Printed, and sold by G. KEARSLY (Successor to the late Mr. Robinson) at the Golden-Lion, in Ludgate-Street, 1760.
King's Commissions of the Peace, and Oyer and Terminer, for the City of LONDON, and at the General Sessions of Gaol Delivery for Newgate, holden for the City of LONDON, and County of MIDDLESEX, at Justice-Hall in the Old-Bailey, &c.
BEFORE the Right Honourable Sir THOMAS CHITTY , Knt. Lord Mayor of the City of London; Lord Chief Baron PARKER,* Mr. Justice BATHURST, + Mr. Justice WILMOT, || Sir WILLIAM MORETON , Knt. Recorder; ++ and others of His Majesty's Justices of Oyer and Terminer for the said City.
N. B. The Characters * + || ++ direct to the Judge by whom the prisoner was tried; also (L. and M.) by what Jury.
Q. Was the prisoner your servant?
Commins. She was a chairwoman at my house.
Q. How long had she been chairwoman at your house?
Commins. Not above a week. I had lived there 3 months or better; on the 15th of June last I lost a silver mugg, and miss'd her at the same time from my house.
Q. When had you seen it last?
Q. Had the prisoner used to lie in your house?
Commins. She lay with the maid; the prisoner came in about 20 minutes after: I accused her with taking it; she denied it; I took her into a private room, and sent for a constable, and then to the Roundhouse; a gentleman named Turner, went to our other house (we kept two houses) and he carried the mugg to my husband.
Mr. Turner. I keep the Crown and Cusheon, Russel street, Covent Garden (a public house) the prisoner used to come to my house sometimes for a pint of beer; she came on the 15th of June, at near 12 o'clock, and had a pint of beer, paid me for it, and desired to leave this silver mugg with me (producing one) I asked her no questions, haveing no body at home but myself to attend my house, and being busy with my customers. She not coming again for it, as she proposed, I look'd at it, and found the name Matthews, at the Angel and Crown St. Martin's lane, that was Mrs. Commins's former husband's name. I sent immediately to St. Martin's lane; Mr. Commins came and own'd the mugg; then we went to their other house near Drury lane. Mrs. Commins had sent the prisoner to the Roundhouse.
Turn. She did say something of a servant maid, but the words I did not take particular notice of, being busy; she said, she would soon call again for it.
On the Saturday night, the maid told me, her Mistress would not let her in, and they had had a dispute; but she said she would be even with her, she got a large glass of Brandy for me, when she was washing the pots; I was shelling of pease; she call'd me. and said, take this pint mugg, and carry it abroad, till I call for it; I took it, and carried it to Mr. Turner's house.
211. (M.) Bridget Callahan , spinster , was indicted for stealing one yard of blond lace, value 1 s. one necklace of French beads, value 6 d. one yard of ribbon, value 3 d. one muslin apron, value 6 d. one pair of gown sleeves, value 6 d. 2 silk gown linings, and one linnen shift , the property of Ann Parnell , June 2 . ||
Q. How long had she lived with you?
A. Parnell. She came to me about Michaelmas; I lost the things mentioned in the indictment, I miss'd them at different times.
Q. When did you miss the first?
A. Parnell. I believe that was in January, she went from me to another place, and her mistress that she lived with came to me, and told me the prisoner had some of my things, but I do not know that she took them.
Q. Did the prisoner own to any thing?
A. Parnell. No.
Q. Have you got your things again?
A. Parnell. No.
John Norbury . I live in Hoxton Market place; I am a weaver, and work for Mr. John Pattersgale ; he lives in Friday street in the City, I hired the prisoner out of Spittle fields market, at 3 s. per week, on the 3d of June last, to work in my house, at winding of silk; she came to live with me the same day, and lived with me 5 days, the silk was Mr. Pattersgale's silk, but in my care; I miss'd some silk when I carried it home, and I thought to catch her, if possible, I weighed 2 empty bobbins, and also some silk which she was to wind upon them bobbins; this was on the 7th of June; she took the silk at the usual place; when she had done it i weighed it again, and I ought to have had 12 ounces, and 6 drams, and there were an ounce and 7 drams missing. I charged her with taking part of the silk; she confessed she had sold it to one John Cornelius , a man we have had suspicion on in the trade some time, but we cannot take him.
Court. We should be glad to see that man here.
Magdalen Sturt. I heard the prisoner own she had sold the silk to Cornelius, this was before the Justice.
I hope the court will take it into consideration, I never did such a thing before, and Mr. Cornelius persuaded me to do it.
Guilty, 10 d.
213. (M.) Mary, wife of - Priswell , was indicted, for that she on the 18th of June , did unlawfully, knowingly and designedly, by false pretences, obtain from John Charlton one quarter of a pound of green tea, value 2 s. and one quarter of a pound of bohea tea, value 18 d. the goods, wares and merchandise of the said John, with intent to cheat and defraud the said John against the peace of our Lord the King, his crown and dignity.
To which she pleaded, Guilty
214. (L.) Frances Newcome , spinster , was indicted for stealing 2 yards and half of white linnen thread lace, value 2 s. 8 d. 2 yards of other thread lace, one yard of other thread lace, one yard and a quarter of other thread lace, 2 yards of other lace, 2 yards and a quarter of other lace, one yard of silk lace, 9 yards of ribbon, 2 yards of black sattin ribbon ; the goods ofEmm Scott , Theodotia Hathway , and Mary Cove , June 4 ++
Emm Scott. I am a milliner .
Q. Have you any partners?
Q. Have you heard the indictment read?
E. Scott. We have; I lost the things mentioned; the prisoner was our servant , she had lived with us 5 weeks all but one day; she was going away. I having miss'd some things, ask'd her about them; she denied knowing any thing of them; I had her box serached, and the things mentioned in the indictment were found in it; then she owned them to be our property (produced in court, and deposed too)
Q. What character had you with her?
E. Scott. I had a very good character with her, or else I had not taken her.
John Newcombe . Mrs. Cove, one of the partners came to me and told me, the prisoner had robb'd her, and desired I would go with her to tax the maid with it. I went with her, and spoke to the prisoner. She denied having any thing but what was her own. I told her, she had better own it, for they were certain that she had robb'd them, and it might be the better for her; she still denied it; I said there is the constable below stairs, and we must search. Then she said, she would go up and open her box, and cry'd. She opened the box, and in it were found these goods mentioned. We took her before Mr. Alderman Cartwright (produced in court, and deposed too)
The prisoner said nothing in her defence.
For the prisoner.
Q. What are you?
Kirby. I am a callender.
Q. What sort of a character has the prisoner?
Kirby. The best of characters; I have been once asked at the church to her, and I will marry her to-morrow if the gentlemen will take it into consideration, and clear her.
Guilty. Recommended .
215. (M.) Mary Chesterfield , spinster , was indicted for stealing one blanket, value 1 s. one linnen sheet, value 11 d. one mahogany spoon, the property of Robert Carey , in a certain lodging room let by contract , &c. June 1 . ++
Guilty, 10 d.
Obadiah Wright. The prisoner was my servant , I deal in stockings . On the Saturday before the 2d of June, when I came down in the morning, some things were missing in the shop; I concluded they must be taken by somebody in the shop; the prisoner had been backwards and forwards with me for 16 years; I always before look'd upon him to be a very honest man: my son said he suspected him; I said, then we will soon catch him; we put 19 pair of silk stockings upon a shelf, and when the prisoner came to work, my son gave them to the prisoner to finish them. When night came, the prisoner took his hat, and was going away, I told the stockings, and miss'd a pair; my son call'd him back, and told him there was a pair missing; I bid him pull off his coat, he did, and in the lining of it I found one of the stockings put in at a hole at the back of the coat. Then he said he had lost the fellow to it, and he had put it there fearing I should be angry. Then in searching farther, one Richard Slaughter found the fellow stocking on him. Then I took him before justice Welch; he said it was the first time he ever had done so.
Rich. Slaughter. Mr. Wright told me he had lost stockings several times, and he suspected the prisoner, and told me he had got a pair then. When he was gone out they call'd him back; they charg'd him with taking a pair. I said,
I do not deny but I had one of the stockings, but I know nothing of the other; I should have cut off the tops of them, and brought them again, if I had found them in my pocket. I have been 21 years in the King's service, and have people here to my character.
For the prisoner.
James Evans . I have been in the company that the prisoner belongs to about 17 years; the prisoner was a folder in it when I inlisted; I was abroad with him the last war, I never heard a word of ill of him in my life.
Eliz. Roberts. My husband's name is Fra. Roberts; the prisoner came to my house the 13th of June last, to sell me a pair of shoes. I had occasion to go out to sell things in the street. I came home at 10 o'clock, and was getting supper; she came in again, and ask'd me to buy a handkerchief of her; she said she had a sick husband, and a child out at nurse. I said I would not buy it. I stripp'd my children to wash their little things; she said, she wou'd stay and help me; I then said, I wou'd give her 2 d. an hour. She took the childrens two cotton gowns, a bonnet, a pair of old stays, a blue and white cheque apron, and a copper saucepan, and went away with them. I found the stays in her lodgings, and found her drinking in an alehouse with my bonnet by her; ( pro duc'd in court, and depos'd to) I never found the other things.
Q. When did you find them again?
E. Roberts. The day after I lost them.
I bought these stays in Rag fair for 9 d. I was quite in liquor; as to any thing else, I know nothing at all of it.
218. (M.) John Wright , was indicted for stealing one brown and white sattin gown, value 5 s. two crape gowns, value 5 s. one black silk cardinal, value 5 s. and 2 linen aprons , the property of John Fitzhew , Jan. 1 . +
Q. Where was they taken from?
Fitzhew. From out of my lodging room, they were my wife's things; the prisoner lodg'd in the same house; he elop'd on the 10th of Jan. After he was taken, I took him before justice Welch; there he said John Bristow gave them to him. I did not find them till Monday last.
Sam Slayter . I am a pawnbroker; on the 31st of Dec. the prisoner came and pawn'd this gown and cardinal to me (producing them) in the name of John Bristow , and said that was his own name, and said, he lived in the Broad way, Black Fryers.
Prosecutor. I cannot find the other things, those he produced are my property.
The prosecutor brought me from a sick bed in the workhouse; and would have made it up with me for 12 s. last Monday.
Q. to prosecutor. Did you make him any such proposal?
Prosecutor. I was loth to take away his life; and I did say, if I could have that money paid, I would not meddle with him.
Mary Currel . I miss'd my sheets, and took the prisoner up upon suspicion; they were let with her with a lodging room, almost half a year ago; I took her up, and charged her with it; she confess'd it, and they were found at 2 pawnbrokers that are here.
When I pawn'd the first sheet, having no work to do, my landlady knew of it, and said she would forgive me on my fetching it out again, I did not quit the room, but intended to fetch them out again.
Prosecutrix. I found it out after it was pawn'd, but not before, neither did I give her liberty.
Guilty, 10 d.
Price Swancott. The prisoner was imployed to do bussiness for my wife. On the 14th of June I miss'd a blew waistcoat and shirt; I had intelligence she was in the round house for a quarrel; I went there, and asked her if she knew any thing of my waistcoat and shirt; she said she had pawn'd them, the waistcoat to Mr. Pell, the shirt in Russel street Covent Garden. I went and found them accordingly; I had known her a great many years, and never knew her to do the like before; she always bore a good character before.
Q. Do you take things of people in liquor?
I was at work at the prosecutor's house; there came in a young man, and I suppose he took these things, and went to an alehouse in St. Martin's lane, and desired me to come to him, I did, he desired me to pawn the things for him; I went and pawn'd them for him; since I have been taken up, he has made off.
For the Prisoner.
Prosecutor. I would have trusted her with a thousand pounds; she has had an opportunity in my house to have taken things of value had she been so minded; I remember she was a little in liquor the last time she was at our house. Whether she took the things, or any body else, I know not.
221. (M.) William Davis , was indicted; for that he, on the King's highway, on John Copeland , did make an assault, putting him in corporal fear and danger of his life, and stealing from his person 4 pair of worsted stockings, value 5 s. and 2 pair of cotton stockings, value 3 s. the property of Robert Copeland , July 9 . ++
Robert Copeland . I keep a stocking shop , at the corner of Prince's street, near the Haymarket. I have a sister lives at Islington; she sent to me for me to send up some stockings for a neighbour's child of her's; I sent 6 pair by my 2 children, they having frequently gone that walk. (The 2 children were, in court.)
Q. How old are they?
Copeland. The girl is upwards of 8 years old, and the boy turn'd of 6 years old; I sent them out of my house about a quarter of an hour after 11 on Wednesday last; the other witnesses can inform the court better.
Robert Crump . On Wednesday last, between the hours of 12 and one, I was coming from the White Conduit, by Islington ; there is a large pond wall'd in, on the west side of that wall I met the prisoner at the bar, and this little boy; the boy had a parcel under his arm, and the little girl was about 20 yards behind them; the parcel was tied up in brown paper; the little girl called, and said Jackey, that is not the way; the boy answered, this will take me into the new road; the prisoner said come, I'll show you the road; I was coming to London I came about half way down the next field, and seeing something bubbling in the water, I stopp'd by the pond side; while I was standing, I heard a noise, and soon distinguished it to be the crying of children; I look'd back, and at first saw nobody; presently I saw the prisoner come running under the wall, where I first met him; he came towards me; at the end of the wall he jump'd over the rails into the field where I was, and run down the grass, making towards Sadlers Wells. Then I heard the cry of the children, increased my suspicion; when he was as near me as he chose to come. I said, Hollow, you sir, you have robb'd the children, very loud; he turned short from me; I pursued him; he made up to the wall of the reservoir, to the fouth part of it: I kept so that he should not get to London. I said, Hollow, I shall have you; when he came to the wall he put his hand under his coat, and pull'd out this bundle (producing a bundle in paper) and went to throw it over the wall into the water, it hit against the wall, and fell back again; then he took it up again, and throwed it over, where it was found: then I was convinced he had robb'd the children, and I call'd out stop thief. I pursued him to the corner of the now road. Mr. King was amongst his sheep, he came to my assistance, and we secured him; and the children came and said, that man (pointing to him) had robb'd them. We took him to Hicks's Hall, there justice Wright committed him.
Prosecutor. These are the same stockings which I sent in a bundle by my children, that day.
Henry King . I was in the field, I saw Mr. Crump pursuing the prisoner. I saw him sling the bundle over the wall, and heard Mr. Crump say, I shall have you presently; I went to his assistance, and we secured the prisoner.
I overtook the girl about 30 yards behind the boy; at last I overtook the boy; he asked me, if that was the way to the new road. I said, I will show you the way, it is straight forward; I went into the field in order to ease myself, and saw him run back to his sister; when I had done I got up, and went, and made the best of my way to where I was going, which was to Noble street, by Goswell street. I found this bundle in the grass I took it up, I did not know any thing about it, presently I heard the sound of crying; I made the best of my way to that gentleman, Mr. Crump; he turned and made towards me; said he what are you. what have you got there? as I understood. I said, nothing of your's, nor no body's else, as I know of; said he I'll have you; so with that I made an attempt to throw the parcel over the wall, it fell down, I took it up again, and throw'd it over.
