson sold goods is very true; but what debts he took, how he negotiated them, I cannot say. All the debts I received of him, I sent to Mrs. Powell to Bath, and Weybridge. It is a very great unhappiness to me, that Mr. Thompson is dead; what he knew he would testify. As to those notes, half with me, and half with Mrs. Ferne, they were Mrs. Ferne's own. I have laid in Newgate so long, I have none but she to support me; she has sent me a bit of meat, tea, and sugar, and those little things; and she requested of me to take them half Bank-bills into my portmanteau. I thought I should be very ungrateful, if I did not; and the reason she gave me was, her house had been attempted to have been broke open twice; and for the favours she was pleased to compliment me with, she said she thought she had some little right so to do. They asked me for the key; I gave them it. When they found these half Bank-bills sewed up by Mrs. Ferne, Mr. Brown has positively sworn they were covered with a piece of white cloth in a bit of silk. They were covered with a bit of white dimity. When I asked him to take an account of them (for I did not know what notes they were, neither did I ever see them) he would not let me, but carried them away.
Guilty Death .
307. (M) Frances Whaley , was indicted for that she being big with a certain male child, on the 29th of September , and the same day the said male child privately and secretly from her body did bring forth alive, the said male child by the laws of this realm being a bastard; and that the said Frances, not having the fear of God before her eyes; but being moved by the instigation of the devil, as soon as the said male child was brought forth, feloniously, wilfully, and of malice afore-thought, did strangle, whereof the said child instantly died . ||
Q. Did you observe her to grow big?
H. Ambler. No, I did not, 'till I found the child.
Q. Give an account of what you know.
H. Ambler. I only went to live there last quarter day. On the Friday before quarter day, I put some empty bottles, and lumber, into a closet. I had no occasion to go into that closet any more 'till the Tuesday following, then I went for a tub of coals; I could not find the coal-shovel; I opened the closet-door to see if it was there. I did not see it; but looking upon a shelf, I saw a band-box, which I knew was not mine. I pulled it to see what was in it, and found it heavy. I touched it with my finger, and imagined it was a dead child. I went down stairs, and told some people in the house, and they came up with me. We opened it, and found a dead child. Then I went down stairs, and told the landlord of the house.
Q. What is his name?
H. Ambler. His name is Kent.
Q. Was it a boy or a girl?
H. Ambler. It was a boy.
Q. Do you know who was the mother of the child?
H. Ambler. I do not know of my own knowledge that it was born of the prisoner at the bar.
Q. Was you acquainted with her before?
H. Ambler. No, I was not?
Q. Did you hear her examined?
H. Ambler. I did before the justice; there she confessed that the child was born of her, in my hearing. This was the second time she was there. I was not there the first time she was carried there.
Q. What justice was this before?
H. Ambler. Justice Welch in Long-acre.
Q. What were the words she made use of?
H. Ambler. The justice asked her how she came to hide the child? She said, she did not know.
Q. Did she say the child was born alive, or dead?
H. Ambler. She said the child was born dead.
Q. Did you examine the child?
H. Ambler. I looked at it, but never touched it.
Q. Did you observe any marks of violence upon it?
H. Ambler. I did not.
Q. Did it seem to have gone it's time?
H. Ambler. It did.
Q. Were any experiments made by the lungs in water?
H. Ambler. I saw none.
Q. Whether when you was before the justice there were any linnen produced there?
Q. Was there provision for a young child?
H. Ambler. There was.
Samuel Clay . On the 29th of September, I was informed by some of the neighbours there was a child found in the house of Mr. Kent, in Eagle-street, in the parish of St. George, the martyr. I went there, and was shewed a dead child in a hand-box in the back-kitchen. I asked who found it. They said one that was a lodger in the house. I asked where that lodger was. I was told she was not in the way. Then I asked where the maid was. They said she was gone out. I then asked Mr. Kent if he knew how the child came there.
Q. Do you know whether the child was born dead, or alive?
Clay. I do not know that.
Q. Had it gone its full time?
Clay. I am not a judge of that; I took the prisoner in custody about four o'clock in the afternoon, being told it must be her child. I asked her if she knew any thing of that child. She said she did not, and any body might search her. I repeated it over again several times. She still denied knowing any thing of it; but after some people had talked to her, she owned her master that morning had given her 3 s. 6 d. to buy a coffin to bury the child.
Q. Did she own the child to be hers?
Clay. No, she still denied that; then I asked her again, in the passage, if she knew any thing of the child, and begged she would tell me, if she knew whose it was. She said she did not know whose it was, except it was one Jenny's, that lay up stairs with her master's nephew the night before. I took her before the justice; he examined her. She denied it being her child. She was ordered to be searched. She was searched, and there was milk found in her breasts in my presence. The justice charged her closely, and desired her to tell the truth, whether it was her child, or not, Then she said it was her child, and that she was delivered of that child, the Friday before, by herself, in the back-room in her master's house. Mr. Welch asked her if she had acquainted any bedy of her being with child. She said she had acquainted one Mrs. Franket with it, about two months before. Mrs. Franket was sent for, and Mr. Welch gave her her oath. She said she knew nothing of it. Mr. Welch then asked the prisoner how she came to say she knew it. Then the prisoner said that was false, for she never told her. Mr. Welch asked the prisoner if she had made any provision for the child. She said she had, and they were in her box in her master's house up stairs, and the key was in the drawer in the kitchen. Mr. Welch ordered me to go, and take the keys, and examine the box. I did, and could not find any key to the trunk; I found a trunk with drawers in it; it was locked; I could find no key, so I forced it. There was nothing at all in it of wearing-apparel of any consideration, but two little things; here they be. [Producing two small pieces of linnen, about two inches wide, and six long.] Then I went to Mr. Kent, her master, and desired him to let me look into all the drawers in the apartment. The boy brought me two drawers; I could find nothing in them, but some caps of her own. There were none found by me that day. I was going to attend the jury, but was sent for by Mr. Kent, to let me know he had found some things. I went there, and he delivered them to me. [Producing some child-bed linnen, such as caps, a shirt, and a waistcoat.]
Q. What are you?
Clay. I am a constable.
Q. Who was the coroner?
Clay. Mr Grew was.
Q. Was there a jury?
Clay. There was.
Q. Was the child opened before the jury?
Clay. No, it was not; it lay in the room all the time the jury sat.
Q. Was a surgeon sent for?
Clay. No, there was not.
Q. Did the jury make an inquisition?
Clay. They did.
Q. to Clerk of the Arraigns. Is there an inquisition returned here?
Clerk of the Arraigns. No, there is not.
Q. to Clay. Have you seen the coroner here to-day.
Clay. No, I have not.
Q. What is his name?
George Grew , Esq; was three times called, as coroner for the county of Middlesex, to appear, and return all inquisitions found by him; he did not appear, and the court set a fine upon him of 50 l. for not appearing.
Q. Do you know any thing of the child, or how it came by its death?
Q. Have you heard the prisoner say any thing about it?
Kent. The prisoner has said since, that the child was still born.
Q. How came you to give her 3 s. 6 d. to buy a coffin?
Kent. That was false evidence; I gave her money when she went to market; but I gave her no money to buy a coffin.
Q. to Clay. Was this evidence by, when the the prisoner said, he gave her 3 s. 6 d. to buy a coffin?
Clay. He was, and made answer, it was but half a crown.
Kent. I gave her half a crown to go and buy some meat for dinner, I did not mention a coffin; I had no notion of buying a coffin.
Q. Did you know she was with child before?
Kent. I did not.
Elizabeth Franket . The prisoner came to me on Friday morning, and told me her master had a child dropt in the cellar. I went to see it, and a very fine child it was. I returned home again about my business; there was a great stir to know who was the mother of it. After that, the prisoner was taken at our house, and carried before justice Welch; there she did say, she had told me she was with child, but she never did tell me, neither did I ever think it before the child was found.
Q. Had it gone its full time?
E. Franket. I believe it had?
Q. Was it born alive or dead?
E. Franket. My judgment cannot know that.
Q. Were there any marks of violence upon it?
E. Franket. No, there was not, it was a neat child, I never saw a finer in my life, so clear a one.
Kent. I found them in my drawer, a drawer that I did not use; there were table-linnen, and this childbed-linnen I found among it, between the other linnen. The prisoner used to sit and work in the parlour, and she had an opportunity of putting the linnen there.
Q. Do you believe the childbed-linnen belonged to her?
Kent. I am sure it did.
Q. Do you know who the child belonged to?
J. Miner. No, I do not.
Q. Did you see it after it was found?
J. Miner. Yes, I did; after the jury had set upon it.
Q. Did you ever hear the prisoner say any thing about the child?
J. Miner. No, I did not.
Q. Are you a single, or married woman?
J. Miner. I am a single woman.
Q. Can you tell whether the child was born dead or alive?
J. Miner. No, I cannot.
Q. to Kent. How long had the prisoner lived with you?
Kent. She had lived seven years with me.
Q. How did she behave?
Kent. As good a servant as ever lived at a house; towards the latter end, she took to drinking a little.
The prisoner said nothing in her defence.
308. (M.) Eleanor, wife of Thomas Clark , was indicted for stealing one china cream-pot, val 1 d. eight china cups, value 6 d. seven china saucers, value 3 d. three glasses, value 3 d. one china bason, value 1 d. five books, value 4 d. two linnen caps, value 2 d. one linnen handkerchief, value 2 d. one mahogony waiter, value 2 d. and one basket, value 2 d. the property of John Gaywood , October 21 .~
Mary Gaywood . My husband's name is John, he is a gardener , we live at the Neathouses , the prisoner was my servant . Last Tuesday right she went away, and not coming on the Wednesday, we missed a cream pot; I went to Westminster, where she lodg'd, in John's-street, thinking she was not well; going up stairs, I saw her reading in a book; I looked to see, and found it to be the Pilgrim's-progress, my own book. I turned round, and saw my cream-pot; then I went to the window, there lay a Prayer-book, a Testament, and
I never was guilty of a fault before.
For the Prisoner.
Prosecutrix. She has work'd for us 20 years, I believe this is the first fact.
Guilty 10 d.
309. (M.) Eleanor Griffiths , spinster , was indicted for that she, the dwelling-house of William Alcock , feloniously , voluntarily, and maliciously, did burn with fire, against the form of the stature, &c. October 7 .~
Jane Alcock . My husband's name is William. On the 7th of this instant, when I went to make my bed, I set my candle in the window; I came down stairs, and thought all things were safe. Soon after, my husband, as he was smoaking his pipe, said, he smelt the smell of fire, it came stronger and stronger; the prisoner lodged in my house. I went up stairs, and called to her, and told her, we smelt fire; she said, it was nothing but straw burning. I went up stairs, and opened the door and the flame and smoke met me; I went down into my own room, to secure what money and things I could. Then I ran down stairs and called fire, people came in to assist me, and they put the fire out, with the assistance of the engines; the prisoner seemed very unconcerned all the time, and she telling me it was nothing but straw, and in the room there was a hamper in one corner, with straw in it, and no other place within five yards of it was on fire, it was quite out of the way for any sparks from my candle, where I had set it, to fly into it; and it is plain the fire burst out of the hamper first; I was in the room and saw it, there was a hammock-bed in the hamper.
Q. Could the fire not begin in the bed?
J. Alcock. No, it was a stock-bed, the joists over the hamper were in flames, and the fire was only at that corner.
Q. Do you know that the prisoner had lately been in that room?
J. Alcock. I only know that she went up stairs, and no-body could do it but either she or me; it was in a garret over her room.
Jane Alcock . About the time of the arrival of the queen, I went up stairs to put my cap on, and left my trunk upon the table in the prisoner's room; I missed my key, and went up again, and found my key in the prisoner's hand. The Saturday following, I went up stairs for some money, and missed 20 l. I had 40 in all, in that tin box. We imagined it was taken by a false key; to prevent that for the future, I removed the money out of the box. I asked the prisoner, if she knew of the money I had lost; she said, she knew nothing of it. I said, if my husband comes to know of it, I shall be ruined for ever. She said, I am going to Windsor, and if my uncle gives me any money, you shall have that. She went, but when she came back, she had no money. The week before the fire happened, she proffered, if I would let her go into my room, she would scower it for me. I said, I had lost too much already. The day after the queen arrived, she bought her a number of fine things; my husband and I concluded, they were bought with our money. When the fire was, I left in that same box a crown piece, two half crowns, some odd buttons, and a ring; the prisoner did not know that I had removed any. I had left my room-door open in the time of the fire, and after the fire was over, that box was missing; I know I had not carried it out, it was found afterwards at Hannah Judge 's, it was open, and the money taken out; I was informed the prisoner had carried it there. I asked her after the money,
[The jury inspect it.]
Q. Do you know that person again?
Clark. The prisoner at the bar was the person, I have seen her several times before. She had her apron over the trunk, as she carried it on her hip.
Q. Where did she carry it?
Clark. She carried it to Mrs. Judge's house.
Hannah Judge . There were two young men that the prisoner cohabits with, brought a bed into my kitchen, at the time of the fire; I never saw the trunk till afterwards; when the bed was opened, there was the trunk.
Q. Was the bed brought open, or tied up, into your house?
Judge. It was brought open, the prisoner was in my kitchen till the fire was over.
Q. Whose bed was it?
Judge. It was Mr. Alcock's bed, that the prisoner used to lie on. Mrs. Alcock came and asked the prisoner for the trunk, and the prisoner denied knowing any thing of it. Then one of the young men said, my dear, open the bed; she opened the bed, and said, here is the trunk, but nothing in it, you need not to make such a fuss. Mrs. Alcock said, there was so much money in it; then the prisoner was searched, and a crown, and two half crowns, were taken out of her bosom. Mrs. Alcock said, there was a piece out of the crown piece, before the money was found, and so it appeared when found.
I never carried the trunk over, I carried a great many things in the bed-quilt, and I might as well carry that amongst the bed-cloaths, as any thing else; I pick'd up some silver buttons, and other things, and throwed them into the trunk, I did not know what they were.
For the Prisoner.
Barnard Newby . I live in Duck-lane, West-smithfield, and keep a publick-house, I have known the prisoner about 12 months, she has been trusted in my house in the bar, where are things of value; I never lost any thing by her, I always took her to be an honest woman.
310 (L.) Darby Kerwick , was indicted for knowingly, willingly, and feloniously, taking a a false oath, in swearing he was brother to Dennis Kerwick , deceased, late belonging to his majesty's ship the Defiance, in order to obtain letters of administration, in order to take possession of the deceased's effects . ||
It appeared upon the trial, that the prisoner had administred, and taken the wages due to Dennis Kerwick , &c. and that the deceased's father had since been with the prisoner, to whom the prisoner returned the said money. His defence was, he had a brother of that name gone abroad in his majesty's navy, but did not know to what ship he belonged, or whether dead or alive, having heard nothing of him, till he found one of that name belonging to that ship; he believed by the father's account, he had been mistaken, and had readily returned the money.
He called nine people, who gave him the character of an honest man.
He was a second time indicted, for personating the brother of Dennis Kerwick , in order to take out letters of administration, with intent to receive his wages due from on board the Beneficent and Defiance men of war .
No evidence produced.
M. Evans. Better than two months before.
Q. How came you to tax her with it?
M. Evans. I thought she grew bigger.
Q. Did she live near you?
M. Evans. She was my servant .
Q. Where do you live?
Q. How do you know that?
M. Evans. I found the child in the copper-hole on Tuesday morning, the 22d of September. I perceived her grown thinner, and suspected she had been delivered, and I looked all over the house.
Q. Did she say any thing about it after you found the child?
M. Evans. She was talked to, but not by me, I was not by at the time.
Q. Was there any thing to cover the child when it was found?
M. Evans. There was a black petticoat of the prisoner's about it, and there was a red garter tied about it.
Q. Whose garter was it?
M. Evans. That I can't tell.
Q. Whereabouts was it ty'd round it?
M. Evans. It was ty'd round on the top of the petticoat, round the neck of the child.
Q. Was it ty'd tight?
M. Evans. Not very tight.
Q. Was it ty'd with a hard knot?
M. Evans. I cannot be positive whether it was a hard knot or no.
Q. Was the child male or female?
M. Evans. It was a girl.
Q. What did the prisoner say about it?
M. Evans. I never heard her say any thing, one way or the other.
Q. Is the petticoat here?
M. Evans. It is not.
Q. Did you see the child?
S. Woan. I did.
Q. Had it come to its full-time?
S. Woan. It had.
Q. Was you by when it was found?
S. Woan. No, I was not.
Q. Where did you see it first?
S. Woan. When the jury sent for me.
Q. Was any thing ty'd about it when you saw it?
S. Woan. No, there was not. Mrs. Evans sent for me, I went; she told me Betty was in the yard in labour. I went to her, and said, How do you do? She said, Very well. I said, You seem to be in labour. She said she was no more in labour than I was. I said, Come, go in, you are not the first that has done a fault. She would not go in; her master sent for her in; she went up stairs; after some time I found there were consequences which plainly proved there had been a child born; she was quite clear, and the other part she had made away. There was a great deal of milk in her breasts; I believed she had been delivered of a child within twelve hours.
Q. Do you think the child was born dead or alive?
S. Woan. I cannot tell that, because the child had lain in the copper-hole from the Monday morning till the Thursday afternoon.
Q. Were there any marks of violence upon it?
S. Woan. No, there were not.
Q. Is it your opinion that the child was born dead or alive?
Q. Are you a married woman?
R. Grayham. I am, and a midwife.
Q. When did you see it?
R. Grayham. On the Thursday after it was taken out of the copper-hole.
Q. Did it seem to be a child that had come to its full time?
R. Grayham. It did.
Q. Did you see the prisoner at the bar?
R. Grayham. I did; I was sent for on the Monday, the same day she was delivered. I taxed her with being delivered of a child, within 24 hours. She denied it, and said, she had had no child. I never saw her after that, till before the coroner; I took my oath, she had had a child.
Q. Had she milk in her breasts?
R. Grayham. She had.
Ann Jeffs . I belong to St. Martin's-workhouse; on the 21st of last month, the prisoner was brought up into our lying-in room, I asked her several questions. First I said, young woman, I wont to know whether you are in labour. - No, said she; I said you have had a child, she
I never said no such thing to her; she asked me whether the child was born dead or alive. I said, it was born dead.
Guilty Death .
This being Friday, she immediately received sentence to be executed on the Monday following, and her body to be dissected and anatomized.
Q. Where do you live?
Edwards. I live in White-hart-yard , I am a glazier . I went out on the tenth of September, and left the key in my shop door. I had forgot something, and upon coming back, I found my door open, and the prisoner was coming out of my shop. I asked her what business she had there; she said, what was that to me. I had left my diamond on the board, and a pocket-piece.
