JOEL JOSEPH, ISAAC SOLOMON, Theft > pocketpicking, 6th June 1810.

Reference Number: t18100606-89
Offence: Theft > pocketpicking
Verdict: Guilty; Guilty
Punishment: Transportation

491. JOEL JOSEPH and ISAAC SOLOMON were indicted for feloniously stealing, on the 17th of April , from the person of Thomas Dodd , a pocket book, value 4 s. a thirty pound bank note, a five pound bank note, a two pound bank note, three one pound bank notes, and a warrant for the payment of fifty-six pound his property.

THOMAS DODD . I live at Eltham, I am agent for Crowley Millington, and Co. Ironmongers, at Greenwich.

Q. On the 17th of April, did you lose any pocket book and bank notes - A. I did, I had in my pocket book a thirty pound note, a five pound note, a two pound and three or four one's, bank of England notes.

Q. What was the last part of the day that you were conscious that you had your pocket book and notes about you - A. About one o'clock I was at Greenwich, I then came up to town, and coming up Palace-yard , there was a crowd, it was the meeting of the inhabitants of Westminster, I had the curiosity to see what was going forward. I got to Palace-yard, a little after two o'clock, I stood outside, I did not go in the crowd.

Q. Can you say whether you saw either of the prisoner's near you - A. No.

Q. Did you perceive that your pocket book went from you while you where in Palace-yard - A. No, I missed it while I was in Palace-yard. In about twenty minutes, I had a friend Mr. Good, with me, I told my friend that I had much property in it, and among the property there was a check of fifty-six pound. In two or three days after, I saw my pocket book and all the contents at Bow-street.

JOHN VICKERY . I am an officer. On Tuesday, the 17th of April, I was at this meeting.

Q. Did you see Mr. Dodd that day - A. I did not. As I was standing there, between two and three o'clock, I saw the two prisoners come out from among the people, and go into Westminster hall, I knew them both; I called to Preston, and desired him to walk to the hall door to watch them. When I came up, I saw the two prisoners very near together, and in the hands of Joel Joseph I saw some paper, it appeared to me to be like bank notes, they were in Joel Joseph 's left hand, and it seemed as if he was counting them; there was no other person near them within a dozen or twenty yards, they had taken a circular walk round the hall, and where they were there was no company. I directed Preston at the door to take hold of Joseph, whom I pointed to, and that I would take hold of Solomon; I put myself inside of the door, and that moment I was seen by Joseph, he turned round and ran away towards the Court of King's Bench; Preston pursued Joseph and secured him, just as he had got up the second or third step leading into the Court of King's Bench; Solomon stood still, I took hold of him; I said, I had no doubt that something wrong had been done, I must search him. Preston had got hold of Joseph, at that moment I saw Joseph attempting to put something in his mouth, which I suspected was the notes, I called out do not let him eat the notes; Preston said, he has nothing in his mouth, and brought him up to me. Joseph refused being searched by Preston, and said, Vickrey shall search me, he has known me a good while, and whatever he finds he will return me. As I was searching Solomon, I perceived something strike me on the toe.

Q.At the time that this struck you on the toe, were there any person near you and Solomon, excepting Preston and Joseph - A. Neither of them were near enough at that time, but there were a number of people collected round. I picked up the book, it opened by falling, and the papers fell on the ground, it was this pocket book with the papers it now contains; I searched Solomon further, in his fob pocket I found four one pound bank notes; in his right hand coat pocket I found a one pound

bank note, with a number of loose papers, and a lottery bill; in his left hand breeches pocket I think there were eight dollars, which were returned to him all except two. I searched Joseph, I found nothing in his pockets; I attempted to take off his neckhandkerchief, he refused, said no man should take that off, I took it off; in his neckcloth was a thirty pound bank note; between his shirt and his neck, a five pound bank note, and in the same place a two pound note. I then took them up to the office in Bow-street. In the pocket book there is a banker's check, payable at sight; Mr. Dodd has sworn to it; and a bill for goods sold and delivered to Mr. Dodd, outside it is endorsed, Mr. Dodd, Eltham, that led me to find Mr. Dodd out; I sent word down by the stage coachman that night.

Q. Was Solomon near enough to you for the book to fall from him - A. We were close together face to face, there was only room for my hand to be in his pocket between him and me.