Guilty of the larceny only .
Rob Austin . I am a taylor ; the prisoner came and took a ready furnished lodging of me on the 6th of August, and staid but one week; there were 3 of my wife's gowns in a drawer in the room she had taken; the drawer was lock'd, and not let to her with the lodging. After she was gone the gowns were missing, and the drawer left open, and a bunch of keys on the bed, which would open many locks.
Mrs. Austin. These 3 gowns ( producing them) are my property, they were taken out of a drawer in the room that the prisoner had hired.
Q. to R. Austin. Where were these gowns found again?
R. Austin. I had them from the overseers of the parish of St. Clements.
Q. Where do you live?
R. Austin. I live in Doctors Commons.
Jos Burnthwite . The prisoner was past to our parish St. Clements from, I think, Shropshire, by the name of Varthe, last year; I was then overseer, she was deliver'd to us by a vagrant pass. She told my partner and I she belong'd to a very great family, that she had a brother that had an estate of five hundred Pounds a year, a counseller, and that she had a great many very good
My husband was taken up about some goods said to be stolen, and he show'd the pieces belonging to my gown to prove them mine, and the prosecutor kept them, so she went to the parish officers, and described them, they are my own gowns.
223. (M.) Catherine Messenger , spinster , was indicted for stealing one guinea and a half, and 6 s. in money, numbered, the property of Daniel Dixon , from his person, privately and secretly , June 28 . ++
Q. Was you sober?
Dixon. I was, as sober as I am now; the prisoner came and awaked me, and said my friend was gone, and took me by my arm; I said, what business have you with me, if he is gone? she said, he wants you at the bottom of the street.
Q. Had you been in company with her;
Dixon. No, not at all, only I saw her in the house; she held me fast by the arm, I wanted to get my arm from her; I observed she wanted to get me out of the house. I said again, what business have you with me? I felt in my pocket, and miss'd my money.
Q. Had you your money in your pocket when you laid your head down to sleep?
Dixon. I had; it was a guinea and half, and some silver: I said to her give me my money, or I will tear your arm off She immediately gave me a guinea, and said that was all she had; I found this piece of metal in my pocket, which I knew nothing of before (Producing a counter)
Q. Did the prisoner set down by you?
Dixon. No; not except she did when I was asleep. I can't sware who took the money out of my pocket.
224. (M.) Susanna Cottell , and Samuel, her husband, were indicted, the first for stealing 20 yards of silk, call'd corded tabby, value 8 l. the goods of Miles Mason , Benj Lucas , and John Williams , and the second for receiving the same, well knowing them to have been stolen , May 16 . ++
Benj. Lucas. On the 16th of May I lost a piece of green corded tabby out of our shop, 20 yards and a quarter of it.
Q. Have you any partners?
Lucas. I have, Miles Mason and John Williams , we are mercers , and live in Catherine street ; I had often lost things, and I never could fix them on any body. I advertis'd this at 20 guineas reward on the conviction of the person that stole it. The day after the advertisement, Mr. Pell, a pawnbroker, came and brought 4 yards of corded tabby; I could not be certain to it, the mark being cut off, and it was cut into small pieces. I sent for my weaver from Spittle fields, who weav'd it, he brought the fellow piece to that I lost; the 4 yards tally'd with that. There were brought 2 yards the next day, which were pawn'd to Mr. Gunston, a pawnbroker, the very same sort. Mr. Pell told me, he knew the person particularly well that pawn'd the 4 yards to him. I apply'd to Justice Fielding for a warrant to take him up. It happen'd, he came again to Mr. Pell on the 30th of May to take a coat out of pawn, and he secur'd him; his name was Bradford. We detain'd him till we got the man at the bar; he was taken at the black horse in Bedford bury; we went in at the red lion in Russel street in a back room; he wanted to tell me something privately. I said to the constable, go and call for something at the bar; then the prisoner told me he was very unhappy
Q. Whether you made the man at the bar any promises?
Lucas. I told him, if he was innocent, if he would make any discovery if he knew the person, he should go home about his business directly.
John Pill . I am a pawnbroker; on the 16th of May, about 6 in the afternoon, I took 4 yards of silk in pawn of a man, named John Bradford (produced in court) when we were going before Mr. Fielding, the woman at the bar desired I would speak to Mr. Lucas to be favourable to her; and declared to me in what manner she took the piece. She said, she went into the shop, and ask'd if they sold printed linnen; the answer was given, they did not deal in linnen, but only silks and stuffs; and in coming out of the shop she saw this piece of silk lying; she put it under her cardinal, and carried it home, and gave it to her husband. Mr. Fielding not being at home, we carried her to Mr. Sydenham; she confessed the very same there.
Q. Were there any promises made to her?
Pell. No, none.
Prosecutor. I cannot sware to it, that is impossible, but it is of the same sort as I lost.
Gunston. I heard the woman at the bar confess at the Blakeney's head in Bow street, that she went into Mr. Lucas's shop, and asked if they sold linnen; and they said no; and she saw this rowl of silk, and she took it and carried it, and gave it her husband.
Prosecutor. It is the same as mine, but I cannot sware positively to it.
Abraham. I found this 6 yards of silk (producing it) up the prisoners chimney in that lodging room.
James Lamater . He looks at the pieces of and produc'd some other silk; this I cut from the same piece which I sold to the prosecutors; to the best of my knowledge, I believe, upon comparing them, that these pieces are of the same; I sware I believe it to be the same I sold him.
I know nothing at all of it.
I bought them goods of a gentleman, I do not know where he is now; the prosecutor promis'd me, if I would confess I should not be bought before the face of a justice.
For the prisoners.
Mrs. Sturt. I have known the prisoners many years; they kept a house 10 or 12 years ago when I knew them at Bristol; he is a Perriwig maker; about 4 months ago they came to my house in the Strand; they told me they were in distress, and said, if they could get a little furniture, they should do pretty well; I sent them to my upholster in Fleet street, and he let them have 26 l. worth of goods upon my credit, I had that confidence in their characters; the money was to be paid at 5 l. a quarter; they are of a very good family, and have some dependance from them. I thought them good people.
Mr. Lowrey. The prisoners lodg'd 4 months in my house, during that time they behav'd very decently, and very soberly.
Q. Where do you live?
Lowrey. In Round court in the Strand, and they had a shop in Vine street, just by Mr. Mason's; he gave me a bill of sale, so I lost nothing by them.
Susannah. Guilty of stealing, but not privately in the shop .
Samuel Acquitted .
Moses Birch , was indicted for stealing 6 wooden barrels fill'd with flour, value 38 s. the property of William Slade , June 1 . +
John Burnet . I am a corn dealer and lighterman; I sent a barge down, in order to fetch some flour from a mill. On the first of June, we brought the barge to the ship, and left it there, in order to work it on the next day. Then I sent my servant there; he return'd, and told me he miss'd 6 barrels of meal; we went out, and found the prisoner at the bar a washing his boat (he is a waterman) this was on the Monday morning, after he had sunk her in order to wash her; yet there were some stains of flour upon her. We took him in custody. I said you are a villain, you have robb'd me of 6 barrels of flour, tell me where it is; at last he told us it was at his house; we went and found it there, and weigh'd it, there were 900 and odd weight of it.
Q. Whose meal was it?
Burnett. The property of William Slade . I was employed as his waterman; it was a particular order, only 3 bushels and a half in a barrel. The prisoner had taken out the heads of the barrels that had the brand marks on them, but I knew the barrels.
James Hays . I loaded this vessel on the 31st of May, about 2 in the afternoon, and came to London with them on Sunday the 1st of June. I went down on the Monday morning, and found there were 6 barrels missing; then I came and told my master; we went down to enquire of people about Ratcliff Cross; we found the prisoner washing his boat, with some stains of flour on it; we charg'd him with taking the 6 barrels out of the barge; he own'd he had taken them, and brought them on shore, and that they were at his house. My master went to his house, but I did not, when I saw the vessels heads with the name W. Slade were taken away, but I believe the vessels to be the same we lost.
On that Sunday I had been to Greenwich with a fair; staying there some time we drank pretty plentifully; I got a good deal in liquor, and lay down instead of stowing my boat; 3 men came, and bid me to carry them on board that barge; one of them jump'd into the lighter, then the other, and then the other. I said, for God's sake, what are you going to do; one drew a cutlass from under his coat, and swore I was a dead man if I spoke a word; they took out 6 casks, and I was to have half a guinea to let them be at my house; I thought they might belong to the lighterman; this was in the dead of the night, so that I have no witnesses.
For the prisoner.
Q. What is his general character?
A. Nicholls. I never heard any thing amiss of him till this; he was at my house the evening before this happened.
Q. How long did he stay?
A. Nicholls. He did not stay above 20 minutes.
Q. What time did he go away?
A. Nicholls. About 9 in the evening.
Q. What are you?
A. Nicholls. I am a river pilot; I have known the prisoner ever since he was born.
Q. What is his general character?
E. Nicholls. I never knew any thing amiss of him.
Q. Do you know where he was that Sunday night?
E. Nicholls. No, I do not.
Q. What has been his behaviour?
Grimes. I know nothing bad of him before this fact happened.
Q. Do you know where he was on Sunday the 1st of June?
Tebay. I am a stable keeper, and I am a constable; I think it was about the beginning of June I was desired by my Lord Pomfret to take the prisoner into custody; I went to my Lord's house, and took him up; he was a servant there.
Q. In what capacity?
Tebay. I do not know; my Lord said the prisoner had taken a purse of money out of his room.
Q. Was my Lord present when you took the prisoner in custody?
Tebay. He was; my Lord mention'd what the sum was, but that I cannot be certain to.
Q. What said the prisoner?
Tebay. He denied it at first; I told him he had better own it; then he went along with me to where he had conceal'd it; I followed him to a little place where my Lord's horses stand; he went up into a lost, and upon an old ceiling he look'd about, and put his hand up to within 2 or 3 tyles of the ridge tyle into a little hole, and pull'd out a purse of gold, and gave it to me; I took and brought it to my Lord; my Lord told the money, as near as I can guess there were 29 or 30 guineas. I believe 30.
Q. What did the prisoner say when he took them out of the tyling?
Tebay. I asked him how he came by it, and where; he said he took it, in order to take care of it, till my Lord came home, and that he took it out of my Lord's room from off a chair.
Q. Did he tell you what day it was?
Q. Did he say how long he had had it in his possession?
Q. Do you know whether my Lord had been out of town at that time?
Tebay. No, I do not know that.
Q. Was the boy with you when you delivered it to my Lord?
Tebay. He was.
Q. Did my Lord ask him any questions?
Tebay. I believe he did, but I can't repeat the words.
Q. What did the boy say?
Tebay. Then he said he was sorry that he had done it, but he did intend to give it my Lord again, or to that purpose.
Q. In what capacity are you servant to my Lord?
Barnes. I am groom.
Q. What was the prisoner?
Barnes. He went on errands.
Q. How long had he been there?
Barnes. About 3 months.
Q. How came he to be suspected?
Barnes. I do not know. I think it was because all the other servants had been examined, and he was the last; he was not in the way when they were examined, and he was the first that went into the room, after my Lord was gone, to take the things away, between 11 and 12.
Q. What room was it?
Barnes. It was my Lord's dressing room; I saw him come down again with the constable.
I took the money out of the chair, with an intention to give it to his Lordship when he came home again; and when my Lord came home I went to water the horses, and forgot it.
For the Prisoner.
Q. How old is he?
Bradshaw. He his about 15 years old.
Q. Where did he live before he came to live with my Lord?
Bradshaw. He lived with Mr. Davis at Tositer better than a year; he is a nephew of mine.
Q. What is his character?
Bradshaw. I never heard any thing of him but that of a good character.
Q. What has been his character?
Reeve. I never knew otherwise but that he had a very good character, for whatever I heard.
After the verdict my Lord Pomfret spoke to this purport.
In consideration of the prisoner's youth, and the first time he has committed a crime of this sort, and always bore a good character before, and
He received sentence to be branded in the hand, and was branded immediately .
Q. Did you know her before?
Chant. I had seen her backward and forward for a month or 2; there were 4 or 5 people drinking along with her in the same company.
Q. Men or women?
Chant. Some men and some women; they went away about 11 at night,
Q. What did they drink out of?
Chant. They drank out of a silver quart mugg; I miss'd the mugg as soon as they were gone.
Q. When you let people drink out of silver, do you not look about to see whether all are safe before they go?
Chant. I was then busy in shutting up the windows.
Q. Did they all go away together?
Chant. They did; I searched about that night but could not find it; the next morning I sent for some of those people that were drinking with the prisoner; they all denied it, they were neighbours, some of them lived in Newin yard.
Q. Did you know where the prisoner liv'd?
Chant. No, I did not; then I went to the constable, and told him of it; he said, send for them all together, and I'll examine them, to see if they will any of them confess. While I was gone, my wife told it to Mr. Nichols, and he met with the prisoner by accident; he can give a farther account.
Q. What are you?
Nichols. I am a weaver; I went over for a penyworth of beer at the prosecutor's as usual, the prosecutor's spouse was saying she had lost a silver mugg, mentioning who had been there; I said, I knew where the lived; I went to see for her, and I met street, and asked her if she would drink, and took her in at the house of Mr. Buckmaster, ker. She there said she wanted to go to the vault; the maid went along with her; the maid came and said she heard something drop into the vault; we went and searched, and found the silver mugg there.
Q. What time was this?
Nichols. This was between 2 and 3 in the afternoon.
Q. What did the prisoner say upon its being found?
Nichols. I never heard her say a word about it.
William Boss . I have known the prisoner almost a year. On the 29th of May I went along with Mr. Nichols, in order to find the prisoner, and we met with her in the street; we asked her to go and take part of a tankard of beer; she made an excuse to go in at a baker's shop, to get a halfpenny worth of bread; saying, she could not drink without eating first; when we were there, she asked to go backwards to the vault. Mr. Nichols and I both staid at the door; we were afraid she would give us the slip, and go out backwards; the maid went with her; she came running to us, and told us something dropp'd from her; then we went, and searched, and I took the mugg out of the vault. Then we took her back to the prosecutor's house; he charged her with taking the mugg, and before justice Welch, I heard her confess she took it. The justice asked her what she was going to do with the mugg. She said, she was going to carry it home with some beer in it.