Q. how long had you been gone?
Edwards. I had but that minute been gone. She went over to her own house. I went in, and miss'd my diamond, and the pocket-piece. I did not know how to charge her with them. Two days after, I saw her at her own window, with the diamond in her hand. I went over to her directly, and charged her with it, and told her it was mine. She said, she would not give it me. I said, I would make her suffer for it. I went and got a warrant, and an indictment was laid against her for keeping a disorderly house; she was taken up, and sent to Newgate, and I laid a detainer against her; the things were found upon her in Newgate. [Produced in Court by the prisoner.]
Prosecutor. These are my property.
Q. Do you live in White-hart yard?
Edwards. No, I keep a shop there. I live in Stanhope-street, next door to the Half-moon.
Q. Do you know any thing of a lanthorn you mended for the prisoner?
Edwards. Yes, I do, and I carried it home, but the lanthorn was mended and carried home before the diamond was missing. I had used the diamond after that was carried home, I delivered the lanthorn to one of the lodgers.
Q. What is the lodger's name?
Edwards. I do not know her name?
Q. Where does the prisoner live?
Edwards. She has three or four houses.
Q. Did not she herself send you word she had got a diamond that stuck with some putty to the lanthorn, when you brought it home, and you might have it if you would.
Edwards. She never sent me no such word.
Q. Was you before justice Welch?
Edwards. I was, he sent her to Newgate.
Q. How came it you did not get a detainer against her from justice Welch?
Edwards. He would not grant it, so I went to justice Cox.
Q. Did you go to any other justice?
Edwards. I went to justice Wright, and there came in a constable, one that she always employed to speak for her, and then he would not grant a detainer.
Q. Did not justice Cox discharge her afterwards?
Edwards. No, he bailed her out.
[ The discharge produced in Court, and read, to this purport.]
3 October 1761.
Directed to the keeper, &c.
I have witnesses to prove that diamond came to my house sticking to the lanthorn with some putty, and he gave the child that piece of brass, which he calls a pocket-piece, to play with, four months ago.
For the Prisoner.
Elizabeth Harvey . One Saturday morning, Mr. Edwards came over the way, and said to me, have you seen Mrs. Akers? here is her lanthorn, and gave it me; I saw this diamond stick to it at one corner, I held it up to a person in the house, and said; see what a pretty thing he has put upon it, to keep the glass in. About three hours after, Mrs. Akers came in, and said, Bettry, will you go and fetch the lanthorn? Said I, he has brought it home, look what a pretty thing he has put upon it, and shewed it to her. Said she, that is his diamond, that he cuts his glass with.
Q. Where do you live?
E. Harvey. Then I lived in White-hart-yard, but the prisoner then lived at Lambeth, over-against the madhouse.
Q. When was this?
A. Brown. This was on a Monday, about six weeks ago.
Q. How came you to know Mrs. Akers had it?
A. Brown. Because she told me, and desired me to tell him, that he might fetch it.
Q. To what house was he to come for it?
A. Brown. To her house at Lambeth; I was then at the Golden-lion, White-hart-yard; she used to come there sometimes.
Q. How long was this before she was sent to Newgate?
A. Brown. It was about a fortnight before.
Q. Did not the prosecutor use to be frequently at the prisoner's house?
A. Brown. Mr. Edwards was painting her house at Lambeth, when I was there.
The information he made before justice Welch was read, and no account of the things mentioned in the indictment was in it.
No evidence appeared.
Mr. Jolley. On Saturday se'ennight, being the 10th of this instant, between the hours of 10 and 11 at night, it may be about five or six minutes after 10, it rained very hard. Mr. Esgate and I went in at the Ben. Johnson's-head, Russel-street, Covent-garden; we went into a back-room, there was a woman sat in the left hand corner of the same room. Mr. Esgate sat down by her, and I sat down by the side of him. The prisoner was in the house, he came and insulted Mr. Esgate very grossly.
Q. In what manner?
Jolley. By words, and threatned to pull his nose, or otherwise ill treat him, if he did not immediately leave that woman's company; he took the woman by the arm, but she would not go with him.
Q. Who do you mean by He took?
Jolley. That is the prisoner; upon which he threatned Mr. Esgate and I, to beat us. I desired him not to abuse us, and said, we did not come there to fight, but to stay till the rain was over. He left our company, and went and sat down, and said, we should not go out of the house before we were beat; there was another person there, who is absent, he aggravated Mr. Dane very much against us.
Q. What was his name?
Jolley. I do not know; I imagine he was acquainted with Mr. Dane, he threatened to beat Mr. Esgate, and to turn him out of the house. The woman got up, and went over a table to another man, and went out, and said to him, she was glad he was gone, for she wanted to go.
Q. What liquor had you to drink?
Jolley. We had a shilling in punch.
Jolley. I cannot be positive whether she did or not, because the prisoner came up to us, and threatened us, before we had drank ourselves.
Q. Had that woman before been drinking with them?
Jolley. I cannot tell; I never saw the woman before in my life, we were there by ourselves, and sat about 10 minutes after the woman was gone. I got up to go to the door, to see if it rained, or how the weather was. When I got to the door, to my surprize, I saw the prisoner at the bar collaring Mr. Esgate, this I saw by turning my head, hearing a noise. As I was going to go out, there were a number of men, all sea faring people, all together, they wanted him to fight, they were in the passage. I told them, we would not fight, and interceded with the prisoner to be quiet; there were one or two of them challenged me to fight. I said I would not, and desired they would be at peace. I got in, between Mr. Esgate and the prisoner, and it became a little still. Then we all went into the room again, and sat down; the prisoner drank a glass of punch with us, I desired him to be still, and said, it was not worth his while to fall out about a person of the town. The prisoner seemed to express himself, as if he thought we were the chief cause of the woman's going out of the house, and called us bullies, and did not seem well pleased, but got up and went and sat down with his companions; we were all in the same room. Then an officer went to the prisoner, and said, d - n the rascal, pull his nose off, and we will beat them before they go out of the house.
Q. Did he appear to be of the prisoner's company?
Jolley. I imagine he was, he aggravated the prisoner very much, he is the same person I mentioned before.
Counsel for prisoner. For distinction-sake, if you have occasion to mention him again, call him Ratsey, for that I understand is his name.
Jolley. The prisoner and that Ratsey, got up and went out together by themselves; and when they came in, they seemed very much dissatisfied.
Q. How long were they gone out?
Jolley. They returned again in about two minutes, they were very quarrelsome; Mr. Esgate was sitting by me; he said, we were like to get into a very bad fray, and he should be very glad to get out of the house. I heard a man by the fire-side make use of a very bad expression.
Q. What did you hear the prisoner say?
Jolley. I do not remember what he said at that time. Ratsey made use of a great many bad words, and strove to aggravate the prisoner against us. I cannot recollect the very words made use of, but he and the prisoner seemed very much out of humour, and threatned us very much Mr. Esgate spoke to the waiter, and asked him if we were to be beat; the waiter said, very likely, and went out and laughed, and said, there is no fear of it.
Q. Do you think the prisoner heard that?
Jolley. I think he might hear it, Mr. Esgate spake pretty loud; the person Ratsey made a great noise, and threatened us. Mr. Esgate said to me, you had better step out of the house, and see if you can get any body to our assistance; go to Mr. Scott's, at the Black-lion, perhaps you may meet with some body there; they seemed to threaten him the most.
Q. Do you not imagine it was in your power to get away?
Jolley. At that time I imagine it was not; that is, Mr. Esgate could not, for the prisoner had stopped him before I went out to Mr. Scott's.
Q. Did any body offer to hinder your going out?
Jolley. No, no-body; there I saw the deceased, and several others sitting. I spoke to Mr. Bamber, and told him, Mr. Esgate was at the house above, and some seafaring people would not let him come out of the house, and desired him to come to his assistance, to get him out of the house. I returned, and found Mr. Esgate sitting by himself, where I left him, seemingly in very great fear.
Q. Did any body return with you?
Q. What show of fear did you perceive?
Jolley. He had been threatened so much of being beat before he went out of the house. I sat down, and presently Mr Bamber came in, and seemed as if he knew nothing of the matter, and shook hands with me, and asked me how I did; then I got up and rung the bell, in order to pay and go.
Q. Was any other person besides Mr. Bamber come in that time?
Jolley. Yes, the deceased, and three or four more followed Mr. Bamber; but they took
Q. What did the prisoner say at that time?
Jolley. I did not hear him say any thing, but they kept talking to one another: Mr. Esgate was particularly threatned by them. I ask'd that Ratsey, if he was willing to let Mr. Esgate go out of the house quietly, or else go to another house, that we might talk it over; and desired he would behave like a gentleman. Upon which he called out, My Sword, My Sword; I told him I wore no sword, neither did I know how to make use of one; upon that, he with his fist struck at me.
Q. Was the prisoner present then?
Jolley. He was.
Q. Do you think he heard what the other said?
Jolley. I imagine he did.
Q. How many people might be in the room at that time?
Jolley. I believe about a dozen; I kept off the blow as well as I could; I believe it came on my shoulder. Immediately all their sticks were up, beating us about.
Q. Had they all sticks?
Jolley. I believe they had.
Q. Had the prisoner a stick?
Jolley. I believe he had; there was a very great struggle in the passage, and a noise; some of the people called out, there is a sword drawn. Then Mr. Esgate went out of the house as soon as possible, and I after him.
Q. Where was this struggle?
Jolley. This was in the passage, the lamps and glasses were breaking; the moment they saw the sword, they all drove out of the house. I lost my hat in the passage, we were out, and the door was shut. I waited about, to see if any body had got my hat, or saw it, several people then stood at the door. I believe I had been out five or six minutes, then the door opened, and some body brought a hat. I seeing a cockade upon it, said, that is not mine; then my own hat was brought, it was very dirty. Then I observed the door was open again, and the deceased ran into the house, it was so sudden, I did not see him go in, but somebody cried out, Hannah is gone in; and before I turn'd myself about, I heard him cry out, I am stabbed; this was the moment I heard he was gone in, I heard his voice, I am stabbed.
Q. How long do you think he might have been gone in?
Jolley. I imagine he could not have been in a minute, the voices were both at once. After that, I saw Hannah sitting on a bench, and I went for a surgeon.
Q. Do you know who stabbed him?
Jolley. That I do not know.
Q. Did you hear him say who stabbed him?
Jolley. No, I did not; I heard him say some thing, but what I could not discern?
Q. How long did he live after this?
Jolley. He lived till the Tuesday morning, between 12 and one o'clock, and this happened on the Saturday night before.
Q. Whereabouts was he stabbed?
Jolley. He was stabbed in the belly.
Q. Whether the deceased had a poker in his hand, when he ran in?
Jolley. I cannot say that; I am very sensible he had nothing in his hand when he first came into Mr. Esgate and I.
Q. How near to the passage was the room you had been drinking in?
Jolley. The passage is from the street-door, leading to the room.
Q. How many people do you apprehend were in the passage, when the call was, a sword is drawn?
Jolley. I imagine there were a dozen or more.
Q. How came it you was drove out of the house?
Jolley. I can speak for myself, I ran out on account of the sword's being drawn.
Q. Were the people drove out; you mentioned the word drove out?
Jolley. I imagine they ran out on the sight of the sword; we drove out, my meaning was, we got out in haste.
Q. How long did the door continue to be shut, before it was open again?
Jolley. I imagine about ten minutes.
Q. Do you know whether the deceased went to the house of Mr. Scott, the Black-lion, and came back again with a poker in his hand?
Jolley. I cannot inform you that, I do not know.
Hosea Esgate . Last Saturday was se'ennight, about 10 minutes after 10 at night, Mr. Jolley, and I being at Covent-Garden end of the town, it rained very hard; we went in at the Ben. Johnson's head, Russel-street, and walked backwards into a back room, where were several people
Q. Did he collar you because you should not follow the girl?
Esgate. I did not understand it so, he seemed determined that we should be lick'd. Mr. Jolley got between us, and begged of him to be quiet; then we all returned to where we was before, and the prisoner drank a glass of punch with us, and seemed very well reconciled. The other officer seemed to be prodigiously angry with us, calling us names, and that we were nothing but 'prentice boys. We were very uneasy, and thought between ourselves, as they seemed determined we should not go out of the house, for Mr. Jolley, to go to the Black-lion, to see if any of our acquaintance were there, to come to our assistance.
Q. Did you direct that?
Esgate. We agreed to do so; he went, I was very much intimidated while he was gone, left they should fall upon me. After Mr. Jolley returned, in a few minutes, Mr. Bamber, and the deceased, and others, came in; Mr. Bamber came up to us, and shook hands with us. Immediately the officers seemed to be alarmed, they got up, and put themselves in a posture, as if they were going to fight us; upon which Mr. Jolley went up to try to soften them; there were blows directly, they had all large sticks of ash or oak, they all up with their sticks, and fell upon whoever happened to be nearest.
Q. Whereabouts in the house was this?
Esgate. This was in the passage; in the scuffle, I perceived the prisoner to draw back, and get up two or three of the stairs.
Q. Was the door shut or open then?
Esgate. I cannot tell that, the officers laid on very unmercifully with their sticks. When the prisoner was got upon the stairs, he drew his sword immediately; I had observed, he drew back in order to draw it, he seemed desperately passionate. At the sight of the sword. I and Mr. Jolley, and all three, forced out of the house immediately.
Q. How many of you got out?
Esgate. I cannot say, there were more there than we knew, or had any manner of acquaintance with. As soon as we got out of the house, the door was shut, I found Mr. Jolley on the out side of the door, he had lost his hat; when the door was opened, it was given out.
Q. How soon was the door open, after you were all out?
Esgate. In about the space of six or eight minutes, it was opened in order to give him his hat; then I was told, that Hannah, the deceased, ran in, but I did not see him run in.
Q. Who told you that?
Esgate. The people at the door said, Hannah was now run in, he came out with us when we got out. Immediately after I had heard that the deceased was run in, I saw him return, and he cry'd out he was stabbed.
Q. How many went in with him?
Esgate. I believe he went in alone.
Q. Did he say who stabbed him?
Esgate. To the best of my remembrance he said, one of the officers had stabbed him.
Q. Did you see him have a poker in his hand?
Esgate. No, I did not.
Q. Was there any knocking at the door after you came out?
Esgate. I believe there was, but I cannot tell by whom.
Q. Was there not knocking at the door with sticks?
Esgate. I cannot say there was not; there certainly was knocking as the door, and very likely with sticks; but I believe but little with sticks.
Q. Were there no attempts to force the door open?
Q. Were there many people at the door?
Q. Was there a great noise at the door?
Esgate. There was a noise.
Jos. Lewis. I saw the prisoner at the bar insult Mr. Esgate, and Mr. Jolley.
Q. How insult them?
Lewis. With very bad words; they were going out, and the prisoner at the bar, and another man, laid hold of them in the passage.
Q. Where abouts in the passage?
Lewis. About the middle of the passage, to the best of my knowledge, they stopped them both?
Q. How, and by what means did they stop them?
Lewis. There were something of laying hold on the collar or shoulder of Esgate; after that, they seemed to cool a little. I went down stairs into the cellar, to bring up a quantity of wine, and what was wanted: and when I came up again, there had been battling. The first thing I saw, was the prisoner at the bar on the stairs, with his sword in one hand, and a stick in the other; I saw several blows pass and repass, I was in the house, but did not see the deceased at all as I remember. After every thing was quiet and over, I heard the prisoner at the bar say in some sea term, he had pink'd some body. And after that, I heard him swear, and d - n them, I have done for one, I have run one thro' the shoulder; after that, I went about my business, the prisoner and the other officers paid me their reckoning.
Q. Did you see the deceased that night?
Lewis. I did not to my knowledge; I saw him after he was dead.
Q. Did you afterwards find an iron poker in the house, that did not belong to the house?
Lewis. There was a poker that was not our own.
Q. What became of it?
Lewis. I gave it to Mr. Scott's maid.
Q. How came you by it?
Lewis. It was given to me somehow, just after the scuffle.
Q. Did the prisoner give it you?
Lewis. I believe it was not the prisoner, it was either the absent person, the officer, or my master.
Q. How came you to deliver it to Mr. Scott's maid?
Lewis. It was sent for by Mr. Scott, at the Black-lion.
Q. Did you observe any marks on the prisoner from a blow he had received with something?
Lewis. I believe I did, if I did, it was on his upper lip.
Q. Did it appear to be given by a blow?
Lewis. If it was by a blow, it was a very slight one; it seemed to be a very little blow.
Q. Might not that be given with a poker?
Lewis. It did not seem to be by a poker, if it was, it was not a very hard blow.
Q. Did it seem as if it had been done by a brush with the poker?
Lewis. It seemed some thing of that kind, but it did not seem to be cone with a hard blow.
John Roberts . I am master of the Ben. Johnson's-head, Russel-street, Covent-garden. I know very little of the prisoner, I may have seen him one or two nights, or thereabouts, he came to my house pretty soon. About seven, eight, or nine o'clock on Saturday was se'ennight in the evening, he was disguised in liquor, and very quarrelsome; there were some words arose between Mr. Jolley and him, on account of a woman that happened to sit in company with him, she did not like the behaviour of the gentlemen, and she moved to the other table, it is a public room; Mr. Jolley and Mr. Esgate came in, and there were some ill language given to them.
Q. What about?
Roberts. About spitting in their faces, such words were mentioned, and shitting in their mouths; very indecent expressions.
Q. How did these words arise at first?
Roberts. They arose between the prisoner at the bar, and they two; there was a person that is absent, that seemed to be very desperate (I wish I could find him) he threatned me after they two had drank their punch and were gone out at the door; they were going about half way out of the passage, the prisoner laid hold of Esgate, whether by his collar, or how, I cannot tell. I was a little confused, seeing my house in this confusion, with the lamps breaking, and I obliged to do all the punch myself, Mr. Esgate was obliged to go in again with the prisoner at the bar. Some time after, I heard them all in confusion, and expected there was some thing extraordinary, I did not venture in among them. I found one of the two first evidences seemed to be put upon, and they were rather too
Q. Who came in?
Roberts. The deceased certainly came in, and Mr. Bamber, and a great many that I cannot name, of the deceased's party.
Q. How many of them?
Roberts. Five, six, seven, or eight; the deceased to be sure was very active in the fray.
Q. Could you perceive what he had in his hand?
Roberts. I did not, I cannot swear to any thing he had in his hand.
Q. Was that after the sword had been drawn?
Roberts. It was, but it was a trifle of time afterwards; I went to the back-room to see how the bowls and glasses stood, all the things almost in the passage were broke, the square lamp and other things. After the quarrel was over, he prisoner at the bar came in, and said, he had done for one of them, for he had run one through the shoulder; he had then his naked sword in his hand.