JOHN PRESTON . I am one of the patrol of Bow-street. On this day, when the electors of Westminster met in Palace yard, between two and three o'clock, Vickrey came to me, I was standing near the hall door, he said, there were two men, noted characters, gone into the hall, he desired me to see in what part of the hall they were, I looked, and saw the two prisoners in company together. I was told by Vickery to walk towards them, they were looking at something, which appeared to me to be bank notes; Joseph had the notes, and when I got within two or three yards of the two prisoners, Joseph looked towards the door and ran, he ran towards the Court of King's Bench steps, I catched him; and Vickery cried out, mind, he is eating the notes; I clapped my hand to his jaw bone, he opened his mouth; he had nothing in his mouth; I said to Vickery, if it is any where it is in his neck. I brought him to Vickery; Joseph delivered to me eight shillings, I asked him if he had no notes, he gave me a one pound note out of his hand. I was ordered by the magistrate to give him the one pound note and the eight shillings. I was going to untie his neck-handkerchief, he resisted, said he would not be searched by me, Vickery should search him, as he had known him: I told him I would indulge him; I kept hold of him while Vickery searched Solomon. On Vickery's searching Solomon, to the best of my recollection he was unbuttoning his waistcoat, I saw a pocket book shop from some part of Solomon's person, and the papers flew about, they were picked up by Vickery. I held Solomon while Vickery searched Joseph; Vickery untied Joseph's neck handkerchief, and there took out some notes between his shirt collar and his neck. I accompanied Vickery to the office with the prisoner's, and Mr. Dodd appeared on the Thursday.

Q. to Mr. Dodd. Look at the pocket-book, is that the pocket book of which you were possessed that day - A. Yes, and here are some memorandums I can swear to, here is an order for payment in my favour, it was in my pocket book when I lost it.

Q.Look at the notes which Vickrey took from Joseph - A. The thirty pound note, I had not taken the number of that note, I traced the number, Mr. Lloyd is her from whom I had it.

MR. LLOYD. Q. Look at that note and say whether you know it - A.On the 11th of April I received thirty pound bank note for a check.

Q. Do you know that thirty pound note was in your possession - A. No, further than the banker's book will tell.

JOSEPH ROBBINS . I am a clerk to Fuller and Co.

Q. Do you know that thirty pound note - A. I paid a check, on the 11th of April, of Eltham and Co.; by the indorsement on the back of the note, I have no doubt I paid it to Mr. Lloyd, I wrote St Bishop, I received it of S Bishop not half an hour before.

Mr. Gurney. You would not have known that you paid it to that gentleman, except from reference to the book - A. No.

Court. Q. to Mr. Lloyd. Did you cash any check at Fuller's house with Robins - A. Yes, I received the amount of a check of Eltham and Co., and among the rest I received a thirty pound note, which I carried to Mr. Dodd the same day. I did not observe whether the note had any writing on it.

Q. to Mr. Dodd. Did you observe at the time that you received the thirty pound note of Mr. Lloyd, whether there was any writing on it - A. No, I know that I had a thirty pound note of Mr. Lloyd; and I know that I had a new five pound note in my pocket book, which I received of Mr. Morris, at the India house, on the 11th of April.

MR. MORRIS. Q. Look at that five pound note, do you recollect paying Mr. Dodd the five pound note - A. On the 11th of April, I paid him this five pound note, I paid him six months interest of two bonds; of one hundred pound each, two pound ten shillings upon each bond, that is five pound; I have the bond in my pocket of the East India company, upon which I wrote the number of the note, the number is 14m808., the date is 3d of April, 1810; I received it at the bank on the 11th of April, it was a new note.

WILLIAM ROSS . Q. Were you present when these men were in custody of Vickrey and Preston - A. I was present at the time Vickrey told Preston to go towards Joseph, he advanced towards Joseph; Solomon was perfectly composed when Vickrey took him in custody. Preston took Joseph and brought him to Vickrey, he was searched, and I saw something taken from his collar, which I supposed to be Bank notes. During the investigation I saw a pocket book fall at the foot of Solomon.

Joseph's Defence. I was coming along the bridge to Westminster I picked this book up, and looking at it I put the notes in my neck for safety, and the next morning I intended to look in the newspapers to see if they were advertised. I meaned to restore them to the owner if they were advertised.

Solomon's Defence. On the 17th of April curiosity led me to go the Westminster Meeting. I had not been in the crowd two minutes, the crowd was so great I ran out for fear of being hurt. I proceeded to Westminster-hall, and I had not been there one minute before somebody catched hold of me Vickrey searched me, and found five pound notes, which was my own property, seven dollars and half a crown, and a cork-screw, and papers that I took coming along. I had no conversation with any one, nor had I any intention of committing a felony whatever. I am quite innocent of this business. I never had the pocket book in my possession; I was before Vickrey, and Preston behind me, I do not know how he could see me drop a pocket book, Mr. Vickrey and I being face to face, if I had dropped it, surely he must have seen the drop it.

JOSEPH, GUILTY , aged 26.

SOLOMON, GUILTY , aged 21.

Transported for Life .

First Middlesex jury, before Mr. Common Serjeant.

View as XML