Mary Carey . I live with Mr. George Buckmaster , a baker; the prisoner, and the two last witnesses, came to my master's house; she came in to buy some bread, it was about 2 o'clock in the day, I can't tell the day; I was in the ketchen, joining almost the shop; the prisoner asked me for a halfpenny worth of bread; my master serv'd her; then she asked to go backwards to make water; my master answered, give you a little water, he thought she wanted some water; she said no, sir, to make water: then he said to her, ask the maid; then he call'd me to him, and said, go backwards with this woman; I ask'd for what; he said, she wanted to make water. I said, there were more places to make water in than coming just there. I went with her to the necessary house; I opened the door, and bid her go in; then I
I know nothing of it.
For the Prisoner.
Q. How long have you liv'd there?
M. Linnet. 20 years; I have known the prisoner about 12 months; she went to see my husba nd when he was in the hospital; she brought things from him home very honestly, and very just, I never heard any harm of her.
Q. What is her general character?
Stevens. An honest, poor, industrious woman; she sometimes winds silk, and sometimes works in the loom with me.
Q. What has been her behaviour;
M. Cook. I never knew any ill by her in my life before this; I have been with her day and night.
Elizabeth Hill. I have known her 3 months before christmas; I never heard any ill of her; she work'd hard for her living.
Q. What are you?
Bovine, I am a weaver; she behav'd very honest and soberly, I have left her with the care of my house in our absence, and never miss'd any thing.
228. (L.) John Carver , was indicted for taking a false oath before Dr. Ducarrel, in the prerogative court of Canterbury; swearing that he was half brother to Wm Barry , deceas'd; and that he died without any nearer relations, in order, by means of an administration, to obtain money due to him on board his majesty's ship the Salisbury , Feb. 29 .*
Q. In what capacity?
Moxey. I am a messenger; in Feb. last, towards the latter end, the prisoner came to me, and one Walter Poor along with him; they said they came from Mr. Holding, an acquaintance of mine, and that Mr. Holding would be much oblig'd to me, if I would put the prisoner in the readiest way I could to receive his brother's wages, and Prize money, who was dead on board the Salisbury in the East Indies: he said his brother's name was Wm Barry , and that he had a letter, acquainting him of his brother's death. I ask'd him in what manner I could be of any service to him; he said, by enquiring what wages and prize money was due to him, that he might administer accordingly. As I knew Mr. Dixon, who was agent, and paid the prize money for that ship; I think it was on the next day that I went to Mr. Dixon, and found him at home; I ask'd him, if he would be kind enough to let me know what prize money might be due to Wm Barry of the Salisbury. He gave me an account of 3 different sums, which amounted in the whole to 54 l. 9 s. then for the time he had been on board the man of war. I knew the wages and prize money would amount to upwards of 60 l. I then told them they must administer for upper value, that is, to exceed 60 l. I saw no more of them after this for some days; then they came and brought an administration, and desired I would apply to Mr. Dixon to receive this prize money, as an agent for the prisoner, to receive the prize money only. I think this was but 2 or
Q. Which of them spoke to you about it?
Moxey. They both did, but Walter Poor said the most, this seem'd very ignorant, the other understood, and seem'd to conduct the whole affair. When I came to the Navy office, I found them both waiting for me there; there was a great throng about the house, so that I did not know how to come at the door; then the prisoner at the bar took the administration from his bosom, and deliver'd it to me, and desir'd I would receive the money, and he would make me a gratuity. I went in, and receiv'd 54 l. 9 s. and sign'd my name Richard Moxey for John Carver , administrator to his book; and I believe in less than half an hour I paid it to the prisoner at the bar, and took his receipt for the same ( producing it) it is read.
I wrote the body of it, and he sign'd it; and I gave the money and administration to the prisoner at the bar.
Moxey. John Carver was, here is the warrant upon which the administration was granted (producing it.) The prisoner dropp'd a guinea into my hand, and said, will that satisfy you? I said yes; he said, you have been of great service to me, and gave me another.
Q. Did you go with them to take out the administration?
Moxey. No, I did not.
Moxey. It was Walter Poor ; I believe he was the sole transactor of this affair, and the prisoner was guided by him; the prisoner in every respect behaved as much like a stranger in it as any body could do, and Walter Poor quite otherwise.
Q. Do you know of any application made to you for the payment of money by Mr. Moxey?
£. s. d.
One for the taking Shandanagore, 9 3 6
Another for taking Goree, 1 16 6
And the Nabob of Bengall's gift, 43 9 0
The lotal 54 9 0
Dixon. When the books come home, we have them examin'd at the Navy office, to see what men are dead; and the dead men are paid by administration, and the living by letter of attorney.
Q. Did you make any difficulty of paying the money?
Dixon. I do not remember I did; I remember 2 or 3 days after, when Mr. Moxey came, I bid him take care how he brought himself into a scrape; I think he said he would have nothing more to do with them.
Jol. Robins. I was apply'd to by Mr. Farrer's clerk, named Jones, to attend for Mr. Farrer as proctor for him. I attended with Mr. Jones at Doctors Commons before Dr. Ducarrel, with a man.
Q. Look at the prisoner, do you know him?
Robins. I cannot be certain to him, I never saw him only last sessions and now; since, if it is he, I went with a person there, and he swore himself brother by the half blood to the deceased, and by that means obtained letters of administration; I was present, and attested it as a notary public.
Q. Look upon this.
Robins. (He takes a writing in his hand) This is my attestation, and here is Dr. Ducarrel's hand writing (pointing to it.)
Wm Jones . I am clerk to Mr. Farrer, a Proctor in the Commons; the prisoner came with 2 women to the office; I ask'd him if the deceased had made a Will; he said no. I ask'd him how near a kin he was to him; he said he was a brother by the half blood, and that he did not know any other kin he had.
Q. Did you know the prisoner before?
Jones. I never saw him before that time.
Goodwin. I do not know the person, I do not know the parties that executed the bond; I fill'd up the bond and saw it executed, but I don't know by whom executed, I saw all the parties sign it.
Q. Look about the court, do you see any body here that sign'd it?
Goodwin. No, I do not see any body in court that I can say sign'd it?
Q. Look at the prisoner.
Goodwin. It is impossible to remember who signs these, there comes may be half a score in a day.
Q. Do you believe the prisoner is the man?
Goodwin. I cannot say.
Q. to Jones. Do you believe the prisoner to be the man?
Jones. I can't take upon me to say he is the person, but I believe he is the man.
Mr. Fuller. I am a proctor; on the 1st of March I was absent; on my return I received a note wrote by Wm Jones , just now examin'd, that a person had apply'd for an administration, one John Carver , to the effects of Wm Barry , deceas'd, on board the Salisbury.
Q. Did you see that man?
Fuller. No, I never did till last sessions.
Q. Where is Mr. Farrer?
Fuller. He is not here, but he never saw the person.
The. Haywood. I was before my lord mayor some time in April last, the prisoner at the bar was brought before him.
Q. What are you?
Haywood. I was clerk for Mr. Callaghan, attorney for the prosecutor. The prisoner was there charg'd with taking a false oath, and by virtue of that receiving 54 l. 9 s. the proper of Wm Barry , he said before my lord mayor: my lord ask'd him, if he had been guilty of taking out this false administration; to which he made answer, he had, and hop'd his lordship would forgive him, and that it was the first offence he had done, and he was an ignorant man. His lordship answer'd, he was oblig'd to commit him.
The charge was for taking a false oath, to obtain a letter of administration, in order to obtain the prize money, due, &c. but there not being sufficient proof of his taking that oath he was Acquitted .
229. (L.) Margaret Edwards , widow , was indicted for making an assault upon William Linton , in her dwelling house, putting him in corporal fear and danger of his life, and taking from his person 3 guineas, his property, and against his will , June 9 . +
William Linton . I keep a little house in Long lane ; I had been at Knights bridge on the 9th of June, and staid there part of the evening; coming home, just as I came out of Broad St. Giles's, into Holborn, the prisoner at the bar was walking along as I was. Said I, I believe this is my way to Smithfield; said she, I am going that way. Soon after she said, as we walk together let's drink together; said I, that is no way unserviceable; this was near Middle Row; she went to a house, and push'd the door open, and went in; said I this is not a public house, we cannot have a pint of beer here; there was a bed, she took and pushed me cross it, and flung her petticoats over my head, and feel upon me; she put her hand in my pocket, in which were 5 guineas. Said I, this is not having a pint of beer, to rob me of my money; then she got up, and went up one pair of stairs, and came down again; said I, you have robb'd me of 3 guineas (I had felt in my pocket and miss'd them) I got hold of her arm; she kept pulling till she got into the street; I call'd the watchman, he came and took her to the watchhouse.
Q. What time was this?
Linton. I believe it was about 12 o'clock; I had been to pay my rent, and my landlord was not at home; since she has been in custody, several people have come in her name, and offer'd me my money if I would be favourable to her.
Q. What day of the week was this?
Linton. It was on Monday the 9th of June.
Q. Had she spoke to you before you did to her?
Linton. I believe I spoke first, but I will not be positive.
Linton. No, I did not; she ask'd me to go and drink a pint of beer together.
Q. Whereabouts in Holborn was this?
Linton. It was just before we came to Middle Row, she turn'd down on the right hand.
Q. When you was before my Lord Mayor, where did you say you had been robb'd?
Linton. I said it was in Magpye alley, I never was there before, nor since.
Q. What money had you in your pocket?
Linton. I had 5 guineas, and 5 shillings in silver; the silver was in the bottom of my pocket, and the gold wrapp'd in a piece of paper.
Q. What room was this bed in?
Linton. As soon as we entered the house, there was a bed on the first floor, on the left hand as I went in.
Q. Had you any conversation with the prisoner in that room?
Linton. I said this is not a public house, you cannot have a pint of beer here; no sooner was the word out of my mouth, but she struck me with a push, and I fell down, and she over me.
Q. from prisoner. Whether you did not ask me to lie down upon the bed?
Linton. Upon my oath I did not.
Q. Did not you push her down?
Linton. I never touched her, till I catch'd her hand in my pocket.
Q. Had you made any overtures to her to give her any money.
Linton. No, I had not; she had a very good cardinal on, and I thought her more like a motherly woman than one of that kind.
Q. Were all the 5 guineas wrapp'd up together?
Linton. They were.
Q. Is it possible, she could out of 5 guineas, wrapt in a bit of paper, take 3?
Linton. She broke the paper. At the watchhouse I produced the 2 guineas, and the piece of paper which she had broke through.
Q. What time did you set out from Knights bridge?
Linton. I set out from thence at about 11 o'clock.
Q. When did you put that money in the paper?
Linton. When I was in Grigg street, I call'd on a friend.
Q. Was this woman all you met with in your way?
Linton. I met with several people before I met with her, but I had no conversation with any of them.
Q. How long was you before you charg'd the prisoner, after you came out of that house in Magpye alley?
Linton. As soon as possible, she came into the street, I call'd and the watchman came to my assistance.
Q. What did she say, when she took your money?
Linton. Not a word, good not bad, but pushed me down, and put her hand in my pocket.
Q. Was you sober?
Linton. I had been drinking some rum and water, but I was no way at all disguised; this is the paper the money was in (producing a piece of paper that was torne)
Edward Belamy . I am a watchman; the clock was ready to strike one when I heard the prosecutor call watch; I was in Castle yard; Magpye alley is infested with such people as this is. I have seen her frequently about on nights; I saw the man and woman standing at the Castle door together, I went and took her to the constable of the night; the prosecutor charg'd her with picking his pocket of 3 guineas; he show'd us the torne paper and the 2 guineas at the watchhouse.
Q. What did the woman say?
Belamy. She said nothing to me, nor I to her.
I had been in Long acre, and I met this man; he pushed against me 2 or 3 times, and said Betty, if you'll come and lie down I'll give you a shilling: I said go along, or I'll call the watchman; I call'd the watch, he never did; when the watchman came, he said this woman has pick'd my pocket of 3 guineas. I desired to be searched.
Q. to prosecutor. Was the prisoner searched?
Prosecutor. No, she was not.
Prisoner. I gave the watchman charge of the man; I saw a man and woman run down Magpye alley, he was in another woman's house, it was not in mine; I was in no house upon my word and honour; he desired to make it up with me on the last day of June.
Q. to watchman. Did the prisoner give you charge of the prosecutor?
Watchman. No, she did not.
Q. to prosecutor. Are you certain this is the woman?
Q. to watchman. How far from her own house did you take her into custody?
Watchman. The very next door to her own.
For the Prisoner.
Q. What is her character?
E. Connely. I never knew nothing of her but that of a sober honest woman.
Q. Does she get her living by that now?
E. Connel. She does, and works very hard for her living.
Elizabeth Salmon . I have known her about 7 years, she lived by selling fish, and sometimes by selling of fruit, according as fruit was; she was always a very hard working woman for her family, always just and honest.
Jane Shoen . I have known her 2 years; I lived servant with her a year, she gave me 52 shillings a year; I have been come away from her 2 months; I went out for her with fish in the winter time, and fruit in the summer; she bera s the character of an honest woman, as far as ever I heard or saw; she always bid me go to bed in good hours when I came home, that I might get up in the morning.
Q. What is her character?
M. M. Coone. Her character is selling fruit, and to go to market.
Q. Is she look'd upon to be honest or dishonest?
M. M. Coone. She was always an honest woman, as far as ever I heard; I liv'd with her the same time as this happened.
He stood also charg'd on the coroner's inquisition for manslaughter, May 7 .*
Q. What are you?
Davidson. I am a chairman.
Q. How came you to go to Windsor?
Davidson. My partner Wm Robertson , the deceased, and I went there for work at the installation; we were coming from Windsor on the 7 th of May, about 8 o'clock in the evening, and about a hundred yards on the other side the 10 mile stone on Hounslow heath , we overtook a waggon, they had been with leather to Eaton they were returning empty, we ask'd them to give us a lift.
Q. How may were there of you?
Q. What happened, did you see the prisoner at the bar?
Davidson. I wish I had never seen him; when we had got into the waggon, coming along, we were merry, there was an old woman in the waggon with us; the prisoner overtook us on the other side the way, with a chaise marine, the chaise marine went by us, and as high as I can guess the prisoner was on the left hand side on horseback; he said nothing to us, nor we to him, but he turn'd back again and whipp'd our horses; the waggoner ask'd him what that was for? he turn'd back again a 2 d time, and whipp'd the other 2 horses.
Q. Whether at the time he turn'd back and whipp'd your horses, the chaise marine was nearer to Hounslow than your waggon was?
Davidson. Then the chaise marine was pretty near the end of the town, for they ran a full trot.
Q. What distance from you?
Davidson. I can't account within a few yards; we were near the 10 mile stone, and they near the end of the town; the 10 mile stone stands about a 100 yards from the end of the town, I cannot be exact.
Q. Upon his coming back, and striking the other 2 horses, what happened then?
Davidson. Then they ask'd him what that was for; then he whipp'd us with his horsewhip in the waggon.
Q. Did you observe in particular that he whipp'd the deceased?
Davidson. He did not strike at any body in particular, but whipp'd who he could.
Davidson. He whipp'd me several times.