Q. Were there any more swords drawn than one?
Roberts. No, never a one, but one.
Q. When did you see the sword drawn in the prisoner's hand?
Roberts. When the last engagement was.
Q. Had he the sword in his hand before the door was shut?
Roberts. I believe he had.
Q. How long did the door remain shut?
Roberts. I believe it remained shut seven or eight minutes.
Q. Do you believe the sword was not put up after the door was shut?
Roberts. I believe it was not put up till all was over.
Q. How many affrays were there?
Roberts. There were two, the hurt was done the second attempt.
Q. In which of the affrays did you see the deceased so active in?
Roberts. In the last.
Q. What do you mean by saying he was active?
Roberts. I saw him rush in and face the other party, he seemed to be the first or second that pushed in when the door was open.
Q. to Jolley. Had you two scuffles?
Jolley. We were drove out of the house, but there was a scuffle in the passage first.
Q. to Eastgate. Do you know who went in after the door was opened?
Eastgate. Those at the door said, Hannah was run in, and others went in.
Q. Did you see them go in?
Eastgate. I cannot say I saw any of them go in.
Q. to Lewis. Did you see the prisoner during the time the door was shut?
Lewis. I did.
Q. Where did he go?
Lewis. I am not clear in that.
Q. Were any body more with them?
Q. How many might go from that house?
Davis. May be about six or seven; we were not of their company; there were four of them, and three of us. I went into the room at the Ben Johnson 's head, and saw all very quiet. I came out again to the door, intending to go away; then I heard a noise; I returned again,
Q. Did you see the prisoner at the bar?
Davis. I did not remark him at that time; I stood close up by the wall, and let them pass me into the passage, where they immediately began with sticks and sifts; our company retired towards the door.
Q. Who do you call our company?
Davis. That is Mr. Bamber the deceased, and them that I knew. I went behind the officers party, and followed them to the foot of the stairs; and I went three or four steps up. Then the prisoner at the bar came upon the stairs likewise, and drew his sword. He came there for the better opportunity of drawing it I had a stick in my hand, and stood very quiet. He collared me, and said, You dog, I will give it you; and immediately snatched my stick out of my hand. I replied to him, For what, Sir? I am independent of the matter; I have nothing to do with it. He seemed in a very great passion, shaking his sword at me. I went down the stairs, and turned round, and went to the room again where they first came in. I heard our company say, there is a sword drawn I went to go out of the house, and the door was shut; and I was left with the prisoner, and his party. I was after wards let out by Mr. Roberts. During the time I was in the house, I saw the prisoner with his drawn sword in his hand. He and his party went to search if there were any more of our company left, and said. Is there any more dogs? we will clear the house of them; and one of them ran his hand in my face, and said, You dog, have you any thing to say against the king, and his men? When I was let out of the house, I was in a great fright. I came out with Mr. Jolley's hat.
Q. Did Hannah go out of the house with the others before you did?
Davis. I am sure he did.
Q. Did you see him return into the house again?
Q. When did you see him first after this?
Davis. I saw him come out of the house with his hand at his breast, after I was out I was in such a fright, I went immediately to ask for him at Mr. Scott's; there I saw Hannah, and Mr. Bamber, by the side of him.
Q. As he came out of the house, did you remark any body else complain of being wounded?
Davis. No, I did not; he was sitting in a box there; he said, If I die, you are all blackguards.
Q. Did he give you any account who gave him that wound?
Davis. I did not hear him; I never had any conversation with him afterwards, only when the prisoner was brought in, and put in the same box with him; for when we had been in with the deceased, somebody said, We ought to secure the person that has done it. I went back with others to Mr. Roberts's, and brought the prisoner from thence; there were Mr. Bamber, and others with us. The prisoner sat down by the deceased, who waved his hand, and said, How could you use me so? The prisoner said. If it was to do again, I would do it. I said to the prisoner, Why did you assault me on the stairs? He said. I will shew you the way of it; I was robbed. I said, Of what? He said, Of my hat I had brought it to Mr. Jolley; and after that I delivered it to Mr. Scott in his bar and he gave it to the prisoner. I said, Have you any thing to alledge with respect to a robbery? He said, No, but look upon this black mark on my face I saw a black mark upon his upper lip; he said it was done with a poker
Q. Did he say who gave it him?
Davis. He did not
Q. Did he not say the prisoner gave it him?
Davis. He did not, as I know of.
Counsel. Then the officers were pretty quiet among themselves, when the other party were gone out?
Q. Had the prisoner sheathed his sword, when the others were gone out, and the door shut?
Davis. He had.
Q. Did you see the sword drawn afterwards?
Davis. No. I did not.
Q. What was done after they had searched every room, and could find no more?
Davis. They then began to shake hands, and were all very quiet.
Q. How long were they quiet?
Davis. They were pretty quiet for about two or three minutes, 'till the door was open.
James Scott . I keep the Black-lion. On Saturday night, between the hours of ten and eleven, the deceased, Hannah, came hastily into the bar where I was, and asked me to lend him a stick. I judging what use he wanted to make of it, refused him; he immediately went into the kitchen; but I being busy in the bar, did not see him return; but in less than two minutes my cook came running to me, and said, Lord, Sir, Mr. Hannah has got the poker!
Q. What is her name?
Scott. Her name is Catharine Guttery ; I believe in less than five or six minutes he returned; I observed his looks to be altered very pale. One of his friends said, Hannah is hurt. I followed him into the kitchen; he took his shirt aside, and shewed me the wound he had received. A surgeon was sent for. I asked if they had secured the person that did it; and very soon after the prisoner was brought into the house, by some of Mr. Hannah's friends.
Q. Whereabouts was the wound?
Scott. It was under his left breast. The people insisted upon the prisoner's giving up his sword; but he refused it, and said, He would give it to none but the landlord of the house. I went, and he gave me his sword immediately. I observed a spot on his face, which appeared as if done with a poker; it was near his mouth.
Q. Did you perceive any thing of a wound?
Scott. No, I did not see any wound.
Q. to Davis. Did you see a wound on the prisoner's face?
Davis. No, no wound; it was only somewhat black.
Q. to Lewis. Did you observe any blood on the prisoner's face?
Lewis. There was something about his teeth; but it did not seem to be done by a blow, it might be done by the scuffle.
Q. Did you see any blood?
Lewis. I don't know that there was any blood, none of any consequence.
Q. to Scott. Did you see a poker afterwards?
Scott. My cook went to fetch the poker a day or two afterwards; it was my poker; Mr. Roberts's servant told me the poker was at their house.
Q. Did you hear the prisoner say who gave him that mark?
Scott. No, I did not.
Catharine Guthery . I am servant to Mr. Scott; the deceased came to me in the kitchen, and asked me if I could lend him a stick; I said I had never a one; then he went and took the poker from the fire-side. I asked him what he was going to do with it. He said he was going to get his wig with it. I fetched it again from the Ben Johnson 's-head, on the Monday following. After he was wounded, he came into our house, and said he was stabbed.
Q. Did you ask him how he came by the wound?
C. Guthery. No. I did not, neither did he tell me; I saw the wound dressed, it appeared to be done with a sword. [She produced an iron-poker, above three quarters of a yard long] This is the poker.
John Fleming . I was at Mr. Scott's, when Mr. Jolley came in; he said, he and his friends were very ill treated, and desired assistance; he said, they declared his friend should not go out of the house, 'till they had beat him. I went along with them; there were striking with sticks. I saw one sword drawn, and no more. The person that had the sword, had a stick in the other hand; it was the prisoner at the bar; he was disarmed of his stick. He ran up four or five stairs, and laid hold of Davis by the collar, and swore he would run the first man through the body that advanced towards him, be he who he would. We all quitted the house, and the door was shut. About ten minutes after, the deceased came back, and went in. He had not been in above two minutes, before he came out, and said, He was wounded, and that he was a dead man. I attended him to the Black-lion; there I saw the prisoner brought in, and sat down near the deceased. I asked the prisoner how he could be guilty of so cruel an action. He said, he thought nothing of that, he had received many such wounds himself; and was it to do again, he would do the same, or worse. The deceased was carried to Mr. Bamber's, in Round-court. I attended him from that time, to the hour of his death.
Q. How was he for health before?
Fleming. He was a man of extraordinary good health before.
Q. What do you imagine was the cause of his death?
Mr. Bamber. I was sitting drinking at the Black-lion last Saturday was se'ennight at night, in company with the deceased; we had paid our reckoning, and were going home; Mr. Jolley came in, and told us there were some company using Mr. Eastgate very ill at the Ben Johnson 's-head. I went after him, and found him sitting in the left-hand corner in the room. While Mr. Jolley went to speak to one of the gentlemen, a quarrel began, I don't know how; they fell on with their sticks as hard as they could for their lives. I had no stick, nor the deceased neither. I thought myself in great danger, and thought it necessary to get hold of a stick as soon as I could. I got a stick out of somebody's hand, I don't know who, and defended myself with it. The next thing I saw was the prisoner at the bar, with a sword drawn in one hand, and a stick in the other. Then we all went out at the door, expecting him to come out every minute Some of them had lost hats. I could not well leave them so, and I stood there with my stick; and while I was looking on one side, the deceased slip-ped into the house; and one Ryland, a young fellow, said, Hannah is gone into the house; he will be killed. I ran in directly, for I had a great value for the deceased.
Q. Did you see any thing in the deceased's hand?
Bamber. No, I did not; I saw him when in the passage; before I could get up to where he was engaged, he cried out he was stabbed.
Q. Do you know with whom he was engaged?
Bamber. I do not; it was with the sea-faring gentlemen.
Q. Did you see him strike any body, or any body strike him?
Bamber. No, I saw neither; he returned back immediately, and I followed him out. I went a little way, and returned back again. I thought I could not go and leave the prisoner behind, and my friend in such danger. I stood at the door, and leaned on the stick, as if not concerned at all. The prisoner came up, and asked what was the matter. As soon as I got him from the door, I immediately catched him by the collar, and ordered a man to assist me, because he had his sword by his side. Then I took him to Mr Scott's, and left him there, and went for a surgeon.
Q. Might not the deceased have a poker in his hand, and you not see it?
Bamber He might, for what I know; I have very great reason to think he did take the poker, and run into the house with it.
Q. You say you saw him engaged; what do you mean by engaged?
Bamber. I saw him in the scuffle with the gentleman.
Q. You say there were two parties; how many were there of the two parties?
Bamber. I believe our whole party might consist of about six or seven, and six or seven of the other party; but at the same time the deceased was hurt, I do not know of any of our party ingaged besides him, and me, and one more.
Q. When the deceased came out of the house, what did he say?
Bamber. He clapped his hands on his breast, and said, [I am a dead man, and if I die, I look upon you ail as a parcel of scoundrels; because you did not come and assist me?
Q. Where there blows passed on each side?
Bamber. I saw them husling in the passage, but I saw no blows.
Q. If there had been any, was you near enough to see them?
Bamber. I was, but I saw none on neither side. Hannah was a very high spirited young fellow.
I went into the house that night, and a girl was sitting at a table; we sat down by her, and asked her if she was engaged for the night; she said no; I said, have you any lodgings of your own? she said, Sir, I have; we had a shillins-worth of punch, the girl drank part of it. After that, another shillings-worth was set on the table; a gentleman that was with me, touched the table with his arm, and spilt some of the punch. She got up, I said, it was not done with any design, I hope you will keep your seat; she went and set down by that young gentleman (meaning Esgate) She afterwards went out; I told him he should not go out after her; we had some words; but after that, I drank with him in good friendship. After that, blows began to ensue; I was struck several times. I
For the prisoner.
Q. Who else was with you?
Priestly. There was Mr. Dane, Mr. Ratsey, and me; there was another in the room, that seemed very quarrelsome, and in liquor, but he was not of our company. I saw also one White-head, that I knew; we went first into the back room, and called for a shilling i punch, we drank it out, there was a lady sitting there, she seemed very melacholy; Mr. Dane asked her if she would take a glass of punch, she did, there was some discourse; he since told me, she had ingaged herself to him for that night We called for another shilling's worth of punch, the waiter set it on the table, the sleeve of a coat touch'd the table, and a small quantity of it went upon the lady's cardinal, so she was out of humour, and went from our company; those other gentlemen coming in; they and she sat in another part of the room, I cannot tell whether they came in before she went to that corner of the room or not She seemed not inclinable to come into our company again, I believe that occasioned a quarrel between Mr. Dane, Mr. Esgate, and Mr. Jolley; it was about this girl only, some words past. I got up, and begged of them not to quarrel about any such thing as that, as we came there only to pass away a very little time; I was mostly ingaged with a girl that sat next to me, so that I cannot be positive whether Mr. Ratsey aggravated the affair or not; he was my acquaintance, there were four or five different companies in the house.
Q. Did Whitehead join your company?
Priestly. No, he did not; I began to imagine once every thing was reconciled, and that there would be no more quarreling.
Q. Do you remember the time of Mr. Jolley's going out of the house?
Priestly He went out soon after the girl went out; I cannot be positive whether it was Mr. Jolley, or Mr. Esgate, one of them was going out of the room. Mr. Dane said, he was not to go along with her, and stopped him. Another person came up, and asked him, what he had to say to him; Mr. Dane wanted to know the reason of his interfering; he said, because he was either his brother or his friend, I don't know which. Some time after, I believe one of them had been out, for I saw him returning.
Q. Had the prisoner any sword drawn, before he went out?
Priestly. He had a sword with him, but I did not see it drawn at that time.
Q. Who returned with that person, when he came in again?
Priestly. I saw some others come in, that I took to be Mr. Jolley's friends, there were four or five of them. Then Mr. Jolley came up to Mr. Ratsey, and said, You are the occasion of all this, and come out with me. Mr. Ratsey was knocked down I believe; I desired the quarrel might be made up. Then a tray began with those people that came in, and our company; Mr. Dane was then in the passage.
The Last Part of these Proceedings will be published in a few Days.
NUMBER VIII. PART III. for the YEAR 1761.
Printed, and sold by J. SCOTT, at the Black-Swan, in Pater-noster Row.
M. DCC. LXI.
King's Commission of the Peace, Oyer and Terminer, and Gaol Delivery held for the City of London, &c.
Q. DID you see him strike any-body?
Priestly. No, I did not; I saw several blows made at Mr. Ratsey. I was more concerned to mitigate the matter, than to take notice of what passed.
Q. Do you remember the deceased's party going out of the house?
Priestly. Whether they went of their own accord, or were drove out, I cannot say; but after that, one or two assisting me, I shut and bolted the door.
Q. What company was in the house while the door was shut?
Priestly. There were Mr. Dane, Mr. Ratsey, and me.
Q. How many companies remained in the room when the door was shut?
Priestly. There might be two or three; we were in the back-room, and some of the company, I believe, went into the front-room. I saw Mr. Whitehead at that time.
Q. Who was that girl that was sitting by you?
Priestly. She goes by the name of Oakley.
Q. How long did the door continue to be shut?
Priestly. I believe it was but a short time before it was opened; it might be shut about four or five minutes; I imagined it was all quiet, only a seafaring person seemed to be very quarrelsome.
Q. Who was he?
Priestly. I can't say who he was, I did not know him, he was a stranger to me, and I believe to Mr. Dane. I said I was very glad they were gone out, and I hoped there would be no more of it.
Q. Whether Mr. Dane had had his sword drawn to that time?
Priestly. I do not remember to have seen it drawn at that time, or before.
Q. How did they get into the house again?
Priestly That I do not know.
Q. Did you hear a noise at the door?
Priestly. No, I did not, I was in the backroom.
Q. Do you remember what happened upon opening of the door?
Priestly. When I went into the passage I found the affray got to as great a height as before; Mr. Dane was then standing on the stairs; I had a stick in my hand; when I went into the passage a person in light-coloured cloaths whipp'd the stick out of my hand, and blamed me for standing idle, that I did not assist. I saw him striking at those that were coming in at the door.
Q. Who was that person?
Priestly. I do not know, it was a stranger to me.
Q. Was it that man that was so quarrelsome?
Priestly. No, it was not.
Q. Was it a seafaring man?
Priestly No, it was not; I believe he had only just come into the house. Mr. Dane told them to keep off, and said he did not want to hurt any of them, but he said, by G - he would defend himself; then I think a person was upon the stairs with him.
Priestly. Much about that time I endeavoured to get the door shut; I shut it a second time, but could not get it bolted; another person and I got our shoulders against it.
Q. How many people were there in the passage?
Priestly. I cannot say how many.
Q. Could you keep the door fast?
Priestly. I believe I could but this seafaring person came flourishing his stick. I went to him, and said, Go to your own company. He would have taken our parts; he told me he did not belong to me, but he belonged to the sea, and no-body should use us ill. I do not remember any thing particular that happened afterwards, till I heard a person was wounded.
Q. Did you see a poker there?
Priestly. No, I did not; I could not distinguish a poker from a stick.
Jos. Scofield. I was in the passage when the people came running in at the door a second time.
Q. Did you know the deceased, Hannah?
Scofield. I did; I saw him go in at the door with a poker in his hand
Q. Did you see any thing that he did?
Scofield. I did not.
Q. Look at this poker here produced.
Scofield. I really cannot say that this is the same.
Q. How many people went in with him?
Scofield. There were a number of young fellows went in together?
Q. Who went in first?
Scofield. To the best of my knowledge Hannah did; he went in seemingly in haste; he immediately turned again, and said he was stabb'd, immediately, as soon as he got in.
Christopher Flarty . I live in Bridges-street, Covent-garden; I am a hatter; I was going by with a hat, hearing a noise in the street I stopp'd, and saw the Ben Johnson 's Head door shut, and Mr. Bamber and some other people at the door; every one had sticks in their hands; Mr. Bamber rushed in, and I believe six or seven more; they went down to the bottom of the entry; I believe they were not in a minute before they came out again, and said a man was stabb'd.
F. Blaney. I did. he had a poker in his hand.
Q. Look at this poker here produced. (She at it.)
E. Blaney. This is it.
Q. Did you see him do any thing with it?
E. Blaney. He offered to strike the prisoner at the bar with it; I saw him strike at him.
Q. How often?
E. Blaney. Once, and no more.
Q. Did you see him hit the prisoner?
E. Blaney. No, I saw no blow.
Q. How soon after that did he cry out he was stabb'd?
E. Blaney. I cannot say, I was out of the house when he was stabb'd, I was going out at the time.
Q. Had the prisoner then his drawn sword in his hand?
E. Blaney. No, he had not, he was offering to draw it, I saw him put his hand to his sword; I was glad to run out of the house immediately; I saw the deceased strike at him with a poker, and the poker fell, but whether it hit him or not I cannot say; I was very near him, near enough to see the prisoner had a stick in his hand, and that it was wrenched out of his hand by another person.