Q. Did you observe any blow to light upon the deceased?
Davidson. No, I did not, the deceased had a little willow stick in his hand, he shook it at the prisoner, and said he deserv'd to be beat.
Q. Did you keep your eye upon the prisoner?
Davidson. I did.
Q. Did he receive any blow?
Davidson. No, he did not.
Q. Was he within that distance to receive a blow?
Davidson. No, the deceased could not reach him if he would have struck him.
Counsel. Then, if I understand you right, the prisoner could reach the deceased with his whip, but the deceased could not reach the prisoner with his stick.
Davidson. No, the deceased could not reach him, his stick was about 3 feet long, the prisoner had a whip with a lash.
Prisoner. I desire to send for my whip (a messenger goes for it)
Davidson. The prisoner immediately said, if you don't like that take this, and pull'd out his hanger?
Q. What is become of the willow stick?
Davidson. I don't know, we were glad to make away to save our lives; we let alone the stick, the prisoner made a stroke at the deceased at the tail of the waggon with his hanger, and the deceased had a cut over his right eye, but whether he receiv'd it at that blow I can't take upon me to say.
Q. Was that a fresh cut?
Davidson. It was a fresh cut, and the blood ran down his cheek.
Q. Was there not a wound there before?
Q. Was you with him all that day before?
Davidson. I was; the deceased either tumbled or jump'd out of the waggon then, I can't say which.
Q. Was he sitting or standing?
Davidson. He stood up an end then, he had been sitting before at the tail of the waggon, by the means of either falling or jumping he was down on his backside in the road; and as he was rising up, the prisoner at the bar came with his hanger and made a stroke at him; the deceased seeing it coming over his head, he held up his right hand to save the blow, to defend his head; I heard the blow, and heard the bone crack, I was by the side of him at the same time he received it, the blow was given with great force indeed.
Q. Where did the blow fall?
Davidson. It fell cross his wrist (he show'd the place on his own hand, about 8 or 9 inches from his knuckles)
Q. Whether you apprehend, if he had not held up his hand in that position the blow would have fell on his head?
Davidson. It must, it could not be avoided.
Q. What was done after this?
Davidson. The deceased clapp'd his left hand under his right hand, and said, Lord have mercy upon me, he has chopp'd my hand off.
Q. After this, did you endeavour to give this man any assistance?
Davidson. He dropp'd down. I was stooping to take him up, the prisoner came and made a cut at me, and cut my coat cross my back with his hanger (he show'd a chairman's blue coat, with a small mark on it) I stoop'd down, and he could not reach me; the deceas'd bled excessively, we brought him to Hounslow.
Q. How did you bring him?
Davidson. We led and guided him along, he was able to walk, we had not above a hundred yards to go; there were 2 surgeons, one that liv'd in the town, and another that belong'd to the regiment that lay there; they stopp'd the bleeding; then we took a post chaise for him, and I came with him to London.
Q. How was he all the way he came?
Davidson. He was very sick, he complain'd he was very sick. I brought him to Hyde Park corner, he could not bare going over the stones; then I got a chair, and brought him home to his own apartment, at a butcher's shop at the upper end of Old Bond Street.
Q. Did you see him after this?
Davidson. I did, he once thought himself better, but he grew worse at last, and died the 18th of May, about 20 minutes past 12 at mid-day, I was with him when he died.
Q. After this blow was given, did the prisoner declare any thing what he would do in case any body offer'd to take him?
Davidson. At the Rose at Hunslow he dismounted his horse, and there is a little room on the right hand, he got into that, and with his hanger drawn in his right hand, lying over his left hand, he stood in the doorway, and said, if
Q. What did he do after the wound was given?
Davidson. He made all the way he cou'd to the town of Hounslow, he rode as fast as he could, he was pursued with the cry stop thief; the woman at the 5 bells said, what is the matter; I said, he has chopp'd a man's hand off.
Q. Where was he taken?
Davidson. He was taken at Mr. Fuller's, at the Rose at Hounslow.
Q. Was you before the justice with him?
Davidson. I was.
Q. What did he say there?
Davidson. He said, pray Sir do you know who I am. No really, said the justice, I don't know who you are. Said he, I am groom of the chamber to the right honourable secretary Pitt.
Q. Was there any driver to this waggon?
Davidson. The drivers were in the waggon.
Q. How were the horses going?
Davidson. They were going quietly along.
Q. Were the horses led by any body?
Davidson. No, there were nobody but what were in the waggon.
Q. How many drivers were there?
Davidson. There were 2.
Counsel. And both in the Waggon?
Q. Was they at the tail of the waggon, or fore part?
Davidson. They were at the fore part, speaking to their horses.
Q. At the time Mr. Roberts came by, was there or was there not any body conducting the waggon?
Davidson. There was not, they were in the waggon.
Q. Was the waggon in the middle, or on one side the road?
Davidson. On one side the road.
Q. When the chaise past you, was the waggon in the middle or on one side?
Davidson. It was on the left hand side the road, leaving room for the chaise, and 2 chaises more to pass.
Q. Where was the chaise marine when the prisoner spoke to you?
Davidson. That was gone by us before he spoke any thing to us.
Q. Did the waggoner drive up, in order to overtake the chaise, or not?
Davidson. No, not to my knowledge; no not at that time before the wound was given.
Q. When the chaise had overtaken the waggon, did the waggon overtake the chaise again?
Davidson. No, sir, not at all.
Counsel. I would be very glad to know how this was introduced; whether by any provocation or not, that the prisoner was riding on the left hand side the chaise, and past you, and nothing was said, but the prisoner, without any thing having been said, turn'd back, and whipp'd your horses. Can you assign any reason at all for it, why he should turn back and whip your horses, if the chaise had clearly past you?
Davidson. There was no reason at all why he should turn back and whip our horses, nothing had been said, and the prisoner had past us.
Counsel. Nothing had been said from the waggoner to him?
Davidson. No, not a word.
Counsel. I am answered. You say, after the chaise past you, and were got a hundred yards before you, there were some words past, what words were they?
Davidson. I can't tell.
Counsel. Angry words?
Davidson. They were not very pleasant words.
Q. In what nature were these words?
Davidson. It seem'd as if it was in passion.
Q. Where was the deceased then?
Davidson. He was then laid down.
Q. Were there angry words on both sides?
Davidson. My partner, the deceased, or some body else, said to him that he deserved licking for it.
Q. Before he whipp'd you in the waggon, were there angry words past?
Davidson. Yes, after he had whipp'd the horses a second time.
Q. What were these words, were they hard names.
Davidson. I don't know what you call hard names.
Q. Are you sure the whip had a thong to it?
Davidson. I am sure it had.
Q. How long was it?
Davidson. I can't tell the length of it.
Q. How long was the willow stick?
Q. How thick?
Davidson. About as thick as my finger.
Q. Had any one in the waggon a stick besides?
Davidson. No, nobody.
Q. This man being your partner, how was his left hand?
Davidson. His left hand was a little lamish by a hurt he had; he had not the use of his fingers so well as a great many people, but he could close them well enough to get his bread.
Q. Could he grasp a stick?
Davidson. Really I cannot tell whether he could or not.
Q. Did you ever see him grasp any thing in that hand?
Davidson. I cannot tell.
Q. Did you observe his wound over his eye bleed before he came out of the waggon?
Davidson. I did not see that wound till I came to take him up.
Counsel. Then you did not see that wound in the waggon?
Davidson. No, whether he received it before or after he came out of the waggon I cannot say. I did not observe the blood run down his cheek till I came to take him up when he was out of the waggon.
Q. Whether the deceased was on his legs in the waggon?
Davidson. He was lying in the waggon at first, but he was on his legs when he came out; but whether he jump'd or tumbled out I can't say.
Q. How long had he been on his legs?
Davidson. I can't say how long.
Counsel. Then he might have been on his legs 5 or 6 minutes.
Davidson. No, no.
Q. Was he on his legs at the time of shaking his stick at the prisoner?
Davidson. I can't say whether he was or not.
Q. Was one of the waggoners in a white coat?
Davidson. Upon my life I can't tell what cloaths he had on.
Court. You are upon your oath?
Davidson. Upon my oath I cannot.
Q. What cloaths had the deceased on?
Davidson. He had a chairman's green coat on.
Counsel. You just now described to the court, by showing in what manner he held his hand at the time he receiv'd the blow, do that once more?
Davidson. He holds his right hand from the elbow very near, he holds his right hand up, just so, it was not a pitch'd guard.
Q. Did the prisoner strike at the head by the manner of the blow?
Davidson. I really believe it was designed for the head, or any where were he could hit.
Q. What leads you to say, if the deceased had not held up his hand, the blow would have fallen on his head?
Davidson. Because it fell so high his head.
Q. Describe then where the wound was?
Davidson. It was over here, putting his finger towards the inside of his wrist.
Q. How then, as he held his hand, could the wound be there?
Davidson Because he was on horse back.
Q. How could he receive the blow on the inside the hand?
Davidson. The blow came over the head.
Q. On what side was the prisoner's horse at the time of the blow?
Davidson. The prisoner's horse was on the deceased's right hand, he was on horse back, my partner was on the prisoner's right hand side.
Q. Now again say how that was; if he held his hand in the way you describe, how could a man prevent the blow from falling on the head by holding his hand so?
Davidson. The wound was there.
Q. Did he hold his hand in such sort, that if it had not been held up the blow would have fell upon his head?
Davidson. Yes; I told you so before, it was held to guard the head.
Q. Did you see any dirt, stones or pebbles thrown?
Davidson. Yes, sir, I did.
Q. How came they to be thrown?
Davidson. I do not know which of them throw'd them, it was gravel, they were upon the ground then, it was thrown by those belonging to the waggon, I can't give an account of it.
Q. Did you see any stones or gravel thrown?
Davidson. I did.
Q. Can't you say by who?
Davidson. It was by the people belonging to the waggon, and our company, they had not time to look for any pick stones, for he was for riding over them, they picked up the gravel in the road.
Note, The Remainder of these Proceedings will be published in a few Days.
In the Thirty-third Year of His MAJESTY'S Reign. NUMBER VI. PART II. for the YEAR 1760. Being the Sixth SESSIONS in the MAYORALTY of The Right Honble Sir Thomas CHITTY , Knt. LORD-MAYOR of the CITY of LONDON.
Printed, and sold by G. KEARSLY (Successor to the late Mr. Robinson) at the Golden-Lion, in Ludgate-Street, 1760.
King's Commissions of the Peace, and Oyer and Terminer, for the City of LONDON, and at the General Sessions of Gaol Delivery for Newgate holden for the City of LONDON, and County of MIDDLESEX, at Justice-Hall in the Old-Bailey, & c.
Q. WAS this before or after the wound given?
Davidson. This was after the wound given.
Q. Had neither of you stones till after the wound?
Davidson. No, nor stick neither, but that willow stick; I saw none thrown till after the wound.
Q. Must you have seen it if any had been thrown?
Davidson. I must, but I saw none thrown before.
Q. Did the deceased, your partner, continue holding the stick in his hand after he got out of the waggon?
Davidson. No, he was not long upon the ground before he receiv'd that cut.
Q. Do you, or do you not remember seeing him with the stick in his hand after he was out of the waggon?
Davidson. I don't remember that I did.
Q. Did any body hit the prisoner?
Davidson. No, there were nobody at all did.
Counsel. Nor no stones thrown till after the wound?
Q. How did you pursue the prisoner on foot?
Davidson. We were all on foot, we had no horses to ride.
Q. Did he stop at Hounslow?
Davidson. He did.
Q. Was it by force?
Davidson. I don't know whether it was or not; he was pursued into the town, and we alarmed the town.
Q. How long after you got into the town that you saw him?
Davidson. I saw him in the little room.
Q. Where was his horse?
Davidson. His horse was in the stable.
Q. Who paid for the chaise?
Davidson. He did.
Q. Did he or did he not behave with humanity towards the deceased, and express his sorrow for what had happened?
Davidson. No sir, I did not see any such thing.
Q. How came the deceased to be carried home?
Davidson. He said he desired to go to his own being, as he had a wife to nurse him, and I carried him there.
David Tooth . I was one of the company; at the time I had been at Windsor, and was coming back, we had been to the installation, to carry any gentleman that wanted a chair; we were coming along about 200 yards beyond the 10 miles stone on Hounslow Heath, on the 7th of May, about 8 in the evening, we overtook this Waggon, and ask'd the waggoner to let us ride towards London; he gave us leave, and said with all his heart; we all got up in the waggon.
Q. How many were there of you?
Tooth. There were 4 chairmen of us, 2 waggoners, and a woman, 7 in all; we had not been in the waggon a quarter of an hour before we were overtaken by the prisoner.
Q. Which side of the road was the waggon on at that time?
Tooth. The waggon was on the left side of the road, there was room for 3 or 4 carriages to go along on the other side the way without any interruption at all; the prisoner rode by the waggon, and struck the foremost horse with his whip; he left the waggon on the left hand; he was on the right of the chaise and the left of the waggon; after he had struck the fore horse he rode on, and rode a little way; the waggoner call'd him 3 or 4 names, and said, what busin ess had you to do so,
Q. What were the words?
Tooth. They were, as near as I can guess, what business have you to meddle with the horses.
Q. Who spoke them?
Tooth. The waggoner spoke them; he rode up and flourished his whip, he struck at us in the waggon, but whether he hit any body I don't know; and directly said, if this will not do you shall have something here that will do for you; then he clap'd his hand to his side and drew his hanger; I am not certain whether he drew his hanger before the deceased got out of the waggon; neither am I certain whether he jump'd out or fell out; he was sitting in the tail of the waggon directly when he got out with a little willow stick in his hand about 3 foot long, I saw it in his hand when he got out of the waggon; he went up to the prisoner, and as he had struck at every body, there was a sort of a scuffle between them.
Q. Explain what you mean by that scuffle?
Tooth. They seem'd to be striking at one another, one with the hanger the other with the stick.
Q. Did you see the stick in motion?
Tooth. I saw the stick come, but whether he struck the prisoner I don't know.
Q. Was that before he drew his hanger, or afterwards?
Tooth. His hanger was drawn then.
Q. Whether or not the prisoner had struck the deceased with his hanger before you observed the deceased to complain?
Tooth. Within a few minutes I heard him cry out my hand is off; there were 2 or 3 blows past between them before I heard the cry, O, he has cut my hand off.
Q. Can you say, that either of them blows light upon either of them?
Tooth. I did not see a blow light upon either.
Q. Can you take upon you to say, that the deceased had struck the prisoner before he receiv'd the blow given by the hanger?
Tooth. I cannot.
Q. Was the hanger drawn or not drawn when you saw the stick lifted up?
Tooth. Before the stick was lifted up I saw the hanger drawn.
Q. Had he made any blow at the deceased before such time he lifted up the stick?
Tooth. I do not know that he had, he had waved his hanger before that.
Q. What do you imagine that was for?
Tooth. I imagine in order to save himself.
Tooth. Because the man got out of the waggon, and went up to him; the deceased had a stick in his hand, and might strike at him; but I did not see it hit him; after the wound was given we got out of the waggon directly, except the woman, I don't know whether she got out or no; when I got out of the waggon I saw the deceas'd's hand, the wrist was quite full of blood, it bled vastly; we pursued him, and call'd stop thief, and run all the way to Hounslow as fast as we could, and he stood at the Rose and Crown gate; the waggoner that belong'd to the waggon saw him first; he said, that is the man, I'll take my oath of it. Directly I made answer, as soon as I saw him, come all away, for fear of mischief, I know him, he lives with Mr. Secretary Pitt ; then directly he made an offer to run after me, with his hanger, because I knew him; I run away from him, and glad enough I was, or else he would have given me a slash; we went and got a couple of constables, and took him before a magistrate.
Q. At the time Mr. Roberts whipp'd the horses at first, was the chaise marine gone by?
Tooth. The chaise was gone by.
Q. Did the waggoners speak to their horses, to encourage their horses to go on?
Tooth. Not a word as I heard.
Q. When the deceased got out of the waggon, what distance was it from the prisoner?
Tooth. 4 or 5 yards.
Q. Did he go up to Roberts, or Roberts come to him?
Tooth. He went up to Roberts, I suppose he was angry.
Q. Who went out of the waggon with him?
Tooth. His partner followed him directly.
Q. Who was his partner?
Tooth. That is Davidson.
Q. What colour was the waggoner's coat?
Tooth. He had a light colour'd coat on.
Q. Had any body a stick in their hands besides the deceased?
Tooth. No, nobody.
Q. Did you see his stick move up and down?
Tooth. I did.
Tooth. I imagine he must strike, I saw it in motion.
Q. Can you recollect how often you saw it in motion?
Tooth. May be 2 or 3 motions, I can't say, that was all the defence he had against the hanger.
Q. Did he immediately go up to Mr. Roberts, as soon as he got out of the waggon.
Tooth. He did.
Q. Where was the prisoner?
Tooth. He was then sitting on horseback, they soon got together, they were not far apart.
Q. Do you remember any stones thrown?
Tooth. I did not see it, the waggoner throw'd stones, that was all the defence he had, or he would have been cut in two.
Q. How soon after the deceased got out of the waggon that the waggoner got out?
Tooth. I am not certain, whether it was before the wound was given, I think he did.
Q. Was there any gravel thrown at the prisoner before the wound was given?
Tooth. No, nothing in the world.
Q. Where was you when the wound was given?
Tooth. I was in the waggon.
Q. What was done after the wound given?
Tooth. The prisoner rode away directly after that.
Q. Was he dirty at all?
Tooth. His face was very dirty, and his cloaths spotted with dirt, by people throwing at him to save themselves.
Q. Where was you when he rode away?
Tooth. I did not get out of the waggon till after he rode away.
Q. How soon after he rode away?
Tooth. It might not be half a minute after, he rode away as fast as he could, and we call'd stop thief.
Q. Where did you see him afterwards?
Tooth. I saw him at the Rose and Crown in Hounslow, standing in the gateway.
Q. What open to the public road where carriaes come in?
Q. Did any horsemen pursue him?
Tooth. No, there were no horsemen; there was a man offered a guinea for a horse to pursue him to London.
Q. Who was he?
Tooth. His name is Lomas.
Q. Was the prisoner then in custody, or not?
Tooth. He was not in the custody of any body, till we got the constables to take him, none of us dare go near him.
Counsel. Then from what appear'd to you, he might have rode straight to London, and escap'd?
Tooth. Yes, he might. We all went before justice Bulstrode at Hounslow; the justice enquired, and sent for a surgeon, the surgeon of the regiment, and surgeon of the town, they both dress'd the wound; he said, please your worship let me go to London to-night, I have a great deal of business upon me. The justice said I cannot, if it was Mr. Pitt himself; he order'd us to sit up with the prisoner all night long, and search him. When he was in the gateway he said to a chairman, I wish I had had a pistol, I would have shot you. What for, said I; for his insolence, said he; what, said I, because people have not so much wit as you, you call them insolent.
Q. What was that chairman's name?
Q. How long had the deceased been on his legs in the waggon before he got out of it?
Tooth. I was sitting by the woman playing the rogue, and did not take notice; I did not see him on his legs at all, I was looking more after the prisoner.
Q. Had the deceased a stick in his hand in the waggon?
Tooth. He had.
Q. Did you see him shake it while in the waggon?
Tooth. No, I did not.
Q. Did you take notice of the whip the prisoner had in his hand?
Tooth. To the best of my remembrance it was a short lash'd whip, I believe it was, I am not certain, I did not apprehend it had a thong to it; you will find it a streight whip when it comes.
Q. Was it longer than the stick?
Tooth. I did not measure them, I don't know.
Counsel. You say, when you came to Hounslow none of you dare to take him.
Tooth. Because he had a hanger drawn in his hand within the door, that was the reason we took the constables.
Q. Was the hanger drawn when they came?
Tooth. Yes, and he opposed at first, and afterwards said, let me have the constable I'll surrender, and he surrender'd himself directly; we did not dare to go within 10 yards of him hardly; he said to one of the constables, come here I'll cut your ears off, and make a baker of you; but afterwards he did surrender.
John Lomas . I was along with the rest of them on Hounslow heath on the 7th of May.
Court. Tell your story what you saw.
Lomas. There was Davidson, Tooth, I and the deceased coming from Windsor; there was a waggon coming to town, we ask'd the waggoners to give us a cast, which they agreed to; we all 4 got up in the waggon, and was overtaken by the prisoner on horseback, and a cover'd cart; we were on the left hand side the road, he rode up, and whipp'd the sore horse out of the road into the ditch; the waggoner ask'd him what he did that for? he turn'd back and whipp'd the horses a 2d time, and drove us out of the road a 2d time, they had some words with one another.
Q. What sort of words?
Lomas. I can't tell what words, they were angry words, there might be an oath or two, to know the reason of his using us so, and calling names; then he rode up to the side of the waggon, to horsewhip us, and I got a blow on my chin.
Q. Was the waggon covered?
Lomas. No, it was an open waggon.
Q. Did he strike at you, or promiscuously, as you were all together, or any one in particular?
Lomas. No one in particular, any one he could come at.
Q. Was the deceas'd in the waggon at that time?
Lomas. He was, he had a little stick in his hand.
Q. Did you see him use it?
Lomas. I saw the stick up, but whether he hit I cannot say.
Q. Was that when he was in the waggon?
Lomas. It was.
Q. What did he do with it when it was up?
Lomas. I saw it up waving, I could not perceive whether it hit Mr. Roberts or not.
Q. Do you imagine he might be striking at him?
Lomas. I imagine he might.
Q. Was that before or after his whipping at you?
Lomas. It was after his striking with the whip; whether the deceased tumbled out, or jump'd out of the waggon I know not; but he and his partner and one of the waggoners were out of the waggon.
Q. What happen'd then?
Lomas. I saw no blow given by the cutlass, but heard the deceased cry out, O, my arm is cut.
Q. Did you observe the stick in the deceased's hand when he was out of the waggon?
Lomas. No, I did not.
Q. What did you first observe after they 3 were out of the waggon?
Lomas. The first thing was, I heard the deceas'd cry out, his arm was cut.
Q. Did you see nothing done till then?
Lomas. No, I was not out of the waggon at that time.
Q. Did you see no blow given on either side till you heard him cry out?
Lomas. No, I did not.
Q. What did he say?
Lomas. His arm was cut.
Q. When did you first see the hanger drawn?
Lomas. I did not see it drawn till the prisoner was riding away.
Q. What distance of time do you conceive from the time of the deceas'd going out of the waggon, till you heard him say his arm was cut?
Lomas. O, very soon after that.
Q. Did you hear the prisoner say any thing concerning his hanger before?
Lomas. No, nothing at all.
Q. Where was the prisoner, when you heard the deceased say his arm was cut.
Lomas. He was then riding by the waggon, and I jump'd out and pursued with one of the waggoners.
Q. How far did you pursue?
Lomas. Into Hounslow town, we made the best of our way to know who he was, and he cut several times at the young man and me.
Q. What did you do?
Lomas. We call'd stop thief, the young man stoop'd down, and throw'd up gravel at him; he made several cuts at us, we overtook him at the end of Hounslow town, and we were withinside the rails; he said to the waggoner and me, come up, and I'll do for you, he had his hanger then drawn in his hand; he rode away from us there, and we lost sight of him, we ran down the town, and could see nothing of him, but turned back again, and they had got the deceased into the inn. I went into the inn and he was bleeding; I ran out at the gateway, and said, I'll give any body a guinea for a horse to pursue, to know who he is; the waggoner and I went down the town, the prisoner was standing at the Rose and Crown, with his hanger drawn on his arm at the door.
Q. Did he say any thing to you?
Lomas. The waggoner said, I'll be upon my oath that is the man. Tooth look'd at him, and said, I know him, his name is Roberts, he lives with secretary Pitt, in St. James's square; he cut at Tooth; he ran away, and desired me to come away, for fear of being cut.
Lomas /. I saw him make a blow at Tooth with his hanger; he was taken at last by the 2 constables and me, the others were by at the time. He had been in a little room, and had laid his hanger on the table, and was gone out, and the constable came and knock'd at the door; the prisoner went in, and took the hanger up, and told us, no body should come into the room but the constable; he surrender'd himself, I went into the room afterwards, and he told me, if he had had his pistol he would have shot me; I ask'd him for what reason? he told me, for my insolence; I heard him tell one of the constables, he would cut off his ears, and make a baker of him.
Q. Whether at the time you have been speaking of being pursued, and making several cuts, the prisoner had any notice of the accident or mischief that he had done to the man?
Lomas. I do not know whether he knew he had given such a prodigious wound.
Q. Were those cuts made at you, in order to avoid your taking of him, from the apprehension of the consequences of the injury he had done, or to avoid any assault from you?
Lomas. That I cannot tell.
Q. Whether the deceased was or was not on his legs in the waggon at the time he flourished and waved his stick at the prisoner?
Lomas. I can't tell whether he was on his legs or no, he was the only one that had a stick in the waggon.
Q. At the time the deceased, and his companion and waggoner getting out, had you your eye upon the prisoner?
Lomas. I had not.
Q. Did you notice what kind of a whip it was?
Lomas. I think I can tell it, it was a hand whip, not with a thong to it, I did not perceive a thong, to the best of my knowledge I saw it in the parlour where he was.
Q. Should you not have seen it, if he had had a hanger in his hand at the time they 3 were getting out of the waggon?
Lomas. I did not see the hanger in his hand, and what I did not see, I cannot say, it was partly dark, it was about 8 in the evening.
Q. Might the prisoner have escaped if he would?
Lomas. He might easily have escaped.
Q. What sort of a stick was it the deceased had?
Lomas. It was a willow twig, about as thick as my finger; Davidson saw the deceased cut it as we came along.
Q. to Davidson. Whether the whip the prisoner had, had a long thong or a lash, that is as it were straight at the end of it?
Davidson. To the best of my judgment it was a thong, but I cannot be particular in it.
Q. Whereabouts in the waggon was you?
M. Carter. I was sitting by the waggoner close to the head of the waggon; the prisoner and the chaise went on by the fore horse; he turn'd and hit the fore horse on the head; then the waggoner that had the whip in his hand said to Wm Shotter , the other waggoner, mind that; Wm Shotter said, what is that for?
Q. Who did he speak to?
M. Carter. To the prisoner; then the prisoner said nothing at all, but turn'd again, and repeated the blows more than once or twice, he struck the fore horse again, and turn'd the fore horse shear round, and hit the middle horse also; then the waggoner, and others that were in the waggon, said, what do you do that for; there were words arose between them.
Q. What words?
M. Carter. Angry words; then the prisoner rode up to the side of the waggon, and held the lash of his whip in his hand; it was a longish whip, he held it double, he held the lash and handle in his hand, and hit John Lomas ; he was mark'd somewhere in the face; after he had struck several blows with his whip, he said, if you don't like this, you shall have that, and drew his hanger immediately.
Q. Where was the deceased at the time he drew his hanger?
M. Carter. I think he was at the hinder part of the waggon, I was at the fore part; I cannot say whether he was in or not.
Q. What was the next thing you observed when he said, if you don't like this you shall have that?
M. Carter. The chairman got out of the waggon, the deceased.
Q. Did you see him get out?
M. Carter. I did not, they said he was down.
Q. What did you observe after that declaration?
M. Carter. I saw the hanger up, and I saw it go down, and I heard the blow; I heard the words, he has cut my partners hand off.
M. Carter. No, I did not.
Q. Who do you mean by partner?
M. Carter. Davidson spoke he meant the deceased?
Q. When the prisoner came up with his horsewhip to the side of the waggon, did he strike at any particular person?
M. Carter. No one in particular.
Q. Was the deceased in the waggon at that time?
M. Carter. He was.
Q. Was there any blows given to the prisoner before the hanger was drawn?
M. Carter. Nobody attempted it, nor the waggoner never so much as shook his whip at him, he always gave good words, and desired him to be easy, there were no blows at all struck but what the prisoner struck.
Q. Were there no ill words?
M. Carter. There were words past, they were not very good ones.
Q. What will you call them?
M. Carter. There were angry words, I can't say any thing in particular, there were nothing said in anger till after he struck the horses a second time; they only ask'd him what he did so for.
Q. Did you hear the word blackguard?
M. Carter. I don't know any body that call'd blackguard.
Q. Did you hear swearing?
M. Carter. I don't know that there was swearing; I had a child with me, a little boy.
Q. Did you see the deceased move his stick in the waggon?
M. Carter. I did not.
Q. What distance was the horse that Mr. Roberts was on from the waggon when the deceased got out?
M. Carter. I cannot tell, I take it to be at the hinder part of the waggon when he jump'd out.
Q. Can you tell whether the deceased went to the prisoner, or the prisoner to him?
M. Carter. They were soon met, I cannot tell which moved towards the other.
John Bayles . I was one of the Waggoners; on the 7th of May last I was coming along with my waggon, about a hundred yards from the 10 mile stone, on the near side the road, there came this gentleman on horseback (I'll tell the truth, one man is as much to me as another) there was a tilted cart with him, with two horses in it, the cart went by us; after it was by us, the gentleman took his whip in his left hand, and struck our horse over the head as he past the horse.
Q. Whereabouts in the waggon was you?
Bayles. I was in the fore part of the waggon; I said, what does the man mean by striking the horse; so did my fellow servant; he turn'd his horse round, and came and struck the fore horse again 2 or 3 times, and likewise the body horse; upon which words arose in the waggon.
Q. What sort of words?
Bayles. Spiteful words, as other people will say, if their horses are beat in the road; this was among the chairmen, I never spoke a word; the prisoner road back to the side of the waggon, and flourished his whip over the side of the waggon, whether he struck any body I can't say, I saw nobody struck.