Elizabeth Philipshill . I was at the Ben Johnson 's Head the night that this happened; I was going out of the house when the deceased came in with the poker in his hand; I asked him what he was going to do; he said no matter to me; he hid the poker behind his coat.
Q. Did you know him before?
E. Philipshill. I had seen him several times before in company, and knew him to be a very quarrelsome person. There was a gentleman who asked who was the gentleman that began the quarrel; they shewed him the gentleman, meaning the prisoner; he said, Now, here I am; you have got your friends about you, I'll fight you now.
Q. Who was that gentleman?
E. Philipshill. It was a tall thin gentleman
Q. Look about, see if you know him. ( She looks at Mr. Jole)
E. Philipshill. That is the gentleman. I saw the deceased lift up the poker to strike a person in the entry; the prisoner was in the fray just by the stair-foot; I can't say whether the deceased struck him or not; at the same time there was no sword drawn; the prisoner had a stick in his hand, and it was wrenched from him his sword being by his side at the same time; I saw no attempt to draw it; but when I returned into the back-room, I heard that the deceased was wounded; I heard the prisoner say he was very sorry
Q. Did you see the deceased strike with the poker?
E. Philipshill. He struck at the prisoner, but I don't know whether it reached him or not.
Esgate. The witness Blaney says she saw the deceased striking with the poker, and then she was coming out of the house, before the deceased was wounded I am well persuaded there was not time to see a blow given by the deceased, before the deceased was wounded; and I am quite certain no woman came in, or went out of the house, at that door, from the time of the deceased's going in, and coming out again wounded.
Q. How long do you think he was in the house?
Esgate. I don't think he was in the house a minute.
Q. How long is the passage?
Esgate. That is longer than the table in this court. (That is about three or four yards long)
Q. to Blaney. What door did you go out at?
E. Blaney. The street-door.
Esgate. I take upon me to swear no girl came out at that door till after Mr. Hannah came out, and said he was wounded. I was at the outside the door all the time.
Capt. Thomas Summers . I know Mr. Dane. he has failed under my command this war eleven months; he was mate on board the Bellona; he was far from that of a quarrelsome man; he was a very good natured man: he likewise failed under me the last war in the Fortune sloop; he always behaved well, as a good-natured man, or I had never kept him under me; he was mate.
Capt. Edwards. Our ship is now cleaning at Portsmouth: next March Mr. Dane has failed with me two years: he came up now to be examined, in order to be promoted, and he had leave from me for that purpose; I cannot recollect I ever had a complaint against him.
Q. Did you ever find him quarrelsome?
Edwards. No, I never did.
Q. Did he use to beat or misuse your men?
Edwards. I never suffer a man to be struck by an officer on board my ship.
Court. That is very commendable of you; you will never want for men to stand by you in time of action.
Mr. Roper. I am capt. Edwards's first mate on board the Bellona; the prisoner was a very good humane man, and very sober. I never heard any complaints of him.
Guilty Manslaughter .
Mary Ellice . I am servant to Mrs. Bellamy, she lives in Jermin-street ; the prisoner is a journeyman uphosterer ; he was at work at my mistress's house, in fitting up some restoon window-curtains, in September last. Two or three days after I missed a handkerchief, two towels, and two tea-cups. We suspected he must take them, and in searching his lodgings, we found the handkerchief. one cup, and one towel. [Produced in court.] These are my mistress's property; here is her name upon the handkerchief. The towel is of a particular sort; I never saw such besides there; my mistress brought them with her from Ireland; they are not made up; here is one of the same sort, I brought from home. [Producing it; they are compared, and correspond.] The tea-cup is part of a set of Drelden-china, [Producing a fellow to it; they correspond,] with a blue stripe down the middle of each.
Q. When was it that the prisoner worked at you house?
M. Ellice. About the 3d of October was the last time he worked for my mistress.
John Kirkwood . The prisoner lodged at my house; I have seen that handkerchief, here produced, and two towels, hang up in our yard; this is one of the towels, that is here produced. When the handkerchief was brought home, the woman that the prisoner lives with put it on, and brought it down, and shewed it to my wife; she shewed her the towels and cup also. I did not think he came honestly by them. I found out where he had been at work, and I went and gave information of them. I was with the constable when he was taken up, and before the justice he declared he knew nothing of either of the things.
Q. from Prisoner. What time did you see the handkerchief?
Kirkwood. I believe it is better than a month ago; I cannot recollect the day, I believe it was in September.
Q. from Prisoner. Did you ever see the towels hang up in the yard?
Kirkwood. I never saw such as these, besides this here produced, and the other.
Prisoner. When I was before the justice I had been drinking, and was not then in a capacity of giving an answer, but I desired to be heard another time; I was sent to Clerkenwell-bridewell, and after that I was sent for again.
Q. Was he in liquor?
Kirkwood. I do not believe he was.
Frances Kirkwood . I am wife to the last witness; the woman that the prisoner lives with brought a China tea-cup, and two towels, and shewed them to me, and the handkerchief also. This made me very uneasy. After this, my husband went and informed the prosecutrix, and there was a search-warrant.
Q. Did the prisoner and that woman take the lodgings together?
F. Kirkwood. They did.
James Rowbottom . Mr. Mason, the prisoner's master, desired me to go and get a warrant from Sir John Fielding , to search the prisoner's lodgings. I went with it to the prisoner's lodgings, and told the woman that the prisoner lives with, that there was a handkerchief, marked with the letter B, and I must have it. She declared there was no such thing; but at last she took it off her neck, and delivered it to me, and declared the prisoner gave it her. We found also the other things here produced.
Q. Was you before the justice when the prisoner was?
Rowbottom. I was.
Q. Was he drunk or sober?
Rowbottom. He was as sober as I am now; he declared he knew nothing of any of the things. On his examination he told Sir John, that he had the towel of his wife's mother, who he said kept an inn in the country. He said he found the handkerchief on the step of the prosecutrix's door.
Q. Did you see any other cups in the prisoner's house like this cup?
Rowbottom. No, there were some others, but none like this; the woman said all the others were her own.
Daniel Mason . The prisoner was a journeyman to me; he had been at work at the prosecutrix's house, in putting up three festoon window-curtains. I went to her house, and the maid desired me not to send this man any more. I asked her what was the matter? She told me what she had lost, and shewed the fellows to the towel and cup. I got a warrant, and staid in the court while the constable and others went and searched. These things that they found, agree with what the maid had before told me; and she, before the justice, swore to them as her mistress's property.
I found the handkerchief on the step of the door; I have got witnesses.
Counsel for Prisoner. I will call those witnesses that are to your character, but I do not think the other witnesses will be of any service to you.
Mary Anderson . I remember this cup being at the prisoner's lodgings, going on between five and six months; I had two, one of them is broke; the prisoner gave them to me; and he gave me two towels, five or six months ago; he told me they were his wife's property.
Q. Should you know them was you to see them?
M. Anderson. I should.
Q. Look at that towel. [Produced; she looks at it.]
M. Anderson. He gave me this five months ago.
Q. Are you sure of that?
M. Anderson. I am certain of it.
Q. Is there any particular mark upon it, so as to know that from the other here produced?
M. Anderson. The other is a new one.
Q. Do you live in the same apartment with the prisoner?
M. Anderson. I do.
Q. Take care, speak the truth, great perils may attend; do not carry your affections to any man, so as to be guilty of swearing falsely. Whether you had the two towels so long as you speak of?
M. Anderson. I had indeed, indeed I had; and the cup was given me five or six months ago.
Q. Do you remember shewing the cup and handkerchief to Mrs. Kirkwood?
M. Anderson. I shewed one cup to her.
Q. How long after he gave it you?
M. Anderson. He gave it to me a great long while before I shewed it to her.
Q. What do you say to the handkerchief?
M. Anderson. He brought it home to me, and told me he found it one evening, and gave it to me.
Q. How long is that ago?
M. Anderson. That is going on five or six weeks ago.
Q. Did you shew her the handkerchief and cup at the same time?
M. Anderson. No, I did not.
Q. Where did those cups use to stand?
M. Anderson. On the mantle-piece.
M. Anderson. They were in constant use.
Q. Had they been often washed?
M. Anderson. They had many times; I washed them every week.
Q. Where did you use to hang them up to dry?
M. Anderson. In the yard below.
Q. How long do you say you had them?
M. Anderson. I had them going on five or six months; he gave me them out of his portmanteau.
Court. I will caution you once more; do you abide by the account you have given?
M. Anderson. Yes.
Court. Are you sure?
M. Anderson. Yes, I am.
Q. What is become of the other towel?
M. Anderson. I do not know, except they took it away; I never saw it since.
Q. Had you them both together?
M. Anderson. I had.
Q. Was you in the room when the things were taken away?
M. Anderson. I was.
Q. What is become of the pieces of the broken cup?
M. Anderson. I have not got them.
Q. By what accident was that cup broke?
M. Anderson. By washing it one morning.
Q. Did Mrs. Kirkwood use to drink tea with you?
M. Anderson. Yes.
Q. Do you think she might have seen them cups often?
M. Anderson. I believe she might.
Q. Do you believe she might have seen this cup on your mantle-piece?
M. Anderson. May be she might.
Q. Was that the place where they were constantly put?
M. Anderson. It was.
Q. Were there any other cups on the mantlepiece?
M. Anderson. There were.
Q. How came it you did not put a mark upon the towel?
M. Anderson. I do not know why.
Q. How long is it ago since you broke the other cup?
M. Anderson. It is about three months ago.
James Chambers . I have known the prisoner pretty near 12 months; I have been at his lodgings several times; I remember seeing a remarkable cup there, such as this; [Looking at the cup produced.] it was a China-cup, with a handle to very much like this.
Q. Did you ever see two such?
Chambers. I have seen several cups.
Q. Did you ever see this there, or any like it?
Chambers. I have seen one of those there, or one very much like it.
Chambers. Four or five months ago; a cup of that sort with a handle to it; having handles makes them the more remarkable; I saw one of that shape and make.
Q. Do you remember seeing any towels there?
Chambers. Towels are things a man seldom takes notice of; possibly there might be towels.
Q. What is the prisoner's character?
Chambers. I have known him to be a man of a very fair character; he is an upholsterer by trade; I have been in his company several times; I always knew him to have an extraordinary good character.
Court. Take that cup in your hand; have you drank tea out of it?
Chambers. I have; this cup, or somewhat much like it. when I have drank tea.
Q. A good handsome set of China?
Chambers. Not a set of this; this might be an odd cup, the set might be broke before.
Q. Was there any tea-pot, milk-pot, or coffeepot, of the same?
Chambers. There was no other part of the set but this; I saw one there very much resembling this.
Q. As there was but one, it was a sort of compliment to put it into a stranger's hand.
Chambers. I know I have seen such a one there.
Q. Had any of the others handles to them?
Chambers. No, only one.
Q. Where do you live?
Chambers. I live in Southampton-building, next door to the Grotto.
Q. What is your y?
Chambers. I am a taylor.
Q. Who have you worked with?
Chambers. I have worked with several.
Q. Who do you work for at this present time?
Chambers. I work for nobody now.
Q. Where is your house of call?
Chambers. I belong to the Three Castles in Black-friars.
Q. What is his general character?
Thrale. I never knew but what he is an honest man; he always behaved himself well; he is a hard working, honest man.
Thrale. I am a hatter, a journeyman.
Q. Where do you live?
Thrale. I live in Cow-cross.
Mason. This man swore before the justice he kept ten or a dozen men at work in Cow cross.
- Delency. I have known him better than twelve months.
Q. What is his character?
Delency. A very honest industrious man, 'till this affair.
Kirkwood. The cup I never saw; the first time I saw the towels was about a month ago, or a little better; that was the first time they were washed, and hung up in the yard.
Q. Did you ever take notice of any other towels hanging there before?
Kirkwood. There might be a rag or two, but none like these.
Q. Whether if they had been hanging up there in that manner sooner, should you not have observed them?
Kirkwood. Yes, I should; I have seen linnen hanging in the yard, but if these towels had been there, I should have seen them; they are remarkable with stripes in the inside of them.
Kirkwood. I do; last Sunday night Molly Anderson , and a person that calls herself the prisoner's mother, and Chambers and another man, came to my house; and as soon as the door was opened, they forced in upon me. Chambers struck at me directly, as soon as within the door. I took them both by their collars, and lugged them out into the court. The mother called out at the window, and said she was in danger of her life, and said she would swear the peace against me.
Q. Have you seen Chambers there often?
Kirkwood. I have, especially on a Sunday; he used to come and dine there.
F. Kirkwood. I have.
Q. Have you three or four months ago?
F. Kirkwood. I think I have.
Q. Have you taken notice of china on the mantle-piece?
F. Kirkwood. I have.
Q. If there had been ever a fine piece of china on the mantle-piece, three or four months ago, should you have observed it?
F. Kirkwood. Yes, I should; I have often seen the china taken down, and cleaned.
Q. Was this cup on the mantle-piece three or four months ago?
F. Kirkwood. No, not 'till lately.
Q. How lately?
F. Kirkwood. Within this month, or five weeks.
Q. Did you see the pieces of another cup of this sort?
F. Kirkwood. No.
Q. Did she tell you she had broke one?
F. Kirkwood. No.
Q. How often have you seen the towels hang up?
F. Kirkwood. I have seen them hanging in the yard two or three times.
Q. Whether they were not better than their ordinary towels?
F. Kirkwood. They are; she shewed me them when they were first brought home; and she told me, she believed they were cabbage, when she was making them, and putting a piece of tape at the ends.
Q. At what time was that?
F. Kirkwood. To the best of my knowledge it was about the 18th or 19th of last month. She told me he brought them home the night before she shewed them to me. They were unwashed when she shewed them to me; that is, they never had been washed. I thought some poor servant might lose their place upon it.
Q. Can you be certain they never had been washed?
F. Kirkwood. She gave me them in my hands; I am sure they never had been washed.
The jury declared they did not believe the evidence given by Anderson and Chambers; they were committed to Newgate for perjury, and Mr. Mason entered into recognizance to prosecuts them for the same next sessions.
Q. In what manner?
Bartley. By stamping upon her left side, till the blood guished upwards and downwards from her.
Q. How long before she died, did you see those marks upon her?
Bartley. It was some time before she died; Mr. Morris used to come to see her very often, and he would give her a few halfpence.
Q. How was she for health before?
Bartley. She was in very good health when she came into the neighbourhood; that was two or three months before she died; but since she has been dead, I have heard she was in a very bad state of health before, by the foul distemper.
Q. Did he use to give her money before she went into the workhouse?
Bartley. Yes, he did, in order to assist her.
Q. How long did she work in your room before she died?
M'Carty. About seven or eight weeks; she seemed to be in a very good state of health about February or March last; but she seemed to be pretty big with child, the prisoner has often came and importuned her in a candid manner to go out; I believe about a month before she died, I saw black marks about her face; she languished in my room, several days before she died; but she lay in her lodgings next door but one to me, she was only in my room on days. The prisoner came to my room one morning, in a very candid manner, and took her out; they staid out a little later than ordinary.
Q. How long before her death?
M'Carty. It may be about six or seven weeks before; he sent for half a gallon of beer, and then they took a walk together in a good natured way. The next morning she came to work, she had a bruise on the side of her head, and a mark or scratch on her nose, and a black eye, nothing extraordinary desperate. She said, the rogue has almost killed me last night, and her hand on her side, and said, she should not be able to live. I said, What is the matter you whore? Said she, some time ago, do you remember, when I was with child? I said, I do not know whether you was or not you whore. She said, I have got such a hurt on my side, I know not that I shall get over it. She said, one night he had some keys in her care, and he asked her for them, that he knocked her down with his fist, (she was a scratch-cat creature,) she got up again, and he knocked her down again; his old mother called out, kick her guts out, d - n the bich, and she called out murder; and she said, she had a bruise on her side.
Q. On which side was it?
Q. How long was this before her death?
M'Carty. I believe this was five or six weeks before she told me this; but the thing happened some time in April or May last.
Q. When they went out together, as you say, in a good natured way, when was that?
M'Carty. That was about a month or six weeks before her death; and when she came back, she said, her hat flew off, and she turned round to take it up, and he knock'd her down; that was the time that she had marks on her face.
Q. Where did she say this was?
M'Carty. She said, this was in Parker's-lane; she said, as she arose, he hit her a blow on the belly, and kick'd her, and made the blood gush out both ways.
Q. Was this told you in the presence of the prisoner?
M'Carty. Yes, it was?
Q. What was his answer?
M'Carty. He said, you richly deserved it you know; I never saw the man use her ill in my life, or ever heard him give her a bad word before that time.
Q. How was she for temper?
M'Carty. A turbulent violent creature, and as great a liar.
Q. Have you seen them often together?
M'Carty. Yes, very often; and I have drank with them.
Q. How has been his behaviour to her?
M'Carty. I always saw him behave the gentleman to the woman, all my life-time.
M'Carty. He said, You whore, it is justly what you deserved, it was your own fault. She said, You bloody son of a bitch, you thief you murderer, you kick'd me down. He smiled at her, at the time, with all the good nature in the world. Come along now, said he, and away they went out together; there is the man now before my face. he knows it.
John Brown. The deceased lodged at my house a fortnight, she was coming home one night to her lodgings, and Mr. Morris met her at my door.
Q. When was this?
Brown. This was about three months ago; I was shutting my shutters up at half an hour past 11. Mr. Morris knock'd her down, the woman said to me. Mr. Brown, I wish you would be so good as to come over here; I am murdered; this was facing my door. She came into her lodgings, her nose had a cut upon it, and her left eye was swelled; I said to her (as I saw it,) If you will go along with me, I will go to Mr. Welch's, and get a warrant the next morning. No, said she; if I was to go to get a warrant, I should be murdered.
Q. Where had you this talk?
Brown. This was in my shop, she quitted her lodging the next day.
Q. Describe the cut on her nose?
Brown. She had only a mark upon it.
Q. What did the prisoner say in answer to what she said?
Judith M'Carty. The deceased told me that the prisoner had beat her, and made her miscarry; that he stamped upon her very much, and his mother at the same time said, Kick the b - h, d - n the b - h kill her.
Q. How long is this ago?
J. M'Carty. I cannot tell that, because I am a stranger to London, and cannot write nor read; her nose was cut, and her eyes were black, and there was blood both ways, She came with a handkerchief bloody all over, and I washed her cap and handkerchief for her, and she staid in our room the while; she always kept saying, that rogue Tom Morris , that rogue was the death of her, and that she should never hold up her head any more; he has hurt me withinside, and she spit blood from her mouth. I often heard her say Morris was the death of her; there appeared a fresh mark on her side.
Q. Was she with child at that time?
Brown. No, she was not.