Q. What do you mean by flourishing his whip, did he strike at them?
Bayles. I can't say he did, but he flourished his whip over amongst them; the deceased said, for your impudence, if I was out of the waggon, I should not begrudge to lay you on with my stick; he had a little white stick in his hand. Said the prisoner, what don't you like it, if you don't like that, you shall have this, and drew his hanger.
Q. What happened after this?
Bayles. The first thing that I heard; for I did not know that the man was out of the waggon, I heard the deceased call out, lord have mercy upon me, I have lost my hand, or he has cut my hand; I did not see a blow struck. I saw the sword drawn when the prisoner mentioned them words, if you don't like that you shall have this. My partner and one of the chairmen jump'd out of the waggon; I found the deceased was out of the waggon then; my fellow servant said to the chairman get down; the gentleman on horseback made towards my fellow servant, his horse did.
Q. Do you suppose the horse went of his own accord?
Bayles. I suppose he did not without being guided.
Q. Was the hanger then drawn?
Bayles. It was; my partner had nothing to defend himself with (it was wet, slappy weather) he stoop'd, and gathered up some dirt, there might be stones in it, but not very bigg, he hit both him and his horse; the horse being a spirited horse would not come nigh him; he immediately turn'd into a gallop, and they ran after him; I was in the waggon all the time; they ran after him, calling
Q. Whether when the prisoner first drew his hanger, was the deceased in or out of the waggon.
Bayles. I cannot say justly; for I did not know that he was out of the waggon.
Q. How soon after the deceased said I should not grudge laying you on with this stick, that you heard him call out of his hand?
Bayles. It was some small triffle of time, a very small time.
Counsel. Was it a minute or 2?
Bayles. I cannot say to a minute, I will not wrong my conscience.
Counsel. I think you say he struck the fore horse, just as he past him?
Bayles. As he past him, and the second time he came back and struck him.
Q. Where was the chaise then?
Bayles. That was gone by, and he was riding by as he struck him first.
Q. Had the chaise past your horses when he first struck the fore horse?
Bayles. I believe their horses might be gone by our horses; I think he was at the tail of their chaise, they were going on very fast.
Q. How near was your waggon to their chaise?
Bayles. I dare say there was room enough for any carriage to go between them and us.
William Shotter . I am Fellow servant to the last witness; on the 7th of May, about 8 o'clock in the evening, I was assisting in driving this waggon; we had been to Eaton with a load of leather; on this side Cranford bridge we overtook 4 chairmen, they ask'd us to ride as far as Hounslow; we told them they might get up, they got up; when we got within 200 yards on the other side the 10 mile stone, the gentleman on horseback, and a tilted cart, came and overtook us; they came along very fast, going along by us the gentleman took his whip in his left hand, and with the butt end of it hit the fore horse on his head, and our horses went out of the road.
Q. How near was he to the chaise marine then?
Shotter. He was by the side of it, that is what I call'd a tilted cart.
Q. Was the chaise gone past your waggon?
Shotter. It was past the body of the waggon, but not past the horses.
Q. How near was it to the waggon?
Shotter. There was room enough between us for another carriage; I said what is your fancy for hitting the horse?
Q. Whereabouts in the waggon was you?
Shotter. I was in the middle of the waggon, my partner set first, and I next him; the prisoner immediately turn'd round, and I believe he was 2 horses length before us; he turned back and hit the horse again once or twice; then he repeated his blow on the next horse, call'd the body horse; then he came to the body of the waggon, I heard his whip come against something, but I did not see the whip, it was like lashing; then the deceased shook his stick at him that he had in his hand; said he, if I could get at you I would not grudge to lay you on with this; said the prisoner, D - n you, don't you like it, if you don't you shall have this; speaking to the man that shook his stick.
Q. Did you observe any thing in the prisoner's hand at the time he mentioned that expression?
Shotter. He immediately clap'd his hand on his hanger, and drew it; there was something happened that I did not mention when before the coroner, which I have since recollected (that was this) as soon as he drew his hanger, he said, you are chairman, I know what you are, and where you ply. Then the chairmen wanted to get out of the waggon; I laid hold on his arm to prevent him getting out, fearing Mr. Roberts should do him a mischief, for he waved his sword about very much.
Q. What do you appehend he wanted to get out of the waggon for?
Shotter. I could not be a judge.
Q. Had he his stick in his hand then?
Shotter. I think he had, but I cannot be positive; when I let him go, I cannot be positive, whether it was by a jolt of the waggon, or whether by a fright, I look'd towards the fore horse, and turning my head back again he was out of the waggon; I saw him on the ground on his back in the dirt, I went to jump out of the waggon, thinking he was hurt; and the chairman, who was first examined, jumped out at the same time; before I could recover myself, I found Mr. Roberts and the deceased in a sort of a scuffle together.
Q. Describe as exactly as you can this scuffle.
Shotter. I saw the sword waver up and down 2 or 3 times.
Q. Did you see the stick in the deceased's hand then?
Shotter. I do not remember that I did; this was before the blow given.
Shotter. They were very nigh together, in that instant I heard him cry out, O, my hand, my hand, I have lost my hand, or something to that effect; then the prisoner rode towards me wavering his sword, I had nothing to defend myself with, but I gathered up dirt, and as he came to cut at me, I flung it up in his and his horse's face in this manner ( describing, by stooping with his belly near the ground, and with his hand casting up the dirt backwards (as he kept his backside to him) into the horse's face;) I believe it went both in his and his horse's face, but kept the horse off; then he rode off, and I and John Lomas follow'd him, calling stop thief.
Q. Did you take particular notice of the prisoner's whip?
Shotter. I can't say whether it was a long or a short whip; we overtook him at Hounslow, at justice Bulstrode's rails; he rode up to the rails, and struck at us, but especially at me, and said to me, D - n you come out, and I'll do for you; I told him to put up his sword and I would.
Q. Did he put his sword up?
Shotter. No, he did not; then he rode on pretty fast, and we ran a little way down the town after him; we lost sight of him, and came back to see how the deceased was; we went in at the Red Lion, there was a surgeon dressing the deceased; the deceased said he was almost spent with the loss of blood, there was a great deal of blood on the floor; I went out again; then Lomas said, he would give a guinea for a horse to pursue. I said to him, let you and I run forward to Brentford, it is my opinion we may overtake him, as somebody said he did not go very fast; said he, with all my heart; we ran along, and at the Rose and Crown door there the prisoner stood; whether he had his hanger drawn then I cannot say, I was the first man that came up to him, he stood up against one of the posts in the gateway; said I, that is the man, I'll sware to him; said he, come on, if you want me, what do you want with me, and drew his hanger, if it was not drawn before. Said I, put up your sword, for you have done mischief enough with it already, you have cut one man's hand off already. Said he, and God d - n you, I'll cut your's off, and made at me directly; I got into the road, and flung up dirt at him as before; then I made to our company; then there came up David Tooth, he look'd at him, and said, my lad come away, I know him, his name is Roberts, he lives with Mr. Secretary Pitt ; our waggon came up by that time; then the prisoner ran up with his sword drawn to my partner, and desired to know whose team it was; my partner ask'd me to come along home; I said, I was afraid to go home; then we went home with the waggon and the woman.
Q. At the time you had hold on the deceased's arm, that he insisted upon getting out of the waggon, what did he say to you?
Shotter. I don't remember he said any words, but be seem'd to struggle to get out of the waggon.
Q. Was Mr. Roberts near the deceased when he was all along upon the ground?
Shotter. No, I think he only got on his legs when the scuffle began; I think it was on the same spot.
Q. What became of the stick?
Shotter. I don't know, it was not left in the waggon, I never saw him with it after he was out; the thing was done in a minute's time.
Q. Was it a loaded or an empty waggon?
Shotter. It was an empty waggon, with 3 horses.
Q. When you saw Mr. Roberts in the town, was he in the custody of any body?
Shotter. No, he was not.
Q. When he said they were chairmen, and he knew were they ply'd, had he received any injury from them do you think?
Shotter. There were only bad words, which there were on both sides, and I think the prisoner gave as bad as he received.
William Fregley . I am a surgeon and apothecary, and live at Hounslow; I was sent for to attend the deceased at the Red Lion; I remember it was the day after the installation; when I came there, there was a person scraping of lint, I look'd upon to be a surgeon, I thought then I had nothing to do; I found the man standing in the gateway; I said, why are you here; he said, I can't stand no where else, I have fowl'd my breeches; the wound seem'd to me to be cut quite through the bone; the bleeding was stop'd by the other person, I had nothing to do but to secure it will they got him to the hospital.
Q. From the experience you have, do you or do you not apprehend it might be the death of the person?
Frogley. Yes, it might; I never saw him since that.
John Riddle . I saw the deceased on the morning of the 8th of May, after he came to town, at his own house, he had lost a great deal of blood, and was in a great deal of pain; I was under the apprehension that he would bleed to death; I let him alone for some days to prevent a farther effusion; the wound was cross the wrist, the bone and artery were both divided; I attended him constantly till the time of his death, which was on the 18th of the same month; at last he was taken all of a sudden, with a violent fever, and that carried him off.
Q. What do you look upon to be the occasion of his death?
Riddle. I look upon it, his death was the consequence of the wound.
Q. From the situation of the wound, whether it was possible, that a blow should be given while the deceased was holding up his hand in a defensive way?
Riddle. I apprehend the deceased must have been in an offensive situation, to have received the wound in that place as it appear'd; had the hand been held up, and the cut struck downwards, the cut would have went towards the shoulder; but it appears to me, the hand was not up, for the cut went a slant towards the fingers.
Mr. Tompkins. I was desired by Mr. Roberts the prisoner to attend the deceased, which I did, along with Mr. Riddle, the whole time; he went on in a favourable manner some time, but at last a violent fever came on, and notwithstanding all the efforts made use of, the fever carry'd him off.
Q. What do you think was the cause of his death?
Tompkins. The fever was occasioned by the wound, I have no doubt of that, and he died of that fever.
Mr. Pickford. I am an apothecary.
Q. What do you conceive to be the cause of the deceased's death?
Pickford. I believe the cause of his death was a fever, proceeding by the wound.
My Lord, it is my misfortune to appear at this bar, but it is great comfort to me, that I feel myself innocent of the crime I am charg'd with; no one is more heartily concern'd for the accident which befell the deceased than I am; but he, poor man, and his companions, were the occasion of its all that know me can testify, that I never was addicted to quarrelling, a revengeful temper is no part of my character; and as to any malice towards the unhappy deceased, I never saw him before in my life; the truth my Lord is, that the provocations I received were what no man besides could have borne with. I wish, my Lord, I could; not for my own sake only, but for the sake of the poor deceased. Notwithstanding, my Lord, what is sworn by some of the witnesses, I assure your Lordship, that I never drew my hanger till I had been assaulted, and pelted at; nor us'd it, till the deceased himself had even attempted to catch hold of my bridle; the blows I received from the deceased upon my shoulder was so great and painful, that the effects of it were visible for 14 days after, and the several other blows which I afterwards received from his companions, inflam'd me, and made me insensible of what I did; sorry I am, my Lord, for it's consequences, but I depend upon the justice of this honourable court for my acquittal.
For the Prisoner.
Q. What is your imploy?
Cooper. I work at the farming business; I drove the chaise marine on the 7th of May; he was along with me, he was guide; there were a great many valuable things in the chaise, jewels and things of great value; we were on Hounslow Heath, coming up to this waggon, very near the town; there were several chairman in the waggon, they were going along the same tract that I was; I got out to pass them on the right hand; I was sitting on the seat to drive, and Mrs. Matthews along with me; I was driving fu ll trot; they were walking very slow; just as I got over right them they whipp'd and cut their horses, and I thought they had a mind to drive against me; their horses came along full trot, rather faster than I; with that Mr. Roberts rode in between, and with his whip he wore their horses that I got past them; he just bore them that they did not come against me, after I was got by, then they drove up a 2d time, but rather faster then they did the first, then Mr. Roberts rode along against their horses again, and held his whip, and wore them away to the left again.
Q. What words were made use of the 1st time?
Cooper. There were no words made use of the 1st time; after they came the 2d time, they seem'd
Q. How near were they then to the waggon?
Cooper. They were sideway rather before me, they were getting ground of me, I believe the body of the waggon was about equal with my chaise marine, or rather behind, but that I cannot say, their horses kept on, and got some distance before me, but they were on the other side of the way; with that I heard several words from the chairmen, that is, the found of them, what they were I could not understand, upon the account of the waggon making such a noise, and also my chaise marine. Mr. Roberts had a short hand whip, with a short lash; one of the chairmen had a white stick, he shook his stick very much towards Mr. Roberts.
Q. Was the waggon before you or behind at that time?
Cooper. When I got clear of him, it was before me at first, and it was before me when he shook his stick; I saw him make 2 or 3 attempts to get out of the waggon; I kept on my old pace as at first, and got by, and saw no more, I sat under a cover, so that I could not well see them when behind me. I stopt at Hounslow, Mr. Roberts overtook me as I was going along, I believe before I came to the inn where I rested my horses, the same inn where he was taken up at; I did not know then what accident had happened; soon after came the people with the waggon, then I heard how it was, I lay there that night.
Q. Was not the road broad enough for you to have past without any interruption at all?
Q. How came that into your fancy, to think the waggoner whipp'd their horses intending to cross the way upon you?
Cooper. I heard them whip and speak, as if seemingly they bore up to me.
Q. Did you see them whip?
Cooper. No; I sware to the found, it was the lash of a whip, I did not know who it was, but I perceived the horses bore up to me.
Q. What did the men say?
Cooper. They said bite and gee to their horses; and I saw Mr. Roberts come to put them out of my way.
Q. Where were the waggoners at that time?
Cooper. They were in the waggon when I first saw them, and I never saw them out of the waggon.
Q. Did they overtake you a second time?
Cooper. They got rather before me, their sore horse was rather before mine.
Q. Did you keep on?
Cooper. I did.
Q. How big was the stick as the man shook at Mr. Roberts?
Cooper. It appeared to me to be bigger than my finger.
Q. Whereabouts was Mr. Roberts when he shook his stick?
Cooper. He was about half a dozen yards behind the waggon then.
Mary Matthews . I live at the Bath, I had been at the installation; I was on the seat with the last witness on the chaise marine; at this time on Hounslow Heath we saw a waggon before us, there were people in it, we were going a trot; when we came nearer them, they went a good deal faster, and we past by them; after that the waggon came a very fast pace on one side us, and indeavoured to cross the road, to get into the track before the chaise, there horses went quite cross; upon which Mr. Roberts came up between the carriages, and with his whip indeavoured to keep the waggon horses off; upon that I heard the men in the waggon make use of very loud words, and swearing, and I believe threatened the prisoner, and the chairmen seem'd to me to be rising up; our carriage still kept on, and left them behind, so that I know nothing as to the blows; when we were got home, Mr. Roberts complain'd very much of his arm; he show'd me a mark on his left shoulder, it was very red, and look'd to me to be swell'd; that morning he said he could not use his arm, and desired me to buckle his stock.
Q. Had he complained of it before?
M. Matthews. I never heard him complain of it before.
Q. Do you imagine it was necessary for him to do what he did to the waggon horses?
M. Matthews. I do, or else they would have driven against us, and turn the chaise over, or hurt us, our chaise could not bare no more to the right, and they pressing still upon us.
Q. Was you by when the things were put in the chaise marine?
M. Matthews. I was; there were strong boxes in them.
Q. Did they speak to the horses?
Moses. They said to their horses come bether; and I perceiv'd them to whip them; the waggon horses cross'd the other horses, as the cart was on the right hand side the waggon.
Q. How near was the cart to the road side?
Moses. I can't say that; I believe it was as close as it could be; then Mr. Roberts put his whip again to the horses to keep them from coming upon the cart; he was between the horses in the cart and the horses in the waggon; then the waggon got by the cart, they were going faster than the cart horses; I saw a chairman in the waggon shaking his stick at Mr. Roberts as he past by; Mr. Roberts kept pace with the cart on the left side of the cart. The next thing I observed, was the waggon went a little flower, and the cart overtook them; then they came along side, I saw the chairman making a stroke at Mr. Roberts: I can't tell whether it hit him or not; he made an offer 2 or 3 times after that, but Mr. Roberts gave way to him, and kept a little farther from him; the next thing I observ'd was the chairman came out of the waggon.
Q. Before you come to that, did you see Mr. Roberts go towards the horses once or twice?
Moses. I did not observe it but once, that was the first time the waggon past them; but I did not then observe him to strike the horses; the chairman that came out of the waggon had a stick in his hand; Mr. Roberts was then rather behind the waggon; the chairman jump'd out after him, the man in a white coat; then he got rather before Mr. Roberts, and got up gravel, and throw'd it against the horse's head; the horse turn'd about, at that time the chairman was behind the horse; the horse turn'd about and fac'd the chairman; at this time all the chairmen were on the ground, throwing things at the horse, all were about the prisoner throwing at him, and the man with the stick laying upon him, and very often gave him and the horse several blows. Mr. Roberts strove to get his horse from among them to get after the chaise, but could not, for which way soever he went to go they met him, and throw'd gravel in his horse's face, I saw the chairman strike him several times with his stick.
Q. Did you see the hanger drawn?
Moses. I did not; I thought it was a stick.
Q. Did you hear the man that is dead call out, he has cut my arm?
Moses. No, I did not.
Q Did you see the chairman fall down?
Moses. No, and if he had I should have seen it; neither did I know that he was cut till I came to Hounslow, which was in about a quarter of an hour; then there were a great mob there; and I was told a chairman was cut; there was a chairman wanted to get one of our men's hangers out of his hand; and said, give it me, and I'll go into the room and cut the rogue's head off: and another said to another chairman, if you had done as much as I did, we wou'd have had him off his horse, and his brains about the road before then.
Q. Where was the waggoner at the time you heard him calling to his horses?
Moses. He was in the fore part of the waggon, it was a man in a white coat that whipp'd the horses along.
Q. Where was the deceased when he made these offers at the prisoner?
Moses. He was in the waggon, standing towards the middle of it, it was with a good large stick.
Q. Did you see the deceased get out of the waggon?
Moses. I did; and it was not above 4 or 5 minutes after that he fell to striking the prisoner.
Q. Did you see the prisoner with his hanger make a cut at any body in the waggon?
Moses. No, I did not; I saw him lay about him, but with what I know not.
Daniel Bready . I live at Isleworth, and sell fish and fruit about in the neighbourhood. On the 7th of May last, about 8 o'clock, I saw a man in a blue coat, a chairman, jump out of this waggon, and made a run at a man on horseback, and struck at him twice with a stick or cane, I am not a judge which; I was within about 50 or 60 yards when he began, and I went along nearer and nearer.
Q. Did the blows reach the man on horseback?
Bready. He could not miss hitting him, without he defended himself. I saw also a man in a white coat stoop down, gathering gravel and dirt,
Q. Did you hear the man that is dead cry out?
Bready. No, I did not; I was not near enough.
Q. Did you see him fall?
Bready. No. I did not; I heard a man say stop the man, for he has cut a man's arm off.
Q. How long after the dirt was thrown?
Bready. They were throwing dirt at the same time; I saw the man with the stick strike several times after the dirt was throwing, I am sure of that.
Q. Did you see a soldier on the road at the time?
Bready. No, I saw no soldier only in the town of Hounslow.
Q. Did you see the chairman fall at jumping out of the waggon?
Bready. I saw his foot slip at jumping out, but he recover'd himself, and made a blow at the man on horseback.
Q. Whereabouts was that man on horseback when the chairman ran up to him?
Bready. He was about the 2d horse in the waggon at that time.
Q. Had the man on horseback any instrument in his hand?
Bready. I can't tell. I did not see any thing in his hand, his back was towards me, and I did not observe, I had a tub of salmon on my head, and for that reason I kept out of the mob; the time that the chairman ran at him he was a naked man; I believe he gave his horse a spur and rode away; he was oblig'd to ride away, there were 5 or 6 of them.
Q. How long was all this about after the man got out of the waggon?
Bready. Not a great while.
Q. Did you not see a hanger?
Bready. I saw a hanger in his hand when he set off.
Q. Was it drawn?
Bready. It was, but I did not see him strike at any body.
Q. Where was you going?
Bready. I was going from Hounslow to a gentleman's house.
C. for prisoner. This witness says he saw no soldier. This same soldier was examined by the prosecutors themselves the next morning before a justice of peace, and the deposition was return'd.
The deposition produced.
Moses. It was.
Wm Marsden . I live at Mr. Fielding's; I remember that soldier being examin'd before justice Fielding; the examination was return'd; here this is it. There was an information made before the justice against the waggoners, for riding in their waggon, and not having a driver; the waggoners were convicted upon the evidence of Mr. Roberts, and this soldier.
Q. Was this examination only relative to that of the riding in the waggon to drive?
Marsden. The information was to take the truth of every thing; every thing he had to say was taken; we did not know but the man might die that had been cut (which he did afterwards) so it was taken to the whole of all he had to say.
It is read to this purport.
That on wednesday last, about 8 in the evening, he was taking a walk, upon Hounslow Heath; he observed a tilted cart and waggon driving towards London; that he saw the person then present (Mr. Roberts) accompanying the said cart on horseback; that he observed, the said waggon to be drove improperly against the said tilted cart; and that Mr. Roberts endeavour'd to drive the said horses on one side the road in order that the said tilted cart might have a free passage; that there were in the said waggon several chairmen, who, after he had so endeavour'd to drive the said waggon on one side the road, shook their sticks at the said Mr. Roberts; and that he saw nothing more pass.
Stafford Spencer . I am one of his majesty's messengers; I was at Mr. Secretary Pitt 's on the 8th of May, between 10 and 10; Mr. Roberts came in from Hounslow; I went to take hold of him by the hand, he said, for God's sake Spencer don't touch my hand, I am in such violent pain, by a hurt that I received on my shoulder, that I cannot bare touching; he said, he had been abused by some chairmen at Hounslow.
Q. How long have you known him?
Spencer. I have known him above 3 years, and most days I have seen him; I never knew a better temper'd man, every body that comes to the house have civil, genteel treatment from him; I believe he must have had some very bad treatment, to do an ill-natur'd thing to any man.
John Monty . I am a messenger; I have known him upwards of 3 years; I saw him on the 13th of May; then I saw a bruise on the upper part of his arm, it appeared very black and much bruised; as to his character, I never-heard a man have a better in my life; he is look'd upon to be as good-natured, inoffensive a man, as any in the world; I have had occasion to be, in his company many times, I never saw him inclin'd to quarrel in my life.
Mr. Wilbear. I am steward to Mr. Secretary Pitt , and live in the family; I have known Mr. Roberts 5 years and 7 months; he has liv'd with my lady Esther and Mr. Pitt 13 or 14 years; he is a good natured, humane man, far from out-rages or cruelty, willing to make up breaches. On the 15th of May he was showing his arm to some of the servants, I saw it; there was a stroke 3 quarters of an inch wide, it was between 4 and 5 inches in length, like the stroke of a stick, of a dirty blackish yellow cast; it look'd like a bruise worn out, it look'd like the mark of a bruise given about a week before.
The whip brought into Court; a common hand whip, with a straight lash, about 6 inches from the end of the whip, depos'd too by Cooper to be the same that Roberts had on the 7th of May.
Dr. Hunter. I have known Mr. Roberts about 3 or 4 years; his behaviour in the family was really civil, I have the best authority for saying it, a man extremely civil and obliging. I saw the body of the deceased open on the coroner's inquest.
Q. Could that wound be received when the man was acting on the defensive?
Hunter. I imagine it is impossible; it was just as much cut on the outside as the inside, and cut slanting towards the fingers; it could not be cut as his hand was up, for if so, it would have been slanting towards his body, it must be while his hand was down, or holding the horse's bridle.
Q. Supposing a man was raising his hand, and a blow was to come on that sort, would it not depend much on the direction of the weapon, and the force of the blow, to beat down the arm, and carry it before it.
Dr. Hunter. When a man is striking at another, he has his face towards him, it must cut him in the direction towards his body, and not towards his fingers.
Elizabeth Sparry . I live in Mr. Pitt's family, 18 years or better, with my Lady Esther, and with Mr. Roberts between 14 and 15 years of that time: when he came into the family first he was my Lady Esther's footman; but, upon his being a diligent servant, he was remov'd to be groom of the chamber; he was always ready to do every good office that was in his power, a civil good-natur'd man, I never knew him quarrelsome, or any instances of cruelty by him.
Mr. Renoe. I am butler to Mr. Pitt, Mr. Roberts complained of a violent blow he had received at his coming back at that time; I saw the bruise 2 or 3 days after, it appeared blue, black, green and yellow; it was from his shoulder half way down to his elbow; it appeared to be a violent bruise. I have liv'd with him in the family almost 4 years; he is a very humane, good-natur'd man, very serviseable to any one that wants his assistance, far from that of a cruel or passionate man.
Francis Williams . Who had known him from a child. Edward Baxton 28 years. Moses Davis from a child. John Matthews 6 or 7 years. Jos. Stevens 40 years. William Harris 12 years. Edward Bishop 20 years. 2 Mr. Paterson's, one 3 years, the other 5 or 6. Mr. Campion 5 years, and 7 or 8 months. 2 Mr. Howell's, one 6 or 7, the other 12 or 13 years. Mr. Linnel 14 or 15 years. Mr. King 6 or 7 years. Mr. Squib 14 years. Mr. Crisp about 5 years. Mr. Richardson between 6 or 7 years. Mr. Johnson between 6 and 7 years. Mr. Neild between 13 and 14 years. Mr. Sheldon about 14 years. 2 Mr. Jones's, one 13 or 14 years, the other about 9. Mr. Bangham about 8 years. Mr. Price between 15 and 20 years. Mr. Hawkins between 14 and 15 years. Mr. Dawson 15 years. Mr. Wallis about 5 years. Mr. Featherstone almost 2 years. Mr. Summer 7 years. Mr. Holmer 7 years. Mr. Jacket almost 6 years. Mr. Ross 5 or 6 years; and Mr. Creswell, who all depos'd him to be a good natured, peaceable, inoffensive man, not inclinable to passion, quarrelling, or cruelty, but ready to make up breaches where in his power.
Counsel for prisoner. We have, I believe, 100 witnesses more to character if needful to call them.
Court. No man's character was ever better established.
Guilty of manslaughter .
William Kyle , June 19 . ++
William Kyle , I am a bricklayer ; I can only say I lost the things mentioned out of my lodgings when I was out I went out into the street after I came home, and met Ann Hackney ; she told me she had been and lock'd the thief in a room, and gave me the key of the room; but when I came to the room, as she directed, there was nobody in it.
Thomas Howard . The prosecutor lodges in my house; I was not at home at the time the things were lost; all that I know is, I made the 2 coats, one for the prosecutor, and the other for Isaac Jackson , which the prosecutor had in his care ( produced in court, depos'd to by prosecutor)
Q. to Howard. Did you know the prisoner before?
Howard. She was helping a lodger (the day before the things were miss'd) that lives in my house, up one pair of stairs.
Ann Hackney . I was lately got acquainted with a woman that lived in Black Horse alley, who was landlady to the prisoner at the bar; I wanted a woman to wash for me, so I had the prisoner; she wash'd very clean, she said, and pleaded a deal of honesty. On the 19th of June I was going to fetch a pennyworth of chips, and met the prisoner and Mrs. Mill together; I no sooner got home, but I met the prisoner coming down stairs; I said, what do you do up them stairs; she said, she thought it was my husband that came in, and she went up there to hide herself; she had the cloaths mentioned in the indictment in her hand; said I, why do not you come into the room; she went away.
Q. Why was she afraid of your husband?
A. Hackney. That is what I wanted to know; I went to Mrs. Howard, and ask'd her if her garret door was lock'd; and told her the woman was come down, and gone out with an apron full of cloaths; and said, I had taken hold of one of the button holes; I told her it was the woman that was with me yesterday; she went up and came down again, and said the cloaths were all gone. I ran to 2 pawnbrokers, and bid them stop such things if they should be brought; and went to Mrs. Hill's room, where I found the prisoner.
Q. Where does Mrs. Hill live?
A. Hackney. In Seacoal lane; the prisoner had the cloaths in her lap; I said, you have broke open our lodger's door, and taken away his cloaths; I ran out, and the key was in the door, and lock'd them all 3 in together, and carried the key, and gave it the prosecutor, when I met him, and told him where the prisoner and cloaths were; when we came there they were all got out, and had left the shoes on Mrs. Hill's table, and thrown the cloaths out upon the stairs.
Sarah Hill. The prisoner is a stranger to me, she came up into my room along with Mrs. Willson, who was formerly a great croney of Mrs. Hackney's; the prisoner had sugar and butter in her hand, and a bundle in her apron, as full as it could hold; I never saw the cloaths till in Mr. Howard's hand. Mrs. Hackney never saw what was in her lap, she only pull'd her apron a little up. I heard the prisoner ask Mrs. Willson to take the cloaths, and go and make 3 l. on them. Elizabeth Willson ask'd whose, cloaths they were; she said, they were a watchmaker's, but what his name was I did not take notice; I said, has any body been in trouble; the prisoner said, yes; it was at a cock-fighting.