Q. How long was this before she died?
Brown. I cannot tell how long, her thigh and her arm were black.
Q. Was this said in the hearing of the prisoner?
Q. Where did she say this was done?
Brown. In the street?
Q. Did she say what street?
Brown. No, she did not.
Ann Bartley . I live in Thomas's-street; the deceased came in the beginning of the summer to the work house. I believe she was two months with me, before I knew any thing of Mr. Morris; when he came, he went up stairs, and they both came down and went out together very agreeable.
Q. When was this?
A. Bartley. I believe this was about the latter end of July; she came the next day about nine o'clock in the morning, and said, she could not work; she had a cut on her nose, and a black eye, her foreheard was black, and her handkerchief a little sprinkled with blood. I said, Hi, Hi, you have been fighting? No, said she, I have not, for it is what Tom Morris gave me the last night. The next morning after she came again, with her arm to her left side, and shewed me a black mark under her left breast; I thought it look'd like fresh done, with the heel of a man's shoe. All her continual story was, Morris, Morris, has been the death of me; he has given me my death's wound, and I shall never get over it. When she was bad, Mr. Morris came and visited her very kindly; she lodg'd but next door to us, but she came and worked at our house; he used to come like a gentleman, with the best of behaviour, and the best of manners, and gave her the best of words.
Q. Did she mention this in his presence?
Bartley. She would abuse him; I never but once heard her say to him. You are a villain; you rogue, you have been the death of me. He always gave her civil words, and supply'd her for her lodging, and other things.
Jane Innis . The deceased and I sat up to work together one night, about the latter end of August, or the beginning of September; she complained of a pain in her side; I asked her what was her disorder; said she, as you are a motherly woman, I'll tell you. She told me, she and Mr. Morris kept company together, and at the time when she was with child, he used her very ill, and she miscarried upon the account of it. But after that, he used her very well, her words were exceeding well; she said, they went out once together, and in Parker's-lane he struck her; she came home with a black eye, and a scratch upon her nose; she complained terribly of a pain in her side; she said, whether she had it by a fall, or by a kick, she knew not: but it was done in the quarrel that Morris and she had; I never saw him carry it otherwise than well to her.
Matthew Storton . I am overseer of the poor, in St Giles's in the Fields; I put the deceased into our workhouse, on the 27th of August When I went to her, she was sitting on a bed; she said to Mr. Haywood, who was with me, You need not have troubled yourself to get me into the workhouse, for I have got a friend. I then went home, and in about two hours, she came from her lodging to my house, and said, she did know whether she had a friend or not, or such like words, and accepted of the work house. After that, some body told me, if that woman died, Mr. Morris would be brought into question. I called upon Mr. Morris the day following, and said, I understood you have been a friend to this poor woman; our workhouse is not a proper place for her, I think an hospital is better. He reply'd, she had been in an hospital; I desired him o call at my house, if he had any thing more to say about it, but know nothing of his calling. I went to her at the workhouse, and told her, I heard that if she died, Mr. Morris would be called to an account. I asked her, if he was the occassion of her death, if she died; she said, she had got the better of it, or words to that effect. After she was dead, we went to Mr. Howard in Covent-Garden, and he came and saw the body.
Q. Was the body opened?
Storton. No, it was not.
Q. What did she die of?
Storton. That I cannot tell.
I stand here accused for murder, that I am innocent of; not only that, but the murdering a person that I had a very tender respect for, which I shall make the court sensible of, and that she died a natural death; I never used her with the least degree of cruelty; I ever shewed her the greatest respect and kindness; we were very intimate together; yet in our intimacy, little quarrels sometimes arose, and I cannot say, but that I might give her a little slap, but not to do her the least injury; I have very rarely given her a little slap.
For the Prisoner.
John Penfold . I am apothecary to the workhouse of St. Giles's; I remember the deceased being there, I attended her; I asked her if she had been beat, because she complained of a pain in her side. She told me no. She had not received any injury from any body. I said, tell me particularly, or I cannot tell what to give you.
Q. Was she under your care when she died?
Penfold. She was.
Q. Did she charge or discharge any body?
Penfold. She did not mention any person to me, or to any body else, as I know of.
Q. What do you think was the cause of her death?
Penfold. She was in a languishing condition, and almost starved for want; I found her very low, and very weak, she had a decay upon her. She said, she had but very little victuals to eat. My opinion was, she died of a decay, not by any violence of any kind in the world. I asked her, if there were any marks of violence upon her; she said, no.
Q. What was the nurse's name?
Penfold. Her name is Woodcock.
Q. Why did not you attend the coroner?
Penfold. Because I was not asked.
Mary Woodcock . I was the nurse that attended this woman, deceased; the day before she died Mr. Morris came to see her, she seemed to be very bad; she said, she had got a great cold, and a violent purging; I hearing of this affair, I really taxed her with the thing. I said, you are very bad; if you have received any violent blows, or abuse from this man, or any body else, don't die with a lie in your mouth, but tell the truth, that they may be brought to justice. She said, Nurse, no, I have not received any ill usage from any body, neither will I lay my death to his charge upon any account.
M. Woodcock. I believe as much as any thing, it was from a violent cold upon her bowels, and a violent purging.
Acquitted . [The deceased died a natural death.]
317. (L). Samuel Lee , was indicted for feloniously uttering, and publishing, as true, a false bill of exchange, with the name Benjamin Sutton thereunto subscribed, bearing date at Leicester, 17th of October, for the payment of 50 l. with intention to defraud John Price . It was laid also with intention to defraud Mess. Frame and Co. Dec. 20 . ++
Q. In what situation is he of late?
Price. He is a man deprived of sight, so is under a necessity of having a person to transact business for him.
Q. The bills drawn upon you from him, who are they drawn by?
Q. What is Mr. Powser?
Price. He is a hosier.
Q. What are you?
Price. I am a merchant.
Q. What do you correspond with him in?
Price. In money only; he was a man in busisiness, in the hosiery way, and he takes the excise money for the county of Derby; he used to remit me sometimes a thousand pounds a month, it answered his purpose in the country, and I was his agent here to pay it into the Bank, when I had collected in his bills and money. Now he has of late taken up money at Leicester, to answer his occasions, and made remittances to me to answer his drafts; he made his drafts upon me, and always sent me materials to answer them.
Price. He was.
Q. Where did he reside?
Price. At Leicester; they both live there, Mr. Powser, and Mr. Sutton.
Q. Were the bills drawn by Mr. Sutton, on the account of Mr. Powser, accepted as Mr. Powser's bills?
Price. All Mr. Sutton's bills, whom I considered as agent for Mr. Powser, I always paid as Mr. Powser's bills, because I had an order so to do from Mr. Powser.
Q . How many clerks had Mr. Powser at home?
Price. He had two or three.
Q. Have you seen Mr. Powser often?
Price. I never saw him but once; but I had an order from him, to pay all the bills drawn by Mr. Sutton, or any of his other clerks.
Q. Who gave you that order? Did not Mr. Sutton write that order?
Price. No, Sir.
Q. How long has Mr. Sutton been his agent?
Price. He has near as long as I have corresponded with Mr. Powser, he used to settle accounts for his master.
Q. Had you this order by letter from Mr. Powser?
Price. I cannot say I received any letter from Mr. Powser, signed by his own hand.
Q. When the account was settled between Mr. Powser and you, did he always allow the account?
Q. Whether you ever settled any account with Mr. Powser?
Price. Yes, a great many.
Q. Did he approve of them?
Price. Yes, he did.
Q. Whether you have not had an answer under the hand of Mr. Sutton, with regard to settling your accounts rightly?
Price. Yes, generally for his master, that Mr. Powser has approved of the account. Mr. Sutton writes word back, that either it is right, or right, subject to such error.
Q. Did you direct your letters to Mr. Sutton?
Q. No money past between Mr. Sutton and you?
Price. I don't know that ever a penny past between us.
Q. Whether there has not been in you, transacting a great many accounts with Mr. Powser, several mistakes in the time of your correspondence together?
Q. Has not the prisoner at the bar been an instrument in settling most of your mistakes?
Price. No. I have trusted him to be sure.
Q. Was you his clerk in the year 1760, in October?
Sutton. I was, and was imploy'd as his agent to draw bills for him.
Q. About the 17th of October 1760, was you authorized to draw bills upon him in town?
Sutton. I have been authorized ever since I have been with him, to draw bills upon his account.
Q. What, as a partner?
Sutton. No, not as a partner.
Sutton. No, Sir, it is not my hand-writing.
Q. Did you draw this bill?
Sutton. No, I did not.
Q. Have you seen the prisoner often?
Sutton. I never saw him but once that I know of, and that some years ago; therefore I cannot form any idea of him.
Q. Is this like your hand-writing?
Sutton. It is a great deal like my writing; I was a good deal shock'd at first, when I saw it
Sutton. I know I never did draw it?
Counsel. You say, when you first saw it, it shock'd you
Sutton. It did a good deal; it was a good deal like my hand writing.
Counsel. Then you could not be certain at first.
Sutton. No, I could not.
Q. What has made you more certain since?
Sutton. By searching Mr. Powser's books.
Q. Is that the only reason?
Sutton. No, there are two indorsers; I went to them, and they had no such account on their books.
Q. Upon your oath, whether is this your handwriting or not?
Sutton. It is not my hand-writing, upon my oath it is not; I am very certain of it.
Sutton. Yes, always.
Q. Do you recollect you omitted entering one of this sort?
Sutton. We always enter them down in two books.
Q. Are you certain you enter them?
Sutton. I am very certain of that.
Q. Is there any entry made of this bill
Sutton. No, there is not, I am very certain of that.
Q. Where do the indorsers live?
Q. Do you know of any bill delivered to you, in order to be carried for payment? Look upon the bill in question?
Q. Of whom did you receive the bill?
Arnold. I received it of the prisoner at the bar; he directed me at the same time, to carry it, and receive the money.
Q. Were there any particular circumstances attended it? Or were there any particular directions of any sort? Or was there any particular behaviour of the person?
Arnold. The prisoner came to the Amsterdam coffee-house, about four o'clock in the afternoon, I think on the 20th of December; I was not in the coffee-room, when he came in (my mistress is an antient gentlewoman) I was down in the kitchen; my mistress called me up from dinner, and said, a gentleman wanted me; I went to the table to the prisoner at the bar, he had this bill in his hand; he asked me, if I knew Frome and Barclay's, in Lombard-street; I said, I did not know directly. He began and told me where it was, and said, Will you go and receive this bill for me of 50 l. I said, I had rather you
Q. Look upon the prisoner, are you sure you know him?
Arnold. I am certain the prisoner is the man.
Q. Had you ever seen him before?
Arnold. I had one day before, and know him particularly well.
Q. Did you see him after that?
Arnold. I did, he came to our house afterwards.
Q. How soon after you went and brought him the money?
Arnold. About six or eight days after, he called me to him, and said, if any person came there, and asked him any questions about the bill, I was to tell them, I received it of a fat, lusty, broad-shoulder'd gentleman. [Note, The prisoner was the reverse.]
Q. Are you certain to the number of days it was after you paid him the money?
Arnold. I am not certain, but I believe it was about six or eight days after that.
Q. What reply did you make him?
Arnold. I do not recollect that I made him any reply at all; but immediately I went away, having some suspicion it was not right.
The bill read, to this purport.
Leicester, 17 Oct. 1760.
Two months after date, pay Mess. Pitts, Ward, and Co. or order, 50 l. value received, for Mr. Thomas Powser, as advice, by Sir,
On the back, Mess. Freame and Barclay, pray pay this bill.
Counsel. This was a direction on the back to the evidence, in order for him to go and carry the bill.
Q. When was it you saw the prisoner, before he brought the bill to you?
Arnold. It was the day before he brought the bill, in December last.
Q. You say, he came about four in the afternoon; were the candles lighted at that time?
Arnold. I do not say it was absolutely four; I believe we lighted candles soon after he was gone; it was near dusk.
Counsel. We shall next prove, that Mess. Freame and Barclay, upon the bill being tendered with Mr. Price's acceptance upon it, paid the bill to the person that brought it.
Q. Where did you pay it?
Benning. I paid it at Freame and Barclay's, I am clerk there; I paid it by the direction of Mr. Price, upon the back of it.
Q. Does Mr. Price keep cash at your house?
Benning. He does.
Q. Do you know the witness Arnold?
Q. Do not you make a mark upon a bill in order to show who paid it?
Benning. No, Sir, but I chiefly pay all, if it is in paid money.
Q. to Arnold. Do you know this witness?
Arnold. I think I saw him that day, but I cannot take upon me to say who paid me; but some-body did pay me there.
Q. to Benning. Do you know this man Arnold?
Benning. I cannot take upon me to swear I do.
Q. Look at the back of the bill, see if you know to whom it was paid?
Arnold. I did, it is my writing.
Arnold. I think it was about four o'clock.
Q. from Prisoner. What light was there in the alley, that you could distinctly see I was the man; I do declare I never was in your house; consider young man what what you have done, it is upon life and death?
Arnold. I am certain of the prisoner's person.
Q. What time of the day was it he came to you, to describe him as a thick person?
Arnold. I do not remember the time of the day; but I think it was in the afternoon, not late; but I am certain he is the man, I am confident of that; and that he is the man that came afterwards, and desired me to describe him, as a lusty sat man.
Q. from Prisoner. Upon your oath, how long did I stay with you, when I came, as you say, a second time?
Arnold. I am certain I know the prisoner, I saw him three times in the coffee room, he staid with me out a very little time.
Prisoner. Was I upon m oath now, as I am upon life and death, I can safely swear, I do not know where the Amsterdam coffee-house stands; I never was in it in my life.
Q. from Prisoner. Were there any people in the coffee-room, when you say I was there?
Arnold. It was not very full of people; there were scarce any gentlemen there at the time.
Prisoner. You are a good painter, to take people off to swear plumply to me now; and when you came into Newgate to me, you was asked by Mr. Price's clerk, if you knew that person; you look'd at me and said, you thought I was the person; and trembled as if you was afraid of speaking to me, and said, you must swear to me.
Arnold. I was not afraid, nor had I any occasion to speak to the prisoner.
Q. from Prisoner. By what means could you distinct, know I was the person, when you had never saw me for 10 months, by you own account.
Arnold. I saw the prisoner within six or eight days after he delivered me the bill.
Q. from Prisoner. What hour of the day was it, that I came as you say to you a second time?
Arnold. I cannot particularly say the hour, but I knew then the prisoner was the same person that I delivered the money to.
Q. from Prisoner. Did you pick me out in Newgate, or was I described to you by Mr. Price's clerk?
Arnold. He was not described to me at all, I knew him as soon as I saw him in Newgate.
Prisoner. You was five minutes looking at me before you spoke.
Arnold. Mr. Price's clerk is in court, he can give an account of the matter.
In the first place, my lord, I should be glad to know my prosecutor. Mr. Price, are you my prosecutor?
Court. This is a prosecution at the suit of the public, in order to bring to justice every body guilty of these offences; it is immaterial who it is.
Prisoner. Mess. Freame and Barclay being the aggrieved persons, I do not find their names on the bill of indictment.
Court. The first account in the indictment is laid for publishing a false bill of exchange with intend to defraud John Price . The second for publishing an acceptance of John Price, with intention to defraud John Price . The third for publishing an acceptance of John Price , with intention to defraud Mess. Freame and Barclay. And the fourth for publishing an order of John Price 's, with intention to defraud John Price . And the fifth account with intention to defraud Mess. Freame and Barclay.
Prisoner. I should imagine Freame and Barclay were prosecutors, and not or Mr. Price.
Court. You have made that an objection, which is none at all.
Prisoner. I have known Mr. Price, in hurry of business, direct a bill to be paid; and I have asked him two hours afterwards, and he has not recollected he has directed such a bill at all; and if there is Mr. Price's direction on the back of the bill. I should apprehend it is his handwriting, and not mine. May it please your lordship, has there any circumstance appeared yet that I forged the bill?
Counsel. You are not indicted for that; you are indicted for uttering a bill, knowing it to have been forged.
Prisoner. In my servi ude to Mr. Price, I paid, I can justly say, three thousand bills of Mr. Price's; so that it is reasonable to suppose I knew Mr. Sutton's hand-writing; but this bill I am ignorant of, it is the 10 l. bill that I am to be tried upon. All of them, for three years past,
Q. to Price. How long had the prisoner lived with you?
Price. He lived with me four years.
For the Prisoner.
Q. How long before?
Hughes. It may be three or four months before; I have seen him once or twice before he came to the King's-bench; that was some time before Christmas, but I cannot be certain how long.
Q. Was you a prisoner there?
Hughes. I was.
Q. Was it a week before Christmas?
Hughes. If I speak to the best of my knowledge, I really believe it was some time more than a week before; I was a prisoner there twelve months before.
Q. Can you be positive you knew him there a week before Christmas?
Hughes. I cannot; I did not know that I should be called upon, otherwise I could have enquired. Upon my oath, to the best of my knowledge, I do think it was a week before Christmas. I cannot take upon me to say positively; I could as well think two weeks as one, but cannot be positive. I think he went away a little before March, and I believe he was a prisoner there full two months.
Q. Was not you at all apprized of being a witness 'till to-day?
Hughes. I was not upon my oath.
Q. What time did you know you was to be a witness?
Hughes. Never, 'till the prisoner now called upon me.
Q. Was you never with him in prison?
Hughes. I was two or three times.
Q. How long ago?
Hughes. Two or three months ago; I called with a friend or two to drink a glass of wine with him.
Q. Was he a prisoner within the walls, or not?
Hughes. To the best of my knowledge he was a prisoner within the walls.
Q. Had you the rules?
Hughes. I had.
Q. Had he the rules, or not?
Hughes. I think he had not; I was then very intimate with him, and was often, and frequently, with him.
Q. How comes it you cannot with certainty tell whether he had the rules or not?
Hughes. We that were in prison had some sort of indulgence from the marshal to go out, and see a friend or so..
Q. Was the prisoner in execution?
Hughes. I cannot take upon me to say he was; I saw him within the walls often, and frequently he lodged with Mr. Champion, who is there now; he is a bankrupt, and cannot be discharged.
Q. Has he never desired you to recollect yourself, to remember when you saw him in the King's-bench?
Hughes. Upon my oath never; he never proposed any such thing to me in his life.
Q. Was you a prisoner there?
Holeman. No, I went as an acquaintance, to see Mr. Lee; I saw him before Christmas, and after Christmas, and between whiles, and never saw him out.
Richard Elstone . I did not come here to give the man a character, only I have a prisoner here. He was an inside prisoner at the King's-bench; he was there about last Christmas; I cannot take upon me to say what time; I remember the man.
Q. Can you take upon you to say it was before last Christmas?
Elstone. I cannot, I know it was about that time.
Philips. I cannot take upon me to say what time in particular; I know he was there in the middle of December, it was extream cold weather.
Q. What time in December?
Philips. I believe it might be, perhaps, the 10th of December.
Q. Was he a close prisoner within the Bench?
Philips. He was.
Q. How long did he continue there?
Philips. I cannot take upon me to say how long; I cannot take upon me to say the day of the month in particular; I know I saw him after Christmas a close prisoner within the walls.
Q. to Elstone. Are the prisoners ever allowed to go out of prison?
Elstone. No, not unless in term-time, the turnkey would let them out into the rules.
Q. Will they let them go out of the rules?
Elstone. No, not unless it be term-time; but I cannot take upon me to say what is done there; I only go over with a prisoner, and deliver him there.
Q. Are the prisoners within the walls by the marshal permitted to go out into the rules?
Elstone. That is to take a walk for an airing; I have known a prisoner taken out, and a bond has been given for him on the Sunday; I have been with them, but then they have been taken no farther than the rules; if I do, I am fixed with the debt.
Q. Whether the marshal lets them go out of the walls of the goal into the rules?
Elstone. No, I told you the turnkey does it, but not with the consent of the marshal.
Q. The question is plain, Whether the prisoners are suffered to go out of the King's-bench into the rules?
Q. Have you seen it done?
Elstone. I have.
Q. What to let the prisoners out upon their request?
Elstone. I think I have seen them let out, but upon what account I cannot say.
Q. If a man is suffered to go out into the rules, has he not an opportunity to go over the bridge to Lombard-street?
Elstone. It is possible.
John Brooks . I have known the prisoner at the bar from an infant; I was born at Spalding, a neighbour of his father's, and knew him 'till he was 13 or fourteen years old there. He was as sober and well-behaved a youth, as any lad in town, and his father brought him up with the greatest virtue. I have known him since he lived with Mr. Price, I never was there, I have met him in the street.
Q. What is his general character?
For the crown.
Q. Look at this paper, is this your handwriting? [He takes it in his hand.]
Absolom. Yes, it is.
Q. Look on the other side of it, did you ever see the prisoner, where, and when?
Absolom. He came to me at the Cock-alehouse, at the corner of Sherborne-lane, on the 20th of December, and delivered this note into my hand.
Counsel. This is a 10 l. bill.
Q. Why do you know it was the 20th of December?
Absolom. Because when I go upon these affairs, I generally make a memorandum; this was to receive some money of Mr. John Price , for him, and I received it in the name of one Welden; the prisoner at the bar ordered me to go, and receive it.
Guilty Death .
318. (M.) Richard Parrott , was indicted for the wilful murder of Anne his wife , by cutting her tongue out , &c. he likewise stood charged on the coroner's inquest for the said murder, September 20 +
Q. What parish?
Haines. The parish of Harmansworth ; her son, Richard Parrott , who is about 26 or 27 years of age, took the knife from my hand, and shewed it to his mother; who took it, and put it across her throat; then delivered it to me, and put her hand upon my knee, then her hand upon her own breast; signifying, as we thought, that he kneeled upon her.
Q. Did you see any bruises about her body?
Haines. There were very great marks of violence, one upon the right-side of her neck, another on her nose, that were very black. The next day I saw her again, she was very bad then; that day I delivered him here into Newgate.
Q. Could she speak then?
Haines. No, she could not.
Q. When did she die?
Haines. She lived 'till the 7th of October.
Q. When was this done?
Haines. On the 20th of September.
Q. Did you see her any more after this?
Haines. No, not 'till after she was dead.
Q. What do you think was the cause of her death?
Haines. We have reason to think it was that of cutting her tongue out; to affirm it I cannot; she never was well afterwards.
Prisoner. She was after me with a gun, and threatened to shoot me.
Q. to Haines. Do you know any thing of his wife's attempting to shoot him?
Haines. No, I do not.
Valentine West. I live in the next parish to where the prisoner did; our parishes join near where he lived; so that we did not live much above 200 yards distance. On the 20th of September the children came and alarmed the neighbours, and said their father had cut their mother's tongue out. I made to the house with a neighbour as fast as I could.
Q. What was that neighbour's name?
West. His name is Thomas Pierce We stopped a little to hear if we could hear the woman speak. In the mean time the prisoner came out of the house with a spade in his hand, and some ashes upon it, and threw them down on the dunghill.
Q. Did you see any blood?
West. No, I did not; I said, Hollo, Richard, what is the matter? I spoke pretty loud, knowing him to be pretty hard of hearing. He made no answer, but went into the house. I followed him in, and no sooner turned my head, but I saw the woman sitting; she was very bloody, particularly her mouth; her shift was either torn or cut down; she had no stays on; I cannot say what other cloaths she had on. I said nothing to her, but took him by the collar, and with my left-hand held his right-hand, and said, Lord have mercy upon me, Richard, what have you been at? He said, she has been blowing me, and I have only took a piece of her tongue off. I looked hard at her, and she made motions with her hand to her throat several times.
Q. Which way did she make motions?
West. She put the ends of her fingers to her throat; I said come Richard, go along with me, let you and I go and drink. Aye, said he, where shall we go? His house stands upon the common; he built it himself. I sent for a surgeon, or she would have bled to death. He said, Let me go, and I will send for one. I took him away to the constable's.
Q. Did you see the woman after this?
West. I did several times, but I did not ask her a great many questions.
Q. Could she speak?
West. She could, as I could understand her; she held her hands together, clasping her fingers, and prayed for me; and said, God bless you for coming in at that time.
Q. How long did she live after this?
West. She lived a fortnight and three days. As the prisoner and I were coming down the common, I said, What did you cut it with? it must
Q. Did he shew you the knife?
West. No, he did not; nor did I examine him, I only asked him what he had done with the knife. He said he had hid it somewhere.
Q. Was he sober?
West. He was very sober; there was a man in the parish some time ago, that killed his father; I said to the prisoner, you are as bad as Dick Urwin , that killed his father, did not you think of him? His answer was, He was not in his senses, but I am. When we came to the constable's, on the left-hand side of his great coat was a sort of a pocket; there this knife was taken out. [ Producing a longer clasp-knife than the other.]
Q. Did he own this to be the knife with which he cut his wife's tongue out?
West. No he did not.
Q. to Haines. Did you hear him say any thing about this knife?
Haines. He said this was not the knife.
Q. How near is that to where the fact was committed?
Frogley. It is about four miles distant; I was sent for on a Sunday morning, five weeks ago I believe next Sunday. I went to the woman and found her lying on the bed, with her head hanging over the side, spitting out blood. I ordered the people to get her off the bed, that it might be more handy for me to see what was wounded I looked in her mouth, and saw part of her tongue was gone; but how much, I could form no judgment.
Q. Could she speak?
Frogley. No, she could not then; I believe I was with her about half an hour; with a yptick and lint I stopped the blood. When I found that was stopped, I ordered her to bed, and told her I would send her something to wash her mouth with; and bid her use no force, but be gentle with it, lest it should see it a bleeding again. I left her. The next morning I went again, and found her mouth and jaw greatly swelled.
Q. Could she speak then?
Frogley. No, she could not; she sat up in a chair; I tried to see how much of the tongue he had taken away, but could not discover that; I saw some scurf. Seemingly to stick at the roof of her mouth, and with my instrument removed it, that she might swallow. I ordered her mouth to be poulticed, and for them to keep washing her mouth. I visited her, I believe, on the Tuesday, and found the parts much swelled.
Q. Could she speak then?
Frogley. She could not; then I thought the swelling a small matter subsided, and desired them to supply her with broth; and found, by enquiring of the women, she could swallow with difficulty. I believe I was there on the Wednesday, but am not sure. I visited her continually 'till the swelling came down, which was I believe the fifth day; I thought she was out of danger; I believe the 5th day, she spoke to me, and told me that it was her husband that cut her tongue out. When the swelling came down, I looked into her mouth, and found on the left-side, upon her jaw, something had bruised the jaw more than cutting; I saw scurf lie there, and enquired what he cut it with; she said a knife. I then discovered there was a large piece of the tongue gone; I believe it was on the Sunday I asked her how she came to put her tongue out to let her husband cut it. She could not speak then, but made motions with her hand; she put her hand down, and crawed it up her belly.
Q. What did you understand by that?
Frogley. I could not tell what to understand by it; but the people told me that he offered to rip her up, which I afterwards found to be true. The fifth day she explained that motion; I asked her the question again; she told me he saw, if I did not put my tongue out, that he would rip me up, or cut my throat. I desired them to give her what nourishment she would take, such as paada, broth &c. I attended her 'till the Thursday before her death; then I looked upon her tongue to be out of danger. On the Saturday after, going by the door, I called in to; I saw something, which I found to be a bit of egg. She said she been eating an egg. The next day I called in, she told me the side of her mouth was sore; I could not see any thing. She told me before that he had broke four of her teeth. I thought a stamp might cut her; I thought then she might do very well. She lived 'till Wednesday; that day I saw her last, that day she died.
Q. What did she die of?
Frogley. I cannot directly say. When I saw her that time, I could see, when I went into the room, her cheek violently red. I asked her to get up, that I might see into her mouth; I found that activity gone, as I had observed before; I could hardly get her mouth open. I found some scurf upon her tongue, and got a bit of rig, but could not wipe it off. The people told me she had been taken very ill with a vomiting and purging about two hours. I found her very bad, but did not think
Q. What was the cause of her death?
Frogley. I cannot be clear of that; whether the vomiting and purging, or whether that of cutting out of her tongue, The justice was with me; he asked me my thoughts; I said to him, indeed I cannot be clear; she had a fever.
Q. Was that fever occasioned by the cutting out of her tongue?
Frogley. I cannot say.
Q. What do you think brought on the vomiting and purging?
Frogley. That seemed to be brought on of itself.
Q. Suppose the tongue had not been cut out, would this vomiting and purging have come on?
Frogley. It might be, she being in a weak state; and by the loss of blood, the diseases might carry her off the sooner.
Q. Was there any putrefaction?
Frogley. There was a scurf upon her tongue, but the heat of the fever might cause that; but I could not get at it directly to see what it was.
Q. What is your opinion upon the whole? If her tongue had not been cut, and those disorders had come upon her, upon proper application might she have done well?
Frogley. That might be the case; her constitution having been weakened, they might carry her off; and I cannot say one way or other.
Q. Would not the great loss of blood bring on a fever?
Frogley. Loss of blood generally prevents a fever; we empty the vessels in such a case, that no intamation may succeed.
Q. After people have been wounded, and lost a great deal of blood, is it not common to have a fever follow it?
Frogley. Not from the loss of blood.
Q. Does not a wound often cause fever?
Frogley. It often does cause a great fever; that is the reason we make evacuations, in order to prevent that fever.
Q. Did you see any bruises on any other parts of her body?
Frogley. No, I did not; I asked her if she was bruised; she told me had kneeled upon her, and tumbled her down, and they bad had a struggle.
Q. Could not that kneeling upon her bring on a fever?
Frogley. I did not find any fever upon her 'till the Wednesday; she said he broke out four of her teeth, in attempting to cut out her tongue.
Q. Did the tongue appear to be cut out?
Frogley. It did, within the mouth.
Mary Dew . The officers of the parish desired I would go and nurse the deceased; I went to her on the Monday, the day after the fact was done. I staid a week with her; she was very much swelled, and her mouth very much abused; I poulticed it, and brought it down, and put plaisters of brown paper and treacle to her throat.
Q. Did she ever speak to you?
M. Dew. She did, on the Wednesday; I sat down by her, and asked her if her husband and she bad had any words, to bring it to that; she told me no, no farther than this, he called up the biggest boy and girl to go and fetch the cow, and she said, Richard, why need the boy go, one can go as well as both, the girl goes every day of the week, let the boy go this morning; it was very wet, and the girl almost naked; she got up to make a fire against the girl came in, and her husband was immediately at her heels: she wondered what was the reason he got up so soon; he pinn'd the door; she said, Richard, why do you pin the door? He went up to her, and took her by the shoulders. Sit down, said he. What should I sit down for, Richard said she. She sat down, he took her by the shoulder again; he kissed her; she thought her husband was very loving; she wished he had no evil in his heart; he went to look for a snickasee knife, then he went to her, and in a devilish motion, and down'd with her across the hearth, and swore, G - d d - n her, if she did not put out her tongue he would kill her, he would rip her up; she put up her hands, and said, Pray, Richard, for God's-sake don't kill me; why do you offer to hurt me? I don't hurt you. He tore three stumps of teeth from one side of her head, and four from the other; but if he had done her no other harm, she should do very well; for when she got a little cold it went to them stumps, and gave her pain. Still he insisted upon her tongue; she scuffled as long as she was able, till she thought she must die; he pinched her upon her cheek and nose, till her nose was as black as a hat; she said she believed he opened her mouth, but remembered nothing of her putting her tongue out; her throat was very black.
Q. Was much of her tongue cut off?
M. Dew. It was cut to the root, all beyond the guides underneath.
Q. How long did you nurse her?
M. Dew. I nursed her the first week, and no longer.
Q. Did you see the body after she was dead?
M. Dew. I was sent for after she was dead, I
Q. Upon the whole, what do you think was the cause of her death?
Q. Do you know any thing of this affair?
L. Cooper. Yes, I was the first woman that went to her assistance; I found her in a very dismal manner, sitting in a chair, by the feet of the bed; she had neither cap or handkerchief on, and the bosom of her shift open as low as her apron-string, and her breasts bare, her mouth all bloody; she sat spitting, and pulling the blood out of it; she pointed to a porridge-pot, there I looked, and saw a handkerchief and a clout, all bloody: she said, Hem, hem, hem, describing he had cut off the string of her petticoat to take off her apron; but as her tongue was cut out, I could not properly understand her.
Q. Did she tell you when she came to her speech?
L. Cooper. I sat up with her one time, and said to her, Mrs. Parrot, if you can make me sensible of the truth, do; she leaned up in the bed upon her elbow, and shewed me with her right-hand cross the fire-place, with her face towards the side of the bed, and her head towards the window; and then she clapt her hand to her throat, mouth, and nose, and said that she expected nothing but death.
Q. How did she speak?
L. Cooper. She spoke very thick, and mentioned a snickasnee knife, and told me he insisted upon her tongue, and when she thought she must die, she believed she opened her mouth, and he, in the struggling, got the knife into her mouth, and pulled out several teeth; that he turned the knife first on one side, then on the other, and cut the roof of her mouth and sides.
Q. Was her tongue cut out?
L. Cooper. It was.
Q. Did you ever look into her mouth?
L. Cooper. I never could have a heart to look in.
Q. Did you see her often?
L. Cooper. I saw her most days till she died.
Q. What do you attribute her death to?
L. Cooper. To the want of subsistance to support her; she somewhat revived, and told me, with tears in her eyes, she should be starved to death, for she could not swallow.
Q. Do you think that was occasioned by the wound she received?
L. Cooper. To the best of my judgment this wound brought all upon her, and was the cause of her death.
Q. Did you see her before?
S. Marsh. I had seen her on the Monday before, then she was much swelled all over her mouth and throat, and could not take any thing in, to support her.
Q. Did she tell you any thing on the Thursday?
S. Marsh. She told me her husband threw her down in the house, and kneeled upon her, and said, D - n you, you b - h, if you don't open your mouth, and let me have your tongue, I'll rip you up; and that he cut it out by violence.
Q. Did she say some of her teeth were out?
S. Marsh. I did not hear her.
Q. Did you see the body after she was dead?
S. Marsh. I did, when the coroner sat upon her.
Q. What do you think was the occasion of her death?
S. Marsh. I believe it turned to a mortification, and by that means killed her.
She was running after me to shoot me, and I ran away as fast as I could; she frightned me; I was down in Hertfordshire, making of hurdler.
For the Prisoner.
Richard Parrott . I am son to the prisoner at the bar, my mother sent for me a fortnight before this accident happened, by one of my young brothers; he told me my mother would have me come to see my father, because he was out of his mind.
Q. How long is that ago?
Parrott. It is two months ago last Monday.
Q. Where do you live?
Parrott. At Richmond. I went and saw my father, and got two young men to go with me; my father and mother were in the reaping-field; the first words my mother said to me were, My dear, your father is out of his mind, and I am
Q. Was this by day or night?
Parrott. I do not know that; my father told me my mother had poisoned him, and that she had dressed his cloaths with poison; my mother said he had cut his cloaths to pieces, and buried them.
Q. How long did you stay with him?
Parrott. I staid about three or four hours; he told me people were coming after him, and there were very bad things, and he thought he should not live long.
Q. Was he sober?
Parrott. He was.
Q. Were there many people reaping in the field at the time?
Parrott. No; my father and mother were by themselves, only the children; we went to the alehouse, and I gave them some beer.
Q. How far is Richmond from their house?
Appleton. I believe it is seven miles, or better. I saw the prisoner in the reaping-field with his wife.
Q. How long were you with them?
Appleton. We were there about three or four hours.
Q. Who else were there with them?
Appleton. There were the children, and nobody else.
Q. What did you hear him say, or see him do?
Appleton. We asked his wife what was the matter with him; she said she thought he was out of his mind, she could not tell what was the matter with him, she was almost afraid to live with him, he got up at odd hours, and ran about, and conceited people were coming to kill him, and seemed out of his mind.
Q. What did you hear him say?
Appleton. He said she had poisoned his cloaths, and he had cut them all to pieces, and buried them; he said he was forced to leave them off, for the poison eat into them, and would have killed him, if he had not left them off.
Thomas Cox . I live at Richmond, I was there the very day the accident happened, which was on a Sunday; I being a neighbour to his son, he sent for me to go along with him: when we came to the place where his father was, he asked his father how he came to serve his mother so; he said she did not use him well, she had tried to poison him, and make away with him, and she had dressed his cloaths all over with brimstone, and he had buried them in the ground behind his house. His son went to see if he could find them, I went along with him, he took a spade, and dug his coat up, but we could not perceive any thing done to it.
Q. Was it bloody?
Cox. No, it was not: it had been buried, as I was informed, three weeks before this happened.
Q. Do you know any thing of his being out of his senses?
Cox. I have heard his son say he had been out of his mind.
Q. Did you ever see any act of lunacy by him yourself?
Q. to R. Parrott. Why did you not confine your father, when you was told he was out of his senses?
Parrott. I was not able.
Q. What was you sent for to do?
Parrott. I was sent for to talk to him.
Q. to Haines. How long have you known the prisoner?
Haines. I have known him from a little boy, we were both born in a parish.
Q. Have you heard what Cox the witness and the son have said?
Haines. I have, but I know nothing of it; I never saw the prisoner do any act of lunacy.
Q. How did he behave under your care?
Haines. He behaved very sensibly and well.