Q. Was you before the Alderman;
S. Hil. I was; the prisoner was very fuddled, and said nothing.
Q. to A. Hackney. Was you before the Alderman?
A. Hackney. I was.
Q. Did you hear the prisoner say any thing?
A. Hackney. I did; she had a very saucy excuse.
Q. Did you see the cloaths in the prisoner's lap in Hill's house?
A. Hackney. I did; I saw some part of the coat and waistcoat.
I had been at work on the Tuesday, and on the Wednesday I was to go again; I went, and she gave me these cloaths to make money of; and I carried them to Mrs. Willson's.
S. Hill. A. Hackney met this woman, the prisoner, in the street, and gave her a hat out of her hand; and said, are you coming to our house; and said, if she did not come then she might as well stay away; and in less than 10 minutes this robbery was done.
A. Hackney. The prisoner gave me a hatt out of her hand.
Jer. Wakefield Harcourt , was indicted for stealing one coat, 3 waistcoat, value 20 s. one stuff gown, value 20 s. 4 shirts, 40 s. 2 silver spoons, 5 s. 1 silver hilted sword, value 40 s. and 1 table cloth, the property of Geo Walsh , Esq ; in his Dwelling-house July 1 . ++
General Walsh. I lost the goods mentioned in the indictment, I don't know who took them.
Q. from prisoner. Do you know Mrs. Harcourt?
Gen Walsh. Yes.
Q. from prisoner. In what capacity does she live in your house?
Gen. Walsh. She was my house-keeper.
Prisoner. You know she is my lawful wife; she delivered those things to me, and desired me to pledge them for so much money; this is a contrivance to deprive me of my liberty.
235. (M.) William Wake was indicted for stealing one copper pot and cover, value 6 s. one brass pot and cover, value 5 s. one stew pan, value 2 s. two pewter plates, value 1 s. and five wooden trenchers, value 4 d. the property of Jos Lee , Mar. 10 . ++
See the Trial of The Allen and Fra. Wardley, No. 175 and 176, in the last Sessions papers, where an accomplice was tried for the same.
Ann Christopher . I live at Lanehouse , my husband's name is William; the prisoner is between 13 and 14 years of age, we took him apprentice out of the workhouse, to go on errands and draw beer. We keep an alehouse , he has often run away, the last time was on the 29th of May; his mother lock'd him up, and brought him again; I shut him up in the garret till his master came from church. I went to fetch him down to give him some victuals, and he was gone, he had broke through an empty house; he was brought to me by Mr. Neal the next day; then I had miss'd some halfpence; I charg'd him with taking them; he confess'd he went out of that empty house in the night, and round a stack of chimnies, and into our fore garret, then down into my parlour, and broke a cupboard open, and took out 7 s. in halfpence; we found them upon him; this was the 9th or 10th time of his eloping in this manner.
Mr. Neal. On the 30th of May I was walking from Bow, I met the boy at the bar in the fields, and knowing his manner of behaviour, took him back to his mistress.
238. (L.) Pierce Dempsay was indicted, for that he, by false pretences, did obtain 3 s. 6 d. into his custody, the property of John Cheshire , with intent to cheat and defraud him of the same , July 8 . ++
Wm Priest . I am clerk to the court of request; the prisoner came to me on the 8th of July, and demanded money in the name of John Cheshire ; he told me that was his name; I told him there was 2 s. paid into court.
Q. What was the whole debt?
Priest. That was 37 s. he made his mark to a receipt I wrote in the book, and he took the money out, he had 3 s. 6 d. which were 2 payments. John Cheshire came afterwards and desir'd to have the money out. I told him I had deliver'd out 2 payments; he said, he never receiv'd any out of the court; then we found the prisoner out, and he
John Cheshire . I had a demand upon one William London for 1 l. 17 s. 5 d. he was to pay the debt in at so much per week, but I never receiv'd any. I am acquainted very well with the prisoner, he is a near neighbour to me; he must come at the knowledge of this by my mother's speaking of it, for I had not told him.
His mother sent me for it.
Prosecutor. I am certain she never did.
For the prisoner.
Hen. Heathcote. I keep an inn; the prisoner had lived with me 3 different times. The 2d of June the prosecutrix, that has lived in my family a long while, missed 16 guineas; upon enquiring who had taken it the same day, the prisoner went out, and did not return till we found her in Old street.
Eleanor Sheldon . The prisoner went away at half an hour past 4 in the afternoon, and we found her in Old street the next morning. She was taken before a magistrate; there she own'd she had taken my 16 guineas, which I had miss'd; we found upon her 11 guineas, and 3 s. which she acknowledged to be my property, I had that again.
Prisoner's defence. I am not guilty.
Matthew Smith . On the 24th of May last I had been to see a relation in Russel court; in returning back, I stopp'd in Covent Garden, with a man whom I deal with for fruit; I went down Henrietta street, it being a fine moon-light night, I went in order to call upon a relation in King street, near the Seven Dials, nam'd Williams; I went up Bedford-street, but finding it full late, did not call. I cross'd Long Acre, and thro' a court into Hart street ; and mistaking my way, went up a court in order to go through, I found it was no throughfare; I observed the prisoner to follow me; when I found my mistake, I said this is no thoroughfare; he came up to me, and pull'd my watch out of my pocket; I collar'd him; he struck me behind my ear, I saw my watch in his hand; he ran down the court; I call'd watch; he struck me on the face with my watch, and broke the glass against my jaw bone. Soon after he was seiz'd by a soldier; somebody came up and said my face was all bloody; I describ'd the watch, and soon after it was pick'd up by a person now in court, with the glass broke; then the prisoner said, now you have found your watch, have you any thing farther to say to me: said I, as I have got my watch you may go and be d - d; upon which he said, then I charge the watch with you. I was bail'd out on the monday morning, I went to Mr. Fielding's with him. At the justice's, the prisoner first said I was with a woman, and miss'd my watch; and he was going by at the corner of the alley, and I charg'd him with taking it, and that he never was in the court, and that he never had it.
Q. from prisoner. Whether, when we were in the court, he did not put his hand in my breeches, and lay hold of my private parts?
Smith. No, I did not; I never heard him speak a word till after he had struck me with my watch; then he said either blast or d - n my eyes.
Q. from prisoner. Whether I did not lay hold of his collar upon his attemping to put his hand into my breeches, and he did not immediately beg I'd not use him ill, and say I'll down on my knees, and hold his hands up, and take his watch out of his pocket, and say, I'll make you a present of this, as I have no money; and I took the watch and struck it at him.
Smith. No, upon my oath this is not true; he took my watch out of my pocket, and with the force broke the stone out of the seal; I am not at all surpriz'd at this, there was a chairman came and told my fellow servant, since he has been in confinement, that the prisoner said, I offer'd him 7 s. or 7 s. and 6 d. I offer'd him no money, nor nothing like it.
Q. Where do you live?
Smith. I have liv'd with my Lord Falmouth 14 years.
Norwood Francis Ward. About half an hour after 11 that night I was walking up Bow street; just as I got on the top of Bow street I heard the cry watch; I look'd, and saw a scuffle, and some people going that way, and a soldier stopp'd the prisoner; I went up; the prosecutor said the prisoner had robb'd him; the prisoner seem'd to be running towards me before he was stopp'd; the watchman came, and they charg'd the watch with him. Mr. Smith said, the prisoner had stole his watch; the prisoner desired to be search'd; I still kept walking up Hart street; the people said, if he has it not, perhaps he has thrown it away; a gentlewoman, named Finney, took a candle, and look'd on the ground, and found the watch on the ground where the prisoner was taken.
Q. Did the prisoner charge the prosecutor with having done any thing?
Ward. No; he did not charge him with any thing; after the watch was found, the people ask'd him, whether he had any thing more to do with the prisoner; he said, no; as I have got my watch, let him go and be d - d. Then, by desire of some people present, the prisoner said, then I charge you for the scandal; and they both went away to the roundhouse together.
Q. What were the words the prisoner made use of when he charg'd him?
Ward. Somebody there said; now if I was in your place, I would charge the watch with him; said he, so I will.
Q. What for?
Ward. It appear'd to me, for the scandal for saying he had taken the watch.
Q. Did you go with them to the roundhouse?
Ward. I did.
Q. Did the prisoner charge the prosecutor there with any thing, with some attempt upon him?
Ward. No, not in the least.
Q. How long was you at the watchhouse?
Ward. I was there several hours.
Q. from prisoner. Whether I could not have made my escape from the prosecutor before the watchman came u p.
Ward. I don't know that.
Q. from prisoner. Whether the prosecutor did not charge me with robbing him of half a guinea?
Prosecutor. I never charg'd him with taking any thing but my watch; I believe the prisoner once did get out of my hands, but I had hold on the skirt of his coat, when the watchman came and took him in charge.
Mrs. Finney. I keep a public house in Hart street; on saturday the 24th of May, about half an hour after 11 o'clock at night, I heard watch call'd; I ran out, and saw a soldier had the prisoner by the collar; the watchman came and took hold of him; and the prosecutor charg'd the watch with him, saying, he had stole his watch. I said to the watchman let me have your lanthorn and look about; he gave the lanthorn to the prosecutor, and I went in and took a candle, and looking lower down, just where the prisoner was taken by the soldier, there I found the watch in the kennel. Mr. Smith, before I found it, said, it was a gold watch, with a shagreen case, and the glass was broke by striking him in the face (and it was such a watch) Mr. Smith had a cut in his face; the prisoner ask'd Mr. Smith, if he had any thing more to do with him; Mr. Smith made a little pause; and said, as I have my watch, go about your business and be d - d; there was some people standing by said young man, why don't you charge the watch with him; then he did.
Q. Did you hear the prisoner charge the prosecutor with any thing?
Mrs. Finney. No, I did not; he did not charge him with any thing; I was in new prison after that to see the prisoner; he there said he never saw Mr. Smith before, nor never mentioned Mr. Smith's doing any thing to him.
Edmund Nicholson . I am a watchman; I was calling the half hour in Hart street, I heard the cry watch, watch, stop, stop; I ran, and saw a soldier had the prisoner in custody; I ask'd what was the matter; the prosecutor said, I charge you with this man, he has pick'd my pocket of my gold watch; I took hold of him; I said to the gentleman, do you know where you lost your watch; he said, somewhere hereabouts; in 3 or 4 minutes the watch was found; then the prisoner wanted to go; and ask'd the gentleman if he had any farther charge against him; the gentleman would have forgiven him, when I let him go; then he said, I charge you with this gentleman, for a scandal in detaining of him; then I said, gentlemen, if you please to go to the roundhouse; so they went together.
Nichols. No, I did not; his charge was for a scandal about detaining him for the watch.
Q. Was Mr. Smith in liquor;
Nichols. He was very sober, and behav'd very handsomely.
Q. Was the prisoner sober?
Nichols. He was.
Q. from prisoner. Did you not hear Mr. Smith say he had lost half a guinea.
Nichols. No, I did not.
Samuel Clark . I was constable of the night; I was in the watchhouse when the prosecutor and prisoner where brought in; they charg'd each other; the prosecutor charg'd the prisoner with stealing his watch, and the prisoner charg'd him with stopping of him, and charging him with stealing of it.
Q. How long was you at the watchhouse that night?
Clark. I was there till about 4 o'clock; they were brought in about 12.
Q. Did the prisoner in that time say any thing of the prosecutor having behav'd indecently to him?
Clark. No, not a word.
Q. Did you hear the prosecutor say he had lost half a guinea?
Clark. No. (the watch produc'd, and depos'd to by prosecutor)
Mrs. Finney. This is the watch which I pick'd up that night, near where the prisoner had stood.
The prosecutor met me facing Henrietta street, at the lower end of Russel court, and look'd very hard at me; he stood up as I past by, and touch'd my shoulder, he stood like if he was making water; I past him, he followed me, and look'd very hard at me; he came and pull'd me by the sleeve, and said it was a fine night; yes, sir, said I, it is; he said, will you take a walk this way; I could not imagine what he meant; but willing to know what he wanted, I turn'd back, and went up into Hart street; he took hold of my arm, and carried me up to the 7 Dials, through several courts and passages; after which he took me up this court, in Hart street (it is not a thoroughfare) where he made an attempt to lay hold on my private parts, and was going to unbutton my breeches, in order to put his hand in; then I struck him; he begg'd I would not make a noise, nor use him ill, and he would make me a present of any thing he had about him; I said I wanted nothing of him, but call'd him villain and scoundrel for using me so, as he had; I said, I would use him ill, and beat him; upon which he said, I'll down on my knees to you if you will not use me ill; you dog. I said, I'll have nothing of you; he put his watch into my hand, and said it was a gold one, and that he had no money; he would make me a present of that; I struck him with the watch immediately; upon which the watch fell; as soon as I struck him he call'd watch, watch, and a man came up who was a soldier, and laid hold of me; then the watchman, and several of the neighbours got round me; he said, he had lost his watch, the watch was found about 20 yards from where I was standing. I said, have you any thing more to say to me; he said, no; then I said, you scoundrel, I charge you for detaining me from my business; then we went to the watchhouse together.
241. (M.) Margaret, wife of - Smith, otherwise Margaret Smith , widow, was indicted for stealing 2 silver tea spoons, value 2 s. and one pewter table spoon, value 1 d. the property of William Gore , July 2 . ||
242. (M.) Ann Edgely , otherwise Hambleton , spinster , was indicted for stealing one linnen shift, value 4 s. the property of Elizabeth Virthey , spinster , 5 linnen caps, 2 linnen handkerchiefs, one linnen apron, the property of Sarah Read , spinster , and 29 s. and 6 d. the money of Sarah Austin , spinster , May 29 . ++
Clementia Turner . I am a laundress; the prisoner at the bar iron'd for me; I believe I lost every week, for about 6 months, some trifle or another of linnen. I wash'd for Elizabeth Virthey and Sarah Reed ; on the 29th of May the prisoner came at 6 in the morning, and took an opportunity to go up stairs, in the room where Sarah Austin my maid lay, and took 1 l. 9 s. 6 d. her property. The prisoner endeavoured to drive it into all our heads (after the money was missing) that a young man that lodg'd in our house had taken it; he was taken up, and before justice Wright she insisted upon it he had it; but upon her being ask'd about it, she owned she had taken it herself out of the maid's drawer; she own'd to that, and to the taking 3 caps, before the justice. I found one handkerchief,
Sarah Austin . I am servant to Mrs. Turner; I lost 1 l. 9 s. 6 d. the prisoner at the bar, upon being charged with taking it, own'd she had taken it; I also heard her own to the taking 3 caps; I saw 3 caps and an apron found in her lodgings. My money was taken from out of the fore parlour where I lie.
The prisoner said nothing in her defence.
The trials being ended, the court proceeded to give judgment as follows:
Transportation for seven years 14.
Peirce Dempsay, Ann Carrall , Mary Flanders , Moses Birch , Ann Ward , John Wright , Margaret Smith , Sarah Whiteman, Patrick Donnelly , Catherine Lindsey, Ann Edgely , otherwise Hambleton, Deborah Hughes, and William Davis .
To be whipped 2.
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