Q. Did you ever hear from the neighbours that he was out of his senses?
Haines. There was some talk of what this young man speaks of; but as to the truth of it, I can say nothing to that.
Q. Was the prisoner capable of knowing good from evil while under your care?
Haines. He was.
Q. to West. Do you think he was capable of knowing good from evil?
West. I believe at the time he did it, he did not think he should be hanged for it; but he knew what he did.
Guilty Death .
This being Friday, he received sentence immediately, to be executed on the Monday following, and his body to be dissected and anatomized.
William Bailey , was indicted, for that Robert Stimpson , not taken, unlawfully and wickedly did lay hands on the prisoner Bailey, in order to commit the detestable crime of sodomy; and that he, the said Bailey, was consenting and yielding to the said Stimpson, in order for him to commit the said detestable crime . ++
Q. What are you?
Cooper. I am a butcher, my shop is in Leaden-hall-market: as I come home from Leadenhall-market, I come thro' the Cross-keys inn , there is a very dark passage, I have frequently run against men there, and I never could tell the reason of it.
Q. How often have you run against men there?
Cooper. Twenty different times I am sure On the 28th of July I ran against a couple of men there, which I thought stood still; I took hold of one of them by the neck, and drove him before me, till he went out into the alley, close to the fencing-school, where is a lamp over the door; he had a flapt hat on; there I stopt him; I looked under his hat, and said, What the D - I do you stand lurking about here for? They passed by me into the alley; I turned my head over my shoulder, and saw them stop at the passage, which is very narrow; then I went, and rang at my own door, and was there about a couple of minutes before I was let in; while I was standing at my own door, I thought I heard those two men in the passage again; I heard them whisper; I went into my house, and shut the door after me, but did not fasten it: my man was just going to bed; I said, Do not go to bed John, follow me down; I took the candle in my hand, and said to him, I believe there are a couple of very bad fellows in the alley. I hid the candle with my fingers, and jumped across the way into this dark passage, that goes into the Cross-keys-inn; there I saw two bad men, in a very indecent posture: my man followed me down close behind me.
Q. Who were the two men?
Cooper. They were the prisoner and a footman, named Stimpson, there is a yard-door opens in the passage; the prisoner leantdown behind that door, his breeches were down, with his back towards the footman, and the footman's breeches down, very near together; the footman had hold of him. I laid hold of the prisoner immediately, and my man the other. The footman said, I think, he lived at Mr. Page's in Queen-street, I saw both their private parts: I said, John, hold him, while I well drub this; I never designed to do any otherwise, if my neighbours had not perswaded me to it: they made no resistance in the world, but begg'd and pray'd I would let them go, for it would be the ruin of them; they were both taken to the watch-house; the prisoner said he knew a gentleman in Grace-church-street, that would see him forth-coming the next day before my lord mayor: then the man in livery said, Why should you be so hard upon me, to consine me, and not him, who was more to blame than I was? The people perswaded me to have him committed: they were the next day brought to Guildhall, and examined before Sir Robert Ladbroke : they made no defence at all, no otherwise than this, which is a very trisling excuse; the man in livery seemed to give an account that he was going to the Post-office, and was going home, and obliged to go thro' that passage, and he lived in Queen-street: the prisoner said he lived in Bishopsgate-street, and going thro' the Cross-keys inn, he told the clock eleven; and while he was telling the clock, he saw me lay hold of the other young man, as he was making water; but that was not so, for I laid hold of him, and my man laid hold of the footman: the Post-office was shut up at that time.
Q. Is this passage a thorough-fare?
Cooper. It is, and very likely known to all here.
Q. How long have you lived in that place?
Cooper. I have lived there going on better than half a year.
Q. Where have you carried on business before?
Cooper. I lived in Leadenhall market. all my life time. I now live within 100 yards of the place where I served my time.
Q. Did you see them touch one another at all?
Cooper. I did, I saw them extreamly close together; and the footman's hands were upon this man. I never shall vary from the truth, cross examine me a thousand times; I have no reward, but a great deal of trouble in bringing such villains as these to justice.
Q. Have you brought many such as these to justice?
Cooper. I never attempted to detect any man living before.
Q. Did you never ask the constable whether
Cooper. No. never in my life.
Q. Did you ever see the prisoner before?
Cooper. No, not to my knowledge; I saw the footman the week before, in a laced hat.
John Leek . I am servant to Mr. Cooper. On the 28th of July, about 11 at night, I had just eat my supper, and was going to bed. I heard a ringing at the door; who should come in, but my master. He staid a little while, and said, John, follow me; here is a couple of very bad fellows I believe, in the passage. He took a candle, and held it in one hand, with the other over it; he pushed into the passage, and I followed him immediately; he lifted his hand from the candle, there was the prisoner at the bar, with his y - d drawn, and the other withdrawn a little, with his back against the wall, pulling up his breeches; I did not see the other's y - d, my master had got hold of him; the prisoner's back was towards the other man, and my master was before me. I secured the other man with his breeches down, I let him put up his breeches; he said, For God's sake, let me go young man, it will be the ruin of me.
Q. What said the prisoner?
Leek. I know not what he said, for my master had got him, and was going to lick him; but I said, I will not touch mine at all.
Q. Whose back was against the wall?
Leek. Stimson's back was, he had withdrawn a little, and was putting up his breeches, both their breeches were down. at first coming to them, my master said, He was willing to let them go, if any-body would pass their word, they should be forth-coming, to go before the alderman to-morrow. The prisoner said, He had got a friend at Mr. Rigby's Manchester-warehouse, which would see him forth-coming; his name I think was Clifton. I went for him, and he came; he said, The prisoner was no such person; then my master was advised to commit them. Then Stimpson said, Why will you be so hard upon me, to let him go, when he is more in fault than I be.
Q. At the time you and your master went out of the house, what posture was the prisoner in?
Leek. My master had got him by the collar.
Q. Where was Stimpson?
Leek. He was with-drawn, about as far as from here to the wall; (pointing to a place about four yards distance.)
Q. Will you say you saw the prisoner's y - d?
Leek. That I will take my sacrament of.
Q. What answers did they give to that?
Mansfield. They pretended they were not guilty; they said, They were not in the action.
Q. Which of them said so?
Mansfield. I do not know which of them it was.
Stephen Dreseal . I am a watchman; when they were brought into the watchhouse, one of them sent for a friend to talk in his behalf; the gentleman came and offered 10 guineas for his appearance the next morning.
Q. Which of them was that?
Dreseal. That was the man not in livery
David Wilson . I living at the corner of this yard, heard a noise; I ran to see what was the matter, I was told they had catched two men in the act of sodomy, or something of that kind. I said, I was very glad of it, for I had heard of people being catch'd in that alley before.
Q. What sort of a noise did you hear?
Wilson. It was a bustling, confused noise; I saw they had hold of the men, but I do not know that the prisoner was one of them; the men begg'd for God's sake they would not take them away, for it would be the ruin of them
Q. which of them begg'd, as you have said?
Wilson. I do not know which of them; when they came to the watch-house, they made use of words to the same purport; I believe the prosecutor would have let them go, if it had not been for me; the prosecutor seemed to be in a great fluster, and was sadly affrighted, and said, It would bring him into trouble.
Q. Do you know any thing of the matter of fact, or posture they were in?
Wilson. No, - I do not.
The prisoner said nothing in his defence, but called the following witnesses.Samuel Sweeper , the other man, sat upon some leather; I went to ease myself, and just as I was putting up my breeches, the prisoner came with a stinking leg of ham in his hand, he said, Halloo, halloo, halloo, he looked in my face, and said, I was informed there were two sodomites here? Said I What do you mean by that, all the world that knows me, knows I love a woman too well, to be a sodomite; this was in the public leather-market, about 10 at night.
Court. And for that filthy behaviour of yours, in a public market-place in this city, you ought to be punished.
Samuel Sweeper . I went to help Mr. Pool unload a waggon, and after we had done, who should come up, but Gyles Cooper, out of the market, my master went to ease himself behind the pump. Mr. Pool said, What are there two sodomites here? When he saw it was Mr. Cooper, he said, I ask your pardon Mr. Cooper, and said, He was told there were such. Mr. Cooper asked him, who were his authors, he would not tell8 him. If he had not known Mr. Pool, doubtless he might have knocked us both on the head.
Q. When was this?
Sweeper. To the best of my remembrance, it was the 13th of July, at about 10 o'clock at night.
Jelse Lamb. I have known Gyles Cooper, about 12 years, or better; I was coming home one night from the other end of the town, I saw him stop a man and a woman, and detain them some time, and ask them where they were going; and said, What business have you here? I am constable of the night, and I will take you both to the Compter. I stood behind him some time, and heard him talk to them; he took the woman by the arm; I said, Who is that Cooper? He turned round, and said, Yes. I said, What are you doing here? Only a bit of fun, said he.
Q. What is his character among people acquainted with him?
Lamb. It is but a very indifferent character.
Q. Where do you live?
Lamb. I keep a house in Leadenhall-market, I am a butcher, and Green-grocer.
Q. Have you or any of your friends had any quarrel with him?
Q. Has he such a character in the world, that you believe he would take a false oath?
Lamb. I know he will say, and do things that are not right; it is hard speaking against a man's oath.
Q. Would you believe him upon his oath?
Lamb. No, I would not; and that from the badness of his character.
Q. Do you know his man?
Lamb. I know very little of him, I never had any conversation with him.
Q. Do you know any thing of these fellows, that make such dunghills in your market?
Lamb. No, I never take notice of them; I have a necessary very near me?
Q. Where do you live?
Rigby. I live in Grace-church-street, he has lived with me six years three quarters; during that time, I never discovered any unnatural inclinations in him; if I had, I should not have kept him in my house; he always behaved well, and is a very sober fellow. I discharged him on the 11th of July last, I do not know that he has been in any service since. I have no sort of suspicion, he was any ways addicted to this vice; all my servants that lived with him, are here to be examined on his behalf
Thomas Clifton . I am head warehouse-man to Mr. Rigby, I have known the prisoner ever since he lived at our house; during which time he behaved himself extremely well; I had no manner of suspicion of him of this kind, he was always amongst the women, when he had any time. I never saw any circumstances, that shewed him inclined to any unnatural vice; I was the person that offered 10 l. or 10 guineas, for his forth-coming, and was before the sitting alderman with him. I remember Mr. Cooper owned he had been in trouble, under misforfortunes; and said, He did not bear the best of characters. There was another person, that offered that sum first, and I afterwards, for his appearing the next morning.
Q. to Leek. Did you go for this evidence?
Leek. I did; my master said to him, Will you give your word for this man's forth-coming tomorrow. Then he began to make some quibbles, and said, The man was not guilty of the fact. Then some people, that were in the watch-house, said, Mr. Cooper, charge him, and then you will be safe.
John Lewis . I have been in Mr. Rigby's service, ever since the prisoner was there; during that time, he behaved as a man that loved women's company. I never saw any thing like any unnatural inclination by him; he seemed to never be easy, but when he was in women's company.
Samuel Bevar . I have known the prisoner four years, I never heard any thing, but what was very good of him; I never look'd upon him in any suspicious way, for having unnatural vices. I look upon him to have a natural passion for women, and none for his own sex. Mr. Cooper's man came to me, about half an hour past 11 o'clock; the asked for Mr. Clifton, I told him he was gone home; I went with him, fearing he should not find out the bell, to call him down; this was on the 28th of July. I went with him to the watch house; in our way there, he told me they had detected one of Mr. Rigby's men, in a very unseemly manner. When I came there, I saw the prisoner; Mr. Cooper very readily knew me; he asked me if I knew Mr. Clifton, I said, I did; upon that, he was for letting the prisoner go, upon his passing his word for his appearing before my lord-mayor, on the morrow; there was a thinish man came up to Mr. Cooper, and said, You will come to no harm by giving charge. I then offered 10 l. for his appearance on the morrow, before my lord-mayor; there was not a word said, but immediately they were hurried out of the watch-house, and away they went; for my part, I had no fear of his appearing.
John Lee . I have known him seven years, I have been in company with him often, I thought him a great admirer of women; I never apprehended him any way inclined to any filthy vice with his own sex. I never was so much surprized in all my life, as when I heard of this; I wished it was in my power to do him service, for I was sure he was innocent of it. I was before Sir Robert Landbroke , who asked Cooper several particular questions. Cooper said he did not chuse to say any more, because he would not have the man suffer upon his account; because the world had been very severe upon him, that he had been in trouble, and did not care to ingage in any more.
Rebecca Timmings . I have known the prisoner nine years, I lived in Mr. Rigby's house all the time he did, he has an extraordinary character, he seemed to have the best regard for women that ever I saw; that decent behaviour to young women in the family, and others that he was acquainted with, I never saw he had any tendency towards his own sex; no, far from it.
Ann Redford . I have known the prisoner be. than two years; during that time, he seemed to be a young man that had a great respect for young women, I never saw to the contrary; he never took any delight, but when with the women whenever he had any time, he never went out, but some of them went with him. I never can, or shall believe he is guilty of the crime laid to his charge; I lived fellow-servant with him in the house.
Martha Trimmings , I have known him between eight and nine years, he always seemed to be a person that had an affection for women, he never liked to spend an evening without women along with him. He never behaved with any effeminacy, that shewed him to have a liking to his own sex; I spent the evening with him, that very night, before he was accused with this.
Elizabeth Newman . I have known him nine years, I lived servant with him at Mr. Vandival's at Greenwich, he bears an extream good character, in every action in life, his character will bear the strictest examination; he behaved always extreamly well, in regards to women; he would be the last person I should have thought guilty of what he is charged with.
Mr. Molbey. I have known the prisoner ever since he lived in my brother Rigbey's service; I never heard but he bore a good character, I never observed any tendency in him to any unnatural vice.
Mary Jones . I have known him between 10 and 11 years, I never heard any ill of him; it is my opinion he loves the company of women a thousand times more than men I never heard a mouth opened against him in my life.
Edward Lee . I lived with Mr. Molbey, I have known the prisoner almost five years, he called upon me the 28th of July, and told me he had got a place, to live in Crutched Fryers, he came between eight and nine, and I parted with him a few minutes before 11, he lodg'd at Mr. Rigby's, this was in his way home. I never observed, he had any inclination towards his own sex, I believe he has a regard for women. I have travelled with him, and laid with him, and never knew him guilty of an indecent action in my life; he always behaved as a man ought to do.
Elizabeth Lee . I am sister to a young woman that has been examined, I have known him about seven years, he lived with Mr. Molbey, he always behaved as one that had an affection to women, so far as I was able to judge.
John Pinkney . I have known him between six and seven years, he behaved as a man that had a regard for women, I always looked upon him as such. I have known him frequently in women's company, when he might have been out of it; he has went a dancing with them, I never in the least suspected him guilty of any indecencies with his own sex.
Thomas Brown . I have known him about six years, I never saw, or knew any thing by him, tending to this kind he is now charged with; I have seen him with his fellow-servants, the woman; his general character was good, as far as ever I heard.
Q. Would you believe him upon his oath?
Ward. Upon my oath I would not?
William Turton . I have not known the prisoner a great while, but I have laid with him; he never offered any indecency to me, nor do I think him capable of it. I have taken a great deal of pains to inquire into his character, it is a good one, and the prosecutor Cooper has a very bad one, I have reason to believe he would take a false oath, I really would not take his oath for a pin, on any account, in any thing he says.
Q. Where do you live?
Turton. I live almost by the Asylum.
Q. Did you ever hear he forswore himself?
John Shackle . I have kno wn the prisoner between six and seven years; during that time, his character has been very good, and upright. I never looked upon him, that he would be guilty of indecencies with his own sex, quite the reverse.
To Cooper's Character.
Thomas Curtise . I am a barber and perriwig-maker, and live in Grocers-alley. I have known Cooper a great many years, the best part of 20. I never heard he had a bad character, or that he behaved amiss. I have laid out a great many pounds with him, he always behaved like a very honest worthy tradesman; to be sure he has had misfortunes in trade, I never heard he behaved amiss, he did know that I was in court.
William Hickling . I have known Cooper 10 years and longer, I have had dealings with him, and never found him any otherwise than just. He is reckoned an honest man, and I belive him to be a very honest man.
Q. Do you think he would forswear himself, in order to charge an innocent men?
Hickling. I do not think he would be guilty of such a thing.
Mr. Atkins. I have arrested Cooper, and taken his word afterwards, and he always took care to make an end of things; he has been at my house more than one, two, or three days, and I have had some worth about me, and I never missed any thing.
Q. Is it customary to take people's words, after you have arrested them?
Atkins. It is, he never gave me no other security than his word; he has said, I will bring such a person, and we will come and make an end of it, and so he has. If I thought he was a bad man, I would not have taken his word.
Q. I suppose he was a man that could not leave his business.
Atkins. He might lock himself up, and six me with the debt. I have this opinion of him, that was I to arrest him for five or 10 l. he would come and pay me.
Q. Do not you know he has been cleared by the Compulsive Clause?
Atkins. Yes, I do.
[He being a foreigner, was tried at his own request, by a jury of half foreigners, and an interpreter was sworn, as he spoke bad English.]
It is read to this purport.
Crawley. This was done in order to take out an action against Mr. Blanchard.
Q. What became of that action?
Q. What was the occasion of his coming to your house first of all?
Blanchard. I let the lodging to Mrs. Tubbs, she took them as a single woman, on her own account. She told my attorney, in my hearing, she was a single woman, and then the prisoner sent a letter to me, in which he mentioned, he would not take any thing of me, if I would let him do something for my lame son, and that if he cured him, it would do him a great deal of honour, and he should be very glad if I would let him try; his servant swore he brought the letter from him to me, before the Grand-jury, but he is since dead, he would be very glad to do it for nothing. Upon his importuning me, I let him try, though he is deemed incurable, but then was under a very noted gentleman's hands, who prescribed for him. Surgeon Groat , had put a poultice upon the child, and at the prisoner's request, I let him take it off; he brought some little thumb bottles, with some yellow grease. His servant said, It was only chickens grease, and some sage leaves boiled in it, to give it a smell. He gave the child no internal medicine at all, only this as an ointment to the part. I cannot charge my memory with how many bottles he brought, but I do not believe there were above three or four, they were small bottles, about as long as my finger.
Q. Had you, or any other of your family, any other medicines of the prisoner?
Blanchard. No, never; and upon my oath, cured, or not cured, there never was any consideration mentioned, for what he was to do for the child. He was got into my house before he undertook it: I had told him the child was look'd upon as incurable.
Q. Do you know the prisoner's hand-writing?
Blanchard. I do, I have seen him write, this letter is his hand-writing. [Producing one.] He sent me several letters, of the same hand-writing.
Mr. Sechard. (He takes the letter in his hand,) I am certain this letter is the prisoner's hand-writing, I have seen him write several times.
(It is read in French; the interpretation of a sentence in it was.)
"Sir, I will charge you nothing for the cure of,
"Sir, your son,
Prisoner. I beg to know if that is my handwriting.
Court. That is proved.
Ann Lewis . The prisoner at the bar told me, he would cure Mr. George Blanchard , for nothing, and that it would be a great honour to his name to do it; it would be an honour to him for ever, if he cured him, and he would have nothing for it.
Q. How came he to tell you this?
A. Lewis. I lived with Mr. Blanchard, I am his wife's sister, he was daily and hourly asking me to ask for him to have the curing of the child; and after all, the child was worse than before, the child had nothing given him by the prisoner inwardly.
Q. Do you know whether the prisoner ever left, or administered any medicines to Mr. Blanchard, or any of his family.
A. Lewis. He never did, only that child; if he had, I must have received them, and seen them, but I never saw any such thing; the child had but two or three phials, not above, to anoint the part.
Mrs. Blanchard. We never had above two or three small bottles of the prisoner for the child, and we never had any other medicine of him, for either my husband, self, or family.
In the first place, the prosecution is carried on maliciously against me; for in the month of May last, Mr. Blanchard was indicted at Hick's-Hall, for perjury, for swearing he was a house-keeper, when upon the parish books he was none. After that, he entered my dwelling-house, took possession of my goods, and turned me out, and took a watch, which cost me 120 guineas. I de-desire the court will ask Mr. Blanchard, if I never did arrest him, and if this note is not against him. I had two letters from Mr. Blanchard, signed with his own hand, where he said, if I would undertake to cure his son, upon his honour, he would pay me with honour; but they have broke the house open, and those letters are taken away.
Q. to Blanchard. Did you ever write any letters to the prisoner, to the purport he has mentioned?
Q. from Prisoner. Whether when Mr. Blanchard, and eight more, took possession of my goods, they did not also of my writings?
Blanchard. The prisoner was turned out of my house, at two different times, by Mr. Tubbs's husband; he came and claimed her as his wife. At first, she denied her husband, and afterwards, she owned him. The prisoner has prosecuted me and my family, almost to death.
For the Prisoner.
Q. Did you see it wrote?
F. Barkham. No, I did not.
Blanchard. I signed this note.
It is read to this purport.
Mr. Blanchard doth consent, and agree to pay Thomas Lee , 1 l. 15 s. after the rate of 2 s. 6 d. per week, to be paid weekly, from the date hereof, on condition of the said Thomas Lee appearing as a witness against Urvoy, at the Sessions-house, in the Old-Bailey.
Sept. 7, 1761.
Blanchard. This Thomas Lee said he would take Urvoy, and spend money and time after him. I was told, and I thought in myself, I ought to give him something. I went to him, and said, Thomas, what is your demand? He said, 35 s. said my friend, how do you desire to be paid, he said, At half a crown a week? I agreed to it, and gave him this note, and at the same time, I said to him, Thomas, I do not give you this by way of bribe, but for what you have laid out, and done for me.
Counsel. The prisoner was at last taken at Greenwich, after two months search after him.
Blanchard. There was an Habeas-corpus brought to remove him from the Fleet-prison, and he got away; and there was a great difficulty in taking him again.
Q. to F. Barkham. Had you any conversation with Lee, and Mr. Blanchard, about this note?
F. Barkham. I had.
Q. From that conversation, and your own understanding of the matter, do you believe this note was given to Lee, in order that he should swear falsely?
F. Barkham. No, I do not believe it was given him with any such intent.
Q. To whom?
M. Tubbs. To Mr. Blanchard, to Mrs. Blanchard, and to both the sons, the lame one, and the other.
Q. For what length of time?
M. Tubbs. For near four months, the first four months I was in the house.
Q. What every day?
M. Tubbs. Not every day; but as soon as one bottle was out, they would come for another. I have given a great deal out of my own hands; sometimes to Mr. Blanchard, sometimes to Mrs. Blanchard, and sometimes to the two sons, for the first four months we were in the house.
Q. When did you first come into the house?
M. Tubbs. I think we first came into the house about the 10th, 12th, or 13th of June, not last June, but the June before; it was pretty near, or I believe, full four months together.
Q. How came you to deliver out the medicines?
M. Tubbs. Because I had the keys, and when the doctor was out, I used to deliver them out; I lived in the house with him.
Q. Did he attend them as a physician?
M. Tubbs. He used to go down stairs, and order Mrs. Blanchard to have a bath for the son, the doctor lived in the house at the same time. I remember him attending the son, night and day, every day. I heard a good deal of this lame young man, it was in his hip.
Q. Have not you heard Mr. Blanchard, or any of the family say, that Urvoy would attend him for nothing, only for the honour of curing.
M. Tubbs. No, I never did; Mr. Urvoy used to complain to Mr. Blanchard, that Mrs. Blanchard did not do as he had ordered; he used to say, you know Mrs. Blanchard drinks; Mr. Blanchard would say, never mind it, I shall pay you; - I have heard Mr. Blanchard say that often.
Q. Was you to give medicines to the lame boy, or to the family?
Q. Who was in that house first, Urvoy, or you?
M. Tubbs. I was in the house just the same time he was.
Q. Did you live with him any where else?
M. Tubbs. I lived with him in Bream's-buildings, before we came there.
Q. How long did you live with him there?
M. Tubbs. I believe a year, or a year and a quarter; or a year and a half.
Q. When you took this house of Mr. Blanchard's, did you take it as a single woman?
M. Tubbs. I took it as a widow.
Q. Are you a widow?
M. Tubbs. I find I am not now; I had not heard from my husband for 10 years. Mr. Blanchard knew the lodgings were for Mr. Urvoy, and not for me; the agreement was made in my name.
Q. Did you not live there as Urvoy's wife?
M. Tubbs. No, I did not.
Q. Did not you go by his name?
M. Tubbs. No.
Q. Did not you pass for his wife in Bream's-buildings?
M. Tubbs. If people were pleased to call me so, I was not oblig'd to contradict them.
Q. How long did Mr. Urvoy attend the child?
M. Tubbs. For the first four months, he attended him night and morning. Mrs. Blanchard was to get fresh herbs; but she used to put the money in her pocket, and made use of stale herbs. I have seen people come down stairs with Mr. Urvoy's medicines in their hands; I used to see them in the bottles.
Q. Did you ever mention that to Mr. Blanchard?
M. Tubbs. No.
Q. Nor to his wife?
M. Tubbs. No.
M. Tubbs. No, I was not company for her.
Q. Who did you deliver them to?
M. Tubbs. To Mr. and Mrs. Blanchard, and the two sons.
M. Tubbs. No, she was in the Kitchen, and they were given out of a closet in the hall; they were given out forty times; she had no business in the hall, that belongs to Mr. Urvoy's apartment; she had enough to do to drink with her sister, without being up in the hall; I have often seen them bottles carried out, in order to purchase liquor.
Q. How came you not to tell this to Mr. Blanchard, when they came for more?
M. Tubbs. That was Mr. Urvoy's business to do as he pleased; he did stop his hand.
Q. to Mr. Blanchard. Is this true this evidence has mentioned?
Mr. Blanchard. It is false my upon oath, as God is my judge, as far as I know.
Q. Did Mr. Urvoy attend night and morning to see your child dipped four months together.
Blanchard. He did not, I believe, for a week, we did it ourselves; he would come in, and say, Have you got the tub and things ready?
Q. Did you take any thing of him for any of your family besides this child?
Blanchard. No, we did not; we had nothing of him but the bottles of grease; I believe one of them was delivered into my hand.
Q. Did you desire him to deliver the bottles, and you would pay him?
Blanchard. I know nothing of that.
Q. Did you have any thing of the prisoner for your other son?
Blanchard. He was not ill, so as to take any medicines; and if he had, I knew better than to take any thing of the prisoner's preparing; I believe I know better what to do in such cases, than he does; I never asked him for any thing.
A. Lewis. I lived in the house four months; during the time I was there, I never knew Mr. or Mrs. Blanchard, or the two children, apply to Urvoy, for any physick to take, or ever heard of their taking any of his medicines, only them bottles before mentioned.
Q. Did you ever know of Mrs. Blanchard's having any bottles of physick of Mrs. Tubbs, which she sold again for spirituous liquors.
A. Lewis. No, never, she never sold none; there was never none to sell.
Q. If these medicines had been delivered forty times, should you have seen them?
A. Lewis. Certainly I should have known of the delivery of them.
Q. Did Urvoy attend night and morning for the first four months?
The jury gave no credit to Tubbs's evidence, and she was committed to Newgate for perjury.
Elizabeth Dell . I unfortunately got into company with thi s man at the bar, and he got me to live with him. I had not been with him but a few days, but he was desirous of my goods being sold. I sold them for five guineas, and he had the money of me. Then he said, he would go to Whitehaven, and I should go along with him. I was desirous to be married before we went away. He said, if we were married, our marriage would not stand good where we were going, and he could be married for a crown there; and that money would help to keep us on the road. I agreed to go along with him, and we went to Hempsted in Hertfordshire. I had some money due to me there, that was owing to my husband. The prisoner and I went there. The gentleman said he did not greatly like the prisoner, and he thought the money ought to be for my child; and he did not chuse to part with it, without seeing some of my friends; so he paid me but a guinea. Then the prisoner would come to London again; and he took a lodging for me in Billiter-lane. There I was tired of living with him in that manner; I had very bad usage from him in beating me. If I went into company along with him, if a man did but look at me, he would make me, when I came home, take a book and swear whether I knew the man or not.
Q. What have you to say concerning a gold ring?
E. Dell, He asked me to look at it once when we were at a publick-house in Holbourn; he said, there is a posey in it. He took it, and made as if he could not read it; it was dark. He got up, and went to the door; there is a silversmith lives at the corner; he went, and had it stretched, and came in with it on his finger. I wanted my ring; he would not give it me.
Another time I went into a publick-house to ask him, if he was coming home. He said, come in, and sit down a bit. I stopped, and in came a man with the ring in his mouth; he took it out of his mouth. and gave it to the prisoner backhanded. I saw the prisoner slip it on his finger. I said, Will, what have you been doing with my ring? Said he, I have been putting your name upon it. I said no more to him then. When we came out there, I still wanted my ring. He had silver-buckles in his shoes; and I thought that ring would better become me; and as it was my husband's mother's wedding ring, which he desired before he died. I never would part with; he would not give it me then, but when we were in Billiter-lane, one day when he was washing his hands, I saw it lying by him, took it up, and put it on my finger. He wanted it of me again. No, said I, you asked me to let you look at it; but now I have got it, I will keep it. He had got engraved in it W. D, He swore by G - d he would have it. I said, I would lose my life before I would part with it. Then he said he would leave me; I said do, for I shall be glad of that. He took his stick in his hand, and went down stairs. He asked my landlady if I owed her any thing; she said, no. Then he said I think it is time to go. He went out and came in again; I was below-stairs with my landlady; she said, now girl he is come in again, with a resolution to have the ring from you. He called me up-stairs; I did not go. He came down to call me, and my landlady would have had me left the ring with her. I would not, but said I would keep it on my my finger, and lose my life rather than part with it. I went up-stairs; he said, give me the ring? I sat down on the foot of the bed to blow the fire; he came to the bed side laughing, and said, will you give me the ring? I said I would not. He flung me on the bed, and put both his legs over me, and bent my arm back. I cried out, Will, you will break my arm. Said he, I do not care if I do; will you give me the ring? I said, no. He said, will you give me leave to take it? I said, no, I would lose my life first. He wet my finger, and brought it to the middle joint, took the ring in his mouth, and drawed it off my finger.
Q. Had he a wife?
E. Dell. He had another woman; I believe he gave part of the money my goods sold for to that woman. [The ring produced in court.] This is the ring; it is my property.
Q. What are you?
Jefferys. I am the prosecutrix's uncle; after we had apprehended him, as we were coming along, he put the ring into her hand.
Q. What did he say at the time?
Jefferys. I did not hear him say any thing at all.
Q from Prisoner. Was it before the officer had served the warrant, or not?
Jefferys. The warrant was there, but not in a proper officer's hand.
The prisoner in his defence acknowledged he had debauched the prosecutrix, and received part of the money the goods were sold for; and likewise, that he did take the ring from her finger in the manner she mentioned.
For the Prisoner.
Q. Has he a wife?
S. Lockwood. He has, and two children.
Robert Gardner . The prisoner at the bar, and the prosecutrix, came into a publick-house where I was; he asked me to put W. D. into a ring; I told him it was not my business, but I could get it done, which I did; this is the ring here produced.
George White . I was at Mr. Fisher's, a publick-house in Bull-and-mouth street; the prisoner and that young woman came in. I asked the prisoner if he was married; he said, yes, and she said nothing to the contrary.
321. (L) Mary Kitching , and Elizabeth Alexander , spinsters , were indicted for feloniously making an assault on James Jennings , jun . and putting him in corporal fear and danger of his life, and taking from his person 9 s. in money numbered, and against his will, in the dwelling-house of Nicholas Longman , Oct. 7 .~
James Fennings , jun. I was coming down Whitechapel, on the 7th of this instant, about nine at night; I stopped to make water, and the two prisoners at the bar met me. They spoke to me; I made them no answer; but crossed the way, in order to avoid them.
Q. Did you know them before?
Jennings, jun. I never saw them before, but I know them very well. I went along on the butchers-side the way. They followed me Coming by the corner of Harrow-alley, they pulled me down the alley by force, by my arms, and said I should go along with them; one was before me, and the other behind, and they brought me to the stairs of a room, and pushed me up; I fell down all along upon the stairs, and would not go up; the stairs open into the alley.
Q. How far down the alley to the stairs?
Jennings, Jun. Seven or eight yards. I set my foot against the stairs, but they would not let me go, but pushed me by force up, and shut the door; and Kitching said D - n you, I have got you now. She husled me about very much, and wanted me to go to bed. I would not. She asked me if I had any money. I said I had none for her. She pushed me up into a corner of the room, and searched all my pockets. When she came to my righthand pocket, she took out 9 s. I told her she should not have it. She swore she would; and when I asked her for it, she said I might go and be d - d, for she had none of my money. With that I made a great noise. Then Alexander run away. Kitching bid me go down stairs about my business. I would not. She was goin to shut the room-door. I went down stairs; there were two buchers boys with candles and lanthorns. I told them two women had forced me up-stairs, and taken my money away; and one of them was gone. They went up, and asked Kitching to give me my money again. She said she had none. The constable hearing the noise came up-stairs; she at first told him I gave her the money, and then said she had none of my money. I charged him with her; he brought her into a publick-house, where she owned the had taken it from me, and told it down on the table, and the constable would not take it up. She took it up again, and I never had it. The constable sent her to the watch-house. She was after that taken before an alderman at Guildhall. The constable told the alderman she offered me the money again. After that Alexander was taken, and brought to the Mansion-house; there she said she got her living by needlework.
Q. Did she own that she was in the room at the time?
Jennings, jun. I do not know that she did.
Q. Was you sober?
Jennings, Jun. I was.
Q. How old are you?
Q. What did Alexander do while Kitching took your money out of your pocket?
Jennings, jun. I was so affrighted I do not know justly; I believe she was near me; they had locked the door, and taken the key out.
Q. Are you sure Alexander was in the room when the other took your money?
Jennings, jun. I cannot be positive; I cried sadly, and was much frightened.
Q. Where do you live?
Jennings, jun. I live at Leadenhall-market with my father, a poulterer; I was coming home from Whitechapel.
Q. Did you see any body in the alley?
Jennings, jun. No, I did not.
James Jennings , sen. I am father to the young man; I was before Alderman Cokayne, when Alexander was there. She there owned Kitching took the money, and she lighted the candle to her at the time; but denied having any hand in it, only holding the candle. She said she came there by chance.
John Buckley . I am a constable; on the 7th of October, about half an hour past nine, I was asleep in a box in my own house; I was awaked, and was told there was a great uproar, fat Moll, (that is Kitching) had beat a boy in Nicholas Longman 's room. I went up, there was the young lad, Kitching, a butcher's apprentice, and a tallow-chandler's servant; I asked what was the matter? The boy was almost crying; he said, he had been robbed of 9 s. and 3 d. halfpenny, and the 3 d. halfpenny she had returned. I did not at first tell him I was a constable, 'till I heard what he said. Said he, I wish I could get a constable. Are you sure, said I, this woman has robbed you? Yes, said he. Then I said, I am a constable. He immediately gave charge of her; I took her to my house, and sent for three or four watchmen, and sent her to the watch-house. When she found she must go, though she had denied taking the money before, she began to pull the money, and said, What am I to have for slogging of him? After that I took Alexander; she before the alderman said, She unfortunately light the candle to Mary Kitching , but did not say for what; she said it was to guide her up-stairs, but she did not touch the boy.
Mary Huntley . I live in the room under the chamber were the robbery was done; I came home to go to bed, between eight and nine at night; I presently heard a great noise over my head; I heard a strange husling upon the stairs a long time; at last I heard them in the room, and the door shut. I then soon heard the boy cry out. he was robbed. I got out of my bed, put on my gown, and came to the door; then the constable and others were up in the room, and had got Kitching. This was the room of Nicholas Longman ; I have often seen the fat prisoner there, named Kitching.
Q. to Prosecutor. Did you lose any halfpence?
Prosecutor. I did not think to mention them, because she gave me them again; and she laid down the other money, but the constable would would not let me take it, but said I must go before my lord mayor.
I had been out with a peck of oysters, and was going home; this young man followed us both up the alley; I asked him what he wanted? I was going to Nicholas Longman 's room; he being an old acquaintance of my husband's and mine; the door was left open. When I saw the young man behind me, I desired him to go down stairs again. As to his money, I never saw a halfpenny of it. He asked me if I would oblige him. I said I would not in any thing, and bid him go about his business.
This young man came up to us; she asked me to go along with her, and we went all three together.
Kitching guilty of felony , Alexander acquitted .
Received sentence of Death 4.
Received Sentence of Transportation for seven years 19.
Mary Crouch , otherwise Crochifer, Sarah Smith , Mary Hughes , Francisco Moll , Hugh Moneypenny , Edward Bartlam , James Adams , Thomas Green, Mary Kitching , William Dondell , George Scrivener, George James , Francis Gendrier , Richard Watkins , Rachael Anderson , Thomas Wisely , Eleanor Griffiths , Thomas Quin , and Anne Collins , otherwise Clark.
To be whipped 2.
Urvoy stood on the pillory near the Session's-beusegate in the Old Bailey, on Thursday the 29th of October; and Bailey stood on the pillory near the Cross-key-inn in Bishopsgate street, on Wednesday the 4th of November.
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